Smogon Doubles Rates

[analog root]

Im kinda worried about hazards, specially because i dont have really good defenxe against ground types

[brittle spade]

hazard stacking isn't really that common in dou

[brittle spade]

you're ok into rocks and you have answers to most rockers in the tier

you lead qwilfish volcanion into stuff like landorus or kleavor, works fine

[analog root]

Makes sense

[earnest heath]

https://pokepast.es/467f0206efef32ab
why the fuck did you do this - someone, probably

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[earnest heath]

(disclaimer, this is not my origional team, mostly copied from someone else with a few tweaks)

[torpid moat]

glimm can run sr instead of tspikes, frees up a chansey moveslot

[earnest heath]

well, tspikes are pretty integral to my strategy, so i really want to make sure i can get them up

as well, chansey has more longevity to setup sr, considering half my games i play my glimmora ends up just dying quickly while barfing up a couple of tspikes

[keen summit]

Gen 7 DOU
https://pokepast.es/f6b1f267c5e9b8d6

[analog merlin]

Gen 9 DOU
https://pokepast.es/e0995a08bd5df551

[abstract forge]

I wanted to know, I've noticed that dondozo has fallen off.

HARD

Going from DOU from DNU

[rose juniper]

honestly looks fine to me

you could put tera over a dragon move on wake but it doesn't matter to much

personally im not a fan of the flutter spread but if it works for you I would just rock with it

anything you really struggle vs?

[analog merlin]

ya tbh ive not calced a ton on flutter and am not great at EV spreads, pretty new to comp pokemon in general. Biggest things i feel i struggle with is dragonite rn

feel like its super easy for me to get into a hole and get wiped by e speed

[rose juniper]

oke I get that, in terms of flutter a lot of people run something like 68 Def / 188 SpA / 252 Spe with specs

[analog merlin]

okay, will try that for sure

[rose juniper]

and while you could deal with a Dnite by outplaying your team is indeed not very well equiped for it

you could do 2 things about that

run more tera ghosts on mons that can counter it or a chien pao tera ghost or you run tsareena on it

since her ability blocks prio moves

you could put it over bonnet because both are grass types but you would lose out a little on the sun synergy

but besides that it looks pretty solid to me

maybe a bit problematic vs entry hazards like stealth rocks but those aren't to common

[analog merlin]

Okay, cool, that makes sense can definitely try out tsareena. This is the first ive actually made myself so good to know its decent lol. Been really enjoying the format

[rose juniper]

but if you decide to run tsareena I personally like this set a lot: https://pokepast.es/b24af916b79e719a

[rose juniper]

thats good to hear :))

[analog merlin]

Thanks for the help!

[rose juniper]

I like it max attack but you can also make it more defensive

[rose juniper]

np happy to help and if there is anything else just @ me

[analog merlin]

Sounds good!

[torpid moat]

this team would be better with cb zyg instead of chomp, but also you're quite weak to opposing kyube

try at least sr mew instead of whirlwind, or run koko instead of zapdos

or both

mew can be your twind, a second isn't mandatory

[dire flint]

Tatsurigi was banned so it can no longer use the commander gimmick

[weary dirge]

XY DOU https://pokepast.es/d6cb7002b1146d82

No clue if you need an image or not, but here you go anyway

[torpid moat]

we don't need an image

scizor is worse than genesect in pretty much every way

mence is almost always just mono-flying coverage, it wants to spend its moveslots on tailwind or dd and protect

actually yeah you need more protect as well

[peak crypt]

your Scizor has Assault Vest and Swords Dance

[earnest heath]

https://pokepast.es/ec08be581d0e2363
the basis of this team is to enable the setup sweepers as much as possible with the other 4 pokemon
arcanine provides intim support, threatens burn on physical attackers, and can also snarl down special attackers
ting lu is a powerful special wall, and snarl + vessel of ruin can make special attacks do baby damage, sand tomb is there to maybe trap weak pokemon
chansey is there to heal and tank hits, 4th move is kinda iffy, maybe twave or even charm would be better
amoongus heals, spores, and redirects attacks
goodra boosts its defense and becomes almost unkillable while dealing heavy damgae with body press or heavy slam
garganacl also boosts defense, heals itself, does big damge with body press, and maybe salt cures? salt cure is another move im iffy on, maybe protect wide guard or even curse rockslide would be better

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[earnest heath]

any suggestions for different support pokemon or setup sweepers are appreciated

[earnest junco]

The biggest problem with this team is you just have no damage

You have a ton of stuff thats difficult to remove but you also can’t really do significant damage to anything without multiple turns of setup

So anything that prevents that setup just autowins

Because you literally cant break their team and they just hit your stuff really hard

There are also moveset problems but the biggest problem is this team is it fundamentally doesnt really work

[earnest heath]

should i try replacing one of the defense boosters with a different setup pokemon like iron hands

[earnest junco]

Cresselia > chansey and palafin > garganacl is already pretty significantly better

Heatran > arcanine is probably also needed because right now flutter mane clicks the moonblast button and everything here gets 2hkod

Other than that if you fix the ting lu moveset (spikes or stealth rock > sand tomb) and its probably playable into most things

[earnest heath]

for flutter currently i try to save a tera for it or ohko with goodra

[earnest junco]

Yeah but heatran gives you consistent lines into it that dont require burning a tera

[keen summit]

I forgot to say thank you
Thanks

[torpid moat]

yw

[keen summit]

Gen 7 DOU, I like the venusaur, vest genesect (checks Lele better), volcanion core
https://pokepast.es/c4b26986b020f2d7

[torpid moat]

venu teams need to have multiple solid kyube answers, the av gene is a good start but I consider your own koko + kyube to just be conditional checks

you're also relatively weak to megagross

hmm, now that I think about it opposing kyube is playable

but you definitely want wisp mew, let's say over taunt

you should also prob have more pinch berries, I'm personally a fan of pinch koko over lo

[vapid marlin]

[Gen 9] DOU

I never played Pokemon and all I knew about Pokemon were few episodes that I randomly caught on TV as a kid.

Recently I accidently stumbled upon Wolfey and then PChall Pokemon VGS and Nuzlocks videos and I actually got interested in playing Pokemon myself... for some reason.

So, I watched a few videos and based on those videos made my team. I didn't do any EVs and let Showdown choose those for me.
All I did is select moves that was commonly used through out videos and that's it... Well, except for Tornadus, people from reddit suggested to me to use it.

https://pokepast.es/11b5e94ce90158f7

Anyways, I think this team is good since I managed to climb up from 1000 (I got downed here when I just starts learning what enemy pokemons can do and what weak to what) to 1240... which... means something I guess?

UPD: Forgot to add: While Flattermane and Chi Yu we’re also Omni present, I decide to not use them mainly because I just don’t like them.

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[dire flint]

It may be worth considering removing Gyarados it isn’t a viable Pokemon in the current meta
I would recommend dropping body slam on Garchomp for rock slide, body slam isn’t very useful and rock slide allows you to do spread damage and hit flying types
Rain dance is unnecessary on Tornadus as setting rain doesn’t do much for your team, protect may be more useful

Since you’re new to Doubles I would recommend checking out recourses on forums to get a better idea of the metagame
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-overview-rules-and-q-a-ask-questions-here-resource-index-inside.3710916/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/

You can also get ideas for evs and movesets from here

[vapid marlin]

Well, for me Gyarados somehow acts like a main Sweeper during most my matches. And I actually find him quite good, since I manage to sneak Dragon Dances and then proceed to sweep with Tera Flying Tera Blasts.
...and he also Pokémon that I truly like right now

But I will think about it, when it gets to the point where Gyarados isn’t really cut it (I guess higher MMR?)

Garchomp - Agree. I just forgot what 4th move usually is and threw Body Slam. Gonna change for Rock Slide for sure.

Rain Dance is my Defensive tool against Fire heavy or just Sun teams while also being a sort of a boost for Gyarados Waterfalls and Iron Bundle Hydro Pump. Just utility that I’m not often use, but still use. Protect is great, but I rarely find opportunity for Thundurus to stay in to justify using it tbf. He is my Lead with Tailwind setup while also being Taunt spammer on Amonguss or other setupers.

Thanks for the links! Not garaunteed that I manage to get a lot from it, but still thanks

[peak crypt]

Gyarados is a good example of a Pokemon that can be very good in VGC but isn't particularly good in DOU

Gyarados is very good into good matchups but pretty mediocre elsewhere, and it doesn't have a lot of good matchups these days

so in VGC you can just not bring it to the battle, but in DOU you're stuck with a Pokemon that probably isn't pulling its weight in most of your games

[heavy root]

So I'm still working on the team as a whole to utilize the support but this is what I've created so far and it's worked really well

Gen 9 DOU

https://pokepast.es/f4a0ba6108dbc59f

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

try something like this https://pokepast.es/5dfcddb29a90abfc

i tried to keep the same pokemon

but overall it's not what you're looking for

especially for maushold and goodra

you want wide lens if you're running population bomb for example

[heavy root]

Usually yea- but to an extent Maushold isn't there for any damage- it's just in case of a Taunt mostly or to finish an enemy if they're low, Maushold is more to prevent any Enemy setup or lock them if they're physical so i can get off Iron defense on Garganacl

[brittle spade]

there are so many better encore or taunt users than maushold

you at least need follow me to justify it

[polar lotus]

gen 9 DOU
https://pokepast.es/e3bff20904238f16

[torpid moat]

hatt isn't very good, it's just too frail of a mon for what you're getting, diancie and even hoopa and armarouge are better offensive tr setters

hydrei is cute, though it basically requires tera to not instantly die

also it would need scope lens to guarantee crits, nasty plot is literally just better

[keen summit]

I don't know gen 9's doubles meta, but since amoongus is slow and probably not outspeeding much, wouldn't it make sense for it to have 0 speed ivs for better trick room performance?

[polar lotus]

oohh

[polar lotus]

ye i fixed it

Is this better?
https://pokepast.es/87aab84214b23352

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

Not really

What is it that you want that slot to do?

[peak crypt]

@polar lotus ^

[polar lotus]

what

[polar lotus]

i didnt get it

[peak crypt]

What kind of role do you want the Pokémon in that slot to fill?

The Armarouge isn’t really an improvement over the Hatterene; are you looking to add a Trick Room user?

[polar lotus]

yes

a trick room user

[abstract forge]

https://pokepast.es/1bf128d740700b6c gen 8 DOU. First time trying it out.

[polar lotus]

I'm doing a rain team
https://pokepast.es/f4aec1ff56895506

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[polar lotus]

I need some advice, is there something I need changing?

[scarlet chasm]

@torpid moat
https://pokepast.es/248daa6b7d546330

Hows this HO team with screens

[rose juniper]

it looks pretty decent but there are a few things I would change

since your palafins main damage output is gonna be jetpunch you don't have to invest speed and it can be worth it to go full HP instead, something like 248hp/252atk/8spef or def

and adamant

for the lando you really want sandsear storm

since that can't miss in rain

personally im a big damp rock > eject button for peli believer so thats something I recommend but ik its not as populair so do with that whatever you want

and you also for lando might want to trade in blast for protect since EP or sandsear storm covers most thing that blast does anyways

in terms of the basc you could opt for a choiceband and swiftswim instead since you will be doing slightly more damage and you will also be quite a lot faster but that does require rain so adapt and scarf also is viable but its something to consider

also maybe a grass tera type for the basc so you can't get spored, rage powdered and you resist electric type moves

I personally think that the bundle is the weakest link here and you could trade that in for something like tsareena or something else but its also completely fine to keep it

hope that helps :))

[torpid moat]

I don't recommend using oricorio ever, it's too inflexible and weak and predictable compared to just using good mons

dancer is an incredible ability, but oricorio just sucks too much to use

screens also don't seem particularly helpful to your team, life orb pao is still too frail for the bulk boost to really do anything

[scarlet chasm]

@torpid moat Quiver Dance Volcarona, Quiver Dance Oricorio with Dancer and Among us is a hard hitting core right?

[torpid moat]

no, it's not

because qd volc isn't reliable in all matchups, especially without enough support, and oricorio sucks

[torpid moat]

looks reasonable, quite weak to rilla though

[queen willow]

3a naga looks nice over shifu

I would also prob use av meta

Since this is pretty weak to oppo naga and fini av feels nice

Oh also stomping over eq on meta

[abstract forge]

I'm not really worried about Nadel as it's not really that great to its exploitable frailty.

Rillaboom is more prominent and is more threatening to the team.

[queen willow]

Its nice to have an easy way of dealing with it because opposing tailwind in general is scary

[abstract forge]

I usually find it easy to deal with anyway as My pokemon either destroy it or inciniroar just parting shots it and now it can't really do anything.

[marble delta]

https://pokepast.es/58f9b989ca8734dd

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[marble delta]

this my first time making a team so help is appreciated.

[torpid moat]

you could try tailwind naga instead of whims, if av metagross I don't think you'll absolutely need a whims for tailwind

[torpid moat]

it looks like you're copying singles sets, for example amoong's role in doubles is to use rage powder and spore, not synthesis and toxic

be sure to use the "Doubles" tab when using smogdex

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/post-9399767

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

I recommend using these two threads as well, because the mon choice also looks like singles ou rather than doubles

note that doubles ou has a completely different banlist from singles, stuff like flutter mane and palafin is legal here

[marble delta]

oh ok thank you

[polar lotus]

Is there anything else I should change about this team?
And what should be my leads?
https://pokepast.es/ccff127eaefbf9c2

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rose juniper]

Looks absolutelty fine to me

[abstract forge]

CC CB Palafin has fallen out of favor. A bulk up drain punch jet punch set should do the trick.

[peak crypt]

nah this definitely isn't the team for Bulk Up

if you're playing rain you want CB

Mystic Water is fine too but rain usually opts for CB

Tera Water CB Wave Crash in rain will one shot pretty much anything

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 244 HP / 128+ Def Amoonguss in Rain: 391-460 (90.9 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

[abstract forge]

https://pokepast.es/8228b8b493dc246c Is this good?

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[abstract forge]

Because I've lost to 3 gimmicky teams already. And it's clear that Volcanon and Kleavor are problematic.

[abstract forge]

@torpid moat

[torpid moat]

try specs flutter, and potentially kingambit instead of heatran

also do water tera rilla

[abstract forge]

I use Tran over gambit as a check to flutter to hit it hard and to take hits. Similar deal with other special attackers. It also provides a valuable fire immunity.

[torpid moat]

there's not much to do then other than play more conservatively with your palafin then

ah hang on

you don't necessarily need tr cress

amoong over cress + rila slot could work, then you add another legit attacker

alternatively you cut grimm

grimm + cress is a little too passive

[dire flint]

Tsareena should probably be Tera Fire or Steel instead of grass

[abstract forge]

I'm going to try Ddnite as it provides immediate offense.

[torpid moat]

I'd sooner have cb dnite or hands

dd dnite isn't actually that offensive on its own, especially on on-pao teams

[abstract forge]

That's what I was referring to. CB Dnite. I'm already aware that DD Dnite isn't that great.

[abstract forge]

Ok after a bit of testing, yea, the removal of Grimm and Cress isn't helping things.

The team SEVERELY lacks the bulk to take hits which leads to worsening things.

The reason why I had room was because I wanted to remove trick room crap which in my thought process was reasonable enough, and it really helped against tailwind which is also very prevalent.

[torpid moat]

I said grimm or cress, not both

amoong + grimm for example should be enough bulk

[abstract forge]

Wait then why did you say this? How do I add another attacker if I only have 6 slots?

Wait.

Oh god TundraRage you're an idiot.

https://tenor.com/view/face-palm-gif-20569409

I misread it.

My apologies.

[keen summit]

Gen 7 dou
Overall seems to be a decent team, but I get destroyed by kommo-o. Am I bad or is the team vulnerable?
https://pokepast.es/1bc564b47d8b9a89

[peak crypt]

Definitely vulnerable

Double Leech Seed is a little weird imo

[keen summit]

Weird = bad or weird = uncommon?

[peak crypt]

little of column A little of column B

stacking wincons isn't horrible but this one in particular isn't a great one to stack

[polar lotus]

Gonna double check to see if there is something to change about this team./

https://pokepast.es/565817f9aed50d69

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

looks ok, i'd run protect on landorus, tera ghost on chien pao, a bit of speed on palafin and adamant on basculegion

[coral warren]

@polar lotus

here

[polar lotus]

oi

team is just above

[coral warren]

well first, use basu male

[polar lotus]

why?

[tawdry shale]

Basceuligion male has higher attack

[coral warren]

ah i'm on shit its ubers for some reason

[tawdry shale]

oh this is DOU

goodbye

[coral warren]

tbh i'll say to swap Tsareena

and make palafin bulk up

[polar lotus]

swap Tsareena with what?

[rocky mortar]

yeah not very into DOU but 2 Band Users doesnt seem like the best idea

[coral warren]

lemme make sum changes... doin it rn

[rocky mortar]

make the Palafin BU for sure

[coral warren]

yay bella agrees w my advice!

[polar lotus]

sure go ahead

[coral warren]

lol its funny bc i rated ur teams before

and all of ur guys are named after omori characters :)

[coral warren]

bella whats a good bulk up set

i run max max

hp + attack

is there like a standard one? i can't find it

nvm found it

[coral warren]

https://pokepast.es/9a086d25c2f0ccda

i made some changes, made pala bulk up, swapped the plant queen or whatever for rilla

[rocky mortar]

i dont know i think Max and either max SpD or Atk is the way

[coral warren]

fakeout support + recovery for bulk up pala and swapped some teras around

[coral warren]

yeah the sample said spd + hp + adamant

[polar lotus]

you wanna know my strat for palafin?

[polar lotus]

Omori is cool

Also, my whole thing with Palafin is that I tailwind with Pelipper first, and Peli has to die before the tailwind timer is up, so when Palafin comes in I can flip turn and you know what happenes from there.

however I can understand why you change it, since sometimes Pelipper can die before it can Tailwind, or get taunted.

[rose juniper]

2 band is fine depanding on the team

but on rain pala prefers to run band

[keen summit]

Gen 7 dou
https://pokepast.es/cb6b3eb54658378c

[rose juniper]

I don't feel the most confident in rating gen 7 since the last time I played that was when it ended but since no one else is rating this ill try for what its worth

Id say that overall the most improvement can be made with some new pokemon choices but if you wanna keep the 6 you got now thats also completely fine

So do you wanna keep the same 6?

[keen summit]

I'm not attached to the 6 I have, go ahead with suggestions

[rose juniper]

Alr im on my phone rn so its a bit clunky but lets take a look

I take it that shaymin is mainly there for tw support?

You know what, I should be at my pc in around an hour or so

Ill help you when im back at my pc because this is actually quite difficult on phone haha

[keen summit]

Np, ping me when ready

[rose juniper]

alright im now at my PC and I since the team is called new metagross psyspam I assume thats the whole idea behind the team so ill leave that for what it is. I loaded the team up for myself and played a bit around with it vs a friend and made some changes along the way and this is what I came up with: https://pokepast.es/dc47d99b0b5a493c
I left the 3 psychic core and made some minor changes, your team is already fine but it was (for me atleast) lacking something and mainly offensive pressure. I opted for a kartana over shaymin, it keeps a grass pokemon on the team and it keeps the tailwind support, while kartana is ofc way more spdef frail it does make up for that a little with its great defense stat. This just gives more offensive pressure to the team and helps with getting momentum which was the main thing I struggled with. I switched the Z move from volc to lando who is imo a better user of it, volc already benefits quite a bit from the 50% berries because of its bulk and lando could do with some more offense. I also changed the lele to modest because to my knowledge you don't outspeed anything useful by being timid scarf (I could be wrong tho since I havent played this in a while)

@keen summit

as I said im not the most confident in gen 7 rating but since no one else was rating it I thought id do it anyways, hope it helped :))

[keen summit]

It's better than nothing, thanks!
Is reaching speed ties important? You're right in that modest Lele doesn't outspeed anything useful except timid Lele

[urban summit]

https://pokepast.es/21947a606b30b78c

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[urban summit]

this vail bulky offense is good

[peak crypt]

My guy you gotta learn how to use punctuation on forums, that post was so hard to read

Team looks fine though

With no natural Water resists you might struggle against rain, especially Rain Dance Tornadus

since they can stop you from using Veil

[jovial root]

english might not be their first language tbf

[brittle spade]

people run bulk on flutter mane to avoid stuff like this :
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 234-276 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

also this spread is more efficient for farigiraf and makes it more bulky :
EVs: 72 HP / 92 Def / 252 SpA / 92 SpD

[rancid anvil]

https://pokepast.es/04b031c2440a901c

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rancid anvil]

im cooking

[torpid moat]

dancer is really gimmicky and bad

though are you aware ludicolo gets dancer now?

[rancid anvil]

wait what

[torpid moat]

but yeah clangorous soul isn't even worth copying

all your mons are just gonna die

[rancid anvil]

but i love dancer

[torpid moat]

at least try it with qd

that version at least gets more broken options like copying revelation dance/fiery dance/petal dance etc

it's still not good though

[ivory acorn]

https://pokepast.es/2178260d683ba8cb anything i should change? Its for double ubers

[urban summit]

Sucker can be prevented by ferigeraf also vail

[remote edge]

does it?

[brittle spade]

that was a myth

[brittle spade]

right now miraidon, trick room and calyrex-shadow would plow through your team, you need resists and answers for them

[torpid moat]

oh it was damn

[peak crypt]

@ivory acorn I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Kyogre is awful in DUbers right now

just complete dogshit

Koraidon and Miraidon are arguably the best two Pokemon in the format and they both beat Kyogre into a pulp

and Groudon is also very good because of the general lack of Ground immunities

[urban summit]

yes dyslexia isn‘t helping either

[warm mica]

https://pokepast.es/56caa25da1884415 mamoswine's a filler until i figure something out

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[warm mica]

might switch freeze dry for blizzard

[strange sable]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesubers-1953817902-ug7vj3w6769aikrojg2ula4bzynhdy3pw
+1 here

[warm mica]

so how did the annihilape not have defiant?

like were they expecting to run into amoongus? cause Ape is immune to fake out

[peak crypt]

It’s Scarf Final Gambit

Getting an Attack boost doesn’t really matter because your goal is to die turn 1

[warm mica]

i take it it involves maxing HP and Speed evs to ensure you go first unless you get hit by webs or prankster scary face??

[peak crypt]

Yep

[peak crypt]

As far as this team goes, I think Cresselia is a really strong last slot

Your team is already very slow, so having a TR setter to push things along seems like a good plan

[warm mica]

so replace Mamo?

[peak crypt]

Yeah

Mamoswine is unfortunately pretty mediocre these days

Power creep caught it pretty quick honestly, it’s been that way for a few generations now

[midnight crystal]

I think replacing the lando slot for iron bundle and mamo for cress as Arctic mention would make this a really solid semi-room team

[warm mica]

wait, could bundle be a faster veil setter?

cause then i could put a coverage move on atales like tera blast

[midnight crystal]

That is not a good idea I don't think

A tails isn't the strongest attacker you would want bundle to be the one spamming attacks

[warm mica]

ah

[midnight crystal]

You could run like specs blizzard on bundle

[warm mica]

might go for a more defensive spread for atales then

[midnight crystal]

I think max hp max speed is fine

You could also try encore

And use only one attack

[warm mica]

cause i might protect lock some fool

sounds like a plan

[warm mica]

https://pokepast.es/b202bbd4bdf8522a might change bundle's type to water, as for cress's item, well i did copy paste off of the recommended spreads and changed psychic for psyshock, but i'm hoping i don't run into many rival amoonguses

might switch helping hand for ally switch and really annoy the enemy

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1953874849 probably should have protected agaisnt the first DE and faked out the staraptor when he was low, overrall not too bad for my first run with this team

okay so soundproof electrode's an issue for bm luna

[midnight crystal]

Don't worry thats not real

[warm mica]

i did run into one

[mild oak]

yay it finally open again

[warm mica]

Hmm ran into a complication with weather wars

Might have to run Abomasnow instead of someone else

Can't drop amoongus blood moon or cress, but I need an answer for gastrodon

[torpid moat]

freeze dry?

gastro sucks though

also leaf storm amoong is once again on the table in current meta

[warm mica]

Hmm

Oh yeah

Hmm maybe I should go AV burn instead, just to take a hit on the special side

As powerful as specs is I may need to reconsider the stat spread and item for bundle

Maybe investment into HP and defenses just to take a hit in snow and veil

Would give me a chance to use flip turn too

Or I could give bundle a defensive tera type and bolt beam

Iirc from that match with a gastro+Basculegion my Bundle got decimated by someone

[midnight crystal]

When building for this tier try your best to understand the roles each of your pokemon play. You can ev your bundle to eat more hits and be bulkier but for what reason? You would then have very little damage outside of trick room and weaken you're team over all. The purpose of the bundle isn't to kill things that resist ice, you wanna get it into a position where it can spam ice moves

[warm mica]

with the council likely banning Ursaluna BM to ubers, i need to do recalculations, specifically about my slow bulky special attacker in DOU and how to work with Bloodmoon in Dubers, there aren't many Uber specific Trick roomers that can work

[queen willow]

Thats for singles

Not doubles

[warm mica]

ah

they haven't tested Bloodmoon for doubles?

[queen willow]

No

And 99% wont with ursaluna regular in the tier

[warm mica]

https://pokepast.es/aa4fe5d3e10eb5af could go with a different form of speed control like fast sleep powder Hisuigant or T-Wave Hex

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

I think this team would be objectively better with rilla over mienshao and glide over horn leech oger

also give lando stomping over taunt

if you really wanna keep mienshao it's av protect and is missing cc

[warm mica]

why protect on Vest? just in case it gets knocked off?

[misty solar]

https://pokepast.es/4fdf7ce663835085

Hello please rate my team, feel free to give some advice and make changes.

[torpid moat]

you currently have protect vest

I'm telling you to replace it

or better yet not use mienshao

[warm mica]

oh goddamn it i thought i had something else on there

[torpid moat]

what format is this, natdex dou?

[warm mica]

anways, all fixed now

[midnight crystal]

With the assumption this is supposed to be nd dou

You're rillaboom should be more of a supportive set, Try Assault Vest with fake out to give it more utility

Not a big fan of pert on rain truthfully but if you are gonna run it should be high horsepower over eq

Get rid of Chansey it's doing nothing for this team. A strong steel type could go into this slot

Get rid of killowatrell it is not a good pokemon, use tornadus in this slot

Alternatively you could use mega scizor as the steal and use a different rain abuser than pert

Like Basculegion ot urshifu

[queen willow]

Dracovish.

[midnight crystal]

Dracovish.

[rose juniper]

ill also give my opinion as a rain connoisseur and rater

Dracovish.

(actually a very solid pick, I prefer adamant scarf aldo jolly also works)

also if you don't like tornadus a lot but you like killowatrl

zapdos is a good alternative

since its kind of the better kilowatterel

or how ever you spell that name

also you are missing a lot of rest EVs

a lot of your pokemon have 252/252 spreads meaning you can still give them 4 EVs into something else

I say a lot but its only 2 actually but never the less

[queen willow]

I think jolly is needed to outspeed pao

Jolly scarf hits 408 and the 135s are 405

[misty solar]

https://pokepast.es/0aa5a86cb4b142d8

Can someone rate my natdex ou team

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[remote edge]

this is the dou channel @misty solar

half of these are ubers in natdex I think anyways

[misty solar]

I can’t type in anything else

[peak crypt]

Then you will have to wait for the correct channel to reopen

[misty solar]

Ok sir

[worldly sable]

pretty sure baxca, Gengar mega and darmanitan galar are banned

click here next time

ignore the team btw ik it sucks

[rose juniper]

Oh true I completely forgot that, I still have the gen 8 speed tiers in mind where running jolly over adamant only let you outspeed koko and some other unrelevant mons

[royal cobalt]

Hi guys uwu rate trick room team pls teehee

[peak crypt]

are you aware of how Prankster Trick Room works

there are numerous issues with this team but let's get that one out of the way first @royal cobalt

[warm mica]

No amoongus, No Facade, no fake out (but that's just my opinion), actively give protosynths an edge, i can see way too many flaws in the teqm

Also klefki over something bulkier like Cresselia or even Pory2 when Indigo Disk comes out??

Also, Icy Wind on a trick room team is gonna backfire on you

[royal cobalt]

Yeah icy wind is pretty stupid of me

[royal cobalt]

No

Ohhh

Just searched it up

That absolutely useless

[peak crypt]

Basically it “doesn’t” work; Trick Room still has a very negative priority

Yeah

[royal cobalt]

So what other issues would you say my team has

[peak crypt]

The sets are generally pretty bad; Hoopa-U isn’t great, Torkoal can’t click Lava Plume without hitting an ally, Ursaluna has Double-Edge and not Facade for some reason, and all of these Pokémon lack Protect

[royal cobalt]

I forgot facade yes

How is hoopa bad?

160 atk 170 spatk

[peak crypt]

And base 60 Defense

Hoopa tends to get a single KO and then die

[royal cobalt]

Oh

I made this entire team for hoopa

[peak crypt]

and when your typical performance is trading a KO for a KO, you end up kind of mediocre

It isn’t the worst thing you could use but I think Choice Band is a pretty weak set

[royal cobalt]

Ok imma scrap my trick room team

I have another one

My main team

[peak crypt]

Nah I think this one can be salvaged

[royal cobalt]

This one's my main

[peak crypt]

Hoopa learns TR itself, you can shuffle a couple slots around and get something pretty cool

[royal cobalt]

Hmm maybe

Is this team also dogshit

[peak crypt]

That team is in fact worse, and there’s not really a way to improve it without changing pretty much the entire identity of the team

As for the TR one, I think there are a couple decent options

Change Hoopa to Life Orb with Hyperspace Fury / Psychic / Trick Room / Protect

This gives you a third TR setter and frees up the Klefki slot for a stronger Pokémon

Dusclops should probably be swapped out for Cresselia, who plays very well with Ursaluna

[royal cobalt]

But how can hoopa be a trick room setter

It's frail

[peak crypt]

If you go for Cress, Ursaluna itself wants Protect over Headlong Rush and no other changes

Hoopa isn’t great as a TR setter, but if your other TR setters are Cress and Diancie, you’ll probably be fine at keeping TR up, and Hoopa just has it as backup

The key thing is that Hoopa really wants Protect

Protect is kind of just the best move in DOU; it’s a little tricky to learn, but learning how to use Protect well opens up so many more strategies and opportunities in game

[royal cobalt]

But the moment hoopa uses trick room won't something be able to kill it in that turn

[peak crypt]

You only use Trick Room with Hoopa when something can’t KO it, or when you make a read that they won’t try

Hoopa does have decent Special Defense; you can force it against some stuff like Heatran

As far as other sets go: Torkoal is a little awkward on this team since it isn’t using Drought to support anything

Do you have a specific thing you want Torkoal to do?

We might be able to swap it for something a little more fitting, or find a replacement for Klefki that complements Torkoal a little better

[royal cobalt]

I was thinking torkoal is pretty strong with eruption

With drought it's eruptions become crazy strong

[true locust]

https://pokepast.es/8bc843167adcac55

plz rate

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

4/7

fr you need much better support if you're gonna use dancer

you're using the wrong oricorio too

[true locust]

which one then?

[brittle spade]

i'll send you a paste

gimme a minute

you want the ghost one since it's not weak to fake out

[brittle spade]

you'd want something like this https://pokepast.es/176c5fda0ae52097

it's much easier to setup with redirection and fake out

[true locust]

who do I started with?

[brittle spade]

depends

there's never a standard lead in doubles

you can lead kommo-o clefairy if you're afraid of a KO

you can lead volcarona oricorio if you're greedy etc

you need to think of the correct lead anyway if you don't want to chain defeats until your gimmick works

[brittle spade]

forgot the oricorio tera https://pokepast.es/2c90dfe7d9af5441

[worldly sable]

Anyone familiar with DUber? ik this isn't the right channel but idk where to post
https://pokepast.es/2f2947b1dd9c8e64

I'm tired of trick room teams

[brittle spade]

this is indeed the channel for DUbers

and i am an experienced (fake) DUbers rater

[brittle spade]

put blunder policy tera ghost on darkrai imo

[worldly sable]

it did have blunder policy before

but

every

godd**

timr

trick room

so idk what else to put

[brittle spade]

switching out darkrai for another mon would help your trick room matchup

[worldly sable]

for who?

most trick room abusers are psychic

[brittle spade]

for a slower mon

lemme look real fast

there's grimmsnarl, magearna, zamazenta or rillaboom

which can provide disruption/support

protect on zacian would also help

[peak crypt]

Grimmsnarl puts up Screens to limit the damage TR can do

Agree with Protect on Zacian and on removing Darkrai

Though part of that is just “Dark Void is awful because Miraidon is the best Pokémon in the format”

Moving some of Groudon’s Attack EVs to Special Defense will help too

[royal cobalt]

https://pokepast.es/ccd6524354a181da

Arcticblast ik u said it was bad

But like what about it

[worldly sable]

funny enough I never encountered a miraidon

just trick room

[peak crypt]

What is your current ladder rating @worldly sable

[worldly sable]

1400-1500 I think

[peak crypt]

Ladder on crack as usual I guess

[peak crypt]

Cinderace and Azelf are almost completely irredeemable in DOU, Shiftry is barely usable, Murkrow is outclassed by Tornadus, and Diancie just doesn’t fit on a team this fast

[worldly sable]

I'm not familiar with double EVs so can you tell me?

[peak crypt]

In tournament play I think I’ve been running 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 SpD Adamant

My computer is a few hundred miles away right now so I can’t check my most recent spreads

Sorry, 224 SpD

204 was my Assault Vest spread

[royal cobalt]

How is shiftry bad?

I thought Tailwind boosted shiftry was cracked

[peak crypt]

Brambleghast is both faster and more powerful, and immune to Fake Out, and still only sees niche use

There is not much hope for Shiftry

[royal cobalt]

But wind rider

[midnight crystal]

Bramble gets that too

It can fake out but like rillaboom does that better

And shifty really shouldn't be your tw setter

[plush otter]

how does this sunroom team look? https://pokepast.es/69148fa522132088

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[dire flint]

the walking wake's hp evs should go into speed because it needs to outspeed mons outside of trick room
kingambit doesn't fit well on this team due to psychic terrain blocking sucker punch, I think ursuluna would be a better fit
having both chi yu and armarouge is redundant, it may be better to replace one of them with a different mon such as Flutter Mane or Lilligant Hisui

[plush otter]

k, for lilligant H, should I bother to invest in speed?

[dire flint]

yes, it should be max speed in order to speed tie with booster energy iron bundle

or if you don't want to do that 244 with a speed boosting nature to outspeed booster energy flutter but I don't think the extra 8 hp evs are worth it

[charred marten]

oh what the room is

[brittle spade]

people submit their teams and ask for a rating or improvement on a competitive point of view.

[charred marten]

oh

[brittle spade]

if you submit your scl team here we can give you some feedback but your opponent might see it

[charred marten]

ic

[brittle spade]

it's mostly trying to help people use Dancer or Wind rider in Dubers

[charred marten]

wow

heat

[rose juniper]

Or people submitting vgc teams

[midnight crystal]

Drop the pokepast.es

See the button that says upload to pokepaste

Click it

And then copy the link

[shell arrow]

id like some advice on whether this team is viable in DOU or not. This team is basically a hazards+phazing team. Hippowdon is the sand setter, phazer and checks Gholdengo. Cress heals the team with Lunar blessing, sets up TR, and checks amoongus and Lando-T/Lando-I, Goodra-H is a stopgap to rain offense cna phaze with Dragon tail and heal with life dew. Kleavor sets up sr and js my main lead to chi yu+flutter mane leads. Chesnaught is also vv good against Chi yu+flutter mane but i must commiy to a tera. 12 evs in def ensures the OHKO on chi yu with Body press. Toxapex? trash. but i wanted a water type that was not weak to rilla grassy glide and can spread poison. Id say toxapex is the most replaceable member.

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[shell arrow]

https://pokepast.es/c84dc7c062fbe640

[peak crypt]

Stall is bad if you aren’t really, really good at DOU

As it stands your team is just waiting for an opponent to click a setup move and end your whole career

Putting Iron Defense on the Chesnaught would be a start but really it’s hard to fix this team without completely reworking it

[shell arrow]

There are ways to beat set up I think. Like roar, dragon tail and haze in the team

[peak crypt]

Yeah, and all of those “ways to beat setup” also just lose to Flutter Mane and Chi-Yu clicking spread moves at the same time

[shell arrow]

Oof

Does stall really have no viability in the current meta? I see the meta becoming more ad more HO oriented and I thought stall might just counter HO team styles

[midnight crystal]

This just isn't q good stall team for starters

[torpid moat]

stall has pretty much never been viable in doubles

it's just inherently weak there

also, stall beats defensive balance teams, not ho

hard tr beats ho

we'll get to it

[shell arrow]

Rip stall my beloved

[torpid moat]

armor indeedee comps are pretty much inferior to flutter chi yu

pao dnite also heavily clashes with indeedee on the team

you'd rather start with rilla ogerpon-hearthflame chien pao dragonite

if you want a legit priority spam 4x

[midnight crystal]

There's also issues like

Choice Scarf + tailwind

I would understand why that may sound like a good idea but it is not

Are there any updated flutter + chi yu teams public @torpid moat maybe this person would like a team that can spam spread moves freely

[torpid moat]

@polar lotus do you want flutter chi yu or priority spam?

https://pokepast.es/4771c22eb461e83e

this one's a bit of a joke team bc of the volbeat but it exists

[peak crypt]

It’s less that “oh no stall is dead in doubles now” and more that stall has never been a widely viable comp in doubles

It’s just too slow for a format that is inherently fast paced and it’s too easy to pick apart

Which is why I said “stall is bad unless you’re really, really good”

You need a very good read on the format in order to build and play stall, and even then it’s unlikely to find consistent success

[royal cobalt]

Is this a good brambleghast set

[peak crypt]

None of your moves can miss so Blunder Policy will never activate

[queen willow]

polter can

but its not likely

[peak crypt]

Before DLC all the Brambleghast were Power Whip, Shadow Sneak, Tera Blast, and one of Protect or Strength Sap with Focus Sash

Now it can run Polt instead of using Tera Blast

[royal cobalt]

I remember that with cinderace I was constantly missing Pyro balls

90% acc

What item should I give brambleghast then

[midnight crystal]

Idk what's best on bramble truthfully but I think focus Sash strength sap set is super funny

[royal cobalt]

I gave it wide lens

So now polt should never miss

[royal cobalt]

What do u think so far

And what should my 6th be

[shell arrow]

Thanks for the advice

What team style would you say requires the player to make the least amount of reads/predictions in order to simply stay consistent. The problem I have with the current HO-esque meta is that I often encounter situations where I have to make one specific 50/50 in order to win, and I hate that. Which lead me to think that stall "might" be a good solution to this dilemma since I was under the impression that players playing stall won't have to encounter this sort of 50/50s too often

e.g
Opponent: Leads Indeedee-F and Armarouge
Me: Are they gonna follow me+TR or Helping Hand+Expanding Force

So instead of dealing with this 50/50, why not make a team where I don't care whether or not they choose either option. Simply put my play is the same regardless of which combination they pick.

[royal cobalt]

that would be a perfect team

and it doesnt exist

[torpid moat]

the closest you'll get to something formulaic like that is hard trick room

which has matchups it can autowin in but also ones it is heavily disfavored for

and hard tr still needs nuanced play at a higher level

[midnight crystal]

The beginning of the meta will always very offensive especially on ladder. If you're looking for a slow and simple playstyle though screens are usually the way to go

[torpid moat]

oh yeah screens is fair too

you need to position correctly though

[midnight crystal]

Yeah

I'm sure the ting lu wo chien fat kinda style would still work

Well

Maybe when the meta settles a little

[torpid moat]

rn it'll get melted by oger

[midnight crystal]

It's time we fee dachsbun stall

[torpid moat]

mold breaker

[midnight crystal]

Nvm.

[royal cobalt]

what you think

idk what my 6th should be

[midnight crystal]

You've picked 3 fire weaks and have 0 resist that's usually not a good sign

I'd definitely get rid of cress

Maybe heatran instead of gholdengo

I'm really trying to think of a way to justify using brambleghast because ogerpon is so much better

If brambles absolutely has to stay you maybe go dragonite + iron hands last

If not you swap brambleghast for ogerpon and go dragonite +rillaboom last

[royal cobalt]

Heatran instead of gholdengo sounds good

But why is cresselia bad

[midnight crystal]

Even if it's not tr you want cress on a bulkier type of team

It's too passive to justify otherwise

[royal cobalt]

I thought icy wind and thunder wave were great

[peak crypt]

Cress is just too slow for a team with Tornadus, Chien-Pao, and Brambleghast

Not in terms of literal speed, but more like

Impact it has on the game

[royal cobalt]

I still don't understand what you mean by slow

Sorry

[torpid moat]

go for it

actually you might want tornadus instead

there's speedy stuff but no speed control

[midnight crystal]

?

^

You should change the vobeat to tornadus

So you have speed control

Not in the paste he sent you? What did you replace for tornadus

[torpid moat]

the volbeat team has a landorus, not a tornadus

[midnight crystal]

Are you talking about landorus?

[nocturne knoll]

rate my ogerpon sand team https://pokepast.es/49dfe14815ae468d

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[nocturne knoll]

the sandslash exists

its decent enough

its carried some games

[royal cobalt]

Whatchu think

[midnight crystal]

Air balloon tran is not good

You have earthquake on your Grassy terrain mon

Make chien icicle crash as to not get rid of your own terrain

Make bramble power whip

Make dnite band

We need big damage

If you make all of those changes

You'd still lose really bad to hearthflame but like you're bramblin

Oh make dnite Tera normal espeed

Make Tran Tera fairy maybe

[midnight crystal]

That sets fine ya

Use Tera ghost/dark

[peak crypt]

Sorry, I should have been a little clearer on that

Doubles is very fast paced, and the speed at which a Pokémon can have an impact on the game is very important

Cresselia is a great Pokémon, but it doesn’t really exert a lot of pressure on the opponent. A lot of bulky Pokémon tend to fall into this, and Cress just happens to be one of the best “slow” Pokémon

[royal cobalt]

ohh

i thought paralysis would be pretty impactful against stuff like dnite or dpult

[peak crypt]

The team as you have it set up now wants to play a really fast paced game; you want to start threatening knockouts as soon as possible

And Cresselia doesn’t really fit that kind of team

[royal cobalt]

ohhh

so what kind of team would cresselia fit into

bc cresselia is the pokemon i started playing dou for

[peak crypt]

Cress fits really well on balance and bulky offense

And Trick Room teams that want to support a setup sweeper like SD Iron Hands

[royal cobalt]

sd?

oh swords dance

[peak crypt]

Pokémon like Landorus-T, Rillaboom, and Heatran are good at creating and stopping offensive pressure

Cresselia thrives in teams where its support can make these Pokémon into game-ending threats

The synergy with setup sweepers comes mostly from Lunar Blessing, which heals both Pokémon for 25% max HP and cures status

This move is good with everything though, not just setup sweepers

(also note that Gholdengo is immune to Lunar Blessing)

[royal cobalt]

i figured this out the hard way

[peak crypt]

Every DOU player has tried to click Helping Hand or Lunar Blessing on a Gholdengo at least once

We all learn.

[royal cobalt]

lol

so my cresselian team could include stuff like krookodile?

because earthquake strong

or would landorus be better

[peak crypt]

Landorus-T has historically been one of the best Pokémon in Doubles because of Intimidate, strong Ground moves, and U-turn

Intimidate makes its decent bulk look much better

And Ground/Flying is pretty decent defensively too

[royal cobalt]

so landorus with like swords dance, quake, protect, and rock slide?

[peak crypt]

Lando-T tends to run either all-out attackers sets with Tera Flying and Tera Blast or bulkier sets with like

Stomping Tantrum, U-turn, Stealth Rock, and one of Taunt, Protect, or Rock Slide

[royal cobalt]

how is stomping tantrum better than quake

[peak crypt]

Earthquake hits your partner

Which you usually can’t guarantee is a Flying type or Levitate mon

Earthquake also deals less damage in Grassy Terrain, which is pretty common with Rillaboom around

On top of that, moves that hit more than one Pokémon deal reduced damage

[royal cobalt]

oh

[royal cobalt]

didnt know that

[peak crypt]

They deal 75% of their normal damage

[royal cobalt]

oof

[midnight crystal]

High horse power now

[royal cobalt]

so is sd not good for landorus t?

[peak crypt]

Wait is Lando a horse now

You lied to me, Jello. It is not a horse.

[midnight crystal]

Oh my fault thought you were talking about monkey

[peak crypt]

Lando-T likes to switch in and out a lot to use Intimidate repeatedly, so Swords Dance usually isn’t as good as its other options

[royal cobalt]

oh makes sense

[royal cobalt]

so lando-t, rillaboom, cresselia, chien pao, dondozo, and goodra-hisui

[alpine zephyr]

Could someone rate this team for me

https://pokepast.es/60bbd8a37f0c3a63

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

it’s currently not even 8 AM eastern

Most of the raters are asleep

[misty solar]

I would change pikachu with zapdos

[alpine zephyr]

@misty solar that's it

What moves would you recommend for it

[misty solar]

Honestly I would just change pikachu with any pivot Pokémon you want it doesn’t have to be zapdos, cuz pikachu is rlly weak.

@alpine zephyr is rotom wash allowed?

[alpine zephyr]

Idk

[worldly sable]

Pikachu is extremely weak and it doesn't make sense to have Sandslash Alola on a team with no snow/hail

I think you're better off just reworking the team but I'm not really knowledgeable with doubles

[alpine zephyr]

I just wanted sandslashas an entry hazard ridder

Hence the rapid spin plus it's pretty tanky

Jus cause it's ability is hail related doesnt mean I can't get use out of it

[worldly sable]

you mean remover

cus rapid spin

There's better stuff for that

and keep in mind hazards aren't as common as in singles

cus less switching going on

[alpine zephyr]

Well would you recommend for sandslash

[peak crypt]

It’s less that there isn’t as much switching and more that games are a lot faster

[alpine zephyr]

Bc I'm determined to use that hisuin arcanine

[worldly sable]

^ this too tho

[peak crypt]

Setting hazards is a bigger risk and clearing them is likewise a bigger risk, because your opponent can deal severe damage if you choose a bad time

[misty solar]

Then build a team revoked around it

[alpine zephyr]

I made a perfect one and I just want a decent to surround it and for my team to cover they're weaknesses

Idk how

Hence y I asked if the team was good

[peak crypt]

Hisuian Arcanine is cool, and it’s also the best Pokémon your team by a mile

[alpine zephyr]

Yea I figured

[misty solar]

You have to make a core

[alpine zephyr]

There was one

[peak crypt]

Honestly I would just look at the list of Pokémon that are currently DOU by usage and pick out of there

[alpine zephyr]

It was fire water grass steel dragon fairy

[peak crypt]

Farigiraf is pretty good too but Pikachu, Appletun, Alolan Sandslash, and Decidueye are all varying degrees of awful

[alpine zephyr]

Ok

[misty solar]

I’m not that fimiliar with the dou tier but I know some arcanine cores

[peak crypt]

Choice Band Hisuian Arcanine is pretty good next to Chien-Pao

[misty solar]

Facts

[peak crypt]

Its Extreme Speed is weaker than Dragonite’s, but it has stronger STAB moves and has Intimidate

[alpine zephyr]

I'm going for a support arcanine that can take care problem pokemon cough cough goldhengo

[peak crypt]

Gholdengo will not be a problem with a Chien-Pao on your team

[alpine zephyr]

Hence the rea fighting and raging fury

[peak crypt]

You can just click Sucker Punch

[misty solar]

^

[peak crypt]

Ogerpon-Wellspring is also really good against Gholdengo

[alpine zephyr]

I don't have dlc

[peak crypt]

Nobody plays DOU on cart

[alpine zephyr]

Oh yea I forget everyone plays sowdown

Showdown

[peak crypt]

You also might be able to get an Ogerpon off the GTS if you have the Pokémon Home app

[misty solar]

Def put chien-pao on ur team

[alpine zephyr]

Chien paonis ice dark right

[peak crypt]

Yes

[alpine zephyr]

Replaced weavile

I was jus saying in general

[worldly sable]

and because the people that play on cart play VGC instead

[peak crypt]

H-Arc / Chien-Pao / Oger-Wellspring / Farigiraf feels like a strong start to a hyper offense team

[worldly sable]

which has its own stuff going on

never played it tho so can't say much

[alpine zephyr]

Ahhh ok

[peak crypt]

From there you want a solid speed control Pokémon (like Prankster Tornadus) and then the last slot is up to you more or less

[alpine zephyr]

@peak crypt thanks for giving out Pokemon and team ideas

I appreciate it

[peak crypt]

You could run another priority user like Rillaboom or even just throw a Pokémon with a ton of stats in that slot, like Iron Hands or Flutter Mane

np!

[alpine zephyr]

I was thinking about using fluttermane

[peak crypt]

You can almost never go wrong with Flutter Mane

[trail iron]

Dazzling gleam right?

[peak crypt]

It is a little bit broken.

[alpine zephyr]

It's speedy has good coverage and doesn't require set up to sweep

It's just nice if u can set up

[misty solar]

Hey I have a question, what’s the best moveset and evs to run on rillaboom on a balanced team.

[peak crypt]

Flutters in DOU are usually Dazzling Gleam / Moonblast / Shadow Ball, with Protect on Booster Energy sets or a coverage move like Psyshock on Specs sets

[trail iron]

I suggest using sash

[peak crypt]

I usually just run 252/252 on Rillaboom but I would check the analysis spread

[worldly sable]

can anyone give me ideas on how to make this more appropriate for now? I made this team before dlc
https://pokepast.es/28896089b3c85776

[peak crypt]

And replace a move of your choosing with Grassy Glide (because we haven’t updated the dex with that yet afaik)

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

Sash Flutter is fake

[trail iron]

Ehy

Why

[peak crypt]

Flutter actually runs a ton of bulk sometimes

But usually you either want more Speed with Booster Energy or more damage with Choice Specs

135 Special Defense is a lot so Sash will often be a wasted item

[trail iron]

But what if a Pokémon with a super effective move survives?

[peak crypt]

You hit it with your other Pokémon or you switch out

[trail iron]

Oh so I am just dumb

Ahaha

[peak crypt]

The 135 Special Defense is a big deal too

Heatran’s Flash Cannon doesn’t OHKO anyway

252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 222-264 (88.4 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Okay it does sometimes

But the bulky sets don’t take nearly as much

[trail iron]

Yes but it's 31% so..

[brittle spade]

[trail iron]

I use mane with indeede

[peak crypt]

get outta here ratpacker I’m trying to teach the people!

[peak crypt]

There’s actually not a ton I’d change here

[brittle spade]

just replace walking wake with ogerpon-heartflame

and there

[peak crypt]

Running Trick Room on Indeedee will help you a lot against opposing Tailwind and allow you to run a more offense Torkoal set

[brittle spade]

you got yourself a post-dlc top tier team

[peak crypt]

Focus Blast sucks, the Armarouge should probably just be Tera Grass with Aura Sphere and Life Orb

And Walking Wake should probably be an Ogerpon, yeah

[brittle spade]

i'd run trick room instead of focus blast

the indeedee set can remain as it is or you can put trick room

[peak crypt]

oh I wrote Armor Sphere

[worldly sable]

I understood you meant aura

[brittle spade]

freakin' ffX fans

[worldly sable]

so don't worry

[peak crypt]

nah that’s Monster Hunter brain rot

[worldly sable]

I'm not familiar with Ogerpon in doubles so lemme see what I can think of

[peak crypt]

The cool thing about Ogerpon is you can just hit stuff

Grass move / Ivy Cudgel / Spiky Shield, then whatever you want

[brittle spade]

substitute/taunt/uturn/encore/follow me/swords dance

[trail iron]

But is mane with indeede's psychic terrain (don't remember the name) good?

[brittle spade]

anything really

[worldly sable]

Trailblaze Ivy cudgel swords dance whatever grass move I feel like putting, dunno if to go with horn leech or seed bomb, cus I don't like whip on it
item sash-

[peak crypt]

Flutter Mane and Indeedee don’t have any real synergy beyond Follow Me support for Flutter

[brittle spade]

ok so no traiblaze

[alpine zephyr]

For chien paonis what moves would I run

[brittle spade]

which is already amazing

[alpine zephyr]

I'm unfamiliar with it

Same with fluttermane

[queen willow]

which ogerpon r we talking abt again

[worldly sable]

ice spinner, crunch sacred swords protect

I think

[alpine zephyr]

Usually I jus use pokemon I like and know

[peak crypt]

Protect / Ice Spinner / Sucker Punch / one of Sacred Sword, Crunch, or Lash Out

[trail iron]

Wht can I use instead of indedeede

[brittle spade]

indeedee is fine on that team

[worldly sable]

fire one

[brittle spade]

indeedee is already a good flutter support,

[queen willow]

sub and taunt r the best on that imo

[brittle spade]

just because it can absorb ghost moves

[queen willow]

and grass stab is usually wood hammer

[worldly sable]

I keep tornadus the same right?

[peak crypt]

With Indeedee and Torkoal on that team there’s not much need for Taunt

[worldly sable]

cus it was originally more offensive but changed it

[peak crypt]

Oh

You do not want Taunt with Indeedee

It will fail on most things in Psychic Terrain

and that’s pretty sad

You could swap it with Sunny Day pretty easily, to give yourself an extra option against other weather teams

Knock Off could be U-turn if you want to go all or nothing with Tera Psychic Weakness Policy Armarouge

That set wins hard or loses hard with no in-between

[trail iron]

Wait indedee can use sunny day?

[peak crypt]

Indeedee probably can but we’re talking about Tornadus

[trail iron]

Oh sorry

Can I show you my team?

(It will probably be a little strange)

[peak crypt]

Sure but be ready for harsh criticism if you’re calling it strange

[trail iron]

Ok then gimme a sec

[worldly sable]

like this right? https://pokepast.es/369a407f628636d6

[peak crypt]

That has the exact same Tornadus set

[trail iron]

Wait how do you share it?

[peak crypt]

I would drop one of the non-attacking moves on Oger for Spiky Shield

[worldly sable]

wait it can learn that?

[peak crypt]

Click “upload to pokepaste” in the teambuilder then copy paste that link here

[trail iron]

Ok

[peak crypt]

Sure can

[worldly sable]

didn't know

[trail iron]

https://pokepast.es/0074494eada8e47c

Here it is

[peak crypt]

Okay so

Most of your Pokémon are good

Let’s start with the easy changes:

[worldly sable]

oki, didn't see the tornadus stuff until now so lemme change it

[peak crypt]

Fake Out + Psychic Terrain is bad, your Fake Out will fail against almost everything

[trail iron]

What do I change it into

[peak crypt]

Hyper Voice and Body Slam should be replaced with Shadow Ball and Rock Slide, respectively, because non-STAB Normal moves suck

Psychic

[trail iron]

Ok

[peak crypt]

Earthquake isn’t great because it hits your allies, and it’s even worse on Heatran because it doesn’t get STAB; I would change it to Stomping Tantrum on Landorus and Earth Power on Heatran

[alpine zephyr]

https://pokepast.es/be00d044d95075f4

is this better

[trail iron]

Wait go slower

[peak crypt]

Cut Earthquake, it isn’t worth using right now

[alpine zephyr]

yea

moves that hit mutiple pokemon do reduced damage as well

[peak crypt]

Replace with Stomping Tantrum on Lando-T, replace with Earth Power on Heatran

[trail iron]

Done

[peak crypt]

Some of these sets aren’t great but I’ll get to it in a bit

Last thing @trail iron

Why am I looking at a Gliscor

Why did you put this on your team

[alpine zephyr]

bc hes cool

wait is gliscor available to use

[worldly sable]

https://pokepast.es/c2dbf7d7fe13fe1e

[trail iron]

I thought fling would be good(?)

I don't know

[peak crypt]

Gliscor isn’t good in DOU unfortunately

[worldly sable]

K now I think I applied the changes

[alpine zephyr]

im making asingles team wiht him in mind

[peak crypt]

DOU games are too fast paced for Poison Heal to matter, and in all other respects it’s just a worse Lando-T

[worldly sable]

imma test it now, cus I literally never ran tailwind and trick room at the same time

[trail iron]

What can I replace it with?

[peak crypt]

I’m going to offer a bit of an oddball suggestion for that slot actually: let’s try out Milotic

[trail iron]

Why Milo tho?

[alpine zephyr]

@worldly sable that looks really good as a team you got coverage and a point o it

its bulky tanky and has coverage

[peak crypt]

Competitive is very good at keeping Intimidates and Snarls off your Pokémon, and Icy Wind provides some speed control for the attackers

[worldly sable]

armadeedee is like the most used combo ever in doubles

and I like tailwind so I went with that

[alpine zephyr]

i just dont like using what everyone else uses

i feel grimey

[worldly sable]

then you end up struggling

[alpine zephyr]

yea ive come to terms with it

[worldly sable]

people use them because either they're good or have gimmicks that can be fun

[peak crypt]

Scald / Icy Wind / Recover / Protect with Psychic Seed and Tera Grass or Fire will be very difficult to keep off the field; I’d suggest just running 252/252 Bold for now until somebody comes up with a better EV spread

If the Milotic sucks then blame me and replace it with an Ogerpon-Wellspring

[alpine zephyr]

im ok with getting stomped most of the time but you know i wish the off meta picks and tema would eb good

[trail iron]

252 on what

[peak crypt]

HP and Defense

[trail iron]

And the 4

[worldly sable]

can go anywhere since it doesn't matter much imo

[peak crypt]

Special Attack, but yeah it can go into SpD or Speed instead if you want

[trail iron]

I'll just put it on spA

Thank you

[worldly sable]

you could try doubles UU (if it still exists, idk if it does)

[peak crypt]

Looking good here! I’d adjust Armarouge’s Speed up to a Tailwind number you like (if you can hit 203 without too much effort, that’s a great spot to be)

[trail iron]

Yes it does

[peak crypt]

And Indeedee shouldn’t be Timid, just put those EVs into bulk

Follow Me usually goes first and Trick Room usually goes last

[trail iron]

One last thing

[worldly sable]

that's the spread showdown gave me so wasn't sure

[trail iron]

Who's better to send first

[peak crypt]

Showdown recommended spreads tend to get confused for support Pokemon in DOU

[worldly sable]

calm good?

or is it like Chansey where it prefers the weaker defense stat

[peak crypt]

Generally you don’t want to have dedicated leads in DOU, but there are a few approaches to take:
- Lando-T is almost always great, unless the opponent has Pokémon with Intimidate, Competitive, or Guard Dog on their team
- Milotic is great against potential Intimidate leads
- Heatran or Flutter Mane are good aggressive leads into opponents who might have rough matchups
- Amoonguss can lead sometimes against teams with lots of Water types, but Indeedee should be kept in the back, especially if your opponent has Rillaboom or Dragonite

[peak crypt]

The popular spread is actually 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD Calm

The 16 hits a jump point with Calm and the rest is dumped into defense

[worldly sable]

-

okay

lemme change it then

[peak crypt]

Torkoal also wants SpD instead of Defense to take hits better from Flutter Mane, but you should keep the Bold nature

That gives you more stats, and more stats = good

[trail iron]

Thank you

[worldly sable]

k changed

imma try it now and see how it goes

uhhhh

Is it normal to not get anyone quickly?

I'm at 1500 I think

[alpine zephyr]

https://pokepast.es/a9edb3d94fef2935

i went for a weather team

i am using uu pokemon but i think it might be able to handle a few teams

if played right tho

[peak crypt]

Ladder starts to get slow around 1500 yeah

[worldly sable]

that moment when

[trail iron]

Oh my

[trail iron]

Is it normal to encounter ice beam cresselia?

[peak crypt]

Yes

[trail iron]

Can o ask you a question

[peak crypt]

Sure

[trail iron]

How do I play ladder

[peak crypt]

click the Find Match button

[trail iron]

Wait so am I just THAT dumb

[peak crypt]

did you really not see the button on Showdown that says Find Match

[trail iron]

I didn't know that was ladder

[peak crypt]

lmao

[trail iron]

I thought it was like free play or something

[peak crypt]

select the format you want to play from the first drop-down menu, select your team with the second, then click that button

[trail iron]

I knew that

But

[peak crypt]

That is the ladder

[trail iron]

I was tryna enter a chat and it said "Win at least one ladder game"

And I was like

What

[alpine zephyr]

where can i post replays

that arcanine team is actaully realy good

surprisingly

[trail iron]

I think here?

@alpine zephyr

[alpine zephyr]

Okie

[royal cobalt]

https://pokepast.es/09ae47b1c9e2f902

[royal cobalt]

can someone rate?

[royal cobalt]

pls

[dire flint]

your rillaboom set is very suboptimal, rillaboom generally uses fake,grassy glide, and uturn with the last move being team dependant
focus sash and life orb are generally preferrable items to choice band on chien pao but if you're set on choice band I would reccomend at least dropping psychic fangs for sacred sword/brick break as chien pao needs a fighting type attack to hit other chien paos and steel types
your tera types need to be changed cresselia, rillaboom, goodra and dondozo all want to terastallize into types that help them defensively, I would recommend dark,normal, fairy and poison respectively
also chien seems out of place on your team, it fits best on offensive teams

[midnight crystal]

https://pokepast.es/6a43b6f07bb353a8

Found a team I think might be what you're looking for

[royal cobalt]

yeah i was actually quite unsure on putting chien pao on the team

but its an awesome cleaner

i forgot to do teras 💀

also isnt dondozo best tera dragon

[dire flint]

if you want a cleaner flutter mane is probably better

[royal cobalt]

but chien pao go vrooom

[dire flint]

tera poison is generally reccomended but tera dragon could be decent

flutter is faster, bulkier, and doesn't nerf your own team

[royal cobalt]

wdym by nerf my own team?

oh sword of ruin?

makes sense

also im having trouble with my cresselia dying

like a chiyu comes in at the start

and dark pulse 2 shots

but i cant switch out cresselia because cresselia is important to healing my pokes

[peak crypt]

So don’t lead Cress

[ocean python]

ummmm im new to comp LOL heres a team i tried to make for marshadow https://pokepast.es/de2ce799f61ecd2d it has one slot left but idk who to pick and also idk if this team is any good

[peak crypt]

Honestly I can’t think of anybody who played SM DUbers and uses this server

[shell arrow]

Thanks a bunch

[ocean python]

bwahh. is there like a guide to learning comp or something
i just copied this stuff from marshadows smogon page lol

[shell arrow]

I'm looking at the team rn and 3 out of 6 of the mons are dark type without any other fairy resist. Even so would you consider this sort of fat team to be the most optimal?

As in the most optimal fat team.

[placid rose]

balls 2

[shell arrow]

Chi yu

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[royal cobalt]

put trick room on your own pokemon

to cancel out

[midnight crystal]

If you're asking what's the most optimal type of fat I think semi stall with 1 set up sweeper Is the way to go. I usually prefer pairing it with spike stack but this is totally fine too

The team can get away with so many fairy resist because of the screens and more importantly the av ting lu, who tanks moonblasts easily and helps the rest of the team do it with its ability. I don't think this team is most optimal but this is a strong player who's gotten very high on ladder with it so it clearly works to a decent enough extent.

[shell arrow]

Anyway thanks for the team. I'll try it out myself.

[trail iron]

@peak crypt milotic works well

[peak crypt]

let's gooooo

glad to hear it's working out

[midnight crystal]

You are in the wrong channel! You'll have to wait a little while for the ou channel to open up and then you can ask over there

[white bane]

oh im so sorry, my bad

I'll delete my comment

[royal cobalt]

Don't listen to me