#D-Crash Dummies Feedback

51 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

halcyon kelp
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I wanted to discuss the new d-crash dummies as they are a really confusing enemy, at least to me.

It seems the dummies are designed in a way that shooting the limbs are important, but it feels extremely inconsistent. For example, using a .308 rifle I can knock the upper body limbs off one-by-one. Removing the head and both arms and it'll still charge at me and deal damage. It takes somewhere around 1-3 more shots to the body, totaling the ammo cost to 4-6 rounds. If I aim all my shots at the torso it takes roughly 18 rounds, which the crab takes nearly the same amount. Where shots do matter is the legs where it takes 2 shots to kill instead. zombies and humans take roughly 1-2 shots, maybe 3, which accounts for body or arm/leg shots.

My problem with them is that it feels like we're supposed to remove the limb to maximize the damage, but the limbs also immediately fall off after dealing enough damage, removing a weakpoint. The fact the legs are considered the "best" weakpoint due to the game logic is even stranger and is generally a harder target to hit.

I don't understand their place in the game compared to most of the enemies. Guard and D-class serve as ranged armed-humans, 610 is a varied class of enemies, zombies are horde enemies, dogs are low-profile hitters with decent health and damage, crabs are typically the tanks, chickens are flanking/hit-and-run enemies, and the plants and 610 skulls are environmental enemies. While the theme of the d-crash dummies is consistent with testing, I find their attributes particularly strange as they serve as "dumber" armed-humans, but with an unbelievably tanky body. I would have expected an enemy as strong as 610s, but with better ranged utility.

Instead of setting my mind there, I would like to hear anyone else's feedback regarding the dummies. Feedback is important as I believe there is something wrong with these enemies and they need to be adjusted, but maybe y'all don't think the same. So I would like to hear it.

empty moss
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Friend is really lucky to get one tapped by them lol

They needed something with ranged DMG that isn't a guard or dboi and fitted the test theme

i would kinda want them to be strapped with bomb and chase you ,you can't kill them ,but you can slow/disable them (something like sentry buster from TF2)

Ofc with timer ,if their legs gets shot off ,they will crawl and self destruct

Forcing you to move away from your cozy location (I found few... That kinda makes arenas ez)

I don't think giving them guns is a good idea ,maybe a handgun at most ,so it wouldnt be so ez to just lit them without cover

The laugh that shows their presence is awesome

halcyon kelp
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The insane laughter as it chases you down with a bomb actually sounds like a good idea. Though it will prove an issue for maps with tight spaces and defense objectives.

silver falcon
silver falcon
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The point is to find those

silver falcon
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That's essentially you missing them

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Crabs also aren't tanks, you're just hitting their shells

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Resonators and chickens have significantly higher health than them

empty moss
silver falcon
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Tactical shooting isn't exclusively about breaching and clearing it's about using tactics, e.g. strategizing

empty moss
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But it's not really fun if you stick to one strategy that will work 100% of time

silver falcon
empty moss
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..not really ... If this was irl and you were improvising ,yeah maybe

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But this is a game

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Finding strategy that works isn't hard ,because you don't die and you have internet

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You need balance

silver falcon
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You can put that in a game

empty moss
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Wait better question .... How many tactical shooters did you play

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Cause if your point is that it's a tactical shooter ,you are suppose to find that 100% working strategy then l want to know what kind of games you played that reinforced your opinion

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Cause there's difference between ,I think that it is supposed to be like it ,and if it works ,it works ,don't change it

halcyon kelp
# silver falcon The legs are a harder target to hit and that's why they are the better weakpoint

The legs being harder to hit does not make it a better weakspot. What makes a good weakspot is proper exposure and feedback. Ie, a visible weakspot on the body that is fairly obvious, but somewhat or far more difficult to hit and rewards large damage in return. The most basic fundamental of a weakspot being the head which, while not always hard to hit, is still more difficult than broadly shooting the torso, and rewards you with 1-2 shot kills instead of somewhere around 5+ to the chest. Broadly speaking that is. An example from another game may be the hunter from the halo series where you can pummel them with explosives or overwhelming fire until you kill them OR you get up close and hit the giant weakspot on their back by dodging and killing with far less ammunition spent, even one-shotting with a well-placed energy sword strike.

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I'm pointing the hunter's weakspot out because why it is a highly concealed weakspot, it is also a massive weakspot when you take the advantage and is highly rewarding for when you get that advantage. The problem with the legs being a weakspot on the D-crash is the fact they are very thin and becomes worse at range. D-crash also have a habit of side-stepping or moving extremely irregular making the movement of the legs far more broad and causes shots to miss more often. They may also randomly stray behind cover unwillingly which covers those legs, but still has their upper body exposed so they can fire. And though it may compare to a resonator dog running away from you and being unable to hit the weakpoint that is its head, the resonator doesn't have a gun. It also doesn't punish you for shooting either its weakspot or its general mass.

halcyon kelp
# silver falcon Resonators and chickens have significantly higher health than them

And on the point of other enemies, resonators take 6 shots from a .308 rifle and chickens take somewhere around 10 shots. The crab takes 20+ rounds. All these shots were done PURELY to the body. If I shoot the general center of the crab, then I am hitting the head, the shell, the legs, and the underbelly, which results roughly in 10 shot kills.

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I'm not saying that the weakpoints kill the crab in only 10 hits, but I am saying that, in general, it will takes roughly 10 rounds when shooting center mass. The crab also flinches the most of any enemy with lanky legs and an armored body making you either miss shots or hit the shell that reduces incoming damage.

halcyon kelp
# silver falcon You're not supposed to ever hit their torso

And finally, while I do understand that shooting the torso is the most undesirable place to shoot d-crash dummies, it's a place you will be shooting quite often anyways. And when you're caught off guard and you're firing at them you don't always have the luxury of taking the split second to carefully place shots at the leg. My point is that they're too tanky for shots to the torso making them a really unfun ranged enemy.

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Also, SCP5K being a tactical shooter does not mean to stick to one and only one strategy. Other types of games like arcade shooters have weapons, abilities, and tactics that are extremely optimal. However, you should never bog yourself down to one strategy in any game for one very simple reason - fun.

If I come into a CQB mission with a shotgun and I absolutely demolish that mission over and over again, chances are that I'm going to get bored even if it works. So I'm going to use other weapons or better yet other strategies. I might even screw around and do melee only if possible. I've done Axiom Hunt over and over, played it countless times, and I've used a lot of different routes and weapons. sometimes I sneak. Sometimes I go loud and go straight through them. Sometimes I only use the 44 magnum or even the 1911. I NEVER stick to one strategy unless I want to get it over and done with.

Completing a mission isn't always about beating it, but how you go about it. If you have fun or not.

silver falcon
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If you get caught off guard you'll shoot the torso

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You need to not get caught off guard or calm yourself down and shoot their legs

silver falcon
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I was saying the point is to find strategies

silver falcon
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You can shoot their legs and underbelly like 3 times and kill them

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You're just refusing to use strategies it sounds like

silver falcon
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What makes a good weak spot is whatever the intended purpose of having a weak spot is

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As you said, the top of them not having easy weak spots makes it much harder to kill them when they're close and you're caught off guard

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Which punishes you for poor positioning

silver falcon
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Again, it seems like you're just refusing to use strategies

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You don't have to do the most optimal thing and most of the time you can't do the most optimal thing

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That's not a reason to remove that thing nor is it a reason to make that thing easier to do

halcyon kelp
# silver falcon That's not a reason to remove that thing nor is it a reason to make that thing e...

My complaint about the d-crash is the insane durability. They explained in the dev video that because they took no cover (and in addition moved so slowly) they were easier to kill so they made them tankier while boosting limb damage. However, I think they either went too far with the torso durability or too little on the limb damage. The leg damage is the oddity here since once it's removed it instantly kills them which I personally think was done so that it’s not walking at you with one leg or no legs.

My problem with shooting the arms and head is that it's supposed to be a meaningful weakspot, but like I said you can remove all those limbs (head and arms) and it’ll still come at you. And I recommended it to be adjusted so that:
a.) it doesn’t soak up more bullets than larger foes and b.) makes the weakspots deal meaningful damage. The devs doing both or just “b” would be fine in my opinion. They’re just a really annoying enemy to fight because of this inconsistency. Especially their weakspots. The game being a tactical shooter does not make it exempt from the rule of weakspots.

I listed the general durability of other strong enemies to put into scale how insanely durable the d-crash is. I’m not saying I aim only at the most durable part of an enemy to kill them in active missions - it’s just an example. Furthermore, the crab is harder to kill due to my previous mentions and neither the chicken or the dog have higher hp, nor do they have armor to further negate damage. Also, my tests involved .308 rifles not the M24 which does 3 shot like you said.

GaijinRuskiHacker said “But it's not really fun if you stick to one strategy that will work 100% of time” and you responded with “The point is to find that strategy.” Regardless of how you meant this, you made it sound like there is only one way to play the game.

You may also want to consider how the average player may feel. Not everyone can operate under pressure nor do they know these enemies as well.

silver falcon
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If you find one strategy that works 100% of the time, that is the end goal

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that doesn't mean it is the only strategy that exists

silver falcon