VGC Rates

[burnt surge]

this will take you to the discord and the room on pokemon showdown

[fresh flicker]

Here's the thing. Vaporeon isn't viable, it's slow, frail, and doesn't hit hard, and is SEVERELY outclassed by Superior waters like Urshifu-R and Waterpon.

And plus it doesn't provide anything valuable.

[burnt surge]

what even does it do

[fresh flicker]

Urshifu-R provides a strong offensive water type that bypasses protect. Ogerpon-Wellspring provides a Follow Me User immune to sleep and Rage Powder, and can be a offensive threat as well as a great redirection pokemon.

[burnt surge]

ok it has Icy Wind and Helping Hand and Scald

...

and nothing else

Roar to stop Trick Room

[fresh flicker]

Even SUICUNE, is more viable in some structures.

It provides more to the table.

Not much, but it's SOMETHING.

[burnt surge]

vaporeon is pretty down there in terms of water types

list of more viable water types:

Ogerpon-W
Urshifu-R
Suicune
Iron Bundle
Gyara
Walking Wake
Milotic
Dondozo/Giri
Blastoise
Empoleon
Rotom-W
Pelipper/Politoed/Basculegion/Kingdra/Ludicolo
Gastrodon
Palafin```

to make vap work

it's gonna need a lot of support

and raichu is not it

[heady latch]

Thank you for your advice. So I need to figure out how to support Vape in the best possible way.
I know that there are more viable Water-Types (btw. I hate Urshifu - this thing is not fair) - but playing with your favourites can be nice. It's okay for me to loose some matches - but using Gengar instead of Flutter (think this comparison fits) is more fun to me even if I won't make it so high in the ladder.
I like the challenge of building niche-like and gimmick-teams (even if they can not compete on tournaments). Playing with meta is cool but brings no fun to me 🙂

I will follow the discussion in off-meta forums.

[cerulean totem]

use vaporeon as a support with helping hand, icy wind and scald, it will not work if you want to sweep with it

charm maybe?

[drifting onyx]

Baby-Doll Eyes (Gen 9)

Lowers the target's Attack by 1 stage.

Type

Fairy

Category

Non-Damaging

Power

0

Accuracy

100

PP

30 (48)

Priority

1

Target

Any adjacent

Flags

• Blocked by Protect
• Bounced back by Magic Coat or Magic Bounce
• Copied by Mirror Move

[cerulean totem]

i think it could complete an incin-vaporeon-rillaboom fwg

[cerulean totem]

yeah that too

[burnt surge]

oh it's a single target move

[cerulean totem]

this can help support setup, such as gholdengo or others idrk

i cooked up an absolute banger of a gastrodon team

[fresh flicker]

Honestly Vapor is too passive. If I want a water, I use my SD Boosted Water Cudgel.

[sand minnow]

https://pokepast.es/7906c603d90ecf3d the idea is to have both a trick room mode and a tailwind mode depending on the matchup. Ogrepon and Landorus have proven to be a great combo and Tornadus I imagine is a great enabeler for Lando.

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sand minnow]

wow that's quite the bot you have here

[wild sinew]

I think the Trick Room mode is just too passive, and Cresselia Amoonguss becomes to feel like a burden.

I do think a way to fix this issue is to replace those 2 with Farigiraf and Ursaluna-Bloodmoon. You can also up the mode a notch by going Clear Amulet Iron Hands.

I'd recommend a faster Landorus for Tailwind, at least to outspeed opposing Urshifu.

[distant stump]

ye its neat

I'd also probs go

Bm fig instead of cress amoonguss, as well consider

going for camulet hands

[sand minnow]

Yes that's what Luna suggested as well

https://pokepast.es/6dfcfa73f717609e Here's the update

[distant stump]

Not being able to run lorb on bm is kind of an issue

it really needs lorb

Probs

[sand minnow]

So what should Lando run instead?

[distant stump]

I'd

switch it out

Its not really neccesary if you have BM

Urshifu single strike works well in that slot

as an offensive tailwind threat

[sand minnow]

Raging bolt seems like a popular partner to Torn

https://youtu.be/XDwfbMBU3cM?feature=shared how funny, he built almost the same team

[burnt surge]

that's not terribly surprising

considering that you want to use teams that are good

[rugged glen]

https://pokepast.es/6f2b4790138691f1 make palafin stroger

[sand minnow]

I’m all down for Palafin relevancy

[burnt surge]

The opposing Ogerpon-Wellspring used Follow Me!

[rugged glen]

palafin used taunt

still cant do anything sigh

[wild sinew]

A strong special attacker like Flutter Mane, Landorus, or Raging Bolt are ideal over Ogerpon-W. Waterpon kinda overlaps with your other water types and Amoonguss, and another special attacker helps with flexibility in choosing a wincon, Tera Grass Incinineroar also kind of cooks the team so they would help with that.

You might want to go Tera Grass Incineroar yourself now that you lost another Spore Immunity.

As for Palafin

https://tenor.com/view/urshifu-pokemon-pokemon-sword-and-shield-pokemon-journeys-urshifu-move-gif-24747047

[rugged glen]

nooo

[rugged glen]

alr tyvm

[rugged glen]

ok wtf,, ursh pog

[calm harbor]

Hello :)
https://pokepast.es/c8b7aac83017248c
I just made this team for fun but I wanted to know if Regigigas could have a better Tera type and moveset or if it’s good how it is

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sand minnow]

I don’t know about earthquake since you don’t have any flying types or levitate users

[cerulean totem]

simply put use more meta pokemon

weezing should be gunk shot/sludge bomb, taunt, protect and will-o-wisp

evs are bad

yeah basically use more meta threats

[calm harbor]

Alright thanks, and I believe instead of earthquake I could put high horsepower to Gigas

Or I could add Skarmory to the team, a wall wouldn’t go bad in the team. But it’s still feels better to have HHP

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/d635f5b1a77e0e56

I made this team for jokes

But now I wanna make it better

How can i

[sand minnow]

That’s such a meme core that I don’t know how to improve it

[wild sinew]

Only way you can really do that is by scrapping the idea

[fresh flicker]

Yea.. Dance teams don't do well.

They are easily shutdown.

Especially by Taunt

[rustic quest]

https://pokepast.es/d138cd7f75fd4d60

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rustic quest]

i would enjoy 2 diffrent pokemon other then those two in the back, what should i do?

[cerulean totem]

evs need to be sorted, goth would like a different item, primarina isn’t the best tr abuser rn, swords dance on urshi is not great, use protect

[narrow dock]

Does anyone have an auspicious armor

[subtle rock]

hello! I’m new to VGC but I really enjoy weather teams, here’s what I have so far (I would like to replace roaring moon but I’m not sure what with) https://pokepast.es/09cc344c484bf6e2

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Ninetales Articuno is actually pretty good right now, though it has pretty different sets and teammates.
Would you be interested in that sample team?

[subtle rock]

yes please! thank you

[wild sinew]

https://pokepast.es/262c301130a20afb?s=09

[subtle rock]

do you know of any alternates for Landorous? I’m not the biggest fan of it, everything else looks wonderful though

[wild sinew]

Don't think so unfortunately
Fast Ground is really good on the team

[subtle rock]

that’s alright then, thank you again!

[solar trail]

could i get some help with the team this is my first time trying to create something

[opaque knot]

Website?

[burnt surge]

!pokepaste

[drifting onyx]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[solar trail]

wym website?

[burnt surge]

I think they're asking how you created this screenshot

Though if you're trying to get your team rated, you should share it as a Pokepaste

[wild sinew]

Arcanine is outclassed by Incineroar in pretty much every way

Tornadus doesn't really fit the team with how slow it is, can probably switch it for Farigiraf or forgo speed control and use something like Flutter Mane.

Though if you use Flutter, Primarina doesn't really do anything for the team and you'd rather one of Roaring Moon, Chien-Pao, or Landorus

[solar trail]

@burnt surge i just made it off of a Sword and sheild template I had so that it would look cleaner

[latent saddle]

yo can anyone help me with my last slot and help fix the issues with it https://pokepast.es/2b468223e59fc214 ive tried abt 80 different teams with different pokemon but i couldnt get a decent team so i came looking for other peoples support

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

Where do you generally want to go with this team?

Theres a lot of differen't ways you can take this on a structural level, though most of the time

you want to remove hands for raging bolt

[latent saddle]

i dont really know tbh this is my first practise with vgc

[distant stump]

bolts just kinda better

[latent saddle]

kk

any bolt sets? that you recommend

[distant stump]

AV is fine

[latent saddle]

k

[distant stump]

I would recommend

Going for Incineroar over Harc and Raging Bolt over Hands

Gives you much more support/room to maneuver, generally easier to pilot

https://pokepast.es/0af63e8393ba9a64

Something like this

[latent saddle]

but then ninetales and articuno becomes a problem

[distant stump]

Also, general tip if your trying to get better, dont switch teams so much

[latent saddle]

kk

[distant stump]

You cant get used to a certain core and are constantly trying to adjust, limiting your ability to practice/learn

[distant stump]

eh the mu is fine

incin and tera steel lando is great into both

[latent saddle]

kk ty

ill take this on board thank you for your help

[distant stump]

GL and hope you enjoy VGC!

[latent saddle]

ty!

[wanton yarrow]

Just to be weird I have scovillan on my team

[snow bluff]

Any suggestions on this team? https://pokepast.es/6eb4b6fb2a827a02

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

Theres a couple diff directions you could take this, you can go for a rain team by adding peliper and landorus instead of zap and bolt, or a more balance style with Flutter, Wogerpon and Moon instead of basically the whole right row

[wild sinew]

^ Zapdos is an inconsistent rain setter and is in general not great right now, being outclassed as an electric with little to offer.

[gray slate]

I would slap Pelliper or Tornadus if you want both Rain AND Tailwaind on your team.
Pelliper for instant rain + It learns tailwind. But it has weak stats + quad weakness.
Tornadus because it has prankster meaning it wont get taunted that easily. But it isnt THAT tanky.
Zap is an instreasting choice as it is quite tanky, but it could get taunted. You could still make it work but it could be a bit difficult.

[gray slate]

true.

[cerulean totem]

peliper over zapdos for sure

but if you really really want zap then bolt should have rising voltage over tbolt

[inner hazel]

ive tasked myself with building a team with only pokemon with some connection to central america and this is the list of those pokemon legal in vgc https://pokepast.es/01f78f9b6bfce600 so im curious what is the best team you see out of this list

[north tree]

Hi, this channel is only for rating fully built teams. I will DM you the team I build out of this anyway but for future reference please use comp-general or another medium for things like this.

Actually NVM the team feels like an impossible task would take me a while to make something remotely viable.

[inner hazel]

on that note please rate this team i made from that list of pokemon lol https://pokepast.es/86fa3a2f578d4ecf

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wanton abyss]

Hi thanks for sharing @inner hazel ! I will say, this looks like a cool theme team!

[inner hazel]

the theme is good no debate but idk how actually viable it is its alot of bulk/support/stall but with the 3 birds able to setup rain and tailwind i felt that ludicolo rain stall might be something to look into

i think alot of the mons are good in their respective teams but its hard to find a team able to use them well and with good synergy

[wanton abyss]

A few notes: Moltres has better ways of boosting Special Attack than Throat Spray Hyper Voice. Moltres gets Nasty Plot (and Hurricane!), as well as the busted ability Berserk. I’d recommend those options over the current one. In terms of everything else, your movesets are a bit contradictory. Zapdos with Heat Wave and Rain Dance doesn’t work right. Manual Rain is a boon for the team, especially with Ludicolo…and I think the team could function without weather if need be. Ludicolo can function with an Assault Vest with Fake Out and attacks. Hawlucha normally runs unburden but I see how that could be hard on a team like this

Also, Tera fighting is bad. There’s almost never a reason to use Tera fighting.

There’s a couple different directions you can go. Moltres functions best as a set up sweeper, and quite a few of the Pokémon you’ve shown get Tailwind and some form of recovery. Using your two Fake Out Pokemon and a Tailwind Pokemon to create space for Moltres to take KOs seems to be the best way to optimize this team for competitive play

[inner hazel]

ive always liked moltres as a setup mon but with his ability for me he has always been 2 too low of health after his beserk boost to make use of him effectively hence the throat spray to increase his damage more effectively and on my own term instead of relying on the opponent to hit my moltres

[inner hazel]

boost drain punch lol literally no other reason he already has a good defensive typing so if i tera it would only be for his offense

[inner hazel]

the reason i dropped hurricane was because it was too dependent on rain and i need a team able to function outside of it because i only have manual setters so if i run into a torkoal and i have a hard manual rain team it would be almost an insta loss

i completly forgot ludi gor fake out and didnt even think of an av set but your right i think enabling moltres is gonna be the only way that this team can find success

[fresh flicker]

https://pokepast.es/34607ad8240e916b

I already have success with this team. But I want to improve it even further.

Delete that post and use pokepaste if you have the EV's IV's and moves.

Besides Veil only works in snow.

!pokepaste

[drifting onyx]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[fresh flicker]

@dapper apex

[dapper apex]

👍

[fresh flicker]

This is a pokepaste. https://pokepast.es/34607ad8240e916b

It's generally best to explain moves, EV's and IV's.

If you're new to competitive. I'd recommend using a pre-existing team.

[fresh flicker]

Anyways, anyone willing to help me make changes?

[dapper apex]

https://pokepast.es/d0650f83101025f8 I think I got it

Like I said any advice is appreciated

[wild sinew]

I think the 6 is strong, just suggested different sets.

Urshifu-R really wants Choice Scarf outside of Tailwind for the immidiete offensive pressure

I recommend 2 spore immunities on every team so consider Goggles Incineoar, not mandatory though

Raging Bolt would rather a Lefties Calm Mind set with the given double Fake Out support

Otherwise looks fine, I like Specs Flutter on this composition but it can be a preference

[fresh flicker]

I'm going to try multiple variations of your suggestions. One in particular with CM Flutter> CM Bolt so I have a better matchup against other Flutter. While keeping Bolt as is. But I have a team with the Specs flutter > SpD. Booster and one with the SpD. Booster > Specs. I'll try which one works best.

And obviously for a few of these I have CM Bolt.

[spice raft]

https://pokepast.es/b1a48325f9f4901c just made the team to see if I can make any good teams. Any suggestions to make it better?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[inner hazel]

and im back here https://pokepast.es/dc9d04b87901ab4d < Mexican Themed Team (https://pokepast.es/01f78f9b6bfce600 this is the list of mons i have to choose from)

(https://pokepast.es/86fa3a2f578d4ecf this was the original team)

[tropic saffron]

https://pokepast.es/070b5e15dbe57cb7 this is my second team ever made, can anyone rate it to me ?

[fresh flicker]

Can you explain the reasons for which mon and Moves, EV's etc?

Although generally recommended you use pre-existing teams that won the regionals to get a grip of the metagame.

If you perhaps want to use one, depends on what you like. But my recommendation is the Balance team WolfeGlick made.

[wild sinew]

I think the main thing you want to keep an eye out for when building is synergy

Your two slow Pokemon want to be in Trick Room and don't take full advantage of Tailwind, you'd rather replace them with Fast threats like Landorus and Flutter Mane. Annihilape is also slow this meta and you don't have enough support to help it set up bulk ups. Set up is also in general losing out on Tailwind turns.

[wild sinew]

You'd benefit more from Clear Amulet Iron Hands here, it works as a Trick Room sweeper with Farigiraf that isn't pressured by Incineroar.

I don't really like Suicune here, Farigiraf provides plenty of speed control and it seems to be, dead weight? Urshifu, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, and other Pokemon that provide a lot of offensive pressure are appreciated.

Also don't think the team is weak enough to Intimidate to justify Ogerpon-teal, Ogerpon-Wellspring is a more consistent redirector in the meta thanks to typing.

[craggy ivy]

https://pokepast.es/fe5f6c3fe06a1ab7

[feral hemlock]

https://pokepast.es/8fc611e6fcc10ccc thoughts ??

[uncut harness]

https://pokepast.es/89716ebc632d8588

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[uncut harness]

VGC team

[uncut harness]

I made this a while back, but was never able to finish it...I am just getting BACK into VGC and a little rusty

Any thougts or advice about this team

Honestly dont mind giving up Glim for Crisel

[wild sinew]

Assuming you're new to vgc? Charizard does less damage than Chi-Yu and hence generally outclassed. Torkoal doesn't really succeed as a support Pokemon currently and without trick room can be dead weight. Fezandipiti is a really bad pokemon thanks to its stat spread. Heavy duty boots is a bad item as hazards are non existent in VGC.

Would recommend using a sample team to get into the tier before building

[wild sinew]

Would unfortunately also suggest using a sample team to get into the tier.

The only good Pokemon here is Ursaluna-B and it needs trick room to function efficiently. You can make an argument for Sylveon but it's niche thanks to how good Flutter Mane is.

[distant stump]

This is fine

Lmao

[wild sinew]

This looks good

[distant stump]

Rest yeah are pretty mid

[uncut harness]

for my team?

[distant stump]

no the other teams

[uncut harness]

Ah ok ok

[uncut harness]

I was thinking on making some changes to prob make it more balance and correct me if I am wrong but isnt Water Ogerpon good in Balance team or HO better

[distant stump]

the team is good

wogerpon is good pretty much everywhere, the redirection and offenses are never not appreciated

[uncut harness]

Ok ok good to know! I replaced Sunny day with Rain dance because Chi-yu doesnt need anymore dmg so I am giving Oger extra dmg

[distant stump]

I'd suggest protect instead of weather

or scary face

[uncut harness]

Hmm alright

ill consider it

[lost phoenix]

https://pokepast.es/55144b33f78ca05f

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

I think AV Arch with Amoon over Rilla is always better

Flutter Mane big scary

[lost phoenix]

rilla is for psyspam

they just tera fairy and i cry

[wild sinew]

I'm pretty sure Torn Lando lead does fine into Psyspam

[lost phoenix]

ok i got bored of gmolt and rilla lol
https://pokepast.es/6240793f0ae7918d

[wild sinew]

I like this yeah

[lost phoenix]

gonna make bolt more speedy prob

[noble venture]

i want to make an iron bundle support team, i love the little robotic penguin, https://pokepast.es/4a25e1a1e16c130c something is missing since i cant get it past 1400-1500 on showdown, feedback would be much appreciated

[spiral shale]

i think torn should either be cloak or protect

[cerulean totem]

lando should have a buit of bulk and tera grass incin works way better here. maybe try doing a trick and nasty plot set with a defensive tera for dengo, it’s been doing well recently

also i would go faster ogerpon, 188 evs jolly nature, due to landorus being a menace to your team if bundle is taken out or they tera steel

[cerulean totem]

i would go cloak on torn and then give the hem to amoonguss, and yeah adjust the bolt evs

good teams though

[noble venture]

thx, i have already tried the speedy ogerpon some minutes ago with a friend and it's probably the solution to my landorus problem

[cerulean totem]

np, my favourite wogerpon set rn is 188+ speed, 12 spdef, 4 def, 68 atk and the rest in hp

[distant stump]

This team would just be kinda better with tornadus instead of bundle

Bundle has really underwhelming damage, and tornadus/booster flutter do the speed control better

Ice just aint worth running over another mon

Urshifu-S over incin also really helps increase the tempo of the team

[wild sinew]

If only Torn wasn't just 10x better here

Bundle is a fun little robot but unfortunately pretty bad

[noble venture]

yeah i know i can use tornadus but the whole point in making it was to play with bundle, i dont want to win worlds with this team, i want it to be just viable so i can have fun playin with my robot chicken!

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/fe9f0bee6d7cffc3 yo chat it’s moth time

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[north tree]

replace gastro for something immediate offensive pressure but it looks p good

[distant stump]

I'd say wtf is frostmoth doing but i've heard from some people that its apparently "cooking"

still replace frostmoth and gastro

[cerulean totem]

1. frosmoth is him there is no other way of looking at it
2. i understand the ‘replace gastro’ but it fills a lot of roles in the team (FWG, ground coverage, TR mu, dozo answer, urshifu rapid/wogerpon mu) and i think it’s pretty silly

do you think i should be boring and put lando-i there?

i haven’t tried it yet because i don’t like using lando but if you think i’m really weak with gastro then sure, i just really value dozo mu and fwg, that lando doesn’t give

WAIT I’M COOKING STEALTH ROCKS IS THE PLAY

[distant stump]

Bro just go wogerpon

yeah rs then

[cerulean totem]

i have hearthflame

[distant stump]

I saw, use rapid strike

[cerulean totem]

but ground coverage…

[distant stump]

If only I could replace a convenient frosthmoth for landorus....

[cerulean totem]

nah the moth is staying

[distant stump]

Urshifu-R is better in every single way pretty much

[cerulean totem]

it’s moth time

[cerulean totem]

the defensive structure kinda crumbles with single strike i feel like

[distant stump]

Urshifu-rapid-strike

probs is

gastrodon is really mid

like really

urshifu-r is better but then your only se to raging bolt is ninetales which is really mid

[cerulean totem]

fair enough

thought it was funny and i could make it work

[wild sinew]

The big thing is Gastro sucks at those roles

Your super effective ground coverage is probably weaker than Surging Strikes
Dozo answer you don't really need
TR mu but a sitting duck
Waterpon answer but quad week to Grass
Rapid answer but 2hkod by CC

[cerulean totem]

that is fair yeah

i switched to lando because offensive ground works much better than offensive water

it’s an odd set because i don’t need poison coverage but it’s lando nonetheless

[craggy ivy]

Finding a lot of success with this. Anything I should add/change? https://pokepast.es/87fccb0d52d45908

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

For a team start this is fine

[wild sinew]

Unfortunately we only rate completed teams, one of the comp general channels would be a better fit for this

[distant stump]

I would ideally switch wellspring for amoonguss, the offensive pressure and just pure redirection is better on semiroom

[craggy ivy]

Ah, sorry. I didn’t know I could post in there

[craggy ivy]

Gotcha, thanks

[distant stump]

Cant you just add 2 random mons in the last slot and call it done?

[craggy ivy]

Only reason I didn’t do that is because I didn’t know what I would need or want to put, so I’d rather just leave it open

[wild sinew]

If I need to change 3 or more mons anyway then I'd sample them

[distant stump]

mhh

[craggy ivy]

I don’t think I’ve had any problems with any mon yet. I’m just running through teams after getting a trick room up

[fresh flicker]

Tera Dark isn't needed so you can add Tera fairy.

[craggy ivy]

Thank you

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/af3a84b04603c02b how do I counter opposing tornadus and farigiraf

With this team

[wild sinew]

For Farigiraf, Amoonguss is usually a great answer to their trick room mode

Tornadus I don't really see the issue
You bulk through pretty much everything with Incineroar Amoonguss Archaludon

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/2e4eaf22898a9e85 what about this team

[wild sinew]

No rain

Idk why you'd want Whimsicott

[hidden path]

any toxtricity team?

cuz yes

[distant stump]

no

[hidden path]

yes

[cerulean totem]

brother where is the rain

bro built a rain team with no rain…

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/23ce3222a2b38831 i recooked with frosmoth guys

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[cerulean totem]

the tean actually slaps now

[harsh zealot]

https://pokepast.es/d7b55e5011e6d8b9
Hyper offense, unfortunately my EV spreads are all over the place and idk how to take advantage of sunny day.

(Please don't bully me too badly, I'm new and don't know things.)

[wild sinew]

There's a sample team that follows a similar concept though changes quite a few Pokemon, are you fine if I send you that?

[harsh zealot]

ig i can learn from it

I mean, idk which sample team I should be looking at at all

for an example

[wild sinew]

https://pokepast.es/ef67c92e7bcb646c

[harsh zealot]

oh

that one

I have actually seen it

but idk how it works

and I just don't get any of the ev spreads

lol

[wild sinew]

Similar to what you were thinking
Tornadus can set up sun for Flutter Mane and Chi Yu to exploit. Every member takes advantage of Tailwind.

Speed boosting Flutter Mane also lets you have more speed control for the Tailwind mirror and vs certain teams, allows you to just not bring Tornadus and go for the Offensive from the start.

Glimmora is good vs priority spam and rock is an incredibly valuable offensive typing, just synergises well with Tailwind and Beads of Ruin

Ogerpon-Wellspring functions as a supportive piece that doesn't lose momentum for you, helps redirect Urshifu-R which threatens your special attackers.

Both hit Incineroar hard which is always appreciated

Urshifu is just there because broken, Unseen Fist minimizes the defensive play they can use to stall out Tailwind and it's one of the hardest pokemon to switch into.

As for EVs, there are explanations on the strategy dex

[harsh zealot]

how would flutter mane exploit sun though if it's also using booster energy

[wild sinew]

Lets you come in multiple times
But it's mainly for Chi Yu

[harsh zealot]

so if I don't use chi yu would it be better to run rain on tornadus or something?

[wild sinew]

Yes, though rain dance Tornadus usually runs different Pokemon

[harsh zealot]

I was thinking maybe if urshifu was switched to urshifu-r it would also gain more damage along with ogerpon-w?

or should I still run sun with ogerpon-h?

or does sun not help ogerpon-h?

[wild sinew]

Would recommend Amoonguss over it and Archaludon in the Chi Yu slot there

[harsh zealot]

is ogerpon-w better than ogerpon-h because typing?

is it replaceable with ogerpon-h?

[wild sinew]

Yes

[harsh zealot]

even over the attack boost from embody aspect?

[wild sinew]

Yep

[harsh zealot]

and urshifu is more broken than chi-yu with sun?

[wild sinew]

Probably

[harsh zealot]

if I don't use chi-yu what should I run instead of sunny day? taunt?

[wild sinew]

That or Rain Dance usually

I highly recommend looking at this
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/

[harsh zealot]

heh

I missed the one sentence at the end

about sunny day and rain dance

actually

I missed the whole paragraph

would rain dance make rapid strike better than single strike?

[wild sinew]

Often yeah
Unless you want to go single strike + Ogerpon-W

[hoary marsh]

I've tried to make a rhyperior work https://pokepast.es/1aed4e5858d1f47e thoughts

[north tree]

• Who is activating weakness policy on that team? You can't really rely on your opponent to do so.

• Raging bolt can't click thunderclap in psychic terrain, if you want a non indeedee mode that can hit before the opponent use flutter or walking wake.

• Clefairy doesn't belong here, indeedee does everything it does already.

• banded gallade?? It's your tr setter and clear amulet is going to ignore intimidate anyway. Use a set with clear amulet, sacred sword, psycho cut, trick room and wide guard

[cerulean totem]

i agree^

[sand minnow]

is this a good first vgc team? https://pokepast.es/df1ac0322857db25

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[north tree]

This actually looks rather solid, I'll give you some set advices rather than deconstructing the team.

• Metagross should have heavy slam over knock off, the stab is amazing and Metagross is heavy enough to hit most things for 120bp

• Protect on volcarona instead of tera blast ground, and change the tera to either dragon or fairy. If dragon, run giga drain over bug buzz. If fairy, run tera blast over bug buzz.

• Roaring Moon should be tera flying over dragon and protect over dragon claw.

• Flutter Mane wants choice specs and tera fairy instead of fairy feather.

• I think Incineroar is a really good addition over farigiraf, it helps facilitate your setup sweepers excellently

[sand minnow]

Do you have any good ideas for the incineroar item? I already have sitrus on volcarona

[north tree]

Safety Goggles is a very common incineroar item

[sand minnow]

Alright!

[cerulean totem]

in addition, you may want to change some of the evs spreads

[north tree]

! vgcresources

!vgcresources

[drifting onyx]

VGC24 Regulation F (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Viability Rankings
• Speed Tiers
• Metagame Discussion Thread
• C&C Reservation Thread
• VGCPastes Repository
• Discord
• Pokémon Showdown! Room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[north tree]

Use the dex page for spreads

[harsh zealot]

https://pokepast.es/8940cc64cfe659e9
second try, I'm using rapid over single urshifu to take advantage of rain, rain over sun because water types seem stronger than fire types, and I would really like to keep dragapult, since it is actually viable when combined with chien-pao's sword of ruin, but I am not sure about its evs or chien-pao's evs since 4/252/0/0-/0/252+ seems to not be so popular these days.

please help

[cerulean totem]

go 4 defense evs in chien pao over 4 hp evs and this looks alright

you have to be careful about your amoonguss matchup though

also personal preference i would go specs flutter and jolly ogerpon

[harsh zealot]

what about dragapult, should I also switch the hp to def?

[harsh zealot]

I got ogerpon’s ev and nature from smogon dex and samples, changing nature would probably make things not work

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/a81a97378055aa9b Any ideas for this team? Saw that H-Arc was picking up use with AV so i wanted to slot it on a team

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

Tbf

Theres a couple ways you could take this

Dengo and Incin over Flutter and Harc makes a pretty strong offensive team, ig you can keep harc instead of incin

I haven't seen av harc much tho

A lotta the sets aren't great, dark fu generally wants sash, if you want the damage just commit to choice band for the extra calcs it gives

[hallow ether]

https://pokepast.es/4b1c6525b4755843

[hallow ether]

issit any good

[wild sinew]

Sitrus Berry is a much better item for Incineroar as it can proc more often.

Walking Wake is pretty bad and Flutter Mane just kind of does everything you want it to do but better.

Rillaboom prefers Assault Vest to more reliably take on Flutter Mane and Landorus. The special bulk is a little sad without it and vgc games aren't long enough for Leftovers to be as effective.

Dragapult and Sneasler just suck unfortunately, far too frail and don't compensate for it in damage. Both only outputting single target damage highlights their frailty, and Dragon Darts is pretty much chip damage thanks to 50 BP on each target. These two slots are pretty flexible though

Urshifu-R can be used since you don't have a water type anymore, and it has incredible synergy with Hearthflame which redirects Spore, Grassy Glide, Thunderclap, and Moonblast semi reliably. While Urshifu-R takes care of Incineroar which your team can't quickly remove.

Can go for Chien-Pao as a final slot to create more foundation to your offensive core or Landorus for the reassurance against Raging Bolt and Incineroar. Both obviously being fantastic Pokemon on their own.

[hallow ether]

alright thanks

[winter gulch]

I can't even leave you alone for two minutes without you trash talking wake like this, not cool :(

[distant stump]

Dragapult is kinda ass

Its just way too frail and recovers on tera too much

you can probs do

Incin > Dragapult

and make a fine HO team

also, dont run tera ice chien pao

Idk how y'all write such big comments

[wild sinew]

Valiant >

[winter gulch]

💀

[cerulean totem]

changing the nature will work, trust me. you lose some insignificant damage and get to outspeed lando-i

[cerulean totem]

ong bro walking wake isn’t badddd

even though tbf flutter does work better on that team

[winter gulch]

wake is only good on sun tbf

[distant stump]

problem is

viability of sun

lmao

[wild sinew]

Yeah

Also imo Wake is kinda niche in sun

[winter gulch]

says the valiant player :/

[distant stump]

Im not a valiant player !

I play sylveon instead :3

[wild sinew]

The better sun stuff use FlutterYu and sometimes Bolt

[distant stump]

much cuter mon to like

just dont run sun

tbf

[wild sinew]

True

[cerulean totem]

run frosmoth snow like me

:3

frosmoth beats flutter, valiant, sylveon, chi yu and walking wake and all of your favourite mons hehe

[wild sinew]

Probably loses to Valiant

[lost phoenix]

https://pokepast.es/000fc061e00aa625 drago!!

[winter gulch]

is guss better than waterpon here

[lost phoenix]

I need some conception of a proper flutter check

[winter gulch]

with these teams your flutter check is honestly "kill it before it kills you" which is totally possible since its quite HO

[wild sinew]

It's because you're using metagross

Idk it's kinda like worse AV Gambit to me

[winter gulch]

metagross cool though

Resident sun haters rate this
https://pokepast.es/859702bb0b34ead6

[distant stump]

Doesen't lando I just like

eat this

[distant stump]

This is kinda all over the place

[winter gulch]

depends on how good the opponent is

[distant stump]

Which direction do you want to go in?

[distant stump]

Thats... not a great MU into one of the top mons in the format

[winter gulch]

it mostly depends on whether the tw setter runs rain

if they don't I'm usually good

to like outplay or something

[distant stump]

like

av tera fairy bolt

lando

or smh

[winter gulch]

the bad MUs are ghost Chi-Yu HO, Raging Bolt, Gouging Fire
Ghost Chi-Yu if 50-50 on lead if I know its there (OTS)
Gouging Fire depends on how good the opponent is but I have a line?
Raging Bolt is just negative MU but good play always wins

[distant stump]

Ehh I mean

if your better

[winter gulch]

idk everything is pretty fine into lando-i tbh

[distant stump]

you can win against any team

doesen't mean the overall comp is great

[winter gulch]

just click glide aggressively and its fine

[distant stump]

im just not a fan of sun in general

feels way to easy to beat like, howd I say this

[winter gulch]

I think its undersold, but it is a relatively linear playstyle

[distant stump]

Its like rain kinda

very liner

like one piece dies and your mu into smh is done

[lost phoenix]

I think its pretty clear this is ho?

[winter gulch]

idk what rain you're playing but I don't think I'd agree with that one

https://pokepast.es/7ed6ed899429807f
Here's the other version of sun if you like the memes

[distant stump]

Archa dies, or lando I dies and the game is pre much over

Or if you can neutralize one or the other

[distant stump]

Like, generally teams with Regidrago and teams with Flutter Fish have diff comps

[lost phoenix]

How is this even worse into ursh s

[lost phoenix]

Yeah ik thats why im getting this rated

[distant stump]

If its Drago moreso, its way more offensive/utility I guess?

Lemme get a sample

[lost phoenix]

I know how they are

Im just trying smth new

[distant stump]

Ye

[winter gulch]

it really isn't that mad into Ursh-S

[distant stump]

My problem with Amoonguss

[winter gulch]

you just hit it with a special attack

[distant stump]

And metagross

its really slow

[lost phoenix]

Metagross is just for the funsies

I could easily be glimmora in that slot

[distant stump]

Like

[winter gulch]

idk Amoonguss is inherently bad on HO btw

[distant stump]

You use Hearthflame/Rillaboom

[winter gulch]

its just idt you can afford to drop two attacking slots for gross and guss

[distant stump]

Still really offensive pieces with prio and stuff

but has follow me and fake out

amoonguss just has no pressure

with drago a big thing

is maintaining speed control

[lost phoenix]

Hence double icy wind and bulky torn

[distant stump]

amoonguss and gross are too passive to blast through teams so that you can make use of it

eh

when are you gonna

[lost phoenix]

Ok fine ill just use vest rilla

[winter gulch]

completely different format but not true

[distant stump]

lock into icy wind on flutter specs

[lost phoenix]

And then like glimmora

[distant stump]

if ur using it for the funnies

bring whatever

[winter gulch]

guss is a good MU patch and just a general skill diff mon

and you can never go wrong with redirection

[distant stump]

Thats kinda diff tho, your running rain and more defensive stuff with lando-t

your wincon isen't a kinda frail health reliant sweeper

[winter gulch]

lando-t is not defensive 💀
Its SD 3 attack

[distant stump]

zacian is really bulky

[distant stump]

it has intim and sd

more than drago at least

Amoonguss on HO is fine but with drago

I think you need more rpessure

[winter gulch]

you just need one more attacking slot imo

its just that torn guss gross is not enough pressure when al l three are on the same HO team

[distant stump]

Why use gross to beat flutter

when you can just

https://tenor.com/view/ogerpon-pokemon-ogerpon-ogerpon-pokemon-poochyena-ivy-cudgel-gif-5046741278776982481

with ogerpon-h ya know

[winter gulch]

well its not like you can't just invest bulk into these mons

with that much speed most mons like Chi-Yu are investing a lot more into bulk

and we already know flutter is bulky af

[lost phoenix]

https://pokepast.es/4b379539616171b6 this literally became the same as all my other drago teams lol

[hallow ether]

https://pokepast.es/fc3386f4fb742010

how abt this

[north tree]

• Incineroar should have a really good reason for running protect instead of knock, I don't see any of that here so either explain or replace with knock off.

• Chien-Pao should be Adamant or Jolly, not lonely, dropping special attack is far better than dropping defense. Tera Dark is also mostly inferior on this set to tera stellar. Ice spinner should be replaced with icicle crash as ice spinner removes your own terrain and either crunch or sacred sword for sucker punch. If you choose to replace sacred sword for sucker, you can keep tera dark.

• Go life orb Landorus with tera poison/steel and a set of Earth Power, Sludge Bomb, Substitute and Protect.

• High Horsepower or U-turn on Rillaboom instead of drain punch, both provide infinitely more value.

• All you spreads apart from incin (and pao if you change the nature) are a bit off so I'd recommend using dex spreads for them.

[little apex]

https://pokepast.es/b1612bcd05e51519 can someone give me pointers?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fiery iris]

Hi everyone, ive been playing VGC for awhile with rental teams and i am finally confident enough to make my own team. Here's waht i have so far. Any feedback is appreciated, thanks 🙏 Heres my team: https://pokepast.es/ddd62c1f2e5a6032

[harsh zealot]

in that case I would have to redo the entire ev spread

since it was designed specifically to outspeed modest landorus-i and ohko flutter mane with tera

if I change it to jolly I can outspeed jolly landorus but in return can no longer ohko flutter mane

[harsh zealot]

isn't tera ice more offensive than tera ghost? or is it not worth it?

[wild sinew]

Really just use sample teams until you get an idea of the tier, because none of these Pokemon are currently viable in vgc and you're already leaning too hard on Snow + Trick Room considering VGC's bring 6 pick 4 rule.

[wild sinew]

Good work, wouldn't say Tyranitar or Primarina work here though.

Tyranitar doesn't really bring value to the team as every Pokemon is negatively effected by sandstorm, and you already have Knock Off utility on Incineroar. Psychic and Rock coverage aren't mandatory, and something that synergises with the team like Farigiraf for speed control or Landorus to keep pressure on Raging Bolt are ideal. Raging Bolt does beat the rest of your team pretty badly.

Primarina stacks Water types and in turn, Raging Bolt weaknesses, which is an issue for this team. Replacing it with Flutter Mane or Urshifu-R with Urshifu-S sounds like your two best options.

[wild sinew]

It's more offensive yeah

But generally not worth it, it'll occasionally run Tera Stellar if you're going offensive as Chien-Pao isn't realistically staying on the field for more than 3 turns

[fathom jackal]

is there a vgc chat where i can ask vgc questions specifically or

[wild sinew]

You can try the Smogon VGC server or just one of the comp general channels in this server

[fathom jackal]

that exists?

tysm

[wild sinew]

https://discord.com/invite/AShdbdAg

[fathom jackal]

i joined

tysm

[distant stump]

Cant you just do

!vgcresources

whats the command again

[drifting onyx]

VGC24 Regulation F (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Viability Rankings
• Speed Tiers
• Metagame Discussion Thread
• C&C Reservation Thread
• VGCPastes Repository
• Discord
• Pokémon Showdown! Room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[wild sinew]

Now

[drifting onyx]

Unrecognized tier; please choose one from the list

[distant stump]

Ye that

click on disc

[wild sinew]

I already had the invite in my clipboard so

[fiery iris]

Thank you for your suggestion, so do you think if i put Farigiraf and Flutter Mane instead of Tyranitar adn Primarina would be a better pick?

i used safety goggles incineroar and tyranitar just to get the sandstorm up

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/679ac30c4ae1b718 vgc 2024 reg f

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[dense nebula]

forgot to put ivs on iron bundle ^

standard timid iv spread

[vapid cape]

https://pokepast.es/546483ad1dc5769c
2 main questions I have:
-What is good in Lando's last slot
-What edits can I make to deal with Farigaraf (my teams problem matchup right now)

[wild sinew]

Earth Power, great single target move that doesn't rely on rain and picks up certain kills.

Not directly an answer to Farigiraf but Flutter Mane is just better than Basc in that slot, as it overlaps with Urshifu.

You can put Amoonguss in the Rillaboom slot to handle Farigiraf teams better, Amoonguss is in general nice for protecting Archaludon from Flutter Mane and making Arch really hard to kill, stamina boosts + Pollen Puff goes well.

[vapid cape]

Rilla is there simply to stop Hatt TR or Psyspam teams, and tbf I was considering replacing Basculegion. Thanks for the help! What sort of set is gonna work best for this team on Fmane?

[wild sinew]

I prefer SpA Booster Energy

[trail quarry]

https://pokepast.es/b734fe9756552527 im new and i used resources and what i know about roles ,

latias supposed to be latios my faul^^^

https://pokepast.es/7b2c86576e03892b

updated

[wild sinew]

Are you sure this is the right channel?

Darkrai and Mega Latios are illegal in vgc

Based on Mega and Taunt Landorus, this looks like gen 9 national dex

[trail quarry]

soemone sent me this thread so i came hre

[little apex]

https://pokepast.es/7ce0f77fec63dd02 i also made this team, can someone rate it?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Would unfortunately recommend a sample team. Half of your team is unviable (Hydrapple, DD Gouging Fire, Uxie) and sun is a pretty mid archetype too

[little apex]

is it that bad?

[cerulean totem]

don’t redo the whole spread, it’s fine if you just change the tera. the atl you have with jolly allows you to pick up i can’t remember what but it’s good

[cerulean totem]

most of these sets aren’t the best

and you probably prefer chien pao over bundle

change tera on gambit, item on rilla, item on gambit, give rilla fake out over knock off, give flutter a booster energy set since you’ve removed bundle

[fresh flicker]

Yes

[gritty cove]

hi, can i have a vgc team rated?

reg F

https://pokepast.es/e1e7e31c19fb205c

[dense nebula]

tera flying on gambit, av on rilla, safety goggles on gambit, flutter has booster

[wild sinew]

Most of this is great, the biggest issue would probably be Torkoal. Kind of a sink when you have Tornadus as it's slow, doesn't provide as much damage as you'd like, and you already have sun. Glimmora is a common pick in that slot thanks to Meteor Beam nuking the Fire types that give you a hard time and resisting Extreme Speed for Dragonite Chien Pao.

EVs look fine but would recommend a bulkier Flutter Mane, surviving Chien Pao Ice Spinner is important imo.

[gritty cove]

the idea was to counter better farigiraf trick room

in fact he stops my tornadus for setting sunny day, then i bring chi-yu torkoal and heat wave in sun OHKO farigiraf and common trick room sweepers like ursa bloodmoon

but yeah i had a glimmora before

[wild sinew]

Tera Ghost Chi Yu Flutter Mane lead is a very good option

Heat Wave Moonblast should kill

If they lead Follow me pokemon you can Tera Fairy Dgleam to make up for damage

[gritty cove]

i corrected some spreads and put ursaluna as alternative attacker

https://pokepast.es/acbaf81488e0ddf1

should be better?

[distant stump]

Your much better with glimmora as an alternative attacker here

benefits from speed control much more, great coverage/immediete pressure

etc

[snow bluff]

Is their any improvements/replacements you would make to this team https://pokepast.es/5c09c47317ef83ad

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wanton abyss]

Thanks for sharing! This is pretty solid

Arch is strange on nonhard rain but I don’t hate it

[wild sinew]

Nothing actually

This is fine

[distant stump]

I think you'd like Lando there

[woeful parrot]

Should I use Tera fly acrobatics or Tera rock rock slide sneasler on my psychic terrain team?

[fresh flicker]

https://pokepast.es/707561038a397fac
I'm aware the team is already fine. But I want to improve it further.

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fresh flicker]

I'll explain set reasons after school.

[wild sinew]

When I say fine and I don't need to make any relevant changes, closest I could get would be to give Urshifu Aqua Jet over Ice Spinner and to move 8 SpD EVs to speed so you can outspeed Adamant Scarf Landorus-T.

[woeful parrot]

Guys pls 🙏

Do I need to send a team first or can I just ask the question here

[fresh flicker]

Send the team

It's usually better to rate it that way.

[wild sinew]

Sneasler is unfortunately unviable

[balmy valley]

shoot

https://pokepast.es/648f3c341be94562

[wild sinew]

This is just Moon balance w Ogerpon over Amoonguss

[balmy valley]

tell me how I beat Intim cycle without Ogerpon

trust me I had Amoonguss

moon did nothing

but now it can actually do something

having trouble with Registeel teams

[wild sinew]

Dragon Dance and Urshifu

[balmy valley]

dunno. Maybe I was outplayed, but Moon felt really passive just spamming DD in front of Intim / Parting Shot cycle

[wild sinew]

Main thing is that you couldn't hit their Incin hard enough

[balmy valley]

ye

[wild sinew]

Purpose of Flutter and Urshifu

You could also make your Iron Hands faster if you're finding it especially difficult

[balmy valley]

hmm
and Registeel?

main way I've been getting around it is Perish Song on Flut

but it feels really clunky

[wild sinew]

Amoonguss would help

And Urshifu again ig

[woeful parrot]

Why not?

[woeful parrot]

https://pokepast.es/fd4793fa03b781fe

[acoustic slate]

I could breathe on sneasler and it would explode

[fresh flicker]

@woeful parrot

[acoustic slate]

Honestly

Hear him out on this one

I made an emboar team and I kept getting the same responses

Its not like its a full team if shitmons

Building around 1 bad mon is possible

It’s demoralizing when you ask for advice on a team for one of your favorites only to have the only “advice” be “___________is unviable”

[wild sinew]

Doesn't do anything to make it worth using over a good Pokemon

Pretty frail and doesn't hit as hard as you want it to, just exists.

[wild sinew]

Might be so but that's just competitive advice

[woeful parrot]

could you answer the question at least

even if hes not good i wanna know

[acoustic slate]

Yeah this is going straight back to my previous point

Just saying “x is unviable” and refusing to elaborate

Not really as constructive as someone would think

If it was a team of mostly shitmons it would be understandable

But having 1 shouldn’t be a big deal

[distant stump]

Its possible

Sure

If your trying to have fun

Like you want to build around it and thats your goal/you enjoy it, go for it

Who am I to stop you

But this is a competitive advice forum, thread whatever

[wild sinew]

That's the main thing ^

If you really don't care about winning and intend to mess around with favourites, you don't need me to give you other competitive advice

[distant stump]

You come with the expectation that we will try to make your team the best that it could be, even if that means axing a shitmon

[acoustic slate]

Hmm

[woeful parrot]

can u answer pls

[acoustic slate]

Tera flying acrobatics

[distant stump]

uh

dont

I gues tera flying acro?

[cerulean totem]

personally, i would just make a few minor changes to the ev spreads

eg. -8 SpDef + 8 Spe evs on urshi, more bulk on flutter, -4 SpDef + 4 Def evs on pao

also this is personal preference, but i feel like bolt isn’t as useful as a mon with redirection, such as anoong or ogerpon here. this would change the team structure a decent amount though so don’t do this if you don’t want to

[simple kindle]

can i ask whats the purpose of urshifu here?

trick room psyspam

in what situations should i bring out urshifu in front or in back

[fresh flicker]

Use pokepaste instead of a screenshot.

!pokepaste

[drifting onyx]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
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[simple kindle]

oo okay

https://pokepast.es/0a790cea85520934

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[simple kindle]

im just wondering in what situations can i use urshifu dark here

[wild sinew]

It's a Pokemon that can function outside of Trick room when you can't get it up / adds versatility to what you can lead

[fresh flicker]

I considered Ogerpon, and I added it. But it's Hearthflame for a few reasons. It gives me another Amoongus positive matchup pokemon, however, I found Articuno teams gave me trouble. And Hearthflame matches up incredibly well into it threatening serious offensive pressure.

I made have SD > Follow Me so I could have another pokemon that can take advantage of the Double fake out support.

And plus it was Pao I replaced as it didn't really do much for me.

[wanton abyss]

I think if you’re going for Firepon here, SD + grassy glide allows you to really pressure teams that let you set up

FWIW, I do think Pao is a good addition on a team like that, especially to support the Rilla Shifu Incin combo. Ive been finding that the adamant Tera ghost sets aren’t hitting hard enough anymore. I’ve been looking at stellar sash or tera poison life orb as alternatives

If damage was your concern

[fresh flicker]

It wasn't that Damage was my concern, it never was.

It was the concern of the matchups.

Articuno Snow has been proven to be both powerful and annoying, so Hearthflame was the only Pokémon I found that could handle it.

[ornate cloak]

https://pokepast.es/4fb4d5d9fe30f0b8

Any suggestions on this specific team?

[north tree]

we only deal with fully built teams here, but #comp-general is always there!

[ornate cloak]

Ohk mb

[north tree]

also the smogonvgc discord is a good place

https://discord.gg/qSrPftmz

[ornate cloak]

Oh perfect!

Tysm

[cerulean totem]

even better: Grassy glide SD is my favourite hearthflame set

but i think pao is more useful than shifu here if imma be honest

or if you want to keep fwg that much, you could do it instead of raging bolt since tbh idk what mu is helps into. if you could tell me why you need bolt and not need pao that would be quite helpful

[fresh flicker]

I felt like Bolt HELP the FSW Core in situations where I couldn't bring boom in a bad matchup. Being able to threaten Waters and resist them. Although that reason is probably lacking- For me it also helped that it wasn't a Physical attacker, meaning it isn't affected by Intimidate.

[woeful parrot]

Is Primarina a viable special attacker? On/off trick room

[wild sinew]

Yes, probably works on both

[gilded bay]

finally found a team im going to use
https://pokepast.es/06fc096f3941801c
but of course, I got to get this rated since I made some things in this team such as the Tornadus wearing the sharp beak item and I feel insecure

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

I'm guessing you put the Tornadus over Farigiraf?

[gilded bay]

yeah also that too

[wild sinew]

I don't think it works on this team
Incineroar and Rillaboom hardly care for Tailwind, your Flutter Mane is also Speed Booster.

Urshifu-R Hearthflame are the two that benefit from Tailwind but also benefit from Farigiraf just as much.

[gilded bay]

oh ok that seems fair

should i do throat spray set or just the supportive sitrus berry set

[fresh flicker]

It's Best you use Fari,

That team won the Charlotte regionals with WolfeGlick

https://pokepast.es/b7fb981ef157f4aa

[hallow ether]

https://pokepast.es/d815a34ca301634d good?

[wild sinew]

Sun

[hallow ether]

i aint running snow

[wild sinew]

I hate Torkoal sun but the way you run it is probably utilising Indeedee Trick Room and Eruption

[winter gulch]

hello there

[distant stump]

Do you get pinged every time "Torkoal" or "Sun" is mentioned here

idk how your like so fast to get to any sun discussion lmao

[winter gulch]

I'm pretty sure you want to be more offensive on your mons
Torkoal for example I'd go Eruption fire move Helping Hand Protect with Charcoal
and Flutter would be specs so you can actually kill stuff
You need to go 244 SpA on Wake so you get Proto speed
Don't like the other sets as much either but its fine
Also you probably want TR so you can also abuse Torkoal while you're at it

[winter gulch]

Its a calling

I don't get pinged though

I also hit 1600 on bo3 ladder with it recently so like

[distant stump]

Like

a tingle in your gut lmao

[winter gulch]

74.5% GXE though

[distant stump]

mhh

[lost phoenix]

I like farig on wake bolt sun

Disable rilla glide while not fucking with bolts clap

[distant stump]

single person bo3 results don say much, though it is funny

[wild sinew]

I like non Wake sun ✨️

[winter gulch]

a TR setter is just good with Torkoal

[winter gulch]

I'm pretty sure the only two people in existence actually using this wake sun core is me and marco

[distant stump]

ngl best sun team rn is probs glim ho with sun

[winter gulch]

also sun is on the downswing rn with rain lando I stuff coming back

[distant stump]

idk if thats a good thing or not

[winter gulch]

we just like it

[distant stump]

noin wrong about that

[winter gulch]

you'll always have your couple of people using that "suboptimal" team around here

[distant stump]

I mean

[distant stump]

I use dozogiri

[winter gulch]

I think dozo-giri is fine, particularly the glimm variant

[distant stump]

Its only glim variant

Dozogiri is perfectly playable people just dont want to accept it

I think sun, at least on ladder, is also pretty solid

Though its fun to say its not

[winter gulch]

I swear my MUs suck, but honestly they are probably fine

its just that you have to outplay your opponent whenever they have bolt which is not fun

[winter gulch]

there's just stigma around using it I feel

same with psyspam

[distant stump]

mfw I have to be better than my opponent to win sometimes

sun just feels like its lines are easier to play into

[distant stump]

ye

theres a really high skill cieling with it which is what confuses me, its rly hard to play properly

[winter gulch]

Yeah it feels hard to play with but after a while you figure out people's tendencies or what lines just work

Like I hard lead Torkoal very often and just click Eruption

Their attention is all on the Specs SpA Proto Flutter (rightfully so) which actually opens up Torkoal

Very scary play style though

[distant stump]

Mhh I see. My problem with sun is kinda just my problem with ho in general, its just not that flexible and easier to slow down

[gilded bay]

can i replace fari with amoonguss by any chance?

[fresh flicker]

Unfortunately no.

The thing is the team does multiple things which allows for variety.

Which means you have an advantage.

I honestly don't think the team work best with Amoonguss.

Fari is the center piece of the team, without it. Everything falls out of place.

It works as a trick room team, and a balance team.

Incin, Rillaboom, and Farigiraf all take advantage of Trick room.

Ogerpon, Flutter Mane, Urshifu-R, Inciniroar, and Rillaboom work as a FSW balance core.

And Double Fake Out means you have two pokemon that can deny a turn to a threat. Which means Ogerpon and Flutter Mane have set up opportunities.

And Farigiraf provides speed control for the team. Removing TR if need be.

[gilded bay]

that makes sense

[craggy ivy]

Finding pretty good success with this team, but I’m not doing anything with corv, can I swap him for anything more useful?
https://pokepast.es/0f9bb36c1d942598

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[craggy ivy]

Corv and amoongus really

[acoustic slate]

I’d swap the team

Entirely

[craggy ivy]

Why, what’s wrong with it?

[acoustic slate]

Sand is just not very good in this meta

[spiral shale]

?

sand is perfectly good

[acoustic slate]

Wait what

I’ve literally never encountered it

Ever

In like 1500 ladder and on cart

[craggy ivy]

I’ll admit that it’s not used, I haven’t seen another sand team at all. But I also have been ruining ice and water teams with it

I don’t have any problem with fluttermane, or raging bolt

Only thing I’m finding annoying is amoongus and sometimes ogeporon

[spiral shale]

https://pokepast.es/420087dc360063c2

[acoustic slate]

Damn

[craggy ivy]

Lycanroc, I actually forgot it existed

[spiral shale]

id just use this personally

[craggy ivy]

I’m definitely going to try it, thanks. I might tweak it a little bit to fit my playstyle

Why is everyone running fluttermane ?

[spiral shale]

cause its super strong

[acoustic slate]

Fluttermane does like everything

Very fast, very strong, very big movepool

It’s no slouch on defense either, atleast not on the special side

[craggy ivy]

Gets one tapped by Garchomp iron head

[acoustic slate]

Well yeah 55/55 hp and defense plus getting hit by a se move is gonna do that to a mon

[wild sinew]

It lives unless you Tera Steel actually

Because of its stellar offensive stats, it can afford to put hundreds of EVs into bulk and live the relevant neutral hits.

Flutter Mane is just a great offensive Pokemon with 0 competition, there isn't another good Fairy type and only 1 other Ghost type that can be paired with Flutter Mane anyway.

[acoustic slate]

Idk man, raging bolt is a pretty good fairy type

[craggy ivy]

I always do

Sometimes if I’m feeling risky, I’ll just setup in front of it and wish on a falling star that it doesn’t get one tapped while using sword’s dance

[acoustic slate]

Chomp gonna get dismantled anyway honestly

Flutter outspeeds

[split patio]

https://pokepast.es/8fc15bc6ad59be72 i tried to build a team around goodra and rain (forgive me if its bad)

if u saw the original link to this team ur seeing things

[wild sinew]

Weird no ping

[wild sinew]

Goodra is unfortunately just unviable, way too weak and slow to successfully abuse rain. The bulk is nice but it's a lot harder to succeed purely through it in a double battle.

Kingambit is pretty outclassed by Archaludon as a steel type here, and team is really slow which means you'll have to dedicate to setting up Trick Room, Rain, and only 2 Pokemon to sweep through, even less if you need Incineoar to set up Trick Room.

I'd honestly just recommend the rain sample team

[drifting onyx]

VGC24 Regulation F (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Viability Rankings
• Speed Tiers
• Metagame Discussion Thread
• C&C Reservation Thread
• VGCPastes Repository
• Discord
• Pokémon Showdown! Room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[river thunder]

Should I change anything about this team?https://pokepast.es/52f3ec70fa0636dd

[cerulean totem]

ogerpon hearthflame set isn’t very good here, replace it for a form of speed control, like fairgiraf for trick room or tornadus for tailwind. incineroar really wants knock off over taunt . redo primarina’s evs, and i think clefairy is a bit passive so i would change that to ogerpon hearthflame if you’re running tailwind or rillaboom if you’re going with trick room

[river thunder]

What evs do you recommend for primirina and tornadus?

[cerulean totem]

i’m not sure about primarina, try to hit a good speed benchmark in tailwind. tornadus just go a lot of bulk. for ogerpon don’t run follow me

[distant stump]

Besides Clef and Prim just being generally bad/outclassed, the team structure is pretty not great. Theres no form of speed control, theres not much coverage and like no switch ins to a bunch of common types

I'd probably move this into a tw ho/balance team, so add torn and probs an urshifu form

and switch hearthflame to wogerpon

[river thunder]

Tornadus incarnat or therian?

[distant stump]

Incarnate

[split patio]

i mean, youre not wrong about most of those traits which i can respect but i still do think in some places goodra could shine, its got a somewhat solid ability with sap sipper and it pretty much has all the special bolk you need on a team, its got a great movepool and its got a pretty decent base spA stat. thanks for the advice though :3

[river thunder]

Should I change the evs?

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/14b5782ebb861804 is this team good

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

I don't like Incineroar and Tornadus here, neither benefit from Howl when you already have Amoonguss and Flutter Mane. Incineroar stacks Fire types and Tornadus uses speed control only half the team desires.

Kingambit makes for a great partner to prevent Incineroar from resetting all of your boosts, and the last slot is very flexible.

[narrow dock]

how about rill over incin

or iron hands over incin

[austere wasp]

not bad yea

I would change gouging fire for like chi yu

[wild sinew]

I'd recommend smth more aggressive if you choose to go with Gouging, and smth that doesn't stack 3 Grass types. Chien-Pao, Dragonite, Either Landorus, come to mind as options.

What Aldrich suggested is also an option though I'd highly recommend you make the Incineroar a Raging Bolt or Glimmora

[narrow dock]

What do u mean "stack 3 grass types"

[wild sinew]

You have Waterpon and Amoonguss already

Rillaboom adds a third Grass type

[narrow dock]

So then how about iron hands

https://pokepast.es/cdd47ab27ab9a149 how about this team

[wild sinew]

Looks alright

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/b6dbc52acd6b7abb

Sand + trick room team Ttar is supposed to be flying Tera, exca is fairy, raging is fairy, same for the giraffe and icin is water.

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[austere wasp]

I would recommend high horsepower on the excadrill , the rest looks good!

[topaz edge]

[north tree]

Whatever Aldrich said + psychic instead of helping hand on farigiraf. If you like helping hand a lot don't run a throat spray set.

[topaz edge]

Okie that makes more sense.

[worn turtle]

Looking for rates, and figuring out whether I should have magic guard Reuniclus or gastrodon.

Also should I keep excadrill

[real cedar]

I believe they only rate finished teams sry

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/636ad48adaae9b8a so far so good. got to 1280 with no real issues

vgc reg f as per usual

[night jewel]

Starting to prepare for reg g. Thinking Lunala, Kira, Flutter, Ogre W, Incina and Bolt. Unsure on Incina and Kira, thoughts?

[worn turtle]

The full team with the gastrodon and Reuniclus options

[fresh flicker]

1. Use pokepaste

2. Sand doesn't work, I recommend using sample teams in the the VGC metagame.

In addition, you REALLY need protect on any mons that can hold it.

It's the only form of defensive counterplay you have when you can't switch.

Which is 80% of the time.

AND

Hazards aren't good.

[worn turtle]

Oof

[worn turtle]

I used pokepaste lol

[fresh flicker]

As in the link

Not the image

[wild sinew]

The Garchomp looks incredibly out of place, Farigiraf gives you a Trick Room mode with Ursaluna-B and Torkoal, esp if you put Eruption on it and drop the support set. You already have Incineroar to help set Trick Room too.

Flutter Mane really wants Moonblast over one of your coverage moves, it's 1.5x stronger than Dazzling Gleam so it'll be worth using a lot of the time, picks up crucial kills and Tera Fairy just makes it so Moonblast hits harder than a super effective coverage move.

Magnet is not a very good item on Raging Bolt, AV is ideal to take advantage of its bulk and to not almost auto lose to Flutter Mane when you bring your sun mode. Also lets Incineroar run Safety Goggles and Parting Shot which make its job of getting Bloodmoon in safe easier, you have no spore immunities so Goggles Incineroar is a start.

[dense nebula]

You'd be suprised by how well garchomp works

[wild sinew]

Suggest at least trying Farigiraf

[distant stump]

We dont know Reg G's ruleset yet

[distant stump]

!pokepaste

[drifting onyx]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
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[distant stump]

Check this out

For the team itself, sand as a whole and most of the mons you picked are pretty bad, they are either outclassed by other options (Ex Waterpon being effectively better Gastro) or weak to tons of stuff/not great (Ex Boulder being weak into half the metagame?

[dense nebula]

oki doki

trying it now

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/416cecaffd839829 hows this team

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Looks great, would suggest Substitute on Landorus to take advantage of double redirection and how much pressure most of the team provides.

[narrow dock]

Thata my bad

It was supposed to have substitute

[opaque crag]

Never played vgc any advice welcomed

https://pokepast.es/d27b48e57af8e8de

[wild sinew]

Cresselia Ursaluna looks out of place here, as none of your other Pokemon really benefit from Trick Room and really limits what Pokemon you can bring. Chi-Yu for a stronger sun mode and complete a FWGF core seems ideal.

Then you can go for something like Urshifu, Landorus, or even Glimmora, just an offensive Pokemon to take advantage of Tailwind.

[opaque crag]

Ok so chi-yu maybe I’ll go lando for intimidate you know

[wild sinew]

Recommend Landorus-I but Lando-T works as well

[opaque crag]

Oh why lando I I’ve never used it

[wild sinew]

Just a lot more damage which is better here

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 132 HP / 4 Def / 116 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature

• Earth Power
• Sludge Bomb
• Substitute / Sandsear Storm
• Protect

[opaque crag]

https://pokepast.es/2e0b1e5a41df2ead

Does this look better

[wild sinew]

Forgot to mention but you'll probably want Assault Vest Raging Bolt, won't get turns to set up CM with the limited support

[opaque crag]

https://pokepast.es/633a1d0542931e9a

How’s that

[wild sinew]

Looks fine
Think Booster Flutter Mane with Icy Wind + Specs Chi Yu is preferable now that Booster is available

[drifting onyx]

VGC24 Regulation F (Gen 9)

• Sample Teams
• Viability Rankings
• Speed Tiers
• Metagame Discussion Thread
• C&C Reservation Thread
• VGCPastes Repository
• Discord
• Pokémon Showdown! Room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[wild sinew]

The Dex page will have the moves and EVs you need

[opaque crag]

Ok bet

Thank you

[vapid cape]

https://pokepast.es/dd52bc425bc26a82
Traded out Archaludon for Incin and redid the stat spreads with some specific calcs in mind. Any improvements you could suggest?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[north tree]

Sludge bomb > sludge wave on Lando, tera ghost on incin and potentially tera ghost/steel on torn, the taunt immunity isn't that useful since opposing torn twind is on the decline and you're not super reliant on tailwind anyway

[cerulean totem]

i’d go tera grass on incin, resistances are a lot more useful here imo, tera steel on torn definately if you’re going sitrus, re-do lando evs for more bulk, i would re-do urshi evs too.

[vapid cape]

Yeah I meant to replace wave for bomb, why tera ghost over dragon for Incin and the same for torn?

[vapid cape]

What sort of spread would you suggest for Urshi?

[north tree]

Fake out immunity and a generally decent defensive type for being neutral to most of the metagame

Torn could also run steel tera

[cerulean totem]

44hp, 92spdef, 4 def, then split the rest between speed and attack in amounts that you feel comfortable in.

also consider pixie plate for flutter? not sure if it fits better than booster here, but keep it in mind

[vapid cape]

What is this spread allowing shifu to live

[cerulean totem]

some raging bolt thing prolly i can’t remember

[vapid cape]

Also my Flutter spread guarantees OHKOs on tera water urshifu if I tera fairy, thats why it's built the way it is

[vapid cape]

Thats why Im running Tera Steel

[cerulean totem]

yeah but what about no tera?

[wild sinew]

Moonblast after Tera Water and Freeze Dry

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/dd02f80197dc8b75 hows this team

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[sand minnow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1190735683032207406/1222641740922749081/image.png?ex=6616f4da&is=66047fda&hm=ed71000692841970696baf113b4394ab4f46ee354618347e72da2f12712b0e94&

[burnt surge]

if you have a pokepaste

just send the link

[sand minnow]

I got rid of the link mb

[burnt surge]

Ctrl + H

or just get a new one

[sand minnow]

:((

[burnt surge]

!pokepaste

[drifting onyx]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[burnt surge]

literally just press the button again

[sand minnow]

https://pokepast.es/7663a5872d65a8ef

so like that?

[burnt surge]

ye

[sand minnow]

ok

[burnt surge]

someone will come along and rate

[sand minnow]

ok

[distant stump]

And that person is me

On Semi Trick Room teams like the one that (I assume) your building, you generally dont need more than 1 fake out attacker

Incin functions better in that slot so I recc replacing hands with something else, say Flutter for an offensive piece that generally functions well

It also provides a fighting resist which is nice

[sand minnow]

I got to master ball tier with it

[distant stump]

Then, personally I would replace Gambit with Urshifu, gambits speed tier isen't rly needed and urshifu gives you a strong late game sweeper

[distant stump]

Masterball isen't a great indication of if something is good

[sand minnow]

I don’t wanna replace gambit because it is a huge part of my gameplan. With Tera flying it kills urshifu, ogerpon, then it deals with fluttermane, ferigiraf very well

[distant stump]

Urshifu after tera dark also handles those mons very well

Even without it

Urshifu flutter mane and firepon also murder gambit

[sand minnow]

gambit and flutter get destroyed by gambit while tera

[woeful parrot]

https://pokepast.es/bbc32e83c5bb1ab6

is there anything i need to improve

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/dd02f80197dc8b75 hows this

[distant stump]

I mean, Gambit isen't terrible there but Urshifu just provides more to the team. You dont really have a weakness to Flutter Ogerpon or Urshifu.

[distant stump]

Torn is kinda out of place there, you see it on some tailroom teams but they have more mons to utilize tailwind

Ideally you want Ogerpon-W to help set up trick room easier

[sand minnow]

the only problem is I don't have a dark urshifu

[distant stump]

In game I assume?

[sand minnow]

yea only water

my dark is in sword, but I need pokemon home

[distant stump]

This team is weird, Tornadus and Gouging dont really fit. Gouging really needs booster energy to outspeed stuff like pao and flutter that give it and its teamates trouble, and in general its not doing much as it can only boost gambit with howl.

Tornadus is also not benefiting many mons with Tailwind, maybe Flutter but it doesen't neccesarily need tw

What direction are you trying to take this? More tailwind, or gouging/balance style

[distant stump]

Pokemon home is free

[sand minnow]

you need to pay money to move stuff tho

[distant stump]

You sure?

[sand minnow]

pretty sure

[distant stump]

Idk I dont use home much

[woeful parrot]

Would wellspring over torn work?

I originally used him cuz taunt and tailwind were super useful

[wanton abyss]

Hi thanks for sharing! If you’re using howl gouging fire, having at least 2 howl abusers is recommended

[wanton abyss]

You get one free box with pokemon home, which is only 30 pokemon. You can move them around for free, you just need a Nintendo online membership

So…not free

[woeful parrot]

He don't got trick room tho

[sand minnow]

Which I have ok bet

[sand minnow]

I got my urshifu dark into violet, but why is urshifu dark better than gambit?

[river thunder]

What should I add as a 6th mon to my team? (I don't have swsh) https://pokepast.es/a5488ce9f2a91148

[fresh flicker]

It's more immediately offensively threatening, and doesn't rely on Tera as oftenly, plus Unseen Fist is busted.

And so is Wicked Blow.

[winter gulch]

they do different things

but if you just need something to slap on as a 6th, Kingambit is not it atm

[inner hazel]

https://pokepast.es/ca4171da1467bc7f < For Reg G

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[inner hazel]

myf ian mean for it to ping yall 😭

[wild sinew]

We unfortunately can't rate since we can't say for sure what the meta will be and don't have enough to go off. Advice given could very well be poor.

Also side note but I believe Reg G is more likely to be a single restricted format rather than a double restricted one.

[untold estuary]

Hii I need some help rn so I have a team that has landerous therian yet I lost my legends arceus game and never got to finish it so I don't have access to landerous :c does anyone know of any decent ground pokemon I can use as a replacement that can somewhat do what landerous does well until I find my game again and get em?

Here's the team in question to get a better idea (despite how it looks it's been doing well for me I just need a soft replacement for landerous in game!)

https://pokepast.es/d71490e6c95cecfa

[north tree]

Replace landorus for gallade.

On the other members of the team, put ninetales as torkoal, try to trade for an iron crown which can replace delphox and gouging fire can be replaced by a hatterene. If you need spreads and movesets, just look at the dex ones and if you need explanation for these changes, just ask further.

[untold estuary]

I already said that I'm fine with the rest of the team
Delphox cause it's my favorite pokemon and was my first ever starter. And Ninetales cause torkol makes me feel limited in the amount of attacking pokemon I can have. Ty for the temporary replacement pick however ^^

[north tree]

yeah no problem take what you need from this advice

[river thunder]

Does flutter mane fit this team? https://pokepast.es/a5488ce9f2a91148

@north tree

[north tree]

it would be fine but I think assault vest raging bolt could be better

[wild sinew]

Second the Raging Bolt

Flutter Mane overlaps with Gholdengo and to an extent Landorus a bit

[woeful parrot]

https://pokepast.es/401d4c7b07f38d8a is this okay

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

You have a lot of support and limited ways around Amoonguss, Nasty Plot Gholdengo makes sense in the Flutter Mane slot.

Otherwise great, consider Tera Grass on Incineroar since you have rain

[woeful parrot]

are you saying i should replace fm with gholdengo?
also rain is there cuz ive been going against so many sun teams and it helps a lot

[wild sinew]

Yeah

[woeful parrot]

Why Gholdengo

[wild sinew]

Immune to spore and a set up Ghost type, likes rain nerfing fire moves

[woeful parrot]

is this better?

https://pokepast.es/41f429022b882ada

[wild sinew]

Yes

[woeful parrot]

isnt this literally one of the sample teams

wait a minute

[wild sinew]

Similar

[woeful parrot]

nah they got the same everything 😭 except for different tera on ghold

[wild sinew]

LMAO

That just means you built well

[woeful parrot]

rain dance is only there for going against sun teams
maybe i could replace it back with protect? and put fm back on

[wild sinew]

Rain Dance is fine

[ornate cloak]

This is the team rn

https://pokepast.es/e3184f51c1ffddc0

Although I want to implement Dondozo and Ting Lu on this team, any suggestions?

[drifting onyx]

New [Gen 9] VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[north tree]

Ting Lu and dondozo completely change the team. You would have to strip back incin rilla shifu and bolt.

[ornate cloak]

The thing is, I've seen a couple variants of this team with WaterShifu, Dondozo and Ting Lu

And I've not been able to beat any of them

[north tree]

This team usually revolves around dondozo ting lu gouging fire chien pao dragonite and then a filler

the filler could be urshifu rapid strike, gholdengo, waterpon etc

the playstyle is extremely different than what your team currently is

[ornate cloak]

Yeah..

Although, is there any counter play to Dondozo and Ting Lu?

[north tree]

I believe it originated in japan

[ornate cloak]

Damn

[north tree]

(like everything else lol)

[ornate cloak]

Lol true

[north tree]

the team you're playing rn is a play on "Japan balance"

[ornate cloak]

I mean

The team works for the most part

[north tree]

yep

I would suggest rapid over single shifu btw

[ornate cloak]

It's just, I can't find a way around Dondozo Ting Lu

[ornate cloak]

I was testing with Urshifu-Rapid but uh, let's just say that didn't end well

[north tree]

against the leads of dozo lu rilla and dragonite are good

wood hammers and outrages

[ornate cloak]

Hm

[north tree]

fake out delays a yawn sand tomb cycle

[ornate cloak]

True

[north tree]

the problem begins with gouging

[ornate cloak]

Yeah

[north tree]

which is why japan balance tends to run lando I in the dragonite slot

[ornate cloak]

Like, even if I somehow manage Dondozo Ting Lu, my team is so heavily damaged, I just can't beat Gouging

[ornate cloak]

What if I ran Chi-Yu Lando-I

Instead of Chien-Pao Dragonite

[north tree]

chiyu loves speed control

the teamstyle then makes calm mind bolt and incin outcasts

[ornate cloak]

True

I've left Rillaboom and Incineroar behind in most of my games

I mostly just bring Dnite, Pao, Bolt and Shifu

Which works against everything BUT Dozo Ting Lu

[north tree]

you might want to play hyperoffense then

[ornate cloak]

Probably, since that's kinda my playstyle in singles as well (although idk if that matters)