#Smogon Doubles Rates

1 messages Ā· Page 20 of 1

shrewd iron
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Pincurchin is bad, really bad

polar lotus
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I really miss Tapu Koko

normal aurora
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same

teal rampart
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This is doubles OU right?

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If so here is my team

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shrewd iron
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Your PokƩmon are missing protect, which is really important in doubles to block fake out, stall tailwind and trick room and in general make plays like protecting to let your other PokƩmon remove the PokƩmon that would be attacking the protected PokƩmon

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azumarill isn't fast enough to consider running speed evs

teal rampart
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And the trick room thing makes sense, considering my pokemons arent necessarely fast

peak crypt
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If youā€™re thinking about Indeedee youā€™d be better off with Sinistcha

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I canā€™t help out a ton this weekend, Iā€™m actually attending a VGC regional, but @rose juniper can probably help with this kind of rain build

teal rampart
shrewd iron
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But indeedee with follow me could be an option

teal rampart
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He loses 50% of health

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ITS kinda bad tƓ have a half less of health

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I Think at least

teal rampart
shrewd iron
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So you get killed before healing

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Also indeedee is probably not it since it would block aqua jet

rose juniper
polar lotus
polar lotus
tough timber
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can you post duu teams here

peak crypt
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Yeah go for it

torpid moat
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you can yes

tough timber
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tough timber
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i like regigigas

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any tips or suggestions to make it better?

tight spire
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You need to use weezing galar with with it if you're seriously going to use regigigas in any meaningful way, skill swapping pure power is an ultimately predictable and easy to counter gimmick, comparably, weezing can auto negate slow start and the opponents abilities as well which includes intimidate and weather abilities

tight spire
tough timber
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low synergy how

tight spire
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You're just trying to support regigigas and to an extent gargnacl who are not really good enough to get you far on their own

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When they're both out or when an ogerpon follow mes your medichams skill swap and takes pure power itself

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You kinda just lose

tough timber
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this is uu

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ogerpon isnt there

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also indeedee isnt support

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its offense

tight spire
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Please make that more clear, you're posting in the DOU rates and you didn't put DUU as your teams tier

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Also weezing galar is DUU afaik unless something happened

tough timber
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sorry it was like 4 messages abov

shrewd iron
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Ogerpon Cornerstone is DUU

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btw

tight spire
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Yeh ogerpon c can still steal yo shit

tough timber
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bro in all seriousness have you ever seen someone use the rock ogerpon

tight spire
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Yes

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It's very good iirc in DUU

shrewd iron
tight spire
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The DUU ladder isnt played enough for it to be a good representation of the tier

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If that's where you're getting that idea

shrewd iron
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Anyway, skill swap medicham is not really reliable due to it being slow, wheezing g is more reliable with neutralizing gas

tight spire
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Yea

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And it can be used outside of just regigigas support

peak crypt
tight spire
brittle spade
shut agate
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Could someone rate this team? Its main goal is to outspeed

shrewd iron
tight spire
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also you set this team to VGC reg i and not DOU

peak crypt
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To try to put it in nicer terms: being fast doesn't matter if you don't have the strength to back it up.

The Pokemon you've chosen are all pretty cool, but they aren't particularly powerful in a competitive setting. While going first is nice, it's not going to get anywhere when your opponent's Pokemon can still beat yours when they go second; you may find yourself struggling against common threats like Dragonite, Gholdengo, and Raging Bolt. You're sort of pointing finger guns at your opponent while they pull an actual gun off their belt. There are a number of ways for your opponent to mitigate speed advantage too; Pokemon like Amoonguss or Ogerpon can redirect your attacks away from opposing threats, and Pokemon like Indeedee and Diancie can use Trick Room to flip speed on its head. There's not much we can do to help with this team, because even with perfect sets, it'll still lose a lot of games because of the lower quality of Pokemon.

If you're still interested in playing DOU, I'd suggest checking the sample teams and viability rankings to get a good idea of what Pokemon are used in the format and how they are used. There's a message with links to both in the pinned comment of this channel, but I'll link it here too: #1059655497587888158 message

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@shut agate

latent scroll
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rose juniper
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Hey

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before I take a better look at this team

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is your goal to make a really good team or just have some fun with specific mons/style

latent scroll
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Once I have a feel for it I can try some gimmicks

rose juniper
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I would never recommend gimmicks

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but thats your choice

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eitherway

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sun is pretty good this meta imo

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but there are for sure a few things to change

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you don't have any particularly bad pokemon on your team so thats a good start, I however would still choose some diffrent pokemon but thats more my preference perhaps

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so ill just work with the 6 you got me

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lets start with the movesets

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torkoal is not a physical attacker but rather a special one

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normally id run something offensive on him but since he is mainly here for the sun support you could also make it a bit of a support mon

latent scroll
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i know the standard is special, but their attack stats are the same and i like having a spread move

rose juniper
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but why not heatwave?

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or eruption

latent scroll
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typing

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i normally pick it because of dragon types, but idk how prevalent they are here

peak crypt
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the Dragons are good but Earthquake is never going to be better than Heat Wave

rose juniper
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  • you don't hit your own guys
peak crypt
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a not-very-effective Heat Wave in Sun is dealing approximately the same damage as a neutral Earthquake

latent scroll
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i normally lead torkoal and wake, and they normally either fake out or double into wake, so I have to protect anyways

rose juniper
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you also have grassy terrain

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which halfs EQs damage

latent scroll
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it never normally lives long enough for that to matter, taking a decent hit to activate eject button and then dying on the next

rose juniper
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not to be rude but thats a bad reason to run a bad set

peak crypt
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0 SpA Torkoal Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 24 SpD Tera Dragon Gholdengo in Sun: 53-63 (14 - 16.7%) -- possible 9HKO
88 Atk Torkoal Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 40 Def Tera Dragon Gholdengo: 52-62 (13.7 - 16.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

brittle spade
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id run ninetales over torkoal here

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you really have nothing to support it

rose juniper
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or you could even opt for bolt over tork and run manual sunny day

latent scroll
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never been a fan of hyper offence

latent scroll
brittle spade
brittle spade
peak crypt
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if you are not a fan of hyper offense you should probably not be using sun in the first place, to be perfectly honest

rose juniper
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yeah thats a very HO oriented style in dou

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good point

peak crypt
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I'd argue this team already is a hyper offense team

rose juniper
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listen, ik we're here to help you on your team but instead id like to recommend something else

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and thats to first play with all the samples a bit

peak crypt
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between Wake, Lilligant, and Hearthflame, your team is designed to set up sun for these fast, frail attackers, then support them with Fake Out and Tailwind

rose juniper
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and figure out what you like

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and what works for you

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cause your team is a bit mixed in directions same with your taste and that makes it hard to find a fitting way to move on with your team

latent scroll
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are the team comps really that different for doubles?

rose juniper
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the current samples are imo quite good and give a good idea of what DOU has to offer

brittle spade
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i mean, in vgc too sun is HO

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team comps are different from vgc in the sense that you can't not bring a mon

latent scroll
brittle spade
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so niche sets are less likely to work

peak crypt
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hyper offense doesn't necessarily need to threaten a double OHKO turn 1 to be hyper offense

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there's one other thing I'd like to ask about

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@latent scroll can you tell me exactly what all of your EV spreads do?

latent scroll
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tbh most were yoinked from old teams for reg h

peak crypt
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you should always make your EV spreads with purpose

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if you don't know what a spread does, it's not a good spread

latent scroll
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tho wake is trained to boost speed

peak crypt
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if it's supposed to boost Speed, why not just run 244 SpA / 12 SpD / 252 Spe?

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does the bulk achieve a specific goal?

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and if not, why is it there in the first place?

latent scroll
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It was just a set I had lying around from vgc

peak crypt
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on offensive Pokemon you can often get away with max/max

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because you just want that Pokemon to be as fast and as strong as you can make it

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and if you don't know why a spread isn't max/max (or slightly adjusted, in the case of that Wake spread I posted), you should put in your best effort to either find out what it does or to find a better spread

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Ogerpon-Hearthflame for example almost always wants to be max Attack max Speed in DOU - Alolan Ninetales is a very prominent Pokemon, and hitting it with Ivy Cudgel before it can use Aurora Veil or Icy WInd is super important

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If you're using Life Orb, there's almost no reason to run bulk EVs on Wake and Lilligant, because you're going to damage yourself every time you attack anyway

shrewd iron
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Usually lilligant with torkoal has after you which let's torkoal go first, it also has focus sash and protect which is much better than life orb

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Also weather ball is special which is not good on a physical PokƩmon

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You're running 4 grass types which is a death sentence in a meta where tornadus hits both PokƩmon with a flying spread move but even things like heat wave would give you a lot of trouble

normal aurora
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Plus tera ghost is a better tera for lil because it can help you with fakeout

shrewd iron
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There are two directions with sun in DOU, it's either ninetales tornadus or a torkoal team with a trick room setter to make use of the high spread damage that torkoal has with eruption boosted by sun

latent scroll
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changed the set a bit

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changed out rilla for bolt, trading fake out pressure for speed control and better typing synergy

peak crypt
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the EVs are still not great, but this is objectively an improvement

tribal plinth
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some1 rate this

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tribal plinth
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W bot

peak crypt
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the Pokemon quality on this one is pretty low

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Indeedee and Gho are great Pokemon (though you usually don't play them together), Armarouge and Basc are fine, and Maus and Arc-H are in DUU for a reason

tribal plinth
peak crypt
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you also have the moves for NP Gholdengo but have Choice Specs. most Knock Offs will just kill you outright and Gholdengo is immune to Trick, so idk when you plan on using Nasty Plot or Protect

tight spire
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Yeah a lot of lower power pokemon here

tribal plinth
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ok

peak crypt
tribal plinth
peak crypt
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(and The Armarouge Gimmick is not going to catch anybody by surprise above 1200 Elo, at this point everybody knows how to play against it)

tight spire
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I would say thats a pretty do nothing indeedee also

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IndeedeeF is normally pretty weak but

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Here without any attack it's absolutely just there

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Also I wouldn't think you would need a covert cloak on maushold if you are running psychic terrain already

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Granted it's not the worst item for it

peak crypt
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I think Iron Bundle + Specs Gholdengo is probably a really good plan B for the games where the Armarouge gameplan fails (or just won't work at all), but I think the Maus should be that Bundle, and Basc + Arcanine really need to be better Pokemon

tribal plinth
tribal plinth
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what pkm u suggest instead of arcanine?

tight spire
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This is too much leaning into armarouge gimmicks

peak crypt
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your own Incineroar is an easy 1:1 swap if you want Intimidate, or you can just go for raw stats and run something like Raging Bolt or Landorus-I

tribal plinth
peak crypt
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another option is Cornerstone Ogerpon if you want to keep a physical Rock type around; it's also DUU but it's been proving itself in DOU recently (and would probably be DOU if it didn't have to compete with Wellspring and Hearthflame)

tight spire
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I think probably the flip turn iron bundle would be the best for this as you said Arctic

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That's the fastest option potentially and doesn't require tera on armarouge

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Bc wasting a tera on armarouge is bad

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And then you can use icy wind potentially to outspeed some things etc

peak crypt
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the Armarouge now has Tera Fighting with Aura Sphere; this team really appreciates any opportunity it can get to blow up something like Incineroar or Ting-Lu, because they threaten both Armarouge and Gholdengo

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Armarouge also got bumped up to max Speed because it really does need it; Scarf Lando-I is a relatively common set that you need max Modest to outrun, and this way you'll also catch a few more things against opposing Tailwind teams

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Gholdengo has a proper Specs set, Indeedee now has an attack

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Basc is now Scarf, because that's the only good Basc set

latent scroll
torpid moat
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btw @tribal plinth you can try cloak bundle instead of booster if you're going for the flip turn gimmick, dodges fake out and you don't get the feelbad of losing booster immediately after flip turn

tribal plinth
kind hatch
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
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saw the message before Chatot

tight spire
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whats up with the dudunsparce

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that doesn't eaxtly seem to be doing anything

peak crypt
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it's side Beat Up Tera Psychic

kind hatch
tight spire
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ic

kind hatch
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stored power

tight spire
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so like i don't exactly see the dudunsparce really doing much

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like even if you get the gimmick going

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all perfect

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got weakness policy activated

kind hatch
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It's actually really strong as long as there aren't specific counters

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Rattled gives it +6 speed

dire flint
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is the goal of this team to make the strongest team possible with dudunsparce or to just create a generally good team?

peak crypt
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I recognize that the Dudunsparce is the entire point of the team, but this format is stuffed to the gills with Dark-types

kind hatch
tight spire
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yea like incineroar just needs to fake out dudunsparce

peak crypt
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not a single one of these Pokemon actually beats Incineroar

tight spire
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and then have a trick room setter

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thne you just

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die

dire flint
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in that case you need more ogerpon hate

tight spire
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you don't even have a way to stop TR

peak crypt
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there are three raters here so I'm going to back out and let those two handle it

kind hatch
dire flint
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and ofc more stuff more stuff to deal with the many pokemon that wall dudunsparce

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I'd suggest replacing the rillaboom with an iron hands

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Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 136 Atk / 208 SpD / 164 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Adamant Nature

  • Fake Out
  • Wild Charge
  • Close Combat
  • Ice Punch
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this is the smogdex set

kind hatch
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I'll try that

dire flint
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I think dragonite is also replaceable

kind hatch
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Yeah, I don't use it much

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It was my last addition

dire flint
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how about

tight spire
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maybe an ogerpon?

dire flint
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replacing that with walking wake

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and then making the whims sunny day

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ogerpon wellspring also works

tight spire
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yeah ogerpon could also just go over maushold

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as a follow me target

kind hatch
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I like using maushold because it moves first a lot of the time when I use beat up and people constantly assume it's going for population bomb and try to use fake out

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I'll try Ogerpon though

tight spire
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ogerpon is generally way more versatile

latent scroll
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tight spire
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Ninetales maybe you can try doing a hypnosis set if you wanna keep it instead of choice specs

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I don't see ninetales otherwise doing much damage

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even with specs

latent scroll
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ninetales is mostly for closing out the game, the same kinda time sun will run out on opposing teams without rain or sandstorm

tight spire
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generally I just feel ike the actual fire type damage here is gonna lack a bit

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Torkoal is very slow and you don't have TR support for it for example

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a lot of sun teams actually may only use like

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Tornadus

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to set sun

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Torkoal should at least have heat wave

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bc it's liable to get hit by a move

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and eruption will weaken

latent scroll
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what should I take it over? I originally replaced it with gyro ball

tight spire
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is gyro for diancie

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bc otherwise I'd replace that

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now I'm not to big on Walking Wake despite being a sun abuser

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as I think you can do its job with bolt already

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and the liligant you got

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Ogerpon-H is a very good sun attacker if you wanna also consider that

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(ofc I'd probably use tornadus over whimsicott in that case)

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(cut down on the grass types)

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Torkoal prob I would take off unless you could get some tr support for it

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like a lot of older sun teams iirc used Hatterene + IndeedeeF psyspam

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here's a current sun sample team if you wanna take a look

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this one does have wake

brittle spade
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id replace torkoal with diancie

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diancie likes having sun up

slow ibex
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

slow ibex
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I donā€™t really know what pokemon to use in the last slot I was thinking galarian slowking but im not sure

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Any criticism is fine

brittle spade
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ogerpon really wants follow me when paired with setup gholdengo

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that last slot could just be support incineroar

slow ibex
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I donā€™t know any alternatives that could do the same thing

slow ibex
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I might remove the speed evs if tailwind can make up for it

peak crypt
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One of the things that makes Ogerpon so good is it can present offensive pressure and use Follow Me with the same set

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So you can throw out some Cudgels and then use Follow Me when you need a turn to set something else up

shrewd iron
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I would make iron bundle a landorus I

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landorus I is so strong in general and helps against fire and steel pokemon

brittle spade
slow ibex
brittle spade
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all the fake out users are slow enough so mew could do that as well

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without the inconvenient of dying when hit with any special attack

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like valiant

slow ibex
shrewd iron
brittle spade
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iron bundle is pretty much only good at beating landorus and ogerpon, which your team doesn't particularly need right now

amber aspen
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Is this good?

imagen.png
shrewd iron
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Skarmory and meowscarada are not good enough

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AV is not good on primarina

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Dragonite should've inner focus to block fake out and intimidate

amber aspen
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Oh wait yeah I thought I took it from a thread on DOU Meowscarada but it was OU

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oops!

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I'm really struggling to find a good DOU Meows team

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Can I ask for teams here or in comp general? Cause idk what else to do

cosmic pasture
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there is a server for DOU but meows isn't too good of a mon in doubles

amber aspen
cosmic pasture
amber aspen
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thanks!

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Fuck I didn't have a smogon account so I gotta wait 2 days to use it lol

cosmic pasture
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lmaoo

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in the meantime you can definitely send some builds here if you like

amber aspen
cosmic pasture
amber aspen
cosmic pasture
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you cant go wrong with landorus-I and maybe chien pao if you want physical attackers

amber aspen
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nod nod

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ok this is what I ended up making, any improvements I can make?

imagen.png
cosmic pasture
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i think that pivot moves are out of place on non scarf lando builds, change it to sandsear

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otherwise its pretty standard double genie offense aside from meows

amber aspen
cosmic pasture
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-atk u turn probably does less damage than a sandsear miss anyways

amber aspen
#

fair fair

shrewd iron
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you also have a lot of protect so you can double protect to dodge fake out

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team is fine

brittle spade
amber aspen
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I thought barely anyone plays DUU

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Also I don't only wanna use Meowscarada I have a gholdengo team I'm also using

brittle spade
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there's a duu circuit

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there's a ladder

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even though players won't be as strong there as the ou or dou ladder

main girder
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

main girder
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pls send help apart from jirachi and its build

peak crypt
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gonna be honest

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Jirachi is the biggest question

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what are Metronome and Body Slam doing there

main girder
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apart from jirachi

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i have many versions of jirachi and this is just a for fun one

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was the ppaste i had available

peak crypt
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like I'm down to vibe with Metronome but I think you actually really want Flash Cannon over Body Slam

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because the snow matchup is not great

main girder
peak crypt
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please cut Body Slam. you are literally Modest and running Flash Cannon takes this matchup from "you just lose" to "you have a strong plan"

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apart from Jirachi though

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I don't really like Protect Incin here

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and I think Sinistcha wants Rage Powder over Strength Sap

main girder
peak crypt
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Matcha Gotcha heals enough already, especially if you have a CM boost or if you pass to it with Volbeat

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meanwhile Knock Off is just very good on Incin

main girder
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soo knock off instead of protect?

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i never use incin

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hate it

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only team its in

peak crypt
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in the nicest way possible that is a skill issue

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Incineroar is an incredible enabler for basically the entire format

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while also soft checking a lot of things just with Intim / Fake Out / Parting Shot

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it's really good at creating space for whatever you want to do

main girder
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"skill issue" because i dont like using a poke

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lol

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its preference, i know its op

peak crypt
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a better way to say it is "once you figure it out you will learn to love it"

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overall outside of snow I can't think of any particularly bad matchups

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I can see fullroom being annoying but I think between Incin Rachi and Sinistcha you have the tools to stall it out

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oh yeah I'd also do Tera Ghost on Volbeat

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idk what Ground is doing but dodging Fake Outs sounds a lot better than whatever Ground is doing

amber aspen
torpid moat
main girder
torpid moat
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sandsear is very reasonable though for being a spread move

amber aspen
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I took the advice on sandsear

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That image is a lil outdated

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I'll send the most recent one when I'm home

amber aspen
torpid moat
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make the pao ghost tera for dodging fake out/espeed/fighting moves

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make meow overgrow as mentioned earlier, protean is actually a liability

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non-cloak torn wants ghost tera as well

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lando really should be steel or poison tera, ground is a little overkill and doesn't offer any defensive utility

amber aspen
#

okey

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I kinda wanna keep protean... STAB knock off has been invaluable vs Gholdengo

shrewd iron
amber aspen
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oh yeah

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I'm a bit silly

shrewd iron
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The only reason to use protean here would be to get more damage with play rough on iron hands

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But often you'll have already changed type

amber aspen
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so this is good?

image.png
shrewd iron
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Yeah

normal aurora
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Ive been playong vgc for so long so it feels weird seeing multiple uses of focus sash

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but yeah this looks great

dim merlin
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Chien-Pao @ Life Orb
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 64 Atk / 204 Def / 240 SpD
Jolly Nature

  • Crunch
  • Ice Spinner
  • Recover
  • Protect

Incineroar @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 164 HP / 172 Def / 172 SpD

  • Fake Out
  • Knock Off
  • Parting Shot
  • Protect

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Pollen Puff
  • Spore
  • Rage Powder
  • Protect

Basculegion-F @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 196 HP / 60 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Muddy Water
  • Ice Beam
  • Shadow Ball
  • Surf

Clefable @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 64 HP / 160 Atk / 124 Def / 160 SpD
Adamant Nature

  • Ice Punch
  • Knock Off
  • Drain Punch
  • Protect

Breloom @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature

  • Bullet Seed
  • Gunk Shot
  • Bulldoze
  • Protect
#

srry long msg

#

but how good is this

shrewd iron
#

Is your chien pao spread for anything?

#

Chien pao is not made to take hits

#

Normally it's sash

#

There are better grass PokƩmon than breloom like ogerpon or rillaboom, clefable isn't great but the set is really bad being a physical attacker instead of a special one

dim merlin
#

chien pao is pretyy meh

#

just wanted him to survive a hit

#

chanseys there for unawere

#

and breloom technician bullet seed is very strong

#

chanseys my dragon dance set up counter

#

i want it to do supereffective with ice punch

#

but i will change clef to special

#

i might use explosion metagross instead of pao

#

or a set up mon

amber aspen
shrewd iron
#

I suggest you take a look at the viability rankings to see what PokƩmon are good

#

Because the PokƩmon you are playing are pretty weak compared to the powerhouses of the tier

peak crypt
#

To be totally fair regarding the above: Pao / Incin / Amoong are great and Basc-F is pretty good

#

Clefable and Breloom are not

#

This team has a decent selection of support options but youā€™ll find it hard to win games without some more typical attackers, and Chien-Pao with bulk investment doesnā€™t put out the numbers it needs to do that

#

(and Basc-F runs entirely physical most of the time because Last Respects is legal and very crazy)

wide dragon
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
#

you won't have the space to really fit the support that ghold needs

wide dragon
#

ghold can go

#

before ghold i was struggling with cress, glim, and something else

#

i dont remember

#

like we can swap mons around

#

not just the sets

torpid moat
#

also if you're running pecharunt it should be poison gas, not toxic

#

yeah I'm looking for an example hang on

wide dragon
#

i think toxic has been great esp with ting lu

#

u just sit and put their whole team on a timer

#

rocks punishes too if they start switching around too much to avoid tox ticks

torpid moat
#

confusion should already be enough to force switches tbh, and poison gas confuses both

#

but yeah this one's a little outdated but the idea behind should be pretty clear

#

if you want more hazards, I still recommend glimm as well

#

@wide dragon which direction do you prefer?

#

I think the simplest is to go for a hazards + paonite build, but any of these are fine

wide dragon
torpid moat
#

ok in that case I recommend dnite > ghold to start, also run crunch pao to beat opposing ghold/cress more reliably

normal aurora
torpid moat
#

I'd consider running boots incin instead with wisp on it

#

you'll have some more trouble with mons like clear amulet hands otherwise

#

but yeah the only real way to fit speed control is to lean more into diancie sinistcha semiroom build

#

but that kind has a lot of issues with ghold and others

#

you really want to have shadow ball on pecharunt btw, one of your main targets is ghold and that can't be poisoned

wide dragon
#

ok ima test out those changes

#

and we will see how they feel

dim merlin
#

Primarina @ Throat Spray
Ability: Liquid Voice
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Def / 108 SpA / 40 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Hyper Voice
  • Draining Kiss
  • Shadow Ball
  • Protect

Incineroar @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 164 HP / 172 Def / 172 SpD

  • Fake Out
  • Knock Off
  • Parting Shot
  • Protect

Amoonguss @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Pollen Puff
  • Spore
  • Rage Powder
  • Protect

Basculegion-F @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 196 HP / 60 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature

  • Muddy Water
  • Ice Beam
  • Shadow Ball
  • Last Respects

Chien-Pao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 200 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

  • Crunch
  • Avalanche
  • Swords Dance
  • Protect

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 232 HP / 92 Atk / 184 Def
Adamant Nature

  • Stone Edge
  • U-turn
  • Taunt
  • Protect
#

new team

#

the shadowball tera ghost primarina is a wild card move

#

landorous is for another intimidate mon and cn also deal dmg

#

i put sash swords dance on pao'

#

and last respects on fish

#

all of these seem somewhat viable

#

in my opinon

#

avalanche is trash gonna change

#

same as land t's item

peak crypt
#

this is better in the sense that you no longer have Clefable and Breloom, but otherwise it hasn't improved much

#

Chien-Pao exists to click attacks and only to click attacks; it doesn't have time to bother with Swords Dance because it'll just die. Attacking with Pao is more likely to keep you alive long term by taking KOs

#

Basc-F runs full physical as a standard; Wave Crash outdamages Muddy Water by a huge margin and even outdamages Hydro Pump by a little. Base power means a lot. Usually Wave Crash / Last Respect / Flip Turn / Aqua Jet is your four, with Tera Ghost to buff LR even more or Tera Blast with a coverage type over Aqua Jet. Jolly Nature too, you need the speed

#

Incineroar doesn't run Protect. Fake Out replaces Protect's role as a move to avoid attacks and disrupt turns; you'd be better off with Flare Blitz, Taunt, or Will-o-Wisp in that slot

#

Lando-T's time in the sun has mostly come to a close, but it at least should be running Stomping Tantrum. Stone Edge as your only consistent attacking move is... weird. This slot would be much better served by using special Lando-I instead, or dropping Landorus entirely and running something like Tornadus that offers speed control

#

Primarina's really not great either, and Tera Ghost Shadow Ball doesn't really hit anything that Tera Water Hyper Voice can't hit. Draining Kiss is also a super weak attack.

#

the Amoonguss is almost great but you put Safety Goggles on it.

#

That's the item you use to beat other Amoonguss, not on your Amoonguss

#

Grass-types are already naturally immune to Spore and other powder moves, and you can just heal off the occasional sandstorm damage by switching out

peak crypt
# dim merlin the shadowball tera ghost primarina is a wild card move

to address specifically this line: everything you put on your team should have a purpose. I understand there's some appeal to being "unpredictable," but if you're sacrificing some of the strength of your Pokemon for the sake of taking a couple opponents by surprise, you're going to lose more games than you win. In other words, the surprise isn't a good surprise if it makes your Pokemon worse.

dim merlin
#

is shed shell good on amoongus

#

so regenerater always works

#

or roomservice so if the opponent uses trick room im the slowest

peak crypt
#

Amoonguss generally runs Sitrus Berry for extra HP, Covert Cloak to ignore Fake Out, or Rocky Helmet to deal a little chip damage when redirecting

#

Shed Shell only prevents trapping, and Shadow Tag is banned in DOU so that will almost never come up

dim merlin
#

might use covert cloak actually

peak crypt
#

Room Service isn't great because an Amoonguss naturally wants to switch out for Regenerator, and it's already the slowest Pokemon under Trick Room most of the time

dim merlin
#

Primarina @ Throat Spray
Ability: Liquid Voice
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Def / 108 SpA / 40 SpD
Modest Nature

  • Hyper Voice
  • Moonblast
  • Aqua Jet
  • Protect

Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 164 HP / 172 Def / 172 SpD

  • Fake Out
  • Knock Off
  • Parting Shot
  • Will-O-Wisp

Amoonguss @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Pollen Puff
  • Spore
  • Rage Powder
  • Protect

Basculegion-F @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

  • Wave Crash
  • Ice Fang
  • Aqua Jet
  • Last Respects

Chien-Pao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 200 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

  • Crunch
  • Ice Spinner
  • Swords Dance
  • Protect

Landorus (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 120 HP / 248 Atk / 76 Def / 64 SpD
Adamant Nature

  • Stomping Tantrum
  • U-turn
  • Taunt
  • Protect
#

i really like swords dance chien pao cuz it one shots everything

#

and they will struggle to double into it because of amoongus rage powder

#

and i kept the ice move on baso because i like the variety

peak crypt
#

variety doesn't win games

#

consistency and power win games

#

(probably with Tera Ghost on Basc, forgot to change that, whoops)

#

the only "weird" slot here is Icy Wind on said Basc, and that's basically there to get Landorus and Primarina to outrun a couple things that they wouldn't otherwise

#

or to always win Chien-Pao vs Chien-Pao by breaking their Sash and dropping their Speed

dim merlin
#

@peak crypt how do you use pokepaste

brittle spade
torpid moat
#

the rest looks alright, if a but lacking in speed control

peak crypt
lost bough
#

hi guys back with a shitty mon on my team just because i want to use upperhand
https://pokepast.es/2f9cac7211d7e5ff
can anyone help with this? bonnet feels out of place sometimes, and the lack of redirection is really bothering me because of the lack of protect on my team

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
#

which PokƩmon is supposed to be the shitty one

lost bough
#

quaquaval?

#

i mean its not that shitty but its definitely outclassed

peak crypt
#

There are three PokĆ©mon here who really should not be on a DOU team (Quaq, Typh, Bonnet), along with one thatā€™s just outclassed (Whims) and one that really needs specific partners (Clefairy without setup partners is quite bad)

#

So before I offer any suggestions

#

Walk me through this team build

#

Whatā€™s the goal? What are you building around, what does you want it to look like when youā€™re winning?

lost bough
#

the plan on that team was to use clefairy alongside quaquaval and typh is just the secondary sweeper incase of anything bad happens to quaq, the rest is just there to help me set quaq to sweep the enemy

peak crypt
#

All of these things are important to help build a team that youā€™ll both enjoy and succeed with

lost bough
#

im mainly building around quaq

peak crypt
#

Is it specifically a desire to use Quaquaval or are you just about that Upper Hand life

lost bough
#

both

#

im obsessed with both quaquaval and upperhand

peak crypt
#

There actually is a PokĆ©mon that uses Upper Hand wellā€”itā€™s AV Okidogiā€”and I think Quaquaval really wants Protect in that slot instead

lost bough
#

wait okidogi gets upperhand?

peak crypt
#

It sure does!

#

Typhlosionā€™s biggest issue is itā€™s directly outclassed by Chi-Yu, who almost* does more damage with Heat Wave than Typhlosion can do with Eruption. Base 95 Speed means it also just misses a lot of the formatā€™s fastest threats like Wellspring, Landorus, and opposing Chi-Yu

252 SpA Charcoal Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 888-1048 (231.8 - 273.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Charcoal Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 880-1036 (229.7 - 270.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

lost bough
#

damn it just barely does more damage

#

just by a slither

peak crypt
#

forgot a word there

lost bough
#

with heatwave aswell

#

thats crazy

peak crypt
#

Chi-Yu moment

lost bough
#

is chiyu just that strong?

peak crypt
#

Yeah

lost bough
#

btw im lowkey thinking of building a team with blaziken

#

cuz i cant build a team with lopunny

peak crypt
#

I think if youā€™re really set on using The Duck, Incin / Amoonguss / Quaquaval isnā€™t a bad place to start, and the Assault Vest actually gives Incin some more freedom to attack stuff like opposing Amoonguss and Sinistcha

#

Iā€™d probably add Tornadus and Chi-Yu from there and make the last slot something that can really mess up snow teams

lost bough
#

politoad maybe?

peak crypt
#

Nah, Tornadus is good enough of a weather setter that you do not need to add ā€œbadā€ PokĆ©mon

#

Politoed has seen better days

lost bough
#

wasnt politoad used to be the staple of rain teams?

peak crypt
#

Used to be, but itā€™s been usurped by Pelipper and even that is struggling a bit now

lost bough
#

rain team is just failing in general?

shrewd iron
#

Yeah rain is in a bad spot after archaludon ban

peak crypt
#

also in hindsight Chi-Yu + Incin is stacking types a little too hard

shrewd iron
#

It can be played with kingdra or basculegion or just ogerpon wellspring landorus but it feels a bit lacking atm

lost bough
peak crypt
#

You could actually swap the Chi-Yu for a Chien-Pao and run Cornerstone Ogerpon in the last slot here

lost bough
peak crypt
#

Pao is both a great Pokemon on its own and it makes the duck do more damage

lost bough
#

oh right

#

hold up

#

should i run encore instead of taunt on tornadus?

peak crypt
#

You could also probably build one of those Howl Gouging Fire teams around the duck rather than going for this Tornadus Incin Amoong setup

lost bough
#

nbm

#

doesnt have it

peak crypt
#

Tornadus does not learn Encore :(

#

If it did it might be banned ngl

lost bough
#

yeah

#

prankster boosted encore

#

even whimsicot is wreaking havoc with it

#

i cant imagine tornadus with it

#

should i even use muddy waters (attempting to recreate my lost kingdra team

#

im afraid of the 90

golden apex
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
#

heatran really want heat wave over flamethrower and to reach 204 speed

#

the team is fine with those changes i think

golden apex
golden apex
brittle spade
#

you prob don't need that much speed on cress

#

i wouldn't put any

brittle spade
golden apex
brittle spade
#

my guess is you put it to reverse opposing trick room

#

but clicking calm mind in front of a fullroom team does the same

golden apex
brittle spade
#

just click icy wind

golden apex
#

by that time my mons are usually fainted

#

like tornadus sun teams

#

also covert cloak and clear body and stuff is pretty common

brittle spade
#

you should not struggle against torn sun teams with cm cress hands heatran moon

golden apex
#

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Calm Mind
  • Psychic
  • Icy Wind
  • Lunar Blessing
#

is this better

brittle spade
#

don't bother with modest

#

just run bold or calm

golden apex
#

ok

#

Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Protect
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Flamethrower
  • Earth Power
#

is this better for heatran

#

the 56 speed EVs is so now that its 204 speed

brittle spade
#

yeah that's better

#

you don't want ursaluna bloodmoon to outspeed you

#

id really run heat wave

#

spread moves are very good

#

if you struggle you can try changing teras on hands cress heatran

#

or putting an assault vest on heatran

#

or making roaring moon more bulky

golden apex
#

icl

#

this team really struggles against hard tr teams

#

i was only able to win this because of a lucky double protect at the end

#

i think tr on cresselia is pretty important so i can undo othet tr, since it takes too many turns for cresselia to set up meaningfully with cm and even then it doesnt do a lot

brittle spade
#

or double targeted indeedee

#

turn 3 and turn 4 you could have clicked psychic on diancie

golden apex
brittle spade
#

turn 7 you sack lando for no reason

brittle spade
#

you can't do that if diancie stays at full health

#

your team is fine but now you need to improve on ingame plays

#

if you're not able to capitalize on the turns where trick room isn't up, there's no point in reversing trick room anyway

#

the other solution if you want trick room is getting rid of icy wind psychic and running trick room moonblast and keeping calm mind

golden apex
#

Ok ty

golden apex
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

golden apex
random parrot
#

You are rly weak to intim

golden apex
#

yeah

torpid moat
#

that also lets you switch to clear amulet sd hands and then make waterpon a support set

#

should be a fairly reasonable semiroom in that case

#

also don't bother with acro roaring moon, breaking swipe is a lot more reliable

shrewd iron
#

Oh you mean landorus I over landorus T and incineroar over heatran yeah makes sense

golden apex
golden apex
#

flash fire is quite valuable imo

#

torkoal and chi-yu are very common

torpid moat
#

and more importantly, adding incin lets you use better mons/sets elsewhere

#

notably, clear amulet sd hands is an excellent incin answer and works very well with sinistcha, but you only justify it if you have fake out available elsewhere on the incin to enable trick room

#

and intimidate on the incin means lando t isn't as necessary, which lets you bring the much stronger lando-i for killing fires like chi yu and torkoal

golden apex
#

thing is, life orb heat wave also just does a lot of consistent damage

#

like chi-yu ofc is also an option to do that but its nowhere near as bulky as heatran

#

also, i'd like to have atleast 2 strong special attackers on my team, in heatran and lando-i (i replaced lando-t)

golden apex
#

since i have tw on roaring moon as a form of speed control

#

i have too many physical attackers here already

#

i dont want to use incin instead of heatran, since im using heatran as the damage-dealer here mainly, not iron hands, so i dont think its especially useful to try and support hands for a clear amulet set

shrewd iron
#

Paint is giving great suggestions, you should try and see if it's better

peak crypt
#

When you have Trick Room on your team, that counts as a tool against opposing Tailwind teams

#

or just any team thatā€™s fast enough to contend with yours

#

Beating TR with a team like this often doesnā€™t require you actually remove TR at all

#

and yeah Paint is 100% correct

#

Heatran isnā€™t a bad Pokemon but youā€™re kind of refusing to take off the training wheels by keeping it on the team

#

Removing it will allow you to run better PokƩmon and better sets

golden apex
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shrewd iron
# golden apex https://pokepast.es/f59b0ef2dffa5ed5 is this similar to what u guys possibly mea...

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/iron-hands-swords-dance-gc-0-2-gp-0-1.3765587/
I'll give you a guide about iron hands swords dance I recently wrote, it's still work in progress and might have grammatical errors but it will give you an idea

Smogon Forums
Iron Hands Swords Dance (GC 0/2) (GP 0/1)

[SET]
Iron Hands Swords Dance (Iron Hands) @ Clear Amulet / Leftovers
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Water / Grass
EVs: 136 Atk / 208 SpD / 164 Spe or 164 HP / 136 Atk / 208 SpD
Adamant Nature OR Brave Nature
IVs: 31 Spe or 0 Spe

  • Swords Dance
  • Drain Punch
  • Ice Punch / Fire Punch
  • Protect /...
golden apex
#

ty

shrewd iron
#

You need protect on iron hands so it can sweep better, no need for wild charge because 98% of the time you will click another move and the recoil is detrimental

golden apex
#

alright

#

Iron Hands @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 164 HP / 136 Atk / 208 SpD
Adamant Nature

  • Swords Dance
  • Ice Punch
  • Drain Punch
  • Protect
shrewd iron
golden apex
#

i basically want it to outspeed other iron hands

#

because honestly most of the time, im not gonna be clicking tr with this team until my opponent also clicks tr

#

or if the opponent's team is exceptionally fast

peak crypt
#

A lot of Iron Hands run up to 177 Speed for Tailwind

shrewd iron
#

^

peak crypt
#

If you go much faster you start losing a lot of the stats that actually matter

golden apex
#

rn i dont have any evs in speed

#

i dont have negative ivs either

#

its neutral

shrewd iron
#

31 IVs in speed with no investments is awkward

golden apex
#

im gonna try the fast one

#

yea i like the clear amulet hands quite a bit for beating incineroar

#

but i dont like losing heatran honestly

#

i might try this team without incin maybe

#

idk i just want like a good, bulky spread special attacker

#

i have lando-I already, but i want another

#

also because sandsear can miss a lot

#

what about like volcanion with will-o-wisp

peak crypt
#

Heatran doesnā€™t even beat the formatā€™s actual two best Fire types

#

Incineroar doesnā€™t need to use Flare Blitz to make an impact and Ogerpon-Hearthflame just ignores Flash Fire

#

There arenā€™t really any great Pokemon in the format that specifically do something like Heatran because theyā€™re all either outclassed by something else or they have some really awful matchups

#

Most bulky special attackers donā€™t hold a candle to Raging Bolt, or struggle to beat Landorus, or donā€™t pose anywhere near the same threat as Gholdengo

#

The closest thing around to Heatran is probably Kyurem and that Pokemon is more or less locked to snow teams

golden apex
#

could u pls suggest a spread special attacker for this team in addition to landorus then

#

im trying incin instead of that rn, but idk i dont think its doing enough

#

actually maybe

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
#

you're so weak to glimmora

#

id go focus energy on the ogerpon over swords dance, it would be better into screens

golden apex
#

alright

amber aspen
#

How can I improve this team

imagen.png
golden apex
#

Isn't this a sample team

peak crypt
#

Nope, the sample version has Bolt over Hands

golden apex
#

Oh

amber aspen
#

I also changed some other stuff

#

Changed EVs on Tornadus and gave him Taunt

#

Also I think the sample has heavy duty boots incin

#

But the fact that no one's saying anything makes me hopeful that the reason is that there's no glaring issues

torpid moat
#

I think bolt was better, and at the very least I'd have cc hands over drain punch, but at this point any change you make will have upsides and downsides

normal aurora
dim merlin
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tight spire
#

Like Alolan Ninetales with agility

#

what is that supposed to do

dim merlin
#

outspeed

tight spire
#

you're already a very fast pokemon

#

a9 is 109

#

most common things aside from ogerpon generally don't outspeed it

dim merlin
#

okay ill change to aurora veil

tight spire
#

you also are using ice beam on it

#

when you could be using blizzard

#

because snow warning lets blizzard be 100% accurate

#

the Landorus therian has tera ground but no ground type moves

#

and it has boots fsr

dim merlin
#

yea gonna change the teras

#

needa do that

tight spire
#

aside from all that I don't really see these pokemon working well together

#

with these movesets

dim merlin
#

ice storm gives fezandipiti better icy wind

tight spire
#

Heatran should have heat wave at least

#

that ogerpon-w set looks like a singles set

#

I think probably you may just wanna use a sample team

dim merlin
#

sample?

tight spire
#

teams that are built for players starting out

#

like the offensive power of this team kinda only exists with like

#

gholdengo

dim merlin
#

bruh ive been playing for a while teambuildings the best part

#

but ill make a new onne

tight spire
#

if you wanna make a snow team (which is what you'd generally be doing if you had alolan ninetales) here's some teams you can look at:

Ann's Snow:

dim merlin
#

so put suicune and kyurem in

tight spire
#

you CAN

#

the suicune will only benefit from snow if you run sinistcha

#

and incineroar

dim merlin
#

why

tight spire
#

because its a defensive pokemon that relies on healing from sinistcha and incineroar to weaken pokemon

#

so it can set up Calm Mind and then spam blizzard

dim merlin
#

but sinischa is running trick room?

tight spire
#

yes but it also has a healing ability

#

and really helps keep the team alive

#

sinistcha setting trick room helps the other parts of the team

#

like ursaluna

dim merlin
#

can amoongus be used?

tight spire
#

yes it can

#

pollen puff also works

#

but its not as easy to heal as you have to use a move instead of just switching the pokemon in

dim merlin
#

is fezandipiti still good

#

for icy wind and tailwind

tight spire
#

not really

#

it's a do nothing pokemon

#

that just sits there and does barely any damage

#

tailwind isn't justifying it

dim merlin
#

is boots better on sinistcha and incin uses herb to win the matchup against other incin?

tight spire
#

boots is only good on incineroar

#

why would sinistcha use boots

#

stealth rocks may be somewhat more common in DOU than like VGC

#

but not enough to justify it on anything else usually

dim merlin
#

ok

#

and what about foul play because the sinistcha has a dark tera

#

because im not using trick room

#

it could take down some strong mons

tight spire
#

tera dark is just to counter taunt from prankster users and the occasionaly psyspam

#

foul play uh

#

who would you intend to target

#

like what

#

ursaluna

#

you already have matcha gotcha

#

you really should keep trick room if you're using it and you have some slow pokemon

dim merlin
#

ghost types and big attack stat targets

tight spire
#

it also helps counter trick room

#

no you gotta be specific with what somethig is supposed to counter

#

like gholdengo and other sinistcha are the ghost types in this meta

#

maybe you'd see a dragapult every so often

#

and foul play doesn't work well on them

lost bough
#

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2375792900-mnld0iweme082erysxh6n6fubhcgymypw (i fixed the moveset mistake, anything else i could've done better or was i just killed by my own team building mistake)
https://pokepast.es/2f50f30bda5570e2 (fixed team)
also im just trying out some uncommon mons

[Gen 9] Doubles OU: getacardin vs. VeLocitysssss - Replays - PokƩm...

Watch a replay of a PokƩmon battle between getacardin and VeLocitysssss! Format: [Gen 9] Doubles OU; Date: May 31, 2025

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
#

you also would've easily won if you'd clicked flower trick with meow instead of a resisted sucker

#

and speaking of meow, it should really be running knock off there over sucker, no need for that on scarf

#

stellar blast kingdra also doesn't make much sense, just use hurricane

#

similar for cloak pecharunt, it's already fake out immune so it's just unnecessary

peak crypt
#

where is Scizorā€™s item

lost bough
lost bough
#

btw does no item acrobatics on scizor get technician boost or no?

peak crypt
#

I think the big questions you need to ask yourself here are:

#

what purpose do these sets serve, and do you need that purpose?

peak crypt
lost bough
#

aw man

#

tbh for my usual team building i follow a rule of thumb, its usually a core, followed by series of support (pivots blah blah blah) and a secondary sweeper incase things goes south

peak crypt
#

for example, why is the Meowscarada Scarf? Itā€™s not outspeeding anything Kingdra wonā€™t already outspeed

#

Why is the Pecharunt a Pecharunt at all if itā€™s just attacking, instead of a Gholdengo or a Glimmora?

#

When youā€™re using less common PokĆ©mon, you need to think more about what they offer that a better Pokemon canā€™t

#

Otherwise youā€™re just using mediocre Pokemon

peak crypt
normal aurora
#

If there was anything I learned from pecharunt in ffa

#

srsly unless the enemy carries both ghold and amoonguss

#

that move with screw them over so much

#

(and ig hex on pecha could also be really useful)

lost bough
#

mhm, alright thx for the input

latent scroll
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shrewd iron
#

Torkoal assault vest is peculiar, you would rather it be charcoal to have more damage and free a slot for protect

#

Malamar baton pass is cute but I think it would be better with knock off

#

Lilligant hisui needs fake out to dodge protect, while Entrainment is a cool gimmick you don't have any good targets to use it on

peak crypt
#

I think this six is just a little too teched out

#

I agree that Entrainment doesnā€™t really help any of your allies, and while sticking it on an opposing Diancie or something to suddenly make them fast in TR sounds funny I donā€™t think thatā€™s worth losing a slot

#

Petal Blizzard also just seems worse than Close Combat; spread moves that hit your allies arenā€™t great

#

Sub Cress is very weird too

#

Specs Bolt sounds hilarious though

latent scroll
latent scroll
latent scroll
latent scroll
peak crypt
#

some of your EVs are also a little messy

#

generally you just want to max HP before you invest in defenses; this rule is only broken when Pokemon have significantly higher base HP than defenses

#

for example, 232 HP / 4 Def / 20 SpD on Bolt is a bulkier EV spread than your current one

#

252+ SpA Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 108 SpD Raging Bolt: 474-560 (121.2 - 143.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Raging Bolt Outrage vs. 0 HP / 148 Def Raging Bolt: 186-218 (47.5 - 55.7%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 232 HP / 20 SpD Raging Bolt: 524-618 (116.7 - 137.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Raging Bolt Outrage vs. 232 HP / 4 Def Raging Bolt: 216-254 (48.1 - 56.5%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO

#

this is technically a little less physically bulky - I just plugged it into an EV optimizer tool - but you can outright remove the SpD EVs and put them in Defense and you'll still have more special bulk from the HP EVs

latent scroll
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
#

Baton Pass is like

#

genuinely not good

latent scroll
#

i was debating it over protect

peak crypt
#

Knock Off will be way better on Malamar and Protect will be way better on Diancie

#

BP seems good on paper but both of these Pokemon can do a lot of damage on their own

#

and they are very happy to keep their boosts to themselves

latent scroll
#

i mean one boost from contrary intimidate given to ursa can sweep allot of the time

#

i'll change it over on diancie, but idk about malamar

peak crypt
#

yeah but

#

Malamar can do that too.

#

and instead of just using Malamar itself to hit with boosted Knock Off or hit things with Superpower, you're exposing your Ursaluna to damage for a turn

#

or Diancie or whatever else you Pass to

#

you have Specs Torkoal and Specs Bolt too

#

you do not need to boost your damage further

#

you will win more games by just hitting your opponent in TR than by trying to pass boosts

#

running Knock Off on Malamar also lets you run double Ground move on Ursaluna, which makes it a lot more effective

latent scroll
#

when i did run headlong i basically never clicked it

#

plus the tera stab

peak crypt
#

Headlong Rush is barely doing less damage than super effective Tera STAB Shadow Claw

#

Facade is doing the same damage as super effective Tera Shadow Claw

#

and in the event that you can't dedicate Tera to Ursaluna, Malamar's Knock Off will outdamage it even when you factor in Guts, and Knock only gets better if you have boosts from Contrary

252+ Atk Malamar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Sinistcha: 242-288 (69.9 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Sinistcha: 236-278 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

mellow python
#

Sun Team I made for DUbers to beat my friends Rain Team

20250605_131314.jpg 20250605_131319.jpg
#

Sry for bad quality

peak crypt
#

you are playing the format with Arceus in it

#

why are you limiting yourself to one Uber?

mellow python
#

Ik Thunder Fang doesn't make sense on GF, but a certain Water Bird needs to be taken care of somehow

torpid moat
#

hisui lilligant is also considered just better than venu in pretty much every way

#

much faster, sleep powder user, stronger attack in close combat, access to after you

#

also if you're gonna run gouging it better have howl

mellow python
mellow python
#

Like Archal

#

Thunder Fang cuz of peliper

#

Idk if I'll keep SRocks on Torkoal

#

Venu is great when it came to bulk and damage plus with chlorophyll it outspeeds all of his team

#

But I haven't fought him in awhile, so he hasn't dealt with this team

polar lotus
#

https://pokepast.es/c6677aad05da4730
im pretty new to vgc and golduck is my favorite pokemon, found a way to get to 1400 with this team but the battles have been pretty rough in higher elo, not sure about much of the meta.

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tight spire
#

But regardless

#

Still not sure how far you'd get with the Golduck

#

I kinda feel like you can fit a Gholdengo on this

#

With the Amoongus and all

#

I'm not sure if the use of Grimmsnarl here is really warranted additionally

polar lotus
#

what are any good subs?

tight spire
#

Potentially Gholdengo as I recommended

polar lotus
#

in place of grim?

tight spire
#

Yeah but let me see if I can show u a sample with some similar stuff

#

This is tornadus setting rain for Gholdengo and ogerpon

#

I think you can also probably cut Amoongus for something like Incineroar if you feel up to it

#

Or wanna cut on grass types

#

Ogerpon ofc works with Gholdengo as well

#

Which is my train of thought

polar lotus
#

wait why set rain for gholdengo?

#

is it just for fire matchup?

tight spire
#

Bc it benefits from weakening fire types yes

#

And Gholdengo will also cover snow pokemon

#

Which will try to freeze dry you

#

And mess your shit up

polar lotus
#

that makes so much sense

#

thank you

tight spire
#

šŸ‘

gilded prairie
#

can i get someones opinion on my doubles OU team?

#

Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 128 Hp / 252 SpA / 128 SpD
Quiet Nature

  • Eruption
  • Heat Wave
  • Rapid Spin
  • Protect

Walking Wake @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Hydro Steam
  • Draco Meteor
  • Roar
  • Weather Ball

Amoonguss @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Pollen Puff
  • Spore
  • Sludge Bomb
  • Clear Smog

Incineroar @ Eject Button
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature

  • Parting Shot
  • Flare Blitz
  • Fake Out
  • Will-O-Wisp

Lilligant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • After You
  • Helping Hand
  • Pollen Puff
  • Sleep Powder

Dragonite @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Jolly Nature

  • Scale Shot
  • Dragon Dance
  • Extreme Speed
  • Earthquake or Waterfall
shrewd iron
# gilded prairie Torkoal @ Charcoal Ability: Drought Tera Type: Fire EVs: 128 Hp / 252 SpA ...

Starting with the sets:
Torkoal needs eart power for diancie and other rarer rock PokƩmon
Walking wake would be better with flamethrower because the risk of not having the sun up for 10 BP isn't worth it, maybe I would put protect on walking wake because roar is a bit too situational and you don't really struggle with trick room due to amoonguss and torkoal
Incineroar eject button sounds like a good idea but then when you want to get a wisp or parting shot onto the opponent and you get switched out isn't a good feeling
Lilligant support it's cute but it would be better offensive and hisui (solar blade stab is really strong)

#

Now to team composition, dragonite isn't great and I feel like it could be something else

#

In sun teams other than lilligant usually there's also a trick room setter like farigiraf to use torkoal offensive capabilities another way and also fight opposing tailwinds

#

Incineroar here is a bit weird because I understand the need to help setup dragonite but dragonite setup isn't really it

#

Sun really wants to be offensive and use PokƩmon like ogerpon heartflame

gilded prairie
#

i think i should probably explain how i play the team, your right, if the other team bring trick room i usually win the match up due to torkoal and amoogus. Normally my two leads are either dragonite and amoogus or torkoal and lilligant

#

with dragonite and torkoal the idea is to use amoogus to sleep the other pokemon and heal dragonite with pollen puff while i tera dragonite to normal(to negate its weaknesses and give e-speed more power) and then set up with it with dragon dance and scale shoot

#

with the torkoal and lilligant lead the whole idea is fast instant damage. Due to lilligants ability chlorophyll it outspeeds everything in the sun so i use the move after you so that torkoal moves right after lilligant to get and eruption off

#

i was thinking of actually changing lilligants pollen puff to a grass move to help deal with the rock types while torkoal is on the field

#

with incineroar, yeah the eject button is a choice and you are correct with it sometimes being difficult to get a will-o-wisp off when i need it

shrewd iron
#

Yeah but I feel like you can do better things than trying to setup dragonite, dragonite dice is weak to intimidate, also btw a setupper should have protect to be able to reposition

gilded prairie
#

your right but i find he is a great lead into rain teams cause i get to keep my sun in the back while i lead with two pokemon the resist water moves

#

but i might switch out weatherball on walking wake to flamethrower cause i dont use it often anyway

acoustic yoke
#

Hello!

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

acoustic yoke
#

Here is a ursaluna blood moon team i made with an expanding force farigiraf

peak crypt
#

I think this team would be a little better off with Hatterene over Farigiraf

#

Farig and Indeedee kind of do the same thing, and that thing is mostly utility focused, so you can afford to diversify a bit

#

you could also run Diancie over Indeedee instead and have a physical attacker for the occasional threat like Calm Mind Raging Bolt

#

my other piece of advice is dropping Protect on Porygon2 for Tera Blast

#

P2 is pretty reasonably strong with a Download boost, and Tera Blast lets it threaten things with a good STAB

shrewd iron
#

I think your team is a bit too passive there's not much, P2 and amoong together is a bit meh in my opinion

#

A gholdengo can easily deal with your team after the removal of incineroar or bloodmoon

#

I would change amoongus since you don't really have anything that makes use of redirection, like a setupper

acoustic yoke
#

Thx

shrewd iron
#

With hatterene you need indeedee for sure

acoustic yoke
#

Aight

#

What about now?

#

Btw i forgor to add my 132 defense evs in p2 its added now

peak crypt
#

to be honest I think this went kind of backwards

#

I'll disagree with waffle a bit here and say I think the Amoonguss was fine

#

Incin / BM / P2 / Indeedee / Hatt / Amoonguss and Incin / BM / P2 / Diancie / Farigiraf / Amoonguss felt like the two "winning combinations"

latent scroll
#

After you on hetterene would be nice for the opposing ursaluna matchup

peak crypt
#

Not really, you just kill it with Expanding Force

acoustic yoke
#

I lowkey fixed it thx

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

acoustic yoke
#

Idk if helping hand on the vilest cat is better than flare blitz in this buz i want to boost bloodmoon

#

Ik it can do a lot of damage

#

Tera normal is a bigger boost

peak crypt
#

If Tera Normal Life Orb Blood Moon wonā€™t kill it, it wasnā€™t meant to die in one hit anyway; you can do something else with your turn

#

Hatterene should probably also be Life Orb though and drop Calm Mind for Trick Room

acoustic yoke
#

Aight but isnt 3 trick room too much?

peak crypt
#

Itā€™s not really bulky enough to try setting up, and is usually better off just hitting Expanding Force over and over

#

Nope

brittle spade
#

twisted spoon is also nice

peak crypt
#

(Also remember to use -spe natures on everythingā€”right now you have Modest over Quiet on a couple things, for example)

acoustic yoke
#

Done everyone is - spe

#

Except inci

#

Incin*

#

Idk how slow it should be

torpid moat
#

incin can be a little faster for fake out tie

acoustic yoke
#

How fast?

torpid moat
#

it's a personal preference thing, what you have now is fine

mild lichen
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

gilded prairie
#

i think a problem with the advice yall are giving is assuming everyone is trying to make the best team. You all immidietly tell people to just use the best pokemon in the format. The dude with the Farigaraf may just really like farigiraf and want to use them on his team as an attacker and instead of telling him how he can improve the farigiraf you imiidietly tell him to switch then to hatterene.

#

for instance i really wanted to use the strat of chlorophyll after you lilligant with eruption torkoal and i was immediately told to get rid of lilligant. instead of helping me improve the strategy you all immediately told me to switch out the lilligant for a different support pokemon.

gilded prairie
shrewd iron
#

This channel is made to give advice to teams to be more competitive

#

We have no problem with fun but this is what the channel is for

peak crypt
# gilded prairie i think a problem with the advice yall are giving is assuming everyone is trying...

Like waffle said, we assume that everyone who posts a team in this channel is looking for competitive help. Smogon is a competitive website and community, and the entire point of what we do here is to help you improve your team and your gameplay. If we drop the assumption of maximum competitiveness, that adds a lot of subjectivity into the work we do that both takes a lot of time and reduces the overall quality of our work. Weā€™re happy to work within parameters (to an extentā€”see https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1373406929317269624 for the full rules)ā€”but you need to tell us first. We cannot read your mind and do not know what kind of experience youā€™re looking for.

I think that given this, waffleā€™s advice is the kind of thing this channel is designed for, and he even skipped things like EV spread optimization in favor of larger changes to the team. If you were not looking for a full competitive analysis of the team, and suggestions made with that analysis in mind, you either should have said so or you should have asked for advice from friends instead. (Iā€™m at work and canā€™t really dive deep into it for now, but I didnā€™t see anything from waffle that I disagreed with. Also that was maybe not the best example replay, you beat up someone in the 1200s with a Grafaiaiā€¦)

As far as the Farigiraf point goes, they seemed happy enough with the suggestions, and if they arenā€™t happy theyā€™re more than welcome to come back. I suggested Hatt because I felt that four Normal-types on the team was too many, especially when two of them generally serve the same purpose in battle. I actually think Hatt sucks but I recognize itā€™s a better Expanding Force user than pretty much anything else, and I also provided an alternative that removed the Indeedee outright instead. I realize that sometimes it sucks when creative ideas need to get dropped in favor of strength, but making teams better is the goal of this channel, and we will pursue that goal as far as we can.

elder island
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

elder island
#

can this work

brittle spade
#

raging bolt wants protect with leftovers and just use the sample set for grimmsnarl

elder island
#

lando T

brittle spade
#

no, regular landorus

elder island
#

why regular?

brittle spade
#

removes diancie more easily, stops toxic spikes from going up

elder island
#

i meant the sheerforce

#

one

#

genie form right

brittle spade
#

yes, landorus-i

elder island
#

which pon

#

fire or water

brittle spade
#

water

elder island
#

usual set??

#

spiky,ivy,horn,follow me

#

done

#

anything else??

#

how it looks now

brittle spade
# elder island how it looks now

looks fine, you could struggle into opposing setup or screens but you can always fit taunt encore or brick break on wellspring

#

or stealth rocks on landorus

elder island
#

i have another team can i share??

mild lichen
shrewd iron
#

I would just say that 3 grass types isn't great and makes you too vulnerable to fire attacks or tornadus bleakwind storm

mild lichen
#

yeah but it is what it is

mild lichen
shrewd iron
#

I would swap rillaboom or ogerpon for something else

#

An option instead of rillaboom would be playing roaring moon. Good tailwind setter

shrewd iron
#

I don't think you need imprison on farigiraf considering you are playing both torkoal and rillaboom (which gets rid of the psychic terrain usually used in trick room and stalls trick room with fake out)

mild lichen
shrewd iron
#

Rest is good

mild lichen
mild lichen
#

if im playing sun would you say ep or sandsear would be better?

shrewd iron
#

Personally I would play both but doesn't change much

mild lichen
#

also now that firepon's gone would you say it would be more worthwhile to switch cc on lilligant out for solar blade?

shrewd iron
#

Actually in a team like this where there's no tailwind you can probably play focus sash landorus

shrewd iron
mild lichen
#

oh word

#

ok last thing
i was thinking that since the main counterplay to farigiraf is knock or uturn right
what if i ran weakness policy farigiraf lol

shrewd iron
#

the main counterplay to farigiraf is just clicking wood hammer stab

mild lichen
#

fair

shrewd iron
#

252+ Atk Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Farigiraf in Grassy Terrain: 363-427 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

#

252+ Atk Rillaboom U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Farigiraf: 218-258 (49 - 58.1%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

plucky elm
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

plucky elm
#

I hit ladder 1350 with this (idk if it's crazy or something)

shrewd iron
#

I know electric terrain thundurus sounds cool for bundle but it's not worth it

#

Tornadus has tailwind and is much better

#

Bundle needs protect if you want to play it focus sash so you can avoid fake out

#

Raging bolt has a weird set I suggest looking at the smogon set, weaknesses policy isn't good because there's any good move you would like to get hit by

#

Roaring moon red card is a bit weird

#

That diancie set isn't great and you will have a hard time setup

#

It would be better with diamond storm trick room body press protect

plucky elm
#

Oh ok thanks

#

Imma update and be back later

elder island
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.