#Old Gens OU

1 messages · Page 33 of 1

vivid kraken
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when i looked a replays for spl i saw players like skype charmflash etc they are using more solid teams but sometimes i see other people using more aggressive stuff

naive stump
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well, each of these players have a strong vision of what its strong and not in the meta

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like, skype believe a lot in zardx, cress, ...

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thus, with the fact he got good results with both of these picks, they become a new part of the meta

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and u can say the same for every strong sm builder

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but there's also the fact that spl is also prone to cheesy stuff since it's a BO1 format after all

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imo, the best thing to do is to pick what looks the most appealing for you

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like, charmflash dropped his teamdump of last spl, but I dont think I saw someone using his teams lol

vivid kraken
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if u use same teams nothing much will happen?

naive stump
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well, it's logic lol

vivid kraken
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ok

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thank you

naive stump
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np

vivid kraken
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ill stick to building for prep

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not aimlessly

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w/o a goal

naive stump
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I mean

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it's fine to build and test without any real reason

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like, as much skilled skype can be in building, he def stole a lot of idea from sm ladder

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and, even outside of that aspect, it took time to properly put down a newer pick

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test it and get a strong idea of what it can achieve

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something like cress is something that u can't randomly conceptualize in a week of prep

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this is why I think, as much as sm ladder overall level can be irrelevant for tours matchs, it's still the best way to test new builds

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and what's very strong on ladder will prob be good for tour matchs (just need to adjust the quality of the results)

vivid kraken
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ic

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so you know what limits your team has regarding certain things

naive stump
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Yep

vivid kraken
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ok

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thanks for the help

naive stump
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Np

stray trench
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Maybe a special attacker?

gusty jungle
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Wrong paste? Rotom Heat is still here

upper plume
karmic geyserBOT
upper plume
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you can also read up on Pokemon that fit well with Mega Gyarados in OU here ^

stray trench
upper plume
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oras isn't significantly different from XY

stray trench
stray trench
upper plume
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it just gives gen 6 Pokemon some move tutor moves

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and makes Volcanion accessible

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but that's it

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and Hoopa as well I guess

stray trench
upper plume
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I think DD Fire Punch Dragonite is a nice touch with Mega Gyara

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since Nite can lure in and KO Ferrothorn

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and Gyara can set up on Heatran

stray trench
upper plume
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Healing Wish Latias is a good partner for them because it can restore them to full HP

gusty jungle
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I know your reason behind Reun but Reun here is just way too much of a momentum sink since this is HO

stray trench
upper plume
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it can be a buffer against opposing offensive Pokemon as well

stray trench
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And I can’t get 1

gusty jungle
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If you want to get into ORAS, I highly recommend joining the ORAS discord server due to this server not really having any dedicated raters

upper plume
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We don't particularly help with those kinds of restrictions; Pokemon Showdown is super accessible and that is why we play on it

stray trench
gusty jungle
stray trench
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But if I ever do showdown

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I’ll note it

stray trench
stray trench
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Genuinely interested

karmic geyserBOT
gusty jungle
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there ya go

stray trench
gusty jungle
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np

stray trench
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I joined the link that said discord

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It is like

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3 channels

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2 introduction and 1 VC

upper plume
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I think many Smogon-affiliated Discord servers require that you have a Smogon account

stray trench
stray trench
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Mobile kinda shit tho

tender coral
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oh yeah mb

olive stag
swift wyvern
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anyone got a gen 9 nat dex team js to beat my friend he beating my ahh to much

upper plume
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Check sample teams

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But this isn't the channel for grn 9 natdex anywho

nocturne prawn
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 5] OU RMT @agile saffron, @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @surreal crypt, @upper plume, @gritty scaffold, @inner mist, @long ginkgo, @worldly walrus, @candid prairie. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gritty scaffold
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probably bug buzz over psychic , roost over gigadrain

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i think drill should have more speed

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like this set Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 32 HP / 80 Atk / 12 Def / 176 SpD / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature

  • Earthquake
  • Stealth Rock
  • Rapid Spin
  • Protect
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you could also use chansey over rotom tbh

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to have like a good scald switchin , is good to do cleric stuff

vivid kraken
karmic geyserBOT
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New [Gen 7] OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

sick fog
nocturne prawn
karmic geyserBOT
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New [Gen 6] OU RMT @azure torrent. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

inner mist
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I would probably change up that Drill spread to make it faster against stuff like Mamo

nocturne prawn
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already did

inner mist
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Oh ok

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Not really much to say honestly

limpid needle
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https://pokepast.es/e24419ccae6c3da2
Gen 7 OU
Not PURELY competitive, it's designed to be annoying/gimicky, but I have won with it. looking to refine it. Biggest problems are Rotom-W, and a weakness to electric/ice

polar mesa
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this is for competetive teams ftr

stray trench
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https://pokepast.es/6bd171bf51e40f9e Gen 6 OU team made around my boy Mega Gyarados
I’m looking for suggestions/changes towards the team, I can also give a breakdown if that helps pweading

karmic geyserBOT
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New [Gen 6] OU RMT @azure torrent. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tribal smelt
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Nor the lucha

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Nor the rotom

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Nor the nidoqueen

stray trench
tribal smelt
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....Where?

stray trench
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Lemme find it

tribal smelt
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Thats like DPp exclusively

stray trench
tribal smelt
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It reads UU here

stray trench
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It was made with UU in mind

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Surely the difference isn’t that big

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Is it?

tribal smelt
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It is

stray trench
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dang

tribal smelt
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Ferrothorn isnt legal in UU nor is Mega gyarados or clefable

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Hawlucha is UUBL as well to my recollection

stray trench
tribal smelt
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As is you just have an unviable mess of a team coming from not checking legality

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Which is a learning process in and of itself but, still

stray trench
tribal smelt
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Dont do this

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Just see if theres an ORAS OU sample for Mgyarados and run ladder games with it

stray trench
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Any idea of where to find 1?

tribal smelt
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Hmm.

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I was checking it myself and didnt find anything

stray trench
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dang

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they done My goat wrong

tribal smelt
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Team options etc

stray trench
stray trench
tribal smelt
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Focus Sash

stray trench
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Got it
Thanks

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https://pokepast.es/1f1421d2ed086688
Here is the new team
Thanks for the link @tribal smelt
I really like the feel of the team, and I love all of the Pokémon in this team, most them being some of my favourites

tribal smelt
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Im not super good at oras but yeah healing wish HO looks more fitting here

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Another oras rater might give you a more comprehensive touch up other than that it looks nice

lone harness
tribal smelt
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Um hm

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I dont play much DPp but I can dm you an invite to the DPp discord for quicker rates

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Full of quick and concise advice to make your team flow better

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Scroll down in the tab for "Past Generation Metagames" and it should be there

stray trench
upper plume
cobalt vigil
# upper plume <@322841115944550402> (sorry to ping but you're the most knowledgeable DPP rater...

No problem, I'm suprised I didn't get pinged by chatot
It's alright, the Double boom combination is a nice way to pave the way for Empleon. However Swampert does not fit here pacing wise (and it makes you weak to Breloom). Replace it by a mixed Jirachi to gain flexibility throught the match (I'd advise to craft the set yourself with multiple experimentations). Put Stealth Rock on Heatran with at least 270 speed, you can replace either Earth Power or Will o Wisp.
Dont put Sleep talk on a Choice Scarf user, you can use surf or healing wish instead.
You may not need Life Orb on Gengar and can try Lum / Black Sludge.

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@lone harness

lone harness
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Thanks!

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any strategy tips? like what i should start with, gameplan etc

cobalt vigil
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Blow up on defensive Latias and Clefable if possible, and don't hesitate to pivot in Latias early to bluff Specs and double switch on the steel /Ttar Switch in

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A way to identify your gameplan more easily is to organize you paste like this Heatran - Tyranitar - Jirachi - Gengar - Latias - Empoleon.

lone harness
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so empoleon usually will come out in late game?

naive stump
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But u are mixing very niche poke into an incoherent structure

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Shed is only stall stuff

limpid needle
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yeah, but Shell Smash+Skill Link+2-5 hit moves on Cloyster is gimicky (and like I said, assuming you could get it to survive, how does Loaded Dice work with Skill Link), Air Slash Togekiss is gimmicky (I run Ancient Power just to be even more gimmicky).

naive stump
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No?

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This is how u would want to use cloyster in general

limpid needle
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but yeah, it does seem to be more 'niche' than gimmicky or annoying. Was thinking of replacing Shedninja with Mimickyu.

naive stump
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Well, it depend of what u want to do with the team

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I dont think closyter is viable in sm ou fwiw

limpid needle
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actually, I HAVE seen a more standard (surf, Ice Beam, Rapid Spin, Explosion) on Cloyster.

naive stump
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Azumarill has a super small niche as a random breaker with z-BD

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That sounds awful

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This is not standard

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In fact, that kind of cloyster would be the actual gimmick

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Rather than the shell smash skill link stuff lol

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Anw

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As I said before, it really depend of what u want to do with the team

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I can help to make ur team as competitive as possible

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But it's obviously impossible if u wish to keep using subpar pokemon

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Or even keeping a bad structure

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For example, gliscor is top tier in sm ou

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But not with that bad set

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And not in that kind of squad

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Togekiss has zero niche

limpid needle
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Like I said, I'm willing to change the pokemon (save for Cloyster and Azuramaril, I like T-Wave then Air Slash or AP). and when I asked on my "All Legendary" theme team, I got the response theme teams aren't really competitively viable compared to non-theme teams. Other than that, I am willing to scrap the entire team and start over.

naive stump
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Because, in your team, it's hard to help since

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Hum

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It's lacking any purpose

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So I can't follow any direction

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Outside of randomly remaking an entire fresh new team

limpid needle
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that's fine. It's not the only team I use. hell, it's really more of a just for fun team anyway. I also have a Sun Team and a Rain Team that I really like.

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rain team

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sun team

naive stump
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Issue is that rain was overused (lol) when sm was cg

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So it's pretty hard to not run

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The real standard rain

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Aka

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Manaphy torn ferro pert

limpid needle
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I do know Ninetails is the default sun setter, but Torkoal is there for Rapid Spin and SR.

naive stump
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Nope

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Sun is not even considered standard

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But, imo, torkoal is way better as a sun setter

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Than ninetails

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Tbf, most "sun" u see nowadays is mostly charizard-mega-y stuff

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Not full sun stuff with torkoal

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Also

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U usually use abuser

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Such as venusaur for example

limpid needle
naive stump
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Well, sun is not "real" sm ou

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So ofc they will not write ressources about that

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Since it's considerate mostly gimmicky and borderline unviable

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Regardless of that

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The good sun never go full 6 fire and cope on any hazards or shit that sit on weather

limpid needle
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the problem with using Venusaur is that Sun boosts fire damage. Grass HATES fire... which is why I always thought of grass as one of the worst types, with Ice (and pre-Gen 6) poison.

naive stump
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Nah

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This is a really bad mindset

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Since venusaur is by far the scariest shit under sun

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Due to its ability and the move growth

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And, even with that typing mindset, venusaur still would drop on any strong fire moves

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With or without the sun

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So it's irrelevant to think like that

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In fact, I think any sun without venusaur is bad

limpid needle
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so replace say Blacephron with Venusaur? And I just noticed my Victini is using the wrong item (can't set up with Choice). Life Orb makes it even frailer, so what should I go with?

naive stump
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Just play the team I sent lol

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I have other funny sun if you want

limpid needle
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and the reason I think poison is bad was first due to a weakness to Psychic (I'm from Gen 1 and 2, don't remember if I played Gen 3 or not but I know I skipped 4 and 5, and quit after Dexit. And the more I learn the more I'm glad I quit. Hidden Power and Pursuit removal, no Megastones or Z-Crystals, and the worst crime, paid DLC on top of an already buy 1 game for the price of 2 or 3). Poison is also weak to ground (which Steel shares the same problem with, but Steel atleast has better resists imo)

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the problem I have with ChariX is the same problem I have with MewtwoX. You're turning a special attacker into a physical attacker. And ZardX wastes that nice 130 SpA... ZardY doesn't have as much waste with 'only' 104 Atk...

upper plume
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Think about it in the inverse

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Charizard has a high special attack

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so your opponent will think that they should send out a special wall to stop it

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but when you Mega Evolve into ZardX, they will be caught off guard by a Tough Claws-boosted Flare Blitz

naive stump
limpid needle
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and with your Lando-T, why the Def? Why not do 252 Atk/Spd and an adamant nature instead if that Spd is there to hit a speed tier?

naive stump
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Hum

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Yh, it's for a speed tier

limpid needle
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so why not go for more offense then?

naive stump
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244 ev

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Once u hit the speed tier

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U have leftovers ev

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So u put them in def since lando scarf is also quite important

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As a pivot to eat damage from most physical attacker of the tier

limpid needle
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I've always wondered, on a fast pokemon, aside from a little damage, what makes U-Turn or Volt Switch better than just manually switching? Or is it the damage?

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and that fire team is missing a Z-Crystal

naive stump
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Outside of the good chip damage, u also forget the case where the dude simply stay on ur manual switch

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U-turn also cover that possibility

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Eh, I think no z-moves is fine on that team

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Maybe z-poison on venusaur but LO is quite alright

limpid needle
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On a slow bulky wall, it would allow your wall to take the hit THEN switch, saving the damage on your sweeper. Sort of how Aegislash works (or worked, not sure if it still works like that)

naive stump
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Hum

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Yes

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I dont get why it's hard to understand the value of u-turn/volt switch on something fast

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Or with good power

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If we took again the example of lando scarf

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While this latter force many switch with eq

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Every team have at least one ground immunity

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So u-turning on those ground immunity is not a bad trade at all

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Since lando still have 145 atk

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Therefore, the chip from u-turn is cool

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Not to say it cover both the possibities of ur oppo either switching or not switching

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So u always have somehow the upper hand in that single turn

limpid needle
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well, I was just looking over Lando-T's moves, and U-Turn is a good option. It's not like there's much better... especially if you're not setting up.

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I was more thinking "Why take U-Turn instead of a coverage move?" But if you don't GET much in the way of coverage (or even a decent secondary STAB), then it's not like U-Turn or Volt Switch is bad...

naive stump
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Nah

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I heavily disagree with that conclusion lol

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Lando has ton of good coverage

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But none of them would be as valuable as u-turn

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U-turn simply cover way more situations

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Than any random coverage or utility moves

limpid needle
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thanks for all the help. you've been most informative, and I've learned a lot. Gonna put that into practice. one last question. On my rain team, I just noticed that something that has a setup move is using a choice item (Kingdra, Choice Band). Should I either replace Dragon Dance on her or change the item (maybe to Life Orb)?

naive stump
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Dragon dance seems hella pointless with kingdra

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Ur already fast af with rain

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  • I would use specs rather than band
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On venusaur, growth is important since venusaur stab are not spammable

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And sun do not boost them

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But kingdra can simply click its water stab without any issue

limpid needle
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DD is more for the attack increase rather than speed. Would have given it SD if it learned that...

naive stump
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And dragon stab if u are facing the few good water immunity of the tier

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Hum

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U dont get it

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Why click DD

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When I can spent two turn instead of hitting with my moves

limpid needle
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Ok, so drop DD. Was gonna compare it to my Cloyster (sets up, then sweeps... actually swept an entire team with that ONE Cloyster, even with a Metagross or Lucario, simply because he allowed me to set up 3 Shell Smashes), but I just remembered that rain doesn't last forever (in which case DD helps if I don't want to switch). Sure, I could hit your Pokemon twice, but if I set up a DD, I then (theoretically, depending on what you choose) would need one less hit.

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sort of the same reason you see DD Gyrados' everywhere (or worse, dual dancing Groudons).

naive stump
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Eh

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Band boosted attacks^2 > DD into one attacks

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DD gyarados on rain exist

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But they used DD because they can cheat speed with weather lol

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Also that low 95 atk of kingdra

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Even at+1, is still fairly low

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If u want to use dragon dance on it

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And this is the case with most of DD users in sm ou

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U really want to use a z-moves on it

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Since, even at +1, most of them still fail to OHKO stuff

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So z-moves lets you cheat on that and grab a kill on something relevant

limpid needle
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so should I replace the Waternium-Z on my Azurmaril for a Dragonium-Z on Kingdra? Which leaves the same problem (even worse, since thanks to Belly Drum slashing Azurmarill's health by half, life Orb recoil would KO it easily) with Azurmarill. Can't use Choice because it sets up with Belly Drum. Maybe should replace Azurmarill with something else completely?

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found 2 replacements. Toxapex or Manaphy. offense or defense...

naive stump
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 7] OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

naive stump
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Unfunny rain but still the standard

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Manaphy is usually a huge reason to use rain in general

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Since, under rain, manaphy simply obliterate many fat/semi-stall/stall

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And the duo core of pert + gren handle most offensive MU

limpid needle
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went with a Timid 252 SpA/ 252 Spd/4 SpDef Surf/Energy Ball/Psychic/Tail Glow Manaphy using Leftovers. Could replace Energy Ball with Ice Beam, though.

naive stump
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Dont wanna sound harsh, but just play the team I sent

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Judging by the discussion we had, I think u dont have the level to properly build

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So it's better for now to step up your skills and learn more about the tier

limpid needle
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just testing your team, and one thing I noticed is Stealth Rocks aren't on Ferrothorn. why not? Is it Ferrothorn's lack of speed?

naive stump
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Pert is already rocks

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And it is quite good as a rocks setter

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Since it force many switchs and rocks is a very convenient midground

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  • it allows ur ferrothorn to run other cool option
gusty jungle
violet garnet
karmic geyserBOT
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New [Gen 4] OU RMT @cobalt vigil, @candid prairie. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upper plume
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Crocune + Tyranitar doesn't add up imo

violet garnet
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yeah new to tier

sick fog
cobalt vigil
# violet garnet https://pokepast.es/4f96fdbf45d02723 Gen 4 OU

You need a dedicated lead in gen4 and your rocker should be in either you lead or your natural follow to the lead. Every team needs to have a gyarados check hence why you will notice Scarf Latias and Scarf Rotom are very common in dpp.
Crocune is bad.
You could try scarf Latias, lead utility Jirachi with rocks and change Tyranitar's set, but the best option for you would be to have a look at the sample teams and pick one :
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dpp-ou-sample-teams.3687351/

Smogon Forums
OU - DPP OU Sample Teams

(banner by Bandkrook)

Hello! This thread is here to archive teams from the DPP metagame and showcase popular playstyles and archetypes. Its aim is to help beginners and intermediate level players become acclimated to the tier, or simply to help anyone in need of a solid team to play.

Please...

gusty jungle
candid prairie
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it is bad

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especially with ttar

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needs to be rain dance at the very least

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but yea that breloom set is not intuitive as a lead

cobalt vigil
nocturne prawn
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 5] OU RMT @agile saffron, @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @surreal crypt, @upper plume, @gritty scaffold, @inner mist, @long ginkgo, @worldly walrus, @candid prairie. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upper plume
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so uh

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you have the sun pokemon

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but everything else (bar maybe exca and latios) don't fit on a sun team

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sun in bw ou is exclusively stall

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unless you want funny darmanitan/victini fun

nocturne prawn
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yay I can restart on half my team

upper plume
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to my knowledge a lot of sun teams have a core of ninetales/cresselia/chansey/xatu

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if not xatu then a spinner

nocturne prawn
upper plume
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I wouldn't recommend IB or HP Fight on Latios

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What is IB for?

nocturne prawn
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coverage and replacement move for surf

upper plume
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I'd go Recover + Lum Berry > HP Fight + Fist Plate

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HP Fight Latios is generally not great

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Bc Tyranitar runs Chople a lot anyway

nocturne prawn
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k

upper plume
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I am also a bit concerned about your ability to deal with opposing Latios

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Rapid Spin Forretress can be considered instead of Excadrill

nocturne prawn
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did that now

inner mist
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I don’t know if Forry is that much better against Latios than Drill

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They are both kind your crutch cuz you don’t have anything else

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Most Sun teams have Chansey to shore up the Lati weakness

upper plume
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Yeah

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That's what I recommended earlier

naive stump
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Not sure how to feel about it

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The structure is fine and I like the offensive core

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Issue is how it seems a bit slower and, frankly, less good than any regular fairy spam HO with maw + protgren

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But I can be wrong ofc

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I still like it regardless

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For the small optimization

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I dont think HP ground is useful on serp

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I would go either knock off or taunt

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Maybe a dumb idea, but you could make the diancie endeavor with max HP

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Rest seems fine

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Hum

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Well, since u are running glare serp, I quite like subswarm volc here

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Then u could put the z whenever u want

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Be it lando or lele

naive stump
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 5] OU RMT @agile saffron, @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @surreal crypt, @upper plume, @gritty scaffold, @inner mist, @long ginkgo, @worldly walrus, @candid prairie. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upper plume
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We don't really help with these draft-style formats here

hallow nest
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Oh, sorry

upper plume
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you could ask in #comp-general for help but ymmv

sick fog
naive stump
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Esp with a whole KB

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Otherwise, this is some classic tias ferro tran balance

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I think if u are using something like clef instead of mag, u can ditch reflect tias

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I get the KB for the rain MU

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But, it kinda feel wrong nonetheless

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With those hazards stacks team, I prefer shit that will immediatly force steel, water or whatever on the field

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Magearna (or any bulky CM user) is a good pick

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(even if I think u would prefer a studier fight resist)

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Moreover, since ur backbone is already quite solid with tias ferro tran, u can accept to reduce the speed control from that lando

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And run a fast spikes abuser on KB slot

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Koko, gren, ...

vivid kraken
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ic

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so latias fog

vivid kraken
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like a defensive one

naive stump
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Yh

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Maybe some bulky SD variant could work

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Could try SD gliscor as well, but I think it will make ur squad less studier without lando pivoting ability

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But it will def improve ur heatran MU

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(which is pretty ugly lol)

vivid kraken
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would hp ground latias be good

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and i have fog on it too

naive stump
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I dont think it's useful

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I rather run surf

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Hit ttar as well

halcyon bay
nocturne prawn
tribal smelt
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This build is legitimately unsalvageable and I recommend using a sample team first, then trying to build a given team:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-ou-samples-thread.3686880/

Smogon Forums
OU - BW OU Samples Thread

Maintained by the BW community.

Hello! This thread is here to archive teams from the Black and White Overused metagame and showcase popular playstyles and archetypes of the current metagame. Its aim is to help beginners and intermediate level players to get acclimated to the tier, or simply to...

nocturne prawn
karmic geyserBOT
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New [Gen 5] OU RMT @agile saffron, @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @surreal crypt, @upper plume, @gritty scaffold, @inner mist, @long ginkgo, @worldly walrus, @candid prairie. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upper plume
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your flaw is that it's trying so hard to be dragmag but you have a tyranitar and a forretress for no reason

gritty scaffold
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Yea preety much

nocturne prawn
upper plume
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DragMag and Sandstorm do not mix

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and your rain matchup is sus

inner mist
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Magnezone is not good Speed Control

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Any Team with Tar + Keld also rocks this team hard since Latios is your only answer to Keld

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Like Tar + Dragmag could work at the hands of an experienced player but idk

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The synergy seems understandable on paper

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But it leads to awkward team compositions

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The issue is that Tar is always competing with Rachi on these teams, Rachi is important since it patches up so many holes on your team, something Tar can't really do

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It's not just Psychic-types you have to answer, but also Outrage Spam too

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Tar can't switch into repeated Outrages

little surge
cobalt vigil
silent edge
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 8] OU RMT @tender coral, @orchid tiger, @peak canyon, @tribal smelt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tribal smelt
silent edge
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Ooo magnet rise, I assume to give zone a ground immunity passed balloon

tribal smelt
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Yes

tropic schooner
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makes the team that much better into lele

vivid kraken
karmic geyserBOT
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New [Gen 7] OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

naive stump
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So, fwiw, I also tried the core of volcanion + torn + tias

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Good shit but I think ur team suffer a bit of being overall frail

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Mostly comes of that torn + toad core

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I actually have a team with that core

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For the set:
-CM modest mag
-AV amoong
-Z-fight torn
-roar tect volcanion
-CM dmeteor psyshock tios
-taunt roost-less gliscor

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With volcanion in balance, u def need some specific idea to mix and keep the spirit of what provide the defensive and offensive profil of volcanion

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Aka it eat the whole world but u can't expect to play any long term matchs

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So ur balance need to be quite proactive

vivid kraken
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ic

vivid kraken
vivid kraken
naive stump
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Yh, I like tios in that specific case

vivid kraken
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he told me treeman was helping him in some tour

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and you make all your teams with him

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or some idk

naive stump
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I did a bit yh

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Nothing too fancy tbf

vivid kraken
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some guy im playing in sm cup uses weird offenses so i tried making this

naive stump
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I def dont dislike the idea

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I'm just saying my version is better lol

vivid kraken
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yeah fs

naive stump
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I'm jk kek

vivid kraken
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but in my case i think weavile would be good into a bunch of psychics

naive stump
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How about loading something like

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Cress maybe

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I had something with tios, toad and mag

vivid kraken
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let me try to remember the 6s

naive stump
vivid kraken
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rotomw, tornt, mage, weavile, mmedi, kart, garchomp

zapdos, kart, gallade, rotomw, lando, mage

empo volc offense

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theyre rlly different sort of offenses so trying to go abt them

vivid kraken
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this is like fog kart?

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super underrated fog user

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on sun its rly good

naive stump
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Fog kart + cress is a really nice core

naive stump
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A bit hard to prep for all this non sense tbf

vivid kraken
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yeah its scarf rocks lando

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this not bw 😔

naive stump
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Lmao

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Tbf, this is not as bad as defog scarf lando

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Like, as long u manage to not reveal scarf on it, it's not too awful

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Issue is that it def works better on ground such as exca or garchomp

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Since they rarely runs scarf

vivid kraken
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how would i go about abusing tspikes on pex

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works well into stuff like diavolc offenses

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me thinks

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oh ok

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i can see it well vs psyspam kyub offense

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bc toad shuts down a lot of voltturn stuff

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and u have fog synth kart can deal with a defensive lando set easily

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pex + cress core rlly good for stuff that pex hates

little surge
naive stump
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T-spikes on the squad

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The sets are like:
-CM cress
-fog kart
-rocks toad
-bulky mag
-3 atk tios
-t-spikes toxa

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It's a bit hard to use since the speed control is low

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And it rely a lot on cress and toxa to check the whole metagame

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But it's pretty cool nonetheless

vivid kraken
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ic ok

vivid kraken
naive stump
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Np

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On the core of toxa kart defog cress

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Zardy is also a totally good pick with this core

vivid kraken
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would it apply well here?

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zard y > latios

naive stump
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Would run the zaza six

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But it's harder to run tho

vivid kraken
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bc kart and cress rlly abuse the sun but not so much the sand?

naive stump
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Well

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It's more that the team is strong

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But the way the team handle with certain MU is hella suspicious

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Like, lot of time, I had to hard zardy on pert to not lose against rain

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Scarf ttar is easily deadweight if too reckless with it

vivid kraken
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oh ic

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bc u have to be careful with glisc lando mus because they dont take much?

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like lando u turns on something and suddenly they have momentum

naive stump
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Nah

vivid kraken
naive stump
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I'm just saying

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That it need a bit of practice

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To know what to do with it

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Because cress toxa kart can easily being overblown by most common shit

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But it require to be careful with the HP on exca or ttar

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Since ttar is a very important part to deal with kart or garchomp for example

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Exca is ur speed control + secondary hazards management

vivid kraken
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ic

naive stump
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Zardy is the main winco of the team

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But also a part of the overall backbone of the squad

vivid kraken
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so just to know wut u need to keep healthy or not so much for certain mus

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and what to avoid

naive stump
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Hum

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Against balance, u need to be careful with kart defog

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Since ur main way to win against them is to pp stall what shit counter zardy

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So knowing how to pressure rocks setter and letting kart not to waste every synthesis just to defog hazards is very important

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With offense, it's a matter of momentum and hazards management lol

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Between cress, exca sand and zardy, should be a good MU

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Could even slap t-spikes on toxa to bully them even more

vivid kraken
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not wasting pp just to fog thrn swap

naive stump
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Yh

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It's still a zardy squad lol

little surge
sour warren
karmic geyserBOT
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New [Gen 6] OU RMT @azure torrent. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

silent edge
karmic geyserBOT
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New [Gen 7] OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

naive stump
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Otherwise, cool team

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Would go kart scarf over ash gren

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And use better sets since, in particular, fini and tran feels very old

silent edge
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I wanted to use cm fini but defog was the only set smogon analysis had available

naive stump
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It exist

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CM wiki berry defog

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But it only fit HO and maybe offense

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Not that zam BO

silent edge
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Gotcha

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I will ask, why protect over taunt?

naive stump
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U def can run another zam set lol

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Idea is that protect is useful to scout + it helps a lot to position zam in order to make easier the use of FS

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But it's pretty specific and hard to use

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It's optimal here but I def understand if u use something else

silent edge
naive stump
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Heat?

silent edge
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Heatran

naive stump
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Ah

silent edge
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Why protect on heatran over taunt

naive stump
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I dont think taunt serves any particular purpose here

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And since the backbone is pretty frail

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Protect let's you handle a bit better some unfunny shit

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Like vile or medi

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  • it synergize well with FS
silent edge
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Taunt was mostly for bulkier stall teams to trap things like blissey however I guess knock off kart punishes switches enough

naive stump
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Blissey in sm

silent edge
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Is it just not good in sm?

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Well...ok more specifically chancey

naive stump
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I dont think taunt spedef is that good into stall

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Low pp

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Can miss

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And it struggle to 1v1 chansey

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The real way to beat stall with that team

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Is KB and fini

silent edge
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Yeah I see that

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Any swaps into chancey is punished by kart

naive stump
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Nah

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No chansey would stay on kart

silent edge
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Man I need to play sm morem

naive stump
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The best result is knock off on skarm

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And avoid taking chip damage with u-turn lando

silent edge
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Right, also is surf worth th damage over scald burn?

naive stump
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Not like scald burn will matter that much

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At best, it will grab u a random burn on tias, celes or torn

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But neither tias or celes will want to stay/switch on fini

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And with torn, u are hitting those moonblast

silent edge
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Plus the burn doesn't really effect tias and celes

naive stump
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I think the best case of scald burn

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Would be tapu bulu

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But, again, fini have other common way to punish those poke

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Knock off or NM

naive stump
silent edge
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Can it not just leech seed up?

naive stump
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Yh, but u need to spend a turn for that and ur oppo can simply hit you

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Not to say protect no longer heals you

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And u are losing way faster on rocks

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This is why u never use celes as a kart check

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Because losing lefto simply kill the poke in the long term

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And burn results in the same situation but worse since u still can lose lefto

nocturne prawn
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 5] OU RMT @agile saffron, @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @surreal crypt, @upper plume, @gritty scaffold, @inner mist, @long ginkgo, @worldly walrus, @candid prairie. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gritty scaffold
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This team is quite slow

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And no scarfer seems quite risky

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First id recommend change
Ttar nature to careful. Exca could prob be sd and use a specs latios over mamoswine and use scarf lando maybe. With same moves still just change the evs to the analysis

nocturne prawn
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I expected an essay lol

gritty scaffold
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Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 32 HP / 80 Atk / 12 Def / 176 SpD / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature

  • Earthquake
  • Iron Head
  • Swords Dance
  • Rapid Spin
    And this exca set prob works better
gritty scaffold
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Oh yea you could prob run fire blast on ttar over super power for ferro or something , ice beam could work in a similar way if u feel like lando/garchomp is coming and to kill dnite already after rocks but you might want sassy nature if u run special moves. Rock slide can also be used to okho volcarona which can be problematic

gritty scaffold
nocturne prawn
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I don't really feel like switching it looking at the rest of the team, I can always remove latios' trick for ice beam and the rest of them team doesn't have a really good counter to ferro except HP fire

karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 6] OU RMT @azure torrent. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gusty jungle
karmic geyserBOT
gritty scaffold
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And you can set up on ferro with reun

cobalt vigil
nocturne prawn
inner mist
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They do very different things

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Reuniclus is a lategame wincon that works when Tar is heavily weakened

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Mamoswine is a wallbreaker that prefers having stuff like Skarmory statused

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Building a team with two together just feels incoherent

inner mist
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Like if this team had Terrak/Celebi over Reuni/Mamo it would feel a lot better

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It would probably be more boring but I think it's better to adjust the sets rather than trying to invent a new structure out of thin air

upper plume
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Celebi also just makes you not instantly lose to Keldeo

inner mist
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Yeah exactly

upper plume
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Once Rotom is weakened

inner mist
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I was going to say that but couldn't really put it into words

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The mindgame against Keldeo is much more reliable with Rotom + Celebi

nocturne prawn
limpid needle
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https://pokepast.es/b953dbd06d0c7943
need a different item on Kartana. Choice Scarf/Band maybe? I just hate to be locked into a move, especially with Beast Boost on Kartana.
Should I switch the Def on Hippowdon to SpDef or split them?
Could also switch Gliscor for Lando-T if that works.
Changed Kartana's nature from Timid to Jolly. Didn't realize I had done the wrong one. Also made Hippowdon Sassy (+SpDef/-Spd)

nocturne prawn
upper plume
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You have no Dragon resist

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Latios will destroy you even more than it ordinarily does

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I also just generally dislike Toxicroak

nocturne prawn
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Ferro > celebi?

upper plume
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Yes

naive stump
limpid needle
little surge
upper plume
naive stump
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The fact the only water resist is kart

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Makes the whole structure weak to a bunch of stuff

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A lot of of set are subpar or simply bad

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Careful full atk glis

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LO kart and LO exca

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Z-rock DD base ttar

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I think I remember you

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And I told you to play sample teams and learn more the tier before trying to build

vivid kraken
karmic geyserBOT
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New [Gen 7] OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

naive stump
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It auto lose to stall

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Zardx looks insanely ugly for you

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And kart fog means hazards wars is very complicate against any hazards stack balance

vivid kraken
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ic

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what are good zardx checks

naive stump
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Complicate answer lol

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Usually

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Lando

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Fini

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Bulu ttar

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Slowbro

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Ditto

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And that's all I think

vivid kraken
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ic

naive stump
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U can found more stuff

vivid kraken
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so if i were to expect a zard x id need one of those?

naive stump
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But it's more semi check

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And they kinda lose to SD variant

naive stump
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It depend of what zardx u are expecting

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Because zardx in HO is a different beast than zardx in balance

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Not that one is stronger than the other

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But they require different tools to be beaten

vivid kraken
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oh ic

naive stump
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Like, with zardx, having one check that can trade with it is enough

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But with balance, u need to pressure zardx with hazards

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T-spikes is good for both case imo

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Tbf

vivid kraken
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oh ok

naive stump
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I dont think ur team is bad

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I think it just lack more ways to pressure

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Outside of lop

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Too much poke that basically do nothing

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Like chansey rock less or that modest mag

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Feels like offense will easily found a path to abuse their breaker

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And offense will win the longterm due to superior hazards management and/or better long term winco (such as gliscor)

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For stall MU, I think it's quite hard to make a lop squad not weak to stall

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Most of the time, they just pair lop with either broken breaker into stall (Z-SD bulu, KB, Hoopa, ...) or a slow winco that annoys a lot stall (glis, reu, ...)

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But, for both case, it leads to some weird structure and, usually, not even enough to beat modern stall

vivid kraken
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ic

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for any good balance team u need reliable defog and x amount of mons to pressure?

naive stump
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Well

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I think fitting hazards is a good step for balance

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Rocks is huge ofc

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But spikes and t-spikes can go a long way for the playstyle

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Esp since users are those hazards are never bad into balance

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T-spikes user : Toxapex

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Spikes user : prot gren, skarm and ferro

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Another way to use balance, outside of (but still with) hazards support, is looping with a strong breaker that can beat any of its check given enough time

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Nowadays, the common example would be zardx

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Lot of longevity with roost, most of it's check can rarely stay too long with the combination of himself + hazards and it contribute to the defensive core with its dual typing

vivid kraken
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ic

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would you ever use balance without tspikes

naive stump
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Yh, ofc

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I dont think spikes are necessary also

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It's a question of what win path u want to take with ur balance honestly

vivid kraken
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oh ok

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so like what can beat x with y

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whether it be spikes or rocks

naive stump
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Well

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Just took one poke that u feel it can be strong

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And think how much time it would require to beat a team

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Then paired it with teammates that will give this amont of time

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This team is cool because it really does no waste any slot here

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Each of these poke do something useful for any matchs

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Kommo-o provide rocks

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Toxa + ferro other hazards

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U have two strong winco in the form of tias and glis

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While torn is a good speed control that can pressure with its z-hurri

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It's a bit old as a team, but it's still one of my favorite example of a consistant balance in sm

vivid kraken
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ic

vivid kraken
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because of the hazards that help

naive stump
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Yh

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Like, lot of shit can OHKO glis

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But most of them will slowly die on hazards

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So u need to think of what sequence u can enable

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That will force your oppo to trade HP in order to stop glis or tias sweeping

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Ofc it's complicate as there's a lot of parameters to account

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But u get the general idea

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No need to overthink it

vivid kraken
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ok

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thank you

naive stump
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Np

limpid needle
# naive stump And I told you to play sample teams and learn more the tier before trying to bui...

the way I build a team is first, I come up with a theme (legendary, weather, gimmick, whatever) then choose Pokemon that I feel would fit on the team. when building Pokemon, I look up IV spreads on Smogon University and (usually) use those spreads. Then I test the team, and this team wins just as often as it loses. Biggest problems are a lack of water resists (and Kart barely counts as a water resist anyway), but also a weakness to Ice, grass, and fighting. And it has a hard time dealing with a Chansey stall. Z-Rock DD TTar is there for atleast one accurate rock attack (aside from Diancie). And again, I want to use a different item on Kart, but don't want to be choice-locked into an attack. the Careful Glis is to atleast try to take an Ice Beam, while being good on the attack. don't mind shifting it to a Jolly 252 Spd Glis, but wanted to try something different.

#

again, it's not like it's not winning, I just want to improve it.

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the only team members I consider required are TTar and Hippowdon (I want 2 sand setters), but even Hippowdon is optional and maybe Excadrill is required. Diancie is there just to be able to use my mega slot, could do TTar instead, though

naive stump
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And it's faster to grab a good sand sample and stick with it until u get a better idea to how to build with Sand

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Moreover, in your case, I think it will also help you to improve ur overall comprehension of the tier and the game

limpid needle
naive stump
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Use this instead

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Standard BO sand

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Good and reliable

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Very good to learn the playstyle

limpid needle
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you basically linked the sample team from the forums. what's the point of Zapdos except to die from Sandstorm? Toxapex could handle the chip damage from sandstorm with Regenerator, but not Zapdos.

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and this team is just BEGGING to be hit from just one fire attack. Nothing but steel (aside from TTar and Zapdos which would keel over from sandstorm chip damage). Charizard-Y would eat this team for breakfast and still have room for dessert...

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and where's the sand setter with a smooth rock? Or am I supposed to switch in TTar every 5 turns, and hope he's not hit by a fighting attack?

naive stump
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I will insist one last time

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U really need to play more the tier

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How zardy could be an issue

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When there's a whole toxapex

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Zapdos is very logical here

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Volt switch is a god sent to trap tias with ttar

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Pivot for kart

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And secondary checks for kart and torn alongside celes (that hate taking knock off)

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Not to say it helps to improve medi MU

limpid needle
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Easy. one or 2 hits from a drought powered SB. And with no IVs invested in SAt, Toxapex would do NOTHING (but maybe annoy Card Y with toxic) with Scald in drought. I've seen Zard-Y take a hydro pump from a Protean Greninja and survive in Sun. And TTar won't like taking a SB either. Literally the only thing here that counters Zard-Y is Zapdos.

naive stump
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Toxic

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It's huge

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Check ur calc as well

upper plume
naive stump
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252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 85-101 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- 84.3% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery

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252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex in Sun: 72-85 (23.6 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery

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Also

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Saying zapdos counter zardy

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Is

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I have no words man

limpid needle
naive stump
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0 SpA Zapdos Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 186-222 (62.6 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

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And ofc zard-y is faster than zapdos

limpid needle
naive stump
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U speed tie at best with zary

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Secondly

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252 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 254-302 (85.5 - 101.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

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252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos in Sun: 280-330 (87.2 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

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Zardy has still better odds to beat zapdos

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And

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Ofc

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Zardy will OHKO if it use fire blast or overheat

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252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos in Sun: 343-405 (106.8 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

limpid needle
#

which now leads me to wonder why use Zapdos over Thunderus-T? Same type (so same immunities/resists). I guess it's more defensive? TT has better SpA (and outspeeds Zapdos/Zard-Y)

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and outside of Togekiss (and MAYBE Cloyster, although even there I think I maxed out it's speed - and both have their own speed control anyway), I either run full offense (max Spd and either Atk or SpA) or full defense (2 of HP, Def, or SpD).

naive stump
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Ok

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I give up

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You dont want to listen

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Fine

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I have wasted too much time already

naive stump
nocturne prawn
cobalt vigil
little surge
tribal smelt
#

This team is very very bad

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There is no saving the core idea for there is no core idea

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You built this on hunches with little metagame understanding

vivid kraken
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 7] OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

cobalt vigil
naive stump
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Looks cool

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I think it suffer mainly from the fact ur only way to not lose to psyspam is modest mag

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Lucha also looks evil here

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Hum

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The more I look at it, the more I think ferro is insanely ass as well

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U could run some trapper toxa maybe, but it will make you weak to volcarona

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Or HP fire latios

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Chansey > toxapex?

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Losing t-spikes really suck

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But it makes psy-spam less a pain

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And lucha is even more painful

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Oh yh

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Medicham is horrible

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But it's not that bad since ditto is pretty good into medi squad

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An option to improve the MU could be latias > latios

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It makes psy-spam, lucha and medi a bit less unfair

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But ur build become way more passive

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Even if I think I would rather see defog twave tias over skarmory running defog

vivid kraken
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ic

naive stump
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Yh, mb, I dont see any ez solutions to improve the team lol

vivid kraken
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maybe like hydreigon > mage

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and chansey > pex

naive stump
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It's the kind of team where it def need some more test to have a better idea to know what to focus and improve

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Hum

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Medi is still a bitch

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And now switching on lele looks dire

vivid kraken
#

i think most lele run twisted spoon

naive stump
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Taunt hydreigon do sounds cool with hazards stacks tho

vivid kraken
#

so no chancw

naive stump
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Well, I would still keep in mind specs

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But either way, need a real psyshock switch

vivid kraken
#

ic

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ill try it out on ladder for a few weeks

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thx

naive stump
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Np

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No need to spent that much time

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But like

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At least a dozen of matchs

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Something like 20 matchs

vivid kraken
#

ic

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ok ill do around that

jaunty thistle
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 7] OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

jaunty thistle
#

sm ou

naive stump
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I also think this set of koko is kinda mid nowadays

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And, for what looks like a bo-ish koko KB squad, the speed control is quite low

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Esp since ur main answer to something like zam is heatran

tropic schooner
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Id rather have wiki on that koko set

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Shuca is too cheesy and doesnt do much here

naive stump
#

Maybe

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I think specs is good enough here

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I would just do something like

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Lando over glis

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Tapu fini over serp

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And maybe lop/zam over diancie

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Moreover, I would run some bulk on KB

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To help alleviate the lack of speed control

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If u are running zam, z-fusion bolt is cool

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But I prefer z-ice most of the time otherwise

peak canyon
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 7] OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

jaunty thistle
naive stump
#

Esp since u are running CM focus blast zam

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Aka the zam that won against every steel (bar scizor)

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Overall, it lack some key resist

peak canyon
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ok

peak canyon
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any suggestions

naive stump
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For example, something like KB or medi looks very annoying

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Hum

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What was the idea with the team?

peak canyon
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what move should I replace in zam or should I remove zone itself

naive stump
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Let's try to keep that zam + zone

peak canyon
#

alright

naive stump
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Overall, I like that idea of ebutton toxa + zone

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So we can try to keep the whole zam toxa zone stuff

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Since u want some BO

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I think the best way to tackle this issue is to go for something offensive

peak canyon
#

like

naive stump
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Something like

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Tapu bulu band over serp

peak canyon
#

hm

naive stump
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Wait

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I might have something funnier

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How about we make this zam a diancie

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And we go for something like this

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That bulu could be a serp btw

peak canyon
naive stump
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Eh

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I didn't include a weavile lol

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Zam + vile could be a cool core

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If it's something like

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Z-ground vile maybe

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But it sounds hard to support

naive stump
peak canyon
naive stump
#

Just give me 5 min to do the sets

tropic schooner
naive stump
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I mostly put random spread I had in my builder

peak canyon
naive stump
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So feel free to change them later

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I'm not sure about cress set

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CM is never bad

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But I def can see FS working here

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Dont hesitate to try different sets

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But I think the six is cool like that

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Some very obvious weakness ofc lol

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Heatran is omega aids for you

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Also

naive stump
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Since it will be mostly gterrain + toxapex copium against swampert

shell ridge
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me me

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My turn

shell ridge
#

I have

naive stump
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Something really heat u could use

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Is AV mirror coat zone lol

shell ridge
naive stump
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But, even with that, tran still will be a bitch for you

shell ridge
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E button pex but mag to trap and remove

nocturne prawn
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 5] OU RMT @agile saffron, @azure torrent, @astral thistle, @surreal crypt, @upper plume, @gritty scaffold, @inner mist, @long ginkgo, @worldly walrus, @candid prairie. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

naive stump
peak canyon
upper plume
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I'd ideally like to fit SR on Chansey, but this is pretty decent

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I don't think Surf is necessary; nor is Draco Plate

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Whole point of Xatu is that it weakens Tyranitar for Latios and sun

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You may consider Lum or Yache Berry and Recover on Lati instead of Draco Plate and Surf

nocturne prawn
#

k

inner mist
nocturne prawn
inner mist
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Yeah

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I was thinking one of Forry or Drill over Latios/Volc

#

The wincon is pretty flexible

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Even Cress can be a wincon with CM

inner mist
#

A Steel is important for Physical Dragons

loud heron
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 6] OU RMT @azure torrent. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

unborn kiln
#

Hello guys i wanted to check my first game in gen 3 ou using a standard spikes team, i think i misplayed several times as i did not know how to deal with the mixed tyranitar lead but i managed to recover and turn the game around. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2152266687-mgcdji67wcblbpabeuooh4s5zt0gwuzpw

[Gen 3] OU: KabutopsEnthusiast vs. soalcing - Replays - Pokémon Sho...

Watch a replay of a Pokémon battle between KabutopsEnthusiast and soalcing! Format: [Gen 3] OU; Date: Jun 29, 2024

shell ridge
karmic geyserBOT
#

New [Gen 7] OU RMT @vast oracle. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shell ridge
#

If someone responds i can give a throughout explaination and my personal issues with the team

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Weakness, ideas , calcs and a few ev spread

naive stump
shell ridge
naive stump
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Weavile and Kyurem-Black are doing dirty here

shell ridge
#

I can’t find a defensive core

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Offensively i can create counter play

naive stump
#

I think there's a bit of a missmatch here

shell ridge
#

Being aggressive with the switch ins or changing

naive stump
#

Diancie + vic band is good core

shell ridge
#

Game plans

shell ridge
#

Thats the idea here

naive stump
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But it require some volt turn non sense

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Not that slow celesteela

shell ridge
#

Stealth rock on

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Diance would rock but the idea is rock polish

shell ridge
naive stump
#

Like

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I would expect

#

Something like

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Lando scarf ferro rotom wash

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As the main backbone

shell ridge
#

Idk i wanted to throw gastro celes and lando out the window

shell ridge
naive stump
#

Yep

shell ridge
#

Actually

#

I tried rotom wash with celes but it didn’t work

#

Ferro would work

naive stump
#

Yh, because u are slowing down ur offensive core

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With celes

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Like, in my mind

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The ideal structure is

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3 volt turn pivor

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Vic