#Smogon Doubles Rates

1 messages · Page 15 of 1

brittle spade
icy mist
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Yo, the explanation for the team is in the image

IMG_5647.png
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There’s definitely some things missing, ik the trick room setup is kinda clunky and there’s some missing support for it, as well as me simply not being familiar with the meta at all so I’m not very sure what I need to counter

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Ik Blood Moon Ursaluna is kinda annoying

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Despite that I feel the team is pretty balanced and Crabominable’s Ice Hammer combo’s with trick room very, very well

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I also didn’t play the dlc so I know very little about the new mons except that they’re all their own flavor of game breaking bs

icy mist
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20-4

peak crypt
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I think whoever gave you this task should be thrown off a bridge because you should really not be using Crabominable

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with that said

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Raging Fury and Outrage both choose their targets at random; you’ll likely find that Heat Crash and Dragon Claw serve you much better

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You can probably make the Farigiraf an Indeedee-F and get essentially the same benefits while freeing up a move slot on Hatterene for Protect

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(and drop Healing Wish for Trick Room; this kind of team really appreciates having multiple setters)

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Lilligant-H isn’t really bulky enough to pull off any sort of setup set; it’s usually seen clicking After You next to Torkoal for turbo speed Eruptions

torpid moat
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also sleep powder

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lilli without sleep powder is a massive crime

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and if you run necrozma instead of hatt your after your trick room becomes more powerful

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gouging fire should have clear amulet btw

icy mist
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All of that is super valid, tysm for the advice, I will say I think Crabominable is kinda a clutch god, he’s been surprisingly useful, I agree that he’s not optimal though, and Gouging Fire & H-Lilligant are two pokemon I have literally never seen been used before so I kinda just guessed what they were supposed to do, I definitely will fix those when I get back on

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This was my last variation of the team before hopping off and some of the issues I had already fixed

IMG_5648.png
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My only issue with replacing farigiraf with indeedee is how valuable having roar was

torpid moat
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you'll understand when you see how valuable follow me is

inland parcel
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I started using archaludon over Raichu and it’s way better

icy mist
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I’ve lost to all but 3 of the weather teams I’ve ran into with this team bruh

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70% of them because I will always lose the torkoal speed tie

torpid moat
verbal warren
twilit wedge
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

twilit wedge
dire flint
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there's no reason to have both amoonguss and sinistcha

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they largely fill the same role and mostly have the same weaknesses

twilit wedge
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true, i use sinistcha mainly for healing and focus more on sleeps/redirection with amoonguss

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i really like amoonguss and am somewhat hard-set on keeping it on my team for that bias, and sinistcha has also been lots of fun to play with

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i have been thinking of switching out landorus for something else like chein-pao but i dont know if that is a super good idea

steel bough
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https://pokepast.es/0d2833c5ccc3a220 Pretty new to showdown in general, just trying to make a team that actually stands a chance. Most likely my ev's are trash but I just kinda threw it together. Any advice is appreciated

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My main lead is incin/cp

brittle spade
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at least in the beginning

steel bough
brittle spade
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you're giving ladder players too much credit

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besides these sets are made to live certain attacks or kill certain mons

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not running them is actively detrimental to you

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like for your amoonguss

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the sample sets is able to live ice spinner, this one can't

steel bough
brittle spade
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you go on showdown in teambuilder, you select a pokemon, click on import/export and there should be an option at the bottom to select sample sets

steel bough
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Amoonguss @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 244 HP / 128 Def / 136 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Spore
  • Rage Powder
  • Pollen Puff
  • Protect
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so this is the one i want

brittle spade
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why are you tera ground

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i have this for the sample Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 244 HP / 208 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 28 Spe

  • Spore
  • Rage Powder
  • Pollen Puff
  • Clear Smog
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idk how you got your spread

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oh you clicked showdown usage

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no thats just something generated from usage on ladder, use the other one if possible

steel bough
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ohh

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ill try that

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should i do that on all my mons

brittle spade
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yeah, at first at least

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try them and if they don't fit your needs change them

steel bough
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as for my mons

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does the team look/ play well together

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or should i switch pokemon

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im fairly low on ladder like at 1300 atm but ive only lost twice

brittle spade
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if you're a decent player with a decent team you can climb up to 1550 with an 80% winrate, then you face people who start to know what they are doing

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the 6 you're using are ok

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you should do well

steel bough
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i just dont like that i cant make use of raging bolts ability

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hes just so good to not use

brittle spade
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so what, stats are good enough and it has decent synergy with the rest of your team

steel bough
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should i run AV or calm mind set

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what would suit my team best

brittle spade
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av

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you're not running tailwind or trick room so electroweb is really appreciated

steel bough
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wait the av set didnt have webs

brittle spade
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just take out snarl or thunderbolt then

steel bough
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ill prob take t bolt out

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i like snarl

brittle spade
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ladder really likes bad hatterene + indeedee so itll work out well for you

steel bough
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i seem to have trouble against ting lu

brittle spade
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you shouldn't, you're running ogerpon chien pao + intimidate

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you can always spore it

steel bough
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i think im letting the wrong pokemon die too fast

peak crypt
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identifying what Pokémon you need in a given situation is a skill that can only really be developed by practice

brittle spade
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dnite is also good into ting lu

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yeah, what arcticblast says is correct

peak crypt
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as you play with the team more, you’ll get a better feel of what your Pokémon are capable of

steel bough
peak crypt
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That Pokémon is really good yeah

steel bough
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most of my wins have been rather quick, he just kills everything by like turn 10-12

tough sable
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tough sable
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Wrong area

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I think

peak crypt
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I mean if this is a DOU team then this is the right place

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I cannot in good faith tell you to keep the Mightyena though

brittle spade
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lmao keep the mightyhyena or whatever its called

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run this though

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Mightyena @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 188 SpD / 64 Spe
Jolly Nature

  • Super Fang
  • Foul Play
  • Snarl
  • Sucker Punch
torpid moat
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as mons themselves, they're actually worse than mightyena, you use then purely for setting sun/rain

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so having two of them means you added 2 really bad mons that also conflict with each other and make your team worse

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I guarantee you you'd be better off with just torkoal + walking wake + firepon or just pelipper + arch + waterpon

icy mist
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

icy mist
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I need a sixth pokemon and idk what to put

peak crypt
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make the Farigiraf an Indeedee and toss a Diancie in the back and you've got a team

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(or make the Hatt an Ursaluna and still put a Diancie in the back. Hatterene is a lot worse than people think it is)

icy mist
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The team originally was a gimmick team where I built it from two random pokemon and those mons were Crabominable and Gouging Fire, so I built the team around that, but I decided I actually really like the team but the two mons weren’t optimal

icy mist
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Diancie gets rolled by archaludon and without roar I have no way to get rid of the stat boosts

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He also is immune to clear smog

peak crypt
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Tera Fire Eruption in sun makes the Archaludon go away

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a team like this is inherently hyper offense

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your goal is not to have answers to your opponent, it is to make your opponent answer you

icy mist
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I suppose, but I feel like that’s super risky. My team currently can play hyper offense but if it goes south it can respond well to threats. I worry that if my only answer to archaludon is not only tera but also not get hit by anything, which is really conditional for a mon that can reliably set up at any point in the game

peak crypt
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full Trick Room is risky

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there is no safe full Trick Room team

icy mist
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Most games trick room goes down and I get lilligant in the after you slow mons and smoothly transition to faster mons

peak crypt
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you have a limited amount of time to do a lot of damage and you need to make the most of that time

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and usually that means "make your opponent's Pokemon explode"

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if you want to play a more balanced Trick Room team, you're probably dropping almost all of these Pokemon, if not all of them, and running something more in the vein of Iron Hands / Sinistcha that can still play just fine without TR

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but if you want to commit to Lillikoal you kind of force yourself down the hyper aggressive route; there's so much riding on limited-time field effects that you don't have a ton of choice in the matter

icy mist
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I feel like most of the time Lilligant and Torkoal never see eachother

peak crypt
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then you are objectively playing the team incorrectly

icy mist
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Torkoal is kinda supposed to die before I transition into my sun mons

peak crypt
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like I know that's a little blunt, but Lilligant's entire niche in DOU is supporting specifically Torkoal, and its ability to help out the other members of the team is just a bonus

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there's a reason you never see a Lilligant without a Torkoal

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there are successful Trick Room teams that support a less aggressive, more "cross-compatible" playstyle that doesn't specifically require TR to be up to win. they tend to skip Pokemon like Torkoal and Hatterene because those Pokemon benefit most from playing very aggressive

icy mist
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Usually the order of events was

Hatterene & Farigiraf start
Psychic Terrain & TR set up
Sweep with expanding force & hh
If not then Hatterene died and Torkoal comes in to spam hh eruption
Farigiraf dies & GF comes in
GF protects while Trick Room goes down and usually torkoal dies around this point
Lilligant comes in and does some sleep powder shit because GF id the perceived threat
GF dies & crab comes in
Spam after you

torpid moat
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but there's so many points of failure there

icy mist
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I’m definitely gonna try what you’re saying, so don’t see it as me knocking what you’re saying because you’re probably right, I’m just expressing my concerns

peak crypt
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I also really cannot stress enough that manually setting Psychic Terrain is never what you want to be doing

torpid moat
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and teams built to be used in sequence are extremely inflexible

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also that

peak crypt
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you could just run Indeedee

torpid moat
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why not just use indeedee to begin with

icy mist
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Roar

peak crypt
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you are entirely too paranoid about setup

torpid moat
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indeedee instead of farig

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oh I see

icy mist
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Every loss I’ve had without farigiraf was because of no roar

torpid moat
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yeah that's not a thing

peak crypt
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The most successful teams that run Hatterene play so aggressively that setup Pokemon just don't get to set up

icy mist
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Fair

peak crypt
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I can't sit there and click Electro Shot three times if I'm taking almost half my health from Helping Hand Expanding Force

icy mist
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Do ppl run maushold beat up archaludon in higher latters

peak crypt
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not a ton

torpid moat
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no

peak crypt
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and Indeedee will do a great job at answering that through Follow Me

torpid moat
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but also indeedee still beats that

icy mist
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Good point

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Imma def try it when I get off work

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Ty for explaining it to me, last time I did a team rate a long time ago they just told me what to do and didn’t answer any questions

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That was a long time ago though so there’s no grudge or anything I don’t even remember who I was talking to

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For Diancie do I just run the suggested TR sweeper team

peak crypt
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yeah, that set works fine

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I'd recommend you give this a shot

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If you're really worried about hazards, you can run Spin on Torkoal over Earth Power, but this team can kind of just play through them

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(and you have a Hatterene)

icy mist
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Alr

icy mist
peak crypt
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Priority number 1 against that Sun team should have been setting Trick Room

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Like you hard lead Indeedee Hatt, click Follow Me and TR, and go from there

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And this game was even still winnable if you had clicked Trick Room on the turn Wake fainted, or if you had sent in Lilligant instead of Diancie

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If you were worried about a Torkoal switch, Follow Me + Expanding Force also probably worked, and then you could use Lilligant to sweep with After You or Diancie to stabilize

icy mist
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Honestly, if Ursaluna was beatable I would have won

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I just got better

wild zodiac
wild zodiac
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anyone?

wild zodiac
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ok maybe this team is just good

Screenshot_2024-11-07_at_2.38.13_PM.png
peak crypt
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yeah this is a pretty stock Indeedee Lillikoal kind of team

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there's not much you can do that doesn't just change the core

brittle spade
desert sparrow
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Rate my trick room team fairly

IMG_2484.png
peak crypt
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the first piece of criticism I can provide is this screenshot is tiny

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and just linking us the pokepaste would have been easier

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the second piece of criticism I can provide is four of your Pokemon are unviable in the DOU format and three of them are actively detrimental to have on your team - Eelektross, Avalugg, and Pincurchin are simply incapable of winning games against top teams

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Goodra-H kind of sucks but you could do worse

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but at least P2 and Farigiraf are some of the best Trick Room setters available, so you're not totally dead in the water

desert sparrow
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Yeah I want a good trick room ice type

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And maybe a slow electric and or poison to round out

peak crypt
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"good" is stretching it but the Pokemon you're looking for is Glastrier

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and drop the Eel and Pincurchin for Iron Hands and Ursaluna

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(either one honestly)

queen knot
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Erm... One question does amarouge indeedee is still a thing?

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I built a team here that isnt losing for like 15 matches straight

peak crypt
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it is still a thing, yes

balmy vale
peak crypt
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no

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in fact I'm really not sure how you managed to build a team that loses 1v6 to Incineroar, but you sure pulled it off

balmy vale
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ill report back once i beat incineroar

peak crypt
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if you want a more serious response to the team I can provide it

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but it's not going to be much nicer

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there's not really anything redeeming going on here

balmy vale
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yeah

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the team has its vices

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i mean its obviously very unserious

icy mist
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Yo I’ve missed literally every sleep powder I’ve ever used, what should I swap it out for

peak crypt
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real talk I do not think you drop Sleep Powder

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I tried playing some Protect Lilligant and every single game I wished I had sleep

icy mist
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I wish I had sleep every game with sleep powder

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The Showdown CIA is silencing my skill and I have 0% accuracy guaranteed on my first use of a luck move

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So I need a new move

brittle spade
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yeah sadly sleep power is too good on lilligant

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it really flips some matchups on their head

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its even better than encore

balmy vale
balmy vale
# balmy vale https://pokepast.es/ce1689e8e31dc896 is she a beauty?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2241449685
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2241451342
this is it in action

[Gen 9] Doubles OU: Brankles13 vs. tehirami - Replays - Pokémon Sho...

Watch a replay of a Pokémon battle between Brankles13 and tehirami! Format: [Gen 9] Doubles OU; Date: Nov 11, 2024

[Gen 9] Doubles OU: Ganz03 vs. tehirami - Replays - Pokémon Showdown!

Watch a replay of a Pokémon battle between Ganz03 and tehirami! Format: [Gen 9] Doubles OU; Date: Nov 11, 2024

brittle spade
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A team adapted to the power level in DOU would only be using one of those six pokemons

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You should pick one and try remaking the team using DOU mons and not mons below DUU

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Then we'll be able to give you useful feedback

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

lost bough
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https://pokepast.es/1f1c47b43b8ed14e
hey there can someone help me on teambuilding, so far i've done some playtest and realized that i have no ground type move to hit electric mons for 2x dmg (is it 2x or 4x? i forgot) any suggestion on this team?

please keep in mind im new in team building

-iron valiant as core
-usually pairs with pincurchin as i dont run booster energy
-its either iron valiant pincurchin lead or incineroar goldhengo lead,(rarely use goldhengo water ogerpon lead)
-recently swapped pincurchin discharge for electroweb as i like having some speed control
-currently dont really like goldhengo's moveset as i found myself only clicking "make it rain" and rarely hex
-corviknight is usually used as pivot or as a take with iron defense with body press to threaten enemy mons
-also i never click sword dance on iron valiant so im planning to switch that out aswell

peak crypt
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Pincurchin is actually such a bad Pokemon that you are usually better off with an empty team slot

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Electric Surge doesn’t save it

lost bough
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i was only using it for the ability to set up electric terrain

peak crypt
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There is no situation where you want a Pincurchin on your team

lost bough
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and some speed control but even thats minimal

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so any replacement in mind?

peak crypt
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Probably just a Raging Bolt—you don’t strictly need to hit every type super effective, you just need to be able to damage things, and Raging Bolt does good damage to itself (duh) and can throw a Draco Meteor at Iron Hands

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Pincurchin sucks because of its terrible stats and because all of the Future Pokemon don’t care about it—they’re all either good enough to use without it, or not helped enough by it to justify using it in the first place

lost bough
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alr thx

peak crypt
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Some of those sets could use some work too

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Without Protect on your set somewhere, Gholdengo and Valiant will both die painfully

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Ogerpon is missing arguably its best move and Corviknight probably doesn’t want both U-turn and Iron Defense

lost bough
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i was planning on using spiky shield on ogerpon and idk what to switch it with

peak crypt
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Standard Ogerpon is usually Spiky Shield / Ivy Cudgel / a Grass move of your choice / Follow Me

lost bough
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ic

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also is there any valiant move to relace swords dance?

peak crypt
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To be honest

lost bough
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so far after like 10ish test plays i’ve never used it

peak crypt
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Valiant isn’t great

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I think your best option is probably just to run Spirit Break or Moonblast, Close Combat, Knock Off, and Protect

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with either Sash or Life Orb

lost bough
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ic

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what makes valiant bad tho?

peak crypt
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Knock Off could be Encore instead

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Glass cannons have a lot working against them in doubles formats

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They’re usually really good at taking one KO but not good at living long enough to take a second

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and if they fire their big attack into a Protect they often won’t get that first KO

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because their low defenses are usually threatened by both of your opponent’s Pokémon

lost bough
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fair point

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alr then thx for the feedbacks

peak crypt
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But Wait, There’s More

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Things you should consider:
- switching to either a full support Corviknight or a full setup Corviknight; right now your bird just kind of exists and doesn’t do setup or support particularly well
- Nasty Plot or Choice item Gholdengo instead of your current set; both of these will give you a lot more consistent value than Air Balloon TWave

balmy vale
brittle spade
torpid moat
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all things considered, the typhlosion was probably the strongest part of the team

brittle spade
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take out indeedee and add a farigiraf then

torpid moat
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maybe just some regidrago tw team that happens to have typhlosion over chi yu could work

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the explosion part is actively bad btw, which is the main issue with the team

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for example you could take tyo's team here and swap out firepon

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or maybe swap out palafin instead and cut the rain part

brittle spade
edgy cipher
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.

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What do i change

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

edgy cipher
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(i posted it on sv ou by accident 😭 )

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Anyway this team is kind of old and im pretty sure it was my first doubles team so i expect it to be bad

brittle spade
edgy cipher
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Cuz i just came back to doubles and i wanted to make sure if its still viable

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Sorry and thanks

brittle spade
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doubles is not gonna change that much within two weeks, the team is still viable

edgy cipher
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Its only been two weeks?

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I am beyond lost in the sense of time

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Anyway again sorry, ty for telling me

lost bough
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guys recently i had my team rated and i was told to switch pincurchin off, i was wondering if i could use raichu instead to set terrain (i prefer having valiant holding fairy feather) here is the raichu team https://pokepast.es/c2ed647838544cad

peak crypt
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If you want to stop Amoonguss from clicking Spore you should use something with Taunt

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Manual Electric Terrain also isn’t worth using

lost bough
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damn

peak crypt
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and the Valiant needs Protect

lost bough
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oh right i forgot abt that

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what do i change for protect again

peak crypt
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either Knock or Encore

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I’d probably drop Knock Off since you have it on Incineroar

lost bough
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yeah i dropped it

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so ig valiant booster/

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?

peak crypt
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I think Life Orb or Sash are still better

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Life Orb gets a lot more damage out and Sash should guarantee you survive a hit against most comps

lost bough
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oh right i do have tail wind

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also @peak crypt is my corv supportive enough now?

peak crypt
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Yes

lost bough
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so i drop raichu's electric terrain for sumn right

torpid moat
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ideally you'd just not use raichu at all

lost bough
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fair

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what do i swap it for then

torpid moat
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you have enough support mons, you'd likely just be better off with lando i or raging bolt or something

lost bough
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what role does raging bolt fill?

torpid moat
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also, in the team's current configuration, there's not much reason to use corvi here compared to other twind setters like moltres-galar, tornadus, zap-galar

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raging bolt is either a calm mind attacker or assault vest support

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cm/dragon pulse/thunderclap/protect for first set

lost bough
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so since i already have enough support mon clam mind attacker would be the best choice?

torpid moat
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yeah I'd lean more for cm here

lost bough
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alr

torpid moat
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btw, your valiant is missing 100 spe evs

lost bough
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yeah i fixed that alr

torpid moat
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and if you're going for pure physical, consider running clear amulet instead of life orb

lost bough
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for valiant?

torpid moat
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imo though life orb cc + moonblast would be better

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yeah

lost bough
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with those ev's wouldnt moonblast be kinda bad?

torpid moat
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not really, moonblast has way higher bp than spirit break

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and being special means you aren't soft to intimidate

lost bough
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so i drop spirit break for moon rite?

torpid moat
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yeah

lost bough
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should i drop my attack ev's a bit?

torpid moat
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just make it -spdef and it'll prob be fine

lost bough
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alr done

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btw @torpid moat if im going for torn should i go with defensive or offensive

torpid moat
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try defensive here with covert cloak

lost bough
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alr

wild zodiac
torpid moat
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the enam here legitimately feels like worse lando i, its main niche is getting tailwind imo

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I do understand the eerie impulse thing but you're doing so with a pretty weak framework overall

torpid moat
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if you want a middle ground, try cutting just the whims and arch while running tailwind enam

wild zodiac
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yeah I thought about fake tears if I swap enam for lando

wild zodiac
torpid moat
warped arrow
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@unique heath

unique heath
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Thank you

warped arrow
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Can you please

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Put a pokepaste

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Of your team

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:D

unique heath
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Oh

unique heath
warped arrow
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yes

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unless you don't want the entire team to be made better

unique heath
#

Your Doom (Ursaluna-Bloodmoon) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Mind's Eye
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 76 HP / 32 Def / 252 SpA / 148 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

  • Blood Moon
  • Hyper Voice
  • Sleep Talk
  • Protect
#

Tweeter Maniac (Indeedee-F) (F) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpD / 0 Spe

  • Helping Hand
  • Trick Room
  • Follow Me
  • Psychic
#

Teacher (Oranguru) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Symbiosis
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Def / 212 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

  • Instruct
  • Trick Room
  • Psychic Terrain
  • Protect
#

F Ur Torkoal (Politoed) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Endeavor
  • Haze
  • Weather Ball
  • Encore
#

Gentlewoman (Lilligant-Hisui) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

  • After You
  • Upper Hand
  • Victory Dance
  • Close Combat
#

Derp (Slowking) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Oblivious
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe

  • Sunny Day
  • Trick Room
  • Surf
  • Expanding Force
warped arrow
#

still not a pokepaste but ok

unique heath
#

I don't know how to do it sorry 😅

warped arrow
#

oh nws

#

theres a video abt it

#

somewhere

#

iirc

peak crypt
#

if you go into the teambuilder

#

there is a button at the botttom

unique heath
#

Oh

warped arrow
#

i think im just dumb

#

nmv

peak crypt
#

the bottom one

unique heath
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

warped arrow
#

ty arctic

peak crypt
#

okay

#

tell me what's going on with this team

#

what's the goal

#

from the look I'm getting I feel like you could accomplish this with a lot less mess

unique heath
#

I'm trying to get around Amoonguss, my option was replacing Hyper Voice with Uproar

#

On my Bloodmoon

warped arrow
#

I think he was asking what the focus of the team in genreal was

peak crypt
#

^

unique heath
#

Cause sleeptalk wasted a turn when I woke up

#

Oh ok

#

So trick room Set up with Psychic terrain up to prevent priority moves

peak crypt
#

Aubrey I'd like this to be a one on one conversation for a bit

unique heath
#

And Bloodmoon sweep

warped arrow
#

mb for butting in

peak crypt
#

okay, so what's going on with the weird double weather thing

#

do you need this?

unique heath
#

Well, I tried to find anything to counter Torkoal cause he's one of the slowest mons and he does eruption, tera fire and boosted by the sun

#

So I got Politoad to stop him from sweeping

#

Literally had a day of dealing with Torkoal 80% of my battle in one day, I had enough

#

The sunny day is just in case that if Slowking somehow survive and my opponent is a rain team, I'd set up my sun and would be beneficial for Liligant

peak crypt
#

so if Bloodmoon faints

#

what do you do

unique heath
#

I lost

#

Well, I would try to sweep first with slowking even before I landed my bloodmoon

peak crypt
#

this team is absolutely not equipped to play that way

#

you have a really serious lack of type variety across the team, which can lead to things like Gholdengo clicking Nasty Plot once and just winning the game

unique heath
#

I could only reach 1400

peak crypt
#

and Bloodmoon itself isn't a great recipient of the type of support you're trying to provide; it mostly just offers damage with no real longevity or inevitability

unique heath
#

Is there a better option mon?

peak crypt
#

the Pokemon that benefit most from these "protect the carry" sorts of teams are usually things like Archaludon, Galarian Moltres, Iron Hands, or Raging Bolt

#

Pokemon that either bring a lot more power up front or have an "inevitability" aspect where eventually they're just so far ahead that they win

#

The Pokemon you've chosen isn't the only issue though; the support you're using isn't really ideal either

unique heath
#

Its just that I thought Bloodmoon has the only attacks with no pokemon type that has immunity with

peak crypt
#

in addition to the type stacking, the Pokemon you've chosen, the EVs you've given them, and the way they use their moves are pretty suboptimal

#

so rather than go back and try to fix things one at a time, let's start at the beginning:

#

what do you want to do?

unique heath
#

Unpredictable sweep

peak crypt
#

there is no such thing as unpredictable

unique heath
#

I thought that's the beauty of pokemon competitive? Tryning not to be predictable? Literally the game is build for trying to predict your opponents move. That should be everyone's goal right?

peak crypt
#

so the thing about this is basically

#

the best players are going to be able to figure out what you're trying to do from the moment they see team preview

#

Bloodmoon Oranguru is an old trick, Indeedee blocks priority, Slowking clicks Expanding Force and boosted Water moves, and the Lilligant is functionally irrelevant but might threaten something like a Kingambit

#

people generally know what Pokemon will do

#

it's good to try to find ways to catch your opponents off guard, but that alone isn't enough to win games; your teams need to be able to use that advantage and carry it to a game win

#

if you try to surprise me with no-attacks Oranguru, I will be surprised for a bit and then probably ignore the Oranguru for the rest of the game, because it doesn't have any tangible impact on the board; I will instead focus on the things that it might be trying to Instruct

unique heath
#

I know that, that is why I use throat spray then Orangu would pass silk scarf cause I don't want to deal with the drawback of life orb and Choice specs

peak crypt
#

if you're trying to sweep with Bloodmoon, I actually think you'd be much better off with Calm Mind; Instruct is cute but it's almost never better than just attacking your opponent twice

#

and it means you can drop the Oranguru for something that offers more utility or defensive synergy, like a Diancie

#

(which is incidentally really good against Torkoal)

unique heath
#

So, my issue with torkoal at the begining is the fact that he's the slowest mon out there, even if I put someone with bloodmoon, a full hp, sun boosted, tera fire Torkoal would one shot ursaluna

#

And I use trick room which makes him even scarier

peak crypt
#

you know you can just not click Trick Room against a Torkoal, right?

#

and if they set up Trick Room, you can use Trick Room yourself to deactivate it

unique heath
#

Look, that was before I even put Slowking and Politoad on the team

#

I start off with Indeedee and hatereen before

#

And since trick room is only a few turns active, I got a misty explossion boosted with helping hand so the stage is set for Bloodmoon and Oranguru

#

I even got floorges on my team for another symbiosis throat spray before

#

And polen puff to heal bloodmoon

peak crypt
#

this team is definitely better than anything with a Florges on it

unique heath
#

Yeah Florges was my original symbiosis mon before I discovered Oranguru

#

I literally build the team by experience alone

peak crypt
#

but I think you've built it without respecting your opponents enough; you've chosen your Pokemon and moves in a way that only interact with your Bloodmoon and not in ways that can actually proactively beat the things that threaten your Bloodmoon

#

you are suffering from tunnel vision, where you're only really paying attention to one single element of the team and not considering how games might actually play out

#

for example, this current version has exactly one Pokemon that can deal significant damage to Kingambit; a smart opponent might pick up on this and leverage their Gambit to deal significant damage to the team

#

Assault Vest Gambit can survive two fully boosted hits from Blood Moon

#

and it threatens Low Kick on the Bloodmoon or Kowtow Cleave on one of your three Psychic types

unique heath
#

I rarelt faced a kingambit, I thought it was barely used in DOU

peak crypt
#

it is a very good Pokemon

unique heath
#

But yeah when I did, I was defeated quicker than I anticipated

#

It only appeared like 2x so far on my game play

peak crypt
#

the greater point I want to make is that this team is too focused on doing one thing, and that one thing isn't enough to win games on its own against skilled opponents

unique heath
#

So thats why I didn't put any countwr measures for jt

peak crypt
#

and in the process of focusing too much on that one thing, you've made a lot of other suboptimal choices in teambuilding that make it very janky and inflexible

unique heath
#

Going back to your question though

#

What I want to do

#

I'll just want to rephrase it

#

I want to build the perfect anti meta team

peak crypt
#

anti-meta is pretty difficult to do in this format because there are a lot of things that require a variety of answers

unique heath
#

And not just build it, I wanna discover it for myself

peak crypt
#

and the Pokemon that do the best job of answering multiple things are some of the most used Pokemon in the format, like Incineroar, Rillaboom, and Raging Bolt

unique heath
#

That's why I started using Psychic terain, I tried to put 2 Indeedees on the team before but not allowed, I'll just wait for Tapulele to be available

peak crypt
#

Indeedee isn't anti-meta, Indeedee is a very large part of the meta

unique heath
#

Not as common as fake out users

#

Somw of the lower ladder ranks didn't know this and do priority moves on me while psychic terain is up

warped arrow
#

sob

wild cove
#

https://pokepast.es/1211da5a88ebcf61
any changes i can make in this team i usually open with kommo-o and latios with simple beam on kom and clangorous soul, after which i mostly spam clanging scales

#

duu btw

warped arrow
#

simple beam is not a particularly good strategy

wild cove
hardy island
#

https://pokepast.es/eac7ee2a7e05d179 a bunch of favs from different metas, and some new additions (sinistcha and garnacle) im thinking since my team is so slow i should give porygon2 trickroom

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
#

4 of your mons are using the wrong ability

#

if you're not aware, in gen 9 mons with inner focus are also immune to intimidate

#

so intimidate and fake out immunity is massive for dragonite, and suicune should have it too

torpid moat
#

investing in hp first is generally more efficient than in def or spdef

#

garganacl is extremely niche, but if you're gonna use it you want purifying salt for the status immunity + ghost resist

#

tanky/setup teams do exist, but they usually make use of aurora veil and they always still have options for dealing immediate damage

#

without offense, you'll just be run over by attackers or even opposing setup mons that you won't be able to answer

#

and yeah here sinistcha is used in its best role as a support

hardy island
#

thanks for the tips

#

i really hate that ability indeedee and that weird version of Girafferang have that denies prioity moves

#

kinda messes up my dragonite and scizor both

thorn sinew
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

thorn sinew
brittle spade
#

now your coalossol can outspeed the fastest dou mon, which is walking wake in sun

thorn sinew
#

i used tera dark whimsicott to avoid taunt from other prankster mond

peak crypt
#

You are the fastest Prankster user; you don’t need to worry about them Taunting you

tawdry hazel
brittle spade
#

ideally you should also get rid of hoopa, that mon is not good

tawdry hazel
#

What should I replace him with

thorn sinew
#

does anybody have any ideas for a team involving breloom

#

like what would breloom do

#

fast spore user? or physical sweeper with swords dance and mach punch and bullet seed or something

brittle spade
brittle spade
#

the best set would be focus sash technician bullet seed mach punch spore protect

#

and you run that with booster speed roaring moon or tailwind tornadus

#

and then teammates to deal with dragonite gholdengo

thorn sinew
torpid moat
#

scarf is also not totally awful if you already have indeedee somewhere

thorn sinew
#

it covers dragonite

#

and resist gholdengo while having coverage with knock off

brittle spade
#

please use mons from the viability rankings

thorn sinew
#

oh

#

mb

brittle spade
#

which iron valiant is notably absent from

thorn sinew
#

thought people used iron valiant

brittle spade
#

iron valiant isn't just regular bad

#

it's advanced bad

thorn sinew
#

oh

#

that sucks

#

i hate gholdengo

brittle spade
#

or the samples page

#

gholdengo is great tho

brittle spade
#

a list of what's good in the tier and what's bad

thorn sinew
#

thanks

#

i couldn’t really find accurate tiers

#

doesn’t intimidate make dragonite basically usless

brittle spade
#

dragonite runs inner focus 95% of the time

thorn sinew
#

oh yeah

brittle spade
#

so intimidate is useless against it

thorn sinew
#

forgot

torpid moat
#

Viability Rankings and Sample Teams: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/

Smogon Forums
Resource - SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings

Art by Fangame10

Welcome to the Doubles OU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every month), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and...

Smogon Forums
Resource - Doubles OU Sample Teams

Art by GenOne

Welcome to the Sample Teams thread! This thread is meant to highlight the best of the best teams in the Doubles OU tier. Sample Teams are exemplary teams that have proven themselves to be good and are basic enough for beginners to use, allowing them to pick up the fundamentals of...

torpid moat
#

the pins are very hard to see in mobile ui though

thorn sinew
#

thank you kind fellow

thorn sinew
torpid moat
#

also you will likely want to answer dnite and ghold with separate mons

#

ghold has many checks like landorus, incin/chi yu

brittle spade
#

thanks

brittle spade
torpid moat
#

ghold itself is actually quite good vs dnite

#

and vs itself

#

for dnite you really just want something that can tank reasonably well that doesn't rely on intim

brittle spade
#

or da giraf

thorn sinew
marsh nest
#

Is this a singles chat?

thorn sinew
#

doubles

#

i think

marsh nest
#

Reg doubles or vgc?

#

Wait no

#

DOU

#

🤣

#

Its ou

torpid moat
#

dnite would be straight up unviable with flutter legal

brittle spade
#

dnite was played when flutter was legal

#

they were played together tho

torpid moat
#

hm, maybe my memory is bad on that

#

I felt like palafin was the default prio choice

#

anyways, @thorn sinew you should probably have lando i on this comp, and then answers to waterpon

#

normally your grass(rilla) is supposed to have a positive waterpon matchup, but breloom is too frail to count

#

maybe try raging bolt

thorn sinew
thorn sinew
#

ive been trying to make a breloom team for long

thorn sinew
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

thorn sinew
thorn sinew
#

i forgot psychic terrain blocks mach punch and thunderclap

brittle spade
#

yeah no you're not putting a single bulk EV on breloom

#

its adamant 252atk

#

period

#

just use sample sets for the other mons

thorn sinew
#

i will try samples though

torpid moat
thorn sinew
#

oh

torpid moat
#

also just so you're aware, your evs are incredibly inefficient

#

you're generally supposed to ev to 252 hp before touching both defenses

#

that's what ratpacker meant by the sample sets, lots of the ev spreads and movesets are questionable

tawdry hazel
#

What is the best water type??????????? For a bulky team

peak crypt
#

Wellspring Ogerpon is the best Water type in DOU hands down

lilac yacht
#

any thoughts?

#

messed up the ev on landorus, fixing it later

thorn sinew
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
# lilac yacht https://pokepast.es/471c1d777841745d]

For a couple quick “housekeeping” notes:
- Sand Veil and Snow Cloak are currently being suspect tested, and may be banned in the near future. There’s a chance this team could be illegal in a couple weeks.
- Assault Vest prevents Kingambit from using Swords Dance.

With those out of the way, this team is a little bit messy. It has some good Pokémon on it, but they don’t really present a ton of opportunities. Froslass doesn’t deal very much damage with its low base 80 Special Attack, and Spikes isn’t nearly as effective in DOU as it is in singles formats. Meanwhile, your Landorus is built offensively, but doesn’t have any partners to click Earthquake next to besides Protect Amoonguss, and with minimal speed control your Basculegion is simply too slow to present a significant threat. We can probably carve out something better here, but before I need to ask—what do you want this team to do? What kind of direction are you looking for?

acoustic peak
#

i would never accidentally post in the wrong thread

peak crypt
#

this needs a lot of work but I am currently at work

#

I can help later or someone else can get to it

acoustic peak
#

okey

peak crypt
#

tagging @remote edge is my favorite hobby personally

acoustic peak
#

LOL

remote edge
#

I'm at work for another hour

peak crypt
#

shit

remote edge
#

ill get it once I'm out

acoustic peak
#

eh its fine

#

ping me when you want

remote edge
#

oki

dire flint
#

this is the wrong channel you want VGC rates

thorn sinew
#

oh

#

whoopsie

#

perchance where is that channel?

dire flint
#

should be the same process

#

just go to the channel labeled vgc instead of dou

thorn sinew
dire flint
#

#1059704283072831499 message

#

ok

#

go to this message link

thorn sinew
#

thank you

dire flint
#

it should take you there

thorn sinew
#

i think i should add volcarona in place of clefable since it can redirect too and also covers my grass types and my snealers 4x weak psychic weakness

#

while also being able to set up with quiver dance

#

so not can it redirect and cover my weaknesses but if they dont take care of volcarona it can sweep their entire team

#

also its pretty fast

acoustic peak
peak crypt
#

okay I forgot about this but I have been off work for a while

acoustic peak
#

k

peak crypt
# acoustic peak https://pokepast.es/781150ce3d473668

let's start with the good:
- Indeedee + Expanding Force is pretty good
- Chien-Pao + Dragonite is pretty good
- Gholdengo + Amoonguss is pretty good
- the sets are overall okay

now let's move onto the issues
- Draining Kiss is doing less than resisted Psychic, even without terrain. An Indeedee without Trick Room also doesn't need to be Sassy.
- Delphox is pretty weak. Magician is cute, but without a boosting item, you have a frail Pokemon that's utterly incapable of taking knockouts. You've also dropped Fire coverage on a team that desperately needs a reliable way to hit Steels
- Chien-Pao does not function in this format without Protect. As one of the best Pokemon in the format but also one of the biggest targets, your opponent will constantly be trying to take it out, and without the ability to click Protect, you are at the mercy of whatever comes its way. Additionally, Ice Spinner removes your Psychic Terrain. This is bad.
- Poltergeist is a physical move. Have you looked at Gholdengo's Attack stat?
- This Dragonite is attempting to use its weaker ability in Doubles (Inner Focus makes you immune to Intimidate and Fake Out and is generally preferred over Multiscale), is running Earthquake with no immunities, has Dragon Pulse for some reason, and is using Extreme Speed in Psychic Terrain.
- The Amoonguss is all right, but having double status is usually just worse than Spore and Protect. DOU has no Sleep Clause, so you can just click Spore on things; Toxic is rarely going to come up, and this team (in theory) has enough front loaded damage that it doesn't need it in the first place.

I think the best thing for this team to do would be to pick one of Indeedee + EForce and Chien-Pao + Dragonite, keep the Amoonguss and Gholdengo, and drop the duo you didn't pick

(character limit soon, time for a new message)

acoustic peak
#

mb i thought poltergeist was special

peak crypt
#

Indeedee Eforce and PaoNite don't really mesh together; a duo known for priority spam and the ability to answer terrain doesn't want to share a team with a Psychic Terrain duo

acoustic peak
#

fair

peak crypt
#

Delphox also usually isn't the Expanding Force clicker of choice; Iron Crown, Hoopa-Unbound, and vanilla Deoxys all deal more damage and have their own set of perks that make them stand out over Delphox

#

(Armarouge and Hatterene too but they're a little further down the rankings than those three)

#

if there's a half of the team you like more, I'm happy to help build the team out from there

acoustic peak
#

I'll have to stick with the Indeedee EF duo

peak crypt
#

just for the sake of making minimal changes let's keep the Delphox for now; it isn't perfect but an aggressive Delphox set can keep some heat off of a setup Gholdengo backed by double redirection, and it hits a couple things Gho doesn't like facing.

#

I've been puzzling over this for a bit and I like the idea of tossing a Raging Bolt in slot 5, as it's an effective check to Wellspring Ogerpon, but I'm still working on slot 6

#

leaning into Trick Room and running an Ursaluna has crossed my mind

#

Raging Bolt gives the team a bulky pivot

#

it and Indeedee work together to control speed in the way that'll be most effective for the game you're playing

#

Basculegion can Flip Turn early and then click funny button Last Respects in the late game when it blows everything up

acoustic peak
acoustic peak
#

team is working out 👍

cinder vector
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
austere spindle
#

im very new to current gen

#

boots seems useless

austere spindle
#

hit 1200 now

main sapphire
#

Ik it's a DUU team but idk where else to post it

ivory vale
#

I wanna have a strong hisui focused team, I’m new to competitive Pokémon

IMG_5099.jpg
#

This is what I’d made so far

peak crypt
#

unfortunately most of the Hisuian Pokemon are pretty weak in DOU

#

your best bet would probably be to build a Trick Room team centered around Ursaluna and Enamorus-T, but that's only two Hisuian Pokemon

#

Sneasler and Typhlosion-H are seeing some action in the current VGC format, but that ends in a month

#

I suppose the "classic" Lilligant-H/Torkoal/Indeedee builds can squeeze in three

#

you could get all of Lilligant, Ursaluna, and one of Enam-T or Zoroark in

torpid moat
torpid moat
#

ok, this team except with bulk up okidogi instead

#

you could also go for like tales-a/sd iron hands/sinistcha as a starting comp

#

regardless of what you end up with you should definitely use tales instead of abomasnow, the fast veil is very important

#

if you actually want to go grindy, try a ting lu + glimmora comp with scarf basc-f plus dnite or entei cleaner

main sapphire
#

Archalodon and similar mons would wall the team with 5 physical attackers and 1 special attacker

peak crypt
#

Archaludon is not legal in Doubles UU

#

(and it's not like Clefable beats it anyway)

main sapphire
#

Archaludon was just an example

#

Still similar physical walls would block a team with only 1 special attacker

peak crypt
#

there are honestly very few physical walls that can actually stand up to getting hit twice in a turn

#

and those that can are often clicking Iron Defense and will struggle to answer your Enamorus

#

walls don't really exist as a concept in doubles like they do in singles

#

it's just too difficult for one Pokemon to eat two attacks per turn while still advancing the game

austere spindle
#

im weak to trick room + ursaluna or last respects

#

but that seems to be the most common sweepers so i dont think there is an easy solution to that

austere spindle
#

every team using trick room is crazy

#

why isnt it banned?

peak crypt
#

Trick Room gets a lot less common when you get farther up the ladder

#

full TR is a fairly linear strategy most of the time with a few pretty “obvious” ways to play against it

austere spindle
#

i should make a sand semistall team instead of hail

torpid moat
#

you're literally not making semistall, you're making bulky offense

#

which is fine, so long as you bring enough answers to things like trick room and chi yu/lando

torpid moat
tawdry hazel
peak crypt
#

the Ting-Lu on this team makes literally all of your Pokemon worse

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there are some other things to talk about but that is issue number 1

tawdry hazel
#

Damn my bad bro

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I always thought the ruined stuff only worked on your opponents

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What's a good replacement

novel token
#

Now that im in the right thread is there anything i can do to improve my team i mostly picked pokemon i liked with some that i know are generally good

Screenshot_20241204-205925.png
dire flint
# novel token Now that im in the right thread is there anything i can do to improve my team i ...
  • Talonflame is unviable in the current metagame I would recommend running Tornadus instead, if you want to use talonflame regardless of this you should switch the ability to gale wings, the tera to ghost, and replace u-turn with a different move
  • Iron Hands should be a tera that helps it defensively, such as Grass, be clear amulet(to block intimidate) or a recovery berry, and volt switch should be replaced with a move that does actual damage
  • Ursaluna-BM is a special attacker there is no reason to run flame orb or facade, also not sure what Fake Tears does for you
  • Amoonguss should have rage powder to redirect attacks, drop the resto chesto if you want to recover your amoonguss switch it out
  • Rest talk is useless on clefairy replace those with moves that actually have an impact on the game, clefairy also doesn't make much sense here it overlaps significantly with amoonguss
    -Regieleki doesn't make much sense here either. If you're intent on running it make it tera ice tera blast so it can touch ground types
    to put it bluntly nearly every pokemon on your team is running a suboptimal set and they all have very little synergy with each other, I think you should try out some teams from the samples and the bazaar and learn the tier before you start building
novel token
#

And after a few games i realized my teras sucked worse than a vacuum because I didn't know you can change them i fixed it though

novel token
dire flint
#

I would recommend not setting up electric terrain

#

the quark drive mons are fine without it

daring blade
#

https://pokepast.es/06a14c2ac6b83d07, I know that this is obviously a sun team and all. The liligant is used to take away the sr from the glimora rampaging around, walking wake and armarouge has great synergy as they can activate the weak armour weakness policy and sweep. I tried switching liligant into volcarona, not much help against others

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

teal acorn
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

novel token
#

I think ive finally made something thats atleast ok still tweaking stuff but the team feels good

Screenshot_20241205-150615.png
austere spindle
#

Turn 6
☆MasterSethcool: riveting gameplay

MasterSethcool forfeited.

#

thats what i mean when i say semistall

teal acorn
novel token
#

Im not even using that team anymore because it was so garbo, im adding mons one at a time after battles now to build a stronger team

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So far now

novel token
teal acorn
teal acorn
novel token
#

I think ive got it down

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I open with iron hands talon flame and use belly drum tail wind, next turn use earthquake will o wisp, if either get low swap out for clefairy and so on

Screenshot_20241205-204908.png
#

Still working out small stuff like items

torpid moat
#

hisui lilli's main niche is chlorophyll sleep powder after you paired with torkoal/tr mons, not hazard removal

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if you want hazard removal, just use rapid spin great tusk or your own glimmora

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the weakness policy gimmick is not worth it, especially when it's on a mon like armor that doesn't help your matchup at all and also doesn't have indeedee support

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chi yu also pretty much outclasses zard in every way

#

but yeah overall you definitely need to cut some fires and run mons that actually complement your attackers, like lando i to help with incin and diancie, also probably disruption of some kind (fake out, follow me, or priority blocking)

#

needs more protect too, very rough tr matchup overall

torpid moat
#

porygon2 is best as a trick room setter, if you just want a fat mon then raging bolt or even kyurem or cresselia will do you better

novel token
#

Mr yellow paint what do you think about mine 🙏

torpid moat
#

I'm going in order down the list

novel token
#

Alr alr

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The furthest one down bc the first one was an utter flop

torpid moat
#

but yeah kkrocks you really just need more attackers, and more offensive sets too, the great tusk looks like it's a singles set instead of the standard headlong rush + cc

#

also, gweezing isn't actually that disruptive, and your mons can't do much to take advantage of openings regardless

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if you want disruptive, check out encore disable scream tail

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that paired with hazards from ting lu or glimm can really wear down teams by forcing switches, especially if you're debuffing with snarl or intimidate while cycling in fake out

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you just need to make sure you have reliable attackers too to actually win the game

torpid moat
#

you don't get a more viable version of doubles stall than hazards + sand tomb + encore disable lockdown

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slow and methodical grind and forced switches leading to an inevitable loss to basc/espeed

torpid moat
novel token
#

Yes

torpid moat
#

ok, a few things then

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if you're going to use belly drum iron hands, it's best with drain punch and sitrus berry for longevity so it can actually drum without dying

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also, it's best with trick room, not tailwind

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hands isn't fast enough to outspeed things like chi yu even with tailwind support

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well technically it is fast enough, but you would have to also run max spe jolly, and it's just not practical

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it's better to play to your strengths and just run tr indeedee or sinistcha or similar

novel token
#

So swap talon with indeedee or someone else

torpid moat
#

on other stuff, talon is directly outclassed by tornadus(you don't want torn here either), jirachi is really mediocre without access to follow me, and milotic and clef are pretty niche mons

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if you just want to build a strong bd hands team, you would be better off starting from scratch with hands indeedee waterpon

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or going for aurora veil ninetales-a

novel token
#

Waterpon?

torpid moat
#

ogerpon wellspring, who gets follow me, while also being a threatening attacker on its own

novel token
#

How is it defense wise

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Because clef has shown to be pretty tanky so far

torpid moat
#

clef does have a niche with friend guard, for the mon itself though I think waterpon has more natural bulk

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clef has 0 offensive presence

novel token
#

Yeah friend guard is the main reason i use it other than as a living sandbag

torpid moat
#

and if there's belly drum hands involved, sinistcha is likely better because it provides all 3 of healing + rage powder + trick room in a single mon

novel token
#

Ok ill check it out

#

It probably would be better as its ghost type too huh

torpid moat
#

but yeah you should think about alternative attackers besides hands too

novel token
#

Its just my favorite honestly

torpid moat
#

I mean in addition to hands

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you need other attackers

novel token
#

Oh yeah for sure

torpid moat
#

ursaluna-blood-moon would be an easy one, it doesn't need much support beyond setting tr

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and the life orb set is immediately powerful

novel token
#

Ok yeah ill play around with the team building a bit more and ill come back here thank you

#

I also really like ursaluna bm so that works

torpid moat
#

hands sinistcha blood moon incineroar (if no indeedee) for example would be a reasonable 4

novel token
#

What would i run with incin because anytime i try him he always feels super underwhelming

torpid moat
#

it's meant to be mainly a support mon to weaken and disrupt your opponent

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it runs fake out/knock off/flare blitz/parting shot with intimidate

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and maximum bulk

novel token
#

So spD and hp ev?

torpid moat
#

sometimes it runs snarl or will o wisp instead of knock or blitz

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yeah, hp def spdef

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hp should always be 252

novel token
#

And even split on defenses alr

#

Yeah ok thank you im gonna go start from scratch now

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Oh yeah my main dmg move i use is earthquake i only had talon to not get crossfired but a ghost type wouldn't be hit anyways

torpid moat
#

I really don't recommend eq in dou at all, it gets halved by the very common grassy terrain

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hands is bulky, it can take its time with drain punch

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adding sinistcha and incin also helps complement its bulk

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similar with luna

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eq also hits allies which makes it very inflexible during games

novel token
#

But with the buff of belly drum it doesn't matter that its halved in my experiences bc my attack stat gets raised to 1600

torpid moat
#

bd hands has a limited number of coverage slots, one of them needs to be drain punch, one needs to be drum, one should most likely be protect

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that leaves only one slot left, and if it's eq then you might not be able to oneshot flying types

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or certain ghosts

novel token
torpid moat
#

in that replay your hands failed to one shot a blood moon and died

novel token
#

Its special def is non existent

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Glass cannon is what i was going for

torpid moat
#

hands has surprisingly good special bulk if you just run 252 atk 252 spdef

#

that's actually the standard spread

novel token
#

The 252 in spD is in hp instead would it be better to have it in spD?

torpid moat
#

it would be better to have it inspdef

novel token
#

Ok

torpid moat
#

this is rare case where investing in defensive stat is better than hp

novel token
#

Ok bet the teams rlly fun and super strong though and exactly what i was looking for in a playstyle

torpid moat
#

ok, glad you like it then

novel token
#

The only tidbit is the ninetales feels slightly out of place

inland parcel
#

If you wanted you could use light clay on ninetails

novel token
#

Oooo i could couldn't i good thinking

inland parcel
#

There are better options than the 50-50 sing accuracy, like encore or ally swap
And ursa should have earthpower over taunt

teal acorn
teal acorn
teal acorn
#

Will try to change it accordingly

novel token
#

Might give one of my mons another healing move just to make hands super annoying

daring blade
#

air baloon sinistcha?

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rocky helmet indeedee?

novel token
#

My team serves as a walking nuke

daring blade
#

ok

novel token
#

And it honestly keeps it kinda more fair for my opponents because a few of my mons get destroyed in the process

daring blade
#

still kinda weird though

novel token
#

How so

novel token
daring blade
novel token
#

Wouldn't help for my purposes tbh

bitter fulcrum
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

novel token
#

Newest team played a few matches and im satisfied

Screenshot_20241206-221636.png
inland parcel
#

I don’t think you need 2 redirectors

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And you got lots of overlapping types

novel token
#

Yeah the team was uber inconsistent

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So i deleted it

#

Sticking with my hands drum team

bitter fulcrum
novel token
#

He can be a very bulky sweeper if you build him up right

bitter fulcrum
novel token
#

And then im not adept enough with any other mon on your team but i personally dont like amoonguss hes just too slow that he rlly relies on tr so id run sum like sinistcha or indeedee or sum

novel token
bitter fulcrum
novel token
#

I just personally think there are better options but its ultimately up to you spore is rlly strong and annoying to deal with so either way

bitter fulcrum
novel token
#

Sinistcha is a good pick because it can set heal take aggro and it has a strong ability healing everyone instead of just itself

#

This is what i personally run team wise

#

Id run sash on sinitcha instead if my nuke move wasn't eq just to get off one extra heal even if something is capable of one shotting it

bitter fulcrum
novel token
#

Balloon makes sinitcha immune to eq keeping it on the field for me during my big power moves

#

Mostly preference though

bitter fulcrum
#

Unfortunately this sinistcha weakens the team a bit just because it feels like a weaker amoonguss for this team

#

AV was a good item for Iron Hands though

novel token
#

Sinitcha might just not be it for your playstyle then thats respectable

#

Also id recommend running fake out on hands since no one else has it on your team

#

Makes for a really good shut down on scarier opponents to further your setup

#

Alright night everyone its late

novel token
brittle spade
#

if you really want to run amoonguss you could get rid of archaludon and run farigiraf over it

#

or put a very slow banded landorus-therian over ursaluna

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or you just run a single trick room user, amoonguss over sinistcha and ogerpon-wellspring over sinistcha

novel token
brittle spade
novel token
#

Not once

#

I told him i ran it for my set for my personal preference

#

I also told him to do as he likes and to take every word i say with a grain of salt because i know im not a professional and im not going to serve him what may be misinformation on a silver platter of confidence

#

Im not telling him to do this one thing im simply suggesting he tries things he hasn't and see if it works is all thank you though

brittle spade
novel token
#

One of the worst sets in existence hasn't lost me a single match and again im simply suggesting to try new things and see if they work theres no need to attack me for it

#

Sure its cool for your teacher to help you in class but its still ok for fellow students to try and help and theres no reason for you to tell me not to when im simply giving optional suggestions if he doesn't like the team theres nothing stopping him from going to you and trying yours

#

Everything in this game is trial and error and there is no singular right way to do something

brittle spade
brittle spade
#

I am not attacking you, I am explaning why you commenting here is counterproductive to us

novel token
#

Because again you gave him almost the exact same advice for hands

#

And if sinitcha hands is so useless why has it won tournaments?

brittle spade
#

That is not what I said, sinistcha is absolutely a good mon and it does pair with hands, but air ballon is a waste of an item on it.
I said what I needed to, the conversation is over

novel token
#

I never recommended balloon which youd know if you actually looked it should have been over a long time ago before you even mentioned me

#

You aren't an admin you have no place to tell me what i can and cant do its a community for a reason im going to continue to try my best to help my peers where i can

torpid moat
novel token
#

So be it but hes not going to be hateful and simply tell me off and expect me not to say something

torpid moat
#

They're not being hateful to you, they're just explaining your relative skill level and how that affects your understanding and advice. Things that might work at 1200 aren't necessarily correct or optimal, so showing your team as an example can be very misleading. They might copy your Sinistcha or Hands set, which would be incorrect on their team. I didn't attempt to improve your team any further because you were satisfied, but that doesn't mean it can be used as a guide for others.

novel token
#

Alr wtv dude

bitter fulcrum
#

Well for my opinion as the person who received the advice the Sinistcha that guy told me to use actively hurt my team

#

@brittle spade I appreciate the advice especially on the different tera types compared to what I was originally running. Already seeing improvement running flying archaludon over steel

brittle spade
icy thorn
#

rate this

peak crypt
#

this is a lot of pretty good Pokémon running pretty suboptimal sets

#

Rillaboom generally runs Assault Vest with Fake Out as one of its biggest assets

Glimmora generally prefers to either set hazards with a Sash set or blow something up with Power Herb Meteor Beam

Scream Tail has like base 65 Attack, this thing should not be trying to deal damage

Incin is fine but Tera Fire is a really strange choice on a set with no damaging Fire moves

Basc will probably blow up before it gets to deal any serious damage with Last Respects; it really wants to just be Scarf and get as much damage down as fast as possible

Archaludon is mostly fine, but Tera Electric doesn’t really help it much—while Electric sees some use in VGC, that format uses it with Power Herb to get a gigantic Electro Shot and follow up with STAB Thunderbolt, and there’s currently no Landorus-I in VGC for it to worry about

icy thorn
#

what tera shoul i give to incin and arch? rillaboom and glimmora have actually worked just fine, scream tail im fine with changing it so what would you reccomend for its moves?

peak crypt
#

I actually think the best way to take this team is one of two options

#

Either swap out the Scream Tail for a Pelipper and run Swift Swim Basc with Choice Band

#

Or make the Archaludon a Calm Mind Raging Bolt and make the Scream Tail full support

#

I can mock up these ideas in a few minutes, I’m not at my computer atm

icy thorn
#

ok

peak crypt
#

https://pokepast.es/ad175ef2de3be10c - this is the rain version I suggest. It uses Electro Shot Archaludon, CB Basc, and Meteor Beam Glimmora to play a lot more of an offensive game, with Pelipper providing both damage and Tailwind and double Fake Out to create more openings to deal damage (and Grassy healing makes Arch really annoying to actually answer)

https://pokepast.es/0ca1a727d73fc3c1 - the CM Raging Bolt version. This one leverages Incin Rilla a bit more alongside AV Glimm, Encore Scream Tail, and hazards to just be annoying long enough to set up games where either Raging Bolt can set up and win the game or Basc just picks everything left off with Last Respects

#

@icy thorn

#

252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 32 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tera Flying Glimmora: 266-314 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

icy thorn
#

I put pelliper as you raccomended

#

Rillaboom however i found world well with my build, i think that rillaboom build Is kinda overrated i face It a lot

#

Archaludon i considered that build as It seems very good but i ended up doing It my way

#

For the tera i followed what you did

#

Glimmora i changed It by adding the item that lets you use the move in one turn and the rock move

#

I also changed basc your way

#

@peak crypt

peak crypt
#

I really need you to trust me when I say the Rillaboom set you have is not very good

#

Leech Seed just isn't good in this format where the average game length is like 14 turns

#

if you're using Pelipper you should be using Electro Shot

#

you get to use that in a single turn as long as rain is going

icy thorn
icy thorn
peak crypt
#

realistically there is a chance that you're just better than the opponents you're currently playing

#

but as you climb the ladder and your opponents get better, the set will lose its effectiveness and you'll need more out of your Rillaboom slot

#

(or you'll just face more things clicking Expanding Force and you'll want the extra bulk from Assault Vest)

bitter fulcrum
brittle spade
#

or use hands

#

you don't have to set trick room turn 1

bitter fulcrum
#

My usual leads are Pelipper and Brozong but against them I swap Pelipper to Hands I think I just need to break the mindset of “setup asap” because like you said I don’t need to do it turn 1

#

I try to use Brozong as a safety net in case I misread but 9/10 they just use Landurus and Brozong becomes a hindrance

brittle spade
#

if you're expecting a tornadus lead with taunt you can just lead pelipper archaludon

#

youll get a feel for it the more you play

#

of when you should and should not try to TR round 1

#

rewatch your replays and see what you can improve or what leads you could have gone for

bitter fulcrum
#

Ok thank you I’ll play a bit more with this in mind

icy thorn
icy thorn
brittle spade
icy thorn
#

Why not?

brittle spade
#

archaludon wants a tera that will make it resist ground moves

icy thorn
#

I'll try Spike shield

icy thorn
#

I didnt think of that

brittle spade
#

mortal spin does neither

icy thorn
#

Yeah and im also not facing hazards tbh

#

I was using It for double poison more often

brittle spade
#

just use the sample set for rillaboom

#

so assault vest fake out

icy thorn
icy thorn
brittle spade
#

yeah but thats just bad

icy thorn
brittle spade
#

if you wanna be different try miracle seed protect

#

but not leech seed

#

also archaludon really likes body press

#

being walled by ting lu and co. is not something you want

icy thorn
#

Makes sense

#

What type for arch

#

Flying

brittle spade
#

assault vest is the best item on rillaboom

brittle spade
#

nothing else pls

#

grass is ok too

icy thorn
#

Flying

#

For sure

#

(omw to face rock)

brittle spade
#

flying makes you weaker to snow and bug makes you weaker to tornadus

#

if you keep playing rain you might want to try archaludon iron hands sinischa pelipper

#

its what people play the most rn

icy thorn
lost bough
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
lost bough
#

it was a revamped version of a team i played with

peak crypt
#

have you played any games with this team yet?

lost bough
#

just a game or two

peak crypt
#

have you noticed the problems with the Rillaboom set

lost bough
#

oh right

peak crypt
#

yeah you have somehow ended up with Protect on an Assault Vest Pokemon and no Grass move

#

now to the actually productive part:

#

this is one of those teams that feels like it isn't really going anywhere

#

you have four Pokemon whose primary function is varying degrees of support, but your payoff for that support isn't all that strong; Kingambit isn't setting up and Quaquaval just doesn't really do anything against competent players

#

condensing the Quaquaval and Amoonguss into a Wellspring Ogerpon helps give the team a little bit more immediate pressure without losing redirection, and a swap to Swords Dance Kingambit gives you a really powerful win condition that you have a lot of support for

#

and the new empty slot can be something like Kyurem that can just dump a bunch of damage out at once

#

I'd also suggest running max HP on the Ninetales rather than Special Attack, but I wanted to keep some of your calcs familiar, so I left the SpA EVs on

lost bough
#

alr thx

wide dragon
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
#

if you got it from tyo I wouldn’t change anything

wide dragon
#

whats my game plan aganist blizzard spam and lando?

peak crypt
#

SD Gambit is good into the only Ice types that matter and can threaten Landorus and Ursaluna with +2 Tera Dark Sucker Punch

wide dragon
#

its tera dragon atm

peak crypt
#

CM Bolt also does well against them with Tera Fairy

wide dragon
#

tera dark?

peak crypt
#

Oh it is Dragon I can’t read

#

I still would not change anything

wide dragon
#

yea maybe i need to use my teras better

peak crypt
#

This team has the tools to play around its weaknesses; as long as you have one of your setup sweepers live it’s probably going to work out fine

#

on another note, if you got the team from tyo, you should probably be bringing this up with tyo first, not us

#

he’s almost certainly put more time into thinking about these matchups and will have insights we do not

wide dragon
warped arrow
peak crypt
#

I mean there’s not much to improve on with Gambit

warped arrow
#

fair

peak crypt
#

usually the only thing you change is speed creep if you have speed control on the team

warped arrow
#

i just think its funny

#

Lefties sd gambit with terain and gouger support is dumb good tho

#

its black glasses i am blind

#

same diffrence

wide dragon
#

yea im liking gambit

warped arrow
#

Arctic random ahhh question but do you think it would be worth going max def dump hp on cm bolt because you get more value

#

192 hp 248 def or 252 and take one from spa

#

instead of 248 hp and 192 def

wide dragon
#

the cm bolt on tyos team has the craziest spread

warped arrow
#

who even is tyo

wide dragon
#

a long lost legend perhaps

peak crypt
peak crypt
#

if you’re familiar with the Articuno team from Reg F, that was him

warped arrow
peak crypt
#

you don’t need to be a VGC player to put effort into your EV spreads

warped arrow
peak crypt
#

They’re more accustomed to getting as much as they can out of their EVs

elfin ermine
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
#

are you aware of the importance of protect? if you're really planning on building around toxtricity, you can rely on tailwind for the speed and should run protect over shift gear. Throat spray is also way better for damage than normal gem, which is only 1.3x for a single attack. Basc-f is still best as a fully physical attacker, with last respects/wave crash/aqua jet/flip turn.

#

the main reason to use incineroar is fake out, try a set of fake out/flare blitz/knock off/parting shot

#

whimsicott really wants covert cloak to ignore fake out, which reduces the need for protect to let you run useful moves like encore or fake tears. Encore or fake tears are the only reason to use whims instead of tornadus. Also, moonblast is better than dazzling gleam because whims only really wants to attack specific targets.

#

lando-i runs sheer force life orb earth power/sludge bomb/sandsear storm/protect

#

chien pao runs focus sash ice spinner/sucker punch/sacred sword/protect

teal acorn
#

tried to apply the suggestions i got for my team