Smogon Doubles Rates

[tight spire]

As well as protect is nice to have

[polar lotus]

Yeah, I think I could one shot amoongus or maybe double up so.... I should forget safety goggles

[tight spire]

Additionally sloking isn't really worth it ino

Imo

You just need alola Ninetales

It's not gonna do much and chilly reception doesn't really work well in Doubles

[polar lotus]

Yeah it slows me down tbh... But what if opponent brings Sun ;-;

[tight spire]

Then you have suicune with calm mind

Only one sun mon threatens it and it's ogerpon H

Use Incineroar

[polar lotus]

I guess I'm giving suicune Leftovers+Protect

And I'll replace Slowking with Gale Wings Talonflame?! How's that

[tight spire]

https://pokepast.es/eabff61c8b4a0b42 here's my original Suicune snow team

the first to use suicune like so

[polar lotus]

Ohh... Right Intimidate + Parting Shot!!

[tight spire]

if you want to use it for inspiration

[tight spire]

maybe, if you want another snow setter if anything Tornadus can do it

snowscape tornadus entirely possible

[polar lotus]

I almost kept it but seeing it's unstable low Accuracy attacks I moved on T.T

Bleakwind and Hurricane both are good attacks but not if they miss ;-;

[tight spire]

When I use snow I go full hit or miss

Blizzard full go

Sometimes not even in snow

[polar lotus]

I think Genies are best for rain teams because their signature moves bypass accuracy check in rain and that's quite OP and useful XD

And I thought Rillaboom over Incineroar because it could shut down other terrains (lol I could use Ice spinner too)

• Because it has great affinity with suicune and useful in high defensive +50% Boost Hail team

[tight spire]

Incineroar is helping its defensive side

[polar lotus]

Need a Fire type now but Talonflame looks kinda thin and not great offenses Unless it uses a swords dance or smth...

(Never used it ever +_+)

[tight spire]

You boost your sp def with cm

So your def you can cover with Incineroar

Leftovers+Sinistcha is usually good enough for health

[polar lotus]

Yeah that's good too maybe I'll replace my Rillaboom with that...

Now need to replace that Shell Head

Should I use Wide Lens Tornadus?! But that's a waste of item slot 🥲

And if it can't attack (miss) that's a waste of Pokemon slot T.T

[tight spire]

No you should just accept the inaccuracies

Statistically you're better off risking it

Than running a bad item

[polar lotus]

Now coming to Sinistcha, I only picked it above amoongus because it would do some really Nicee Damage under Grassy Terrain Boost... So should I replace it now the terrain setter is gone?!

[tight spire]

You can just have it use trick room

You want it for healing

That's how my snow functions as well

[polar lotus]

Yeah I might give it Life Dew idk... Hospitality is enough btw

And my team is just barely fast enough to do well in Tailwind T.T they will move Absolutely last in a Trick Room 💔

[tight spire]

I really think you should also try that team I showed you as well if you want a good grasp on how suicune snow can function

[polar lotus]

Cetitan has Slush Rush and Belly Drum and I need to just set him up so I could sweep everything around me

[polar lotus]

Kay..!! I'll try out both the versions of team

https://pokepast.es/3cc0fed0fec969e7

Made this sand team yesterday with some help!!

[tight spire]

I only do snow teams! But that's a neat one

[polar lotus]

Works really well..!! Because of this my win rate gone quite up ^^

Btw I've decided to have a team for each weather until they all work quite fine and well established...
Thanks for the advice for my 2nd weather team ^^

[tight spire]

Np!

[scarlet nexus]

It has been months since I have touched DOU so in like a 15 min draft lmk how I did

https://pokepast.es/972107320ea74e9f

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[scarlet nexus]

Ik 2 moves farih

Farig great start

Farig unfinished

Slapped protect and expanding on it

[brittle spade]

you don't really have the team to support two steel types, you should replace metagross by something that has follow me like ogerpon-wellspring. you don't want to run nuzzle because you're going to be setting trick room, which would lower the speed of opposing pkmn. You want a different item for hatt, like life orb

diancie wants trick room

[torpid moat]

hatt is also only useful with eforce+indeedee on the team, you'd likely just want indeedee > farig regardless, either that or to cut hatt

[scarlet nexus]

Diancie wants everything

[brittle spade]

youd want moonblast play rough or earth power before gyro ball regardless

[scarlet nexus]

Then I gotta spatk invest

Diancie here for dia spam

Storm

[brittle spade]

just drop gyro ball for trick room

diamond storm body press is already good coverage

[torpid moat]

yeah standard diancie is storm/press/tr/protect

gyro ball sucks

[warped arrow]

up

[tribal plinth]

https://pokepast.es/c2875d14468eea16

main focus is on muk

with moody

[polar lotus]

This looks more like a UU team than OU +_+

I would suggest you to replace Clefairy with Maushold or smth...

And Salazzle for Incineroar/Rillaboom...

Maybe Costar is good,
Now you could use Psych Up mon like Specially Defensive Gardevoir

Sinistcha is good but need to change moveset with
Rage Powder, Stab Shadow Ball, Matcha Gotcha and life dew or protect maybe

I suggest Volcarona and Oricorio Quiver Dance is better than Moody Muk but still you could try it...

And you could put Overqwill or other mon with Accupressure for extra boost

You've to replace Scovillain Salazzle and Clefairy for genuinely Viable mons...

[brittle spade]

giving muk levitate would be stricly better than moody

you should indeed replace salazzle with incineroar

and run a decent set on scovillain, like choice scarf or choice specs

protect on clefairy over reflect

don't expect to win a lot of games with this strategy though

[polar lotus]

Guyssssssssss I wanted to make a DOU rate team-
But got to know that my regular Rain Pal is BANNED NOW!!
My dear Archaludon T.T got ascended to Godhood (UBERS)
Idk if anyone could take his place now within my heart!!
Suggest me some replacement please

I think the one or two of the Genies would definitely be useful cuz of the 100% Accurate Spread Signature move of their own which works in Rain~

Than Pelipper, A Redirecter, A Pivot mon, Someone who could benefit of the rain by ability or move...

But I miss my Archaludon T.T 💔

[normal aurora]

same

archaludon was my savoir

I miss him a lot

[torpid moat]

there's no direct replacement

[polar lotus]

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO COULD UNDERSTAND ME ^^

[torpid moat]

rain is a lot worse now, though sandsear + waterpon + rd torn still exists

but anything involving pelipper has some pretty narrow options

main one is trying to use last respects basc-f

anything else is just not worth doing

[polar lotus]

How about Rain Boosted Choice Banded Tera Water Jet Punch by Palafin?!

(Wasn't it banned once before?!)

[torpid moat]

palafin has never been banned in a doubles format

[polar lotus]

Oh I forgor that Basculegion existed lol

[torpid moat]

as soon as waterpon became legal nobody bothered running it

[normal aurora]

honeslty its insane that archaludon got banned

tbh I think that landorous is more of a threat

[polar lotus]

Waterpon..?! You mean Ogerpon Wellspring??

[normal aurora]

the normal one not the therian one

[torpid moat]

yeah I know what lando-i does

it's strong but it has very clear answers

[polar lotus]

Wait I forgot which Lando has Intimidate!! That was scarier

[torpid moat]

it's not a mon like arch that can have that "raid boss" gameplay on a properly built team

[normal aurora]

ig its just that landorous is more flexible

when it comes to teambuilding

[polar lotus]

That Thing doesn't even die from Earthquake lol...
And I absolutely despised Friend Guard Maushold ones that Used Population bomb on him

[normal aurora]

oh yea

I saw that in Reg H all the fiucking time

[polar lotus]

I like Prankster Tornadus more for quick weather changing

[normal aurora]

specifically with beat up instead of pop bomb

[polar lotus]

Can't even Poison that thing for slow and painful death T.T

I was cursing him than remembered the Move Curse lol

[polar lotus]

Oh wait (Corrosion Glimmora giving Side eyes, though I like poison Legos more)

[normal aurora]

toxic corrosion could work

but its very niche

[polar lotus]

Salazzle but it's gonna be ded before doing anything

[torpid moat]

arch had a few specific answers like certain strong special attackers like lando-i, setup special attackers like gholdengo and raging bolt, and strong phys attackers before stamina boosts like tera firepon + sunny day torn

most of which could be played around/mitigated with sinistcha + the right team comp

[normal aurora]

the evil ghost head was also a good check

but that was banned a long time agp

[torpid moat]

it was just too difficult to answer properly

[polar lotus]

Oh yeah... Btw what about that Burning Bulwark guy?! Forgot his name...
He's specifically made for hunting Archaludons (well atleast his type combo lol)

[polar lotus]

Ghost head?? +_+

[normal aurora]

mega misdreavus

[polar lotus]

I guess I'll just make a Protosynthesis Sun team now ;-;

[polar lotus]

Oww... Looks more like a ded butterfly to me

[polar lotus]

Maybe Crashing Wake, and Long Head Raikou would be great contenders

[normal aurora]

ok I have a good suggestion for walking wake

hold on let me make it first

https://pokepast.es/00a904a82a3ae1db @polar lotus

this is a legimate cheat code for the weird suicune

wise glasses is realyl slept on

and if paired with torkoal or any sun stter

you will outspeed other waling wakes without choice scarf

[polar lotus]

I really hoped that Walking Wake learned Chilling Water so I could've just slapped Choice Specs on him 👓

[normal aurora]

I think it does

let me check

yep it does

[polar lotus]

Well... If I've to just get 10% boost I would rather give up my HP with Life Orb 😭

[polar lotus]

Maybe specs it's the right answer but it takes a lot of predicting to do +_+

[normal aurora]

its mainly the ev spread that makes thie set good

since even max speed walking wake will always activates special attack

from proto

so you have to intentially lower the special attack in order to get the speed

[polar lotus]

I mostly play Defensively... Even the frail and weak talonflame gets some Defensive spread if it's within the reach of my hands!!

Well it's pretty fast enough and it's ability...
I guess most of the players doesn't invest much on speed anyways

And so does apply to each of mons T.T

https://pokepast.es/24bd364ae3a4baaa

[normal aurora]

This was what articblast wrote for the weird suicune

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[polar lotus]

Here's my Snow Team for example... (It's in testing phase, and something looks off)

[peak crypt]

that set is pretty outdated and I think Walking Wake is very mediocre

I mean the details of the set itself are still correct, nothing's really changed beyond a higher priority on Tera Fire

but all of the meta details have changed; there was no Tornadus when I wrote that

Wise Glasses sucks though

[peak crypt]

Kilowattrel shouldn't be here, full stop

there is no reason you should put a Kilowattrel on your team

[polar lotus]

Tbh the standard life Orb and protect Walking Wake set is nice and still quite threatening in sun teams ^^ and wanna try it out sometime soon

[peak crypt]

it might seem like it does things well, but in reality its damage is too low, it's too frail, and "base 125 Tailwind" isn't a redeeming factor in a world with Tornadus, Whimsicott, and Roaring Moon

[polar lotus]

NEEDED A TW MON 😭

[normal aurora]

thunder wave?

[peak crypt]

you don't really need Tailwind if you have a Sinistcha

[normal aurora]

ooh

[peak crypt]

but if you really insist, drop Protect on the Suicune for Tailwind

or just... run Tornadus lol

[polar lotus]

It's Volt Switch after TW has been taking quite a lotta lives than I'd expected but-
IT'S TOO FRAIL

[polar lotus]

I considered using him... But decided I don't want a Tornadus who can't attack and guarantee Accuracy ;-;

[peak crypt]

Tornadus is so good that you just use it anyway

Bleakwind missing happens

there is still nothing in Tornadus's league if you want to set Tailwind

[polar lotus]

Lol I indeed given Suicune TW earlier but I really wanted that Leftovers+Grassy Terrain Heal 🥲

[peak crypt]

I've been using no-Protect CM Suicune on a snow team for a while

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-team-bazaar.3710875/page-6#post-10179117 third team here

[polar lotus]

After a Calm mind or two people starts Double Targeting mah suicune ;-;

[peak crypt]

you have redirection and you have a second setup sweeper

you don't need your first setup sweeper to finish the game when you have a second

[polar lotus]

But that low accuracy bleakwind still give me nightmares T.T

[peak crypt]

a Tornadus that misses every Bleakwind is still better than a Kilowattrel

you're going to have to rip the band-aid off eventually

[polar lotus]

You mean that Cetitan?!
I think I need a Defensive tera... Cuz that tera is most of the time useless for me ;-;

[peak crypt]

the reward for using Tornadus is way, way higher than the risk

realistically Cetitan should have Protect and not Knock

Knock is good but it doesn't need to be on this team at all

Rilla really wants Wood Hammer too

[torpid moat]

if you want you could straight up run air slash torn and it'd still be better than kilowattrel

[polar lotus]

Ohkay so I'll finally give this Tornadus guy a chance!!

Need to figure out a moveset and nice EV spread for now !!

[torpid moat]

they're already available, just check smogdex

[polar lotus]

That's better than both it's attack bleakwind and Hurricane lol

[torpid moat]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/pokemon/tornadus/doubles/

[polar lotus]

Yeahhhhhh!!! I haven't really used Knock off Outta Cetitan at all

[polar lotus]

And should I give up U-Turn??
Cuz that's the only move I didn't needed much Outta all my matches

[polar lotus]

Thanks

[peak crypt]

no, you give up Knock Off

[polar lotus]

On Rilla?! WHAT T.T that's the only thing keeping me safe from Indeedees and Hattrenes

And OHKOs many more Ghost/Psychics T.T 💔

[peak crypt]

the thing that should keep you safe from Psychic Terrain is Rillaboom's ability

neutral Wood Hammer in terrain straight up does more damage than a super effective Knock Off

[torpid moat]

^

hammer kills hatt just as well

[polar lotus]

What about U-Turn?? That's quite useless till now

[torpid moat]

much moreso actually

[peak crypt]

252+ Atk Rillaboom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 220 Def Indeedee-F: 242-286 (70.3 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 220 Def Indeedee-F in Grassy Terrain: 291-343 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

[torpid moat]

u turn is how you keep pressure up with fake out refreshing and better positioning

[polar lotus]

And is terrain speed depended?? Cuz I remember starting with Rilla and opponent with Indede but my terrain didn't activate??

[peak crypt]

terrain is based on speed

[torpid moat]

if rilla is faster then terrain activates first then gets replaced by indeedee

[peak crypt]

you never want to lead Rillaboom against opposing Indeedee, because they'll almost always be slower

you want to lead with two other Pokemon and switch one to Rillaboom later to remove Psychic Terrain

[torpid moat]

you can have second fake out user (incin or hands) while switching in rilla

[polar lotus]

So.. Ninetales and Tornadus lead it is +_+

[peak crypt]

or Ninetales Suicune and start with Veil + CM

or Torn Cetitan and just click attacks

[torpid moat]

wait why's there a cetitan involved

[peak crypt]

or Sinistcha Suicune and make them think about how they want to set TR

[polar lotus]

I've for most of the time used suicune midgame... And haven't really tried changing their positions ;-; I need to learn so much more

[polar lotus]

Both my mons are quite fast and they could easily set it ;-;

But thanks I'll tryna make some changes soon ;P

[peak crypt]

Sinistcha learns Trick Room

they have to think about how to set TR because you might use TR at the same time to cancel it out

[polar lotus]

Overthinking to their own doom fr 💀

But idk the rank I'm around, my opponents might even think this far lol... I'm competing at quite low level T.T

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/6d85d42961b40fd2

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[polar lotus]

Made some changes to my Sand team... But I was wondering if I should replace some mons like (Corviknight/Ogerpon) for some other powerful new gen mons or paradox mons...
Maybe Sneasler or Gholdengo?!

[tight spire]

Weakness policy Amoongus uh I don't think you'll get far with that

This Pokemon can't remake make use of it

[polar lotus]

Lol I was intentionally trying to test a new amoongus hehe... I want an all out offensive amoongus to surprise my opponents XD

Should I replace Pollen Puff with Giga Drain

And any EV changes?!

[tight spire]

It's just that there's no real situation where you will take a super effective hit and deal meaningful damage

Pollen Puff you should keep

Tyranitar probably wants to be AV or something else like clear amulet at least I'm not sure what you get from cloak

[polar lotus]

Sinistcha was taking quite a benefit from Weak Policy and I prefer it over Amoongus forever T.T ❤️ cuz it's offensive and defensive role

But I thought to give Amoongus a try to offensive role too hehe

[tight spire]

Amoongus really can't do that well

Even at +2 it won't get any ohkos

[polar lotus]

I'd clear amulet earlier but replaced it thinking if I open the match with Glimmora and T-Tar than they'll be in trouble if they Fake Out me

[tight spire]

And a lot of things that do super effective damage are also bulky that they don't care as much

[polar lotus]

Should I just replace it for my pal Sinistcha ;-;

[tight spire]

I don't see this team being bulky enough to benefit from sinistcha

Your stuff is gonna mostly die

Aside from the

Corviknight

Who still has issues against special attacks

[polar lotus]

T-Tar will get Defensive boost from Sand... And shut off other weather

Incineroar will intimidate and Part shot them

Maybe I could use Rillaboom Grassy Surge

[tight spire]

Rilla works well with Incineroar yea

If you're using Amoongus you won't be able to spore as much with glimmora

[polar lotus]

Yeah sp attacks are problem maybe I could redirect them and introduce another setup mon like Nasty Plot or swords dance to divert their attention

[polar lotus]

That Glimmora point is valid yeah!!

Amoongus not really benefit me

[tight spire]

Generally I would say the Rilla Incineroar idea probably helps

Constant fake out juggling plus residual damage

[polar lotus]

So need to replace Amoongus, and give T-Tar a clear amulet

[polar lotus]

And the legos and stones would chip off too

[tight spire]

You could do AV if you opt for stealth rocks on glimmora

Over spikes

[polar lotus]

Need a Redirecter now

[tight spire]

Spikes are unlikely to be as useful

[polar lotus]

Friend Guard Maushold?!

[tight spire]

Because of the time it takes to set up

U have an ogerpon

You don't need it to use swords dance

Have it use follow me

[polar lotus]

Atleast I could set Rocks and a layer of toxic spikes... And those Legos are if I don't have any option... Glimmora is to just open the match and sack it off

[polar lotus]

Need to change EVs to Defensive

+after a swords dance and Tera it could pretty much OHKO anything Ineffective or not

If I've +2 Corviknight and a dancing Ogerpon the opponents might've to choose one of them to target

And I could just Body Press/Ivy Cudgel the match through 🦆✨

I think Sinistcha solves Bulk Problem with Hospitality and Redirection...
And Weakness policy too

And don't have enough space for Rillaboom to fit...
Maybe... I should switch it with Incineroar

To get Terrain up and boost Matcha Gotcha + Healing + Boost Horn Leach

https://pokepast.es/17e4b1ffdc6ef2a6

[polar lotus]

Back to old team 😅... It's the most practical for now

[torpid moat]

I really don't recommend using triple grass double rock

it'll make it very easy to get walled by certain mons like kommo and gholdengo

kommo itself is also a better iron defense user on sand than corvi

also if you want a rock mon for getting sand boost, consider diancie instead of glimm

check out this sand team for example that makes good use of trick room: https://pokepast.es/04230f74a2af91b6

[tribal plinth]

https://pokepast.es/d94dcb773efe778a

[polar lotus]

Yeah that's the problem... Hardcore Sun and Rain Teams were a problem-
But I want some gimmick team which uses the Full ability of the sand

I wish Sandyghast or whatever it was gets Follow Me it could've been so good...

• I wanted some more Sand related mons on my team

There are barely any single good Sand Rush or Sand Force mons left and the sand force ability isn't even good unless you're spamming EQ and RS T.T game freak should pay attention to other Weathers too except Sun and Rain

[polar lotus]

I wanted to use a Gholdengo of my own ;-; but I don't really know how to use it... And maybe I should use Incineroar but I'm biased towards my beloved Rillaboom and Sinistcha combo

[torpid moat]

this is a classic team built around ghold as a strong setup with nasty plot, it appreciates intim/protection from incin + waterpon, plus tailwind support from torn: https://pokepast.es/88cdf287037480f5

as for a "hard commit" sand team, it'd probably lean on the offensive side

maybe ttar/houndstone/exca/firepon/overcoat iron def kommo

last slot clear amulet pao

[polar lotus]

Tbh I hesitate a lot to give other mons even a try,and stick to my same ol mates...
It's time I guess I should try all those Paradox mons, newer ladder threats and be a Lil experimental and daring more 😭‼️

[torpid moat]

firepon and pao are like the most straightforward mons on earth lol

they just kill things with stabs

do lots of damage

technically in this case firepon would be a follow me support as well

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

click on any mon here to get a sample set

[normal aurora]

honestly they should give indeedee an evolution

so that it has more of a fighting chance againct incin and rillaboom

[tribal plinth]

pls no

evolite indeedee sounds like the being no one asked for nor wanted

[tight spire]

I want

[kind nova]

Metronome 🔥

[peak crypt]

didn’t realize how this one got missed

the short version is “don’t do this”

the long version is Gliscor and Cloyster are both really bad Pokemon and the rest of the team is running bad sets and redundant threats in Gholdengo and Armarouge

You could turn this into something better—WP Armarouge isn’t great but you could certainly do worse—but it won’t look much like what you have now

[split viper]

https://pokepast.es/2d7a8d881d06b4a6
I js made this team and I want pro tips on how to improve it

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[split viper]

My first time building a doubles team

[warped arrow]

for one you have protect on an assault vest pokemon

for 2 sand isn’t really that good

also sand veil is banned

i would suggest using a sample team to get a feel for the metagame

[halcyon panther]

Doubles (Gen 9)

• Sample teams
• Viability rankings
• Discussion thread
• Discord
• PS! room

Overview

For more info, see this format's Dex page.

[peak crypt]

If one of the other official raters doesn’t get to it before me, I’ll try to get to this after work

It could be a lot worse, but Aubrey is right, Sand Veil is banned and Assault Vest will lock you out of Protect

[warped arrow]

sorry gang for not having the shiny stamp of approval

[split viper]

I actually wanted to build a sand team bc it's my favorite weather

I also didn't know sand veil is banned

Thx tho

[tight spire]

yes the evasion ability ban is actually pretty recent

due to Articuno usage rising

granted I don't think you need farigiraf to have a rocky helmet as if urshifu were legal

[split viper]

so should I do rough skin chomps or js change it?

[warped arrow]

then use it it’s not complete dog shit :<

just probs the worst

maybe better then rain post arch?

idk

[split viper]

Ice overcame it?

[warped arrow]

Hail is the best yes

[split viper]

dang

[tight spire]

:^)

[split viper]

I would've nvr thought tbh

[tight spire]

it took a lot of shilling for it to happen

[warped arrow]

It took the snow buff :<

And arch getting banned

[tight spire]

Snow was already good even with Arch

i know because ppl would have otherwise used it against me in their CTs

[warped arrow]

ok yes, but it wasn’t the best

[tight spire]

smh

hmmm but lemme think on this garchomp here

[warped arrow]

Arch actually fit on hail with iron press sets funnily enough

[split viper]

Will tornadus be a good one to swap with chomps?

[tight spire]

I usually dont do non snow teams, but maybe an orgerpon or so

also farigiraf I'm looking at again

it doesn't really DO much does it?

no Trick Room

I'd say you could afford to either give it Trick Room, or get a tornadus etc

get some speed control

[split viper]

https://pokepast.es/acdbee77556d8e9e
This works?

[tight spire]

Landorus you shouldn't really use sand force on even in sand

[split viper]

;-;

[tight spire]

bc it still is better to use sheer force

like Sheer foce is the same damage multiplier

[split viper]

so doesn't matter if it's either of the abilities?

[tight spire]

but u don't need to win the weather war

sheer force is better in every way

because in gameplay terms, you're often NOT winning the weather war

and if you have a way to function out of sand, it's better than in inside sand function

[split viper]

I never put that in mind tbh

I almost went with tr sand team

[peak crypt]

AV Tyranitar is still a respectable ball of stats outside of sand too

[split viper]

Unnerve is good in doubles right?

[tight spire]

oh you know what I know, if I think of a team I would hate we could make something nice

[peak crypt]

You still use Sand Stream, it’s very valuable

[warped arrow]

also if your lo you should just be sf no matter what cuz of the recoil cancel

[peak crypt]

I just mean that if you do happen to lose sand, TTar isn’t immediately worthless

[tight spire]

Farig here shouldn't be using lefties also

its not bulky enough

also sand

cancels leftovers

[split viper]

oh yh.

[tight spire]

Incineroar could use saftey goggles

if it didn't want sand damage

[peak crypt]

Safety Goggles will get you a similar effect while giving you a Spore immunity on Farig

[tight spire]

yeah

also probably should be using Trick Room on Farig

[split viper]

Goggles on farig too?

[tight spire]

speed control is valuable

sitrus isn't bad

just incase you wanted extra amoongus support

[peak crypt]

I actually prefer Heavy-Duty Boots on Incineroar; there’s enough Stealth Rock going around for it to be valuable

[split viper]

Rocks r used in doubles??

I thought I wasn't good enough to be used in doubles

[tight spire]

Yes, 6v6 makes it easier to do

[peak crypt]

They’re not on every team, but between Glimmora, Ting-Lu, and occasionally Landorus, there are enough hazard setters around that you should not ignore SR

[warped arrow]

and tspikes!

[split viper]

igh thx

[peak crypt]

If you run into the tiny number of people running Toxapex then 1) I’m sorry and 2) it will be helpful there too

[split viper]

I hate that

it gave me trauma

[warped arrow]

theres also some fucker on ladder using tspikes mew

[split viper]

did u mention it js bc mew is on my pfp ;-;

Now that u mention it

I'll use mew

[warped arrow]

no i mentioned it cuz i almost lost to it 💀

[split viper]

doesn't mew always use status moves?

[warped arrow]

for the most part

tspikes is not the usual tho

[split viper]

So taunt is still useful on it

[peak crypt]

Mew is another SR clicker sometimes, but it’s a pretty uncommon Pokemon in general

[split viper]

Cuz most mews I faced against in singles always ran full status

[warped arrow]

The few times ive seen it it's like Pollen, Rocks, Tw/Tr, Coaching

[peak crypt]

Mews in DOU tend to either be Pollen Puff support machines or Imprison Transform cheese; fortunately it’s a pretty rare Pokemon in general

[warped arrow]

as its the best coaching user atm

[peak crypt]

Losing Fake Out made it very sad

[warped arrow]

indeed

unless you count like

Shitmontop...

[split viper]

It's kinda absurd to give mew almost every move

[peak crypt]

We do not count Hitmontop in 2025

[split viper]

hitmontop is cool tho

[warped arrow]

I have a Top team

!!

it is by no means good though

it is however

very silly

[split viper]

I'm interested

[warped arrow]

https://pokepast.es/13cc128c8831aeb8

For the record I do not recomend using this as Cress isn't really partiularly good rn

But it can possibly cheese out a win or two

[split viper]

what the best unburden pokemon rn?

[warped arrow]

Sneasler ig?

[split viper]

I saw seeds then I rmred sneasler

Isn't it banned?

[warped arrow]

theres no real good users atm tho

[warped arrow]

from singles ou yes, but its Duu or Dnu here

[split viper]

I'll make use of Hitmonlee 🗿

[warped arrow]

hitmonlee is like

turbo bad

[split viper]

Always been my favorite fighting

[warped arrow]

if you want you can make sneasler work maybe

but hitmonlee is not gonna cut it

[split viper]

I'll try to work on that

[split viper]

yh his physical def is horrible

Idk y his spdef is that high

110 spdef instead of speed

[warped arrow]

ye

87 speed isn't spectacular

mono fighting isn't great typing in the land of Iron Hands

And with how stupid common torn is speed control is everywhere

[split viper]

What's wrong with trying

[warped arrow]

and it also is really good into you

[split viper]

I always made use of scarf absol in singles 🗿

[warped arrow]

I mean you try it ig

I would suggest Duu though

The lower power level might be a bit more welcoming

[split viper]

Thx Aubrey

[warped arrow]

np

[tight spire]

if you make a sand team with Scream Tail and Ogerpon-H I would very much hate to fight it myself

[peak crypt]

Thanks for the recommendation

[tight spire]

no wait shit

[normal aurora]

there is one way you can counter it

U̶n̶b̶a̶n̶ g̶r̶o̶u̶d̶o̶n̶

I mean use a reqlly bulky dragon mon and landorus

yes thats what I meant to say

[polar lotus]

I'm still angry at the fact that they didn't make Meteor Beam 1 turn move in sand and gave us more Sand mons with sand ability...
And just increasing Rocks mons defense is stupid enough need to give Steel and Ground types the boost too to make it more threatening like Water and Sun Teams 😭

[polar lotus]

Lol I am indeed working on a sand team to make it work lol thanks...
(Btw I was using Volcanion instead of Ogerpon H and it's coverage is really cool with bulk in Assault Vest)

But I never ever used Scream Tail lol?! What is it's usual set??

Encore
Disable
Some Psychic/Fairy STAB
Protect or Taunt

[mystic hemlock]

https://pokepast.es/e561cef6613ef690 any improvement ideas? Its working pretty well tho.

[peak crypt]

Poltergeist is a physical move

There’s not really a great way to “improve” pledges honestly, they’re pretty bad

But if we’re looking past that, I think the Dragonite and Clefable are a bit suboptimal; one of Clefable’s big strengths is Unaware Follow Me, which you‘ve opted not to run in favor of Stealth Rock. This is a particularly weird choice because Fire and Grass Pledge adds damage over time anyway so you don’t really need it all that much. I also think this team is pretty vulnerable to Incineroar, since both special attackers lose to it and both physical attackers will struggle against it. If you’re swapping to Follow Me Clefable, you can run Focus Energy Wellspring to guarantee you nail the Incineroar and can keep critting without fear of Intimidate. I’d also consider Roaring Moon over Dragonite; a -1 Moon is still capable of providing team support via Knock Off and Breaking Swipe, and doesn’t mind losing its own item (because it probably used Booster Energy) while a -1 Dragonite is very bad

Gholdengo’s moves should probably be Make it Rain / Shadow Ball / Gleam / Power Gem. In my heart I love Hyper Beam, but competitively I cannot justify it

@mystic hemlock

[mystic hemlock]

👍

usually i lead with serperior and incineroar and get the pledge off for free since they're scared of fake out

[peak crypt]

I think this team is flexible enough that you don’t need to prioritize that

You can sometimes just use your good Pokémon in their normal roles and then get Pledge off later in the game

[mystic hemlock]

replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2338961295-mr2xdynsrrjay887gyxrtaajmc6a9papw

[warped arrow]

why is this tera blast ghost serp one of your biggest road blocks is going to be incin which that set is completely shit on by

[warped arrow]

Id probably go Tera Ground as it lets you hit Chi Yu, Incin, Ghold, Gouger, Iron Crown, Bolt

However you still get shit on by av rilla

[torpid moat]

it's ghost to mitigate how bad it is to get faked out on pledge

and ghost blast technically still hits a few key mons like ghold

it's obviously not a good gimmick, or even the right mons considering this is doable by rilla + incin or something

but you can't really expect that much from wildfire pledge

[warped arrow]

ig

it hits crown too

idk

just run cloak atp

does incin even take dmg for fire pledge

[polar lotus]

Tera Stellar Serperior is Gold!!
It hits Everything for Neutral Damage

• It gets Boost into it's Special and Physical attack due to it's ability

Tera Stellar Serperior is really a scary mon and idk why people don't use it much

[kind nova]

probably too frail for something that takes multiple turns to ramp up

[polar lotus]

Isn't it better than the Frailer Tera Coverage Blasts

It is there to ramp up stast from Leaf Storm than reveal the secret Tera when both the opponents resist it

Tera Stellar Tera Blast is 100 base power and gives a Boost who's gonna say no to such a move that have no downsides

• it's super effective on other mons that has Terastallized

[kind nova]

yea but the problem is serperior is unlikely to survive more than 1 hit

even with sash its staying on the field for like 2 turns max

[polar lotus]

And that 2 turns is kinda enough to put holes in the opponent teams and OHKO even a mon or two

And it's Doubles so you could benefit off of a Redirecter or another threat standing beside Serperior to divert their attention~

It is kinda cool mon either way XD

[kind nova]

I haven't rlly used it myself im just suggesting why a lot of ppl dont

im pretty sure its also not rlly that strong like +2 serp tera steller tera blast doesn't 2HKO incin

[peak crypt]

yeah Stellar isn’t as good as it seems

Serperior has like base 75 Special Attack so you really want to be clicking Leaf Storm to boost

[normal aurora]

you could also argue that tera dragon serp is good

if you want your serperior to last a bit longer

ice types wont realy be a problem considering ghold and incin are in your team

Also on a side note, its really suprising that Robotic Penguino is still in DUU despite all that it has

The ghost head is banned

ig the monke and ogre are still threats

it does pair really well with landorus

since they both can do one thing the other cant

[peak crypt]

It kind of just doesn’t do enough

Tornadus is a real bummer for it

And somehow it still doesn’t have a good matchup into Wellspring despite having STAB Freeze-Dry—they just Tera and Horn Leech to slurp it all back up

[karmic wharf]

For doubles, is there any viability to a ursaluna with throat spray and roar + STAB moves?

Should clarify i mean bloodmoon ig

I would think roar, earth power, hyper voice in case roar isnt capable, and maybe focus blast or moonblast? Probably moonblast right? Tera fairy? Is that stupid

Would vacuum wave be better over any of thos3

Those

[normal aurora]

I mean it could work ig

just make sure one of the moves is bloodmoon

because its really powerful

also roar isn't that great of a move in doubles

@karmic wharf

[peak crypt]

Bloodmoon generally doesn’t have the space for it

You’re running Hyper Voice, Earth Power, and Blood Moon on basically every set anyway, and from there it’s either Protect on non-AV or Vacuum Wave on AV

(Some people use CM too but that set’s not great imo)

Most of the things you would want to Roar off the board will die to Blood Moon anyway

Roar has its uses in the format, particularly in preventing Trick Room, but it’s generally not worth losing a move slot

[karmic wharf]

Good points thanks guys

[normal aurora]

np

oh and about the tera

ghost, grass, and normal are generally the best options

normal for offense

[peak crypt]

Offensive Blood Moon usually just use Tera Normal

[normal aurora]

and ghost and grass for defense

[peak crypt]

Tera boosted Blood Moon is a cannon

[brittle spade]

You'd use a defensive Tera on av blood moon but that's it

Life orb or spray wants tera normal

[void horizon]

https://pokepast.es/bde94725b7df3f24

[normal aurora]

umm

just curios,

why does dragonite have life orb and rillaboom have tera grass

hold on let me do some editing

@void horizon https://pokepast.es/829f66397f34aaca try this one

actually let me redit this one

im mainly confused about landorus

[void horizon]

wait my land has tera grass???

weird

but thanks!

[normal aurora]

also the reason why I got rid of covert cloak was because you already have checks to incin and rillaboom

so you'd most of the time rather use landorus for other purposes

[void horizon]

choice scarf is actually nice, now I can use if my farifarig goes down early

[normal aurora]

also earthquake + grassy terrain makes for a bad combo

I wanna see how this team works

can you show a replay with that team?

[void horizon]

gimme a sec

cant get any but landorus is only there because i didnt know what to place there

[normal aurora]

oh

[void horizon]

land is a strong phys attacker with a good ability and strong movepool thats the only reason hes there

[normal aurora]

tbh so is kinggambit and dragonitw

so you can either replace it with chien pao or a really good special attacker like landours I

but is landorus is working well for you, you don't have to replace it

[void horizon]

i might replace it with bloodmoon ursa or a bulky special attacker with good spread moves and either a form of speed control or the ability to lower attack or punish attackers in some way

[normal aurora]

okok

how Do I summon the chatot bot without having to paste a team?

[peak crypt]

it's okay I am here

so the big thing I see with this team is like

it doesn't do anything

you have some solid bulky offense Pokemon but you don't really have a good way to push damage

one of the reasons you usually see Dragonite next to Chien-Pao is Pao is a really good way to push damage - it's pretty close to a free Leer, basically

[normal aurora]

I mean I did reccomend chien pao in place of landorus

[peak crypt]

I also notice that you have Taunt Volcanion and Imprison Farig, but you're not really running anything that actually suffers in Trick Room

all of these Pokemon are bulky offense

you can just let Trick Room go up

@void horizon

[void horizon]

i see

[peak crypt]

you've also made a couple mistakes around terrain

Rillaboom will cut your own Landorus's damage in half

and then Dragonite will remove that terrain when it uses Ice Spinner

you don't really want to build a team that like

interferes with itself, you know?

[void horizon]

understandable

i need to work on compatability and a strategy to push for a win

[peak crypt]

I think a quick and dirty fix here would be

• swap Kingambit for Chien-Pao and make the Dragonite Choice Band
• swap Lando-T for standard Lando-I
• swap Volcanion for AV Raging Bolt

[void horizon]

or sweep

[peak crypt]

your main path to victory becomes priority spam with Rilla / Dragonite / Pao

but you now have a good way to break stuff like Iron Defense users with Lando-I

and you still have the ability to set Trick Room for yourself with Farig and make use of it with Bolt and your priority moves

[void horizon]

noted

[peak crypt]

Volcanion honestly doesn't do much that Raging Bolt can't do

I'd also recommend Wood Hammer over High Horsepower on Rilla and dropping either Imprison or Protect for a Psychic move on Farigiraf

[void horizon]

but i need to watch for opposing farigs and indeedees since priority moves are a big part of this team

[peak crypt]

Indeedee isn't as much of an issue as you might think

you just need to play Rillaboom better

never lead Rilla against an Indeedee team

[void horizon]

noted

[peak crypt]

Wood Hammer gives you better damage against Farigiraf, Bolt matches up well into it with Snarl, and if you're really concerned you can drop Sacred Sword on Pao for Throat Chop

[void horizon]

should i run life orb sheer force land- I?

[peak crypt]

yes

your Rillaboom EV spread is also pretty inefficient - a good rule of thumb is to use a nature that boosts your highest base stat

(with the obvious exception of Speed on relevant Pokemon)

there's actually a button for this on the teambuilder

you can achieve the same exact stats on Rillaboom with an Adamant nature and 56 fewer EVs

[void horizon]

so something like this

[normal aurora]

I feel like I already helped with half the things that were said

was there something big that I left out?

[peak crypt]

you can pump those into Attack for more damage, you can max out HP and put the leftover into Attack, you can try to speed creep around 212/213, whatever suits your fancy

[peak crypt]

when you're trying to rate, it's usually better to use more words, rather than fewer, to better explain things and convey the point you want to make

[uncut pine]

https://pokepast.es/5adf5104ec983844

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

I’m at work so this might be a little quick and dirty

I don’t think this is the style of team for Chi-Yu at all

Chi-Yu doesn’t really fit on bulky balance teams like this; its typing overlaps with one of the format’s best pivots and its ability cuts into the bulk of your own threats

I think you’d be much better off swapping Chi-Yu and Lando-T for Incineroar and Lando-I, then condensing the Hands and Heatran into Raging Bolt

and now you have a free slot for something like Wellspring or Okidogi

[torpid moat]

agreed^, though if you want to lean harder into chi yu then go chi yu/torn/farig with some combination of blood moon lando-i regidrago

[torpid moat]

also this chi yu is specs protect

[uncut pine]

oh thats mustve been a mistake i think i run tera blast

[uncut pine]

ok ill try this

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/866f1c217f2a7f84

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[polar lotus]

Guys would this work lol?!
Any more good usage of Neutralizing Gas/even prankster Doodle?!

I think I need support mon like Tornadus but I'll be shutting my ability too hehe...

[peak crypt]

the quick answer is no

[polar lotus]

Maybe I can use Regieleki with Electro Web?!

[polar lotus]

Hehe thought so 🥲

[peak crypt]

the longer answer is Normal isn't a great solo STAB in the first place, so the benefit you get from a powered up Slaking or Regigigas is lower than you want it to be

[polar lotus]

But their Raw power and other coverage could deal with other threats right?!
And intimidate would be off too if neutralizing gas would aid me

[peak crypt]

you definitely only pick one and not both, and you need to really strongly consider Ability Shield on something to continue to break parity with Weezing when you don't have your big Normal type in play

[polar lotus]

I think maybe replacing Regigigas?!
Because I don't like his shallow move pool T.T but he has a lot of Stats to ignore that

[peak crypt]

the juice is not worth the squeeze

[polar lotus]

Yeah I guess weezing wouldn't even stay that long on the field

Maybe Grafiai is better with Slaking/Regigigas

I wanted Regigigas to atleast had Bulk up 😭 but he doesn't learn any useful moves

[peak crypt]

I mean the problem isn't "the ability negation isn't good enough"

the problem is Regigigas and Slaking still aren't good enough with no ability to justify spending a team slot on buffing them

if you could actually bring Regi and Slaking to a battle without their bad abilities, they would be pretty good, but making them work comes at a heavy teambuilding cost that just isn't worth it

and if you end up losing Weezing early then you have a dead slot

[polar lotus]

Yeah lol... Lemme Try something with Grafaiai atleast, atleast he could Pivot and have a Nice Ability and Moves too

Btw I just realised that I should focus on trying other mons before making any kinda Gimmicky teams

Like I don't know how to even use mons like Screaming Tail, Roaring Moon, Iron Hands, Great Tusk and all sorts of Paradox and New Mons 😭

May I get to know which channel could I learn about the new mons and test them with different sets to get used to them?!
Than I think I could make teams more efficiently

[torpid moat]

you can just type /analysis iron hands on pokemon showdown

it'll give you a sample set

[torpid moat]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/ this thread has links for many of them

most of the mons don't care about their abilities btw, or self-activate it with booster energy, usually on speed

[normal aurora]

Oh i didn't know the art was made by @tight spire

kudos to him that art is really good

[polar lotus]

Ohhh Thanks I got the lead where to start from XD

[polar lotus]

And yeah you're right about it even I didn't noticed that awesome art was made by @tight spire XD

[tight spire]

yus I made the art

very fire

[uncut pine]

https://pokepast.es/bcb758b6628b36fe

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

Realistically this only needs a few small changes

Tera Blast on Landorus doesn’t really do anything super important for you, especially Steel; you’ll get a lot more mileage out of a move like Sandsear Storm or Substitute

[uncut pine]

noted

[peak crypt]

Knock Off is still a good move but it’s not as strong here as it is in singles; Rilla really wants Grassy Glide and Ogerpon usually wants a Grass move there (especially since you have Rilla on the team)

And with double Fake Out double AV you probably don’t also need double Taunt; I’d suggest choosing one and swapping the other for a different move. Incin can make good use of Flare Blitz or Wisp, while Tornadus can use Rain Dance or Icy Wind in its place

[uncut pine]

ok i was leaning towards removing taunt on inceneroar for flare blitz thanks

[peak crypt]

This team is somewhat weak to snow so I’d probably suggest Rain Dance Torn and keep Taunt on the Incin actually

[uncut pine]

oh ok

[peak crypt]

You can use Rain Dance on the turn they go for Aurora Veil and throw off their game plan

[peak crypt]

This is still worth testing though, so I’d give it a shot too

[uncut pine]

great

thanks for the infos appreciate it very much

[trail glen]

https://pokepast.es/e98639f72651b867

I made this team with the concept of sending out a lava plum user (in this case chi-yu) and using that to power up dashbun and hit a ton of damage with body press basically hitting the enemy while at the same time powering up a sweep I also gave dashbun baton pass incase it gets overwhelmed it can pass it's buffs to coviakight I'm mostly looking for advice on how I can better improve this idea

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rose juniper]

Im currently walking the dog so I might have a bit less attention for this but if you want I can take a look at it@trail glen

[trail glen]

I'd appreciate that

[rose juniper]

Alright

I saw you wanted to work with the lava plime strat, before anything else I should prolly warn you that its ass but if youre trying to make a fun team rather the a competitive team then gk for it and don't let that discourage you

[trail glen]

Yeah.. it has flaws I just wanna try to refine the idea best I can

[rose juniper]

Also please remind me again, the boost you get

Is that +1 atk or def?

[trail glen]

2x Def boost

[rose juniper]

Oh

Cool

[trail glen]

It acts like SD only giving the 2x on first proc of the ability

[rose juniper]

Wdym?

[trail glen]

Like 2x, 3x then 4x

If it was hit three times with a fire move

[rose juniper]

Yeah thats the same increase

Thats +2 on top of +2

[trail glen]

Oh okay

[rose juniper]

So it gives you the same boost everytime

[peak crypt]

question: have you played a lot of OU in the past

[trail glen]

Not alot I mostly play natdex monotype but I'm familiarish with meta in current gen ou

[tight spire]

The team looks like it's mostly a singles team

[peak crypt]

it is time to pretend you are not familiar with the CG OU meta

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

Gliscor does not exist

[trail glen]

Real?

[tight spire]

Gliscor is bad in doubles

[peak crypt]

not in the sense that it's banned, but in the sense that it is bad, yeah

[trail glen]

Noted

[tight spire]

you can try to run tailwind on it, but its just a really bad pokemon

like what are you walling

you get double targeted, there's snow teams

gliscor can't wall anything

[peak crypt]

this is a springboard for a bigger point: you have kind of built this like a singles team, but there's a lot of stuff that's important in building doubles teams that you'd miss without being told

[trail glen]

Makes sense

[peak crypt]

Protect is arguably the most important move in the entire format, and unless you're using a Choice item, Assault Vest, or Fake Out (which you could argue is the second best move in the format), you need a very good reason to drop it

[trail glen]

I imagine this also means stuff like spikey sheild are also very good

[peak crypt]

coverage moves like Crunch on Dachsbun, Earthquake on Moon, and Gleam on Gholdengo are less important than it would be in singles, because you have two targets to choose from and one of your stronger moves can probably hit one of those

yes

one of the important things that comes from having two enemies is also having an ally next to you, which generally makes Earthquake and Lava Plume really risky

if Dachsbun faints, your current Chi-Yu set will just kill your team

[trail glen]

I see

[peak crypt]

I'd advise taking a look at the sample teams - not necessarily to replace what you have, but to see what kinds of things are successful and how their sets are constructed https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/

I didn't mean to steal your thunder @rose juniper

go walk ya dog

[trail glen]

https://pokepast.es/a9a5c6404c386da3
So would this be a better team

Ignore the flame orb

I was doing bad poke science

I was hoping the burn would proc well baked lol

[peak crypt]

White Herb is never really going to do anything for you on Gholdengo

it doesn't proc if you go from +2 to +1, and a lot of times it'll get eaten up by an Incineroar switching in

[trail glen]

It saves me from make it rain debuffs

[peak crypt]

except it doesn't, because of the message I just typed

Incineroar will switch in to absorb a Make it Rain, Intimidate will trigger, and your White Herb will remove the Attack debuff that you don't care about

[trail glen]

Then what do you suggest

[peak crypt]

a "quick fix" would probably be to run Hearthflame Ogerpon over Corviknight and swap the Whimsicott for a Tornadus

Chi-Yu also actually really likes its Dark moves and does not want four Fire moves; Snarl is really useful for helping Gholdengo set up, and Dark Pulse is a stronger hit into things like Wellspring Ogerpon, Raging Bolt, and Gouging Fire

Hearthflame is also immune to burns and can Tera Fire to mostly ignore Chi-Yu's Lava Plumes in the worst case scenario

[trail glen]

Then dog sits on it

[peak crypt]

"worst case scenario" meaning "your Dachsbun has fainted and Chi-Yu is locked into Lava Plume, but if you switch you're in bigger trouble"

[trail glen]

Ah

Also

Is wish useful

[peak crypt]

not really, no

double battles are fast paced and sometimes you will need to change your plan on a dime

which makes Wish and Wish-passing relatively unreliable

[trail glen]

Hmmmmm

Can I replace corviaknight with diancie

[peak crypt]

Diancie is also good but I don't think this is a great team for it

[trail glen]

I was just thinking if dog got overwhelmed it could give its buffs to diancie which could use stored power

[peak crypt]

you start running into a pretty big issue with opposing Gholdengo when you have one and a half checks

Stored Power is generally never worth using

[trail glen]

Ah

[peak crypt]

the standard Diancie is just Diamond Storm / Body Press / Trick Room / Protect

[trail glen]

Okay so body press still works out

[peak crypt]

running Diancie also means your entire team is weak to Landorus-I

whose main coverage move is Sludge Bomb

[trail glen]

Hmm

[peak crypt]

swapping Whimsicott to Torn gives you something that can switch in on Earth Power or Sandsear Storm and only takes neutral damage from Sludge Bomb

[trail glen]

https://pokepast.es/e48859294544d6ed

Is this better?

[peak crypt]

I still don't really think Diancie fits this team

and the White Herb really needs to be gone

[trail glen]

Oh I meant to change it

Heatran isn't in gen 9 is he?

[peak crypt]

Heatran is available! It is sadly not very good in a world of Wellspring, Raging Bolt, Landorus, and Pelipper

[trail glen]

Tho if I ran heatran over chi-yu I could do a trick room team

Tho he wouldn't stand much of a chance with his 4× weakness

https://pokepast.es/216f6198c229b588

Got this

[normal aurora]

what the dashbun doing there?

[trail glen]

^

@normal aurora

[normal aurora]

ok I see

The main problem witht this team us that dashbun although a cool pokemon, it unfortunately can't match up well into a lot of mons

the main threats will be landorus I and raging bolt, raging bilt can be a problem since the bread doggo cant really hit it too hard unless you get the lavaplume double defense

and landorus I can easily kill if you cant tera your daschbun

And for chi Yu I suggest replacing fire blast for heat wave since overheat is your insta kill button, you can also go for a nuce spread mkve that wont kill your own pokemon if dashbun gets knocked out

personally my suggestion is to replace the dashbun with raging bolt since it takes advantage of both sunny day and beads of ruin

its also better at killings things that your team may struggle with such as incin, waterpon, and opposing tornadus

if you want, I can help with readjustment

@trail glen

oh and I noticed that your chi yu and rillaboom have their default teras

I suggest either tera ghost or water for chi yu

and tera fire for rillaboom

[peak crypt]

Hugo already mentioned this, but beyond that, we try to achieve a certain level of "work within what people want to do"

[normal aurora]

oh

[peak crypt]

I'd always rather people have the best team possible, but I would also rather see more people play than not play, and if that means "make Dachsbun work as much as possible" then that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make

(the Tera suggestions are good, though Fire is also reasonable on Chi-Yu and Fairy would also work on Gholdengo)

[trail glen]

I mean playing full meta is easy I could just pull directly from samples that already work but then that just means everyone is the same

[normal aurora]

ok that sounds good

[trail glen]

The bun sweep is doing good so far tho lol

[normal aurora]

(I forgot to mention thsi but for dashbun, you should def give it play rough instead of baton pass so that it can make full ise if its typing)

[trail glen]

Tera Type fighting for body press

Play rough just dosent do alot

Even if se

Physic fangs to remove screens seems more useful

[normal aurora]

Oh I think the tera type for the dog is good, its just that baton pass is just not nearly as good in doubles, and that play rough could be useful, especially if you need to take down opposing dragon mons

[trail glen]

Yk...

I feel like a bread dog

Should be able to learn harden

Ty for the help everyone I think i should be able to take the team from here

[normal aurora]

I mean NP

[tardy lantern]

https://pokepast.es/ed4dd04bf08cf9c6

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[tardy lantern]

I've never used diancie before so I'm not quite sure how exactly it plays but the main point of posting this here is for some constructive criticism

[peak crypt]

bingle

I don't know if this is really the place for Belly Drum Hands, I think that guy requires heavier commitment

WP Diancie with Pao is a hell of a wincon already

I think a standard AV Hands will suit this team a lot better than a setup hands

you could also swap Amoonguss for Sinistcha

[trail glen]

Hey, just hit 1400 in DOU with the team thanks for the help

[peak crypt]

let's goooooooo

[trail glen]

The bread doggo tactic actually works surprisingly well

Most people have literally no idea what I'm doing with dashbun untill it's too late and sweeping lol

[peak crypt]

(I'm still waiting for the day when someone says "just hit 1400 with your team, I was 1500 yesterday, what the fuck dude")

[trail glen]

The biggest issue with the bread dog tactic is like any gimmick if they stop it early I'm cooked

Like if they get turn 1 kill

[trail glen]

Oh I was at bottom of the ladder before

1100 or maybe lower

I only got onto showdown to try this tactic

I'm trying to make a trick room version but I have to get creative

[torpid moat]

trick room would probably be a similar gimmick just with torkoal

but diancie really is so much stronger and efficient of a tr-based body press mon

you can even viably run gimmicks with diancie like self-activate weakness policy

[trail glen]

I had the same thought

[torpid moat]

arctic's suggestions are good, just gonna mention the other really common choice over amoong here is waterpon, because it adds another solid answer to lando-i, which is very important for diancie hands teams

[trail glen]

Oh also I took away baton pass like you said and replaced it with roar it absolutely ruins alot of people

[normal aurora]

Question: Have you guys thought of OTS similar to vgc or do you guys think the movesets and tera should remain anonymous

[stuck flame]

Hey, I have played alot with this team lately and want some help how I can make it better: https://pokepast.es/7b69eab6597ff483

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

Hatterene without Indeedee is aggressively mediocre

You’d probably be better off replacing the Farigiraf with an Indeedee so you can run Expanding Force on Hatt

[stuck flame]

Sounds like a cool idea. cant use sucker punch in terrain, but ill try

[torpid moat]

grimmsnarl also doesn't make much sense here, your team is very offensive and doesn't really care about setting up screens when mons like regidrago don't want to get hit at all

if you want to protect your other mons, try follow me ogerpon-hearthflame

or fake out incineroar maybe

[stuck flame]

Ill try, but the indeedee I didnt lik. I want to use prio

[peak crypt]

Then your next best option is to remove the Hatterene entirely

[severe mango]

Is this for Doubles OU?

Assuming it is, I tried cooking up a Mono-Fire team, featuring Solar Power Charizard, a hot turtle, and my favorite animal.

I am also complete dogshit with team comp. in general and tera type meta.

[normal aurora]

okpk

Forst things first

incin is a support mon so lowkick and throat chop although good isnt the beat for him

I would reccomend replacing them with knock off and will o wisp so that incin can work at its fullest potential

oh and replace its item with covert cloak to smth like safrey googles or sitrus berry and change its tera to ghost

Torkoal may seem cool at first but given that there are very little good fire mins that know trick room

I would suggest swapping it for another month like firepon or volc

[peak crypt]

what else would DOU stand for

[severe mango]

I chose Torkoal to set up sun and for Clear Smog support.

[normal aurora]

yea but guven its shit speed, it often is used under trick room

so that eruption can just instakill

[peak crypt]

I think you really need to be on both Hearthflame Ogerpon and Volcanion

they just give you way more reach into dangerous stuff

[normal aurora]

also the entei crown guy should not have body slam

nor should it have raging fury

[severe mango]

Okay then here's my thoughts then:

[normal aurora]

My best suggestion if you wanna keep choice band is

[severe mango]

Torkoal to Ogerpon
Arcanine to Volcanion?

[normal aurora]

heat crash, breaking swipe, iron head, and stine edge

yep

[peak crypt]

dropping Torkoal on mono-Fire seems really bad

[severe mango]

Yeah that's what I thought

[peak crypt]

the two worst Pokemon here are Charizard and Arcanine

[severe mango]

I'd probably drop Arcanine first.

[peak crypt]

like Charizard in sun seems cool on paper

but I'm pretty sure Chi-Yu in sun just straight up does more damage

[severe mango]

It would be really funny to slap a Life Orb on Charizard though

[peak crypt]

thanks to the higher SpA and Beads

your sets are also really messy, like Dee mentioned

Chi-Yu's job is to deal One Thousand Damage to everything in front of it; it's really bad at setting screens

[normal aurora]

Also for Chi yu, its best if u guve it choice scarf

[peak crypt]

Torkoal has no Fire moves for some reason

[normal aurora]

and replace the screens with heat wave and snarl/psychic

heast wave sinc wit can ko both mins

snarl if you want support

[peak crypt]

and something like Dragon Dance / Heat Crash / Dragon Claw / Burning Bulwark with Clear Amulet, or maybe Howl over DD, will serve Gouging Fire better

[normal aurora]

and psychic if you feel like your team needs coverage

also tera water/grass/ghost are the best options for chi yu

[peak crypt]

don't bother with Psychic on Chi-Yu, it doesn't hit anything for more damage than Sun boosted Overheat would

[normal aurora]

or fire if you need that damage

[peak crypt]

I also don't know if I agree that Scarf is actually the best set

[severe mango]

Man I'm bad at this lmao

[normal aurora]

its ok

when I started I used a murkrow event though torn was already added

it was during the teal mask dlc

[peak crypt]

I'd probably give this a shot https://pokepast.es/2663410c4c6a7f3c

I left Gouging Fire mostly blank because there are a couple different options

if you want to run the Howl set, you'll be more interested in dropping some Attack to get a Speed boost from Protosynthesis

if you want to run Dragon Dance, then 252/4/252 will give you a lot more damage

[normal aurora]

tera blast grass?

[peak crypt]

running monotype means you have to make some concessions to hit stuff you can't normally hit

I would rather it be Tera Ground, but this team has exactly one move that can hit a Water type for decent damage

also in hindsight the Incin can drop Flare Blitz for Will-o-Wisp, Snarl, or a similar support move; it's not really an attacker so much as a bulky pivot, and extra utility won't hurt

maybe even Sunny Day

[normal aurora]

can i ask: why dies incin have heavy duty boots?

[peak crypt]

because it is the best item for Incineroar in the format

there will be some matchups where it doesn't help you much

but when it matters it's huge

it enables you to repeatedly cycle Fake Out and Parting Shot against teams running Ting-Lu and Glimmora

and just generally lets it play better against other Stealth Rock setters

Stealth Rock is not on every team, but it's still important to be aware of

[empty holly]

I've tried cooking up a dozen teams so far but I've had the most success with the very first doubles team I ever made. I'm in the top 200 right now, but I feel like I've mostly had lucky streaks/good reads rather than a well made team. (Peep my 252/252 spreads. Farigiraf is the only stat spread I pulled from Munchstats)

Any tips are appreciated as I'm still looking to improve this

[peak crypt]

Honestly there’s really nothing Walking Wake can do that Raging Bolt can’t do better

It’s stronger, it’s bulkier, and it makes up for being slower with Thunderclap

Beyond that, Alcremie is kind of dodgy but this is a pretty basic sun team otherwise

[empty holly]

That's fair, I was just worried about stacking too many priority moves since I opted for ice shard over spinner on Chien Pao, and I felt that I needed water STAB for other sun teams

I really like running Alcremie though, Sweet Veil + encore is really helpful in a lot of match ups

[normal aurora]

okok

Also the brute bonnet, idk if you wanna keep it or not but I reccomend replacing it with smth like ammonguss or the rillaboom

[empty holly]

I thought about Rillaboom, but the 50/50 of spore and sucker punch has been satisfying

Life orb proto sucker punch goes hard

[normal aurora]

And for walking wake, Ive used it a lot and The personal best evs are 12hp 248special attack, and 252 speed

[hushed ice]

I've played like 3 games total and just had my first win, I put together this deck mostly by searching up how the game works online, does anybody have any tips on how I can improve it?

[normal aurora]

with timid nature

[normal aurora]

oh

I would say Im currently a student trying to learn how to properly rate teams

idk how im doing but ill give it a try

[hushed ice]

anyone has a better idea than me at this point lmao

[normal aurora]

ok

you dont mind if I replace some mons right?

[hushed ice]

torterra stays

[normal aurora]

ok got it

[empty holly]

I'll try running a speedy wake for a bit. My original thought was just to never get one-shot on it, but yeah the speed stat isn't in a good spot to be useful in or out of trick room

[empty holly]

Would regular Raichu be better than alolan? You don't have a way to use surge surfer, and having lightning rod would support your gyarados. Also might be better to just use AV on Raichu rather than protect

[hushed ice]

I was just thinking that it would be immune to torterras earthquake because it floated

i'll switch if not

[empty holly]

Oh nah, only if it has levitate or flying type or some other ground-immune ability

[hushed ice]

wow mb

[empty holly]

hahah no worries, the sprite is misleading

[normal aurora]

you wanna keep alcremie right?

[empty holly]

I'm not deadset on alcremie, but if I remove it I might need more than bonnet to avoid spore/sleep

[normal aurora]

ok ill keep it for now

[empty holly]

Yeah i think I would have to run some grass teras or change items for goggles otherwise i'll get shut down by amoonguss

[empty holly]

Just a couple other things - Since torterra is your only grass type and built for shell smash sweep, you probably want your indeedee to have safety goggles so you can take spore for the other 4 mons in your team. Indeedee probably wants any tera that isn't psychic as well, since it's not going to be built for damage

[hushed ice]

okok cool

[peak crypt]

I can get back to Soko’s and get to donut’s in an Official™️ fashion in a couple hours, hopefully less

[empty holly]

Thank you!!

[peak crypt]

that being said

I see you saying “this deck” @hushed ice you can’t hide your cards from me

[normal aurora]

@empty holly Done https://pokepast.es/bf2bb50ba1ceac14

@hushed ice Done https://pokepast.es/5eefe185548b8d3a

[peak crypt]

Dee I need you to stop posting for a while

[normal aurora]

why?

[peak crypt]

I don’t think your idea for Soko’s team is particularly great and it definitely doesn’t replace the worst Pokemon on the team (Wake is garbage)

[empty holly]

I'll try this out for a while tonight, tysm

[peak crypt]

and you kind of didn’t really help donut at all you just built something else

(I genuinely think Walking Wake is awful and gets its usage propped up by cool factor, I bet it has a worse winrate than Alcremie in OSDT)

[empty holly]

I think with amoonguss + ogerpon i probably won't need alcremie, but i think there's merit in wake on sun teams personally and i still like how the rest of the team is looking

[hushed ice]

thanks a lot 🔥

[peak crypt]

wow that took

way longer than I expected

[peak crypt]

To expand a little bit more on Walking Wake, I really, honestly do think this is the worst Pokemon that somehow keeps making it into DOU by usage. A Water type you can use in Sun is pretty cool in theory, but in practice, it doesn't really beat anything that Landorus or Raging Bolt can't beat. The extra Speed is cool (should you invest in it), but speed control is so abundant that you'll often find it's not as good as you think. Tornadus and Sinistcha are both super easy to fit onto teams, and Diancie teams are built to find the exact opportunity to use Trick Room that will mess you up the most. If you opt to run Special Attack boosting Wake instead of Speed boosting, you miss out on outrunning Ogerpon and Tornadus, which is arguably the most important speed tier in the format, and you risk speed tying Alolan Ninetales (or worse) who can Freeze Dry you.

Wake's damage also just isn't all that. It finds itself lacking damage compared to things like Hearthflame and Raging Bolt, even in Sun, and Water coverage is pretty mediocre in the current format compared to the long list of things a Pokemon like Landorus-I can threaten. This leaves your more threatening attack as Draco Meteor, which is still outdone by Raging Bolt.

I think @normal aurora's suggestion of Hearthflame over Chien-Pao is a good one; it gives you both a potent redirection option and an absolute nuke in sun (go run some Tera Ivy Cudgel calcs, you'll have a good time). I actually don't hate Bonnet, to be perfectly honest. I think Amoonguss is generally better but I don't think Amoonguss and Torkoal are actually all that cool together. Bonnet can even drop Seed Bomb for Close Combat if you want, and actually threaten the Incineroar you know wants to soak up Torkoal's Eruption. I think replacing the Walking Wake with a Raging Bolt is a strict upgrade; you can retain the bulk you had with AV while just having an all-around better Pokemon. As for Alcremie, I actually think your best bet is swapping it for a standard Diancie. This team is relatively slow, and having a second Pokemon to set Trick Room feels like a huge benefit. Diancie lacks the support options that Alcremie has, but makes up for it by being a threat on its own; Diamond Storm is a good, consistent damage source that can boost Body Press for free. Diancie also does a good job of threatening the things that can take an Eruption from Torkoal.

@empty holly

(on Spore specifically: Hearthflame can redirect Spore from Amoonguss with Follow Me, and Diancie generally runs either Safety Goggles or Tera Grass to beat Spore)

this is a lot of text so feel free to ask whatever questions you might have

[empty holly]

I really appreciate the time you spent on this, I think you explained it all pretty well. I'm gonna build a team on this and see how it feels, I'll let you know this weekend

I'll accept the criticism on Wake, admittedly I haven't really tried Raging Bolt at all

[peak crypt]

Raging Bolt fucking rules

[peak crypt]

I don't really like this team, and I think the reason is it feels like the Torterra that was asked for is an afterthought. The set isn't ideal and the Pokemon isn't well supported; it's kind of just there to be there. I'm also not a huge fan of full bulk Sash Tornadus or Booster Bolt here. I think this particular team would benefit a lot from AV Bolt, Covert Cloak Torn with Sunny Day, and a Hearthflame over Torterra.

I think a team really built around Torterra would require better protection and stronger answers to the things that resist Grass and Ground - unironically Snow might be the right place for it. If you're interested @hushed ice I can see what I can spin up in the builder

[normal aurora]

I will admit, I was gonna add a follow me mon but ig I forgot when I added incin

[hushed ice]

Wym snow, like Ice types?

[empty holly]

Yeah, he's probably referring to building Torterra alongside Alolan-Ninetales and something that synergizes like Kyurem. Ice types get +50% physical defense (i think that's right) in the snow, and Alolan-Ninetales gets aurora veil, which reduces attack damage against your pokemon by 1/3 for several turns

[tight spire]

Ground types synergize well with snow play styles which is the idea here (they cover steel rock and fire types after all) but

[empty holly]

Yeah torterra and kyurem would have really wide coverage, freeze dry is also just super valuable against a lot of matchups

[polar lotus]

https://pokepast.es/c4e2cd2e21896a7e

[halcyon panther]

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[polar lotus]

Guys I want to pull off an armarouge and seal team...
This is just a draft, is there anything I could change to make it more efficient?!

[tight spire]

Sorry my dude but

[polar lotus]

Maybe I need some coverage?!
Or an intimidate mon... Like Landorus-

[tight spire]

OHKO moves are banned

In DOU

So you can't your enemies

[polar lotus]

BRUH WHAT- 😭 than why do they exist 💔

Than that seel is useless 🫠

[tight spire]

Because they exist in the base game, this is a format that seeks to balance the game

[peak crypt]

because sometimes the 7 year old at local Pokemon league deserves to win a game

(but what fangame said is more accurate and more relevant)

[shrewd iron]

I also want to be tagged, that's so cool

[polar lotus]

Would it still work if I replace that OHKO move with Whirlpool to trap my enemies

[tight spire]

I bet you used dozo with fissure Arctic....mmmmm

[shrewd iron]

I don't think it would be any playable

[polar lotus]

I would sure like to lol... But Donbozo is such a cool mon with nice movepool to waste that move on him lol

[peak crypt]

so generally the gimmick with Armarouge is

you use something like Iron Bundle and trigger Weak Armor with Flip Turn

[polar lotus]

Yeah lol and a Fast Indeedee male

[peak crypt]

so you can go directly into Indeedee and click boosted Expanding Force

[tight spire]

Iron Bundle snow with flip gimmkck

That could work

[polar lotus]

Iron bundle would almost take him to half or less HP 💀

[shrewd iron]

Nah, you can put min atk 0 EVs

[peak crypt]

0- Atk 0 IVs Iron Bundle Flip Turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Armarouge: 84-98 (27 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

[polar lotus]

Oh yeah that thing is special attacker T.T never used it so I forgor

Well the Terrain would keep me alive from priority and I need speed control and Redirection

So maybe I can use Regieleki with electroweb for speed or tailwind Tornadus

[shrewd iron]

Regieleki isn't great

[polar lotus]

And maybe a F indeedee for redirection or my Ogerpon could do it too

[shrewd iron]

Yeah I think indeedee would be F

[polar lotus]

But it looks like a chill lil fella to me :3
One of my favourite Regi

[polar lotus]

And I need coverage against other threats... So maybe Gholdengo and Ogerpon are alright?!

Maybe I could use Chien Pao for opposing Rillaboom who removes terrain or chi-yu to burn my opponents down

So basically a hyper offense team with a lil support

I think Landorus-T would be great but idk I've never used it...

I need to pivot out so I could use Icy Wind than bring in safely the armoruge than hit him with Flip Turn or smth

[peak crypt]

you usually don't bother with that

you just hit the Flip Turn ASAP with Booster Energy

so Bundle moves before everything, Armarouge gets the speed boost, Armarouge is now very fast

it's a little bit all-or-nothing and can get screwed over by priority moves if you try it too soon

[polar lotus]

Yeah... I would need some other leads too!!

But thanks you gave me a lead... Lemme try a new team all over again XD

https://pokepast.es/c17b3485da2217e7

[polar lotus]

How about something like this lol...
Well it kinda looks off.. and even worse than before, idk why I even thought this +_+