An idea for the Fists of Steel

[floral kelp]

I personally feel like heavy is too weak solo. The biggest reason for that (I feel) is the lack of the fists of steel. Comparing my time with Heavy in live tf2 and here made me appreciate how often the fists of steel got my ass out of a bad situation, but at the same time it makes a heavy too tanky when with a medic, so this is my solution: We keep the ranged damage resistance and the melee vulnerability and then we remove heavy's ability to be overhealed. I was inspired by the fact that here Medic's melee unlockables very powerful situational benefits and demand a severe, permanent downside to compensate for it.

[primal flare]

"We wont add more weapons from tf2"

-tf2c dev team

[floral kelp]

Oh shit fr? Well that's sad

[primal flare]

Also honestly skill issue

[floral kelp]

Eh? I still think giving heavy a bit of extra ability to pick his fights is a good thing, especially on roamer.

Besides it's also good for getting through sniper sightlines

[primal flare]

I mean hunting revolver existing already helps that with it's low dmg per shot

[floral kelp]

Not everyone runs it, some are still on stock sniper

besides if someone finds it frustrating, they can switch to stock

Also I fucked up with the item card, here's how it ought to be.

[vernal jacinth]

I'd say he does

He has a shotgun

Said shotgun means he can engage and disengage from combat without having to slow himself down to rev or unrev

[floral kelp]

Shotgun lets him scout out fights before committing, while Fists of Steel let him escape an engagement gone sour

I think the shotgun is good for pelting people while running, while the fists let you tank more damage and have better odds of escaping

[vernal jacinth]

Shotgun is a good deterrent to keep people from chaisng you down

[floral kelp]

Yeah, the logic checks out, but would they in practice, since if they saw a Heavy take a lot of damage, they might just take the fight and win, while the fists give heavy the option forfeit and survive.

[primal flare]

Best way to handle this is suggest a primary that promotes a more ambushing and flank mindset similar to the huo long heater

[vernal jacinth]

I don't see how the fists prevent enemies from chasing the heavy down and engaging in a fight that they're basically guaranteed to win

Like yeah the heavy is tanking more damage but he's not able to retaliate

The interaction is boiled down to "shoot heavy more because he pressed 3"

[floral kelp]

I think that gives him more distance and that distance could bring him back to his teammates, who will chace the assailant away, at least that's what happens in my experience

[vernal jacinth]

I also feel like Heavy is a class that should be punished harshly for poor positioning and miscalculating fights

[primal flare]

I mean if you are in that scenario it will almost never help

[floral kelp]

And I agree, but feel like he gets too harshly punished, like he's so extreme in that regard.

[vernal jacinth]

For a class that has the ability to wipe large groups of enemies out in one go very easily should he get the setup, being punished for being caught out of position is totally fair

I think that learning how to avoid being caught out of position or off guard is a pretty big part of heavy's skill curve and I'm not sure I'm a big fan of negating/reducing that

[floral kelp]

Honestly I think the rest of the tf2c dev team think so too. Tf2 has some items that exist purely to help soften the downside of a class and seeing their complete absence from the game, I guess that suggesting the fists of steel is kinda pointless from the start.

still, if that's not the case then I think these would be a good addition

And besides, it's not like you get it for free

your survivability during a fight drops! I think thats fair

[inland hedge]

Are we gonna get an large shield for heavy? Sacrificing offense entirely for defense or something. Originals devs had idea of an class that merely exists to tank (the fanmade class called Brick)

[floral kelp]

Doubt it, also wasn't the wall just some meme Shounic made into a mod?

[inland hedge]

I mean of course not making brick literally but having an large door shield that blocks attack or something. I could swear i seen an custom weapon like that for heavy before. It will be an both an fresh take on fist of steel while also being an source of protection

[primal flare]

Yes every custom weapons server had one

It's bs and annoying and boring and ruins heavy as a concept

End of story

[inland hedge]

Where can i find those servers? I would like to see it myself

[floral kelp]

I mean it would make heavy more tanky, but I think the people who hated the fists of steel would hate this more, since the whole reason it got hated on in live tf2 (as far as I know) is because it made heavy too much of a pain in the ass to take down in a fight, while this suggestion exists to focus the fists on being an escape utility.

[primal flare]

I mean rn with steam release custom weps prob getting ready to set back up

So it might still take a bit

[floral kelp]

Besides I think the riot shield reduces heavy to being a simple damage check and I think that's boring.

[primal flare]

Exactly