#Smogon Doubles Rates

1 messages · Page 12 of 1

torpid moat
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iron hands learns heavy slam, there's no need for steel tera blast

tribal cedar
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i did not know that thanh you

torpid moat
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also it absolutely needs fake out, here I'd say over thunder punch

tribal cedar
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so scrap t punch for fake out

torpid moat
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yes

tribal cedar
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got it

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is there anything else i coikd improve on

torpid moat
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also you don't need heat rock here, only wake is dependent on sun

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charcoal is better for eruption torkoal

tribal cedar
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yea i had it originally but i was thinking heat rock would last the whole game but maybe you’re right

torpid moat
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use thunderclap over tbolt on raging bolt

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the walking wake is choice specs protect

tribal cedar
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does thunderclap offer any advantages, i’d prefer a guaranteed tbolt over an electric sucker punch but i may be speaking from inexperience

torpid moat
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the priority is the advantage

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you can use dragon pulse if you need to guarantee a hit

tribal cedar
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fair

torpid moat
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for wake you can try snarl or dragon pulse last slot

tribal cedar
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i like snarl

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other than that is my team solid

torpid moat
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brute bonnet feels out of place

tribal cedar
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i was thinking that too

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i had ting lu at first but it felt off

torpid moat
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that could be hisui lilligant I guess

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it runs sleep powder/after you

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though if you run both lilli and wake you can keep heat rock I guess

tribal cedar
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alr

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i think thus works better

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tysm :3

tribal cedar
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

idle mason
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I do good with this team but I feel like there are some adjustments I can make

plush otter
peak crypt
torpid moat
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you should also consider cress over p2, or sinistcha + something else over amoong + p2, you have several mons that would appreciate the healing

idle mason
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So just replace P2 w/ Cresselia?

peak crypt
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not related to what Paint said, but Azumarill is one of the few Pokemon that absolutely needs to be max Attack with a boosting nature

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your current spread hits 332 Attack after Huge Power, while max+ hits 436 - actually over 100 points of difference, which is gigantic

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especially after you use Belly Drum

idle mason
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So what should my spread be?

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+252 Adamant, right?

peak crypt
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max HP max Attack Adamant (or probably Brave on this team)

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+6 120 Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Poison Landorus: 262-310 (82.1 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Poison Landorus: 346-408 (108.4 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

idle mason
peak crypt
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even less!

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I'd also make sure all of your Pokemon have minimum speed unless you have a very specific reason for them to not be

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like the Amoonguss there is Calm with a speed IV of 0

idle mason
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How's this?

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
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make sure you azu has protect over liquidation too

quick robin
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im new to competitive and glim helped me make this stall team for doubles and i wanted some help with items and teras

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

plush otter
peak crypt
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Yes

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Spiky Shield, Meteor Beam, Sludge Bomb, Earth Power

plush otter
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ok sounds good thx

quick robin
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hi im new to competitive team building and idk if ive made a good stall team ive never made one before and this is what i came up with any advice https://pokepast.es/d40bf7209c115557

halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
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so the thing about stall in DOU is you have to be really, really good at the game to not just lose

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double battles are so much faster paced that when you're playing a team like this, your opponent kind of just gets to do whatever they want

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there are some optimizations you can make to these sets, particularly EV spreads and Tera types (which you mentioned before), but really the best thing you can do is just not play stall

quick robin
pulsar sinew
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I'll send you a link to my balance team.

pulsar sinew
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

pulsar sinew
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The team is a Balance core that makes great flexibility.

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Ogerpon, Inciniroar, and Rillaboom make a great FWG Core, with both Ghouldengo and Ogerpon making use of the double Fake Out support to get set up opportunities.

peak crypt
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I would actually recommend one of the sample teams before any teams posted in here

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Generally the easiest thing to pick up and play is offense, because clicking the move that does the most damage is usually a good way to succeed

peak crypt
midnight lotus
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

midnight lotus
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first time making a rain double team

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so chill on me

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i do feel like i lack rain abusers

peak crypt
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sorry no chill in this house

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I tried a pretty similar team using Chien-Pao over Amoonguss, and I think the team benefits a lot from having a fast threat in that slot

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but I also think having both Raging Bolt and Archaludon is a bit redundant

midnight lotus
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which do i switch

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and what for

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@peak crypt

peak crypt
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I think you could swap Bolt and Amoonguss for Landorus and offensive Tornadus, and maybe Palafin for Ogerpon-Wellspring too

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but I'm not super confident on rain

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@torpid moat tagging in

midnight lotus
torpid moat
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get rid of amoong, the already redundant one

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for waterpon

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and yeah you really want tornadus or landorus-i

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chien pao is another option if you wanna focus on phys mons

midnight lotus
polar lotus
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I have no idea how I just found out that kommo o is in DNU

IMG_1663.jpg
polar lotus
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Im gonna blame it on flutter mane even though shes banned

remote edge
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you'd probably be correct honestly

midnight lotus
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its more of a meme team

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to annoy people

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but i do feel like

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it could be improved

iron basin
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Sorry but this is a DUbers team, and I'm only posting here bc the others category has literally no ppl in it

dire flint
iron basin
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Still

dire flint
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?

iron basin
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What would you say as replacments?

dire flint
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to be completely honest

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replacements aren't going to do you much good here

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almost nothing on the team is usable

iron basin
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Huh?

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Wym?

dire flint
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this is the dubers thread

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as you can see none of the mons on your team are considered viable

iron basin
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I mean the team is a bit old but still those mon are ubers

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And I can play rated matches fine?

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Even been in a whole tournament 😭

dire flint
iron basin
dire flint
iron basin
dire flint
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they are so bad that the council didn't even bother to rank them

iron basin
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Those 3 by themselves absolutely dominated that meta

dire flint
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they were brought up and then rejected

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I would assume

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wdym about flutter mane, annihilape and terapagos

iron basin
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I watched the stream for the council 💀 I'm telling you they weren't even brought up 💀

dire flint
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those guys do not dominate dubers

iron basin
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😂

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🫵

dire flint
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okay

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well it's your life

iron basin
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Chat this guy ain't there all the way 💀

dire flint
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if you want to bring that team you can

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just don't expect to win

iron basin
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Use your ou team if their so bad

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Or make an user's team

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Idrc

dire flint
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I am not going to waste my time making an ubers team and playing you to prove what is obvious

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just out of curiosity what is your ranking on the dubers ladder

iron basin
iron basin
unborn marten
# iron basin I watched the stream for the council 💀 I'm telling you they weren't even brough...

What are you talking about?

The VR hasn't been voted on since dlc1 iirc, however not much has changed in the way of the meta since no box legends came back in that meta. Terapagos needs to be added, I would probably rank it about tier 2 or 3. Deoxys-A is terrible, it can't compete with the massive stat sticks in the tier, same with things like ogerpon. You can maybe afford 1-2 non dubers tier per team, but they need to be performing a really supportive role, which is why things like indeedee and grimmsnarl are ranked.

iron basin
unborn marten
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dude I literally voted on this vr ranking and top 4'd the last dubers tour

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the only changes have been like the addition of lunala, solgaleo, and terapagos, but overall the vr is relatively accurate. flutter mane is niche and risks speed ties so you're sort of forced into sash which reduces its power, annihilape is gimmicky at best since it's walled by a few mons or just dies to specs electro drift/draco

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there is no need to be insulting to someone who is giving you solid advice, lemurro is absolutely correct here

remote edge
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oh hey it's this guy again

frozen pivot
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

frozen pivot
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(feel like im sending my kids too war showing these)

rose juniper
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ill take a look at em in a sec

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@frozen pivot whats the idea for the teams? are they just for fun or do you want to actually somewhat climb the ladder or play tours with them in a competitive way?

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cause tbh the teams in terms of competitiveness are not good but they look kinda fun to play with

frozen pivot
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Just for fun too see how far I can get!

rose juniper
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alr

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well

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as I said they are not good but they look fun

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is there anything you want help with in terms of the teams?

frozen pivot
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I would like them too be a bit stronger but still keep the core ideas/play style of the team

rose juniper
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alright

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in that case I suggest we just work on the sets

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which can do with some optimization

frozen pivot
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Kk

rose juniper
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there is only 1 pokemon change I would make so far and that is swap out amoonguss for indeedee on the wind rider team

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I can show you what id do with it if you like

frozen pivot
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Ye!

rose juniper
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are the bramble EVs for anything specific?

frozen pivot
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No they've just been tweaked over time via trial and error

rose juniper
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oke so what ive done on this is

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I swapped out the murkrow for torn since its just a better murkrow overall

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and I swaped the iron boulder for an iron crown

frozen pivot
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Oooo

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This feels so fancy

rose juniper
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since that paires better with the new mon over amoonguss which is indeedee

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ive tried to keep the rest the same but then with better EVs and sets

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ill take a look now at the 2nd team

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which has certainly more viable mons but still the sets could do with improving

frozen pivot
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Ye ye, that one use too be a dancer team (as the name imply a since wanted too play with it) but just... Dissolved over time

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Thank you so much for the help btw!

rose juniper
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I didn't change any of the mons here just the sets

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and while I normally don't do this I thought it might help understand teambuilding a bit better

frozen pivot
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Ye! Again thank you so much this is so sweet ;A;

rose juniper
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if you ever feel a bit stuck on which pokemon to use or if you don't know what set is good

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just check that

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its quite useful

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hope it all helps

frozen pivot
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Ye!

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Honestly this is really sweet of you (and dw your comments weren't mean they were v helpful)

rose juniper
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np

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enjoy the teams and feel free to ask for help any time in here

frozen pivot
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Will do! Thanks so much!

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Say through the vid and it was suuuuper helpful (I didn't even know smogon had pre ived mons too go through) thanks!

faint yarrow
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https://pokepast.es/4e8a49ea6e546df6 thoughts on how i can make this better? the goal is just to wittle them down and take out threats with zoroark, then scrafty comes in with the sweep

peak crypt
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idk why the bot didn't tag

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that being said

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this one's uh... not good.

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you've chosen several sub-par Pokemon and given them movesets that don't really complement the things they do well

faint yarrow
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So far ive been winning alot with it, i dunnoo, it ain't that bad is it?

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The only things ive struggled against so far are willow wisp/defence mons

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I met cresselia a couple times and it isn't that scary but sometimes it just outheals me with the lunar thingy

faint yarrow
peak crypt
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Scrafty is significantly worse as a Moxie attacker than as a general Intimidate support user

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none of it, Tinkaton, and Zoroark really have a place in Doubles OU, and they just don't really meet the power level bar

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Smeargle sees fringe play but only with moves like Fake Out, Decorate, Spore, and Follow Me

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for a basic stat comparison, Iron Hands has almost as much Attack as +1 Scrafty - 416 on Hands vs 459 on +1 Scrafty

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Extreme Speed Smeargle just isn't worth bothering with

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Deo-A is banned from Doubles OU, but I'm using it as an example for how weak Smeargle is:

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252 Atk Smeargle Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Attack: 157-186 (65.1 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

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Deo-A is one of the least bulky Pokemon that's ever been DOU legal, and Smeargle's Attack stat is the same as Deo-A's Defense stat

faint yarrow
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i didnt want to slot an intimidate user because i want to ensure my smeargle is getting put at focus sash range, he outspeeds most things when they are paralyzed so endeavouring them and either having a teammate (anyone with fakeout mostly, preferably scrafty for the moxie proc) or smeargle itself with e speed finish off the low hp opponent

my tinkaton is for the most part doing enough to kill things like raging bolt, atleast in my experience

i guess swapping scrafty for iron hands makes sense, but i do like how long my scrafty is able to be alive

peak crypt
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Iron Hands is significantly bulkier than Scrafty anyway

quaint tree
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

quaint tree
peak crypt
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There’s not really any specific advice we can give with only two Pokémon

brittle spade
peak crypt
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The DOU forum has a few resources like viability rankings to help you put the rest of the team together

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But this slate is a little too blank for us to help with

quaint tree
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Ok I’ll come back with a bit more to work with

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Only problem is I have no idea what I’m doing
Basically the plan is to build a team around Greninja
Or if that’s to hard I’ll just make one with him on the team which is easier cause almost all teams now have ogerpon flutter mane and rillaboom

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According to CBR I have to

Find a strategy
Check the Meta
Cover Weaknesses
And that’s all I need apparently

torpid moat
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and have you checked the meta yet?

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also flutter mane is banned

quaint tree
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Yes and yes

quaint tree
torpid moat
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why are you using those sets then? they look like singles sets

quaint tree
quaint tree
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Now I’m scanning Wolfeys videos for some form of understanding of team building
I know how to teambuild I just don’t know how to teambuild yknow?

torpid moat
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it's impossible to teambuild well without understanding a format

quaint tree
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I have Greninja Landorus T Incineroar Rillaboom and Ogerpon H
There’s no synergy cause again I’m lost

quaint tree
peak crypt
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Doubles OU and VGC are two different formats

quaint tree
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I always assumed since VGC format is Doubles that they were at least kinda similar

torpid moat
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they are similar, but there are significant differences like flutter being legal in one but not the other

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also vgc is bring 6 pick 4, while in dou you use all 6

quaint tree
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Well the team would still be valid in both I’d just have to think harder

brave sapphire
clear stratus
brave sapphire
# clear stratus https://pokepast.es/c4a3d0957ea9fd1b

Incineroar is good on basically any team, can't really go wrong with having one. Like the setup, but having breloom strictly for stamina, not bad awful, I think there could possibly be better pokemon, not sure off the top of my head. Everything else seems pretty good!

torpid moat
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If you're using ghold build like that on rain, you may as well just use electro shot archaludon

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arch would do similar, just lefties flash cannon/electro shot/body press/protect

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I don't really like cloak as a pelipper item, eject button and damp rock are way more useful for setting rain while losing as little momentum as possible

brave sapphire
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Is draco meteor better than protect?

torpid moat
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no

brave sapphire
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Ok

torpid moat
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arch is built for longevity so it really wants protect for extra passive healing + to pivot your other mons

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if you want you can run dragon pulse over flash cannon

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better vs certain mons like raging bolt, worse against diancie and lots of tera fairy fat mons

torpid moat
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also if you're gonna build arch bulky it has to be 252 hp

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since you have cresselia anyways, you can just build it bulky + slow with trick room

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you can do the same with palafin, potentially switching to a 252 hp 252 atk bulk up set there as well instead of choice band

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best way I can think to fit everything together with cress

idle mason
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

idle mason
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Made the Dragonite-Chien Pao team 😭

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Not sure if I should change it

brittle spade
idle mason
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Ty ty

oblique crater
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rose juniper
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@oblique crater I don't have a lot of time atm and im on my phone but since no one has helped you so far ill go over the basics

oblique crater
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it’s fine thanks, doubles isn’t for me.

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don’t worry about it

rose juniper
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So do you want an rmt still?

oblique crater
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No thanks.

rose juniper
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Alr

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Im that case have a nice day

jade pecan
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
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And stuff like iron hands and volcanion will trade favorably with your whole team

jade pecan
brittle spade
jade pecan
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ok but

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hyper offense

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and I don’t want a support mon

brittle spade
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Yeah but hyper offense isn't as good in SV dou because of tera

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People brought sun to tours and it included farigiraf whimsicott chiyu ogerpon-cornerstone for example

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Your team is ok, you'll just run into very tough matchups sometimes

unique crescent
peak crypt
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Regigigas is such a massive pit of Bad that there’s not really any way to make a Regigigas team “good”

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But you’re usually still better off with Neutralizing Gas Weezing in that slot rather than trying any Skill Swap shenanigans

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If you run Medicham you will eventually run into a Follow Me Ogerpon, and you REALLY don’t want to give Ogerpon Huge Power

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Beyond that though, the rest of the Pokémon need some work on their sets

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Clear Amulet and Sludge Wave don’t really make any sense on Tornadus, Zen Headbutt on Ogerpon doesn’t hit anything important that you can’t hit with another Pokemon, and Booster Iron Hands is very much inferior to Assault Vest or Swords Dance

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I’d actually recommend Assault Vest Raging Bolt instead of Iron Hands, if only so you don’t just get completely hosed by an Incineroar clicking Knock Off on Regigigas and then making it useless with Parting Shot

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speaking of Incin, it usually opts for Sitrus or Boots and Parting Shot rather than a move like Darkest Lariat, but if you’ve been liking Assault Vest you can try U-turn in that slot too

unique crescent
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ok nice

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thanks

peak crypt
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If you do end up on Weezing, you should actually run Ability Shield on Incineroar

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So Weezing’s Neutralizing Gas won’t turn off Intimidate

idle mason
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So I thought of building a TR team around an offensive Umbreon (not sure if it's even worth it Imao)

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should I start off with Amoongus, Farigiraf, and Rillaboom?

real lance
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

real lance
unborn marten
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cress set needs 1 attack minimum (psychic) and you don't need both moonlight and lunar blessing, drop moonlight

hitmontop is like entirely outclassed here by iron hands, can do either sd or av set, prob lean av here

ditch the band on tsar (something like sitrus is fine) and if you really want rapid spin you can put it there, dont think tera blast is appealing here at all

if you want a ground type add an actual ground type like landorus

imo this team struggles due to over reliance on cress + how passive it makes the rest of the team + no protects on the mons that are supposed to be threats

idle mason
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not sure if this is the best I could do so feel free to criticize

polar lotus
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As much as umbreon is one of my favorite eeveelutions, it’s unfortunately not viable in dou

idle mason
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How about duu?

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I think I can play that on showdown instead

polar lotus
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I haven’t played duu

peak crypt
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how attached are you to using Umbreon in general

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because this team could be really good if you drop Umbreon for a second TR setter and make the Bolt Calm Mind

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(or for a faster Pokemon)

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@idle mason

idle mason
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I'm okay with dropping Umbreon yeah

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I just dk if one of my TR teams is better than the other

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Lemme get the other pokepaste first

peak crypt
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here let me whip something up real quick

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need to bug people for spreads

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also side note

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your Ursaluna has Special Attack EVs

torpid moat
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btw if I were to use umbreon it'd be some snarl taunt inner focus disruption set

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not a good mon though compared to like ting lu

peak crypt
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something like this?

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this seems cool

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(Amoonguss item can be whatever you want)

idle mason
idle mason
peak crypt
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it's just one of the best Pokemon in the format

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okay after a test game this six isn't quite it

polar lotus
halcyon pantherBOT
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New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
polar lotus
torpid moat
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if you instead wanted to lean into trick room, I would cut the tornadus instead for like a diancie or iron hands

polar lotus
peak crypt
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that's a fine thing to have Trick Room for, I think

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I'd swap to Heat Wave over one of Torkoal's attacks so you can utilize Trick Room yourself against opposing Tailwind teams

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but the real key is the addition of Rage Powder to Sinistcha's set

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redirecting attacks is super, super powerful

earnest jungle
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

earnest jungle
#

💀

#

never knew this would happen

peak crypt
#

That’s by design

#

Anyway there’s no good way to say this but Dancer cheese isn’t good

#

It will beat a bunch of people at the bottom of the ladder and then stop winning entirely

scenic hamlet
#

Oricorio doesn’t even get Toxic

earnest jungle
#

i use air cutter instead

earnest jungle
#

i dont know any metas at all

polar lotus
#

https://pokepast.es/122819615e890036

Okay so this isn't a team but basically I am trying to create a box for one of my friend who wants to play doubles OU but doesnt want to use any of the OP mons like the paradox mons. basically mostly anything from gen 9 is a no go. Except wo-chein, dudunsparce, cyclizar, lokix and mousold. I am trying to make a box of pokemons that he could use with their sets. What more mons should I add? And if possible what sort of team can I make?

peak crypt
#

if you're coming in with absolutely no idea what to do, it'll help a lot to look at the sample teams - you don't need to be using them (though we do recommend it), it'll give you a good look into what kinds of Pokemon and strategies people are using

peak crypt
# polar lotus https://pokepast.es/122819615e890036 Okay so this isn't a team but basically ...

"doesn't want to use any of the OP mons like the paradox mons" is vastly overrating the strength of Slither Wing, Iron Treads, and Iron Thorns

with that out of the way, there are a lot of Pokemon missing from this list that you would want in order to make a competitive team, and on top of that, a lot of these sets are pretty weak. The only Pokemon on this list that's actually terrible is Ariados, but the majority of these Pokemon I would never consider on a serious team. You could try showing your friend the DOU viability rankings and have them pick out a few they're interested in using: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

Smogon Forums
Resource - SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings

Art by Fangame10

Welcome to the Doubles OU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every month), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and...

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

it's easily possible to win with weaker or unusual Pokemon in DOU, but doing so (in any tier really) requires a deep understanding of the format that can usually only be achieved by using the best Pokemon at first - the easiest way to learn how to beat something is to use it yourself and lose

#

trying to get a start only by using weaker stuff is generally a bad way to get into the format because you don't get the same understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the top Pokemon

polar lotus
peak crypt
#

SM and SV are totally different landscapes

#

a lot of the best Pokemon from SM are gone, and some like Incineroar are even stronger

#

it's also worth noting for you and for @earnest jungle - Dragonite is DOU almost entirely because of Chien-Pao, and generally does not succeed without it

#

Dragon Dance kind of just isn't a set, you either hard send with Choice Band or you go a little bulkier with Assault Vest

polar lotus
#

Hmmm alrightyy

earnest jungle
#

so basically i should utilize dragonite with chien pao then?

peak crypt
#

and Multiscale is also just worse than Inner Focus

#

Inner Focus makes you immune to Intimidate and flinches

#

especially from Fake Out

earnest jungle
#

im confused now so is dragonite trash or is he good?

peak crypt
#

Dragonite fits on exactly one archetype, but that archetype is very good

earnest jungle
#

right

peak crypt
#

https://pokepast.es/c18a8f18bc8fbdda this is one of the sample teams and the only one with Dragonite - it uses Chien-Pao to boost the power of Extreme Speed and make Dragonite into a proper threat

#

(I think this is my least favorite sample team, Orthworm isn't great, but this is an example of the kind of place you'll see Dragonite)

earnest jungle
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

unborn marten
#

#1030567099703242903 message

rule 5

please don’t post teams that aren’t yours

earnest jungle
#

oh my fault

peak crypt
#

These Pokémon aren’t bad but this team is clearly just ported straight from singles with no consideration from what Doubles teams require

unborn marten
#

try using a sample team, or at least looking at them, in doubles mons use protect / fake out / more supportive elements

#

like you need certain roles that this team just doesn’t have

earnest jungle
#

i see

peak crypt
#

that’s basically the same advice I gave you yesterday

celest dune
peak crypt
#

To put it bluntly, this team is kind of a mess and I would highly suggest you check out the sample teams instead. There’s not really a good way to fix it up without drastically changing the team; the six Pokémon you’ve chosen don’t really work particularly well together, and all of the individual sets need improvements

celest dune
#

i will check the sample teams

normal girder
slow pike
#

I'm not a rater but this doesn't look viable at all in the DOU meta, so I recommend you take a look at the sample teams and use those and learn from there

halcyon pantherBOT
peak crypt
#

seconding that as an actual rater

#

you don’t need to use sample teams if you really don’t want to, but looking at sample teams and at the other teams people post will give you a better idea of what Pokémon people are using and what they’re using those Pokémon for

#

@normal girder

vagrant apex
brittle spade
#

Tera steel isn't the best on Ninetales too

#

You want water ghost fire

#

Or dark

#

You could just replace Ninetales by Kyurem

#

Usually you want screens with setup

#

But here you ain't got no setup

#

Whatever floats your cookie, what you got should do fine to reach 1700elo

peak crypt
#

You could go with Swords Dance Ogerpon instead of Follow Me

#

Right now you have all this support and not a lot of damage

normal girder
peak crypt
#

This one’s still a little messy but it’s a massive improvement

torpid moat
#

main issue is some bad set choices

#

try using swords dance iron hands instead of belly drum, with clear amulet over helmet

#

swords dance/drain punch/ice punch/detect

#

give your gholdengo shadow ball instead of poltergeist

#

poltergeist is a physical move, not a special one

#

shadow ball works much better with ghold's stats and nasty plot

normal girder
#

Alright thanks

celest dune
proud rose
dire flint
halcyon pantherBOT
dire flint
#

you can look at these to get a better idea of what the mons run

#

the smogon strategy dex also contains specific information on what sets common mons usually use

proud rose
#

Thank you so much!

rough blade
normal girder
torpid moat
#

if you do want to keep gallade, it would run sacred sword/psycho cut/coverage/protect

#

potentially trick room, though not on this team

#

grimmsnarl is used mainly for screens, if you just want fake out there are better options like rillaboom, iron hands, incineroar

#

araquanid just has too low stats, its main niche would be with sticky web and wide guard

#

but it's another mon you should cut

#

if you want other mons to pair better with rain dance, there's sandsear lando-i, archaludon, palafin, basculegion-f

#

also chien pao is much better with focus sash or life orb so it can switch moves

#

switching moves lets it use its good coverage and most importantly sucker punch priority

#

and also so it can run protect

torpid moat
#

you pretty much instantly lose to diancie + disruption

#

howl gouging also feels out of place, it only really combos with firepon

#

if you do keep that degree of reliance on sun, at least run sunny day torn

#

but yeah if you wanted to focus on the special side you could try like chi yu/raging bolt/torkoal/lilli/wake/torn

#

or you could work on phys side by adding like a kingambit or rilla somewhere

celest dune
celest dune
#

this sounded pretty good to me

torpid moat
#

incineroar does that job better

#

better bulk + intimidate

celest dune
#

yeah true

torpid moat
#

and slow parting shot isn't bad

#

while rillaboom works better at being an offensive threat itself with pao

celest dune
#

i will probably use rillaboom then because grassy terrain is also really good with tera grass leaf blade gallade

#

and ogerpon

torpid moat
#

so while gallade hits hard, it's also pretty frail and reliant on speed control

celest dune
torpid moat
#

araquanid is also rather frail, and doesn't hit as hard as you think, especially into resists

#

it offers nothing to cover rain's weaknesses while being slow, too

celest dune
#

i'll replace grimmsnarl for rillaboom and play some games and then maybe replace araquanid too

torpid moat
#

at least run sacred sword and protect on your gallade

celest dune
#

i actually just didnt know it learned sacred sword lol

torpid moat
#

that way you can at least beat archaludon

#

sacred/psycho cut/leaf blade/protect is plenty coverage

#

but yeah consider the other mons I listed as alternatives for rain

torpid moat
#

try making arch electro shot/flash cannon/body press/protect

#

and give it stamina to get defense boosts instead of iron defense

#

with leftovers

#

give your amoong Regenerator, and pollen puff over stun spore to heal allies

#

make your iron hands Adamant

#

try giving your tornadus covert cloak to ignore fake out, or at least sitrus for bulk

#

salac doesn't really do anything for a prankster tailwind setter

#

you can also give arch assault vest too

#

either lefties or av are fine

#

if av, you can run draco meteor over protect

#

if you still wanna cut arch, try lando-i in that slot instead

normal girder
#

Alright ill do that thanks

torpid moat
#

arch and ghold don't work that well together btw, you can also run lando over the ghold too

#

and consider leftovers on ghold

#

one of ghold's best parts is its bulk, and life orb takes so much away from that

#

you can run sitrus too

brave mirage
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rough blade
celest dune
#

thoughts? just tried making a team with diancie because i like this pokémon

image.png image.png
polar lotus
slow pike
halcyon pantherBOT
#

PokePaste is the easiest way to share competitive teams with other people online. Simply upload your team to the site and you can share your team by sharing the link in your browser!

To upload a team to PokePaste directly from Pokemon Showdown, scroll to the bottom of the team and press the button that says Upload to PokePaste.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180735291453/pokepaste1.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=5d0b952a78e50b944a63f5e16a9006dffbf6f8fe900cede444f1c65b965a064a&

You can then take the link of the PokePaste and share that link to share the team with other people.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459043501984972801/1158775180492013660/pokepaste2.png?ex=651d78fc&is=651c277c&hm=2d3caf4b912c30f438c896f0b696d9c80bd50d9e5a4a8ed067bca9e5dbf6ff3c&

slow pike
#

you'll want this in order to ping team raters

limber lantern
peak crypt
#

everything's pretty fine except the Archaludon, which doesn't really make much sense here

#

if you just want a chunky special attacker in that slot you'd probably be better off with Raging Bolt

#

the Archaludon set also isn't great; Meteor Beam is kind of just worse than Electro Shot and Aura Sphere doesn't do anything that Body Press can't

#

this team can only end up being so good though because it's built around the Snorlax and Snorlax isn't great

#

it's not bad, it just has a lower ceiling than some of the more relevant threats

celest dune
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

celest dune
#

not so much spa

peak crypt
#

the bad news is Pecharunt is the worst Pokemon on the team no matter how you change its set

#

and Gallade doesn’t really fit either

#

So let’s start a little farther back: what do you like about the team? How is it playing? What Pokémon or playstyles are you struggling against?

#

@celest dune

celest dune
#

Also Rillaboom and Ogerpon in Grassy Terrain with no speed using Grassy Glide is stupid sometimes

#

I struggle the most against rain Archaludon but Gallade can deal with it sometimes

#

Sacred Sword always OHKOs

#

And Gallade has Leaf Blade with tera Grass to abuse the stupid damage it has in Grassy Terrain

#

It OHKOs even resistances

#

Incineroar is Incineroar and Porygon2 is a tanky tr setter that can force Landorus and Pelipper out on lead bc of Ice Beam and Thunderbolt

peak crypt
#

It sounds like the average Pecharunt performance is just “kind of annoying” and you really need a Pokémon to be worth more than that

#

and being a wall isn’t really that great in DOU when you can potentially take both a physical and a special attack in the same turn

#

Porygon2 probably does a better job at being a wall than Pecharunt does anyway

#

Gallade’s a fine Pokémon but it’s definitely not best served alongside Rillaboom; it usually sees play alongside Indeedee-F as a second Trick Room setter, because it does really well into most of the things that beat Expanding Force

#

and if you switch Horsepower on Rilla to Wood Hammer, it’s probably doing more damage anyway while also providing more benefit to the team as a Pokémon

#

Ogerpon also really wants to be Jolly, because having a base 110 speed Water type and choosing not to outrun Lando-I is generally a pretty bad idea

#

Incin Oger Rilla P2 is a great core for the team, it’s just the other two that stand out as noticeably weaker than the rest

#

P2 as your only speed control also means if P2 goes down you’re kind of at the mercy of your opponent’s faster Pokémon

celest dune
celest dune
#

Not really trying to make an Indeedee team so yeah lol

celest dune
#

Tysm for helping mewheart

celest dune
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

celest dune
#

just made a new version of the team

#

replacing Gallade and Pecharunt

torpid moat
#

it usually runs diamond storm/body press/trick room/protect

#

tusk is also quite awkward of a slot, maybe try calm mind ursaluna blood moon or raging bolt?

#

also when arctic said waterpon needs to be jolly, he meant it needs to be both jolly and running enough speed to outrun lando-i

#

which is 184+ speed

opal thorn
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
#

also you're using a lot of very similar mons with similar weaknesses

#

you're gonna have a lot of trouble against opposing incineroar or iron hands

#

try cutting all 3 of talonflamr cress roaring moon

#

for tornadus for tailwind, ogerpon-wellspring for follow me/general coverage

#

and maybe landorus-i for not losing to archaludon/hands

hallow sorrel
#

i havent played many games with it yet

pulsar sinew
#

Gastrodon isn't really viable.

#

Many top pokemon can easily take advantage of it.

#

Especially Ogerpon-W.

hallow sorrel
#

i just wanna improve my garbage idea

pulsar sinew
#

If you're going to use a rain team, use pokemon that are excellent and can abuse it themselves.

#

Such are Ogerpon-W, Landorus-I, and Raging bolt.

#

Remove U-Turn from Ogerpon-W and replace it with Horn Leach.

#

It gives it more longevity throughout a course of a battle.

#

Ditch Amoonguss as Ogerpon-W already provides redirection.

hallow sorrel
#

for who

pulsar sinew
#

And I'd recommend Archaludon for further rain abuse in place.

#

And remove surf from Pel in place for weather Ball.

hallow sorrel
pulsar sinew
#

It can snowball out of control quite easily with proper support.

#

Electro Shot has no charge under rain.

hallow sorrel
#

got it

peak crypt
#

Archaludon is currently being suspect tested; I'd recommend against building with it if you're looking for something long term, because it might not be legal a week from now

#

Tundra is right that Gastrodon kind of stinks, but Azumarill also isn't great

#

and usually if you're using moves that hit your partner, you need to be really careful about having other options when the ideal partner goes down (or be Miraidon and just say "I didn't need that partner anyway")

#

I agree that Amoong Ogerpon is a little redundant

hallow sorrel
#

who do i put in place of azumaril

peak crypt
#

why did you put Azumarill on the team in the first place?

#

knowing that means we can find a Pokemon that helps do some of what Azumarill did, as opposed to just saying "use [other Pokemon] instead"

hallow sorrel
#

to be honest idk

#

i had no idea who to put in my 6th slot so i just slapped a water type there and called it a day

#

but the whole team is supposed to center around gastrodon so mayby something to replace him if he goes down

#

or more support but that sounds redundant

peak crypt
#

Gastrodon really just doesn't do anything good in the current DOU environment

hallow sorrel
#

im aware

#

thankfully at a low elo the team doesnt need to be good it just needs to work

#

and mine dont work

peak crypt
#

one of the reasons it does not work is unfortunately because there is a Gastrodon on it

hallow sorrel
peak crypt
#

if you're really, really dead set on using Gastrodon, the team needs a Trick Room setter to let Gastrodon move first, and probably a better set than Choice Specs on the Gastrodon

#

Gastrodon / Pelipper / Wellspring / Rillaboom / Porygon2 is probably the frame you're looking at, with perhaps a Raging Bolt in the back

hallow sorrel
#

that sounds good

#

why bolt

peak crypt
#

it's just a really, really good Pokemon, and it can help answer opposing Dragons (including other Bolt) that you currently struggle with

hallow sorrel
#

got it

peak crypt
hallow sorrel
#

why muddy water

peak crypt
#

it hits both opponents without damaging your partner

hallow sorrel
#

wait really

#

damn

peak crypt
#

yup

hallow sorrel
#

but this was actually made first

olive tundra
torpid moat
#

but also that discharge gimmick looks really awful

torpid moat
olive tundra
hallow sorrel
hallow sorrel
torpid moat
#

have fun full-paraing your own grasspon

hallow sorrel
#

but ive gotten double para on the enemies

pulsar sinew
#

The point of competitive is skill, and the desire to win. If you want to win then you're going to have to use the best strategies available.

#

I don't mean to sound rude, but memable teams made for fun don't belong in ratings.

shell arrow
#

Where should we ask the for fun questions?

pulsar sinew
#

The comp-generals.

shell arrow
real lance
torpid moat
real lance
torpid moat
#

you're gonna get scream tailed or just setup on faster

#

opposing ting lu also carry whirlwind

#

try cutting the dusclops and clef

real lance
#

It's a trick room team

torpid moat
#

you can get away with just rockpon or bonnet as redirection

#

trick room is an inherently offensive archetype

#

you have a short amount of time to make use of trick room turns, so you have to be as threatening as possible during them

#

if you're passive, going first doesn't matter, because then the opponent can do whatever they were gonna do anyways because they have nothing to fear

#

dusclops is tanky, but it has nothing else going for it as a trick room setter, in reliability either since it's locked into eviolite

#

mew and necrozma are just all-around more reliable

real lance
torpid moat
#

why wouldn't it? that's a 4x weakness

#

if it's really in a case where it needs to live a psychic hit it can tera too

real lance
#

True

real lance
#

Like if a person in DOU brings heatran like some would probably tera grass if there is a amoongus around

torpid moat
#

most valuable part of fairy is fighting resist

real lance
#

True because most mons are gonna use close Combat to kill it

real lance
#

If it were not to tera

real lance
#

I would like to be on the offense

peak crypt
#

It’s not that Mew and Necrozma are “all-rounder” Pokémon

#

(Mew is more of a dedicated support and Necrozma is all offense)

#

Paint means that those Pokémon are just plain better than Dusclops

#

Sure, Dusclops is pretty good at not dying, but that’s about the only thing it can do

tall blaze
#

theres no nat dex double sk

#

but everything on that team works vesides mawkle in reg ou

#

i jist want a rate

peak crypt
#

@unborn marten

unborn marten
#

this is mostly ok, i would probably drop knock on mawile for protect. normally I would say you want sucker, but if this has indeedee that's kind of a big ask. blursa should have an orb here, farig could be tera fairy or fighting, kingambit should have probably blackglasses and knock, but gambit is really at its best when you can use sucker punch

id simply drop hatterene for stakataka as well with tera ghost gyro/rockslide/heat crash or tr/tect

latent lynx
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

scenic hamlet
#

this is a solid hard Trick Room team, but obviously you're leaving yourself completely helpless vs anyone with good TR measures

#

probably want at least one guy that isn't reliant on the room being up

latent lynx
#

who do you suggest i replace in favor for the guy

#

nvm

scenic hamlet
#

well you have the Lilligant option so I guess it's not that bad outside of room, just gotta be careful with it regardless

#

I guess the advice "watch out for anti TR stuff" with a TR team is obvious

#

but you have it down pretty well

#

Farigiraf isn't too necessary as you have Psychic Terrain

#

can go for even more PsySpam / Sun cheese with Armarouge

#

or Cresselia which pairs even better with Ursaluna as a Levitate Pokemon

#

lets you Earthquake next to it and get healed up by Lunar Blessing

nova leaf
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rose juniper
#

Ill take a look

#

Honestly for a first team this really isn't that bad and it has a good concept but there are things to be improved

#

Are there any specific things/pokemon you wanna keep on the team?

nova leaf
#

the smeargle

#

just for decorate

#

im using a lot that spatk boost in ursaluna and primarina

#

also the farigiraf

#

nothing more

rose juniper
#

Alright cool, ill grab some coffee and then ill be back in 5ish min to take a more indepth look and help you out a bit

nova leaf
#

tysm

rose juniper
#

oke im looking through the team rn

#

since you wanna keep smeargle which is absolutly fine, play with the mons you like fi you care about that

#

but it does mean that it will always be a slightly gimmicky team

nova leaf
#

yeah, im trying to use ogerpon with follow me to always put trickroom with smeargle

rose juniper
#

oke

nova leaf
#

also to dodge taunt

rose juniper
#

I always try to stick as closely to the original team as possible and with the mons you got here that can certainly work

#

but I would prob switch out atleast 1 or 2 mons

nova leaf
#

ok

#

i dont have any problem with that

rose juniper
#

cool

#

mind if I ask why chien pao is on the team btw

#

clean up late game?

nova leaf
#

when i cant put trickroom i need a fast pkmn

#

and for that

rose juniper
#

alright

#

I am gonna replace that tho with prob Kingambit

#

since thats overall better at cleaning up a late game and it works a bit better on TR

nova leaf
#

I have to go, sorry, I'll be back in about 3 hours

rose juniper
#

np

#

I made some minor changes, mainly in the movesets and EV's

#

a good thing to remember when building/EVing is that its generally better to invest in HP before any of the 2 defenses and to make sure HP is an odd number

#

that doesn't apply to everything but generally speaking it applies to most and its a good rule of thumb to stick to for now

#

as I said I tried to stick as closely to the original team but I did put indeedee over oger, its a bit more consistent for getting up TR and it gives Psy terrain, boosting expending force on fargiraf and blocking priority moves and I removed pao for gambit for reasons mentioned earlier

#

but

#

if you do wanna use some other alternatives

#

I would recommand at looking at hatterene over fargiraf as the TR setter in Psy terrain and regular ursaluna over ursaluna blood moon but thats also just prefrence ofc

#

there are generally speaking also better hard hitting pokemon under TR then primarina but if you like it keep it

#

here are some replacement sets

#

but ofc feel free to explore any other options you like the sound of

#

gl with the team and if there are any questions or other things you like help with (with or without the team) lmk

rose juniper
#

otherwise you could also consider sinistcha if you don't like indeedee

nova leaf
#

Ok, so i was watcing the team and i only can say one thing, thank you so much, all of your tips are the exactly ones that i needed, im going to try using the replacement, again, tysm, it was so helful : )

barren bluff
celest dune
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
#

both of you are using max HP Iron Hands

#

never do this

brittle spade
#

im gonna send a team to the fullroom guy

#

one sec

peak crypt
# barren bluff https://pokepast.es/245c800d8ff3b7a6

The two issues I see with this team are that it only has one Trick Room setter and it lacks upfront damage. Trick Room is inherently a hyper offense playstyle; you need to be able to take advantage of your limited TR turns to win games. A pretty simple solution would be to swap the Farigiraf to Indeedee-F; this lets you run Expanding Force on Hatterene for a lot more upfront damage (and get rid of Future Sight it sucks)

brittle spade
peak crypt
#

but right now you have Supercell Slam, you dropped Blood Moon for Moonblast, your Kingambit has Rocky Helmet for some reason, and Regidrago might as well have Draco because you are literally never going to click Ancient Power

idle mason
#

Tried to make a rain team??

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shell arrow
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

shell arrow
#

I really wanted to use Dondozzo with coaching in DOU (thought he matched up pretty well against most of the tier 1 & 2 mons in DOU especially with a dragon tera and max spdef evs).

#

Mostly i thought that he could ignore Archaludon's boosts with intimidate while his own boost can't be lowered with substitute. Grassy terrain + leftovers really help with recovery especially behind a sub

#

I did manage to climb till the 1500s but it sucks that this team sucks against Terracott cheese

rose juniper
#

If no one else has helped you by tomorrow ill take a look at it

#

But at first look it seems that its to much centered around dondozo

torpid moat
#

also if you want a spread attacker on rain kingdra is a lot more consistent than prima

#

kingdra can attack a lot more freely because it isn't grass weak and doesn't need tailwind to function

#

and if you still want another grass you can run rilla and waterpon together

#

rilla gives arch passive recovery as well

torpid moat
#

sub is just very awkward with it

#

also this kind of physical focused team usually leans towards howl gouging + ting lu

#

I have seen a cute combo with yawn dozo + sand tomb ting lu that has worked well

#

the firepon and hands sets are pretty awkward

#

clam hands without swords dance just requires a lot of support, and having both fake out and protect is unnecessary anyways

#

and going for crit with firepon just feels gimmicky

#

it feels like you're simultaneously over and underpreparing for arch

#

when harder answers like yawn or roar would help more

#

but yeah it's a full physical team without pao or ting lu, which is probably incorrect

shell arrow
#

Thanks for the feedback. Another potentially good recipient for coaching (i presume) could be CB Espeed Dnite. But im curious, who would you recommend to be a good bulky coaching recipient that can also beat the stupid bridge

peak crypt
#

Those two things aren’t really compatible

idle mason
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

brittle spade
polar lotus
torpid moat
torpid moat
shell arrow
torpid moat
#

also, booster energy interacts really badly with ngas iirc, you can just use clear amulet hands if you want more power, or assault vest for bulk

polar lotus
#

i would assume either of those would go over Electrode?

torpid moat
#

tbh I'd sooner cut the incin or hands

#

also your waterpon should be jolly

#

incin and hands are better mons but you have a lot of fat mon role overlap

quaint tree
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

clever orchid
#

hey guys i’m building a team for my friend and they wanted me to use gallade and bm ursaluna and i tried to make it work and it’s working just need a second opinion it’s for doubles ou ive just played 10 games with the team i won 8 and lost 2 (one to a double flinch terrakion which was annoying) so i would just like any improvements i can make for the team i know i uses 2 items twice but thank you in advance

https://pokepast.es/c8ae454351b8cd41

#

some things i should mention is that i never fully use starraptors moveset like dual wing beat or qa i almost always used final gambit to take out anything that i couldn’t deal with

peak crypt
#

if the only conditions are “use Gallade and Blood Moon” then building an Indeedee TR team is going to be about eight hundred times easier than this

#

This team is kind of a mess, and all of the movesets are really weak

#

There’s almost a complete lack of Protect (and Spiky Shield) when it’s one of the best moves in the game, and you also don’t have a single speed control move—with a minspeed Ursaluna you desperately need Trick Room, but instead your Farigiraf and Gallade both have four attacks

quaint tree
#

https://pokepast.es/0b3333150167773c Wanted to build a team around clear body metagross paired with spicy extract and chlorophyll solar beams alongside torkoal and great tusk in the back for when/if they die

halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
peak crypt
#

and to make my intentions a little clearer: what types of moves did you give your Metagross

quaint tree
#

Spicy extract boosts its attack by two but doesn’t lower its defense due to clear body. Earthquake for damage and knock off for keeping the opponent in check while doing damage.

torpid moat
#

you would still want bullet punch at the minimum on gross so it can actually hit things

#

plus an iron head or psychic fangs regardless for a strong stab hit

#

you should also consider clear amulet great tusk

#

and a better item than leftovers on scovillain

#

as it stands the team is just an extremely messy sun team

#

I've built scovillain before, it can be much tighter

#

imo there are two main options, either go for semiroom, or go full speed with some better targets, plus actual speed control and fast mons

quaint tree
#

Ok

torpid moat
#

so semiroom would make use of diancie

#

which makes diancie + torkoal pairing actually usable

#

and since none of those are priority focused, indeedee-f would be a natural addition

quaint tree
#

I don’t really want to rely on room. Kinda defeats the purpose of Sco-Gross

torpid moat
#

your current purpose is having your entire team die to chi yu

#

or lando i etc

#

but yeah the other option is going on the faster side

#

most balanced choice would be two extract targets, one being bullet punch metagross

#

and the other being naturally fast

#

dragapult is the main other clear body mon, but there are plenty of okay choices with clear amulet

#

roaring moon, baxcalibur, gouging fire, great tusk

#

and you could add on chien pao too because it would be physically focused

#

clam roaring moon also gives you access to tailwind, which fixes a lot of your issues

#

though I will say, the semiroom variant I mentioned will not "rely" on room, because it can also run any of the offensive extract targets I just listed anyways

#

trust me, metagross without speed control is pretty disappointing, even at +2

quaint tree
#

And if I got rid of gross? I’m fine with ditching it I mainly just want to use Scovillain.

torpid moat
#

the point is that you want speed control, not that you don't necessarily want gross

#

scovillain/torkoal/gross/clam moon/chien pao/great tusk wouldn't be all that bad, for example

#

but I do think a diancie comp is cleaner because it makes better use of torkoal and lack of priority need

idle hinge
#

https://pokepast.es/c2ccad641fc59fd5

Im trying out a team focused on Opportunist Mirror Herb Espathra + Flamigo. Could this team work well or is there any big holes that I need to fix?

torpid moat
#

zapdos-galar is better than flamigo in almost every way, for example

#

and yeah espathra is a lot more efficient at boosting with speed boost baton pass

idle hinge
#

Damn

#

Ok

clever orchid
# peak crypt There’s almost a complete lack of Protect (and Spiky Shield) when it’s one of th...

no one expects a scarf gallade it’s always band or orb and gallade mid speed is the problem with gallade having a scarf on him fixes it and the bm ursaluna is to prevent other trick room pokemon out of the 40 is battles ive played with the team speed was never the issue and with tr on farigarf i never found myself using it plus armour tail hard counters fake out and prankster mons i’ll try and fit indeedee and see how it goes but im winning majority of my games with this team so ill revert back if it doesn’t fit

peak crypt
#

Unexpected doesn’t mean good

#

Nobody expects me to leave a gnome on their front porch, but that doesn’t mean I’ve hurt them

#

Gallade sees play almost exclusively on Indeedee-F Trick Room teams because Clear Amulet Gallade is really good against Incineroar, who otherwise gives the archetype a lot of trouble, while still pumping out damage with boosted Psycho Cut and being a backup Trick Room setter

#

Outside of that specific niche, there are so many better Pokémon—there’s no reason to use Gallade as a generic physical attacker when I could instead use Ogerpon, Chien-Pao, Baxcalibur, Rillaboom, Iron Hands, etc

#

Gallade is Doubles UU for a reason, and it’s not “people are sleeping on it”

#

Scarf also isn’t an adequate way to be fast - once your opponent figures out you’re not going to use Trick Room, they can use their own Tailwind and outpace your entire team, and you have no way to contest that speed control

clever orchid
peak crypt
#

The most common movesets are common because they are good

#

If you don’t see anyone else using your set, there’s usually a very good reason: that set just isn’t as reliable as the standard set

#

Surprise factor is significantly less important than having a solid game plan with good sets and responses to top threats

#

https://pokepast.es/ad84bba8865c0065 this is a pretty basic version of what Indeedee / Gallade / Bloodmoon TR would look like; I might try some further optimizations if I were using it myself, but I built this in about five minutes with the basic goal of being good enough right out of the box

clever orchid
#

alright i’ll use it an if it’s better i’ll take your word for it

junior tulip
#

Scizor, bulky Garchomp, Swampert core?

torpid moat
#

more like chien pao, espeed dragonite, ogerpon-wellspring

#

the mons you listed are just kinda bad

#

and the 3 wouldn't really be good together in any oldgen either

peak crypt
#

I would say try it in DPP DOU but Chomp is banned there

junior tulip
peak crypt
#

Flygon sucks and has always sucked :(

#

It’s not even good in ADV where the spread mechanics work differently (and in Earthquake’s favor)

slow pike
upbeat plume
#

https://pokepast.es/ad449d8e0bf9e98f
Trick room team with Farigiraf and Mimikyu as trick room set up
Amoonguss as support for trick room and for sweeper
Torkoal as a sweeper
Iron hands as fake out support and damage dealer
Heatran as a backup for Torkoal

#

Probably need a better mon than heatran, because his impact in playing has been minimal

torpid moat
#

lava plume heatran is gonna be very bad for you, just gonna hit your own mons

#

amoong is not a sweeper

#

also, diancie is likely just better than mimikyu here

torpid moat
#

more importantly, follow me will redirect spore for you

#

for the last mon, you could try another support tr setter like sinistcha or cresselia, or another attacker like ursaluna blood moon, or a fast option like hisui-lilligant or walking wake

upbeat plume
upbeat plume
upbeat plume
torpid moat
#

that move is heat wave btw

#

if picking luna, you have to be more careful with your tr setters

#

as you will only have two, and you have torkoal fully dependent on tr

#

also, minimize your torkoal and a few other mon's speed ivs

mystic marlin
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
#

Too many Ice types

#

Snow teams generally aren’t built to be aggressive; they take advantage of Aurora Veil to leverage a more balance-based playstyle

#

And tend to try sticking one or two big threats with Aurora Veil and Fake Out support rather than trying to overwhelm the opponent with lots of threats

mystic marlin
peak crypt
#

To be perfectly honest, I would pick one of Baxcalibur or Kyurem, keep the Ninetales, and drop the rest

#

Bundle is just kind of weak overall, and Chien-Pao generally wants to be on much more aggressive teams

#

and Slowking isn’t really worth running in the first place; Chilly Reception is cute but Slowking struggles to provide anything else meaningful, and that move alone isn’t even good enough to make up for it

#

I know “basically start over” doesn’t feel great as advice, but five Ice types is just such a disadvantage from the start

lone mural
#

I made a team that seems to be really effective most of the time, https://pokepast.es/428da6cb7cc5621c The strategy is to have Chien-Pao, Amoonguss, and Walking Wake be the first one of defense, when those Pokemon die, switch in to pelipper to set up rain dance, then hit Ludicolo with U turn, activating weakness policy, and watch the enemy team fall like flies

#

Wellspring Ogerpon is basically a last resort of all fails.

torpid moat
#

you're going to lose to things like opposing waterpon and rilla, or defensive wincons like archaludon or raging bolt

#

or anything that can cancel rain

#

you just can't have this many waters and grasses on the same team

#

if you want a more classic rain approach, look into mons like archaludon, tornadus, gholdengo, landorus-i

#

these still work well with rain but also help cover up its weaknesses

#

if you want something more gimmicky with weakness policy self activation, I guess try kingdra?

#

either with draining kiss comfey or tera + something else

#

having your activator move before your weakness policy mon is very important

#

because then you immediately attack with double damage

#

and of course there are plenty of options that don't depend on rain

#

and if you want something even more practical, there's howl or coaching teams

#

howl from mons like entei or gouging fire, coaching from mew and others

celest dune
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rose juniper
#

imo your team looks fine for a sand team but its just that sand teams are just not that good atm

#

there are a few minor things id change but I don't think it matters a lot

#

is there anything specific you want help with or are struggeling vs?

celest dune
#

it's really hard to play against gholdengo (specially if it has speed control like scarf) and those teams with trick room + guts using ursaluna/conkeldurr or iron hands

#

i can only stop it from running over my team by setting sand and excadrill attacking right away

#

but that's really risky

rose juniper
#

I would say that both are somewhat solvable

#

as I said sand is just not that great of a weather atm but we can work with it, for example your fargiraf could help quite a bit vs TR if you give it imprison

#

and for gholdengo its a bit more difficult but you could remove ogerpon

#

and instead use lando

#

you could even make your lando I sand force if you really want to keep the sandstorm theme on that (sheerforce is better tho)

#

and then for the 4th move slot on lando you could run sandsear or substitute

celest dune
celest dune
#

thanks (:

rose juniper
polar lotus
#

I am not that good at teambuilding, so I can't figure out like who is filling what role, what kinda team is this, I usually lead with incineroar or tornadus, and taunt setup. Ogerpon for grass and water STAB , Gholdengo is a special sweeper with make it rain and nasty plot and ragin bolt for speed control and special bulk. Chien pou for some attack power and the def drop.

peak crypt
#

There isn’t really much you can change without just building a whole new team

#

Samples are chosen as samples because they have been proven several times over

#

The only change you could really make is giving the Chien-Pao Sucker Punch over Protect, or Jolly nature instead of Adamant, but these are lateral moves rather than direct improvements

polar lotus
#

i had sucker punch before on chien pao but with his speed and tailwind setupped, i switched it to crunch for bp

unborn marten
#

!sampleteamrule

halcyon pantherBOT
#

The purpose of this channel is to help a person with their team, if they posted a sample team it’s not something that can’t be helped further as sample teams are looked through by the community and/or person in charge of the thread + and/or council.

unborn marten
#

the very minor base power difference is not a good reason to drop sucker, sucker can pin an opponent, especially when you may not have tailwind up to either force a switch or take a knockout. you also cannot reply on the defense drop from crunch

celest dune
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

torpid moat
#

the main reason to run crunch is to use it offensively against certain targets like cresselia

#

but yeah sucker usually better

junior tulip
#

First doubles team

#

(for reg g)

peak crypt
#

This channel is for Smogon’s DOU format

junior tulip
#

Thx man

real lance
#

DUU Team

#

I want your opinion on my team I made

#

I also did think of using a shed tail orthworm with the moves running with
Iron Defense
Body Press
Shed Tail
Protect

#

Protect while dusclops setting trick room and shed tail in the trick room to switch to a different mon

torpid moat
real lance
#

Back to acid Spray it is

#

I'll replace sandstorm for acid spray

#

so I can still use weather ball goodra

peak crypt
#

Why does your Goodra not have a Dragon move?

real lance
peak crypt
#

I guarantee you a Dragon move is going to be better than any other move you could use

#

especially if it’s Draco Meteor

#

You cannot reasonably expect to only hit things super effective

#

So having a STAB move is always going to be good

real lance
peak crypt
#

It’s always going to be stronger than your coverage moves if you expect something to switch out, or if you just need to click a safe button

#

Whichever one you feel you use the least

#

I’d suggest Ice Beam personally, Dragon/Ice is pretty redundant coverage

#

But remember that Sludge Wave also hits your partner, so it’s a move you can’t always use

#

I think there are a few other issues going on than just “Goodra doesn’t have a Dragon move” but I’ll let Yellow Paint go over those when he has time, because I’m not as familiar with DUU

real lance
torpid moat
#

ah I got busy for a, lemme finish this

#

so manual weather is generally avoided because you have to waste a turn clicking a move to use it

#

if you have to click sunny day/rain dance etc every time you want your heatran or goodra to function, you have to spend a whole extra turn doing so

#

that time could be spent doing something more useful like setting speed control, using a setup move on a better mon, or just attacking and killing something

#

every time you click something like manual sunny day, you have to compare it to volcarona using quiver dance with that same opening

#

anyways as for the mons etc

#

have you considered using ting lu?

#

it's a natural partner for worm because of earthquake and reducing special damage

#

much better than mudsdale

#

if you still want another body press user, look into kommo

#

who ideally would replace the goodra slot because both goodra and sliggoo really suck

#

dusclops is also not ideal because the team is so passive

#

dusclops itself is an extremely passive tr setter, only useful on hard tr teams that are fully dedicated to setting tr, that also have significant amounts of offense to make up for dusclop's passiveness

#

if you want to support a bulky team there are many other options like mew for hazards and pollen puff

#

or screens

#

or passive healing from mons like thwackey

#

same applies to the sliggoo slot

#

also, you want to look into options with immediate offensive power too

#

stuff like zapdos-galar and baxcalibur and meowscarada

#

or cb palafin etc

#

just strong attackers that don't require significant support to function

#

if your team is too slow or passive your opponent may just run over you

real lance
#

So my team is just to passive?

real lance
torpid moat
#

the main problem is that goodra has weak offensive stats

#

it had 110 spa, no boosting ability, middling bp moves

#

compare that to something like sylveon or dragalge

#

dragalge isn't even good but it at least has some real offensive power

real lance
#

Dragalge Special atk is like 97

torpid moat
#

but it has adaptability

real lance
#

True

torpid moat
#

you can also compare with regidrago, who gets the even stronger dragon's maw

devout dove
pale bison
#

i think snorlax would rather be ursa

barren bluff
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

peak crypt
#

I don’t think Clefairy fits here at all

#

Clef typically enables setup attackers, but you have none of those

#

If you really want Clef you could try switching the Amoonguss for a Gholdengo and give the team a more aggressive slant, but right now you have three redirectors and nothing really worth redirecting for

#

Regidrago also usually prefers a damage item, and Hyper Beam is never better than Draco Meteor

chilly wyvern
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

chilly wyvern
#

First team

#

Need advice

brittle spade
#

If you really want a screen setter you should use grimmsnarl instead of slowking

#

But you already have friend guard anyway, and incineroar so it's not needed

#

Archaludon is the best rain Pokémon so I added that

#

And thundurus is a bit wack without its good move and ability

barren bluff
halcyon pantherBOT
#

New [Gen 9] Doubles OU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper, @unborn marten, @tight spire, @peak crypt, @scenic hamlet. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

chilly wyvern
#

I made that yesterday

#

I was running thunder btw cuz can't miss in rain and it's technically a rain team

#

So I'd set up screens and intimidate with incineroar parting shot to suicune for tailwind to swap back to incineroar then parting shot again into archaludon and swap slowking to pelipper drizzle swap again to thunderous and start spamming thunder and electroshot

brittle spade
chilly wyvern
#

Oh its 100% in rain?

#

Didn't know that

#

Ty

#

Ill swap it to therian since im tailwinding and dont need speed

brittle spade
#

Slowking is also one of the worst screen users

#

Use prankster grimmsnarl

chilly wyvern
#

Ik but I always get taunted

#

Ill try grimsnarl

brittle spade
# chilly wyvern Ill try grimsnarl

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Careful Nature

  • Reflect
  • Light Screen
  • Spirit Break
  • Parting Shot
#

If you're getting taunted just switch out

chilly wyvern
#

Alr

#

Ill put that build on rq