nerf demoman mines and snipers hunting rifle

[gloomy spire]

these 2 guns are straight upgrade, ask anyone and they will say both or just the rifle is busted (it's like 1/2-1/3 chance for someone to also say the mine gun)

sidenote: i feel like spy needs a buff.after 1 or 2 games people will constantly spy check making it really hard to get a kill (btw im a spy main)

[gray jay]

Spy is definitely a little underpowered yeah.

[gloomy spire]

how would someone buff spy tho

[floral olive]

eh spy doesn't need a buff but a new weapon

[gloomy spire]

what makes you say that

[floral olive]

well he doesn't have any that really change how u play him

[gloomy spire]

ok but like why shouldnt he be buffed a little?

[floral olive]

he probably will be. he is constantly getting qol features that kinda buff him

but new weapon would be nicer over one small buff

[gloomy spire]

i think you missed a point i was talking about. after 1 or 2 games people will be constantly spy checking and looking for a spy, so even with a new weapon at his core without a buff he will be weaker

than normal tf2

[floral olive]

and ppl shouldnt spy check?

[gloomy spire]

?

[floral olive]

i dont think any buff would prevent that idk

[gloomy spire]

yeah but like a hp buff or some other kind of buff could really help spy

[floral olive]

isn't he intentionally weak tho?

[gloomy spire]

btw spy was already seen as the worst character in tf2 so him being even worse is really bad

[gloomy spire]

nah he is just indirectly weaker because they dont have a normal game queue like tf2

[floral olive]

he isnt worse in classified i think hes really powerful in classified rn

[gloomy spire]

im sorry what?

[floral olive]

just commented on this (if that's what u mean)

[gloomy spire]

oh wait are you talking about 4s?

[floral olive]

4s?

[gloomy spire]

4 teams

[floral olive]

nah like overall. no hats for example help spy rn

[gloomy spire]

wait how do hats nerf spy in normal tf2

[floral olive]

u can kinda tell whos there twice idk

but ye more hp maybe would be nice

[gloomy spire]

i mean in my experience every server i play in for longer than 2 games people just start spy checking and constantly going for spys

it's unplayable

[floral olive]

ah that's sad

[tropic topaz]

This is a natural part of playing any class though

If the enemy team knows there’s a sentry nest around the corner, they’re going to throw pipes down that corner

If the enemy team knows there’s a sniper down that sightline

They’re going to avoid the sightline

It’s just general counterplay

[ember lark]

i think you are wrong and that stock is stronger

[gloomy spire]

dont ask me ask the servers. and could you also explain why it is stronger ?

[ember lark]

in the case of the sniper rifle, giving up one shot potential is a really big downside. i think what you get in return is a fair trade, it seems balanced to me. in the case of the mine layer, they just changed it with the steam release, so i don't have that much experience fighting the new minelayer, but honestly, with all the changes it has been through, i think people will call it OP forever, even if they nerf it completely in to the ground. if i'm tryharding, i will continue to use stock stickies, they seem like the better option

[gloomy spire]

i mean i think you think everything is balanced after what you said with that rifle it is so much easier to aim and faster firing speed and less blocked pov

most of the time you will 1 shot light classes cause they would be damaged

[ember lark]

if i'm playing sniper against a skilled team, i would usually prefer stock. valuable picks are not going to show themselves in your sightlines long enough to hit them with more than one shot

[ember lark]

i think there are better classes/weapons for punishing overextended scouts than hunting revolver sniper, and i don't see what other situations this statement would be true in

[gloomy spire]

i mean a lot of the time you also get a pick on a soldier since they rocket jump or just get damaged since they are often right at the front

[gloomy spire]

what gamemode do you play

might explain it

[ember lark]

that takes a lot of skill, i've never really had the experience that it's a huge problem to deal with as soldier

i play every gamemode pretty much, i like variety

[gloomy spire]

i pub stomp often with that rifle same as others

[ember lark]

rn i'm picturing 5cp/ attack defend/ payload in my head while i'm thinking of how the game feels to play, but i feel what i'm saying just applies generally

[gloomy spire]

ima leavve a final statement since i need to sleep. the rifle and often seen as a direct upgrade as it has faster shots, pov not getting blocked by scope, not zoomed in so much and use with team can easily beat the normal rifle. it having a lower zoom also makes it better for medium and lower ranges compared to stock which was the main downside of that gun

[ember lark]

i think the biggest upside of the hunting revolver is actually increased movement speed while scoped

there's a lot going for it, i just think that not being able to kill any full health player in a single shot makes it balanced

[gray jay]

I'd say the only reasonable nerf you could give the hunting revolver is removing its ability to headshot enemies.

But that's maybe a bit much.

[ember lark]

i think it would become useless

that wasn't a bad take, why did you delete it

[floral olive]

wait it can?

[gray jay]

Yeah

[floral olive]

i thought it wasn't possible in the older version :0

[ember lark]

some people get very confused, and think that it isn't possible because you have to be scoped. but the hunting revolver is a sniper rifle, it isn't the ambassador

[tepid carbon]

in my experience the mine layer is braindead easy to use (🩼) at the cost of lower dps

[maiden bobcat]

Make mines have lifetime

Make mines only detect people when minelayer is currently on hand

[tepid carbon]

not actually that threatening, esp because now you can just walk up to and then back away from a mine to det it with no damage

[tepid carbon]

pointless the problem with the weapon is the faster fire rate

[maiden bobcat]

I don't remember talking to you

[tepid carbon]

mines are actually ass at trapping

[maiden bobcat]

Jk

Maybe a lower clip size

Mines are good as a deterrent

Especially in chokeholds where projectiles are being spammed

[tepid carbon]

they dont deter

[maiden bobcat]

Barnyard Blitz for example

[tepid carbon]

you just spam and pray

[tepid carbon]

also this

stickies are controlled by the demo

the mines arent

most demos ive seen use the mines

[maiden bobcat]

Mines need 10 seconds of uptime before it ramps up to full damage

[tepid carbon]

but that's because the median tf2 player sucks ass at demo

[maiden bobcat]

That's my piece

[tepid carbon]

stickies especially

[gloomy spire]

Btw mines also auto kill disguised spys

[tepid carbon]

Mines deserve a nerf, not because they're strong, but because they're annoying.

[tepid carbon]

please play tf2c before spreading misinformation

[tepid carbon]

same as the cyclops

[maiden bobcat]

Do you act like an asshole to everyone or is this just a one time occasion

[gloomy spire]

Do they not? I swear I've got killed them in disguise

[tepid carbon]

they do not

[lofty sphinx]

mines don't need nerfs, moreso a full rework but the devs know this

[cinder sage]

exactly, they've been a problem for a long time

and no, they aren't a straight upgrade , rather kind of a crutch like people used to call the loch n load

[cinder sage]

I don't really use hunting revolver but there is a good point here

and sorry , if you can't handle spy checking , then ur doing something wrong or just bad luck which always been part of playing spy

not to say that he shouldn't get some sort of buff or cool weapon to help him out

although full stock spy is easily the best loadout , even in normal TF2 imo

[gloomy spire]

How do you handle spy checking?

[cinder sage]

use revolver, play with your team more and wait for distractions, sometimes even one teammate is enough , best case would be an uber push since that's when usually all enemies will go forward and stop thinking

minimise the time while you are seen while disguised going for a stab , like from some hiding spot

[gloomy spire]

K

[cinder sage]

sometimes you just can't do anything and really hope somebody doesn't turn around,

I don't see how any item would impare my ability to turn around to make it easier for spies

[gloomy spire]

Yeah

Btw what I meant by buff was like a slight hp buff maybe something else but just not an item

[cinder sage]

idk about that, one idea I always had is stop spy from flickering out of cloak while taking fall damage, why is that on? because it's an old feature , but it's kinda nerfing the sneakyness of spy

[gloomy spire]

What about more cloak on backstab or gub

[cinder sage]

gub?

you mean gun? so more cloak on every kill

idk you already get half from the weapon they drop

[gloomy spire]

Oh true

[tepid carbon]

spy checking is a problem of positioning

avoid the backline if the team is spy aware

thats where people don't have anything going on so they just turn around at random

[cinder sage]

also if the enemy team is willing to chase you , even if it's one person or X , that one guy or X amount can be beneficial to your team , because they are not fighting them and chasing you around

[tepid carbon]

if this is happening switch class

[cinder sage]

true , soldier or scout , demo is better at this

[tepid carbon]

its not worth it at that point

[cinder sage]

a lot of spy problems are solved like this lmao

if you care about winning

[tepid carbon]

it sounds fun to lead a whole pack of people around buuut its actually annoying / boring

[cinder sage]

it's pretty hilarious sometimes, but if you had more firepower you could take them on

more easily

[tepid carbon]

truth nuke: spy should have a base dmg resistance to fire to compensate for the pyro buffs

[cinder sage]

interesting

[tepid carbon]

cant even try a trickstab

[lofty sphinx]

that'd be fine but it'd also feel pretty tacked on

[cinder sage]

idk if that will matter, an average pyro with some experience won't let you trickstab him, and the DMG Res might not even matter

does spy have the 20% resistance buff on cloak in TF2c ? Im not sure

and shorter afterburn and debuff timing

[lofty sphinx]

yes

[cinder sage]

that's good

[lofty sphinx]

don't remember whether the shorter afterburn thing is there

[cinder sage]

@restive thistle I summon you to spy discussion

[cinder sage]

wiki says yes

[ornate crest]

Nerfing the mine is like nerfing the bison DONT MASSACRE MY BOY

Im fine with nerfing the hunting Rifle I dont like fighting against it

[ember lark]

tbh i don't care either way, i just don't think either of them are OP

[lofty sphinx]

neither should be "nerfed"

[tepid carbon]

yes it wont matter in the majority of situations

i just want w+m1 pyros to fear the trickstab

[gloomy spire]

Crazy

[restive thistle]

Spy is fine

[worldly coral]

Minelayer is not OP just braindead apparently O_o

Hunting revolver is like worse stock unless you're being constantly bombed/flanked every 3s

[worldly coral]

At this point I think minelayer should be removed

And replaced with this

https://youtu.be/yA8M6COFePw?si=hnZdQsj_UaX0fUSs

Unironically this is perfect design

[cinder sage]

fr I always liked this

[cinder sage]

thank you for your input 🫡

[manic steeple]

i wouldn't call them "upgrades" necessarily, but they're definitely way too good in their current states and incredibly annoying.

HR buff was unnecessary and makes sniper way too hard to hit while scoped and the ML changes make the weapon a full spam weapon with little to no interesting trap potential anymore

[restive thistle]

Yeah tbh I think the HR buff is strong enough that you could remove the health bonus.

[acoustic crescent]

why not just revert the movement buff

i was honestly surprised to see the buff myself i really didn't think it needed one

the minelayer is kind of crazy now though yeah

[outer sigil]

I would like a hunting revolver nerf because it feels annoying to deal with in a sniper duel where your enemy has 1 hp overheal therefore quickscoping them doesnt work

Old darwin shield all over again

[frozen island]

Minelayer isn't OP in that it's strong, but rather with just how braindead the gameplay is. Any demo can just chuck mines blindly at a crowded area and they're likely to get a few kills, if not at least distract the other team for a bit. Was on a viaduct game earlier where I demo sat out of sight and just spammed them at the point. He never needed to look since they just auto-detonate.

It's just kinda silly that it's easier to sticky spam with it than the stock launcher. It's boring, and despite it being mines on a defensive class, it's better used offensively.

[lunar mango]

the mines are fine i think, unless they got changed AGAIN

hunting revolver doesnt need a nerf

anything the hunting revolver does the sniper rifle does better

[fading pewter]

I don't know how I missed this, sorry but this thread should probably be remade in #1375954618952974388, this forum is for misc suggestions and not weapon balancing