VGC Rates

[sleek laurel]

Agreed with everything ^

[lost phoenix]

And make archa some type of lando i

Either scarf or life orb

And also make whimsi the standard set, with light screen and encore

Instead of taunt and tect

[sleek laurel]

Also you should check some EV spreads

[lost phoenix]

And tera dark + cloak

[sleek laurel]

Tect is fine if they’re running Sash but Cloak is just better on this team yea

[sleek laurel]

Because pretty much all of them except Miraidon want to run more specialized EV spreads

There are some in the dex but I can send them here too

[lost phoenix]

Cloak enables the kyogre whimsi and mirai whimsi lead far more, and you need better leads on such a team since you forgo iron hands

[sleek laurel]

^

Tbh

Arch could also become Urshifu instead

Because you have

Zero

Physical offense

And a LOT of Special offense

[lost phoenix]

I dont really think you can do that without slot compressing further here

Much rather would do rmoon hands instead of whimsi incin in such a case

[sleek laurel]

I thought of Hands after I said that too

But you need the Speed control outside of Tailwind so Hands alone might not be it

[lost phoenix]

Or alternatively, iron treads for the mirai mirror instead

[sleek laurel]

Actually wait

This can work too

Lemme summarize

One of Landorus-I, Iron Treads, or Iron Hands over Archaludon (Hands can work fine if you can handle yourself without a Scarfer, just beware of Speed control)

Go standard SmogDex Covert Cloak Whimsicott

Go standard SmogDex Electric Seed Farigiraf

Fix your EV spreads, ping me if you need me to slide them to you

Run Mystic Water Kyogre (I like the Hydro Pump variant more here because you have no Urshifu-R, but Origin Pulse can work too)

The more I look at it, the more I like the Iron Treads idea here

It gives you Ground-type coverage and a very fast mon that Miraidon can’t hope to reliably break with any Tera, while also giving you Physical offense which you lack

Glimmer ur goated

[lost phoenix]

I am pretty good at kyogre what can i say

[sleek laurel]

True…

[haughty crag]

which set is good for iron treads?

[sleek laurel]

Life Orb or Choice Band

Either can work

Lemme get the full set for you

[lost phoenix]

You forgot to mention the kyogre set change btw

[sleek laurel]

Mbmb

[haughty crag]

can you help me with EV spreads, I am really bad at those

[sleek laurel]

Yes

Lemme get a paste for you rq

[haughty crag]

guh, I just realised that I have been using blaze incin this entire time, I forgot to change the ability lmao

[sleek laurel]

LMAO

I had that happen once

And was corrected by my OPPONENT in a Bo3 game

[haughty crag]

I played like 20 battles with that team

[sleek laurel]

https://pokepast.es/f61ba64582a7c144

there ya go goat

Tera Dark Farigiraf was something I stole from a few Worlds teams, it allows you to OHKO +1 Calyrex-Ice with Foul Play after surviving a +1 Glacial Lance with the Electric Seed boost

[haughty crag]

I will report back to you after a few battles

[sleek laurel]

It’s malleable but that has come in handy so many times per experience, compared to other Tera types which I barely ever clicked

[sleek laurel]

Good luck!

[sleek laurel]

But another option is standard Tera Water to take Glacial Lances and opposing Kyogre’s attacks better, whichever you think you click more often you can go with

[haughty crag]

team has been doing pretty good, played like 6 battles

lost only one

[sleek laurel]

Nice

Good job

[strange sparrow]

anyway i can deal with grass types with this team?

https://pokepast.es/706ee4daf60adaa9

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

deal with in what sense

or moreso

what grass types are you struggling w.

[strange sparrow]

rillaboom gets annoying

tera grass kyogre

[broken shuttle]

i think it's playable here

i would go a diff item on indd

so you can be more proactive about swapping it

altho seed is fine if you don't mind giving up the boost for terrain control

[strange sparrow]

?

im asking how do i change my team to deal with grass types

[sleek laurel]

i think defensively speaking Grass-types aren't that annoying

you have a lot of neutral STAB coverage into them

and Ursaluna OHKOs every relevant one anyway except ig Sinistcha

[strange sparrow]

like flash cannon right

[strange sparrow]

ohhhhh

alr

facade?

[sleek laurel]

flash cannon, knock off, ursaluna

yea

i think

vs offensive grasses

your plan should be

prioritize trick room

and hit them with the big facade

[strange sparrow]

i luuuuuuvvvv facade spam

do i keep tera ghost

[sleek laurel]

yes

fake out immunity is crucial especially with tr

especially vs Rillaboom

which seems to be the most annoying Grass-type here

and honestly everywhere too

[kindred kiln]

Made a basic rain team for reg I i think its okay but i feel like I cant really do alot with low physical attackers https://pokepast.es/9771aa3e88b71225

Since its just urshifu rn

Meant to put tera type for urshifu as water idk why its still fighting oops

[broken shuttle]

seems fine to me

i would maybe try chien-pao over archaludon and choice scarf urshifu

then putting AV on kyogre

if you do that you could def consider going farig>lando asw

i think archaludon just feels kind of unnecessary here

like you don’t necessarily need an additional dragon type here, you already have miraidon

i also like the idea of something like this: https://pokepast.es/739484710ac3c2bc

you could even do a somewhat fast iron hands to get the jump on incineroar & hit some benchmarks under tailwind

[reef bridge]

https://pokepast.es/13b51753625722d1 rate my team pls :) and im also newbie

[broken shuttle]

hello again

[reef bridge]

hi!

[broken shuttle]

the format that we’re currently in is regulation i, which is a double restricted format, and your team does not have any restricteds

i would check this link out for an overview of what the meta is looking at & inspiration for building: https://victoryroad.pro/2025-milwaukee/

[reef bridge]

I didn't understand, what does it mean?

Oh, so I have to use the same Pokémon that these guys use?

[kindred kiln]

You can use 2 strong legendaries like Groudon and Lunala as example

[reef bridge]

ohhhh sure

okay ill update mu team

thanks

[obsidian wadi]

hi all some nice people on here recently helped me and I think the teams pretty good and I just finished building it in Pokemon Violet in hopes to go to a local tournament soon and I just wanted to see anyone else’s thoughts on the team before I register

https://pokepast.es/6919c4475d2eedeb

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jovial creek]

This looks pretty good

One small change

I'd go tera grass kyogre

[sleek laurel]

Tera Grass Kyogre and Tera Ghost Chien-Pao

[jovial creek]

Holy shit we do not need the avengers

[sleek laurel]

Are the only things I can view yea

[jovial creek]

I was here first

Also ghost pao yeah

[broken shuttle]

no u weren’t

i was

i let u take it smh

[sleek laurel]

I am going to retreat because it is 2 AM

Gl chat

And gn

[obsidian wadi]

😭 oh alrighty thanks I’ll prob run some rounds in showdown with the updated teras to see how well it runs

[broken shuttle]

also i don’t think you want max/max kyogre or tornadus

[obsidian wadi]

Gn

[broken shuttle]

kyogre really needs the extra bulk

and torn needs to actually be able to live hits consistently

[obsidian wadi]

so re flesh out the stats to put more in bulk for both?

[broken shuttle]

@jovial creek can you pull & send the kyo and torn spreads

im on mobile

[obsidian wadi]

Yeah hold on

[jovial creek]

Tornadus @ Covert Cloak
Level: 50
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 4 SpA / 44 SpD / 4 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Dark
Modest Nature

• Bleakwind Storm
• Rain Dance
• Tailwind
• Taunt

Just take evs

Kyogre @ Mystic Water
Level: 50
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 156 SpA / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Grass
Modest Nature

• Water Spout
• Origin Pulse
• Ice Beam
• Protect

[obsidian wadi]

alrighty mighty appreciated

[jovial creek]

Same deal

[broken shuttle]

ty goat

[obsidian wadi]

tysm!

[jovial creek]

Np

That's what we are here for

[clever imp]

im back again so I changed smeargle to lando I is there anything else I need to change? https://pokepast.es/208ae4bf9f1ff097

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

kyo evs are a little off & lando spread isn't right

Kyogre @ Mystic Water
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 116 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 52 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Origin Pulse
• Water Spout
• Protect
• Ice Beam

Landorus @ Life Orb
Level: 50
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 132 HP / 4 Def / 116 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Poison
Modest Nature

• Earth Power
• Sludge Bomb
• Sandsear Storm
• Protect

good other than that

[clever imp]

thanks!

[gloomy birch]

I wouldn't use 252 speed but i guess it works

[broken shuttle]

🤷‍♂️

[warped citrus]

Could someone help me with this team it's a koraidon team https://pokepast.es/803b1f4bbec1ece8

[broken shuttle]

i like the basic core of koraidon/fm/amoonguss, but i don't really think the rest of the team is that great

you really only need one of incin or chi-yu

and solgaleo is just not good

to start with changes to the main core:

1. make koraidon max speed and max attack
2. make amoonguss bold with 236 hp, 236 defense, 36 spd and a relaxed nature
3. drop mystical fire for icy wind on flutter mane

[warped citrus]

I just wanted a support legendary (i know it wasn't the best choice but i love solgaleo

[broken shuttle]

lunala would do that much better here

[warped citrus]

I still don't see what it will do instead

[broken shuttle]

lunala is a lot bulkier with a much better typing and can give you a trick room mode

solgaleo has big time move competition & is pretty weak even with a boosting item + its typing is bad into the metagame

[warped citrus]

Do i really need trick room my team is mostly fast (not including incin and am

[warped citrus]

That's a respectable argument

[broken shuttle]

not necessarily, but it means you can add mons like ursaluna-h that function well in trick room and make your team even more threatening

https://pokepast.es/ec52d5b58784b860 for example, teams like this from the milwaukee regional

https://pokepast.es/f7156dc5c0bc4ec2 or this

[warped citrus]

Ya but my other team wont have a good time except if i bring incin or amoonges or sometimes both and that would leave me with only one out of trickroom pokemon to bring

[warped citrus]

👍

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/d06b2b946b5e48c3

this is a good core to start with

i made some light ev edits & moveset changes

it should probably be knock>tect incin

[warped citrus]

Ok thanks

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/518d8b5f48926915
How's this team

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ripe turret]

arch probably wants flash cannon and dragon pulse instead of draco and steel beam

especially because you're beat up stamina, you want more consistent damage options

I would say that stamina arch isn't very good in this reg but if you want to use it then start with that

kyogre definitely wants ice beam over thunder to hit grass types

either decide on eforce or meteor beam for lunala, imo you want wide guard

oh and kyogre should be tera grass

[ripe turret]

you should reaaaaaally add a tornadus somewhere

helps with rain and tailwind

[jovial creek]

I wouldn't run arch

The power level is too high

Fez is also not good

[lavish nexus]

Run skill swap indeedee

You could also fit an urshifu on there, nice mon to have on its own and even more with rain

[wispy night]

https://pokepast.es/1f86ddac4964d84f is this good or do i need to make some changes, i feel like kyogre could have better item but dont know what

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[lunar wedge]

OMAG BIRD!!'

Anyway https://pokepast.es/7004d99012ec5101

[sleek laurel]

Mystic Water + some bulk investment

Also run Earth Power over Psychic on Landorus

Rest looks fine

[sleek laurel]

This is very important because not only is Earth Power perfectly accurate outside of rain, it’s also not blocked by Wide Guard and it provides a surefire way to OHKO non-Terastallized Miraidon

Sandsear Storm oftentimes fails to OHKO because it’s a spread attack and therefore weaker than Earth Power

[warped citrus]

What does anyone think about this team https://pokepast.es/4e18529ac6a25700 it's a koraidon team

[warped citrus]

Does it have maybe to much support?

And also are the evs good

[lunar wedge]

Cresselia definitely feels a bit too passive

[warped citrus]

?

[warped citrus]

Hm maybe

But it's a support pokemon?

Or mostly used at a support pokemon

[warped citrus]

Also should i change to a attacker legendary because the team has alot of support?

[warped citrus]

??

[sleek laurel]

Don’t like cress here much, especially not with this set

[warped citrus]

A what's cress?

[sleek laurel]

Also Koraidon + Zamazenta-C can work but it’s kinda meh, and if you want the Wide Guard support on a Koraidon team, Koraidon + Lunala is just far better

Cresselia

[warped citrus]

👍

[sleek laurel]

I would do Lunala > Zamazenta and Indeedee-F over Cresselia

[warped citrus]

Interesting

[sleek laurel]

Expanding Force on Lunala is an option with Indeedee-F but not mandatory

And as for EVs, lemme check

Yes they look fine except for the two mons were changing anyway lol

[sleek laurel]

Do you have a Lunala or an Indeedee-F EV spread?

[warped citrus]

No

Also https://pokepast.es/1e2d01bc23cd891a
This team i have been working on for a long time if anyone has the time to see if it has problems it would be much appreciated

[lunar wedge]

Ignored

[ripe turret]

I got you

[broken shuttle]

@lunar wedge

nevermind

i can’t read

[sleek laurel]

LOL

[lunar wedge]

[broken shuttle]

mystic water>lorb kyo, also drop thunder for origin pulse/hydro pump

then go lorb lando & swap to sludge bomb lando

over grass knot

[broken shuttle]

you can also consider AV kyogre

[sleek laurel]

You mean

Ep > knot and sludge bomb > sludge wave?

[broken shuttle]

yes

[sleek laurel]

Figured

[broken shuttle]

thank you i didn’t look close enough

[sleek laurel]

Lol nw

[broken shuttle]

i would go sash or scarf urshifu-r over basculegion and amoonguss>archaludon

i don’t think either basuclegion or arch are great right now & amoonguss gives you a good resistence into opposing urshifu

i would also drop whimsicott for covert cloak torn w. rain dance for the koraidon matchup

[sleek laurel]

I was gonna mention torn yea

Too slow

[sleek laurel]

Also

None of your Pokémon except your restricteds

Have their Tera Types set

Landorus-I usually goes either Poison or Water

Post changes: Torn is usually Dark, Urshifu-R is usually Water (if Scarf) or Water/Stellar (if Sash), Amoonguss is uhhhh

Amoonguss has a variety of viable Tera Types

[lunar wedge]

... no... I wanted arch ro be steel tera to deal with fairy miraidon, ground lando to get more damage on sand tornado thingys and basculegion didn't need more on last respects

[sleek laurel]

I’m not sure what Arch and Basc ran in Reg H tbh

But the few times I’ve seen it, it was defensive Teras on both

[broken shuttle]

basc and arch are not good in general

[sleek laurel]

Basc usually ran Grass I think

Either way

Yes

[broken shuttle]

they don’t rly fit on the team at all

[sleek laurel]

They’re not good in Reg I

or G but anyway

[broken shuttle]

sometimes offensive twater act but it’s irrelevant

[sleek laurel]

Ye

[sleek laurel]

Basc and Arch are the perfect Pokémon to use if you wanna troll others by saying they’re good

(They’re not)

[ripe turret]

I said this and then forgot to send my message lmao

I had it all typed out too lol

[old kindle]

wanted to get some thoughts on this team
https://pokepast.es/13a17e09c15b745c
im still a little confused on things like how i wanna ev my miraidon, and if i wanna lower the speed on my kyogre to give it more of an offensive presence in trick room, im also considering swapping out calm mind for thunder so i can start slinging electric terrain 100% accuracy thunders
playing this team on the ladder i also feel like i dont bring ursh and ursa nearly as much as i should and im not sure which situations i should be bringing them

i feel like 200 speed miraidon should be fast enough but i feel like most people are opting for max speed miraidons

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jovial creek]

Isn't this just the Milwaukee team with kyogre>lunala

[old kindle]

yes

lol

[jovial creek]

I think you need lunala there

[old kindle]

i figured it could do sorta well with kyogre

since earlier i did try to make a kyogre mirai pre milwaukee

but i ended up on using my swordfish team there

and figured the milwaukee team would be a good starting point to see if i enjoy it with miraidon

also random question but why do i see more 252 hp 124 def and 132 spdef incins running around

rather than 252 156 and 100?

[jovial creek]

Kyogre miraidon could work

But not there idt

[old kindle]

yeah ive been realizing that sort of

since urshifu and ursa i feel like every time i bring them

it doesnt really end out that well

hence why i wanted some thoughts and stuff lol

but i think the core of mirai kyogre grimm and incin can do pretty well since thats done me quite well

just need to figure out what to fill the last 2 slots with

[jovial creek]

You could go scarf urshifu

And then maybe tornados?

[old kindle]

oh

standard kyogre picks

sure i could try that

im probs just gonna need to learn when to bring ursh and when to bring torn over grimm for which prankster mon/if i need one lol

putting thunder on my kyogre for the electric terrain boost seems funny but i doubt itd do much, especially when i already have an electric damage mon in the form of miraidon

[broken shuttle]

you could go av ogre and specs mirai

[old kindle]

honestly ive never really liked choice items

[broken shuttle]

w. like torn>ursa and scarf ursh

[old kindle]

i mean the only choice set ive liked so far was scarf kyogre lol

[broken shuttle]

specs mirai is just rly consistent

[old kindle]

ill give it a try

[broken shuttle]

& scarf ursh is like

[old kindle]

so i swap back to the standard worlds miraidon dazzling gleam and such?

[broken shuttle]

probably

it’s worth testing

[old kindle]

i doubt ill outspeed most miraidons now, so i think modest should be safe

maybe ill try a few games with modest and a few with timid to get a feel for what speeds most miraidons run

unless i wanna drop my 12 spdef evs and 4 defense and just put them into speed

to make sure i outrun most worlds miraidons even when theyre running timid

[broken shuttle]

yeah just depends on what u think matters more in testing

[old kindle]

i mean i like to get the first volt switch off since 9/10 times they tera into dazzling or just put a draco into that slot

[primal osprey]

https://pokepast.es/93b8c510b44b041b
did I cook?

what can i change?

[ripe turret]

everything was good up to the last mon lol

just don’t use dusk mane

maybe lunala?

with the meteor beam set

also offensive rilla is a lil questionable

you could run booster or magnet on bolt and go av rilla

[jovial creek]

Change Dusk mane

And probably rilla

If you want tr

Id go lunala

Then you could go maybe flutter over rilla

For speed control with koraidon

[primal osprey]

improvements noted...I really appreciate the help, thank you

[scarlet spindle]

where can i show off some national dex doubles stuff

[broken shuttle]

look at the rate-my-team section like you're in rn & find either DOU or natdex non-ou

[scarlet spindle]

found it dw

[warped citrus]

Also https://pokepast.es/1e2d01bc23cd891a
This team i have been working on for a long time if anyone has the time to see if it has problems it would be much appreciated

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[warped citrus]

And i am also struggling with both carlyx

[distant trellis]

https://pokepast.es/b6cd656f04294d92 how we feelin bout this one

[sonic wind]

Some of the sets are really awkward, most Reg G sets on Smogdex should be useful.
Palkia is also unfortunately just bad, Zacian and Calyrex Shadow are who you want to use alongside Kyogre

[sonic wind]

I think Tera Grass Caly just makes you too ass into Korai even with Rain Dance Torn

[distant trellis]

Korai flutter was the big issue yeah

[sonic wind]

Also remember to make Pao 4 Def and Shifu Adamant!

I think Caly with another Tera makes the match up way more bearable

[distant trellis]

Tera grass caly is funny into Mirai because it shrugs electro drift but I think I have enough anti Mirai tech here

I was considering making pao ice spinner asw but that disrupts my own terrain

Would fairy work or

[wispy night]

https://pokepast.es/386366006d4d62a1 i feel like its only the evs that arent perfect here

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jovial creek]

Id run way more speed on zacian

You should outspeed the base 205s

[sleek laurel]

Team looks fine other than EVs yes

Base 205s 🧌

[jovial creek]

Kyogre should probably have more bulk

[sleek laurel]

Anyway

Yea

Rilla is fine I think, Kyogre wants bulk, Landorus idk if that hits any benchmark

[jovial creek]

Kyogre @ Mystic Water
Level: 50
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 156 SpA / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Grass
Modest Nature

• Water Spout
• Origin Pulse
• Ice Beam
• Protect

Kyogre

Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 156 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Behemoth Blade
• Play Rough
• Swords Dance
• Protect

Zacian

Go tera fairy too btw

Idr your rilla spread

But use this

Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Level: 50
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 244 HP / 116 Atk / 20 Def / 76 SpD / 52 Spe
Tera Type: Fire
Adamant Nature

• Wood Hammer
• Grassy Glide
• U-turn
• Fake Out

[jovial creek]

What's the idea behind single strike

[tribal void]

https://pokepast.es/683ac0c8f5950c1c im really liking screens mirai rn but i don't like using mirai lunala. I have calyI as the second restricted as ive been cycling through a bunch of physical restricteds and i think that calyI does the best. The last slot being urshifu is something that I don't like but i have no idea what to replace it with. Is there any way of changing the team to become any better without having to change the sinistcha + miraidon + grimmsnarl idea that i have originally? I'm also open to changing sinistcha or substituting it out but would rather keep it as i find it pretty nice to use

[sonic wind]

First off I think you should know that there's a Top 8 Milwaukee team especially similar to this if you want to try that out.

I think Volcarona performs better than Incin here, preferably a Quiver Dance set. Rest of your team is notably Brute Bonnet weak and having screens + redirection already gives you immense support. I don't think Life Dew is a great move since it heals so little, you'd probably benefit more from Shadow Ball or Strength Sap imo.

Other than that this seems fine

[sleek laurel]

Oh I missed that

I assume it’s like

Water overlap

Some Kyogre run UrshS with that in mind

[tribal void]

thanks for the advice. If i use volc over incin would i run sitrus on it then replace sitrus on sinistcha with rocky helmet or are there some good replacements for sitrus on volc?

[sonic wind]

thats good yeah

[spark salmon]

Thoughts on my Reg I team?

https://pokepast.es/727b841c4ecf65d0

[sleek laurel]

• Not sure if Gholdengo is viable in Reg I, it was nice in G but I haven’t seen much of it in I; even if it is, definitely not this set (if you end up keeping it, I think a Nasty Plot set is better here, but I wouldn’t keep it)

• That said, I feel like something such as Amoonguss is just considerably better, especially since you have zero counterplay to Trick Room

• Flame Charge > Collision Course on Koraidon, the Speed boost is crucial for Tailwind teams or Calyrex-S and Collision Course is redundant with Close Combat and outclassed by the latter in LO sets

• Grimmsnarl values Tera Ghost for a Fake Out immunity way more than Tera Ground

• Clefairy is not good on these structures at all, I would replace it with Focus Sash Flutter Mane for some form of Speed control that doesn’t rely on quickly making use of it

• Also some EV spreads need tweaking

I’ll get some EV spreads to you later down the line

[sleek laurel]

Actually in hindsight you have Ogerpon-C, so maybe Amoonguss isn’t necessary

You can do Raging Bolt or even keep the Gholdengo if it’s working out but even if you do, definitely change to a standard set (NP Tera Water for sure)

That would actually work out fine enough because that helps against Calyrex-I

Which is tough for this team

[spark salmon]

I do plan on keeping Gholdengo tbh

I don't know why, but I just wanna keep it

[sleek laurel]

That’s fine

The more I think of it, it makes more sense in hindsight

But go for the standard NP Leftovers set with Tera Water then

[spark salmon]

Alright

[sleek laurel]

Another thing to consider if you think you’re not getting much value out of Grimmsnarl is Raging Bolt, which also helps vs Kyogre should you lose the weather war

Assault Vest in particular looks nice here

[spark salmon]

I just made this team a few hours ago, so I haven't tested each member yet

[sleek laurel]

That’s fair

[spark salmon]

I did however do a test match with Ho-Oh, Koraidon, Clefairy, and Ogerpon(I didn't use Gholdengo or Grimm)

And I only lost Koraidon and Clefairy

[sleek laurel]

Fair

Yea I think NP Gholdengo > this Ghold, Sash Flutter > Clef, and AV Bolt > Grimm is optimal

Can also help with EVs if you need

Also Korai move

Oger-C is fine and Ho-Oh is fine bar the EV spreads

[spark salmon]

So out of the moves I have, which one do I replace for Nasty Plot?

For Gholdengo

https://pokepast.es/c2165bc3bf864a18

So something like this?

[sleek laurel]

Lemme see

[sleek laurel]

Protect > Dazzling Gleam on Ghold, and lemme get you the spreads

Sorry, I was kinda busy xd

[hearty tide]

https://pokepast.es/108ec5f1d9a91277

good 6th mon for this team?

[spark salmon]

👍

[sleek laurel]

For spreads:

• Ho-Oh: 252 HP / 76+ Atk / 164 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe

• Gholdengo: 252 HP / 4 Def / 132+ SpA / 12 SpD / 108 Spe

• Raging Bolt: 196 HP / 132 Def / 92+ SpA / 52 SpD / 36 Spe

Though I think your Bolt spread might work too, it feels a lil too low SpA but it might work

[spark salmon]

What does the + mean, if I may ask?

[sleek laurel]

Positive nature

[spark salmon]

Ah

My phone died, so I didn't know you replied back

https://pokepast.es/b040ecd5dd4b046a

How does it look now?

[sleek laurel]

Forgot the Protect on Ghold, other than that pretty nice

[spark salmon]

Ah, right

It's finally done...I think

https://pokepast.es/aefc786748dc82d8

[sleek laurel]

Yep!

[hearty tide]

^^bumping

[ripe turret]

you're only supposed to send complete teams here

so you could just add a random sixth mon

[jovial creek]

Ask in compgen next time

Probably rillaboom?

I could see tw mirai being a problem

[hearty tide]

yeah i was thinking rillaboom or bolt, wdyt

[jovial creek]

Rillaboom then

[wispy night]

it hits a lot of restricteds for super effective

[sonic wind]

I think you want to have more team specific choices

Like starting with Zac Ogre Torn you go "what do I lose to?" "What do I need to check" "what's my match up vs the best cores right now"

[sonic wind]

This is the reason I think rating teams of 5 is fine

The person probably has a rough idea of what can fit in or throw in a solid Pokemon that'll just get replaced anyway, I only really apply the rule to teams of 4 and less where atp it's just an idea that isn't fleshed out

[sleek laurel]

This lmao

[ripe turret]

ok makes sense

I thought about that but I wasn’t sure how strict the rules were lol

[sleek laurel]

Some are stricter than others

This is the kind of rule that even if it’s not allowed per se, if the raters are fine with it it’s not that big of a deal

Compared to asking for help with cobblemon (that’s a bigger deal)

LOL

[sleek laurel]

Also mostly because it only exists to prevent the second case listed here from happening

The first case isn’t that bad, in that if it was the whole reason for the rule, there wouldn’t be the rule lol

[vivid shard]

Is umbreon any good in this regulation?

[potent lion]

https://pokepast.es/dbd50595bbaef3dd
I want to try adding comfey, can i do that without hindering my team to terribly? I initially thought to replace whim since I have grimm for speed control and comfey can learn Taunt as a suedo amongus counter. But if I can add comfey, should I replace leftovers on Pago with cloak?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ripe turret]

no

[vivid shard]

Why so?

[ripe turret]

the general power level is just too high for it to be usable imo

I feel like it was more of a reg h/g thing

[jovial creek]

I don't like this duo

Kyogre can work but terapagos removes its weather

[potent lion]

I've been successful with it

I usually use kyogre to clean up since it's scarfed and only terastalize when it's optimal

I got like 11 game win streak with it

[potent lion]

Plus Pago doesn't permanently shut of weather, I can just terastalize Pago and then send in kyogre, it's not hard to pilot

[jovial creek]

its still pretty restrictive for how you play

[potent lion]

Not really

[jovial creek]

normally I'd try to make sure your restricteds can basically do what they want while co-existing

[potent lion]

Pago + terrain/weather setter is a good duo

[potent lion]

That's just one of the possible strategies, not all restricted duos have to be used simultaneously

[jovial creek]

I feel like you'd rather have some other mon to clean up no?

it feels like wasted potential

[potent lion]

Kyogre helps against koraidon

If my only way of controlling weather is Pago then it's not as easy to control weather

Sure I could have torn but then I miss out on other support

I just like scarf kyogre cause it's consistent, csr is too easily counterable and not as good for late game clean up

[potent lion]

That's also just how Pago plays, you don't send Pago + restricted partner out at the same time

[jovial creek]

you can with csr

which I also think is just the best pagos partner in general

[potent lion]

I've had good success with it so I like it

I just wanted to see if comfey could fit, the restricted duo isn't the problem

[jovial creek]

I don't think comfey fits

both in general and there

[potent lion]

?

[jovial creek]

I don't think it's good on any team

Much less that one

[potent lion]

Comfey and Pago has seen play before bruh

Comfey is only ever used with pago

It's not like tier 1 team but it's not an anomaly pick either

[jovial creek]

In reg G

And it wasn't very good then either

[potent lion]

I can agree with that at least

[small elbow]

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/teambuilder trying to make riolu work

[burnt surge]

You've linked to the builder

Not to a team

[ornate grove]

https://pokepast.es/bb9ebd49c74e046d I'm new to VGC, started 2 weeks ago, 2nd doubles team I've ever built, opinions/improvements?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[warped citrus]

https://pokepast.es/1344b4f07b990b02 opinions?

[ornate grove]

What do you do against fake out/ priority

I like the baton pass on calyrex tho

[sleek laurel]

Extremely good for a 2nd team ever - lemme get to cram school and I’ll rate with accuracy when I’m there

But this is far better than I was expecting for “second team ever”

Like FAR better

[warped citrus]

Protect

[warped citrus]

But i am unable to use it since lunla is such a tank

[sleek laurel]

Ok lemme do this now

[sleek laurel]

This looks great except for the Kyogre set and some EV spreads: Kyogre wants to be bulkier and wants Origin Pulse as a second Water-type STAB move, usually over Thunder (on this team in specific you can consider it over Ice Beam because you have a Chien-Pao, I wouldn’t do it myself but it’s viable)

Even if you do keep Thunder, Tera Electric has to turn into Tera Grass - Kyogre doesn’t need an offensive Tera and Grass does everything Electric does while giving you an immunity to Spore and keeping your Water-type resistance while giving you a new Grass-type resistance, which is, respectively, particularly relevant for Ice Beam and Thunder variants.

You can also consider Tera Ghost on Chien-Pao to ignore Fake Out more reliably, but you do have Indeedee so it’s not mandatory ig

You can also consider switching Urshifu’s Ice Spinner but I honestly don’t know what you would run instead (Aqua Jet ig but on Scarf + Psychic Terrain it’s incredibly meh) and Ice Spinner gives you Rillaboom counterplay so honestly you can keep it if it works

I can get you EV spreads if you need me to, because these are the main standout points of your team, the EV spreads aren’t specialized

[sleek laurel]

Same thing I said about EV spreads and Kyogre’s Tera Type

Also, run Mystic Water Kyogre > Clear Amulet (ClAm on a Special attacker is fake), Tera Grass > Tera Electric and this one definitely wants Ice Beam over Thunder because you have no Ice-type coverage

Torn goes Tera Dark, Incin goes Safety Goggles and you’re also missing 4 EVs but that could be intentional since they only do anything if put in Speed which idk if you want

When either of you read this, ping me for EV spreads so I don’t swarm the chat early 👍

[warped citrus]

Thanks

[warped citrus]

Incin already has trea grass

[warped citrus]

Torn i understand

[warped citrus]

Thunder is the only thing that is super effective vs water even if I have a ice move i won't be able to touch water types, mystical water i understand, trea grass i don't, and also if you have a suggestion or a opinion about CSR item it would be much appreciated because i don't know what to use

[sleek laurel]

Oh

Ignore that one then

What I would do btw is run Rocky Helmet on Amoonguss and Sitrus Berry on Incineroar

[warped citrus]

Interesting

[sleek laurel]

Helmet Amoonguss is critical because you’re setting up the Rain which also helps opposing Urshifu-R

And if you can Rage Powder away a Surging Strikes, Rocky Helmet activates for every hit

[warped citrus]

Respectable agreement i agree

[warped citrus]

Noted

[sleek laurel]

For the rest of your questions:

[sleek laurel]

Tera Grass: it’s objectively better as a defensive typing and Kyogre doesn’t need STAB on Thunder, especially since keeping a Water-type resistance vs opposing Waters is more important than STAB Thundering them almost every time

The amount of times STAB Thunder for the OHKO will come in handy is way smaller than the amount of times in which Tera Grass will come in handy

And that is actually more relevant if you opt to run Thunder

[warped citrus]

Hm

[sleek laurel]

Because you at least resist Grass-type attacks and can win the “1v1 of not very effective moves”

With STAB- and Rain-boosted Water-type moves

And as for the Calyrex-S item

[warped citrus]

O ok thx

[sleek laurel]

Focus Sash on Calyrex-S and Covert Cloak on Tornadus

Would be optimal, but if you can manage your positioning with Focus Sash Tornadus

Then Spell Tag Calyrex-S is fine

But Covert Cloak just gives much better insurance if you misposition vs Fake Out

And the reward of Focus Sash is minor on Tornadus and it’s extremely relevant on Calyrex-S

[warped citrus]

I see i will think about it

Ok

[sleek laurel]

Other than that it’s just the EV spreads, I can list them here if you want

[warped citrus]

Last question (very sorry for all the questions) is there a way i can deal with or change something to deal with lunla

[warped citrus]

It would be much appreciated

If you could

[sleek laurel]

I see

You can consider Hydro Pump > Origin Pulse on Kyogre for that reason

You can also try to switch something out for Urshifu-R

Presumably the Landorus

But liiiiike

There’s more to beating Lunala than just getting past Wide Guard

Actually wait

Nvm not Urshifu, that would compound your weakness to it

I don’t like this Landorus honestly, you have too much SpA presence and zero PhysAtk presence

You can maybe do Urshifu-Dark

[warped citrus]

Interesting but i think it would be hard for landorus since i rely on him alot but i could try to see if it's better

[warped citrus]

That's true

[sleek laurel]

I actually like Urshifu-Dark here especially if you struggle with Lunala

[warped citrus]

Hm

[sleek laurel]

Then

If you do that

Run Focus Sash on it, Covert Cloak on Tornadus, and Life Orb on Calyrex

[warped citrus]

I might try that and see the results

[sleek laurel]

Life Orb Calyrex is the optimal item and the only reason it wasn’t being used yet was because of the Landorus

For Calyrex-S ofc

[warped citrus]

Understood

[sleek laurel]

Calyrex-I do not use Life Orb 👍

[sleek laurel]

Gotcha goat

Lemme get the EV spreads now

I can send a paste here if you want too

[warped citrus]

That would be very very very very appreciated

Thanks so much for your help

[sleek laurel]

Give me 5 minutes and I got you

And no problem, that’s what us raters are here for 👍

[warped citrus]

Thanks👍

[sleek laurel]

https://pokepast.es/6d2df7724ff371ba

Tornadus outspeeds all base 90s and survives Caly-S Astral, rest is Defense

Urshifu is Sash so Max/Max is optimal

Incin is the SmogDex spread

Amoonguss survived Calyrex-I Glacial Lance and Adamant Chien-Pao Icicle Crash, 27 IVs on Speed is extremely important because then you’re slower than Calyrex-I under Trick Room and can put it straight to bed (lol)

Calyrex-S is SmogDex spread, Kyogre is SmogDex spread and particularly good because it underspeeds Lunala under Trick Room while Calyrex-S outspeeds it outside of Trick Room, putting it on a Wide Guard pin, as in that it has to Wide Guard to survive

I kept the Baton Pass on the Calyrex-S because that’s what seemingly was the uniqueness of the team, but if you think it’s not good or want to change it, go Psychic instead

Which mind you, is better

But if you want to keep Baton Pass as part of the uniqueness then that’s workable with

Just do know you’re only gonna click if after a Grim Neigh boost because fitting Nasty Plot is impossible

[warped citrus]

Ya

[sleek laurel]

Good luck with the team goat

[warped citrus]

Thanks your the true goat

Have a awesome day

[warped citrus]

Thanks very much for the help thanks true goat

[sleek laurel]

No worries man

You too, sorry I vanished because a friend called me LOL

[warped citrus]

Na it's ok have a good day bye

[sleek laurel]

Cya

One last thing

Not for teambuilding but a playing tip

[warped citrus]

What is it

[sleek laurel]

Lunala still poses a major threat to this team if it undergoes Tera Fairy

The most important piece of the game to beat it is force it to Wide Guard, which is why it’s great that Calyrex-S and Kyogre both Speed-sandwich it

Ideally you wanna break the Shadow Shield and then use one Spread move and one single-target move

[warped citrus]

Yes but what should i do about the other pokemon if i am still unable to do damage

[sleek laurel]

Because if it doesn’t Wide Guard it dies, and if it Wide Guards it doesn’t do anything against the partner

[sleek laurel]

It’s a bit hard to resolve this on paper

After all the team isn’t invincible

[warped citrus]

Ya i just need to get lucky and have a one attack attacker as the other pokemon

[sleek laurel]

In a dream scenario, you have the Pokémon that’s currently faster than the Lunala use the Spread move, and the other one, attack Lunala’s partner

[warped citrus]

True i don't have the world champ difference after all

[sleek laurel]

Because then Lunala can’t do anything to protect it’s partner

And if it tries to attack then it gets outrun and explodes

[sleek laurel]

Facts…

Ofc the opponent will also like

[warped citrus]

Got it

[sleek laurel]

Do stuff to avoid this perfect scenario

[warped citrus]

👍

[sleek laurel]

But that’s how the game works, play your best lol

[warped citrus]

Thanks you to

[sleek laurel]

Cya man

[kindred burrow]

https://pokepast.es/ea8969825ff7f41c

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[kindred burrow]

What's wrong here, what can I change? Any input is valuable

[jovial creek]

No offense but this isn't very good

Cir palkia is pretty meh

Like

It could work

But that isn't the way

[kindred burrow]

Alright yeah

Is the room service too hard of a commit

[jovial creek]

Yeah

And i think you'd want to be a bit more balancey

[kindred burrow]

You think I should run origin?

[jovial creek]

Also both don't like Miraidon

[jovial creek]

Nah base works

Run it with ursaluna maybe

[kindred burrow]

Ahhhh

I like the idea of the core

I'm taking some inspo from Gen 8 caly ice teams

Also why does palkia have every weather move

[jovial creek]

I think this isn't as good of an idea as it seems

Because there was dmax then

You could look at reg G teams though

[kindred burrow]

True

So you think I should run ursaluna

Which one

[jovial creek]

Base

Bc you can eq with telepathy palkia

[kindred burrow]

So caly-ice gets absolutely fucked against sun teams (unsurprisingly) so my thought is bringing covert cloak mimikyu for the sole purpose of setting trick room turn 1

Mimikyu as a support mon is probably not great but idk

Disguise funy

[ripe turret]

cloak is redundant because you’re already a ghost

(just don’t run mimikyu but if you really really really want to start with that at least)

[sleek laurel]

Cloak is redundant yea, and Mimikyu isn’t it

Caly-I usually wants to undergo Tera vs Koraidon

And it’s actually a heavily Calyrex-I favored matchup

So long as Trick Room goes up

But you have to Tera the Calyrex

[ornate grove]

Hey! Tanks a lot for the advice, after typing the message I had thought Abt the team a bit more and tested it, and honestly clayrex seems a bit out of place for this team, it was incredibly fragile and I also wanted something to deal with spore more efficiently like u mentioned, I also thought about Tera electric, the stab boost isn't that incredible tbh, but it does help out every now and then, I thought Abt what could fit these 2 problems and made this. However I don't have ev spreads available to me and all of these are self made so if you could hook me up that would be nice, also I'm not sure what set to run on miraidon, first I had specs but it's a bit overkill and locking me into one move lost me games every now and then, I went av, I used snarl for a bit but many terapagos are running covert cloak and even some clear Amulett, cause of the last regional, so I think encore on whimsicott could help, and Tera fairy dazzling gleam still does respectable DMG, I'm not sure Abt the snarl change yet tho, might revert https://pokepast.es/9aac754e5ad49c92

Oh and the ursh should have ice punch not ice spinner

Forgot to change that

Cuz I don't wanna remove my own terrain

[sleek laurel]

I like this a lot, but one thing worthy of note

And this is counterintuitive, but it’s true

Especially with Miraidon on the team, Thunder on Kyogre actually becomes considerably worse

[ornate grove]

Oh?

[sleek laurel]

Because you have MORE than enough Electric-type offensive presence

And Specially offensive presence too

In the form of Miraidon alone

Point being, you don’t need Thunder, or even close, if you have an ENTIRE Miraidon to nuke everything that Thunder would hit

Lol

Whereas a second Water-type STAB that doesn’t decrease in damage like Water Spout is an extremely important click

[ornate grove]

Yeah true, should I maybe go hydro pump so I don't get walled as much by wide guard?

[sleek laurel]

This is good yes

If Wide Guard is a worry then Hydro Pump is a very noteworthy option

[ornate grove]

Yeah that sounds good, not sure if I should keep ice beam tho

Actually

[sleek laurel]

Ice Beam is good yes

Hits the Grass-types that worry both of your restricteds

Particularly Rillaboom

[ornate grove]

Yeah that's true, rillaboom, even koraido and miraidon with my tailwind up

Might be game deciding late game

Alr

[sleek laurel]

Yea

[ornate grove]

I'll go Tera grass and hydro pump

I just hope I don't miss too many of em lmao

[sleek laurel]

Lmao we’ve all been there

You usually want to click Spout but the backup of Hydro Pump is great to have

[ornate grove]

Yeah definitely, talking about moves that can miss, thunder on miraidon seems cool

Rain is almost always active and sun setters are immune or resist electric anyways so

what do you think?

[sleek laurel]

Ehhhhh

Theoretically can work to OHKO almost every variant of Calyrex-I but it’s too forced imo

I don’t endorse it but I know some good players that do

[ornate grove]

I wanna give it a try and see how it does tbh

Could perform pretty well, probs even better with the snarl Tera electric version?

I'm not sure

Might be too much electricity

[inner basin]

https://pokepast.es/1d433572562bb8a5

so original, i was use jumpluff for tailwind and sleep and rage powder but i change it for tornadus since i had more consistent and prankster sunny fay really helps against rain teams. Im still debating between brute bonnet and incineroar.

The two weakness i have is that spore from amoonguss and i don’t have anything against a mirror sun team

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

i think i would go focus sash>specs on flutter mane

& covert cloak>booster energy on brute

you already have sun so booster is kind of redundant, & sash is generally a lot more consistent into the mirror

incin could work over bonnet here fs also

[inner basin]

Oh, now that I remember

Im also not sure how to spec my koraidon to be more bulky and still be fast under tailwind

[broken shuttle]

Koraidon @ Clear Amulet
Level: 50
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Tera Type: Fire
Adamant Nature

• Collision Course
• Flare Blitz
• Flame Charge
• Protect

this is a pretty solid spread

[inner basin]

Alright

Tysm

[ornate grove]

Btw I gave Tera grass hydro pump and thunder snarl a try but I dropped from 1460 to 1372 😭 , decided to go back to dazzling gleam and thunder, it makes me immune to prankster t wave grimmsnarl which is everywhere rn. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regi-2364838396-ou7r7qjs4hhltc2px71xk0giupd9lcupw first game on thunder Kyogre and he clutches, for most teams triple water stab or double water is probs better, but it just feels smooth to have thunder on this guy for this team

Honestly he was bad and turn one Tera was definitely not my best choice but u get the idea

Plus it fishes out a para every now and then

[ornate grove]

Yeah like Scorsese said focus sash over specs, maybe a more calced ev spread for bonett, Rocky helmet/lefties would go well on bonnet too, also whimsicott over torn, so you can't be taunted as easily by other tailwind teams, u can still run the same set, Tera and item, just replace bleakwind with moonblast and go max HP max speed timid

[inner basin]

I haven’t been able to find a brute bonnet stat spread

Im being gatekeeped lol

[jovial creek]

I gotchu

Brute Bonnet @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 164 Def / 52 SpD / 44 Spe
Impish Nature

• Seed Bomb
• Spore
• Rage Powder
• Protect

[inner basin]

Thanks

[small elbow]

https://pokepast.es/d0334b9228d376eb trying to make my fav pokemon work in a team

[ornate grove]

Lmao me too, I'm new to VGC and finding good spreads is rly difficult

[ornate grove]

Goat

[jovial creek]

I think

You want clam bird

And sacred fire over Flare blitz

Also those evs aren't very good

https://pokepast.es/fe119972f5a65d3b

Try this @small elbow

Maybe another move on rioulu

[ornate grove]

https://pokepast.es/ca765b520b4f48d0

[ornate grove]

Why were u faster than me!! 😡

Doesn't koraidon nerf urshifu btw?

[jovial creek]

True

Outposition or sometjing

You are using riolu, team won't be perfect

[potent lion]

Should I keep ss or switch to rs? https://pokepast.es/8806c21e4473bc13

Also, with how popular av miraidon is getting, should I switch to cloak on pago?

[ornate grove]

https://pokepast.es/0d71d88c82f771f5 this should be fun, Bigfoot had a great idea with koraidon ngl

[jovial creek]

You could

Or

You could spam csr in that mu

And clean up with pagos

[potent lion]

Is koraidon just a bad mu with my 6?

[jovial creek]

It's an outplay mu

Gonna be a losing mu

You have to play better

[potent lion]

You think ss or rs is better for this team?

[broken shuttle]

i don't think urshifu is rly necessary on pagos rn

i would go amoonguss>urshifu here

[potent lion]

Should I drop safety for helmet then on incin?

[broken shuttle]

no

go helmet amoonguss

[potent lion]

I'm assuming puff, spore, protect and rage

[broken shuttle]

https://pokepast.es/849f816f36410287

basically

what you can do with amoonguss is use it to force a lot of damage down onto koraidon to put it in range of CSR or pagos

& it also allows you to spam rage powder + starstorm/astral into the koraidon mu

see here

[potent lion]

Is that why this on is more physically bulky

[broken shuttle]

kind of

it's also more physically bulky to take a CIR glacial or pao icicle crash

[broken shuttle]

but realistically it will die to korai anyways, you're rly only trading if for chip on korai

which is super worth it

it's a hard to position mu but playable if done right

[potent lion]

Feels like I'm missing out on damage if besides my restricteds is support

[broken shuttle]

not really you just need to use your restricteds to force damage

[jovial creek]

yeah ok bro

just steal teams

[small elbow]

i just made this play (golden boy is my riolu btw)

[vivid shard]

Is it possible to make it work at all u think?

[broken shuttle]

maybe?

it would need a very specific team to fit on

and even then i think it's too passive unfortunately

[vivid shard]

Oof 😭

Ill make it work trust

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/77a8eaa32f43c999

Works fairly well for just using showdown revommended evs

[drifting onyx]

Hey @dense nebula, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9bss team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1060690402711183370 instead.

[dense nebula]

Oops

Wrong format

https://pokepast.es/67ffda3eb9a8cc3c

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jovial creek]

Are you trying to use specs pagos?

That team looks kinda all over the place

Pagos and zama are good, but not together

Comfey isn't very good, definitely not with a calm mind set

Palafin also just isn't very good

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/678c2de8b506d21e
How's this team

[dense nebula]

Yes

What restricted would you use with pagos?

[clever imp]

hey I'm back again I'd just edited the team again I need some feedback I have been doing amazing with this team on showdown it got me at 1130-1160 so feel free to tell me https://pokepast.es/ddfc084978445c89

[jovial creek]

Shadow rider

[jovial creek]

Id go tera water or ghost ursh

How's the miraidon mu been?

[clever imp]

been good

tera fairy play rough zacin okoed it so good

I'd also learned that play rough kill orge

[vivid shard]

https://pokepast.es/850daa4ca111858c any ideas for last pokemon, umbreon is actually helping me BTW

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[jovial creek]

Go AV hands

[vivid shard]

What's av

Ohh assault vest

[vivid shard]

Oke what about last pokemon

[jovial creek]

https://pokepast.es/d105009d51da0584

Try this

[vivid shard]

Thanks!

Anything i should know before trying it in a game?

Or is it jusy my same gameplan + giraffe

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/678c2de8b506d21e
https://pokepast.es/a9d495bcbf2c5802
Which team is better

[gloomy birch]

The First one

[jovial creek]

Don't run amoonguss with miraidon

You block your own spore

[steep mesa]

https://pokepast.es/5d2f9c7d14f9a74a

[broken shuttle]

i think if you’re gonna run lunala zacian you probably want tailwind

[broken shuttle]

honestly zacian looks weird to me here

it doesn’t eeally seems like it fits on the comp or helps w. any of the issues that lunala may have matchips wise

also just feels awkward

i would maybe test koraidon>zacian and flutter mane>urshifu

korai fm is a rly good offensive core that has way better synergy w. lunala

[steep mesa]

honestly it is awkward i just have no clue what restricted to put there, it was zama at one point

okay ill try it

do i js use the basic koraidon set w clear amulet?

[small elbow]

https://pokepast.es/07aabcefff305864 how would i optimize this team for reg I\

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

i would do life orb personally but clear amylet is fine

just test and see which you find u need mire

[steep mesa]

mkay ty

[broken shuttle]

ngl dawg you should probably start from scratch on that one

idt any mons on that team besides urshifu pao & peli are worth using in reg i

i would start with a restricted pair & build out from there rather than trying to convert an existing team

[dense nebula]

Nasty plot set or choice

[hearty tide]

https://pokepast.es/7737729302d4fd40

halp

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

lorb miraidon is def not the play herw

i would go fast specs

[hearty tide]

AV?

[broken shuttle]

bc you want to be able to outspeed and slam zama

you need to be max speed on urshifu

you don't outspeed calyrex-s without max speed

you could alternatively go focus sash here which i kind of like a little more

idt you need scarf bc you have a pagos & incin to shut down caly-s already

& definitely make pagos leftovers

electric seed is cute but you definitely need the recovery

also volt switch is a requirement on miraidon

https://pokepast.es/6be569bde4e5bcae

this is a lot better

@hearty tide ^

[dense nebula]

Any counter to shadow when paired with clefairy?

i qlways get stalled by it

Always*

[broken shuttle]

light screen + damage trade w. your restricteds

so you can do like

light screen whims + miraidon

target caly w. mirai volt into screen & bring in pagos

caly shouldn't rly be able to touch pagos

so u can just set up

[tribal void]

doesn't whims + mirai beat the damage trade off against calys clef anyways?

its something to keep in mind

[dense nebula]

Im probably not doing something right, clefairy can take 3 hits to kill

With specs miraidon*

[broken shuttle]

yes it does

but the pagos line is generally more consistent

[tribal void]

yeah

its just something to keep in mind

[broken shuttle]

it can but it doesn't rly matter cz you beat it w. pagos anyways

[dense nebula]

So lead miraidon+pagos

Got it

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/8bc86941021673e0

Thanks lucy, works great

Havent lost to sr clef yet

[broken shuttle]

would edit the incin spread & change out supercell -> low kick on hands

Incineroar @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Impish Nature

• Helping Hand
• Fake Out
• Knock Off
• Parting Shot

smth like this works

you can also run more speed

or taunt/wisp/flare blitz>hand

[dense nebula]

Thanks!

[smoky sandal]

https://pokepast.es/236220a32ec8a485
This is my monotype steel trickroom team, I know its not really vgc but its still a doubles team and I would love to get help with my team building!

Btw im playing with a weird format, I can use pokemon up to gen 9, but no terra types. I can use megas, so I was thinking of including mega mawile but I'm not sure what to replace for it.

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[broken shuttle]

!nolegends

[drifting onyx]

Please take a moment to review the rules of the competitive section: https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1373406929317269624

Do not ask for assistance with arbitrary rulesets or restrictions placed on teambuilding, we will not help with them in this server. The competitive section is only for formats hosted on the Smogon forums, such as VGC and OU.

Additionally, do not ask for assistance with fangames, Minecraft/Roblox mods, or other such titles. These games/mods have mechanics and available Pokémon which do not match those in the actual Pokémon games or Smogon's formats, and are often played with arbitrary rulesets.

[broken shuttle]

@smoky sandal ^

sorry gang

[smoky sandal]

Np gng

I asked in monotype and they directed me here 🥀💔

[warped citrus]

Does anyone know if indeedee-f can survive calyrex shadow astral b and if that's the case how much ivs do i need to put in s.def keep in mind it's holding a psychic seed

[marsh frigate]

it’s immune to astral 🥀

[warped citrus]

O

I am a idiot

What about blood moon u

[marsh frigate]

also immune bro 🥀

[warped citrus]

Normal immune to normal?

[marsh frigate]

normal immune to ghost

and vice versa

[warped citrus]

Blood moon is a normal type move

[marsh frigate]

oh i thought you meant was the pokemon immune to astral

[warped citrus]

Ya then i asked about it

[marsh frigate]

yeah idk about the move

you could probably play around in the dmg calc to see

[warped citrus]

Here but thanks anyways

[warped citrus]

What's dmg Calc?

[marsh frigate]

yeah by blood moon u i thought you meant the pokemon not the move

[warped citrus]

Damage calculater?

[warped citrus]

👍

[marsh frigate]

https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com

[warped citrus]

Thanks have a great day

[marsh frigate]

you too

[random wagon]

for vgc i would use a different damage calc, being nerd of now (seen here: https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ )

[broken shuttle]

i still use ps calc😭

[tranquil nova]

Any tips? dont feel like im bring bonnet and i maybe another tr setter wouldnt be bad https://pokepast.es/84f5f402fd74e140

[broken shuttle]

idt you need both bonnet and umby

they feel like they do similar things here

would also do sash fm w. icy wind

i think

i would test ogerpon-c or h over brute

should work better

probably c

https://pokepast.es/5cbea00d682e85b0

can adjust umby item probs

but this looks good

[tranquil nova]

thanks!

[proper wasp]

Heyyy

Anyone got a counter team for this?

[broken shuttle]

yw!

[broken shuttle]

for what?

[proper wasp]

https://pokepast.es/5f533df130186b3e

Sorry forgot to paste the team

[proper wasp]

?

[ripe turret]

isn’t this like one of the milwaukee teams with like a couple changes

[proper wasp]

Yes I know

It’s the one that won the regionals

But this was made by my friend

And we fought and I was in a bad match up against him with my team

[ripe turret]

I see

what if you use like iron treads

hear me out

[proper wasp]

I’m hearing you out

[ripe turret]

counters mirai and whims

and lunala if you can force a Tera

gets rid of terrain

uh

[proper wasp]

So maybe a urshifu rapid strike and a pokemon that can counter lunala to force her into tera and switch with urshifu to iron threads?

[ripe turret]

what if you go

single strike

(this is a bad idea but I think it’s funny)

[proper wasp]

Why single strike?

[ripe turret]

forces Tera on 3 mons

[proper wasp]

Interesting

[ripe turret]

(I feel like it’s a bad idea but it would be fun)

(lol)

[proper wasp]

Mmm

You think rapid strike better?

[ripe turret]

honestly rapid strike has a lot of deterrents on this team

helm incin, whims, mirai

[proper wasp]

Well can we build something around urshifu rapid strike to still counter my friend’s team

[ripe turret]

true

[proper wasp]

Urshifu rapid strike is my main on my main team

So I pretty much know him

A lot

[ripe turret]

ok I mean if you want to

I’m honestly having trouble thinking of a restricted partner

[proper wasp]

Zama

The steel fighting type?

[ripe turret]

uh

I don’t think I like it here

it seems like a really bad matchup for it

[proper wasp]

Let me see my list

Mmm

Mmmm

Mmmm

@ripe turret

[ripe turret]

yeah

[proper wasp]

What about this two lists? Any you like?

[proper wasp]

.

[ripe turret]

uh

first of all grouping bastiodon with everything else in there is criminal lmao

but anyway

[proper wasp]

Not made by me

[ripe turret]

maybe lunala?

idk

[proper wasp]

To build around something around urshifu…

This will be harddd

[ripe turret]

oh I was still going off treads lol

mb

[proper wasp]

Ohh

Okay okay

[ripe turret]

well I still stand by the statement that rapidshifu isn’t too good here

but

hmm

[proper wasp]

I know

I just loved that Pokémon

[narrow dock]

I think I have a problem

https://pokepast.es/771bb84d6ea34e15
On this team I barely use Roaring moon,

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[narrow dock]

Should I replace it

[sleek laurel]

team looks pretty good in terms of Pokémon

few things I would change are some EV spreads and moves

as for Roaring Moon, I suppose you can but I would recommend keeping a Tailwind mode available

I also rarely use my Tailwind mode in Miraidon CIR situations but it's always nice to have the option

[narrow dock]

What EVS and moves?

[sleek laurel]

gimme a minute

Amoonguss' spread is outdated, it usually wants to run much more physical bulk to survive Calyrex-I's Glacial Lance as well as Adamant Chien-Pao's Icicle Crash

Iron Hands' spread is a new one to me but idk if it's from anywhere in particular because it looks specific enough to be real, do you know where it's from?

Miraidon is too slow, it needs 204 Speed EVs at a minimum, I'd just run Luca Ceribelli's spread unless you want to be even faster

Calyrex-I's spread is on the dex, I know, but I don't like only 36 Speed EVs especially on TailRoom, I'd personally run a spread of 252 HP / 116+ Attack / 12 Defense / 60 Special Defense / 68 Speed, which outspeeds Kyogre in Tailwind, still underspeeds Incineroar and Farigiraf in Trick Room, hits the standard 116 Adamant Attack, survives Timid Choice Specs Miraidon's stuff, and has 12 EVs leftover for Defense.

and as for moves:

Drain Punch over Heavy Slam on Hands, Heavy Slam is basically outdated

Psychic > Tera Blast on Farigiraf, more outdated stuff

Protect > Clear Smog on Amoonguss (optional but very recommended)

Tera Water or Dark on Farigiraf and Tera Water on Hands: Water Farigiraf is better versus opposing Calyrex-I, whereas Dark allows you to OHKO +1 Calyrex-I with Foul Play after surviving Glacial Lance with Electric Seed's aid

[proper wasp]

I still need help here

How do I counter this https://pokepast.es/5f533df130186b3e

Any suggestions on what I am missing? https://pokepast.es/cc6fdf1e62a4c934

[hearty tide]

... a second restricted mon??

[hearty tide]

wait this is lit my team lmao

i have a hard time against calyi but i might js be bad

helping hand koraidon one shots AV mirai

[proper wasp]

Don’t remember me

[proper wasp]

It was just not fully built

Now I have it built

[tranquil nova]

Im struggling a lot with terapagos any tips? https://pokepast.es/d69979f20e3770be

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/2e80b335feb38244
How's this team

[jovial creek]

what teams/sets are you struggling with

ursaluna+korai look good into it

[broken shuttle]

i would go tera ghost>normal on ursaluna and make it jolly max/max korai

adamant makes you a lot worse in the mirror even w. the added bulk

ghost is a rly consistent tera type on ursa bc it allows you to have a better iron hands & urshifu mu

[narrow dock]

Who do I make Jolly korai or ursa?

[broken shuttle]

koraidon

mb

[south token]

reg i https://pokepast.es/fa076b78a2bc46ed any thoughts?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @random wagon, @broken shuttle, @sleek laurel, @wanton abyss, @jovial creek, @sonic apex. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sleek laurel]

i assume you're trying to use Giratina-O?

seems pretty well built if that is the case, go Crunch or Throat Chop > Taunt on Chien-Pao is the only thing I can think of

(other than replacing Tina per optimization but you get what I mean lol)

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/b95322f9c9b81285

Any ideas for caly ice, just sorta lose to it + grimmsnarl since i cant taunt it

[jovial creek]

Go heavy Slam over iron head on hands

Its fat

You could try wisp incin for cir