Smogon Doubles Rates

[torpid moat]

hey, this is far too low-power for dubers, and there are a lot of really questionable sets here

manual sun is never worth using in dubers, you can just run koraidon or groudon instead

and generally you should not be using mons that aren't over 600bst as non-support roles

ho oh is so much more reliable than zard, zama-c or zacian or koraidon is better than urshifu, and so on

the mew transform imprison gimmick is probably not going to succeed either, dubers is very explosive in terms of snowballing, maybe you could justify it as like imprison for trick room, but it's just so easy for something like espeed arceus to completely ignore the mew and kill it before you get the combo off

[orchid stump]

https://pokepast.es/b6f4457cce737383

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

The team would really benefit from Tera ghost chiyu

Also why is there a meowscarada

You would rather have av rillaboom or Ogerpon-Wellspring in that slot

[waxen obsidian]

https://pokepast.es/171374643d713f3a

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[waxen obsidian]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

am i doing good

[final kestrel]

When you have a choice item, you don't usually want Protect cause now you can't attack. You can't use Steath Rock with Assault Vest either.

[waxen obsidian]

Aight

[hollow oxide]

wake seems odd here

since it's not a sun team

[lyric dagger]

can someone provide some suggestions on how to improve this trick room team I made: https://pokepast.es/6648e46180d55a64 oh ye and also an ou one: https://pokepast.es/024412751366b284

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[golden osprey]

how can I make this trick room team better

[proven jasper]

i’m working on a primarina team rn, i have a tailwind setter whimsicott so that she gets some extra speed but im a bit stuck from there

[final kestrel]

Roaring Moon may be a better choice as a Tailwind setter. Common mons such as Rillaboom and the Ogerpons can get their Attacks reduced via Breaking Swipe and Knock Off should do good damage against Sinistcha. From there, you could add a Fake Out user (Rillaboom, Incineroar, or Iron Hands) and/or redirectors (Ogerpons or Sinistcha). The rest of the team should be coverage that takes care of what Primarina can't.

[proven jasper]

thank u sm! i think i may do primarina, roaring moon, iron hands, sinistcha, and then two more

[rose juniper]

In short, diffrent trickroom setters and swap out ghold and breloom for something stronger

[edgy brook]

https://pokepast.es/318b478eb084611f

May I get feedback, please? Also, the Iron Ball are for the other slow Torkoals.

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[waxen obsidian]

genuinely what am i doing

idk this is supossed to be an iron hands setup team with trick room?

✌️ 🥹

[elfin gulch]

Idk I made this in 15 mins works well but i get destroyed by astral barrage

maybe lingambit isnt doing much but that sucker punch is great

[waxen obsidian]

im crying bro what are these drawings

[thorny solar]

https://pokepast.es/74d6d420b4853dd9
Could someone please help me pick out any oversights?

Naming thing was going on before april fools js ignore it

Ignore the team name too

[brittle spade]

Oh god so many people

Ugh I'll get to it in an hour

[waxen obsidian]

https://pokepast.es/1268799b44808e24 changed it a lil bit

[brittle spade]

for the dubers one, get rid of the shitmons, cresselia smeargle and hatterene, which are all too weak for dubers, and run trick room users like arceus, palkia and lunala

run incineroar or iron hands if you need fake out to set the trick room

for the dou one you'd be really better off running charcoal torkoal, it wants to switch moves between eruption and earth power

or solar beam

[brittle spade]

you should have a look at the viabilty rankings which are pinned in this channel to know which pokemon are strong in dou, because three of those should not be used, and gholdengo needs a different item

[brittle spade]

yeah doesn't matter, torkoal wants its charcoal, run lv99 torkoal if you really want to underspeed other torkoals

please take safety goggles off hatterene and run life orb or twisted spoon or covert cloak

garganacl is too slow to be run on a full trick room team

a full trick room team wants to end the game in less than 5 turns

[edgy brook]

It is a good wide guard user though.

[brittle spade]

your pokemon has to either : set trick room, sweep under trick room, protect the mon clicking trick room

[brittle spade]

nah its shit, everyone knows it runs wide guard

gallade would do a better job on this archetype

[edgy brook]

Also, not to be that guy, but it feels wrong seeing the lvls inconsistent.

[brittle spade]

you are being that guy

[edgy brook]

You got a sample?

[brittle spade]

its the only viable way to have torkoal underspeed other torkoals

[brittle spade]

samples are pinned in this channel, we invite you to check them out

they were updated rather recently too

there's a fullroom team there

[brittle spade]

this will get destroyed by way more things than astral barrage, you're running 4 mons that have nothing to do in dubers

give the boot to rhyperior hatterene gholdengo and kingambit and replace them with stuff with at least 650 base stats

[edgy brook]

I like the hoopa one. Also, ye got a good slow wide guard user?

[brittle spade]

lunala arceus magearna are all way better TR setters

[brittle spade]

araquanid conkeldur gallade

[edgy brook]

Conkeldurr gets it??

[brittle spade]

if you really really want wide guard

yes

[brittle spade]

the oversight might be including veluza and zoroark-hisui, which are so weak they don't see usage in DRU, which is below DUU, which is below DOU

if you really want to build around one of those do tell us otherwise all of us will tell you to get rid of them

for stuff like incineroar rillaboom or chien pao

[brittle spade]

just run assault vest on landorus or give it stealth rocks pls

and a tera that resists ice and water

whimsicott doesnt want loaded dice, it wants focus sash

and taunt/encore or some form of support move over energy ball

or helping hand

ok done

[waxen obsidian]

Sorry i was testing beat up and didnt change its item

[lyric dagger]

I thought cressilia and hatterene were good trick room setters tho, who would you replace smeargle with tho he’s just there to protect the attackers

[brittle spade]

not for dubers no

[lyric dagger]

Alralr does it change any interactions with eruptions? Sounds good thi

[brittle spade]

what do you mean interactions

[lyric dagger]

like ohko and 2ohkoing months with eruption

Does it change any important matchups or nah

[brittle spade]

probably not no

[peak crypt]

Iron Ball helps you with basically nothing (just Follow Me against opposing Torkoal) so you might as well use Charcoal or Choice Specs for more damage

Even if there aren’t any specific calcs it picks up for Torkoal itself, the extra damage will help your other Pokemon finish the job

[elfin gulch]

Do u have any suggestions? I’m pretty sure I need at least two truck room setters but I have no idea how to build a proper team

[torpid moat]

full trick room isn't terribly strong in dubers, semiroom is a lot more viable, but basically dubers is about building piles of big stats, and then supplementing that with non-uber support as necessary

using non-ubers in attacking roles like kingambit and ghold is pointless

the best answers to calyrex-shadow are normal types like arceus, wide guard zamazenta, and incineroar

[elfin gulch]

Is semi room like half are high speed half are slow

[torpid moat]

semiroom is a team that has trick room on it but can also function outside of tr

you can think of it like adding a smaller "tr package" to your team as a speed control option

[elfin gulch]

ok so keep kyogre hattersne calytex Ice and replace the rest?

[torpid moat]

but it's not a direct half and half split

no you cut hatt too it's terrible

it dies to everything

[elfin gulch]

So just keep kyogre and calyrex?

[torpid moat]

yeah that'd be an okay start, you would probably add magerna and incineroar to that

either that or indeedee-f for fake out immunity + follow me

kyogre is actually somewhat poorly positioned due to how badly it loses to koraidon, but it's like an okay partner for ice rider

[elfin gulch]

isnt magearna also slow

[torpid moat]

but yeah you can choose from a small amount of tr-oriented mons like amoonguss or magerna (soul heart is busted)

magearna can work but you have to be extra careful about fires

and/or korai

[elfin gulch]

Kyogre calyrex magearna incineroar amoongus indeedee?

[torpid moat]

too few dubers

there should probably be an arceus involved

[elfin gulch]

who r the trick room setters

[torpid moat]

I said indeedee or incineroar because you don't want too many supports

magearna, indeedee, ice rider can set tr

arceus can as well

you do not want all of them at once

magearna plus ice rider should be sufficient

[elfin gulch]

ok thanks

I’ll replace indeedee or incineroar witj Arceus then

[ocean pine]

hi I'm new to completive pokemon and i wanted to learn a trick room. was given this paste but it doesnt have iv's or ev's on it so i wanted to ask does anyone know the common stats that should go on these mons or just max them? https://pokepast.es/9d67458111b14f76

[halcyon panther]

Hey @ocean pine, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9vgc team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059704283072831499 instead.

[torpid moat]

if you just want me to give you a 6, try ice rider/magearna/kyogre/incineroar/miraidon/ekiller arceus or groundceus

vgc-rates is indeed the correct channel

[ocean pine]

bet mb

[elfin gulch]

What’s ekiller

[torpid moat]

extreme speed/swords dance arceus

with clear amulet

or silk scarf

[elfin gulch]

is that just normal type then

[torpid moat]

yes

[elfin gulch]

Thanks a lot

I’ll have to have two versions of it bc I mainly play showdown to 1v1 my friends but I’ll figure it out

[torpid moat]

you can add as many teams in builder as you want

[elfin gulch]

[elfin gulch]

ik it’s just that the team u gave me has 4 legendaries but we made a rule that’s max 2

[torpid moat]

that's closer to vgc restricted rules

which is a different format

kyogre + ice rider would be a little stronger there

pair with like archaludon, amoong, indeedee-f, incin or something

[elfin gulch]

Ur the goat tysm

[low tusk]

hi very new to DOU after playing singles for like a year, finally climbing on showdown with this team though, any help w it would be awesome
https://pokepast.es/fe44e2a04f10195f

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[low tusk]

ouh wait thats the old version sorry

https://pokepast.es/c81dacdf7eaa8d01

[tight spire]

Regice isn't a pokemon you want to run without having something to set snow like Alolan Ninetlaes to set snow and let it spam blizzard and Assault Vest is a bit overkill for its special defense (you really would rather boosts its damage).

Hatterene really also wants to set trick room too, you should give it a life orb, assault vest I don't see working

Ursaluna does not need Close Combat, give it something like Swords Dance

Regidrago I don't really think works well in full trick room, I think you'd rather Torkoal here at least because it can hit steel types that the psyspammers can't (thats usually what typical full trick room does)

[hallow wyvern]

Genuinely quit team building

[sacred merlin]

vro no need to rude especially when the team is all round fine enough (most of the sets are mediocre tho(

[viscid beacon]

https://pokepast.es/df98a7e7a10a2fc3
is glimmora or amoonguss a better fit here

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

can this guy be kicked from the channel

[viscid beacon]

https://pokepast.es/4b1e763c8a815a89
fixed it

[elder furnace]

Hey, just wanted to know if some people would be up to rate my team, i made it today and i've gotten pretty good results so far

https://pokepast.es/2afa21ff957a681a

[regal ridge]

https://pokepast.es/39f99978964db555 i’m creating a tr team and im finding a hard time determining the last two slots of my team could i get some help

[elder wave]

https://pokepast.es/da4d7e2b9c4e6567 doubles Ubers team, any advice

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[elder wave]

Playtested a little and I think kyogre needs protect

Mystic water and get rid of thunder maybe?

And I’ll change speed so its timid, hits 279 and is invested a little in hp as well

[elder wave]

https://pokepast.es/a0112eb5ed0c9cdb

New paste

[torpid moat]

amoong would definitely be better than glimm, but I think running waterpon over both prima and glimm would be better

[torpid moat]

you can run stealth rock on ttar instead

also you should definitely give the dnite inner focus for fake out + intimidate immunity instead of a multiscale vulnerable to sand chip

[torpid moat]

hey, rain is pretty mediocre but usable, but eterrain is actively terrible, the small quark drive boost is absolutely not worth running as bad a mon as pinchurchin

if you want an electric you'd be much better off just running raging bolt

[elder furnace]

it also boosts alolan raichu's speed and thunderbolt

[torpid moat]

yeah but that's the problem, both alolachu and valiant are pretty mediocre mons

as well

[elder furnace]

oh

god i hope they change e terrain in later gen, i need me good electric thingies

[torpid moat]

you'd be way better off with raging bolt or iron hands

[elder furnace]

to replace pincurchin ?

but then i'd have to also replace alolan raichu

and then at that point i'd have to remove pelipper and put like tornadus instead

at that point might as well make a new team

[torpid moat]

it'd be more like you could reasonably start a rain team with peli/lando-i/kingdra/waterpon

[elder furnace]

i'll look into that, might be my next try at a good team

[torpid moat]

the next 2 shouldn't care about rain at all and just be there to fix matchups

like adding gholdengo to help with snow and tr

[elder furnace]

that"s interesting, that might be why i keep failing my rain teams, i focus too much on everything benefitting from the rain

[torpid moat]

oftentimes running strong, flexible mons is better than explicit "synergy"

[elder furnace]

well thank you for the lesson, imma try that

[torpid moat]

you don't want farig and indeedee together, they're really redundant

you'd probably want like diancie and porygon2 as additional setters, and then maybe waterpon for lando-i and incin

[torpid moat]

are you sure this is for doubles ubers? if so, you really really should not be running so few big legends

[elder wave]

🤷‍♀️

[torpid moat]

whims for tailwind is fine, but the rest are all outclassed by an uber of some kind

zamazenta is a better wide guard mon that valiant, groundceus better than lando

[elder wave]

I c

[torpid moat]

the farig I guess technically has a niche but you'd likely rather have incineroar to blunt offenses or just some extra attacker like ice rider

if you want something for trick room

or shadow rider of course, can't go wrong with that one

[elder wave]

For sure

Ty for the advice

[viscid beacon]

is it worth taking the vest off ttar ig i would life orb then?

i played a few games on this team it wasn’t so bad

i’ll probably do waterpon i wanted some SpA with the primarina though

good call for the dnite changes tho idk what i was thinking running multi scale in a sandstorm team

[torpid moat]

try rock slide/knock off/sr/protect with sitrus or shuca or covert cloak

I think with the changes I suggested you'd have 5 slots

you can try av kyurem in the last slot

glaciate/freeze dry/earth power/draco meteor

[viscid beacon]

appreciate the tips i’ll try em and lyk

[tacit slate]

Any advice on this Doubles OU team? I think Torkoal's become my absolute worst enemy, with general hard TR teams (Hatterene, Indeedee, Ursaluna)
https://pokepast.es/1efd45adeadde460

[hard nebula]

im no pro but for torkoal maybe flash fire heatran? he is slow enough to be able to deal a bit whit trick room

[uneven garnet]

guys any advice double ubers team https://pokepast.es/eadbe0457c9d84ba

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[hard nebula]

https://pokepast.es/ef9b8f658b879b3c hii, who should I switch here, i have a really hard time with some ground treats

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

well yeah you have no landorus anwers

you should be running grassy seed nasty plot gholdengo here

and get rid of heatran for something like ogerpon wellspring or chien pao

https://pokepast.es/9e422512b62d5246

try this

[hard nebula]

exaclty i get wreked everytime i see him

[hard nebula]

ohhh got it

[hard nebula]

why grassy seed?

[hard nebula]

got it ill try it

[brittle spade]

why wouldnt you? you boost your defense, letting you setup more easily

[hard nebula]

yeah fair enough

[hard nebula]

thanks alot!

[brittle spade]

ok at this point people in this channel need to explain to me why they are bringing mainly dou pokemon to the dubers format. farigiraf is much much too weak to be used in that format. the pokemon clicking trick room should either be calyrex, lunala or arceus

incineroar and rillaboom are playable but urshifu definitely is not

why do you not want to win your games ?

replace urshifu and farigiraf with this
Calyrex-Ice @ Never-Melt Ice
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Glacial Lance
• High Horsepower
• Trick Room
• Protect
  Kyogre @ Assault Vest
  Ability: Drizzle
  Tera Type: Grass
  EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 56 SpA / 60 Spe
  Modest Nature
  IVs: 0 Atk
• Origin Pulse
• Hydro Pump
• Ice Beam
• Thunder

and then we can have a conversation

[brittle spade]

you should not be losing against hard TR with this, but if you're really struggling the one change you can do is replacing knock off by snarl on incin

[rotund gate]

https://pokepast.es/8f661c7662c25cca

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rotund gate]

New rain team I put together that will be one of my three teams for champions when the members are there

[ruby nacelle]

Which version of the team is better?
https://pokepast.es/455bda0fa6349077
https://pokepast.es/5bb8db1bd7591a6d

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

the fact that you're running earthquake ursaluna and that you put an iron ball on the only earthquake-immune pokemon of your team is yet-unheard of levels of teambuilding crime

[ruby nacelle]

Yeah but how else was I supposed to get the psychic terrain boost

[brittle spade]

The incineroar version is probably slightly better, you're free to run psychic seed swords dance on iron hands like that

Also get rid of drain punch on ursaluna, it does nothing

[ruby nacelle]

What would be a good option for a move on ursaluna ?

[brittle spade]

Headlong Rush swords dance or substitute

Or crunch if you have trouble with sinistcha

[ruby nacelle]

Okay thanks

[livid cape]

https://psim.us/t/1633317

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[livid cape]

Is this team good?

[torpid moat]

hey, I can buy the deo-s if you're going for a HO build, but the slither wing, flutter mane, and kingambit are all mostly outclassed by other dubers like extreme speed arceus and calyrex-shadow

if you need more bulk you can run like zama-c or incineroar

[livid cape]

So what would a better team?

The deoxys is there to prevent hazard setups and moves like will-o-wisp

I usually lead with deoxys-s/slither wing or flluter mane

[torpid moat]

oh I meant direct replacements in that case, like deo-s/korai/mirai/shadow rider/arceus

and filler slot can be something like zamazenta or incineroar to round out the bulk

[livid cape]

I see

[livid cape]

I lwk never used zamazenta what's the build for him

[torpid moat]

zama c with body press/wide guard/snarl/iron defense here

[livid cape]

Okie

[torpid moat]

snarl and wide guard help with opposing shadow/ice rider, kyogre, groudon

[livid cape]

Could I theoretically replace incineroar with tyranitar?

[torpid moat]

I don't know why you'd want to tbh, you've already got hazards for sashbreaking and it'll clash with your korai

incin is a lot better defensively and utility wise

[livid cape]

I see

I was thinking of like using him as a tank

[torpid moat]

cause of wisp/parting and intim and fake out

[livid cape]

Ty

For helping

[red pine]

https://pokepast.es/ed4f3685500d13eb

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[red pine]

hey guys pls rate

[light mortar]

https://pokepast.es/f345965be6e44709

[orchid stump]

https://pokepast.es/add608d59a115775

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

hey, are you sure you want to play doubles ubers and not some VGC reg? We do have a vgc-rates channel if you want that. If you're actually playing dubers, you really have to maximize the amount of high-powered ubers on your team, like running koraidon and ho-oh and magearna and arceus and so on. Certain support mons like incineroar, tornadus, and indeedee-f are viable, but any attacker should really just be a proper uber.

[torpid moat]

hey, not really sure on this comp, there's a lot of role overlap here and some of the sets are pretty awkward

you can try covert cloak tornadus instead of talon, it's just a superior tw user

the exca set is weird and definitely needs protect, rapid spin is unnecessary, you can try bug tera eq/iron head/x scissor/protect, or run high horsepower + eq for single target/bypassing grassy terrain

ttar is fine, non-av sr or taunt is another option, but on av you should probably run dragon tail last over tera blast

gapdos doesn't need white herb, its best sets are choice band, scarf, or av

gapdos also really wants knock off for hitting gholdengo, you only need 1 fighting move

the blood moon in last slot makes the team too weak to dogi/rilla, you could maybe try latios or kyurem in that slot

[torpid moat]

this looks pretty good, though I'd recommend taunt>acro rmoon and giving dogi av instead

[fringe umbra]

https://pokepast.es/b3d869cc116a042a Can this work?

[light mortar]

thank you for your feedback 🙏

[light mortar]

i got white herb on it so i have freedom of moves

[torpid moat]

assault vest still gives you that freedom if you want it, there's also covert cloak if you want protect/even more flexibility

torn runs tailwind/bleakwind and then any 2 of taunt icy wind protect

[compact pier]

https://pokepast.es/c317c785ef406675 used this team and butchered most of low elo, but now my winrate is starting to dwindle a bit and wanted to get my team checked before i go further

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[marble prawn]

How good is this team?

[hollow oxide]

!shareteam

[halcyon panther]

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

[torpid moat]

it does seem fairly unbalanced, there's no big payoff for screens, and there's no speed control either

I imagine you'd have a lot of trouble against glimmora or okidogi, among other things

there's always some tension running screens and pao together

usually ghold is a more popular grimm partner than gambit btw

you could try sd waterpon maybe instead of follow me

but yeah a lot of the damage seems too easy to mitigate for a screens team, plus no speed control to back up lando-i

here's one of my grimm teams with a similar comp if you want a comparison: https://pokepast.es/44776679670eb476

[torpid moat]

there's not enough ubers here, you can run supports like incin and torn sparingly but there's no replacement for the additional stats from mons like shadow rider, ho-oh, or miraidon

for example I don't think prankster tailwind is critical to this team, you could probably cut incin + torn for ho-oh + zacian, and run shadow rider in flutter slot

[hollow crow]

Hi. New to this discord but definetly had lots of experience in Showdown. I just want to ask how good the team I've been using is. https://pokepast.es/07b36166031fd32e

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[compact pier]

What do you mean too easy to mitigate? Like the screens don’t do anything for me?

[torpid moat]

it's too easy for an opponent to weaken or disable what's supposed to be your win conditions

ghold is a lot harder to stop than gambit for example

and aside from gambit (who can still get wisped) a lot of the team gets weakened by incin

lando-i is like your one out to a lot of problems, but there's also no speed control to support the lando-i

[fringe umbra]

Would this work for OU Gen 9 Doubles? https://pokepast.es/b3d869cc116a042a

https://pokepast.es/a32ba5b5085c7e3c Here's the modified ones with working imgs mb

[tranquil sun]

Hi, this Is my team.
For now in just theory crafting since im kinda new lol

[fathom wedge]

can you upload it to pokepaste?

[tranquil sun]

I guess, ke me try

[fathom wedge]

send the link

for the pokepaste

no

Upload to Pokepaste

button under the team

[tranquil sun]

https://pokepast.es/75c6452a8f9b49dd

This?

[fathom wedge]

yes

[tranquil sun]

Nice

[fathom wedge]

First of all, your team is really frail against physical hits

Primarina can work out of trick room but you would prefer something else mostly

you have multiple type repetitions

Scizor is barely ever gonna be able to set up

Water-Steel-Flying is a good combination, but you are repeating steel, ground and water types

you would generally prefer something like Flygon instead of Gliscor

[tranquil sun]

Ive picked this type since ive a problem with oneshots

This type list are Pokémon with alloth of resistances and i try to play a war of percistance

And this Pokemon look pretty ;_)

[oak phoenix]

Raichu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Lightning Rod
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 124 Def / 252 SpA / 132 Spe

• Thunderbolt
• Nuzzle
• Fake Out
• Thunder

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 8 Def / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Psychic
• Sandsear Storm
• Earth Power
• Protect

Incineroar @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 96 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature

• Knock Off
• Parting Shot
• Flare Blitz
• Fake Out

Kyogre @ Mystic Water
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Ice Beam
• Water Spout
• Thunder
• Protect

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

• Rage Powder
• Toxic
• Spore
• Protect

Whimsicott (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk

• Taunt
• Tailwind
• Moonblast
• Protect

This is my rain team, looking for any improvments.

[tranquil sun]

This changes what provide to my team and with what moves i should pair

[fathom wedge]

thats why I said generally

I said Flygon specifically since he has both ground type and tailwind like Gliscor

[tranquil sun]

Flygon Is one of my favorite Pokémon but i was Also thinking landorus

[fathom wedge]

if you want Landorus just for the ground typing you could, but than you lose out on Tailwind

[tranquil sun]

Mh

[fathom wedge]

https://pokepast.es/8bc43dad4650a015

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fathom wedge]

swapped Last Respects for Shadow Ball on Basculegion

[torpid moat]

come on, this is like the third time, if you're trying to win in dubers you need to actually run 4-6 real ubers on your team

[fathom wedge]

oh the team isnt meant for ubers this time I am just testing out stuff this isnt the final one

[torpid moat]

this isn't even really a cohesive team regardless, if you're seriously trying to make something "stall" or grindy you want stuff like giratina, ho-oh, tspikes or cosmic power eternatus

regidrago is also purely an offensive mon and doesn't make sense on stall at all

[lyric agate]

Hi! I'm new to comp building, and I'm thinking of running follow me on my ogerpon. Aside from that, I'm also looking for general advice (and rates ofc)

https://pokepast.es/eec0f7bda1181c0a

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[random stone]

hazards usually suck in doubles, but what if we set them up while pressuring switches?
https://pokepast.es/968d5e03ed26d9e1

this is just a draft, theorycrafting with different items and this has been good so far

any feedback?

[random stone]

you’ve got some good stuff here and I am just as inexperienced as you are in this format, but some changes I’d do are:

stealth rock on Landorus since hazards aren’t as good in doubles (maybe sub for U-turn or Psychic?)

Incineroar could use a different Tera type since Tera dragon isn’t great defensively

you’ll want more immediate power so you could consider things like Draco Meteor on Raging Bolt

follow me is great with Ogerpon as you said, you can drop U-Turn for it

[torpid moat]

hey, this has too few trick room setters for a dedicated hard TR team, you won't have the resources to set a second time, especially because hatt and indeedee traditionally pair together

you could try diancie over the hands

diamond storm/body press/trick room/protect

shuca berry

let's say with fire tera so you can tank ogerpons/make it rain

[torpid moat]

hey sorry, the mons used here are just too weak, I recommend checking out the sample teams and viability rankings for mon choice/comp

[halcyon panther]

Doubles OU (Gen 9)

• PS! room
• Discord
• Discussion thread
• Viability rankings
• Sample teams

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[fringe umbra]

Alr thx

[torpid moat]

there are also lots of issues with these sets regardless

that I'll explain just so you know for the future

for one, indeedee-f summons psychic terrain, which blocks priority attacks

which means fake out is mostly useless on it

[fringe umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/spinda-pokemon-confused-meme-paper-gif-4657776471761296928

[torpid moat]

generally it runs trick room/follow me as the main support moves

[fringe umbra]

Goddammit I didn't even think much

[torpid moat]

the deo is choice specs agility calm mind light screen

so you won't be able to change moves at all

and the move choices all clash with each other

if you want a calm mind eforce user, I recommend booster energy (speed) iron crown

[hollow oxide]

also either way deo-s is already outspeeding stuff anyway

[torpid moat]

with eforce/tachyon cutter/calm mind/protect

chand itself is a pretty bad mon compared to like chi-yu, also you never want to run dark pulse on ghost types, you should run shadow ball for stab

manual sun is also really bad on anything not named tornadus on very specific teams

[hollow oxide]

you p much only use torkoal if you're using it with drought for a sun team

[torpid moat]

speaking of sun, yeah torkoal is missing drought

scrafty is generally used for fake out with intimidate

okidogi is a better bulk up user due to immunity to intimidate and whirlwind from guard dog

not sure what the whims set is supposed to be doing, normally it's a prankster tailwind user

@fringe umbra if you're looking for a fast eforce team, check out this writeup by budgie pup stew: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/iron-crown-gapdos-psyspam-peaked-3-on-ladder-1906-elo.3775603/

[hollow oxide]

it also feels like torkoal and scrafty here are intended to work in trick room but 1. no trick room and 2. there is a deoxys speed

[torpid moat]

it explains roles and the comp pretty well

[torpid moat]

hey, this team is too weak for dou, I think the entire team is legal in doubles uu and still wouldn't be very powerful there

construction wise I guess it's okay, maybe a bit lacking in speed or reliable speed control, but yeah all the mons chosen are just too weak

in dou firepon + lando-i or something would just clean through the entire team due to the lack of speed and weak mon quality

[halcyon panther]

Doubles OU (Gen 9)

• PS! room
• Discord
• Discussion thread
• Viability rankings
• Sample teams

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

Doubles UnderUsed (Gen 9)

• Discord
• Viability Rankings
• Sample Teams
• Overview and Resources

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[torpid moat]

I recommend checking out sample teams from both threads depending on which tier you're interested in playing

[fringe umbra]

Alr I'll check out this and try out other types of battles other than purely OU Double gen 9

Thx for the assist

[torpid moat]

yw

[torpid moat]

follow me waterpon makes sense here, my main recommendation would be to cut the iron valiant for a tailwind user like tornadus or roaring moon, lando-i and ghold only function their best under tailwind

also you should make either raging bolt a calm mind set, or switch gholdengo to nasty plot

you have a ton of great defensive/support options here between the incin, follow me waterpon, and the soon-to-appear tailwind, which is a perfect place to run a setup wincon

valiant is also just not a very great mon, too frail and doesn't deal enough damage to make up for it

also gets forced out too often by stuff like incin or ghold, which wastes booster

it's a pretty solid team comp otherwise

[lyric agate]

Good to know, I'll try it out for sure 👍

[torpid moat]

sr lando is fine btw

[torpid moat]

hazards comps do exist in DOU, most commonly ting lu spikes teams or sr glimm squads

a classic example of this is a glimm paonite team, which uses glimm to set sr + tspikes to pressure defensive mons, then clean with normal tera espeed dnite boosted next to chien pao's sword of ruin (hence paonite)

these usually also have lando-i for killing okidogi and other nuisances like incineroar

what you have now doesn't have enough speed control to properly clean up with hazards, and you're spending 2 entire frail team slots to get the hazards up

sr glimm is pretty much just a superior option than hamurott + kleavor, much harder to deny hazards, useful in the mirror, cleans up opposing hazards too with poison typing, and mortal spin if you want it

here's a paonite glimm comp for example: https://pokepast.es/d9707cf9339f2619

the metagross is nonstandard but rest is pretty stock

if you want other hazards ideas, here's an sr deo-s team from Eragon: https://pokepast.es/db617417b4817917

it's a wackier comp, but still well-made

a more traditional glimm offense: https://pokepast.es/f53d84e3f5dd7d67

[random stone]

thx for the feedback! i always thought hazards were awful for doubles due to the time it takes to set them up, so seeing that it’s actually a decent off-meta strategy is nice

[torpid moat]

it's not even off-meta it's just meta

[random stone]

I’ll check out those glimm paonite teams, they seem to fit my playstyle the best. cheers

[random stone]

wait genuinely??? the more you know 🫡

[torpid moat]

not as prevalent in singles, and not worth running removal besides mortal spin glimm

but it's enough of a concern that boots is one of the most common incin items in tournament play

because of how much incin values switching in and out

sr most common, followed by glimm's tspikes

spikes rarely

mainly from ting lu

https://pokepast.es/8a6ac8c1a6046c2f

here's an sr ting lu comp as well that leans more towards inevitability

to be clear, hazards are near-worthless in vgc's bring 6 pick 4

but doubles ou is 6v6 so it opens more opportunities for hazards to make progress

[random stone]

Ah, i was thinking more on the line that this is similar to VGC but with more bans so I wanted u to explain that

[torpid moat]

especially when they practically hand them out for free with glimm

[random stone]

it’s interesting how having more pokemon in play makes hazards that much more worth it

[torpid moat]

it's just a simple numbers thing

in vgc maybe 3 mons switch into your hazards if you set them t1, if you're lucky

in a dou game that's much more likely to be 5+ switchins

just due to the number of mons on the field and how switching and pivoting is more powerful in 6v6 when both sides have more options to do so

[random stone]

alright I’ll experiment with glimmora and paonite

are there other notable squads that like sr glimm?

[torpid moat]

it's honestly pretty splashable

good on attrition as well as offense teams

you don't want it on something already weak to lando-i

usually appreciates tailwind somewhere

can be meteor beam set

not very useful on semiroom teams either

[random stone]

alright good to know, tysm for the info and hagd 🫡

[torpid moat]

yw

btw I linked another glimm squad here: https://pokepast.es/f53d84e3f5dd7d67

also part of okidogi's viability is being a setup mon that absorbs tspikes

so you have to be very careful of it, especially on glimm paonite

[random stone]

alr thx

[tranquil sun]

Dayum

[summer geyser]

https://pokepast.es/7ebd37d2825c4307 this is my first time with competitive pokemon, but could you tell me what I could improve with this team I made in showdown? I've won some games but I've definitely lost a fair lot of em

[slender basin]

https://pokepast.es/41490a8a89b370e0

guys

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[slender basin]

im making a physical goodra team, can anyone tell me how i can improve it?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2577271818
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2577279790

some gameplay vids to show how it sorta works

[oak phoenix]

https://pokepast.es/b0ad559771a82396

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[slender basin]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2577393275

Some more battle footage

[torpid moat]

hey, the mons chosen here are too weak to compete in the format, unfortunately most are just too frail, slow, or unthreatening compared to what's available. Also, just something to remember in the future, when adding bulk for your mons, you want to prioritize hp first, it's more efficient to go 252 hp rather than investing in both defenses

[halcyon panther]

Doubles OU (Gen 9)

• Sample teams
• Viability rankings
• Discussion thread
• Discord
• PS! room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[torpid moat]

check out the sample teams and viability rankings here, samples you can use straight away, but if you really want to build something yourself you can use the mons from the VR, and even click on the mon links to pull up sample sets

[summer geyser]

I see... Thank you 🙂 mainly put stonjurner there cuz I wanna create a team that can make him work well, though there are pokemon like tyranitar I could use

[waxen obsidian]

https://pokepast.es/8bbab74e48a648b7 yall the team useful or not ✌️? A whole bunch of mons that i saw and thoufht they were useful

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

oh I actually do have a stonjourner team if you want it

it's not particularly good of a team but it's at least constructed well enough to attempt to win

https://pokepast.es/50b08cd55ed37b83

basically this is a team that tries maximizing strong physical damage to an extreme degree

stonjourner is there as a secondary chien pao

while also performing a reasonable support role with stealth rock and scarf rock tomb/rock slide

diancie is by far the best rock type in dou though, followed by glimmora

tyranitar is actually not terribly good

the team I gave is quite unbalanced, but it's a very straightforward gameplan

also @summer geyser check out the doubles discord as well, it's below the sample and vr links earlier

[torpid moat]

hey, body press hoodra isn't totally unreasonable to build around, but you're going to want some additional wincons as well, there's too much support here and not enough offense/payoff

as it is, the team is extremely weak to np gholdengo, hoodra can't touch it and only incin can somewhat threaten it

also pawmot is just not a very good pokemon, it's too frail and the revival blessing is mostly a gimmick

I'd say the easiest fix is to cut pawmot for moltres-galar, and replace rilla and amoonguss with sinistcha for role compression/running fewer grasses

that gives you a free slot to address other issues

hoodra/goltres/incin/sinistcha/atales is 5

eh, just try kyurem last, goltres actually fixes most of the issues

[torpid moat]

hey, if you're actually playing dubers, you need to run 4+ real ubers to properly compete, only certain support non-ubers are viable, any attacking role needs to be a real legend like arceus or calyrex-shadow

if you're trying to play vgc, check out the vgc-rates channel

[slender basin]

Is there other pokemon that can fill that role other than goltres

i notice rillaboom is actually rlly handy for the passive grassy terrain heal and the fake out

what pokemon counts as a wincon?

also i saw ppl running around with oricorio and volc dancer combo, can those fit?

cuz volc can take out ghold, and we did still have one more slot

also, worth noting that the reason why i included pawmot is so that i have answers to flying type, a type that hoodra cant rlly hit as hard

[slender basin]

https://pokepast.es/badaeb59c76160ba

I checked marriland and this entire team is weak to rock, but i figured there isnt a lot of rock users in the game?

I did encounter someone using cloyster with rock blast, initially i used rillaboom to handle it

[torpid moat]

you should absolutely not use oricorio, it's a really frail and gimmicky mon that's worse than using a proper attacker from the start

[torpid moat]

the most threatening mon of all to hoodra is lando-i, who pawmot cannot hit, and pawmot really isn't a good mon to start with, as a snow team it's significantly easier to just run kyurem for the significant bulk plus answering lando

[torpid moat]

goltres is a strong ghold answer with ground immunity that also kills ghosts etc for hoodra

it also has significant natural bulk and can scale up damage very quickly

it's a natural partner for hoodra as well because goltres has trouble with diancie while hoodra can answer it

and goltres can hit mons like okidogi with air slash as well

a traditional snow comp is tales, kyurem, ~2 setup mons, healing source (sinistcha or rilla, sometimes pollen puff mew or amoong), filler (often incin)

sometimes ogerpon-hearthflame is used instead somewhere, either focus energy setup or as a follow me user

the most common snow setup mons are gholdengo, goltres, firepon, okidogi, iron hands, raging bolt, roughly in that order

but because you chose hoodra, all the other options stack ground weakness or are susceptible to wisp or similar

which really only leaves goltres as an option

[torpid moat]

because goltres levitates, rilla isn't ideal for healing, and sinistcha works very well next to incin because both mons are most powerful when switching in

incin sinistcha hoodra is also a reasonable semi tr package, which you can't normally do with ghold in hoodra slot

ah, I guess kingambit is another common setup on snow, though less common now, also has same issues clashing with hoodra

btw, you probably want protect>life dew on the hoodra, and flamethrower over heavy slam so you can hit sinistcha/amoonguss/ghold

and give it sap sipper for spore

which frees water tera

which is fire resist that walls tera fire ogerpon, which is a big problem for snow teams normally

[slender basin]

Wont that cause issues cuz it can be crit?

[torpid moat]

I mean, crits can happen, but they're quite rare unboosted

1/24 is really low

you simply just kill their stuff quickly before the crits become an inevitability

the grass immune is a lot more relevant

[slender basin]

Right

[torpid moat]

note that it will not make you rage powder immune like overcoat would

[slender basin]

Assuming i go for ghold instead of moltres tho, are there othher alternatives for kyurem?

[torpid moat]

you cannot run ghold instead of moltres

it will be way too much overlap with goodra

you can run ghold instead of goodra if you want, that'd be a more standard comp

there's no alternative for kyurem really, nothing does its job

you may as well not be a snow team if you're not running kyurem

just grimm goodstuffs

[slender basin]

Actually thats the thing

I was wondering if i should swap ninetales to grimm

In that case what sort of team members can help goodra out?

[torpid moat]

definitely waterpon then, easiest answer for lando-i

you could try sd waterpon as well, it's been seeing a little more popularity lately

your own lando-i is always useful too, good answer for opposing ghold

roaring moon is relatively popular on that kind of comp for speed control, though it's usually paired with ghold instead of the hoodra

maybe just go tornadus instead

dogi can also fit if torn

[slender basin]

I see

I'll try those out, thanks for the suggestion ^^

[slender basin]

hey so, wdyt of using baxcalibur instead of kyurem?

[torpid moat]

it'd be worse, but if you're not allowed to use legends for whatever reason then it's passable I guess?

normally you would run like clear amulet bax as one of the setup wincons on snow, but again, clashes with goodra

though it's a little better in this case if you go for thermal exchange over ice body to avoid burn

bax + lando-i could replace goltres + kyurem for example

it'd be a worse comp for sure though, very soft into ghold

[slender basin]

cuz of the lack of bulk?

[torpid moat]

it's less bulky and doesn't get to spam blizzard

which is the main draw of kyurem on snow

[slender basin]

i see...

[torpid moat]

no legal blizz user is anywhere close to kyurem in terms of power + bulk

[slender basin]

is volcarona a good alternative to galarian moltress?

[slender basin]

i'll try kyurem too, blizz sounds awesome tbh

i notice the team dies to rock, 4 pokemon out of 6, idk if thats a bad thing

[torpid moat]

incin runs boots and doesn't particularly count

[slender basin]

i meant the goltress and kyurem one

[torpid moat]

kyurem goes steel tera in that situation and runs flash cannon for diancie

[slender basin]

oh i mean, are rock attackers not that much of a threat in the meta rn?

[torpid moat]

goltres kyurem one is fine

having the tspike immunities is a lot more important than the rock weak tbh

volcarona pushes rock weak too far though

[slender basin]

i see

[torpid moat]

it's diancie and glimmora pretty much

and glimmora's main snow hate is setting sr + tspikes rather than the actual power gem

so goltres levitating is really important in this case

[slender basin]

so if i want to find an alternative to goltres, what am i looking for? a bulky wincon that can ignore hazards and deal with ghold?

[torpid moat]

the important parts are bulky, can setup relatively quickly, not weak to lando-i, has a strong matchup against dragon ghold

the last part is the most difficult constraint, few mons can beat np dragon ghold behind support

I'll tell you straight up that you won't find much else that can do those things

[slender basin]

noted... i might try out goltress to see how it works

[torpid moat]

goodra volcarona grimm is possible though if you wanna backtrack

[slender basin]

how so?

[torpid moat]

goodra volcarona(grassy seed) grimm rilla waterpon lando-i would probably be the 6

[slender basin]

i'll try that too

hey wb dragonite?

if it wears boots it ignores hazard, it can setup relatively quickly, its bulkier thanks to multiscale and has both EQ and ice spinner to deal with ghold

[torpid moat]

dnite wants inner focus, for intimidate + fake out immunity, and doesn't need boots either, but it doesn't beat ghold

ghold can be grassy seed next to rilla, which will halve eq damage while raising def

dnite also just isn't very strong immediately, especially on a nonstab move like eq or stomping tantrum

for example it can only really get away with espeed when it's cb and tera normal, ideally next to chien pao

[slender basin]

i see...

[oak phoenix]

Damn, but is Whimsicott not viable? It has priority tailwind

[brittle spade]

yeah but you're running 4 supports, a landorus and one real dubers pokemon

you can run whimsicott yes, alongside five legendaries of course

[oak phoenix]

True ig

[slender basin]

Hey so, apparently i like Baxcalibur quite a lot

im trying to make a doubles team for it, but so far i've only got 5 members

what should i change or add to help it?

https://pokepast.es/6e10190a64553d4f

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

Add a trick room user like porygon2 or necrozma

Or sinistcha

[slender basin]

why trick room?

[slender basin]

won't this conflict with fasterpokemon like wogerpon and such?

[brittle spade]

Because it works well with baxcalibur and incineroar

You could also run a tailwind pokemon like tornadus mew or roaring moon

Or even moltres galar

[slender basin]

i think i might try the tr version actually

[brittle spade]

You don't have to click trick room every game

Also a pokemon is only considered fast in sv if its faster than 350 speed

[torpid moat]

actually I think you add lando-i there

[brittle spade]

Works too

[torpid moat]

because the team really wants a legit ghold answer

you may even want to fit horsepower on bax over protect

[slender basin]

didnt incineroar answer it?

[torpid moat]

yes, but you need more

also you want knock off on it over lariat

[brittle spade]

You could do something funny like 252hp 252spatk heat wave tornadus

[slender basin]

tornadus fit in trick room?

[slender basin]

i might go for trick room in case the enemy does the same, it'd be effective against faster teams and can cancel out tr teams no?

[torpid moat]

you only have 1 slot left, and ghold works better with tailwind than trick room

ghold is already a great tr answer as well, between veil and incin you should be fine

[slender basin]

wait how is ghold a good tr answer?

[torpid moat]

also tales doesn't need all that coverage, it doesn't hit hard enough to warrant more than 1-2 attacks

ghold hits all common tr setters very hard

and can setup in the face of several like indeedee, diancie, hatt

[slender basin]

I see

Alright i'll go tailwind

Would roaring moon be a good counter to ghold?

Also assuming i go the tr route, are there other mons i could switch/include?

Im sorry for being picky about the mons, i just dont like lando's design-

[torpid moat]

yeah rmoon can work but be careful of okidogi, especially covert cloak dogi

it's probably enough of an issue to warrant wisp incin > knock off

[brittle spade]

On your 6th slot, over Roaring moon

[torpid moat]

yeah torn in 6 is also okay if you give bax horsepower

[slender basin]

Alrighty, thanks guys! I rlly appreciate it

[uneven garnet]

https://pokepast.es/3d5e67ff75109d27 guys any suggestion i built this team and made pokemon kinda ready for some of the team archetype like amongus having smog for dondozo-psych up teams

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[regal ridge]

https://pokepast.es/3519129572022846 played around with this team a bit and did well but i feel i need a gholdengo answer

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

Just run heat wave on armarouge and earthquake on ursaluna

[rose juniper]

and body press over gyro on diancie

not that that helps with ghold

but I would do it anyways

[regal ridge]

okay i had switched to gyro because i encountered some fairy and rock types using this and it seemed useful

[brittle spade]

i fixed some of your spreads
https://pokepast.es/02d1b5ca90789c36
i wouldnt worry about dondozo in dubers

[torpid moat]

hey, the hatt is definitely the odd one out, while the heatran is a little questionable due to the lack of speed control, I think a team like this would rather have tr diancie in the hatt slot because you already have a big package of incin + amoong for semiroom

[waxen obsidian]

alr alr thank you

[south stirrup]

https://pokepast.es/3282313f0da853f8

Might be the best team I’ve put together since C4

[brittle spade]

try this https://pokepast.es/25b5034c905e0e9a

[tired turtle]

https://pokepast.es/3ed8a555c1a0aa51
made this team for champions rules, any advice

[hollow oxide]

!champions

[halcyon panther]

Pokemon Champions has...

1. Yet to have a defined metagame as to conclusively answer what is trending
2. Yet to have an exactly known pool of Pokemon / moves / items / abilities / mechanics

As such, competitive Champions support is limited to glorified theorymonning, thus breaking rule 3 of #1373406929317269624 message and not allowed.

Please wait as Pokemon Champions releases and high level play is refined until further notice.

[hollow oxide]

point 2 no longer applies but point 1 still does

[bold root]

Add in the bugged haze

[tired turtle]

theres no theory crafting in a smogon discord?

[torpid moat]

theorymonning, not theory crafting

theorymonning is basically saying like "what if aerodactyl got head smash"

it usually leads to a lot of pointless hypothetical discussion

[tired turtle]

whats wrong with haze?

[tired turtle]

i see

[torpid moat]

there's a video going around of haze near-fully healing the user

lots of bugs in current build of champs

[bold root]

It heals to full

[proven jasper]

https://pokepast.es/1cc75862fea0fcb9

hi this is my lilligant sun team! pls be nice if rating😭

raging bolt is used for more dmg (life orb + protosynthesis ability) and to deal with potential water type threats

[wheat ginkgo]

for doubles uber
https://pokepast.es/45ad159bee005da4

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[wheat ginkgo]

rn im just not sure about arceus tera type

i could run ghost but then opposing calyrex could get me

[wheat ginkgo]

changed arceus' item to covert cloak

since i thought having weezing means i don't need to watch out for intimidate as much

[plain heart]

hi everyone i just wanted to ask if there has ever been a good team that has ceruledge in it, if there is can someone please show it to me (on a side note i made a team that looks like this but i wanted to see what u guys can show me first)

https://pokepast.es/1812434d67b7bc6e

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

no there's never been a good ceruledge team because it's just not a good mon, but i can have a look

if you're open to play it in duu it's definitely doable

[plain heart]

no i don't really

but its okay thank u

[brittle spade]

why not ? itll actually contribute meaningfully to your team. in dou it's just going to lose to every meta pokemon

[brittle spade]

this is too weak for dubers, it's not possible to reliably win games in that format with 2 ubers pokemon or less

reliably being the key word here

[wheat ginkgo]

yeah that's kinda fair

i think the team's biggest strength is just that weezing can shut down priority block for arceus

[brittle spade]

try something like this https://pokepast.es/73f7100d80e19b3c
tornadus is the most out of place pokemon on your team

[wheat ginkgo]

but hey i got to 1600 with this team im pretty proud of it

[brittle spade]

the priority blockers are shit in this tier, you could juse use miraidon to get rid of psychic terrain

[wheat ginkgo]

weezing tho

[brittle spade]

the dubers ladder is notably weak and not a very good indicator of how good a team is, you can ladder at 1700 with greninja and still have a 70% winrate

[wheat ginkgo]

fair enough

[brittle spade]

if you really want to play weezing in dubers its possible but you need to get rid of lando incineroar amoonguss

and a different set, cloak is useless

nobody is gonna fake out your weezing

[wheat ginkgo]

im not sure about amoongus
it's good against trick room

[brittle spade]

i can send you something in like an hour

with weezing

[proven jasper]

thank u sm!

[brittle spade]

something like this would be fine in dubers https://pokepast.es/1d31273981a308cf

[plain heart]

cause this is my first time trying doubles and i wanted to play where everyone mostly does

[brittle spade]

just run this then :
https://pokepast.es/0108970e9c801011

[summer geyser]

tried out a team I wanna try and refine with a pretty unusual pick in rampardos. with semi support tyranitar. though I lost, im glad that i managed to do something https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2026regi-2580050681

[brittle spade]

check out the vgc rates channel, this one is only for 6v6

[summer geyser]

ah... alright

[hollow oxide]

also make sure to include a paste of the actual team

using

!shareteam

[halcyon panther]

Pokémon Showdown's team database is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply save your team to Showdown's database and you can share your team offsite by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team, scroll to the bottom of the team, untick the checkbox to make your team public, and press the button that says Upload to Showdown database.

You can then take the link to your team and share that link to share the team with other people.

[plain heart]

okay thanks

[tranquil sun]

Eelektross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature

• Knock Off
• Volt Switch
• Giga Drain
• Flamethrower

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Will-O-Wisp
• Nasty Plot
• Dark Pulse
• Shadow Ball

Zoroark-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Shadow Ball
• Focus Blast
• Hyper Voice
• Nasty Plot

Overqwil @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Swords Dance
• Gunk Shot
• Crunch
• Aqua Jet

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature

• Bullet Punch
• Close Combat
• Swords Dance
• Knock Off

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature

• Stealth Rock
• Earthquake
• Flip Turn
• Liquidation

Im trying to re-build my antiweakness team

[quick pagoda]

Hi!! I'd like some revision for this team
https://pokepast.es/7f2e462ee80a13ef

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

All of those mons are bad in dou, if you really want to we can help you build around one of them but as this channel is focused on building competitive teams we'll advise you to include Pokemon from the viability rankings

[brittle spade]

Are you open to getting rid of kyurem black? You'd also really rather have the other calyrex with Indeedee-F and you don't need double redirection

[quick pagoda]

Sure ! I was thinking with Kyurem-B that I needed some physical attacking and that can tank a few hits to force enemies out or something like that

[brittle spade]

you can do something like this https://pokepast.es/ac0f0d4c188efda6

i tried keeping the three dubers you selected

[quick pagoda]

Just incase, I'm fine with Zamazenta being swapped out for anything else!

[brittle spade]

Zama is fine, it has a very good supporting movepool.
But you can also try calyrex ice incineroar Amoonguss trick room Sitrus berry/weakness policy magearna kyogre arceus-ground

Or ursaluna miraidon calyrex ice kyogre electric seed lunala iron hands

Similar builds and playstyle

[celest scarab]

https://pokepast.es/f84cdb08bf85fd64

champions doubles

glimmora is what im building around
ttar is ttar
excadrill and garchomp are ttars polycule
whimsicott is yummy tailwind
Orthworm is to round out with bulk and another steel type so glimmora can spam sludge wave safely

[tranquil sun]

Oky

[torpid moat]

nobody knows anything about champs yet, but you're definitely missing fundamentals, sand doesn't do much for supporting glimm, you would instead want complementary attackers and useful support

sand chip is also mostly irrelevant besides breaking sashes, running a bunch of sand immunes is not worth making your team so unbalanced, too much unnecessary overlap

if you want a ground type, just run glimm and chomp on their own, no sand necessary

or if you're dead set on sand, it should stop at glimm ttar exca

[celest scarab]

" complementary attackers and useful support" can you elaborate on this btw

[torpid moat]

no, I don't know what's actually good in champs right now

[celest scarab]

im relatively new to teambuilding

[celest scarab]

no like what do i want to look for

also btw weather is important in doubles from what i heard bc megazard y is a monster

[torpid moat]

mons that kill things that tank glimm or other mons, speed control, disruption like fake out

yeah I've heard about zard as well, but for that reason you don't want your entire team to center around sand either

I'm not sure how actually good whims is for example, but that's prankster tailwind potentially with fake tears

[celest scarab]

would just having glim and ttar be ok or will sand chip hurt the rest of my team

[torpid moat]

if you have ttar you may as well have exca

[remote edge]

champions is really new fwiw so it's probably hard for anyone to say right now

[torpid moat]

but yeah you can mostly ignore sand chip beyond that

[celest scarab]

i mean general archetypes instead of specific mons

[remote edge]

oh I see

[celest scarab]

is ddance good in doubles

[torpid moat]

not on ttar if that's what you mean

[celest scarab]

dnite?

[torpid moat]

not sure, idk what dnites are running

[remote edge]

p sure mdnite is a rain mon

[celest scarab]

huh

oh yeah thunder

[hollow oxide]

hurricane

[remote edge]

yeah hurricane + tw

[celest scarab]

https://pokepast.es/0503f5dc493b1c33

i got this rn

alolan ninetales to remove weather and aurora veil

whimsicott for tailwind

incin is incin

kingambit is generally good + steel type so i get to spam sludge waves

(i put sash instead of mental herb on cott mb)

[uneven garnet]

guys will incium do good on incin once its back as now no knock off

[torpid moat]

nobody knows

[celest scarab]

incin or incinium z

[uneven garnet]

incium z

as he dosent have knock off

[celest scarab]

huh

incin is still scary in doubles i think

[hollow oxide]

they're saying the z move

[torpid moat]

I don't think tales will be particularly helpful here if your goal is not losing to zard, you probably just want chomp

maybe even aerodactyl

[celest scarab]

glimorra outspeeds zard y by literally one point

its the whole reason im building a team around it

[torpid moat]

but zard y teams frequently have garchomp on them

[valid ridge]

https://pokepast.es/abea20976390995a
This team feels really strong rn but the rock slide matchup is so bad chomp/aerodacty alone can just completely plow right through me what do i do

[halcyon panther]

Hey @valid ridge, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9championsvgc. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[valid ridge]

best solution I can think of is to replace dnite with corv but idk about me rain matchup if I do that

[brittle spade]

this is for 6v6, there's a vgc channel for that

[torpid moat]

(and the vgc channel is currently closed because nobody knows what's actually good yet)

[fossil scroll]

https://pokepast.es/4b09b30a57bd7d84
Hey so i havent played comp pokemon in a while and even when i did my knowledge is surface level.
Is there any chance that a team like this could be improved to function in a format like this? or do i need to be spamming the meta mons lol or looking for other lower powered formats

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

Okay I think before I say anything (and to totally interrupt whatever ratpacker is typing)

what are you trying to do?

[brittle spade]

4 of those mons arent even duu so it's not really salvageable

[peak crypt]

Is your goal just to use Pokemon you like? Is it to try to execute a specific strategy? Something else?

[brittle spade]

you have three options, pick a mon you like and try to make it work in dou by pairing it with strong meta stuff, play some samples before you go back into teambuilding or make a team for duu

[fossil scroll]

i THINK try to set up as much support for meinshao or gallade which are probably horrible options for carries to sweep but i like them
i have articuno for tailwind
meowstic to reduce damage and hopefully get a few paralyzes in
and glimmora for toxic spikes and such
and incineroar is incineroar

but i really dont fully grasp teambuilding

[fossil scroll]

yeah i am trying to make meinshao or gallade work since i like them

rest are negotiable

[brittle spade]

teambuilding wise it's very hard to have both

you should just pick one

[fossil scroll]

i could just cut 1

and i assume gallade is a better overall option

[brittle spade]

and decide on dou or duu

[peak crypt]

The best home for Gallade is actually probably full Trick Room—it’s a reasonable add onto Indeedee stuff

[brittle spade]

or you can stick a grassy seed on it and have it hit stuff

[peak crypt]

Sacred Sword is a super clean answer to opposing Incineroar

[fossil scroll]

i would rather stick to dou since its the more popular format

[fossil scroll]

gallade
indeedee
ursuluna or armourouge as a second carry
what else should i be looking for in the team?

[peak crypt]

Mienshao on the other hand doesn’t really have a home in DOU or DUU; getting outsped by Ogerpon really sucks when you’re as frail as Mienshao

[peak crypt]

I’d probably start with something like Indeedee / Hatterene / Torkoal / Gallade

[fossil scroll]

why torkoal over ursuluna?

[peak crypt]

Gallade is sort of taking Ursaluna and Diancie’s place as an Incineroar check

and Specs Eruption Torkoal just murders things

[fossil scroll]

oh i see

true

have played torkoal before and he is hilarious

let me try to make a team rq and post here again

[brittle spade]

some dude was running this a while back https://pokepast.es/915b40ecaf75a057

spanish

[peak crypt]

I kind of vibe with Cornerstone

I think you want the Gallade to be Clear Amulet though

otherwise Incineroar is a rude dude

[brittle spade]

it dies to a lot of physical hits tho

i also have this with gallade i made years ago https://pokepast.es/00e46a8b200ae421

maybe itll give you some inspiration

[fossil scroll]

https://pokepast.es/716d076e28fb7516

does this look better?

[brittle spade]

no you're gonna have a hard time climbing the ladder with that

if you wanna go with those six just copy the sets i used and import the sample sets for incineroar and glimmora on the teambuilder

[fossil scroll]

SHOULD I be using incineroar and glimmora? or is there more synergtic options
i am using them because they are one of the few genericcally good pokemon i know

[brittle spade]

check the two teams i posted, it's stuff people have brought to tournaments

incineroar is fine although iron hands is probably better on the six you're trying

but glimmora doesnt fit on that team at all

[fossil scroll]

gonna switch it to either landorus or ogerpon corner stone

and check out iron hands

[brittle spade]

just run a standard assault vest set on iron hands

with fake out

[fossil scroll]

thats what i did

thank u very much

[peak crypt]

We’re not taking Champions rates in this channel—wait until the VGC Rates channel is reopened

Right now the raters there need time to learn the new meta for themselves

[normal dust]

you guys mess with ts gen 9 natdex doubles set

[torpid moat]

unfortunately all of the mons chosen are too weak for natdex, and the sets used for them look pretty suboptimal too

for example bronzong isn't even that great but its niche is levitate steel tr setter with either z tr + hypnosis or iron defense body press

life orb really doesn't make sense either, it doesn't have the stats to be threatening

[halcyon panther]

National Dex Doubles (Gen 9)

• Discord
• Pokemon Showdown! room
• Metagame Discussion Thread
• Sample Teams, Speed Tiers, Role Compendium
• Team Bazaar
• Viability Rankings

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[torpid moat]

check out the sample teams and Viability rankings here, there's some really really busted stuff in this format, you can't really compete unless you're running very high power mons

[normal dust]

Alr alr

[torn spindle]

Hey I need help choosing the final member and wondering if this is a good team
https://pokepast.es/dd1edbf695a8c305

[hollow oxide]

hey, for incomplete teams post in #comp-general

[torn spindle]

Okay thanks

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[elder furnace]

Just how bad is it ?

[torpid moat]

bundle and entei are a bit on the weaker side, you may be better off with chien pao + firepon instead, last mon lando-i for killing incin

[brittle spade]

some of those sets are very suboptimal
the nicknames are also quite distasteful

slowking has no use for blizzard as it would need to come back in after switching out, and the team as a whole doesn't care for snow being up

terrain extender is particularly bad since if your goal is to maintain terrain, it's better to run eject button

yeah im actually not gonna continue reviewing this, the nicknames gross me out

[feral whale]

https://pokepast.es/344c5df46975fc12

I haven’t looked at the meta game since restricteds came back so how does this look?

[halcyon panther]

Hey @feral whale, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen92v2doubles. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[feral whale]

In champs I wouldn’t use incin or chien pao

[torpid moat]

nobody is rating champs but half of these items are not in the game

actually I'm not really sure what the original format was intended for either

[feral whale]

Oh that’s kinda lame that the items aren’t in

[tawny salmon]

hello please refrain from posting pokepastes with inappropriate usernames

[opaque pulsar]

https://pokepast.es/804537dc40731c7e how is this anti-rain team? items are iffy I'm down for any swaps on those, also dont really know about rotom but all the other 5 are staying (champions)

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[quick cloud]

https://psim.us/t/1659995

Tried making a team idk what to improve but i like and I'm kinda new to the game tho I watch a bunch of videos all the time so idk

[uneven garnet]

indeedee is the only one who is benifited by psychic terrain so u could swap cobalion for his paradox form

and use expanding force

on both indeede in cobalion paradox

and why lugia

[quick cloud]

idk why not

who is expecting psych up Tera ground +4 earthquake from a Lugia

Nearly can't ohko him either

[brittle spade]

this is way too weak for dubers, you're gonna get smashed by standard teams for the format

either change the whole team to play dubers or get rid of lugia and basculegion and play this in dou

[brittle spade]

this is the channel for 6v6 pokemon, head to the vgc rates channel

[opaque pulsar]

Apologies

[torpid moat]

(the vgc rates channel is closed right now because nobody can give proper advice for champs yet)

including us

[opaque pulsar]

Yeah i just saw that lol

[uneven garnet]

there is a reason he is in the thumbnail of the worst legendary pokemon vid by wolfey

[crude zealot]

https://psim.us/t/1661510-oiry4vr29eoi5kpai8ps

My Gen9 OU team

[quick cloud]

Nah ez

[quick cloud]

Changed Lugia for metagross and kingambit*

[quick cloud]

Change and somehow winning way less since mister fish and big ass white bird are gone

[torpid moat]

are you still playing dubers?

[sonic vortex]

Okay I have a comp team
Mega Aggron, Drampa, Hatterene, incineroar, Trevenant, Sneasler
any improvements?

[hollow oxide]

you need to have movesets beyond just the mons themselves

[sonic vortex]

I am asking for the basics

but I can do that

[hollow oxide]

if you want help building out the movesets and such you can ask in #comp-general - the rate channels are only for teams with all mons and complete movesets

[sonic vortex]

thank you for the clarification

[quick cloud]

Nah tried dou but worked meh

[sonic vortex]

bad team comp?

[analog vault]

https://pokepast.es/7dee7da7d822a4e0 gen 9 Dou, struggling with some stuff like against rain teams, certain dark types, and being out of TR, any suggestions?

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

We can suggest better moveset for your six mons for dou if you want, what you're using right now isn't optimal

[uneven garnet]

https://pokepast.es/4f70288a7569bfab guys how is this rain team for champs vcg (should i remove bearatic for a poison or ghost

[halcyon panther]

Hey @uneven garnet, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9championsvgc. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

[hollow oxide]

hey, this channel is for smogon doubles, there is a separate channel for vgc. but champions vgc rates are closed rn until the metagame can develop more

because right now people aren't able to rate those teams well since we don't know enough about the meta yet

[uneven garnet]

sorry i thought that the meta was sorted as some ppl were rating teams and getting advice in genral MB

[hollow oxide]

no worries, just wait for the vgc channel to be unlocked

[uneven garnet]

k thx

[peak crypt]

Things in general are kind of “this is our best guess” right now. I would expect VGC Rates to re-open within the next week, but I can’t promise anything

[brittle spade]

Get rid of armarouge and run charcoal torkoal instead, I guarantee you're gonna stop struggling with rain

[brittle spade]

This seems to be for champions, so you should check out the vgc rates channel

[sonic vortex]

only mods can access the channel

[hollow oxide]

yeah it's closed at the moment because the meta hasn't developed yet for raters to know what's good

[sonic vortex]

well I made a small team and I wanted to see what people though

[echo lion]

https://pokepast.es/0d46d100af14da8a

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles Ubers RMT @torpid moat. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tacit blaze]

https://pokepast.es/fcab49cf3e814049

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tacit blaze]

need item reccs for cetitan and sandslash

[peak crypt]

I’m going to be completely honest with you: all of these Pokémon are awful except for Ninetales

and you’ve skipped the other two Ice types that are very good in DOU (Chien-Pao and Kyurem)

[tacit blaze]

i could switch titan for pao

pao doesnt benefit from snow tho so what's the point in a snow team

[peak crypt]

The most successful snow teams only run two Ice types anyway: Ninetales and Kyurem

Running five Ice types is just asking to get mowed down by Pokemon like Gholdengo, Chi-Yu, Incineroar, and Okidogi

[torpid moat]

don't forget diancie and glimmora

[tacit blaze]

iron heads and eqs

[tacit blaze]

chi and incin arent a threat till now. ill see when i get higher

[torpid moat]

it's not sufficient, they fake out once and then set tr

[tacit blaze]

actually chien might not be a bad idea against ghost

ghold*

[torpid moat]

and then kill your whole team under trick room with diamond storm + body press

or they set stealth rock once with glimmora, likely activating tspikes as well, and then your whole team loses half their health

here's an example of a proper snow team: https://pokepast.es/e3b5d03554d06449

[tacit blaze]

ok ill add rapid spin to slash

he'll be a good pair for chien pao getting his attack boosted

[torpid moat]

the ice type defense buff is not incredibly relevant, having a balanced team is much more important

[tacit blaze]

yea im just tryin out all my options rn

gonna add evio clops eventually

[torpid moat]

or you can just ignore everyone's advice, that's fine too

[tacit blaze]

and a water type

[torpid moat]

the valuable parts of snow are the veil and kyurem being a natural check for important threats like lando-i and waterpon

running more ice types just hurts you

[tacit blaze]

makes sense

[torpid moat]

this doesn't look like a proper dubers team at all, are you sure you're not playing vgc? you can just run kyogre instead of pelipper, and there should probably be an arceus and calyrex somewhere here as well

[tacit blaze]

would jumppluff be good support for an eq spam

helping pollen rage stunspore

[torpid moat]

no really no, but lando-i is excellent on snow for example

[tacit blaze]

im running volcanion for coverage idk how thats gonna work out

guess i should swap for lando then?

[torpid moat]

volcanion would probably be paired with sinistcha for the healing + trick room

[tacit blaze]

no tr here

[torpid moat]

kyurem/tales/volcanion/sinistcha/iron hands would be a possible comp for example

sinistcha learns trick room

[tacit blaze]

no i meant im not going for tr

[torpid moat]

traditionally if no trick room you want something like moltres-galar + gholdengo for your setup mons, but moltres + volcanion would be fine

I really don't recommend sandslash though it sucks

[tacit blaze]

was using him for spin

but eh

[torpid moat]

any ice beyond kyurem + tales is generally a mistake

glimmora is a better spinner for snow

because it goes positive into things like firepon

but you have to be careful of okidogi if so and run other mons to answer it like lando-i

it's often better to just eat the sr damage and run like your own okidogi to absorb tspikes though

[tacit blaze]

defog doesnt lower ur allies evasion right

im not smart enough for a snow team

imma just make a rain one

[tacit blaze]

ok so

https://pokepast.es/f78ece76ef588c35

this team has a good offense right

it guarentees i win a weather war with prankster dance and switch in toed

im just not sure who i should replace w skewda and frosmoth

both r plsceholders

[tacit blaze]

https://pokepast.es/c46f7d28136f8bbf

this is probably better

meinshao checks midcineroar

tornadus is an excellent partner with meinshao, lando and toed

[peak crypt]

I think you would be better off using some sample teams for a little while to get a feel of what Pokémon you can build around and what you need to worry about

[remote edge]

sludge wave is also horrible fwiw

you use sludge bomb on specific targets and turning the 2HKOs on them into 3HKOs is atrocious

it's not the biggest issue here but yeah

[peak crypt]

Sludge Wave also hits your partner

[sly fern]

https://pokepast.es/5645eb20f390fe26

[torpid moat]

there's too many grasses + fires here, you can prob go firepon > incin + amoong, that'll free space for something on your end to kill incin like lando-i

[tacit blaze]

https://pokepast.es/06dd1410ef5f788f

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @brittle spade, @peak crypt, @torpid moat, @rose juniper, @tight spire. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tacit blaze]

having problem with tr/ tr + psyterrain

do i switch ampi to grimm

immune to expanding and dragon energy

gets fake out

i could either screen to help survivability or

use spirit break/dark type on regidrag or bulky psychic types

is it a good idea?

but terrain is still bad bc i need to switch to corv to defog(even if he does survive both denergy and expanding)

but the thing is ampi was helping with fake out + upper hand

and uturn helped switch in to mons like corv or toed to help w setup

[tacit blaze]

i never need to use it lowk and if i do i can switch in to toed who has done his job, or corv

[lilac notch]

none of ur pokemon have protect

u can give tornadus orcorviknight taunt

there is really no reason for politoed to be running brickbreak

same with psychic landorus

and sludge wave hitting ur own pokemon

while not having any protects

hurts it

alot

ur basically playing a 3v1

defog is usually a singles strat since no one really runs hazards besides for maybe tinglu?

4 out of ur 6 mons are weak to raging bolt and i dont see any teras

[tacit blaze]

lando and torn do

[tacit blaze]

terrain and screens

what do i run on toed other than break

protect ig

saving my rain setter does help

[tacit blaze]

really dont need it other than ogre, hatt and rilla

and even then i have

bleakwind or pjab and can switch to corv

[tacit blaze]

oh yea terras

i genuinely forgot they exist

sorry for all de pings

thats tru taunt on corv would help

since he usually dies before hitting twind if i need it

didint know what else to put on lando other than psychic

i guess weather ball

but that leads to chip

and he'll get walled by amoonguss

now what should i start my matches with

ive been leading toed and ampi. fakeout into icy

or if no need for icy switch him to corv and switch out too

i am weak to ice types

onky have a single upper hand against priority. except that does work well in my favour since no one expects it

[tacit blaze]

need tera reccs too ig

[lilac notch]

yea but the rest of ur mons dont

half of them are really frail

[tacit blaze]

yea and they cant hit back either

regidrago is a pain in the ass