NatDex Other Tiers

[distant hearth]

https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059714627384115290
Go there then

[frail stirrup]

how's this for a squad

https://pokepast.es/cdf439cce915f1f3

[low juniper]

Nah

Kid named pyogre

[pearl scroll]

wtf is this? We are playing ndubers not ndou bruh

[frail stirrup]

I started it for fun it now became an addiction

[pearl scroll]

But why not just use stuff that are literally way better

Primal kyogre 6-0s this

[pearl scroll]

Primal kyogre 6-0s this, and Pdon (best mon in the tier) outclasses torkoal by a long shot

Like what is even the point of using these fake mons?

And what the hell are these sets? High horsepower got no place.

[hazy remnant]

don’t be rude when rating

[grand spear]

^

[hazy remnant]

give actual feedback

[hazy remnant]

The only viable mons on this team are chi yu and fluttermane who both fit in different team structures (chi yu fitting on webs and mane fitting on i don’t remember)

i would honestly recommend just using a sample and learning what mons use what and why they use it then go back to building once you’ve gotten more of an understanding for the tier

Weather in ndubers is not very viable (with a fringe exception of MTar stall and koraidon before it got banned) due to the presence of both of the primals

[tropic scroll]

tbf mtar isnt even weather lol

its just for itself

yung wasp is right though

the entire team is unviable

when in ubers

generally at least 4/6 of your mons should be a proper uber mon

[hazy remnant]

ye

[distant hearth]

TBH this could work as is in ND Ubers UU, just swap Torkoal with regular Groudon, then swap Flutter Mane with something else as it got banned over there

I'd also have to ask why Walking Wake is holding Assault Vest, it's a breaker, you'd want to give it Choice Specs or so, and then swap Hydro Pump with Flip Turn

Oh, looking further, Chi-Yu is also banned over there, so this team would require way too much of a rework to be usable as is, I'd recommend to grab a sample team instead

[lean nova]

https://pokepast.es/0a69384a7fd3734a

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[atomic salmon]

Pick between barra/m pert/ kindra as ur sweeper and go from there. Take off toad as well since you have pelipper as the rain setter which is the best one so far. If anything you can just do a comp of pelipper + m pert + Greninja + empoleon + ogerpon W or urshifu and Z haze toxapex

M pert good role compression in rain sweeper + electric immunity which allows u to run empoleon as your special defensive wall. This allows the team to just not get 6-0 by freeze dry kyurem.

[lean nova]

Thank you that’s actually some really great advice you gave me

[outer brook]

https://pokepast.es/f82f650322ce0c00

it's for a tournament, 4v4 nat dex ou, moves/items that switch such as u-turn or eject pack are banned

[distant hearth]

!nolegends

[dry ridge]

See rule 6 of #1030567099703242903 message

[jagged crane]

Raters can't rate for a meta that doesn't exist

[tropic scroll]

that gotta be the craziest ruleset i seen in my years of being here

[low juniper]

Why the hell is uturn banned

[tropic scroll]

pixelmon tings

[frail stirrup]

I can beat primal Kyogre with this squad

[tropic scroll]

u cannot unless your opponent plays like a muppet

[frail stirrup]

What does that even mean

[tropic scroll]

basically means ur opponents r piss poor and dont know how primal kyogre works

[frail stirrup]

Like they spam og pulse

[tropic scroll]

can just cm and win too

[frail stirrup]

Whats cm

[tropic scroll]

calm mind

[frail stirrup]

Nha I can clip em too

Guess they’re just dumb

So what type of team should I make if I want to keep “ Mecha Freeza”

[hazy remnant]

you can’t

genesect is utterly unviable

there’s no justification in using it

[low juniper]

idt u have a switch in to origin pulse

wait nvm

av walking wake

but tbf 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Walking Wake: 131-155 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

[frail stirrup]

Ok

[hazy remnant]

i think that's the least problematic thing atm

[lean nova]

https://pokepast.es/cfd3635e40105ad6

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lean nova]

someone said opegron would be better but switch for who

[pearl scroll]

Rillaboom is better with U turn on choice sets

[atomic salmon]

take off breloom for Rockpon. Im ngl the team is slow/ lack speed control. you can also take away celebi for meowscarada.
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature

• Sludge Bomb
• Synthesis
• Hidden Power Fire
• Leech Seed
  This should be the M venu spread, You will need the bulk to handle the likes of Mamoswine better for the team. the speed evs out speed adamant azu. Hp Fire deals with M Scizor better. You can run earth power over synthesis if you want for more coverage.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Relaxed Nature

• Gyro Ball

• Stealth Rock

• Leech Seed

• Body Press
  Should be the Ferro set as this allows ferrothorn to handle sub Kyurem better.

• Make your Whimsicott max SpA max Spe.

[lean nova]

I'll do that but I have a question

is grass even a good type to use in monotype? isn't it very low ranking?

[atomic salmon]

Its not a good type to use but its more breathing room then sv mono at least. Strong core of ferro + m venu. But yeah its not consider using, for beginners

[frail stirrup]

So wait are you saying he’s bad or are you saying that there are far more better options

[tropic scroll]

both’

[frail stirrup]

Bro is this your second account

[tropic scroll]

what

[swift pewter]

no those are two different pple

[frail stirrup]

Why he is he responding then, I wasn’t asking him.

[tropic scroll]

because i know the answer

two people can know the same thing

[solemn zodiac]

me when i got an answer but it wasn’t from the guy i asked so it’s invalid

[hazy remnant]

both

[frail stirrup]

Damn, now I realized WHY I called him ‘Mecha Freeza’

[hazy remnant]

also

adem is a tier council member

[frail stirrup]

Didn’t know that but aight

[frail stirrup]

Hold if he isn’t even good why put him in ubers? Is it because he’s broken in OU

[hazy remnant]

yeah

ubers is the banlist tier

[frail stirrup]

Oh aight

Well damn, guess that my goat is washed now

[low juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/fnb-get-this-man-a-true-gif-25257480

[frail stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/fnb-get-this-man-a-true-gif-25257480

[distant hearth]

Yeah, Ubers doesn't work by usage and so stuff that's within the tier isn't necessarily viable or even used that much, which is why there's a D rank in the VR over just outright unraking them
Genesect is also outclassed by Arceus, Pheromosa, and Yveltal

[low juniper]

and gdarm

[frail stirrup]

Im now going to name power creeping “ the Genesect paradox”

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-battle-royale-terminalmontage-giratina-genesect-gif-14159082

[tropic scroll]

i mean

genesect was literally only viable in its debut gen

and was unviable every time after that

not really powercreep either, just a huge meta change

nothing directly creeped it

[frail stirrup]

“How meta affects pokemon, the Genesect theorem”

[grand spear]

meta affects pokemon

[frail stirrup]

I know, just look at gen 6

Im sad we never got a Genesect paradox form ( Idc which future or past )

If you couldn’t notice im a massive Genesect fan

[grand spear]

simply become a BW Ubers main

[frail stirrup]

Wait people still play those?

[grand spear]

Yes but let's not continue the convo in the rates channel

[frail stirrup]

K

[dawn ridge]

https://pokepast.es/6c6b4431d30fca4b (Natdex Monotype)
Trying to balance between the Ground v Ground matchup and the matchup between common types/mons strong against Ground (it's for a Gym Leader team so I'll probably be expecting opponents that pack a lot of them)

[keen zephyr]

@worthy fjord @atomic salmon correct me if I'm wrong but the Gastro should be a Clod, Exca to be a Z, Lando > Shocks

[distant hearth]

Should note that Terastallizing is banned in ND Monotype

[atomic salmon]

Oki idk what the rules for your gym leader stuff. Or what items allowed for it but booster energy is banned same with tera. Make hippowdon physical defensive. If you are going for a SD exca set i would honestly go for a Sd steel z and change t blast to like rapid spin or rock slide. Clodsire should be in the gastro slot. Great role compression in being a water immunity while also helping the team not be weak to meowscarada (if its triple axel meow then gg but not everyone is running t axel.) It also can help hazard stack with providing t spikes. Lando should be over gastro. Amazing special wallbreaker with access to gravity. Gliscor is not really good on a ground team imo. Mamo should be Choice Band with Icicle crash, Ice shard, Earthquake, and Superpower. Change the item and tera blast on sandy shocks for like heavy duty boots or scarf, power gem over tera blast

[keen zephyr]

Gliscor is good but it just doesn't fit here

[atomic salmon]

its not really good on ground, dont need its passitivity on ground structure teams especially when you have clod already.. you rather have either of the landos in that slot.

but like i said its my opinion

[keen zephyr]

Yeah tho between knock and spikes and SD there's so many options to fix but but this isn't rly the structure where it thrives

[dawn ridge]

it's a bit weird because we play in National Dex OU (so I think things like Lando-I are banned but stuff like booster energy and tera is fair game) but gym leaders are restricted to monotype.
without lando-I should I keep sandy as is?
I'll def implement all of the other changes tho, tyvm for the help!

[atomic salmon]

ohh i see then yeah

and np!

[open folio]

hello person from 9 months ago i just used your team and got this semi funny clip https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2122900737

hope u like it lol

[gritty mist]

Ratey trick room Ubers team https://pokepast.es/13969c502ce9b75a

[distant hearth]

I think you'd really want a Cresselia in somewhere as both Calyrex-I and Melmetal will struggle in terms of PP, namely as Lunar Dance refills those mid-game to ease further wallbreaking, I'd suggest to replace Arceus-Fairy with that one

Additionally Weakness Policy is inconsistent for Calyrex-I, I'd recommend the Choice Band set here

[pearl scroll]

wtf are they doing with a mono psychic team on Ubers?

[tropic scroll]

pogre should also be min speed

i think cm might be better on it over spout im ngl

to own pdon + other stuff midgrounds

[lean nova]

https://pokepast.es/3eb302320180d956

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lean nova]

this is a team ive been using

any tips to improve it

[worthy fjord]

do you really like Drap/Salazzle?

because you really need M.Ven in Poison for the juicy Ground neutrality

[lean nova]

I think you might be right

[worthy fjord]

I'd drop salazzle if ever, then you could use pursuit on drap so that it still does what A.Muk would otherwise do (trap choice-locked Psychics/Ghosts)

Pursuit over Eq specifically

[solid sapphire]

https://pokepast.es/c7a5ec16cb53d094 Ubers

[distant hearth]

Gholdengo seems out of place for an hyper offense not as reliant on hazards (Deoxys-S here is only setting Stealth Rock), I'd recommend to swap it with Double Dance Primal Groudon as it's generally a net benefit for offensive teams, being difficult to take down and providing an option that can act as a sweeper or a breaker depending on the matchup

The Necrozma-DM spread is also outdated, I'd recommend to look at the analysis for details on the new spread of 24 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Def / 140 Spe (Adamant)

[tropic scroll]

etern shld also be tera dragon and fire blast > flame

i think with that ud get more use from something like ekiller as well over ray / pdon

[low juniper]

Arceus Normal is generally a better Trick Room setter than Arceus-Fairy since it can hold Mental Herb to block Taunt. But Cresselia like Bob said is better for Melmetal and Caly-I's PP problem. Weakness Policy Caly-I is also not as good as Choice Band, especially since the latter can Trick and cripple switch-ins like Dondozo or even Tera Water Zygarde. Zen Headbutt is also useless you're better off using Close Combat or Seed Bomb. Primal Kyogre should be minspeed and Ursaluna kinda wants Swords Dance to abuse switches that it makes such as with NDM or Primal Groudon.

[low juniper]

Heat Wave Yveltal sucks just run Taunt to stop Defog and stuff

[tropic scroll]

seed bomb

if not ur walled by zyg anyways

trick or not

[gritty mist]

Thanks for the advice but I have prime Kyogre at max speed to potentially out speed prime Groudon outside trick room because its a major offensive threat to my outside trick room and I have protect instead of swords dance because most times I can't ohko pokemon like prime Groudon and necrozma dusk man without the guts boost and they could potentially ohko me in return

[low juniper]

yeah but in trick room the primal groudon will outspeed you and weaken ur water spout and u shouldnt be worried about being outsped outside of TR since TR is ur whole niche anyways

also neither pdon or NDM can ohko ursaluna, with the latter only being able to do so with its zmove (and even thats super low)
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna: 264-312 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna: 199-235 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna: 397-468 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

[lean nova]

https://pokepast.es/ff0ed03be645bffd and https://pokepast.es/ff0ed03be645bffd

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lean nova]

Which team is better

[worthy fjord]

neither, Doublade is really bad, Gholdengo is now the ghold standard for a Fight immune these days

[lean nova]

sad no more aegislash

[worthy fjord]

aegis is legal

wouldnt suggest him tho since ghold is just too good

anothe issue on this team is that its a bit slow and not that bulky Imo

you could do the boring steel with swapping ferro from luc, then ghol over doublade and fix Skarmy's set

tho you can go offensive if you want to, but its harder to pull off imo

[lean nova]

yeah i know what youre talking bout ive seen that team a bit too much, but hey it seems to work so ig i dont mind using it

[worthy fjord]

that boring steel team is just too good meow

but thats really steel for you, you can always have flexibility if you want

for instance, Offensive Celes/Corv + Defensive Scizor + Archaludon cores are plausible

Gholdengo and Heatran are the ones usually fixed tho

[shut inlet]

https://pokepast.es/3e64a31cfef0967b
This team is trash but I hope someone tells me how to fix

[swift pewter]

#1059714627384115290

[keen zephyr]

Funnily enough idt it's that bad if u don't use the defensive ones

SD and it's variants are fine enough

[grand spear]

what abt subtox

[keen zephyr]

that's kinda whatever

[weary compass]

https://pokepast.es/7e489544e99521a2
A balance team I made for Natdex ubers.

(My Groudon has Overheat not Rock Tomb)

And Yveltal is meant to have Taunt not tailwind.

[low juniper]

u dont rlly need roar on pdon so u can prob afford toxic esp if fairceus isnt running it

serious nature fairceus #lomfao

[weary compass]

TvT

Team building errors.

[hazy remnant]

yeah apart from that i dont see anything super glaring from the team it's solid

[low juniper]

oh yh u could prob have tera water on fairceus cuz u alr have yvel for unecro

and pyogre does look a little bit annoying

[hazy remnant]

fairyceus is the yvel switch-in id assume

hence the spdef investment

[low juniper]

yeah so whats tera dark for then

[hazy remnant]

ye

that's tru

If you wanted to be evil you could consider running calm mind fairyceus

but it's pretty solid with the previously mentioned changes

[low juniper]

oh tera poison also works

cuz offensive etern could be an issue

maybe

[low juniper]

u could have rock tomb on marsh maybe

cuz breaking through hooh looks kinda hard

[tropic scroll]

yvel shlf have sucker then

if its for unec

[swift pewter]

tailwind yveltal is interesting

ah that's a misstype

[tropic scroll]

Yep.

Tailwind yveltal is BAD

[uncut gulch]

nat dex monotype https://pokepast.es/d52215f521486b8c

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[keen zephyr]

Idk about this but I feel like Moth > Ace as the scarfer?

[uncut gulch]

moth?

wait what mon is that again

[runic sage]

a couple of options you could go from here with.

• Since its a HO fire team, nowadays people are running screens rotom-heat and that could replace the scarf cinderace
• Heatran is also a bit of a momentum sink and if you do go screens, volcarona is a possibility to slot over heatran, ground neutral as well

i would also go heavy duty boots on torkoal but its preference whether you want longer sun turns or more consistent removal

[uncut gulch]

ig i could go boots

hes bulky to survive getting hit from a switch in

hopefully

should he have volt switch or pain split

im not sure

@runic sage

[keen zephyr]

Iron moth

[uncut gulch]

oh

[runic sage]

reflect light screen volt switch defog/pain split

max hp max spdef

[uncut gulch]

is overheat useless

[runic sage]

you have 5 other teammates with fire attacks

so its not needed

[uncut gulch]

true

[atomic salmon]

in this sense you just want to keep momentum after setting screens as well

[uncut gulch]

volcan or moth though

[keen zephyr]

Ttk/boomp should there be a moth here

[runic sage]

volcarona on screens

[keen zephyr]

The other moth I mean

[atomic salmon]

nah

[keen zephyr]

Oh ok ;-;

As Neko puts it

Kommy :c

[runic sage]

scarf moth is fine outside of screens, just depends on structure

[keen zephyr]

Do we just instalose to kommo

[atomic salmon]

no

[runic sage]

theres a whole victini

[uncut gulch]

alr this is what u guys reccomended right

https://pokepast.es/3462b9cf28084f5d

[atomic salmon]

you have screens support with victini + zard x

[keen zephyr]

ig u play very even more aggressively with this team against fighting and dragon ye

[uncut gulch]

i forgot rotoms evs lol

[atomic salmon]

ur fine

[runic sage]

go psychic > giga drain i think

[atomic salmon]

its HO u need to play aggressive

[keen zephyr]

I said even more aggressively :3

I just tend to get very scared around Kommo-o that thing shits on several types if ur not careful

[uncut gulch]

are these rotom evs good

https://pokepast.es/7400f516730eeb71

bro

i keep doing the wrong pokepaste

[runic sage]

max hp max spdef is better

[uncut gulch]

hold on

alr

you mind rating it 1 through 10 now

https://pokepast.es/5b45e2e8982452a2

?

[runic sage]

looks fine to me 8/10

[uncut gulch]

is snorlax viable on normal type teams?

@runic sage

?

[runic sage]

its kinda weird, i dont want to say no because frankly theres worse mons to run, but its not particularly good

[uncut gulch]

damn

really like snorlax

but if hes not any good at all ill probably just use eviolite chansey

or maybe blissey i dont know whats better

[keen zephyr]

It's not terrible

[uncut gulch]

rate normal nat dex monotype https://pokepast.es/80adad1bc0ed5c05

[pearl scroll]

Imagine not using megalop on ndmono

Also stellar forme can’t be used as Tera is banned

[uncut gulch]

i just used it as the sprite to look cool

[uncut gulch]

it still only goes into its 2nd form

also i only used pidgeot cuz mega look dope

[weary compass]

I don't think Mono Normal is great.

It doesn't really provide any advantages.

[keen zephyr]

Mono Normal is doing solidly atm

And megalop doesn't have to be used

[grand spear]

Mono normal is a fine type?

[distant hearth]

With Mono Fighting being kinda bad, Mono Normal in practice has a ton of neutral matchups and doesn't nearly inherently lose at team preview to any other type, unlike other options

[glossy arch]

https://pokepast.es/aa54b61726b5da0e

ND Uber team

Alternate Team

https://pokepast.es/a4a1f5c0492a9722

[distant hearth]

...This is unviable, none of the Pokemon shown here are ranked in the VR bar Buzzwole (which is being heavily considered to be unranked), Ribombee is also an entirely outclassed setter of Sticky Web, I'd really recommend to use a sample team as this is beyond salvation

[distant hearth]

Slightly better with Pheromosa but still terrible, especially as Pheromosa's viability relies on rather specific team structures, with the power level of this team being similarly too low for this metagame, if you want to use this kind of Pokemon for the most part I'd suggest to look for a lower tier

[glossy arch]

Which pokemon would you suggest?

[pearl scroll]

Primal groudon is right there…

[distant hearth]

Just look at some sample teams and try them out, get more customized to the metagame and then you'll be able to make more meta-appropiate teams
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-resources-thread.3712170/

[glossy arch]

👍

[low juniper]

This is an OU team

[jagged crane]

This isn't constructive criticism, let's try to keep comments like this out of the channel

[main rain]

https://pokepast.es/01d0ada3bbd72522
Any chance? ND UU

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sullen jackal]

https://pokepast.es/f19b9e6bba2408d4

NatDex Ubers. Been wanting to build with MMX, but the lack of an analyses forced me to build alone from square one 👍

This has been working well enough, but not as well as some of my other teams, so I thought I'd check

...Chatot sucks @distant hearth 😭

Ping when you're up lol

[low juniper]

seems solid but switching around gira-o looks a bit annoying

same with marshadow

[sullen jackal]

Gira-O is troublesome yeah

Yveltal usually handles

But its iffy

Marsh same thing

[low juniper]

also ngl i'd go either stone edge or knock off on mmx over eq

to deal with hooh better

cuz apart from groundceus breaking through it seems iffy

[sullen jackal]

Ive had this realization yesterday

Eq was mostly for pdon but low kick is enough

Lol

[rugged belfry]

hey guys, I'm pretty new to natdex ubers but its hella fun. Here's a team i teambuilt. Can ya'll rate it and give me some advice? https://pokepast.es/e0dc578e8f23c5f9

[solemn zodiac]

why is yveltal ev’d to be defensive as an offensive set

[swift pewter]

scarf mostly wants to click foul play so its justifiable

[solemn zodiac]

hm

ic

[swift pewter]

i think the structure is good, maybe there needs to be an extra oomf against defensive teams here

sometimes teams in ndubers prefer spikes over rocks since spikes hit pretty much everything better barring gira-o, lo yveltal and salamence

considering you have fairyceus i think here you want spikes

maybe toxic on pdon too so you can force giratina on stall to rest at some point so you get some spikes up

groudon most likely wants a much more defensive spread here

to help against primal kyogre and eternatus

probably make giratina tera steel or poison

i think there is a good argument to be made to fit defog on ho-oh to have a giratina set that could help more against slower teams

i think spikes toxic pdon + dragon tail giratina can help a lot

tera steel gira-o will blank defensive eterns not running fire moves and you get to lure in chansey w/ dtail + spikes

[sonic sleet]

defog>brave bird on ho oh, then run a more defensive pdon set with toxic and spikes to be better into zacc offenses, also forces offensive etern to burn z move or tera on you which is quite nice

structurally as r8 said this kinda sucks into defensive teams

your giratina origin could be a physical set with this setup probably, dtail is really annoying with spikes up

and then you can also chunk defensive yveltal with stone edge or toxic

https://pokepast.es/867223897084bc48

smth along the lines of this probably works

@swift pewter i think this is what u meant

[swift pewter]

ye

gira doesn't have to be rest though

it can be mixed twave dtail too

[sonic sleet]

i guess

but i like this better for stallbreaking

[swift pewter]

it probably works yeah

[low juniper]

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Core
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 192 Def / 12 Spe
Tera Type: Poison
Impish Nature

• Poltergeist
• Dragon Tail
• Defog
• Rest

this would be better than the one u got cuz u dont have sneak

also maybe tera steel

idk

[sonic sleet]

defog on rest is worrywhirling

[swift pewter]

na run defog on the ho-oh

[hazy remnant]

oh shouldn’t cc be low kick here

on marsh

[low juniper]

it wa ssupposed to be toxic

i forgor

[distant hearth]

You have to pick an ability for base Mewtwo, I'd recommend Unnerve for the niche use against Arceus in case it runs Chople Berry, I also don't have to explain that Mega Mewtwo X can't Terastallize, but I presume you already know and are merely using Tera Stellar as filler
Behemoth Blade on Zacian-C is rather difficult to justify nowadays over Play Rough, it simply hits way less relevant stuff in comparison
And yeah, Low Kick hits Primal Groudon sufficiently hard, Stone Edge for Ho-Oh would fit more here

[sullen jackal]

Yeah Stellar is filler lol

Its just for the memes

Also play rough on zac? Noted

Already swapped for sedge

[low juniper]

tbf bblade is fine on zacc

for this team

beats fairceus better for yvel and mmx

[sullen jackal]

Ima be real i havent had that many issues with zygarde

Yveltal usually wins

Or forces it out at least

[low juniper]

yvel and groundceus should handle zyg unless its like

+3

[sullen jackal]

Yea

[low juniper]

then it becomes iffy

[sullen jackal]

I'll test both moves on zac

Implemented the other changes tho

Thanks you two

Also wait

@distant hearth mmx's neutral low kick still hits harder than base m2's supereffective low kick

479 / 319 is like ~1.51, which with STAB becomes ~2.255

[low juniper]

yeah so

[distant hearth]

The team already has a Ho-Oh and PDon, it has sufficient counterplay for that mon

[distant hearth]

Can you explain what the EVs on Yveltal, Ho-Oh, and Arceus-Fairy do?

[rugged belfry]

thank you for all the advice

[rugged belfry]

thanks

[rugged belfry]

well the evs i mostly stole from other teams. Arceus evs to tank prob yveltal shots and outspeed it.

[proper quiver]

What do yall think of my nat dex Ubers team? I heard Zyguard+Primal Groudon+Yveltal was good, so I decided to make a team with it using my favorite fighting type wall breaker. https://pokepast.es/2c03f8c6d8d4da28

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2131050790-d8hx3h7hi9q8aok8yv0vjhwy1jget5spw

[tropic scroll]

mmx kinda sucks dick

think u wld get much better use of marsh in that slot

beam on cm water also doesnt really do much

u wld benefit much more from ep

the zyg set is also a bit weird here, is there any reason why ur offensive dd here

over like, any other set

spd coil maybe or just physdef

[proper quiver]

What’s ep?

earth power?

[proper quiver]

I like big damage

[proper quiver]

spdf coil seems fire ngl

I could try that

Although I like how offensive dd out-speeds everything

[proper quiver]

What marsh set should I use?

scarf maybe

orrr uh

sash?

band seems kinda cool

just for that raw power

Also mmx being terrible works to my advantage sometimes

with the nickname it tricks people sometimes

and often hooh doesn’t expect to be 1 shot by rock slide by a mewtwo

[grand spear]

sash is not a good set at all

band is good tho

Tho I think they're saying you should go BU marsh

[proper quiver]

Bu kinda sux too tho

It has like 0 bulk to it’ll be unable to set up any

and it’s attack is good but it’s not that good

you can’t really invest much in bulk and hit like a semi truck

[proper quiver]

nvm it actually is a lot more bulky than I thought

90 hp 90 spdef

not blissy

but it’ll live a neutral move or two

from something not mega mewtwo strong

[grand spear]

nah bu is fine, u don't even need to invest in defense

[distant hearth]

Bulk Up is mainly for the Attack boost, with a Life Orb it's surprisingly hard to wall especially given the lack of a choice lock with sufficient momentum, so it's a good sweeper

[proper quiver]

I mean, I’ll try it

It’s like:
Low Kick
Spectral Thief
Shadow Sneak
Bulk Up
Holding a life orb
right?

[low juniper]

yh

[proper quiver]

OOH GOD THIS COMEBACK HAD ME PISSING MYSELF https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2131642878-zzr2buagkzr8vx863npaacm6m8c1hakpw

I judgemented instead of ice beamed in the beginning bec I was expecting that he was expecting that I would switch, and shed tail into zac or something

[tropic scroll]

!replays

[dry ridge]

See rule 1 of https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1030567099703242903

[tropic scroll]

anyways there was no reason to expect a switch

its a grass type vs a water type

why would they swap into zac and waste sword with a full healthy ground and hooh

or risk something like wisp or twave

[pearl scroll]

Why the f were they using mega sceptile?😭

[proper quiver]

No fucking clue

[distant hearth]

If you don't know what they are for I would recommend to stick to the standard EV spreads listed in the SmogDex for the respective sets

[rugged belfry]

where do i find smogdex sets

[distant hearth]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/

[spare idol]

https://pokepast.es/951d67fe1b5807e8

ndubers and shit

cyclizar balance

idk im sleepy while making this

[pearl bobcat]

https://pokepast.es/7344009a8fbd9ebb

Natdex ubers HO

[weary compass]

This HO team is ok, but not great.

1. You need Stealth Rock, it changes some calcs and helps in breaking through Stall a bit, a Lead like Deo-S should do well in this regard.

2. Ho-oh, while not terrible, I don't think it fits in HO. And Pdon also Checks Zacian and Necrozma without sacrificing offensive pressure with its Double Dance set.

3. While Mega-Mewtwo-Y is REALLY good, I think Yveltal does better, it checks Shadow and Ultra Necrozma after a SD, something that is valuable for this team, while still being able to break through Pdon.

[pearl bobcat]

Swapped Mewtwo and Deo A for Double Pdon and hazards Deo S

What else do you recommend?

Any hazard removal?

[low juniper]

You have no hazards on this team so I would drop Rock Polish 3A Primal Groudon for Utility Swords Dance.
Mega Mewtwo Y doesn't need Thunderbolt compared to Ice Beam. Focus Blast is better than Aura Sphere because the latter is too weak.
Thunder Wave on Arceus-Water is a waste, you're probably better off going Offensive CM than whatever this weird loadout is.
Don't run Sleep Talk on Zygarde just run Glare. Also Tera Steel is kinda mid, Tera Water >>

[low juniper]

Ultra Necrozma has a better EV spread but its fine other than that
Arceus prefers Shadow Claw to Earthquake so it's not hard walled by Giratina-O
Ho-Oh doesn't fit on HO just go Primal Groudon
Zacian-C would rather have Wild Charge over Behemoth Blade for Ho-Oh (or Play Rough but for this team replacing BBlade is better)
Deoxys-A could have Stealth Rock over Knock Off to be a proper HO lead. Otherwise Deoxys-S is just better.

btw HO doesn't care about hazard removal outside of leads like Glimmora Smeargle or Iron Treads

[weary compass]

Replace Ho-oh for Yveltal, the team is REALLY weak to Marshadow.

https://pokepast.es/a72024653552f53a

With all that. The final result should be this:

[low juniper]

tera water is mid af on zacian-c

just use tera fighting

[sonic sleet]

u can also use tera elec if u rly want

[tropic scroll]

calyrex shadow is Not in the tier

[grand spear]

They meant Marsh

[weary compass]

Marshadow

[tropic scroll]

Ah

well

then they literally just

recommended my sample xd

https://pokepast.es/ea02f73065247781

[ionic linden]

I'm guessing natdex doubles would go in this channel, can someone please help me with this team? https://pokepast.es/7fff7bf3f824b21a

I really want to make Mega Garchomp work, and I think the best way to do it is a sand team (might be wrong)

But the main issues I've been having are tailwind tornadus cancelling out Dracovish' Sand Rush, and psychic terrain users like indeedee and tapu-lele not letting scizor bullet punch

I can give example battles if needed

[weary compass]

The entire team needs to be redone for many reasons, as a doubles player, there are MANY flaws.

1. Lack of Protect,
2. Sand doesn't really work for the Meta.
3. Mega Garchomp isn't really good.
4. Sticky Web isn't great, it's not better then Tailwind nor Trickroom.
5. All but Ogerpon-W are unviable.

[ionic linden]

for point 5, unviable?

[weary compass]

Yeah mb.

[ionic linden]

and now that you say it, galvantula sucks

[weary compass]

Yes it does.

[ionic linden]

tailwind is just better, only issue is it runs out

[weary compass]

Which is not a problem in fast paste teams.

[ionic linden]

maybe whimsicott instead of galvantula?

[weary compass]

To best use tailwind, HO is the best way to do so.

[ionic linden]

what is HO?

im sry i dont know all the abbreviations yet

[weary compass]

Hyper Offense

[ionic linden]

oh ok

I rly do want to keep megachomp tho

[weary compass]

Sorry bud. That can't do.

[ionic linden]

what's so bad about it?

[weary compass]

Many for the Metagame as it stands.

1. It's vulnerable to Incin and Rilla

2. Flutter Mane, Tapu Lele and Koko can easily deal with it.

[ionic linden]

isn't that why we have 6 pokemon? to cover weaknesses?

[weary compass]

Those other pokemon can also deal with your own teammates. That's the thing. A well prepared team will keep in mind several threats to their team.

Tahst what everyone does.

You bring a Fire Type for Rilla, they might have a pokemon that can handle it. Like Mega Salamence

Also note ND DOU is out for the time. I think bc I don't see any other ND formats.

[ionic linden]

I just played like 5 games

or do you mean the channel?

[weary compass]

The Metagame on showdown.

[ionic linden]

oh

idk it seems to be there

[distant hearth]

NDDoubles was merged to a new subsection of the NatDex section, namely the "National Dex Other Tiers" one

[ionic linden]

so why is sand bad?

i thought was good with dracovish and dracozolt having sand rush

[sonic sleet]

Sand isnt bad, rather your structure rn is

Mega ttar has so much more stats than ttar that it isnt worth running ttar over mtar

And vish and wellspring are the only other mons that are good, and id argue wellspring doesnt fit

[low juniper]

Ogerpon-H is viable wdym

[ionic linden]

https://pokepast.es/9893941e377d201e got rid of the sand like you said

Now it's a trickwind/tailroom team whatever it's called

[sonic sleet]

The sand was better

[ionic linden]

Nooooooo

Ok at least I still have a copy of the sand team

Btw is trickroom and tailwind on one team viable

[sonic sleet]

Yeah but you usually use different setters

[ionic linden]

What would you suggest for the setters?

[nimble jungle]

https://pokepast.es/516e643752486594

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[nimble jungle]

Nat dex uu

[sonic summit]

this team is not viable, please look at the viablility rankings, sample teams, and set compendium for an idea on how the tier / and optimal sets looks

[nimble jungle]

😦 k

[sonic summit]

terribly sorry i forgot to link said resources

[dry ridge]

National Dex UU (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Viability Rankings
• C&C Forum
• Role Compendium
• Set Compendium
• Speed Tiers
• Metagame Discussion Thread
• Discord
• Pokemon Showdown! Room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[nimble jungle]

U good. Btw, why do u hate modern Gen 1, 2, and 3?

[sonic summit]

1 I don't like rby mechanics, 2 i don't like gsc mechanics, 3 is just poorly run

[nimble jungle]

Aight

[raw marten]

https://pokepast.es/b2b3b1b1377b6ed4

my mono bug team

[tropic scroll]

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Earthquake
• U-turn
• Stealth Rock
• Dragon Claw

This Guy

Is Not A Bug

[hazy remnant]

flygon is not a bug type and you set the format to nationaldex instead of national dex monotype

and from first glance none of these mons seem very viable

[raw marten]

its tera bug flygon which is why its not monotype

[hazy remnant]

id recommend just picking up a sample team for the meta

you can’t do that then

[tropic scroll]

playtest your team first

this team doesnt work in monotype

tera is banned

[hazy remnant]

if this is a gimmick monotype team then see comp channel rule 4 otherwise yh you just can’t

[tropic scroll]

and even when it wasnt it only checked for the types pre tera

[raw marten]

theres an alt build aswell replacing flygon with mega scizor, this is just an ru team im using for whatever

i just made it for fun with some strength in mind

[tropic scroll]

!rule 4

man it doesnt work

anyways optimisation of the team is the first priority, and “fun” will generally come after since this is a competitive discord

second, please actually post teams for the actual meta you want, and playtest them prior

[raw marten]

It's a gimmick team i optimized best for the tier i wanted to be playing. It falls into both categories but due to flygon's terastalization strategy it sits in RU. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I'm very new to teambuilding and am trying my best.

[low juniper]

ok so how come all 3 mons that are quad weak to stealth rock dont have heavy duty boots and the only mon that ISNT weak to stealth rock does

[raw marten]

Butterfree is an honest to god stupid decision. Eviolite is on scyther to increase bulk on it and throat spray for yanmega for a better bug buzz

[tropic scroll]

yeah we dont rate those

#1024432517077540904

[raw marten]

im going to replace yanmega with fortress to have rapid spin coverage

[raw marten]

i optimized it the best i could for thr RU tier and was hoping to see if it coulkd stand on its own two legsin that tier

[tropic scroll]

well u said monotype

now your saying ru

which one is it lol

[raw marten]

okay it is a mostly monotype team meant for use in RU

[tropic scroll]

yeah it wouldnt work on both

monotype teams dont work on non mono formats

amd since this has a flygon it wouldnt be eligible for mono bug anyways

[raw marten]

my apologies, i am very new to competitive

[tropic scroll]

and from what i could gather based on a cursury glance at the tiers resources

this is bad even without the flygon

try the samples for the toer

[raw marten]

for an alternate full mono chek here

#1059658237097545758 message

[dry ridge]

National Dex Monotype (Gen 9)

• Sample teams
• Viability rankings
• Speed tiers
• Metagame discussion thread
• Discord
• Pokemon Showdown! room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[raw marten]

yanmega and flygon are replaced

[tropic scroll]

I do not rate mono

so cant help you there

have to wait for someone else

[distant hearth]

The reason Monotype teams don't work outside such formats is because you're actively hindering yourself a lot by running that kind of team in formats without such restriction, as you're stacking a lot of weaknesses and strengths, thus causing the team to have a lot of redundancy easy to explot

[winged otter]

https://pokepast.es/594b740c3b697a51

note that i forgot that miraidon was banned to ag

[distant hearth]

Is this a ND Ubers team?

[keen zephyr]

Seconding this, only 2/6 are viable and u have little to none of the things that make Bug good and Flygon isn't a bug

[pearl scroll]

This is not how you make stall in Ndubers brudda.

Stall generally has stuff like arceus and Dondozo

Who outclasses quagsire

Who folds hard to the standard overheat pdon

Big Stall ain’t gonna like this one

[distant hearth]

The power level of that team is low even for NDOU standards, and stall isn't particularly viable on the tier either, so I wouldn't recommend to go starting with that

[low juniper]

How do u insta lose to primal groudon of all things

[distant hearth]

Let's not ignore Tapu Fini having no place in stall as Misty Terrain disrupts spreading status for its team, come to think of it

[random bluff]

/tier name: national-dex

[spring marlin]

how do i improve this team (without replacing zeraora and getting rid of electric terrain)
I usually open with landourus

https://pokepast.es/e5eb4429bfdbe456

[low juniper]

what format is this

[spring marlin]

I usually do natdex ubers

I've tried switching tapu to miradon but

Miradon is banned apparently

[low juniper]

wheres the ubers at...

[spring marlin]

i swear some of the mons on there were ubers

[low juniper]

lemme rephrase actually

wheres the good ubers at...

[spring marlin]

lol

[low juniper]

wait why are u using specs calm mind

on zeraora

[spring marlin]

I wasn't really sure what move to put there so i just threw it in there

no other moves looked too useful

[low juniper]

volt switch?

[spring marlin]

i forgot that was a thing 💀

will add that

any mons i should switch out with others

[low juniper]

honestly get rid of sneasler and bundle and go for OU

this is unsalvageable for ndubers ngl

[spring marlin]

damn

kk

Any suggestions for mons to swap them with

[low juniper]

hawlucha for sneasler

and uhh

prob iron valiant for bundle

[spring marlin]

k ty

how good would this team be for natdex OU anyway

[low juniper]

ehhh not that good tbh

[spring marlin]

rip

[low juniper]

zeraora isnt that good and lando here does nothing

also treads set is for ubers

against miraidon specifically

and even treads is mid in OU tbh

[spring marlin]

any suggestions on what to do with lando

[distant hearth]

You'd want to go to https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059714627384115290 at this point

[ionic linden]

https://pokepast.es/c3f2b2c66f163841 I tried making my ND Doubles team better. Thoughts?

[pearl scroll]

Ever heard of a move called protect?

[hazy remnant]

brother can you not be condescending every time you try to give advice

im not an ndoubles player but from my knowledge room service TR kinda seems odd, youd rather a different item over room service if you really wanted to do something with that

[ionic linden]

Yeah it's kind of a filler item on whimsicott

Idk what to give it though

[grand spear]

fr they do this all the time in rates

[past flower]

https://pokepast.es/36d0fc60ec577d2f
My stister made a team

[past flower]

Please Someone rate This...

[solemn zodiac]

this is completely unviable i think

also #1024432517077540904

[past flower]

My stister made it

[sonic summit]

u can't just put 6 pokemon that you like on a team and call it a day

teams need to account for different aspects of a format/tier's metagame such as: what mons are good/common, their roles in the tier and how you can plan for that, and their interactions with other pokemon including your own.

so not much that can be said aside from "its unviable" since u need to do the bare minimum and try to learn the tier you are building for

[tropic scroll]

their sister made it

[solemn zodiac]

their sister didnt make it smh

their stister made it

[low juniper]

Triple misty explosion without the misty terrain 🔥

[sullen jackal]

https://pokepast.es/da54ffa0c4819a2e

NDUbers

I think it's pretty standard but amog

also got a win against bobsican with this team so that's a trophy

[distant hearth]

My team is weak to CM llamas, so that doesn't necessarily say much
There's no glaring issues with this team

[sullen jackal]

It's a trophy winning against you is what i meant

Also ty

[hazy remnant]

yeah bob’s right this team’s fine, the only thing i can rlly think of on this team is considering changing tera fairy zyg for water

but honestly it doesnt matter much here

[tropic scroll]

tera fairy on groundceus

opposing yvel is scary

cm dark also looks scary for this

act with fairy ground it should be fine

[low juniper]

^^ also helps against ice types (esp kyurem black)

[tropic scroll]

[sullen jackal]

Opposing yvel was tough

I realized

Ty lol

[hollow dock]

Can someone rate this team for me? https://pokepast.es/bef5f3e6ad15ffd8

[low juniper]

what tier is this

this looks like ndou

also ur team isnt even complete whats with all the slashes

[distant hearth]

https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059714627384115290

[hollow dock]

Oh srry

[winged otter]

https://pokepast.es/683beb834a97781a

national dex ubers

[distant hearth]

All the species here but Hatterene and Gothitelle are heavily outclassed for the power level of the metagame, and Hatterene is a very niche pick exclusive to Trick Room teams anyways. I would really recommend to look for a sample team and the Viability Rankings so you may familiarize with the metagame, or try your hand at a lower tier

[grand spear]

bold girl kisser
looks at nature
adamant

[low juniper]

Wheres the ubers

Water sport roserade...

[winged otter]

To weaken groudon

[solemn zodiac]

i do not think you live any hit regardless

even w that up

[low juniper]

Ur ass isnt living precipice blades

[solemn zodiac]

does he even live like

heat crash

[hushed zealot]

whys there life orb on roserare and no damaging move doesn't it increase damage

roserafe

roserade

**

[tropic scroll]

why is that the question u asked

why is there a roserads in the first place

[low juniper]

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Roserade in Harsh Sunshine: 1176-1386 (362.9 - 427.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

it kills it almost 4 times over

idt water sport is gonna save it

[distant hearth]

Double Dance Primal Groudon 6-0s this

[low juniper]

gdarm can 6-0 this

[weary compass]

Use sample teams. This team is REALLY bad.

[sullen jackal]

primal ground.

[distant hearth]

Autocorrect SMH

[winged otter]

i disagree because i won

[weary compass]

You're low ladder then.

If you want to see the truth, we'll battle.

[winged otter]

k

[pearl scroll]

So how did it go my guy?

[sonic summit]

theres no reason be condescending just call the team unviable and refuse to rate it

[winged otter]

i beat a team that had both p-groudon and yvletal on it so i think i know what im doing here

[pearl scroll]

Look at the team first

Then see no viable mons

No viable mons would be a good way to describe it

[sonic summit]

oh yes I saw the team

the point still stands

[pearl scroll]

The best rate is that this is unviable and you should put on some viable mons for sure

Like something on the VR rankings

[pearl scroll]

This was the comment I gave

[sonic summit]

i'm not arguing that but there is no reason to badger someone who doesn't seriously want help

[pearl scroll]

Oh, ok.

[sonic summit]

like I would've stopped interacting somewhere around here

[pearl scroll]

That’s reasonable.

[tropic scroll]

goatttt

i beat a arceus and primal kyogre with my weedle team

[keen zephyr]

One win does not a team make

[weary compass]

Yeah don't waste time on him. He's very much likely to be low ladder.

A high ladder team would make quick work of his team.

[distant hearth]

Once I could beat a Yveltal with an Unown team, does not make it good

[low juniper]

Sorry mate

[sullen jackal]

LOL

Ok this is flames tho

[lean wadi]

https://pokepast.es/ef9f4de92d775feb

[winged otter]

arceus destroys half of this team

otherwise it's pretty solid

[swift pewter]

metagross kartana ceruledge are all bad

[weary compass]

This team has severe issues. I'd recommend you check some sample teams.

To give an idea what those issues are, your team is seriously weak to Yveltal, Eternataus, and Pdon, all some of the best pokemon in the format.

Zacian-Crowned also does a solid job against your team.

[low juniper]

more like hes running 1 D tier uber and 2 non-uber unranked mons

both of which are severely outclassed by mons like zacian or pdon

[crimson obsidian]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-viability-rankings-update-6-at-post-231.3712169/

you should take a look at the VR as it was updated very recently

[distant hearth]

Ceruledge is more comparable to Marshadow or even Chi-Yu than Primal Groudon per-say, although you'd usually want Primal Groudon on a team for starters
Kartana is indeed outclassed by Zacian-C, and Mega Metagross is entirely outclassed by Necrozma-DM (in particular Ultra Dragon Dance is good in hyper offense)

[crimson obsidian]

The VR also has links to analyses that provide good info for helping to build around a particular pokemon in general. It is hard to say that x would be a good replacement for y when so many mons need to be replaced

[hazy remnant]

this is not solid chief icl it’s just straight up unviable

[weary vine]

https://pokepast.es/71b4582e0ed5faf5

my first time making a HO team

[marsh lagoon]

so imma be honest 5/6 mons on this team are not viable

and the sixth does not fit here

[weary vine]

so it sucks

[marsh lagoon]

yes

[weary vine]

idk what to do

[marsh lagoon]

i would recommend taking a look at the viability rankings to see what is good in the tier

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-viability-rankings-update-6-at-post-231.3712169/

[weary vine]

i know but

idk if you know this game

i play something called pokemon brick bronze

its a smaller game

and it does not have alot of those mons

[hazy remnant]

we can’t help build teams for those

[solemn zodiac]

isn't that game dead

[hazy remnant]

nah it came back

[marsh lagoon]

!pixelmon

[dry ridge]

See rule 6 of #1030567099703242903 message

[solemn zodiac]

yeah but as a knockoff riht

not actually as pbb

[hazy remnant]

but regardless we only help teambuild for official smogon or pokemon metagames

[solemn zodiac]

i think its like

loomian legacy or some shit

[weary vine]

no no

its the same thing

minor changes

new mons

[marsh lagoon]

thats great, still wont be helping

beacuse arbitrary restrictions are painful to build around

[solemn zodiac]

yeah regardless we rate smogon formats here

[marsh lagoon]

and we do not understand a meta of a fangame

[hazy remnant]

that’s what i said 🗿 ‼️

[weary vine]

yes

ok

[low juniper]

Marshadow working overtime

[crimson obsidian]

Rating and helping with a team for that game is outside of our scope

[silver prairie]

https://pokepast.es/039c182d12a917de im tryna mess around with giratina

[sonic summit]

seems like a pretty solid team

Calyrex might cause trouble if you aren't bulky Pogre tho

also not super sure on Scarf Yveltal here since DD Ultra Necrozma is still a chore to beat

[hazy remnant]

i don’t think scarftal needs heatwave either no?

you’d rather have knock off if i’m not mistaken and go mixed

[silver prairie]

I added heatwave to catch zacians off guard since they’ll use yvel as a free sd

[hazy remnant]

you click foul play if you’re predicting sd

[silver prairie]

Trueeeee

Aight

[hazy remnant]

right foul play is the move on mixed

fplay oblivion knock/defog/toxic/taunt uturn

[silver prairie]

Aight thank you

[hazy remnant]

be sure to run mixed evs

[silver prairie]

👍

[silver prairie]

https://pokepast.es/e87560499207f072 I wanted to mess with victini, bolt strike kos wall breaker kyogre after 1 layer of spikes, and v create decimates zacian

[sonic summit]

opposing Yveltal look pretty annoying tbh

Zacian soft checks but that's about it :/

[silver prairie]

What could I substitute out?

I was really unsure of kyogre

[sonic summit]

the least invasive option would be to run Arceus Water or Fairy

or drop Yveltal for CM Arceus Dark

why is Victini Zen Headbutt

doesn't really hit anything, Toxic or Trick is probo better

[silver prairie]

Aight thanks for the input gang, gonna fix the team

[round quartz]

ndubers team https://pokepast.es/1af1256fdeada29b

i spent a min lookjng overcthe teambuilding compendium its possible i missed an important thing to counter

i think i can swap zygarde for groudon and kyogre for eternatus

[hazy remnant]

i dont see anything super glaring, maybe mbeam etern could be a bit annoying to deal with and i personally would go toxic over will-o on darkceus but other than that nothing super bad

yveltal also looks like it could probably be annoying here

[round quartz]

alr

[round quartz]

is flutter mane > marsh possible then?

or smth of the sort

[hazy remnant]

flutter mane is not good, marsh is fine here

well clarification before adem kills me, flutter mane isn's that good

you could try running yveltal over kyogre and fairyceus over darkceus

or swap out ferro for another mon like zacian

[round quartz]

yea wasnt expecting it to be too good

[hazy remnant]

ferro's solid it can work in this team

s'just one idea you can try

[round quartz]

i meant bout flutter but yea

imma try the yv>ky and fairy>dark

[round quartz]

and ty for helping btw

[low juniper]

why adamant on victini? wouldnt jolly be better to always outspeed stuff like boosted rayquaza or scarf yveltal? also why victini anyways i feel like marshadow would work better here especially since darkceus looks a bit annoying for this team

even the final gambit niche is done better by annihilape (who can OHKO offensive etern)

[low juniper]

a bit of a nitpick but no stealth rock is a bit eh

maybe utility SD pdon over zyg?

[sonic summit]

its not killing either anyways so

[low juniper]

bolt strike is still useful to RK yvel

and ray if thats chipped enough

or if its spammed dragon ascent

[crimson obsidian]

fwiw if you are going to drop pdon and you arn't running stall / ho ferrothorn is pretty much mandatory. As others mentioned lo yv can be a bit of a struggle so defensive pogre may be worthwhile since it helps a bit v that

[tropic scroll]

why is this the first question u guys ask

and not

“why tf is there a victini”

[sonic summit]

why

[crimson obsidian]

how're you going to handle pogre on balance / bo w/o either ferro or pdon?

[sonic summit]

Bulky Etern + offensive check i think

[low juniper]

"i wanted to mess with victini" READ

[crimson obsidian]

It is doable though answering it offensively and defensively are two different things. HO can definitely do. stall is fine v wallbreaker sets but gets rolled over by defensive sets

honestly i think you'd probably want ferro + bulky etern + an offensive check

[sonic summit]

that much stacking is kinda OD tbh

[crimson obsidian]

yeah hence the it is nearly impossible w/o pdon

[sonic summit]

kek i said that then remembered I have a team like this

[crimson obsidian]

pdon gives you a decent soft check to defensive pogre and a very soft check to offensive pogre + offensive pressure

yeah it can be done w/o pdon but unless you want to run ho you're going to be very limited in terms of what you can fit. Neon likes tera water garg to sponge a hit and salt cure, but I havn't used that

I have my issues w/ the the team, but r8 brought this v me in the trios finals and at that point is was probably the first non HO or stall team I'd seen in a very long time that I don't think primal groudon would improve https://pokepast.es/42f71a4ca0af2ac5

[tropic scroll]

Well yeah

if i said i wanted to mess with kakuna are u helping me build with it

[low juniper]

yea?

[tropic scroll]

tini doesnt do anything in this meta that literally anything else does better

[tropic scroll]

thank god you arent rating then

[low juniper]

[tropic scroll]

js make that guy cm fairy and the team is fine

or normal defensive fairy

or etern

[hazy remnant]

difference between victini and other mons here is that it isn’t really an arbitrary rule they’re imposing cause you could theoretically stretch it to work and they’re cooperating in all other regards

[tropic scroll]

ok well

swap it

[hazy remnant]

if we can have swadloon be able to do something then i think it’s fine albeit incredibly fringe and probably not outstanding

[tropic scroll]

because right now

marshadow 6-0es

fairyceus gives us a soft check etern gives us a harder check

[round quartz]

cool

oh i forgot

fairyceus has it now

[sonic summit]

AS THE ORIGINAL RATER

i didn't dismiss Victini because it was kinda implied that they knew it was shitty going in

so I said nothing

[hazy remnant]

yuh

[digital thunder]

https://pokepast.es/d8841e76796cc6aa

ubers 🔥

[solemn zodiac]

No.

[digital thunder]

wdym no

i spent hours coming up with my leer + tail whip strat

[hazy remnant]

this is not viable in the slightest chief

[digital thunder]

dont be silly

leer + tail whip fucks incredibly hard

[grand spear]

🧌

[digital thunder]

its actually

[sonic summit]

ok but fr tho don't waste our time if you aren't trying to make a serious competitive ubers

[low juniper]

tera in gen 1?

[digital thunder]

whats tera

and gen 1? you just mean pokemon right

[low juniper]

[uncut gulch]

https://pokepast.es/cee21ba47ebdc758
https://pokepast.es/353d697d2007c7a6
rate my 2 natdex normal type teams

lmk which one is better

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[soft lion]

I prefer the second one. It's the closest to complete. The HO one has some stuff that could use more work than the balanced.

Ursaluna probably wants SD or Drain Punch instead of Rock Slide.

Zoro could maybe benefit from U-turn > Wisp. That or just change to Specs/Z since you already have Ditto as pseudo speed control.

[buoyant jolt]

Ditto > Luna and NP Z Horoark?

[atomic salmon]

echoeing off of style, second one pretty dope and i would personally go on ursaluna, D Punch over slide to shit on steel better. I also would take some evs off of health and bump em into speed, i would put like 84 into speed so you just out speed hisuian goodra. I think the p2 set is fine however i would go f play over toxic since you lack ditto you are bound to get set up on a lil easier so punishing shit like scizor is appreciated. Horo set dope if you want to keep scarf i would add U-turn over Wisp. or Go Z Happy hour on it. I think we can forgo the scarf on it as we can abuse Chansey by T waving fast mons in the process. up to you tho. i would also just make chansey evs phys def as well, it needs it and you already naturally bulky on special side so 😄 overall dope team

[silver prairie]

https://pokepast.es/64e2f9251ea8f871

[hazy remnant]

are you trying to work with mmeta here knowing it's already subpar or are you content dropping it

[silver prairie]

I already know bro ain’t the best of best

[hazy remnant]

fair enough then

only real issue i can see is you're missing 4 evs on pogre

[silver prairie]

Oh yeah

[hazy remnant]

also i think you can get away running a different tera type on fairyceus since you have double priority ghost and dark with yvel and gira for dealing with unecro

[silver prairie]

And either Tera water and steel is good?

[hazy remnant]

uhh i was thinking more tera poison/ground

[silver prairie]

Aight I’ll go ground, thank you

[buoyant jolt]

thats p generous

its completely unviable

[silver prairie]

True, I just like funny off meta

[hazy remnant]

yh this is a case of like "yeah it's bad and im aware of it but im willing to have it optimized regardless" imo i think this is a pass

[silver prairie]

My victini team going strong, hit top 100 with it

[buoyant jolt]

ok well

[buoyant jolt]

shouldnt the mmeta have Bullet Punch then

bc afaik thats the only reason to use it

[low juniper]

Even then just use mega lucario

[crimson obsidian]

fwiw, there isn't really a reason to use mega metagross. If you're looking for a faster physical wallbreaker CB marshadow is a great option that wholly outclasses it

the thing with a lot of the d ranks is that some of them arn't entirely unsuable. You can use them on the ladder and you'll certainly win some games. The issue is that there is almost always some other mon that can do exactly that you're looking for from that mon and more

When you look at the C rank mons, they are not splashable at all, but they are still very good on certain teams or structures and the payoff for using them is worthwhile so long as they're on an appropriate team that can provide the right support (i.e. arceus grass/ steel / flying, chi yu, or garganacl)

[distant hearth]

Mega Metagross is outclassed by Solgaleo, which in turn is outclassed by Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
There's a large gap in terms of Speed tiers between 100 (Chi-Yu) and 125 (Marshadow), so Mega Metagross isn't as fast as one would think for the standards of the metagame

[rough loom]

So I have a nat dex monotype team and I’m thinking of changing my victini set but idk if I should

[sonic summit]

would need to see the full team to be rated

anything short of that shouldn't really go here as that's not really the point of the RMT channels

[rough loom]

https://pokepast.es/42e82bfaefc505b6

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rough loom]

I just changed victini sets but idk if I should revert and also changed munkidori to slow bro

[sonic summit]

one of those guys should be able to help eventually, I'm not really experienced with Monotype sry

[worthy fjord]

There's a disconnect meow

[sonic summit]

might be an issue on your end

[worthy fjord]

Why screens when you dont have much sweepers

[sonic summit]

oh that's what u mean

[rough loom]

My bad

[worthy fjord]

Also you sort of need a choice scarf user or a answer vs meowscarada

[rough loom]

Victini blue flare could be a sweeper I think but my current build isn’t the best

[worthy fjord]

Tho I think Peter should be able to bear it, but the issue is peter is kinda bad and passive against most of else

[worthy fjord]

Vic gets Z-Celebrate/omniboosts to be a sweeper of its own

[rough loom]

Peter is meant to be a defensive wall that just sets up forever then spams stored power

[worthy fjord]

Notably being faster than some scarfs at +1

[rough loom]

Ok

That’s what I was running but can’t run celebrate and blue flare

[worthy fjord]

You can use Searing Shot >:3

[rough loom]

That’s so much better than v create thanks

[worthy fjord]

This still tho

[rough loom]

And does slowbro fit or should I switch to a scarf

[worthy fjord]

Would kinda suggest having choice scarf Iron boulder if ever

[worthy fjord]

You can switch to a different water resist, like NP Celebi

[rough loom]

Is iron boulder good even though it basically doesn’t have a ability

[worthy fjord]

Yea its just fast

[rough loom]

Ah

Who should I get rid of?

[worthy fjord]

It would be cress

Also with all these stuff tho

It seems we end up with 5 spattackers and boulder, which isnt really ideal since boulder isnt really strong

[rough loom]

Shouldn’t I run booster energy iron boulder because that also boosts 1.5 and doesn’t lock in

[worthy fjord]

You could try to check out if you'd like M.Gallade over M.Zam since Gallade can setup with SD and stuff

[rough loom]

Oh wait never mind

[worthy fjord]

Booster is banned in meowno

[rough loom]

I like alakazam but would standerd ballade be good?

[worthy fjord]

@celebi vs cress tho, you should probably check if Cress can take hits from M.Pert and Exca. If it csn then you dont really need celebi then

[worthy fjord]

SD Knock Close Combat Triple Axel/Zen

[rough loom]

Cress can tank quite a lot plus levitate and sp def up

[worthy fjord]

The issue is moonlight is just awful in sand / rain while celebi automatically threatens these and has recover

Also both are phys attackers so spdef doesnt really matter

[rough loom]

Ok so plan is
Swap cress with celebi
Revert victini set
Get rid of something and add iron boulder or ballade

[worthy fjord]

Also I can see AV lele working but maybe with a slight improvement in moves? Moonblast is just better than Dazzling and Psyshock lets it deal with Volcarona for instance

[rough loom]

Didn’t think it had moon last

Who should I get rid of for gallade/boulder

Currently team looks like
Deoxys
M-Alakazam
Tape-lele
Slowbro
Victini
Celebi

[worthy fjord]

No need for bro

Get boulder

[rough loom]

Ok

What’s a good set for celebi

[worthy fjord]

NP Giga Drain Earth Power Recover

263 actual speed, rest in Bulk (HP/Defense)

[rough loom]

Why NP

[worthy fjord]

I mean you can use CM if you'd prefer, but with a +2 boost you get to do enough damage to dissuade Toxapex from just hazing you

[rough loom]

I thought you meant nature power 💀

[worthy fjord]

Earth Power can also be Psychic if you want CM, since it technically hits both Pex and Clod

[rough loom]

That’s basically what I had in mind just changed one move to giga drain

[worthy fjord]

But EP also directly hurts Exca

[rough loom]

Rocky helmet on it or leftover or something else

[worthy fjord]

Leftovers is better, but you can use weakness berries (like Colbur for Greninja, or Tanga if you're really scared of CB X Scissor Exca [tho you still lose probably])

[rough loom]

Kk

https://pokepast.es/5f8a17589e7c64ac

Updated link

I think that’s a decent set also I changed close combat to sacred sword because gallade has sharpness (other ability’s aren’t that good)

[worthy fjord]

Boulder over gallade

Psyshock probably on AV Lele for dealing with special attackers like Volcarona

[rough loom]

Got it

Picked gallade because one of my favorite pokemon

gonna switch tho

Just run the smogon set for boukder?

Mighty cleave
Close combat
Earthquake
Megaton

[worthy fjord]

Yea

[rough loom]

Got it thanks

Gonna go plag some games then thanks for the help

[sharp scroll]

https://pokepast.es/dfd83feb9bb8db7e is a thunder team and
https://pokepast.es/b5eeac4a7d60ea44 is a niche mons team and https://pokepast.es/d83b53cfd5a54370 is a halfway sun team

all are gen 9 natdex

[sonic summit]

you were already in the right place

#1059714627384115290

[sharp scroll]

oh nvm rip

[low juniper]

literally all of these teams are unviable

[sharp scroll]

yes i found or

Out

[sharp scroll]

Can u check the one i posted in natdex ou

[ionic flicker]

https://pokepast.es/61635644e502620e

Thoughts? Cuz this is my first Nat Dex doubles team

[flat mist]

NatDex UU Hyperoff

I was playing in OU originally but all the pokemon I love using are in UU or lower anyway, so I made the switch! I’m having fun with the team so far.

https://pokepast.es/08a6d164f701658a

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex UU RMT @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sonic summit]

Excadrill doesn't really belong on this team and you get far more mileage with replacing it for an Air Ballon Aegislash, and giving Smeargle Rapid Spin instead of Nuzzle

aside from that its kinda ok? just need to fix up some of the sets being suboptimal

just a fairly quick trip to the set compendium and u should be fine https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-uu-set-compendium-updated-for-dlc-2.3711945/

Moth wants Speed Boosting Energy with either Sub or Morning sun , the 3 attacks should almost always be Fdance, Sludge Wave, and Eball

Blacephalon also prefers Grassium Z + Solar Beam with Calm Mind to lure Ting-Lu and Tyranitar
Blacephalon @ Grassium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 236 HP / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Solar Beam
• Calm Mind
• Shadow Ball
• Flamethrower

[flat mist]

Ty!

[wraith heron]

for mono bug

https://pokepast.es/e060f833f2b4ce07

[dry ridge]

New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[worthy fjord]

Scarf swole now outclassed by Scarf Kleavor because Kleavor's stone axe+pivoting op

Rabsca isnt really good, you're better off getting a Mega Pinsir (or M.Scizor, or M.Hera) since you dont have ine yet

You can use swole still tho, just use the sub bu set if you wan

[wraith heron]

I had mega pinsir at first but then I only end up with 1 special attacker, also it doesn't seem to outspeed a lot of mons

I want to have atleast 2 special mons, I picked rabsca coz of revival blessing utility on the side

[worthy fjord]

Yeaaaa bug is awkward like that

Rabsca isnt really helpful as you're usually not firing more than 2 moves with him

You could try Vika/Ribombee, but getting phys attacker #5 is usually more optimal

[worthy fjord]

It gets quick attack btw >:3

[wraith heron]

I only know webs ribombee

[wraith heron]

Ik

[worthy fjord]

QD Ribombee is soo awkward but it exists...

[wraith heron]

And vika doesn't outspeed anything even with webs

What do u think about galvantula?

[worthy fjord]

It works, the main difference is vika can potentially stall out electric terrain and is bulky, while galvan's damage output isnt that great, but its fast

Galvan can run agility/thunder/eball/HP Ice to clean late-game Water/Flying tho

[wraith heron]

Is agility set good on a webs team?

[worthy fjord]

Its ok, since birds arent affected by webs

And barra is still faster/scarf gren

[wraith heron]

Should it be sashed?

[worthy fjord]

You can try out sash or boots

I think boots would do better