NatDex Other Tiers

[brazen atlas]

https://pokepast.es/4598bbab0dc99213 9gen nat dex uber ,how to improve this team?

[valid sundial]

https://pokepast.es/50043af949c38915 gen 9 nat dex "ag" team (quotes, because where I'm playing, we have one constraint: "one legendary per team", but otherwise nat dex ag fits the best).
First actual one I built for competitive use, -so please don't be too harsh-, I really like the z-happy hour hisui-zoroark, but I'm not really sure about the rest. How should I improve it? Please, if you do make some changes, explain why you made them, I'd really like to learn and get into the right mindset.

[tranquil trail]

definitely not an ndag person but can help with some fundamentals ig

flamethrower garchomp is kind of an oldgen thing because it doesnt hit hard (0- SpA Garchomp Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 110-130 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- 69.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery) so better to just go with stabs + sd + rocks or go offensive mega with a lot of spa investment to make the fire coverage actually stick

greninja is super weak before battle bond and only gets a one-time boost when koing something so id probably say its not a good mon, plus you have a pretty bad dragon weakness so maybe put a fairy here instead

id figure miraidon is better than latios if youre going for dragon/electric coverage

amoonguss might want stun spore over toxic to deal with attackers more

z-happy hour isnt very good because zoroark typically just uses choice specs and surprises the opponent by ohkoing something, using a one-time setup move that doesnt boost that much is pretty mediocre

kingambit is better than bisharp and knock off is better than foul play because its boosting with sd

no idea what a ndag 1 legendary only meta looks like though

[valid sundial]

Good points, I did actually notice greninja's weakness in-battle, wasn't really cool to have it one-shot by another zoroark, but eh. Suggest any good fairy types?

Anyways, i'll try to figure out something and I'll come back with an update.

Btw, from what i've been able to tell, most people use their legendary spot for high-offense, typically uber mons, idk, like pretty obviously mega rayquaza, swords-dance hyperspeed arceus with substitute, and the likes.

I've actually found myself losing pretty often to the latter, that monster hits like a truck and can basically one-hit KO everything in my team, so yeah

[tranquil trail]

idk maybe like clefable or mega altaria

sd espeed arceus is def incredibly strong

[valid sundial]

Was thinking about mega diancie. What do you think?

magic bounce seemed kinda nice (?)

[tranquil trail]

theoretically considering you have no hazard removal but tbh id just add hazard removal

i thought mega alt for koraidon/miraidon

[valid sundial]

never seen those two tbh, so should be fine

[tranquil trail]

hm

[valid sundial]

https://pokepast.es/9420280bd086419b here's where I'm at, removed fthrower from garchomp (not sure if dragon tail is best though), changed zoro's set to have choice specs and hex, bisharp -> kingambit, added diancie-mega and changed toxic on amoonguss to stun spore, have an additional slot and was thinking about a water type since i have basically no ground coverage

[tranquil trail]

need to fix the evs on chomp since no special moves anymore

[valid sundial]

ah ye ur right

[tranquil trail]

supreme overlord on king is usually better

diancie def wants coverage like ep/mystical fire over toxic/heal bell because its offense far outshines its bulk

[valid sundial]

earth power?

[tranquil trail]

yeah

hits steels

mystical fire hits ferrothorn/corv/skarm

speaking of ferrothorn it wouldnt be a bad idea to use it to check arceus

[valid sundial]

hm

what do I do about ground types though?

[tranquil trail]

you do have both ferro and amoonguss to hit them though now that i think about it those are kinda redundant

probably replace amoonguss with a water

[valid sundial]

rip amongus

[tranquil trail]

he was ejected

[valid sundial]

well anyways, I think i can handle it from here, I'm not gonna bother you anymore

but ty veeery much for your help

[tranquil trail]

np

gl

[valid sundial]

thx

[keen sphinx]

yo ik this is the wrong channel probably but what yall think a good underrated mega power wise

[sonic summit]

you're right this is the wrong channel

go talk in comp-general

[hazy remnant]

https://pokepast.es/f93eaf38cfd53ecb
National Dex Ubers
a hazard stack team, wanted to try and utilize mega diancie

[fathom vessel]

https://pokepast.es/6fac5cc4843be54a
Natdex Doubles

I've been wanting to figure out how to make this team better but I'm scared if I change anything it'll all fall apart, any advice on making this team better? (I want to keep Regigigas and Weezing because they're fun and silly)

[sonic sleet]

You have a few good pokemon here and there, but regigigas is rly not worth it here

You also have some weird sets and gyarados isnt good

I cant advise you to look at samples rn but samples will be updated after this teamtour ends

[fathom vessel]

Oh sick alright!

[fathom vessel]

I consider Gigas like a mascot, he's funny hence why he's there

[dusty thicket]

this is the time where we talk about "we only rate strictly competitive teams with no pokemon bias or arbitrary rules"

[left oxide]

https://pokepast.es/d028de76f496e1b6
first run at a 2v2 team basically in 10 years using concepts i like rather than good concepts, really looking for any upgrades but i wanna keep a support thundurus and contrary assault vest enamorus

[sonic summit]

wrong channel, https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059657287293222912 or https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1060682530094862477 are your friends.

[left oxide]

thank you

[blissful turtle]

pls rate my team, sorry if this the wrong channel i’m new to pokémon battling 😅

[normal musk]

#1059714627384115290

id also recommend using pokepaste

its better than screenshotting all the sets

[blissful turtle]

alright thank you 🙏🏼

[dusty thicket]

ash greninja still exists?

i though it's just new battle bond

[normal musk]

in gen 8 nd it does

[dusty thicket]

oh i'm dumb

lol

[edgy sparrow]

however cinderace and pult are not ou in gen 8

[sonic summit]

you can select ash-gren in the builder but it immediately reverts back to base-gren on game start

[tepid whale]

https://pokepast.es/35eeaea916c054e0

can some1 rate my team

[sonic summit]

None of these mons are viable

Please look at the viability rankings when teambuilding

[hazy remnant]

^

[hazy remnant]

Lugia’s ass is NOT viable it’s D/UR on the vr

[sonic summit]

VR Rankings are not the rule of law, but that person wasn't even trying to color inside the lines

Lugia sees some very very niche usage on Stall teams and is ass everywhere else

[hazy remnant]

Yea

Not rule of thumb ofc but it’s a general indicator

[hazy remnant]

just use lunala…..,,,

or hooh..,,,,, (specifically for raiden)

[verbal oasis]

https://pokepast.es/b1c39e882ae41fe4 i stole this team from the nd uu bazaar thread, changed the keld set, played some games and realized that it loses super hard to gzap

[dry ridge]

New NatDex UU RMT @fleet sand, @alpine helm. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[verbal oasis]

would aegislash over celes be a good enough fix that wont have any major consequenses?

[fleet sand]

Aegislash doesn’t actually fix gzap issues, it’s quite broken so you might just have to find a workaround

[verbal oasis]

how so?

[fleet sand]

Throat chop basically one shots it

[verbal oasis]

it resists the moves!

and kins shield is bad bc it gives it +1 right

[fleet sand]

Yes

Not to mention it can do taunt + fly z to one shot sword form

[verbal oasis]

wait z fly or z bbird

[fleet sand]

Z bird, same thing

[verbal oasis]

one implies ppl run fly

[fleet sand]

I’m just talking about the actual crystal

Not the move

[verbal oasis]

then what do i do

[fleet sand]

But either way I can help you in a minute, there are ways around this issue

[verbal oasis]

my fighting resist is an intim mon

[fleet sand]

I’m not home quite just yet

But generally the solution is some fast electric type or a better resist

Like for example slotting in some sort of thundurus

[verbal oasis]

where? over what?

[fleet sand]

I’m getting to that part, one second

Oh you can actually just do skarm over steela instead

Slightly better gzap matchup if you run brave bird

Since I noticed this spread is more defensive oriented

You can just use skarm for that job

[verbal oasis]

its mixed tho

wont i miss the specially defensive part?

[fleet sand]

No not really, ting lu covers that too

[verbal oasis]

fair enough

252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

hmm

[fleet sand]

Huh

[verbal oasis]

also if gzap is so broke why is it only b+

[fleet sand]

Well, there’s more broken stuff that keeps it down

Tera poison psychics do exist

[verbal oasis]

hopefully not for long lol

[fleet sand]

Latis primarily

Are like the top dogs

And aegislash exists to beat them and beat other top threats with Tera

https://pokepast.es/d22217d44b9369c2

you could try this structure if you want even harder walls to fighting

and then you can put pack the steela too if you want

[verbal oasis]

what would be the thundy set

[fleet sand]

Frankly I don’t know, anything you can think of works

Uturn, tbolt, volt switch, grass knot, twave, knock off

focus blast, defog, hp ice, tera blast, nasty plot

are all functioning moves

[verbal oasis]

im guessing its thundy over zera bc thundy has a better mu vs the big man tingler

[fleet sand]

yeah pretty much

it can also learn psychic

so mega venasaur isnt an issue too much

https://pokepast.es/41f8f8032bb168cb

alternatively you can use this

[verbal oasis]

lati keld as my dual cm mons

[fleet sand]

lati can also be a defogger

but yeah thats the idea

[alpine helm]

https://pokepast.es/00fc3ce23fe19041

@verbal oasis here's how you could round things out here in case

template doesn't rlly have a fini or aegi switchin so tang fixes that

wouldn't normally recommend rocks on skarm let alone dual hazards but with dirge covering fightings and sciz

believe you can make an exception

[verbal oasis]

what are the evs on dirge for

[alpine helm]

defense is for mhera if you ever run into that, speed covers offensive benchmark and spdef is filler

[verbal oasis]

what benchmark

[alpine helm]

encore I’ve messed with for a bit but it’s great for stored power mons and sub

[verbal oasis]

a scarfed mon as my only removal?

[alpine helm]

scarf dreigon easily has room for it

esp as unlike lati it can pivot and isn’t pursuit weak

mostly click on forced switches

[verbal oasis]

what if they switch to a setter as i fog

[alpine helm]

you have pivots for most of the setters 1v1 and your breakers aren’t rlly bothered by rocks to begin with

[verbal oasis]

fair

what are the kedl evs for

[alpine helm]

so it’s usually reserved for backup or if there’s spikestack

keld evs were from an old build

but I believe amoong if you’re not planning on using tera

[verbal oasis]

what do they do

[alpine helm]

prevents giga from sub breaking at +2

[verbal oasis]

oh cool

[alpine helm]

so you cm once do it again then boom

[verbal oasis]

you never finished telling me what do the dirge evs do

what speed bench mark

[alpine helm]

you can mess with that as much as you’d like

190 I’ve done as a basis since it naturally creeps most hands, skarm, and spdef tar

[verbal oasis]

big man is pretty important

[fleet sand]

Oh yeah that’s a better idea, always forget about tang

[verbal oasis]

Why tera grass over tera ice?

Are ground waters common enough to warrant it?

[sonic summit]

Better defensive typing against grounds and waters while hitting the same targets bar the occasional Salamence

[verbal oasis]

The lati twins are right there

[sonic summit]

You have Scarf Hydrei as an offensive check tho

And then if it was the tera CM sets then Tera Ice sandy wouldn't help with that

I prefer the praticallity of Tera Grass

[fleet sand]

Yeah it’s really just the better typing

Matchups where it matters are solved by volt switch

We don’t have any ground type that likes grass but some are ok with ice

Therefore grass is used

Specs is not even necessary all the time, boots is good

[sonic summit]

Oh i didn't even realise it was specs

Boots + rocks could be nice, frees up a move on skarm too

[fleet sand]

In theory specs with spikes does exist

[sonic summit]

I only do that with scarf tbh

[fleet sand]

Scarf uses spikes here and there, tho that’s purely my opinion on using shocks

[sonic summit]

Feel like specs wants extra coverage

Or the power from tbolt

[fleet sand]

Yeah pretty much

[random bluff]

https://pokepast.es/b1c99199239fa108 AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[sonic summit]

https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059714627384115290

read the channel name next time

[random bluff]

this is UU tho

i forgot to change the tier to UU

thas my bad

i didnt even realize clodsire was banned

thats also my bad

[sonic summit]

Typically you want to play test your teams before asking people to rate them

[random bluff]

im not too fond of playtesting my teams im just not confident enough

[sonic summit]

What tier

Also this is not the place to ask for teams in general

[hazy remnant]

this team is not viable whatsoever in ndubers

[fathom vessel]

Got rid of gigas and gyrados but still having trouble

Any advice?

[fathom vessel]

https://pokepast.es/415a987da95f3f49

[verbal oasis]

bro you forgot quick attack on the fear rattata 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

[sonic sleet]

This is nd doubles right?

[verbal oasis]

The only other advice i can give is to use a sample because that team looks unplayable in so many ways

[fathom vessel]

Yeah!

[cursive idol]

https://pokepast.es/32aee8e1548a0fa8
old team i used in ubers kickoff
want to get back to the ladder

[sonic sleet]

you got some correct pokemon here and there, gholdengo and hands are good and mvenu is somewhat okay

bisharp is entirely outclassed by kingambit

i would probably prefer volcanion over heatran

[ivory field]

idk if I'm putting this in the right channel or not but pls lemme know if I should change anything, I'm struggling to test it properly cus all I get is either gimmick teams or crap ones
https://pokepast.es/8bd4953e9f45cfe4

[fathom vessel]

Problem is I have trouble using Kingambit and wanna use something else that'll compliment the team

[fathom vessel]

I've seen couple people use volcanion!

[sonic sleet]

if i had to redo this team, i would go with a 6 of
assault vest iron hands, swords dance kingambit, rillaboom, trick room jirachi, volcanion, and a dd mega salamence

assault vest iron hands helps a lot against chi yu as your structure struggles against it
swords dance kingambit can be black glasses or safety goggles
rillaboom is generally better as your zygarde matchup is dire
trick room jirachi helps kingambit and iron hands at getting going
volcanion blanket checks a lot of your problems like palafin and flutter mane, can either be substitute leftovers or safety goggles 3 attacks
dragon dance mega salamence is just a neat option when you dont have tr since you have 2 fake out and a redirection support

but

if you wanna keep the core ideas

assault vest hands, sd gambit, trick room indeedee, volcanion, flutter mane, landorus therian

is also a 6 that can work

[ivory field]

ping me when y'all look at this btw

[sonic sleet]

ill get to it rq

[hollow cape]

Pretty bad rain team imo i think u would rather just replace walking wake for smt like badculegion
I think u would rather also use another item on gholdengo than sitrus maybe leftovers (also could go hex> sbal but wouldnt recommend personally)
Sash pao> lo pao lo pao is pretty bad imo

Ill leave the rest to glimmer:3

[fathom vessel]

You mentioned trick room jirachi, how would I build that?

[sonic sleet]

dracovish and urshifu rapid strike are exclusively better at rain breaking than walking wake and benefit from chien pao
use protect on mega swampert instead of stone edge, that move doesnt have many targets that ice punch doesnt hit
earthquake is a bad move in this meta as rillaboom is the most common mon and your team alrdy struggles against it, replace it with stomping tantrum

you also need better insurance against rillaboom grassy glide so i would suggest using tsareena as that fixes up your zygarde matchup and blocks grassy glide so dracovish or urshifu rapid can go to town
no real reason in using pelipper if you arent using it for tailwind, replace it with politoed with this set
Politoed @ Eject Button
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Scald
• Encore
• Icy Wind
• Protect

covert cloak on tornadus is better to snipe the aforementioned rillaboom, use this spread
Tornadus (M) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Flying / Dark
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Tailwind
• Bleakwind Storm
• Taunt
• Protect

[sonic sleet]

Jirachi @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fairy / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 SpD
Sassy Nature

• Follow Me
• Iron Head
• Trick Room
• Protect

[fathom vessel]

Ty!

[sonic sleet]

follow me is redirection and helps mmence and gambit in setting up

[fathom vessel]

Oh yeah I love follow me

[sonic sleet]

if u have any questions about the above rates feel free to ask

[ivory field]

wait dracovish is allowed?

I thought it wasn't

[sonic sleet]

nah its allowed

its allowed but you need to play with it carefully since rillaboom if it gets to click glide shuts you down hard and volcanion exists

[ivory field]

wait what moves do I put on tsareena?

never used her in doubles

[sonic sleet]

depends on ur set

assault vest with power whip triple axel hjk u turn

or sitrus berry with power whip triple axel hjk and taunt

[ivory field]

imma go assault vest cus don't think I need 2 taunt users

so like this?
https://pokepast.es/c03b66f690e9f102

dunno what to put on urshifu

[fathom vessel]

@sonic sleet something like this then? 😈

https://pokepast.es/1e86eefc052e63b8

[sonic sleet]

https://pokepast.es/f306b2dc00e79530

[sonic sleet]

tera water or grass on urshifu with choice scarf and u turn over swords dance

[sonic sleet]

and also sassy nature jirachi

[fathom vessel]

Tyy!! I'll try it out

[sonic sleet]

oh also

idk why you have that much speed on hands

[sonic sleet]

The Slapper (Iron Hands) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature

• Fake Out
• Drain Punch
• Wild Charge
• Heavy Slam

use this spread on hands

[fathom vessel]

Bet

That was the set I was using before lol

[tepid grail]

https://pokepast.es/bd24fc2a758e7d87 taking all advice obvious strat recent pokeaim banette video nat uu

[buoyant jolt]

calling @sonic summit but Banette is very ver unviable

[fleet sand]

Well I can look at it, but yes banette is terrible, do not use it

I can see you’re going for the destiny bond + blessing strat, trust me that doesn’t work without priority assist calling blessing

Blessing itself is actually not a great move so it’s not recommended

[mossy marlin]

https://pokepast.es/381c9bee5fbaf279 is this a good nat dex ubers team?

[sonic summit]

Banette-M is a meme, don't use it ever over other Ghost types like Aegislash.
Krookodile is outclassed by Ting-Lu just use that instead
Mola is only really good on Stall or really fat balances, which this team is not, addtionally the EV is also suboptimal, Probably just run Slowbro instead
Band Cindy is bad, just run SD or Boots,
that Steela set is super passive, should be running Heavy Slam and Flamethrower at the very least. E-Ball doesn't really hit anything relevant
From what I remember Pawmot is also really mid, but its decent with Scarf + Revial Blessing, not Leppa Berry sets

[fleet sand]

Pawmot by itself is aggressively underwhelming

Of course the destiny bond + blessing is just a meme strat and we’re here to tell you how to make better teams to reliably win

[sonic summit]

I mean if we're keeping the meme then prob go Pain Split on Mbanette > Infestation

[fleet sand]

Well I’m not recommending he keep it, he’d be better off with some speed control somewhere

Like just using zeraora over pawmot

It’s just better frankly

Blessing is super niche

[sonic summit]

Fighting Stab is nice ig

[fleet sand]

It is but knock off

[sonic summit]

tru

[fleet sand]

Best upside is you hit ting lu

But 9/10 times that tinglu has a lati

So good luck

Also iron hands

[sonic summit]

Clodsire, Meowscarada, Regieleki, and Mewtwo are awful in ubers please look at the viability rankings when teambuilding so you have an idea about what's good
Addtionally Choice Scarf Arceus is bad, there is like 0 reason to be running it over Choice Band or Swords Dance
Dondozo is also only good on Stall teams and really bad everywhere else.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-viability-rankings-update-3-at-post-89.3712169/

[mossy marlin]

I used choice scarf to avoid speed tie, with other arceus, but thanks for the info. I’m currently about to go to bed, so I’ll fix it tomorrow.

[sonic summit]

again there is really no reason to do that

[mossy marlin]

Ok

[fleet sand]

In fact some normal arceus are dragon dance so the speed tie will still occur

[latent wigeon]

I need that type of help tbh I want a good overall balanced team

[fleet sand]

Well you can certainly get that help if you post a NDUU team

That’s kind of the whole point of the thread

[latent wigeon]

What should I use? Ting Lu latias and who should I replace it for and how should I run aegislash

[sonic summit]

this channel isn't for help with building teams from scratch

you should already have a team made and we simply help you improve it

[unborn zealot]

ok

[near mica]

https://pokepast.es/f4ecf06062c92474 This for a friend, i dont really like balance but he wanted so i just made this, any improvements?

[sonic summit]

https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059714627384115290

[low cradle]

Hello everyone! I need some help building a Natdex Ubers team and I rwally don't know where to start with it

[sonic summit]

We only give advice for fully built teams, you can get more help in the ND Ubers discord or the NDOT room on PS!

[marble stone]

https://pokepast.es/e20fd0e44de5c229

@sonic summit

(are we allowed to get help for the team comp?)

[alpine helm]

I’d make zone idbp to trap steels like megalix more effectively, bro should prob be physdef swampert for a ground + rocker

would also go cane on noiv for fightings and teleport last slot on blissey

usually fine as long as you're posting full teams and in the right channel

[sonic summit]

Yeah you're allowed to get help

[iron dagger]

https://pokepast.es/4078a498a9577e51

Trying to make Mono Steel

[runic sage]

Need to make heatran spdef with rocks tbh and maybe go corv > steela for defog since scarf Treads isn't the most consistent remover

So you would run heatran as like rocks magma storm/lava plume toxic earth power

Or better yet, maybe defog scizor and keep celesteela since frankly, it's better than corv imo

[pseudo coral]

hello pls rate my NatDex Ubers team, some goofy bulky double ghost thingie https://pokepast.es/7ae9f681efb425e0

[hazy remnant]

it’s aight i personally dont see anything too glaring
What’s the point of utility umbrella blissey though?

Only other issue i can see is a lack of proper speed control cause scarf raiden can hit everything (apart from hooh ofc and i think it’s enough)

Double ghost is definitely interesting, you do get hit hard by darkceus though

oh btw you can’t tera primals anymore so the tera flying is kind of redundant

[coarse crag]

Utility umbrella doesn’t work against primal kyogre, using eviolite chansey would serve you better

[hazy remnant]

^

[random bluff]

Hello pls rate my Natdex AG all-snow team https://pokepast.es/6822afc55c3c137e

[ivory field]

everything here isn't reliable

that's all imma say

[pseudo coral]

i forgor to change the item sorry

it was meant to be leftovers but tysm ill do that

[random bluff]

Idk what that means

[pseudo coral]

ah yes that's an old set im also the kind of weird guy who sets tera types on everything

thx both of u

[pseudo coral]

the team archetype itself isn't even good considering that both primal weathers exist in ndag

the mons on this team dont seem to be the best either but im not really a weather player so idk

but if u rlly needed ice type sweepers wouldnt bundle and >>> anything else? weather players come correct me here

essentially replace the entire team

[random bluff]

...with what 6 pokemon

[pseudo coral]

essentially what im saying here is

don't use weather teams in any format with primal weathers

whether that be ndubers ndag aaa mnm pastgen ubers etc

i believe u can ask others for teams

[sonic summit]

Good ones, like there is no specific suggestion I could give because the playstyle you're going for is awful in AG

Just scrap the team and start over with mons that are in Ubers at the very least

[random bluff]

What tier would you recommend this team to be in?

With the adequate adjustments of course

[sonic summit]

Monotype

[vital jacinth]

https://pokepast.es/40310c14d9089805

Doubles

[quasi garnet]

Ima be real this looks mid. Too passive to do anything offensively while still not being able to defensively handle a lot of the tier, specially since it's double rocks. Kinda don't know what ur going for, looks like a poor man's stall. Side note defensive lunala kinda mid rn imo

[verbal oasis]

wait what why

[coarse crag]

It’s heavy rain instead of normal rain

[verbal oasis]

this sucks

[sonic summit]

none of these mons are viable in ubers

please review the Viablity Rankings next tim

e

[solar pecan]

Sorry

My mistake

Bye

[vital jacinth]

defensive lunala when it sees a ghost or dark type move:

[pseudo coral]

ok got it thanks

[hazy remnant]

literally folds to darkceus or yveltal

but tbf most defensive mons struggle against the two

[coarse crag]

Lunala isn’t that bad. With shadow shield it can serve as a check to tera ground tera blast zacian (Which steamrolls the team without lunala) and ultra necrozma. Problem is that willowisp is too unreliable of a move to trust.

[quasi garnet]

I mean, ig but also it's overwhelmed or beaten by essentially every other phys Attacker and 8 pp nerf is especially big for lunala since yk :brooo:.

I say recovery nerf bigger though

[hazy remnant]

^

It’s definitely a good mon that can work on some teams it’s just, not super splashable

[pseudo coral]

fair enough

i just thought it could be nice to spread status

[hazy remnant]

ho oh and support arc forms spread will-o/twave/toxic just fine

some bulky pdon sets run toxic

Etern too

Tkiller etern can set up tspikes which can pressure opponents hard if their defogger is gone or they’re just vulnerable

[zealous plover]

If you want to use Lunala it's primarily gonna be Offensive (and though I am slightly in the minority I do think Offensive Lunala is goated with proper team support)

[dusk flame]

https://pokepast.es/01eeafde8ef8d4ac

NdUU SO, thoughts

im new to the format so

@sonic summit

[sonic summit]

Don't run choice specs on screens HO

Just make Enam CM

Ideally you just want strong setup sweepers so stuff like Harcanine, Specs Enam, and Meowscarada are not optimal

Replace Harc with Blaziken, Enam as i said just make it a CM set, replace crawdaunt with Gyarados, Meowscarada with Serperior

The mew set should just be Cosmic Power Body Press, Stored Power

Much more effective demon set than the one you have right now

[dusk flame]

and the fourth move?

[sonic summit]

Recovery

[dusk flame]

ok so im dropping kiss, as i dont get Spa buffs anymore correcy

roost would be the better option

[sonic summit]

It really doesn't matter what recovery move you run

Imprision is non existant here

[dusk flame]

no blazikenite 😔

[sonic summit]

Oh wait shit

Err about Blazikeb

You should probably find a different fire type sweeper 🥴

[dusk flame]

cm blace?

[sonic summit]

Mon is not long for this tier

[dusk flame]

as in its going up or down

[sonic summit]

Up

To UUBL

[dusk flame]

so ill just play it until it gets on borderline and then switch to ceruledge

[sonic summit]

You can still use it but you prob only get like two days at most with it

[sonic summit]

Fair

Idk if Ceru is worth it post tera ban tho

[dusk flame]

is +1 blaze fast enough for the format or do i have to run prot

[sonic summit]

Its fast enough

Under screens its not hard to get to +2 tbh

[dusk flame]

so i wont need to run sash?

[sonic summit]

No

[dusk flame]

https://pokepast.es/31006bee56742b75

alr heres the team now

[sonic summit]

Tera is banned idk if you knew that

[dusk flame]

oops

time for bounce kek

[sonic summit]

Change the gyara set to Fly + Flyium Z

Bounce i meant right

[dusk flame]

there we go

the serperior set seems odd

[sonic summit]

Sub > Dragon Pulse

[pseudo coral]

alright i'll see if i can find any samples with that ty

[pseudo coral]

okay tyty

[quasi garnet]

Nah haven't seen too many lunala teams

Prolly won't find a sample 😔

[pseudo coral]

oof

well i'll see what i can do

[quasi garnet]

Alr, just likes lead spinners on offense iirc

If you were going to build

Exca supremecacy is real (trust)

[pseudo coral]

tbf ur probably better than i am i trust u

got it ty

wait more offense team or more balance tho

[quasi garnet]

Don't 😭, also mainly HO imo

[pseudo coral]

alr then

i'll try that

tho isnt stuff like ho/hard stall a bit more difficult to pilot

[quasi garnet]

🤷, I wouldn't say so, I mean two samples are hard HO. Not sure about an exca lunala team tho since they are nicher

[pseudo coral]

i mean that's true

i guess i'll try some sample teams and familiarize myself more with the metagame before i start building with lunala again

[hazy remnant]

it’s ho,,,,, you just click buttons

Dunno about stall, i tried building a team for it and it sucked

[hazy remnant]

ndubers mmy + tkiller etern balance team

https://pokepast.es/a186be94993ab78e

[pseudo coral]

tbf im pretty sure u also have to keep webs/screens up and make sure people don't pull some shit w ditto

calamity player i see

[coarse crag]

Webs don’t stop ditto as it copies the opponent stat changes, but doesn’t keep its own when transforming

[pseudo coral]

ik those r two separate things

imposter only copies ur opp's stat changes

what im saying is that both of those things should probably be managed and that sounds hard

[wintry axle]

https://pokepast.es/656dae501dc9e882

Natdex Ubers is wild

[sonic summit]

your team is really slow

I suggest you slot some speed control on there tbh

[wintry axle]

Yeah I was thinking of going scarf Xerneas as a kind of bait cause not being powerherb

Or going back to my old team with Fairyceus rocks and then my 6th as scarf Koraidon

[unborn zealot]

https://pokepast.es/8bf994f54d6017f6

[pseudo coral]

basically no moonblast on zac, ditch amoon and pala for pdon and ho oh

idk what else since im not an expert but ye those r the glaring ones

[unborn zealot]

what id pdon?

[pseudo coral]

groudorus-therian primal groudon

||||

[unborn zealot]

https://pokepast.es/79ed9359db296921 @pseudo coral

[pseudo coral]

yea that looks alr to me i'll just wait for better players
bit weak to ice tho it seems

if ur having a hard time there's always samples

and i'd go for one of band or scarf on that korai

[quasi garnet]

Also rocks>Spikes but that's fast thing. Prolly more to be done I'm just :brooo:

[pseudo coral]

low quality galarian slowbro menusprite is such a mood

[unborn zealot]

alr

me sad D:

[pseudo coral]

o

well hopefully u feel better

[unborn zealot]

WHAT ME DO

[pseudo coral]

band or scarf

[unborn zealot]

both ok

D:

[pseudo coral]

i mean on ur set rn

[pseudo coral]

btw ur zac might wanna be sd

[pseudo coral]

ut to pdon methinks

i always go for full defensive on pdon

[unborn zealot]

k

[pseudo coral]

not an expert byea

or if ur scarf and u know the opp's slower u can dclaw

[unborn zealot]

I use dclaw

bro dead

D:

[pseudo coral]

but that might not ohko if he teras

fair

[unborn zealot]

xd

[ornate violet]

.

i tried cloud nine scarfed golduck to counter pdon

but when i used hydro pump it survived with 4%

and i died

[pseudo coral]

live groundceus reaction

this is why u dont use unmons ppl

not the best player but ik enough to know golduck is not a ndubers mon

[unborn zealot]

https://pokepast.es/72fc37153aa8b7fa @pseudo coral

[hazy remnant]

What tier is this

[hazy remnant]

Lefties on korai is just not good, you’d rather do scarf if you’re running uturn

What exactly are you trying to speed creep with those pdon evs? Id rather do stealthrock here since it’s just more convenient but that’s personal preference
Do not run power gem on groundceus, run something like ice beam, and again, what’s with those evs
Id run swords dance over play rough on zacian and make it jolly
Hooh evs are a bit odd since it looks like you’re running an offensive hooh set but the team structure leads me to believe it should be defensive (make it impish with most evs into defense, again what are you trying to speed creep here)

[quasi garnet]

Pgem on ground fair no?

[sleek oxide]

This the chat for natdex ubers?

[zealous plover]

Why yes

[sonic summit]

For teamrates yes

[hazy remnant]

Is it really?

i personally think ice beam is better value

Ig you can nuke hooh with it

i just like the freeze chance and more se coverage with it more

[quasi garnet]

• base arce and Flutter alr chilling v funny

[hazy remnant]

[quasi garnet]

Zyg not funny :brooo:

[hazy remnant]

yea zyg is a target you wanna hit which is why i recommended ice beam

[pearl mirage]

no way zyg doesnt eat a bunch from like

+1 judge

+1 248 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 208 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 226-267 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- 95% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(this is even near max spdef which like no one runs)

[quasi garnet]

Yeh base judge after a couple of boosts overwhelms

Ig its just Beam is more immediately threatening but then they just Tera :brooo:

[hazy remnant]

ye i like beam cause of the immediate pressure and also even if they tera that’s great they just used up their tera

[quasi garnet]

Ok but the zyg slot is forced Tera either if you play properly

If there's a chance ur Beam they're forced Tera or forced pivot into ho oh

Even if ur pgem

[hazy remnant]

[tall raptor]

Hi (NatDex Monotype) https://pokepast.es/1e93e745107a8ab9
I'm new to competitive pokemon btw

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @rocky saffron, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @random bluff. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[soft lion]

Drop Protect for Defog on Pelipper.

Volcanion is kind of counter intuitive as Rain weakens the Fire attacks. You're better off which Scarf Urshifu, Greninja or Samurott-H. Rotom is kind of lackluster here as well. I'd suggest Kingdra or Basculegion-F maybe to have a special Rain abuser; otherwise Specs Gren or Walking Wake could be good here too.

If you go with a third Rain abuser I'd make Toxapex Eject Button, if not I'd do Icium Z (for Z-Haze). Baneful isn't super helpful this gen so I'd put an attack on there (Scald, Knock Off, Sludge Bomb/Poison Jab).

Swampert should just 3-4 attacks, no set up. Waterfall/Liquidation, Earthquake, Ice Punch/Stone Edge/Superpower, Stealth Rock/Flip Turn.

I personally would drop one of Crunch or Psychic Fang for Flip Turn on Barraskewda, but what you have is fine if you like it.

[drifting mist]

Hi (NatDex Monotype)
https://pokepast.es/b599d9a5a7e02256

I'm kinda New with monotype

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @rocky saffron, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage, @random bluff. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[worthy fjord]

A bit of a mismatch here, if you want to go more offensive swap nacl for Shuckle, terrakion over H.Arca or Kleavor (better speedtier + you set rocks with shuc already) and omastar or nihilego over cradily

[pearl mirage]

not an expert but your team should probably be more offensive to justify glimm lead

[worthy fjord]

If you want more defensive, Id suggest using coalossal over H.Arca, probably a ttar somewhere, though uh rock being defensive doesnt sound right

[drifting mist]

Thx i will check it out

[drifting mist]

I ended up with this

https://pokepast.es/9cb8bc4f654aef26

I decides to keep garganacl because the defence that provides i think its better than what shuckle can do, besides that, i really liked the tram thx

[marble stone]

https://pokepast.es/1eec191f8500f715

NatDex Uber

[pseudo coral]

im not the best of players but

idt msab has a place outside hard stall

which your team apparently is not unless im mistaken

oh and also thunder>tbolt iirc

[marble stone]

ok

[marble stone]

why thunder tho?

[pseudo coral]

i uh

[marble stone]

dunno?

[pseudo coral]

i just rember someone telling me this

[marble stone]

xd

[pseudo coral]

i could be mistaken but i think it's the ohko on ho oh

[marble stone]

oh

ok then ty for the smol help

[pseudo coral]

👍

in the absence of better players i try my best to help

[marble stone]

https://pokepast.es/f1ac87ec8ae61d69

now for the actual ND Uber

@rich spruce

[pseudo coral]

btw just a headsup

primals cant terastallize anymore which fucking sucks pdon was born to be the best flying type in a tier

[marble stone]

ok

[sonic summit]

Marshadow looks annoying as hell

[marble stone]

then what do i do?

[hazy remnant]

offensive yvel kind of mid, runo is right marsh just blitzes through this entire team

[marble stone]

do i run defensive yvel then?

[hazy remnant]

ig yea

i was thinking more utility with stuff like knock roost n stuff

[quasi garnet]

Defensive runs fp toxic/turn fog roost

[hazy remnant]

Oh does it not run knock?

that’s probably my ssuber brain kicking in

[quasi garnet]

Nah Knock mid

I'm p sure 184 timid rest in hp and def

[sleek oxide]

How should I round this team out?

[quasi garnet]

Start over 😔

[pearl mirage]

zek is cool but this aint it unfort

[hazy remnant]

start over chief

horoark is not viable in ndubers

also rmt is used for rating finished teams, not for actual team building

[sleek oxide]

If I wanted something to climb ladder, I would have used Miraidon.

[hazy remnant]

banned

[sleek oxide]

Already cut

[sleek oxide]

Should I go to #comp-general or #1024432517077540904?

[hazy remnant]

#comp-general prolly

[sleek oxide]

#pkmn-general might be better because I'm not trying to build something for ladder/comp, just functional.

[reef oyster]

https://pokepast.es/f8abf190f07d2243

Is it good for ag?

[sonic summit]

literally only Shedinja is viable on that team

the rest are awful in AG

[hazy remnant]

ndag isnt a ladderable ladder anymore but regardless all of these mons are unviable in NDAG

except for shedinja

kyuB, megaLuc, and melmetal can be viable but on very specific team structures (kyuB on HO, megaLuc on some offense builds afaik, melmetal on tr)

but this team is none of those

[pseudo coral]

please pick this natdex mono team apart
like rip it apart
or just recommend a sample to me if it's shitty enough but here it is
https://pokepast.es/0994bdf42a00c8ae

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @rocky saffron, @random bluff, @runic sage, @random bluff. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[pseudo coral]

what the fuck there are so many raters

[random bluff]

drop the dragon its meh on normal, get a staraptor instead, that's better removal

chansey --> blissey

zoro and pz serve about the same purpose, change one to ursaluna tbh

if u keep pz, make shadow ball the 1st move, remove tri attack keep bolt beam

if u keep zoro, make it z instead

[pseudo coral]

thanks

will do that

i was considering shadow ball on pz over tri attack tbh but dropped it bc my brain was dumb

is this correct https://pokepast.es/24d4fc71e70bfd31

whoops forgor to change cyc

was gonna put a smogon set for raptor

this is the correct version https://pokepast.es/c772c57f855d0480 is it what i should be going for

[runic sage]

Stealth Rock > aromatherapy on blissey, close combat > high jump kick on mega lopunny

[pseudo coral]

alright ty i will

[worthy fjord]

you dont need Soft boiled and Wish on Blissey btw, you can just protec too

Luna can also have some speed. I technically use max speed jolly to murk 200 speed-ers like Mantine and Mandi which would be nice for M.Lop and H.Zoro

[pseudo coral]

alr

thank

so i should go max speed on bear as well?'

[worthy fjord]

you can, or just do 205...ish, but there's not a lot of bulk to be saved if you still cut the speed

also hitting M.Ven (which is usually 200 speed) is big too (Poison matchup)

[pseudo coral]

alr ty

which is more optimal btw

[worthy fjord]

just go max speed its unlikely these bulky guys actually run 219+ speed

[pseudo coral]

okiedokie tyty

[worthy fjord]

while its likely for them to be on odd numbers like 205, since there's a lot of 199 mons

I'm also not really a fan of happy Hisui Zoro, but just try it out

[pseudo coral]

alright

it is the only smogon set for normal

iirc

[worthy fjord]

it lacks the power, and doesnt really do much bar meow the Psychic matchup

yea, currently

because the other option would be choice/NP Z

[pseudo coral]

i wouldnt know how to build/ev anything else

fair

is this it https://pokepast.es/19c81c4c6efd6bf5 ignore the name

[worthy fjord]

oh well I can give you the sets Ig

[pseudo coral]

pls do

[worthy fjord]

btw Hyper Voice is an option on happy zoro; sometimes the best option is to just nuke them over trying to setup

[pseudo coral]

okiedokie got it

i just put flamethrower bc i kept seeing this mono bug dude lol

[worthy fjord]

NP Z

Ability: Illusion  
Tera Type: Normal  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Nasty Plot  
- Shadow Ball  
- Flamethrower  
- Focus Blast / Some other move```

```Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Scarf  
Ability: Illusion  
Tera Type: Normal  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
- Grass Knot  
- U-turn  
- Trick  
- Shadow Ball```
Gknot because you outspeed Pert. Also nice for Shifu

```Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Specs  
Ability: Illusion  
Tera Type: Normal  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Shadow Ball  
- Trick  
- Flamethrower  
- Psychic / Grass Knot / Focus Blast```

[pseudo coral]

thanky thanks

which one would fit my team the most?

[worthy fjord]

you sort of always want to keep lamethrower btw, fire/ghost coverage is quite good

Imo Scarf or Specs over NP because Luna provides the breaking power already

Scarf gives you some insurance vs water too

[pseudo coral]

thanks

ill run scarf thhen

[worthy fjord]

also if you want to not be boots on bliss to disguise H.Zor better, use Chansey w/ Eviolite instead

[pseudo coral]

ty uhhh

[worthy fjord]

(same moveset)

[pseudo coral]

i was told bliss > chan

so boots bliss or chan?

[worthy fjord]

if bliss, use boots
if chans, then just eviolite meow

[pseudo coral]

alright thanksp

here is the team now is it good yet https://pokepast.es/776213255f0dfbb6

[worthy fjord]

Drain Punch over SD, maybe. Not required but the healing is really nice

U-turn over CC on Staraptor can also be used to give luna more turns

aside from those it looks nice meow

[pseudo coral]

tyty

[acoustic meteor]

https://pokepast.es/d9b0b9f7f9699c23 team rate/ advice ?????

[sonic summit]

What format is this

Because this is not a viable ubers team in the slightest

[runic sage]

isnt last respects banned in ndou so by definition it is a ubers team

[acoustic meteor]

natdex uber

it it not a good team for uber??

is*

[hazy remnant]

Not viable whatsoever

Blissey is occasionally seen in ndubers but only on hardcore stall

[acoustic meteor]

the plan is stall and then sweep with either sharpido or basculigion

[hazy remnant]

Not a good plan

Like at all

You will not stall anything (Stall in ndubers is already debatably somewhat mid) let alone sweep with two mons that get shut down by pdon/darkceus

[acoustic meteor]

i dont rlly know what im doing

[runic sage]

i'd advise to look at the samples teams here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-resources-thread.3712170/#post-9426312 to get an idea of what mons are commonly used. you can also look at the viability rankings which also tell you what mons are good or not so good in the format: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-viability-rankings-update-3-at-post-89.3712169/

then you can try building another team and sending it here for rating

[coarse crag]

Stall is very good in ndubers, and is one of the most consistent playstyles

[hazy remnant]

Me personally it’s been fairly easy to dismember hardcore stall (although it takes a while), more bulky offense stally teams though are really really good ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sonic summit]

Ehh

[coarse crag]

Stall is one of the top playstyles in ndubers atm pre dlc. I know a person whose topped the ladder with an eternatus stall, and went 45-0 on a new account with it. I personally also peaked the ladder recently with my own stall.

[hazy remnant]

ruminating

[acoustic meteor]

https://pokepast.es/1a55a74119baef56 new team

[craggy trench]

https://pokepast.es/228e7e73c8caaf7b Monotype Flying Team

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt, @random bluff, @runic sage. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[runic sage]

some things to note here:

• Choice Scarf Enamorus Moonblast > springtide storm, superpower and healing wish over grass knot and sludge bomb
• you need physdef corv to handle the ice mu with body press. your current set is pretty niche in the metagame.
• i also think if you run zard y, you probably want to fit mantine you dont get run over in the water mu, zapdos isnt too necessary i feel.
• If you're going gyarados flying, you definitely want to be run moxie flying z move, with a jolly nature or you might as well run dnite

[craggy trench]

Thanks

[worthy fjord]

ftr, Grassknot and Iron Head still have a place for enam, letting you hit Ada M.Pert and Mega Diancie (quite important) respectively, you'd likely drop Earth power for this tho

GKnot isnt that needed if you have mantine tho

Gyar is a bit not synergistic here due to waterfall getting gutted due to sun, so TTK's suggestion of using dnite instead is nice >:3

[craggy trench]

hey, what set would be less niche for Corv?

[worthy fjord]

Body Press/Iron Defense or Defog or Iron Head/Roost/U-turn (would be better because you have M.Char) or Defog

[velvet rover]

Peaking at 1600 in ndubers with this team and I want suggestions
https://pokepast.es/a7a0784558923a76

[dry ridge]

New NatDex UU RMT @fleet sand, @alpine helm, @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fleet sand]

You’re missing a ground type, your method of dealing with electrics is quite poor

Not sure about SD + spikes ogre as well

Just commit to SD or spikes

Maybe consider changing iron moth to a ground

[fleet sand]

Honestly that’s pretty much up to you, theres stuff like treads/exca or maybe hippo, very much up to you

[dusty thicket]

https://pokepast.es/263a0014256cab5e

NatDex Ubers, tried to build something ho, want to keep the unec but set is changeable, everything else changeable

(well consider it sedge over xscissor now because i've just been told it's bad)

@zealous plover sorry chatot is not smart

was waiting to see if it would ping but appearently not

[zealous plover]

Not a huge fan of Unecro on Screens

They tend to benefit more from the kinda HOs that vomit hazards then win from there.

[dusty thicket]

that is fine too

i just went with screens because

it's my standard ho

lol

[zealous plover]

or just good offensive partners like Marsh

I do think Unecro is a fair bit underexplored on more standard builds, bluffing normal NDM is really valuable for setting yourself up to win late game.

[dusty thicket]

fair lmao

i just wanted to build off with unec more than anything tbh

i went with a screens ho team because i thought

[zealous plover]

HO's still fine, first thing's first I'd go Deo-S over Grimmsnarl.

[dusty thicket]

"setup mon"

lol

[zealous plover]

Also frees you up to do Double Dance PDon who's insane rn with Heat Crash.

[dusty thicket]

am new to the meta also alright

[dusty thicket]

like

rock polish sd heat crash precipice?

[zealous plover]

yep

[dusty thicket]

ok

so deo-s lead

double dance pdon, unec

keep xerneas?

because the lack of special presence so far is v real

[zealous plover]

You could do Meteor Beam Etern if you want, but Xern is still fine here.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 100 SpD / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Precipice Blades
• Heat Crash
• Swords Dance
• Rock Polish

[dusty thicket]

i like xern tbh

would i keep the same set details tho?

[zealous plover]

The sets fine.

[dusty thicket]

alright

i'm guessing i don't need the

608 speed set

now that korai does not exist?

[zealous plover]

Nope, Geo from last gen is fine

[dusty thicket]

alright

wait then why do i go

255 speed on pdon

and 256 on xerneas

(stat, not ev)

is there anything i'm missing out on

255

oh wait there is

marshadow if i get sticky webbed

and then rock polish on top of sticky web

might do 160 spe on pdon over 156 then

because i reach 384 on +1 speed instead of 382.5 -> 382

[zealous plover]

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 48 HP / 120 Def / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Moonblast
• Thunder
• Substitute
• Geomancy

You can do 48 HP to make Subs not broken by Seismic Toss

[dusty thicket]

ohhhh good one

[dusty thicket]

why 48?

oh wait

the round down thing

wouldn't 44 work then- nvm 3 sets of spikes

ok makes sense

as you can see i am a very technical person

[zealous plover]

Another thing I do like is if you're doing GeoXern you can run Kyurem Black who naturally works really well with it in overwhelming NDM and Pdon.

[dusty thicket]

fair

over m2 or arceus?

[zealous plover]

I would say Zekrom for a better MU into Ho-Oh, but you already have a Z-User, and Zekrom REALLLY likes Z-Moves.

[dusty thicket]

true

[dusty thicket]

?

[zealous plover]

M2 More likely

[dusty thicket]

alright

does it run some wacky spread

or is it just

252 atk 252 speed

(jolly/adamant)

[zealous plover]

Max Max with Jolly

[dusty thicket]

ait

also what tera?

smogon has no kyub set for sv nd waaaa

[zealous plover]

Kyurem-Black @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Teravolt
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Icicle Spear
• Fusion Bolt
• Dragon Dance
• Roost

[dusty thicket]

gotcha ty

alright, thanks a lot

do i keep arceus?

[zealous plover]

Roost can be swapped out for Scale Shot or smth if you're feeling gutsy, but Roost I think is better since it's your main retort to Pyogre besides just trading a mon and hitting back.

that and Scale Shot kinda just hits nothing

[dusty thicket]

nah roost is cool

and yea

boltbeam just

[zealous plover]

https://pokepast.es/4c741b2d3dbbc881

This is what I think would be the best direction to take.

[dusty thicket]

thanks a lot

[zealous plover]

Dragon Dance is an interesting option on Arceus for not having to play mindgames with Marshadow.

[dusty thicket]

yeh

figured lol

[zealous plover]

Ho-Oh looks kind of annoying but I'd test it out first then come back.

[dusty thicket]

alright

final question, what is 224 speed hitting

with unec

[zealous plover]

Adamant Marshadow

[dusty thicket]

oh

alright lol

[zealous plover]

Force it to Shadow Sneak, which won't KO unless it's Band.

[dusty thicket]

wait do you mean

jolly

oh wait nvm

it's

yeah right

[zealous plover]

Jolly is a bit overkill on Unecro since you already outspeed every Scarfer at +1.

[dusty thicket]

yeah

run 32 def set instead of 28 hp 8 def for the 1 attack

(meme)

[dusty thicket]

also wouldn't

160 speed on pdon be better than 156

because

outspeed jolly marsh after webs & rock polish

or is there a 100 spdef calc

[zealous plover]

Yes, I think it's Focus Blast from GeoXern, and 2 Ice Beams from Pyogre.

[dusty thicket]

ohhhh

alright lol

i'm honestly gonna do 248 attack then but ok ty lmao

unless there's a calc for that too

[zealous plover]

no idt so

[dusty thicket]

ait lol

[ionic pond]

Hi
I made a team for a Tournament next week
It's NatDex UU

In this Tournament you can change/add one type of your mon, give me it a new move or a new ability

This all has to fit thematically with the mon and must have reasoning behind it

https://pokepast.es/bd5bbd888e04e0b2

What could I improve or add
(Serperior is Grass/Dragon now and Decidueye is Fighting/Flying now)

[dry ridge]

New NatDex UU RMT @fleet sand, @alpine helm, @sonic summit. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fleet sand]

Uhh, that addition makes it so that it’s not NDUU, but I can still tell you duoblade and beedrill are completely useless

[sonic summit]

I think this counts under arbitrary rulesets but regardless beedrill, Gardevoir, Doublade, and Decidueye are all awful and I advice you look at the VR rankings and try out a sample team

Doublade is just flat out outclassed by Aegislash

Eviolite aint saving it

[ionic pond]

Even with Sharpness?

[sonic summit]

Its far too slow and far to knock weak

[ionic pond]

What should I use instead

[dusty thicket]

Its still allowed to talk about it btw just not in this channel

#comp-general or optimally #pkmn-general qualify better

[hazy remnant]

first off this is the thread for non-ou natdex tiers, second off none of these sets have any merit whatsoever, zero synergy, and slaking is completely unviable
i’d recommend using a sample team first just to get to know exactly what different mons run what for what in practice

[sonic summit]

This is far worse, please look at the VR rankings and Sample team on Smogon forums

Viability Ranking

S tier, A tier, B, C,

[marble stone]

go to the natdex rmt channel plz

this is for natdex rates that aren't the ou version

nat dex ou

not ou

[unborn zealot]

https://pokepast.es/9c84211f11a07a12 Uber counts right-

[solemn zodiac]

NDUbers goes in here yes

idt this is ever so slightly viable though

[quasi garnet]

You'd be correct!!

[unborn zealot]

😮

[dusty thicket]

sadly this is outright unplayable competitively

the only viable mon here is ho-oh

and not with this set

i'd recommend checking out samples and resources before starting off with the tier, assuming you're looking for competitive help

if you just want to play showdown for the sake of using whatever mons you like to use, go ahead, but this channel doesn't account for that

just for future reference

[cedar sandal]

https://pokepast.es/fc1cb3afd1eb02c1 this is my National dex team..

[sonic summit]

Is this for ndou or nd monotype?

[cedar sandal]

Nd

[old haven]

https://pokepast.es/012940b2d462e310 Can i get a rating?

[old haven]

This team is for National Dex Doubles Ubers

[sonic summit]

There are mutiple natdex tiers

[sonic summit]

Why did you restrict yourself to only 2 Ubers?

There's no ruleset against that

[old haven]

Ik I just felt that putting more would just be cramming it, and every member on this team has a role not really fillable by an uber.

Ogerpon has u-turn for activating tera dark necrozma dusk's weakness policy, and to switch to a supporter, like mantine, and raikou has immunity to fake out with relatively speedy screens. Rhydon can activate weakness policy pre-tera, and is a physical wall. Mantine is a special speedy wall with tailwind.

Ogerpon with u-turn also synergizes nicely with my walls, as ogerpon resists their double weaknesses, mantines electric, and rhydon's water & grass

[cedar sandal]

Just Nat Dex.

[sonic summit]

if you mean the standard natdex tier, then you are in the wrong section, you should be in https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1059714627384115290.

regardless, Monotype in any tier that's not Monotype is awful and you won't get much help aside from people telling you to go to monotype / scrap the team

[dusty thicket]

sadly, in this server, we don't account for arbitrary rules of any kind

you're free to use whatever team you want, but unless you're willing to forgo each and every arbitrary rule and aim only for competitive advice (except like, i want to use one specific viable mon), this isn't the channel or server to get your team rated

my bad

[sonic summit]

its not really arbitrary rule? more like flawed justification

[dusty thicket]

i mean eh

i'm not saying the team is unsalvageable

sorry if it sounded that way

moreso like

"sure we can help you but you need to forgo the "putting more would just be cramming it" rule

[sonic summit]

truthfully idt they would be able to get proper help here

ik the ND Doubles cord as a section for ND Doubles Ubers as like a fun concept

could try there

[dusty thicket]

good point

wait nddubers isn't a tier?

amog

[sonic summit]

its as real a tier as Mono Ubers

in which is sorta like an OM type tier within the main tier

[unborn zealot]

https://pokepast.es/8b3b90e2e8d821e8

[solemn zodiac]

still unviable

this could work if you had better sets and fully committed to tr but rn it's a mismatch of subpar cheese and tr

[coarse crag]

Yeah, xern and chien pao doesn’t syngerize well tr, nor does nuzzle on hatt. Both melm and calyrex prefer choice band and mental herb is way more beneficial than focus sash on cresselia

[random bluff]

https://pokepast.es/d684b75772481f78

[quasi garnet]

Add the last mon 😔

[hazy remnant]

where’s yo last mon and what are those evs

[solemn zodiac]

the chinese evs

[desert plinth]

https://pokepast.es/87ae189b511d8ebc

[coarse crag]

You only have 2 viable pokemon, try going through the viability rankings to improve the team

[desert plinth]

Who me?

[coarse crag]

yes

[desert plinth]

Aight

What you thinking I should change out

[quasi garnet]

The sun aspect

[coarse crag]

basically all mons but groudon and necrozma dusk mane

[desert plinth]

That’s the whole dang team tho

Is sun really that bad

[quasi garnet]

Yeh

[desert plinth]

Oh

[dusty thicket]

weathers altogether are unviable in ndubers

because the primals just

go "lolno" about it

[random bluff]

https://pokepast.es/0eeb5ce47b442fe9

NatDex Ubers. Reached the 1500s with this team. I feel like the team can be alot more but I can't put my finger on it

Here are the roles if that helps

Pdon : Rock polish wall breaker (I would like to keep this mon if I can)

Yvetal : Anti setup defogger, also here for Marshadow (prob change this, Perhaps Ho-oh?)

Zygarde : My setup sweeper (Prob change this since I have Pdon and replace it with Necrozma-DM or somethin)

Buzzwole : Physical wall (Has saved me alot of times against physical sweepers but might have to change due to Xerneas / Ultra Necrozma / Mega Salamence running around the tier)

Magearna (My Xerneas answer, Heart swap to take its geo boost away, also to snag any calm mind stat boosts from other mons)

Xerneas : The typical geo special attacker

(I also want a mon to deal with stall since I'm too small brain and I dont know if Pdon is enough)

As you can see, I'm terrible at building so any suggestion / advice will be helpful

[quasi garnet]

Already don't really know what you're going for. Also p much all of these sets are inoptimal along with mage and buzz being mid. Xern and pdon set are more HO while everything else is more mid balance

If you were to restructure into balance replace zyg set for coil yvel for ho oh mage for arc forme now that you have better xern check and scrap buzz. Prolly change pdon set. Oh and scrap xern for smthin else

If you wanna keep a more offensive variant of the don can try to add mons to pressure darkeus and yvel

Could be wrong on smthin here, rushed a bit

[random bluff]

Sorry bout that, was just building and covering weakness that I forgot what playstyle I was going for

I liked the Rock polish don, so I would go the offense approach

[quasi garnet]

Alr that's cool

Holdup I gotta go. Someone else can help you probably

[random bluff]

It's alright, I dont mind waiting

[pseudo coral]

previous dude is a better player than i am but ill try to give some advice:
-maggy and buzzy arent really up to the tier, i'd suggest ndm over maggy and im not sure of buzzwole's purpose
-sash is goofy ahh on zyg use lefties
-psyshock aint real im sorry, either geomancy moonblast thunder 4thmove or geomancy moonblast hp rock focus blast, also tera steel is goofy ahh, tera elec in first case or iirc fighting in second case
-i'd also suggest ho oh bc it's a top defogger but idk if that's necessary, like i said im a bad player so take my advice with an entire mine's worth of salt
hope that tides u over until good players arrive again

also in the meantime u can find some sample teams, they haven't been updated since koraidon meta but they should still work with some tweaking minus the koraidon

[random bluff]

I decided to go with a balance team instead, What Arceus form should i use and what do I use in place of xern?

[pseudo coral]

probably ground or fairy

and uhhh

there isn't really anything better than funny murder deer at what it does (6-0 the opposing team given one free turn ) but if u need a fat fairy then probablh fairyceus

as usual take that with a giant garganacl's worth of salt

[random bluff]

I forgor to ask, Should Pdon set be a bulky offensive or straight up offense/defensive?

[coarse crag]

If you’re building balance, spdef pdon should be your way to go

helps a lot vs the pogre and xern matchup

[steady crescent]

Where can I find natdex ubers sample teams

[solemn zodiac]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-resources-thread.3712170/

[steady crescent]

I can't open the pokepaste links

Nvm fixed it

[steady crescent]

Koraidon is ND AG and all of these teams use it

[solemn zodiac]

oh?

oops theyre outdated

didn’t see that mb

[steady crescent]

[solemn zodiac]

yeah so there aren’t any samples atm you can try the ndubers discord

[pearl scroll]

Natdex Ubers https://pokepast.es/5c0f3c7ed6fafb89

So um is the kitchen on fire?

If you can please help make this team be able to go against all team types at least neutrally

Change whatever you want, just make it work the best it could

Offense would be preferred

[dusty thicket]

this seems a little random

it's not unsalvageable at all but it seems like a mixture of too many archetypes in one

is there any mon you want to keep?

also thought i'd mention this but the xerneas set is outdated, and it's like that in smogdex too

the EVs are for Scarf Korai/Mirai

but those are gone

[uncut gulch]

what am i doing wrong https://pokepast.es/f691d14f765f03e6

[sonic summit]

what tier is this for?

[uncut gulch]

ru

[sonic summit]

this has no synergy for an RU team whatsoever and a lot of your picks are mediocre to flat out awful such as Ariados

I would reccomend looking at the RU VR and then trying again

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ru-metagame-discussion.3713801/post-9455247

[uncut gulch]

i took a look at it https://pokepast.es/9bee4f21f93cef11

[uncut gulch]

https://pokepast.es/676e07b416c17399

[pearl scroll]

Huh, I don’t care about keeping anything but primal groudon and arceus

@dusty thicket so what can I do? Balance offence that can get neutral matchups against almost teams would be ideal

[pearl scroll]

Dude, swords dance is obviously better than hone claws

There is no reason to use hone claws

And steel wing talonflame

🔥🔥🔥

The kitchen is on fire

But anyways who can help me with my team

https://pokepast.es/5c0f3c7ed6fafb89

If you can

Keep it offensive

And I don’t care about any changes if it works well

[sonic summit]

@uncut gulch I will go into detail later since I'm in transit rn but I would suggest trying to watch replays of this tier or look at the set / role compedendium

[pearl scroll]

Hone claws on mimikyu is the only thing we need to look at to determine the team

Lmao

[sonic summit]

No need to be an ass about this

He's obviously new at the tier

And mons in general

[pearl scroll]

Ok

[pearl scroll]

So can anybody help me build a team? This one is kind of a kitchen fire so please do anything to make this an offensive team with at least neutral matchup against most team types. I don’t mind what do you guys remove or add, if it works well it’s good.

https://pokepast.es/5c0f3c7ed6fafb89

[uncut gulch]

new to competitive yes but not new to pokemon atleast

[dusty thicket]

Back

[pearl scroll]

Cool

[dusty thicket]

Its midnight but lemme try to skim this through

Thing js

You need to opt for either hyper offensive, bulky offensive, or balance

But like

Bulky offensive is an archetypd of its own

[pearl scroll]

Balance it is

[dusty thicket]

Ait

You wanna keep any specific arceus typing?

[pearl scroll]

Hmmmm

[dusty thicket]

Or just any?

[pearl scroll]

I need a primal groudon counter

[dusty thicket]

Every team does anyway lol

[pearl scroll]

That’s the reason I used ground

[dusty thicket]

But arceus doesnt check pdon at all

[pearl scroll]

But if it works any type will do

[dusty thicket]

Unless its like

Yeah

@zealous plover back me up here

Bring the actual good player in

[pearl scroll]

Let’s see if he will respond

[dusty thicket]

Lol

[pearl scroll]

Maybe yveltal can stay

[dusty thicket]

You're running good mons anyway

[zealous plover]

Arceus Forms are literally the main form of dealing with Pdon what are you talking about?

[dusty thicket]

No they are but

They dont counter it

In the literal sense

[zealous plover]

Either that or you're running Zyg-C/Gira-O

[dusty thicket]

Also

[pearl scroll]

I probably need hazard removal

[dusty thicket]

@pearl scroll youre running good mons but random-ish sets on them

[pearl scroll]

Too true

[dusty thicket]

Like you just mixed full on setup offensive sets with stall sets

Which is

Not big

But the mons are big

[zealous plover]

What even is the team in question here?

[dusty thicket]

Hang on

[dusty thicket]

This

[pearl scroll]

It’s an absolute kitchen fire to me

I’m like a ladder player that can’t teambuild

[dusty thicket]

Its not really

Ive seen much worse

This is very salvageable

[zealous plover]

oh
okay when I say Arceus is the main form of dealing with Pdon
I'm talking specifically about ArcGround, ArcDark, and sometimes ArcWater.

[dusty thicket]

Ok yeah thats

Fairer

[pearl scroll]

I feel like I can’t beat stall either

[dusty thicket]

Arcground doesnt 1v1 offensive pdon too often tho

Like the heat crash set at least

[pearl scroll]

On one game I tried breaking stall with this team

[dusty thicket]

But its not like you 1v1 heat crash pdon anyway

Actually not sure abt judgment set

[pearl scroll]

Ok

[dusty thicket]

But anyway

[zealous plover]

I do not really like ArcFairy here
at all.
Also this Yvel set is awful and is complete fodder to Zacian + Arceus Forms.

[dusty thicket]

He said he wants to keep pdon arc(any) and yvel

With any set

[zealous plover]

Well you're not keeping Yvel

[dusty thicket]

Which isnt exactly hard to work with

[zealous plover]

because it does not work here

at all.

[pearl scroll]

Uh

[dusty thicket]

Idk how yvel balance works

[pearl scroll]

I thought yveltal is like on every team

[dusty thicket]

Or if it does

[dusty thicket]

Thats SS ubers

[zealous plover]

It's either a fatter Scarf Yvel, or it doesn't.

[dusty thicket]

Because calyrex shadow

But calyrex shadow is banned

From gen 9 ndubers