Draft

[lofty wigeon]

these are the ubers that were given if it helps

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lofty wigeon]

so it does look like i only get base

i was wrong

[olive halo]

Well you have a better uber than the guy with lugia and kangaskang

[rancid kestrel]

Giratina certainly wouldn't have been in my top tier selections, for sure. Someone just outright gets all Arceus forms? Wack.

Yeah, you definitely got a shorter end of the stick here, it's not totally doomed, some of these 'mons are either more one-trick, limited, or otherwise are manageable as opponents. You're definitely able to win against most any of these if not all of them, but some of your opponents are gonna have better starting positions than you.

[olive halo]

Nah I think it’s just arceus bug

But still I agree not totally doomed. Get a good Tera mon, get something to eat fairy types and you will do great

[lofty wigeon]

how important is spin since i don't really wanna run Defog on on my ubers mon? are hazards important in ubers or just busted power is the move

[rancid kestrel]

It never hurts to have multiple options for removal, especially given how valuable Giratina is. I think you'll find it'll happily run Defog most weeks, but you'll definitely appreciate another consistent removal option - you have plenty of options in NatDex, so it likely will come naturally.

[jade solar]

well at this point there's no use of brainstorming

his first 2 just not care of every chaos that i can pull

my defensive core can't fuckin take the bullshit zacian-c + FUCKING SHELL SMASH LEGAL MEGA BLAST

ALONG WITH A RILLA FOR GODDAMN TERRAIN PULSE

i'm beyond pissed at this bullshit

[olive halo]

Hi don't mean to bug you when you're crashing out, but you realize that's just 3 free turns right? First Rilla needs to enter, then it needs to u-turn/double to blastoise, and then it needs to shell smash. Are you going to sit around twiddling your thumbs for 3 turns? /gen. Run a mirror herb, attack with something super effective and play around the fact that you know they're gonna try and do this. For example, when rillaboom enters you can go torn and click nasty plot and with grass knot you kill ting lu and blastoise (remember terrain) or heatwave into zacian

Give treads a mirror herb for both blastoise and dragon dance gouging as a secondary answer to both god forbid something happens

And if they kill treads in one hit, when you switch in, get this, gouging fire and blastoise are both slower than your mega gallade. That will force them out

[jade solar]

sorry lol just a bit frustrated at how absurd this MU is

[jade solar]

i could try that

[rancid kestrel]

In Draft, there is no auto-lose matchup until the player decides they can't lose. It may be uphill to some extent, but giving up before building or Team Preview is the only true way to lose before the game begins. You have thoughts above plus your own skill and knowledge - no game is unwinnable.

[jade solar]

well i found the mirror herb helps

except....

i'm scared

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[olive halo]

Why would you not earthqueake?

blastoise's defense drops and you get the +2 attack

[jade solar]

grassy terrain is up

meaning eq does less damage

i opted for high horsepower

which did also kill but only 87.5%

meaning i was cooked if it missed the roll

[olive halo]

+2 252 Atk Iron Treads High Horsepower vs. -1 36 HP / 4 Def Blastoise-Mega: 358-423 (116.2 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO ?

+2 252 Atk Iron Treads Wild Charge vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Blastoise-Mega: 370-436 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

[jade solar]

yeah i shld've done this lmfao

[jade solar]

i had a diff calc

[olive halo]

As a rule of thumb, you should never run supercell never run supercell into a team with a ground type//unless you have an accuracy increasing move like coil. Those are really the only 2 situations

[olive halo]

What was the calc? Max hp max defense?

On a shell smash set?

[jade solar]

i think yeah

no

something else

idr

[olive halo]

Not it has to have speed

[jade solar]

it was from a diff MU

prob shld not rely on calcdex a lot

[olive halo]

Yeah

Open up the actual calculator and plug everything in manually

If you're worried about time, don't be. Do you know how long 5 minutes is?

On top of that, you can still calc on your opponents time

[jade solar]

yeah fair

https://pokepast.es/7494bf80fcabad8b

fixed a couple things up

any other changes to account for other things?

[olive halo]

Tera fire feels bad. I get that it's for zacian right? Can you run something else?

[jade solar]

if i run tera ground i'm weak to rilla

so this is kinda my best bet

[olive halo]

Yeah you're probably right

I'm just worried about blastoise getting a free switch, but I suppose it won't with tr and matcha gotcha

[jade solar]

yeah

[olive halo]

Otherwise I'd say you're pretty good and ready to get out there and kill it!! You got this!

Just watch out for a weird ape set

[jade solar]

sure

[jade solar]

ty!

[jade solar]

@olive halo @rancid kestrel @solemn warren https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2351844668-yfjg6d84gr0om4o61re0ocs1y1vs9b7pw

WOOO

MIRROR HERB TREADS THE GOAT

we onto the semis bois

[solemn warren]

nice nice

[rancid kestrel]

The only assured loss is the one you convince yourself of before the game even begins.

Good stuff!

[jade solar]

fax

[jade solar]

ty!

[solemn warren]

the stone miss was diabolical

holy mirror herb too

[olive halo]

Good win good win

[jade solar]

yup

[jade solar]

yeah

that was clutch lol

[ember knot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14vUSfRx5RbWZlE-y4iNVv0n7oE6VcsRzQxI2c6iEqJM/edit?gid=66431182#gid=66431182

Any ideas

for what to pick

im 9th to pick#

then it goes to 16th 15th then back down that way

https://pokepast.es/bccd1f52f1a7eb0e lemme get the ping

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[olive halo]

I’m not the best at low tier but getting a good mega sounds busted. There’s really no such thing as a bad mega in low tier and there’s gonna be none any lower. It’s either get a good mega or none at all

[ember knot]

i want mega absol if i can get

but being 9th itll most likely be gone

I think im gonna grab diancie and alola maro to start it off

for semi tr core

then see where i am

[formal haven]

I would go Araquanid, people underestimate how hard that guy can hit in trick room

Trick room is a lot better in low-tier tho

Celebi is a trap, so avoid that shit

[rancid kestrel]

I count ten Megas on this board, and sixteen players. Mathematically given your position you should be assured a Mega, you should even have a pick of at least two, if you want it.

Don't force getting a Mega if it's something that you're not motivated by. Mega Audino or something, for example, might not match your playstyle or desired approach, so it may not be worth bending your team to fit it if necessary. However, the more Megas that drop to you, the more I think it makes sense to grab a Mega first.

There are a lot of high tier mons that aren't megas, I see Kleavor's already gone. That'll be one more Mega if every single player afterwards all pick a Mega. That isn't a surefire conclusion, however.

Trick Room is a powerful utility to have, and it's not like Diancie is useless without it. I don't know that AWak can do a ton out of it, though. I'd caution against grabbing a 13-pt and 11-pt 'mon in your first two picks, as you'll lose a lot of opportunities to grab top tier threats at the upper end of the board.

Second and third, maybe, specifically in the order of Diancie->AWak (former can function without the latter, but not really vice versa), but even then in a 9-12 110 point pool, having your early picks total out to 24 points feels like you're setting yourself up to struggle to grab stuff like hazard control (Diancie does help with this), speed tiers (even with TR as a tool you need to be speed tiering), etc.

I'm not saying don't go for it, but I do have some worries that TR can be flexible with other setters and other mons, and by gunning for those two specifically this early, you'll find yourself locked out of useful Megas or other powerful 'mons that are going to be useful in every game.

[ember knot]

thanks

i just proposed an idea to the host

since its only 8 battles happening he should do like 2 8 person brackets and itd make the drafting process faster aswell

then like top 3 from each 8 move into a knockout bracket

the idea im kind of thinking of is grabbing mega absol if i can if not then ill go with like mega camerupt + diancie then some speed control in the form of salazzle

[rancid kestrel]

I don't know if I recommend changing drafting process when it's underway, but to each their own! Mega Absol is for sure an amazing first pick. Mega Camerupt does kinda turn your TR side strategy into its main focus, but if you feel confident in your ability to pilot TR, then if it works for you, yknow?

[ember knot]

Hmm I should be fine piloting tr but I don't wanna run full TR I'm sure I can find a way to build diancie and rupt 🤔

Without full tr

[rancid kestrel]

In the end let's see what gets to you (and if the host does change things, I suppose?) once it does - MCamerupt doesn't force TR but it's real slow and it + Diancie as your first two options means that the non-TR side of the speed tiers is going to be weaker inherently by your avoidance of any of the good Pokemon at the top of the field until dozens of them are taken

[ember knot]

Ah ye good point

What mons are good for speed control would u say

Also wdyt abt the tera thing I don't really understand that rule

[rancid kestrel]

Just basically looks like they want to have Tera but don't want it to be too present, so it's just 'mons 4 points or lower and a maximum of 8 points total - so, 4 2 2, 4 4, 4 3, etc. They don't want to ban tera, but they don't want it to be super relevant, either.

Speed control basically means ensuring that your opponent can't easily drop speed boosting natures or Speed EVs. For example, if your two fastest Pokemon are, say, Kilowattrell (125) and Lucario (90), any Pokemon between that "just" has to run enough to get to 307 Speed, which for Base 100s or 110s or whatever is a surprising amount of EVs they get to dump in bulk now.

They have no hope in hell of outspeeding Kilowattrell, but Lucario can never outspeed them even with full investment if they invest "just enough" to get past the 306 benchmark.

As such, you ideally want several 'mons at key benchmarks, or close to them - 90, 100, 110 is a easy-to-remember and fairly consistently useful trio of spaces. Now that can be 95, 106, 113 (in this example, Kyurem + Enam-I + Serp), or something similar, since usually you want to avoid a roughly 15 base speed gap before you start being able to mess with Adamant/Modest natures. There's also value in, depending on your play style, grabbing a Kilowattrell or Jolteon or Barreskewda, something that's gonna zoom past most everything, but those don't usually play into Speed EV accounting.

Not all mons are created equal - if you see your opponent's fastest 'mon is the 110 Alolan Dugtrio or Dodrio, that's maybe a 'mon you don't have to respect a whole ton - you need to be sure that whatever 'mons you have at those levels, you're actually exerting pressure up there. Dodrio + Miltank + Abra isn't exactly super concerning - Dodrio maybe is vaguely threatening but power creep hasn't been kind to it, Miltank can't run full speed, and Abra isn't coming to games.

[ember knot]

oh ive never thought of it like that while building drafts

thats brilliant

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah, it's less about Tailwind and Sticky Webs, and more about, do you really want to be in a position where their Mega Charizard X has no hope in hell at outspeeding your fastest 'mon while also never having to worry about your second fastest 'mon outspeeding it even if it runs Adamant? That's so much more damage unnecessarily taken that could be avoided if you just grabbed something at Base 100 or nearby, pressuring your opponent to run Jolly as a result.

Like, their Charizard really wants to move before your Kyurem (as an example). So it needs Jolly, bc if it doesn't but you do, then your Kyurem moves first. But if you don't have a Kyurem, you instead have a Base 80 as your second fastest 'mon, then all of the sudden Charizard doesn't have to worry about being outsped.

[olive halo]

I know low tier is different, but in standard gen 9 draft, I would say you also need a 120. There’s approximately 6/7 depending on how you could Val/moon since they can comfortably run booster speed

6/7 solid ones*

[ember knot]

yeah i understand it now ill def build with this in mind

[ember knot]

bet bet]

[rancid kestrel]

Obviously, in a TR-focused or even TR-friendly team, things do change, but as a general guideline, the 110-100-90 or even 120-110-100-90 rule of thumb is super helpful every single match basically. Do you need a 120 or a 90 region mon regularly, let alone in a TR-friendly team? Maybe not super so, but it's beneficial to approach building in some manner this way.

[ember knot]

yeah

[valid void]

You should never build around trick room in draft

As a niche option its fine, but as the main thing your team does, itll never work the way you want it to

[jade solar]

Semis MU in the ubers league now. Pretty ok MU imo

[olive halo]

Match-ups not horrible but I’m concerned about them having 2 110s and like 10 flying resists. Your only mon faster is torn. Offensively though your team is good into this. Gallade is good xern is good. Chi yu I’m not sold on, wash looks good enough. You should be fine with some good mocks

[jade solar]

yeah

[rancid kestrel]

• Your opponent has a good top six (not great, but good), then like 6 mons that each individually are not amazing but are situational - NGas Weezing, Webs, whatever Jellicent hell against some physical attackers, etc. I dunno what their usage stats look like but I'd expect like 80%+ usage on each 'mon in their top six.
• They have one Defog, and it's Zekrom. In theory they have Magic Bounce on MDiancie, but that requires some level of outplay. I can't imagine it's gone great for them - what's a Treads Diancie lead? Do they really stay in and get fucking destroyed by an Iron Head or Heavy Slam? Do they let Rocks go up?
• OTOH, they have a bunch of hazards that are reasonable enough to expect, Spikes on Dia/Oger, SR on Rachi/Dia, hell even some of their bottom six can do stuff. Their ability to spinblock if Jelli comes is notable, though, since Jelli can make a meal out of Treads.
• Like Happygate mentioned, they kinda don't care about Flying types. I'd argue that Fairy also doesn't look super great into them either, Jirachi really does need to be weakened before Xern can do stuff.
• Speed-wise, at the very least, aside their 110ers, you should be able to comfortably outspeed most all their team. Scarf Zekrom or Jirachi might be a pain, but their speeds quickly dip after their 110s and a single 100 - Jirachi may not even be able to comfortably invest in Speed in the first place. Half their team is at 90 or below. I guess Galv can come, but even if it does it kinda only does the one thing (set Webs).

• I wouldn't try to get cheeky with TSpikes or Webs here, not when you're facing Jira+Celes+GMolt (and in the back, Weezing potentially) for TSpikes. Webs maybe, but it's a Cutiefly we're talking about. MAAAAAybe you can bring it to bait the Dia opener and then lead ITreads, but that sounds real risky to me.
• ChiYu and TornT both struggle here, IMO. Which isn't great since ChiYu has historically been your Scarfer and you're dealing with some question marks at the top of your speed bracket. It can definitely work, it's not doomed, but it's going to necessitate better predictions to be able to do stuff if you bring it, and MDia kinda needs to be taken care of already.
• Nothing on their team resists Fighting aside Jellicent, go with the blessings of the saints, Gallade.

I dunno what you bring here if you aren't bringing both ChiYu and TornT. Maybe it's smth like, Gallade/Xern/Treads/Rotom/Sinis +1? Maybe there is room for ChiYu, Snorlax doesn't seem great here, Dragalge either, and I can't imagine any of the NFEs are justifiable in this setting.

[lofty wigeon]

not sure what to pick next iron bundle got taken right before me
Tera is 9 pointers and under i'm thinking
Lando I or Mega Gallade

[lean horizon]

in a weird world you can run wild charge/supercellslam(mostly the 1st) for steela moltes jellicent if you don't need the moveslot

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid kestrel]

Mega Gallade is cool, better IMO than Lando I. Is Regieleki tera-allowed?

[olive halo]

Mega gallade very cool but you already have urshifu?

What else is around?

Lando i I do not like

[lean horizon]

imma be honest what is leki doing there as 3rd pick(not counting gira)

[lofty wigeon]

the doc wasn't working and i couldn't check teras so i took a gamble that did not pay off

[lean horizon]

also i agree that tho mega lade is cool you have shifu and glowking so i'd look for something else

ah fair enough, atleast you got some speed control and a spinner/screener

so not the absolute worst

[olive halo]

A hazard setter sounds good here. Giratina spin blocks and urshifu likes opposing pokemon to be soften up

[lean horizon]

maybe something like ferrothorn?

[lofty wigeon]

roaring moon, gouging fire, blazekin are open too

i haven't used ferrothorn so i'm not opposed

[lean horizon]

i'm not sure on ferro but as hazard mon it can add value

not having looked at the board

[lofty wigeon]

Spectrier and darkrai are also open but i'm not sure how good it is to cross types like that

[lofty wigeon]

d speed as a suicide lead feels good too

[rancid kestrel]

Not super great to spend so much on a suicide lead in a metagame with a ton of Defog

[lofty wigeon]

greninja lets me have a pivot with a spikes lead in that case

[rancid kestrel]

I could see Greninja working. Ferro feels better personally as it provides a nice defensive core alongside Gira and Glowking, but Gren as another offensive tool is a direction to go as well.

[solemn warren]

Good choice on Regieleki
I'd say Mega Gallade would be good as seen with that mirror herb Iron Treads critter
Idk what else you'd pick though
But definitely pick Tera for Regieleki it's gonna bust some heads

[ember knot]

@rancid kestrel its my turn to pick

are u free rq

[olive halo]

What’s up

[ember knot]

idk to grab a mega or whatever

[rancid kestrel]

Relink the sheet

[ember knot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14vUSfRx5RbWZlE-y4iNVv0n7oE6VcsRzQxI2c6iEqJM/edit?gid=66431182#gid=66431182

after this pick ill make a draft plan and send it

or i can try make one rn if it helps

[rancid kestrel]

What'd the person before you take?

[ember knot]

oh

mhoundoom

[olive halo]

Are there any other megas left?

[ember knot]

i kinda wanna grab killowatriel but wdyt

[ember knot]

steelix audino camerupt

bannette

ampharos too

[rancid kestrel]

Ampharos Glalie and Abomasnow, as well

[ember knot]

i think ampharos is good

[rancid kestrel]

Steelix is a very powerful 'mon that would fit decently well both on TR (if you're still motivated by that) as well as outside of it. Ampharos is similar, less powerful but some nice utility and a good typing. Camerupt you've already mentioned wanting.

Some good non-Megas still on the board include Lucario, Bisharp, Torn-I, Feraligatr, Gallade, Scream Tail, and plenty others.

[olive halo]

I also like gallade which is also damn edited the message af

[ember knot]

im not bothered abt trickroom as much now

would grabbing killowatriel 1st pick be bad

[rancid kestrel]

Sure. I think of all the Megas available, I'd maybe only really recommend against Abomasnow (necessitates building around it moreso than others) and Audino (wants Regenerator, loses it on Mega).

Kilo would be a pretty bad R1 pick. It's lightning fast, yes, but it is super limited on move coverage and it's going to result in you missing a lot of powerful options. See how stacked the top of the board is, with how many 'mons are within the 16+ area. A 13 point 'mon is not likely to be very high attention for a lot of these people, and even if it does go, there are similar other options.

[ember knot]

alr alr

[rancid kestrel]

Kilo also provides zero benefit to you outside of its ability to click Thunder(bolt) and Hurricane, which can work as a R1 pick if you're, like, a mon with an incredible coverage typing or bonkers stats. Most top-tier mons in Draft provide more than just damage buttons. It's the difference between Garchomp and Regidrago.

[ember knot]

hmm

im down for bisharp

wdyt

[olive halo]

Bisharp is good; it gets knock off right?

I also like gallade and torn here, those would be one of my 3 picks

[ember knot]

ye gets knock

oh shit what 125 spa

and 110 atk

1158

im hella down for torn

[olive halo]

Bisharp is also great because it gets rocks which is very good I think, and kind of hard to find. Torn is my top chose, then gallade, then bisharp but idt you can go wrong with any of them

[ember knot]

i like Torn for 1st pick then

i can see whats left for pick2

[rancid kestrel]

I think all three of those 'mons can be built out into a very strong roster, Tornadus is definitely going to be a worthwhile first pick, though be aware that by doing so, Kilo becomes a much harder pick to justify - not impossible, but you're going to come in here asking about Kilo and get strongly recommended against it.

[ember knot]

alr

idm picking kilo i just thought it was good thats why

ground immune and electric immune and it has good speed tier

[rancid kestrel]

The problem with it is that it doesn't have the defenses to act as an immunity like that - being weak to Ice and Rock both means that the most common coverages on average for Electric and Ground tear you apart.

[ember knot]

oh ye true

that leads me to another question

could tera captain regice be any good

since it has 200spdef and def base

[olive halo]

Also if you’re just drafting regularly you’ll get those anyway. You’ll always want a levitate/flying mon and you’ll always want a ground mon for rocks + eq

[ember knot]

or is it 150

[rancid kestrel]

Off the top of my head, it doesn't seem like a bad captain. I don't remember its movepool contours off the top of my head, at a glance it doesn't get recovery aside Rest which can make it struggle a bit as a wall, but its ability to be a good TC is probably going to be dependent on the rest of your team if I had to guess. At a glance at the 5pt region, I'm not seeing a ton of stellar captains - Electrode stands out, sorta, Komala maybe, Naclstack could be a pain if there wasn't a ton of Knock Off, Muk sorta?

I definitely don't think Tera is going to be super relevant in your league to be honest, especially with a 110 9-12 structure. You're likely able to get 6 Very Good High Point Mons and then struggle to justify bringing the low point picks outside of niche matchup situations. This isn't to say that you shouldn't deliberate it, but that I'm not sure it'll end up being relevant most games.

[ember knot]

fairs i prolly wo nt bother much abt tera

[jade solar]

https://pokepast.es/d455ca7bdbb33eb1

maybe this 6?

having no chi yu makes me kinda rachi weak

might have to bring like twave + covert tom

[rancid kestrel]

Will be a question between Torn and ChiYu, probably. I could see either working, in theory, depending on sets and your own preference and comfort. I could see Covert working on Rotom, for sure

[ember knot]

tornadus -18
bisharp - 18
moltres - 17
hippowdon - 15
iron leaves - 18
tentacruel - 14
hisui sneasle-7
bastiodon - 2
cutiefly -1

@rancid kestrel @olive halo

wdyt of this?

tbh mudsbray might be better than hippowdon

since no sandstorm ability

but who am i to say

[ember knot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14vUSfRx5RbWZlE-y4iNVv0n7oE6VcsRzQxI2c6iEqJM/edit?gid=66431182#gid=66431182

[olive halo]

Do you think you will get both torn and bisharp? Also moltres is popular oh and wow you think you can get 3 18 point mons ???

[ember knot]

lol

just hopinh

hoping

[olive halo]

No shot that happens. You need to play it by ear

You might get 1 more 18 pointer

[ember knot]

i think its nearly my turn again

lemme check

[olive halo]

You should not get 2 more

[ember knot]

3 more guys

then its me

and bisharp was just taken

😢

MIght go for lucario

instead

[lofty wigeon]

i Have 14 points left and need 2 mons, i'm think Hippo (12) points and a cheap tera captain

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lofty wigeon]

my two needs are tera cap and ground type

(regi is banned)

[formal haven]

Same doc or what?

[lofty wigeon]

same doc

oh not the one already posted

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h9WfE7fFeBgJONsBo-HikoCDRDKZs1Gvtit05zjt6oM/edit?usp=drivesdk

[lean horizon]

i feel like you'd want something to hit physically maybe

you only really have urshifu. ferro and gira can but will usually fill other roles

i personally would go rhyperior over hippo(i asume tera points are the same as the normal cost)

oh wait

is 9 and lower only

[formal haven]

Mega Steelix is a shout

[lofty wigeon]

yeah that was one i was looking at

i also only need 8 mons not 9

So Mamoswine is cool and Ursaluna normal are options as well

[lean horizon]

you won't have a tera mon then

with ursaluna

honestly i would say get diggersby but i don't wanna throw you down a rabbit hole(pun intended)

is urshifu ss water or dark

[lofty wigeon]

Dark

[lean horizon]

actually wait you have no fariy type

[formal haven]

Honestly its fine having no tera

Paying atleast 5 for a mediocre mon that can tera aint worth it

[lean horizon]

your gonna want something for dark/ghost(can't have urshifu tanking all those hits), a fairy and a ground likely

[lofty wigeon]

Kelfki , Hatterne and Whimscott are all open

[lean horizon]

hat doesn't help for neither ghost nor dark klefki and whims might be options

[formal haven]

Whim seems like a shout, its a pivot that can also help out with getting in shifu safely, plus you get some extra utility

[lean horizon]

whims is 10 so leaves 4 for a ground

technically

ah shit i gtg now have stuff to do

[formal haven]

Tera Gogaot is always great

Am a huge fan, but its not a ground tyupe

[lofty wigeon]

we do have a 24 hr grace period

i think the only bad pick i've made was leki due to doc issues but there isn't a better spiner bow

[ember knot]

@formal haven

its my turn now

wdyt i should go for

im thinking leaves or lucario

[rancid kestrel]

• Your removal isn't great - Torn doesn't wanna be running it often, leaving it to just Moltres and Tentacruel. Doable, but could be better.
• Your hazard setting is worse. I'm not convinced any of these mons are going to be regularly be able to run stuff, maybe Rocks on Hippo but like, you've got no Spikes, your TSpikes are limited, and your only other rocker is a Bastiodon that isn't likely to come.
• Less relevant, but you have no status moves aside Yawn on Hippo and Wisp on Moltres. Without any means of Paralysis and a single Burn option, you limit your outplay opportunities for stuff like setup sweepers.
• Your speed tiers are alright, I'm not sure folks are gonna be super motivated to outspeed HSneasel, but it's also Low Tier so who knows!

Like Happygate mentions, grabbing as much at the top of the pile might be a touch harder. ILeaves might genuinely be an expensive mon that does fall far, but like you mentioned, Bisharp already went. We'll see what happens, and you may want to adjust stuff based on the notes above.

[ember knot]

can i hear what youd pick?

tbh in the drafts ive played in hazards havnt been a huge role rocks is always nice to have but most games i end up going like full ho and ive never seen the benefit in spikes either since games are rlly fast paced

my teams are usually ho orientated

[rancid kestrel]

I'm no good at theoretical drafting, sorry. ILeaves is something that I would probably not consider drafting, maybe instead I'd be looking at something like Amoonguss? Hippo and HSneasel also doesn't feel motivating to me, HSneasel especially, I'd not be super motivated to get another major offensive-focused piece and instead something that can do better in the hazards gameplay.

In the end you're the one playing the game, not me, and if you don't feel like Spikes are something motivating for you, then maybe you don't benefit from having it. I do think having something else to put Rocks up would be helpful, especially since Hippo's a complex mon in Draft and necessitating it coming each week with Rocks isn't super ideal.

[ember knot]

i see

what are other options like amoongus

ive never liked amoongus

im down to give spikes a try

im no pro

would tinkaton/steelix/mega rupt be good for my next pick

[rancid kestrel]

Well, I'd have picked it for its ability to provide status, as well as Regenerator and a helpful defensive backbone alongside Moltres and Hippo(sorta).

Stuff like Gligar, Tink, P2, some of the Eeveelutions, hell even like Uxie or Sinistcha can provide a similar purpose, though each have their own limitations and such.

I assume by Steelix you mean Mega Steelix, that's certainly an option, as is Mega Camperupt or Tinkaton (as mentioned earlier).

None of these are super great for an HO style like you said you prefer, but I'm also of a mind that specifically building "for a style" is maybe not the most ideal - your opponent can see it coming in the prep phase, and if they're on even footing with you, their flexibility and a more balanced draft will give them the upper hand compared to an aggressive "all out" draft that can't really shift from that mindset.

[ember knot]

lol i was just saying i usually use ho im open to all playstyles

i just dont like amoongus

[rancid kestrel]

200 to 100. Your fastest 'mon is a Volcarona, since Regieleki only counts for the purposes of Scarf speeds. Especially in a tour where other folks have stuff like MLati@s, MMeta, and Lugia, you're really gonna struggle to eat hits from them before you can hit back. Throw in scarfs on stuff like Dialga/Dialga-O, Reshi/Zek, Genesect, etc, while your Base 100 is stuck in Boots, you're going to be outsped by any Uber that can invest in Speed.

Regieleki doesn't cut it, Shifu can run Scarf but really doesn't want to be stuck doing it every single game. That, to my mind, is your biggest priority right now. Not grabbing a 110ish, even a 120ish, is basically putting yourself several steps behind in every match prep going forward. I'd be so worried in your shoes to get anything but a 110-120 that can actually put pressure on the field.

[lofty wigeon]

i see i think i do struggle with speed tiers in general the smogon draft its really hurting me

[rancid kestrel]

No, that's fair, it's just that you have one Burn, one Sleep, and no Para, and you're gonna run into situations where you'd wish you'd be able to tank a hit and status a setup sweeper so that they don't just outright sweep you. In the end, something to consider - it's too early in a draft to be agonizing over minute changes when things are likely going to get sniped in a pool of this size, you've got an overall good/okay plan barring whatever adjustments need making. I'd just not want to be the one figuring out how to plan to take out a Cosmic Power DeoD or Curse Snorlax or whatever without being able to know I can status them. And Spikes are always just good no matter the meta, probably.

[ember knot]

fairs

so the problem im facing rn is what mon to pick 😭

js saying the guy before me chose hisui sneasle

[lofty wigeon]

whimscott does hit the 116 speed tiers

and has piro stun spore for speed control on everything but dark and grass types

[rancid kestrel]

That's an odd turn 2 choice, for sure. At a glance at your plan, both Lucario and Moltres are solid choices overall, the latter does make some problems with type overlap with Tornadus, but it's not the end of the world, Moltres and Tornadus are that good and it's early enough to figure out solid responses to the Rock/Electric/Ice(sorta) angle.

[ember knot]

alr ima put em in a spin the wheel ✌️

[lofty wigeon]

zeraora is also free and i can cut rotom wash in free agency and still get whimscott

[ember knot]

alr picking lucario

[olive halo]

I like lucario more than molt good job wheel

[rancid kestrel]

It's not Perfect, but it's better I think. I like this lineup (-Rotom +Zera +Whimsi) better than the one you posted earlier. 100-116 has Nature problems, since the gap there is large enough to allow for some damage boosting Natures to come into play, but it's not the end of the world and no draft is perfect.

Lucario's a good choice, and between it and Torn, you'll have a pretty strong offensive core to start building around.

[lofty wigeon]

i have 18 points if i do that so , Blaziken,Latios(no soul dew), Greninja, G fire, D speed and mega gallade are also choices

[rancid kestrel]

And these would be in replacement for... Zeraora?

[ember knot]

the guy after me picked tenta

😭 i wanted tenta

pff

[olive halo]

It’s draft that’s gonna happen

It’s why I told you not to get your hopes up with 3 18 point mons

[rancid kestrel]

DeoS has the Regieleki problem. Not really worth the attention, though it does do things it doesn't help you and your draft specifically.
Blaziken doesn't provide a ton of speed pressure, since the vibe people have when they see it on prep is "oh that thing is gonna be +1 before I can even touch it and probably +2".
Gouging Fire is sorta similar, in the sense that it doesn't provide speed pressure for you - it's either slow, or it boosts and then is super fast.
I can see the value of MGall and Latios, maybe a bit less Greninja. Latios kinda has some overlap with Giratina, but not in a super concerning way. I could see all three being useful for you, though like was mentioned earlier, you're kinda lacking a bit on the physical side, so maybe you'd put a touch more thought towards MGallade?

[lofty wigeon]

Mgallade i've never used and i don't have a mega yet

let's see how the wheel turns out

[olive halo]

M gallade I really like. Like a good physical only Val. It’s very cool

[lofty wigeon]

R wash technically

[lofty wigeon]

I miscounted my points and can't get Mgal is Mega Medicham a fine replacement

[solemn warren]

Yeah

Just hope High Jump Kick doesn't miss

You hit WAY harder for the cost of 10 base speed

And a different move pool

[ember knot]

@rancid kestrel @olive halo

I'm thinking arctozolt next mon

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/14vUSfRx5RbWZlE-y4iNVv0n7oE6VcsRzQxI2c6iEqJM/htmlview#

But idk maybe I need rocks and defog first

Defog/spin ofcc

[olive halo]

Arctozolt lowkey bad without snow even in low tier

It’s 55 speed which is bad even for low tier and while powerful, I’m looking at Pokemon like tinkaton, cyclizar, even like gardevour are all really good here, but admittedly I forget the middle of your team. What else do you have besides torn?

[ember knot]

I have torn and lucario

So wdyt for next mon

[olive halo]

Does lucario have rocks? You lowkey don’t need tink then. I like cyclizar with that squad, 121 speed with removal can be special or physical let me peep the board again

[ember knot]

Alr

Idk what cyclizar does I've never used it

And does lucario get rocks

[olive halo]

Oh wait

What’s the complex on cyclizar

[ember knot]

🤷‍♂️

[olive halo]

Is it just shed tail?

[ember knot]

Oh that

Yeah just shed tail

[ember knot]

So should I just go for it

[olive halo]

You can John a bit and wait for what af thinks. But I like getting cyclizar into a good rocker/spiker next pick and then getting like a solid offensive mon and a solid defensive mon and then rounding it out with some bottom mons

That’s what I would do

[ember knot]

I'm In for that what good rocker/spiker u have in mind

[olive halo]

I haven’t looked one sec

[rancid kestrel]

Cyclizar was a good pick. You've got a good primary removal now, plus your 121-111-90 speed tier only really needs something around 100 to comfortably handle speed tier side of things, and 100 as a region is jam-packed in NatDex. You'll find something.

I'd stop trying to grab these offensive pieces like Arctozolt, even something like Cyclizar can fire off powerful Draco Meteors as needed, and Torn/Lucario are likely going to be the ones breaking through opposing teams alongside less-offensive-but-still-powerful pieces like Cyclizar as your roster grows out.

You need to have a plan for setting hazards. It's fine that you have zero setting (Lucario does not get Rocks) by this point, but you need to be figuring out that stuff. I don't have a tool that can easily figure out what's got usable hazards based on the board, but a quick glance at /nds on PS searching for both makes me think about Gligar, Quagsire, Sandslash and Forretress, the latter two can be spinners (and Sandslash can do Tera Captain stuff?)

I wouldn't feel an urgency to grab either right this second, unless your intent is to grab Gligar which may go naturally. But within the next 3-4 rounds, it's probably important.

To be clear, you shouldn't just grab one setter and call it good, but a good draft will likely grab 'mons that have access to either or as "support" - for example (without considerating if your team would benefit from them) Roserade and Garbodor can spike, Bronzong and Seismitoed can SR, it's not unlikely that you'll pick up a 'mon or two with some access to hazards naturally without focus on "being the hazard setter" that say, Forretress might be.

[olive halo]

Af is so wise and cool. That last paragraph is really important and I have internalized why and is trying to push you to Pokemon like those, but the words and verbiage are better than I could use.

[jade solar]

https://pokepast.es/57892f8391dd2f8b

• This Xerneas Set honestly after Rachi falls just runs through their team. Sub + Geo is a potent set here and even Hearthpon can't take things at +2
• Booster Speed Treads cause why not and pretty good mid-game/late-game mon that can get things going/clean things up
• Bulk Up Mllade with that spread can take 1 Moonblast from Dia and DPunch + Sneak always kills into it.
• Covert Cloak Rotom to just status spam and try and slow down his team to make sure i don't get overwhelmed.
• Mixed Torn-T with Heat Wave for Celesteela and ITail for Mega Dia which should always kill.
• Tera Elec Setup Sinistcha which looks good into him, only worry is how it'll fare against Mega Dia.

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

yeah af's advice is clear and right to the point which is why i've relied on here for advice in my ubers league. Adding a mix of my other friend's wisdom gives me a perfect win formula for my games

which is honestly the biggest factor in my performance so far in the ubers league

[rancid kestrel]

• Be careful to not rely on Torn. It'll suck to lose off a miss. Wide Lens could be a fun tech but no Boots is rough for sure.
• What are you getting a second turn on Xern on? Are you expecting like a Wacan Celes with Leech Seed or smth? Or is this like, Sub first then Geo if possible? Just worried that a misplay could result in Xern losing a lot of HP from sub+hazards only to have to switch out bc a surprise happened. But hey maybe it can be used to predict a Mirror Herb Goltres or something!
• I like the MGall set a lot. Given that each week I feel like I open the paste and go :x at it, I'm not sure what that means, haha.
• Is it really a physically defensive Rotom? I guess Oger is scary. What's your answer to Goltres if not Rotom, though? Is it Treads?

[jade solar]

• I know that from many a times, but what else can a man do in dire situations like these.
• Sub is just mainly there because idk what else to slap in the last slot
• Ty lol, was an idea from a friend in a diff server
• I think SpDef is prob better since physdef does not much shit here since all their physical options just hit harder than what I can take, but idk what to do in general.

[rancid kestrel]

That's fair re: Rotom, you're the one doing the calcs and I'm not.

[jade solar]

yeah

will test this team out and see what i struggle with but with the looks of what my friend brings in mocks

prob everything

[ember knot]

great advice tysm

also this made me laugh a lil

whats bro doing

[rancid kestrel]

Bro not taking the draft very seriously.

[jade solar]

lmfao

[solemn warren]

i suppose there's one person that i'm better than

[ember knot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14vUSfRx5RbWZlE-y4iNVv0n7oE6VcsRzQxI2c6iEqJM/edit?usp=sharing

Yoyoyo

Peoples

@rancid kestrel

And

@olive halo

It's my pick again

Defensive mon w rocks I want preferably ground type

I like hippowdon , donphan , seismitoed , mudsdale , quagsire

I'm also a fan of roseraid rn

Then one of those next pick

Acctually I change my mind

I'm looking at my glaring weakness to some random tera blast ice mon

I still fw quagsire seismitoed and foreteress

As picks

[olive halo]

Tera blast ice is bad first off

Second of all, your only real weakness rn is fairy

[ember knot]

I'm lowk forgetting tera is only gonna be used on the shitter mons

[ember knot]

So wdyt of grabbing forretress

[olive halo]

Forrestress doesn’t add anything to your team

It has rocks and spikes yes

But you double up on steel and spin

And in return you get a terrible bug typing with no recovery outside of rest

[ember knot]

Good point

[olive halo]

Question is weezing g around

[ember knot]

Uh idts lemme see

Nah just kanto weezing

[olive halo]

Ah

I like weezing g because it’s a good fairy type that is also a grounded poison and can run levitate to be immune to ground with recovery and has wisp

What are the ground types still left?

[ember knot]

Zygarde 10% torterra flygon hippowdon mega Rupt donphan gligar seismitoed steelix mudsdale quagsire

Piloswine palosand golurk sandaconda

Lol shedinja is there asw

Idk the ban on it tho

[olive halo]

Bleh I think a ground type here is best but i really dislike the low tier grounds. AF might have a better idea, but of those listed I like flygon but it doesn’t fit with your team, and torterra but that doesn’t work either maybe gligar/seismitoed is best. Wait to see what AF thinks. Maybe I’m missing something else as well

[ember knot]

I agree with u asw abt them picks im thinking seis is my best pick but yeah def wait on AF

I have like

3 hours to make my pick

So if af doesn't respond I'll just go with seis

[lean horizon]

if you want a defensive mon with rocks(non ground) uxie is availlable

and then you can take a different ground type without having to force rocks/spikes on that mon

has a big move pool with potential to win games aswell(if played correctly), very bulky with a surprising speed stat, great supportive options like rocks t-wave, can u-turn(healing wish?) little more nice but skill swap

also greatly helps against fighting types for cyclizar and lucario

there is also rhyperior for 9 btw

or piloswine

i'm personally a big rhyperior fan, you'd have to get solid water and grass switchins(and fighting) tho if you'd go for rhyperior

[ember knot]

Honestly not a fan of rhyperior

I would like to grab a ground type incase they are all gone by the time my next turn rolls around

Uxie does seem interesting tho

[rancid kestrel]

I don't have time to pay attention sorry. Uxie's strong and versatile, Seis does good. Don't sleep on Gligar though! Don't take Rhyp if you're not happy with it, you'd absolutely need to be comfortable with it for it to work well for you. A Rhyp played weakly/without faith will not accomplish what it needs to do.

[ember knot]

i lowk just did spin the wheel with gligar quagsire and seismitoed

first to 3 , quag won 1 then gligar won 3x in a row so i picked gligar the signs must be showing

[rancid kestrel]

It's a good mon. Be vaguely aware of an Ice weakness, but that should resolve with proper drafting with time. Don't forget about a 100ish base speed 'mon, as well as something else that can do hazards (even just a secondary Rocker will do). Something else to consider is a lack of status moves currently, you have no way to toxic (TSpikes aside), para, or burn any opponent, which are strong ways of handling setup sweepers.

[ember knot]

i like toedscruel tbh

spore stun spore toxic spikes tspikes

100 base

but thats another 4x weak to ice mon

[rancid kestrel]

The problem with Toedscruel is its ability means it isn't actually a base 100 'mon in reality, it's not a "oh gotta make sure I don't get outsped by that" kinda 'mon, yknow what I mean?

[ember knot]

ye so its ability makes it so spore goes last pmuch always?

unless like neg prio or pos prio is used

[rancid kestrel]

This Pokemon's Status moves go last in their priority bracket and ignore Abilities.
Any status move will go last, basically.

[ember knot]

only other mons that can really do more than 1 of the thing u mentioned is uxie and miltank

[rancid kestrel]

You don't need something that can do more than just one of those, to be clear.

[ember knot]

tbh idm bronzong bwu

wbu

[rancid kestrel]

Uhh, is a secondary rocker, I suppose. Good defensive presence, though it can struggle with recovery. Not a terrible pick.

[ember knot]

could u help me out a lil

ive looked at like every mon

and i dont really see much worth picking

other than like bronzong

and ig delphox typhlosion incin but not sure abt them

[rancid kestrel]

Bronzong's a fine pick, just means future picks gotta focus on the 100 base speed tier and/or status gameplay

[ember knot]

i was looking for mons with hazards

then like other than bronzong

none rlly compliment the team

so prob go with bronzong to help w hazards

then status play

i was looking for wispers and the 3 i said are prob the best ones

[rancid kestrel]

Makes sense to me.

[ember knot]

couldnt find any good twavers

[rancid kestrel]

That's wack to me, surely there's something of value in all of what gets TWave

[ember knot]

i mean like

milktank uxie

pory2

[rancid kestrel]

All 3 of those seem good to me!

[ember knot]

yeah ig

mega bannete

idt its taken lol

Nope it isnt

[rancid kestrel]

I'm less positive on MBanette but it's definitely usable

[ember knot]

hmm

out of these

uxie and miltank get rocks

but i think i can go bronzong + pory2

ah i thought bronzong got teleport thatd be cool

[rancid kestrel]

Sure. I'd super prioritize finding an offensive Base 100 afterwards, though

[ember knot]

yee

if its available ill prob go for

typhlosion

[rancid kestrel]

I see the logic there, yeah

[ember knot]

should i go for pory2 first

since it costs more maybe more appealing?

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah, probably. Easier to find other hazard setters.

[ember knot]

bett

@rancid kestrel

just found out

someone picked pory2

[olive halo]

Then go with uxie

twave rocks good speed

u-turn knock

screens

[ember knot]

my problem w that is

idk bout double psychic

[olive halo]

?

What psychic do you have?

[ember knot]

but ig its no big deal

planned to get bronzong

[olive halo]

Why? /gen

Can you walk me through why you like bronzong?

[ember knot]

cool mon

he gets rocks

and uh lemme see

ye like rocks toxic hypnosis

goodbulk

[olive halo]

.... So does uxie... and it has better bulk and more speed

Well

It gets yawn not hypno

But hypno is fake

My goal isn't to push you towards uxie

Or any pokemon for that matter

What I'm trying to do is get you to open your eyes and not just blindly select pokemon based on if you think they're cool or if me/af/thomas tells you

An important aspect about draft is being able to consistently team build and work with various utility options presented

And, probably most importantly, filling out roles for your team

Drafting is at its core being able to understand pokemon a level deeper than just the core tenants of if a pokemon is cool or if it hits a certain speed tier or whatever surface level ideas of what you think a draft is/should have. It's about using defensive pokemon offensively, offensive pokemon defensively. And I know this reads as preachy but you need to understand the WHOLE of the pokemon you are looking at. Take arctozolt from earlier. In gen 8 OU, for example, that pokemon is a beast able to beat both toxapex and lando, one of maybe only 2 pokemon in the whole tier to do that. But if you bring arctozolt to every match, such as a draft setting, people will know to bring a yache berry on their ground type, wacan berry on their water types, and scarfers to outspeed arctozolt. Pokemon with utility greater than click button and win are the pokemon that have the most success in draft and why Iron Valiant is considered the best mon in draft. Fairy typing, so much coverage for every type, utitlity, special and physical offenses. It's not Iron valiant good let me draft it, it's iron valiant fills rolls that other pokemon cannot provide which allows for greater flexibility down the line where you can no longer find those roles you need like speed, and special offense, and utility

[lofty wigeon]

This matchup has me stumoed, Wake works well in all weather and booster speed makes it super tuff not to scarf my Torn but with tera in place im not sure how well that will work, turning off sun lets drill become the fastest mon around and yeah hippo is a decent answer but it cant slack off on an SD and even without that taking hits from wake is going to be hard esp water attacks.

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lofty wigeon]

i think my biggest way is to play the triple regen core with Rilla but that's kinda hurts with hippo, Urshifu maybe instead of rilla for a late game scarf or band depending on how i like that wake match up

[formal haven]

I mean for purely wake you can just slot AV Torn-T with tera

Honestly I have no clue what your opponent was cooking with that double weather setup, however most of their attackers have some issues with Torn-T. I reckon Hurricane, U-turn, Fighting move and maybe grass knot is a valid shout here. You also really like rocks. Rillabooms priority does insane amount of work here, even with the triple Resist you hit all the weather abusers pretty hard. I would run something that isn't choice locked, albeit Band might be okay. Shifu allows you to play a priority dance with sucker punch against the opponent which helps a lot too. Getting turns from weather will most likely turn out vital.

You could consider rain dance Tenta here, rain dish + black sludge would heal a decent amount even if taking hits.

[lofty wigeon]

ahh yeah rocks just eats Mega Chard

whirlwind could be interesting as a way to force it out

i was also think weather ball on torn. Fire/Ground hit a good chunk of his team and rain dance seems like i'm just letting Wake go wild

[formal haven]

Weather ball in sand is Rock, which makes it significantly worse if you ask me

[lofty wigeon]

that is incredibly lame

[formal haven]

Yeah which means that you hit the mons you want to hit with fire in sun(but they are sand users) and vice-versa

[lofty wigeon]

yeah if it was ground i could justify it being a drill check but not rock

i do like the rain dish black sludge i'm running it on a rain team in vgc and that thing doesn't die

I guess the main thing i'm wondering, is Rillaboom still worth it since im kinda forced into bring hippo

[formal haven]

Why are you forced to bring hippo?

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake in Grassy Terrain: 352-417 (103.8 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Main reason I like Rillaboom here

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill in Grassy Terrain: 491-578 (136 - 160.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Tyranitar in Grassy Terrain: 595-702 (147.2 - 173.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I mean yeah this assumes you get off an SD

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracozolt in Grassy Terrain: 178-211 (55.4 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

I mean those are big smack calcs

And you can EV into bulk since this is what you want to be doing most

Which means even Zolt doesn't kill you easiliy

[lofty wigeon]

Is hippo not necessary to check sun ? or is it to risky to give drill the sweeping chance

[formal haven]

The problem is that you don't check wake, even when removing the sun and dropping the power of Hydro Steam its still a base 80 STAB SE move

[olive halo]

Uh yeah keep in mind that Zard sun is only 4 turns. Sure it’s the best sun setter in terms of damage output but in reality it’s never around for that long. Combine it with a lead that can force it out early and set rocks and suddenly sun just doesn’t exist anymore. I really like av torn here especially if it can Tera into a water type to eat wake hits. All they’re flying STABS ttar and drill are either bad in the sun cause you can click heat wave or remove the sun entirely. Bring Rilaboom for back-up priority and honestly it’s not the end of the world

Then just put offense with a scarf urshifu since their fairy type is also a psychic and does not resist wicked blow

[lofty wigeon]

Okay thanks for the advice i think i was over valuing Chard Y and undervaluing Rilla

Could a SD set with occa berry be neat ?

that way it can survive one hit to start piro

[jade solar]

something better than occa is there

maybe just like

miracle seed to up the craziness even further

[rancid kestrel]

• Weather strategies in Draft can struggle because you can see them coming. The "crime boss level 0" response to that is to dual-weather since you don't know which is coming, but at that point you're half-assing both of them. There's a reason that "Kaif sun" doesnt try to toss in a random Rain duo.
• Their removal is alarmingly bad for a ZardY team. Exca Spin is real (though counterintuitive), Rotom Defog but it's not the ideal forme for it, and Charizard Defog is a "one turn too late" problem. Your primary hazard setter isn't great here, but it's usable for sure.
• Their speed tiers aren't fantastic, because it's two 'mons that are going to be boosting their speed under ideal conditions, though you don't have a ton of ways around that. If they get greedy with SpA Wake or something, a surprise Scarf Dengo could be a pain for them for sure.

• They've got a lot of mons that wanna come, but only so many slots, and one of them has to be for removal. Do they really bring Exca without TTar on the hope that they can benefit from your Hippo? Do they drop the sand angle altogether and rely on Rotom not getting blocked by Dengo? Do they not bring removal/CharY at all? Surely not. Maybe it's STail that gets benched? It doesn't seem all that great into Torn/Shifu/Rilla/Dengo.
• Their hazard setting is okay, but not great. Their only spiker is Gastro, which doesn't feel like a viable option to bring usually since this team needs to be aggressive in limited weather turns. STail or Exca can carry rocks, but it'd probably be STail? Exca's doing too much already. TTar can do it too, I guess.
• They don't have a lot of good Dark resistances. TTar folds to Shifu's second stab faster than a bad poker player, and SWing doesn't have the bulk to realistically avoid the 2HKO. Their grass resistances are all either hard to justify bringing, or can't really withstand a ton of damage.
• Fairy might be good coverage for Dengo, given how many Steel resistances they have. They also don't really have Ghost resistances. A Scarf Dengo might be able to get a surprising amount done, especially if they greed SpA Wake.

[lofty wigeon]

Alright thank you a lot of good info i'll let you know how i do

[olive halo]

Best of luck!!

[lofty wigeon]

this is what i'm gonna run with only couple things
Urshifu hits 354 speed outspeeds everything not named booster speed wake / scarf Scream Tail
Rain dance on Tenta or Slowbro
Would be swapping into Spin on tenta or yawn off bro
Then knock off or u turn for Torn

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[olive halo]

Sorry does your slowbro not need.... ummmmmm the mega stone?

[lofty wigeon]

OH

yeah you're so right

i was debating sending that but thank goodness i did

[olive halo]

No spin I think is fine. you're not that stealth rock weak and yawn is fine

Solar blade is cool tech but probably not worth it

There's no real pokemon you're using that on and hitting that you wouldn't just click glide on

[lofty wigeon]

I thought maybe just for if i think they will switch

[olive halo]

And heaven forbid ttar comes in and you're just sitting there waiting

[lofty wigeon]

Oh Fake Out is there

i should probably just use that lol

[olive halo]

fake out is bad on an sd set, unless it's vgc

Cause you're down 2 attacks

[lofty wigeon]

what's the chances that Scream Tail brings Psy Terrain

[olive halo]

Just about 0

[lofty wigeon]

knock off it is

honestly that's just better if i think a switch is coming

[olive halo]

let me look at rillas moves rq

[lofty wigeon]

Don't worry about it ! My match is starting in like 2 mins and i wanna see how well i did building

can't get better if i don't remember how i messed up

[olive halo]

acrobatics? How does miracle seed work?

oh whoops

[lofty wigeon]

No its 1.2x to grass move

[olive halo]

Yeah my bad

Just run it down mid

You'll do fine

[lofty wigeon]

I wanted to do Grassy seed but it's def not spdef

[olive halo]

yeah def

[lofty wigeon]

Ahh i lost

bad roll left chard at 1 and they got to roost

Scarf wake was able to finish with the one last sun

they also had celesteela but i forgot to put it on the doc

[ember knot]

@olive halo @rancid kestrel

Typhlosion or typhlosion hisui

Hisui is 95 base ( 5 lower) but grants spin blocker

I think hisui might be better since it still forces + speed nature on 100base mons

[olive halo]

Big hisui fan. Like a better typhlosion in my eye

[jade solar]

typh-h is the better fit here

[solemn warren]

I'm also thinking the Hisuian form is better here
Spin blocking, a slightly stronger Eruption, and decent Speed for a scarf user

Also Lucario at 18? Is this ND?

If it is, damn good pick man
+2 Adaptability Close Combat out of that Attack stat has no switch ins barring Ghost types

[ember knot]

Low tier nd

[solemn warren]

Are megas allowed

Wait this is stupid

[solemn warren]

What tiers or is it all of ND RU

[ember knot]

idt its RU specifically

host just added a bunch of random low tiers

acctually i remember someone telling me that he stole the point mons from another server that did a RU draft tour like a year ago

hence why moltres is in it

[solemn warren]

What options are available? Is there a list?

[ember knot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14vUSfRx5RbWZlE-y4iNVv0n7oE6VcsRzQxI2c6iEqJM/edit?gid=66431182#gid=66431182

[ember knot]

@rancid kestrel @olive halo

I have 2 picks left

10 pts

[olive halo]

I would go for both a steel and fairy here. Lucario is a bit of a fake steel as it isn’t using its typing defensively and a fairy because you have no real dragon or dark resists yet. But I can’t scour the board right now looking for the perfect ones sorry

[rancid kestrel]

I would get something within the range of 100-105 if possible. 111-95 is dangerously close to certain thresholds where your opponents may be able to use damage boosting natures, or drop a lot of Speed EVs.
Stuff like Kadabra, Drakloak, Galarian Rapidash, Mismagius, Galarian Linoone, Slaking and Glalie - I just sorted by Speed, went through 105-100, and picked out mons that are within your point budget - didn't admittedly look a ton at overlap or what they might add to your team.

If I had to guess, if I were you I'd probably pick Galarian Rapidash for the reason Happygate mentoned, which would leave you four points for a Steel type - I see Metang, Probopass, Tinkatuff? Alolan Dugtrio's too frail to try that stuff.

[rancid kestrel]

Please use paste links and not screenshots, it's so hard to read any of this... What is this Rillaboom moveset? What's Brick Break for?

If you're gonna run surprise rain dance, Slowbro at least likely has the turns to take a hit and click it - losing Yawn's not great but 4MSS is a pain and Spin's always important IMO. UTurn is good for Torn, that'd be what I'd run. YArd and the Booster duo aren't gonna care about knock.

[solemn warren]

I'll add a bit to this
If you REALLY need the Fighting coverage, use Superpower
Also Solar blade? Are you matching for a Sun team? Doesn't synergize well with Hippowdon
Rain Dance Tentacruel can catch any sun team off guard but, again, you got Hippo for sand, definitely use spin on it instead

[ember knot]

Does galarian rapidash cover the speed tiers u were talking abt asw?

[solemn warren]

105 speed 100 attack doesn't seem all that great...

[ember knot]

I'm gonna go with tinkaton tbh

Tinkatuff*

[rancid kestrel]

Yeah, they matched into a team w/ YArd, TTar, and a plethora of abusers.

[ember knot]

I like that it can get rocks if needed and can twave stuff psure it gets encore too

[rancid kestrel]

Sure, just means you may have a weak spot between 110 and 96 speed which like, isn't the end of the world, but something to consider.

[olive halo]

Tinkatuff is good rapidash g is good i like both of those 👍

[ember knot]

@rancid kestrel @olive halo

The host had some stupid rule about open team sheets so I argued against It I said nothing rude and used no curse words and they removed me from the tour and banned me from the server 💀

Then I was tryna get it resolved with the owner of the server and he said I'm tryna create drama

[olive halo]

Alright

It happens

Just join a new league with a better host

Not much you can do now it seems

[ember knot]

Yeah can u guide me to some draft tours

[rancid kestrel]

https://discord.com/channels/1012506386632032326/1059208070921736192 There's this!

[ember knot]

#unknown 💔

[rancid kestrel]

It's in the Smogon Draft server and is just a list of open advertisement leagues and tours

[misty plume]

https://www.smogon.com/discord/directory

[ember knot]

Oh bet thanks

[jade solar]

@rancid kestrel @olive halo heading into the game in abt 30 min

https://pokepast.es/19b69bf9ce510eb3

any changes i should make?

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

i think i kinda prefer going double dance mllade

bulky feels like i always have to wait for an opputunity

[olive halo]

What's the mu again?

Teams probably fine. Thunder on Xerneas feels like a throw idk what you're facing though

Get rid of supercell on treads and just run wild charge

[jade solar]

thunder's for celesteela

it like

rips after +2

[olive halo]

I'd give covert wash pain split since it gets no lefties heal

Yeah but surely tbolt also rips but 2hkos instead of OHKO

Torn I like and sini is cool

[jade solar]

pain split over which move?

[olive halo]

one of the statuses

especially since you're running into magic bounce diancie right?

[jade solar]

oh right

also

i just realised

strength sap

does a full 360

when against magic bounce

which is a problem

since i can't heal

against dia

@olive halo shld i go bulky mllade or double dance?

[jade solar]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2356113758-g6vehuph64fcg07ku19nxtoge73cdkspw

boys

we did it

FINALS TIME

WOOOO

[olive halo]

gl gl

[jade solar]

ty!

[ember knot]

Gl in finals boss

[jade solar]

ty mate!

[ember knot]

Can I watch u prep

I wanna get good at draft experience is always good 😼

[jade solar]

you can sure

once next week starts i will be doin a lot of my prep here

[ember knot]

Tysmm

[ember knot]

Here? What if ur opponent checks here 😭

[jade solar]

well depends on who my finals opp is

i might not

[ember knot]

@olive halo @rancid kestrel

I'm gonna make my own draft server

Do I need to use Google docs for it because idrk how to do that part

[jade solar]

well

it's a long journey

i suggest if u are new to draft (like me) to wait a bit longer

before creating ur own league

[ember knot]

It's not gonna be Like a hella competitive league it's just for fun

[olive halo]

You’re likely going to need to commission someone to make a doc for you, as making a doc without a base and without knowing what you’re doing will legitimately take a year or 2. That is probably the biggest hurdle.

[cerulean aspen]

You could
A) copy a doc of a league you're in rn (just give credit and ask for permission)
B) I think Smogon has a sample league doc that you can use
or C) be completely crazy and learn sheets then make your own doc (will take forever)

[ember knot]

ty

ill chose option B

[jade solar]

lolll

[lofty wigeon]

would you happen to know anyone that does this ? Ive been looking for a gen 3 draft template for 2 years

[olive halo]

I do! You can find it… am I able to link to other servers?

I suppose I can just send the doc

[olive halo]

Emerald Open is the largest gen 3 draft and this is the most up to date draft board: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AGAB2ldZLPa3BO6we7Ksyk0vVsrLLrFnocURVizvvDk/edit?gid=720588358#gid=720588358

[lofty wigeon]

you're amazing

[jade solar]

well luckily my opp isn't in this server

so u can watch me prep arnd here

[lofty wigeon]

this was my team for the draft league here i went 0-3 what did i do wrong ? I think speed was a big issue for me

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[olive halo]

Um yeah speed is a HUGE issue with this team

You also have like no setters and a bunch of type overlaps between blaziken and chi-yu and palafin and alo. Granted they don't do the same things

But they run like ground and electric coverage and it's just lights for this team

No fairy type is really bad and your treads has to do so much at every time

It needs, rocks, spin, defense, and speed control. Ig uxie can rocks but it doesn't want to

actually yes uxie does want rocks, but like also screens and u-turns and twave

It's a lot more than a rocks mon

[rancid kestrel]

• Chi-Yu, Palafin, and Blaziken are all "give me support and I'll KO a few mons", which means they really don't play well with each other - they provide nothing to a team other than their ability to give out bruises, which doesn't work if half your team is also trying to do that. Treads, Uxie, and Alo can't do nearly enough to support them.
• As mentioned, your speed control was pretty rough here. 106-100*2-95 is pretty behind the curve on good speed control, especially when Treads often is messing with its speed via Booster and Palafin likes to Jet Punch a lot.
• Your hazards aren't too bad, but you really benefit from an extra real removal option (Blaziken is not defogging) and setter that has access to Spikes.

Honestly, the main problem I see is the combination of Blaizken, Palafin, and Ch-Yu. These are hard 'mons to draft in 8mon when they bring no utility, defensive structure, or type benefits (Palafin's Water type isn't real when it can't take hits) and intend to just hit really hard on being set up by teammates.
But their teammates can't really do that all that well, let alone consistently for all 3 of your "resource hogs". Alo maybe can once or twice, Uxie can like, set up screens sure, but generally speaking half of your team are trying to be the main character of a play that, in Gen9 8mon, the play really needs to be ensemble cast.

[lofty wigeon]

thank you

[cerulean aspen]

sent a DM about the league doc thing

(don't want to ad here lol)

[jade solar]

Alright boys, the fateful week has arrived where I partake in my final and most important game of the season. the grand FINALE! It's a rematch of my first week opponent but with a few changes. Would love some advice and insight on the MU. What i've built so far: https://pokepast.es/5c74ebc852629281

• Geo + Sub Xern is my main wincon here in this game, Sub is to avoid a direct confrontation with Ditto which might lose me the game and Moonblast + Psychic is good enough coverage up until Arcanine which if it teras just dies to Moonblast.
• Same old Scarf Chi-Yu set to deal with moon and zama and can do a chunk to Tusk as well.
• Decided to go with a SD + 3a Mllade this time around with Sneak to rip through Gengar and maybe even ditto, and the coverage in Axel and Dpunch is enough for others.
• Covert Cloak Sinis to try and abit Moon and just kill it off with Tera Blast fairy, might change it up to Kebia Berry to live a hit and then maybe revenge off Gengar as well.
• Chople Berry Treads to live a hit from Zama/Tusk and revenge them off with this time a special variant and rocks to slowly dent his other mons.
  Lastly, this time Scarf Torn-T as a little suprise to jump some his usually faster mons and maybe even clean off a weakened Booster Speed/Scarf Moon.

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

Just mainly worried abt Manaphy in this MU

maybe have to change some stuff up

Huge thanks to @rancid kestrel for the amazing support and advice throught this insane journey towards finals and thanks to @olive halo as well.

[olive halo]

❤️ give me a minute and I’ll help look it over

[jade solar]

oki

[olive halo]

Alright chi-yu here looks great only resist is manaphy and flash fire arcanine, but that’s a non issue as they’re bad and don’t resist dark pulse. Just run specs and blast through most everything. Gengar is really scary into your team. Will trap chi-yu after a specs overheat and traps xern really annoying. Xern, also great here into tusk and moon and their low tiers but will struggle into zama and gengar. Be careful. I like physically defensive torn to check tusk and moon semi reliably and nothing on the opposing team can break a Tera water sinischa. Gallade is cool here and should be able to beat a good chunk of things. I like a bulk-up set with mach punch (does it get that, if not vacuum wave) and shadow sneak gengar with like psycho cutter or highest damaging psychic STAB for everything else. Wash is mid here but provides good pivot support and idt treads comes but otherwise this looks like a fun matchup and I hope you win!! I’ll still be around ofc to give advice during the week

[jade solar]

• Specs is like kinda lets me down against Zama and Gengar, making me rely on getting the read right and nuking them on the switch. I like the immediate pressure scarf gives over here but maybe i can use that to my advantage.
• Yeah, definitely have to be careful there.
• Physdef is fun but Scarf is funny and just gets the quick jump on Gengar, Zama and Moon and I can abuse Regen to position properly.
• Tera Water Sinis is good but just makes me setup fodder against Moon and now i'm weak to Drapple, Tera Fairy can easily allowe me to dispose of moon and then with Kebia, i can prob do off Gengar too. Maybe a TR + LO set could really amp things up.
• BU just doesn't give me that quickness into damage but ig i can use it to prevent me from auto-losing to Moon and Ditto as well. No, unfort it doesn't not get mach punch and I am not running Vacuum Wave lol. Psychic stab is not exactly needed here, and i think just BU over SD shld be a fine change.
• Yeah, last slot just pondering over treads or tom, but i feel treads provides more value here

[olive halo]

I am concerned that if you run Tera fairy you will be bullied by zamazenta. Iron defense with body press and behemoth bash destroys your entire team right now. If you don’t run a defensive Tera type against those you’re going to struggle against it. Granted phys def wash kinda works and threatens a wisp but if wash drops from a surprise attack or gets trapped your other 5 mons are sitting ducks

[rancid kestrel]

Firstly, grats on reaching the finals! Wishing you luck, obviously. Even just getting here is a major accomplishment.

• Happygate gives good advice, I won't repeat too much of it - MGar is terrifying, Zama can solo if you've already Tera'd Sinistcha, but that's not a huge surprise given that they are your opponent's best 'mons.
• It's hard to see the defensive backbone on your opponent's team. Gar, Zama, RMoon are all offensive mons, Zama I suppose can be defensive, but even Tusk is like primarily utility not defensive, and then what. Non-Tera Hydrapple? Clefable in Gen9? I dunno.
• No real resistances to Ground, Psychic is a pretty big blind spot for them especially when paired with Fairy like your Xern is.
• What's Covert Cloak for on Sinis? Fairy seems like you're keying yourself up to get wrecked by Zama when it's kinda your best answer to it, and then your item is providing protecting againt... SBall def drops?
• Steel Beam on Treads? What is it outspeeding to hit here? Manaphy? Surely not. Their hazards aren't super real, but surely you don't wanna get destroyed by the surprise TSpikes on Gar and then lose your Xern?

Not a whole lot of thoughts here, sorry, today's a Big Pain Day for me and Happygate's already provided a lot of good thoughts.

[brittle moat]

Could someone rate this team? Its main goal is to out speed

It’s for doubles

I added the elemental pledges for the terrain

[olive halo]

I have to ask. Why are they pictures of your phone

Please send a pokepaste or like a screen grab

[rancid kestrel]

!pokepaste

[misty plume]

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

This command will be removed soon please use !psteams or !shareteam moving forward.

[brittle moat]

It’s because my showdown account on another phone…..

[rancid kestrel]

Also, to be clear, you're in the Draft section of RMT, not the Doubles section. Is this a Draft team? Can you share an image of your full draft and what team you are facing, if it is.

[brittle moat]

Wait a second

Oh…

Sorry

I kinda got confused so I went to the first form I seen

[rancid kestrel]

No worries. Do find a better way to share your team before heading over to Doubles, though. Nobody is going to rate a series of images.

[olive halo]

All good, but please if you go to doubles, make sure you have a pokepaste

[brittle moat]

Alright

which form do I send it in now that I got it in pokepaste?

[rancid kestrel]

https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059655497587888158 This is probably the place you want?

[brittle moat]

kk thanks

[lost cliff]

Whats this for

[solemn warren]

#1320229793270337536

[solemn warren]

First, congrats on getting this far, now onto the teams
His team is fast, not overwhelmingly so, but be careful around it
Webs could help you not only outrun the opposition but also help the Ditto mirror in case he decided to use scarf ditto to RK Xerneas
Chi Yu is a decent Zamazenta check but that's about it
Mega Gallade can once more get something done mostly from Sacred Sword ignoring the dog's +1 upon first switch, even if it's only 90 BP
Sinistcha can get rid of both Manaphy and the fake Mega Salamence with Matcha Gotcha and Tera Blast Fairy respectively
Rotom Wash could see some use in helping against Manaphy and Tusk
Tornadus is a decently good switch in on tusk if Bleak wind Storm doesn't miss (dunno about calcs though), and can also help against Hydrapple if your opponent decides to gamble with Fickle Beam

[jade solar]

so what do i run over tera fairy tho

[jade solar]

• Yeah maybe tera Fairy is not the play but don't know what else to run w/o kinda losing to moon, maybe CM + Sap with Tera Water might be a better set to run now that i think about it.
• Hmm, maybe i can tranisition treads to a Booster Speed variant maybe, just not sure on the moves but Booster Speed like the first time i ran it might be better here.
• Covert is there for Iron Head Flinches and all but maybe not needed, not sure what else to run on it lol
• Yeah, I'll patch that up rq.

[olive halo]

If you’re worried about moon run strength sap and trick room. Realistically you don’t need sinistcha to beat moon you just need it to not get run over. Granted, if you sack your gallade, you might get run over by it. But this mon does not need to kill moon

[jade solar]

yeah fair

https://pokepast.es/d3d13b5fb1029439

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jade solar]

patched up some of the stuff in there

[olive halo]

Looks pretty good. Get a few mocks in and see how you feel, if possible

[jade solar]

alright

[jade solar]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2359061223-1s58g1wcr52is37wvitsr1p8nmunry1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2359064671-4fx2o32ree97lqhimtx12o9utv8ofkxpw

yeah i think this is the perfect team

[mystic sundial]

Who do yall think I should get next zapdos or rotom heat? Or do any of yall possibly have a better suggestion? Format is natdex singles

[misty plume]

New [Gen 9] Draft RMT @olive halo, @formal haven, @ripe pine, @rancid kestrel, @final marten, @spice peak, @tidal frigate, @random geyser, @lean horizon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[olive halo]

Do you have the draft board? The draft board would help

[mystic sundial]

I’ll link it

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nHQRKtRbLNtfuhkZlAVRKj3dvil2QQ1SW1N9lPRg1Xg/edit?usp=drivesdk

[olive halo]

As far as what’s a better pokemon, that’s Zapdos, but it doesn’t really fit your team. I mean I guess it does but where’s your offensive on this team?

[mystic sundial]

So far darkrai

[olive halo]

Yeah darkrai is bad as a pure offensive mon

In a format with dragapult and chien pao and mega latios legal darkrai is going to hit like a wet pool noodle

Get another 17-18 point offensive mon first, I’m assuming low tier Tera only?

[mystic sundial]

Yeah only 10 point and below can tera

With some exceptions

[olive halo]

Then the early fez pick-up is fine and at least makes sense. But milotic is not good and idrk what it’s doing for your team. Do you like milotic a lot?

[mystic sundial]

Initially when I picked I was thinking it’d make a good bulky water for my team, flame orb + marvel scale being able to tank a lot, as well as having competitive for defog or parting shot counterplay. I thought about it a bit and I’m thinking about going for alomamola and selling milotic during grace period

[olive halo]

I agree I think that’s a better decision, but milotic is definitely still useable, you just drafted it early. Okay. Right now what your team has that’s good:
nice speed tiers. Darkrai at 125 is a good start, would maybe like something a little faster with mons like spectrier and chien pao running around, but far from bad. Treads hitting 106 is also nice.
Good defensive back bone. Fez and milotic (assuming you don’t get alom because it’s not drafted yet) are good walls and pivot really well with flip turn and u-turn

What you need:
stronger offenses
Rock and spike setters
Flying type

I’d look to start drafting Pokemon like that in that order. The roles can overlap some but not all ton

[mystic sundial]

What about mega aerodactyl since it kinda fits all 3

[rancid kestrel]

MAero fills all slots poorly. It's okay as an offensive mon, but it's a bad hazard setter and a bad flying type.

[mystic sundial]

Lando T?

[rancid kestrel]

I wouldn't try to find the perfect mon to fit all 3, I'd find 2-3 mons that can reasonably do these

[mystic sundial]

Gotcha

[olive halo]

I do like mega Aeros speed though since it out runs dragapult and everything else but you will never run stealth rocks on it and you will never switch it into a ground type since it can’t do anything back

[mystic sundial]

@olive halo @rancid kestrel ok here’s what I’m thinking for the next 3 slots:
-Regieleki (9 pts but it’s tera banned) or M-Lop (19 pts)
-Garganacl (11 pts), Glimmora (13 pts), or Kleavor (13 pts) ((yes ik it’s bad))
-Talonflame (10 pts), Lando T (16 pts) or Zapdos (15 pts)

I was kinda eyeing Corv too, but I don’t want too many passive mons

[jade solar]

go lop

lovely mon

[rancid kestrel]

Definitely would not recommend Regieleki. I could maybe see MLop, depending on your playstyle and motivation.

What I don't like here is that you have no mons between the jump of 106 to 125 Base speed. That's a huge range that will get taken advantage of by dropped Speed EVs, damage boosting natures, and stuff like that. You can see a writeup for a different person that I did [here](#1320229793270337536 message) going into how Speed creep in draft works.

I'm not convinced that any of these "hazard setter mains" are good as a 'role player', because they have huge flaws and in a metagame like ND, Defog being so common means dedicating 1/6th of your lineup to just getting down hazards (yes IK Garg and Glimm can do more, but at the cost of getting down hazards) sucks when one of the hundred or so Defoggers just swings through later and spends one turn invalidating its whole existence.

It's my personal thought that the best hazards offense is some number of mons (2-3 for 8mon, maybe 3-5 for larger drafts) who can set hazards, but don't need to. Treads, Tusk, and Lando are great examples of these, as they can often put up hazards on top of doing other things.

If I were you, I'd pick up MLop, LandoT, and then find something of value around the 112-115 (with the margins being around 110 to 117/118) base speed camp that can help with the hazard playing, maybe. It's fine if they can't, but you're quickly going to run into problems where a lot of mons are going to be able to drop a nature or a lot of EVs and still outspeed Treads, but are never going to have a hope of outspeeding MLop or even Darkrai. Having something in between will put speed pressure onto your opponents to consider if it's worth the extra power at the cost of being outsped by, say, as an example, Serperior or Starmie.

[olive halo]

A fairy is very wise like always and this is good advice. I like lop on this team a lot too, more so than aero. Good speed coverage offensive pressure always packs a punch and cc is a huge get for it imo.

Also a fairy, are you able to pin that speed tier conversation so we can refer back to it quickly?

[rancid kestrel]

Let me make a new version of it that at least pretends to be not specifically at a person.

Speed control basically means ensuring that your opponent can't easily drop speed boosting natures or Speed EVs. For example, if your two fastest Pokemon are, say, Kilowattrel (125) and Lucario (90), any Pokemon between that "just" has to run enough to get to 307 Speed, which for Base 100s or 110s or whatever is a surprising amount of EVs they get to dump in bulk now. They have no hope in hell of outspeeding Kilowattrel, but Lucario can never outspeed them even with full investment if they invest "just enough" to get past the 306 benchmark.

As such, you ideally want several 'mons at key benchmarks, or close to them - 90, 100, 110 is a easy-to-remember and fairly consistently useful trio of spaces. Now that can be 95, 106, 113 (as an example, Kyurem + Enam-I + Serp), or something similar, since usually you want to avoid a roughly 15 base speed gap before you start being able to mess with Adamant/Modest natures. There's also value in, depending on your play style, grabbing something like a Kilowattrel, Jolteon, or Barreskewda, something that's gonna zoom past most everything, but those don't usually play into Speed EV accounting.

Not all mons are created equal - if you see your opponent's fastest 'mon is the 110 Alolan Dugtrio or Dodrio, that's maybe a 'mon you don't have to respect a whole ton - you need to be sure that whatever 'mons you have at those levels, you're actually exerting pressure up there. Dodrio + Miltank + Abra isn't exactly super concerning - Dodrio maybe is vaguely threatening but power creep hasn't been kind to it, Miltank can't run full speed, and Abra isn't coming to games.

This example was written with a NatDex Low Tier format base. There are many things that play into Speed Tiers additionally, such as Booster Energy, Choice Scarfs, the Speed Boost or Mycelium Might abilities, etc. This is just an example of how you might approach ensuring that you're not always moving second in your battles, straight from the drafting portion of the game.

[mystic sundial]

Wow thanks

[mystic sundial]

Yeah this really helpful

[lofty wigeon]

alola isn't gonna last to grace period

[lofty wigeon]

super helpful thank you

[mystic sundial]

Thoughts on Azelf?

115 speed

Rocks and screens

Bonus being immune to ground

Pretty good special attack stat too

[rancid kestrel]

Azelf has a buncha positives for your team for sure. It's not standout in any one thing, and it's a bit rough that you still don't have Spikes, but it's definitely an option I'd consider. Its defensive stats are subpar but you'd probably not be using it defensively anyway.

[mystic sundial]

The only spike setter I noticed in the 112-115 speed range was Scolipede, but I don’t think it’ll fit well on my team

Speed boost is banned in this league

[olive halo]

Roll compression is nice but it doesn’t need to be compressed that much. Get a 115 mon and a spiker. So long as you have 2 rockers and a spiker you threaten hazard stack and practically force opponents to run spin or more boots than they would like. This is exploitable and very annoying

[mystic sundial]

Ah, I see

Maybe I’ll draft brambleghast as my spike setter

[cerulean aspen]

I would suggest one of these?
It's kind of wild pult val mlade are not taken

rly in natdex you don't care too much about budget until like 7th pick

[mystic sundial]

I was able to secure mega lop

[jade solar]

i got mega lop at 4th pick

this is normal i suppose

[mystic sundial]

Do yall think ogerpon hearthflame is worth drafting?

It gets spikes and my team definitely needs a fire type and something that can threaten water mons

[olive halo]

Heartflame doesn't threaten water pokemon since it has a dual fire typing

But I agree something to hit water types would be nice for this team

[mystic sundial]

Do you have any recommendations?

[olive halo]

I'm checking out your board now

Zeraora and koko are still free

But they don't really do anything for your team

Well koko sets terrain for treads

But you need more than that

If you really want what heartflame does get ogerpon-teal

Heart flame can't run boots or any item for that matter which makes it weak to stealth rocks and it can't boost it's attack beyond the 1.3x that the mask gives

Teal can at least run life orb, boots, band lefties, whatever and can still do everything you want heartflame to do

That said

It might be best to get a good mega pokemon now

You don't have one yet and I don't know how long it will stay that way

Oh wait

You got lop nvm

hmmm idk

[mystic sundial]

So maybe get oger teal after lando and azelf?

[olive halo]

Honestly this team still feels too passive to me. Just keep drafting more offensive stuff

[mystic sundial]

Alr

[mystic sundial]

Im not really sure who to go for besides these

[olive halo]

lando is a good start with offensive mons. You double up on ground types but that's fine

Honestly just get pokemon that you think are cool that hit like a truck

You have a nice defensive backbone with fez and alo

And you have spin with treads (and some good defensive utility)

But you don't win games based on solid defense

Offense wins games

[mystic sundial]

Right

[olive halo]

Lop and darkrai are a good start. Now just keep varying your types, and keep drafting offensive pokemon, pick up a pokemon at 110+ speed and another rocker/spiker

And you'll do great imo

[mystic sundial]

Lando- rocker and flying type
Azelf- 115 speed and pretty good attack stat (also has rocks)
Teal- spiker and hits water types

[olive halo]

Sound reasoning to me

[mystic sundial]

Oh wait

What if I grab Victini

Along with the 3 above

Forgot it has access to like every nuclear code

Or is it not as good as it seems

Wait nvm it’s too expensive

[olive halo]

wdym too expensive?

[mystic sundial]

Yeah if I draft the 3 mons mentioned above I’ll be at 13 points

It costs 16 points

Rn I have 54

[olive halo]

You have 54 points for 5 mons

[mystic sundial]

If I get these 3 I’ll be left with 13

[olive halo]

Alright ❤️

Stick with that original plan

[mystic sundial]

I’m not sure what else I need after getting those 3

More offensive pressure or should I go for support?

[olive halo]

What other support would you want?

[mystic sundial]

Idk

Maybe prankster?

[olive halo]

Nah

This team doesn't need anything like that

It needs to break through teams

You have 2 great walls in fez and alo

Any more and you won't be able to out offense the other teams

[mystic sundial]

What are some good low point mons that’d fit with my team

I’m realizing I don’t really have a anti rain or sun mon

[olive halo]

Why do you want one of those mons?

Just because your opponents are drafting those mons doesn't mean you need one

[mystic sundial]

I feel like I might have trouble dealing with weather

[olive halo]

Question

How does teeny, the person with rain and sun

Beat alo

Seriously, genuinely

[mystic sundial]

Ogerpon

[olive halo]

Then how do you beat ogerpon

[mystic sundial]

Fez and darkrai ig

[olive halo]

ding ding ding

So let me ask again

If the only way for that team to beat alo is ogerpon

And you can beat ogerpon with 3 other pokemon (lop, darkrai, fez)

Why do you need a weather pokemon?

[mystic sundial]

Proto team

Lie what shromlight seems to be building

[olive halo]

Alright let's walk through it again

What beats alo on the sun team

[mystic sundial]

Whimsicott and Bulu, potentially chi yu too

[olive halo]

Assume you're gonna bring an av that match

Because av alo walls chi-yu

[mystic sundial]

Not Bulu

[olive halo]

And what of your pokemon beats bulu/whim

[mystic sundial]

Fez and darkrai 😂

[olive halo]

well not darkrai

But fez has a phenominal match-up that game

They have no steel and poison type right now'

So toxic chain will genuinely win the game on the spot if you position it right

Try to think of pokemon less in the abstract

And more of "How can I beat X threat"

[mystic sundial]

You mean using beat up strats?

[olive halo]

doesn't have to be beat-up directly

But if your fez is always beating bulu and whim

Eventually a moonblast or poison jab or a u-turn will proc toxic chain

And their pokemon will die

[olive halo]

This isn't to say that it's bad to think in the abstract, especially early on when building your team and you've recognized what pokemon are good from the jump

But the hardest match-ups for you right now is going to be plushie and fazy

[mystic sundial]

Luckily I’m not scheduled to fight them

[olive halo]

Since it's going to be very hard for you to break through both glowking and torn and ferro/slowbro

[mystic sundial]

But if I make playoffs I might be facing them

[olive halo]

You should assume that you will be facing everyone, but that's good that you aren't facing them just yet

[mystic sundial]

But yeah both their teams so far are looking pretty scary

Lots of tanks

[olive halo]

And lots of scary offensive mons, see dracovish and chien pao

[mystic sundial]

Yeah

A part of me was thinking of drafting quagsire

[olive halo]

Nah

Bad

[mystic sundial]

😔

[olive halo]

You have a great defensive back bone

[mystic sundial]

Once I get the next 3 mons planned my options will become more limited

[olive halo]

I agree, but that's fine

So will your opponents

[mystic sundial]

I’m just not sure what could help me in case I do have to fight plushie or fazy in playoffs

Is lapras a bad pick?

[olive halo]

You ready? More offense

Let me put it to you this way

Imagine your opponents team like a wall

It stacks up nicely

Looks, sound solid, made of bricks

Sometimes, it may even seem overwhelming

But in reality

It's nothing more than a house of cards

Once something cracks

The whole thing comes tumbling down

Let me give a counter example

Say your facing teeny again

You kill ogerpon but in exchange they get alo from you

Who do you think is in a better position?

[mystic sundial]

They are

[olive halo]

It's a little subject as--yes exactly

[mystic sundial]

Since I lost my rain/sun wall

[olive halo]

Eventually when your defensive pieces are torn away

The whole house falls

It doesn't matter that the big scary offensive mon is dead

The bottom of your house of cards gave out

It's the same thing for plushie

If you trade darkrai for glowking/torn

Who's in a better position?

[mystic sundial]

I am?

[olive halo]

Assuming

You're able to have those offensive pokemon

That can beat out the other mons

Like a house of cards once one goes down, the rest of the team will fall

But you don't have that strong offensive presence yet

Lop and darkrai are a good start, and lando will help

But you need rockers and knock off users to chip away at torns boots, priority users to face off vs chien pao

something for mega altaria because that pokemon is still scary even though you have a fez and treads

[mystic sundial]

I’m not really sure who at 13 pts or below could fulfill that role

Maybe moltres? But it won’t add much offensive pressure to my team

[olive halo]

I agree

[mystic sundial]

There’s Silvally but from what I remember it’s not that good

[olive halo]

Silvally is not good, I like that analysis

[mystic sundial]

Idk the options in the low point are either no offensive pressure or it has some but it’s not a good mon

[mystic sundial]

Is Araquanid good

[rancid kestrel]

Not great, but it adds the threat of Webs and can genuinely do some damage with Water Bubble or take a hit with passable defenses

[mystic sundial]

Do you think it could work with my team?

[jade solar]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natdexdraft-2361062463-qtpfdvoh6kbcvdh5fgwdyn36lc6tujppw

@rancid kestrel @olive halo

we did it

first draft league win

[rancid kestrel]

Do you have Lop+Lando+Azelf at this point?

[rancid kestrel]

Congratulations! No easy task, and it's easy to see your own improvements over the course of the weeks you've come through here asking for advice. You started off facing this team, and if I recall, you lost? I went back to look, and you were intending to bench MGall for Snorlax at the time. Wild.

You've improved a ton, to the point where towards the end I was kinda just commenting on prep doc notes and asking questions about preference-focused topics in your pastes, stuff like TAxel, double status Rotom, etc.

Again, congratulations. No easy task for sure.

[mystic sundial]

I got Lop, my turn is coming up again and I’m gonna get Lando

[mystic sundial]

Congrats!

[mystic sundial]

I also traded milotic for aloma

[jade solar]

yeah, i remember that. time surely has passed since then huh lmao! I feel like i've improved from back then for sure, improving on fundamentals made me get here lol. I am hugely in debt to you for all your support and advice throught the leagues course! Thank you so much!

I'll be back with a different league next week lel

[rancid kestrel]

OK. As a general statement, I would avoid getting too ahead of yourself with picks and stuff, if you put a ton of time into a future pick only to have a prior expected grab sniped from you, you've wasted a ton of time on something now meangingless. That's not to say you can't, but you're asking me about three picks ahead since you don't even have Lando yet. Lando and Azelf are not uncommon selections!

Good trade for Milo to Alo, that's an improvement for certain.

Without remembering the exacts of your league's rules or seeing what's available, I think Araquanid is not the worst. I'm growing more and more concerned at your lack of Spikes, and your removal could use a bit more improvement (2 removal in what I assume is a 10ish size team is a touch on the weak side). I also have vague concerns about your matchup into Electric-types, as something packing BoltBeam or even Electric+Water can be hard to switch into if Fezandipiti has to do other things (gods help if it's a physical attacker!) but these things can be solved or even left slightly weak to be worked around in building/gameplay.

[rancid kestrel]

Will be looking forward to it.

[mystic sundial]

Oh yeah I plan on getting Ogerpon-Teal after Azelf. It’ll be my spike setter and water killer

[rancid kestrel]

Make sure I'm understanding correctly, this is your hopeful lineup?

[mystic sundial]

Yes

[jade solar]

fezan as ur only fairy and tspikes absorber is

is a bit iffy but u have solid removal anyways

overall strong team imo-

wait

where's ur ghost type

ur only resist is treads

[olive halo]

Ghost type isn't really needed imo

Especially with only rocks really

[jade solar]

yeah fair

otherwise very solid imo

[olive halo]

Also congrats!!! btw! Great win played great, great team, crushed it in the match! You should be unbelievably proud

[jade solar]

ty!! yeah i'm very proud of myself

this one hits different because i was 0-3 at one point

and i nearly gave up on it

but here we are

[rancid kestrel]

My big worry still is the BoltBeam side of things, your Ice resists fold to Electric and vice versa. I'm also not super convinced that Treads and Lando can solo-carry the removal gameplay, I'd be trying to find a third-string emergency removal if I were you.

[mystic sundial]

So either another spinner or a defogger

[rancid kestrel]

Depends on the availability. The difference isn't a huge releveance, because it's going to be a 5-or-less point mon that maybe comes once or twice through a whole season, but it's just allowing Treads and Lando to have a touch more flexibility to do stuff like Scarf, 4a+Booster, lure sets, etc. Whether that's something like (examples off the top of my head) Defog Murkrow, Rapid Spin Alolan Sandslash, or even Tidy Up Maushold, it's something that I'd recommend exploring your possibilities of.

[mystic sundial]

Would Driftblim fit well

Gurdurr is available too at 5 points

[rancid kestrel]

Both, Gurdurr especially, really struggle to run Defog. They can work again as a third string emergency choice.

[mystic sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

I might be cooked

I probably won’t get araquanid just so I can try to get something good

[mystic sundial]

Good news, I got Lando

https://tenor.com/view/landorus-gif-13744914906800154741

I doubt anyone is gonna take Azelf before it’s my turn again

[solemn warren]

are megas allowed
are z-moves allowed
what's on the list that you could get

GUH

sorry man that was from yesterday discord tabbed me there

[mystic sundial]

Megas are allowed
Z moves are banned

[mystic sundial]

I can send the link again but this is my planned line up

@solemn warren https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nHQRKtRbLNtfuhkZlAVRKj3dvil2QQ1SW1N9lPRg1Xg/edit?usp=drivesdk

[solemn warren]

as Vague said, Fezandipiti as your only tspikes absorber can be a bit bad but you do have spin on treads and defog on lando
Araquanid seems like a good option to shift the speed tiers in your favour (and it hits quite hard)
darkrai... he's darkrai, he'll get a lot done game to game
Azelf is definetely interesting but i wouldn't say it's a bad choice
what other Megas are available?

oh bruh

the doc

so fifty seven megas

damn it i gotta go