no, but hand attack, then cudgel on the following turn would
#Smogon Doubles Rates
torpid moat
that's the "advantage" you could have gained from protecting
is turning a trade into a kill
tardy dragon
ok
torpid moat
that's about it for me, the idea is that a better player will at least attempt to gain advantage with protects, and never throw things away for nothing
note that you can still do things like sacrifice to take a hit or better position, I'm talking about sacrificing for no advantage at all due to mistakes or lack of knowledge etc
tardy dragon
@torpid moat Hey
I forgot what u said about ogerpon evs
You said nothing I don't think
I want to try improving ogers evs though
torpid moat
I said the def/spdef evs should be put into hp instead
tardy dragon
ok
tardy dragon
I made a few mistakes here too
sometimes I blunder greninja early on
maybe leading greninja is just a bad idea in general
I expected the chi yu torkal lead
it was torkal rillaboom
I hate that monkey
I think Ill do better if I expect people to underestimate greninja until the battle bond boost
bc I was expecting a fake out into gren
considering my tera and ice beam
but I failed to think about the fact that they dont know that
I did right in targetting arch I feel though
realistically I lost gren due to a slightly too low dmg roll Im pretty sure
but that doesnt change that it has a chance to make me lose gren
early on
so I should prlly do rilla damage calcs
and make my team better suited to kill him fast
I cant find anything on my team that can 1 shot rilla rn
tera ice helping hand gren can but thats a lot required
to 1 shot just one mon on the field
anyone got tips for dealing with rilla?
tardy dragon
@torpid moat Yo
I wanna try a new team
Im going to let go of the greninja required rule for a bit
I still want to use greninja but he objectively is not that good in dou
and I have to get better
so trying more things will help prlly
for my new team Im going to try meowscarada and chien pao
Im gonna make a bunch of teams
tardy dragon
peak crypt
None of your Pokémon have natures except Meowscarada, which has the wrong nature
Timid lowers Attack
tardy dragon
Timid lowers Attack
oh shit
tardy dragon
so I added natures to em
cosmic pasture
Peli into a thunderbolt was a bad play, clod never runs unaware so you should have cudgeled electross, setting twind when ogerpon outspeeds the entire field was a waste set rain dance so cudgel probably ohkos electross
Fake news ursa cress always has eq
And uh
No other mon
Be careful of eq if you see orthworm though
tardy dragon
Peli into a thunderbolt was a bad play, clod never runs unaware so you should ha...
I didnt know oger outspeeds everyone
I made this tho
cosmic pasture
I didnt know oger outspeeds everyone
that was information you could readily get from the battle screen
cosmic pasture
Rate my team fr
Grimm is wasted torn pao and meows are not living anything even with screens
wispy kindle
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
wispy kindle
https://pokepast.es/7495169298215c4b
can anyone rate my team
cosmic pasture
can anyone rate my team
arch is completely out of place
no rain setter on an electro shot set, though IDBP would be ass anyways
replace that with tornadus probably
covert cloak Tailwind Bleakwind storm
otherwise it looks solid
peak crypt
I think “completely out of place” is a little extreme
but I think I’ve seen that same six but with Glimmora in the Arch slot a couple times
nova inlet
hi, i have done a team with pokemons that I liked, it has some gimmicks but it has been working pretty well
tardy dragon
nova inlet
althought i have problems with a few types
tardy dragon
Put the poke past in here
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
nova inlet
it's a trick room team
tardy dragon
The more I look into Greninja vs Meowscarada the more I realize Meowscarada was literally made to be better in every way 😦
I could only find 2 things gren has to seperate em from meowscarada
one being the fact electric moves will be clicked on you and with protean plus ground moves could make some tricks unfold
two being the nerfed and banned from official format battle bond
torpid moat
and meow is also pretty damn unviable in dou
rilla, waterpon/firepon, chien pao all outclass it in some way
peak crypt
https://pokepast.es/8d74f99df8ac433e
hey, if you're around I can help you with this 1 on 1
it's a little easier to explain things in a conversation than in a big wall of text
if you don't respond in an hour I'll just write it up though, so dw if it's super late
nova inlet
hey, if you're around I can help you with this 1 on 1
i would love to
can you send me a dm when you are online?
tardy dragon
rilla, waterpon/firepon, chien pao all outclass it in some way
So the only scenario in which greninja is able to be helpful is in one where you get a ko and dont get hit by the 2nd pokemon at all that whole turn and then have the ability to steam roll the team without swapping out gren
they both are cooked mons
Incineroar is another mon I like a lot though and yeah...
Incin has been doing pretty good
cosmic pasture
Even at +1 greninja lacks the damage options to deal with alot of the metagame
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 291-343 (72 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
tardy dragon
Protean Ash-Greninja
karmic wharf
using tailwind with explosion or telepathy with discharge, masquerain provides helping hand and aqua jet to trigger weakness policy on armarouge, can tera ghost to support explosion users too
so far this is the best team ive made, it got me to 1348 which is the highest ive gotten, but i want to know how i can improve on this to get even higher
also golem earthquake paired with zapdos discharge has been pretty solid since theyre immune to each other
plus ghost on zapdos too for explosions
i usually suffer hard in trick rooms because i set up tailwind so explosions can get used
any advice?
peak crypt
I really hate to put it this way, but the best way to describe this is you are trying to make a cake with chicken broth and expired milk—the basic parts are just not going to hold up and produce something good
my advice would really just be to pick one of Disquake/Explosion/Armarouge and trim the rest for Pokemon that are excellent
karmic wharf
that sounds about right. My teams feels like im trying to play at two ends of the spectrum at the same time and when somebody brings me back to reality i suffer hard for it
and i do tend to prefer less ou pokemon but still want to perform in ou. Once i got above like 1250 i realized i was fighting the same 10-15 pokemon every single game
like same group of pokemon yk
what sucks is noivern is so fast and i love using him for tailwind but he almost always gets knocked out immediately after
sometimes im able to keep him up through an explosion or have him up there with zapdos for a couple turns but it usually doesnt work out for him
peak crypt
I think if you want to lean into Explosion, you can hang onto the Noivern and Metagross and lean on stuff like Chien-Pao as a backup plan
torpid moat
there's tornadus and roaring moon as more reliable tailwind options, but yeah those don't work with boom
peak crypt
Metagross Exploding as Pao uses Protect is going to send most things directly to the center of the earth
torpid moat
ghost is also a very viable tera on pao
karmic wharf
is pao special or phys?
torpid moat
physical
torpid moat
its whole deal is boosting physical damage for everyone
with sword of ruin
for other mons you should probably add like firepon as a strong damage dealer that covers kingambit/gholdengo
or landorus-i to help with archaludon
if you want to lean more into the gimmicky side, you can try scarf last respects basculegion-f
to go with the explosion
peak crypt
I’m going to make a quick mockup and then send it to Paint to repost (because I am using the work computer to teambuild and can’t log into Discord from there)
torpid moat
I'm on my phone with a shitty connection, how are you sending it to me, smogon pm?
torpid moat
yikes
peak crypt
wouldn’t be the first time
@karmic wharf
this is a little experimental, but the core idea is Pao/Metagross/Rilla/Basc should shred through a lot of things
Noivern provides Tailwind and can still attack next to Explosion
The Skeledirge is a combination of “you mentioned you wanted to use some less common Pokemon” and “oh my god the Trick Room matchup might suck”—it also carries Leer to try to set up for the physical attackers later, and outspeeds Metagross by one point
I don’t have a ton of confidence that the croc is the “right” choice but this should be a stronger base for you to work with
torpid moat
there's ceruledge instead of dirge maybe
but yeah in a legit team landorus is mandatory in that slot for beating arch
a pao answer in that slot is also pretty desirable
it'd be pretty funny if we managed to make a team where keldeo is the ideal 6th
but most likely steel tera lando-i would still be better
peak crypt
there's ceruledge instead of dirge maybe
I’ve been a pretty vocal hater of the phys-stack team archetype so I wanted to put a special attacker in that slot
karmic wharf
if you want to lean more into the gimmicky side, you can try scarf last respects...
is basculegion ubers?
peak crypt
Male Basculegion is
karmic wharf
oh okay
peak crypt
female Basculegion is not
twilit wedge
thoughts? https://pokepast.es/daf515e8939f71b4
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
peak crypt
my quick thoughts are you don’t really need both Amoonguss and Sinistcha and also Oranguru is a really mediocre Pokemon that really doesn’t offer anything that another TR setter doesn’t
Instruct is not a good move
twilit wedge
ive been using instruct, seems really niche but ive had it work well with ursaluna in tr
peak crypt
You could be using a Cresselia that benefits your team a lot more with Lunar Blessing
or something like Indeedee or Farigiraf that keeps Fake Out and other priority off your threats
twilit wedge
true, though it is funny to watch a tera normal ursaluna wipe via facade and instruct imo
peak crypt
Oranguru just kind of sits there and hopes the thing next to it can 2v1
twilit wedge
i also chose oranguru for telepathy, that way i can double eq without any real drawback
peak crypt
I also don’t think Garganacl is really helping you—Trick Room is ultimately a hyper offense playstyle, and you really want both of your Pokémon to have a significant impact on the board at once
Garg also kind of just sits around
it’s a Pokémon that really doesn’t care about going first or second, so Trick Room doesn’t benefit it very much, and because it’s relatively passive, it doesn’t benefit Trick Room much
twilit wedge
true
typically i dont have to use garganacl unless i get bad type matchups, and it has managed to save quite a few matches w/ salt cure. more like a last resort type thing
peak crypt
I think if I had to make a “quick summary” of changes
Oranguru —> Cresselia
Amoonguss —> Incineroar
Garganacl —> Diancie
Incin lets you use Fake Out to set up Trick Room more reliably and can Parting Shot to bring Ursaluna in, which saves you a turn because you don’t need to Protect to get burned
twilit wedge
i was running incineroar/diance here, but also with amoonguss still https://pokepast.es/5bfe2f7e29130a19
ill give that a try
peak crypt
those exact Diancie and Incin sets will be good on this version too
I’d actually consider making Diancie a little fast though
Fast enough to outrun minspeed Cress outside of Trick Room
So that you can Lunar Blessing with the Cress under TR, which would cleanse burns or sleep, and then freely attack with Diancie
twilit wedge
should i set it o a different nature then? or just give it ivs in speed
twilit wedge
ah
this is what i have now, gonna give it a go https://pokepast.es/2fdc4f5e8ea44bf6
peak crypt
I’d advise Life Dew over Shadow Ball but I think that one is up to preference
karmic wharf
is there any use for sableye in doubles?
like i know he’s weak in stats and i assume there are better pranksters but does he shine in any areas by himself?
also- same question goes for base form rotom. And then my next question is how hard would it be to use both of those mons on an all ghost team
torpid moat
like i know he’s weak in stats and i *assume* there are better pranksters but do...
sableye actually has somewhat of a niche in dubers because of quash, disable, fake out/prankster immunity
stat wise though it's just extremely frail while also being slow and nonthreatening
in dubers it can just sash and be fine, but in dou there's just better pranksters available with more worthwhile bulk or utility
polar lotus
stat wise though it's just extremely frail while also being slow and nonthreaten...
But it can be used as Screen Setter too right
- foul play for some stab and Helping hand or smth hehe
Btw guys... It's my first time trying competitive Pokemon
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
polar lotus
https://pokepast.es/567e72e9b08229b7
How's this team... What improvements I need
I was trying an illusion spread move team
And I often disguise myself as Archaludon and sometimes Hatterene
tight spire
How's this team... What improvements I need
Using hatterene without psychic terrain isn't gonna be very useful, you wanna be able to maximize its effect in trick room before the turns end. so you should get an indeedee for it. Aside from that idk if the Archaludon rain core mixes well with hatterene and zoroark
You could try a sample team if it is your first time, I believe we have some nice Archaludon teams
polar lotus
Using hatterene without psychic terrain isn't gonna be very useful, you wanna be...
Uhm... What does Psychic Terrain do 😅
I've seen it stopping Priority attacks and does it increase Psychic Type attacks?!
I wanna utilise it more as a Fairy type right away by spamming dazzling gleam.. I rarely use its Psychic move when it's super effective or just to stop healing
And I just noticed my Archaludon had weird EV spread... Just changed it rn lol
polar lotus
You could try a sample team if it is your first time, I believe we have some nic...
I wanted it more to be Zoroark illusion core team ;-; but thanks
tight spire
Uhm... What does Psychic Terrain do 😅
I've seen it stopping Priority attacks an...
It stops priority and boosts psychic damage
It also allows expanding force to hit multiple foes
And boosts that moves power
cosmic pasture
Boosts is a strange way to spell doubles
peak crypt
it doesn’t double the damage
you do get doubled damage in singles, but spread reduction kicks in here
cosmic pasture
Goddamn game balance
worldly jewel
https://pokepast.es/d50d070cbf908536
currently low 1300 with this team, any opinions on what to switch around?
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
rose juniper
I can take a look if you want
what are you going for with this team
as in are you trying to climb the ladder and be as competitive as possible or are you just trying to use your favorite mons
@worldly jewel
worldly jewel
both honesty, i’m trying to make top 500, but with a mix of mons
i’m thinking ambi is the weakest link
rose juniper
hmmm
I mean yes but at the same time there is more that needs to be changed if you want a well build team
ogerpon and gambit are good pokemon and for sure worth using
heatran and boulder are oke-ish mons, not really good but on a few teams they can have a niche (this isn't one of them) and pecharunt and ambi are not really viable
worldly jewel
heard i’ll see what i can do
lucid rain
i made a really weird team, but when i tried it out on an alt it wasn't too bad
anyone take a look? https://pokepast.es/7373fea2b37d4ce3
peak crypt
I love the giant soccer ball but I think you can do much better than Dragonite / Skeledirge / Lando-T
my initial thought is probably Incineroar / Tornadus / Glimmora
you still have a reliable hazard setter, a switchin for most things that threaten Ice, and a thing to click Earthquake next to, but you increase the overall quality of the Pokemon
Tornadus gives you Tailwind support so Cetitan is less bound to snow (and Ninetales can swap Snowscape to Protect)
and Incin Glimm over Lando-T Skeledirge is kind of just swapping roles around - Incineroar is a better Intimidate user than Lando-T and a better Fire-type than Skeledirge, and Glimmora is a better hazard setter than Lando-T and a better special attacker than Skeledirge
you could also try something like Incineroar / Lando-I / Suicune
either of those three sets of Pokemon will improve your Incineroar matchup pretty significantly - currently you don't really have anything that outright beats it
Dragonite can ignore it but hitting Outrage is a daunting task sometimes, Lando-T doesn't appreciate being -1, and Skeledirge will get +2 but take like 60 from Knock Off in the process
winter axle
Moltres-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Berserk
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fiery Wrath
- Tera Blast
- Air Slash
- U-turn
Iron Hands @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Supercell Slam
Ogerpon-Wellspring @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Spiky Shield
- Power Whip
- Swords Dance
Ninetales-Alola (F) @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Aurora Veil
- Icy Wind
Sinistcha-Masterpiece @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Hospitality
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 70 HP / 252 Def / 186 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Matcha Gotcha
- Strength Sap
- Life Dew
- Hex
Glimmora (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Toxic Debris
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Mortal Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Spiky Shield
peak crypt
Moltres's best set is by far Nasty Plot
I'd actually say it's the only set worth using
the rest of these are pretty close for a first attempt
zoe you know more about Moltres than I do, do you want to take it from here
remote edge
you got me at the right time im playing geogussr but my friend set it to all quebec
moltres should always be nasty plot wrath protect, you can do tailwind or tera blast as the filler but no other set should be used
a lot of your sets are really off too
glim should probably be sash (with max SpA), hex sini is bad, sd ogerpon is bad here, hands should always be AV on these teams, and you always want clay on ninetales
the 6 is fine outside of that though (but replace ninetales with something else since its kinda just awkward here)
https://pokepast.es/1f06c01af00001da like this 5 is fine
in general with goltres you want a good mix of support (sustain in particular is invaluable) and immediate damage outside of it (cc hands and ogerpon both cover this while giving support)
bundle probs works fine here because it can hit ogerpon and icy wind smth like chien pao (which the spread outspeeds at -1) and hit it
if you want to guarentee that w.o tera then you have a funny option avaliable
+2 252 SpA Moltres-Galar Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chien-Pao: 310-366 (102.9 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(its the same SpA vtotal just different spread)
wait no air slash does min 96
yeah you can just go that here with bundle then
makes things easier
https://pokepast.es/aefb006bf06b4ae6 @winter axle boop
winter axle
@remote edge used the team once and won
Hot take its amazing
I love it
@peak crypt if you wanna check it out as well here ya go
cosmic pasture
https://pokepast.es/64a3e23688348771 any advice?
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
cosmic pasture
eq terraccotta because of the bitchass string cheese man hiding behind follow me ogerpon
peak crypt
I'm going to be real with you
Terracott sucks
like unless you're playing against Schister or way-too-honest fullroom it's just not good.
Iron Crown is also just terrible if it's not clicking Expanding Force
I don't like having both Raging Bolt and Iron Hands; generally teams can only support one of the fat Electrics and you run into Lando-I issues if you run two
Cloak Chi-Yu with four attacks is also not a real set; if you really feel so inclined to run three Covert Cloaks then you are probably just not respecting Incin and Rillaboom enough in battle
this is a really roundabout way of saying I think this team has some pretty severe flaws and there isn't a very clear avenue to fix it that isn't dramatically changing it
step 1 is definitely to replace one of your five Ground weak Pokemon though
cosmic pasture
So thats what ive been losing to
tardy dragon
@peak crypt Hey do yk if theres anything I can put like a poke past into that will tell me my type weaknesses and things I can hit offensively for me?
I used to use some pokedex apps team building but now its paywalled
peak crypt
not that I know of
I don't think those tell a complete story anyway
if you were to build a team and only look at the types it's weak to, you might see that your team is weak to Fairy
but if you then actually look at the DOU format, you will see that there... aren't really any Fairy attackers you need to worry about that much
there are five Fairies in DOU, but they are Diancie, Hatterene, Grimmsnarl, Ninetales-A, and Whimsicott
Diancie often drops Moonblast, and Grimm, Tales, and Whims aren't exactly hard hitters, so that just leaves you with Hatterene, and Hatt can be answered in ways beyond resistances
in other words
don't worry about beating types or being weak to types
worry about Pokemon
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
peak crypt
a sixth Pokemon would be a good start
right now this team is kind of vulnerable to Incineroar - while your physical attackers both hit it super effective, neither of them like being Intimidated, and the other three Pokemon are all weak to Knock Off and don't really deal damage in return
full TR teams generally like to have at least one Pokemon that can both set Trick Room and be an offensive threat, and replacing Farigiraf with Diancie would do exactly that for this team, while also matching up well into Incineroar
I think I like Primarina in the sixth slot here; Prim directly threatens Landorus and can take advantage of opposing rain
I'd also change Ursaluna to Tera Ghost to avoid Fake Outs and Dragonite
peak crypt
swap to Sassy not Impish on Diancie; Diamond Storm will often keep your physical defense up
I don't really like Throat Spray Primarina, I think Life Orb is a lot more consistent
with Sinistcha / Cress / Hands you're a little more interested in playing the long game than trying to end the game in four turns
and Throat Spray Prim doesn't do long games well
(and again, Tera Ghost Ursaluna - you really don't need the damage boost from Ground, you want to dodge Fake Out and Fighting moves)
cosmic pasture
https://pokepast.es/b1e0b0ed8eb9e7e8 any thoughts on diancie here
i got the other 5 from ratpacker
polar spear
and Throat Spray Prim doesn't do long games well
k
warped arrow
https://pokepast.es/b1e0b0ed8eb9e7e8 any thoughts on diancie here
dont use swagger or rat packer teams tbh
remote edge
...?
remote edge
https://pokepast.es/b1e0b0ed8eb9e7e8 any thoughts on diancie here
swagger is kinda cool but may be a bit situationsl
but I don't hate it
@cosmic pasture are the diancie EVs yours?
warped arrow
<@986961386640924722> are the diancie EVs yours?
thats just smog dex set with 4 hp in spdef to hit get odd hp
cosmic pasture
dont use swagger or rat packer teams tbh
why not ratpacker teams? is the skill floor too high?
warped arrow
He runs some WACK shit sometimes
cosmic pasture
so do my ladder opponents, which is what this team is for
peak crypt
at least someone’s building weird correctly
ratpacker teams are fine
sometimes you have to be ratpacker to understand then but sometimes they land in a better place
warped arrow
^
polar spear
how can I complete this niche
it works beautifully when I'm able to set it up
but in a varity of matches it can easily be disrupted
fake out on kommo-o
taunt on kommo-o
im able to get a lot out on latios but it depends on who they focus on
polar spear
oh you're the one who I keep playing on ladder
I won most of my matches
I only forfeited when the niche didnt work
plus I only have 3 pokemon
peak crypt
to some degree, you're going to have to understand that experienced players will see Kommo-o Latios at team preview and have a plan to beat it
there's no item or Tera type you can run to beat Follow Me Ogerpon with just Kommo-o Latios, there's nothing you can do about your opponent just presenting two lethal attackers turn 1 and forcing you to pick the right slot to Tera or pinning the Kommo-o with something like Chien-Pao + Landorus
the best thing you can do is send Flamigo directly to the shadow realm
if you have a Kommo-o at +2 in every stat with HP to spare, what do you need Flamigo for? it won't win you a game you're behind in
my best suggestion would be to add a couple general purpose redirection Pokemon (especially Sinistcha, who can heal Kommo-o after you Clang)
cosmic pasture
plus I only have 3 pokemon
huh what
peak crypt
and then just Good Pokemon™️ in the back
cosmic pasture
if you want it to work you can go all in and add stuff like sinistcha grimmsnarl and double fake out
peak crypt
build the team so you don't lose games if the combo gets interrupted, or so you don't need to pull off the combo
(or at least not immediately)
polar spear
if you have a Kommo-o at +2 in every stat with HP to spare, what do you need Fla...
To copy the stats lol
peak crypt
I know what it does mechanically
polar spear
idk i js thought of costar and tera steel to combat against fairy types
peak crypt
but if you pull off the combo, how does Flamigo actually help you win, as opposed to just steamrolling an opponent you've functionally already beat?
peak crypt
that's why Flamigo isn't really worth it
polar spear
and the thing abt simple beam is that lati has it and he dont got redirection
and uh well not much other viable simple beamers
Buttttt
peak crypt
do remember that
a) you don't need to get the combo rolling turn 1
and b) sometimes Kommo-o can win a game without Simple Beam
peak crypt
Sinistcha is a huge part of the Simple Beam Kommo-o teams that show up on ladder; Hospitality + redirection means you can pretty safely set up to +4 or +6
peak crypt
Rage Powder / Life Dew / Psych Up / Matcha Gotcha is an option
polar spear
ig
Im also probably guessing I need pokemon to help setup the idea
Maybe I could run screens
Or something to prevent taunt
like psychic terrain
cosmic pasture
Terrain only prevents priority taunt aka tornadus and whimsicott
sharp grove
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
cosmic pasture
Huh
Man you need tr
Good players are not letting peli set tw most of the time
And the rest of the time your team is slow and gets outspeed when your opponent clicks tw
torpid moat
https://pokepast.es/e229b1a612543a2b rmt?
I'd cut volcanion here actually
sharp grove
I'd cut volcanion here actually
for who?
torpid moat
also yeah your Sinistcha needs hospitality for healing arch
cosmic pasture
Man I’m blind
sharp grove
volc swap there's a few options
name some and ill choose
torpid moat
I'd say your main concern is opposing arch
torpid moat
that's traditionally why rain will run lando i over t
because lando i is much stronger vs arch and grasses like rilla/waterpon with sludge bomb
cosmic pasture
Alternatively lando I and add tornadus
sharp grove
so replace LandoT
ultima helped in the making of the team
he said i need intimidate
torpid moat
so if you still want hazards, I would try lando-i + glimmora
sharp grove
so thats why landot is there
torpid moat
nah intim isn't mandatory
cosmic pasture
I mean he’s a better player than me lol
torpid moat
and then incidentally summons tspikes
sharp grove
spikes sr ability for tspikes
torpid moat
from its ability
cosmic pasture
Glimm is meant to be annoying as fuck
torpid moat
glimm is very useful vs like cm raging bolt
sharp grove
so LandoI > LandoT
torpid moat
lando i over lando t, add glimm
sharp grove
and tornadus > volc
sharp grove
oh
torpid moat
torn is unnecessary here
sharp grove
oh
cosmic pasture
Glimm should be sash power gem stealth rocks mortal spin tect
sharp grove
ill send the end product when i finish
cosmic pasture
Max speed rest in spa
sharp grove
also fun fact
lorb doesent hurt u but still gives u the dmg buff when using sheer force
so running lorb is a free 30% no drawback boost on LandoI
cosmic pasture
Wave hits your ally
sharp grove
damn
using sludge bomb
btw do i lead glimm
glimm and peli?
or arch and peli
i hate spore
torpid moat
yeah you just beat that with rage powder/follow me
polar spear
anybody here right now
sharp grove
also guys if i copy paste my team but replace pelipper with kyogre for vgc would it still be good
vgc is like dou so i imagine the team is good
if i replacce peli with kyu and call it a day
cosmic pasture
no
because
in vgc you can use stuff like urshifu flutter mane as well
and b6p4 is fundamentally different to bring 6
sharp grove
what if i wanted to “vgcify” my durrent dou team
cosmic pasture
Just start fresh lmao
marble oxide
https://pokepast.es/f738c2b92895edd4 is my trickroom team good
cosmic pasture
Get rid of spa on indeedee
marble oxide
what do i put the stats in
cosmic pasture
Defense
Psyshock is worthless
There’s a lot more but you should really go find a sample first
prisma swallow
Defense
do TR mons run speed IVs anyway?
they all have 1 IV in speed or smth
is there a reason or just
cuz
prisma swallow
ah
ig that makes sense I just always think going as low as possible is best, granted I play vgc not dou
cosmic pasture
Don’t vgc mons also run particular speed stats
prisma swallow
most TR mons are min IV
well depends on the team some have a TR mode not a hard TR team but cause you wanna underspeed key threats under TR sometimes its worth it
anyway wrong channel for this lul
cosmic pasture
Doubles enough
peak crypt
hey Ultima please stop replying to people’s posts
I appreciate the willingness to help but the advice you’ve been giving and the tone you’ve been using when giving that advice both need some work
peak crypt
https://pokepast.es/f738c2b92895edd4 is my trickroom team good
This team really doesn’t want both Farigiraf and Indeedee—the two overlap a lot, which means when your opponent can beat one, they can pretty easily beat both. You also generally don’t want both Indeedee and Rillaboom, since you’ll end up fighting your own Pokemon when you want one terrain or another
How much have you already played with the team?
peak crypt
What parts of the team have felt the best?
I think this team kind of feels like two teams mushed together, and it’ll be easiest to refine the team if you know which parts you like more
marble oxide
Farigiraf+ rillaboom, raging bolt
i really like using armarouge but only when psychic terrain and trickroom is up
peak crypt
The Farig Rilla Bolt half of the team lends itself a little more to a balance or bulky offense build, where you’re mostly just using Good Pokémon™️ to beat your opponent. This team would use TR more as a tool against things like Tornadus and Chien-Pao than a dedicated strategy
The Indeedee Armarouge part is more of the classic “I’m going to win in six turns or die trying” kind of TR, and usually has stuff like Torkoal, Lilligant, Ursaluna, Hatterene, or Diancie
Are you more interested in playing a dedicated Trick Room build or is that not a big priority?
marble oxide
dedicated trickroom
lucid rain
dedicated trickroom
if you dont quite want dedicated trick room you can try putting tailwind on your team
most of your pokemon are fast enough to go with tailwind as well
cosmic pasture
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
wispy kindle
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
wispy kindle
tried to improve my old team
late spear
storm path
Hello I want to create a team for online doubles and I'm hoping this is the right channel. If this is the wrong place, please let me know and I will post it in the right channel, super sorry.
Anyways, going for a snow team. I don't have priority moves (asides from fake-out), so I'm a bit worried about it. Thoughts?
tired tide
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
brittle spade
https://pokepast.es/1cdd49bf29856d7b
you'll struggle into snow with this, you might want to replace the incineroar with ogerpon-hearthflame, or run tera steel raging bolt
brittle spade
Hello I want to create a team for online doubles and I'm hoping this is the righ...
is this for vgc or doubles ? DOU runs lv100 pokemon
slowking and sneasler are also pretty bad, you would want to replace them
baxcalibur wants sword dance
ogerpon wants follow me, swords dance, focus energy or taunt over either horn leech or tantrum
brittle spade
slowking and sneasler are also pretty bad, you would want to replace them
you could run nasty plot tailwind tornadus and assault vest iron hands over them, youd have a decent 6
or assault vest raging bolt over iron hands
brittle spade
https://pokepast.es/bc8c972712e6d15a
run this :
Maushold-Four @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Follow Me
- Encore
- Protect
and you should replace goodra barrasweda by basculegion-f sinistcha
run will o wisp over cross chop on incineroar
if you really want to keep barra, run choice band
brittle spade
https://pokepast.es/5814ff905724159b
you're kinda weak to landorus for no good reason
brittle spade
you can either run dragapult chien pao gholdengo ogerpon-wellspring tornadus iron hands
or dragapult chien pao incineroar porygon 2 amoonguss ursaluna-bloodmoon, those are the better structures
brittle spade
is goodra ever viable?
you would usually want the other goodra and run iron defense body press heavy slam protect
brittle spade
hydration+ rest makes a good combo
not in doubles, you do not want a pokemon that is too passive
otherwise the opponent just ignores it and double focuses the rest of your team
brittle spade
hydration+ rest makes a good combo
you could try something like curse rest body press if you really want to, but i don't guarantee consistent wins
brittle spade
https://pokepast.es/e25b0bc157401b68
run max hp 177 speed on diancie
and tera steel on pult, you're too weak to snow
im not a fan of the sinistcha here
unless you put hands over incineroar
idk
rain dance kinda doesnt do much too
it won't help you enough against snow
also are the other raters dead ?
storm path
ogerpon wants follow me, swords dance, focus energy or taunt over either horn le...
But since sinistcha has rage powder, doesnt that open up the slot for follow me on ogerpon to something else? I chose stomping tantrum for a ground coverage move
late spear
and you should replace goodra barrasweda by basculegion-f sinistcha
what build for basculegion?
storm path
you could run nasty plot tailwind tornadus and assault vest iron hands over them...
Super appreciate the suggestions here. What makes sneasler and slowking bad just so I understand where my mistakes are happening
peak crypt
They aren’t inherently bad, they just don’t really hold up to the rest of the format
Sneasler does a bunch of damage but does to a light breeze, and Incin / Rilla / Hands do a better job of providing Fake Out support without sacrificing damage
Slowking’s stats are pretty middling across the board, and while it’s bulky, it isn’t bulky enough to take on the rest of the DOU format, and it doesn’t have the damage or utility to compensate
Water/Psychic is also a pretty mediocre typing into the format’s big threats
storm path
Perfect. Thanks so much for the explanation 😁
mild lichen
https://pokepast.es/d45d51bdba94dd46
overall the team works really well from what ive played on ladder, but idk what the best items for hydrapple/iron crown are and teras ive also got no clue on.
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
torpid moat
https://pokepast.es/d45d51bdba94dd46
overall the team works really well from wha...
I don't really recommend using hydrapple or heatran or even sneasler, all of em have flaws or have better options available
that said, av is prob hydrapple's best item, but it really wants regenerator since your team doesn't care about supersweet
speed booster is also the correct crown item, but ground or fighting tera blast should be a lot more reliable than focus blast
you can also cut focus blast for calm mind and run a bulkier set (still booster speed) if you have adequate support for removing crown checks like kingambit, chi yu, incin, ghold
as for alternatives
incineroar, ogerpon-hearthflame, and volcanion are all better options than heatran, especially on psyspam which has some polarized matchups
if you want a pure attacker for trick room, torkoal is also strong
but volcanion is almost always better than heatran in this case because it has a much stronger incineroar matchup
sinistcha is just better in role than hydrapple here, you just can't compete with the amount of support it provides if you care about hospitality healing at all, plus redirection plus trick room etc
you could also run ogerpon-hearthflame over both heatran and hydrapple if you want because it also gets follow me while being offensively threatening
sneasler just kinda sits there, it doesn't really make that great use of its speed, and with psyspam you can't really use its support options of coaching or fake out
if you just want a fighting with a really strong incin/kingambit/ghold matchup, check out okidogi, who gets guard dog for intim while also beating all of the above with drain punch/gunk/knock off, covering popular defensive teras incidentally too
other mons you could consider for this kinda team include blood moon for tr, chi yu for damage + boosting special attackers, psychic seed sd iron hands for tr, landorus just for covering incin/ghold/arch
mild lichen
other mons you could consider for this kinda team include blood moon for tr, chi...
I usually use sneasler essentially as my anti-incin, paired with sword of ruin/helping hand im pretty sure it could pick up ohkos reliably on the most common incin ev speads even through intimidate. Dire claw and double up Rock slide/icicle crash flinches have also saved me more than a couple times. All that being said, i genuinely think that with a bit of better ev placements and/or tera choice sneasler could really shine. I really want to keep it. If you really want to stress getting it off the team please inform me.
As for heatran, yeah i feel like it's a good call to remove it since i'm basically forced to tera with it considering its current typing has anti-defensive synergy with iron crown (especially against ground) and is why i had to use supersweet syrup focus blasts on iron crown as a compromise. That being said volcanion definitely seems like a better call. I just opens up so many new avenues in terms of what my gameplan is, not to mention basically freeing up my hydrapple slot since i can now freely use teras on iron crown.
speaking of hydrapple i'm likely going to replace it with sinistcha/landorus but both have their upsides and the opportunity cost of leaving one behind varies a lot against different matchups. This one is your call because im not sure
torpid moat
-1 252+ Atk Sword of Ruin Sneasler Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Incineroar: 374-444 (94.9 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
better than I expected, though you will need both terrain and pao to not get put in a bad spot by fake out
mild lichen
yeah, true
torpid moat
if you do keep sneasler, I still recommend throat chop over rock slide though
it's really important for psyspam to be able to hit ghold well
but you should also try okidogi just to see it in action
mild lichen
alr i'll keep that in mind
so far here's how the team's lookin: https://pokepast.es/9ac0d75c1fcac111
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
mild lichen
oop mb
torpid moat
oh heavy slam volc is super outdated
that's for flutter only
you can do sludge bomb for waterpon
you would only really want sinistcha if you also ran bulkier options like okidogi + cm crown
right now only volcanion really appreciates the healing
you can try follow me firepon + blood moon or lando over volc + sinistcha next
mild lichen
i tried okidogi and instantly got clapped by tailwind lmao
cm crown is a shout tho i'll run that
torpid moat
you can only run cm crown if you have strong ghold/arch/incin checks like lando, just be careful
and yeah dogi runs bulky av, it's meant to pair with a semiroom package
because sinistcha also learns tr
mild lichen
i find myself using trick room purely to cancel out other trick rooms more often than not ive realised. It might just be a playstyle thing but i really do prefer sneasler on this team
mild lichen
you can only run cm crown if you have strong ghold/arch/incin checks like lando,...
noted
torpid moat
if that's the case then you likely prefer firepon or lando or both, maybe even torn, no sinistcha
mild lichen
i find myself using trick room purely to cancel out other trick rooms more often...
alr what ive found out is that unburden 184 speed sneasler allows me outspeed torn and ogerpon in tailwind, and also allows me to tank bleakwind storm, an ursaluna-bloodmoon ep, tera normal blood moon, rbolt draco and tclap (all with +1 spD of course)
honestly really solid all in all
72 spD btw
mild lichen
if that's the case then you likely prefer firepon or lando or both, maybe even t...
alr
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
worn aurora
Im pretty new to team building but here is my trick room team ^^ so please say if something is to be changed !
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
rose juniper
hey
honestly it isn't looking to bad and I think you got the concept of it down but there are a few improvements you could make
mainly optimizing/changing some sets and consider swapping out 1 or 2 mons aldo if you like the mons in question (hands and gambit) they can ofcourse stay
in terms of some set improvements I would mainly start looking at diancie
and in general the tera types you have given your pokemon
ill start with the tera types
you prob wanna change every tera type besides the gambit and the ursaluna
for the indeedeee and the hatterene you went with an offensive tera type in psychic but both would rather have a defensive tera
especially the indeedee
whos job is to ensure TR going up, not to deal damage and especially since your indeedee doesn't carry any damaging moves, there is no reason to go with psychic
instead I would recommend fairy as the tera type, in general a good defensive typing and it resists dark types. Otherwise steel is another valid option
Hatterene is alright really strong under psy terrain and doesn't need the damage boost and would generally speaking much rather also have a defensive typing, often when your opponent is somewhat competent at playing vs TR (low ladder rarely is but eventually you will start running into people that know what to do vs your team) you need to set up TR a 2nd or a 3rd time and often times a defensive tera can do wonder to ensure that, water is my favourite tera type for hatterene
resists steal types (mainly good for ghold) and is overall one of the better defensive typings, fire is also fine but then you are weak to lando
normally landorus carries sludge bomb and earth power/sandsear storm and as a fairy type with tera type fire you will always be weak to one of those 2 so I would go with water personally
as for diancie, imo diancies best tera type is grass
resists ground which is in the current meta a very common thing to encounter thanks to landorus-I who will mainly counter diancie but its also nice to ignore something like spore, it won't occur often but when you face an amoonguss with TR it can be a difficult match up because it often times is slower then most of your team and can start clicking spore left and right
and tera grass on diancie is a counter to that
but other teras that resists ground are also fine
and on a side note since this is also the case with hands
when you give a defensive tera you generally wanna make sure the given tera doesn't share any weaknesses with the original type, both hands and diancie are normally weak to ground but when you tera them they still are and thats something to avoid.
hands could enjoy something like a water tera
ursa and gambit are generally speaking fine with running offensive teras so the current ones are fine
in terms of items
I don't know at which elo tier you play but the higher up you get the more rillabooms you will find and then less useful terrain extender becomes on indeedee, thats something you have to decide for your own if its gonna be worth it to keep it but if you end up replacing it you could consider sash, sitrus, safety goggles or eject button
diancie rather has something like weakness policy or hardstone over aguav
and you could consider either assault vest or psychic seed on hands instead but do what you like best
last thing I think is really worth mentioning is the diancie set
you generally are better off running something like 248hp/252 attack/ 8 def with a brave nature
while replacing helping hand with body press
which paires nicely with diamond strom
@worn aurora
whole horizon
im pretty new in terms of double battles and i need a little bit of advice in terms of team building.
https://pokepast.es/4e130bc9bb49d3e2
This is my TT team which i made and somehow it feels pretty reliable. I always start with farigiraf (which task is to trick into enemy set up and disrupt it and set up trick rooms) and incineroar (fake out into parting shoot in TT pokemon). I wonder if i should use protect or sword dance on my ursaluna because those two are pretty good options and sword dance ursaluna with a amoonguss support its pretty nice. I feel that i have somewhat good core but i have this weird feeling that something could be better.
I'm open to suggestion and replacements. I'll prefer not to use any legendary or mythical pokemons 🙌
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
rose juniper
im pretty new in terms of double battles and i need a little bit of advice in te...
hey, just to clearify, what does TT mean?
whole horizon
i made a mistake mb
rose juniper
nws
eitherway there is def stuff to improve here
mainly the sets
you could consider swaping out incineroar here since it doesn't really have a place on TR imo and you also already got torkoal
but in terms of the sets ill start with fargiraf
the one thing I can't stress enough is let your pokemon just do what they are supposed to do
don't try to fill in multiple roles if they aren't supposed to do that, farigiraf has only 2 things it needs to do, get up trickroom and deny priority
the trick scarf thing is just not good, not only is it not that bad for your opponent but it also means you can't actually set up TR with it off rip and you first have to waste a turn with trick
so I highly recomend to swap trick out for either protect or helping hand
and instead for its item run sitrus, safety goggles or throat spray
whole horizon
yeah ur right i agree with that, i noticed that i struggle a lot then opponent isnt setting up
and Farigiraf is becoming sitting duck
in terms of incineroar im using him mainly for fake out parting shoot combo
hes like glue holding those semi random pieces
rose juniper
I see, I think you can get more out of the incin slot though but if you do wanna keep it I would recomend removing boots
since you got a hatterene to deny stealth rocks from going up
eitherway continuing on
torkoal looks absolutely fine to me
same with amoong, but maybe make it 0 speed IVs as well
Ursa doesn't really need drain punch, fighting hits mostly the same things as ground so you should generally speaking be clicking headlong anyways
instead consider protect or throat chop
but id go with protect
whole horizon
how about a sword dance on it?
rose juniper
its fine imo, it can have its uses
you won't be clicking it often
but ursa doesn't really need any more offensive moves besides its 2 stabs
so there is room for it
as for the incin slot, we already touched a bit upon it but I would consider swapping it for indeedee-f since that helps with not only getting TR up but also with allowing hatterene to click expending force which is really strong
but if you decide to keep it I would advise to take a look at its item
and lastly as for the hatterene itself
hatterene doesn't need an offensive tera
and rather uses a defensive tera, water is my favorite but steel is also fine
in terms of its EVs, it rather just has 248HP/252+ Spatk/8def or spdef
in trickroom you wanna make the most out of the limited turns that it gives you and you can't really afford to waste a turn by clicking calm mind
and you also really want some more coverage on hat
I would just run double stab
so 1 fairy move and 1 psychic move
and have tect over calm mind
and you can use something like a twisted spoon as its item to help on the offensive side of things
whole horizon
in terms of hatterene i really like a setup with a calm mind, as you can see its max def and hp which make it immovable
since calm mind and trick room arent dmg moves i decided to go for dazzling gleam for spread dmg and draining kiss for some kind of recovery
rose juniper
I understand but
and I don't wanna be rude (sorry if it comes across that way)
thats just a bad set
it doesn't do the damage it should and it also won't tank the damage you want it to
and 2 fairy moves are not needed
in the end use what you like best don't get me wrong
but I would for sure advise to run what I recommended
whole horizon
i fully understand that, like i said before im openning for a suggestions
rose juniper
👍
whole horizon
okay since ursaluna and torkoal are threatening core
should i use something more as a form of dps
whole horizon
i should say damage per turn lmao
torpid moat
gonna second that hatt really sucks as anything besides immediate damage
it's extremely frail, and you won't be able to calm mind effectively without dying while also trying to set trick room
if you want a tr mon that "scales up", that's diancie with diamond storm + body press
rose juniper
yeah
whole horizon
is pivoting important in trick rooms teams? if yes, then i should get myself some kind of keeping momentum besides parting shoot?
rose juniper
I wouldn't say so
its mainly important to just get 2 guys in that can deal a lot of damage
and just start blasting away till the TR ends and then have consistent TR setter(s) to get it back up again and repeat
thats basically it for TR id say
torpid moat
you can just hard switch quite safely under tr when you need to position
usually your opponent will be playing defensively and won't be threatening your stuff much
in fact, pivoting is often worse than hard switches because your opp is very likely to protect or fake out your pivot turn
whole horizon
thats very good point
okay then, imma change up my team a bit based on ur reccomendations
and check it in practice
thanks for ur time, i really appreciate that
rose juniper
Ofcourse, happy to help
wide dragon
https://pokepast.es/b6f11bdeb42a09c9
i really like this lando incin ting lu core, how can I make this team more reliable into blizzard spam, archaludon and maybe kingambit?
mostly looking for mon reccomendations
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
torpid moat
https://pokepast.es/b6f11bdeb42a09c9
i really like this lando incin ting lu cor...
there's no point in running cm u turn sr lando, you just won't get opportunities for worthwhile setup, I'd just run phys tantrum + knock or protect, or switch to glimmora who has better hazard setup and does better vs gambit and snow
you definitely can't afford ghold here, that's also another mon making lando and gambit/pao matchups super difficult
wide dragon
there's no point in running cm u turn sr lando, you just won't get opportunities...
yea cm lando was for fun lol, and ghold was in my idk what to put slot it really isnt a member of the team, ill try glimm i just dont like that it doesnt have the same staying power as lando
torpid moat
if you already have double snarl, knock incin is more useful for removing boots/sitrus
wide dragon
i never see boots
wide dragon
i do like snarl incin more than snarl bolt
idk where i found this incin set but snarl is underrated istg
torpid moat
so your issue is if you overload on snarl/intim effects
you instalose to gambit ofc, but also have issues with stuff like cloak cm bolt
who if supported by like a sinistcha can just completely ignore your stuff until it starts ohkoing
so you still want to have proactive stuff, also whirlwind ting lu so you have counterplay
torpid moat
yeah it is, I'd say over snarl
wide dragon
really
i was using snarl to force switches
while doing chip
and just protect other mons it works quite well
torpid moat
whirl has worse distribution, you need that effect on the team in some form so it may as well be on ting lu
I'm surprised you haven't seen something like a well-positioned diancie that tera'd, racked up def boosts, then started body pressing with sinistcha support?
or archaludon doing the same thing
wide dragon
yea archaludon
torpid moat
yeah arch is unwinnable matchup without whirl
wide dragon
ig if i already have snarl on incin i can afford to lose it
torpid moat
and even with whirl you still want a proper answer like calm mind bolt paired with it
torpid moat
probably just scarf lando i
wide dragon
i could remove rb
torpid moat
scarf basc-f for last respects endgame
that's what I was thinking of
it's the usual endgame wincon for this kind of team
wide dragon
thats so nutty but wont i still get rolled by blizzard
might replace rb for basc, not a bad idea
need new prio then cuz i lose clap
wide dragon
should i change snarl on rb to something else?
torpid moat
ah my bad, mine was more disruption based: https://pokepast.es/69485bd32a90ae27
arch and entei are ideas though
wide dragon
entei or arch over rb?
torpid moat
arch for you
wide dragon
or for 6th slot
torpid moat
still basc f
wide dragon
does bulky glimm have any merit?
torpid moat
it's kind of an iffy mon
I'm partial to scarf glimm myself
but without any speed control, sash max spe spa is probably most reliable
glimm set being power gem/earth power/sr/spiky shield
wide dragon
ok ill test this new variation out
torpid moat
oh gimme a paste so I can check sets
wide dragon
torpid moat
ah, I actually forgot about the sr arch set
that's probably tighter than running glimm
torpid moat
lemme just fix it up for you
wide dragon
interesting
ill give it a shot and lyk
yea cuz w teams like this i end up kinda cycling the same core of 4 before they all die, having basc at the end is a good idea
torpid moat
entei is also another wincon that is important to squeeze in
torpid moat
so once mons get worn down by hazards/your grind
they get put into range of espeed, especially tera normal
it's another stopgap so you don't get beaten by like sd firepon lategame
a lot of the setup stuff that can truly threaten you can be beaten by espeed if chipped enough
wide dragon
a lot of the setup stuff that can truly threaten you can be beaten by espeed if ...
zapdos g smokes the entire team
peak crypt
No team can have a good matchup into everything, and Zap-G is relatively rare
wide dragon
i mean fair enough its just an instalose if the other player is competent
pale bison
gapdos is like, ok into this ig but it really should only get one ko at most and u can just trade. also gapdos doesnt actually ohko archa and ting with cc unles its boosted. (also run +spdef archaludon instead of modest assuming u havent caught that yet)
torpid glacier
This is the first team I made, purely based off just what's good
Without any care for synergy https://pokepast.es/697c43b132872ffb
Need some input, thanks for helping :D
peak crypt
Ignoring synergy does mean a couple things here are out of place
Archaludon and Dragonite both lose a lot of their effectiveness without specific partners—Arch really thrives on rain teams built around it, and Dragonite struggles with damage a bit without Chien-Pao to back it up
torpid glacier
I'd rather keep Archaludon on my team
So what would you suggest I do to change it up/
Sub Pelipper for dragonite?
peak crypt
That would be a pretty reasonable start, yeah
torpid glacier
What other changes would you recommend
torpid moat
waterpon over amoong then if you're going for rain
wisp over flare blitz incin
and you get to use sandsear lando
torpid glacier
I see, I'll make those changed then and try them out thanks for the advice <3
How's this?
peak crypt
Bring back Tornadus! free him!!
one of the things that makes Ogerpon good is Follow Me, and you’ve left that out
Spikes on the other hand isn’t really worth it in DOU ever
torpid moat
the waterpon set is cudgel/grass move/follow me/spiky shield
lando can run sandsear now
cosmic pasture
If I’m allowed to have a shot at giving advice
You’re playing pretty well
Keep in mind that for arch you want to rack up as many electro shot boosts as possible, as the spa will be more useful in the long run than 50% bp on incin for instance
Against arch rain mirrors you do want to position landorus more aggressively to threaten the archaludon for instance bringing it in for pelipper t2 to be immune to electro shot
And threaten a functional ko with earth power next turn
You might benefit from a different Tera type on lando in particular to either water, poison or steel depending on what you like
torpid glacier
Keep in mind that for arch you want to rack up as many electro shot boosts as po...
Oh is that what I'm supposed to do?
I usually just click on super effect moves
cosmic pasture
I noticed you clicked moves like dragon pulse and body press early game when electro shot would do just as much if not more damage, for instance into cresselia
peak crypt
Dragon Pulse is base 85 now
But Electro Shot will continue to boost your SpA every time you use it
So unless you can confirm a KO on something with a different move, it’s usually best to just click Electro Shot until you have a boost or two
cosmic pasture
If you think about it electro shot is basically stab with the 1.5 spa boost, the difference being that the spa boost is more useful more of the time
torpid glacier
thank makes sense
torpid glacier
I do have a doubt thought
When I try to start with pelipper and archaldon, I'm not able to set up tailwind without it fainting because peilipper is slow and moves last, but I also need the rain, any tips for that?
torpid moat
peli isn't a reliable tailwind setter, torn is
arch lead can be risky because of that so you have to be aware of when you're positioning properly
torn is your reliable twind setter
and you don't necessarily need tailwind immediately, sometimes it's better to switch peli out turn 1, or switch it in to activate electro shot when you need it
torpid glacier
Like in this match?
I opened with tornadus and inceroar, using tail wind and fakeout to make sure tornadus stays alive
opponent pelipper set rain, then my archaludon came in in the next turn with parting shot
torpid moat
yeah that's a classic example of safely positioning arch
if arch is not threatened, it doesn't actually need tailwind
torpid glacier
I see, I thought tailwind would be beneficial for me to use moves like taunt or parting shot
torpid moat
on who? torn already has prankster for that
torpid glacier
Somehow I forgot that prankster works for taunt as well
I just realized pranskter works for all status moves lol
torpid moat
btw it's still very reasonable to click tailwind turn 1
in that game, tailwind is helpful to you
but not for that reason
it's so you can do things like dragon pulse the Pikachu before it moves
torpid glacier
Another reason I usually try to setup tailwind first turn is because I don't want my opponents to use tailwind and get an advantage first turn
torpid moat
just make sure you're aware, tailwind doesn't do damage
if your opponent has no way to kill what you have out, then whoever moves first is irrelevant
that's just an important concept for positioning
torpid glacier
Yeah I'll remember that. Somtimes I misclick tailwind for something else
torpid moat
the advantage tailwind gives you is moving first to threaten kills or avoid getting killed in turn
torpid glacier
Are battles pacing determined by who you start with?
torpid moat
they're moreso determined by the current position
and certain speed control effects like trick room tailwind etc
so leads are important, but not as much as you'd think
stronger players will adapt to any lead position
torpid glacier
I see, I guess then I'll need to focus on positioning a bit more.
torpid moat
there are usually ways to safely switch to a better position, during which whoever had the better position tries to get some incremental advantage like free damage or setting something up
torpid glacier
the more I play these games the more I understand Wolfey's obsession with inceneroar lol
really useful for setting up and switching
torpid moat
it's not as good as it used to be but yes it's still an excellent pivot
tardy lantern
I made this team myself and I feel really good about it but I think there are things I can fix, and am open to criticism. https://pokepast.es/d78034ba32ff5916
halcyon pantherBOT
New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
tardy lantern
I also dont know if I should keep wide lens for poltergeist or use blunder policy if it misses
torpid moat
you have blunder policy on your scovillain with only 100% accurate moves?
torpid moat
I made this team myself and I feel really good about it but I think there are th...
in general though this is really really gimmicky, you'll have a lot of trouble with common mons like incineroar and diancie, and most rain teams
tardy lantern
you have blunder policy on your scovillain with only 100% accurate moves?
I do?
Hang on
Whoops
I do
torpid moat
I don't recommend using scovillain at all regardless though
there are much more serious issues, but yeah those are some objective errors
torpid moat
if you want to build a phys oriented team, howl booster speed gouging fire is much more reliable
tardy lantern
I was thinking I should have more than one support because of how frail whimsicott is
torpid moat
so howl boosts attack much like spicy extract does, but it does it for both mons, through protect, and a much better standalone mon
tardy lantern
Oh really
torpid moat
it's +1 though
tardy lantern
Honestly the only time I've used howl was during my gen 3 playthrough against some poochyenas
And that was them
torpid moat
so you want to pair howl with intimidate immune effects like inner focus dragonite
or clear amulets
so you aren't as weak to incineroar
tardy lantern
Ok
What about the ceruledge item tho
My poltergeist can still miss so blunder policy would be good but it would mean missing more
torpid moat
ceruledge isn't really worth using compared to ogerpon-hearthflame, who has more power and a better speed tier
but I will say that blunder is definitely not correct
neither is wide lens though
tardy lantern
The main reason I'm using ceruledge is cause it's my favorite pokemon and stab 90 BP healing
torpid moat
if you forced me to run that ceruledge I would go for focus sash because it's so frail while not also being fast
or clear amulet to deter intimidate
tardy lantern
Sounds good
torpid moat
hearthflame gets horn leech btw
and with the mask boost it's about the same damage
but you do you
tardy lantern
hearthflame gets horn leech btw
I used the water one on a rain team with it and horn leech
torpid moat
you definitely want protect on it though
tardy lantern
Got it
tardy lantern
SD?
torpid moat
swords dance
tardy lantern
Ah
Also the main reason I have flash fire is for when I Tera grass I am immune to fire
torpid moat
I guess technically you can cut the sd for poltergeist if you want more damage
so I was aware of that interaction, and it's cute, but ceruledge isn't a particularly tanky mon
and tera grass doesn't actually save it like it would for something like heatran defensively
I bet you still take like 60 from lando ep even as grass tera
if you're going for an all out sd offensive set, the speed would be more important to you
otherwise again you would be better off with firepon
tardy lantern
Alright
I think I'm gonna make a team with those revisions and and some other versions and do some games to see how I feel about each one
torpid moat
ok so I still didn't address the root issues I mentioned earlier
tardy lantern
I'm listening
torpid moat
none of the things I mention actually fix your diancie matchup
and while clear amulet helps a little vs incin, the current mons are still way too weak to it
tardy lantern
I actually haven't matched into a diance once yet but that's not saying I wont
torpid moat
I will leave this team here as an example of the howl gouging comp
even this one still has trouble with diancie but tspikes + rilla + ting lu whirlwind can help address it
torpid moat
but this one is much stronger vs incineroar
torpid moat
so diancie clicks trick room, then diamond storm
diamond storm has a 50% to boost def by 2
and hits both enemies
tardy lantern
Trick room is pretty bad for me
torpid moat
once it racks up enough def boosts, it clicks body press to kill if diamond storm isn't enough
tardy lantern
At least with the current team I've been running
torpid moat
and diancie is often going to be very well supported by fake out and redirection like from incin/hands or indeedee/sinistcha
it's pretty much an instant loss for your original team
tardy lantern
With indeedee does it's psychic surge do anything for its fake out?
torpid moat
because you have no way to damage it and it 2hkos all your stuff
psychic surge blocks fake out, which is actually helpful for the trick room team
indeedee itself doesn't use fake out, it uses redirection like follow me
torpid moat
indeedee-f only
indeedee-f is better support because of follow me and better bulk, the only real thing it loses is expanding force
torpid moat
nasty plot gholdengo is one
it depends what you mean by team though
if you're want a "setup midspeed ghost" I'd say ghold is better than ceruledge in almost every way
but it won't benefit from physical boosts
so it wouldn't slot into your team, but it might fit into one with a similar philosophy
tardy lantern
Mmkay
torpid moat
like with chi-yu and ghold and fake tears whimsicott
like what you were trying to do with scovillain, but specially oriented instead
ghold is one of the most reliable diancie checks out there
but it needs additional support
tardy lantern
Whimsicott or smth else
torpid moat
if you just want a generically strong offensive diancie answer, that's landorus-i who can oneshot it
ghold needs both speed control and something to supplement its bulk for actually setting up
whims is speed control with prankster tailwind
shoring it up defensively can come from follow me users, or fake out, or intimidate, or healing from sinistcha/rilla, or aurora veil
tardy lantern
What does shoring it up mean?
torpid moat
basically something that helps it not die
because it's taking turns off to nasty plot
tardy lantern
Like focus sash?
tardy lantern
Defensive ev or nature?
torpid moat
but it needs partners to give it free turns or help keep it alive
yeah np ghold runs a lot of bulk evs
tardy lantern
More physically or specially
tardy lantern
Ah
torpid moat
hp is more efficient
like for almost every mon
but also there's not much point in you building what I'm describing from scratch
I can just find you an example
tardy lantern
Yea probably not
tardy lantern
I can just find you an example
That would be great
torpid moat
you can also type /analysis gholdengo (on pokemon showdown) and check the doubles tab
tardy lantern
So I could just do it in my friends chat
torpid moat
sure, though only you will see it
tardy lantern
K
torpid moat
and it's more convenient in rooms where the text is bigger
type /help on ps too for a commands list
and /intro
here's a ghold team that leans much more defensively: https://pokepast.es/f3355a94374b7994
ghold is definitely the centerpiece here though as a wincon
tardy lantern
So losing it is almost losing the game