100 more damage
#JP Discussion and Help
past panther
nice one dude! i ve been on a bit of sf6 break, Granblue Versus Rising has been pretty cool so i grinded that out recently
a lot of the coaches are playing it since there s a free demo
that has online ranked
and shit
grim lion
I've been playing a lot of starcraft 2, still stuck at the same place I was a year ago
past panther
I've been playing a lot of starcraft 2, still stuck at the same place I was a ye...
hard ass game
grim lion
I'm d1 in both Sc2 and sf6 and i think getting masters is much harder in Sc2
Also Brian F put out a new video and then put it to private. I was going to watch it over lunch but couldn't
past panther
ah shiet
oblique forum
And I'm already down to 1400 Mr lol
Will wait u til i stop being sick to play again haha
Missing everything and zero reactions
So I'm messing around with Marisa on the leverless. Tried cammy but too intense / technical for my current state
My Marisa leverless was ranked as iron 3 lol
But it's good to train my DI reaction on the new controller
grim lion
@past panther what's the stun combo again? I have my notes saying j.HK, 6HK xx M spin into either damage combo (5HP xx OD ghost, L spike, [L spin xx SA3 |OR| SA1]) or setup (5HP xx spike and then OD portal right away)
Do we not portal during the stun and then do something out of it?
grim lion
my current notes
oblique forum
@grim lion can you put this in a gdoc of sorts?
oblique forum
@past panther on the burnout sa2 after OD spike. What do I do if the spike hits? I feel like I'm messing up
grim lion
<@110987944981991424> can you put this in a gdoc of sorts?
What for?
past panther
it is, you re not supposed to use sa2 like that haha, but it s more damage than anything else from OD spike
except raw sa3 or on counterhit spike sa3 link
oblique forum
What for?
It's good content and we could pin it
And I'd keep it for reference . Searching a thread is very bad on discord haha
grim lion
The notes aren't synced, I'll look at putting it in a nice format so it's readable and will stay up to date
merry crater
This character is not going well for me. I'm teetering on the bottom edge of Plat 1, not really sure how to approach a real gameplan with him. I keep dropping his combos. I can't seem to actually use most of his tools without being punished for them.
grim lion
Just went 3-2 in bracket
oblique forum
@merry crater If you're in eu i can try and give some tips if Leon isn't around
past panther
I have a flight today do I can't until laye
oblique forum
Damn this amnesia corner switch combo looks like something i need.
Same for this corner combo!
Also safe travels @past panther !
past panther
LOL
orchid turret
grim lion
I think lord venom is my favorite player ever. He chose to drop a combo to fish for a stun so he could win while taunting, twice, in street fighter league
bitter roost
muh jamie
past panther
it’s fun to get a whiff punish with sthp and deal 60% off that shit
and then keep doing corner buttslam loops
grim lion
grim lion
@past panther I see a ton of good JPs use back MP target combo. When is it used, why is it good?
grim lion
Also why is Brian_F using 5HP (blocked) xx spike?
past panther
Also why is Brian_F using 5HP (blocked) xx spike?
blockstringin'. a lot of good players learn to PP ghosts after 5HP and punish, so he mixes up the blockstring to keep em guessing
also im not sure if it's a true blockstring or if it has some other benefits
i think it does better against SA1
ghosts don't really behave properly to interrupt sa1 like they should
they whiff a lot
grim lion
What about the back mp thing?
past panther
from DR it leaves you closer so throw is a threat unlike after dr crmk
and other than that it s easy to hit confirm, it s plus on block after DR, hitbox is pretty good, and also it s your main way of converting with DR from lights into something like SA2
crlk crlp stlp DR crlp b.mp mp xx sa2 and you can go into your usual combo
stark cairn
not sure exactly what levels you're looking for but ive started messing with JP this last week or so, kinda one combo'd my way into low dia but i CBA to just brute force master again so id love to pick your brain about a few things if you're already full up
past panther
sure thing man, let me know when you're avaliable
i can do it tomorrow night or most of friday
stark cairn
i can do it tomorrow night or most of friday
looking like friday is the better bet, will let ya know if that changes tho ^^
lyric cloud
What about the back mp thing?
Also on corner can use back MP then DI
The spike after HP is risky as can be reacted to DI if the enemy blocks the HP
Can use the spike when you put the enemy in corner and you are in Oki
Spike then CLP as you will be in plus frames and the spike cancels some S1 on wake up (Ryu-Luke-others)
past panther
Also on corner can use back MP then DI
The spike after HP is risky as can be rea...
uhh no
if you DI after blocking st.hp you lose to st.hp xx ghost
and die
and that one is way more commonly used
spike is a way to mix that up when the opponent respects ghost
after sthp
also why would you b.mp xx DI ever. his go-to burnout DI cancels are DR stmk xx DI or sthp xx DI
past panther
hell yea
oblique forum
It was hard to break the habit of crHP after DRC
past panther
looking like friday is the better bet, will let ya know if that changes tho ^^
sup, you avaliable tomorrow mid day ish?
grim lion
Weird discovery:
5HP xx portal activate 5HP 5HP is acombo
grim lion
Yeah, but it hits high because portal spike launches them so high
@past panther what situations do I want to fish for counter hit 2MK? Spaced out it doesn't combo with 5LK, but up close the 9F startup seems like a big risk
Catch shimmy doesn't combo since it relies on the counter hit
Shimmy catch I might as well go for 2HK since it's 1F slower but actually gets something besides a bit of damage
past panther
not sure, probably more likely to get it against a burned out opponent. anyways most of the time you're gonna combo into 5lk it's gonna be close to tip range 5lk
it helps a lot that 2MK moves you forward a bunch
for checking shimmy both are good
for checking walk back 2mk is way better
and if they walk back to shimmy and press a button like ken doing walk back sthp, you can get the CH on the 2mk and be in range to combo too
grim lion
D3
grim lion
@past panther portal activates, knocking my opponent toward me. What do I do? I've been doing 5HP xx ghost but that seems like a poor use of the opportunity I was gifted
Also what are some better ways to start SA2? Right now it's DI into 5HK tc HP xx SA2 and 0 other ways
oblique forum
<@181487530661773312> portal activates, knocking my opponent toward me. What do ...
I like 5hp xx OD ghost spike, and maybe sa3, but sometimes the sa3 whiffs if the spike puts them to high. I Couldn't find out why... But the spike also allows portal if you're not going for sa3
oblique forum
Also what are some better ways to start SA2? Right now it's DI into 5HK tc HP xx...
From crlp xx Dr clp bMP xx bMP xx sa2
grim lion
I can't do those inputs reliably
oblique forum
Gotta practice though
grim lion
I am
oblique forum
I finally got it reliable enough to use in matches this week
Took a looong time
My brain wants to either mash lp or crHP after DRC
But it's getting better now
grim lion
5LP can be canceled at any of the active frames, which explains why I was dropping what I thought was a true combo
oblique forum
I like it as good side switch, from the Corner when doing sa2 you can do 5hk 5hk Hp qcb Hp jump over and hit again
oblique forum
5LP can be canceled at any of the active frames, which explains why I was droppi...
I rarely use 5lp :/
grim lion
you really should
Not on its own, but chaining out of 2LP
So you can hit 3 jabs instead of 2
oblique forum
But 5lp also hits
Ahhh
Duh
I read 5lk
I rarely use LK either 5 or 2, only use it with jumps
oblique forum
Btw, i learned the hard way that now 6HK can be cancelled on both hits. It has been messing up a lot for me lately
Was it always like that or did it change in some patch?
oblique forum
2LK chain 5LP is a great low hit confirm
Yeah, or 2mk CH into 5lk. But I can react to that
grim lion
Sometimes first hit doesn't connect though, that might be it?
oblique forum
I don't think so, when i use in neutral it cancels before launching in the air
And the second hit is the one that does it
oblique forum
From the ground hit 6hk and cancel DRC, in a few matches it cancelled before launching
Happened for the first time a few days ago and noticed it happening more... But didn't try to reproduce in lab
grim lion
I'm 6HK parry and then hands off the controller, its only doing cancel on second hit
I'm pretty sure first hit didn't happen or something?
oblique forum
Hmm maybe, it hit on the tip? So the first one didn't connect? But that should still launch 🤔
grim lion
Do you have a replay of it failing?
past panther
<@181487530661773312> portal activates, knocking my opponent toward me. What do ...
DR f.hk xx H spin
past panther
Also what are some better ways to start SA2? Right now it's DI into 5HK tc HP xx...
lights DR crlp b.mp mp xx sa2
grim lion
DR f.hk xx H spin
DR out of 5HP or reactively DR raw 6HK?
past panther
after the portal spike hits you do DR f.hk
that's the optimal way iirc
dr 5hp works too
past panther
which spike
edited my comment
grim lion
That seems really hard to reactively do
past panther
it's sort of a hit confirm thing
you asked what the optimal thing to do is haha, the easy thing is just 5hp into whatever
sometimes i just 5hp DR 5hp xx od ghost, H spike if I really need the damage
but it's a shitty cashout for 5 bars
grim lion
Cool cool
We've also broken 2000 messages in this thread
@oblique forum how's this look for the exported notes? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tNqS3qTu3KFgtpWYETBnjT1FQdBUWx3M1oZWBrPkt4o/edit?usp=sharing
grim lion
The link should let you comment, so you can put in suggestions that way
past panther
ok nice
grim lion
I don't know it
grim lion
Hmm which category to put that under
grim lion
We really should have a category of "you hit 5HP in the air in the corner"
past panther
yeah
grim lion
It's crazy how many options there are out of it, and how often we get into that situation
grim lion
@past panther for that SA2 blender combo, that has a safejump with portal pressure at the end of SA2. What other options are there that don't go for the reset?
grim lion
Lemon's
blender 5HP xx SA2, L spin, M spin, what can go after the M spin?
Lemon did 5LK (framekill) j.HK as a safe jump
But surely there are other routes
past panther
he does 5lk cause you can t accidentally get two of them like with 5lp but it's the same
im not sure there are other routes honestly
i doubt there's any way to keep the juggle going
grim lion
No low option?
past panther
ohh from the safejump?
grim lion
Oh he does low out of the safe jump
grim lion
2LK (portal activates) is how it killed
grim lion
Could you do something like PDR 6MK or 2MK to high/low mix out of the final spin?
grim lion
or is safe jump the optimal result out of the M spin?
past panther
hmm, not sure on that one but i don t see why it would be better
also that's not a safejump
it's just a fuzzy
grim lion
What does fuzzy mean?
grim lion
What is instant overhead?
past panther
so when you block something standing, you can switch to crouch block but your model is still standing for some frames
they re theoretically crouch blocking but practically their model is still standing
so the overhead hits
fuzzy setups abuse this by having something else juggle right after you hit the overhead
since generally you would get no payoff from them
except for a j.lk worth of damage
past panther
no
then portal pops
he went for low because he thought ayer would block high expecting the fuzzy
it was a read
grim lion
I need a flow chart
grim lion
Sure
oblique forum
https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1M79fHfQS1rboa/d1337U4MUtHX?invite...
Didn't know this one either
oblique forum
@grim lion added a bunch of stuff there 😄
past panther
@oblique forum check your dms
oblique forum
When everything goes according to plan
oblique forum
@grim lion here's an example of what i was talking about the other day
I expected a launch and then Dr
past panther
you just cancelled too early
you can cancel the first hit or the second hit iirc
@oblique forum
grim lion
How sure are you in that? Because I couldn't get a first hit cancel
From supercombo, second hit whiff against crouching opponents and first hit is not cancelable
That's so weird. Second hit doesn't deal damage but lets you cancel anyway?
past panther
that's interesting, i remembered it that way too but the clip clearly seems like first hit cancelled yk?
i wonder what fully cancellable means
grim lion
No, second part of the move goes and then is canceled
oblique forum
you can cancel the first hit or the second hit iirc
Yeah this is what we were talking abour
oblique forum
How sure are you in that? Because I couldn't get a first hit cancel
I couldn't either
But this has happened a couple of times
Maybe fully means for specials/sa?
But yeah this happens usually in this scenario when I'm trying to whiff punish with it
Maybe the PC is what makes this possible?
grim lion
Do you have the replay ID?
past panther
possibly?
i ll go in and test it out now
okay boys
i tested it out
found the spacing to make it consistent
you are indeed empty cancelling the second hit
if you don t DRC there, the second hit doesn t connect at all
i recorded it
oblique forum
Aha
past panther
@grim lion @oblique forum
oblique forum
Ha
past panther
@shy vine did you come across this? why does it happen?
oblique forum
Such a weird thing
past panther
it s a very specific spacing too
oblique forum
Why would the first hit connect and the second not? Feels buggy
past panther
yeah also if i just let it rip like in the second part you can see how far away they are pushed
oblique forum
Yeah
So, 6hk isn't that good for some whiff punishing when at the end of the range
past panther
i think for gief sthp, your sthp will be by far the best option
i don t really whiff punish with 6hk, either 5hp, 2mp, or 5mk
or 5lp/lk
shy vine
the 1st hitbox hits an extended hurtbox
2nd hitbox doesn't reach far enough to hit the body
past panther
why does it cancel though
like i would get it if it were just that but you get DRC for a weird reason
shy vine
that would be easier to tell if i saw your buttons
past panther
<@110987944981991424> here's an example of what i was talking about the other da...
.
this is what happened to david in ranked that led to me testing
shy vine
it drc'd cause he hit MP+MK
past panther
well yeah but the second hit didnt connect and it s the only one that s cancellable no?
that s what i was asking
grim lion
Some moves can cancel only on hit/block, some can cancel always
grim lion
6hk apparently
shy vine
you're saying the 1st hit isn't DRCable?
past panther
i mean I went and tried it a lot of times
grim lion
Unless you can prove otherwise
oblique forum
I also tried and failed
shy vine
could be a weird script situation
past panther
FAT says only the second hit is "fully cancellable" but im not sure what that means
shy vine
since the way moves are programed, sometimes it goes into different scripts to resolve the button
oblique forum
i think for gief sthp, your sthp will be by far the best option
Yeah, i use 6hk against gief HP because if i mess up the spacing the two hits breaks the armor still
While 5hp if it hits the armor tanks and I get PCd
past panther
Can you DRC on crouch block?
if they get hit the first hit of 6hk will force standing
so if they block no
grim lion
We're seeing second hit whiff and still be cancelable
So on crouch block second hit also misses
Does it cancel still?
past panther
First hit on standing toggles the cancel flag?
i think it's more likely this
grim lion
Wacky
oblique forum
Btw the burnout SA2 combo is the one from combo trials? Or a variation of it?
past panther
nah it's different
shy vine
i do level 2, st hp, dash, st hp xx hp portal, step back a little bit st HP xx DI, DR HP xx DI
oblique forum
Nice because i can't get the trial one consistently haha
shy vine
in the corner you don't need to step back, you just do HP xx DI, DI
oblique forum
I'll try that one out then!
shy vine
if the opponent is at 2 bars, you can do level 2, st LK xx DI, HP portal, whiff cr LP for a safe jump into high low mix
or level 2, st HP xx DI, whiff cr LK OD portal jump HK
past panther
the trial one is needlessly hard for less reward
grim lion
@oblique forum what does 6HK xx PDR xx BNB mean? Is it a parry drive rush (not a cancel) or a drive rush cancel out of 6HK?
Also what does HM mean?
oblique forum
<@379754404150247424> what does 6HK xx PDR xx BNB mean? Is it a parry drive rush...
Should be 6hk DRC xx BNB (crHP, etc)
Should be High medium P
grim lion
what does that mean?
grim lion
Can you explain the jMK section for the bnb?
"You can also jMK before the 5HP for a little extra dmg", no 5HP in the bnb section
oblique forum
When you do heavy spin in the corner, you can juggle with jmp
Then when you land 5hp spike
It was supposed to be in the bullet point above explaining it doesn't work in the corner
But smh formatting got messed up
So option one is heavy spin jmk 5hp, option two is heavy spin medium spin 5hp
grim lion
What about the "Then PDR 6HK xx Spike for extra corner carry, and if this puts in the corner, do the above"?
oblique forum
On the BNB combo, if you don't do 236mk after heavy spin, you can PDR 6hkxx spike
grim lion
The structure of this section has gotten completely confusing
oblique forum
And if it's close to the corner after 6hk can h spin again, jmk 5hp blender
Indeed haha
I'm not on PC now
But can try another pass tomorrow
grim lion
What about the 2MP 5HP part?
I'm basically taking your notes and fixing it to match the rest of the document
oblique forum
That one I'm a bit confused why I wrote 🥲
Can you do that instead of the PDR 6hk?
Remove that bit and i will look again
I liked your doc and started one for cammy as i learn her now 😄
grim lion
I saw that
I'm glad the format is useful
What is counter throw oki?
Do you mean after throw oki?
or throw tech follow ups?
oblique forum
If they block on corner you can
oblique forum
It works
grim lion
"C/PH"?
grim lion
That's not a good shorthand
oblique forum
Ch/PC is better ?
grim lion
CH/PC is better
oblique forum
I'm glad the format is useful
Yeah, the spreadsheet is too much to me
And hard to look in the phone
Since i play from the couch on big screen i don't use a laptop for that
Only the phone
grim lion
Spreadsheet isn't enough is why I made this doc
grim lion
All the suggestions should be brought in now
oblique forum
Nice! How's the grind going?
grim lion
I'm so close to masters in SC2
currently 4076 and I just need 4200
So not much sf6 recently
oblique forum
Åh nice!
oblique forum
Need such a chart for sf
grim lion
SC2 has really good community created tools
things like aligulac, sc2pulse, and sc2replaystats are amazing
past panther
When you do heavy spin in the corner, you can juggle with jmp
for notes, this is specifically in the spacing where you re too far for M spin to juggle correctly but not far enough to where you should just do dash st.hp
grim lion
Can you elaborate?
past panther
what part do you need me to expand on?
grim lion
The three sequences, and when each one is used
They all start with DR 2HP xx H spin, sometimes you j.MK, M spin, or M ghost
Is it just - faceplant wall = M spin, slightly further back = j.MK, way further back = M ghost?
grim lion
And what are the associated contexts?
past panther
it would be easier to show really. it's all based on what you wanna spend and get
and distances from the wall
grim lion
Could you structure it as - at these distances here's the optimal resource free option, and if there is a resource investment available include that for those distances?
So like
1 - mid map
a - free route
b - 2 bar route
2 - anywhere the wall is in sight
3 - licking the wall
past panther
ok so it d be like
wait fuck it im gonna record them
some of them share categories
so i gave up halfway writing them
grim lion
At some point I'm gonna make a giant whiteboard on something like miro and just have the combo routes all chaotically explained
past panther
yea we can make a big flowchart thing on miro
grim lion
"This is a human brain on JP"
past panther
okay done
so i found a good solution
i recorded what combo I do nowadays for each half square distance difference on the training mode map
if that makes sense
i ll compile em in a sec
also I recorded a common sequence I do in my games, since I tend to go for a different H spin combo midscreen because I'm pushing the corner very aggressively nowadays
since good players will work very hard to not get there
okay @grim lion
i got it
so
i did it in one take and i diiid mess up one of the combos 3 times in a row lol, just as a heads up
cause it s very manually timed and i ve mostly been playing blanka recently
so here
the first vid is me showing the flowchart I do sometimes
grim lion
Gonna take me a few days to translate that into my notes
past panther
yeah that s why i prefferred video ngl
grim lion
Why does lord venom go for h spin, ghost, portal instead of h spin, ghost, spike, portal?
This was vs Juri
is it jump forward dive kick with the spike portal can weave past the portal and gap close easily?
past panther
is it jump forward dive kick with the spike portal can weave past the portal and...
wut?
ohh you missed a "cause"
grim lion
I think I rewrote the start of that sentence and didn't connect the later bits
But yeah, why no spike ender to that combo?
past panther
oh, yeah it makes sense, usually she can just Dr back in your face and portal whiffs even if you do it manual cause it doesn't autocorrect at her speed
so prolly a more meaty portal
grim lion
Ok that makes sense, prioritizing control over damage
past panther
yeah, making sure portal is actually a threat
since basically anything you do juri can punish full screen unless it s a preemptive thing like M spike expecting DR
grim lion
sometimes even that because dive kick stalls above spike range
grim lion
100% hit rate in my games I swear
past panther
i usually punish it with crlp stmk xx m spin to be sure but closer you get even better stuff
grim lion
If you want to see JP annihilating ken's drive rushes, check out Naumen vs Jaccy in CPT Japan top 8
So many great checks
And heavy use of drive reversal on the 2MK drc
Also SA1 to check dragonlash, that was silly
Apparently Jaccy is a Kimberly main who played JP for this matchup. Dude's secondary was insane
grim lion
@past panther when you end a light block string with 5HP as a spacing trap, you can't really be buffering anything out of 5HP because if they're throwing DI out to stop spin you get hit. Do you hit confirm off of the 5HP?
The window seems super tight
grim lion
You die to DI there
oblique forum
If i can afford
I don't think 5hp is hit confirmable like that, unless you get a PC 🤔
grim lion
I've seen a lot of people who like to DI when you're mashing lights at the end of the light range so when you finish with light spin, they kill you
And if you mix up and do 5HP xx ghost, you still die
grim lion
burns 35% of a drive bar on block though
oblique forum
And if you mix up and do 5HP xx ghost, you still die
Yeah, i think it's situational. If you can afford taking a DI or the DRC potentially into nothing, go for it. Worst case you're just back to neutral if you don't buffer anything
grim lion
Unrelated 2HK is just plus enough in the corner for a nearly perfectly meaty command grab
Brian F had some setup around using it that was much better on his recent video, I should probably learn that instead
past panther
You die to DI there
DI is a big risk they take. if I see they press DI before my 5hp then i just don't go for ghost next time until I see DI again
if they DI after your 5hp you beat di
also if you do sthp xx EX spike/ghost it beats that DI too iirc
and both are plus so you get to push offense a bit more
fluid juniper
I noticed a lot of the JP discussion on this server happens in here. Hope you dont mind a fellow JP player hoping into this thread.
If you watch the capcom cup qualifer yesterday I am sure this moment stood out for you all too:https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxB6SXYBbPLCfCvrS0JDYMxFsKEMsj4LPZ?si=FJF9VYcwL7jWkLuu
How practical do you think this is? even if they get hit (which like who wouldnt) it doesnt even look like you get that much more dmg compared to a regular option, though admittedly I have not labbed i yet.
oblique forum
Our old dude isn't doing that well
Damn this looks cool haha
So cool it looks improvised
fluid juniper
is there a sideswap combo that starts with j.lp after teleport? maybe it was spaghetti but it looks too clean imo, unless he is just a situational awareness god
past panther
that's a reset for sure
and it seems practical
the usual one you would go for is this:
but it s more expensive
it's obv 6 bars alltogether
past panther
is there a sideswap combo that starts with j.lp after teleport? maybe it was spa...
j.lp just air resets but i wouldn't be surprised if that's a legit left/right tbh
by the way did you lose your original discord account?
fluid juniper
yes unfortunately
past panther
dayum
i remember you had the black creature pfp
you still in the 1600 1700 mr range?
past panther
i never zoomed on it xd
still cool
did you make it? lookd like it was made in Procreate
fluid juniper
actually whoops, I made a updated version some time ago
and yeah, I did draw it. I am not the best at 2d drawing tho, I perfer 3d scuplting.
Anyways, I havent been playing ranked so idk about MR, but I got top 48 at dreamhack which was hype
past panther
nice man! I haven't been doing any mr grind at all, still taking different chars to master
trying marisa rn
halfway D3 so far
after I get my 5th one i'll just focus on blanka probably
fluid juniper
I am still really enjoying JP, and have been getting pretty serious about practicing. but there is still a lot to learn
past panther
am also enjoying Jp i just find blanka a bit more fun and with JP it gets to be a lot of the same thing at some point for me at least you know?
i'm still gonna be playing as a second
fluid juniper
I can see that, especially if you enjoy being more proactive blanka seems like the pick.
Overall I am super happy with SF6's balance so ppl can actually play characters they like
grim lion
@past panther is this accurate?
past panther
hmm, i wouldn t do that against ryu even tho he has a tatsu
it s such a gamble for him that im ok with eating a tatsu every now and again if he takes the risk of taking 50% for it
but against fast DR like juri/dj then yes
or against kim that has run slide and tp
those options are scarier to me
past panther
<@181487530661773312> is this accurate?
the rest are accurate, yes. fjump j.mk isn't riskier per se, it will just take you a bit to understand when you should go for it in terms of spacing u know?
but i get the wording
past panther
well yeah again it s a thing of practicing the route and getting the timing good. same with the DI sideswitch with OD portal
j.mk is the same timing there as it is here
grim lion
I just replaced it with easier/harder
past panther
good
past panther
honestly you re good at making these, mine wouldn t be this clear
grim lion
It's cus I'm an idiot, I gotta write it so I can read it :)
past panther
ELI5 type beat
boys
i wrote out something useful so I will paste it here too
"What also helps is to think about what your win condition is.
for example
when I was marisa, when I was going for something risky, my thought process went something like this.
Okay, he has 2 bars of drive gauge, so my sa3 will put him in burnout and corner him. he also has 0 super meter so he will have no reversal. Even though you were at like 80% health, i knew marisa damage was high, so my mind went to this option.
I have to get ANY hit and confirm it into sa3, from there I know my autotimed attack and I can do a blockstring into DI, and then stun corner combo to get the kill
so even when you are losing hard like you are 20% and they are 90%, the way you have to think about it is, what would have to happen for me to win this round? and how can I maximise those chances? sometimes that is done by taking more risks, other times it s done by being more safe if you know the opponent likes to take risks.
so as an example, say they are 60% health and you are 10% health and knocked down in front of them. at that point you have two options to get you close to the win. you can wake up with SA3 if you think they will be greedy and this will leave you at an advantage or at least equal, or you can block on wakeup if you think he expects you to do something risky (since he would also think that you have to do something risky/drastic to win the round at that point). so knowing this you would instead choose to wake up with crouching medium kick or something to check him shimmy-ing your super that he was so afraid of
in this way, this game is a big mindgame between you and your opponent's expectations"
grim lion
I think the biggest buff JP could use is just making his weird combos more consistent. Kakeru has lost multiple critical games off of it dropping for being in the wrong pixel.
But also his stuff just not working properly is basically built into the design. Cammy can spin knucle through a grab
Losing the scuff would be a little tragic
fluid juniper
I would give up a lot of stuff for JP's ghosts to be real projectiles
Is there a use for 236PP that I am not aware of? Probably the move I see the least often and I am 80% sure most of the times I have seen it were misinputs XD
that or sweep, dont really see many JP's go for that unless it's a hard shimmy read
past panther
not really. I kinda use it sometimes to extend my pressure since it's +2 but that s about it
it's actually the least used special in the whole game lol
arguably the only 90% useless one
spend 2 bars for....worse shit
mainly that the diff between 2 bars on that shit or 3 bars on drc is so big
fluid juniper
Gotcha.
Overall kinda impressive that they have given practically every move some purpose or niche. 236PP stands out because they did such a good job everywhere else
past panther
yeah
i only see 236PP on modern JP cause it s his sa1 autocombo
HK HP xx 236PP, sa1
it s just worse than doing hk hp sa1 tho
cause 2 wasted bars
fluid juniper
for jump ins with j.hk, I find I annoying that sometimes I am only +10-11 on hit because I pressed too early so my st.hk doesnt come out. I am wondering where i should look to improve. Should I try to delay the j.hk so that I am always plus enough on hit, try to react when I think I hit high, or maybe just ditch st.hk and just do cr.mp on hit which sacrifices dmg and SA2 conversions?
I feel like I am just pressing too early, but getting reversaled out of a combo suuucks
past panther
i always press it pretty late but you can just go into b.mp mp if you re not sure and you keep the sa2 possibilities
since the route is the same after sa2
for the win i go pretty often for stuff like crlp stlp DRC crlp b.mp mp SA2 into a command grab reset
fluid juniper
past panther
sthk crmp is a pretty easy link if you get it down. I use it a lot especially in the sa2 corner conversion
if you re too far you should def go for the TC
since it whiffs very rarely if the sthk hits
fluid juniper
fair, If I want to get better I gotta start improving stuff I currently am afraid to go for. I am good enough to start to recognize these things in match I think, I just gotta try it a bunch and build it into my plan. I can't be avoiding free dmg becuase of stuff like that.
past panther
yeah definitely. i personally just started going for it even if i was droppin em. eventually you re not gonna drop and you will also skip having to adapt it from training mode to ranked
fluid juniper
I gotta get back into the right mindset for improving. I found myself thinking "I am good enough, I can just not learn this" and that's not the right mindset
are these options out of SA2 legit still? or have bettter routes been found
also, is there some kind of gameplna document this is from? I saw this and was impressed
past panther
yeah curiosikey is writing it
past panther
https://twitter.com/Mark_FGC/status/1672050791065194496
i ll look in a sec
hmm, never seen that, but i don t see why not
no patches made after all
fluid juniper
true, what lvl 2 stuff do you usually go for?
past panther
usual bnb route with hk, hk hp H portal hk hp L spike H spin that I adapt in the corner for od portal oki
or command grab reset
or the corner sa2 juggle stuff
for instant overheads and safejumps
that’s mostly it
fluid juniper
ah is this all in that sheet?
oblique forum
I think the doc is missing the corner one
fluid juniper
could i have a link to the doc? couldnt find it by scrolling
past panther
-finish the TC in high/low either with the TC or ghost (can be mashed on/dp tho)
-throw
-crlk crlp
-stagger to chip drive
these are the ones i can think of rn
past panther
ye
like
sthk sthk etc
doing heavies to chip drive cause they re scared to press or parry
grim lion
@fluid juniper if you have any suggestions for the document, you can either put it in the doc as a comment or let me know here and I'll try to add it in
oblique forum
Oh yeah won my first set on Master with the leverless
I guess the training wheels time is over
past panther
yeah that s only off of DR tho. from normal ch light you get jack shit
i usually use stmk/crmp in these situations cause im afraid i ll drop and im only losing 100 dmg
hearty hill
this is just what I'm looking for.
fluid juniper
I meant more generally, just recognising when cr.mk or st.hp counters or punish counters.
Tho in that video I think he went for cr.lp due to how close they were/reacting to juri DR
past panther
I meant more generally, just recognising when cr.mk or st.hp counters or punish ...
yea def
crmk is very important there imo
to react to ch/pc
cause the difference between ch and pc is stlk and crmp
fluid juniper
yeah, plus distance matters so one more thing to consider
past panther
yea
past panther
yeah if you re too far it s better to just sthp and do some block mix
grim lion
JP is so cool when fully optimized, but it's crazy difficult to do
oblique forum
True, but yeah reacting to this is hard!
I can at best react to a crMK CH when I'm in the corner
Because that's where all my head is at
oblique forum
With big help from you mate 🤝🏽
past panther
made a small update to the doc
wrong ghost strength in the amnesia throw combo, also added the first part of the amnesia sideswitch that I remembered
i just don t remember the rest
cobalt plume
Stuck in D4 😦
Would anyone be able to have a look at a few matches and give a few tips on how I could improve?
oblique forum
Sure! Can you put it on yt?
cobalt plume
Yeah I'll upload a few matches this evening and post tomorrow
oblique forum
Cool!
cobalt plume
Thanks !
cobalt plume
yea sure send an invite
past panther
yoo i can play too if y all don t wanna run the mirror
past panther
very, just know if you block the first part of the ball in sa2 and try to super the second, you WILL whiff, because blanka doesn t really have a hitbox when he rebounds in sa2
oblique forum
ahh good to know
past panther
ye
u can amnesia tho
sometimes, when it s not a true string
others can t do shit, cause DP whiffs
oblique forum
Sent inv @cobalt plume
cobalt plume
It appeared but then went
oblique forum
We can do one mirror and one against my shitty secondary
oblique forum
Ggs @cobalt plume
cobalt plume
thanks mate ggs!
oblique forum
I will send a dm later with some notes!
shy vine
are you guys using the midscreen fuzzy setup
cobalt plume
Funnily enough Cammy and Marissa are the two characters I want to learn besides JP
shy vine
like most of the other ones you probably only want to use it when the opponent is burned out but it's good to have available
cobalt plume
which one
shy vine
HP spin, MK ghost, Level 2, whiff b MP, whiff jump forward MP, whiff cr MP, HP portal, dash, jump forward HK
oblique forum
Funnily enough Cammy and Marissa are the two characters I want to learn besides ...
They are fun! I'm focusing more on Cammy now that i got to master, Marisa it has been ages since o did something more serious haha
But you can see my execution there is lacking
And only have the very basic comboa
shy vine
basic combos are fine with cammy
oblique forum
I only have lplplp m arrow crmp h arrow HP h arrow basically haha
past panther
HP spin, MK ghost, Level 2, whiff b MP, whiff jump forward MP, whiff cr MP, HP p...
bro whaat, so much whiffed shit
cobalt plume
aye need a video of that heh
Don't know how many of you have seen this but I watch and re-watch the videos regularly https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRpzGMCvEp2W_enPfgfqlyzUdBlmXHX4_
shy vine
oblique forum
This looks so random haha
cobalt plume
I think I've seen BK or Brian_F do something similar but always forget to go back and look in the stream replay
past panther
https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1M32yFPWSc4bLx/lxhGvgcVDt3d?invite...
holy shit that s so good
grim lion
@past panther I added in your changes btw
past panther
great
@shy vine you ever use this sa2 corner route?
seems like a bit more damage then the regular sthk crmp xx portal one for one bar in exchange
cobalt plume
Add H spin, PDR 2MP, 5HP xx M spike to document
does more damage than H spin, forward dash, PDR 6HK xx L spike
2269 vs 2486
past panther
woah, never seen that tech, but this is about corner carry not damage
how s that looking?
oblique forum
Which reminds me, we need a session for Oki after SA3.
I will collect and add there
JP has so many options that this doc is getting handy haha
past panther
mainly dash up oki and portal oki
brian f started using a mix after dash up iirc
so he doesn t spend bar for oki
ok i looked into it @cobalt plume and that option seems just plain bad
because the PDR 6hk xx L spike can be done anywhere on the screen, that combo you mentioned only works at the same range that dash PDR 6hk xx M spin, 5hp xx spike works at, and it s like 600-800 less damage than that
or at least i couldn t get it anywhere that wasn t close to the corner
if you got a clip of you doing it I'll stand corrected
cobalt plume
not sure what you mean
past panther
i mean this combo that you sent, in my experiments, only worked at the same range that a more optimal combo worked at
the combo you mentioned it s worse at works at any range outside of the corner
so it s valuable for corner carry
grim lion
@cobalt plume 2MP does not cancel into 5HP btw, I fixed the formatting
We're not Juri SA2
past panther
haha
anyways that s a good one to adopt
i wonder if you still get dash DR crmk oki
is that consistent i wonder? since H spin bounces differently at times
oblique forum
i wonder if you still get dash DR crmk oki
You get that after spin ghost spike?
past panther
after spin dash PDR 6hk xx L spike
i did dash dr crmk
and it hits meaty if you delay it a bit
oblique forum
Åh! TIL
cobalt plume
<@239853862071042048> 2MP does not cancel into 5HP btw, I fixed the formatting
thx, I thought I changed it but guess not
shy vine
the nice thing about the dr f HK xx spike is how late the spike hits
so you are more plus than usual
this knockdown looks like it should be +44 or +45 something like that
so you're not too minus on a regular portal
cobalt plume
anyways that s a good one to adopt
BananaKen does it quite often, that's where I got it from https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2025882569? around the 1 hour mark here
grim lion
Usually right click copy at current time
fluid juniper
There is too much jp tech 😅 . everyday I wake up and there is another setup in here
past panther
man watching cpt japan kakeru doing some super fuckin weird shit
what was super cool was he was entering sa2 from lights a lot
so lights xx sa2 stmk jump over sthp xx H portal, sthk sthk xx spike, H spin into stuff
he was getting like 1 counterpoke or interrupt and getting sideswitch and setplay from it
oblique forum
It has two hits, regular gladius has only one armor
Od gladius is two hits though, so it doesn't work there
So it's a bit situational due to ranges, but works for when they charge regular gladius I'm close range
grim lion
what does this mean?
Hmm, that's a duplicate of the line above it
past panther
Od gladius is two hits though, so it doesn't work there
can always cancel it into amnesia
but it s risky to use
if the first hit doesn’t connect on gladius
goodbye lifebar
grim lion
Clip of the move - https://clips.twitch.tv/AttractiveCrazyChipmunkPastaThat-TvLIgpbfDbscVPDo
it's very manually timed, I think it's not worth it unless you're legend
so easy to drop
past panther
yea i mean
i think it s okay if you lab it out
all of his shit is sorta manually timed anyways
grim lion
Like the 2MP can hit and the 5HP can whiff, or the 2MP can be slightly to early and whiff, or you can accidentally hit down slightly early
past panther
like I rarely ever miss 5hp in the corner regardless of distance cause you get used to it
my main issue testing this is i was doing 2mp too early
and not connecting 5hp
cause i was too far
grim lion
The window is so slight
and you can't pre-input or anything, the moment you hit down, it stops the forward movement
shy vine
Oh yea I like that
grim lion
?
past panther
the combo i presume
@shy vine what do you think of kakeru basically spending sa2 whenever he can?
i see he gets it twice a match pretty often
seems good
grim lion
You can roughly build 2 SA bars per round
It's way way easier if they hit wall slightly though
Or even are just at the wall
because 2MP can't push at that stage so 5HP hits easily
shy vine
Yeah I love using sa2 right away
You need to be very aware of how you play the meter game though
past panther
yea
is there any combo that just straight cashes out on damage on sa2 juggle with no setup after or anything? just straight milking every single hit point you can to close the round
shy vine
On the juggle?
Midscreen I think something like hp spin, mk ghost, od spike xx level 2, hp portal, jump forward dash mp spin mp spin?
past panther
On the juggle?
yeah on 5hp juggle
past panther
Midscreen I think something like hp spin, mk ghost, od spike xx level 2, hp port...
that s cool to save
shy vine
Maybe something like
past panther
Midscreen I think something like hp spin, mk ghost, od spike xx level 2, hp port...
@grim lion add to docs XD
midscreen sa2 cashout
shy vine
Lp spin, portal, mp spin, lp spin, then do something after the portal pops
past panther
Lp spin, portal, mp spin, lp spin, then do something after the portal pops
i see, so like the OD portal fuzzy one that you do but instead of going for setup you use the portal pop?
shy vine
Yeah exactly
shy vine
If you're on early scaling
A level 1 combo might get pretty close damage wise
Since level 2 kills the scaling of the rest of the combo anyway
shy vine
He meant corner
Midscreen st hp is usually departure situation yeah
And it's usually just od spike into spike or something lol
grim lion
What's the guard breaker SA2?
Where you start it on block and want to just get damage
I think it's 2LP, 2MK, 2MK?
but I dunno what to do after that
grim lion
I get it's well intentioned but "into w/e" is the most useless note for writing this document
past panther
lol
into either M ghost H spike at range or 5hp xx spike in the corner
it s freestyle lol
grim lion
It's not though, there are realistically three optimal routes at max out of it
One for damage, one for oki, and one for portal/control
more based on location varients of course
this accurate?
Do we have a side switch combo btw that doesn't rely on SA or amenesia?
past panther
so whenever u get H portal you can do sthp xx DI right after and the portal will juggle and leave you time for another DI in the corner, or DR st.hp or f.hk xx DI if a bit further out
this is good to know if you re freestyling a combo
cause you can always route into it
like whatever bullshit from sa2 hits, you can do shit like sthp xx H portal sthp xx DI, PDR sthp xx DI
grim lion
SA2 is so weird, the route into it is always super basic and it's the route out of it that is total chaos
grim lion
DI just went through my command grab
I would like a refund
This is very funny, but would it have chipped if they'd just blocked?
not sure why the video quality is so shit
past panther
lol
yeah it would have chipped definitely
he coulda just
you know
jumped and won the round XD
he was tryna be a crackhead
buffering sa3 waiting for a ghost
grim lion
how big is the chip for SA3?
grim lion
what's that look like on the bar?
past panther
that was def enough
grim lion
Mine doesn't have units
past panther
none do, that s like 6% if i had to guess
or 7-8%
maybe
anyways def less than 10%
grim lion
How do I deal with Ken? I get hit once and lose the game
past panther
welcome to ken
past panther
how I deal with him is guess when he s gonna throw and amnesia, try cross him up when he shimmies, perfect parry low qcfk, perfect parry/DI dragonlash
past panther
Guiles run me over too
against guiles i cant help u lol they are such crackheads
i usually beat guiles by running my offense first
grim lion
I get hit once and take 80% in pretty much every matchup
grim lion
total confusion
Get thrown 6 times in a row and the one time I try to do something about it get punish countered
grim lion
Never just as a default option
more as a prediction
I've taken more damage delay teching than it's saved
I got punish countered 3 times, denied it once
in the last game
past panther
then another question burns
do you just not delay tech cause you're afraid of shimmy? do you keep delay teching if you get shimmied? etc
grim lion
cobalt plume
it's very manually timed, I think it's not worth it unless you're legend
I'm D4 and can do it consistently, it's difficult at first but becomes quite easy quickly.
cobalt plume
tru tru
on an unrelated note, I played Pingutaro the in Ranked the other day
He's using Ken because his JP is so high ranked, he only plays the same 2 people every time lol
What are the must-know option selects we should be using?
past panther
delay tech, delay jab, perfect parry DRC on fireballs, also there's a PP/amnesia OS that im not using
that's about it
cobalt plume
Whats the delay jab?I've been practicing PP on fireballs and the PP/amnesia OS
past panther
delay jab beats tick throws with no DR and shimmy
same timing as delay tech
also beats some options clean like rashid cyclone mixes on block become fake if you delay jab
also some rekkas
shy vine
Normally you delay jab earlier than you delay tech
cobalt plume
alright thanks
past panther
Normally you delay jab earlier than you delay tech
ah bet, it s subconscious at this point so it s hard to tell i suppose
my bad
oblique forum
delay tech, delay jab, perfect parry DRC on fireballs, also there's a PP/amnesia...
Which one is the amnesia? Doing did mp mk l/HK ?
grim lion
It is?
oblique forum
I know two selects with amnesia
One is for reversal. I go for DD mp mk HK and hold all
If i mistime it a parry goes out
And on safe jump i press HK and then DD hk mk
I need to find out something good to use after that though
shy vine
updated your doc a bit for you @grim lion
oblique forum
I usually just step forward stHP xx usual stuff
shy vine
f HK xx MP spin into HP
past panther
updated your doc a bit for you <@110987944981991424>
<3
shy vine
with all stuff i've told you about
leon
what happened to trickle down coaching
fucking reagan
shy vine
no i don't care man i'm just messing around
i updated some level 2 stuff and cleaned a few things up and added some routes
also if you guys want to help me test something
the regular amnesia against DI side switch was weird for me yestesrday i think it was a range thing?
but it should work against all characters at close range at least
the question is are there any characters where their DI leaves them further away even point blank?
past panther
how do you want this tested
shy vine
idk ideally somebody would just know for sure that all DIs leave them the same distance 
it was probably where the DI started actuall now that i think about it
probably should just go with the cr HP combo that doesn't side switch
since if they're too far you can't get under
this is the side switch i'm talking about
i guess distance post-DI changes based on how far the DI starts
seems obvious but i didn't realize how much it would impact the side switch
oblique forum
Yeah, it's the controller learning curve i hope
shy vine
5 2-0 win i mean
but MR can change easily as you get more comfortable
so you don't need to worry about like, grinding or anything for it
oblique forum
5 2-0 win i mean <:lul:430336672958513162>
Basically what happened
But on the other direction
I keep missing my AA and DI inputs
Because it didn't become muscle memory yet
shy vine
@grim lion the combo and routes stuff would work better as a map
shy vine
like a mindmap
it would save me from having to answer any JP questions ever again
i'll help fill it in and review it but i don't want to make it
grim lion
We've talked about that format before, but nobody has actually put in the time
past panther
like a mindmap
i ve seen your scribbles bro i ain't understanding shit from that 🤣
shy vine
nah this is real shit
obviously digitally it would work better tho
also that one is super incomplete do not reference
grim lion
I'm still not sure if I'm gonna include the opinions stuff you've added
grim lion
pretty much anything written in first person
shy vine
Burnout combo, removes 3.5 bars, 4.5 if started from counter DI: 5HP xx H Portal 2MP xx DI DI
I use HP, dash HP xx HP portal, walk back a tiny bit HP xx DI, dr HP xx DI (or just DI in the corner)
oh like this
grim lion
I also have to re-write most of your modifications
shy vine
yea
grim lion
Just to keep it following the standard everything else uses
shy vine
that's just a different combo that does more damage
Almost unblockable setup using SA2 (often for just getting some extra damage to close out a round)
Any cancelable normal into SA2 on block, then 2LP, 2MK, 2MK, H portal, 5HK tc HP xx L spike, H spin (most of t
this comment is more just
a counterpoint to calling it almost unblockable
i added a few setups that really are basically unblockable since the high and low hit like 2-3 frames apart
grim lion
Doesn't it have a high and low hit at almost the same frame?
Which is the one that does that?
shy vine
this one there's a bit of a bigger gap
grim lion
I know brian f was showing one with that
shy vine
i added of them
the throw into level 2 empty jump cr mk
and the one where you do HP xx portal juggle to end a combo then you do target combo xx level 2, cr lp xx pop portal, cr mk
both of those i hvae never seen anybody block
the full screen level 2 portal teleport HK one is too
it hits within 3 frames for sure of the low
or the reset on hit where you do st HP, jump LK (high so the combo drops) cr MK or something like that
during level 2
cr lp cr mk cr mk is good too though cause it's hard to block and it's a true string
it's just not as guaranteed as those toighter ones
grim lion
Put it in there as guard breaker setups with notes on difficulty and frame gaps and I'll rewrite it to match the standard
past panther
the full screen level 2 portal teleport HK one is too
isnt that one a bit fake
like they can jump out at a point
shy vine
yeah but it's in the doc
grim lion
I like how I'm the one managing the doc and I still can't hit the BNB regularly
shy vine
Good work
oblique forum
coaches dont play
I'm very good at telling others what to do, not at doing myself
grim lion
How do projectile supers trade?
Like does JP SA1 beat or lose to Luke SA1? What about Guile SA2?
past panther
luka sa1 beats almost everything. guile sa2 projectiles lose even to regular OD projectiles
i think on FAT it will tell you how many projectiles a projectile super eats
fluid juniper
Am I bad or is this quite the overstatement? I find I am often unable to get cr.p 5p 5p to work. At this range it's whiffing and cr.p 5p hits from like twice that range
grim lion
yeah it is
fluid juniper
cr.p 5p hits from here
grim lion
If I had to guess, 5LP is maybe 20-50% longer?
Like 1 and a half pushbacks extra distance
fluid juniper
hitboxes dont really tell the whole story, since it's mainly about the # of "pushbacks" between you and your opponent when you hit the first one.
Either way for like 200dmg I dont find myself risking it in match on purpose too often. tho if I get a hit point blank I probably should
grim lion
Yeah if you're at absolute max range of the 2LP, I don't think 5LP 5LP will work
the question is where does it start working
fluid juniper
My meatys are really wack rn. Mainly I am just manually timing DR st.hk if I dont have portal oki. I noticed there is not a dedicated "oki" section of the guide. I get that there are a loooot of situations to consider but something based of how + you are might be good
oblique forum
I wonder if there's an autotimed DR crMK/fMK in the corner...
I noticed that the basic dr HK after stuff doesn't work too well when they catch up with it
grim lion
@oblique forum links to discord don't work for anyone not in this discord, and will not work long term. Can you rehost the video on something like youtube?
oblique forum
Sure will do!
cobalt plume
Finally D5 lets goooo (to bed)
shy vine
Letsgo
@past panther this setup works midscreen BTW https://medal.tv/games/street-fighter-6/clips/1O06ElL1862H6s/VgMrLKdz8mUE?invite=cr-MSxSQXEsMjA0NDQ2MDAyLA
The weird one lol
I think it works on quick rise too but it's a little weird
Looks so stupid but it's so good
fluid juniper
How do I manual portal activate mid combo? I'm getting screwed by random pops and I know you can avoid those
past panther
just cancel into it
it s timed in instances like
H portal, DR crmk, crmp xx portal activate
H portal, sthk crmp xx portal activate
grim lion
BananaKen (and I'm guessing more pros, just watching him now) uses lows really well to open blocks
I should try doing that
past panther
crmk is a super super good button
grim lion
I'm talking about 2LK
past panther
also defaulting to starting lights strings with crlk is very important
also crlp crlk crlp type strings
past panther
people usually let go of down back after they block the first hit
cause you walk out of microwalk throw range that way
so it checks backward movement
grim lion
He's also so good at confirming PC LP into a medium
Dude is just funny, he put his vtuber avatar as his official photo
cobalt plume
Still reeling from him losing. Du got to him big time and crumbled 😔
fluid juniper
Whats your thought process behind waking up OD amnesia vs lvl1? Is it just your drive meter?
past panther
level 1 beats meaty jab
so it's mostly that
also if i see a move that i can react to like dragonlash / spin knuckle oki, I'm not gonna amnesia, im gonna lvl 1
grim lion
After SA3, is dash forward 6MK meaty enough that 2LP links out of it?