NatDex Other Tiers

[plucky hollow]

So is the server restart for the banned pkm

[gloomy bluff]

idk

smogon must just be slow or somthin

eh- i prefer band scizor

at least they did not ban heatran

god that would suck

[plucky hollow]

https://pokepast.es/8703e9ded9d4fa29
Steel mono

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @rocky saffron, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[plucky hollow]

Any rmters

[plucky hollow]

https://pokepast.es/04e7ca6e30a3769c
Water mono

[plucky hollow]

Please someone

Anyone

[soft lion]

Honestly this looks pretty fine. I'm not sold on Cover Cloak Corv, but I see what you're going for. I also would say that your Scizor needs a minimum of 56 Spe to be faster than Adamant Azumarill

[plucky hollow]

alr thanks

[plucky hollow]

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 88 SpD / 56 Spe
Impish Nature

• Swords Dance
• Bullet Punch
• Close Combat
• Roost

this better?

[soft lion]

This should be fine

[plucky hollow]

kk thanks

[plucky hollow]

wbt?

[soft lion]

Flip Turn > Jet on Barraskewda. You can consider Jolly as well to outspeed Koko outside of Rain. You don't have a Z user here either; Manaphy is a great abuser of that. The rest of the team looks alright

[plucky hollow]

Waterium z manaphy?

[slate ridge]

https://pokepast.es/b99b230e7722296e

my natdex ubers team

im around 1500 or so but went on a losing streak

so

any changes appreicated?

btw the terablast teragound makes regieleki beat primal groudon

i wish there were natdex randbats lol

[cursive idol]

pdon wants to outrun scarf kora, so jolly
also double dance is much more threatening than 3a rock polish
polish/swords dance/earthquake/heat crash tera flying
the ndm looks really unusual, the standard ultra burst set is 252atk/4spd/252spe adamant
dd/edge/quake/geyser
funny zygod set is https://pokepast.es/40cea32866f74d45
i dont even know what that pogre is doing with max spd and toxic
opulse/water spout/ice beam/calm mind tera ground/grass

kangaskhan is entirely a waste of a teamslot, replace it with support fairyceus or support groundceus
eleki is pretty awful too, it just removes rocks and nothing else

ho-oh fills the defogger role better
248hp/208def/52spd +def -spa
defog/whirlwind/sfire/twave
tera ground

other notes: your support arc needs to run rocks, super useful utility to have
pyogre could honestly be replaced with geoxern or swords dance zacian-c because it just doesnt check much honestly
zygod is also really nice at trapping unsuspecting pdons

support arcs can also defog but i dont like having rocks and defog on the same mon

[slate ridge]

ok! thanks so much

also whats kora?

for the primal groudon one

@cursive idol

[cursive idol]

a

[cursive idol]

sorry i was eating dinner there

kora is koraidon

running jolly pdon allows it to outspeed scarf koraidon at +2

[slate ridge]

np np

[cursive idol]

anything else?

[slate ridge]

ya

what should i replace kyogre with

alsoo

[cursive idol]

if you want, it can stay

[slate ridge]

is earthquake better than precipice blades

[cursive idol]

yes, i wonder how many games ive lost to accuracy

[slate ridge]

but how many won due to damage?

[cursive idol]

at +2 the damage difference isnt huge, earthquake gets the job done with the monstrous attack stat

[slate ridge]

i gotta say with the bs that was caly-s and astral barrage precipice blades and o-pulse should be 100%acc

[slate ridge]

o ya i forgot about the boosts

that makes sense

[cursive idol]

also whats super funny is heat crash 2hkos ho-oh

[slate ridge]

o wow

wanna see my team now?

[cursive idol]

i'll take a look

[slate ridge]

https://pokepast.es/f0a8ed6edcebcf36

therre u go!

also

why the very specific ivs for the zygarde

what does that let it do?

[cursive idol]

you missed the ndm's nature, set it to adamant

[cursive idol]

be bulky and at the same time be able to abuse power construct

[slate ridge]

o thx

[cursive idol]

at this point it looks good
just remember ndm's nature to adamant lmao

[slate ridge]

if u were me what would u replace kyogre with?

[cursive idol]

hmm

[slate ridge]

because it really isnt pulling weight

and

if i keep it

[cursive idol]

i love swords dance zacian-c

[slate ridge]

is surf better than o-pulse

[cursive idol]

pyogre definitely isnt a bad mon, but its not the best and easiest to fit here

[slate ridge]

its movepool is way worse than groudon

[cursive idol]

the situation is different for pyogre because it gets a few important hits with pulse

[slate ridge]

ok cool

[cursive idol]

xern doesnt like eating hits

[slate ridge]

ya

[cursive idol]

also i would say it doesnt need thunder because you arent 1v1ing other pyogre anyway

[slate ridge]

ok ya

[cursive idol]

options to replace it with could probably be scarf koraidon or swords dance zacian

[slate ridge]

ya that makes sense

[cursive idol]

even geoxern works

[slate ridge]

i do wish mega ray was avalible 😦

uhhgghhh i hate emojis

lol

[cursive idol]

dont forget about flyinium z dragon dance ray

tbh
you could do a lot with that pyogre slot

[slate ridge]

ya thats true

[cursive idol]

sometimes i find it useful, its a wonderful breaker

but xern is just easier to slap on a team and blast through walls like nothing can stop you

[slate ridge]

the ray with fly-z

i had shell smash blastoise for a while

lol

[cursive idol]

toise just needs too much support

[slate ridge]

ya thats why i dont anymroe

[cursive idol]

also another reason i dont like pyogre a lot

is because of pdon

pdon is omnipresent and just completely stops pyogre

[slate ridge]

it really does lol

i gottsa say

gen 3 is so fucking awesome design wise

@cursive idol ok i decided on sw dance zacian

what would u reccomend for it?

[cursive idol]

let me go get the set

[slate ridge]

ok

tysm for this

[cursive idol]

Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Behemoth Blade
• Close Combat
• Wild Charge
• Swords Dance

quick note

try to remove the opponents pdon before you go crazy with zacian

[slate ridge]

ya ofc

the main reason for eleki

[cursive idol]

tera fighting cc at +3 still isnt ohkoing it sadly

[slate ridge]

was to do that lol

[cursive idol]

tera flying pdon beats opposing pdon

[slate ridge]

ya ik

[cursive idol]

also if you setup your double dance before they get theirs out you're golden

[slate ridge]

ok

ill tell u how it goes

[cursive idol]

that it?

[slate ridge]

um

not really

tysm

[cursive idol]

yw np

[slate ridge]

lollll @cursive idol i was running pressure instead of regenerator

on hoeoh

[plucky hollow]

https://pokepast.es/5283a68421b9b36f
Fairy mono

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @rocky saffron, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[plucky hollow]

Now we wait

[plucky hollow]

Bruh its been 3 hours

[plucky hollow]

And other hour

[soft lion]

First thing, you need to chill. We do this out of generosity, not obligation and we don't sit here on the edge of our seats just waiting to rate teams.

Diancie is fine, but Diamond Storm is typically preferred over Power Gem with a Naive nature.

Grimmsnarl is completely outclassed by Klefki as a Screen/Spike setter, TWave spammer, and Poison immunity.

Azumarill only really needs Superpower OR Knock Off, and I'd stick with Knock. Last slot can be Play Rough, Liquidation, or Sub. You also probably want 252 Spe, 4 HP but 0 Spe can work.

The team is already pretty specially biased, I'd make Valiant physical. Swords Dance, Close Combat, Knock Off and your choice of coverage.

As mentioned, Terrain Extender is banned. This set feels extremely passive for the rest of the team. I'd go with Specs. Move options are: Dazzling Gleam, Thunderbolt, Volt Switch, Hidden Power [Ice], Grass Knot, Hidden Power [Fire]

This Hatterene doesn't seem like it's going to really do anything helpful for you. I'd keep the EVs but do Calm Mind, Draining Kiss, Psychic/Psyshock, then either Trick Room or a third attack.

[plucky hollow]

Srry mb

Also should valiant switch items

[soft lion]

No you can do Swords Dance with Close Combat and keep Fightium Z

[plucky hollow]

Ok

[hidden merlin]

https://pokepast.es/f9e01d1f8041f331 Not sure if this is the right place to put this but this is my Johto team feat. my favorite Mon Feraligatr

[cursive idol]

i didnt get a ping nor did i check on this server much at all in the past few days so
here we go i guess

missing arc forme, missing pdon
scarf kyogre and gdarm are both pretty awful when compared to mostly anything else
the ho-oh set looks super unusual, run hdb + regen 248hp/204def/56spd impish
sfire/twave/defog/whirlwind tera ground

tspikes > toxic, sludge bomb > dmax cannon etern
support yvel isnt really a thing at this point, it's an offensive mon because calyrex-s isnt here to deal with
bulky dragon dance ndm is an amazing mon, but if you want you can keep support but use earthquake > sunsteel
in place of gdarm and ogre, use double dance pdon and support fairyceus
if you settle on support fairyceus with rocks you dont need to have rocks on ndm or you can just use dragon dance ndm/unecro

@random bluff

[round quartz]

https://pokepast.es/be3df9066a8518b0 poison mono

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @rocky saffron, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[round quartz]

i tried

[rocky saffron]

would make crobat into nidoking or nihilego

since u have 0 offensive presence

act make geezing into one of those

u need bat to not auto lose to mgallade

and turn ammoonguss into mvenu

so u dont flop vs trick mons

also its better

other than that looks fairly solid

[round quartz]

aight

thanks

the idea was like stall/bulky offense but those fit on there

whats the tera on nidoking?

[rocky saffron]

ndm banned tera

make crobat bulky defog

[round quartz]

oh yea

[rocky saffron]

check the dex

[round quartz]

aight

whatre the evs for bulky defog crobat?

[rocky saffron]

Crobat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 16 Def / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Brave Bird
• Defog
• Roost
• Taunt / Toxic / Super Fang

[soft lion]

/ U-turn

[round quartz]

thanks

[rocky saffron]

192 Speed EVs along with a Jolly nature allow Crobat to outspeed key threats like Greninja, Tornadus, and Alakazam, while 48 Attack EVs ensure that it OHKOes Mega Gallade with 4 Defense EVs after Stealth Rock damage. 252 HP EVs and the remaining EVs going in Defense increase Crobat's bulk.

cped straight from dex

[round quartz]

imma go u turn

[rocky saffron]

its sing ss examples

[round quartz]

or super fang

[rocky saffron]

but same spread still imo

u could fix it to outpace meowscarada ig

to 380

[gloomy bluff]

https://pokepast.es/2716d36a58edc145 National Dex UU

[dry ridge]

New NatDex UU RMT @fleet sand. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gloomy bluff]

first time making a team without any help really, only thing I did not make was slowking-galar

[keen viper]

https://pokepast.es/4c733dc986cfd166 ND Ubers

[zealous plover]

sorry for the late rate, but there's a couple issues right off the bat.

Firstly there's absolutely no switch in to opposing Koraidon, who is so common and metagame warping that not accounting for it is gimping yourself in the long run.

Secondly, Wish + Tect Mence is an interesting idea on paper, but in practice it's incredibly exploitable and leaves MegaMence too vulnerable to being taken advantage of by what it's supposed to check.

Finally, most variations of Zygarde straight up 6-0 at preview, and you have essentially no way of fighting back VS them.

If you could tell me what you wanted to initially build around I could probably help from there, but if not I'd refer to the samples, since this looks a bit all over the place with DD Ekiller on a bulkier team, among other things.

[keen viper]

Thanks for the response! Yeah I must say that I'm very new to NatDex Ubers. My main idea was to build around that Arceus set, and then either with some kind of sun team with Koraidon, or a bulkier team that can back it up like with hazards. Do you have good suggestions for one of such teams? By the hears of it a bulkier team is preferred with Arceus. I am quite familiar with OU and Ubers tiers, but I'm not quite familiar yet with the threats here

[zealous plover]

Dragon Dance Arceus is typically a Hyper Offense type of set, as being able to flip the Marshadow matchup completely on its head, while not sacrificing the item slot is invaluable in facilitating a sweep.
On more balanced structures, if I opt to use Ekiller, I usually prefer SubBU with Lefties + Shadow Force for its ability to set up on more passive checks like NDM, Ferro, Gira forms, and Non-Whirlwind Ho-Oh.
Becomes very hard to stop later on, especially since it still retains potential to 1v1 conventional offensive checks like Koraidon and Marshadow.

I have a couple teams around it, but if you wanna see what you can come up with first and go from there, go ahead.

[keen viper]

Allrighty, I'm gonna give it another shot! I'll send you a new one asap. What type of team would you suggest? Btw, what does 'SubBU' mean? Sub...?

[zealous plover]

Substitute + Bulk Up

Usually like to run some sort of HStack with it, since it assists in wearing down checks bulkier teams usually try to use.

Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Extreme Speed
• Shadow Force
• Bulk Up
• Substitute

this is usually how I run it.

Maximizes Bulk and Power while outspeeding Neutral Natured Base 90s.

[keen viper]

Are you okay with me pm'ing? Then we can talk a bit more without spam ;]

[zealous plover]

sure.

I just gotta accept it at some point later, I usually have PMs set to requests to avoid spam messages.

[keen viper]

Just send you one🎶

[grim gate]

Would anyone help explain why mega beedrill is a staple in NAT DEX UU because my Lycanroc-Dusk keeps on killing it.

[tribal kraken]

not for here, #comp-general #comp-general-2

[radiant quest]

Also it isn’t

[open basalt]

https://pokepast.es/4caa5c541efe258a
this is a take on temp's ss meowscarada
and the loast 3 are glimmora counters bc meow is sash

[tribal kraken]

hey, while its a good start there do need to be some major improvements and this isnt the right channel - you want #1059714627384115290

[covert comet]

NDRU double scarf spikes https://pokepast.es/9a929c0aca596970

[hidden merlin]

Johto Team w/ my favorite Mon Feraligatr

https://pokepast.es/af9fbaa6e6b88725

[radiant quest]

Format?

[covert comet]

probably ndru

it all falls under that

[radiant quest]

you’ll need to not run mono johto

[covert comet]

well that’s the whole point of the team

[radiant quest]

3. Your team must be competitive, and you must be willing to have it optimized. We will not stop you from using whatever team you want, but if it’s not competitive, it does not belong here. If you are building a "fun AG team" and don't want to use viable Pokemon because you don't like them, this is the wrong place.

[hidden merlin]

I just realized the title of the thread now. My bad

[tribal kraken]

anyone wanna take this before i get home in 1h30?

[covert comet]

lol nobody wants to look at my team : (

[zealous plover]

https://pokepast.es/a7a6bbfbfaecff90
National Dex Monotype
Mono-Electric Team I've neglected to get rated for a while, but have had an absolute blast using.

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @rocky saffron, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[zealous plover]

Been considering swapping Pawmot's item, since the second revive never felt super needed, and maybe changing up Zap's set, though Specs Zap's Hurricane helps a lot in Mono Grass MUs.

[worthy fjord]

Leppa Berry banned, I'd rather have Def Washtom to soak up Mega Swampy/Barra better
...I'd consider Iron Hands over pawmot due to the leppa berry ban honestly, it provides you an out in worst-case scenarios (being able to survive +3 burned dnite, Mega Diancie/boosted Volcaronas if using an assault vest) and being able to finish them off is always good

[zealous plover]

oh
lol

Been a bit since I played, didn't know it got banned.

What does AV Hands look like though?

[worthy fjord]

Ice Punch/Heavy Slam/Drain Punch/Rock Slide or Eq or Volt Switch

Max HP, Spdef is the most basic spread but you can tweak that to your liking when you try it out

[zealous plover]

seeing as this is more offensively inclined I might go Rslide Ice Punch Drain Vswitch, is that fine?

[worthy fjord]

HSlam is for M.Dia though...

but try it out first imo

[zealous plover]

Realistically can't fit everything Hands wants here anyway, and the only thing I think I could realistically drop for it is Ice Punch, which I feel like would be worse to go without if anything.

[worthy fjord]

yea

dont drop Ice punch.

[zealous plover]

can't drop Rock Slide either otherwise I'm ooga smashed by Volc

can't drop Vswitch because then Hands is a total momentum sink for a team so offensively inclined, etc.

[worthy fjord]

these hands cant capture everything :c

I'd personally drop VSwitch tho, you can just....swap..

(I mean its obviously more than that, but I just hate M.Dia)

[zealous plover]

But the thing is with the team being so aggressive and frail, thus reliant on dancing around threats with pivoting, I doubt I could afford to.

[worthy fjord]

Ig at the worst case scenario, M.Dia is the least scariest of them all

Drain/Ice/RSlide/Volt works

[zealous plover]

Yeah I don't even see many chances MDia will get to make Progress outside of a hard predict into Zap.

Everything else either 1v1s or doesn't let it in to begin with.

Gonna spend a bit EVing this, I'll get back to you then.

https://pokepast.es/dea0892dd23a288d
@worthy fjord
Alright added Hands and EV'd it for what I think might be relavant.

Outspeeds Blissey, and always OHKO's Lando-T and Lando-I from full with Ice Punch before Quark Drive (not taking into account Intim, though it's moreso for Lando-I.)

Originally EV'd to not get 2HKO'd by Ting-Lu EQ but like

that was dumb and bad lol.

[worthy fjord]

this works (if ever you can use Knock over Bounce w/Fight or Dark Z on Zer if you think that the matchup vs Grass/Poison is already doable)

...Psyshock over Psychic on A.Rai could also be a thing, allowing you to make Glowking cry faster, but this up to you

[covert comet]

changes to my team,
1 i removed screens for magic coat and twave respectfully, i switched light clay for the sasharino
2 changed krook to shiny

i’m also considering changing overgrow to protean because i never get to use overgrow because it’s always dying so

[reef lynx]

idk if this falls under rate my team but I'm currently building and I wanna know what I could have in my 6th slot/what I can improve on my existing members

[radiant quest]

rmt is for completed teams, if you just put in a 6th you can get it rated

[soft lion]

Also post a Pokepaste link instead of a screenshot please

(PS: A Water immunity is what anyone would suggest for your 6th)

[potent hound]

https://pokepast.es/3f6fc60ea401a154

UU

[ivory flicker]

https://pokepast.es/fe0501548429d762

Gen 8 UU

[radiant quest]

@fleet sand

[potent hound]

I like it! But you might wanna get rid of toxic spikes on the bee

[ivory flicker]

Aii and replace with what

I just use it for switch predictions as is

[potent hound]

Oh I see

Nvm

Actually

[potent hound]

U-turn

[ivory flicker]

Sounds good, thx!

[ivory flicker]

https://pokepast.es/44911fe188e8b136
Gen 8 UU

As you can see below, the idea is to spread Para until one of the sweepers has a good opportunity to rampage

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-1818435252-1llqcxzz2py9c6isjku7oavmmxu6qp2pw

Maybe that's not the best example since it was over so fast 😅

But ye webs and yawn on slurpuff help a lot, prankster whimsicott can come on with encore and get a free para, seed, or setup for a sweeper. As you saw serperior is a sweeper that also helps spread para. Bisharp gets off a ss and it sweeps, also comes in on defog and sweeps. Slowbro is the defensive backbone of the team, getting off those twaves and pivoting out to sweepers. Togekiss uses hax to break down teams.

I was thinking abt using a hex draga, not sure what I would replace

Sry if that was a lot lol

[uneven lodge]

Raost this awfull team https://pokepast.es/5165394d03156276

(Natdex Ubers)

[zealous plover]

For Hyper Offense, frankly this isn't a terrible start, albiet maybe just slightly misguided.

Defensive Pokémon usually aren't that worthwhile on these kind of teams, since you want make sure your hazards aren't removed through raw offensive pressure.
However, the two mons you do have defensive actually have very good offensive sets for the structure!

Flutter Mane and Mega Lucario don't fit here (Mega Luc is still an HO mon, but mostly on Webs, not Hstack)

Necrozma (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane) @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 28 HP / 248 Atk / 8 Def / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Photon Geyser
• Earthquake
• Stone Edge
• Dragon Dance

This is what I'd reccomend for Necrozma.

Lets it survive an LO Adamant Marshadow Sneak after rocks, and outspeed it unboosted.

Yveltal could be just a standard LO Pulse Owing Hwave Taunt

and I'd swap out Flutter Mane for an offensive Pdon set of some kind, and replace Mega Lucario with Mega Salamence.

[sonic sleet]

i also enjoy psycho boost over skill swap to get koraidon into some ranges potentially

[uneven lodge]

Ok! Thx for the advice

[zealous plover]

https://pokepast.es/337a6107bdffc203

you can be super flexible on your Pdon set, just look at some SM Offensive sets for reference, almost any of them will work fine (except mixed SD or SD/Mixed rocks) it's really just preference.

[sonic sleet]

polish mixed should be the easiest to fit

[zealous plover]

Double Dance Heat Crash is also an option, but yeah I agree mixed Polish is your best bet.

[uneven lodge]

Ok thx again

[zealous plover]

but that looks marginally different from what it looked like in SM, so I'll drop the updated ver.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 156 Atk / 100 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Precipice Blades
• Heat Crash
• Swords Dance
• Rock Polish

Outspeeds Scarf Koraidon after Rock Polish, and takes two Pyogre Ice Beams, as well as any hit from GeoXern bar HP Ground from full.

If you're doing Mixed Polish the standard from SM should be fine though.

[uneven lodge]

Ok well

I guess final product
https://pokepast.es/4af2939815a87d2a

Thanks,Thanks a lot (again)

[zealous plover]

This looks fairly Koraidon weak, so I'd say take Glimmer's suggestion and do Psycho Boost > Skill Swap.

You have a lot of busted stallbreakers as is, so you're not as pressured to get hazards up in that MU.

[uneven lodge]

Shit I forgot that

Ok so (Final time) Thanks!

[gentle creek]

hello rmt! could you please have a look at this? in ND Mono https://pokepast.es/2c7a51432152d4ce
@worthy fjord @grim cobalt
thanks in advance!
(I playtested it 20ish times at low ladder, I don't struggle against ghost and dark strangely enough but water and elec break me
I once had tbolt x2 + energy ball in it just to deal with water 😂😭)

(Please ping me if you answer, or there's a high chance I'd miss it T.T)

[worthy fjord]

what were you building around?
Also the team lacks speed control, but I'd first ask which mon do you want to keep if ever

[gentle creek]

yeah speed control has been a pb
that's why mzam and deoxys are in it

I don't really have a "core" at this point I think? I just wanted to try out monopsy build without relying on samples

I kinda like my espathra tho

it dies to bug buzz but welp

and keeping sigilyph would be nice too (even with another set) but if it's too much of a burden I'll get rid of it

and the sl azelf is nostalgic so I'd keep it too. plus it really worked out well in my games

lele specs hpfire bcs I don't wanna rely on fb

• it works reaaaally well against bug and grass teams

(terrain breaking first impression yk)

I feel like everyone fulfills their roles, but everyone is too important and once I lose a poke I lose everything
I either 5 or 6-0'd or lose (did not make any "close win")

(sigilyph has this set to kill specially bulky and unaware mons)

(or to at least cripple them)

(and when they are in the team the SL azelf uturn comes in handy, and is not sl anymore)

[worthy fjord]

Problem with Water-> Use Slowbro/Celebi. Slowbro can even turn the rain against them as you can pivot out to M.Zam with tport, then you go brr. On the other hand, Celebi provides stealth rocks and isn't weak to Grass (lol)
Problem with Elec-> M.Zam + Scarf Lele does wonders. The true cteam is really A Proto Speed Iron Leaves with a Z Move (SD/Leaf Blade/Psyblade/CC), but Leaves is kinda meh in other matchups. Gives you a physical attacker though
NP Deo-S prefers Bolt-Beam+Eball or Psycho Boost. Alternatively, using Victini might be a choice as it breaks stinky steels + you have a fast guy already in M.Zam
I'm honestly not sure what to do with Azelf. Its outclassed by Deo-S as an Entry hazard lead, isn't really strong enough to be using Scarfed sets, and is too slow for specs. You can try Scarf with U-turn if ever (giving Lele CM + Z Move), but something like Scarf Latias might be better since you can Defog + HWish in a pinch

[gentle creek]

thanks a lot! I'm gonna try to come with something during my train this afternoon

[gentle creek]

is this better? https://pokepast.es/5a2cb9b293556988
I'm kinda afraid of removing dark pulse

and nasty plot makes deo godlike

[open swift]

https://pokepast.es/030a26a4bea1622a
It’s been a while since I played comp but I wanted to use a trick room team since it would include some of my fav mons who are jus a little slow
(srry abt the names)

[proven rune]

https://pokepast.es/77e185db967ceec3
Made this earlier but i think i need fighting mon for coverage against rock like garganacl

[gloomy bluff]

what teir? it will not show for me (sorry)

also if its UU or Ubers florges is a bad mon for walling attacks long term. toxi is not only slower, but has bulk in most spd and Def

[open swift]

National Dex UU

[gloomy bluff]

deo Def is best utility

iir it has wish as well

[open swift]

*replace hoopa with armarouge

[gloomy bluff]

could work if you want

[open swift]

so Deo def instead of florges? I only rlly have it cause I need Defog heal bell and wish

[gloomy bluff]

ok yeah defog makes it above the edge,

i forgot glim was ou

[proven rune]

Glimmora is crazy as a spattacker with energy ball and power gem

[gloomy bluff]

yeah but its not ou

its uu

[proven rune]

Mhmm

[gloomy bluff]

if needed you could run skarm

for bulky offence attacker and defoger

this is coming from an ubers player tho

i played a bit of UU but not alot

https://pokepast.es/f5c060308b1b6a35
https://pokepast.es/3df8b051c4b4029e

these where my main teams that i liked to use but that is bulky offence

trickroom singles is not the best option for a low teir that has not very fast mons

[open swift]

alr, thanks for the feedback

did not know raikou learns scald lol

[open swift]

why choice scarf jolly weavile ?

[scarlet tendon]

Without switching out any of my team's Pokémon, what moveset, item, ability, or stat changes could I make to improve the quality of this team?
https://pokepast.es/daa194f8367c5462.

[radiant quest]

The format

[scarlet tendon]

The format for my team is Gen 9 National Dex AG.

[radiant quest]

as in this will not work in natdex ag, the format needs changing first

[scarlet tendon]

Wait why won't it work?

[tribal kraken]

because everything dies immediately

we also dont really cover theme teams due to them usually being too uncompetitive for that metagame

[tribal kraken]

if you were to use it tho then use it in natdex uu

pory-z is rubl while everything else is ru

[gloomy bluff]

also it no longer exist

https://pokepast.es/b8bda721456e54c7 I have Gira-O as i don't have anything else to put there.

nat dex Ubers

[gloomy bluff]

https://pokepast.es/4d186aeecce301bc changed it

[radiant quest]

Why is your webs setter masquerain

[gloomy bluff]

it works..?

[zealous plover]

hey this would also be the right place to go to for NDOMs right?

[radiant quest]

Yeah

[tribal kraken]

yep

[gloomy bluff]

yea

[sharp matrix]

https://pokepast.es/451a34425ad8e4a3
Natdex Monotype Dragon, any thoughts for changes or revisions?

Specifically avoiding legend/mythical/paradox cos a certain friend said gym leaders shouldn't have it, the last time i made mono team

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @rocky saffron, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[worthy fjord]

dragon is kinda one of the types that greatly appreciates its legendaries as otherwise the team is too slow

Consider Mega Altaria over M.Chomp as it provides a dragon type immunity. This replaces dragonite
Scarf Dura isnt really that fast, you might want a secondary scarfer
consider getting Hydrei to compensate for the lost ground immune, while Dragalge could also be used as an anti-fairy measure
its hard to appropriately tell what you need, but these are general stuffs that might help

[sharp matrix]

Alright, big thanks for the suggestions! I'll definitely try it out. Probs i should rly incorporate legendaries too

[ivory flicker]

Can someone help me with this?

[tribal kraken]

@visual crow

also @sonic summit while im at it

[sonic summit]

a ping in the Smogon discord?

[tribal kraken]

g8nduu team

[sonic summit]

that is like a 1 in a million chance for me considering I don't talk here at all

[tribal kraken]

i had to check u were here with @ lol

[sonic summit]

also that says gen 9 btw

[tribal kraken]

oh

idk why]

[sonic summit]

like he put g8 but it's g9

[radiant quest]

@fleet sand

[fleet sand]

This is purely a cheese strat and does not account for the basic fact that gliscor exists

Ladder replay didn’t convince me at all cuz the team you fight is not indicative of the meta

Like your webs get denied by weavile and bisharp is 2hkoed on the switch by weavile

This was also posted like a week ago now so idt what I say matters

Next time on your post say NDUU not gen 8 UU because I won’t get pinged for that

Why would you say gen 8 UU anyway

[radiant quest]

Btw

[visual crow]

bro wasn't NDUU in gen 8 after like early gen p sure

kantobro anyway

[tribal kraken]

didnt check paste, just relied on what they said

[visual crow]

oh yeah and serp is BL in gen 8 NDUU p sure so not sure

[ivory flicker]

Because it's a UU team I made for gen 8...? I just thought It might be easier to rate a team if you actually knew what metagame it's designed for so idk wym by this

[ivory flicker]

In what way does gliscor counter this team?

[ivory flicker]

weavile is easily revenge killed by bisharp

[fleet sand]

I’m sorry this makes no sense

I can’t rate a team designed for gen 8 UU in a tier that is absolutely not gen 8 UU

[ivory flicker]

Literally what

[fleet sand]

If you’re designing for gen 8 UU maybe play the team in gen 8 UU

Minus the serp cuz it’s not legal

This is for objective rates of a team against the metagame you’re playing in

[ivory flicker]

Gen 8 NDUU isn't playable rn

I did the closest thing

[fleet sand]

Serp isn’t legal in that either btw

And it is playable, but only through challenges

So you’ve gotta go the nduu discord and ask for games

If you want a gen 8 nduu rate then everything on this team is also pretty useless

Sorry it wasn’t very clear at all what you were trying to do

Cuz the format on the paste and battle was gen 9 nduu

[ivory flicker]

Sorry forgot about serp being illegal I'll think on the team.

[ivory flicker]

About this, which discord would that be?

And how do I find it

[fleet sand]

https://discord.gg/feXr2Bgu

This one

[dry ridge]

https://www.smogon.com/discord/directory

[fleet sand]

This also can take you to the main ND discord

[ivory flicker]

Thx for the help

[royal wedge]

https://pokepast.es/3fae6d3b444df30f

natdex ubers

[slow ether]

National Dex Ubers
https://pokepast.es/5d3a49ad5fc4fd26

[clever stratus]

not sure if this is the place to ask, but what should I add to this team? NatDex Ubers

https://pokepast.es/a6ebee4a09294457

[tribal kraken]

its a good start, but we only do finished teams. sorry!

as for the other two teams, idr who covers ubers lol

[clever stratus]

oh it’s fine, was just hoping for suggestions

[tribal kraken]

ah ok

ur best looking in #comp-general or #comp-general-2 then

[royal wedge]

https://pokepast.es/1d295e9f40a52e00

help pls

[royal wedge]

a little change i made spikes for eruptino on groudon

[rose wagon]

i believe its Neon

[zealous plover]

This looks generally quite solid, save for the fact that the SD Koraidon MU being fairly shaky with the entire team being slower than it.

I would make Marsh Scarf Koraidon or smth else faster, but from the looks of it, you originally wanted to build Marsh? So I'm not entirely sure.

You could try swapping out Eternatus for Koraidon instead, fightspam is fairly potent rn, and Marshadow and Koraidon synergize very well together offensively in being able to overwhelm checks.

[zealous plover]

doesn't this just get totally smashed by Pyogre?
Generally Pdon isn't enough to keep Pyogre at bay, you still need some form of water resist on top of that.

Also Flutter Mane just isn't worth it without Koraidon.

It's a huge threat with its support, but just a whatever mon without it.

[spice crest]

https://pokepast.es/09e68ab0711d6d87
hastily cobbled electric team, natdex ubers

[spice crest]

https://pokepast.es/4a4506cf2e3ff5eb

updated hastily cobbled electric terrain team, natdex ubers

[zealous plover]

This is completely unviable

Espathra and Iron Bundle are both garbage Ubers, Hawlucha, Alolan Raichu, and Tapu Koko are terrible, Sash Marsh is an awful set, and you are basically incapable of doing anything to Bulky Booster NDM Besides accept that you get swept.

If I'm loading into this team I'm getting rocks up and winning with NDM T1.

You also get completely bulled over by basically any remotely compotent fast threat, and you can just forget being able to deal with Zacian or Primal Groudon.

Any remotely Offensive Groundceus is also an immediate 6-0.

Salvaging this team is impossible, the basic idea just doesn't work into any compotently built team.
Go look at the samples to get a better idea of how building for this tier works.

[gloomy bluff]

tf is this

[gloomy bluff]

you get walled by pdon or any type of ground tera,

• why bold espartha

timid is better for it

also grass knot Raichu A is pretty eh, everything id heavy yet its not good enough

at this point remake and look at sample teams, there is no good electric terrain setters as meridon was banned to ag

anything that was not said by me has been said by neon

it looks like you just got mons that were slightly compatible and copied from smogon samples

also stall kicks your ass, marsh is not as good as it once was and if anything is a better revenge killer with band or spell tag,

fighting tera beam espartha with stored power CM with protect and speed boost is what you should be using, it suffers from not having enough move slots

if you want to run a type of team like this, use a weather or TR set

slush rush and swift swim ect are very good

[gloomy bluff]

tbh very good set, one recommendation, spell tag or mussel over LO for longevity. and teams can do without a arc form but it is recommended.

[gloomy bluff]

toxic yet true

[tribal kraken]

neon was a little rude but yeah hes generally right, you could theoretically make it work with a huge amount of support but full terrain teams are super mid at best

id say youd have a better chance making an achu lucha koko core work best in natdex and then expanding from there, MAKE SURE TO ADD CYCLIZAR AND KOKO VSWITCH NATURES MADNESS DGLEAM ROOST https://pokepast.es/0330a82d5203edf5

[zealous plover]

okay yeah I did come off as a bit rude in hindsight. Sorry abt that.
What I mentioned still stands though. Just didn't mean to address it like that.

[royal wedge]

no its ok

[royal wedge]

https://pokepast.es/8afb0507e334acd2

is this better

[spice crest]

aight thank you

tho harsh, i believe its all true in all

i didn't find it harsh at all

thanks guys

ill knock myself out a tier and whatnot

[spice crest]

also ill try to make a slush rush team or swift swim team knowing about theres better alternatives to this type of team

might start on a natdex rain team
i might post it here before ill try using it

[gloomy bluff]

ok what are you trying to play

stall, hyper offense

it seems more of a very bulky defense

[royal wedge]

I don’t really care

[gloomy bluff]

not helpful

I learned this the hard way that currently hyper offense or pure defense is currently the best

but with the amount of wall breakers in ubers it may still be a good idea to do that

[royal wedge]

I guess hyper offense how would I change it though

[gloomy bluff]

if it's nat dex than post it in the ou thread

@cursive idol

yo

wait @royal wedge are you in the natdex ubers server?

[royal wedge]

No

[gloomy bluff]

https://discord.gg/XrCyJeQy

[cursive idol]

ack

[royal wedge]

I pressed log in

It showed this

[gloomy bluff]

talk to mods

+vpn?

[ornate violet]

https://pokepast.es/00b6833bdee69894

any opinions are welcome but pls dont swear

[radiant quest]

Here we go again

3. Your team must be competitive, and you must be willing to have it optimized. We will not stop you from using whatever team you want, but if it’s not competitive, it does not belong here. If you are building a "fun AG team" and don't want to use viable Pokemon because you don't like them, this is the wrong place.

In short, a team that doesn’t allow legendaries is suboptimal

[ornate violet]

It is competitive tho

[radiant quest]

In short, no

[covert comet]

remove bundle and espathra and play it in ou

and marsh

[cursive idol]

cough
not even close

[finite dragon]

https://pokepast.es/54548492114855e6

[pearl remnant]

i have zero competitive experience https://pokepast.es/457f5faae4acaee3

[cursive idol]

you lack an arc forme, which would be very beneficial to this team. i recommend replacing marsh.
make pdon tera flying
if you want xern can tera ground
always thunder/thunderbolt over psyshock because the only relevant poison is etern
ho-oh should be running twave/toxic instead of earthquake, i dont recommend staying in on unscouted pdons because they are likely to carry rock coverage

i hate that unecro set, 4a is a bad set
run one of the ultra setup sets on the NDM analysis
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/necrozma-dusk-mane/

3a+recover etern running max hp with no SpA is pointless, run one of the sample sets instead
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/eternatus/national-dex-ubers/

on pdon since you are adding a support arc forme over marsh, you should run double dance or utility sd with spikes. refer to the samples for these.
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/groudon/

top arc sample is what i recommend. run judgment/recover/(taunt/toxic)/rocks
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/arceus-fairy/national-dex-ubers/

[cursive idol]

i assume its ubers due to espathra, but please read #1024432517077540904 next time...

3. Your team must be competitive, and you must be willing to have it optimized. We will not stop you from using whatever team you want, but if it’s not competitive, it does not belong here. If you are building a "fun AG team" and don't want to use viable Pokemon because you don't like them, this is the wrong place.

Resources

• Ubers Tiering Policy
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kNcINgwfmNdgawXPs-H-mJefw7aU1Lps2Y5ekmlRqF4/edit?usp=sharing
• National Dex Mechanics
  https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-mechanics-thread.3656786/
• National Dex Ubers Viability Rankings
  https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-viability-rankings.3712169/
• National Dex Ubers Sample Teams
  https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-sample-teams.3712170/
• National Dex Ubers Set Compendium
  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tGaKWW_K335osoPn5oGgZAhlEFZuRrABhAOM0aY7Hao/edit
• National Dex Ubers Teambuilding Compendium
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l4uy2AVWNuYid5gO9hXKE1OpQaXE5RegsX5kfYEsDxo/edit?usp=sharing
• National Dex Ubers Speed Tiers
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a1Wjdt_OMaxOadjSct0O7PYry5yHaJKceVo-5Ck98nk/edit?usp=sharing

[gloomy bluff]

why the blunder policy even if you do wanna use it

[gloomy bluff]

1st off, if you want to complain about legends in ubers, (the place for them mind you) don't play ubers

get rid of flutter and decent natdex team

at thud point, just restart

[zealous plover]

What's wrong with Bulky Etern running 3A.

Sure Tspikes is good, but by no means is Etern obligated to run it.

Not being fodder for CMceus or Xern is still useful.

also puts more immediate pressure on switch ins and Ho-Oh since you can threaten an immediate poison rather than one the next time they come in.

You could also run Toxic to accomplish this, but Sludge Bomb improves the ArcFairy and Xern MUs so well I feel like it's, while still good, inferior to both options.

[brave berry]

https://pokepast.es/198b55b5650e5971
Mono fire made to beat mono water, psychic, and normal

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @rocky saffron, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[shell patrol]

https://pokepast.es/f01c64ad98c020c0
Could I get tips on improving my TR fairy team?

[soft lion]

Ok, so I'm not trying to be a dick but to be brutally honest the only way to improve the team is to not use TR...

It's strictly worse than a "standard" Fairy comp

[shell patrol]

Anything else?
I’m trying to make a TR team for every eligible type

[soft lion]

It's really hard to say

The archetype just isn't good

What you have doesn't even take advantage of TR

Togekiss for sure can go

Tapu Bulu might be a good addition to have a physical presence

Azu too

[shell patrol]

Good idea

[shell patrol]

Got Bulu in
https://pokepast.es/b6bddbd45030ae47

[covert comet]

https://pokepast.es/f7c892eea4642117

rmt uu sand

how do i fix my crippling water weakness

[solid sapphire]

NDUbers: https://pokepast.es/b6a9063d9204c1a0

[vivid pike]

NDRU Trick Room:
https://pokepast.es/9997319415b35da5
so far i have weaknesses covered

may change vika's item to Life Orb for extra damage since i have roost

changed one of Gothi's moves to toxic since i can't risk speed drops in Trick Room

[radiant quest]

@sonic summit I think you play ndru

[sonic summit]

I do

[sonic summit]

Will touch on this later since i'm out rn

I will say that Iron Hands is banned and it's best replacement is conkeldurr

[vivid pike]

Iron fist or guts?

So here's what i now have set up for my physical beast of a Conkeldur since I'll move Iron Hands onto a team with Orthworm since belly drum needs a substitute to set up safely

Guts, Flame Orb, Brave Nature with no IVs in Speed and Special Attack since those aren't the stats i don't care about for trick room physicals, Bulk Up since i can't find swords dance, Drain Punch for stab and recovery, Facade for Flying, and Psychic types even if it's neutral, Poison Jab for Fairy and Grass types

[sonic summit]

Guts

[vivid pike]

Or i can replace bulk up with sub

[sonic summit]

Ok so to put it bluntly this TR team is unviable, Gardevoir, Gothitelle, and Vickavolt are to weak/outclassed to be used in a trick room setting

Imo TR needs to follow a strict structure of Stakataka, Porygon2, Cresselia, and Maro-A/Camerupt-Mega

The last two slots are customizable but I typically run Sash Xatu + TR breaker there

[vivid pike]

darn, Vikavolt's my boy

so on staka, should i replace gyro with heavy slam?

[sonic summit]

No run Gyro Ball

[vivid pike]

gyroball functions the same in Trick room as it does out of it?

[edgy sparrow]

ye

[vivid pike]

sucks i can't use Vikavolt though

[sweet gull]

Does anyone have a natdex ubers team i can use, haven’t played in ages so unfamiliar with metas etc

[tribal kraken]

not for here, thats tor #comp-general

theres also the nd ubers samples

[sweet gull]

My bad sorry!

[edgy torrent]

NatDex AG: https://pokepast.es/d52ff3a0577bc72b

[dry ridge]

New NatDex AG RMT @feral jasper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tribal kraken]

now if it were an nd godly gift team we could possibly change it to make it work but yeah this would have to change everything to be even somewhat viable

[glass marlin]

Here is my crappy Nat UU team

[weak pewter]

isnt mgarde like

c tier

ik im not very qualified but i did look at the vr yesterday

[radiant quest]

@fleet sand nduu

[fleet sand]

uhh idk what youre going for here at all because none of this team makes sense except for magnezone and i guess gard

we don't have samples yet but heres an example of a good NDUU team

https://pokepast.es/be654dec1dbfc0ce

iron treads isn't too different from excadrill, it just can't run toxic

and exca prefers leftovers

take a look at the VR as well, youll find galvantula is completely useless

and you have absolutely no way to deal with weavile

who will come in on turn 1 and end the game immediately

weavile does this to most teams, but they usually have 1 answer to it

[zealous plover]

https://pokepast.es/e77f3074e586865d
NDUU
Very scuffed BlaziBulu Gterrain.

[dry ridge]

New NatDex UU RMT @fleet sand. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[zealous plover]

First team for the tier so uh
probably a mess

Weavile Cplay is very bad, literally just Sciz + Blazi and hope outplay.

[fleet sand]

Yeah that’s about the best you can do anyway

This is pretty decent for the current meta, tho you have no answers to bird spam

Even after we had to remove pinsir for bird spam being too stupid

[zealous plover]

is there like
anything I can slot to help with that

[fleet sand]

I can help with that once I sit down

[zealous plover]

Alright, take your time.

kind of wish I could've slotted Slowbro/King for Fsight to give Blazi's CC the extra punch to break Dozo, but it's whatever.

[fleet sand]

Oh you can probably slot cinderace there instead

Run electro ball

[zealous plover]

Blaziken + Bulu was kind of the idea of the structure though.

[fleet sand]

Oh, not sure what to do then

[zealous plover]

also Weav MU is already rough, removing Blazi feels like that would make it even worse.

[fleet sand]

Blaziken is basically killing the team

And you can slot better weavile answers elsewhere

Because there it’s probably just better to abuse weavile yourself

Instead of blaziken

There really isn’t any reason not to run weavile

Also blaziken does not fit on these squads

Where you’re running defog mons and a gliscor

Also gliscor doesn’t fit with a bulu

If you want a blaziken squad, a good start would on HO with Sandy Shocks and Serperior

Sandy shocks also fits on the bulu team as well

And instead of specs latios you run mega latios

And change mence for like a fini

[zealous plover]

out of curiosity, is there any particular reason? Is the meta just not hospitable to SD Gterrain Blazi in general? Or is it some other factor.

[fleet sand]

well its just for one bulu + blaziken is done better by serp + blaziken

and weavile is so broken you basically need to abuse it

if youre not abusing weavile youre running something like HO blaziken

[zealous plover]

I see.

[fleet sand]

which is not the squad bulu fits on

basically, run hyper offense or youre an idiot

which is an exaggeration of the meta

but you get my point

[zealous plover]

but uh yeah, I'll swap that stuff out and get back to you with a seperate Blazi team later.

(I dunno why, I just had the sudden urge to run Blaziken on something today)

[fleet sand]

its fine, its pretty good on HO

just not on something like a bulky offense like you have

[zealous plover]

oh yeah obviously Blaziken wouldn't be bad (idt just one gen of power creep would be enough to do in a former UUBL lol)

just was still stuck in my SwSh mindset ig

[fleet sand]

https://pokepast.es/6e48b35a0aa7a160

heres a skeleton of what i was thinking of changing

oh change ace to weavile and youre good

[zealous plover]

on the original or this?

[fleet sand]

on this

[zealous plover]

what's the Paldea Tauros set like?

[fleet sand]

the reason tauros-w is good is because it checks weavile and breaks screens

you can run bulk up + protect with Tera fairy

or just choice band

the bulk up sets good when you need a more dedicated weavile answer

and an excadrill answer too

[zealous plover]

oh wait hold on

how does this team Defog

[fleet sand]

you don't

just try to power through with boots + levitate

and grassy terrain

[zealous plover]

https://pokepast.es/d770f2af67c13980

[fleet sand]

latios set would be psychic + aura sphere + tbolt

https://pokepast.es/6086212cbf29ecf6

scizor to steel tera

[zealous plover]

alright, I'll probs be back later with another if that's okay (still wanna try to make smth with Blaziken)

[fleet sand]

yeah thats fine

[zealous plover]

https://pokepast.es/3bee06f6eb7a6314
NDUU

@fleet sand sorry to bother you again, but I'm back, don't worry about it rn if you're busy, I'm in no rush.

[fleet sand]

Looks good to me

Maybe consider sub calm mind blacephalon over aegislash if stall becomes an issue

But looks good

[zealous plover]

ty

[zealous plover]

oh, since I already have Fly-Z used up by Gmolt, what would I run instead of Ghost-Z?

[fleet sand]

Leftovers

[zealous plover]

I'm assuming either replace Molt's item, or give Blace lefties or smth

figured

For some reason really just wanted to scratch an itch using Blaziken
Very satisfying mon to use when it works out.

[atomic cipher]

Do u do national dex AG in here?

Venusaur @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk

• Synthesis
• Giga Drain
• Growth
• Toxic

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature

• Dragon Darts
• U-turn
• Fly
• Phantom Force

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: Skill Link
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Shell Smash
• Toxic
• Ice Shard
• Icicle Spear

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

• Haze
• Recover
• Toxic
• Scald

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Earthquake
• Rock Slide
• Outrage
• Shadow Claw

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Thunder Punch
• Ice Punch
• Swords Dance
• Close Combat

[cursive idol]

3. Your team must be competitive, and you must be willing to have it optimized. We will not stop you from using whatever team you want, but if it’s not competitive, it does not belong here. If you are building a "fun AG team" and don't want to use viable Pokemon because you don't like them, this is the wrong place.

also ag at this point is revcats meta

[finite dragon]

https://pokepast.es/d7a4445c65b1bb4b

Nat Dex BH

[brave berry]

https://pokepast.es/3a60b47da3ffac3d
Nat dex monotype psychic

[dry ridge]

New NatDex Mono RMT @rocky saffron, @soft lion, @worthy fjord, @grim cobalt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tribal kraken]

@tranquil trail

[tranquil trail]

no fuckin way

ndbh rate

[tranquil trail]

so the main structural issue is the team has no defensive core while being unable to keep up momentum as an offense team

also none of the mons are improofed

[finite dragon]

What does improved mean

Improofed

[tranquil trail]

to improof (imposterproof) a mon is to have another mon (or the mon itself) for when imposter chansey comes in

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

for this team to be fixed quite a few mons are gonna have to be removed, which ones do you want to build around

[finite dragon]

Idk

Well

I need a wall

Like the Lugia

Similar set I guess

[tranquil trail]

yeah most teams need a defensive core and that typically takes 3-4 mons

[finite dragon]

I was thinking Giratina

[tranquil trail]

giratinas not too bad

[finite dragon]

But it didn't want too much type overlap

[tranquil trail]

yeah both are weak to dark and ghost thats not great

[finite dragon]

And I already have 2 dragons

And a ghost

[tranquil trail]

perhaps you can change lugia to giratina

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

then we can support it with other things

[finite dragon]

What's bout the 3 drags?

[tranquil trail]

dialga is good but not with a mg set because its pretty slow

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

thats done better by mmy

[finite dragon]

Aight

And

[tranquil trail]

you could do ice scales so you have a miraidon check because that guy runs through your team

[finite dragon]

MMX is the one on my team that has been lacking the most

As in

Had the least success

But I haven't had it for sd long as the others

[tranquil trail]

yeah serene grace mmx needs a lot of support to work well, might need to remove that one

[finite dragon]

Aight

So

For the Lugia

Replace w giratina

Leftovers

Ice scales

Same moves?

[tranquil trail]

oh giratina wouldnt have ice scales

dialga would

im thinking about whether ph giratina could work

yeah i dont really think so

[finite dragon]

Ok

So like stamina?

Also what moves should dialga have?

[tranquil trail]

Ability: Prankster  
Tera Type: Water / Steel  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe  
Calm Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Core Enforcer  
- Haze  
- Heal Order  
- Parting Shot / Glare / Destiny Bond / Encore```

[tranquil trail]

stamina is outclassed by fc

[finite dragon]

Aight

[finite dragon]

It is?

[tranquil trail]

yeah

[finite dragon]

Thought it was better

[tranquil trail]

fc gives you 2x def immediately

stamina takes you 2 hits to work that well

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

Ability: Ice Scales  
Tera Type: Normal  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD  
Sassy Nature  
IVs: 0 Spe  
- Anchor Shot / Teleport
- Core Enforcer  
- Spectral Thief  
- Heal Order```

[finite dragon]

Also what if I had strength sap instead of heal order

And nuzzle instead of glare

Wait

Nuzzle

Is countered by covert cloak

[tranquil trail]

kind of suspicious, sap gets blocked by dark

[finite dragon]

And ground types

[finite dragon]

Oh yea

Also for dialga

It's not blocked by dark types

[tranquil trail]

yeah though sap doesnt heal well vs special attackers

so its not v good

[finite dragon]

Well like

I've seen it be used in my gengar

And it healed like 30%

[tranquil trail]

compared to heal order's 50%

cause you want to wall special attackers but special attackers tend to have low atk so you heal less than if you use heal order

[finite dragon]

I was saying that the amount needed to be higher isn't that high

Ok

[tranquil trail]

something that would complete the def core very well is this ```Arceus-Water @ Covert Cloak / Ability Shield
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Scald
• Topsy-Turvy / Entrainment
• Heal Order
• Teleport```

[finite dragon]

What should I replace for that

[tranquil trail]

probably the mmx

[finite dragon]

Also why does dialga have tera normal?

[tranquil trail]

to be immune to moongeist beam

cause specs moongeist beam gengar 2hkos it

[finite dragon]

Ok

What about astral Barrage?

Isn't that better?

[tranquil trail]

it runs both

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

moongeist beam ignores scales thats why

[finite dragon]

Ok

But we still have the triple dragon problem

[tranquil trail]

yeah

so i think kyu-w is pretty bad because its slow and its weak to stealth rock

[finite dragon]

Also why the heck would Arceus have an ability shield?

[tranquil trail]

to ignore sunsteel strike from tinted lens tera steel band zacian-crowned

and photon geyser from mmx

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

its a more niche option though

[finite dragon]

Yeah

I'm running cloak

[tranquil trail]

so im thinking we replace kyuw with a hazard remover

[finite dragon]

Ok

Defog or one of the spins?

[tranquil trail]

Ability: Intrepid Sword / Dauntless Shield  
Tera Type: Grass  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- V-create  
- Mortal Spin
- Electro Drift / Glacial Lance / U-Turn
- Heal Order```

something like this

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

this gives you a fairy resist

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

diancie does a lot better when its primary move is boomburst because unlike population bomb it doesnt require an item nor do you die to rocky helmet

[finite dragon]

Ok

So

Boomburst

And

What else?

Specs?

[tranquil trail]

im thinking the set is boomburst extreme speed stone axe/rapid spin headlong rush

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

actually probably stone axe cause you want hazards

item can be groundium z as that ohkos dialga and im pretty sure groudon too

[finite dragon]

Aight

Z moves are pretty good

What's bout the gengar?

You said moongeist right?

[tranquil trail]

yeah

Ability: Beads of Ruin  
Tera Type: Ghost  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Astral Barrage  
- Moongeist Beam  
- Fleur Cannon  
- Volt Switch```
heres the set

[finite dragon]

https://pokepast.es/c8cbe85b4693a5b8

[tranquil trail]

love my partingshotglaredestinybondencore giratina

think parting shot might be good here for an extra pivot

[finite dragon]

Oh yeah

If it's specs it don't need d dance

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

wait i noticed a problem diancie has no improof

easiest thing to do is change headlong to close combat so groudon can switch in

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

and i think that should do it

[finite dragon]

What about triple arrows

Pl

But what about the z crystal

Fighting Z?

@tranquil trail

[tranquil trail]

oh

yeah

[tranquil trail]

seems too rng-reliant

[finite dragon]

Ok

[tranquil trail]

most of the time youre using cc its gonna be on a resist so you want immediate power

[finite dragon]

Ok

Aight well thanks for the team stuff

[tranquil trail]

yeah np

[trail river]

My UU team, I’m still new, replace venusaur with buzzwole heavy duty boots and gliscor has toxic orb

[kind sandal]

https://pokepast.es/da70f6891731d1a8 nd ubers i think this is where it goes and not #1059901370477576272 oops

[cursive idol]

it simply doesnt end...

not a single viable mon

3. Your team must be competitive, and you must be willing to have it optimized. We will not stop you from using whatever team you want, but if it’s not competitive, it does not belong here. If you are building a "fun AG team" and don't want to use viable Pokemon because you don't like them, this is the wrong place.

[gloomy bluff]

wtf is this

https://pokepast.es/3901092b7ddae91c
this is a competitively viable

https://pokepast.es/2db416b7b6b0b3ec

^ this is not as good bc of Lando-I but other than that its fine

if you want to play with mons like this. play Natdex or NDUU

[zealous plover]

Imma be real with you chief
these aren't very good either

[gloomy bluff]

what about the second one is bad? other than lando

[zealous plover]

HO with no lead (or even just hazards for that matter)
very sub-optimal sets
Zygarde is bad on HO
Gets completely run over by opposing Zacian
etc.

[gloomy bluff]

what should i replace garde with

[zealous plover]

You'd have to drastically change the entire team to really have anything resembling a strong HO

I'd just look at samples and go from there.

[zealous plover]

None of the mons here are remotely viable, to put it lightly
I'd reccomend looking at samples and familiarizing yourself with the tier before building.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-resources-thread.3712170/

[gloomy bluff]

@zealous plover what is the best check for P-Don ?

norm people get cocky so i OHKO them with lando-I

it does not say anything on the dex page

last gen ditto was good but idk now

[zealous plover]

on HO? MegaMence

[gloomy bluff]

k sick

would this work or nah?
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Dragon Dance
• Return
• Earthquake
• Roost

[zealous plover]

32 HP to live Koraidon Dragon Claw from full, Double-Edge > Return, and Facade > EQ (reason being you overwhelm a majority of steels anyway by just setting up on them, bc only Magearna and SD NDM can really do anything to stop you, and you'd rather the utility of being able to fearlessly come in on Ho-Oh/Defensive Pdon.)

just in general though, Giratina Origin wins by a total landslide.

But it doesn't really fit on HO, and MegaMence is the next best thing for those structures.

[normal musk]

any RU teams ping me

[gloomy bluff]

double edge has recoil, return does not

to me it seems like personal prefrence

i may be wrong tho

[zealous plover]

Situations where Double-Edge's higher rolls come up more often than Return's no recoil does.

if you don't mind the power drop it's still okay though

I wouldn't use it myself, but it is an option on teams that want to preserve Mmence for longer periods.

[cursive idol]

isnt mence also bulky enough to get roosts off

[zealous plover]

that too

requires specific play to prevent Mence from getting a roost off.

and even then if it's boosted and you have smth in that punishes it for clicking roost, into more offensive teams that don't mind saccing Mence to not give up momentum, they can just Kamikaze into you and punish your attempt to punish.

they don't even have to KO in a lot of cases with it, sometimes just having Mence go down and get chip off on its switch in can be enough to get another offensive threat in to consistently put the opponent on the backfoot.

[gloomy bluff]

fixed some stuffhttps://pokepast.es/dd71f0d1c433d46b

idk if i should put suckerpunch on yveltal or keep oblivion wing.

also replace defog with jungle healing

seismic toss*

[sonic summit]

same here

[vivid pike]

https://pokepast.es/e621b3d887eaf10d nat dex UU, can switch to TR because i need to have something to do while everyone else fights amatsu and risen shagaru

[dry ridge]

New NatDex UU RMT @fleet sand. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fleet sand]

Oh shit I gotta play some Mh soon

Forgot about shagaru

Anyway

[vivid pike]

didn't mean to ping you by proxy

[fleet sand]

Shed tail just got banned from OU

Also no it’s supposed to ping me

[vivid pike]

ah so orthworm is off the team

[fleet sand]

Yeah, exca and ting-Lu together don’t make sense

Webs and galvantula are both terrible

Cuz exca exists

As does iron treads

[vivid pike]

well there goes my belly drum set up

maybe i can go subswdance, but i'll only have drain and thunder punch offensively

changed Tpunch for wildcharge

https://pokepast.es/35d0cc29872a1933 okay so updates, might change iron hand's sitrus berry for life orb or expert belt or even booster

dunno what to give zone

but i probably have enought steel types

[gloomy bluff]

what is the best tera for zacian,

[vivid pike]

Probably steel or fighting

[gloomy bluff]

"probably"

zacian is weak to fire and ground already

that is a shit tera

[gloomy bluff]

somebody on nd other tiers said that its good but idk

https://pokepast.es/f97c4a6611db2c52

[gloomy bluff]

Its a Nat dex Ubers team

@zealous plover

[night monolith]

https://pokepast.es/a901d09ebe5b1914 ndubers

tried building round dd ultra

etern in particular feels weird

[zealous plover]

ngl, Xern MU is very

esp since Outrage into that MU essentially means you have a dead moveslot just to not give it a free turn.

I think Unecro is more of an HO mon and doesn't really work on these structures, if you want I'd be happy to try and work on this (though it'd have to scrap Unecro)

[night monolith]

oh sure scrapping necro is fine

what works well in its place, regular ndm?

[gloomy bluff]

@velvet rover yo gg man

[neat hazel]

https://pokepast.es/c8987655c0386cc8 idk

tried to make a defensive core with giratina and arceus

ngl i had no idea what i was doing when making this team

so most of these mons probably fdont synergize well
def need to fix some of the sets too lulz

[zealous plover]

Hey, sorry I forgot about this for a while.
First thing I reccomend is making NDM Defensive, like I mentioned earlier, Unecro has a lot of trouble slotting on Balance cores, and this team really would appreciate the defensive backbone.

Is there anything here you'd like to specifically build around from here? Or do you want to generally optimize it?

[night monolith]

its all good and thank you

[night monolith]

mmence or mmy would be nice, otherwise if those wont fit just optimizing it would be just fine

[zealous plover]

MMY and MegaMence are both very doable for this kinda structure luckily

MegaMence is a lot more convenient to fit on than MMY in general, but take your pick.

[night monolith]

aight mmence then

[zealous plover]

Okay in that case
DD Mence can slot over Etern, it still gives you a secondary Pyogre check, and a Ho-Oh Switch in with Facade

32 HP EVs can let it live Koraidon's Dragon Claw from full, but I wouldn't go much higher than that.

[night monolith]

aight ty

and thats it?

just defensive ndm>ultra and mmence>tern?

[zealous plover]

No there's a bit more, Zacian should be Tera Fighting CC Rather than Tera Dark Crunch

and suspect the defensive core is a bit sub-optimal, but I need some time to really think abt it to be totally sure.

[night monolith]

ok

does tera fighting cc still beat ndm?

[zealous plover]

yes

[night monolith]

k cool

oh right prism armor

keep forgetting

[zealous plover]

Tera Fighting CC Also means you beat non-defensive variants of Pdon more consistently on top of that

and pressure even Defensive Variants quite hard

[marsh salmon]

https://pokepast.es/6ee819d1071aed79
nd dou

[gloomy bluff]

what is the purpose of koko?

[marsh salmon]

support, pivot

inspired by the av koko set from sm vgcs

[gloomy bluff]

sorry im thinking last gen

koko was not in OU last gen i dont think

[sonic sleet]

Dozo mu looks dire, how do you deal with urshifu rapid?

[marsh salmon]

i keep forgetting shifus exist

probably just hit it with koko/bundle

[sonic sleet]

Id replace wo chien with tsareena

[marsh salmon]

do dozos run oblivious or unaware

[sonic sleet]

Also helps with genesect for non gholdengo mons

[gloomy bluff]

also why electro web

[sonic sleet]

I run una personally

[marsh salmon]

speed control

[sonic sleet]

Una sub is the broken set imo

[gloomy bluff]

why not just use a webs setter

wait no i keep thinking nd ubers

im so sorry

[sonic sleet]

You can disregard dozo tho, we are most likely banning it

[marsh salmon]

then gameplan is probably intim and chip with nm and ruination and lower damage with tablets

[sonic sleet]

The real issue is rapid and kinda single

Terad urshifu s does a lot to koko

Afaik

[marsh salmon]

what tera does it run

[sonic sleet]

I think dark is better but ive seen people run poison with av

Sorry internet went out for a bit

[sonic sleet]

Oh yea btw you dont have to worry abt that anymore

We just banned commander by vote

[zealous plover]

hey sorry I took a while on this.
I'm starting to realize this is panning out to be very similar to a team I made. One of the differences being MegaMence over Pyogre
https://pokepast.es/c0f59b961596e9f1
Should probably still be fine, again, it's similar to smth I've built, just Gira-O was Physically Oriented, and MegaMence was Pyogre lol.

https://pokepast.es/be4c9d56b0d9d3b6
just in case you want to see what I'm talking abt.

[thorny hearth]

https://pokepast.es/6e69874dbcefa6d3

mega bee + zone voltturn

my first natdex uu team

[gloomy bluff]

yo @cursive idol
https://pokepast.es/06ca37bcc3cae296
how is this?

im running Hyper offence but idk if its all that good

im thinking of replacing arc to ghostceus

[cursive idol]

alright

so first what i see

[gloomy bluff]

i also dont have hazard removal so i may switch to a diffrent yev

[cursive idol]

is there is no steal rock

[gloomy bluff]

yvel^

[cursive idol]

stealth

[gloomy bluff]

alr

[cursive idol]

i honestly dont know about yvel on hyper offense

its been a while since i played ubers
so im gonna ping neon

[gloomy bluff]

hes offline

[cursive idol]

@zealous plover

[gloomy bluff]

idk

[cursive idol]

its fine

he'll get to it later

[gloomy bluff]

alr

but normally what i do is get webs set up, switch to mmence, and sweep from there

in other words i may switch to ho-oh, and replace arc with ghostceus

[zealous plover]

Yvel is fine on HO

arguably even great

[gloomy bluff]

yeah its been working good

[zealous plover]

this set however is not

[gloomy bluff]

but i need hazard removal

[zealous plover]

LO > Black Glasses Sucker Punch/Heat Wave > Toxic

[zealous plover]

HO doesn't bother with hazard removal.

this team also just has really weird structural issues

[gloomy bluff]

oh

[zealous plover]

you have Webs
but no rocks
Zacian's tera is extremely off + No SD
Smeargle set is sub-optimal
etc.

[gloomy bluff]

ight

[zealous plover]

Whirlwind > Circle Throw, and Taunt > Topsy-Turvy on Smeargle.

Then either Rapid or Mortal Spin > Spore

also you really want Jolly on Yvel

lets you taunt Xern reliably before it can get a Geomancy off to prevent it from using you as setup bait.

[zealous plover]

https://pokepast.es/5e37d02a4ce59f99
smth like this should probably suffice

If you need anything explained, please lmk.

[wise prawn]

https://pokepast.es/9d06029929a2596c

Nat dex ubers

[night monolith]

think luna would want boots, its your defogger and it would rather not have hazards break shadow shield

otherwise @zealous plover

[wise prawn]

my team got ripped apart from primal groudon+primal kyogre

[zealous plover]

I'll get to this later, I'd end up having to end up disappearing intervally for a bit and I'd rather do a rate in one full sitting.

[gloomy bluff]

why get rid of spore?

other than the never used arc grass or shaymen sky, there is no grass types

[finite shadow]

first real attempt at a sun team doesn't feel like it has good synergy though any tips? https://pokepast.es/01f60fe4d71fe049

[limpid haven]

You're gonna need some proto mons ngl

[zealous plover]

bc other moves are just more important.

[finite shadow]

alr anything I should add to assist wake if the opponent plays a wake counter

[zealous plover]

Taunt Means mons can't defog on you, Whirlwind means you're not set up bait, Magic Coat means you can win against opposing leads.
All without enacting sleep clause.

[gloomy bluff]

it does not have magic coat on it?

• Mortal Spin
• Sticky Web
• Whirlwind
• Taunt

[zealous plover]

Magic Coat as another option, sorry.

Can occasionally be fit over Taunt, but it's rare.

[gloomy bluff]

ah

alr

[marble stone]

i wanted to try this mechanic in this server so here goes
https://pokepast.es/8f2813b1b6cd7e3b
@tranquil trail

[tranquil trail]

this is a good start but you need hazard control and both mmx and groudon lack an improof

i would probably axe solar blade on groudon for something, swap edge for mortal spin, and put worry seed on waterceus over topsy
not the best improof but somewhat serviceable

for miraidon i recommend uturn over volt switch because if you get blocked by tinglu you just sack all your momentum, ice beam also doesnt hit anything dragon doesnt so id recommend draco meteor instead

[tepid grail]

https://pokepast.es/8f4736055b296c24 hear me out alright but I need all advice celesteela + wo chein fire uu

National dex uu

[radiant quest]

Mega bee lmao

[tepid grail]

Whole teams based off leech seed and chipping

[radiant quest]

Mega bee is trash