Chaos insurgency mission?

[nocturne abyss]

I know the chaos insurgency aren't mentioned much/ at all in the original story of SCP 5000, but i think it would be a good idea to add a mission, as they most likely wouldn't collapse, as being the enemies of the foundation is what they've always done. Just an idea.
Edit: The actual insurgency wouldn't have a mission, but could appear. thats my new suggestion.

[real star]

The chaos insurgency isn't really at all interesting and they definitely aren't important on the wiki. Games have just been showing them repeatedly because containment breach did it once.

[hollow forge]

yes but on the other hand, the whole humanity extinction shit the foundation is going for would definitely effect them aswell, if i remember the story right, there was a small section about the Chaos and them dealing with trying to survive the foundation. and i've also heard this awesome music piece called "the fall of the chaos insurgency" which really humanizes the chaos. They aren't just cold blooded PMCs, they had their own mission for protecting humanity, albiet in a bit more fucked up way. Even if we don't get to play as the chaos i would love to see/jhear intercepted radio transmissions and hearing them fighting for survival in the apocalypse that the foundation is creating.

[real star]

There was zero mention of the chaos insurgency in 5000

Also, they aren't cold-blooded PMCs, they are an actual terrorist organization

They would never in a million years attempt to save the world

[hollow forge]

nah i meant fighting for their own skin

and you'd be surprised what åepåæe will do in that kind of situation

[real star]

Either way, there are more unique and interesting groups that could be added aside from the insurgency

[grave wyvern]

Actually Chaos Insurgency was never meant to be a Terrorist organisation, the only thing that started these raids anywhere that have anomalous object (SCP) was because they had low members at the start of they're journey against the foundation, but they're main goal was to betray the foundation and gone rogue, its because the new high ranking members of the Insurgency that they started doing sht in the world, and yeah they introduce this Anomalous world to all humans who want to have a new life inside a new world without knowing it
And to respond to the suggestion, Chaos Insurgency in 5000 wouldn't be a good idea, even tho Insurgency for me is the best faction against the foundation, in my eyes on the game it would only be either an attack on one SCP Site, either 2 them defending against the foundation, like a survival mode where you have wave of SCP Foundation MTF or just like the music, an Anomalous attack on the site, but bit would be lame since the game is an Horror game, not just a simple FPS

[real star]

That's one single interperatation of the chaos insurgency

The most common one on the wiki is that they literally are just a terrorist organization, and that's how they originally started too

[grave wyvern]

With SCP there is a lot of lore different with different SCP in them so Chaos Insurgency started with different things depending on what lore they come from

[real star]

Yeah

I'm saying that's how they started on the wiki

Like overall

That was where the group was first written from

[grave wyvern]

From what i saw the wiki said they were a branch of the Alpha-1 composed by Alpha-1 members and other high rankingd members of the foundation but for X reasons they started to go rogue like and stealed lot of SCP from sites of the Foundation and then they raided a site and thats when the foundation saw that the Insurgency bretrayed them with lot of informations about 05 Plans

[real star]

That is not how they were first written

They were first written as essentially a super secret evil team of bad guys that do bad things for no particular reason

And thats how they are most frequently written

[grave wyvern]

Ah well on the site i go see some Lore, it's written that

[real star]

The Chaos Insurgency hub page was written by one person, and was not written by the person who made the Chaos Insurgency

[grave wyvern]

Oh, is there a page of the creator of insurgency ?

[real star]

?

[grave wyvern]

Like did the guy that created the insurgency made some informations on a site or somwhere ?

[real star]

I don't think there are records of who exactly made the chaos insurgency

[grave wyvern]

Ok ok, so all lore are just created and we just have to use wich lore from wich universe

[real star]

?

[grave wyvern]

Like SCP 5K use a different universe than SCP Containment breach no ?

[real star]

Yeah

[marsh spindle]

Idk if it’s the mission for the CI to destroy the world but if their goal is too, it would make sense that they cooperate with the foundation to help them destroy the world

[grave wyvern]

Well not really, cause the Chaos Insurgency have goals to destroy the foundation and its SCP or just sell the objects, and since the foundation in SCP 5K just want to kill all humans on earth, IC will not join forces cause they are the targets too

[rapid tide]

The Chaos Insurgency's goal is to eliminate the SCP Foundation and all SCPs, and to rescue any remaining Class-D personnel. The Chaos Insurgency is a terrorist group made up of former Foundation members who have defected. They capture and use SCPs for their own purposes.

They would fight the foundation in scp-5000. But only for their own survival/use. It wouldn't make sense.

The GOC and GANZIR fight for humanity. [What the games story is going for so far]

The chaos fight for themselves.

[hollow forge]

right. i don't want to believe they're a full on terrorist group, to the foundation sure, but not to the rest of humanity, they really do act more like PMCs, doing any kind of job to get a quick buck, rather than a full on terror group. In CB they only rescue Ben (Benjamin aka 9341) because he "knew too much" which would be too beneficial for the foundation. but like a lot of people wanna point out, they don't fight for humanity, they fight for themselves and their own twisted goals, which i feel makes them way more a PMC than terrorists.

[real star]

They don't do things for money

They are 100% for sure not a PMC

[hollow forge]

Jeez, learn to not be such a downer

[olive parcel]

I wouldn't be so sure.

The Chaos Insurgency first off is a fractured organisation ( in most canons ) each cell of the Insurgency has their own politics and type of warfare. They may work together but generally they are fractured.

The Chaos Insurgency ( in most canons ) has a hate for the Foundation so it's more than likely that they act as Intelligence Advisors for the Allied GOIs as they have the most experience fighting Foundation.

So yes, They would 100% save the world just to spite the Foundation.

[real star]

The most common type of structure in the CI is that of a typical operational structure, not a fractured structure

I think you may be misinterpreting separate canons as separate groups

The chaos insurgency 99% of the time works entirely off of their own goals, they don't care about what the foundation is doing

[nocturne abyss]

Makes sense. It would just be interesting to see a depiction of them, but totally makes sense. Here's a better idea: Finding them as NPCs during a mission.

[nocturne abyss]

and yes, i agree with this view, they are technically anomalous terrorists. but it would make sense for them to continue raiding the foundation's sites, such as area-12, as that's simply what they've always been doing.

[real star]

It would be far too unsafe for them to continue to do that

[nocturne abyss]

and it wasn't before? but that was just an opinion.

Don't want to cause an arguement here.

[real star]

The Foundation never puts the full brunt of their power against the insurgency

They don't need to

[nocturne abyss]

good point.

I personally believe in 5K, that the foundation did crush the insurgency, but individual members do remain. they may not exactly have the full insurgency, but they're alive. I fully respect your opinion though. Makes full sense, as most of the time, the insurgency is more of an inconvienience to the foundation.

[rapid tide]

It would 100%. Honestly it'd be funny to see them in a mission even in the background of one stealing foundation equipment or scp samples for their own gain.

[sweet gulch]

Maybe they could serve as minor enemies

[real star]

That doesn't really help

Any suggestion that amounts to putting them in the game just a bit would be about the same level of work as putting them in the game front and center

Excluding anything that would just be putting them in as a prop

[sweet gulch]

They would probably re-use AI from the guards if they were added, I don’t think they’d design anything new other than animations and a model.

[real star]

If they are as a prop they don't have to put as much detail into their models, or design them as intensively

[pure nymph]

I think instead of debating it's best left up to the developers, if they think it's a good idea and have a way to work it in they will, if not they won't. Simple as that

[green sluice]

Putting aside that SLATE THUNDER, a major take on them explicitly denies this and they "originally started" as if anything raiders

[green sluice]

Discussed in "Because", actually.

[real star]

Because is not 5000

[green sluice]

Like, CAL, you clearly have a lot of headcanons for your idea of CI but like

I'm not sure any of it is cited

[real star]

It's literally just how the CI was started on the wiki and how they have continued to be

[green sluice]

Citation needed

specific quotes

[real star]

Pointing to slate thunder isn't doing anything

[green sluice]

as in there's no way to sugarcoat but your ideas literally aren't compatible with any of the text of the lore

[real star]

It's a single article

7000 has the CI doing shit for terroristic purposes

[green sluice]

Sure we can go for New Age, even the 43 stuff, magic orientation, any of the Plan articles

[real star]

If you're looking for random articles

[green sluice]

Cool, it's a take where they're throwing stuff at the wall and even that's more attempted ultimatums and raids than terroristic. Next?

[real star]

Dude why are you treating this like a debate

Fuck off

[green sluice]

if we're gonna be like that then your take is insane

and has no basis in any interpretations outside of your skull

to be blunt you're just making shit up

[limber crest]

pretty sure the most accepted canons of CI are either from djkaktus 001, which wouldnt make sense along with 5000, and the "darkness on the face of the deep" origin story

both of which basically state that the only people who know whats really going on in CI are the higher ups, in the case of djkaktus' story, CI are the ones ensuring the Foundation "anomaly" is in check so theyd probably be fighting alongside the afa

in the case of darkness on the face of the deep, they basically follow the will of the "engine"

which basically says "alls going to hell and were gonna embrace it" so its really unclear what the CI would do in 5k in that case

either way they have legitimate reason to become a splinter group, not just "ooh we despise foundation arrhghhh"

either way, i think the pmc title fits them better than the terrorist title bc a main thing about CI is that they dont give any information apart from directives to their personnel

so they have to be being paid smth bc its clearly not for "the cause"

[cinder bridge]

Id really like seeing the CI in 5K as in a like joint operation with the resistance of the UIU GOC and so on. Imo it would just make sense for them to team up since they would be a valuable asset for the other with thier experience in antagonizing the foundation. It would also play into thier interest of, first of all surviving, but also defeating the foundation and capturing scps and stuff. In almost all of thier depictions they have something to gain from a combined raid of a scp site. Also in the scp universe, nothing is really "canon" and its left to interpret for everyone so bending the rules a bit is not entirely out of the question. And just imagine the cool factor of fighting side to side with chaos insurgency ops.

[real star]

That would not happen

The UIU and GOC would not partner with them, and not getting involved would be their best chance of surviving anyways

[broken steppe]

completely right on that, besides, the insurgency would surely make use of another scp and backstab the uiu and goc

more probably a mission with the Chaos would be directly involving yourself on directly taking them down

[limber crest]

the most plausible course for the CI to take is to continue fighting the foundation but not allied with the AFA

it would be nice for the AFA to have run ins with CI squads or compromised ones, but since they are literally extremist nihilists they would definitely wanna screw over the AFA.

[broken steppe]

probably without taking in account the anomalous crap they're involved in, by how shady they are, surely most of them are wanted by the feds, or you, even if you are part of the UIU, you are a branch still of the FBI

so

probably Kill on sight for the CI

[green sluice]

“Because” is right there as a 5k story, CAL has a lot of bad headcanons lol

[real star]

"Because" is not 5000

It is a different author's take on it

One that is clearly not reflected in 5K

[outer stratus]

This Cal&Stuff guy really hates fun huh

[real star]

The CI is one of the most boring GOIs that exists

They are still stuck in series 1 in a lot of ways

[outer stratus]

Right, boring according to you? Why do you hate the idea of someone wanting to see a group that A, has a place in the universe, and B, would fit into this considering the foundation is the big baddie and that has been one of their biggest beliefs since at least as far back as I can remember? In the words of one of the dudes in the thread before me, you need to learn to not be such a downer dude.

I mean lord forbid a game based in a universe includes things in that universe 🤦‍♂️

[real star]

Am I not allowed to have an opinion on the Chaos Insurgency?

[outer stratus]

You have been fighting tooth and nail trying to make sure everyone thinks chaos dosn't have a place in 5k and have been called out for being a downer before this. You obv can have an opinion but you seem to have a sort of vendetta

Chaos, no matter how bland or exciting you might think it is, would fit in well with how it's going down in the 5k universe

And you're kinda refusing to acknowledge that

Atleast from what I have seen

[real star]

The primary reasons I don't want to see the CI in the game are:

1. The CI are boring
2. They are the only GOI that have ever been put in a game other than 5K
3. It's not in character for the CI to try to fight the Foundation for no real reason, and even less in character for them to join forces with any government

[real star]

They fit in as a concept since they are a part of the universe, they don't fit into the story of the actual playable game

Unless we have a mission that is completely narratively disconnected from Area-12, it's going to be difficult to fit the CI into any playable section

In DLCs they could be added, I still don't like them for the reasons above, but there would be nothing actually blocking them from being added in DLC missions

[outer stratus]

1. Boring isn't a complete reason not to add something. i mean how many times have we heard of 173 and the flesh that hates? They're still in the game. It's also at the very least a 3 to 1 on them being boring so...
2. A bunch of the other GOIs are magic death/suicide whatever squads that are iffy beyond hell and have no real place aside from things like MTF or maybe GOC
3. Never said they were going to ally, and it is in character for them to try and fuck over the foundation, or atleast what's left of it, and/or capture/exterminate the anomlies we are dealing with. And since the foundation is the big baddie in this game, they can have their "We told you so." moment.

Only someone with a less than creative mind is unable to think of a way to tie them into the main story right now, especially if you consider them "boring."

[real star]

1. 173 originates from Ascension, if development started now, chances are it would never be added, also, 610 is not in any other game
2. That's just completely not true at all
3. Almost every single suggestion for CI has been for them to ally. The Foundation is not weak in this universe, they are significantly stronger than the CI, indicated by the fact that they literally killed everyone except Pietro, the CI would be destroyed if they tried to mess with the Foundation in this universe.

Adding on to 2. One of the SCP articles that was written for this game, UIU 1972-055 has an entire list of GOIs that could fit very well into the game

[outer stratus]

Well 2 is fair, any video I have ever seen on any notable GOI is some ultra elite death squad, involved with magic, or just a suicide squad. I don't know much about GOI's aside from what I have been spoon fed from YT recommendations. The amount of times 173 has been mentioned, made videos on, and just is known puts it over on the boring side quite a bit. Same with the flesh that hates, many videos, many things made on it, you get the idea. Never said they were weak, I said they like to try and fuck the foundation over. And I don't know about you, but the foundation guards at least seem like insane pushovers so far, even losing fights and letting D-boys take over often.

And we're messing with the foundation, we're likely gonna get crushed as well, why not have CI? The only real reason I've seen so far is "Uuugggghhhhh it's sooo boriinngggg and I don't liikeee iittttttt ;( ;("

[real star]

The guards are not supposed to be pushovers, they just have the same AI as the D-Class for now

If you report a dead guard, your TOC will tell you that they are well trained and don't go down easy

[real star]

The UIU, funded by the GOC, operating on what once was Federal land while being helped by forces within Area-12 are at much more of an advantage than the insurgency

Within the story of the game, by the way, the foundation has not started publicly killing anyone yet, and since the CI isn't a member of Faultline, there would need to be an explanation for how they would know about anything happening to the Foundation in the first place

[outer stratus]

Yeah the insurgency definitely has spies in the foundation, they know something is going down, it may not be exactly what but no way they don’t know at all. CI also has forces in the foundation itself, being spies and all, so it’s still more than a possibility

It’s all essentially boiling down to you don’t like it so it shouldn’t be added because you don’t like it

[real star]

The Foundation would've killed or cured the spies before anything could get out

[outer stratus]

And they wouldn't have killed or cured the spies and forces withing area-12 and the foundation? Alright makes sense 100%

[runic frost]

610 is present in Fragmented Minds and SCP: Valravn.

[real star]

Valravn isn't out and 610 is not present in fragmented minds

[runic frost]

Not in Chapter 1.

[real star]

Faultline was communicating directly with the 05 council, and had official liaisons within the Foundation that went silent, which is what set them off

Spies are expected to go silent

[outer stratus]

And CI spies being silenced isn't gonna set anything off? Everything's gonna be happy go luck? Yeah no way pal

Like I said, the only sensical thing beyond "Well I don't want them in so they shouldn't be in" you've said against CI is the fact that there are othet GOI's that could be added instead

[fading stone]

crazy to call someone a downer if theyre right

[fading stone]

i dont believe thered be much more to add, you have a group that thrives off of hating the foundation and constantly going against its mission thats shoved into a world where the foundations out to kill everyone

theres nothing much theyd do other than survive, which thatd just be the enemy spawn wave map but glorified

as he said there's far superior gois that can be looked at because they have much more substance

the only thing ci could offer is combat

[covert spear]

He's not right because he's just using his own headcanon as to what he believes the Chaos Insurgency is.

Yes, there are better and more interesting GOIs to add rather than CI. I personally would go for Valravn Corp or something else. But that doesn't negate the fact that CI is popular and would make sense in the game.

Other than that, all CAL&Stuff's argument has been is saying "Nuh uh" because he personally doesn't like them

[outer stratus]

Yeah, YOU don’t believe there would be anything good to add because you have no imagination apparently. A group that hates the foundation and their goals? Tossed into a world where the foundation wants to kill everyone? Thats insane potential for things like an unlikely hero arc, or even just growth of the org in the 5k universe in general

And much more

[outer stratus]

One of the only dudes so far to be able to look past what they personally want for the game and universe. Thank you

[fading stone]

"...YOU don't believe there would be anything good to add because you have bo imagination apparently."

keyword i said i believe it wouldnt work, i posted it here for discussion with people who think otherwise

stop acting out like some passive aggressive toddler

youre embarrassing yourself

[fading stone]

agreed hes not a very open book, guys mind is sealed with concrete and rebar

[cinder bridge]

The CI would 100% know what would be going on in Foundation to some level at least. The foundation wouldnt just immidiately know who the spies are and kill them, theyd have to find EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM and from most canons, games, articles it says that the CI has spies deeply imbedded in the foundation. In the 5K article it also says that the foundation took almost immidiate action to wipe out humanity after discovering the anomaly in the human subconsious, so they wouldnt have much time to go after any spies.

[fading stone]

yeah their concern isnt counterintelligence, its just outright killing everyone

granted theyd probably be found since the cure gets disseminated to everyone otherwise they get killed, but that can be tossed out because during the entire 5000 lore many foundation actions were reckless which impeded their ability to get their whole

"kill humanity" goal done asap

[cinder bridge]

You would also have to take rouge foundation members into consideration, for they would know about most GOIs and snitch to keep humanity alive

[fading stone]

100%

that and as shown in the actual lore article thingy

[cinder bridge]

Trueee

[fading stone]

some foundation members were mistakenly not given the cure, and some weren't properly assassinated

the entire lore is basically the moment the foundation wanted to do something so bad and quickly

that they made an insane amount of mistakes in the process that hurt them in the long run

[cinder bridge]

Also imagine the CI bringing thier anomalous toys to the fight, that would be dope

And SCPs like 105 or 049 would certainly rebell against the foundation. Maybe theyd breach containment and escape to other GOIs

[outer stratus]

Idk man you stepped in and started talking chill out with the insults bud.

[outer stratus]

Exactly. All of the possibilities and probabilities

[cinder bridge]

WAIIIIIIIT A SECOND!!!! anomaly in the human subconsious?! THE PESTILENCEEEE!!!!!!!

[outer stratus]

It’s insane how much potential just the CI alone has to be included

[outer stratus]

Genuinely would be insanely cool if that’s the pestilence the plague doctor is talking about

[fading stone]

"... because you have no imagination apparently."

grow up

[fading stone]

thatd be interesting

or at least using all of them at their expense to provide ad best of a defense as possible against foundation raids

[outer stratus]

If you are completely inable to imagine any semblance of a version of reality that has an interesting twist on the CI, especially in the world of 5k, that would be a pretty accurate description of what you're portraying.

[fading stone]

maybe step outside a bit and rethink about how badly you wanna argue

[outer stratus]

There's been lord knows how many examples of how CI can be included in some kind of exciting or makes sense kind of way. If you wanna talk about how bad people wanna argue, scroll up and look at Cal&stuff fighting as hard as he possibly can to try and make us think CI is completely useless. Maybe you need to grow up a little if you wanna resort to insults after being proved wrong multiple times.

[fading stone]

kiddo if you wanna exist solely to lob arguments for the sake of extruding dominance, my dms are open

no one wants to see your little hissy fit

this is a ci suggestion thread, not your vent session

[outer stratus]

And that's what I have been talking about. Now you're trying to turn this into some sort of who can puff their chest up more battle and it's not gonna happen. I don't know if this is some poor rage bait or what, but you might need to hit the brakes just a tad.

[fading stone]

dude go to my dms or dont talk lol

[outer stratus]

See this is what I mean 😭

Talk about CI please

[real star]

The game isn't set in the original 5000 article

[real star]

Many, many groups have their own anomalies

That's kinda the point of GOIs

[real star]

My arguments have been that I personally don't like them + they are the only group to have ever been put in another game + they would not fit into the base game storyline + they are essentially stuck in series 1

If there is a choice between adding nothing and adding the CI, I would choose the CI, in the actual situation presented I would want literally any other group added

Reminder that you are on the suggestions forum, I'm not trying to make absolute statements about the CI for the most part, I'm advocating against adding them in favor of other groups

[outer stratus]

So what we have already established then. Your opinion + there are objectively better GOIs to add. I’m saying it would fit very nice just in of itself. Foundation wants everyone dead, CI gets their big told you so moment and could be on another enemy/unlikely ally or hero, not to say they’re gonna be sunshine and rainbow good guys. The amount of potential for the CI in this specific situation is absolutely bonkers. Other GOIs would be cool yeah, but they would likely just be doing what they usually do. Like CI is EX FOUNDATION imagine the possibilities on them seeing the thing they were a part of and are now actively against turning into what it is now. Boohoo it’s already in another game, games like call of duty, halo, etc (not including the dumpster fire that is their new games) have the same characters in multiple, same game modes, same whatever and they still made bank when their devs weren’t blood sucking slobs.

And were critically acclaimed etc etc

You just aren’t able to see the possibility that the CI could shift and change into something exciting or intriguing for you. Especially in the universe it would be set in

[pure nymph]

Argument after argument, it's a game, its a suggestion, if the devs want to use it they will. People have different opinions. No point in continuously arguing about it, take it elsewhere if you wanna keep it going, otherwise it's better etiquette to say what you wanna say and leave it at that.

[outer stratus]

Yeah no? This is meant for discussion and that’s what we’re doing. Mostly. The rage baiting whatever whatever coffee guy was tweaking but otherwise it’s been (a heated) discussion. “Guys it’s not that serious” never solved anything either

[pure nymph]

Yeah but this is like the 4th Chaos insurgency debate we've had

Its the same everytime pretty much, dunno what else to say about it, discussions are discussions sure. But when its the same thing each time, whats the point of discussing it

Obviously I could just ignore it, but it is what it is

My stance is it could be neat to see the developers take on the chaos insurgency, but likely in a DLC mission and not the main campaign

[outer stratus]

And that’s what you could’ve started out with. This being the 4th discussion also tells the devs that this might be worth looking into or ignoring as it’s a commonly requested/discussed thing. And, yknow, the game is made for players and all believe it or not.

[pure nymph]

Well aware it's made for the players, been here a while. Also why I've said that if the devs want to add it they will, if not oh well.

[outer stratus]

And these are windows into whether or not they should or how they will be recieved

[fading stone]

dude

its like you have a psychiatric condition

learn to stop, no one cares about your puny arguments just stop

💀

[outer stratus]

See what I mean?

[covert spear]

You literally just proved my point with this. Everything you just said could be dumbed down to essentially "Nuh uh" because YOU aren't able to imagine a scenario in which they work

I agree in that i would rather have different and more creative GOIs. But your argument is kinda stupid.

[real star]

Dude, that's not at all what I'm saying

[real star]

I agree in that (your argument). But your argument is stupid.

[covert spear]

I was referring to the rest of the argument you made. I probably should've made that more apparent

Don't get me wrong, I really don't have a problem with you not wanting the Chaos Insurgency. I dont have much of a problem with your reasons why, even though I may think some of your reasons are stupid.

I have a problem with your attitude. In some of these messages you come off as a pompous douche who cant accept that people have varying opinions.

[real star]

• The CI wouldn't get a "told ya so" moment, the Foundation is getting proven wrong, that doesn't mean that they are getting proven right
• Multiple other GOIs are EX-Foundation or have EX-Foundation members
• The difference is that this game was not made by the developers of any of those other games, and is not set in the same storyline as them, that's a really stupid comparison

[real star]

My opinion is against the opinions of the people I'm talking to, if we want to actually discuss opinions, that has to be something that I'm allowed to express

[covert spear]

Like i said, I don't have a problem with that. But you're kinda being an ass about it

Granted, so are some of the others but my point still stands

[outer stratus]

Yes, the CI would. The CI is literally a group broken away from the foundation because they don’t agree with their goals and methods. The organization they vilified and planned against turning big bad evil and trying to kill everyone? Thats the very definition of a “told you so” moment. Yeah, other GOIs have ex foundation members, but CI is a literally broke off part derived from the foundation.

[real star]

All of the other groups that we are in the perspective of do not like the Foundation

It's as much of a "told ya so" moment for them as it is for the CI

It would only be proving the CI right if their very specific ideology was proven right

[outer stratus]

Yeah sure if we ignore the fact that CI raids foundation bases to rescue D-class and kill their captors and experimenters since their ideology or born from hate and disdain for the foundation, sure they’ll just be like any other goi not liking the foundation. If you consider what the CI actually is though, that’s a whole different story

A raid or security breach by any other GOI is either to capture/kill or both

It’s not like the entire existence of the CI is to be against the foundation or anything. Not like the foundation going bad and killing everyone is gonna have any effect on or for the CI

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cinder bridge]

Womp Womp

[real star]

The CI are also captors and experimenters. Also, the saving D-Class thing came from SCP roleplay servers on GMod, as far as I know there are no articles on the wiki that show that happening.

[real star]

It's actually not like that

The CI have their own goals

The primary goal of them (when one is shown, which is not that frequently) is to bring down the veil

In that case, they would have achieved their goal here

The actual interesting parts of the CI are the engineer and the engine, not their backstory, which doesn't lend too much other than "they came from the foundation," which is something you can pretty easily fit into a story with most GOIs

[outer stratus]

Yeah no save might not be the right word, but a quick search will tell you they are taken from their captivity and either recruited or killed after interrogation, so that’s just another cherry picking incident from you. The CI’s goals are unknown, yet another cherry picking/head cannon I said so moment. The engineer and engine stuff could be included as well, just one of the many possibilities that you for some reason would rather skin yourself alive than see in game

[real star]

That is not something that has ever been written in an article on the wiki

I'm not cherry picking, you're making things up

There aren't many indications on the wiki of how the CI deals with D-Class, but the few things that do explain what they would do, show that the CI would either kill the D-Class, capture them as test subjects, or capture them to be sent to another group for money

E.g. they treat D-Class in the same way that the foundation treats D-Class

[outer stratus]

There are literally a number of links you can click on that say the same exact thing

[real star]

"A number of links you can click on that say the same thing"

Where exactly?

[outer stratus]

I'm not going to spoon feed you, you have the means to search it up and see yourself

[limber crest]

well i mean if youre gonna state something, atleast prove the facts with sources

searches that i get say that this is only a gameplay thing, for balance and factions for better gameplay

in the case of SL

CB technically isnt a solid canon hill to die on because 1. theres multiple endings and 2. the most likely one (recapture) stated d9341 would be classified as an scp due to the save file thing, and theres no scp named after him yet

so in most cases in SCP lore, CI dont rescue Class D

i 100% agree with cal about not having it in game, it would be redundant to the class D faction we already have except more geared???

and if we go by the engine canon, that means CI is entirely an anomaly in itself, and im sure that they wouldnt ally with AFA/even if they tried the AFA would not like em very much

as such, i do agree with CAL because I also cannot see a scenario where CI would fit in the game lore wise or gameplay wise...

im reallt surprised how heated a convo about CI being in game or not got gng

[outer stratus]

There is a pattern of everyone disagreeing and being against having them in the game being completely incapable of thinking beyond what the wiki tells them. This is a good environment for them for reasons I have stated earlier, and this is a huge chance for them to shift snd change in their own 5k universe way. You can’t imagine a way they fit in because you don’t want to imagine them fitting in.

[real star]

I can imagine ways that they would fit in but it would require changing so much when other groups are already more interesting and would already fit in

The game changes the UIU by making them naturally progress to being strong enough to hold their own against the Foundation, none of the changes to the CI that I can think of, or that you have suggested would be natural progressions of what they are, it's just entirely changing what the group is

[runic frost]

The only morally "good" versions of the CI I can remember are in part 4 of the Ouroboros Cycle and the unexplored interpretation mentioned in 6002 helping the GOC alongside other GOIs to raid Foundation sites.

Reference:
https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/djkaktus-s-proposal-iii
https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-6002

[pearl monolith]

There's also CN-2000
http://scp-int.wikidot.com/scp-cn-2000

[outer stratus]

What the group is is hating the foundation and being just entirely against them. This works in their favor when they start trying to KILL EVERYONE which can set the stage for a multitude of things. You guys are being deliberately biased against them and unwilling to see the large good it can be, and instead just go “meh” because creativity has been sapped from you some way or another

[real star]

The CI is only against the Foundation because they protect the veil

At least the lower level agents are told that

In terms of an actual goal or any sort of actual hatred for the Foundation beyond that, there is none

The Foundation trying to kill everyone can set the stage for a multitude of more interesting groups

[outer stratus]

Yeah I guess so, if we ignore the philosophical disagreements, them not liking the way they do things, them thinking they’re a detriment to the world and all, yeah that would make sense

[real star]

If we ignore the (things caused by what I just said), that would make sense

[outer stratus]

Including the CI. I’m not saying other groups are unwelcome that would be cool, I’m saying CI does 100% have a place in the 5k universe

[real star]

I've said it has a place in the universe multiple times

Just not in the story of the game itself

They could be added in a DLC

[outer stratus]

🤦‍♂️ The way they do things does not solely include them hiding SCPs from the public

[real star]

Protecting the veil is one of the primary goals of the foundation

[real star]

Although I would prefer other groups still

[outer stratus]

One of the many things they don’t like about the foundation

[real star]

Can you tell me exactly what else they have disliked about the Foundation and where you're getting this from?

If it's not on the wiki you are quite literally just making things up

[outer stratus]

https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/chaos-insurgency-hub

The CI is not hating on the foundation for the sole reason they’re hiding anomalies from the public

I mean even the people that originally founded it were doing “unethical” and such things for the top brass of the foundation

[real star]

Google AI summary isn't the SCP wiki

[outer stratus]

It’s summarizes everything included so I thought might as well include it

[outer stratus]

Yeah, never said that wasn’t a goal. Going off of what the lower privates and expendables isn’t all that solid either. Like I said, from the group that founded the chaos to how it is now the chaos insurgency has more reason to hate the foundation than them doing something they don’t like and could quite easily just start exposing.

[real star]

Which includes things that are not the wiki

[real star]

Beyond what the lower level agents are told, nothing else is ever said about the goals of the CI

It's a meta-secret as well as an in-universe secret

That is to say, they have no goals

[outer stratus]

Well they definitely aren't just killing foundation members and capturing SCPs for the goofs I'd say

definitely have some agenda beyond exposing the foundation and removing the veil even if it is unknown

[limber crest]

i cannot imagine them fitting in because fundamentally, due to canons, there is no chance they can change in a way they can fit into the story.
it is true that i have a bias towards them due to their horribly unknown goals and generally "no foundation" attitude for no reason, but i have chosen to only use facts to state why i cannot see them in the game. however, i find it personally offensive that you are insinuating that im too dense to change my mind peovided sufficient evidence, or that somehow we are uncreative just because we want to remain faithful to the wiki and make gois within 5k make sense and have motives.
as izeec has now stated, there is a few instances of CI allying with GOC, so perhaps an alliance isnt out of the question.

you are 100% correct about most of us only using what the wiki tells us because a lot of us are hardcore die for scp fans who would love this game to be faithful to the wiki. that does make some of us a little narrow minded, but that does not in any way mean we lack creativity. in any case, none of the canons ive found indicate any reason they would ally with the afa or the foundation instead of being rheir own standalone power

if you are willing to provide me even just a "what if" scenario of how CI would fit into 5k, it might help change my perspective

[fading stone]

thats the thing

mr hot shot there is not changing his perspective nor will he open up to divulging new pieces of information that strengthen his points or counters that he could consider, he doesnt care

nearly everything he says has a remark that serves as an insult to insinuate anyone disagreeing is purely dense

theres 0 point in arguing with a person who thinks hes right and only him, and those around him cant fathom the reality he lives in so he has to resort to flashing it in everyones faces with insults

[fading stone]

also, he hasnt beyond "the ci can be against the foundation using a hero arc" then leaving it at that

[outer stratus]

Glad to see someone not just here to try and thrash the CI for being what it is. I did give a few examples, but where my mind is at I have been thinking something along the lines of they're "rescuing" civilians from the foundation/what the foundation might have released etc etc. They can brand themselves as some kind of "resistance force" or something a little let bland than that to appear as the good guy, which can lead to the CI getting a big amount of recruits fighting for the "cause" or something along those lines. That, or we can get a campaign or two involving the CI as they attempt to try and screw over the foundation with what's going on at the moment. Raiding one of their sites, intercepting an SCP that's being transported into a high population civi area to wreak havoc and kill, etc. Just a few examples of the many many possibilities.

[outer stratus]

I'll be honest you where the one that went completely off track and started insulting me and just blabbing about nothing related to CI, then clown reacted when I asked to talk about CI rather than you telling me to "Go to dms."

[outer stratus]

I never said "hero arc" and left it at that, I said "MAYBE then can get an unlikely hero arc or something like that" as an example.

[outer stratus]

Obviously not thee most concrete thing ever but I feel those might be a good base for something to evolve and/or grow from

[fading stone]

nope

was discussing with nes on ci stuff

till you jumped in and pulled your funnies

clown reaction was to acknowledge what you said but also tell you im not gonna respond further because it wasnt worth my time

[outer stratus]

Funnies? My friend if you think being called uncreative is an insult I'm not sure what I should be saying around you not to offend you

[outer stratus]

And it's worth your time now?

Not sure what I did to become top priority for you right now but I appreciate the praise

[fading stone]

needs more spice, consider cells in ci are not equal - same ultimate objective disseminated from higher, methods to get there might differ which can also wildly change what ci does, that and the problem of ci writing itself in a very vague but strict manner that makes deviation or interpretation of them difficult

[fading stone]

its not that i get offensive from it, its that im there to have a discussion where you say a and i say b - following it up with something meant to purely establish yourself over another person only makes a disagreer, like me, want to stop engagement with you

[fading stone]

yes humans can change priorities and come back to other things later if not completed

[outer stratus]

You just laid out why exactly the devs can make it work. Room to work with, they can interpret it their own way, their objectives can change, the whole 9 yards. Like I said, it's not completely concrete and I don't have the time to write a thousand word .txt file on a full story line

[outer stratus]

You kinda told me to go to dm's or don't talk when I A, was talking about CI and B, after I called you uncreative and you started telling me to grow up. If you didn't wanna engage with me, you simply would not have. Also, I am not sure what kind of dominance could be asserted with calling someone uncreative that 's definitely a straw man right there.

[outer stratus]

That's some full proof logic man got me there

[fading stone]

i scrolled up, youre the only person who you've described regarding insults. the only consistent thing youve done is make mention of peoples lack of sound mind which prevents them from thinking about any good ci conceps. the most ive done is tell you to grow up and if you want to act like that, take it in my dms because that pettiness doesnt belong here

[fading stone]

you can just write a general summary on the matter and expand on it at a later time, thats typically how lore of any kind start

[outer stratus]

Right... call me a toddler, tell me to go to dms or don't talk, I ask you to please talk about CI to which you clown react

You seem to have the morale high ground on this one 100% man props

[outer stratus]

Yeah that's true, but I doubt he want's to read and pick through an essay. Seemed better to just give a brief pass over of ideas

[fading stone]

no i said you acted like a toddler; told you to go into dms or not to talk because against the only thing youve done is throw doodoo at people at nearly every refute, and i already told you i gave you a clown reaction because i opted to disengage

most notably after i had a conversation about ci with the nes guy, so dont know what youre talking about there

[fading stone]

essay can be broken down afterwards

into simpler summaries

[outer stratus]

You're very right clown reacting someone and calling them a toddler is usually done in good intent and not meant in any kind of malicious way. So true man 🫡

[outer stratus]

He asked for a "What if" and I gave him a what if. Would be cool to write a full story on it but I don't get paid to and I doubt the devs are out looking for more writers

[fading stone]

"...acted like a toddler"
"... acknowledge what you said but also tell you im not gonna respond further because it wasnt worth my time" - "...after i had a conversation about ci..."

you can keep saying things in a loop and instead of acknowledging what im directly telling and referencing to you, mind you im not gonna respond if thats all youll do

[fading stone]

simple summaries are all thats needed from it

you dont have to write a movie about it

just expand on an idea

[outer stratus]

"kiddo if you wanna exist solely to lob arguments for the sake of extruding dominance, my dms are open
no one wants to see your little hissy fit
this is a ci suggestion thread, not your vent session"

Rrriiiggghhhtttt...

[outer stratus]

Honestly might. Modding ever becomes a thing might be cool

[fading stone]

yes, all derivatives of "youre acting out my dms are open"

[fading stone]

yes, but base game would be cooler

[outer stratus]

"Acting out" and explaining how, in fact, the CI could be included in some way shape and/or form are two different things

[fading stone]

ill take a longer journey to a good base game addition instead of modding variations of content that could be added

[outer stratus]

God yeah and all the servers that are gonna make you download 10 extra gbs of stuffing

[fading stone]

i already had that conversation with nes, and yes you were acting out upon questioning peoples sound of mind

[fading stone]

hopefully it doesnt take a poopy route

[outer stratus]

Sound of mind and creativity are seperate things. You and maybe cal can't remember seem to remember and maybe one other dude out of however many are in this thread are the only ones that seem to think I was hurling insults or somethin akin to that

Come to my dms isn't a term ever associated with good will in this context which should be quite obvious

[outer stratus]

Knowing how modding is in any good game does not give high hopes 😭

[fading stone]

well i had no bad intent with it so

[fading stone]

we just gotta wait and see

i only want 3 things anyway, which i know will take time and thats ok with me so long as quality and heart is poured into it:

• more unique underrated yet lethal scps, or a very realistically deadly interpretation of a common scp
• another supporting storyline map
• addition of a mobile task force, preferably a containment orientated team, a specialty combat team (e.g. Epsilon-9), or an anomalous team

like with the current 173 in the game, i appreciate how its highly deadly and not some jackoff petty nerfed shit in other games

im limiting myself there, this is going off topic from the "lets add chaos insurgency" post

[limber crest]

that would actually make a ton of sense considering that they tell their lower ranking members that they hate the foundation for their usage of anomalies, and considering what we see so far wity the weaponization of SCPs it would help their ideology
but bear in mind that thats only what they tel the low ranks, and their ulterior motive is some other stuff
petsonally im just gonna go with the chaos engine canon, and since theyre basically extremist nihilists, the chaos stuff is already being done by the release of anomalies, as such they have no reason to fight
and i genuinely have not read any canon for CI apart fron that and the ouroboros cycle canon, which would conflict with the 5k canon

[limber crest]

"slide into my dms" ahh

[fading stone]

the main problem with CI canons is that they commonly dont align, and you can easily chuck it under the rug by saying "each cell has their ultimate goal, but their methods differ"

but thats with a Foundation doing Foundation things

interpreting what is an organization that doesn't know what it wants to do except do the exact opposite of the Foundation at its basic simplified core, and writing it into a situation where their enemy is now doing their mission but worse

is challenging

what is clear is the "good" Foundation and "bad" Insurgency is a thing

and if the Foundation became "bad", the Insurgency would not switch to "good"

so it comes down to finding out what things would a permanently bad guy do if the good guy became worse guy, if that makes sense

[limber crest]

would like to disagree

theres no good or bad in any case

just different interests

[fading stone]

yes, i added quotation marks to emphasize the questionable nature of good and bad, the entire scheme of GOIs is always shrouded in gray areas

[limber crest]

the foundation remains "good" in their own eyes even if they are trying to extwrminate humanity

[limber crest]

however, depending on the ulterior goal of CI there is a possibility they switch to the "good" side

honestly atp it depends on how affrays going to incorporate it if they do

and which canons they decide to keep

[fading stone]

yes yes

[green sluice]

Just gonna note that actually reading material is a good first step to having an opinion on goi

Like Ouroboros and slate thunder are right there, slate thunder is very short

[green sluice]

“Because” is a 5k story that had exactly this

The CI showed up to a meeting because the foundation is killing everyone and al fine promised some sort of plan

Like, while Ci is very open to reimagining they have consistently wanted the foundation gone, normalcy gone, and some form of anomalous usage with them directing it (with the good intentions or lack therof very open to debate)

And like

“Scp kills everyone after throwing away normalcy themselves ” is something that hits on every single issue they have

This is like asking what the ira would do if the British empire decided to kill everyone

(Slate thunder literally uses a lot of ira coding for em lol)

[real star]

"Because" is not 5000

And it's for sure not what this game is based on

[green sluice]

Because is set in 5k, thanks for playing

give a citation for any claims you want to make please

you are not a remotely reputable source

[real star]

It is explicitly a different telling of 5000

[green sluice]

Or to be even more blunt, you just kinda make shit up

[green sluice]

And?

[real star]

It's explicitly not set in the original 5000 article

Also, it's not even one of the linked articles on 5000

Those articles are questionably canon to this game, Because is definitely not canon to this game

[green sluice]

"definitely"

[limber crest]

as i have stated ouroboros would not fit in scp 5k due to the canons clashing, slate thunder would actually make a bit more sense( i completely forgot that one existed)

[green sluice]

Curious why you feel it'd clash actually

SLATE THUNDER has the benefit of being a definitionally unreliable narrator (SCP briefing) meaning some of it is inherently going to be a lie or skewed

as well as intentionally leaving out a lot

[limber crest]

the big bad of ouroboros is the "concept of foundation" and also puts the chaos insurgency in the light as the good guys, simply does not align with scp 5000

even if it didnt clash i highly doubt affray would use it as canon, as theres much more anomalous stuff in that when 5k is more of a tactical shooter

[green sluice]

I mean. The Foundation being not the good guys kinda aligns very neatly with 5000 lol

[limber crest]

as for because, even if it was canon it dont mean a whole lot

[green sluice]

and a complete meltdown of the anomalous world can easily handwave areas being more "tactical"- you know the saying about WW4 with sticks and stones?

[limber crest]

cuz they dont end up delivering it anyways in because, we can just assume they failed

[green sluice]

Well yeah that's kinda what Ouroboros ends on

[limber crest]

i meant because

as for ouroboros, lemme give it a reread and ill get back to you

[green sluice]

Because is a few snapshots of a 5k world

[limber crest]

yeah but even in terms of that the chaos insurgency literally just pissed everyone off and laughed

very in character lmao

[green sluice]

Well yeah lol

TBH you want a what-if scenario for CI?

"Strange bedfellows"/teeth clenched reluctant teamwork.

CI is a group that historically has issues with a lot of the big players but it's in the name- an Insurgency. In other words, a guerilla group. Tunnel visioned on bringing down the organization that has now gone full genocidal human extinction.

5K is a situation where there isn't a choice for everyone not the Foundation- they either get their shit together or they're all dead and CI isn't accused often of being stupid or slow on the uptake.

Now how well that ends up happening is another story, but it's great set up for "better the devil you know?" or paranoid suspense in the face of extinction.

I imagine a lot of CI trying to be clever/ applying their expertise to sabotage and raid- very much a "perspective flip" from the usual stories. The Insurgency being stretched thin raiding a murderous Foundation with their bags of tricks and trained fighters, intentionally or unintentionally "dying in the light". (And a lot of "WE TOLD YOU SO" that may or may not be warranted)

[real star]

Functionally, how would this fit into the existing story of the game?

[green sluice]

I mean saboteurs, guerillas, and infiltrators seem fairly self explanatory in terms of how they could easily slot into a lot of plot threads

[real star]

No

The current game is set to follow the UIU going through Area-12, and reporting intel to other groups in Faultline to utilize

The CI would not join Faultline, considering:

[green sluice]

"would not"

[runic frost]

CI joining Faultline heavy depends on which interpretation will be used.

[real star]

In what interpretation would they agree to the above?

[runic frost]

The only ones I know are Ouroboros Cycle Part 4 and the unexplored one in 6002.

[green sluice]

STRIKEFALL is a fairly recent interpretation that touches on their internal politics

That said "restore and maintain the integrity of the Veiled world." is kinda a bit moot

[real star]

Faultline was made in the 1980s

So, when they actually would have had the chance to join, it wouldn't be moot

Nor would it be during the actual story of the game

Considering the Foundation is still preparing to go public

[cinder bridge]

Bro can not stop hating on the Chaos Insurgency😭 🙏

[real star]

because they're fucking boring

every other GOI is more interesting to me

[cinder bridge]

thats like saying the city shouldnt build a mcdonalds in a new empty resteraunt because you dont like mcdonalds. Almost everyone else want mcdonalds, but youre like: "no I dont want a mcdonalds there and ill die on that ground!"

goofy ahh, let us have our mcdonalds, it doesnt do you harm

[real star]

Bro

A piece of writing is not analogous to a fucking mcdonalds

And not everyone wants the CI in the game

This would be something added to the game that would be unavoidable in an actual playthrough

[cinder bridge]

does it harm you?

[real star]

I do not like it

[cinder bridge]

That aint a good argument bud

very subjective

[real star]

Quick question: do games have to physically harm you to be bad?

[cinder bridge]

not literrally

stoobid

[real star]

It's a game, everything is subjective

Anyone can like anything about it

This is a suggestions post

[cinder bridge]

Yes, thats the point

[real star]

I'm not in a debate

[real star]

Anyone can dislike anything about it

I am doing a suggestion

[cinder bridge]

yet youre fighting for your life in this thread

[real star]

Dude

[cinder bridge]

Deggestion rather

[real star]

No, it's a suggestion either way

To suggest something doesn't mean to add something

It means to suggest something

[cinder bridge]

Would it ruin the game for you?

[real star]

It would make it worse for me

[cinder bridge]

"oh god a chaos insurgent! I have to delete this godforsaken property NOW"

[real star]

Holy shit dude

Not every single thing has to be taken to the absolute extreme to be true

I would dislike it

Would I still like the game, yes

Would I still play it, yes

Would I prefer literally any other GOI, yes

All of those things are true and I have said this stuff a thousand times over

[cinder bridge]

I want to talk with other people in this thread about how the chaos insurgency could be implemented or designed and such, but its just you and coffee arguing with people

[real star]

Then go do that

There were literally people just doing that before you

[cinder bridge]

I know, then it all started

[real star]

It started before that

Because the people who talked before you can bring up new topics in a conversation

[cinder bridge]

says the guy who has been literrally been talking about the same subject for weeks now

[real star]

Do you think this is the only thing I have done for weeks?

[cinder bridge]

but let me ask you one thing:
if you are so disinterested in the CI, then why are you still here?

[real star]

I am disinterested in the CI

This is a suggestions forum

I'm making suggestions surrounding the CI

[cinder bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/lock-in-cat-locks-in-locked-in-cat-calico-cat-locked-in-gif-15260593852429593904

[real star]

Look up the definition of a suggestion

[cinder bridge]

if you are, THEN JUST LEAVY THIS THREAD! if you dont want to bring anything other to the table then it would be best for everyone if you left this thread. Except if you just like arguing in which case, there are discord servers for that.
The rest of this thread should be filled with more productive chats.

[real star]

I am bringing things to the table

That being my disinterest

I don't think suggestion forums should be an echo chamber

[cinder bridge]

and its annoying

[real star]

Cool

[cinder bridge]

YOURE AN ECHO CHAMBER

[real star]

????

Do you just not know what an echo chamber is

[cinder bridge]

if nobody here can change your mind, then it isnt productive

[real star]

I'm explicitly going out of my way to encounter ideas that I dislike and engaging with them

That's the exact opposite of an echo chamber

If I left and went on my own to other people who think the same as me, that would be an echo chamber

One person cannot be an echo chamber

[cinder bridge]

in its way, it would then be an echo chamber to disagree with something all the time

[real star]

No

That's just not what that means

That's called having an opinion

I would be swayed on this if someone could bring up an actual way the CI could get added to the game

I've said I would be fine were it to be a DLC, although I would still prefer other groups

[cinder bridge]

then just make your own thread about a GOI that you like

[covert spear]

The issue is that people HAVE brought up good arguments, you just ignore them and go "Nuh uh".

[cinder bridge]

you mentioned church of the broken god right? go talk about that

[real star]

Any time I've shot something down I've rationalized it clearly

[cinder bridge]

way to ruin a good convo

[real star]

?

[real star]

I don't think the CotBG would fit well into the base game

I do like them as a group

[cinder bridge]

--you mentioned church of the broken god right? go talk about that--

[covert spear]

No you most definitely did not. Ever.

All you've done in this thread is act like an ass towards everyone with your only argument I've seen being "I dont like it." And "there's other GOIs."

I agree with the fact that I think there are better GOIs than the CI but that's the only somewhat good argument you've brought up and, like I've said, you're just being an ass

[real star]

"I don't like it" isn't an argument

[covert spear]

THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING IT

[real star]

I wasn't trying to portray that as an argument

[covert spear]

You very clearly are considering how many times you've mentioned that you don't like it

[cinder bridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/753421335266459782/1025727758942359662/mussolini.gif

[covert spear]

What on God's earth is that

[real star]

A vast majority of the discussion was
"I don't like it"
"(reasons I don't like it)"

[cinder bridge]

Have you turned or something? youre litterally arguing with yourself

[real star]

You just never understood what I was saying

[covert spear]

Your reasoning being that you think they're boring and are stuck in Series 1. Which is not a good argument

[cinder bridge]

sorry your deity! my insignifigance was to stupid to comprehense your words

[real star]

And I proceeded to bring up many things that show why they are still stuck in series 1

E.G. their motives are never explained, and they are often portrayed as a cartoon-esque villian group because of that

[cinder bridge]

supporting a bad argument is not making it a lot stronger, that is like 8th grade school stuff

[real star]

"supporting something bad doesn't make it better"

[covert spear]

Yeah but them being stuck in Series 1 (in your opinion) has literally nothing to do with the game.

The writers could make up literally any reason for them to exist. They could create a whole bunch of lore around it that could completely rationalize and justify the CI being involved in the game.

[real star]

I did explain why that would be bad

[covert spear]

Like i said before, you just don't want them in the game

[real star]

Making up that much about the CI would be entirely changing the group

[cinder bridge]

no, no it wouldnt

[real star]

Yes, yes it would

The primary thing that is supposed to be interesting about the CI is the engine and the engineer, as I have said before

[covert spear]

So what you are saying is that even though the CI is boring (in your opinion), you would decline the chance for the devs to add any sort of lore and nuance about the CI to make them interesting?

[real star]

Creating all of this motive that would rationalize and justify them would take away from the fact that the engine does kinda just make them do random shit

[real star]

I would decline changing the group as a whole to fit the game, rather than bringing another group that would already fit the game

[real star]

A B-plot about this, like in a DLC, would be cool

In the base game, it would distract from the actually important stuff

[covert spear]

You are completely ignoring the argument here. This is not about adding other GOIs. This is about the Chaos Insurgency.

I agree that I would rather have them be a DLC mission but i think you are only saying that because people have broken down your main argument over and over.

[real star]

This is about adding the CI to the game, we have one intermission left, so one more slot for a mission set in a different location with a different player faction

[cinder bridge]

the group is usually portrayed as a third world terrorist organisation in the anomalous underworld antagonising the SCPF and originates from a rouge group of alpha one operatives. They were meant to be a blank slate to interpret an anti foundation force when needed and have gotten REALLY popular from then. but they can differ greatly when compared between media. Take scp sl as an example, they come in the facility and steal scp items and class d to bring down the foundation. They can be interpretet by ANYONE as ANYTHING, including the Affray Interactive team and US

[real star]

SL portrays them incorrectly

Explicitly for gameplay purposes

[cinder bridge]

THERE IS NO INCORRECTLY!!!

[real star]

SL is a multiplayer game that is not story based

[cinder bridge]

you can interpret anything from scp as you want

[cinder bridge]

it does have a story

[real star]

There is no interpretation of the CI on the wiki that is at all similar to the one shown in SL

[real star]

story based

The story is on top of the gameplay, not the basis of it

[cinder bridge]

scp has grown much further from the wiki

plus 5K plays before the 5000 article in 2019

[real star]

Affray have said that they are directly following the wiki

[covert spear]

This is the point that people are trying to make. The CI in the game doesn't have to be based on any current interpretation of the lore on the wiki.

[cinder bridge]

they arent even mentioned in the wiki

[real star]

So why add the CI then?

If everything is different why call it the CI?

[real star]

?

[covert spear]

If that were true, we wouldnt be the UIU considering that they've gotten their asses handed to them in every single UIU story

[real star]

This is a natural progession of the UIU from the state they are in on the wiki

[cinder bridge]

why call mcdonalds mcdonalds??? PROPERTY MY GUY

[real star]

The wiki UIU existed in the past in the 5K universe

[cinder bridge]

im actually boutta tweak

[real star]

If mcdonalds made a mcdonalds building and you went inside and it was a gunstore what would you think?

[covert spear]

So why do you feel they couldn't do the same with CI?

They could take an interpretation of the CI from the wiki and have their own little twist on it.

[covert spear]

Id think that's one fucked up McDonalds

[cinder bridge]

exactly

wait no

other way around

cant you read?

[real star]

Can you?

[real star]

Here is where we could have an actual discussion on what the CI could be @cinder bridge

[cinder bridge]

if a burger joint owned by mcdonalds, wasnt named mcdonalds, that would be just stupid

[real star]

What twist would make them actually work and still have the wiki CI be in the past in the universe

[real star]

If they have an entirely different menu and store layout and still called it mcdonalds that would be stupid

[cinder bridge]

thats not what im saying

[real star]

I know dumbass

[cinder bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/lock-in-cat-locks-in-locked-in-cat-calico-cat-locked-in-gif-15260593852429593904

youre a lost cause

[real star]

If the CI is entirely different in the game, excluding the name, that would be stupid

[cinder bridge]

like talking to a brick wall

[real star]

You're saying that they should still call it the CI because of mcdonalds

[real star]

Why is fanta not called coca-cola? is coca-cola stupid?

smh

companies these days

[green sluice]

Incorrectly is a wild claim

this organization is directly antagonistic to the Foundation, using deadly force to attempt to prevent Foundation containment of multiple anomalies. The Foundation has also been infiltrated by agents of the Insurgency in the past, resulting in the loss of valuable scientific data, theft of a number of anomalies, and deaths of personnel. Personnel are made to be aware of possible raids, terrorist action, and spies from the Insurgency is the classic summary

[real star]

They don't treat class-d any differently than the Foundation does and they also don't only antagonize the Foundation

[green sluice]

Considering who's saying that re: Foundation pov, that's fairly suspect re: D class in that the source literally says it's "just like what we do fr!111" . re: antagonism, yeah, of course they don't, but they're antagonistic to the Foundation

[night garnet]

what the fuck has this thread become

[real star]

It generally would not make sense for them to treat D-Class any differently than the Foundation

Plus, there is an MC&D article that says the CI sells D-Class to them

[runic frost]

Cite that.

[cinder bridge]

Have you watched the containment breach ending?

[real star]

Yes

Is CB the scp wiki?

[cinder bridge]

Dude, cb is likely the most successful thing to come out of SCP in general. Most people got introduced by it and it is thus in a lot of canons

[real star]

Yeah?

Minus the last part

It's not in any canons on the wiki

It would be pretty impossible to fit it into any considering most of the SCPs there are explicitly stated to be at different sites

Success does not equal correctness

When talking about what the CI actually is, we should talk about what the CI actually is

[cinder bridge]

If you were to say that everything has to be like the wiki then we wouldnt have all the popularity we have right now. Plus I meant headcanons and unofficial ones, its the most popular depiction of site 19 to date which, if you like your wiki so much, is a really popular site. It would also make sense then to also adopt the CI shown in the game ending. SCP sl copied that and put it to a game mechanic and lore reason and scp sl is really successful

[cinder bridge]

We aint talkin about that

you are

[real star]

That's what was being talked about

If you actually read the discussion then you would know that

[cinder bridge]

No, it was what you wanted to bring as an argument

[real star]

That was what was being talked about

[runic frost]

https://tenor.com/view/far-cry-3-vass-montenegro-did-i-ever-tell-you-the-definition-of-insanity-insanity-gif-9162815073500878983

[real star]

By more than just me

[cinder bridge]

on god

[real star]

It's the most popular depiction of Site-19 despite not being set in Site-19

That's crazy

Have you even played CB?

The CI ending doesn't really even make it clear what the CI are going to do with you

[cinder bridge]

They most defenetly have a reason to put themselves in such danger

[real star]

?

I'm not saying they did it for no reason

[cinder bridge]

SCP sl makes the reason that they want foundation secrets from the d bois

[runic frost]

Most SCP games aren't valid source of information since most of them aren't canon, canon like articles within the wiki.

[real star]

5K is an actually canon SCP game

All of the leadup to the game, all of the changes to things, as far as I know, are on the wiki

[cinder bridge]

Yes, but everyone can take liberties from any canon or article, that is the beatiful thing about SCP. And 5K does it too, as an example they have scp 173-B which, if I remember right, wasnt mentioned in the 5000 article.

[real star]

173-B is explained in UIU 1972-055

IIRC

[runic frost]

And I'm pretty sure most of the Area-12 stuff within the game are in the SCP wiki.

[cinder bridge]

Yes, they wrote the article for 7528 and the door squid

[real star]

And for Area-12

And for 7555

And for UIU 1972-055

[cinder bridge]

see, they can just change for how they would want

nothings stopping anyone

[real star]

All of that was built off of existing things on the wiki

Plus, those writers aren't working for the game anymore

[cinder bridge]

rome wasnt built in a day, so wasnt the wiki either, it can change and adapt with new writers

[real star]

That's highly unlikely considering the actual circumstances of the game

[cinder bridge]

what you find likely doesnt matter

it doesnt stop the Affray team from writing another article

[real star]

The old writers were all highly respected, and the Affray articles were still on shaky ground. In terms of other writers, them getting more wiki writers onboard is basically impossible, and the current writer (singular) for the game as of now is Bishop, and I don't think an Affray article written purely by non-Wiki members would stay up.

[runic frost]

The points are:
1.) If it's not in the wiki, it's not a valid information.
2.) SCP: 5K and some other SCP games are 'canon' in ways, like how articles are written for them in the wiki.
3.) CB and SL aren't considered 'canon' like the ones mentioned from above, since they don't have materials like articles being written.

[cinder bridge]

there are lots of articles on the wiki that are just like goofy things or world breaking, I think an article by the Affray writing team would be respected no matter what

[real star]

No

The SCP Wiki is not particularly fond of Affray

The writers of the Affray articles are why they are staying up

[runic frost]

The actions of 1 person caused all of the previous wiki writers to leave.

[old citrus]

i'd be down for a CI mission
would give me an excuse to use the aks more often

[real star]

If we're still in America in a CI mission it would still make sense for the CI to use western weapons

[old citrus]

Maybe
Kinda weird how Guards use aks despite area 12 being in America

[cinder bridge]

I mean the foundation is international so they probably imported thier favourite weapons

But the CI is funded with from dictators, so theyd def use AKs

[green sluice]

this is a very...superficial understanding of how it might work tbh

[real star]

I have a feeling that will be changed in the future

The guards have been using every weapon in the game since they were added, same with the D-Class

[real star]

That's not how that works

A paramilitary group will always use whatever is most available in their AO

They are not officially part of a government, so they are going to have trouble getting supplies from non-civilian manufacturers

[limber crest]

type shit bro

[sweet gulch]

Since the CI (from what I understand) don’t have a defined goal, maybe the developers could add their own spin. The question is what would it be like?

[pure nymph]

I agree, I'd like to see the devs take.

[sweet gulch]

This is just my thoughts, but they would fit well as angry civilians or unwashed soldiers making a militia.

I know this deviates from the lore slightly, but SCP:5K is a different story than SCP-5000 so it could work.

[green sluice]

The joke is they kinda do

1. Normalcy bad, especially Foundation bad. Foundation go boom

[green sluice]

2. use and steal anomalies a lot

3. Utopia or something with CI calling the shots

[green sluice]

Ironically it does show up every so often

I will note that some level of coordination or intent seems to go hand in hand with CI

even at the same time as they have their mystery box deal

5000 is, ironically, in some ways complete and utter vindication for CI's "Foundation the worst of all possible things" perspective

the flipside is uh they're probably a bit busy dying to say I told you so

[mortal isle]

The ci don't have a goal

[green sluice]

I mean

They kinda do?

[mortal isle]

No they don't

[green sluice]

Like the original goes "lol they want power"

The remake of the hub handwaves to "utopia"

overthrow of normalcy and the Foundation is itself a goal

[mortal isle]

No they don't

[green sluice]

Okay but like, I'm citing specific examples of them, in fact, having goals.

[mortal isle]

They do what their superiors tell them to do no questions

No real goal

[green sluice]

read the rest of the summary there

"They are told that they are carrying out a great rebellion against the anarchy of the status quo—a world where "consensus reality" itself is an illusion, history's great lie, perpetrated by the Foundation. They are told that they will use the anomalous to build a utopian future, where humanity is master of everything, not just a mirage. But really, who knows what the Chaos Insurgency actually wants?"

Even this take, while intentionally ambiguous

flat out lists a plan and several beliefs

[mortal isle]

The end confirms there's no real goal

[green sluice]

It...kinda doesn't.

[mortal isle]

🦜

Okay what's the goal then

[green sluice]

Okay so you can take the hub at face value, the note in the other tab, or follow reinterpretations in specific stories.

But like, all three have various (if different) goals.

The summary there: 1. Break down consensus reality, break down the Foundation as you know it, 3. use the anomalous to build a human-controlled utopia.

2. The Engine is calling the shots/playing them while Delta Command is getting played but presumably has some variation of the default in mind. This gets messier because the Engine in the Darkness stories is uh, debatably sentient at all. But Delta here has goals even if the average Insurgents aren't in on it.

3. Reinterpretaions: vary a bunch but Foundation Bad and use anomalies to get Good Stuff is pretty consistent

[mortal isle]

They break reality what do they get out of it? They build a utopia what do they get out of it? They build the engine what do they get out of that?

No real goal or gun goal

[green sluice]

I mean...Utopia is literally its own justification?

Sure it's a bit vague but like, that literally is a goal

breaking reality is easy, in that consensus reality presumably gets in the way of stuff like utopia

They also didn't build the Engine as such (not here, anyway), and the Engine is basically a cheatcode due to near-infallibility

But like, by definition, a utopia is a goal

a vague one but

[mortal isle]

No it's not

[green sluice]

Definitionally it kinda is

Literally "perfect society" (or no place if you're being cute) but like, "they're chasing what they think is a perfect society" is a goal.

[mortal isle]

Nuh uh

[cinder bridge]

bro got rage baited

[limber crest]

rage baited so hard bass pro shops got ran out of business

[rugged gull]

they were pre last to get destroyed, then GOC

would be good to see Chaos last stand

like the song

[sweet gulch]

Here lies Ground Zero for the stupidest argument I’ve ever seen. (Not the suggestion itself)

[mortal isle]

I forgot why I started trolling here

[native silo]

Not officially, but logically, it sounds like the truth

[real star]

It does not logically sound like the truth

The GOC survived because they were a multinational organization with all of the world's resources

The CI is a terrorist organization

[native silo]

I relied on logic like the Vietnam Army

CI is located all over the world, engaged in guerrilla warfare, and does not have a central location that they defend

How can you defeat them with limited forces while fighting a huge GOC army?

https://tenor.com/view/vince-mcmahon-gif-2846744691193008994

[real star]

Guerrilla warfare?

That's not what that means

[native silo]

In SCP 5000

[real star]

They aren't in 5000

[native silo]

They weren't mentioned, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist in that universe

[real star]

They aren't in the article of 5000

Also, yes, that is what that means

[native silo]

Did the author say that they are not in his story?

[real star]

There are tons of anomalies and groups that would've totally changed 5000 if they were in 5000 which is why they aren't

This is how all writing is assumed to work on the wiki

[native silo]

Okay, I heard it

It`s sad

[real star]

By dropping nukes all over the world

The GOC can survive nukes because they have the resources to do so

The CI doesn't

[native silo]

The world powers and the GOK clearly have air defense systems that can be shot down

[real star]

The GOC survived as long as they did because of Ganzir specifically

[native silo]

Why, for example, would Russia, a huge country, not intercept hundreds of warheads and leave large areas for survival, while CI agents could hide there?

[real star]

Which had an anomalous shield around it

[real star]

The Foundation would overwhelm them easily

An entire country with a lot of power is different from a group with even more power than that country

[native silo]

That's what I'm talking about, why can't CI be in a country that protects itself, then the country unwittingly protects CI too

[real star]

A country wouldn't survive

[mortal isle]

Zazu would

[spring sand]

The great chaos insurgency incident of 2025 strikes again

[native silo]

Yes, I'm saying that some of the land will remain untouched by nuclear strikes

Not the whole country will remain whole

Pietro Wilson didn't die from radiation or get hit by a nuclear blast...

Moreover, he also met the surviving GOC soldiers

And MTF

And Pietro Wilson had never been to Africa, Asia, or Russia (I think)

Just because it's not mentioned in the article doesn't mean it doesn't exist)

Okay, I won't justify them here

Sorry Call

[covert spear]

Is this argument seriously still going? Its been months

[sweet gulch]

It just started back up because someone can’t let it go

[real star]

because of the suit

[native silo]

What about GOC and MTF soldiers?

And others survivors

Like girl and Dr. Bright

[real star]

they weren't nuking their own soldiers, and the GOC were able to survive for so long because of their tech

[real star]

It should be obvious how bright survived

[native silo]

Bright inhabits non-immortal bodies
Then why didn't his "body" die from radiation?

[real star]

Some of the people in the CI might survive anyways, but the engineer and engine would be destroyed almost immediately

[real star]

the foundation did not nuke the entire world

[native silo]

YES!

Exactly

That's why I mentioned guerrilla warfare

Not centralized, just kill in small squads

[real star]

I was saying that the CI would not have lasted that long, not that some of the people wouldn't have lasted that long

If the engineer is killed and the engine is destroyed the CI wouldn't exist

and I don't know what they would be doing anyways if somehow they did survive

[native silo]

Okay, fair enough

As a separate, integral organization, they would have already ceased to exist

https://tenor.com/view/xqc-xqcl-gif-25519231

It`s more sad

[native silo]

We need to fix these messages so that there are no more questions about this topic

Yeah, really sad

[real star]

?

[native silo]

I mean, it`s written about CI before, and to avoid any more questions about it, it would be a universal answer

[cinder bridge]

bro is back to rage baiting

[native silo]

https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-james-doakes-sus-face-james-doakes-suspicious-james-doakes-reaction-erik-king-gif-14404252364057104628

[rugged gull]

i think at the beginning 5k, it changed

i mean

logically

but to see a mission inspired by "Fall of the insurgency" still would be cool

also, we played as UIU and GOC, CI would sound logically

[cinder bridge]

yesss

[real star]

Two groups that are apart of Faultline, the CI isn't apart of Faultline, and would actually probably be antagonistic towards it

[real star]

Don't know what that means

[real star]

That would definitely be better than any of the ideas I've heard for them before

[mortal isle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1149108854794244189/1271453881338957864/caption.gif?ex=69109133&is=690f3fb3&hm=9bedde295d8a07bad3bc341f9cb2888e2e0f59358465f7decfc0f99544eec1b7&

[rugged gull]

looks like what i was trying to imply is, because SCP is evil now, chaos gained more power and authority so they are not like terrorists they were

[real star]

That wouldn't happen

one group trying to kill everyone doesn't mean that another group which is self serving and terroristic would suddenly become good

[rugged gull]

i did not say they are good, i said that between SCP and CI in this universe, some people would probably choose CI (if not GOC)

[real star]

Nobody is choosing between them

The Foundation also isn't really evil in this universe

The CI is evil though

[rugged gull]

i know, but for the rest of humanity they are just trying to destroy them

would be funny to discover that pain is anomaly

[rugged gull]

Thinks*

[rugged gull]

I forgot it

[rugged gull]

also, there is no evil in scp universe

ma bad

no good

only bad and worse

[real star]

The CI were literally created because the old version of the Foundation was basically evil so they needed something that was actually evil

And the CI hasn't really developed since then even though the Foundation has

[rugged gull]

yeah

as if scp narrative has consistent canon

and what do you mean "old" foundation?

[runic frost]

Early writings of the Foundation.

[native silo]

Sounds like this: "Since the day we went rogue, the day when the Foundation became our enemy, we were right"

[rugged gull]

yeah

[native silo]

The Chaos Insurgency Hub is a fairly official article that you can rely on to understand them?

Because while I was reading it, I had a vision that, for example, if the Foundation locks the illogical in a cage in order to preserve the logical, then Chaos is trying to create the logical from the illogical, to combine the abnormal with the normal

[real star]

In the writing section it says they don't have an actual specific goal

[native silo]

I don't know anything about their goals, I've only read their ideology

"To Break The Gates of Heaven…And Contest the Tyranny of Mountains"

Actually, to be honest

The actions of Chaos Insurgency are more similar to the actions of the computer "Good Boy" SCP 001

Doing something illogical to make reality logical

Only in the universe of this 001 computer, no one could prevent it from fighting the Foundation, but in all other universes, the Foundation is hindered by Chaos Insurgency

[rugged gull]

well, if we go logically, they when wanna free scps and use them for the better of humanity

but if we say go nerd way

there is no canon

[real star]

that's not at all what any interpretation of the CI has ever been

They are entirely self-centered

They don't want to free anything, they want it for themselves

[native silo]

So, that`s not canon too?

[rugged gull]

scp is a free canon, if you interpreted it that way, i interpretedd it other way

[rugged gull]

just like scp

[rugged gull]

there is no canon

[real star]

everything is fake

nothing is real

nobody is correct

[native silo]

I mean, you have to stick to something

[real star]

Not at all

The Foundation is containing things to protect the outside world

The CI is taking things for their own use

[rugged gull]

if you say so

[rugged gull]

really? what about safe scps?

[real star]

Safe SCPs aren't safe in the normal sense, they're just really easy to contain

[rugged gull]

most of them

[real star]

plenty of safe SCPs would be world-ending if not contained

[real star]

No, literally all of them

That is the definition of safe in the SCP universe

[real star]

There literally is a canon which we are talking about

5K is a canon

[rugged gull]

what?

since when ci got some time in 5k except fan creations?

we were talking about ci

[real star]

why are you stupid

did you not read the post you are replying to

This is discussing the possible addition of the CI to 5K

[rugged gull]

yes, but ours converstation was about CI at all

[covert spear]

This argument has been repeated like 4 times already

[real star]

what does this even mean

[native silo]

Which of them?

[real star]

it's all the same argument

[covert spear]

All if it

[native silo]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-thinking-monkey-thinking-think-money-gif-9734025314392564509

[rugged gull]

we were talking about CI in the whole scp multiuniverse

and 5k doesnt have canon

[real star]

no we weren't

[real star]

yes it does

[covert spear]

Im gonna refer to this @native silo

This was back in May

[rugged gull]

we literally said that earlier that 5000 og and the game are different universes

[real star]

Yes

5K is a canon

5000 is a canon

[native silo]

Exactly

[rugged gull]

The canon of a work of fiction is "the body of works taking place in a particular fictional world that are widely considered to be official or authoritative; [especially] those created by the original author or developer of the world".[2] Canon is contrasted with, or used as the basis for, works of fan fiction and other derivative works

which one of them is official?

scp is derivative works

all of it

mostly

no

my bad

not mostly, entirely

[covert spear]

I mean technically, all of them are official and none of them are at the same time. There are multiple canons.

The 5000 canon is referring to the wiki article, the actual SCP article.

The 5K canon that Cal is referring to is the game canon.

While the game is based on the article, its not following it 1 to 1 and is instead spinning its own story while staying in the boundaries of the original article.

[rugged gull]

then which canon were me and this guy talking about, cuz CI wasnt even mentioned in both of them, but canonicaly in both of them they are already "evil"?

[rugged gull]

thats why i said this

[covert spear]

This thread is discussing adding CI to the 5K canon. But since the Chaos Insurgency is an already established GOI in the wiki, the devs need to take it and either run with it or, as I suggested back in May, do what they did with the UIU and make their own interpretation of it.

CI likely wasn't mentioned in the article because it wouldnt have made much of a difference to the overall story. The GOC and Church of the Broken God (I think) are included to show how the world is reacting to the Foundation's omnicide.

The CI isnt mentioned in the game likely because its not mentioned in the article

[native silo]

They won't answer you much if it's about the whole universe

inflating the topic

Helios says some pretty wise things

[rugged gull]

I see

Alright then

Time to sleep

[native silo]

If one of the developers likes CI and there will be a place in the game to add them, I hope they will add them

In their own way

[native silo]

Good night

Hel and Cal, good night too

[covert spear]

Good night man

[rugged gull]

Good night, good luck

[native silo]

With their stylish cool design))

[cinder bridge]

I really would like a campaign where as chaos we would infiltrate a working scp site that tourned against humanity and have us take it out of commission or achieve an interest of the CI like killing some scientist or stealing an scp. At this point in the story nobody knows the true intentions of the foundation and the UIU and GOC would probably like a slice of the info and devastation the moles in the foundation can have. It would only make sense for every faction to achieve thier goal. The CI raid could deliver crucial intel, tools, remove strong opponents and disrupt the operation, and dont say the GOC wouldnt try fighting the foundation head on as we are litarlly putting each other in bodybags in the other campaigns

Also the CI lacks funding and they might be out for world domination but they would not let a fat paycheck from the UN slide, reinforcing my point about shared interests. Plus its the CIs goal anyways to disrupt the foundation

[sweet gulch]

I know the trope of “oh no, a bigger evil is threatening both our operations, so we should work with the heroes for an episode” is terrible if done incorrectly, but I can see this fitting well.

[mortal isle]

@mystic karma the rage bait was worth it twin