Smogon Doubles Rates

[abstract forge]

With full honesty I'm more comfortable with garchomp as it's speed tier allows it to out speed most defensive threats. although I can see Landos argument, Intimidate will be an issue that lando can't bypass as which Chomp can thanks to clear amulet. So I'll stick with garchomp if that's fine with you.

[peak crypt]

did you miss the "Garchomp is the MVP" bit

[night edge]

think the team is in a weird spot

torn / chomp kinda implies an aggressive approach that conflicts with the slower one shown by Heatran / Bulk Up Palafin

if chomp is the mvp, i think its probably better to lean into that offensive bias?

maybe make the Heatran Chi-Yu and the Palafin AV Basculegion

more aggressive but more-or-less keeps the same level of defensive flexibility

without Torn i dont think chomp will feel as great so my proposals were more based around the two

chiyu is also better into cresselia, which is annoying for chomp

[torpid moat]

yeah I prefer the team with basc too

I think heatran could be sub instead if you want something more proactive

[unique lantern]

https://pokepast.es/83664825aecc2600 vgc team mostly but it works in DOU well too and should work in regulation D pretty well, right?

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[earnest junco]

yeah this is workable

i would say definitely run walking wake > bonnet, bonnet is pretty trash

i would also do sash rocks tusk instead of scarf

as for what to run over corvi you have a few options

chien pao could work

maybe eleki

eleki would help with bulky waters that sun hates

https://pokepast.es/01015f415dc7117f

personally i would run taunt on tornadus but it really doesnt matter

this may struggle with ting lu a bit because 5 special attackers

and i could see ting lu picking up in usage after the ursaluna ban

but ting lu still doesnt like switching into like

hydro steam

or flutter mane moonblast

and you still have a whole great tusk too

special atk boosting walking wake is also probably better here

you have prankster tailwind and eleki for speed

https://pokepast.es/b5c16b98af3ff64f

[nocturne flower]

https://pokepast.es/df21e12569254a9a
A basic OU team made by someone thats only been in SV OU for a day.

[abstract forge]

Go to #1059653209678950460 for the rating. This is for doubles.

[nocturne flower]

Oh my bad first day here

[unique lantern]

tysm, this should be good in regulation D too, right?

[earnest junco]

idk, ask vgc rates

[glad flower]

https://pokepast.es/af2b93bdab69c14f
yo i finally made final team, lemme know how it is

(pixelmon 6v6 doubles, see replied message for context)

ended up going with azu btw

[peak crypt]

@unique lantern as a general note, DOU teams probably won't overlap very much with VGC teams, since DOU has now banned both Urshifu formes and Ursaluna

and to my knowledge Urshifu has won every single Reg D grassroots event so far

[abstract forge]

Tbh I don't like Pixelmon, Cobblemon is much more suitable for me.

[glad flower]

we were gonna do that, but it was missing a lot of content

like 100% cobblemon > pixelmon but it wouldn't facilitate the planned tournament

content wise

[earnest junco]

jirachi is not in the game

and neither is incineroar

[peak crypt]

none of us really play Pixelmon, so the most we can actually do is a sanity check

[glad flower]

^

[peak crypt]

and I mean... looks fine?

[glad flower]

first time actually doing a competitive thing

[peak crypt]

my concern is mostly that there's a lot of stuff here that you can't Disguise as well

so Zoroark will be pretty obvious

that could just be a Flutter Mane instead

[glad flower]

thing is, gen 8+ is banned, except for starters and regional forms

and you can have one mythical/legendary

[peak crypt]

shit rules, leave the server

[glad flower]

yea not wrong

[earnest junco]

one sec

i have a team for this

[glad flower]

check this list first

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1117975357224665189/1118728583792300106/Untitasdasdasled_1.png?width=751&height=676

]

someone made list of allowed ones

kinda scuffed

[earnest junco]

https://pokepast.es/b47e879af38c0a9c

[glad flower]

battlebond will not be happening i think ngl

other people spent 3 days with about 20 hours of fishing getting it

and tournament is in 3 days

[earnest junco]

you could probs replace it with ludicolo

[glad flower]

oh also only "gimick" allowed is mega evo

[earnest junco]

thats a pretty wack ruleset

[glad flower]

yeah, reasoning being is just bc people don't even know what the new ones do

like they all played up until gen 7, and after that they thought new mons were OP

and they don't even know them either

i wanted to do a m-gallade team, but it just seemed kinda cursed compared to salamence and metagross

also slightly prioritizing coolness over meta, bc nobody in there has experience

i mean, i don't either but i watch vgc a lot

[unique lantern]

true but i'm also not a tournament player. i just want a team to reach master ball with to get the master rank ribbon and i'm out

[torpid moat]

just take a rental team then

[unique lantern]

yeah well there are literally no good ones for regulation D yet

• i'd have to make the team myself anyway to get the ribbon

[worldly sable]

Any suggestions? I feel like I'm way too weak to dark types and can't really hit much
https://pokepast.es/8c3e53b4628a538d

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[worldly sable]

and I'm forced to use two poison types too cus this is for a custom tourney

[earnest junco]

This team is

Really anti synergistic

[worldly sable]

ik but idk what to put

[earnest junco]

You have psychic terrain and several pokemon that rely on it but then

Espeed dnite

And fake out sneasler

Drop those for like

Glimmora + maybe swords dance iron hands?

[worldly sable]

I'm not sure if glimmora will work considering this rule, and the posiblity of people bringing counters for it

but lemme check

it does have corrosion tho

[earnest junco]

https://pokepast.es/abff88e0f5c4bbfc

[earnest junco]

Its… a poison type…

It fulfills the requirement…

Actually on this team

Run specs glimm

[worldly sable]

what's that set?

never used specs

[earnest junco]

https://pokepast.es/2589f73a9688e8c1

[worldly sable]

lemme try this

thanks

[torpid moat]

you'd rather have assault vest galar bro than quick claw

you can also do trick room bro itself

[worldly sable]

whats safety googles for

and who am I supposed to lead along side Grimm?

[torpid moat]

safety goggles is for amoonguss

leads are not something set in stone, but probably glimm or hands or a tr galar bro

[abstract forge]

https://pokepast.es/a913802928dc1a54 thanks to usage, this team is now in shambles.

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[abstract forge]

T-T why did garchomp have to fall of?

[brittle spade]

How so

[brittle spade]

Garchomp being duu doesn't mean you can't use it in dou

[abstract forge]

I know, but it's probably outclassed.

[brittle spade]

landorus therian or great tusk would indeed be more suited

[brittle spade]

You can run av tusk with earthquake headlong rush close combat ice spinner in that spot

With 249 speed

[abstract forge]

https://pokepast.es/95c85be16af82ef5 does this Lando moveset work?

*forgot to change its Tera to water.

[brittle spade]

I'd just make it assault vest 2 ground moves or stealth rock

What are your tornadus EVs for

Only 221 speed is enough on lando

221 or 249

[torpid moat]

also the mon most similar in role to garchomp would actually be lando i

it's a special attacker but it's just way harder hitting and naturally immune to intimidate ofc

[sonic token]

I want to know if this team is any good. Does anyone have any suggestions to make it better https://pokepast.es/e0bb6e61340918fc

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

the mons alone are okay, but they don't work very well together

also there are lots of issues with their sets

for example eject button on a trick room setter is really really bad

[sonic token]

Do you have any suggestions to make it better

[torpid moat]

because it's trivial to interrupt trick room that way

[sonic token]

I used it to bring in ting lu to do big damage

[torpid moat]

what happens if they damage hatt on the turn it clicks trick room

[sonic token]

I actually haven't thought of that

[torpid moat]

also ting lu is not very threatening in trick room at all

[sonic token]

Yeah. Do you have any advice

[torpid moat]

do you want to drop the trick room or no?

[sonic token]

I do

I feel like hatterene has more than just trick room

[torpid moat]

oh hatt sucks actually

[sonic token]

💀

[torpid moat]

I meant moreso in a team style question

but yeah hatt is really just too frail

if you aren't attached to trick room then you can cut hatt and bundle for like

flutter mane and palafin

for a reasonable balance team

[sonic token]

What if I stick to trick room? What Pokemon would I need to swap

[torpid moat]

probably still bundle and hatt (for a better trick room setter), plus I guess cutting chi-yu or gapdos or ting lu

[sonic token]

I'll cut ting lu cuz chi yu was supposed to be my star player while gapdos help with some weaknesses

[torpid moat]

so chi yu hits hard, but the format is pretty hostile to it due to faster threats and priority

[sonic token]

Oh

[torpid moat]

we could try a semiroom team with scarf chi yu on it

would be the best bet

[sonic token]

Ok

[torpid moat]

so chi yu, indeedee for psychic terrain

[sonic token]

Ok

[torpid moat]

hm, would you prefer more emphasis on trick room or out of it?

[sonic token]

Out of it

[torpid moat]

hm alright, then let's add flutter mane and basculegion for the faster parts

so that's 4 mons

and for the slower we can have say

glastrier and iron hands

hm, could be torkoal somewhere instead too

actually yeah that fits better

chi yu flutter indeedee walking wake torkoal iron hands

[sonic token]

yeah

Thank you

So is this a trick room team or

[torpid moat]

indeedee is the trick room setter

[sonic token]

Ok

But is this team souly around trick room

[torpid moat]

no, since all 3 of chi yu flutter walking wake are quite fast

the archetype is called semi trick room

[sonic token]

Should I use basculegion

[torpid moat]

atp I'll just build it for you

[sonic token]

Um ok thanks

[torpid moat]

https://pokepast.es/a7033c3383357fee

[sonic token]

Thanks

[torpid moat]

any questions on sets, or would you like me to explain why your original ones were bad?

[sonic token]

Ok if you want

[torpid moat]

so eject hatt was definitely the biggest offender, but there were other issues like a lack of protect

boots bundle isn't that worthwhile because it dies in 1-2 hits anyways, also it doesn't have hydro pump or protect

[sonic token]

Hmm ok

[torpid moat]

gapdos is missing its strongest moves, close combat and brave bird

they're just too powerful to not use

also it has choice band tailwind, which is arguably usable but I'm not sure you intended it

[sonic token]

I did

[torpid moat]

the ting lu set would actually be fine on a different team, but it's very defensive, not something that can take advantage of trick room turns

[sonic token]

Ok

I am not asking but say I was to make that team again what would I do better

[torpid moat]

either cut the trick room or use a more reasonable trick room package like diancie/amoong/hands

fix sets, probably add a priority user like palafin or kingambit somewhere, maybe instead of hands slot in kingambit's case

[sonic token]

Ok but what about my the first team I had shown you

[torpid moat]

that is for the first team, no?

palafin would be useless on the new team

[sonic token]

Oh ok thank you so much

Took me forever to find someone to help me so I am grateful

[rain mantle]

I'm trying to navigate around the new meta. Lemme know if this is good. And yes I tested it a bit
https://pokepast.es/86d502090f4d8aac

[peak crypt]

I can guarantee you Beat Up is not worth it

the damage isn't even that good on Technician Maus

you would be better served by Protect in that slot; Maushold isn't particularly bulky even with investment, so Protect is valuable

[thorny stratus]

https://pokepast.es/c9d8f8be27cd3f37

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

I'd run something like this instead https://pokepast.es/4e842e4aac68c513

[mild oak]

What ya mates think? https://pokepast.es/f69915101734cb0f

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

this seems really low-powered, almost duu legal

if you want to setup with screens there's bulk up palafin and cm flutter mane

also sd kingambit

all better options

[mild oak]

You are not gonna believe this but I managed to get to Master Ball rank with this and have won a lot of battles in Showdown, it’s a really good team if you use it properly

[torpid moat]

master ball rank in vgc regulation d?

[mild oak]

(Also I don’t want my team to look exactly like the team of everyone)

[mild oak]

Yeah

[torpid moat]

ah congrats then

[mild oak]

I felt bad when people said this team would never work

But guess what?! I won with this team

[torpid moat]

hm, want a match?

[mild oak]

It’s more fun to battle with the Pokémon you want instead of always using the Pokémon everyone uses

[mild oak]

Sure

In showdown or vcg?

[torpid moat]

I'm on showdown, as Yellow Paint

[mild oak]

ok

[torpid moat]

anyways, yeah you have a lot of trouble with certain mons like heatran and basculegion

you definitely want shadow sneak on the ceruledge

and probably some form of speed control, like thunder wave on scream tail

or on grimm

[mild oak]

Sent ya a DM

[mild oak]

I was gonna have it but I got some advice of adding other attacks instead

[nocturne knoll]

https://pokepast.es/1338ede1f8ee4f7d rate my gen 8 trick room

And yea the physical reuni is supposed to be there

[torpid moat]

if the reuni set is set in stone, try giving necrozma trick room instead of thunder wave, then remove hatterene and metagross

you can use some other mons like rillaboom or tapu fini there

if tapu fini you don't need as much goggles and overcoat

you should also use eruption on heatran, or replace it with incineroar if you want a defensive fire

diancie wouldn't be bad either as another offensive tr setter

[random kettle]

Thoughts? For scarlet and violet

[peak crypt]

four of these Pokemon are genuinely terrible in Doubles play and one of them is only a Murkrow

[torpid moat]

basc is great though

[random kettle]

Thanks for the constructive criticism!

[peak crypt]

yeah I know that's not particularly constructive but like

this team is a non-starter

if you're looking specifically for Doubles OU, you should probably start by looking at the viability rankings to get an idea of what Pokemon are viable: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

if you're planning on playing the Battle Stadium ladder, check out the VGC rates thread instead of this one (though they'll probably say the same thing)

do note that Last Respects is legal in Doubles OU, so you don't have to stick with Phantom Force

[random kettle]

Using strictly meta is extraordinarily boring for me so I like switching it up so I can have fun. I don’t care about winning every game I would rather have an enjoyable game and lose, I got to master ball on singles season one using brambleghast so I would rather hear potential improvements rather then “team bad try meta”

[peak crypt]

Doubles generally has a higher bar for "good Pokemon" than singles does

and if you really insist on not using the best Pokemon, you need to find a way to match the power level of those Pokemon, or you'll lose more games than you'll win just by having lower stats

for some more specific advice: traditional "wall" strategies tend to be significantly worse in doubles play than singles, because while a Pokemon like Umbreon or Toxapex might be able to take any one hit, it's a lot harder to take two hits in a single turn

and if your Pokemon doesn't really have any impact on the board, then your opponent can just ignore it and focus fire the one next to it

leading to "all my friends are dead" syndrome where you have to play a 1v2

[random kettle]

on umbreon I plan to use stuff like yawn to hopefully force a switch or protect in tandem with phantom force to give myself essentially a free turn if I think they will attack and not setup

[queen willow]

This only has worked with a few mons across the generations ftr and its niche cases/the mons are just too fat to take down

Cresselia and chansey in gen 5, tinglu in gen 9 could be examples somewhat

[peak crypt]

Sleep is also slightly worse because you're only disabling one of two Pokemon your opponent has on the field; it's a lot harder to rely on sleep to keep something alive as a result

[random kettle]

Also trying something like prankster perish song turn one, taunting with electrode to stop set up, then turn two murkrow is hopefully still alive thanks to sash to set up a rain dance so electrode can thunder, also thinking of giving electrode Tera water and tera blast and giving murkrow mean look

[random kettle]

With one pokemon disabled I can hopefully sweep the other with choice band basc

[peak crypt]

that does require you to specifically have both Umbreon and Basculegion on the field in Rain

[random kettle]

Murk dies t2 after dance, electrode volt switches out

[peak crypt]

building with specific combos is one of the most common Doubles teambuilding pitfalls I've seen, and it generally takes several games for most players to realize it's not a particularly good way to build teams

the turn 1 setup can be easily stopped by a single Fake Out user, and Fake Out is a very common move in Doubles

[random kettle]

These are only ideas of potential moves not a formula for ever game

[random kettle]

If I see that happening a lot I can simply give murkrow a covert cloak

[peak crypt]

and now you've given up your Focus Sash, so something else can just one shot you because you are a Murkrow

[random kettle]

Rain dance, or Perish song can still be set up thanks to prankster guaranteed

[peak crypt]

Meanwhile on my end, I can just lead with Flutter Mane and anything else on my team, and I'm probably going to win this exchange no matter which buttons you click, because neither of your Pokemon are particularly threatening

[random kettle]

Ce la vie

[peak crypt]

this team basically has one Pokemon I need to actually worry about in team preview in Basculegion, and everything else is either "fine I guess" or actively beneficial for me when it's in play

Forretress and Umbreon bleed momentum, Electrode really can't deal any notable damage with base 80 Special Attack, and Murkrow just has zero attacks so I can do whatever I want

[random kettle]

I can do whatever I want as well and I choose to at least try to make an interesting team and enjoy myself rather then brainlessly following a stale meta, like I said previously I don’t care if I win every game, I play to have fun using Pokémon I like. Even if this style doesn’t get me master ball like the first season I played I can still have fun and that’s more important then winning, so if you don’t have anything constructive to say other then “team bad play meta” I will kindly ask you to badger someone else

[peak crypt]

if winning is not your primary goal then you should not be here

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[random kettle]

So no one here plays to have fun?

[peak crypt]

if you really just want basic optimizations, then sure, I can do that: Mirror Herb and Volt Switch on Electrode is a nonbo that forces you to ignore a move slot or throw away your item; Murkrow will get more mileage out of Tailwind than Thunder Wave; Toxicroak should be running Protect over one of its attacks (or just Swords Dance), and as previously stated, you're allowed to use Last Respects in this format

I do play to have fun! I think winning is incredibly fun

[random kettle]

Thank you! What would be better options for electrode?

Electro ball is also supposed to be energy ball as well

[peak crypt]

this thing probably wants Focus Sash more than anything else (Murkrow should probably run Eviolite and Protect instead of Defog; you already have Rapid Spin and hazards are usually less important in doubles than in singles)

Energy Ball is also an improvement

you could consider Leaf Storm too; you can fire off a big hit with Leaf Storm and then use Volt Switch to get out and reset the SpA drop

[random kettle]

Now this is what I came here for thank you

What about Chloroblast?

Is it worth

[peak crypt]

Chloroblast is funny but I don't think it's worth using

[random kettle]

Hmmm low key sounds worth to me

[peak crypt]

does not work with Focus Sash

[random kettle]

What about choice specs ?

Also why protect on croak?

[peak crypt]

Protect is an incredibly powerful move in Doubles because it enables so many new lines during your turn, both proactive and reactive

you can Protect to stop a Fake Out, scout for a big attack, or just keep yourself safe while waiting for something like poison damage or passive healing

or you can Protect with one Pokemon to stop an attack aimed at it, then use your other Pokemon to KO the thing threatening your first

[random kettle]

Okok

[peak crypt]

for example: you can Protect your Toxicroak to avoid a Bleakwind Storm from Tornadus, then have your Basculegion follow up with a Wave Crash KO on that Tornadus on the same turn

so now you've taken out the Tornadus without it beating your Toxicroak

[random kettle]

Gotcha

Does bleakwind have priority or is assuming rain hasn’t been set?

[peak crypt]

also next time, if you just want optimizations on a set of six Pokemon and aren't interested in changing any of the Pokemon themselves, you should probably start out by saying that and not just asking "thoughts?"

I'm assuming either there's no Rain or your opponent has used Tailwind

[random kettle]

I’m open to changing a Pokémon or 2 MAYBE 3 if I really like an idea just not my entire team

But yes ur right I should’ve clarified

Prob not murkrow or electrode tho because I really like the idea of perish song sound proof

[peak crypt]

you should also keep in mind that Gholdengo is immune to Perish Song

whether that's an idea you work with later or a roadblock you need to find a way around

[random kettle]

Right, does he normally use trick in doubles? It was very common in singles

[peak crypt]

Choice sets still run it, but those aren't quite as common

as compared to Nasty Plot or a basic three attacks + Protect set

[random kettle]

If so I can taunt and he’s pretty much done

Ok

[peak crypt]

Gholdengo is also immune to Taunt

[random kettle]

Oh shit rip

[peak crypt]

Gholdengo is also immune to Helping Hand! Good As Gold is very much "if it's not a physical move or a special move, it does not work"

so you can Pollen Puff a Gholdengo but you can't Heal Pulse it

[random kettle]

He Would prob die to a specs thunder tho right?

[peak crypt]

252 SpA Choice Specs Electrode-Hisui Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 211-249 (66.9 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

nope

[random kettle]

Interesting I completely forgot about that ability I usually just ohko shadow balled them with brambleghast

Damn

What about a specs tera blast water in rain?

[peak crypt]

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Electrode-Hisui Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo in Rain: 229-271 (72.6 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

also nope

[random kettle]

Damn

[peak crypt]

Electrode has base 80 Special Attack

[random kettle]

Phantom force for sure tho right?

[peak crypt]

I cannot overstate just how puny that is

[random kettle]

Lol

Rain dance phantom force t1 t2 perish song would miss basc cause he’s in the shadow realm right?

I should also clarify that my electrodes nature is spa not speed up if that changes anything

[torpid moat]

it increases damage but still won't kill

electrode is just that weak

also you can use better mons without using "meta" mons

the roles of umbreon and forretress are just not very useful ones in doubles

way too easy to ignore or disrupt

[fervent ice]

https://pokepast.es/ee89e4f7d5b3e165
Hi all,

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[fervent ice]

I'm doing a Mono-Fire Doubles team to battle two friends ONLY -- one with a Mono Water, and one Mono Grass. My team sucks on regular Doubles OU, but can anyone rate?

and if anyone wants to try making a doubles water or grass monotype team to test with me, that would be graet

[abstract forge]

Unfortunately, they can't rate this team because they rate teams on its structure, and how it deals with the metagame. So Unfortunately, no.

And testing it in DOU is worthless because of that major water weakness and rain being dominant right now.

[peak crypt]

Nah we can at least do some sanity checks and make sure something isn’t running the worst set known to humanity

[earnest junco]

why are you using monofire without volcanion

you can pretty easily just

put it here instead of coalossal

heatran is also just better than camerupt

[fervent ice]

Totally a fair point — but my friends (1) banned legendaries, including Heatran, and (2) things can’t share items

They’re more casual; I was originally going to go for a Oricorio/Volcanion Quiver Dance/Tera Grass combo. But yeah

[torpid moat]

that's something you should've mentioned at the start

the best nonlegend fires are probably arcanine, volcarona, cinderace, torkoal, skeledirge, armor/ceruledge, salazzle

and I guess if you wanna go for trick room you'd use guts flareon

also volcarona and volcanion are not the same thing, volcarona isn't legendary

[unique lantern]

https://pokepast.es/335f81efb74f0c88 funny little team i made, pretty succesful on ladder. palafin is ev'd to live a banded crunch from chien pao (if i lead cress and palafin and opponent leads chien pao and something) and there are a surprising number of banded chien paos.

iron hands is ev'd to live an earth power from heatran and basically any earthquake easily

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

You want at least one mon to tera into a fairy resist

Also I'd run protect over crunch on chien pao

[unique lantern]

why?

only case where that might work is tera steel on kingambit but thats it

[brittle spade]

Tera fire iron hands

[brittle spade]

Because flutter mane is the best mon in the tier

[unique lantern]

i feel like ignoring rage powder is more valuable than being able to take a hit from flutter mane but to be fair it can KO flutter in one shot so ill go for it

[peak crypt]

Amoonguss is on a slight decline because of Cresselia

Flutter Mane is, as stated, the best Pokemon in the format, and it's not particularly close

[torpid moat]

you can do steel tera hands if you want

[unique lantern]

steel fire and poison are all weak to ground which makes me realize fairy ground would actually be an amazing typing wouldn't it

i'll go tera fire, i guess. is there any other significant issue with the team?

i seem to struggle quite a bit against farigiraf (and tsareena but it's less common), since the team is based around priority spam

[torpid moat]

these kinds of teams tend to have rillaboom on em to clear psy terrain, which isn't tsar or farig but is a lot more popular

[unique lantern]

i did try rillaboom but it just doesn't feel like it does that much, ik it's very popular rn but it

just kinda sits there does some damage and das it

it's not particularly insane offensively

and i can deal with psychic terrain through ice spinner

[torpid moat]

it can taunt tr setters

[unique lantern]

my team functions fine in trick room, though

because there's so many priority moves

and my team is a trick room team, yk

[torpid moat]

fair

I don't like pao without protect

hands evs are probably inefficient, it wants spdef

[unique lantern]

actually, not really

i ran most calcs for it

survives earth powers very easily and tera fire makes it survive dazzling gleam

[torpid moat]

it's not just about surviving, it wants general bulk

[unique lantern]

252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 198-234 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

[torpid moat]

yes but wouldn't you rather it did 35

[unique lantern]

it's stil a 3hko why does it matter

[torpid moat]

because it's rarely gonna be heatran eping you 3 times

it'll be heatran eping you once and putting you in range of some other attack

like just go check the damage difference between 252 def and 0 def

and 252 spdef and 0 spdef

the spdef evs are way more impactful

[unique lantern]

yeah, but since iron hands is calced to get 3hko'd by most earthquakes and earth powers, and 2hko/3hko by dazzling gleam/psychic/psyshock, it can survive 99% of the time even if it's doubled into while switching in

like i also thought spd would be super impactful but it doesn't change damage numbers that much

with assault vest

[torpid moat]

ok, let me rephrase that then, what is the 200 def doing for you then?

well 170

[unique lantern]

it's 176, it's all leftover evs from the 80hp needed to survive earth powers.

and it also does stuff like

92+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 80 HP / 176 Def Iron Hands: 210-248 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO

92+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 176 Def Iron Hands: 278-330 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[torpid moat]

eq and stomping do the same damage

also what is the 0def version of that calc

[unique lantern]

right, idk how to make showdown reduce power for spread moves

[torpid moat]

click the "doubles" button

[unique lantern]

92+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 246-290 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

hm

[torpid moat]

that's a 7% bump

practically nothing

[unique lantern]

true, i guess

[torpid moat]

try the comparison against a flutter dazzle

[unique lantern]

40 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dazzling Gleam vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 236-282 (50.3 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

40 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 276-326 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

huge difference of literally nothing

[torpid moat]

that's a moonblast

[unique lantern]

oh

my baD

damage calc switches moves when i change stuff about mons, so stupid

[torpid moat]

also you don't need to alter the hp

hp evs are really inefficient on hands

[unique lantern]

huh?

[torpid moat]

spdef specifically is important

hands has like 150 base hp

so additional hp evs aren't as impactful

[unique lantern]

ive been goin off this

[torpid moat]

except when mons have high base hp compared to their defenses

[unique lantern]

40 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 172 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 188-224 (41.8 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

[torpid moat]

and it needs to be a big difference like on hands or ting lu

see, 10% drop, and you even lost 80 hp evs

[unique lantern]

would all other evs go into defense or hp?

[torpid moat]

probably spdef

standard hands is 252 atk 252 spdef

[unique lantern]

252 atk 252 spd?

92+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 246-290 (54.7 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[torpid moat]

with sometimes taking out of attack for more bulk elsewhere

[unique lantern]

this isnt exactly amazing

my tera type already makes me resist fairy moves, feels like i'm going too hard on the fairy resist

[torpid moat]

eh, lemme pull out the php calc

[unique lantern]

when hands still doesn't even ohko flutter with a wild charge and gets 2hko's after one wild charge

[torpid moat]

try 108 hp 100 def 48 spdef

[unique lantern]

40 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Dazzling Gleam vs. 108 HP / 48 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 222-264 (46.6 - 55.4%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO

92+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 108 HP / 100 Def Iron Hands: 224-266 (47 - 55.8%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO

not particularly great at surviving either of the most common flutter and lando sets

[torpid moat]

well, it's a balance between both

but also hands is not a mon that actually cares about 2hko/3hkos on exact lines

it takes tons of chip damage and also gets drain punch healing

[unique lantern]

mostly because wild charge having recoil, yeah

[torpid moat]

all it really cares about is minimizing damage

it's your choice whether that's focused on def or spdef

also you can cut a little from attack if you want even more bulk

[unique lantern]

nah, hands already doesn't do as much damage as i'd want it to tbh

wild charge barely kills things i want it to kill in most battles lol

[torpid moat]

you can try cc wild charge heavy slam?

[unique lantern]

i could go heavy slam instead of volt switch maybe

https://pokepast.es/2d7fb13639b5ecfa i've arrived at this in th eend

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[unique lantern]

lum berry on cresselia is like a safety goggles except i dont have to deal with being frozen which happens way too often than it should and is extremely annoying

palafin lives a wildbolt storm now

and hands is 252 spd

[torpid moat]

I'm surprised it didn't live wildbolt before

though wildbolt also isn't that common

[unique lantern]

i was too, actually

yeah but it is very annoying to fight those teams that have like 3 genies or somethin

so silly that the lamest trio in the game got the most attention in every way

basically every one is good competitively and all have good abilities and also it got a new member cause why not

[torpid moat]

wait what kind of wildbolt are you calcing

like some thund t specs nonsense?

[unique lantern]

incarnate

lemme get hte exact thing

[torpid moat]

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Wildbolt Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Palafin-Hero: 346-408 (85.6 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

[unique lantern]

0 SpA Thundurus Wildbolt Storm vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Palafin-Hero: 192-228 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO

the eerie impulse thundurus set that people use with enamorus

[torpid moat]

oh

I think the damage is more important in that case then

[unique lantern]

0 SpA Thundurus Wildbolt Storm vs. 130 HP / 128 SpD Palafin-Hero: 192-228 (51.4 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

yeah this works too

[torpid moat]

just use 252 hp 252 atk

[unique lantern]

that also works actually idk why i went with spd

but it still dies against teams that spam genie signature moves

which is what is annoying about them

[torpid moat]

just jet punch things

[weary dirge]

USUM DOU

How's my team?

[night edge]

looks more-or-less fine to me

late, i know

[sick dock]

this is my GEN 9 DOUBLES OU trick room team, im new to the competitive scene but ive always wanted to pull of a trick room team with hatterene on it, i feel as tho this team is missing something, and i cant pin it down, any help that can be provided? https://pokepast.es/11089dc57bc3c225

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

the main issue is that hatterene is completely outclassed by the other current trick room users

[sick dock]

yea, i know

[brittle spade]

diancie would be a much better fit with torkoal

i'm not sure fullroom is the fit for it right now

[sick dock]

i do plan to carry this over into the actual game, so is therea nother one besides diance?

[brittle spade]

what, to replace on the team ?

[sick dock]

to replace hatterene

[brittle spade]

if you want to build around hatterene, i'd suggest a core like this https://pokepast.es/648ae11fd48de9f8

for torkoal diancie teams here's a link with some teams

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-team-bazaar.3710875/post-9653604

[sick dock]

thank you

[brittle spade]

id suggest this for the team you're trying to make https://pokepast.es/17485b2e857bcec0

hf

[sick dock]

thank you!

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

absolutely not explosion glimmora

[earnest junco]

I feel like the general power level of the team is too low

Stuff like this may have worked pre home, but post home stuff like meowscarada and garchomp just arent good enough statwise to be worth using over better options

[brittle spade]

landorus is too strong to consider garchomp

[earnest junco]

I also dont really like glimmora here personally

[brittle spade]

explosion on toxic debris glimmora is a no go because you want it to get it

[earnest junco]

Glimmora works better on more balanced teams where you can rack up the chip from tspikes, but the rest of the team feels like hyper offense

Im not entirely sure where to go from here bc im not sure what aspects of the team you want to keep

You could keep glimmora or keep the indd armarouge psyspam core and build around either one of those, but i dont think they work particularly well together

Also you forgot tera types

[idle mason]

Well, I've been thinking of building a team around Armarouge and Indeedee. Are there any other important mons I should add to the team?

[torpid moat]

main question is whether you want trick room or not

[idle mason]

Yeah I do ofc

Sorry for not saying

[torpid moat]

so tr comp can be like

armor indeedee glastrier/iron hands

for fast/midspeed stuff flutter mane and basculegion really appreciate priority immunity

chi yu as well

[idle mason]

I'll build a team later on and I'll send a poke paste link for reviewing

Ty tho!

[torpid moat]

those were options btw, don't put all of them on the same team

and you likely still need glues to balance out the rest

[idle mason]

How's this? I kinda threw in some of the options and I'm not sure what you meant by "glues" https://pokepast.es/08b10eb5020568ea

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

Glues are mons that are good in a large variety of situations and require specific answers from your opponent

[idle mason]

such as?

[brittle spade]

Iron hands, rillaboom, volcanion, heatran, landorus therian

[idle mason]

So should I have at least one or two glues in the team?

[brittle spade]

Flutter mane is also a glue mon

Due to its large set variety

[idle mason]

So my team's completely fine if I add Fluttermane?

Wasn't sure if you reviewed my team 😭

[brittle spade]

https://pokepast.es/6b2d58c0091c8838

This is a very basic version of what you can build for psyspam fullroom

The landorus and flutter mane spot are rather flexible

You can replace one of them with stuff like swords dance glastrier, enamorus t, cresselia+setup, garganacl even

Eject button amoonguss works well when your main focus is pivoting and setting up trick room

[idle mason]

I really don't get how Glastrier could be an option though

[brittle spade]

You're just posted a 5 mon comp of very slow mons that focus on setting up trick room

That's where glastrier works

You swords dance up and catch KOs

It also beats rillaboom which is a big problem for psyspam

[idle mason]

Is Rillaboom a problem because of its Grassy Surge?

[brittle spade]

https://pokepast.es/1a32077effcdc646

Something like this

[brittle spade]

Yeah, grassy surge replaces psychic terrain and you don't like that

[idle mason]

Makes sense since I have to switch Indeedee in and out

And she can get pursuited if she didn't change into tera fairy

[brittle spade]

There's no pursuit this gen

[idle mason]

Really? I heard there was

[brittle spade]

There shouldn't be

[idle mason]

Yeah it says in Smogon

[torpid moat]

are you looking at a natdex analysis or something?

[hallow ferry]

thoughts on my team? it's been doing pretty well for me

i'm thinking on replacing garchomp tho

but honestly idk yet

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rose notch]

not a gen 8 expert so cant rate

[peak crypt]

the pokepaste is a significant step up from what you just dropped raw into chat for sure

But the Reuniclus set is kind of awful, Zarude isn’t very good, and Torkoal without Trick Room support won’t get very much done

[rose notch]

team looks alright but u can remove tyranitar and garchomp tbh they dont really do a lot here and add more sun sweepers or bulk to help the overall team also Rapid spin > iron head since u dont really need iron head protect on heatran prob would be nice here also over dpulse

[peak crypt]

Your Amoonguss also lacks both Spore and Rage Powder, which are the two things that make Amoonguss particularly good

Meanwhile: @hallow ferry are you familiar with the concept of “a Water resist”

[rose notch]

^^

i think palafin just eats the entire team

possibly add something like rillaboom

[hallow ferry]

i know my team has a water resist but honestly water types haven't been really a problem with me because I mostly just kill stuff like palafin and gastrodon with energy ball flutter mane, and I also can kill pelipper pretty easily with either rock slide ttar or another energy ball from flutter mane

i'm also going to replace garchomp with something else because it hasn't been doing very well compared to my other pokemon

but i don't really know yet

[viscid ore]

https://pokepast.es/dead1b5f6e9de5c4
i threw this together in like 15-30 minutes so some things will probably change before i get input, but lmk what you think.

the weed cat gonna get redone first probably

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rose notch]

Cool team but imo it isnt good some changes id recommend are
• change amoongus tera type to water to better help deal with fire
• change chi-yu to either scarf or specs np Chi-yu is pretty bad imo
• maybe add stealth rocks on ting lu over bp for hazards

[torpid moat]

grafaiai is outclassed by grimmsnarl, drednaw is kinda bad/easily killable, team heavily lacks speed control for the amount of middling speed options it's trying to use

[rose notch]

• just remove grafaiai, Meowscarda and, drednaw they really arent helping the team a lot id recommend adding smt like iron hands for fake out support

[viscid ore]

i didn't realize grimsnarl could use parting shot

thx for the info
i want to keep drednaw but if it has to go it will

i made some changes before the info

updated version:
https://pokepast.es/51aefc0aedee7360

[rose notch]

https://pokepast.es/4b6452ce04c96683 quite standard team i built quicky no hazard removal is pretty ehhhh but its fine

Rate now:)

[torpid moat]

chi yu seems bad here, team overall is gonna get rolled by palafin

[rose notch]

Yea was thinking of replacing chi-yu

[torpid moat]

minimal protect, you're gonna have trouble against torn or tr or other immediate speed control

try ghold in that slot

[rose notch]

How good is gholdengo post home now

[torpid moat]

it still has a niche, there's a decent set of mons it can set up on

[torpid moat]

you'd be a lot better off with dred that doesn't care about strong jaw, dark tera jaw lock really is just a 120 bp dark move

grimm can use screens, fake out, and others, it doesn't run attack

[viscid ore]

alright

[torpid moat]

palafin would just be better than dozo

as a bulk up water

if you're focusing on the defensive aspect with body press then you can just use acid armor goodra h

[viscid ore]

i dropped drednaw altogether but i need to put screens on grimsnarl

idk what to put for the 6th mon tho

[torpid moat]

what are your current 5?

[viscid ore]

Grimmsnarl
ting-lu
amoonguss
dondozo
shell smash cloyster ‾|<--switching one of these
hatterene _|

[rose notch]

More offense could be good tbh

[torpid moat]

hatt sucks, too frail, maybe try dd baxcalibur?

if you want something off-meta that's still a fast setup

there's also sd glastrier if you're leaning towards trick room

also yeah don't use dozo like that, palafin is better

you team is incredibly slow, you need the priority

also by bax I meant over cloyster

you'd likely be best off just have specs flutter mane on the team last

[viscid ore]

Ooh

[abstract forge]

https://pokepast.es/d4f738eb3354004f This is my team, I need some help as Volcarona poses a major issue.

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[abstract forge]

I literally lost to a team with Volcarona, oricorio, and flamigo.

Of which I have to say is BM Honestly. I have to run tuant to stop it form setting up but then I lose momentum and nice spare bulk from parting shot.

[peak crypt]

your team is already perfectly equipped to beat Dancer stuff

it's one of those things that you just need to play against a couple times before you understand what the Dancer strategy is trying to do

[abstract forge]

Tbh I just hate facing against volc. It's quite annoying to deal with and it teras so my palafin can't revenge kill it. And heatran can't do much especially with those boosts.

[peak crypt]

you could possibly lead Iron Hands Cresselia, click Swords Dance TR turn 1, and just start slamming

in fact that's probably your best line

normally I'd suggest Fake Out early but I don't think that'll be particularly good into that matchup, since you don't have something to apply immediate pressure

[torpid moat]

yeah that's really just your lack of experience, dancer is very beatable

[peak crypt]

a small optimization you could make is Tera Fire on the Hands instead of Grass

[abstract forge]

I'd rather grass as bypassing rage powder is quite valuable and being immune to Spore allows for me to avoid falling asleep, and it allows for common ground moves to be resisted while Moonblast and Dazzling Gleam are neutral with light screen on.

[peak crypt]

You have Cresselia and two other things with Tera Grass, and Grass SD Hands doesn’t actually beat Amoonguss anyway (these days it’ll just Clear Smog you); Fire meanwhile lets you set up on Flutter Mane and Chi-Yu and dodges the occasional burn

Assault Vest Hands is better off with Tera Grass for sure, but SD has room for more optimizations

[abstract forge]

Of course, Mausehold.

[peak crypt]

this isn't really a Maushold kind of team

[abstract forge]

No a mausehold was supporting a volc and they destroyed my entire team.

[sick dock]

does anyone have a good team suggestion that involves Mespirit? ive been stuck on trying to get a competitive team for a long time now, ive been wanting to use mespirit and flutter mane but im not sure about what else to do.

[torpid moat]

mesprit is a pretty awkward mon, in many ways it's worse than cresselia, mew, or indeedee

if you're set on using it it'll probably be like trick room/stealth rock/healing wish I guess

flutter sets are pretty straightforward, and it's a good fit on semiroom

for semiroom options, check out iron hands, kingambit, amoonguss, rillaboom, glastrier, bulk up palafin, heatran, volcanion

[hallow ferry]

i've done some small changes to my team
Heatran, Choice Scarf ->air balloon
and has Flash Cannon now. maxed speed EVs

Torkoal, got eruption and yawn

Garchomp has been replaced with Kleavor

Kleavor, Expert Belt, Jolly
Maxed attack and speed EVs
Sharpness
Night Slash
Tailwind
Stone Axe
X scissor

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

I imagine someone deleted something

[tardy ember]

:c

[torpid moat]

just use a pokepaste, but balloon tran is likely incorrect

[remote edge]

ye

[sharp crane]

Any advice normally build tr teams but wanted to try something different

https://pokepast.es/6f25ee8f2f30bd07

[sharp crane]

Is there new move mystical power any good they seem way to fragile for me to try it

[hallow ferry]

honestly idk why i didn't just used pokepaste. also wdym by incorrect?

[sharp crane]

I’m no rater but pretty sure av, grass terra with terra blast with earth power heavy slam heat wave is how it’s run now with max go max sp.a and modest nature

[earnest junco]

I think you need torn > thundurus

I would also drop enam i for lando

The rest of the team is fine

[ripe halo]

How good is this team? I am new starting up in comp pokemon and want to get into it after seeing a bunch of Wolfy videos. Any tips on pokemon to take out or good options to use instead are appreciated.

https://pokepast.es/d56d674e35ad6d82

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

these movesets seem really bad, are you aware of how physical and special moves work?

you would only ever use physical moves on chien pao for example, because it has high attack and a defense lowering ability, and heatran wants to use special moves

the evs and item choices also seem quite random

[ripe halo]

ah ok, I just rmred flare blitz being a good move. Ill switch that.

[ripe halo]

yea I dont really know what im doing if I am honest

[torpid moat]

so flare blitz is a good move, it's just not a good move on heatran

[ripe halo]

I see I see

[torpid moat]

heatran has high special attack, not physical

you use pokemon showdown right

[ripe halo]

yup

[torpid moat]

you can use /analysis heatran

navigate to "doubles" tab to see a sample moveset

you can also use /tier dou to see dou resources

I also recommend using /intro

[ripe halo]

where would I use those commands?

[torpid moat]

in any chat box on PS

[ripe halo]

ok let me do that. Outside of heatran. Do you think that the pokemon I have chosen for the team are bad or are there any that maybe I should swap off?

[torpid moat]

I'd say individually each mon is something I could use in dou, but the team comp is pretty unbalanced

too many ghosts, too many water weak

just use the sample teams you'll find using /tier dou

we also have a dou discord

[halcyon panther]

https://www.smogon.com/discord/directory

[torpid moat]

it'll be linked here

[ripe halo]

Ok, Ill do that.

Thank you!

[torpid moat]

yw

[ripe halo]

Ok so I got one of the sample team though I tried to validate it and volcanion cant be brought cause it's an event pokemon. any alternatives?

https://pokepast.es/433787a9c0c06fa4

[earnest junco]

Make the volcanion not shiny

Shiny volcanion specifically is unobtainable

[ripe halo]

aaahhhh ok ok

thank u!

[light ridge]

you got rid of my phoebe bridgers nicknames

[fading osprey]

https://pokepast.es/83fb13d1302e53f3

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rose juniper]

If you give me 1 min ill take this one

what are you struggling with specifically @fading osprey? To me it seems pretty alright aldo the flutter set raises an eyebrow for me

but at a glance id say the main weaknesses of the team is a lack of speed control or if you wanna go more bulky offensive oriented where speed control doesn't matter as much you are missing a bit of support for the bulky offense, to me it feels like a bit of both which makes it that you aren't really getting the most potential out of your team. Cress could be a good adition if you want to go with that bulky offense but first I would like to know the thought and or strat behind the team :))

[rose juniper]

the main problems your team can encounter would be a strong HO (hyper offense) with tailwind support from something like tornadus where you lack the defensive power to hold your own against that and the team also lacks the offensive power to hit back hard enough and your team also could struggle a bit against a strong set up team. If you wanna go with a bulky offense team I would replace greninja with iron hands which fits nicely on those team styles with its fake out support and insane atk and hp stat, I would switch out the abomasnow for a grimmsnarl. Grimmsnarl might take 2 turns to get a full set of screens instead of 1 that abomasnow needs but it doesn't need snow up for it to work and its generally speaking a bit more consistend at getting them up while also having more tools to support your team outside of that but if you wanna keep the abom I would first of all put those left over 4 ev's into something and give it light clay over icy rock since I assume the main reason why its there is for screens support. And lastly I would put cresselia over bundle, bundle is not as needed anymore when abomasnow is gone and cress offers great support with moves like ally switch, lunar blessing and even the possible trickroom mode or helping hand. Sorry for the long read but this is what I would do with the team but idk if there are specific mons or a strat you wanna keep intact so lmk if thats the case

[fading osprey]

Well I was planning to make this team for spamming blizzard, and a hail team.

[rose juniper]

oke that is good to know since that does change it a bit

@fading osprey I have some ideas but what do you struggle the most with?

I take it that hands can be problematic?

[fading osprey]

well, I haven't know what Pokemon what I struggled with because I only played 3 matches of dou

First round, I lost because of costar flamigo...

Then, I managed to beat it

I also killed a rattled tera psychic dundunsparce with weakness policy...

[rose juniper]

oke, in that case I think its best to make some minimal changes so you can experiment with it a bit first. I would switch the lando-t for a normal lando since that helps quite a bit with the hands matchup which you are a little weak to, EV the flutter a bit diffrent to make it more offensive and fast to help with the lack of speed control you got on your team and to deal with threads like hands a bit better but also give it power gem to help with the chi-yu match up. Id say most sets are fine as they are but I would replace the greninja for something else since gren honestly is just not that good of a pokemon (you can ofc keep it if you like it) but I would change it for a hands of your own which should help a bit if you face trickroom or stuff like heatran and chi yu and its ofc good to have a fake out pokemon

maybe something like this

https://pokepast.es/3f6c4576ca97ec65

im afraid that this gen does lack a bit with good hail/snow abusers

I must admit im not the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to hail teams but I believe @tight spire is so maybe if he has some time he could also take a look at it

[fading osprey]

Yeah

Maybe in the dlc we will have more snow abusers

[fading osprey]

tysm

[rose juniper]

np and if that team doesn't feel right you could always try Fangame's public hail based TR team

https://pokepast.es/7bc7282296f50abc its pre home but its still pretty good never the less

[fading osprey]

where is that?

fangame?

[rose juniper]

just above

[rose juniper]

..

[rose juniper]

a player who is very good with hail

[fading osprey]

alright I'll use that team aswell

[rose juniper]

🫡

[fading osprey]

btw, what's farigraif for?

[torpid moat]

it blocks fake out and other priority using its ability

also sets tr itself

[dry scaffold]

https://pokepast.es/f6508d0aedeceaa3 Can someone give me some advice on what to change or move out?

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[dire flint]

some surface level thoughts:
-iron valiant should probably be aura sphere or focus blast instead of drain punch since its evs are all invested into special attack, after that you can also make the iron valiant timid
-amoonguss should use a different item than heat rock and replace sunny day with spore because none of your team besides ceruledge benefits from sun, regenerator is also preferrable as an ability to effect spore
-garchomp doesn't really make good use of liquidation, it should have a different third attack, I would recommend draco meteor

• I wouldn't recommend using flame orb on dragonite as it makes all your moves besides facade useless

also you're using a lot of unranked mons and suboptimal sets here I would recommend looking at the dou viability rankings and sample teams to see what is commonly used

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-sample-teams.3710876/

[dry scaffold]

Thanks for the advice. Ill get to moving stuff around.

[gaunt flare]

Use pokepaste

[gilded pier]

I did, I think

[gaunt flare]

No I mean, upload the team to pokepaste and send the link

[gilded pier]

Ohhh

[rose juniper]

@gilded pier if you send the paste I can rate it if you want

[gilded pier]

Can I just dm you it?

I don’t really know how PokéPaste works

[gaunt flare]

Click the button at the bottom of your team here and it should open up a pokepaste
Once you're there copy the link and send it here

[gilded pier]

https://pokepast.es/3ca182988abe969c

Like this?

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[gaunt flare]

Yeah

[gilded pier]

Okie

[rose notch]

There are a lot of errors with this team id just recommend using sample teams for now untill u get a better grasp on the more popular teams

Then build

[gilded pier]

I made it as a for fun team…

[rose notch]

Then why is it in rates..

[gilded pier]

Huh?

[rose juniper]

Do you want to show the team or improve it competitive wise?

I think thats what he means

But if you want to improve it comp wise I can rate it

[gilded pier]

Ah, I’m just using it for fun and wanted to know what other people thought of it

[rose juniper]

in that case you could propably better post it in the Dou discord general instead of here, in this channel people post teams to get rated in terms of competitiveness and receive help to improve their team

this channel is not meant to showcase teams

https://discord.gg/DvWnjU92

you can prob better post it in here

[rough ice]

Gen 7 dou
https://pokepast.es/0b2c62a2b3eb2f92

[peak crypt]

Just as a single off-the-cuff thought

Idk if I like White Herb Substitute Deoxys

I know Sub Z-move is the analysis set, but I think between Zard Y and Kommo-o, you have enough threats that you don’t really need to protect this one in particular

I think I’d rather see like LO with Thunderbolt maybe, to threaten Tapu Fini without dropping your Special Attack

Or just Ice Beam, because one shotting Zyg and Lando is never bad

[tender apex]

@polar lotus

[polar lotus]

thank you

i am in a chalange by someone and my dignity is in the play i need to reach 1500 in a short timz
https://pokepast.es/8f6c55db6dcacc18
this is my team

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

as a rule of thumb, you should invest in hp first before defenses for maximum bulk

the diancie having def evs without maxing out hp is highly inefficient, for example

same for armor, it should definitely have 252 hp

and glastrier

the exception to this rule is iron hands, which has an hp stat way higher than its defenses

it commonly does 252atk 252 spdef because that's where the bulk evs are more impactful

for other problems, this is a full trick room team with only one tr setter

both diancie and indeedee f also learn trick room, but are not carrying it here

I recommend using a sample set for each of the mons

on pokemon showdown, type /analysis iron hands in any chat box, then navigate to the "doubles" tab to see sample sets

repeat for each of your mons

basically every one of your mons has a set issue, like armor without fire move, amoong missing regen, hands not having fake out or swords dance, various item choice, no goggles

[polar lotus]

thank you a lot so
i should invest more in hp
change the moves from sample teams

thank you a lot, what about the tera types?

[torpid moat]

if you're not running safety goggles you should at least give hands or diancie grass tera for powder immunity

and when I say take from the analyses I mean the whole thing, including evs

[polar lotus]

thanks a lot man i will

[rough ice]

So like psycho boost, superpower, thunderbolt protect?
Also, is psychic viable over psycho boost? Only reason I chose white herb was to spam psycho boost/superpower

[peak crypt]

Life Orb Psychic does less than unboosted Psycho Boost

The bigger issue with White Herb is the moment you send in Deoxys it’ll immediately be answered by Incineroar, which immediately burns White Herb

[rough ice]

Ok, I'll stick with boost + LO
Thank you for the help!

[peak crypt]

I’ll admit I don’t play a ton of SM any more, so if you find it sucks in testing, don’t be afraid to change back

[torpid moat]

nah that deo set sounds really bad

just do lo or z

[peak crypt]

thanks Paint

[torpid moat]

z psycho boost is white herb but actually good

but ah there's a kommo

yeah life orb or sash then

[peak crypt]

If there wasn’t a clanger I would have said Z move yeah

[torpid moat]

sub life orb is still fine btw

there does need to be something more reliable than ferro at answering fini though

[rough ice]

Is 4 attacks deo-A possible?

[torpid moat]

I could buy cutting the mew

no, it needs protect

3 attack life orb is okay, but I think 2 attack sub protect is best

[rough ice]

If cutting the mew, what would you suggest replacing it with?

[torpid moat]

could be koko

[rough ice]

I assume you mean telepathy Koko, otherwise conflicting terrains

(Koko does not have telepathy, I remembered wrong)

[torpid moat]

no just use regular koko

double terrain is fine

you cannot reasonably expect psy terrain to be up uninterrupted

[peak crypt]

Double terrain also makes your Kommo-o better

[queen willow]

Yeah you have easier time removing finis misty terrain which makes clangorous soulblaze weaker

[warm mica]

https://pokepast.es/fe7b7cdda03e36de technically a DUU team and I'm still working on it but some pointers

And yes I know that screen pult is unorthodox but Grimmsnarl isn't allowed in DUU

[bright flame]

Anyone have a Sun team suggestion?

[warm mica]

Torkoal to set the sun, and lilligant I believe is the strongest solar blade user

Either her or Leaves

[bright flame]

Unovan or Hisuian Lilligant?

[warm mica]

Hisui

Regular would use beam, not blade

And unless they prepare for you with like rain or trick room, Chlorophylle Victory/Quiver Dance should clean up rather well

[bright flame]

so Solar Blade
Victory Dance
Close Combat
Coverage?

[warm mica]

Ice spinner

[bright flame]

and item?

[warm mica]

Though Volcarona might be stronger if a bit slower than clorophyll

Leftovers or Life Orb

[bright flame]

Is Volca used more in sun?

[warm mica]

I think it's more to do with Volca's absurd special attack

[bright flame]

should i add voca with H lilligant?

or just a Protosynthesis mon?

[warm mica]

I mean you do have to pick which one to tera grass

The two best protosynths are Flutter Mane and Tusk

I'd pick tusk because Heatran is so prevalent right now

And you can pick between choice or orb

Headlong, CC, stone edge or rock slide, Ice Spinner

[bright flame]

sorry i gtg

[warm mica]

But if SPDef is a concern you could switch to Vest

For Tusk

[rose juniper]

has your team already been rated?

[warm mica]

not yet

[peak crypt]

Klefki's legal

[rose juniper]

Or abomasnow

Eitherway if your team hasn't been rated by tomorrow ill do it

But its 2:30 am for me so I should go to bed

So tomorrow ill take a look at it

[torpid moat]

all the sets seem quite bad, and there's definitely not enough incentive here to run manual sun

for example typhlosion is way too frail to run calm mind

and if it does it'll basically never have full hp for eruption

garganacl can't run av because it really wants recover plus setup moves like curse or iron defense or stealth rock

[floral loom]

https://pokepast.es/4a082cef3e2e0dfd i made this team in like 15 minutes idk what mons are too good for trick room

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[peak crypt]

missing a couple items there, friend

[floral loom]

ah yeah i forgot to put the updated items

iron hands and kingambit are supposed to have leftovers for now

[peak crypt]

I generally think if you're running Kingambit and Iron Hands on the same team

particularly a TR team

one should be Swords Dance and the other Assault Vest

[worldly sable]

ignoring the fact the team is purely special how's this?
https://pokepast.es/316568f9b0c42748

ignore tera psychic on walking wake too, it's supposed to be water

[rose juniper]

The main changes I would make are more moveset and item related

In reality you are never gonna click psyshock with fluttermane amd moonblast is good to have since you sometimes just needed that extra bit of damage output so I would put moonblast over psyshock

I would also give indeedee follow me over hypervoice or psychic

Follow me is just a great support move in general and when a mon can get it its almost always worth running

And you have 2 dragon type moves on wake which is a bit overkill, I would drop one of them for protect and lastly I would personally say that torn gets more use out of an item like sash or covert cloak to help with getting tailwind up consistently but if you really want to keep your damage output I would say you can better go all the way at that point and use life orb

[torpid moat]

btw here's a manual sun team I made for duu recently, you could use it as a template https://pokepast.es/7d063b1d0a8199ff

[hexed shuttle]

Hi, I would love comments for my DOU team: https://pokepast.es/2295e99f7d5f40ed

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[torpid moat]

just so yall know armarouge isn't actually good

[hexed shuttle]

Torkoal: sun setter, TR-enabled eruption machine. With maxed out HP and SpA, plus Choice Specs, plus Fire tera, he hits like a truck provided TR is enable. In addition, he enables the other half of Sun-based team.

Walking Wake: Protosynthesis + life orb + Hydro Steam (+ Sun maybe) is too good, + running Draco Meteor for nuke before switching out and reusing his ability. Fairy tera for defensive, and Meteor and Flamethrower for coverage. I may change Protect to Sunny day as a last resort for weather control.

Hisuian Lilligant: Chlorophyll + sun boosted solar blade is pretty strong. Close combat + (Fighting tera) to create pressure on Garganacl/ Heatran. Sleep power for game control. Also provide a folk lift to Torkoal if TR is not enabled.

Indeedee + Armarouge: infamous TR setter pair + psychic terrain pair. Indeedee Follow me + Rocky helmet to break Chien-pao sash, enable 2OHKO for next turn with either Helping hands + Expanding force, or switching in Torkoal + Heatwave. Aura sphere for Heatran and other dark mons.

Cinderace: Hazard remover with great potential for damage with pyro ball, sucker punch for priority and u-turn to help with chip damage. This mon is questionable, as I need a physical attacker (currently only Lilligrant), but I'm not sure if hazard control is important or not.

Context: I'm a 1500 DOU player, and aiming to improving my team further. I struggle with any huge wall, like Chansey/ Ting-lu/ Garganacl/ Heatran. Also Wide guard gives me very hard time.

[torpid moat]

the armor/sun comps are popular for some reason but tbh they're usually just inferior to chi yu flutter

this is especially true when you see more and more opposing rilla usage higher on the ladder

walking wake also has pretty bad matchups in current format

[queen willow]

Personally my fav sun build is torkoal chi yu flutter hilligant tornadus lando-t

[torpid moat]

if you want to keep the comp, try just cutting the cinderace at least for flutter, and either lilli or wake for a setup mon like sd iron hands say

if you're still having trouble with tanky mons

definitely need to lower the fire type count

[queen willow]

Av lando helps a lot vs volcanion and heatran and tornadus can set tailwind and use taunt and also be a secondary sun setter if need be

[torpid moat]

but yeah a torkoal/diancie/chi yu/flutter comp would just be superior

[queen willow]

Or a diancie route also works yea

[torpid moat]

than the armarouge trap I've seen 3 teams in a row of

[queen willow]

With a lot more of a trick room route with like hands

[torpid moat]

no idea why armor is so popular on ladder

[queen willow]

It cheeses ladder very well

[torpid moat]

until it doesn't, I guess

[queen willow]

And doesnt require much thinking

[abstract forge]

Unlike singles where it is cheese doubles its viable because Trick room is a viable strategy. Expanding force with indeedee setting up trick room is quite good in doubles, as it can take advantage of the 4 turns it get from trick room.

[queen willow]

It was good prehome

It isnt good anymore

[abstract forge]

It still is.

[queen willow]

Rillaboom resets terrain and dark types are as good as ever

[hexed shuttle]

what is "comp"? competitive I guess?

[abstract forge]

Those are counters sure. Almost everything has a counter or check, that's just the metagame. It's still a viable strategy.

With proper play, the strategy is very good.

[torpid moat]

comp as in team composition

basically I said an armarouge indeedee torkoal team comp is popular but not very good, and generally worse than something involving chi yu and flutter mane

so if you've truly hit a wall that's part of what you can blame

if you want to keep the original team composition kinda then you can cut the ace for an sd iron hands

prob tune up sets here and there, prob cut something for flutter

[hexed shuttle]

got it, thank u so much

[torpid moat]

for example give indeedee sitrus or safety goggles

it does not have the bulk to make helmet worthwhile

you should also prob use charcoal torkoal, specs is too inflexible to click eruption with

it can be a huge momentum sink if you lock into eruption and then something hits you for 60

[hexed shuttle]

yeah that makes sense, it helps with some wide gaurd case also

what is the role of flutter in general? like a fast and hit hard mon I guess?

I tried it before but can't understand its role yet

[torpid moat]

yeah it's just a super reliable fast damage dealer

the most common/arguably best set is bulky specs

which is actually fairly hard to ohko

moon song (Flutter Mane) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 16 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Moonblast
• Dazzling Gleam
• Shadow Ball
• Perish Song

first 3 moves are mandatory, last can be whatever

you see stuff like tbolt and twave and tera blast etc there

[worldly sable]

what's covert cloak for?

I already did some matches with the item and still don't get it

[peak crypt]

Makes you “immune” to Fake Out, stops drops from Icy Wind and Snarl, prevents some hax from getting in your way, and beats the shit out of Garganacl

On Tornadus it’s really about clicking Tailwind in the face of Fake Out

[warm mica]

hmm i am thinking about switching the Typhlosion for a Tera Grass Volcarona

[torpid moat]

if you're looking for something to cut it's definitely the arboliva

really big dead weight there

[worldly sable]

If I were to do a natdex doubles team do I need to put it here or in natdex non-ou

confused about it

[rose notch]

Natdex non ou

Since natdex doubles meta is officially a natdex tier

[worldly sable]

ah

k thanks

[rose notch]

No problem

[torpid moat]

you could post it here too probably

[true gazelle]

https://pokepast.es/f75bce889ae2731e

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[dire flint]

I would recommend replacing the glimmora on your team with a different pokemon, your team is so fast paced that Glimmora's traits aren't very useful to it. If you really want a mon that clears hazards I think that rapid spin Great Tusk fits pretty nicely on your team.
I think Clear Amulet is a suboptimal item on Dragonite, you can get more value out of it by changing the ability to Inner Focus and making the item something like Assault Vest or Choice Band. This would mean giving up your setup moves and Multiscale but I don't think these really fit with the pace of your team.
One last thing, Booster Energy Flutter Mane only really needs speed to outspeed other Booster Energy Flutters, so if you're not having any trouble with those it may be worth considering a bulkier spread on it.

This is a nice team though, I just think it could be made even better

[oblique cedar]

https://pokepast.es/e069f2f5adefae2e

[brittle spade]

with worm you want max spdef, heavy slam, sitrus berry tera fire

for amoonguss just use the smogon spread

your gholdendo needs to reach 273 speed to outspeed flutter with scarf

ttar wants tera flying/fairy

orthworm sand isn't too good right now, so don't expect big success with that team

[oblique cedar]

ya i thought about replacing him

what could i run instead of worm

[brittle spade]

do consider a trick room user

either cresselia, diancie, uxie or flutter

[oblique cedar]

choice or booster better on flutter

also id like to climb with this team and a trick team ima build so any and all advice would help

[brittle spade]

Flutter Mane @ Focus Sash/Babiri Berry/Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpAtk
Modest Nature

• Moonblast
• Shadow Ball
• Trick Room
• Protect

[brittle spade]

have you looked at the samples ? they have DOU trick room teams

it'll help you build

[oblique cedar]

i wanna try something with armarouge indeedee f

[brittle spade]

you can do armarouge indeedeef torkoal lilligant-h flutter kleavor/tusk

that's a typical one

otherwise armarouge indeedeef sunny day tornadus flutter great tusk iron hands

there's also weakness policy armarouge indeedeef iron bundle with flip turn

[oblique cedar]

armarouge indeedee torkoal iron hands kleavor

tusk

could that work out?

[brittle spade]

that's a slow team

if you did diancie over kleavor and assault vest landorus t it could work

[oblique cedar]

i dont have diancie or lando rip

[brittle spade]

you're playing on cartridge ?

[oblique cedar]

ya

[brittle spade]

you want a vgc team i'm guessing then, no ?

[oblique cedar]

ya

[brittle spade]

this isn't for vgc, it's a rather different building process

[oblique cedar]

oh really lmao

[brittle spade]

go to vgc rates instead

[oblique cedar]

okay

[sonic token]

This is my Regulation D team and I need some suggestions on the rest of the Pokémon I should add

Also need a steel type for the fairy steel dragon core

[sonic token]

https://pokepast.es/d86113041432d3c9

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[brittle spade]

this is a vgc team, go away, there's a vgc rate team channel

we will happily welcome you if ever you want a DOU rate though

kisses

[torpid moat]

#1059704283072831499, but yeah iron thorns kinda sucks

[sonic token]

Ik it's vgc that's why an here🤓

[sonic token]

yeah ik

But anyway thank for letting me know where to go

[main sapphire]

https://pokepast.es/f5b1dfbea8779485

[halcyon panther]

New DOU RMT @torpid moat, @remote edge, @strange sable, @night edge, @light ridge, @earnest junco, @brittle spade, @dire flint, @tardy ember, @rose juniper. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

[rose juniper]

So the main things I would change would be the goodra and the dnite set

you are running a 4 attack offensive goodra-h but goodra is generally not really that strong of a raw offensive mon

goodra can be good on your team and a nice set up mon but then I would recommand you go for the acid armor body press set

since the offensive pressure it offers to your team is currently not that great

personally I would replace the huricane on the dragonite since you have 3 physical attacks on it already you are probably better off going full physical espcially because you then can put the 252 evs you got in sp atk now into bulk and you can then also run adamant

furthermore I see that you still have some left over 4 evs on some mons so don't forget those

you are now running earthquake on the hands but you can only really use it next to Dnite but that also isn't ideal because that makes that you might be
hesitant to tera your dnite so I would replace that for something like heavy slam for flutter manes or swords dance for general damange output

the only other things for me are a bit more nitpicky like tera ghost is often better then steel for chien pao

it allowes you to avoid fake out and be immume to its otherwise 4x weakness to fighting

and that often times something like tera water for hands works better defensivly but as I said thats more the nitpicky stuff

you could also consider replace either U-turn or X-scissor on kleavor since you already got a bug move and maybe replace it with another move that gets boosted by sharpness

[main sapphire]

Well I was keeping X-Scissor for damage and U-turn for momentum

[rose juniper]

if you want to keep both thats absolutely fine

as I said thats more of a nitpick point but your team looks otherwise fine to me

[main sapphire]

Does this look better? https://pokepast.es/0c3960ad3c14dbb3

[rose juniper]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier but yeah much better but one thing that I would change is the defense investment on dnite and instead of full def I would invest in HP instead

Often times its better to first invest in hp instead of defenses

And I would go full invest in defense and HP on goodra instead of attack since the main damage you will do comes from body press

I would run something like 248hp/252def/8spdef

And run body press, acid armor, heavy slam and protect but dclaw over protect is also fine

And if you run heavy slam over iron tail you will also not miss

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https://pokepast.es/20a8cfd8643bb9d0

I think i need something against Fighting but, how is my team rn?

[brittle spade]

why does it say natdexdoubles

are you building for DOU or NDDOU ?

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Oops my bad

[brittle spade]

are you like

commited to wyrdeer ?

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But yeah it works on DOU

[brittle spade]

you should only use brambleghast on tailwind teams

it's already a bad mon

you need to make use of its ability

[brittle spade]

https://pokepast.es/b808b3cf04fb48e7
i'd run something like this
change amoonguss to rillaboom and diancie to cresselia if you're worried about landorus-i

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True thx i will try it out