#Smogon Doubles Rates

1 messages · Page 13 of 1

brittle spade
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And use the spreads I posted, yours are inefficient. If you want a bulky mon you do 252hp 128def 128spdef

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Not 252def 252spdef

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Always full hp unless specific scenarios

chilly wyvern
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So 252 hp 128 defs on suicune

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Ok

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New spreads and items with grimsnarl

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Is there any way to take care of grass types

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Cuz the new mask legendary keeps shutting me down

barren bluff
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help pls (bump)

chilly wyvern
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The team looked very similar to one I fought like 30 minutes ago

barren bluff
chilly wyvern
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Prob not then but someone had thay like identical team

brittle spade
brittle spade
# barren bluff help pls (bump)

I'll send you a pokepaste later tonight.
But basically your team is too centered around reuniclus and calm mind recover is too greedy. I'm just gonna put life orb magic guard reuniclus

peak crypt
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@barren bluff Clefairy is an incredibly niche Pokémon that generally wants partners that do very specific things; is there a reason you keep including it?

barren bluff
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and also friend guard for survivability

peak crypt
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There are literally hundreds of Pokémon that learn Helping Hand

barren bluff
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clef has the bulk too rather than maushold

peak crypt
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The things you want to use with Clefairy are basically just the very best setup sweepers—things that are already strong but will absolutely dominate a game with Clefairy support

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Think stuff like Nasty Plot Gholdengo

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If you aren’t basically trying to checkmate your opponent in a couple turns, you’re better off using a different support Pokémon

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Or on this particular team, probably just using another attacker

brittle spade
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Clef is also a support option for teams that can't afford trick room checks

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Which is not the case here

peak crypt
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You already have Cress, Amoonguss, and Indeedee, and adding Clefairy means you’re putting a lot of eggs into a basket with some holes in it

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That slot would probably be best as another attacker rather than a fourth support Pokémon

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Something like Assault Vest Kingambit might be cool there since you’re already running three Psychic types

brittle spade
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You're running lv99 reuniclus

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To underspeed amoonguss

chilly wyvern
brittle spade
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You're welcome, hf

chilly wyvern
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I just realized the grimsnarl has 164 evs in attack and not defense

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Still performed good

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But should be even better now

orchid ibex
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first team i built tbh

queen willow
orchid ibex
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mainly just using it for storm drain switch ins

queen willow
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Yeah thats the issue

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The best water is wellspring who has stab 4x super effective horn leech on gastro and still threatens ttar and drill with horn leech too

orchid ibex
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how to counter then pweading . just dont use sand team?

queen willow
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Use a dragon and your own grass

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You dont need to redirect the hits

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Just switch into them

pale bison
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So, this team has more ground weaknesses than immunities, you probably want to run another flying or levitate mon, or run hhorsepower instead (tera flying ttar is good if u go that route). sand teams want some way to deal with rilla quickly as well since otherwise everything will get glided. id replace gastrodon with an ogerpon form or a bulky dragon. protect i also smth to put on your setup mon. excadrill for instance, doesnt need rock slide, just run sdance, both stabs, and protect

queen willow
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The only coverage id ever run on exca is x scissor

orchid ibex
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ok imma swap out Gastradon then. archaludon with a standard set good? or would ogerpon fit better for the coverage

queen willow
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Arch is fine, kommo is fine, raging bolt is fine

orchid ibex
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
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also note that grassy terrain halves earthquake damage

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but yeah I think having all 3 of orthworm exca ghold just isn't feasible here

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moreso on ghold + orth competing with each other

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you also definitely wanna fit stealth rock on the ttar

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imo, the sand part doesn't actually fit well at all with a defensive orthworm cress build

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ting lu + orthworm is just a better comp if you're leaning into that

grave citrus
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could someone help me get into ou singles

torpid moat
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I find sand is best if you lean offensively, running things like firepon and kommo

torpid moat
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this chat is for doubles ou

grave citrus
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ohh ok

slate fractal
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

slate fractal
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First team i made idk what to do with Hearthflame just feels weird but I want helping hand + a little damage output and the fire coverage is nice

crude flax
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Hey, can someone help me with something ?

scenic hamlet
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you can share what you need help with

crude flax
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Y'know, i cooked a team, just for fun, using red's team, of pokemon. It's not really serious. It's for doubles ou gen 5. Can i send the link and, i dunno, yu guys say what i have to work on to make it better. Wich is probably everything

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M' bad at this game

crude flax
crude flax
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Here, the pokepaste link

unborn marten
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none of these are viable in BW DOU

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there is nothing to make better here

scenic hamlet
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okay so you're aware what this team is right

unborn marten
scenic hamlet
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if you're here for competitive advice then the best we can give you is to start over and check some resources online

torpid moat
slate fractal
torpid moat
torpid moat
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or leave amoong alone ig

slate fractal
torpid moat
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scarf gapdos gives the most flexibility imo any of those options is fine

slate fractal
idle mason
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

idle mason
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Tried to remake my old TR team but idk what to put for the 6th slot

scenic hamlet
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azumarill is just not good at all

idle mason
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How come?

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Last time I used it, it was at least decent

scenic hamlet
idle mason
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Like...

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In February or April??

scenic hamlet
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alright well

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even in that time frame that pokemon is not considered good

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this entire metagame is revolved around priority blocking, water immunities, and powerful grass-types

idle mason
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In that case idk why people weren't suggesting that I shouldn't use Azu lmao

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But other than that are the other 4 decent?

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I feel weird putting P2 w/ Farigiraf

scenic hamlet
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p2 isn't really seen much either

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u want to diversify the profiles of ur trick room setters

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diancie is super good

scenic hamlet
idle mason
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In this channel

idle mason
scenic hamlet
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I'd suggest replacing Azumarill and Porygon2

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the last Pokemon can be any generic trick room sweeper

idle mason
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Alright

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Who should I switch them with?

scenic hamlet
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azumarill should be anything else, torkoal is nice trick room guy

idle mason
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Does Clefairy work on TR

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I mean it's slow

scenic hamlet
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hm

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doesn't really make great use of those turns

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you want pokemon that can really capitalize (and enable it to be setup)

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clefairy kinda just sits there and does nothing

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oh also farig doesnt need covert cloak its immune to fake out naturally

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can use goggles or throat spray

idle mason
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Lmao my bad

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Idk why I was worried about fake out

idle mason
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I threw Iron Hands onto the last slot because I had trouble finding another potential sweeper

dire flint
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Diancie doesn’t make great use of babiri berry another item such as hard stone or weakness policy would be more useful

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Your team also has a bit of a passivity problem one of sinistcha or farigirad could be replaced with another trick room sweeper

peak crypt
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Helping Hand on Farigiraf and Weakness Policy on Diancie could help a little too

idle mason
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

idle mason
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I decided to give diancie hard stone instead bc why not

rose juniper
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from my experience I would say that hardstone is the better item for diancie, while weakness policy is also for sure a good item for diancie

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hardstone is just overall better in most situations

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so if you prefer it I would keep it

idle mason
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Yeah that's what I was thinking

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Bc I never see it getting hit by super effective moves

torpid moat
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it's more like when it does, you either die or you should be tera-ing

torpid moat
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252/88/68 defense just gives you more overall bulk

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even for a mon like bolt with proportionally higher hp than defenses, if you're investing 400 evs you still want to do 252 hp first

slate fractal
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But I pull it late game to sweep

idle mason
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SE??

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Is that short for Super effective?

slate fractal
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Jus easier to type for me yea

idle mason
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Ohh okay

unkempt grove
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

unkempt grove
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coming from playing singles complete newb to doubles and want to make a webs team

dire flint
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Webs isn’t a viable strategy in doubles, so I wouldn’t recommend using it
Tailwind is a much more reliable form of speed control
Now if you’re set on using it I would recommend consulting the viability rankings and smogdex to see what Pokémon are best equipped to take advantage of webs
Your current team has 4 Pokemon that don’t seem to take much advantage of webs and a Chi Yu running a suboptimal set

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Personally I’d recommend looking into Chien Pao priority spam as that archetype matches up favorably into tailwind and has several mons that might enjoy sticky webs

unkempt grove
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i see that there is no sleep cause in doubles would a sleep spam team be viable at all?

unkempt grove
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i'll look into it

dire flint
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Most teams only have one Pokemon that can put things to sleep

unkempt grove
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righty

slate fractal
cyan patio
peak crypt
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Trick on Gholdengo over either coverage move and Snarl on Archaludon should both help with Trick Room

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Trick forces the TR setters to switch out and Snarl keeps some of the TR attackers from doing too much damage while you wait it out

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Explosion is also doing a whole zero damage on Regidrago, I'd consider Dragon Pulse instead (or Tera Blast and a corresponding Tera type maybe)

slate fractal
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https://pokepast.es/d0fe1a822a2b7fd5 thoughts on this team? What I might be able to change it’s strictly trick room based I’ve had one or two problems with imprison farig but it’s 50/50 if I can take it lmk if I can improve it

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

cyan patio
grizzled pumice
royal cobalt
unborn marten
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you can build snow without hard committing to 4/6 being ice types, that's just asking for trouble

alolatales and kyurem are solid enough, you could consider a setup focused kyurem team instead (dd clear amulet), or change it to specially oriented blizzard spam, maybe even baxcalibur since it has some really solid options in ice shard/glaive/hhp, etc. jirachi (tera water, probably), something for fake out like kangaskhan, and fill with whatever you want but I'd really recommend against building full snow/blizzard spam in the tier right now I don't think it's very good at all

royal cobalt
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And I read on smogon that you can build an ice team and then use stuff like lando to cover weaknesses

peak crypt
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“Can” and “Should” are two very different things

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Ice is still a poor defensive type and you really do not want four—you will struggle a lot against Stealth Rock and into Pokémon like Chi-Yu and Incineroar

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And while you can include more Pokémon to help cover these weaknesses, that doesn’t really solve the problems so much as make them slightly less bad

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Double battles are incredibly dynamic, and sometimes your Gholdengo answer or whatever will lose to the other Pokémon your opponent has next to it

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The only archetypes that can really get away with stacking types are Rain and Psyspam, because they can just click incredibly powerful Water and Psychic moves respectively and try to brute force their way past their bad matchups

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Snow doesn’t have that luxury

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(Sun can stack Fire types too, but with Paradoxes in the mix it usually prefers to diversify its teams now, and Grass spam is less about the actual terrain and more about the raw strength of Rillaboom and Ogerpon)

unborn marten
charred cloak
peak crypt
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Murkrow has long since been outclassed by Tornadus, but more importantly, this team kind of lacks meaningful damage

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and the triple support squad of Murkrow Sableye Gouging really doesn’t help matters

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This is probably salvageable if you switch to a standard Howl Gouging Fire, drop the Murkrow for Tornadus, and give up on the Sableye (maybe for Wellspring Ogerpon?)

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Garchomp is also not great but I feel like it’s the kind of Pokémon you only include because you really just want to use Garchomp, and I don’t want to have that fight right now

torpid moat
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agree with the above, chomp is very meh

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also eq is a big liability

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both because of hitting allies and getting halved by grassy terrain

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ting lu with stomping tantrum is usually just a better ground on a howl gouging team

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and yeah waterpon or chien pao would be easy adds over sableye, torn > murkrow always

latent lynx
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
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Looks OK, choice specs torkoal is a bit greedy, charcoal works fine

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Most builds run protect on lilligant and torkoal for fake out

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Or in situations where you can't click after you eruption

latent lynx
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anything else?

torpid moat
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it's very frail and usually doesn't help tr's bad matchups at all

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for example, it's another mon that loses to ghold on a team that already has diancie indeedee lilli

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since you already have a lilli, I think you could make a better team (though maybe different from your original vision) if hatt were cut for fast options like a firepon or walking wake

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or at least just a cresselia instead to get a ground immunity for lando and a truly reliable tr setter

latent lynx
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Ook

latent lynx
torpid moat
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I'm mainly telling you it's an option you should be aware of because I'm a hatt disliker

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oh scarf chi yu is another mon to try in that slot

latent lynx
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swag thanks man

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could speed crown work or nah

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actualky it wont ill just take what you have said thank you man

torpid moat
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speed crown is okay but I wouldn't put it on something this tr focused

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usually it wants some additional support like a waterpon or incin on top of indeedee

latent lynx
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isee thank you

maiden lodge
fathom girder
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Gen 9 DOU (PS I made this team like over a year ago)
https://pokepast.es/5553332c1a4ad097

Basically, turn 1, I Tailwind and Explosion with Murkrow and Garganical, killing both, and then Surf Weavile and Coalossol, then Flamigo comes in, yeah you should know where this team goes after that. Chien Pao is mostly just clean up crew

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
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this is the kind of team that's good against people who have never seen it before

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and immediately terrible against anybody who has

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there is no change that can really be made to this team that will make it win more, because this team has an incredibly low ceiling and you've more or less already hit it (the Weavile could be a Dragapult instead I suppose)

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what realistically happens when playing against an Incineroar is

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turn 1 they Fake Out the Garganacl, turn 2 they switch the Incineroar out while your Murkrow does nothing and Garganacl's Explosion barely even takes a KO if that; then later they just cycle the Incineroar around some more and now your Weakness Policy boost is just kind of gone and your team is full of terrible Pokemon and a Chien-Pao

fathom girder
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I am thinking about swapping Garganical for Metagross since clear body I feel is better than purifying salt since encountering intimidate is more common than will o whisp

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Im just not sure what my 4th move for meta would be (I got explosion, Meteor Mash, and Psychic fangs so far)

peak crypt
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either Bullet Punch or a coverage move

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Metagross is a much better Pokemon than Garganacl and including that already gives you a backup plan

fathom girder
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Yeah, Im just not sure which coverage move since metagross has a lot of coverage, like Brick Break, Thunder and Ice Punch, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Knock Off, and Shadow Claw. I'm running him to have more speed so I think bullet punch won't be as necessary.

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Also do you think I could swap Murkrow for Tornadus, since I know Torn is way better (since it can actually decent deal damage), but I just worry Torn is bulky enough to survive the explosion

unborn marten
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the problem is the core strategy itself

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to be very clear

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bulkless torn will survive a explosion though, yes

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if it gets intimidated

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which is your worst case (with garg)
if you switch to metagross, this could work

fathom girder
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Clear Body deals with the intimidate

unborn marten
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yeah, I see that, just catching up

fathom girder
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Although I guess the most problamatic part of this plan is swaping in Flamigo safely

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When Coal gets it's stat boost of course

unborn marten
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heavy slam/psyfangs/tantrum/explosion, I guess. normally I'd say ice punch, but you're giving part of your coverage up for explosion and have weavile and pao

torpid moat
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it's also quite well known that weavile, pult, or various ajet users are common coal activators

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so someone doesn't need to have seen your team specifically, they just need to have seen a few coal teams before

fathom girder
torpid moat
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nah they have to know that weav is a surf user

unborn marten
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a couple other things

  1. this strategy is significantly weaker without the presence of dynamax
  2. coalossal tends to work better as a special attacker (from my experience), consider something like power gem and heat wave
torpid moat
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yeah special coal is stronger

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but yeah the idea behind it was having +2 max coal

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which is also immune to fake out, as well as your pult

unborn marten
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also give it earth power and I would probably drop tera blast, probably for tera fire or ground, somethign that's still weak to water but reduces your weaknesses overall. sadly, it still doesn't outrun max speed ogerpon in tw with just steam engine with timid and max speed.

fathom girder
torpid moat
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a few of your set/tera choices are also a little weird, I don't think body press luna accomplishes much that sd 2 attacks wouldn't

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and to support a luna, you prob need pollen puff amoong > sludge bomb for the healing

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farig can run either nasty plot, helping hand with support, or throat spray

fathom girder
fathom girder
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Also I need you guys to rate my nicknames

maiden lodge
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Also the sludge bomb is for other grass types like rillaboom or ogerpon I see em everywhere but I’ll also try out pollen puff

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What could I swap on Luna tho over body press?

torpid moat
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for luna, try facade/earthquake/sd/protect

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with normal or ghost tera

winter gulch
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

winter gulch
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how can i improve? i’ve never played DOU and i kinda put pokémon i like together

brittle spade
winter gulch
shell arrow
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shell arrow
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I think that another Archaludon check is necessary but I don't know which mon to replace.

peak crypt
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There is genuinely only one change I would make here and that is giving Lando-T Sludge Bomb and Tera Poison

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This is already the top five Pokemon in the format plus one of the next best in Archaludon

torpid moat
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(sludge bomb over u turn)

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also consider still running bulk on your cb rilla

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if you still feel like you're having trouble with arch, switch to wisp incin

peak crypt
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Oh I didn’t even see the CB Rilla, I think you’d be better off with Assault Vest or Miracle Seed

shell arrow
torpid moat
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incin's mandatory moves are fake out and (parting/u turn)

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u turn is usually on AV sets

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but yeah flare blitz and knock are very cuttable

shell arrow
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Alright thanks

sage pier
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

dire flint
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There’s no reason to have indeedee on this team it interferes with all your priority moves and overwrites your grassy terrain

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You already have a redirector as well

keen summit
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
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volcanion, lando, and kyurem all really want true tailwind speed control

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otherwise they're just gonna die to everything fast, and your scarfers will get run over by an opposing torn team

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aside from that, I prob wouldn't run life orb on kyurem, that really takes away from its raw bulk

keen summit
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I like murdering incin but fair

torpid moat
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yeah gapdos -> torn is my main rec

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you also don't need heavy slam volcanion, that's to hit flutter which doesn't exist anymore

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that can be sludge bomb or overheat

keen summit
terse patio
brittle spade
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It'll be much more consistent in doubles

wide dragon
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

haughty sequoia
wide dragon
haughty sequoia
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what abt landorus?

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tornadus*

wide dragon
haughty sequoia
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alright

peak crypt
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Yeah I don’t think I’d really change anything here at a glance besides giving Pao Sash

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This team is made up of good Pokémon

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It might be a little difficult to use because most of your damage is loaded into two Pokémon and you win most of your games off of the utility Pokemon creating space

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You could swap Amoonguss to Wellspring Ogerpon; you’ll still get the benefits of redirection while adding an extra damage threat

torpid moat
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seconding the waterpon > amoong, you have rai dance torn already and amoong rilla comps are always awkward

haughty sequoia
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What should it’s Tera be

haughty sequoia
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Also should I switch sludge bomb for something else on landorus

haughty sequoia
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Additionally I’ve been dying to trick room teams

elder cobalt
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oh okay, its here!

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definitely not the greatest choices and it was originally made from planning out a battle in a more causal discord but I've had alot more success with this than I thought

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wait.

forgot we can send pokepaste links here

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

elder cobalt
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||also I forgot to fix some stuff from an old playstyle that I forgot in 5s, if you see that dreaded protect metagross band, ignore it. it was an accident ||

opaque yoke
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lol

dire flint
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I'd recommend checking out the dou viability rankings and trying out sample teams to get a better understanding of the metagame

elder cobalt
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Yeah, someone went “wtf” when they heard I was running poison heal Breloom in Ubers (I forgot why I was there. Beat a team and then lost lolz)

dire flint
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https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/

Smogon Forums
Resource - SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings

Art by Fangame10

Welcome to the Doubles OU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every month), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and...

Smogon Forums
Resource - Doubles OU Sample Teams

Art by GenOne

Welcome to the Sample Teams thread! This thread is meant to highlight the best of the best teams in the Doubles OU tier. Sample Teams are exemplary teams that have proven themselves to be good and are basic enough for beginners to use, allowing them to pick up the fundamentals of...

opaque yoke
#

can someone see if this is fine

haughty sequoia
#

Is archaludon good? I keep encountering it

opaque yoke
haughty sequoia
#

and one shotting it with earth power

dire flint
opaque yoke
elder cobalt
#

I do wanna say the purpose on that team was to not only get used to what’s prominent in the game again but see if my favorites can make it. So far, I’ve gotten really great moments (aside from some shadow ball moments. We…don’t talk about that)

dire flint
#

the rillaboom set is also unconventional, band can work on the correct team but I'm uncertain of whether it is strong on this oen

haughty sequoia
#

Or does that not count as one

elder cobalt
#

Is there?

haughty sequoia
#

#1024432517077540904

elder cobalt
#

So does that mean I shouldn’t share lackluster teams- ok

opaque yoke
dire flint
#

using your favorites isn't really an arbitrary rule

haughty sequoia
#

Oh alright

dire flint
elder cobalt
#

I don’t think the meta is wrong as it is right. I’ve had my fun seeing what all the top choices can do and vary from. Will explain later. Lemme shower

peak crypt
#

that particular rule also isn't quite as big a deal in this channel as it is in, say, the OU Rates channel

opaque yoke
#

let bro shower

peak crypt
#

where they get several rates a day and need a sign to point to that says "don't send us trash"

#

but we average less than a team a day over here

#

so we're a little more open to sitting down and going "here's what you can use that does the same as this Pokemon" for example

haughty sequoia
#

Especially trick room counters I need those

#

Girafarig trick room defeats my team most of the time

opaque yoke
#

just use tanks and put lots of protects on your team to stall tr out
Idk thats what i usually do

elder cobalt
peak crypt
#

the main way these aggressive teams answer TR is by using the team's big hitters together to just murder a Trick Room setter turn 1

#

like if you lead Chien-Pao Rillaboom into Farigiraf and just double target the thing, it will die

elder cobalt
elder cobalt
opaque yoke
elder cobalt
#

Had I used ANY other move like Hyper beam from porygon Z, I would have taken control of the fight

haughty sequoia
peak crypt
#

if that doesn't work, the game is about leveraging Incin and Rilla to stay alive and get damage in where you can, and use Protect and Follow Me on your other Pokemon to weather the high damage Trick Room teams can put out

opaque yoke
#

i fogor does follow me work against armor tail

elder cobalt
#

Mhm

peak crypt
#

you can't always stop the first Trick Room, but if you can withstand the first one, you can often keep the second from going up

#

it does

#

I think if you're really worried, Taunt Landorus isn't that bad

#

I don't think it's as good as other options, and you might find yourself dropping it as you learn to play against TR

opaque yoke
peak crypt
#

you have Pelipper and Rain Dance Tornadus, that's almost more than enough

elder cobalt
#

Also is it okay if I start talking about my team again? Trying to figure out more neutral options but will try out the advice there to understand more about what I will face (and can use around here)

#

but its also to poke out more underrated ones for a really fun battle

peak crypt
#

I'm personally not a fan of Protect on Archaludon though; I think it has a lot of good moves and Assault Vest is just so good on it that it's worth skipping Protect

opaque yoke
peak crypt
#

yeah hence the "almost"

opaque yoke
#

mhm

opaque yoke
peak crypt
#

the item is very, very good

opaque yoke
#

Ik

peak crypt
#

especially in formats where you just might want to survive two attacks in a turn

elder cobalt
#

Oh yeah assault vest is good.

#

(I mean obvs but still)

#

did not expect it to be that great =o

opaque yoke
#

yh i always knew it was good but preferred other items

peak crypt
#

there have been a couple points in this generation where running triple Assault Vest was good

wide dragon
#

rilla, arch, and hands all love AV

#

it’s really good hash

opaque yoke
wide dragon
#

lol

unique lantern
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

unique lantern
#

very old team

#

been struggling in ladder, used to be a lot chiller

#

cress used to be safety goggles but theres like no amoongusses for some reason

peak crypt
#

Cress and Volcanion have kind of fallen to the wayside now that we have stuff like Incineroar and Raging Bolt

unique lantern
#

what TR setters are common?

#

and dont say indeedee

peak crypt
#

Sinistcha is really the only other big setter (besides Hatt but Hatt sucks)

unique lantern
#

how is sinicha better than cress when sinistcha is double weak to incineroar though?

peak crypt
#

but with Dragonite, Pao, and Kingambit I genuinely don’t think you want or need Trick Room on this team

unique lantern
#

its supposed to be a soft TR where I can manage without TR but do better under it

peak crypt
#

Sinistcha has a bit more board presence and has better matchups into stuff like Rillaboom and Ogerpon, and can protect things with Rage Powder

#

and Hospitality rules

unique lantern
#

i feel like ally switch also does rage powder's job to a degree but yeah i can see hospitality being good

#

i also just really hate sinistcha's design but yeah it does sound better sadly

#

it's such an ugly ass pokemon compared to it's beautiful preevolution

peak crypt
#

Personally I think if I’m keeping the “core” of Dragonite Pao Gambit Hands, I think I want Rillaboom and Glimmora in the last couple slots

unique lantern
#

glimmora is a new one

peak crypt
#

Rilla lets you properly compete with Psychic Terrain and does a lot of damage to Farigiraf, and Glimmora is just a strong special attacker that’s hard to attack into

unique lantern
#

i can see rillaboom being effectively just a way to get rid of indeedee's terrain and do some damage while youre there

#

i feel like changing those two makes the team entirely different

#

that'd just make it way more offensive would it not?

peak crypt
#

Yes, but the priority spam archetype is already inherently offensive

unique lantern
#

that is fair

peak crypt
#

and Rillaboom slots in really well

unique lantern
#

rillaboom i can see

#

but i feel like i need some other special attacker other than glimmora

#

like ill add glimmora instead of volcanion but i have 5 physical attackers and 1 special if that is

peak crypt
#

Glimmora is kind of just a sixth Pokémon that means you don’t auto lose to Iron Defense stuff

#

Cresselia hardly counts as a special attacker because it does 3 damage

unique lantern
#

well its not a special attacker at all, i have no attacks on it at all, but it servers a purpose other than damage

peak crypt
#

You could shuffle a little more and run Rilla, Lando-I instead of Glimm, and AV Raging Bolt over Iron Hands

unique lantern
#

alright well suppose i go with the rilla glimmora thing

#

how do i adjust my evs?

#

do i go max speed on the usual trickroom mons? no speed?

peak crypt
#

You just make Dragonite Adamant and don’t change anything else

unique lantern
#

uhh idk if u noticed my current evs

#

theyre kind of a mess

#

also, am i going insane? wheres the button to add pokemon

image.png
peak crypt
#

I mean they’re not really a mess

#

You just have speed creep on Gambit and Hands

unique lantern
#

yeah thats there so they can attack after cresselia would lunar blessing their burn

peak crypt
#

People still do that—if anything there’s more reason to run some speed on Hands now that Incin is around

unique lantern
#

so just keep the extra speed on the stuff i have?

peak crypt
#

I’d recommend not making them the exact same speed though just so you can plan out turns better; having your own Pokémon speed tie can sometimes be annoying

unique lantern
#

oh yeah thats true

#

do i go 31 speed iv on dnite?

peak crypt
#

Yeah

#

You’re spending most of your time clicking Extreme Speed so Dragonite’s Speed isn’t super important

unique lantern
#

that's true

#

i will put a single ev into speed just in case

peak crypt
#

based

unique lantern
#

assault vest on rillaboom?

#

also does this tier have duplicate item clause if that's the case

peak crypt
#

There is no Item Clause here

#

You can run six Assault Vest if you really want

#

I wouldn’t

unique lantern
peak crypt
#

Yeah exactly that

unique lantern
#

i also feel like there should definitely be a specific level of speed i should reach cause rn my speed evs on gambit and iron hands are sorta random

peak crypt
#

Try giving Hands enough speed to outrun 4 Speed Incineroar

unique lantern
#

its exactly there rn

#

coincidentally

peak crypt
#

and probably just move Kingambit’s Speed down to 0

#

You don’t really gain anything from outrunning Incin and there’s not much else to outrun in that speed bracket

unique lantern
peak crypt
#

Just 31 IV Adamant

unique lantern
#

this is the final team then

peak crypt
#

that should be a lot better equipped to handle the current format

unique lantern
#

thats great

peak crypt
#

if it doesn’t work you can come back and yell at me

unique lantern
#

though honestly iron hands has been feelin a lot weaker than he used to be not gonna lie

#

i'll try this for now but what would be the alternatives for it?

#

bolt?

peak crypt
#

Yeah Bolt is the easy slot over Hands

unique lantern
#

does it get any fighting options or do i just substitute fighting with dragon entirely?

#

also ive almost never used espeed on dnite honestly

#

its always outrage or equake

peak crypt
#

You just substitute Fighting entirely with Dragon yeah

#

Oh you should drop Earthquake if you have Rilla

#

and Ice Spinner

#

for Stomping Tantrum and Icicle Crash

#

Earthquake gets weaker in Grassy Terrain and Spinner will just remove your terrain

unique lantern
#

yeah im not changing ice spinner

#

100% accuracy over some power anyday

peak crypt
#

Icicle Crash genuinely wins more games

unique lantern
#

it also makes me want to pull my hair out when it misses so the dopamine cancels out

peak crypt
#

Like no joke the winrate of every single Ice type went up in randbats when Ice Spinner was changed to Icicle Crash

#

every single one

#

and obviously Rilla really benefits from its own terrain but Hands/Bolt get a lot of benefit from it too

#

Both of those Pokémon like to sit on the board and soak hits and the extra healing goes a long way

unique lantern
#

yeah thats pretty fair

#

i still wanna do something about espeed though, genuinely dont think theres ever been a case where espeed was better than outrage in the last 20 games ive played

peak crypt
#

There’s not really anything I can tell you there besides “click Extreme Speed more”

#

Tera Normal ESpeed is the move that makes Dragonite good

unique lantern
#

no i mean that espeed hasnt ever been the better play

#

dragonite is just an insanely tanky band outrager in my eyes cause of multiscale

peak crypt
#

Oh

#

There’s the issue

#

It’s supposed to be Inner Focus

#

Inner Focus makes you immune to flinches (like Fake Out) and to Intimidate

unique lantern
#

oh what

peak crypt
#

Yup

unique lantern
#

no thats lame multiscale has won me so many games lol

peak crypt
#

Inner Focus demands so much more respect

#

As soon as someone figures out you’re Multiscale, Incineroar makes your life hell

#

Even with Gambit on the team

unique lantern
#

lol i just had the funniest game with this team

#

played it awfully but i love it when someone says gg early then loses

unique lantern
peak crypt
#

the good ol’ offensive gg

#

you will run into more as you climb

unique lantern
#

i mean 1500 isnt that low is it

#

i think i got to 1600 at some point with the older team, before the dlc and everythin

#

glimmora is really really nice though, def a great addition

peak crypt
#

the difference in team quality at 1500 and 1600 is really dramatic

unique lantern
#

thats fiar

#

im gonna just keep going with this, i swapped eq for stomping and ice spinner for icicle crash (not sure ill like the latter)

wide dragon
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

dire flint
#

the ogerpon-wellspring should be 252 hp outside of a few edge cases you should always max out hp before investing in defenses

#

I would say the same for kingambit unless the 128 defense is letting it hit some crazy calc that 252 hp does not achieve

wide dragon
#

thanks

haughty sequoia
torpid moat
#

consider horn leech waterpon still over glide

wide dragon
hazy ingot
#

Ello

#

I'm new to doubles but like making my own teams and this is what I have so far: https://pokepast.es/a7256382e78889da
I've gotten to 1235 (I know it aint a lot) but I havn't played enough to get it further

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

dire flint
#

I’d recommend using this set instead

#

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon @ Life Orb

Ability: Mind's Eye

Tera Type: Normal

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Modest Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

  • Blood Moon

  • Hyper Voice

  • Earth Power

  • Protect

brittle spade
#

(silk scarf instead of life orb)
(sincerely)
(_life orb hater gang)

hazy ingot
brittle spade
#

Walking wake could be iron hands if you're struggling into trick room teams

hazy ingot
#

but I'll keep it in mind if it becomes a problem

torpid moat
#

prankster taunt does very little to help against legit tr, psychic terrain or redirection completely blocks

#

though having luna and ghold helps a lot

spice shoal
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
#

aside from that, arma gimmick itself is kinda mediocre, same for sneasler, using just indeedee + booster energy iron crown is a lot more reliable

spice shoal
torpid moat
#

make sure you add checks to opposing incin/chi yu

prime canyon
#

plz rateee

image.png
dire flint
prime canyon
#

Yeah, this is a team I used for ubers I originally sent this to that channel but the op sent me here 😭

#

disregarding the banned mons, how is it?

torpid moat
prime canyon
#

I was thinking how the weather effects do interfere with each other

torpid moat
#

you're also effectively running 1 attack rilla, which is a really bad idea

prime canyon
#

what should I run with Rillaboom?

torpid moat
#

because grass is easily walled and the support rilla sets want u turn/coverage to switch more often

prime canyon
#

makes sense

torpid moat
#

try standard fake out/glide/wood hammer/u turn

#

with assault vest

prime canyon
#

I think I will swap Pelipper with someone who can use trick room as well, this should give torkoal the potential to sweep with eruption, no?

torpid moat
#

are you still planning on using this in doubles ou, or are you trying to play doubles ubers or some other format?

#

I can't really give advice if I don't know what's happening to the urshi or flutter

#

it is also incorrect to have urshi and torkoal together, and it is incorrect to have pelipper with no other water/archaludon

haughty sequoia
#

I often use landorus and tornadus as leads but is that a good idea

loud prism
#

Is my team good

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

loud prism
#

Im really new so this is the best team i could do

torpid moat
loud prism
#

Oh

torpid moat
#

also, weakness policy scizor doesn't make sense, its only weakness is fire, which it instantly dies to

loud prism
#

Oh i switched to focus shash

torpid moat
#

and tyranitar's sand will break your pao's sash

loud prism
#

Oh

#

Man

torpid moat
#

there are better options for steels and grounds out there

loud prism
#

Oh

#

Do you have any tips on how to make a team around any pokemon

torpid moat
#

landorus-i is better than garchomp as a fast attacker (nonscarf, and probably scarf as well)

#

or you can use landorus-t for intimidate and u turn as a scarfer, or ting lu for bulkier options

brittle spade
#

That's the gist

#

Like mamoswine, who is exclusively good into incineroar rillaboom and landorus

#

Don't pick mons that are too bad or they might just lose to everything

#

Like weezing-galar

loud prism
#

Thanks

#

Now my garchomp can see some use

#

May the dragon shark thing reign again

brittle spade
#

The problem with garchomp is that it's heavily outclassed by landorus

#

Which does the same things but better

#

The one thing you could use it for it that it doesn't die to ogerpon and is faster than landorus

brittle spade
#

You could also skip taunt and run sandsear storm on landorus

#

You don't really have setup or mons with substitute so I'd skip follow me on ogerpon and run taunt or encore

loud prism
brittle spade
brittle spade
loud prism
#

Oh

#

Ok

brittle spade
#

Landorus I is a huge threat in the meta

#

And to your team

torpid moat
#

(as a special attacker)

#

in general, unless you've got some extra edge, being a special attacker is better to avoid intimidate

#

so landorus i gets that innately too on top of sheer force

#

while a lot of great physical attackers ignore intimidate, like kingambit, diancie, dragonite

torpid moat
#

it's not good to have set leads, lando + noncloak torn is really bad into fake out leads, but may be good into another offensive lead

#

where lando can threaten a kill

#

in general though you can't go wrong with running fake out + lando as a lead

haughty sequoia
#

hm alright

#

also im looking to replace rillaboom, is something like dragonite fine?

#

or ting-lu

torpid moat
#

and diancie and sand and glimm (rocks)

#

and regardless of that your incin should have 252 hp no matter what

#

investing in hp is more efficient than investing in defenses

haughty sequoia
#

yessir

torpid moat
#

but yeah I think rilla is better than dnite here

#

you would need to make multiple switches to cut rilla

#

like maybe cutting torn as well

#

you can try running u turn over horsepower rilla as well

haughty sequoia
#

how about gholdengo?

torpid moat
#

ghold is fine, it still keeps decent snow/sand/diancie matchup

#

and it has support from fm waterpon plus torn

#

by the way, if you're going to run 252 spe torn, make it timid

#

that way it will actually outspeed opposing waterpon

#

Gholdengo @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 16 SpA / 68 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Make It Rain
  • Shadow Ball
  • Nasty Plot
  • Protect
#

this is fat np ghold, I think it fits reasonably well here

#

also consider cutting rain dance on torn for like taunt, or even tera blast

haughty sequoia
#

oh alright

#

didnt expect bulky ghold, i just invested max speed and sp atk

brave sapphire
fringe topaz
#

@rustic badge

rustic badge
#

Here

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rustic badge
torpid moat
rustic badge
torpid moat
#

also, tera grass or flying are considered better ttar teras, they let it tank water + grass + ground or fighting + grass + ground

#

weakness policy

rustic badge
#

I see

#

Any other comments on my team?

torpid moat
#

weakness policy would only really be relevant when you took a hit and retaliated

#

yeah I'm still going

rustic badge
#

Present him as a threat

torpid moat
#

it's generally preferred to run sitrus berry or rocky helmet on amoong, leftovers is less efficient in doubles when it doesn't spend as many turns on the field

#

yeah I'm actually okay with wp tyranitar, but it's better if after it takes that hit it will have some way of moving first later on

#

usually via trick room

#

so you can take full advantage of the boost

#

otherwise, you take 1 hit and retaliate harder, and then ttar usually dies the next turn without getting to attack again

rustic badge
#

I see, but thats why Amonguss has rage powder

#

Although, I can see the problem once Monguss I knocked out

torpid moat
#

I guess that's true, but yeah relying on redirection being there is a bit of an idealized scenario

#

if you want wp, keep it

#

other change was that you should run knock off over lariat incin

#

knock is just so good

rustic badge
#

I mean, Amonguss has tanked several super effective moves at this point leaving him at 70%

torpid moat
#

I know what amoonguss does, the problem is positioning it in, especially without protect

rustic badge
torpid moat
#

speaking of that, you should consider a set of knock off/rock slide/stealth rock/protect for ttar

rustic badge
torpid moat
#

anyways most important suggest I had was to run kommo instead of dnite if you want a setup dragon

#

there are 3 different sets, physical clang, special clang, iron defense body press

#

physical runs clear amulet clangorous soul/drain punch/fire punch/protect

#

special runs throat spray clangorous soul/clanging scales/flamethrower/protect

#

last runs leftovers iron defense/body press/filler move/protect

#

all with steel tera and overcoat

#

I would go special here, but there is an argument for the others if you want it

#

oh and fire tera is also an option

rustic badge
#

I see

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

prisma void
#

A snow team

#

Wait why do I have loaded dice

#

Alr

brittle spade
#

zoroark is sash because it dies if you speak too loudly next to it

prisma void
#

Kyruem bax is bad?

#

Damn

brittle spade
#

you're staking weaknesses together

#

kyurem wants partners that'll kill gholdengo

prisma void
#

I wanna use bax rather than kyruem then

prisma void
brittle spade
#

and use the premade smogon sets you can import on pokemonshowdow

prisma void
#

Call me dumb but I can't find it ;-;

#

@brittle spade

brittle spade
#

when you chose your pokemon's moves there's a tab called import export

#

click on it

brittle spade
prisma void
brittle spade
#

just click the thing that says dragon dance for example

#

for bax you can use the set i sent, it's good

#

scale shot swords dance needs max speed

prisma void
brittle spade
#

i told you baxcalibur needs max speed

#

and scale shot

#

oh youre running dd

prisma void
#

Yeh

brittle spade
#

my bad

#

Baxcalibur @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

  • Icicle Spear
  • Scale Shot
  • Swords Dance
  • Protect
#

you want this

prisma void
#

Alr

brittle spade
#

Baxcalibur @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

  • Icicle Crash
  • High Horsepower
  • Dragon Dance
  • Protect
#

or this

#

also on this particular team you want scarf landorus

#

Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

  • Earth Power
  • Sludge Bomb
  • Sandsear Storm
  • Focus Blast
#

and your team should be ok now

#

gl

#

@prisma void

prisma void
#

Alr thanks

#

Yea so my first match idk what the hail he was doing but he had a dancer aundio and quiver dance which got swept away by Bax swords + scaleshot

brittle spade
#

yeah, now that you're running a good team you're gonna crush a lot of the ladder bullshit

prisma void
#

Yo damn I'm cooking with this team got to 1400 from 1000

prisma void
#

@brittle spade yea so in a vs a sun team I shouldnt get in with my alolaon tails right?

brittle spade
#

If you're facing a trick room torkoal team you can lead ninetales landorus and try to either catch the torkoal switching in or get veil up

#

If you're facing drought ninetales you don't lead ninetales

#

If you're facing weather move torn you either lead ninetales and click blizzard or lead something else

#

@prisma void

prisma void
#

What about sun torkoal paradox moms

#

Like walking wake

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With torkaol

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@brittle spade

brittle spade
prisma void
#

Alr ty

#

The sun's team are the only teams beating me

#

With paradox mon

brittle spade
#

It's not the easiest matchup but it's winnable if you position properly

prisma void
left trench
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

left trench
#

sun team

prisma void
left trench
#

fr

torpid moat
left trench
#

god my thing is horrible

#

i didnt mean to put calm mind there

#

swap that for weather ball

#

imma go test the team now

torpid moat
#

other things would be that venusaur's only niche is a sleep powder mon, but hisui lilligant is better than it in almost every way

#

but venu and lilli absolutely shouldn't be running leftovers

left trench
#

lens?

#

and sleep powder?

torpid moat
#

try covert cloak for fake out or focus sash

#

oh lens sleep powder + leaf storm can work too in venu's case, but again lilli is just better

left trench
#

woudl amoogus, spore pollen puff set work

torpid moat
#

given your name I imagine you're not willing to cut zard

left trench
#

nah

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zard itself is fringe

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only xard

torpid moat
#

oh then in that case zard sucks, chi yu is better in every way

left trench
#

vbut i saw it was quiet meta in early SwSh ou

left trench
#

and idk how to build chi yo

#

i assume heatwave, prot, nasty plot?

torpid moat
#

nah just try plain specs or scarf

left trench
#

both are taken

#

in my case

torpid moat
#

dou doesn't have item clause

left trench
#

scarf lando T

left trench
torpid moat
#

you could run 6 scarfs if you wanted

left trench
#

oh

#

alr

torpid moat
#

but also the other thing I was gonna say was that you lack speed control

left trench
#

so fireblast, heatwave

torpid moat
#

and you're too reliant on sun

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usually scarf does heat wave overheat dark pulse snarl

#

maybe tera blast over something

left trench
#

i could drop lilligant for thorn or whimscott?

#

@torpid moat

torpid moat
#

yeah try torn then

#

that actually makes everything else a lot simpler

#

you can even justify cutting torkoal too and running sunny day torn

left trench
#

standard focus sash set right?

torpid moat
#

I'd go with standard covert cloak set

left trench
#

do i run sunny day?

#

or taunt

torpid moat
#

depends if you want torkoal or not

left trench
#

question is if i run sunny day i could still run torkoal

torpid moat
#

you could yes

#

but taunt would probably be more useful if you already had torkoal

left trench
#

should i drop torkoal for amoogus?

torpid moat
#

no

#

amoong is bad on sun, it usually just stacks weaknesses

left trench
#

even with tera water?

torpid moat
#

it's more like

#

you would rather use indeedee on sun, or ogerpon hearthflame

left trench
#

does lens sleep powder lilligant work?

torpid moat
#

if you wanted to use amoong with torkoal it would be for using semiroom

#

but it would be difficult to fit all the slots in, and in the end indeedee or farigiraf or diancie or something would be a better teamcomp

#

so I'll tell you that overreliance on sun is not good

#

just because you're a sun team, not every mon has to directly synergize with sun

#

I was trying to lower the amount of sun dependency you have

#

if you have torn, you don't need lilli at all

left trench
#

so do i make a 2 mode team

#

for trick room and sun?

#

with like indeedee hatereen bloodmoon amoogus torkoal chi yu?

#

team ive build so far

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@torpid moat

prisma void
#

Sun team be my no 1 opps

prisma void
#

@brittle spade remember the team u gave me with bax aninetials

#

So is DD clear ameult set fit with it cause incerior keeps ruining my setup with intimidate

brittle spade
torpid moat
#

at least as a base

#

as for your current team, try fairy tera chi yu if you want to be tera

#

it's not mandatory though, fire or ghost tera is perfectly viable

#

hisui lilli is a physical attacker

prisma void
torpid moat
#

it gets like close combat and solar blade, or after you

#

also av bolt should be running snarl or electroweb or volt switch over weather ball

#

lando t could be regular lando i now too

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make sure your wake is speed proto

prisma void
#

@brittle spade trick room and tailwinds are starting to counter me now ;-;

#

In a tailwind I can't make use of speed buff bax

brittle spade
prisma void
#

Alr

prisma void
#

?

brittle spade
prisma void
#

;-;

peak crypt
#

beating Terracott mostly comes down to recognizing it in team preview and knowing how you lead into it

#

You generally just cannot give them free turns in the early game

#

so don’t lead with your setup stuff etc

#

you gotta just hit them

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Gholdengo is a pretty good lead into Terracott because it resists Rock and is immune to Fighting

#

you could try leading Gholdengo Ninetales and get Aurora Veil up before hitting them with Gho

prisma void
#

That was my first time encountring ut

#

It

peak crypt
#

You could also go Landorus Ninetales

#

+6 252 Atk Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus with an ally's Aurora Veil: 265-312 (83 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

prisma void
#

I would say element of suprise made me panic

#

I didn't even knew psychic terrain made priority not work

peak crypt
#

a lot of Terracott stuff will be double Cloak but you can still use Rillaboom and Incineroar to bring its Attack down a little and keep Earthquake damage down (if the Terrak has EQ)

#

well now you know that part

prisma void
peak crypt
#

Grassy Glide isn’t even a priority move unless Grassy Terrain is active

prisma void
#

I think I need to change my team

#

The higher I go more people counter ut

#

It

peak crypt
#

Changing your team infinitely isn’t going to help you

prisma void
#

No it's actually first time

peak crypt
#

There’s no team that will send you to the top of the ladder on its own

#

Play with what you have and learn about the other Pokémon in the format

prisma void
#

This is what I use rn

peak crypt
#

It seems like there’s a lot of things you currently just don’t know about the game, and a new team isn’t going to help you learn

prisma void
#

This just doesn't work against sun teams (might just be me)

peak crypt
#

Baxcalibur is missing four EVs but beyond that this team is very good

prisma void
#

I mean I can beat most people but only sun teams they bother me

peak crypt
#

And the sun matchup isn’t even that difficult if you understand what you need to do

#

You never want to lead Ninetales against other weather teams for example

prisma void
#

Can u gimme a quick summarise on what to do

#

Agaisnt sun teams

#

Btw that sucine paradox outspeeds my lando scarf with sun

peak crypt
#

It really depends on the structure but you’re almost always leading Incineroar

#

Take advantage of the defensive Tera types you have on Rillaboom and Gholdengo to withstand Fire attacks and use U-turn and Parting Shot to get Ninetales in safely later

#

you can also click Tera Poison on Baxcalibur to eat a Draco from Walking Wake and just murder it with Glaive Rush

#

you’ve got plenty of options

#

you just need the experience to know when and how to use them

#

it’s not an easy matchup, but there is no team with all easy matchups

prisma void
#

Alr thanks

#

Earlier I was in a condition with a lando Vs sucine paradox and chi yu

#

But that guy just outspeed my scarf

#

@peak crypt any sets that need change there?

peak crypt
#

No

prisma void
#

Alr thanks

peak crypt
#

Keep using this team and learning the format

#

Losing is okay

prisma void
#

Alr

#

Imma adapt

torpid moat
#

make sure to brush up on mechanics too, like the secondary effects of terrain, spread move damage reduction

#

have an idea of how much damage any given move will do before it actually happens

#

learn your speed tiers ahead of time so you don't get surprised by getting outsped

dry roost
#

I put corviknight on as its typing helps it set up on many offensive mons like landorus and choice locked dragonite and scrafty is similar to incineroar with fake out, knock off, great bulk, and intimidate but it can use coaching to give my mons more power

#

i am having issues with glimmora offense tho

brittle spade
#

This is funny so I might steal your idea

brittle spade
#

And flexible too you can pretty much replace the glimmora with virtually anything

#

Even take off taunt on corv for roost, run leftovers or safety googles on something

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Or put taunt on scrafty instead

#

Max speed scrafty means you get the coaching off before Dragonite or corv attacks

#

You could replace scrafty too by pollen puff coaching mew, which would go well with taunt corv

#

Also curse sucks on corviknight, run bulk up

#

Even if you're doing this for trick room you already have ting lu which is a death sentence for fullroom builds

#

There isn't one correct build for this, you'll have to try a bunch of stuff

dry roost
#

k thx

dry roost
#

my issue with mew is that it doesnt get intimidate and it is vulnerable to knock off, sucker punch, and u-turn.

#

also corviknight is already not outspeeding much so i put curse instead of bulk up to underspeed the base 50 crowd in tr

#

since im clicking e-speed most of the time with dragonite, speed investment wouldnt do anything for scrafty and it can already coaching corv before it attacks

prisma void
#

I just stumbled onto a comfey primirinia trickroom hyper voice helping hand

brittle spade
brittle spade
brittle spade
#

There are also times where your dragonite isn't clicking espeed

brittle spade
dry roost
dry roost
dry roost
#

But mew cannot exert fake out pressure

brittle spade
#

Look, these are suggestions about how you can improve your plays and your teams. If you're worried about the fact mew cant fake out pressure or that you're losing to physical attack mons then run drain punch iron hands next to it and put willowisp on your mew

#

Or if you don't have enough faith in yourself to position properly then skip mew and just run scrafty

brittle spade
#

You want to coach your target before these attack

dry roost
brittle spade
dry roost
#

K thx imma fool around with the mew set for a bit

dry roost
brittle spade
dry roost
#

Ah oki

dry roost
brittle spade
dry roost
#

Srry didn’t know the context

brittle spade
#

It's fine just keep in mind the raters here will suggest sets and teams as they are played in tours, which may differ from what you would usually see on ladder

dry roost
#

Ah thx man

prisma void
#

Tried to cook up a team

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

tardy ember
#

Hiii

#

It looks like you're trying to build around a sun team, here are some things about it:

prisma void
#

Trynna do things with eruption and trickroom

tardy ember
#

Walking wake makes better use of items like LO and dedicating it's booster to speed. If you want to run scarf to catch your opponent off guard, I'd advise you to make it boost SpA (in other words, adjusting EVs so that SpA>Spe)

For a sunsemiroom, you want to complement your sun abusers (rn torkoal and wake). Incineroar doesn't achieve much here, Pokemon like Chi-yu and Ogerpon-Hearthflame provide much more value as a 2nd fire-type.

Rillaboom is cool because it covers fire's weaknesseses (namely water)

Gholdengo is a bit off too, on a more offensive oriented style, it takes a lot of time to find a good setup opportunity and staying on the field providing value

#

For Cresselia, it does its job; however, you can also try other pokemon that provide more offensive value

prisma void
#

Alr

#

Thanks

#

I mainly got rilaboom for ogerpon water varaint

trail island
#

Can someone rate my dumb team?

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
#

Cobalion sucks but the rest of those are real Pokemon

#

walk us through the team though

#

why did you choose those Pokemon? what's the general goal?

trail island
#

Magmar’s just bulky Follow Me support. (I just wanted a Fire-Type that wasn’t Ogerpon Heartflame.) Landorus and Primarina are specially offensive, Farigiraf is just kinda there for Armor Tail and Helping Hand. Amoonguss disrupts with Spore. I just wanted a fast and kinda bulky Fighting-Type, and Cobalion was decent, so I thought it would be funny to use it, and just slapped Taunt onto it to counter some Trick Room.

peak crypt
#

so this team is already on the slow end

#

I think you'd get a lot more out of just running an Iron Hands over Cobalion and slapping Trick Room on Farig

#

I'd also recommend trying out Hisuian Arcanine over Magmar and moving redirection onto your Amoonguss

trail island
#

Oh, yeah. I have a huge weakness to Flying-Types. It’s just that there aren’t a lot of offensive Flying-Types in the current meta.

#

Thanks for the tips!

peak crypt
#

there is one very important Flying-type and it is called Tornadus

#

Landorus and Dragonite are fake Flying-types but they technically count

trail island
#

But Landorus and Dragonite don’t really use Flying-Type attacks. And Tornadus usually focuses on support with Tailwind, Sunny Day, Rain Dance, and Taunt.

#

So I forgot about it.

sonic rock
#

Can someone look over my team https://pokepast.es/f9e2f35c6c5c2b51? I'm trying to make a trick room centered around guts flame orb Ursuluna and im struggling on my 5th team member, i also want some help on ivs

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

sonic rock
#

also looking for a 6th mon

torpid moat
#

trick room is an inherently hyper-offensive archetype, the garganacl may be a little out of place because it's too passive

#

you also don't have any disruption to aid a tr set

#

the main question is whether you want 2+ tr setters (fully commit to tr) or just 1 (build semiroom)

sonic rock
#

Hmm ok I'm a bit worried about flying types that's why I have the gargancl any other good types for that? I like the sinisistcha idea though might run it

#

Other than the replacing the 5th mon

#

I'll look into disruption mons for my 6th slot as well

#

Thank you

torpid moat
#

you need cut several things to fit what you need here

#

good disruption choices are fake out from incineroar, iron hands, rillaboom

#

diancie is a potential choice as third tr setter, but if you bring it here you have to be very careful of gholdengo and lando-i matchup

#

diancie would be the offensive version of garg btw

#

but hands is just as good at killing birds

#

luna/hands/farig/sinistcha/incin would be an alright 6, maybe waterpon or chien-pao goes last

sonic rock
#

I was just considering chien poa

#

Just was waiting for you to finish talking I quiet like sinistcha here with chien pao

torpid moat
#

be careful of chi yu with that comp

sonic rock
#

Yes that was my main concern

torpid moat
#

also opposing incin is really annoying

#

which is why waterpon is the more balanced choice

#

hands should either be assault vest or sd clear amulet

#

av runs fake out/cc/wild charge/ice punch

#

clam runs fake out/drain punch/ice punch/sd

#

grass, dragon, or fire tera

sonic rock
#

Thank you I will try to apply this into my team and see what feels right probably gonna go for the riskier set with chien pao thank you for all the help

sonic rock
#

(also sorry if I seemed rude or passive aggressive this is very very helpful resource 🙂 thank you)

torpid moat
#

you're good, feel free to ask here if you need any more help

prisma void
#

My attempt for a full trickroom team

jovial burrow
jovial burrow
# prisma void My attempt for a full trickroom team

Checked out your team, just noticed a few things, dark type terra cresselia is kinda ass, I guess you are trying to use it to block prankster taunt but a mental herb is simply so much better as you generally only need to set up trick room once for ursaluna. Also use moonblast instead of psychic, and try terra fairy as well. Too many dark types like chien pao, chi-yu, urshifu-ss and the special attack drops help soften incoming attacks. Also for ursaluna, no need to have headlong rush and eq in the same moveset. Eq is fine. Also dont use headlong rush for single target, use high horse power instead, ursaluna relies on its bulk alot and hates defense drops, for the third slot i recommend rock slide for the genies, dragonite (pre terra) incin and other mons.

peak crypt
#

please don't post regular form Shaymin and then comment on other people's teams

#

oh that's DPP

#

statement mostly stands

#

Cress really needs Goggles because you lose to Amoonguss without them

#

and if you're already immune to Spore you should probably be Psychic

#

there are no actual Bug types in DOU but Tornadus is arguably the best Pokemon in the format so Prankster Taunt immunity actually matters a lot

#

Headlong Rush + Earthquake is pretty standard because Normal Ground misses almost nothing anyway, and the things that you miss are pretty terrible anyway, so doubling up on STAB means you have a spread move to spam next to Cresselia and a strong single target move for when EQ won't take a KO (or when your opponent has Rillaboom)

#

High Horsepower sucks, do not use it

#

Rock Slide also sucks on Ursaluna, do not use it; Facade does more damage to everything weak to Rock

peak crypt
# prisma void https://pokepast.es/ce33b0f66d4840bb

please ignore everything above this message

I think the one thing that stands out for a potential replacement is Volcanion; since you already have Cress, I think you should consider swapping out the Sinistcha and Volcanion for Diancie and Amoonguss. Diancie is a slightly more offensive Trick Room setter that patches up a minor Intimidate weakness, and Amoonguss is just Amoonguss, that Pokemon is literally always good (and can run Pollen Puff to double up on healing if you want).

peak crypt
# jovial burrow https://pokepast.es/a71fe3ed32e08a96 please rate thanks

please read all of the above messages

Tailwind generally doesn't get used in DPP because it's a turn shorter than in BW-on, and most players just haven't found it worth the effort to use compared to Thunder Wave. You also only have one Protect in an Explosion meta. I'm not all that well versed in DPP but I'd really consider dropping Heat Wave and Tailwind on Zap for Thunder Wave and Protect, and Tailwind on the Shaymin for Protect; non-STAB Heat Wave really, really sucks, so much so that a neutral Thunderbolt is dealing almost the exact same damage to Pokemon weak to Fire. TTar probably wants Lum Berry and not a resist berry too, and Suicune's going to appreciate Leftovers more

#

some of the EVs also seem kind of random, make sure you're EVing with purpose

shell arrow
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shell arrow
#

Water + Grass Pledge neutralises opposing tailwind while giving me the speed advantage. Then I pivot to the hard hitters at the back like Lando-I and Archa (Primarina is also strong when rain is up) and start punching holes in the opponents team. okidogi is there so that I don't get walled by spdef walls like Blissey/Chansey and Ting-lu

#

Climbed till 1600s and then I stopped there.