ik-2

[river storm]

@vital heart A chance here to talk about your pucks! 😄

[oak pendant]

But after getting Tundra trackers I don't need the added battery now

[clever thicket]

how long do tundras last for?

[coral cairn]

8 hours

[clever thicket]

sonuva

virgin 3.0 user here only has 7.5 hours

[coral cairn]

give or take. Basically everything is 8 hours or so now, so to extend your playtime you need to extend everything and it just becomes impractical

[devout current]

Tundras last for more then 8h

[oak pendant]

Yeah or maybe 9hrs

[devout current]

Yeah around 9h

[river storm]

I am not going to last 9 hours on my feet. XD

[devout current]

You can sit down

[clever thicket]

[coral cairn]

🤔
yeah I'm never in vrc for more than like 6 hours
and in personal experience my tundras die at about the same rate as my 3.0's and knucks

[oak pendant]

I haven't done a stopwatch test on them though, but have had them die more than 3hrs into a second day without charging after using up my wireless adapter battery that dies at 6hrs+ the day before

[devout current]

On some days I'm online for like 7 - 8h that mostly only happens when I'm waiting for a Dev Update or a new beta to come out xD

[oak pendant]

Oh wow, new mental image while we get stuff together, DrBlackRat just pacing in circles for 8hrs waiting for update

[devout current]

Basically that yeah xD

[marsh elm]

Release the update or the rat gets it (somewhere in the next 8 hours) 🔫

[devout current]

Sometimes I also go downstairs and make some food xD

[oak pendant]

What are you gonna do now that Tupper's updates are twice a week?

[river storm]

8 hour play time is vital for roleplaying a full shift at virtual K-mart.

[marsh elm]

LOL

[devout current]

Writing Cannys xD

I've already written like 3 or 4 today xD

Now I just need to somehow earn money from doing that xD

[oak pendant]

https://jobs.lever.co/vrchat/99d79705-7e7a-41eb-a21d-b721e43528cb

[marsh elm]

Only glory yo be had is from closing cannys 😂

[clever thicket]

blackrat 4 QA

[oak pendant]

Also https://jobs.lever.co/vrchat/4e159b5d-0e5d-4d9e-b89f-4b465906226a may be kinda related. I think that's more about organizing and keeping track of tasks. But a frequent Canny poster would be kinda familiar with that.

But I think you post to Canny less from organizing things and more because you found an issue, so then QA is more about finding issues

[devout current]

Idk I have to see, I'll probably apply in a few weeks / months and see what happens ^^

[vital heart]

Yoo it's my website! That's cool to see linked here!

I spend up to 10+ hours in vr between multiple platforms so I ended up making the power pucks cuz there was nothing else on the market 6 years ago

Ye passthrough screw with trypod on the bottom uses the contacts a new pro set adds 12 hours of life

[rustic berry]

about the tundra battery life, I found it's more like 10-11hr with the latest firmware (manually updated via their tool)

[narrow yew]

last time i actually checked my tundra tracker died at 10.5 hour mark. they were less than a month old at the time

but i'm also still having issues with the dongles so it's not all great. there's at least 2 or 3 receivers on my 2 sw4 dongles that just don't work properly

[maiden rock]

still not a fan of that chest tracker strap setup

there's good reason all the tightening action is presented to the front of the chest

and way too much material on the back section = overheating

[jovial shadow]

Wait there are firmware updates for them, why isn't it stated anywhere in the bit of paperwork they include with the trackers

Or i am just blind and overlooked it

[rustic berry]

it's not really stated anywhere

most likely because it's still in beta

[unreal sorrel]

I usually try to update firmware on everything, but it's everywhere. A new bios update for motherboard, graphics card. Upgrade firmware for tv, TV remote, my Xbox controller.

It's easy to forget which devices need updating

[loud patio]

Wait where is their tool? I only see stuff about SteamVR beta. They say their drivers are distributed via Steam

[rustic berry]

@jovial shadow @loud patio it's on their GitHub, it's called the HWID checker I believe. just be warned that if you don't follow the instructions properly, you can brick other devices like your controllers and headset

there should not be any VR related devices plugged in besides one tracker when you run the tool

[loud patio]

Ah okay. I was just curious. I'll probably just wait for an official release of that firmware then =P

[jovial shadow]

Thx for the info

[crude bobcat]

#ik-2 message

Does anybody know how to get head bobbing to work in IK 2.0? I tried checking the box to animate Hip in the locomotion controller but it didn't seem to do anything

💀

@zenith glacier

[zenith glacier]

Ummm its enabled by default. What the custom loco controllers are doing, is to set hip and both feet to animate while moving

[crude bobcat]

Really? When my avatars run their body seems stiff, like it's just the legs moving

Back in IK 1.0, there would be more overall movement, but then it changed to look more like half-body locomotion

I really appreciate the response nonetheless, though

#ik-2 message
Kung — 04/26/2022 You should be able to get headbob back if you have tracking control apply animate hip to your locomotion state in your animator
@oak pendant Is this still true?

[maiden rock]

Tundra's HWID tool is only for the kickstarter devices

if you have the newer chips its not compatible

[zenith glacier]

Can check that next time i am in fullbody, (that means in like 6-8 hours) - but i can imagine that head or hip&head lock can potentially overwrite the bobble, since they enforce the head to be at the headsets position unlike hip lock

[zenith glacier]

in current open beta it still behaves like that, did just test

[grim haven]

Are they still working on IK at all? It feels so broken still.

[digital grove]

it feels quite decent in my opinion

except for the issues with the neck when there is chest tracking maybe

but yes they are continuously working on it

[devout current]

Well, Kung would like to improve a lot of things still (especially the spine in Lock Hip and Lock All), right now he is just busy with other stuff on his task list.

[vapid geyser]

I'm still getting the weird knees inverting issue. I posted a vid before. May make another demonstrating with alternative settings and avis. To summarize my findings: it occurs regardless of ik settings and avi propertions/rigging.

[vital inlet]

So umm this is still a bit of an issue. it makes it really hard to sleep with a partner. Whenever i turn my head im flashing the other person with the rest of my body. An option to freeze body would be great, or am i just missing something?
#ik-2 message

After ik2.0 came out i was using the immobilize mod to get around the problem but now mods are disallowed, this has become a problem once more.

[harsh lagoon]

there are locomotion controllers available that are able to lock rotation and movement of your body, i believe gogoloco miiiiggght be able to do that?

i have a custom one i got from a nice japanese player but i dont think its publicly available

@vital inlet ping in case you forget to look

[vital inlet]

Oh thank you, i will look into that. I'm not a very technical player tho

[narrow yew]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/state-behaviors#animator-locomotion-control specifically this is the thing you want. when you disable locomotion control your joysticks don't do anything anymore. in half body that means your feet are locked in to place and turning your headset will still move your hips and upper body a little but it won't rotate you

you are going to have to upload your own avatars or find one that already has a toggle like that in it though. easiest way to modify an avatar you are uploading yourself is probably by changing your locomotion layer to gogoloco like the other person said. https://booth.pm/ja/items/3290806 you download it here and read through the tutorials, it's not too difficult

[ruby musk]

does anyone know why after calibrating for a second time, my avatar is stuck calibrating on its tippy-toes?

makes me have to restart if i ever try recalibrating ;~;

[worn bobcat]

Hey Kung, just wondering if the issue with weird tracker serial numbers and apparently mixing things like real vive trackers with something like owo track(i don't have any experience with the latter myself though) to crash vrc on startup was ever fixed?
I'm just wondering since it has been a while since the launch of ik 2.0

Sorry about the horrible punctuation and formatting, on mobile at the moment

[marsh elm]

I think it doesnt crash, but its not an issue anymore

Only some stuff now doesnt work sort of on purpose, namely using vive wands without flashing them as trackers

[worn bobcat]

alright cool, however i am a bit interested in what the cause was

[marsh elm]

Probably just not expecting nonstandard device names

[worn bobcat]

as far as i'm aware ATT has nonstandard serial numbers and that worked at the time

[marsh elm]

ATT?

And im talking about device name not serial numbers

not LHR-69696969, but "VIVE Tracker Pro MV" (name for vive tracker 2.0) for example

Fbt solutions that didnt comform to the expected device names for trackers and controllers borkes out

[worn bobcat]

April tag trackers
https://github.com/ju1ce/April-Tag-VR-FullBody-Tracker

[worn bobcat]

the name was never the issue at least for touchlink

it was the serial number that was causing it, at least for touchlink

[marsh elm]

Pretty sure the issue was device names

Especially on touchlink, they even made a branch for updating it

[worn bobcat]

nope

i was the one who made the or for the fix

the device names might have caused issues, but at least that wasn't the case with touchlink

it took me too long to figure out what was causing it :(

(as a side note, it was also the serial numbers that caused the vrobject to not show up in neos, because it had a duplicate serial number. but that's unrelated)

[worn bobcat]

sorry, if my tone comes across wrong or stuff doesn't read right. my brain's kinda like mush at the moment

[digital grove]

What is an "or"

[worn bobcat]

you know.. that's a really good question

[digital grove]

[worn bobcat]

i think i lost my train of thought in the middle of that haha

like i said, mush

[digital grove]

So what did you make then

Were you hallucinating everything

[worn bobcat]

i fixed a bug in oculus touch link that was caused by the vrc ik 2.0 update

[marsh elm]

it was all in your head

ik2 never happened

[worn bobcat]

was eac in my head too?

have i gone insane?

oh no

[digital grove]

yes

[maiden rock]

https://twitter.com/captaincatvr/status/1563175804653096960

captaincat (@captaincatvr)

I created an alternative chest tracker mount which may form to some chests better.
It has the added bonus of moving the tracker further up on the chest, potentially improving tracking based on some comments from @Kung_VR
print: https://t.co/4ORGSpL9zb

Twitter · Aug 26, 2022, 2:45 PM

kung too powerful

[digital grove]

whoah

how to get the skills to create that kind of stuff

study industrial design maybe

[marsh elm]

actually very cool design

[maiden rock]

There's alread an updated STL to make the bottom bracket curved

[marsh elm]

how does it look in the back? Y shape design like the front?

or does the shoulder straps reach down to the horizontal strap

[maiden rock]

It reversed the GoPro mount system

So it connects in an upside down 4 way

Where the bottom strap is

[digital grove]

yeah this woman knows too much

[marsh elm]

oh shit

too powerful

[digital grove]

Imma say she probably did study industrial design

[maiden rock]

Cat is an engineer by trade

[static beacon]

This is where I'd put my tundra tracker

If I had one

[carmine gate]

The issue was never the "model" or the "serial number"

the issue was the trackeddeviceclass not being generic_tracker

Touchlink gets confusing, because between all the forks, I can only confirm that my, aeroscripts' and hekky's forks use "proper" trackers

[worn bobcat]

touchlink always used generic_trackers

what do you mean?

[marsh elm]

aurora's right, i mixed up tracker type and device name

but basically that

it works fine if you use touchlink for controllers

[worn bobcat]

as you can see here it tells it to be a generic_tracker
https://github.com/mm0zct/Oculus_Touch_Steam_Link/blob/d3f01201de6af978fc9053a85b11f9835ae0c0b9/CustomHMD/OculusTouchLink.cpp#L527

this is from the newest version of touch link with the path for the ik 2.0 update

https://github.com/mm0zct/Oculus_Touch_Steam_Link/blob/fec72c891fe6f7de7dba7a2eabcea92eb3c46123/CustomHMD/OculusTouchLink.cpp#L551

and this is from before that patch, still a generic_tracker

[marsh elm]

borked if you use it as trackers before update

[worn bobcat]

what update?

[marsh elm]

before touchlink was fixed or whatever

[worn bobcat]

i'm not sure if you noticed or not.. but i'm the one who "fixed" it

[marsh elm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[worn bobcat]

you can go confirm yourself that is was the serial number

[worn bobcat]

the actual serial number and name they get assigned are slightly above the line these both link to

should be line 488ish

i mean obviously it looks like both were issues but with touchlink it was the serial numbers causing it

i mean, you were there when we figured out what was causing it..

[marsh elm]

im probably mixing it up with something else

i just had kung's message on my head

[worn bobcat]

yeah, that's fair. it looks like the issue with serial numbers was not as common as the not using generic_trackers.

which i didn't even know was an issue

[rotund citrus]

with ik 2 theres a bug when whenever i switch avatars or world im thrown into the pc walkaround stance and mirrors and cameras cant see me so im confused

[harsh lagoon]

that kind of reminds me of a thing that happens with playspace mover when you're way way too far from your original point, maaayyybe that? I doubt it though

[oak pendant]

Hi Delta, as of currently available builds there are no changes there yet. But when the next open beta is available it will have changes to the serial number handling and also non-generic_tracker handling to try and solve/improve this issue. By the way, thank you for your efforts in patching community tools in the meantime!

[raw wadi]

Am still having my sole in the ground on FBT and never got rid of that issue. I fix the floor with ovr since it's always offset when starting steam VR and the user height match me.

[rugged trench]

have the same issue, but OVR advanced settings fixes that

https://tenor.com/view/anime-idk-i-dont-know-no-se-no-lo-se-anime-gif-14074199

[jovial shadow]

If you touch the floor with our controller, it should be the floor in the steamvr menu room / dome aswell, if not you either need to re-setup your playspace or use ovr advanced settings to fix it, not a vrchat issue

[oak pendant]

The "Set Standing Height" button that's part of the Horizon Adjust row could also help if you don't have something like OVRAS to correct your floor height

It'll do something similar to what happens when you toggle seated play and it sets your arbitrary height as full on standing, but works in standing play as well.

[chrome furnace]

Hey I’m looking for someone named ALEX OB or something

[digital grove]

What's that got to do with inverse kinematics

[gilded dawn]

anyone know if its possible to use index controllers as knee/elbow trackers, as far as i know it should be possible but i cant seem to get it working, they show up as trackers but when i calibratethey dont actually do anything

[rustic berry]

to my knowledge it's not possible without flashing the firmware to make steamvr think they are trackers

used to be possible, but no longer due to how IK2 works

[oak pendant]

The "GenericTracker" restriction is now lifted in the current open beta. Also serial number handling is a bit different. It'd be great if anyone who had issues with non standard tracking setups could test it out in the open beta and see how that goes.

[gilded dawn]

im in the beta so i can give it another try in a bit

[oak pendant]

--enable-ik-debug-logging would be good to use also if you do run into issues

[gilded dawn]

it worked just fine out the box, didnt need the startup command

[oak pendant]

Nice! So just to confirm, all you've done is turn on extra index controllers and used them as trackers? Or in other words, what are the details of your setup?

[gilded dawn]

i was using a quest 2 for head and hands, 3 vive trackers as hips and feet, and 2 index controllers as knees

[oak pendant]

Using link cable, or airlink or virtual desktop?

Thanks for the details btw! It's really useful to know under what conditions it worked in case it doesn't work for other people.

[marsh elm]

Are controllers supported as trackers without flashing now, or...?

[oak pendant]

Hopefully 🙏

or "in theory" but it had issues before without the generic tracker restriction, so I'm very interested in how testing that goes for everyone

(this is in the current open beta btw)

[gilded dawn]

i was using a cable, my wifi sint good enough for airlink ;-;

[marsh elm]

Well, cowboy, i happen to have 6 fucking vive wands, so I'll give 'em a spin

[oak pendant]

ok cool, thanks for the info!

[oak pendant]

noice!

[gilded dawn]

np ^-^

[digital grove]

Need a vrchat "banned" emoji

[marsh elm]

calibration caltrops are great, but maybe can we do something about this fuckin thing on my face (tracker on hmd)? lol

this really doesnt have to be visible every time we open the menu

or be visible in first person

every time i open the menu it be like

[oak pendant]

Oh my... Yeah please add feedback here: https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1236-use-steamvr-rendermodel-of-tracker-instead-of-what-is-being-used-in-the-bet I assume with your setup you'd previously also have the tracker ball show there but it was less of an issue because it was smaller?

[marsh elm]

probably? it wasnt in view i guess

[oak pendant]

In your case you have a tracker on your head though right? I assume this is for oculus and steam playspace alignment

[marsh elm]

i have a vive tracker on my hmd for calibration, yeah

funny mixed tracking shenanigans

[oak pendant]

Ok thanks for info. Yeah, makes sense why this is happening. I'm getting a lot of useful feedback in that canny there, so will likely be some changes once I collect info on all the issues everyone has

[marsh elm]

in the case of the canny i like the caltrops over the render model

but maybe making the ones near the viewpoint not show first person, idk

[oak pendant]

Yeah SteamVR rendermodel isn't feasible probably. I can only imagine all the new issues non-standard tracking setups would have if we tried to force that

There will likely need to be some kind of option not to have large/spikey models in some way because users are having phantom sense issues with them

[marsh elm]

individual tracker options would be messy, so it'd probably have to be something automatic, but i dont have any ideas

[marsh elm]

i see

[oak pendant]

In your case you'd likely need to use that option. And also maybe separating out the auto show on menu open into its own toggle to display or hide trackers at any given time

[marsh elm]

phantom sense issues with the calibration caltrops... brand new sentence lol

[oak pendant]

and not have the menu force display

[marsh elm]

oh yeah, probably a toggle to show/hide trackers on menu would do it for me

havent ever found it to be all that useful tbh

[oak pendant]

That would also allow you to close the menu and have them shown whenever you want

[marsh elm]

ill drop my comments on the canny later

[oak pendant]

thanks 🙏

[worn bobcat]

i'm gonna try the original serial numbers we were having issues with later this week, when i have access to my desktop again

[oak pendant]

Awesome, thanks for checking when you have a chance. I look forward to hearing how it goes

[marsh elm]

there, added my feedback

[narrow yew]

why are my knee trackers trying to bind to my shoulders and arms?

[marsh elm]

You got big guns bro, you lift?

😂

[narrow yew]

💪

[marsh elm]

Did you increase the calibration range on the startup commands?

[narrow yew]

i think i might have it 1.0 actually but isn't that the default now?

i'll take it off next time i restart

[marsh elm]

Though it was 0.6

Or 0.4 something like that

[narrow yew]

but this wasn't an issue before this new beta

[marsh elm]

You got swoler

[oak pendant]

Yeah that's not the default calibration range. For now you should remove the calibration range customization you added to your launch options. In general the zones check nearby zones to see if their tracker is being eaten by the wrong zone. But elbows and knees are far enough apart that it doesn't do that currently

Of course all zones could check all other zones, but the ranges need to be calculated each frame, so for now they only check nearby ones

I might need to either implement a different maximum range, or have them start checking further zones depending on the range configured

[narrow yew]

i removed the launch parameter and it's working fine now 👍

[umbral forge]

It has happened to me twice but seems like booting up VRChat before turning on your trackers makes the QM miss showing some settings. Like Toggle FBT and Lock options. Open beta of course. Here's the canny https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1238-ik-settings-on-qm-missing

[ashen stirrup]

is there a way to make the knee trackers follow tracker position instead of rotation?

[devout current]

Wdym?

[ashen stirrup]

i mean currently from what i noticed the knees are following tracker rotation which is innacurate for my setup can i make it try to follow the position?

[oak pendant]

The foot will take priority over the knee, but the knee will reach in the direction of the knee tracker. If the legs are proportioned so that both are able to match simultaneously it'll positionally follow the knee pretty well, but if the foot's position prevents the knee from aligning the foot will win out

Or do you mean without knee tracker?

In that case you may want to mess around with the AV3 IKPose to change how that avatar's knee aligns relative to the foot

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/playable-layers#ik-pose

[devout current]

and they were never seen again

[digital grove]

Classic

But as usual, when you feel the knee doesn't accurately follow your actual knees, what you need is knee trackers, i.k. is not magic it can only do so much

[silk olive]

So this is a complaint with ik 2 but I wish I could customize my ik settings per avatar. Kind of like a certain thing people used to use but can't do to EAC now. It involved tweaking the IK and i would love to see something like that implemented officially for the VRchat enthusiasts. IK 2.0 is fine for most people but there are also people with non humanoid avatars who used said thing to help their avatars look correct.

which is why i'd love to see something like that implemented officially

Maybe kind of like a special settings page in the avatars menu where you could access the settings like spine bending angle?

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/provide-in-depth-ik-configuration-options-for-enthusiasts

This canny actually already exists and it's like part of the top 4

[worn bobcat]

only just got around to trying it, it looks like the serial numbers we were having issues with work fine now

[oak pendant]

Nice! Thanks for taking the time to confirm it

[oak pendant]

Yeah moving on that has been held back mostly because it would need to be in the new main menu. After the main menu update is released then steps can start to be taken there, starting from lowest hanging fruit like the launch options that were always kind of a temporary thing to get stuff available during ik-beta. I'm also aware that people want* wrist and knee angle offset configuration.

[worn bobcat]

i tested a few other serial numbers and they all seemed to work, except duplicates (that'd cause steamvr to crash)

[gloomy phoenix]

How do you see where your trackers are binded to?

[marsh elm]

The advanced calibration visualization available on beta shows you

Or you can, you know

Calibrate and see what moves with each tracker

[devout current]

Yup the Calibration view is great!

[marsh elm]

People say its noisy but i love it

Really got me to understand how the binding works

[devout current]

Well it's a lot of info, but that's what people want I suppose.

Honestly I also got kinda used to the "spikes" I wasn't a fan of them at first but now I don't really have a problem with them.

[marsh elm]

It never really mattered to me

You see it for 10s when you calibrate once a session

[devout current]

(And when opening your Menu)

[marsh elm]

Only issue i had was my hmd tracker putting a caltrop in front of my eyes lol

[marsh elm]

Which yeah, was visible in the menu and annoying

[devout current]

Well Kung is good to replace them anyway.

[marsh elm]

^

Lol

[devout current]

XD

[marsh elm]

I just want them gone in the menu

Voilà

[devout current]

IIRC that's also something Kung wants to do.

Anyway @oak pendant do you already know what you are going to replace the spikes with etc?

(Would be nice if we could give some feedback before it goes into a beta)

[coral marsh]

hip lock

[marsh elm]

... ok?

[raw wadi]

Any way to fix the slight body offset when moving that happen when locomotion is desactivate in the quick menu.

I try to do it myself by changing the idle animation but nothing has change.

Whatever is use, quick menu or custom controller. The results are the same.

[devout current]

That happens because when locomoting you are basically in lock head mode

So when you for example are in lock head mode you won't notice it

In lock hip mode you do though

[tulip ledge]

Any news regarding the ability to tweak the IK like a certain modification that used to exist?

Cus the way the legs bend in lock head is so starting to get on my nerves and the viewpoint drift is heavy in lock hips

[raw wadi]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/avatar-30/p/posespace-behavior-using-horizon

[devout current]

Well seems like we got a reply but on the canny instead of here :p

[rose beacon]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1236-add-ik-options-to-new-settings

[devout current]

That was already planned, not sure if an extra canny for it was needed :p

[oak pendant]

Yep, that's on my radar. But it's more of an "after MM is out" thing than trying to do at the same time, otherwise this beta could end up delayed

[devout current]

I remember UI 1.5 being in Beta for like 2 months. At least it was mostly bug free when it got out

[oak pendant]

I think that one is meant to be a request in the current open beta canny rather than IK2 but yeah, it's being considered more for after this open beta is out to release rather than simultaneously. I'll merge it in to the proper canny for you @rose beacon

[rose beacon]

ah alright, thankyou

sorry for my misunderstanding

didn't see a planed tag on the original post so i figured i should bring it up again

[oak pendant]

Ah no worries. Yeah, the threshold to mark stuff on canny is a bit higher than to just openly discuss status in discord (at least personally when I mark stuff)

[worn bobcat]

@oak pendant Let me use full body while i'm RMAing my other controller :(

[fiery plinth]

set trackers role to disabled

[worn bobcat]

?

[tulip ledge]

Ayo why tf my legs bend when I look down in lock head?

[worn bobcat]

because you're locking your head position, so if your view isn't in the right place on your avatar, it'll still lock to your head by bending your legs

probably explained that horribly, but at least you should get the gist of it

[devout current]

Your view ball is either to far in or outside of your head.

[tulip ledge]

Hmm, never had this issue with ik tweeks, and the viewpoint is fine, happens with 99% of avis.

[empty root]

my video should explain why quite well wiothout words

[raw wadi]

Don't see it

[raw wadi]

I think that cause by the distribution of the spine length

[grand field]

same issue here. The knees bending makes lock head near unusable. for anything other than standing up straight

and lock both does the weird spine bend for most of VRChat models

(speaking of which whats the proper way to set up the spine for " lock both")

my current spine setup

It's nearly straight but I believe vaguely seeing an image that said it had to be perfectly straight to function properly

[tulip ledge]

I don't think a teeny tiny bit of leeway makes a difference

Think its to do with the spine solver. never happened with a certain IK mod that existed

[oak pendant]

Looking down slightly while binding in with lock-both mode (not using legacy calibration) will get people behavior that's closest to what they seem to be looking for here. The overall behavior of the spine solving still needs a deeper polish pass similar to what the arm direction got a few patches back.

Separate topic: If anyone is on the open beta and using unique / non standard setups with emulated tracker drivers, vive wands as trackers, flashed vive wands to behave as trackers, etc etc... and you can check out how the new tracker model option behaves when set to Tracker: System (in the quick menu settings page) I'd be interested to hear about it. You can reply to this message with @ turned on.

[unborn whale]

Would it ever be a possibility to add the "look down about x degrees to give the neck some leeway" a menu option somewhere, so it's not as much of a guess each time (so we can save/set the offset. I usually need to calibrate 2-3 times and test it before hitting the sweet spot (per avatar)

Make it more of a science and less of an art.

[oak pendant]

The looking down method is kind of a workaround that has its own drawbacks, rather than further integrate it as a kind of native option, better separate handling of the spine solving would be the way to go I think.

[marsh elm]

What would you like to know about it?

I can get a cursed setup here depending on what you want to see lol

[oak pendant]

For example "I tried vive wands as trackers (unflashed) and THIS happened! -clickbait- 😁

[marsh elm]

Top 10 flashed wand moments

[oak pendant]

for things like vive wands unflashed / flashed, the LIV camera as a tracker thing, maybe some of the kinect setups, the various IMU tracker systems like SlimeVR / HaritoraX or anything else like that

no need to do them all comprehensively, but if anyone has any setup like that or other setup that's not just a HTC or Tundra tracker, I'd like to hear how it goes with the rendermodels

[marsh elm]

Ill see how much shit i can mix at once then

Will report back with results

Kinect + vive wands (both flashed/unflashed)+cv1 (both converted and unconverted) + slime tracker

[oak pendant]

thanks!

[marsh elm]

I'll even convert my vive hmd as a tracker as a bonus

[oak pendant]

Ooo, yeah no need to break stuff for my sake if it's risky but if you have the time and motivation to test all that I'd be happy to hear how it goes 🙏

[marsh elm]

Dont tell anyone but ive done it before 😅

Biggest waist tracker in the market

"You wouldn't believe the battery life and occlusion on THIS tracker! (clickbait)"

[oak pendant]

It would have superb occlusion resistance

[devout current]

Yeah that's sadly one downside of small trackers like the Tundra.

I've seen a few people using the Vive 3.0s for the waist and Tundras for the feet

[marsh elm]

Tracker so big you can leave the room and it keeps tracking

[devout current]

Btw how does the system handle different trackers at the same time? Will it use one model for all or will each tracker have its own model?

[desert cape]

ive been havin an issue lately where my neck and chest snaps. and doesnt actually bend at the hips. its almost like the game detects it as 2 feet and chest tracker

[marsh elm]

@oak pendant this cursed enough? 😂

lol

[timber grove]

CALM DOWN MAN you are reaching into territory unknown

That’s a lotta devices

[marsh elm]

lighthouse alright on vrc

[marsh elm]

cv1 good too

and it works good fellas

ignore shoddy calibration i was holding all of them by hand 😂

kinect and owo show up as trackers just normal

i briefly had an issue where my character was rapidly vibrating in between the hmd i was wearing, and the cv1 on the floor but a restart fixed it lol

[acoustic snow]

vive hmd flashed as a tracker... why?

presuming you're actually using it as a tracker, how are you attaching it to yourself???

[marsh elm]

because why not, i am a man of science

i used it for a week before i got a waist tracker lol

[acoustic snow]

i respect doing it for the sake of trying it. how did you attach it to your waist?

[marsh elm]

i tied up the side handle bits with string and tape onto a belt

then just wore the belt

[worn bobcat]

omega cursed

[midnight turret]

raise hand why the kinect?

[marsh elm]

why, for fullbody of course

😂

i dont use everything at the same time btw, the picture is just a meme haha

[worn bobcat]

why aren't you?

i think you should

[marsh elm]

me using all my 20 tracking points on my waist

for superior occlusion resistance

[worn bobcat]

hell yeah

you'll never lose tracking then

[oak pendant]

🙌 That's the perfect amount of cursed! Thanks @marsh elm! Looks like stuff basically just works. That's great to know

[mild nimbus]

always the best part of any dev, the "huh it just works, neat" moment

[oak pendant]

Yeah indeed. No particular reason it wouldn't work, but so much room for untested stuff when we just support any and all SteamVR rendermodels. So glad it got some heavy testing thanks to Venom

[grave hatch]

What's this channel for exactly? Can I post my IK issues here? I'm confused as there's no channel description. :s

From past comments looks like it's a dev testing channel.

I am going to cross-link my post from #user-support-old please let me know if this is inappropriate in this channel.

#user-support-old message

[marsh elm]

just a place to discuss ik and fbt

it was used for the ik beta before it went live

kung keeps an eye here every now and then, so if its something down to IK he'll probably have something to say

[oak pendant]

This channel is for ongoing dev / communication about the IK2.0 update. As Venom mentioned it used to be mainly about ik-beta before it released, but now that it's live, if you're having issues with IK in live this would be a good place to post it. There's also the canny for IK2.0 here which would be an even more appropriate place for an issue report: https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20

I can see your issue is about knee bending, if you could post screenshots or especially a video, that helps a lot

[grave hatch]

Thanks I'll post a video as soon as I can.

[harsh lagoon]

if anyone ever tells me something cant be done ill use you as an example

[devout current]

Why tf do you have 5 Vive Wands? xD

[marsh elm]

6

[raw wadi]

You're a wizard teH

[buoyant geyser]

You can go to war with this clubs...

[silver geyser]

don't post the same exact post to literally every channel

[timber grove]

Wait, knee and elbow angle adjustment??

KUNG I LOVE YOU this will make my experience so much betterrrrrr

[marsh elm]

finally

[oak pendant]

Knee and wrist* and it's not in just yet

Did tupper phrase it differently? I had better go read the post

Ok cool yeah Tupper got it right. So yeah that would be the wrist rotation when you grip the controller (that whole issue people gave a bunch of feedback on about how the index controller feels wrong for some people)

[timber grove]

Oh, I’m sorry I phrased it wrong. But still!

Omg, I’m so excited for those new features.

Many, many, many others and I really appreciate all the work that goes into VRChat. Keep it up!

[oak pendant]

Thanks! I didn't mean to dunk on you for phrasing, I was just worried there was telephone game going on between me and Tupper or something

[timber grove]

Ah, sorry, it’s all ok.

[jovial shadow]

Any new on, when the calibration scaling issue with high heels will be improved?

Since currently it is still measuring the length of the heel as body hight causing the calibration to be not really usable

Only other option is to rig the foot bone straight and causing the heels to be in the floor so you always need to use playspace mover to move yourself back up

[timber grove]

I like how the new SteamVR tracker rendermodel looks in calibration mode. Great work!

also I did wonder why there was no texture on the tracker model

[devout current]

At least Kung found a way for the textures to be used :p

[lean badger]

seems in open bet you get stuck when switching avatars or changin certain options when legacybcalibration is on

also the workaround i had for this bug: https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/avatar-floats-during-calibration-on-ik-20-when-using-legacy-fbt-calibrate of toggling avatar measurement while calibrating has stopped working

btw, I have found more avatars it happens for if it helps. seems to affect mainly small avatars

would getting IK debug logs and taking pictures in the world that shows bones help debugging that? I have quite a few avatars affected, and I still can't get used to the new calibration system (can't line up my body correctly, with the avatar body often being "behind" my actual body

[zenith linden]

Is it possible to fix body freezing when going trough walls and objects? In fullbody, you can playspace in the ground and ceiling without issues, but its so annoying getting stuck when trying to dance or simply walk around and get stuck on a prop, like a table

[marsh elm]

Not right now, no

I'm sure there's a canny for it though

[zenith linden]

Such an obvious feature, i dont get why they never tried to fix it

Its litterally the only reason i was using 3rd party software before eac

[raw wadi]

Try to use a ghost type avatar

[burnt wagon]

@oak pendant I have been doing some IK experiments in VRChat. In your 2020 fbt tutorial you have the hip bone above the thigh. In mine I have it below the thigh. Seing how you work on IK for fbt I would like some insight on why this works for me.

[devout current]

Who said it wouldn't work?

[burnt wagon]

I was going off mostly memory of kungs vid. Checked the beginning part to double check. Kung has their hip bone above the eye high.

[raw wadi]

we are in 2022

thing have change

[oak pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/worldofwar-timeschange-change-garrosh-gif-13230689

[oak pendant]

But yeah, my awareness of all those issues back in 2020 was on my mind when working on the IK2.0 project. Part of the goal was to make things just break less often / make the IK less sensitive to a specific rig setup. So for now it should work with the hip in the position you have it. (Though it's still best to follow a generally normal rig setup because future changes could still break it, but that's mostly down to not doing things like zero-length bones etc)

That whole guide a made back then (and still now) was intended to be used more as "if you have issue X then you can do this solution. If you don't have the issue no need to change anything" I think a lot of people wanted to apply every single fix whether they were having issues or not though

These days pretty much all of those IK related fixes are no longer needed, and the only relevant part of my old guide is the proportional scaling guide because that still walks you through from a zero Blender knowledge starting point

[raw wadi]

That weight paint on that orc face. Not sure I can ever achieve that

[marsh elm]

Great face rigging 🤣

[burnt wagon]

Thank you

[lean badger]

@oak pendant Remember the issue I found that causes certain avatars (particularly small ones) to float when doing legacy calibration?

Seems like the workaround I used to do (toggling avatar measurement after pressing calibrate) no longer works... So I'd like to help out with finding what causes the underlying issue to get it fixed. FWIW I have found a few more avatars that exhibit the same symptom

My only working workaround at the moment is to calibrate with another avatar then switch, or to use non-legacy calibration (at least it can be toggled at runtime now though, which is nice)

[oak pendant]

I'm kind of curious what would happen if you start non-legacy calibration on one of the affected avatars, and while still mid-calibration you open the MM back up and toggle on legacy calibration mode

[lean badger]

I forgot to mention that open beta was what caused the workaround to stop workinf

[lean badger]

I'll try it

still floats

[oak pendant]

One of the changes when getting legacy calibration into the MM was that it needed to be able to dynamically apply at different times than it could previously, so it makes sense that a previous workaround might stop working because it's handled slightly differently now

Hmm interesting

[lean badger]

IIRC the workaround stopped working in open beta prior to the legacy calibrate toggle being added to MM even

[oak pendant]

Hmm yeah I still don't know what the cause is*. In your Canny you mentioned that it happens in SDK2 avatars, if you upload the same avatar rig as SDK3 does the issue persist?

[lean badger]

no, the SDK2 thing was another bug that has long since been fixed. the floating issue happens on both SDK2 and SDK3. Just that the sample avatar that was publically available is SDK2

I have found some other avatars that are publically available and SDK3 which also has the floating in elgacy calibration

Here's video of the floaty calibration with toggling legacy calibrate, plus showing workatound not working + showing absence of the problem on legacy IK

I'll try with another avatar next

[oak pendant]

If you can an avatar ID for an SDK3 avatar to your canny that would be good

I'd expect legacy IK to not have an issues since the code there is mostly just in stasis as much as possible

[lean badger]

also video ended up showing the bug where the MM gets stuck tilted sometimes heh

[oak pendant]

What happens if you set avatar measurement to "Measure by Height" mode and then click the new auto set height button, and then see if it floats or not in legacy calibration

this auto set button I mean

[lean badger]

this is an SDK3 nanachi that is public and has the floaty issue

ID avtr_e85cd98d-c4b2-4dcf-8430-8bed0791b036

going to try auto set height

Auto set height doesn't seem to do so much

[oak pendant]

After you use the auto set height, to set your user real height, without modifying your user real height, start a new calibration and then toggle on and off legacy and see if the avatar shifts

[lean badger]

should i start with legacy on or off?

[oak pendant]

That doesn't really matter, just use the user real height setting that the auto-set provides, and be in avatar by-height scaling mode

then start up a calibration and toggle on and off legacy to see if the avatar shifts vertically or not

[lean badger]

ok

[oak pendant]

this is specifically ruling out a user real height / playspace setup reason for the issue, since it'll measure and set the user real height given whatever your current floor height and standing height is

[lean badger]

oh.. should I run w/o OVR advanced settings?

i usually calibrate floor height with that...

[oak pendant]

legacy mode aligns to the floor while new calibration aligns to headset. So these steps will remove any head-to-floor distance discrepancy

If following those steps I listed it won't matter for this test

[lean badger]

seems no different

auto is only abput 2-3 cm off from my actual height

floating is more 20 cm or so

[oak pendant]

Ok cool that rules out one cause, thanks for testing

[lean badger]

i can fit my controller under the feet of the avatar when floating

with ,argin

margin

[oak pendant]

Yeah, it appears it's not a user height / playspace setup issue

[lean badger]

all affected avatars I have found have been small

less than 1 m

did you get the ID of this nanachi?

[oak pendant]

I don't think I have it, it'd be good to post in your canny

oh you posted above as well too

[lean badger]

i'll add it to canny too

Updated canny (comment) https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/avatar-floats-during-calibration-on-ik-20-when-using-legacy-fbt-calibrate

small avatars affected, but interestingly not all small avatars

[oak pendant]

Yeah I'm still not sure of the root cause

[lean badger]

maybe something scaling related?

[oak pendant]

Seems like that would affect similarly sized avatars the same

I wonder if the root transform on upload of those avatars is 1,1,1 scale or not

[lean badger]

if it's small in the FBX vs small through scaling down in unity

[oak pendant]

ah yeah I see you were thinking the same thing I was then, that kind of scaling

yeah could be a reason

[lean badger]

i have other avatars that are huge in the FBX then scaled down to sensible size in unity, and those have some interesting quirks at least (but calibration works just fine)

[oak pendant]

Hmm, is it only on avatar with digitigrade legs?

[lean badger]

might be

depends on how they've set the bones up of course

no fancy constraints based solutions here at least

[oak pendant]

Yeah, pretty mysterious. I might have time to poke at it a bit later on today

Thanks for testing all the stuff I mentioned above, that rules out a bunch of other things.

Interesting, looks like a sword art online refence. But yeah I dunno

Probably wrong channel for that question tho

[lean badger]

NP. I hope we can find the root cause... (I still have trouble getting used to the new calibration... it works well only for some avatars for me, if the viewpoint has been set up very well. Usually it is too far forward...)

[oak pendant]

Yeah if you're not making your own avatars then it is a bit hard to get the feet right where you want them. If you are making your own avatar, you can change the TPose pose that plays during calibration to swing the legs into position to match up your feet better

[lean badger]

Found one that floats super high XP

[lean badger]

Yeah, been meaning to fix up some of my own avatars for it at some point... but I have quite a library of them to go through...

[oak pendant]

Woah if you can add the id of that one to the canny that would be helpful too

[lean badger]

btw, this one is freely downloadable: https://store.vket.com/ec/items/6364/detail/

it's a private upload, but it's downloadable ^

added it to the canny as a new comment

maybe i could make my upload public as well

depends on how you read the license, which doesn't allow secondary distribution (but does that apply to making it public?)

[oak pendant]

I can't give official advice on that but seems like the kind of thing it would be good to ask the creator about

It's ok not to set it public, I got the package from vket

[lean badger]

cool

[oak pendant]

I wanted to check the scaling in the setup scene, looks like it's 1,1,1

[echo lily]

any info on how to setup a wrist twist bone?

or examples of avatars for sale that have it so i may look

[rustic berry]

if your avatar already has one, just need to add a rotation constraint

set the weight to 0.5, disable X and Z, add the wrist bone as the source, and click Activate

[pulsar pelican]

I guess this one could be relevant to the IK2 https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1245-disable-fbt-problem

[wide grove]

There a way to tweak any values for the chest tracker? I'm getting an issue where any kind of bending forward makes my upper torso dislocate if both hips and head are locked. This is happening on all of my avis. Both properly proportioned ones and not.

I did read somewhere that you can make slight adjustments either in launch settings or elsewhere but I'm not sure what those commands are.

[weary oasis]

turn on legacy calibration and see if that fixes your issue.

[wide grove]

legacy calibrate don't support chest and elbows, though?

[pulsar pelican]

It does. I use it without problems.

[wide grove]

are we talking the legacy calibrate you can enable in launch options or the one in the quick menu? Cause using the QM one doesn't seem to detect them at all.

[pulsar pelican]

Ok, to clear this up. Legacy calibrate was the launch option. It's now moved to settings -> IK. That one supports elbows and knees. Legacy IK is set in QM. That is using the old IK that didn't have support for more trackers.

[wide grove]

okay, so enabling the legacy calibrate in the launch options allows for more tracker.

[pulsar pelican]

Yes. But as mentioned it's not a launch option any more. It's in main menu > settings > IK

[wide grove]

ah

[devout current]

Lagacy Calibration changes nothing about IK, the only thing it does it to change the way you calibrate, that's it.

[marsh elm]

Legacy calibration magically shortens the spine to match you irl, so that it doesn't buckle when you bend down now

[devout current]

Lmao

@wide grove How does the rig of your Avatar look? Also, do Lock Head or Lock Hip work better?

Lock All is known to uhm not be perfect

[marsh elm]

Ya

[pulsar pelican]

Lock all gives me that perfect gaming posture

[marsh elm]

The avatar's gotta be pretty much hand adjusted to you

[maiden rock]

I'm not touching lock both ever again

Until it gets some love

[marsh elm]

Because humans tend to be a little squishy, and our current rig system doesn't account for that

[maiden rock]

It's like working with toe tracking flex sensors, they don't just bend and keep their positions, they have to slide up and down

[marsh elm]

Thankfully i managed to dial my rig to work great woth lock all, so i get that 1:1 action

Yeehaw

Works even better woth a chest tracker, but strapping a chest tracker is a bit logistically annoying

[pulsar pelican]

I'm kinda close to a good match. But I have no problem with hip lock.

[maiden rock]

My avatar works perfectly in LIV and Neos with 11pt tracking, because I can tune the tracker offset

One day

[marsh elm]

Would be interesting to have a... Lock neither

LOL

Where it tries to lock both, but shares the drifting between both head and waist to minimize buckling

[pulsar pelican]

Isn't that technically like a lock both but with a 50:50 ratio?

Or I might just be stupid now

[marsh elm]

Yeah, i edited the comment

[pulsar pelican]

:)

[marsh elm]

But current lock both has no ratio

None drift, so the rest of the rig has to take up the slack

[pulsar pelican]

I remembered it to favour one over the other in extreme stuff. Like if you pull the headset away from your tracker.

[marsh elm]

Ah well yeah, it cant make the rig do beyond what its able to

I think it favors the head

When my waist drifts, my character stays in place (pretzelled) anchored to the face

[pulsar pelican]

Yeah. So a 50:50 would result your rig to be hanging somewhere in the middle I guess. Or if we just allow stretching of the spine :3

[marsh elm]

Im sure there's some technical reason the lock neither isnt viable, i just think its a funny idea

[pulsar pelican]

It's worth the thought experiment at least

[marsh elm]

im baiting kung into dropping some knowledge for us

[devout current]

I would be nice if we had a "Lock Custom" mode

[marsh elm]

Lock deez

No, wait-

[devout current]

With slider wich control the weight of how strong they try to stick to a tracker.

So you could have mixture between lock head and lock hip

[pulsar pelican]

Chest lock. For that in the middle approach.

[devout current]

Please wait 2 - 3 business days

[marsh elm]

I believe it was good bait

Widgey has been writing up the hottest take there

[devout current]

We could also just ping Kung a lot and annoy them xD

[marsh elm]

For a few minutes already

[marsh elm]

Dew it

[devout current]

Nah

That would be mean

[wide grove]

This is consistent across avis, though it's better on my main, which is specifically proportioned to me.

Lock all is the only one that that allows for any kind of significant movement w/ the chest tracker, which is kind of important if you want to translate chest isolations in game. Though it still gives a hunch if the armature isn't perfect.

Though looking down while calibrating seems to help w/ the neck silliness.

[marsh elm]

At the cost of knee silliness

[wide grove]

Legacy calibration works better against the hunch but half the time my shoulders lock in off-kilter

[marsh elm]

Your legs straighten easier so they lock faster than they should

Cuz of looking down

Better than gamer neck though, i guess

[wide grove]

I've just learned to accept the leg situation and try not to look too far down.

Thinking legacy might be better cause it's just doing the same thing looking down does.

[marsh elm]

It makes me look weird when walking lol, i just adjusted the rig and look forward now 😎

[wide grove]

Also that doesn't change the fact that for me if you hitch your hips forward enough, the neck just starts to rubberband.

full on chicken bobbing type stuff

[devout current]

I just don't really recomend anyone to use lock all. It's known to not be good and Kung wants to improve it. Though atm they are sadly busy with other stuff.

[wide grove]

I just wanna do my chest pops *maaaaan *🥹 *

[knotty acorn]

It looks kind of funny but it’s probably quite accurate for me tbh

I have piss poor posture and the other lock modes hide it while lock all makes it super easy to see, it’s kind of immersive yet annoying

[marsh elm]

Lol

11pt certainly makes me more aware of my posture

[white grail]

I had an avatar particle system break when using the mirrors and camera because it is SDK 2.0. I have posted in Canny 3 times already and no response. I know the 2.0 worlds are going away, but does this affect avatars too.

I'm posting here, because this update is where the problem occurred.

Example

[marsh elm]

Excellent opportunity to update that shit

[devout current]

SDK 2 Worlds and Avatars are depricated. They will only ever get occasional maintance updates.

Also how is this IK related?

[white grail]

I don't have the package from the person who created the avatar for me. But the IK 2.0 update is where the particles went missing in the mirrors and cameras for those who use the avatar. I did make it a public model, and can see the particles in the mirrors and others' streams and recordings.

I will have to find someone who can rebuild the avatar to 3.0 then

@marsh elm @devout current Thank you for your insight and knowledge.

[marsh elm]

Yeah, i wouldn't expect too much importance to be put on fixing this

[white grail]

I'm recently just learning to upload avatars to Blender and Unity myself.

[devout current]

Imo SDK 2 can die and burn in hell xD

Together with the old UI

[white grail]

If the square particles on Quest SDK can be gone, I would be glad as I use both Quest and PC.

[marsh elm]

Square particles?

Transparency ain't happening, if that's it

[white grail]

When being on Quest a user will spit black squares for smoke, but on the PC side it is fire. The Megatron T-Rex has that feature for particles.

[devout current]

Yeah that's because on Quest you can't have transparency

[marsh elm]

Ya, transparency

Its a performance hog so its blocked on the quest, so the fix is to just remove or adapt the particles to not use any transparent parts

[devout current]

Yeah the Quest GPU does not handle it

[white grail]

Oh, so that is what is happening. Thank you again.

[grand lynx]

Hey its been a while since I adjusted it, but the custom arm ratio, a higher number moves the controllers further out from the body, correct?

and a smaller number moves it closer

[lean badger]

Did you manage to figure anything out, why some avatars float in legacy calibration? (Now with the beta going stable my main workaround no longer works)

[lean badger]

Except the menu uses transparency anyway. I can imagine that being a problem on original Quest (I don't have an OG Quest, but the transparencies in the 1.5 UI menu made the VRC on Vive Focus Plus even more unusable than it was before. Vive Focus Plus uses the same chip as original Quest, but it's much much shittier).

Quest 2 though? It can handle it fine. Quest 2 is a lot more powerful than people give it credit for. I feel a lot of restrictions for Quest comes from the OG Quest days.

[oak pendant]

I had a chance to test it out with some extra diagnostics and could get as far as to see that the player root transform was still in the correct spot even though the avatar was stuck up high. I could confirm that it was happening on some of my example smaller avatars as well. And that's as far as I've gotten on diagnosing that issue. At the moment though I'm actually using some PTO until end of next week. I've got a medium stack of stuff waiting for when I'm back on the clock so it could be a little while until I can poke at it more. But I could confirm that it's an issue on my end as well.

Also reading back a bit, on the other topic about legacy calibrate and lock-all, it can do a similar thing to the looking down while calibrating trick. Using legacy calibrate doesn't lock in the accurate instantaneous distance between head and hips when calibrating because your viewpoint isn't aligned, and neither* does looking down because the avatar sinks and then the hips aren't aligned. In the case where the misalignment tightens the spine you might see better results with lock all. In other words, the looking down trick and legacy calibrate would work for the same reasons.

[marsh elm]

The problem isnt transparency ever, obviously it can handle a menu not being opaque

The problem is unoptimized user content stacking transparency on top of transparency, and that cost adds up hard

Its like audio, its blocked

Obviously the quest has speakers so it supports it, the only problem is giving that freedom to users

[marsh elm]

Kuuung what's your opinion on the nock neither thing, an adjustable drift weight between head/waist? 😆

[oak pendant]

I've thought about doing that, but it would mostly only be visible when pulling too far rather than during spine compression. I think when pulling too far people would prefer to be stuck to the head rather than hip in most cases, in case of hip tracker occlusion. During spine compression it's possible to lock in both because they're within range of each other. When working on further spine improvements though I now have space in the main menu to stick options if it seems like some kind of slider to config something there would give the best behavior.

My first plan for addressing the spine compression issues though is to allow for actual length compression of the spine bone (length between spine and chest bone, usually weighted to the belly area)

[marsh elm]

I love sliders, hell yeah

[marsh elm]

Compressible bones would be very pog indeed

[oak pendant]

That should allow for actual retention of locking both, so no view drift and no knee bending, in theory of course. I didn't do it back in old ik-beta dev because it needs a change to the netcode to sync the compression

so it wouldn't have been live compatible

[marsh elm]

But i can imagine how such a thing would have to be dictated by the avatar creator though

Or maybe strongly encouraged, with an user override of sorts

Nearclip distance warning style

[oak pendant]

Yeah, I'll have to see how it goes and test on various avatars. Bone length vary a lot at the hip, but the spine bone tends to be pretty uniform on most avatars I've seen

[marsh elm]

Yeah, its common for it to be somewhat the size of the belly

[oak pendant]

Wrist and knee angle config is coming next up though. I have that working on my end already, but didn't push it out just yet because of my vacation time and the live release

If it turned out something had gone wrong the timing would have been bad. But that config is pretty much done so should be coming pretty soon.

[marsh elm]

Neat

[lean badger]

Yeah, that is also of course relevant. Interestingly some older UI stuff like the expression menu and portals don't use any transparencies, though.

[lean badger]

One hack I've been using with lock-all to avoid neck-scrunching is, with legacy calibration, space moving a bit up while calibrating. That does seem to help, but does also cause my body to be too far down in first person a little. Not sure if related or not.

Most of the time I end up using lock hip, even in 11 point though.

[devout current]

I always use Lock Head personally

[lean badger]

i switch to that sometimes. depends on avatar and pose. some avatars the viewpoint drift while sitting down is bad enough to warrant lock head

kind of wish there was a shortcut for it, hah

[devout current]

I mean it's already in the Quick Menu what do you want? XD

[lean badger]

Binding it to a button on my controller or so?

[harsh lagoon]

actual bone compression for tracking would be super duper pog i think

i think as long as they're not being stretched or compressed huge amounts, nobody will notice them squeezing but will notice the spine looks normal!

[marble blade]

nanachi's are cool

[vital inlet]

They're not called Nanachi's. Nanachi was a specific character in Made in Abyss. The species is Hollow/Narehate.

[digital grove]

it's still a species from made in abyss so...

[vital inlet]

They're called hollows.

If you wanna fight about it, find me and Nanachi Saisho in Duviri Wastes.

[digital grove]

nah

[marsh elm]

What a good nanachos

[marble blade]

If i say you in vrc ill drop kick with my nanachi beans, I am the realest nanachi

[marsh elm]

Nanacheese

[vital inlet]

Nanachi Saisho does it better.

Not you.

Then again, we specialize in combat.

You know what, yeah, 1v1 me, right fkn now

Besides, you're just slightly above average.

My Hollow avatar is vastly superior.

[tulip ledge]

Please keep Cringe in general chat

[vital inlet]

Cringe my ass, vrcpvp is a thing.

[marsh elm]

Yes, cringe

[vital inlet]

No.

It's a very organized community, unlike this server.

[dusk jacinth]

hey guys! i recently got my tundra trackers and valve base stations and pretty much have everything set up, but when i go to calibrate in vrchat my hips and leg trackers seem to be like half a meter away from where they really are, while my head and hands are fine, does anyone know a fix?

[raw wadi]

Remap your play area maybe

I saw a video saying that you need to sync hybrid setup. Go watch that

[digital grove]

Ovrspace calibrator

For more details check out the tutorials that get posted constantly in the #full-body-tracking channel

[marsh elm]

It's a very organized cringe community, unlike just like this server.

Fixed that for you

[twilit prism]

Do we have any updates or planned fixes for the funky spine and neck behaviour caused by chest tracking using the lock both option.
(other than looking down slightly while calibrating)

I really do love the expressiveness and movement I get from chest tracking in locking both but lord it can really mangle your spine if you sit down and give you gamer neck

[marsh elm]

kung plans to wok on elbows and knee adjustments next, iirc. He was very busy with open beta stuff so far

so ik stuff took a back seat

[twilit prism]

That's completely fair! Thank you!

[worn bobcat]

is the an actual reason for fullbody not working when only a single controller is connected?
or is it just an arbitrary restriction?

[marsh elm]

you need "almost full body" support if you're missing a hand 😂

[worn bobcat]

kung i beg, i need my almost full body

[mortal lagoon]

Most likely it's up to the Final IK devs to fix that, I believe that's what VRChat uses to solve avatar IKs

[vagrant vector]

Doesn't matter if FIK fixes anything because VRC is 3 updates behind

But yes IIRC FBBIK needs both hands, though you could always supply a fake if there is no user input

[digital basalt]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/knees-buckle-even-though-leg-armature-is-straight-and-symmetrical
This issue hasn't been FIXed yet...

[marsh elm]

your avatar be like, "howdy pardner"

😂

[digital grove]

Lmaooo

Looks like a problem with avatar proportions and maybe the height settings tho

[marsh elm]

no, i think the issue is that the knee is TOO straight

IK doesnt know which way to bend unless you give it a slight bend in the armature

same thing with the elbows

if it's not pre-bent then it'll bend however the fuck IK feels like at the time

[digital grove]

Ah Right, gotta read the official armature requirements

Check the vrchat docs

[devout current]

Yup the knee bones should be slightly bend and not completely straight xD

[harsh lagoon]

yeah it needs a tiny tiny tiny bit of an offset

[devout current]

I mean you could also just provide a custom IK pose that does this but I feel like it would be easier to just bent them a bit in blender xD

[oak pendant]

moving your foot bone like this in blender would likely fix this issue:

I'm guessing that it's causing trouble for the default IKPose animation retargeting to it. You could check by applying the default IKPose animation in the SDK to your avatar.

[arctic shell]

first time ive seen a foot rigged like that lol

[marsh elm]

Right? Lol

No shit the ik freaks out

[devout current]

Lmao I didn't even noticed that xD

[digital basalt]

Here is an avatar with the same problem, this one has a second one with a modified bone structure, but sometimes the left leg is poorly defined.
If it is only both legs, I can discount it as a bone structure problem, but only the left leg seems to be a problem with the retargeting algorithm.

[digital grove]

Legs too straight

Perhaps

[raw wadi]

look fine to me

the thing is, the default idle have the left leg kind of strait. ok

but the additive controller give the body a little of wiggle.

so in this case, we go in negative and maybe it's at that point that it break

[marsh elm]

move the knee to the front a little, so the leg makes an angle like this >

the fuckin leg is straiiiightttt

[digital basalt]

I did that before and got a warning that my legs were bent and not proper for FBT.
I adjusted it so that it doesn't come out and now.

[digital grove]

Warned by who

[marsh elm]

By god

[digital grove]

Their official docs say you need a bend

[marsh elm]

Lol

[digital grove]

Don't listen to god, bend the knee

[marsh elm]

You need a bend dude

[marsh elm]

Like try it once

Its not going to blow up your computer

Bend the knee just a liiiitleeeee bit

And test

[digital grove]

... or is it

[marsh elm]

Like this bro

Lil ondie bendy wendy at the knee behind the shed if you know what i mean

[digital basalt]

I am using addative so perhaps that is the closest I can get.
I think the problem could be the addative spec, the default IK pose, and the pose with the straight left leg. (Annoyingly, the useful default poses and addative are embedded, given at upload time, and cannot be modified from the Unity side by playing with the files.)
Adding more sample IK poses for models with straight legs might alleviate this problem.

[digital basalt]

NO

[digital grove]

Is this a tantrum now

Read the official rigging requirements lol

[raw wadi]

use gogo idk

[marsh elm]

Dude

Bend

[digital grove]

Here Mr. Tantrum https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/full-body-tracking

Now bend it

[raw wadi]

bend like tupper tell you so

[marsh elm]

Beeeeeeend

[raw wadi]

they can always put an empty controller in the additive

[marsh elm]

Or

Or or

They can bend the joint 0.1 degree forward

[digital grove]

Very easy and simple solution tbh

[raw wadi]

but that effort

they can just download gogo and read a 15 page documentation

[marsh elm]

I dont see how gogo will fix shit rigging

[raw wadi]

magic

[marsh elm]

I mean, please install gogo anyways lol its great

But bend the nee too

[digital basalt]

The angle between pelvis and thigh bones should be close to 180 degrees.
I got this warning when I bent my knee per upperleg before.
I use FBT, so I follow these kinds of warnings pretty closely. (Some of the time when I use FBT I never had this problem)

[digital grove]

We mean the knee

[marsh elm]

Broo thats the hip area

[fiery plinth]

detach the shin bone, move the head slightly forward

[raw wadi]

don't bend your hip to no one

[marsh elm]

Keep the hips above the pelvis

Make sure the top of the leg bones are not too forward or back compared to the hip bone, a straight 180° angle is the best

Thats the issue you're having

Then go bend the knee

Voila, shit rig fixed

[raw wadi]

are you sure about that

it's knee issue not hip

[marsh elm]

Look at the image n1chigo posted

He has 2 issues

1 - the hip is too low
2 - the knee is not bent

[raw wadi]

don't seen 100% strait

but that a bad placement for ankle

deformation might look bad

[marsh elm]

lol

[topaz elm]

Did something changed in the ik recently, furry avatars need sigthly bend legs to create digitrade effect and just a few days ago, all my avatar legs are being force stretching making them look super awkward

Just a few days ago, bone position offset would be respected but as of recently, legs would be force stretching

[oak pendant]

The last update was 10 days ago (though that update doesn't have any changes meant to affect legs in it)

[topaz elm]

Thanks for the answer, if im using digitrade legs (sightly bend bones), when calibrating legs are being force stretched, if i calibrate and turn off locomotion(or on, just change that setting) leg offset is now respected, but if i calibrate again, i have to do the same, i can record a video tomorrow night

[oak pendant]

Thanks, yeah a video would help. Also just thinking about what could change when VRC hasn't had an update, maybe your floor height calibration has drifted or something. Also if possibly you're not the uploader of the avatar, someone else may have updated the avatar. Otherwise, if it was more than 10 days ago, then it could be affected by a VRC update (also, just to be clear you're not talking about behavior in open beta right?)

Oh another thing, you may have clicked the Avatar Measurement button accidently

This will change how your avatar is scaled, and could maybe cause leg trackers to pull more tightly

[devout current]

How good does IK 2.0 handle digitrade legst btw?

Legs*

[oak pendant]

According to a Canny post user that wanted it, whom I advised to set up the IKPose with the feet rotated in reverse. It worked like that for them

It might get a lot easier once the knee angle slider is in the MM, but that's a user setting, so it would require altering when you swap to a non digitigrade avatar. So the ideal way is to bake it in to the avatar with IKPose

But that option could give another method for people who don't want to mess with IKPose

Hmm actually come to think of it, that was a bird avatar with totally inverted legs

digitigrade has an extra joint. That might still be best served with a constraint setup

[devout current]

Hmmm

[topaz elm]

My digitrade and mostof them is like an illusion, we keep same number of bones and relevant positions but just as recently, again, calibration has been force stretching legs

Can i send you one of my base avatars that i sell @oak pendant ?

[oak pendant]

You could send me an avatar id to one that's uploaded, even if it's not public I can do a local-only check of the avatar behavior with the id.

I assume the undesired behavior is that the toes are curling downwards?

[topaz elm]

Yes

Due to force leg stretching

Sent friend request cause id is my personal avatar and other private bases i sell

Its 9 am, ill try to catch some sleep and do thst when i wake up

[oak pendant]

It's also Satuday night over here so I may not be able to to take a look super soon

[oak pendant]

Ended up doing testing with @topaz elm who helped out a lot (thanks!) We tracked down the issue. Turns out that if you have the freeze trackers on disconnect option checked during calibration it might do odd things to the foot angles. New bug discovered! Anyway posting back here for visibility for anyone who was lurking and curious.

[topaz elm]

Thank you!

[timber grove]

Ultra common W moment for Kung and Nimbat 😄

[topaz elm]

i have a question about foot placement, how is it decided what part of the avatar touch the floor? this is not related to the bug, but some of my avatars, the feet gets inside the floor, like, the floor is where this red line is aprox

[marsh elm]

i always assumed it was the tip of the foot bone

[fiery plinth]

given your user real height is accurate and your playspace floor is accurate it would be 0,0

[marsh elm]

i assumed nimbat meant that the foot clipped the game ground, which isnt related to the playspace

if its the irl floor then yeah, height setting and playspace floor

[raw wadi]

Check the humanoid window in unity

The default idle is a little in the floor. So anyways, lift the hip up in the humanoid to go flat on the floor (move the viewpoint if it's too far).

If you lift the idle animation you end up with bend knee. So lift the humanoid hip instead.

[topaz elm]

id preffer to not having to modify the animator because i upload the models as bases, so the more steps that are needed, the most likely people will break stuff when they edit the avatar, so id like to know what is the reference value en vrchat that is used for the floor and fix it directly in the fbx

[topaz elm]

i think this is the answer i was looking for, thanks!

[marsh elm]

Actually, it might be either the head of the foot bone if you dont have a toe bone

Or the head of the toe bone if you do

Unity doesn't know the length of a bone after all, so no way to know where's the tip without a toe bone

[topaz elm]

i was actually thinking that

for unity, bones is just another transform

i actually lowered the toe bone and it fixed the offset, but the rotation is on a place i dont like

[marsh elm]

Does your avatar actually use the toes?

If you have the bone but not really use it, you can just throw them wherever to fix the clipping then, i guess

[topaz elm]

or, i can set the toe bone in there, and actually have the actual toes in other bones

in case i need them

but i think you are right

[marsh elm]

I meant that if you havent weight painted the toe bones yet

Since the foot... Paw? Looks kinda short for a whole foot/toe assembly 😆

[topaz elm]

i need to fix this in like, 3 avatars

but lowering the toe bone did fixed it, thank you!

[marsh elm]

Nice, good luck

[topaz elm]

ty

[raw wadi]

ok. what is the deal with that vulpix model. I got some post in the GGL discord about issue with that package.

something is not right in there

[topaz elm]

what were they posting?

i have a discord for avatar support

[raw wadi]

Using pose send them in the sky or underground

[topaz elm]

Ah yes

I have no idea why

I can send you the unity package so we can see what is causing that

But i assume is because i used write defaults, im changing that currently

[timber grove]

Ayo, in the dev blog...

Wrist and knee angle adjustments?????????

KUNG

Thank youuuuuu

[oak pendant]

Hope you like it! The FBT function is talked up in that post, but it works in 3pt too (even knee angle)

[timber grove]

I like it a lot. Been something that will definitely help us all out.

Can't wait to use it.

[oak pendant]

People can see the new pose as you play with the slider, so I suspect right when it comes out we'll see a few chicken-dancing 3pt people hehe

And yeah, took kind of a long time to get to it (MM had to be first) but it's straight from Canny feedback

[marsh elm]

funky

[oak pendant]

There'll still be more options coming to that Tracking & IK section, but putting priority on getting stuff in there that enables something you couldn't do before (like toggle on the fly what was a launch option, or these angle settings)

[timber grove]

As a 6 point user, I can confirm I will indeed be chicken dancing for an hour when the patch comes out.

[raw wadi]

Sure because I have no clue what is going on

[worn bobcat]

not sure if anyone has made a canny about this yet, so i made one.
something isn't right about the shoulder ik
https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/shoulder-ik-causing-hands-to-move-away-from-controllers

[devout current]

That's intentional, Kung confirmed that. I'm also not a fan of it though.

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/putting-your-arms-up-is-a-bit-weird

[worn bobcat]

it is?

[devout current]

yup

[worn bobcat]

but why?

what's the reason for it being intentional

[devout current]

Somewhere in this channel is the answer to that question, I probably wont find it anymore though.

[worn bobcat]

it just feels wrong

[devout current]

Oh wow I found it

[digital grove]

I agree with kung

[devout current]

In my opinion it should be something you can turn on / off

As I've also said here:

[worn bobcat]

i'd also greatly appreciate it being optional, i find it very distracting and a bit uncomfortable seeing my in game arm not be where my actual arm is

[devout current]

yup

[digital grove]

I was always very frustrated I couldn't raise the arms all the way up it was quite annoying

[devout current]

That's why it should be an option :p

I know a few people, especially dancers, don't like it.

[digital grove]

I like it with dance

[devout current]

As I said the best thing to do would be to make it a setting

[worn bobcat]

the more customizability the better

[devout current]

Especially for IK stuff

[digital grove]

it looks really stupid when you're dancing

and you're supposed to raise your arms

and they don't go up

[devout current]

The problem is with a lot of Avatars you can naturally fully stretch them out. Which is why I said it should be optional.

I don't get why you are still fighting over this.

Anyway, I've posted a small Update on my canny about it:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816617882099384371/1038851752897826826/image.png

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/putting-your-arms-up-is-a-bit-weird

[digital grove]

I am not fighting just stating my opinion

[maiden rock]

All these workaround for ill-fitted avatars negatively impact fitted avatars

That is, avatars built around irl measurements

Ideally where there is any special logic, that overrides player movement to the avatar, perhaps it would benefit from a toggle

Anyway, I'm going to try and make a video sometime this week showcasing the issues around the neck IK with lock both mode

[prisma meadow]

frankly what would be good is a tutorial on how to properly fit avatars

[knotty acorn]

even if a tutorial like that existed, most users won't pay attention to them or won't actually be able to make use of them, because a sizeable percentage of vrchat don't make their own avatars 🤷

(also - there's plenty of tutorials to help with fitting avatars! Kung's FBT fixes video covers proportions!)

[timber grove]

I used Kung’s FBT video like the Bible for my avatar related work in Blender.

[maiden rock]

Doesn't cover chest tracking proportions and spine ik considerations between chest upper chest neck and head

We're still guessing how it works and making fine adjustments until it looks good, rather than modeling towards any kind of logic

[knotty acorn]

Right, I forget chest tracking is a thing.

[maiden rock]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789601807600844811/1040394311424036934/chest_tracker_neck_action.mp4

had planned a longer video but its getting late, wanted to show the scaling and accuracy

probably do that tomorrow

in the meantime, an example of how the neckbone collapses into the upperchest, rather than bending at the head bone

[marsh elm]

yeah, the neck really needs to stop pushing the upper chest around

not how people work kung 😔

[timber grove]

What do you mean? Kung is an alien so he functions differently than us human counterparts.

[marsh elm]

oh shit

[timber grove]

Also is there a canny post made about that?

[marsh elm]

what if ik2 is 100% accurate to kung's inner workings

[timber grove]

omg

good point

[marsh elm]

kung's a capital G gamer

[timber grove]

lmao

[prisma meadow]

seriously though. whats a fix for the neck doing that

[marsh elm]

place your gaming monitor higher up

stop slouching

[marsh elm]

i wonder if tilting the upper chest slightly forward would help combat bucking?

[maiden rock]

I just think the IK solving is whack

[marsh elm]

well, yes

i mean until kung figures spines out

[maiden rock]

thats what not using lock both is for

👀

[marsh elm]

something like this

[vestal oriole]

wierd spine <> chest

[marsh elm]

like was recommended for ik1

[maiden rock]

ironically it used to be like that

i straightened it in an effort to make it less janky

before it followed a more natural spine contour

[marsh elm]

did it buckle back then?

[maiden rock]

yes

[marsh elm]

worse?

[maiden rock]

no worse or better

[marsh elm]

hmm

i forgot, does ik2 strech the fuck out of the spine assembly in game?

or does it maintain the rest pose curvature?

[jade wyvern]

Thanks for making that, I've been trying to figure out how to fix this issue for the past few days. good to know that it affects even well-fitted avatars (iirc yours is), so I don't have to go looking for one myself.

Another issue I see is that even if you keep your neck perfectly still, the neck goes all wonky if you move your hips side-to-side

[maiden rock]

yeah I have another video showing it going weird whilst not really moving and its not trackers losing tracking

but I need to reshoot it

[marsh elm]

neck does whatever the fuck neck wants

neck would be prime meat for when bone compression becomes a thing

[maiden rock]

👀 one of the outtakes

[timber grove]

Ok I love this angle adjuster.

I'm simping so hard. It's so useful. Especially wrist angle adjuster

[marsh elm]

i wish we could change the hand position offset

now that we have wrist angle...

[maiden rock]

wrist adjustment was nice, I'm already using it myself

[timber grove]

Oh yeah!

[torpid heart]

hello. im currently having a problem where my chest's rotation is completely locked to my head. any help?

this is happening with all avatars

[marsh elm]

what is your headset?

[torpid heart]

i use a quest 2

actually i figured it out.

ugh i hate that i always solve problems moments after asking for help

[marsh elm]

let me guess, tracker on HMD?

😏

[torpid heart]

yup

[marsh elm]

ya, lower the calibration range, and space cal's continuous calibration has an option to hide the tracker from the game

but that shit never worked for me

[torpid heart]

works very well for me

[marsh elm]

i mean, it calibrates nicely

just doesnt hide from the game properly

the game keeps this shit on my face 😂

[torpid heart]

yes haha

i changed it to spheres

[raw wadi]

You are a templar!

[marsh elm]

\[T]/

[oak pendant]

[oak pendant]

bending at the head would misalign the* head, that's actually what "lock hip" mode does (unlocked head)

[oak pendant]

The neck goes crazy because there has to be relative breaking points when the bending of the bones become too extreme, in these poses it looks like serious "gamer-neck" but mostly physically plausible, during ik2 dev, having the most extreme bend at other joints along the spine looked more like "unsurvivable" poses

[oak pendant]

Spine compression would be best served around the belly area I think (would correspond to the "spine" bone (bone between hip and chest)

With an actual "lock-all" mode, without changing bone lengths, current behavior* is about as good as it can get (namely that stuff will always be able to break if you don't let the ends slide). Of course the solution is to allow changing of bone lengths. IK2 didn't do that because we were keeping it network compatible

[jovial shadow]

is spine compression some that would need to added to the avatar or just the ik and supported by already existing avatars?

[oak pendant]

It's not something you can really add (short of some advanced constraint contraptions which I don't recommend)

[jovial shadow]

and also can't imagine how you would weight paint a belly to be compressed a bit

[jovial shadow]

oh ok

[oak pendant]

A spine rework of IK2 with bone compression is very high up on my list. It's just stuck behind a stack of other features before I can get to it

[jovial shadow]

looking forward for further ik improvement

[oak pendant]

In the meantime this is probably the most concentrated chunk of info on the current status and what can be done if you want to use "lock-all" https://ask.vrchat.com/t/developer-update-5-august-2022/11836/35

[maiden rock]

so the fix is to find a better pivot point

and prevent the spine being compressed

[oak pendant]

I wouldn't call it "the fix" because there's also a small amount of real compression and extension between the vertebrae (not to mention so many more bones than the avatar has) in a real human, so even if you get the viewball pivot perfect there will still be some amount of real biological spine length change that's possible that the avatar can't follow along with

But adjusting the viewball z position could potentially improve stuff a bit if that part hasn't been dialed in yet

[maiden rock]

going to try some more Z placement

thanks

[oak pendant]

Good luck! I predict that if you find a z depth that alleviates the spine crunch enough to also counteract natural human spine compression and motion of the many vertebrae, that it would be too far forward to the point that it's less immersive because your avatar's head feels offset behind you a bit. So that's what it's not a fix/cure-all but worth a try for sure.

I'd be interested to hear about your results. They might be able to help others in the interim too.

I currently have two large-ish things on my work stack that are above a spine rework. I don't have a specific date for when I can get to it but hopefully that gives a sense for when

And then once I can get to it I expect it to take about as long as the polish pass on the arms did (for hand-near-shoulder issues etc)

By the way, you might notice that with shoulder tracking, hand-near-shoulder isn't optimal. There's an issue with a correction* that should only be applied with non-tracked shoulders happening there

[maiden rock]

I'll try it shortly, was waiting for NY to wake up so I could slack off work

[oak pendant]

Thanks! No pressure also. It probably won't be so long after that that I can get to the spine rework.

My two other tasks are things that I'd like to get done before the end of the year, but then we go on winter vacation, and then time after coming back is usually pretty busy, but after that is what I'm thinking for where it'd likely fit

[digital grove]

So how to avoid the hunchback neck

Or just wait for the update

[oak pendant]

But that's sounding too dangerously close* to a scheduled date, and I don't know what other high priority things might come up between then and now, so can't really say it like a set date

[twilit prism]

ATM its to slightly look down while calibrating in lock all

[oak pendant]

but trying to communicate as much as I can about when it would likely be

[narrow yew]

i have couple of friends whose bodies jerk around violently when they are laying down and only moving their head a little bit. is that this specific issue https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/network-jitter-with-ik ?

[oak pendant]

Yep, I'd like to immobilize when not using the joystick as well. Just needs careful handling with tweening when things do reorient after otherwise every time you walk it'll look crazy at the start

[maiden rock]

appreciate it's impossible to give dates, nice to get an idea of your current priorities though, and what we can do as creators to ready ourselves