VGC Rates

[acoustic slate]

Ogerpon water would probably be good since rn the team is super weak to water urshifu + it gives redirection support

[placid bluff]

Very true

[acoustic slate]

Can u pass the flutter ev spread

[placid bluff]

• Ogerpon water is cool

What’re my switch ins looking like?

Like what’s my game start plan

[acoustic slate]

The team isn’t even done calm down

[placid bluff]

I know, I’m just talking about the current first 4

[acoustic slate]

Starting setups depend on the matchup

[chilly jasper]

This is actually a reg e spread so it might be outdated now

[acoustic slate]

You never want to go for the same leads every time

[placid bluff]

Fair enough

[acoustic slate]

Should still be fine, though a bit less speed + more hp and I think it could work

Yeah hold on

[chilly jasper]

If your team has consistent tailwind support yeah I agree

[acoustic slate]

His team is a tr team

[placid bluff]

Trick room centered

[chilly jasper]

Oh

[acoustic slate]

Not mainly tr but with a tr core

[placid bluff]

Yeah

[acoustic slate]

Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Level: 50
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 116 HP / 204 Def / 60 SpA / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Fairy
Timid Nature

• Moonblast
• Shadow Ball
• Dazzling Gleam
• Icy Wind

This could work I think

[chilly jasper]

So booster/pixie plate while running dgleam shadow ball moonblast/trick room and protect/trick room

[placid bluff]

Got giraf for trick room

[chilly jasper]

You don't want a single setter usually

[placid bluff]

Ah okay

[acoustic slate]

I use a single setter and it’s been going fine for me but it’s not a mainly tr team

For hard tr yeah but for teams that have like 1-2 mons that abuse tr 1 setter should be fine I think

https://pokepast.es/4ae2a5d6d801cc5e this is the team rn

[chilly jasper]

Can I see the paste for the team so far?

[placid bluff]

Future sight

[acoustic slate]

Future sight isn’t that good in vgc at all

[chilly jasper]

Hm

[placid bluff]

I was making a reference

[acoustic slate]

Oh I’m stupid

[chilly jasper]

Brute bonnet is interesting

[placid bluff]

Since you posted the paste before they asked

[acoustic slate]

[chilly jasper]

Run bmluna

[placid bluff]

All good

[placid bluff]

?

[chilly jasper]

Blood moon ursaluna

[acoustic slate]

Yeah he wants to use bonnet so I’m building a team with it

[placid bluff]

Ah okay

[acoustic slate]

I love bm Ursa on tr teams

[chilly jasper]

Either specs tera normal or throat spray tera normal

[acoustic slate]

Specs seems like a counterintuitive idea

Like

If you click blood moon then ur just stuck doing nothing next turn

Throat spray would be better here I think

Since Bonnet is already using lorb too

[chilly jasper]

If you specs you hyper voice spam and clear the field every other turn

[acoustic slate]

Same results can be gotten with throat spray + you aren’t locked into a move

[chilly jasper]

Either item is fine
Specs has immediate damage spray has a set up turn

[placid bluff]

Immediate would be better for bonnet

[acoustic slate]

Hmm

[placid bluff]

Puts them in range of sucker/hyper voice killing

[chilly jasper]

So what exactly does bonnet do here?

That amoongus wouldn't

[placid bluff]

Big burst damage

More bulk than amoongus, faster, and has a 127 atk stat

[acoustic slate]

Yeah I’m trying to build around him hitting as hard as possible

Quick tip, very rarely use bonnet outside of tr, if at all

[placid bluff]

Gotcha

[acoustic slate]

He won’t have the speed

[placid bluff]

He’s got good bulk outside of super effective damage

[acoustic slate]

Almost everything hits him for supereffective lol

[placid bluff]

Fair point

[acoustic slate]

In a vacuum yeah bonnet is bulkier but in practice, amongus’ typing makes its bulk better

[placid bluff]

Yeah

[acoustic slate]

Resisting fighting and being neutral to ground is huge

Especially because it’s a poison type neutral to ground

[placid bluff]

I unfortunately don’t have the Tera shards for poison switching rn, but I can do ghost, dark, flying, and steel

[acoustic slate]

You could try going all in on dark with crunch and black glasses

But uhhh

Just use kingambit at that point

[placid bluff]

Lorb still feels better and I like the prio

How about flying?

[acoustic slate]

Hmm

[placid bluff]

Resists fighting and gains a weakness that he previously resisted

Ground immunity

[acoustic slate]

He already resists ground

[placid bluff]

Fair, but now it’s an immunity and he resists one of his big weaknesses

Predict rapid strike close combat, and ohko with seed bomb

As an example

[acoustic slate]

Or

Most common scenario

He u turns out

And you ended up wasting a tera

And now u don’t resist water

[placid bluff]

Sun is already up

The other scenario is I die to close combat

[acoustic slate]

252+ Atk Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Tera Flying Brute Bonnet in Sun on a critical hit: 48-57 (22 - 26.1%) -- approx. 2.6% chance to 4HKO

Actually you might be cooking

[placid bluff]

[acoustic slate]

Actually wait a minute

[placid bluff]

Tera flying is the way to go?

[acoustic slate]

Raging bolt

[placid bluff]

I’m not living against raging bolt regardless

It’s raging bolt

I’d just protect and kill it with something else

[acoustic slate]

I guess, but what are u killing it with

Wait

Flutter

Nvm

[placid bluff]

[acoustic slate]

Alright

Now

The 5th member

I may have mentioned it before

[placid bluff]

28 def bonnet?

[acoustic slate]

But ogerpon wellspring

[placid bluff]

Yes

[acoustic slate]

It was what the premade evs were for bonnet on the showdown calc

[placid bluff]

Ah okay

[acoustic slate]

Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 24 Def / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Ivy Cudgel
• Spiky Shield
• Follow Me
• Horn Leech

[placid bluff]

Damn, found a shiny will ev training

Nice

[acoustic slate]

Nice

You know what’s nicer

[placid bluff]

?

[acoustic slate]

We completed our core

The fire/water/grass core

[placid bluff]

Ooo

[acoustic slate]

Isn’t that neat

[placid bluff]

Indeed

I’m ev training bonnet rn

[acoustic slate]

Now for the final member

[placid bluff]

Yes

[acoustic slate]

I think brian hands could potentially fit here

[placid bluff]

Oooo

Drain punch shenanigans

[acoustic slate]

U already have a fire and dark type so u don’t want incin, you already have a grass so u don’t want rilla

Hands also provides fake out support, has amazing bulk, and works well in trick room

[placid bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-its-all-coming-together-gif-15058130

Now I just need someone to trade me an iron hands

[acoustic slate]

I can help you after I finish dinner

[placid bluff]

Oh nice

Thank you

[acoustic slate]

https://pokepast.es/1f697bee83f7a34d here’s the completed team

Now honestly what I would do now is just take it for a spin on showdown

Hop on the ladder and just experiment

Preferably the bo3 format since you can learn how to choose your leads into certain matchups

So then you can make changes accordingly and not waste resources in game

[placid bluff]

I see I see

Thank you for all of the help

[acoustic slate]

Np

Honestly

I would probably try to get one of the actual raters to rate the team

Since I started vgc like a month ago lol

[placid bluff]

Fair enough

[acoustic slate]

I might get a few things wrong but nothing is noticeably strange rn

[placid bluff]

Not sure how to do that >_>

[placid bluff]

Cool cool 👍

[acoustic slate]

Just post the team in this thread and wait

Like ask how it is or what u can change

While including the paste of course

And if nobody gets to it after (I’d say) a day, just post it again

Or, alternatively, you could use the smogon vgc discord

[placid bluff]

I dm’d you a replay

[viscid siren]

https://pokepast.es/3d59be9e11f7c216

js need tips, ideas and or advice on how i can use this team (like leads, pairings, stuff like that)

[wild sinew]

Entei Chien Pao as a priority spamming duo, can lead either with Wellspring or Raging Bolt to help into Urshifu.

Flutter Mane + Entei/Wellspring is nice to dominate w speed control

Lando + anything is a safe lead as you Intimidate and make progress through u turn

Tho it in general it usually depends on the opponent's team

[analog shell]

thoughts on my team? idk if i wanna keep incin, any ideas for dif mon to replace?

https://pokepast.es/282a378e37550726

[wild sinew]

Incin is fine, bggest change Id make is Archaludon -> NP Gholdengp

great partner for Regidrago as a steel type and appreciates Incin/Waterpon support so it can set up and sweep

oh actually
Amoon/Rilla/Firepon sounds best over Wellsprig to not overlap w Urshifu

[analog shell]

Oh I did more water since it synergizes a bit with rain

Ah

[wild sinew]

!pokepaste

[drifting onyx]

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

[wild sinew]

But anyway

You're wasting EVs on a lot of pokemon, build with level 50 or go to the Regulation F Strategy Dex to make it easier.

Bloodmoon wants Tera Normal / Grass, Ground is the worse type to boost and keeps too many of your weaknesses.

Farigiraf doesn't need mental herb as the primary Taunt user hates Armor Tail, Sitrus, Safety Goggles, and Throat Spray, are the most effective. Calm Mind is also pretty bad and better off as a secondary attack to hit dark types.

Heatran doesn't really fit any better than Incineroar on this team which helps your Trick Room mode and provides more utility.

Make Urshifu Tera Dark to boost both of your dark type moves, Stellar is an option too. Sash Urshifu needs Protect over Poison Jab to preserve it vs Fake Out and Flutter Mane.

Tornadus-T is just better off as standard Tornadus or Icy Wind Flutter Mane here, better speed control to help your fast mode and do more damage.

[analog shell]

https://pokepast.es/3643ce0c5d2ddd61 what would some good teamates for this team(if chien or urshi dont work, feel free to change 1 of em)

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

unfortunately we only rate completed teams, one of the comp general channels or the VGC discord are better for this

[analog shell]

ah

[analog shell]

https://pokepast.es/29fe3c67209d8867 alright i added a few other mons i think could work? any suggestions or changes that would improve it?

[cerulean totem]

i’m not an official rater but i’ve been doing vgc since like 2016 and am quite experienced so i’d like to give some feedback @acoustic slate and @placid bluff

first, condiser throat spray for farigiraf, it adds a lot of offense and it won a big tournament just now and it was dealing a lot of damage; drop dazzling gleam for hyper voice (it’s good stab anyway)

and frankly, iron hands is quite bad into the current meta, just gets intimidate cycled without clear amulet and instadropped without assault vest. i’d reccomend completely dropping it for something else

ogerpon’s EVs aren’t optimal, just tweak them a bit

tweak farigiraf once you’re at it, slightly more spatk needed for the throat spray variant

removing iron hands opens up a slot for either another TR mon or possibly incineroar, as most mons here would really like intimidate and fake out support, as well as incin being slow enough to abuse tr. since fari doesn’t have sitris anymore, give incin the sitrus berry, with fake out, parting shot, flare blitz and knock off

i mean feel free to do anything but that’s my thoughts

oh and tera grass incin for surviving hits and amoonguss

[mental canopy]

@wild sinew It is better now? https://pokepast.es/13951b19a6312a0a

I forgot about Ursaluna's EVs

then I change

[wild sinew]

Speed Booster Energy on Flutter Mane

For EVs and Incineroar set: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/vgc24-regulation-f/

[mental canopy]

Thanks

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/2fe5f67aef51cd21 vgc reg f TR

[placid bluff]

Thank you very much for the feedback! Any comments on the Brawnnet build?

[north tree]

• Leftovers on Farigiraf is not valuable, run sitrus berry and give raging bolt booster energy or magnet. Raging bolt's good tera types include Fairy, Electric or grass, they are also neutral into most of the metagame but have the added advantage of actually resisting some attacks.

• Kingambit should run tera dark or a defensive tera like Fairy or Poison, same logic as with raging bolt, you now resist quite a few types. Also put sucker punch on the set, whether it be over Iron Head or even Protect.

[cerulean totem]

brawnnet?

[placid bluff]

Brute bonnet

[cerulean totem]

oh yeah

icl it’s not the best but if you want to use it the set seems good

[placid bluff]

Any suggestions or comments on the moveset?

[cerulean totem]

spore and suckerpunch are a must

so is protect

and you want a grass move, either bullet seed or seed bomb

[placid bluff]

Oh nice

[cerulean totem]

but yeah seed bomb is better because it does free up the item

[placid bluff]

Lorb SP goes crazy

[cerulean totem]

tera poison is good, resists bug and flutter and takes neutral from hella others

[cerulean totem]

yeah i can imagine

[placid bluff]

I was wanting to do flying, resists fighting and becomes immune to ground

[cerulean totem]

flying isn’t as good, is neutral to FM plus isn’t as good defensively

[placid bluff]

Fair enough

[cerulean totem]

i’d personally run more spatk on FM

i’ll send a spread

[placid bluff]

Thank you (:

[cerulean totem]

Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 204 Def / 132 SpA / 36 SpD / 20 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Dazzling Gleam
• Moonblast
• Icy Wind
• Shadow Ball

a lot of special attack, but you still get proto speed bost

if you want to go icy wind to slow things for oger too

[placid bluff]

If I had to choose between ghost, flying and steel for the tera (I’m out of poison shards)
Which would be best?

[placid bluff]

It’s a tr team so idk if that’s the best

[cerulean totem]

mmmmmm i’d still grind for the poison, but probably flying or steel. steel is the best defensively and resists fairy but overlaps fire weakness

[placid bluff]

Yeah

[cerulean totem]

no, you want an outside of trick room threat

[placid bluff]

Gotcha

[cerulean totem]

you have enough trick room pokemon you need someone that can outspeed and KO outside of TR

[placid bluff]

Good point

[cerulean totem]

one of my favourite teams OAT is one my friend made which was hard TR caly-ice, amoonguss, mimikyu and lunala all that shit but then he had a menacing regieleki

that regi would solo games against me

even tho it was a TR team

it’s the same thought process here

[placid bluff]

I see

Hmm

[cerulean totem]

hope i helped

[placid bluff]

You definitely did, I’ve got stuff to think about

I’m glad the Brawnnet set looks good

[cerulean totem]

honestly, if you disagree with anything anyone says, go your way

it is your team after all

[placid bluff]

Yeah, but I am very new and I enjoy learning perspectives and stuff

I was kinda thinking of having brawnnet wall Urshifu/K.O.

Hence the flying

Even if it goes for the crit move it doesn’t kill

[cerulean totem]

hey, if you ever need help with anything just ping/dm

[placid bluff]

and then it’s a free seed bomb or spore

[placid bluff]

Will do, thank you very much

[cerulean totem]

mmmm yeah steel overlaps on fighting weakness as well

maybe flying may be the play

ghost is still probably better

ghost means you are immune to fake out and espeed

[placid bluff]

True but in that case I’d typically just protect on takeout

Fake out*

[cerulean totem]

yeah but it’s always an option

[placid bluff]

Fair enough

Just, FM shadow ball

[cerulean totem]

FM moonblast is more threatening tbh

which is why poison is the best

but given you can’t do poison then idk

poison is by far the best

[placid bluff]

I see, gotcha

Just going off what I’ve seen be spammed

[analog shell]

https://pokepast.es/29fe3c67209d8867 thoughts on this team?

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fair marlin]

So in this lineup what should be my “go-to/default” choice of 4 in VGC doubles?

https://pokepast.es/803e3839c5fc81af

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[chilly jasper]

This looks fairy decent

[fair marlin]

It hasn’t been doing well

[chilly jasper]

Though archaludon usually does a bit better on pelliper rain it can work here, but ogerpon might be best switched out

First thing I noticed was arch isn't a/v

[fair marlin]

Showdown won’t save the AV

[chilly jasper]

Which greatly hinders arch doing the thing it does best, being FAT

[fair marlin]

I keep changing it to that but it keeps changing it back

Tbh I’m not really enjoying this team either

[chilly jasper]

Looks like it'd also struggle against anything that has raging bolt

How experienced are you with the tier? The team isn't perfect but it isn't bad, are you just having trouble piloting?

[fair marlin]

More like just having a bad time altogether

I didn’t want people to feel bad helping me get this team together then dumping it but it hasn’t been working out

[chilly jasper]

Few changes id also make, urshifu should use the mystical water set and ogerpon wants to be rillaboom tbh

[fair marlin]

I’m not using Rilla

That didn’t go well either

[chilly jasper]

Maybe you should try psyspam?

[fair marlin]

Honestly I’m just gonna go BSS, VGC just hasn’t been working out

[chilly jasper]

It's pretty easy to pilot and the core can be slapped onto basically anything

Fair enough

[fair marlin]

What is psyspam?

[chilly jasper]

RN it's a core of iron crown and Indeedee f

[fair marlin]

That’s another problem for me, it took the others ages to get me to use Flutter Mane

[chilly jasper]

Here is my psyspam

https://pokepast.es/cac4faecdeef7df0

[fair marlin]

And I hate that paradox a TON

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[chilly jasper]

It's kinda strange because I use weird sets personally but it's really good once you learn how to pilot it

[fair marlin]

The thing is I’ve never been a fan of Paradox Pokémon, but Iron Treads is the first one I actually started warming up to

[chilly jasper]

Personally I think how much you like a pokemon shouldn't impact a decision to use it in a competitive setting

[fair marlin]

A big thing for me is if I like the Pokemon

[fair marlin]

If I don’t like a pokemon it becomes difficult for me to wanna use it

[chilly jasper]

The people who win using pokemon they like are insanely good players

[fair marlin]

I’m hardwired like that

[chilly jasper]

You gotta run with the meta to get the experience to do your own thing

[fair marlin]

I don’t like Flutter Mane

That’s all there is to it

I don’t like paradoxes in general

Iron Treads is the only one I remotely like

[chilly jasper]

Hard to make a team without a single one of them

Since a LOT of them are crazy strong

I loved paradoxes myself, such a diverse influx of new, powerful pokemon is exciting

[fair marlin]

I don’t like them because of how they basically say “use us or bust”

Tbh I think the others were right, BSS ranked might be best for me @chilly jasper

[chilly jasper]

Be careful flutter is still one of the best pokemon there too

[fair marlin]

It can be beat with certain pokemon

Some choice scarf users can beat it

[acoustic slate]

https://pokepast.es/9a595a0dd7f1241e made this team with urshifu dark in mind, any opinions on it?

[cerulean totem]

Firstly, urshi-dark really needs to be sash rn

Too many flutters

Run bulk on flutter mane, my go to number is usually 116 hp and 204 def but others work too

also entei wants a bit more bulk imo

And booster speed flutter really wants protect so drop dazzling gleam for it

[acoustic slate]

If shifu gets sash then what item do I put on chien

[cerulean totem]

Go scarf urshifu-rapid then

[acoustic slate]

Life orb?

[cerulean totem]

Good point

No it’s gotta be scarf

Maybe even on urshi-dark

To get the outspeeds and KOs because otherwise it just can’t it gets dropped

[acoustic slate]

Cause I made the team specifically around urshi dark

[slate echo]

https://pokepast.es/112e74632487c41c, any suggestions for this team? It feels really solid and haven’t came up against anything that seems hard to beat. Just want some advice on Tera possible spread changes

But if you see any glaring flaws I haven’t noticed please let me know

[slate echo]

Gouging fire is now Tera water and rilla is poison

[wild sinew]

Urshifu + Chien Pao is just a hard combo to pilot. Rillaboom, Glimmora, Landorus, Landorus-T, are stuff to consider in the Urshifu slot.

Flutter Mane is better off with a bulkier Special Attack boosting set as you already have speed control. Protect is mandatory and should be over Icy Wind.

Entei prefers bulk over speed, esp on Tailwind.

24 is wasting EVs on Ogerpon, should be 20 and 4 in SpD.

[wild sinew]

I think team synergy is just a little awkward

Ogerpon-W seems like it supports Farigiraf and better synergises with Gouging Fire. Basculegion is an iffy Pokemon right now in general. Rillaboom kind of overlaps with Iron Hands and I'd consider Kingambit or Chien-Pao to keep a good Psyspam matchup, Iron Crown kind of folds through you.

As for EVs, biggest recommendation is dropping the hp/def and some SpD for more speed, outspeeding Incineroar and hitting with Drain Punch is huge. As well as dropping the attack on Gouging Fire to get the speed boost, being able to click Howl for stuff like Wellspring before they move is big, Helping reset Intimidate drops and allowing for otherwise impossible OHKOs.

[slate echo]

yeah, makes sense. I usually can beat iron crown but it takes a lot of reads and relying on dasculigion

like it works but is kinda feel forced same with rilla, so will 100% do those changes

[wild sinew]

Good luck!

[ornate cloak]

https://pokepast.es/c8ac365f6d8009d4

I tried creating Perish Trap (although I think it sucks)

[wild sinew]

Perish is just not good unfort

if you do Id suggest using a trick room mode w Gothitelle

[lost phoenix]

https://pokepast.es/e55662510176272c

@wild sinew

originally had heatran last but that felt soooo weak to entei pao

also oops

forgot to make harc av

[wild sinew]

ooh

I dont like Urshifu here, overlap w Gambit and the team doesn't seem like it can support CB well.

[slate echo]

maybe hands?

because it adds fakeout support to get up tailwinds

Also tera blast instead of head smash plus tera fairy

[lost phoenix]

i need tera grass here

not every game against amoong i can bring wellspring

[slate echo]

tera grass hands

lati also works

[lost phoenix]

ursh here was to overwhelm hands with dark attacks, maybe band was a bit too ambitious tho

[wild sinew]

could go something simpler like Lando

[lost phoenix]

maybe yeah

honestly i have wanted to use bando for a bit

[slate echo]

yeah bulky scarf lando would be nice here

[lost phoenix]

this might be the place

or i could just use scarf

[wild sinew]

yeah either Lando form works.

[lost phoenix]

im gonna try bando for fun but ill prob keep scarf

[slate echo]

I would say lando T

Kinda curious how do you beat psyspam and trick room?

[lost phoenix]

tera wellspring, sd gambit, av harc, if its hatt psyspam i even have spa booster flutt

bando would also help vs psyspam here esp vs spatk booster crown

[slate echo]

yeah makes sense

didn't realise it was sd

[modest wave]

anyone able to rate my Team? I think my biggest weakness WAS before with Electrivire Urshifu Rapid/unseen https://pokepast.es/52886dce41bf3eb0

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fresh flicker]

This team is how do I put this lightly..?

Very mediocre.

[modest wave]

well I try to refrain from only using meta mons

[fresh flicker]

The reason why they are meta is because they provide consistency.

[modest wave]

Since Stuff like Fluttermane, Urshifu and such are highly used I try to refrain from using them since I find no fun in that if that makes sense?

[lost phoenix]

good news is that half of ur team is viable

the bad news is that the other half isnt

and they all have uh

[fresh flicker]

True.

[lost phoenix]

questionable sets

[fresh flicker]

Also true

[modest wave]

Im guessing the viable ones are Ting-lu Farigiraf, Ogerpon?

[lost phoenix]

farig ogerpon gouging fire

ting lu is bad

[fresh flicker]

Because of Urshifu-R ting has fallen.

[modest wave]

Ah

[fresh flicker]

Having a type advantage.

[modest wave]

So I guess change out Ting for smth else,

[fresh flicker]

I think Lando does a bit of justice here.

[modest wave]

Landorus?

Incarnate or Therian?

[fresh flicker]

Therian.

[modest wave]

okay Ill use him then

[fresh flicker]

But first allow me to ask

What was the idea for the team?

Other then not use meta mons.

Or the CENTRAL ones.

[modest wave]

Im trying to go an Off meta Counter Route, basically having a broad perspective and being able to go against many meta mons

I for example picked Triple arrow Deci, For its 3 applications/effects

since they are Interesting to be fair

[fresh flicker]

Deci does really do anything.

[modest wave]

Gouging fire I picked well cause he looks Interesting and his Attack Burning Bulwark seemed Interesting but useless against Urshifu at this point

[fresh flicker]

It's too slow and that's a hindrance.

I think what we COULD do is make Fari and Gouging support.

[modest wave]

I dont mind Switching Mons out, I mean Goodra-Hisui seems good with Acid Armor + Shell armor and it's high stats

also I wanna say this, not as an excuse but as a probable mistake of mine

I took these from just google the first Comp setup i found

like Fari's moveset and Ting-lu, also im down for pretty much most changes

[fresh flicker]

https://pokepast.es/e3d53262f71aa437 to start, these sets allow for Waterpon to be a offensive threat.

I forgot to switch psychic for helping hand as that helps.

[lost phoenix]

gfire gets heat crash, prob use that

[fresh flicker]

Slapping in Amoongus makes it hard for shifu to hit its allies and Flutter doesn't really like it either.

[lost phoenix]

this is fine altho i like encore waterpon here

[modest wave]

so Replace one with Amoogus

Goodra or Deci which should I switch out right now?

[fresh flicker]

The 3 that aren't here need to go.

[modest wave]

So landorus, Decidueye and Goodra

gone

ok

[fresh flicker]

Wait right. Keep the lando.

[modest wave]

okay

so my 2 hisuians are going

[lost phoenix]

i would go with lando torn urshifu-s as last three if you want the best results

with imprison on farig

[fresh flicker]

They said they didn't want Urshifu.

[modest wave]

idk, I dont usually wanna go into Fights and use Only Meta mons, Yes they are META for a reason, but it just feels wrong for me

Urshifu and Fluttermane are seen everywhere

90% of teams use them

[lost phoenix]

urshifu isnt that popular anymore

[modest wave]

Look at the last VGC battle

Urshifu was in every top 8 team

[lost phoenix]

recently in day 2 urshifu-s was 20% usage and urshifu-r was 10% usage

[modest wave]

I've till today have fought 3 teams without Urshifu in them either im Unlucky or idk

[fresh flicker]

Raging bolt is also good here I think.

[modest wave]

I had Goodra Hisui in cause Its Defensive Stats seem insane, Combined with Acid Armor, and Body Press it seemed good but there are better mons

[fresh flicker]

https://pokepast.es/0caaa0b46514b67c

And here's the final result.

[modest wave]

So Im using a team that is seen a lot of usage if im correct? or has on its own a decent usage %

but I mean they are used a lot for a reason

[fresh flicker]

All these mons are good and have seen usage.

Technically also meta mons.

If you want to you can also replace Lando with clear amulet hands.

Being able to threaten both shifu and flutter.

While also ignoring Stat drops from incin.

[modest wave]

nah

[placid bluff]

https://pokepast.es/0a1ace1c44ef028a

[modest wave]

Ig I'll try this team, but also wait for the Reglement to open up because its way to tight, Only certain few Mons are up there to be Decent/good

[placid bluff]

Current team, I’m wanting to change the farigaraf and jugulis out

But idk what to replace them with

[modest wave]

I got a question, Why Choice Scarf Landorus? I mean if its locked into the wrong move then what?

[fresh flicker]

It's meant to spam rock slide or pick up KO's

[modest wave]

ok

[acoustic slate]

Is there another mon I could replace? I made the team with urshifu dark in mind. If I can’t, I don’t mind switching it out.

[wild sinew]

Make Chien Pao Entei Chi Yu Glimmora

[acoustic slate]

Do I make glimmora the av set or the meteor beam set

[wild sinew]

Meteor Beam

[acoustic slate]

Alright

Ty

[fresh flicker]

Actually that info is actually wrong.

It's still VERY good.

Players are just using pokemon that beat it 1v1.

However the one who won the tournament was STILL using one.

It's like mega kanga

If you don't have it.

You must have a very good counter to it.

[lost phoenix]

it isnt that popular compared to it like 2 or 3 weeks ago

never said it fell off in viability

it just isnt used as much as it was,

[modest wave]

I mean look at Liverpool VGC

I think it was Liverpool

[wild sinew]

Vgc might not be it then
There are teams that don't use Flutter Mane or Urshifu but still stick to very meta Pokemon.

Or well, at least not it if you're looking to play competitively. You won't really need competitive advice if all you're looking for is fun.

[narrow dock]

hows this team

[wild sinew]

Incineroar overlaps with Landorus and 2 supportive fire types don't really take enough advantage of sun.

I recommend Entei over Incineroar to form a strong duo with Chien-Pao.

And Raging Bolt sounds best over Gouging Fire.

[modest wave]

I am trying to get Competetive, but there has to be other ones than meta mons I mean what is the fun in competing then? if everything is the same?

[wild sinew]

Well, there are several viable pokemon, so I'm not sure you can really call it the same. But almost everything has been figured out, if something isn't meta or seeing usage, that's probably because it's not good.

[modest wave]

Well thing is, All I see right now is Fluttermane, Incineroar, Urshifu

How is that a lot of fun playing the same 3 that mostly everyone has atleast 1 in their team, and uses the almost same way?

[wild sinew]

Liverpool T16

[modest wave]

how is it not much more fun to let people use Smth like Hisuian Goodra or Smth like Garchomp and such I mean isn't it more fun if theres much more thats viable?

[wild sinew]

Because they want to win, that simple.

Competitive in general will always have a meta and people will stick to it for success.

[modest wave]

Yes Winning is fun but isnt a bigger Variaty something that would be awesome?

like For example Neutralizing Gas Wheezing

[wild sinew]

If you like that, good for you, but you can't really force it to be good.

[modest wave]

Yes you cant but you can try and make it work or am I wrong?

I mean I dont fully go out of meta

but I have a few meta mons and 1 Non Meta

my current non meta is Hisuian Shiny Goodra

[wild sinew]

Depends what you mean by make it work

It'll be sub optimal and when I'm giving competitive advice I'll ask you to change it, but you can do well enough on ladder, you'll just do better if you didn't use the pokemon.

Goodra's issue rn is being outclassed by Registeel.

[modest wave]

wyhats so much better on registeel?

[wild sinew]

Both run Iron Defense Body Press, Registeel has 50 more defense, and resists Flutter Mane's Fairy STAB.

Clear Body means you can kill Flutter Mane without worrying about intimidate but I'd say Shell Armor is just as good

[modest wave]

so Basically if smth has better stats its better?

[wild sinew]

Not always but yeah

[modest wave]

a bit sad but yea thats the thing ;/ so Ig smth has to buff them to make them better?

[wild sinew]

Yeah

[modest wave]

Also I mean I play hisu goodra with acid armor body press heavy slam and life dew + left overs with water terra

Which seems okay?

But honestly now I'm curious bout registeel

[narrow dock]

wouldnt dragonite be better

[wild sinew]

Entei is better here as Sacred Fire is a broken move boosted by Sun

[acoustic slate]

https://pokepast.es/cd31f28089994908 what are the different leads I can generally use with this team? I feel like a majority of my losses so far are from me leading wrong.

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[junior magnet]

https://pokepast.es/ba5769e47cb25640

No EVs yet

[wild sinew]

Tornadus Urshifu/Glimmora/Chi-Yu, Flutter Mane Chi-Yu, Wellspring Chi-Yu, Flutter Mane Glimmora. Depends on the opponent's team

[distant stump]

This team is built around fast offensive pressure, wellspring and urshifu generally dont want to be led as they allow your opponent to manuvere and get into position

I would say

Glimmora / Urshifu + Tornadus
Chi Yu + Flutter

Are your main combos

[gilded bay]

https://pokepast.es/c62b889a1e45b681 im not sure about the pokemon im using, plus the EV’s i added seems wrong

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[north tree]

The pokemon themselves look alright, booster speed icy wind flutter mane is not the best considering nothing but potentially dengo benefits (ursh already has scarf).

If you're set on AV hands, you can either turn flutter mane into a tera grass calm mind booster speed set and give gholdengo life orb and nasty plot protect shadow ball make it rain with tera fairy or change flutter to bulky specs and give gholdengo leftovers.

You could also go clear amulet Iron Hands, ursaluna bloodmoon > gholdengo and specs flutter over booster.

You can get some ev spreads off of smogon dex, nothing wrong with stealing them.

[fresh flicker]

Inciniroar is a MUCH better Intimidateor

Inciniroar also provides more then just intim.

It can pivot with Parting shot and deny one opposing mon with fake out.

And it also provides burst damage with Flare Blitz

[wanton abyss]

You’re using too many mediocre mons

[fresh flicker]

Also I recommend using the Kanto version of weezing

[wanton abyss]

One is fine

Two is debatable

Three is unviable

Pick one between weezing, scizor, and Taurus

[wild sinew]

Vgc is cruel yeah

[narrow dock]

I might be late to this

But I think I found farigiraf's counter

Tinkaton @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpD
Adamant Nature

• Fake Out
• Gigaton Hammer
• Play Rough
• Thunder Wave

[fresh flicker]

To use something just to counter one mon is quite bad.

[narrow dock]

It's the only mon that has mold breaker and fake out

[fresh flicker]

Inciniroar is better because it provides more to the table.

And besides it can just knock off.

[narrow dock]

Knock Off isn't gonna stop farig from setting Tr

[fresh flicker]

Incin also has a wide movepool

Useful for its support.

[narrow dock]

And only 4 moves that people use

[fresh flicker]

It can mix and match to your teams needs.

[narrow dock]

When is the last time u saw an incineroar with darkest larriet

[fresh flicker]

Just recently.

Open team sheets is a blessing. TvT

But the point is.

[narrow dock]

Then how about paring them together

[fresh flicker]

Tinkaton doesn't do much if anything at all.

It's too weak, too frail, and the niche it has is overshadowed or outclassed by in a wider perspective.

It's like Garchomp v. Flygon in singles.

Flygon has things Garchomp wants

But it's STILL outclassed because Garchomp has more to bring to the table.

That 102 speed is crucial to outspeed base 100's

And while inciniroar would love to ignore armor tail

It STILL outclasses tink.

It has parting shot to pivot, Intimidate to lower enemy attack, and snarl to lower offense from the opponent even further.

And the things Tink and incin do share

Tink is STILL outclassed.

Incins fire typing is great offensive and defensive typing

And it's Dark typing prevents Taunt, something tink can't do.

So it's parting Shot will go UNDENIED.

This also allows it to go for Wisp, Taunt, or Helping Hand more effectively because it can't be denied by Prankster taunt

That also leaves one thing BULK.

Inciniroar has much more bulk, allowing it to come in and out many times as it needs to in a game.

It came come in, do something, and switch out for later or stay in.

Tinkaton can't get out because and CAN'T take a hit at all

And even if it were, it's physical defense and HP force it to take a billion damage.

@narrow dock did you get all that?

[hidden path]

.

]

[tropic tinsel]

https://pokepast.es/1aab5bc741036e68

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tropic tinsel]

I used to run this in vgc22 (with a couple of changes, duh)

Namely king>yve & tork>don

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/52d870b169294c5f

[fresh flicker]

Shifu, Flutter and Torn could use more optimal EV spreads, and

Dazzling > Icy

Also Tera grass > ghost on incin

And if you want to avoid Fake Out flinching torn, covert cloak is a good option.

[cerulean totem]

a fellow grass enjoyer i see

although ghost is good as well

interesting sets

[fresh flicker]

In the most part I use Tera water. But grass is also a good typing.

[cerulean totem]

not a tera grass believer 😭

water is good too

[narrow dock]

What about chien > rill

[wild sinew]

Tera Grass / Water Incineroar is generally preferred on Sitrus sets, Surging resist is amazing and the spore immunity can be helpful.

Rillaboom needs Wood Hammer, its more viable than Glide tbh. You want to replace HHP as you have Landorus and Wood Hammer is required for OHKOs on stuff like Flutter and Urshifu

Flutter Mane wants Dazzling Gleam over Icy Wind as its a SpA Booster spread

Landorus needs Earth Power over Substitute, consistent accuracy and single target power make it far too valuable.

As previously mentioned, EVs need work, look at Smogon's Strategy Dex as a guide.

[spiral shale]

chiyu set is fine, im assuming the evs do something

Torkoal should be a heat wave eruption solar beam protect set

id make incineroar a lando-t, you dont need more fire/dark types and incin is more of a balance mon, and the ground coverage is nice for rbolt. i think scarf tera blast flying would be best here.

torn should be covert cloak with sunny day over protect, and use smogdex evs.

a specs flutter would be really nice here, but without gambit youre too weak to flutter, so id have to get rid of lillikoal

[narrow dock]

https://pokepast.es/ec088fb5a5e87a05

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[narrow dock]

Hows this

[spiral shale]

yeah this looks fine

[wild sinew]

mhm

[dense nebula]

Alright, what do i need to replace lol https://pokepast.es/384a5626ddc343db

[hollow fable]

Def Evs and probably Tera blast on cha

Not a fan of Tera electric gambit and safety goggles on it

Electric doesn’t help gambit

[wild sinew]

I think team is in general a bit too defensive

Dondozo teams are usually Hyper Offensive because when you bring Dozo, you have limited room for switching, and you want to try and destroy the opponent's formation as much as possible so it's easier for Dondozo to clean up.

[tropic tinsel]

HP EVs for Lorb

https://pokepast.es/02653d845b1518e9

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tropic tinsel]

Shit, didn't mean to trigger chatot

[wild sinew]

70/186 is wasting EVs
68/188 makes you one point faster and keeps hp

[tropic tinsel]

So smth like this tho, right?

[tropic tinsel]

Ok

Ty

[wild sinew]

Though I also think Lorb Chi Yu is one of the biggest 252 / 252 Pokemon, you're not going to last long enough on the field for 1 extra point of Lorb recoil to matter much.

[tropic tinsel]

Fair

[dense nebula]

I find tera electric is more defensive than flying

[dense nebula]

Ok

So ditch intimidate?

[wild sinew]

Yeah

Think of fast offensive combinations

Or a slower core that doesn't need to switch, usually worth it when there's a Glimmora

[dense nebula]

Gotcha

[dense nebula]

Choice band on dozo, lorb on kingabit with sp

[wild sinew]

your Dondozo set is fine, you just run stuff like Chien Pao Dragonite, Flutter Mane Chi Yu, Tornadus Urshifu, etc with Dondozo teams rather than pivot heavy Pokemon like Incineroar or Sinistcha

[dense nebula]

Ohh ok

I have both dnite and chien pao

[dense nebula]

Sinistcha cures status effects right

[wild sinew]

It doesn't

[dense nebula]

Could of sworn its ability or a move healed and cured status

I might just be crazy

[wild sinew]

You must've mistook it with Lunar Blessing

[dense nebula]

Ohhh

yup

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/5aaaed8a787d66dd this better @wild sinew

[wild sinew]

Yeah, probably something faster over Bloodmoon as you lack speed control, Tornadus and Flutter Mane are great options.

[dense nebula]

maybe invest some bulk and use a triage comfey?

or instead of bloodmoon i could use landorus

[dense nebula]

didnt see the last part. ill use flutter

i could also get raging bolt instead of chien pao

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/5a6ddfb6b0890904

[frank hazel]

https://pokepast.es/be7f93014b283ac7

Ting lu fissure spam. Amoongus with effect spore helps counter surging strikes.

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[dense nebula]

@wild sinew did some more messing around with the team idea. https://pokepast.es/243cd9f9f5264977 this look better?

[tulip totem]

Regenerator is by far the best ability on amoong, if you really want to punish surging strikes you could run a Rocky hemet over the sitrus berry, regenerator would give you more healing in the long run anyways

[dense nebula]

not neccesarily

[cerulean totem]

regen is the only valid ability

idc how many surging strikes

just go flame body volc with tera drag/water at that point

[dense nebula]

how often are you swapping in and out of amoongus in vgc

maybe twice

[wild sinew]

Effect spore isn't just worse, it's detrimental

I.e Urshifu spams you and gets poisoned just when you were about to spore and take it out of commission

I'll take a better look at both teams soon

[spiral shale]

i think glimm>dnite would be good here

glimmdozo is a classic combo and the new mbeam set pairs well with torn

[wild sinew]

That ^ or Pao > Gambit for more consistent duos

[wild sinew]

I know it's built around Ting Lu but it's the weak link here

[dense nebula]

ill get pao ig

[spiral shale]

just run regen helmet over sitrus effect spore

[spiral shale]

feels a little weak to tr psyspam imo but probably works

[dense nebula]

sash or scarf pao

[wild sinew]

Sash is the only good set

[wild sinew]

Probably
Think that's what you'd spam Dozo for

[dense nebula]

alrighty

wasnt sure if it was viable as a revenge killer with scarf

[wild sinew]

It's fast enough and revenge killers don't really exist in vgc, notably because of the partner

[dense nebula]

So lead with dragonite x chien pao or dondozo tatsu?

[wild sinew]

The former or your other duo usually, Dondozo Tatsugiri is incredible clean up and it can be problematic when running into a bad lead matchup as you can't switch out.

[dense nebula]

Ah

So dondozi chien/torn?

Dondozo*

[dense nebula]

https://pokepast.es/07b5b1f9d1687223 updated team

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[ornate cloak]

Tryna build a psyspam team but I'm 99% sure it sucks

https://pokepast.es/22aeb09d20594b59

[wild sinew]

This is fine, I recommend a stronger Dragonite, faster Flutter Mane, and 4 Def rather than 4 SpD on Chien Pao though. Happy to explain anything you're unsure about.

[wild sinew]

Delphox just kinda sucks, Tornadus makes a duo with Urshifu and synergises pretty well with the archetype.

Incineroar Annihilape just lack synergy with the rest of the team, which aims to be hyper offensive. Incineroar hates Psychic Terrain and can't abuse Tailwind, your Pokemon are also not bulky so pivoting in and out can get inconvenient. A more offensive Fire type like Ogerpon/Chi-Yu or Landorus work great.

Annihilape on the other hand is slow and needs to set up which your team can't support, better off as a Flutter Mane which can work on pretty much every Pokemon.

Choice Scarf Urshifu is better off with Psychic Terrain stuff, abusing the priority immunity.

[ornate cloak]

Okay understood

[dense nebula]

Some explimation on swap in pairs would be nice

[wild sinew]

Wdym

[dense nebula]

Who should i pair with eachother

[wild sinew]

Chien Pao Dragonite
Tornadus Flutter Mane
Dondozo Tatsugiri

[cerulean totem]

depends on the match, between 0 and 3 i’d say, average of 1.5 maybe 2, which is like 50% health back on average each game. effect spore just sucks it blocks spore

[dense nebula]

think i fixed it https://pokepast.es/65928567243962d4

[wild sinew]

Specs Flutter Mane and you have

[dense nebula]

done

[hoary marsh]

Can someone rate this team and give feed back plz. https://pokepast.es/25d16d5efb2e08b0

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Electric terrain is unviable because of how bad Pinchurkin is, I notice things like that, Clefairy on this team, Screens Cresselia, double Dark Incin, Recover Tera Flying Gholdengo, and think its just best if you looked at a team from Liverpool regionals.

[wanton abyss]

Hi, thanks for sharing! I like the initiative for trying to make this team work. It’s good that you like Pokémon! This team has a lot of competitively unviable options, such as AV Belly Drum Hands (it can’t click belly drum with assault vest) and screens Cresselia. I would recommend scrapping this team entirely and pulling a rental

[cerulean totem]

https://pokepast.es/edd5960105843582 opinions?

[dense nebula]

Team works great and i havent even ev trained most of them yet 👍

Not sure if my opponents archaludon was ev trained but specs dazzling gleam one shot it. It was leftys

[wild sinew]

Ah nice

[wild sinew]

This type of sun just doesn't work unfortunately, far too easily shut down by Tornadus or Pelipper. Wake is pretty mediocre, and half of your team being support is almost never worth it. Your pretty much buffing the opposing side more than yourself sometimes, since so many run Fires, Flutter Mane, Raging Bolt, etc.

[cerulean totem]

false

team is goated

you don’t need sun

[wild sinew]

Without sun 2 of your Pokemon are unbringable, makes you very predictable and gives them a huge upper hand, Walking Wake is an even worse Pokemon without sun and is just underwhelming, downgraded Urshifu or Bolt a lot of the time. While Flutter Incin Wellspring is a fine balance composition, you're just doing way better when running a more flexible team style

[cerulean totem]

understood, although jumpluff can be very effective out of sun

most games it’s just jumpluff walking wake FM and incin with the occasional wellspring

[wild sinew]

Feels pretty underwhelming in comparison to other Pokemon that do its stuff

What you get from a frail protectless Pokemon with plenty of weaknesses

[cerulean totem]

tailwind setter with sleep

pollen puff

helping hand

facilitation of other mons on the team

i understand the feedback thiugh, thanks

[acoustic slate]

If you want a tailwind setter just use tornadus

If you want sleep and pollen puff just use among us

Ninetales is entirely outclassed by torkoal for setting sun and doing damage

You could replace wake with farigiraf to also have a tailroom core

[valid mesa]

the only reason I would ever use Jumpluff is for Encore

Encore + Sleep Powder + Tailwind is something other things can't just do

it's not necessarily recommended cause Jumpluff generally just kinda sucks

but I've seen it used.

[wild sinew]

(3 Regulations ago)

[valid mesa]

I've seen it in Reg F

[distant stump]

Seeing it doesen't mean its good

[wild sinew]

thats concerning

[valid mesa]

I saw it from Japan

[distant stump]

I did too

On sun teams

With wake at the start of the reg but not much anymore

because its bad

[valid mesa]

It's good in the right hands (I did say it wasn't recommended)

[cerulean totem]

nah jumpluff is king

trust

tork is better than ninetails and wake is a bit underwhelmig in terms of damage

[hoary marsh]

https://pokepast.es/fcf5ce96e1846336 .thoughts

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[distant stump]

Heatran and Clef are really out of place here

You already have incin/rilla for support and fire coverage

So heatran isent doing much, and clef is just making the team ultra passive

[cerulean totem]

yeah clefairy doesn’t rly fit here

if you want two fire types you could go grassy glide swords dance ogerpon instead of heatran

[wild sinew]

What Choruto said, the team wants to abuse Tailwind and is very hyper offensive, Pokemon like Landorus, Flutter Mane, Chien-Pao, Hearthflame, Raging Bolt, etc. just bring a lot more value

[hoary marsh]

Ok ive just replaced heatran with ogerpon-hearthflame what should i do with clef (landoros or landoros therian)

[wild sinew]

Landorus ideally

Better utilizer of rain and partners well with Urshifu

[prisma valley]

https://pokepast.es/1afb140e7bb43d5c im tryna make a tr team and im lost. im bad at finding he synergy btw mons and am unsure of which mons to worry about. i have wellspring as a incin check. def need some suggestions

[wild sinew]

If that's your issue then I think best thing to do is look at Liverpool teams and play with one enough to better understand what each Pokemon is for.

https://cut-explorer.stalruth.dev/regional-liverpool

[prisma valley]

Ty will do

[acoustic slate]

https://pokepast.es/0a0b5b1319efe9c7

Tried making a team around kingambit, urshifu, and raging bolt, as they’ve been kinda growing on me recently.

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[acoustic slate]

Oh crap im now just realizing protect on scarf shifu

Hold on

https://pokepast.es/8b7906556c5cebf6

Fixed it

[wild sinew]

This looks nice, I'd recommend Incineroar over Kingambit as support for Archaludon, since Kingambit stacks steel types and doesn't actually have enough support to safely Swords Dance.

The other big change I'd make would be using Amoonguss over Rillaboom, much better partner for Archaludon thanks to the Fairy resist and Pollen Puff making it much harder to remove, taking into account the Assault Vest and Stamina boosts.

You should take a look at the Smogon Strategy Dex for a guide to EVs, Archaludon and Tornadus in particular want more bulk to function as well as possible.

[acoustic slate]

Real quick, do I use defensive or offensive torn? Also, what are some good leads for the team?

[wild sinew]

Defensive since you're using Rocky helmet, and because it can get up rain dance more consistently

[acoustic slate]

Alright, ty

[wild sinew]

Team leads can vary
All the way in with Torn Shifu
Amoonguss Shifu
Slower with Amoonguss Incineroar
Incineroar Urshifu for instant pressure

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/c98c61a9d4b64d4d I saw discussion that someone had done very well with a tyranitar team at the most recent regional and it inspired me to try and use it for a sand team with hyper offense chien pao/dragapult as a secondary option. Any input would be appreciated

[wanton abyss]

Life orb sand rush is better than scarf sand force! Other than that this team seems fine. Your gouging gambit matchup looks garbage on a pokemon level. Your movesets are generally unviable, as TTar does not run fire fang, ever. Sucker Punch on Pao is almost mandatory. I would suggest you try assault vest on TTar, with tera blast and knock off over crunch. You can try heavy slam over fire fang if real.

[topaz edge]

with all the priority blockage ive seen on ladder i figured crunch over sucker made sense and i havent seen many gouging and kingambits on ladder so could you explain that or give me an example of something i should add/change to handle that?

https://pokepast.es/a29a4505581d6db7 going off what you said the best i could i swapped chien pao and dragapult with flutter and raging bolt. also adjusted ttar and excadrill *noticed i missed protect on ttar. its tera blast now

[sand minnow]

https://pokepast.es/350ba1fea531db38 i thought i made a fire team until i realize it's almost identical to a regional winning team

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

yeah, this looks fine

Acrually, would replace one of your two flyings for Ogerpon-W, gives you a better Amoonguss matchup.

[valid mesa]

(If you keep the Lando, remember to change it from Naive. The builder recommends it as Tera Blast appears special)

[sand minnow]

oh wait i'm stupid lmao

[fair marlin]

Dammit meant to post to BSS

[wild sinew]

Ah

[fair marlin]

How does this look for a doubles team?

https://pokepast.es/404d253b62feea5f

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Some Pokemon just don't work unfortunately

[fair marlin]

Lemme guess Sandy and Valiant

[wild sinew]

And Impidimp

[fair marlin]

Gonna assume Incineroar right?

My least favorite starter of the lot

[wild sinew]

Well yeah

But you can drop Tornadus Urshifu stuff and try to build around teams that don't want Incineoar

[fair marlin]

Yeah if I can’t use a Pokémon I like I’ll pass on VGC then

I want to at least use 1 Pokémon I actually like

[fair marlin]

And it’s none of the hyper meta stuff I’m fond of by the way

[wild sinew]

?

[fair marlin]

So Dragonite, pass, flutter, pass, Lando-T, pass

[wild sinew]

Do you not like any Pokemon on this list
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-2024-regulation-f-viability-rankings.3735769/

[fair marlin]

Whimsicott and Waterpon are cool but they’re not like FAVORITE territory for me

[fair marlin]

I’ve never really found any legendaries likable either

[wild sinew]

Well unfortunate then, vgc wouldn't be for you

[fair marlin]

Idk, maybe I’m just more fond of pokemon I can raise from the ground up and don’t need to wait an entire puberty to get and keep rebooting for specific IV’s

[fair marlin]

I mean if I’m using just meta and no pokemon I like it’s a real motivation killer

[wild sinew]

That's kind of every competitive scene though.
If something isn't meta / used, it's probably not good and you'll be asked to replace it when asking for competitive advice

[fair marlin]

Why do you think I dumped the last team I had?

Because after 4 battles I already felt burnt out

[wild sinew]

I get the obsession of wanting to do something no one has done before or winning against standard stuff with your favourites, seen it a million times.

But the dreams being crushed is not limited to vgc, closest you'll get is people helping you build the team despite it being bad / sub optimal

[fair marlin]

So why is it Urshifu is okay but not Valiant? They have similar if not same BST

Cause hey if I can at least use Valiant I’d be fine

Cause tbh idk why but I just never really liked any legendaries @wild sinew

[wild sinew]

Unseen Fist, Surging Strikes/Wicked Blow respectively, and the extra 60 in the attacking stat it isn't using is a huge hindrance

[fair marlin]

Cause ever since yellow blue and red versions, I didn’t like legendaries, didn’t understand why and still don’t but I don’t like them

[wild sinew]

Do you find it as if it's cheating or something?

Maybe doesn't make sense that 10 year olds can capture these beasts in the game?

[fair marlin]

No, that’s not it, I just never liked them, as I said idk why and never have understood why but I’ve always had a distaste for legendaries

[fair marlin]

My only guess

it feels like they aren’t all that great since they’re so late in the game it feels like we didn’t do much to achieve making them as powerful as they are, so it feels like I didn’t do anything to earn it

So maybe it’s kind of a “this doesn’t really feel satisfying since I didn’t work as hard for it as I did for my Lv.100 starter”

[wild sinew]

Okay
An issue you'll find is BSS / OU / DOU are also infested with legendaries so you want to look at lower tiers maybe

[fair marlin]

I’m not doing showdown

I’m on cart

[wild sinew]

Then I'll tell you cart competitive is infested with legendaries

[fair marlin]

I have seen Urshifu but nothing else

I’ve been able to take him out every time I’ve seen him

Except one time where they made him Tera poison

Urshifu I don’t mind using too much since you can get it as a Kubfu @wild sinew therefore raise it from Lv.10

[wild sinew]

Okay

[sterile flame]

https://pokepast.es/c2356e546ef756d9

this team actually kinda cooks

[wanton abyss]

Get out the kitchen, is that IDBP treads

[fresh flicker]

That actually doesn't cook against a better team and with a more experienced/better player-

[sterile flame]

That’s it guys

I’m running mega ray

[acoustic slate]

[topaz edge]

https://pokepast.es/34865df1e4604c16 Thoughts on this sun team? Think I've covered most matchups I've seen on in game ladder. Gouging + Kingambit I've seen do well

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[austere wasp]

if ur focus sashing ur flutter mane why not 252/252 it

[fresh flicker]

It's more optimal if you do go for sun boosting, you use a pixie plate or fairy feather to boost up Gleams and Moonblasts damage.

[wild sinew]

I don't like the sun part funnily enough

Tornadus Walking Wake just does not synergise well with your Gouging mode, which Specs Flutter can successfully be a part of.

Wellspring and something like Chien Pao or Landorus-T work great instead, helping set up Howl and threatening Incineroar which resets your boosts.

[topaz edge]

how would i have speed control tho? I would lose my two speed setups if dropped torn

and i wouldnt be able to change weather

[fresh flicker]

Drop protect on flutter for icy wind if you do go for specs.

[wild sinew]

^

Hard speed control like Tailwind and Iron Bundle/Spe Booster Flutter are not mandatory anyway, you just build defensive core that withstands the faster threats

[topaz edge]

So i should keep my bulkier flutter just give fairy feather and then swap out walking wake for wellspring and torn for lando-t? and should rilla stay then if i use wellspring? I also realized i have clear amulet on gouging so incin cant reset its boosts

[fresh flicker]

@wild sinew (Sorry for the ping my friend)

[wild sinew]

Imo do Specs but Fairy Feather and Booster Energy works if you're more comfortable with that

[topaz edge]

I prefer Fairy Feather simply because with it I can survive surging strikes scarf and then ohko it with a moonblast same turn

[wild sinew]

You could do that with any item tbf

[topaz edge]

oh

[fair marlin]

https://pokepast.es/f8bd0659a5839de7

How does this comp look?

I did a little cooking

[fresh flicker]

And you cooked terribly

I'd recommend using teams from the regionals for regulation F.

[fair marlin]

I don’t wanna just copy

[wanton abyss]

I have a piece of advice for you

stealing teams and then tweaking them as you go along will be the best decision you’ve ever made in your life

you still build, of course

[fair marlin]

Where can I even find the teams?

[wanton abyss]

victory road VGC website, top cut explorer, pokepastes VGC spreadsheet

a few other places

[fair marlin]

Pretty much every team has scarlet paradoxes

[fair marlin]

I have Violet so… that ain’t gonna work

[wanton abyss]

simply ask for paradoxes from friends or in the wifi room on PS

[fair marlin]

No one trades paradox raikou or entei

The last person I asked said they’d give them to me if I forked over my shiny marked Valiant and RS-Urshifu @wanton abyss

[wanton abyss]

Yeah that makes sense

It’s a version exclusive locked behind game completion and dlc

[fair marlin]

Man this whole version exclusive thing is making me hate paradoxes all over again

Cause Violet got shafted so hard

Can’t I just use something else?

[wanton abyss]

On ladder, you can use rental teams

[fair marlin]

I rather not

Cause it doesn’t deliver same satisfaction winning with pokemon and team comps 100% built by someone else

[distant stump]

!vgc

What was the command again?

Dont remember

[distant stump]

but yeah this kinda

Mid

[fair marlin]

I have Violet not Scarlet so beast trio paradoxes are not an option for me

[distant stump]

Sandy is pretty much worse lando/bolt, valiant is worse flutter, magmar is worse incin/glimmora

[distant stump]

Cant you trade

[fair marlin]

The only person willing to trade wants my RS-Urshifu

And my shiny marked valiant

[distant stump]

There are plenty of trading servers

I dont play much on cart but im sure someone else can help

[fair marlin]

Or you know they could make the versions have equally competitive level pokemon and not favor just one

[distant stump]

Violet also has pretty good mons

[fair marlin]

Yeah Lame Crown

[distant stump]

Hands and Bundle were huge last reg, even more in b

[wanton abyss]

Pokémon doesn’t design Pokemon with competition in mind, and Violet has fairly strong paradoxes on its own

I understand your frustration

There are still options

[fair marlin]

The thing is the person who wants my RS-Urshifu is clearly wanting her outta wanting to screw with me, cause they already have both forms

[distant stump]

So what mons exactly

cant you use

[fair marlin]

Any and all scarlet paradoxes outside my Sandy shocks and flutter

There was one person who said they’d trade me all scarlet paradoxes ONLY if I let them shiny hunt all violet paradoxes with me hosting

[distant stump]

u got flutter?

easy

[fair marlin]

From the recent raid event yeah

[distant stump]

plenty of comps can run with that

[fair marlin]

The thing is I have a hard time wanting to play a comp if I can’t use a favorite

Which is why I’ve been trying to make even support valiant work

@distant stump @wanton abyss how’s this?

https://pokepast.es/4c9a2f51090efd17

[distant stump]

Why AV?

And magmar is really out of place

as I said like

if you want to use your favorites

heres prolly not the best place to ask

go have fun

you can reach pretty high on cart with anything

on showdown too

[fair marlin]

Well the thing is I can’t U-Turn if I am locked into one of the other moves

[distant stump]

I got like 1550 on bo3 ladder with sylveon was crazy

[distant stump]

You run scarf

[wanton abyss]

thank you for sharing! 3/6 of this team is genuinely unviable. AV Urshifu and No Protect Flutter are generally the weakest of their sets by far, and Iron Valiant doesn’t have the bulk to do encore disable stuff

[distant stump]

And u turn out?

[fair marlin]

What can I do with Valiant then?

[distant stump]

keep it in the box :(

If you want to use it

just go for it

[fair marlin]

But if I rapid strike I can’t u-turn out

[distant stump]

????

you can?

[fair marlin]

With scarf I’m stuck to 1 move

[wanton abyss]

not much, tbh. Already having it on a team with flutter mane is redundant, as Flutter Mane matches up better into the metagame anyways, and is superior in damage output and defensive typing. Valiant needs to be positioned in a particular way and surrounded by particular Pokémon to work at the same efficiency level that Flutter Mane does with zero help

[fair marlin]

Without a Pokémon I like I burn out on battling quickly

That’s what happened with my last team for doubles

[distant stump]

Then dont come here honestly

what mons do you like

[wanton abyss]

I think it’s more of knowing what your VGC goals are

[distant stump]

yeah

[fair marlin]

Iron Valiant, Sandy Shocks, Iron Treads, Hisui Lilligant, Gallade, Gardevoir, Palafin, Tinkaton, Okidogi, Mimikyu are the ones I like most that are available here

[distant stump]

also hi tea

[wanton abyss]

are you aiming to have fun? Then use your favorite mons. Are you aiming to win regionals? Then by using your favorite mons instead of what’s good, you’re handicapping yourself

[distant stump]

Gallade, liligant, dogi are the most viable there

Gallade on hard TR teams, liligant on sun room

dogi on whatever dogi players run those teams wild

[wanton abyss]

palafin is viable if you like being walled by Waterpon

[fair marlin]

You see my last doubles team I really did try not using any favorites but I quickly lost interest in battling

So I can at least say I gave it a shot

You see what I’m trying to do is find that middle ground where I can keep myself motivated for battling but also have fun

[fair marlin]

I haven’t been able to find teams for him

[distant stump]

One sec

[distant stump]

https://pokepast.es/7283dcaf52cc8318

SOmething like this, but wiht dogi instead of incin/jugulis

https://pokepast.es/98644cfd701b52d7

[fair marlin]

Tailwind and TR on the same team?

[distant stump]

and heres a team with gallade and H-liligant

[distant stump]

Yeah its a popular play style

Called Tailroom

[fair marlin]

How does it work?

[distant stump]

I like it personally, it allows you to run multiple modes and make your opponent respect both a trick room and a tailwind mode

You pick

either trick room, or tailwind

your opponent cant really cover for both so its smart positioning after that

hard to play but actually pretty strong if you get good at it

[fair marlin]

I see, interesting

So how do we determine what pokemon for what?

[distant stump]

wym

[fair marlin]

Like which do we pick for TR? Cause all those pokemon are pretty fast

[distant stump]

Only thing matters in TR

Is that you underspeed your opponents mons

not how fast you are

smh like incin is pretty fast compared to most trick room mons, but underspeed most of the threats it cares out in trick room

Generally, BM and Fig are trick room

Jugulis and Flutter are tailwind

though Flutter is also a strong bring in trick room as a late game sweeper

[teal jacinth]

https://pokepast.es/b75ce47a2d871f70 i am prepared to be roasted

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

6 doesn't look bad other than Hoodra, which is ideally Follow Me Wellspring and making Hearthflame a Chi Yu.

Then there are a lot of set issues that I'd just recommend looking at Smogon Strategy Dex, saving time

[ornate cloak]

https://pokepast.es/7f5f8ebfb8645c15

This might seem a bit gimmicky but not sure

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wild sinew]

Clefairy kind of does the exact opposite of what the team wants and is better off as a Flutter Mane.

Chi-Yu or Incineroar should be replaced with Wellspring to avoid tripling on darks and doubling weaknesses with no resists.

I also just recommend using the EV slider, a lot of your mons are wasting EVs

[ornate cloak]

Understood

[ornate cloak]

https://pokepast.es/3ee54f78b7f5c122

TornShifu but idk if it's any good

[north tree]

Too many fire types. You can either get rid of gouging or get rid of both oger hearth and incin. If you replace gouging go water shifu instead of dark and add choice specs flutter. If you do the latter, replace hearth with wellspring and incin with specs flutter.

[ornate cloak]

Alr

[north tree]

You're also wasting evs on incin and you should really run sash ursh or have a lot more bulk and tera poison

[ornate cloak]

The Incin set I took from the strategy Dex

[north tree]

From the vgc strategy dex?

[ornate cloak]

Yeah

[north tree]

Also did you take the evs from there too?

[ornate cloak]

Lemme verify, but I'm p sure I did

[ornate cloak]

Nvm

[north tree]

This is the spread I see

[ornate cloak]

I'm dumb

[north tree]

Dw we all are sometimes😅

[ornate cloak]

Mb mb

I'll fix the EVs

[ornate cloak]

I was using this set in one of my previous teams but I forgot to copy it 😭

@north tree

https://pokepast.es/5e9b341918b27d92

I used the smogon sets

Is this better?

Wait ugh

Okay done

[north tree]

Make the flutter and ogerpon bulkier and it works

[ornate cloak]

Alright

[north tree]

I run a similar team with pao over oger hearth and rapid shifu over dark shifu

[ornate cloak]

Ooh

Also um

This isn't related to team building, but which ladder is better to get into first? Reg F or Reg F bo3?

[north tree]

Definitely bo3 if you have the time

Bo1 leads to a lot of bad habits and frustration

[ornate cloak]

Uh

Bad habits...?

[north tree]

Over reading, using too much surprise factor

[ornate cloak]

True

Okay

Tysm for the advice

Really appreciate it

[north tree]

Np

[north tree]

It's still fine to play bo1, bo3 is just more optimal to improve

I play both depending on how tight my time is

[ornate cloak]

True

Tho, bo3 seemed more fun when I first played it

[north tree]

Personal opinion here, yes bo3 is way more fun

[ornate cloak]

Alright

[midnight ember]

some1 got a heatran reg f spread?

[north tree]

#comp-general is a better place to go for this

We tend to deal with fully built teams and improving them

[midnight ember]

okay

[midnight ember]

https://pokepast.es/f4dafbe3ff2ffea8

[drifting onyx]

New VGC RMT @normal stream, @wild sinew, @austere wasp, @hot wren, @wanton abyss, @distant stump, @north tree. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[midnight ember]

is clefairy even useful here?

[north tree]

Most likely no, clefairy tends to do well on more setup heavy teams, which your team doesn't have. Since your question was on clefairy, I'll leave it at that unless you reply and ask for general team advice.

[midnight ember]

do you have any idea what i could go for instead of clefairy?

[north tree]

Powerful sweeper, something like specs flutter mane

[midnight ember]

alright thank you :)

[fair marlin]

Made a team inspired by Jeans

https://pokepast.es/d393a5bea6bee9f7