udon-networking

[fiery grove]

For sync purposes, is it worth using shorts or bytes if possible or can I just use ints for everything regardless of the size?

Does an int always take more space than a short, regardless of value?

[serene yacht]

programming-wise, ints are usually 32 bits long, and it does not resize dynamically, it takes up that much space regardless of value stored
shorts or bytes would take up less space than an integer, but in turn have a smaller range of values

[lone zealot]

In .NET "int" is just a shorthand for System.Int32 which is indeed always 32 bits i.e. 4 bytes.

[nocturne phoenix]

I have a udon project built around having 1 unsynced udon script on each client that reads the local player's inputs and applies changes to them, then goes through and checks every player's information and applies effects to match. Basicly All the syncing should be done through the players themselves.
My problem is this script seems to do nothing if its Synchronization Method is set to None. Am I missing something basic here?

[frozen igloo]

Sync mode none is currently broken on live. It's fixed in the beta

[nocturne phoenix]

Oh that sounds hopeful. So is the logic sound? Having a local script that reads inputs can changes player velocity for example, then locally applies effects on each player based on their velocity

[frozen igloo]

yes, as long as you're only planning to do anything to the local player

[nocturne phoenix]

Oh i was hoping vrchat did something to sync the player data. So things like player velocity when changed locally would later get shared and synced up with the other clients

[frozen igloo]

if player A says "I want player B to move" then no, you can't just do playerapiB.setvelocity

you'll have to sync a variable or send a network event, which would in turn be received by player B and they would interpret it by setting their velocity

[nocturne phoenix]

Yeah that's what I was trying to figure out thanks

[flint cedar]

So I "think" im taking the right approach here so I want to be sure.

With simple things like switches that trigger behaviour that requires syncing, that's not something you need to constantly switch ownership for right? I assume that would just add networking delay for no benefit even though the if the owner doesn't trigger it there might be a delay for the user who did trigger it to see the action take effect

[frozen igloo]

eh, it's up to you

if it's manual, then taking ownership, setting the variable, and requesting serialization shouldn't have much delay

On the contrary, if you don't transfer ownership, that means you would have to use network events. Network events have a higher latency than manual sync so it might actually be longer for everyone with that method

[flint cedar]

I was gonna say, having a non-owner make a Network Event request to the owner to have the variable change takes nearly a second for that entire process

So I assume ownership transfers are actually quicker?

Seems weird and convoluted

[frozen igloo]

if it's manual, yes

manual sync is very high priority

[flint cedar]

Yeah, the variable in question is manual

Thanks as always, ill try adding an ownership transfer and see how that goes

[crisp bone]

Question on networking logic here, if I have multiple instances of a card game going, I am wondering if somebody were to click "reset" button on two or more games, they'll become the owner of both game's parent object with my game controller logic.

If they hit reset, a local(non-network) event will fire to reset the game because I only found TMPro to do so OnClick().
Could this potentially affect both game instances since they're both owned by the same client? How could I isolate them if I can't provide some sort of GameID or parameter in the event?

Here is what my method looks like, and is called by a local event from TMPro.

[supple cradle]

when using manual sync, OnDeserialization is called for the new joined player and a random player already in room?

[azure crane]

when a late joiner enters the game, the OnDeserialization will fire for every game object with the latest data for them

to learn more about udon networking: https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/udon-networking

[supple cradle]

yes, and a random player already in room!

i mean, anyone else have this problem? maybe it's a bug.

[azure crane]

how many players are we talking about?

[supple cradle]

player ABC are in room, when player D joined, OnDeserialization is called on D, and one of ABC

[azure crane]

you can use the Interact event node instead and make a button, it will allow you to target a card game instance based on the game ID you will set via a variable

[supple cradle]

okay, OnDeserialization is fired for both the later joiners and the non-owners already in room.

[azure crane]

it may be caused by another user that updates some udon behaviour and then requests when a player joins

[fiery grove]

Requesting serialization only updates the udon behaviour that requests it tho, right?

[azure crane]

it will sync the synced variables on the behaviour you call it, yes, if you marked the sync method to be manual

[fiery grove]

Makes sense

[obtuse echo]

@azure crane @fiery grove correct me if I'm wrong, but that method request the serialization of all other clients. Only the owner can call it and it notifies everyone else to get the right value, right?

[azure crane]

the method can only be used by the game object's owner.
the other players will then receive the updated synced variables, they will also trigger the OnDeserialization event, if implemented

[obtuse echo]

Thanks, looks like my understanding is correct then. Maybe I misread the question.

[flint cedar]

What is the best way to create a script that only the first user to create/enter an instance executes?

Spawn didn't work for me and Start seems to execute before networking states are established which prevents me from checking instance ownership for late joiners in order to stop unwanted script execution

...nevermind! Seems like just checking for object ownership instead of instance ownership worked.

[wooden sentinel]

Maybe like combination of OnPlayerJoined + isMaster could be?

[fiery grove]

Yeah but master changes when the old one leaves and it would fire when new people join

There's a is network ready event I believe, but I'm not sure what it does

Either way just checking for master once should be enough

But you need to consider what happens to late joiners as well

[lone zealot]

The network ready event is pretty much a relic of the trigger stuff I think. At least it was explained to me that Udon starts, only after the network has readied

[frozen igloo]

start is effectively onnetworkready. It's an internal function. But "ready" just means connected to the network, so in udon you won't have received all sync until a bit later

[honest lance]

if you use OnPlayerJoined, and check whether or not the joining player is master, it should fire at most once.
because when the original master leaves, another player who is present becomes master.
thus, a joining player may only be instance master if there were no players in the instance before they joined [in which case the instance is new, as there is nobody to recieve sync from anyways]

[fiery grove]

I see

[honest lance]

granted, this is what should be the case. if for some reason OnPlayerJoined is fired locally before the local player knows they're not master, this method won't work. so better test

[strange token]

Do we know if they plan to add syncing to any of the new types they're exposing to Udon in the current Open Beta?

[jaunty ice]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-udon-closed-alpha-feedback/p/whitelist-vector2int-and-vector3int :P

[fierce thunder]

Is there any issue with Udon's networking currently? My object assigner that I made won't sync objects to the players it's assigned to currently. Even tried uploading the default test version of the World Jam one and nothing follows the players in world.

[azure crane]

there are no known big syncing issues, except for sync mode None being broken on the live client

can you elaborate your situation with some details?

[fierce thunder]

I'm using the object pooling to assign a simple sphere to players currently. The spheres and such however do not sync to the players position. At first I thought I messed something up but not even the example version in the World Jam works.

[azure crane]

how are you syncing their positions? have you added the object sync component?

[fierce thunder]

Oh does it need an object sync now? Before it didn't. I can try that though.

[azure crane]

object pools only sync whether an object is enabled, nothing else

[fierce thunder]

Huh. Well damn. That resolved my issue. Thank you very much. LOL. I had been spending like, 5 hours trying to figure out what I messed up on. The example version didn't have an object sync either since it wasn't suppose to be a pickup. Thank you for that. Thank you very much.

[azure crane]

glad it worked!

[drifting flame]

I'm like day 2 learning udon and vrc networking and such. I could use some code review on a pretty simple vending glow stick vending machine. Here is the udonbehavior I have attached to each of the buttons on the machine:

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;
using VRC.SDK3.Components;

public class glowstickbutton : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    public VRCObjectPool pool;

    public Transform spawnPos;

    public override void Interact()
    {
        Networking.SetOwner(Networking.LocalPlayer, pool.gameObject);

        var stick = pool.TryToSpawn();

        if (stick == null)
        {
            return;
        }

        Networking.SetOwner(Networking.LocalPlayer, stick);
        stick.gameObject.transform.SetPositionAndRotation(spawnPos.position, spawnPos.rotation);
    }
}

This works fine for one player for sure. But I have a suspicion that this is subject to races with SetOwner and whatnot when multiple people are mashing the buttons at the same time. Would it be smarter to send an event to the master and have the master spawn glowsticks on behalf of the button presser?

[crisp bone]

You can or you can deny requests until the local behavior finishes its routines

[drifting flame]

I guess master method requires less moving parts because I would have to have an additional udonbehavior on the object pool that is aware of the state of all the local routines and receives the ownership transfer requests, right?

[crisp bone]

I think the owner of the object pool is the owner of the objects starting off. You could transfer the ownership of objects but the owner of the pool can always take it back with the return method.

@drifting flame

It is unknown if it'll be subject to onownership request though if you want to deny it. Would be an interesting test

[drifting flame]

@crisp bone do you know if Networking.SetOwner blocks until the ownership requests are resolved? Debating whether I can just

        if (!player.IsOwner(gameObject))
        {
            Networking.SetOwner(player, gameObject);
        }
        if (!player.IsOwner(gameObject))
        {
            return;
        }

[abstract cedar]

how do we get networked toggles to work cross platform?

right now, only quest useres can effect toggles for quest users and vice versa for PC

[languid snow]

youre hierarchies mights be different between the platforms

[obtuse echo]

I have been wondering this myself, hope someone has an answer. My intuition tells me it blocks, so you first script might be fine. I've seen examples of people doing set owner right before syncing manual vars too. I personally just let the master handle most things, because it was easier to reason about what's going on when I started out.

[flint cedar]

SetOwner doesn't block AFAIK, it assumes it will be successful until it gets a response back. When a non-owner changes variables of a script you can simply change ownership and immediately set the variable (with continuous sync however there might be a little more delay, havent tried)

[frozen igloo]

"Blocking" is a very specific term related to multithreading. Udon is not multithreaded so everything will execute instantly.

[flint cedar]

Good point

[drifting flame]

No multithreading is a good callout. I was sorta assuming there would be some asynchronous i/o going on with the network calls and what not. And that’s where the question came from. Thanks for the info!

[azure crane]

no, blocking is not specific to multithreading but can be used in. when I/O is involved and you wait for networking, you can block on a single thread too

[frozen igloo]

I mean, yeah, you can block the main thread but uhh that's not a good idea

[azure crane]

depends on the application, in udon, you would choose death

but for normal cmd programs waiting for user input or network replies, it's very fine

[frozen igloo]

If you are creating an application which is doing nothing else, then sure. But unity has to render frames

even then, it's still not a good practice to block main thread on an application that is doing nothing because windows will consider it unresponsive and prompt the user to close or wait

[white chasm]

Technically speaking Udon supports running code on the DSP thread with OnAudioFilterRead. This is executed separately from main thread but it’s a bit tricky to get it working correctly. I don’t recommend using it other than audio processing though, because blocking this thread will block audio you hear

[obtuse echo]

That's interesting. What happens when the response denies? So we use a pool, we SetOwner to us and immediately TryToSpawn. Will it queue up the spawn until the it gets a response and then decides whether to use it or not?

Maybe a bit off topic, but can you find the source code for that in the vrchat application?

[civic haven]

is anyone going to make a vrchat wii sports swordfighting

[lone zealot]

Anything Realtime-PvP is kind of meh, due to the high latency in VRChat.
Its gotten slightly better with regions and having manual sync which has higher priority, but I think its still around 200ms on average which is quite a lot.

[sharp solstice]

If we had access to the latency / connection quality to a player, we could doing... something similar to rollback netcode, maybe? game would have to be designed around it.

[abstract cedar]

it was a duplicated scene

[grizzled lake]

Hello

[mental mountain]

even though your ping is below 10ms, still you got netIK delay which is at least 500ms I’ve tested before..

[steel igloo]

It is pretty cray. This was a test I did to test sending a keypress from my laptop in my VRC instance, to a server on the other side of the USA, then create a video frame with data that changes something visually, then I hear the keypress. It really is as bad as you are noticing, @mental mountain

(This tests the difference between ping and IK, and I'm not cheating with ping)

BTW - Udon to Photon server is also usually much much faster than IK/audio sync too, though I haven't done detailed profiling wit hit.

[mental mountain]

When I tested of sync problem making some mmd world, ping 50ms, udon sync was 130ms < send custom network event was 550ms == netIK==voice(as i know they work together) < continuous sync 700ms.

[languid snow]

is using LateUpdate instead of FixedUpdate a good idea for sending custom network events more accurrately?

[frozen igloo]

That really won't change anything

[languid snow]

ok

[stoic fog]

Is there a way to network an animator? I made these elevators and I got them working pretty good. The udon graphs that fire off the triggers are networked but everything in the state machine is not networked. I'm still pretty green at this. I thought about just object syncing the individual elements but it feels like that would collide with the animator. If there's a good resource i'd love to read up

[obtuse echo]

I know when making avatars, there are some extra scripts to sync things, but I don't think that's necessary when making worlds.
In udon, you could use SendCustomNetworkEvent to call an event called "StartElevator" where you use SetTrigger on the Animator.

This way, all clients will execute "StartElevator" and trigger the animation.

[stoic fog]

ok. I found it strange because for my automatic doors, I'm just using sendcustomevent and its synced for everybody.

I think what im going to do is condense all my animations in to a single up or down animation and use any state transistions with udon scripts calling that and see what happens. When I realize how these elevators work, there only needs to be two animations in total to do everything

[obtuse echo]

Animators aren't synced, everyone has their own instance of it. So your door must be using something other than animators to do that.

[stoic fog]

ok thats what i figured. I'm gonna try this method since it directly calls one animation via the animator and see what happens

Is there a way to buffer an event like on SDK2 so that new players will see the current state?

I'm guessing I need to set a variable that fires off on entry

[strange token]

I just wanna say I absolutely love udon's networking, it's so easy to set up really good networking!

[frozen igloo]

jeeze, you're making me nervous. I legit can't tell if that's sarcasm or not

I guess ever since the udon network update that's significantly less likely to be sarcasm, but still 😁

[mental mountain]

Animator can be synced by network I saw my friend implemented it, I’m not sure but you can control parameters inside animator layer by udon sharp, so maybe you can use this?

[rugged marsh]

If it's just a simple looping animation or triggering states what I've been doing is putting an event keyframe at the end of the animation that does a SendCustomEvent (String) to call a method which then (for owner only) updates the animator for everyone via network event.

So it's synced to the owner to either rebind and restart the loop or switch everyone to the same state.

[lean silo]

kinda new to networking, trying to figure out the best way I can grab a players name who interacts with a object and put it in a text for all the other players? The closest I have gotten is it the main person can see it but it is blank for others

[stoic fog]

So what I tried didn't work. This was the next thing I was planning on doing. If I use SendCustomEvent (String) will it call a defined udon event?

[rugged marsh]

Yes you would set that string as the name of the method in the udon script assuming you're using UdonSharp.

And then in that method you would check for owner and call the update/sync method as a custom network event to all.

[stoic fog]

I'm using graphs

im too unedumacated for c# as of now

[rugged marsh]

I assume it can still be done with graph I'm just not very familiar with that myself. I recall there being a node for custom network events, you might be able to have the animation event keyframe call that directly.

[stoic fog]

its easy to define customs in graph. I just need to test to make sure it works

[jade mesa]

I'm not sure how it looks like in graphs, just U#. You'll have two objects: one button and one display.
1. The button has an Interact(...) event listener that calls a function on the display (e.g. ChangeDisplay(...)) and passes the VRCPlayerApi.
2. That function on the display needs to call Networking.SetOwner(...) so that the display is owned by the player who pressed the button. When synchronizing, data flows from the owner to other people.
3. After that you need prepare your synchronized variables: I'd suggest using the int type via VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerId(...) and not a string since that is lighter on data.
3b. Alternatively you can put the code that prepares the synced variables in the event OnPreSerialization() which gets called on RequestSerialization() before sending data over the network.
4. After setting your synced variable(s), you want to call RequestSerialization() to send this data over the network.
5. This will trigger the OnDeserialization() event on all other players in the world which you can use convert the player id back to a string and display it.

X. Put the behaviour sync mode to manual and use the non-interpolated [UdonSynced]

At least that's how I would do it, not sure if it's the way of doing it 🤷‍♀️

[thorny kindle]

you can use OnOwnershipTransferred(VRCPlayerApi player) and by Interact() - fire event to take ownership of the text panel, to make it easier. and then you can change .text of text panel to player's .displayName

[real fractal]

Why can remote players trigger a network event that has no network event call in the world? There is no sanity check for that?

[frozen igloo]

If you specifically don't want an event to be callable by a network event, you can add an underscore to the beginning

[lean silo]

So does OnOwnershipTransferred run for the last owner or current?

[thorny kindle]

i think, for everyone? you can test, if you have an alter account and GotoUdon to run "local" test with multiple accs, but need to manualy fix some errors due to updated sdk

[lean silo]

the only page I could find about it said this

so I was kinda confused

[lean silo]

So does ownership transfer happen when setOwner is run?

[thorny kindle]

dont know much, i think that will fire after setowner called and new owner applied

[honest lance]

ownership transfer happens sometime after setowner is called and the old owner hasn't rejected the ownership transfer

[lean silo]

how would a reject happen?

[thorny kindle]

https://github.com/MerlinVR/UdonSharp/wiki/events#udon-events

[lean silo]

basically doing a onInteract that set's that person as the new owner of text

ah ok cool

[thorny kindle]

yup, and if ownershiptransfered fire for everyone (i think), it returns new owner vrcplayerapi where you can grap displayName from

[lean silo]

oh ok wait

so if I do set owner should I set the owner to the current object (gameObject) or the text object?

I have it set currently to set it as the text object

[honest lance]

it should be on the object you want to transfer ownership of

[thorny kindle]

whatever you want, but that object should have udonbehaviour with ownrtransfrd

[honest lance]

and ownership is only relevant to synced objects (a.k.a objects with udon behaviour or an objectsync component)

[lean silo]

like if I wanted to sync the text, it would be the text object

so I should add object sync to the text then

[thorny kindle]

you can have empty with udonbehav, with reference to text component on another object, etc
and assign owner to that empty
or on object with text udonvehav

[honest lance]

objectsync just syncs the position, rotation and scale

[lean silo]

gotcha empty udonbehav

so if I do on interact SetOwner of local player to the text object like this

and I reference the text object in script which is RacerName

and the text have this

gotchaaa

[honest lance]

no

[lean silo]

no?

[honest lance]

what you want is to do setOwner on the udonbehaviour itself. and that udonbehaviour then does on ownership transfer: set text to displayname of new owner

[lean silo]

gotcha so this and then when the ownership is transferred I just set the text got it ty!

[honest lance]

yep. because the text panel cares not who owns it. it just displays a preset text to whoever looks at it

[lean silo]

so then out of curiosity

when doing player.displayerName; that just deals with the new owner right?

[honest lance]

on ownership transferred does not pass you the new owner. but since it fires after ownership was transferred, you can just getOwner on the gameobject the udon behaviour is on to get the VRCPlayerApi of the new owner

[lean silo]

guessing since it's player api it's just

[honest lance]

should be

[thorny kindle]

another way if i wrote everything right ```CSharp
public string PlayerNameProperty
{
get => playerName;
set
{
playerName = value;
ChangeText();
}
}

[UdonSynced] [FieldChangeCallback(nameof(PlayerNameProperty))] public string playerName;

public Text UIText;

public void SetOwner()
{
Networking.SetOwner(Networking.LocalPlayer, gameObject);
playerName = Networking.LocalPlayer.displayName;
RequestSerialization();
}

private void ChangeText() => UIText.text = PlayerNameProperty;

should be `[UdonBehaviourSyncMode(BehaviourSyncMode.Manual)]` and on ui button you call SetOwner function ![vrcCatThink](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/784264661410381835.webp?size=128 "vrcCatThink")

[lean silo]

so this should work no?

it doesn't run on ownership transferred for myself? not sure about others

do I have to do a delay or do the variable change locally?

[north mountain]

well depents on what you want to happen, i assume this is a manual sync udon behaviour

[lean silo]

yeah it is

well basically I want to make it so someone clicks on it, it grabs their name and sets the name to a text

[north mountain]

so OnOwnershipTransfered, is a bit of a weird event, i think it only fires for a certain people not everyone

[lean silo]

it works fine if I move the

Namestring = Networking.GetOwner(gameObject).displayName;
Nametext.text = Namestring;

into OnInteract

but wasn't working for me when it was under OnOwnershipTransfered

[north mountain]

Also if you are already the owner of the object because you loaded into the world first, i dont think OnOwnershipTransfered triggers

[lean silo]

ohhh darn

how could I make it work for me then if that were to happen?

besides getting someone else to click it first then I click it again

I mean I could do like check if they are owner already and if they are run what's inside OnOwnershipTransferred right?

[north mountain]

I think if you do GetOwner inside OnOwnershipTransfered you probly get the same player as the in the playerapi paramater as its already transafered

but not 100% sure on that i rare work with OnOwnershipTransfered events myzelf

[lean silo]

wouldn't this fix it?

the else if I added

[north mountain]

what i would recommend it is adding synched variable of type string, like currentOwner
then in OnInteract(),

if your not the owner, claim it and set currentOwner = Networking.localPlayer.ToString() then request serialisation and then directly call OnDeserialisation()

Then implement OnDeserialisation() like set Nametext.Text = currentOwner

[north mountain]

well that way it wont properly sync, you got to call requestSerialisation() after you change the variable

if in your example NameString is a sycnhed udon variable, then you need to call RequestSerialisation() after you change it, and you change it after you claimed ownership

[lean silo]

ah so I should also call it after

here

[north mountain]

i think you should move away from the OnOwnershipTransfered

RequestSerialisation only works if you are the owner (or if you ran SetOwner to Networking.LocalPlayer)

[lean silo]

so like in this pic for example

I could put it with the if networking.isOwner

bc it changes it and it's the owner

[north mountain]

yes i think so

[lean silo]

and then for On Deserialization

[north mountain]

So OnDeserialisaiton() get called when a synched variable was send to other clients
So thats where you use the value of the synched variable and assign it where you want it, so in your case
Nametext.text = Namestring (assuming Namestring is a synched variabe)

[lean silo]

yep it is cool so I got that already

also

would the OnOwnershipTransferred have a issue if I don't use request serialisation?

bc for example

actually

nvm

[jade mesa]

@lean silo here is how I would do it, syntax might not be 100% since I wrote it in a notepad lol

public class ChangeTextViaSync : ... {

    // The currently displayed playerId
    [UdonSynced]
    public int playerId;

    public string textFormat = "My name is {0}";

    public void ChangeText() {
        var me = Networking.LocalPlayer;
        if (playerId == me.playerId) {
            // No need to sync playerId since it's already set to us.
            return;
        }

        // Change owner to self
        Networking.SetOwner(me, gameObject);
        
        // Set data and sync
        playerId = me.playerId;
        RequestSerialization();

        // Update text for new owner
        UpdateText();
    }

    public override void OnDeserialisation() {
        // Update text for late joiners and when ChangeText() is called.
        UpdateText();
    }

    private void UpdateText() {
        var player = VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerById(playerId);
        if (!Utilities.IsValid(player)) {
            // Handle unknown player
            return;
        }

        var text = String.Format(textFormat, player.displayName);
        // Do things with text here, like setting an UI.
    }
}

[slender kettle]

notepad, the ide of champions

personally i use google docs, but hey, notepad works if you have no connection

[strange token]

I feel like you could write better in discord itself because you can get syntax highlighting

[mortal sundial]

Hey if someone can help point me in the correct direction/methods I need to use for this networking issue. I have candles and a candalabra. All the gameobjects have a VRC Object Sync component. So all players can move them. The canadalabra has a hitbox trigger on each candlestick, and if a user lets go of a candle in the candle stick, the candle teleports to the correct location and becomes a child of the candalabra (inserting the candle into the slot).

In single player it worked great. When the world went live, it had networking issues wherein the new players didn't have the candle childed.

Is there an event/method in Udon that would allow me to pass a transform to all players to specify it as a gameobject's parent? I'm building this with U# if that makes any difference. Thanks a lot for any advice!

[wild ore]

that doesnt sound good because network is dependent on the scene hierachy. By parenting the transformation you are changing the network hierachy, causing desyncs

it might be better to just not change the parenting and do the transformation manually

[mortal sundial]

You mean just update the position + rotation every frame without childing the object?

[wild ore]

yeah

but im not an expert on networking so I can't say if its possible to do parenting. But in VRChat you get desyncs if you upload a world with different hierarchy from the previous version.

a world stays in sync with it's previous version as long as it has the same scene hierarchy, so preserving the hierarchy is super important.

[mortal sundial]

Hmm

So that leads me to my other question, in Udon is it possible to pass parameters to networking events?

[wild ore]

you are not using udonsharp arent you?

[mortal sundial]

I am.

If I want the candle attached to a particular candlestick, I want to be able to specify that candlestick's transform in an event to inform all players it's attached.

Unless there's a better method of doing that.

[wild ore]

from what I feel, i think it is necessary to assign each candle an ID, and during the attaching, pass the ID to everyone

[mortal sundial]

I can do that.

Udon events allow passing an ID?

This is my first VRC map, so while I have a lot of fullstack developer experience, I don't know what can/can't be done with VRC.

[wild ore]

that doesnt seem possible, but i can expect you can add a "int ParentID" and initialize it to -1 when there's no parent

and when its parented, change that ParentID and call RequestSerialization

so in the FixedUpdate loop, if the ParentID is not -1, change the transformation.

[mortal sundial]

Mmm yeah that'd work.

[wild ore]

yeah sadly i feel this is the only way to do it since networking is dependent on hierachy

[mortal sundial]

I'll download the udon networking package to see what samples they provide.

[wild ore]

1. Have a UdonSynced int ParentID, initialized to -1. Use Manual Sync for the fastest update.
2. When a player move the candle, set the candle's owner to that player.
3. When that player attaches to a slot, change ParentID to that slot and call RequestSerialization() to sync variables. This causes all other players' candle's ParentID to get synced.
4. Update the transformation in the update loop based on the ParentID.

if this helps, this is pretty much what you need to do to get this to work!

[mortal sundial]

That is exactly what I needed to hear! 😄

[rocky spindle]

Could also do an area trigger over the candelabra holder areas, and when detecting on drop of a candle, toggle off the pickup and toggle on a stationary one already fitted to that slot ?

[mortal sundial]

I considered that! I also want players to be able to then remove/move the candles from the slot afterwards and I figured that's where it would start getting buggy.

[wild ore]

(ops actually i think you'll need continuous sync since there's also position syncing)

[mortal sundial]

I may be able to do a hybrid of your two methods, keeping the candles synchronized using k0sm0s' method but showing/hiding the visuals using Fooma's.

That would mean when a player is wooshing the candalabra around, the non-interactable candles would move with it flawlessly while there will still be a real invisible one tracked underneath it the player can interact with.

Ok now I'm excited for work to be done with so I can try all this...

[rocky spindle]

https://buildsoft.booth.pm/items/3159749 check out this grid snap system, it sounds a lot like what you want to do

[mortal sundial]

Ooh that might save me some trouble. I hope the grid itself can be attached to a pickup.

[azure crane]

you could have invisible candles already in place and enable them based on a synced array
one index/element for each candle
getting close to the slot will then snap

[dusk marlin]

Dipping my pinkie into some territory I thought I had mastered before, but am having strange issues so here I am. xD

I'm trying to figure out what the best method is for detecting on a specific udon script that it's owner has left the world. OnOwnershipTransferred was how I thought it worked, but I'm having some strange issues with it.

[celest mesa]

Can I send a serialization request to another Udon script from one that is set to a Sync Method of None and have it go out to all players? (Ie; push button, tell other script it needs to sync for all players) Or does it need at least Manual sync so the serialization request goes out to all players rather than just the local?

[lone zealot]

The serialization "request" is not a networked request. It simply sets a flag for the underlying networking manager to know when to serialize the data and send it to other players. So to answer your question: Yes you can.

[celest mesa]

Cool, I thought it'd work something like that but just wanted to make sure.

[marble night]

[UdonSynced] [SerializeField] int PlayerID; //not syncing?
why does this return different values on my two clients?

 public override void Interact()
    {
        PlayerID = Networking.LocalPlayer.playerId;
//        Hair.SetActive(false);
//        LocalHair.SetActive(true);
        SendCustomNetworkEvent(VRC.Udon.Common.Interfaces.NetworkEventTarget.All, "SetTransformVars");

    }

    public void SetTransformVars()
    {
        Debug.LogError(PlayerID);
        Player = VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerById(PlayerID);
        Go = true;
//    }

    void Update()
//    {
//        if (Go == true)
//        {
//            Hips.position = //Player.GetBonePosition(HumanBodyBones.Hips);

[azure crane]

is this manual sync?

[marble night]

no

continuous

[azure crane]

i really would just switch it over to manual sync and do that

[marble night]

if i set it to manual, i have to do RequestSerialization(); before the debug line?

[azure crane]

your code is a bit of a mystery to me
with manual sync, you need to be owner of the behaviour you want to sync, then request, and you can do everything inside OnDeserilization instead of a custom networked event

right now, you won't even know if continuous will sync before the event arrives

[marble night]

indeed

oh that kinda makes sense

il have a do 😛 cheers

[azure crane]

good luck

[marble night]

perfect, got it working first try, not something i say aften lol

using UdonSharp;
using UnityEngine;
using VRC.SDKBase;
using VRC.Udon;

public class TakeOver : UdonSharpBehaviour
{
    
    [SerializeField] Transform Hips;
    [SerializeField] bool Go;
    [UdonSynced] [SerializeField] int PlayerID;
    [SerializeField] VRCPlayerApi Player;

    public override void Interact() //interact with object
    {
        Networking.SetOwner(Networking.LocalPlayer, this.gameObject);
        PlayerID = Networking.LocalPlayer.playerId; //get player ID who selected button
        RequestSerialization();
        Player = Networking.LocalPlayer; //get player who selected button FOR LOCAL PLAYER
        Go = true; //start update loop FOR LOCAL PLAYER
    }

    public override void OnDeserialization()
    {
        Debug.LogError(PlayerID);
        Player = VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerById(PlayerID); //get player who selected button FOR ALL PLAYERS (except local?)
        Go = true; //start update loop FOR ALL PLAYERS (except local?)
    }

    void Update()
    {
        if (Go == true)
        {
            Hips.position = Player.GetBonePosition(HumanBodyBones.Hips); //set position of object every update tick
        }
    }

}
``` here the code if your intrested at all lol

[mossy ruin]

just wondering, if you try to claim ownership of an object under heavy network stress, will it evently transfer or is there a chance the attempt will fail?

[frozen igloo]

it will eventually transfer

if only one player is trying to take it you can be pretty confident that it'll go through even under the heaviest situation. But if multiple people try to take it, there's no guarantee what order things will happen so they may get mixed up

it should still eventually stabilize but hard to say what variables will get through to other players

[mossy ruin]

ok thats good to know, i didnt know if i had to do a retry or not

[frozen igloo]

it's pretty safe to assume that given enough time to deal with latency, everyone will agree on who the owner is

but it is not safe to assume that messages arrive in the correct order

so it can be good to retry synced variables

[warped ore]

I need help with teleportation. I'm trying to teleport users to a specified location with whitelist. IS anything wrong in this code

Hefner is the gameobject, Players is the array with whitelisted players that are allowed to use the teleport function and selectedPlayer is a VRCPlayerApi of the player that should be teleported

[azure crane]

you cannot teleport remote players, that means, only a local player can teleport itself

[warped ore]

but how does worlds do it with private rooms. I've been to private rooms where if you click a player in the player list they get teleported to the private room

[obtuse echo]

Instead of directly teleporting someone, you can tell the selected player "hey, teleport here".

So you would send that message to the client, who then teleports itself locally.

[warped ore]

Can you guide me in the right direction on how to implement that in code? I'm not really sure how I send that msg

[warped ore]

I've got this right now, am I doing something wrong?

I can teleport myself but I can not teleport other players

[strange oriole]

so you want to teleport a specific player, but only if they are on a whitelist ?

or you only want to teleport a selected player if the person initiating the teleport is on a whitelist ?

[warped ore]

I want to teleport a specific player but only a whitelisted player can use the teleport function

second one you wrote

[strange oriole]

how is selected player set ?

[warped ore]

selectedPlayer is an playerAPI that gets set from a playerlist

[strange oriole]

you need to sync which player should be teleported

(sync the playerid )

[mossy ruin]

got another question, on the OnPlayerLeft event, the player returned, is it possible checking its display name could result in an error? I have an instance which im trying to narrow down where the code crashed during when a player left it broke on VRCSDKBaseVRCPlayerApi.__get_displayName__SystemString, and im curious if that could be a breaking point

[warped ore]

sync the playerid, hmmm. Alright. I'll google some to see how I do that

[strange oriole]

[UdonSynced]
public int _playerIdToTeleport = -1;

override void OnDeserialization(){
if(Networking:Localplayer.playerId == _playerIdToTeleport)  
     _Teleport();
}

oh also, i am not sure, but i think if you put an underscore in front of your method it cant be called over the network

[warped ore]

ooooooooooh

[mossy ruin]

so looking at my debugger, i can say for a fact it broke calling player.displayName from the OnPlayerLeft(VRCPlayerApi player) event, im wondering if this is a bug

[warped ore]

@strange oriole thank you for all the help but it still doesn't work 😦 Feelsbad

[warped ore]

I still can only teleport myself

public override void OnDeserialization()
    {

        if (Networking.LocalPlayer.playerId == playerIdToTeleport)
        {
            Teleport();
        }
    }



public void Teleport()
    {
            foreach (string _str in Players)
            {
                if (Networking.LocalPlayer.displayName == _str)
                {
                    playerIdToTeleport = selectedPlayer.playerId;
                    SendCustomNetworkEvent(VRC.Udon.Common.Interfaces.NetworkEventTarget.All, "Teleportation");                        
                }
            }
}

public void Teleportation()
    {
        if(Networking.LocalPlayer.playerId == playerIdToTeleport) {
            Networking.LocalPlayer.TeleportTo(Hefner.transform.position, Hefner.transform.rotation);
        }
    }

That's what I got. I can still only teleport myself :/

[mossy ruin]

not sure if it helps your conversation, but what i've come to find is you can only really teleport yourself. So you have to set up who needs to teleport, tell them to teleport, then locally to them call the teleport method on themselves

[warped ore]

I'm pretty sure that's what I'm doing with that code

I send an event to the entire lobby and if their playerid matches the one I want to teleport it calls: Networking.LocalPlayer.TeleportTo(Hefner.transform.position, Hefner.transform.rotation);

[obtuse echo]

Have you looked up how OnDeserialization works when you have manual sync on an Udon object? You don't want to send an event anymore, only the playerid. Then request the serialization so everybody receives the new value. When you receive the new value, only then do you actually execute the teleportation. That's how Thryrallo's code is supposed to be used.

[warped ore]

ngl, I'm super drunk rn but I'll save this. Thank you haha

[obtuse echo]

I noticed that to be the case as well. I don't remember how I dealt with it though, except switching up my approach.

[mossy ruin]

oh somthing else, never call teleport from on deserialize. Set up a timed event to call it after. Dunno what it is but if you call teleport during on desterilize it mucks up teleport

[mossy ruin]

right now the way im dealing with it is only treating that player as a memory reference and comparing it to a player list i create myself to verify if its the same object

although i dont know if it will work 100% of the time, as it might get a cass of null == null

[obtuse echo]

Yeah, that might be an issue. I used ownership to detect when a specific player joins or leaves. The owned objects holds data about the player, like my own identifier, which I can continue to use without it disappearing like in OnPlayerLeft.

No idea if there is a better way.

[mortal sundial]

Hey k0sm0s just wanna inform ya that I followed your advice here and it worked! My objects are now all fully synched properly. 🙂

[warped ore]

im hella drunk

[strange oriole]

In OnDeserialization call "Teleportation" not "Teleport". If you use manual sync, dont forget to call RequestDeserialization

[lone zealot]

Do not call TeleportTo from OnDeserialization. It messes it up. You need to defer Teleports to the next Update call.

[azure crane]

not really must be the next Update call, as mentioned before, sending a delayed event is fine and will teleport without needing Update, since Update can have an overhead

[lone zealot]

I said it should be deferred to the next update call. Doing "SendCustomEventDelayed" will simply call it during the Update phase.
I didnt say to put it into Update :P

[warped ore]

Thank you all for the help! I'll take a look at in a few and see if I can figure it out. Such a nice community in here tbh. Thank u thank uuuu 😄

[azure crane]

i just wanted to make sure nobody misunderstands it, it was not directed to you but to people who read Update and then try to do things that way

[lone zealot]

Yeah I wanted to include that originally but too lazy

[mortal sundial]

Hey I was just wondering if there's any tools to facilitate debugging network issues? Something that allows me to check who currently has ownership or the state of a variable on each client?

[warped ore]

So I changed my event to this but now the event is not fireing. Did I misunderstand something?

[azure crane]

is Teleportation a custom method/event? if so, please show us the code

if not, make a method and call it _Teleportation and perform your action in that (note the underscore prevents remote clients to send networked events to that method)

you can also use nameof() on udon methods to generate strings of them, prevents typos

[warped ore]

I'm pretty sure I must have it without _ or else I can not use it in

[azure crane]

you can, but you cannot do a networked custom event

[warped ore]

oh, alright

wait, so that event isn't networked? so I can't use that event to teleport somebody with (the delayed event)

[azure crane]

no, there is a different function with a networked word in the name
who is calling this? the remote player?

is this in Deserialization?

should add logs
check if the function is called
who is the user and what ids they have and need to have

[warped ore]

Okay so, a whitelisted user, can select players from a playerlist. When a player is selected it saves their playerid in a synced variable. Then it calls Teleport when the whitelisted user presses a teleport button

and teleport sends the event with Teleportation

I had the same code yesterday but used the networked event instead and I could only teleport myself. I could not teleport other users

[azure crane]

let the selection set the id,
the button requests serialisation,
users check in OnDeserialization if the id matches, then issue the delayed teleport

ensure the user clicking the button owns the gameobject with the udon behaviour or sets the ownership otherwise

[warped ore]

so basically all I have to do is add: RequestSerialization(); in my teleport function?

and move the send customevent to the desrializaiton

[strange oriole]

@warped ore

Teleports a player by name. I tested it and you don't seem to need to offset teleportation by a frame.

[warped ore]

Ehm, it teleports them into a wall

it works but, yeah 😂

[strange oriole]

it teleports them to _taretTransform

also I forgot to set owner

[warped ore]

nah

I teleport to a gameobject I have

I can teleport to the game object with my keypad

but when i teleport someone they fly into a wall

It's funny as hell but not really what I'm looking for hahaha

[strange oriole]

ah, that might be that issue Helper was talking about then

[warped ore]

Maybe this is why you need to delay it

[strange oriole]

try this then

[warped ore]

good thing I saved my teleportation method

yep, that works much better

Finally!

[warped ore]

Thank youuuuuu

[strange oriole]

👍

[warped ore]

I just had a weird bug that my friend that I teleported got teleported twice. It might've been cause someone else joined right after they were teleported. I'll have to do some testing on it

[strange oriole]

yes, this happens cause OnDeserialization get's called when a player joines

gimme a sec ill fix it

@warped ore here you go, a beautiful bit flag to fix it

[warped ore]

yeah, I thought that was the issue. Should the "lastTargetPlayerId = targetPlayerId" really be outside of the IF statement in the onDeserialization()

[strange oriole]

yes

[warped ore]

oooh, now I see

[strange oriole]

(it might actually be okay inside, but i havent tested that)

[warped ore]

I was just gonna put it inside and everytime it when inside the IF statment it just reset the playerid to -1 and use the check Utilities.IsValid(VRCPlayerApi.GetPlayerById(playerIdToTeleport))

[strange oriole]

yeah, i guess resetting it to -1 would work too. Would be a little more network usage, but negligible

[warped ore]

If using bitflags is better I'll just use the code u sent. I've never read about bitflags tho. Might read a bit about them now

[floral oasis]

Turn on GUI debug then right-shift tilde 8

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/debugging-udon-projects

[mortal sundial]

Oh damn cool I'll try that tonight. Also, I test my code using CyanEmu and I never succesfully connected a VisualStudio debugger to UdonSharp code. Is there a way to get that working or is that not feasible?

For now I'm managing using Debug.Log but if I can get a breakpoint working that'd be rad.

[floral oasis]

https://reposhub.com/dotnet/miscellaneous/mika-f-UdonRabbit-Analyzer.html

There is this but I haven’t really played with it yet …

[mortal sundial]

Ah girl you're amazing. Thank you so much! 😄

Another day at work just fantasizing about getting home and working on VRC stuff again~~~

[magic hornet]

Hewo, there is a way to get the player API (local) when you click on a button sending the "interact" event in udon ?

I Was trying to use "Get LocalPlayer" for edit the Voice Gain/Distance, but looks like the udon component crash when the event interact trigger the udon script

[frozen igloo]

Interact is always local, so you can safely assume and get local player. But setting the local player's voice settings won't do anything because voice settings are not synced. Instead, you need to sync variables or events in order to tell other people that they should set your voice

[magic hornet]

Hmm... Okay i see, i'll put some times on it so ^^"

[modern ocean]

I have some boulders that i want to be destructible if the player that enters their trigger at a certain speed
I want it to either be clientside so each player needs to break their own, or synced where the boulder breaks if anyone touches it, but right now it just desyncs and the boulder breaks for the first to hit it but noone else

[modern ocean]

So i've done some testing, and it seems that Onplayertriggerenter only triggers twice, then doesnt reset

[modern ocean]

text sets for one player, is ignored by the other
does setowner disable the script for local players entering a trigger?

[wild ore]

can you put a bigger screenshot of the entire udongraph?

[modern ocean]

it kindof works now
it just runs a network synced bool and im not bothering with clientside anymore

[wild ore]

ah good for you, but that screenshot's still tiny haha..

[mossy ruin]

so wanted to verify something. Does the owner of the object need to call RequestSerialization() on a manual object the same frame as the object changed? I saw there was a recommendation that you change the value in PreSerialization but ive been able to change a value and then request serialization with no issue, tho as of late im seeing a weird error when I RequestSerilization some frames later when the network isnt clogged:
ERROR: [Behaviour] Caught ArgumentNullException: Value cannot be null

[azure crane]

does not matter when you call it, all RequestSerialization does is requesting the network system to send the data to the remote players, you can request the serialisation and then still change values, they also may be sent, as the network sending does not happen instantly nor will it prevent changes

your error often refers to a method/function being used incorrectly, is that the full error?

[lone zealot]

It does not request anything. It sets a flag. The network handler has an internal timing for when it serialize the data. If the flag is not set it will simply skip serialization. So when you call RequestSerialization all it does, is set a flag to tell the network handle to serialize the data the next time it does. So yeah you can in fact change the value in-between calling it and the serialization actually happening.

[azure crane]

by setting the flag, the user is requesting the data to be serialised, you are pedantic here imo, i don't think we must explain every intrinsic to people new to networking, abstractions are helpful

[lone zealot]

Well the problem is that "request" especially, in the world of apis is usually an active act where data is being sent somewhere. While this is a request, it's a rather passive one. So the potential for confusion is quite high there.

[azure crane]

i agree with you

[mossy ruin]

ya i understood it sets a flag, which is why i was curious if i set the data a long time ago, then request searlization to flag the next time to serlize the data, if that old change doesnt get pulled. My suspesion is they have a way to check when data is changed to optimize how much data gets synced

[mossy ruin]

when i switched my code to requesting serliazation the same frame as when the data was changed, that error went away. I dont think it was that it requires the same frame for the data to be set, but i think the data it pulls has to be resently changed data

since the only way to use the method is call RequestSerlization()

also should add, by changing my code to request serlization within the same frame of the code change, all my code started working as intended

as a reminder, this wasnt an issue of changing the data after calling RequestSerialization, this was an issue of changing the data long before calling it

like potentially 0.6 seconds before

[frozen igloo]

requestserialization should send all data no matter what

when you changed the data a long time ago, are you sure you were even the owner?

[mossy ruin]

yes, i have a system where i have my own player list that keeps track of what i call player callers. Each player caller is assigned a player where they are set to own said caller. I also have a queue of commands in a string (local only) to each player, that on a timer ever 0.2 seconds checks if the network is not clogged, and if its not, it interprets the next line in the queue. These are all intended to be actions that effect the network, one of them being RequestSerilization. When i was doing changes to certain synced values, i was changing them, then adding to the queue a command which when it ran through the system called RequestSerialization. In essence, depending on how bogged the network was, could take anywhere from milliseconds (when the timer gets called) to seconds (if the networked is bogged down and the timer tried several times). When i changed it to instead of going through this queue to call RequestSerialization to just calling it the same frame, everything started to work and properlly sync the data. I will note this method i used use to work in the past,

unfortunatly, ive been changing the code over the week a lot to try and optimize features on it since i need it done by tomarrow, so its not in the same state as it was before. When i get the changes working ill try to set it up to the way it was before and see if it was a fluke where i missed somthing, or indeed a problem assosiated with the timing when to seralize

[mossy ruin]

oh also, wanted to ask, So if i set a value, requestSerailization, then call a networked event, is there a possibility that the event will fire off before the values are synced? so far all the code ive written, even when the system is super bogged down, the items in a manual synced object always seem to sync the values before the event triggers, which seems pretty fantastic

[frozen igloo]

Manual sync in a good situation will have lower latency than networking events, yes. However if the network is clogged (as in, you are sending a lot of outgoing data) there is the potential for manual sync to be delayed, and it would arrive after a network event sent at the same time

[mossy ruin]

hmm..gonna have to note that and try to think of a better way to do networked method calls with parameters in the future

[frozen igloo]

yeah, just do stuff in OnDeserialization

[mossy ruin]

I had a huge issue with that, OnDeseralization seemed to fire off when people joined, causing values I thought should be one thing end up flipping to another. So if i set a value intended as a method, the logic would fire off a second time. Maybe i can find a better way to do it but i tried my best not to use the method

oh, one last thing. My code for my player list worked great up till resently. I posted bout it but seemed the information tied to the returned player in OnPlayerLeft can be flawed. Had a debug log error out an udon script because calling that player was miss referenced. Know anything bout that bug?

[frozen igloo]

yeah, you can't ever rely on OnDeserialization happening just once. It is not a message system, it does not guarantee that

if you want to guarantee unique messages, you can simply add another variable like a timestamp and then if the timestamp hasn't changed since the last OnDeserialization, you know it's not unique

[mossy ruin]

true could do that

but gotta figure a way around the OnPlayerLeft bug before i work twords that optimization

[frozen igloo]

don't know about that, but at the same time OnPlayerLeft implicitly tells you that player left so can't you just manually invalidate them, remove them from your array, whatever?

[mossy ruin]

if the returned value is null, how do i know who left?

ooo you mean go through my list and verify who isnt valid anymore

ya, that could work

[frozen igloo]

no, you can do comparisons in onplayerleft

go through your array and check if it matches the player that left

[mossy ruin]

i was doing that, and i dont get a match

[frozen igloo]

hm, I've been doing that since before getplayers was a thing and it worked

[mossy ruin]

this is with each of my object containing a VRCPlayerAPI of said player, and doing a player == player comparison

thats what boggled me

it was working before, so i was wondering if somthing changed that broke the reference

do you do a .Equals or a ==?

ill also need to triple check i dont have anything unsetting my player

[azure crane]

there is an obscure bug that if you never reference a player (eg upon join), they may have a bad player id when the player leaves

[mossy ruin]

seems that bug does extend to their display name, i tagged that onto the canny that i saw related to that bug

btw, i just found that indeed my code was unsetting my reference to the player before onPlayerLeft event fired off. I now have it set it up it wont do that

[sacred geode]

What's UDON?

[haughty shuttle]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/what-is-udon

[sacred geode]

Ohhhh

I see.

Thanks.

So, basically Java for VRCHAT?

[haughty shuttle]

More like C# in a Bolt format. Even more like C# if using UdonSharp. But unity supports various languages so it doesnt matter as long as you convert it to Udon.

[warped ore]

Ayyy, I'm back with another question. So I got this spinner from a drinking game but sometimes it decides to either stop spinning at all or land at the same location every spin. Is there something wrong inside of this code? I'm not really sure what it could be.

[haughty shuttle]

SyncSpeen is sent by/to owner but no where do you actually set an owner. I guess technically the instance master is the owner but if you are looking for dependable then the person interacting should be the owner.

[strange oriole]

Interact should probably call Speen, and not SyncSpeen

also if manual synced you need to call request serialization

no owner setting needed since the synced var is set by the owner via network event

[rugged marsh]

Been trying to find some clarification in the docs with no luck, but I assume using _Underscore() method names to block malicious network event calls is only necessary for public methods? Or do they somehow have access to private ones too?

I've seen people using them for variable names too which is also throwing me off, just trying to figure out what all I need to actually worry about renaming.

[frozen igloo]

Udon doesn't have a concept of public and private functions. UdonSharp compiles private functions by not even exposing the name anywhere, it's just a jump address that only the compiler knows

and putting an underscore in front of a private variable is just common code styling, it doesn't do anything functionally

[rugged marsh]

Ok awesome, yea forgot to clarify I'm using U#, will just rename my public methods then. Thanks!

[rugged marsh]

Thanks yea I saw that but it didn't specify private/public and I hadn't thought of the graph/# distinction. Makes sense now.

[frozen igloo]

to clarify: making it a private function is still valid. And an underscore is not necessary in that case

[strange oriole]

ah, okay, i missed that distinction (in the question)

[frozen igloo]

it's even safer than underscore because modded clients can't even call it on their own machine, let alone others

[zealous patio]

always use underscore if you attend the event to be local only at all times

[lone zealot]

You can also now use the Networked Mode "None" as it will make the object completely invisible to the network handler. (That is as long as all the bugs have been fixed...)

[golden wyvern]

simple button that spawns from pool. For some reason only instance owner can spawn. Is vrchat checking owner by default?

[frozen igloo]

Only the owner of the object can spawn from the pool, so you need to transfer ownership before trying to spawn

[golden wyvern]

Thank you ❤️

[dusk steeple]

How can I make an object sync their position over the network. I have the VRC Object Sync script on it. But when I spawn it. it just kinda freezes position on the NON master clients: (Master Client on right) I want it to fall. It has Rigidbody and I spawn the cube using VRCInstantiate

[golden wyvern]

instantiate isnt synced, use object pool instead

[dusk steeple]

:I let's not talk about my stoopidity 🙃

[dusk steeple]

Wait so do I still need to call it from a SendCustomNetworkEvent for it to spawn on EVERY client though 👀

[vast agate]

Your trying to do something similar to me it seems. I'm trying to get an object from the pool to spawn on every player that joins, and in my case stay attached to them then return when they leave the game

I can get it to spawn on join and go to their hip bone, but no luck making it follow them.

[dusk steeple]

Yes I want something like that. So I want an object to "spawn" (Grabbed from the pool) than it goes from point a to b after x amount of time

[vast agate]

hmmm

Delayed events maybe

or use the timer thing they have in the SDK example

[celest mesa]

What's your object actually going to do while tethered to the player? Is it something only they need or needs to talk to other instances of itself on other players?

[stray galleon]

i need the udonsharp form merlin fr the 2019. i think its 2021.3 or something

[haughty shuttle]

https://github.com/MerlinVR/UdonSharp/releases/tag/v0.20.3

that is the current version

you do not need or want an older version unless using an outdated sdk in which case your on your own

[stray galleon]

im having an error where it says its missing ascript of vrc. its cs0234 and cs0236 and i put the newest vrcsdk3 in FIRST

also thats for the 2018. im using 2019 and there is a 404 error when i click on the upgrading

[haughty shuttle]

no its current. Dont pay attention to the 2018 bs. readme needs update

not that it matters but here is the migration doc https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/migrating-from-2018-lts-to-2019-lts

[stray galleon]

Ok but im still getting the cs error even for my world now with that version

[haughty shuttle]

Show your errors

[vernal arch]

hint / question : Which window is the owner of the cube if the cube is a pickup ?

[dusk steeple]

I will be honest XR I can't remember anymore 👀

I kinda stopped making VRChat worlds imma just focus on actual game development and bot development. My brain is too smoll for VRChat worlds

[cyan trench]

Can someone join me right now so I can test object sync if its working for late joiners?

[sharp solstice]

One way to test it yourself is to enable 'Go' on load & start multiple test clients via Unity

[cyan trench]

All my clients loaded at the same time

So does not really help

unless there is a way to intentionally block one from joining until im ready, regardless it does not work

if anyone knows how vrc udon networking works can i get help making the state of an object to sync with late joiners

[vestal radish]

Disable "skip go button" in settings, thus you can enter the instance late

[rugged marsh]

@vestal radish There's a setting on the far right tab of the VRCSDK control panel that adds a 'Last Build' button or something like that which you can use to hop in on separate clients in the same instance without building them all at the same time.

[cyan trench]

u replied to me but talk to someone else?

[rugged marsh]

The response was for both of you, so yea.

[cyan trench]

Matswaps in worlds a thing or no

[haughty shuttle]

yup define new_Material GetComponent<MeshRenderer>().material = new_Material;

[cyan trench]

nice, thank you

why did i put that in networking lol

[celest mesa]

Just want to double-check; Is this an ideal/optimized use case for a Manual Udon script? Bool value stays largely unchanged, only toggles when object enters detection cube.

[azure crane]

this won't sync at all
after you marked your variable as synced, you will have to ensure the object owner (only object owners can request syncing) of the object with the u# graph component will call RequestSerialization after you changed the variable

[celest mesa]

Cheers, I haven't messed with Manual sync much.

[sharp tinsel]

Quick question: Will the OnDeserialization() still being called if it's set to Continues syncing?

[frozen igloo]

yes

[sharp tinsel]

Got it. Thanks!

[fresh stump]

What's the max data send rate for manual sync?

[frozen igloo]

About 18kb/s

[outer harbor]

are fast paste pvp maps do able on udon or am i going to run into network problems and limits with udon?

[azure crane]

you are likely going to run into ping/latency issues instead
vrchat has no networking engineered towards fast pace pvp

nor any special internal routing like some games offer

[celest mesa]

Got a general networking question; I'm looking at the debug screens in-game and I'm noticing that network hitches is constantly increasing for players who aren't the world owner. Is that normal, or do I need to go bug hunting to find what's causing that?

[outer harbor]

@sharp tinsel could i dm you to ask you some stuff i saw your ghost world

[fresh stump]

How to enforce ownership

Should I check If (I'm not owner): Set me as owner
In Update ()
Or in LateUpdate()

Does it matter?

[azure crane]

why do you need ownership? what do you want to do?
both suggested ways are not good ones

[sharp tinsel]

ya sure.. very surprised you find me lol

[outer harbor]

It was in your vrchat bio :3

[sharp tinsel]

oh, hahah

[golden wyvern]

is get players with tag still broken?

[azure crane]

what are you trying to doing?

[real fractal]

When is it better to use methods to modify game objects and when is it better to use an animation?

Seems pretty much anything could go either way

[haughty shuttle]

If you are safe you can use either one. Animations are updated per frame every frame so when they are not in use you deactivate them. You won't find many tutorials that explain that though. I'm old school, I script almost everything, and just like Animations, if you are lazy with your scripts you can tax your performance as well. So basically it's just "you do you".

if you need a specific situation it would be networking. If something needs tracked for sync you are better off scripting it for now. object sync will in time cover Animations I am sure but for now, those should be scripted.

[fresh stump]

How can I stop this cyan trigger from teleporting other players along with me? Doesn't seem to be completely local in game (edit: just switched the first tab to VRC_Direct instead of Local player after reading the manual, hopefully that works)

[wooden sentinel]

your trigger seems ok to me but no idea what's inside player input said....also maybe remove udon behaviour to make it auto regenerate to fix could be...
(if it VRC_Direct, it will teleport all players.)

[fresh stump]

I will try that thanks, I didn't think of removing the udon behaviour tbh

[wooden sentinel]

it will re-generated anyway if you removed. sometimes....it bug out...

If you need further help, Cyan got official support discord at "JHA3ZQ5mXM" as well.

[cursive ember]

is there an overlay i can enable somewhere to see the synced variables of an object?

[wooden sentinel]

use in-game outputlog function.
(require lanch parms)
I think it is option 3 IIRC.

[ivory gorge]

Apologies if I'm miss-reading your question (or if you've already solved it by now), but isn't this because your not breaking it down when you search? When finding a node, you first find the component type and then you say what with said component. In terms of VideoPlayer.get IsPlaying node, you would first search up 'videoplayer', selected it, and then search up 'get isplaying'. You can't search up 'videoplayer.getisplaying' as a whole in the search, you have to search in two parts

Sorry for the ping then. Just that your image didn't show so I though I better check

[frozen igloo]

try using tab to do a full search instead. It will be slower, but it will give you absolutely everything without having to go inside a directory

[dusk shuttle]

Hi. I'm currently trying to create a vehicle switcher for Sacchan's Flight and Vehicles prefab. Locally, things work perfectly fine, but I'm having issues getting the owner of the buttons to change. So far, I've gotten it (mostly) working, however there are some issues.

This graph is applied to all "Toggle" buttons

This graph is in the "Script", which is the sort of main control for the selector. This is the only networking related part. The reason I have it doing the same thing on the request and transfer is because non-owners were having to press the button twice. (I haven't tested if this even works yet, so just pretend the request part doesn't exist for now).

"selectedHeli" is a synced variable, while "tempSelectedHeli" isn't synced

There are many issues with the selector, for example, it will select a seemingly random helicopter on the first ownership change

[obtuse echo]

Are you trying to ensure that you first get ownership before you sync a variable? That's what it looks like to me. Afaik, it's enough to just do SetOwner -> set synced variable for the value to propagate to everyone else. This could vastly simplify the code and you won't have to deal with the issues you are having now.

[dusk shuttle]

I tried that before, and it refused to set the owner

This way actually works at the very least

It's just extremely buggy

It seems to select a random helicopter on first ownership transfer

[obtuse echo]

Is selectedHeli manual synced?

[dusk shuttle]

Yep

[obtuse echo]

Then you have to do RequestSerialization to propagate it to everyone else.

[dusk shuttle]

Ah okay, that will probably solve all of my problems then

[obtuse echo]

Yeah, try doing Interact -> SetOwner -> set selectedHeli -> RequestSerialization, then should already do what you want. Then you call OnDeserialization and execute the actual heli change.

[dusk shuttle]

The actual heli change is all local and happens on update, it's just listening for the synced variable which is used to define an entry in an array

[obtuse echo]

Yeah, you can listen to a change of selectedHeli each frame. However, that's what OnDeserialization is created for, it will only trigger if the value actually changes by someone else.

[dusk shuttle]

Right but what about late joiners

[obtuse echo]

So you can save yourself some frames.

That works too.

They receive OnDeserialization when they join.

[dusk shuttle]

Oh that's neat

I'll replace update with that then, it should automatically work

[obtuse echo]

Yeah, best of luck and merry christmas.

[dusk shuttle]

Merry Christmas to you too, and thanks for the help

[frozen igloo]

do you have a VRCUIShape on the canvas?

then you don't need to worry about that, because that script will assign the event camera

so when you point at the UI, does the laser show up?

what layer is this on?

put it on default

UI is for internal stuff, not world things

[frozen igloo]

Are you getting any errors in your log?

add some debug logs to see how far the code is getting and what it's doing

add a new node, search for debug

yes

and then add a string const node to plug into the debug log

place these wherever things happen so that you can later look at your log and make sure things happen when you expect them to

like this

[frozen igloo]

that's not necessary, don't worry about it

[heavy spindle]

If a Client wants update a networked value of a program, do I have to transfer ownership first

[strange gyro]

The client who is updating the synced variable must be the owner of the object, so yes

[left lagoon]

IS there anyone around that can help me test performance

[heavy spindle]

is there a way for custom events to call methods with arbitrary parameters?

[frozen igloo]

no

there are many alternatives, though. If you give more details about what you're trying to do I could recommend an alternative

[heavy spindle]

I want Clients to be authoritive in adding themselves to a VRCPlayerApi[] which represents the players in the game I am developing

[frozen igloo]

ah, like a "I want to join red team" kinda thing?

[heavy spindle]

Yeah

but I can't deduce how to get a player's ID unless the event includes that

[frozen igloo]

Easiest way would be to simply take ownership of an object, change the array, and then sync it as an int array. Realistically, manual sync is fast enough that it might work even if two people click it at the same time, as long as you're not using OnOwnershipRequest

[heavy spindle]

I was hoping to avoid taking ownership of the manager since hypothetically, 22 people could be wanting to join at the exact same time

[frozen igloo]

if that's not acceptable because you expect a large number of players to sign up very quickly, the more robust but complicated option would be to give a unique object to every player

and usually in a game, it's very useful to have a unique object per player for many other reasons anyway

for that, you can use something like this https://github.com/CyanLaser/CyanPlayerObjectPool

[heavy spindle]

I'll probably go with that. Is there a way to properly make a relation between an arbitrary value and a player where programs can access it?

Oh. Wow

[frozen igloo]

yeah, just grab their playerid

playerids are gauranteed to be unique

[heavy spindle]

even in test mode?

[frozen igloo]

yes

they start at 1 and increase by 1 every time a player joins

[heavy spindle]

I see. That's handy

Thank you for the advice. My work around would have been the physics host being authoritive in determining who's on what team, but I don't want to network what I don't have to

working with Arrays is also jank since I'm coming from JS which is very high level

[left lagoon]

I need help setting up some simple actions that look for any player in an instance pressing a keyboard key and triggering an action. I've tried it with Cyantrigger but it seems that using simple if statements for checking 20 different keypresses across everyone in the world fudges frames. I dont know a better way of doing this or how to check this locally and send the event to everyone else...

[frozen igloo]

could you clarify what you mean by "fudging frames"?

[frail fog]

I forgot how to do simple networking stuff

is there anyone i could DM my code example for some advice?

[dusk shuttle]

Is there a way to make it so OnOwnershipTransferred doesn't call when the master leaves and a new master is chosen?

My method for sort of "bypassing" this right now is this, but I can see this being an issue that will require the master to press the button twice to actually change the variable

Right now, when the master leaves, all the helicopters in my world get set to whichever one the new master last chose, which kicks people out of their helicopters

[obtuse echo]

To detect a master change, you can cache the previous master and then compare it to the new one.

[obtuse echo]

Not sure if what I wrote will actually help you though. Using OnOwnershipTransferred to change the helicopter looks a bit sus to me.

[dusk shuttle]

So basically store all the variables and when the master leaves, send it to the new master?

[dusk shuttle]

It's only for when a non-owner of a button presses the button

They have to first take ownership of the script so they are able to change the variable

[obtuse echo]

Are you not using OnDeserialization?

[dusk shuttle]

Hmm you might have a point actually lol

Idk how it works tbh

There's no good documentation anywhere about how it all works

I was told by someone that it takes time to take ownership of something so I should use OnOwnershipTransferred

Changing a synced variable requires ownership of the behaviour object, does it not?

[obtuse echo]

It does require ownership, however, if you call RequestSerialization after SetOwner, it should arrive properly.

This has worked for me so far.

[dusk shuttle]

Even if it's in two different behaviours?

Basically, the OnOwnershipTransferred part happens in the button graph, and the requestserialization happens in the main graph

[obtuse echo]

Ahh, I think I understand now. Sorry, graph is a bit hard to read for me sometimes. It's also a bit different than what I would do.

[dusk shuttle]

Yeah I should really just learn U# shouldn't I 🤣

If there's a way I could get around using OnOwnershipTransferred, that'd be awesome

Maybe I could do SetOwner in the main script? Instead of checking for owner in the button script, just send the custom event no matter what, and on the owner check in the main script, SetOwner and then RequestSerialization

[obtuse echo]

Yeah, I'd definitely use OnDeserialization for this. It will be a lot cleaner. Basically as I wrote before, literally Interact -> SetOwner of Sync object to local -> change selectedHeli on Sync object -> RequestSerialization on Sync object

[dusk shuttle]

I tried that before but it didn't work due to the multiple graph thing

[obtuse echo]

What did not work?

You need to use OnDeserialization event on the Sync object to catch the change after too.

[dusk shuttle]

OnDeserialization

It wasn't calling it

I even hooked it up to a debug log

[obtuse echo]

The thing is, since you are doing it cross graph, you might need to call syncObj.RequestSerialization in the button.

[dusk shuttle]

Got no response from it at all

What's syncObj

[obtuse echo]

Sorry, you called it syncBehavior

I could actually code it up for you real quick.

[dusk shuttle]

What if I did
Interact>SetProgramVariable>SendCustomNetworkEvent
in the button, and in the main script I did
CustomEvent>Branch(isOwner)>If True do>set syncedVariable to localVariable>RequestSerialization>else(If False)>SetOwner>set syncedVariable to localVariable>RequestSerialization

Because I'm not setting owner of the button, I'm setting owner of the main script anyways

[obtuse echo]

Hmm, you gave me an idea hold on. But I meant something like this:

[dusk shuttle]

RequestSerialization doesn't do anything in the button script because the synced variable is in the main script

I'm just trying to change a synced variable in the main script using the buttons, that's all

The "SetProgramVariable" changes a local variable that it uses as a reference for which button was pressed basically

[obtuse echo]

I'm changing the selectedHeli in the main script, which is a synced variable, right?

[dusk shuttle]

It first changes a local variable in the main script

The customnetworkevent changes the synced variable into the local variable

[obtuse echo]

And instead of changing a local variable in the main script to then sync it, you can instead change the synced variable directly is what I'm saying.

[dusk shuttle]

Not from the button though, because then they'd have to take ownership of each button individually

[obtuse echo]

Hold on, I'll make a better example how I'd do it maybe it will be more clear then. (I could be misunderstanding too).

[dusk shuttle]

That's what I tried before and it didn't work

[obtuse echo]

Tell me if it's what you want, everyone else will receive the new variable and you can do whatever you want after the branch.

You can also use this node instead of OnDeserialization:

[dusk shuttle]

The OnDeserialization is optional, right?

[obtuse echo]

Yeah it's optional, it's just an event that will be called and you can choose to listen to it.

[dusk shuttle]

Alright

Everything before that is basically what I was saying

Except without the ownership checking branch

Which I didn't realize is actually not necessary

[obtuse echo]

Yeah, and this way it's easier to see what's going on since it's more simple.
One thing to know though, OnDeserialization is called when someone receives a change of the variable from the network, so the one who set it locally won't get it called. That's why I suggested the Change node, that one will be called every time the synced variable changes, be it from the Network or locally.

[dusk shuttle]

Ah that makes a lot of sense

That might be why it wasn't working for me lol. I always check with CyanEmu if it even works locally before I build and test it to see if it syncs properly

I'm completely new to networking stuff in general so I don't understand a lot of what's going on

But it's starting to make sense now

[obtuse echo]

Yeah, you can only simulate how ownership would look like locally with CyanEmu. I don't think sending data between two clients is possible

[dusk shuttle]

It's not I've tried :((

[obtuse echo]

Also, don't worry, Networking can make very little sense for normal humans if you try hard enough, so better keep it simple for yourself.

[dusk shuttle]

I understand a lot of the concepts of it, but actually working with it is confusing

I don't understand what a lot of these words and phrases actually mean in networking, can it's hard to find any information about it

So this isn't working lol

Ownership isn't being transferred at all for some reason

Ah

It might be because local testing is weird

This is what it says when I try clicking on it with the other client

[obtuse echo]

This is intended, SetOwner gets ignored if you are already the master.

Everything else will continue working.

[dusk shuttle]

No

I'm saying

For the client that wasn't the owner

It wasn't setting the owner

It would say that in the console

I'm testing it with a second account

[obtuse echo]

If you are the master, then you already own the object.

[dusk shuttle]

Yes, I know that. I was testing with 2 local clients but they were under the same name

One local client is master (first joined), the other isn't master and doesn't own anything unless otherwise specified

[obtuse echo]

They still have different ids and ownerships states.

What exactly is not working by the way?

[dusk shuttle]

Then why does the console say I already own it if it didn't own anything

[dusk shuttle]

Master can change helis freely, local user cannot gain ownership of main script and therefore cannot change synced variable

Anytime I clicked on the button with the LOCAL user, not the master, it would give me that warning in the console

It claimed I already had ownership

My guess is it was bugging out since local testing just does that sometimes

[dusk shuttle]

If I put the target on all, it'll desync

Because it doesn't update the local variable for everyone else

So it sets it to whatever THEIR local variable is

[obtuse echo]

Oh wait, I just realized it's a networked event, you don't need that.

[dusk shuttle]

Ah okay I was about to say

I had it on all before and I had this nightmare occuring

Hm

I have to SetOwner in the button script I just realized

That's why I'm having issues

Or

I need to switch the networkevent for a normal customevent

Because a normal customevent affects the local player

[obtuse echo]

Yeah, that's what I wrote before.

Only the local player needs to take control over the sync and then tell everyone else what they do with it.

[dusk shuttle]

Thanks for the help again btw

It's working now hmm might just go ahead and drop this and see how it goes lol

[thorn surge]

I'm trying to figure out why some networking events are working for some players and not others, purely as a fact find - have there been any known cases of client modifications interfering with in-map udon events?

[frozen igloo]

could be several things. I don't think it would be a modified client unless they're specifically blocking it, which I doubt would happen on accident

[thorn surge]

Sure, that was the expected answer, thanks Phase.

[frozen igloo]

first things first - make sure everyone is on the same version of the world. If it's been updated recently, get everyone to rejoin. If there is both a quest and PC version, make sure that both versions have the same hierarchy

other thing might be that the scripts have crashed for some people

[thorn surge]

Ah actually thanks for mentioning that. I have been trying to test networking events through using the in-built Test feature in the API package. Are there any limitations on this? For example, if I am trying to do something by a vrcplayerapi, does it register two test clients as separate players?

[frozen igloo]

yes, local testing with multiple clients is quite reliable and I would highly recommend doing that before dragging in a bunch of people

the only situation that won't work is if you are checking their name, the name will be the same

[thorn surge]

Excellent, it is good to rule that out.

I shall puzzle on, thanks for your insight man.

[junior badger]

I correct in my understanding that OnPlayerCollision and such events fire on all clients including master?

[frozen igloo]

onplayertrigger events, yes

collision events are a bit different and probably not what you want

[junior badger]

Probably I testing triggers currently, and somewhere between event and variable sync something not working (silently)

[junior badger]

does Synchronization have something to do with trigger/collision detection?

[frozen igloo]

not directly

everyone will observe it happen because the players themselves are synced

but that doesn't mean the event itself is "synced" it's just that everyone observes it as a result of something that is synced

[junior badger]

i still cant trigger OnPlayerTrigger on master from client.

[frozen igloo]

what layer is the object on

[junior badger]

default

it works for instance owner

[frozen igloo]

does this object move?

[junior badger]

nope

[frozen igloo]

does it extend all the way to the floor or is it floating?

[junior badger]

floating

[frozen igloo]

ah, that would do it

there's a weird thing where remote player colliders are smaller than local colliders

if you were to jump they'd probably see it

[junior badger]

...

it worked

[junior badger]

how do i destroy object for all players?

Unity.Destroy destroys only local copy...

i thinking about sending Destroy network event and killing object in each instance. Any other way?

[frozen igloo]

Networking destroy won't work. You would need to send some kind of network event or synced variables that can tell other players what you want to do and then they all do unity destroy together

But of course instantiated objects can't sync so some other object would need to coordinate this and have some way of determining which object you want to deatroy

[junior badger]

will that work?

[frozen igloo]

Depends, what is destroyonhit?

[junior badger]

gameobject

not very intuitive i know

WIP XD

[frozen igloo]

No I mean where does it come from

Was it instantiated? Can you guarantee that it will always be valid before this point?

[junior badger]

from inspector on prefab

[frozen igloo]

What I'm getting at is that you probably want to add another isvalid when they receive the event because it may be valid on the person sending but not the receiver

Or perhaps two people have it valid and send the event at the same time and now it tries to destroy twice

[junior badger]

done, thanks for suggestion. hope it works

what about "instantiated objects can't sync"? that sounds very important

[frozen igloo]

Yeah, you cannot put synced variables or objectsync on them

But depending on what you're doing, you can make the actual syncing happen through an object that is not instantiated

[junior badger]

sooooo

this wont sync?

Max/CurrentHealth i mean

[junior badger]

tested it... now i get why instantiated object don't sync... they created locally only aren't they?

so if i want to create them everywhere i need to do in on each client separately, but then they will be different object and wont sync

what a pain...

is there a way to instantiate object so it would sync?)

[frozen igloo]

No

[frozen igloo]

^

[junior badger]

i starting to think of just creating those objects on scene for each possible player manually....

and there no way to transfer actual data over network other then sync, right?

[frozen igloo]

That's the definition of sync

Ownership, Synced variables, and network events

[junior badger]

but they didnt say anything about instantiating working only locally! so i thought maybe they didn't tell us something actually usefull X)

[frozen igloo]

Look for cyan object pool, it assigns a unique object to each player from a pool rather than indtantiating

[junior badger]

Found it, it basically does what I was thinking to do)

[golden wyvern]

When someone spawns all available objects from pool, and someone else tries to spawn from empty, their vrchat crashes. am i doing something wrong? pretty sure its not supposed to crash people.

[frozen igloo]

are you doing anything with the object that you get from trytospawn?

[golden wyvern]

I do, but that code from empty test scene with simple cubes that dont have anything. still crashes

[frozen igloo]

I don't see how the code you posted could crash

[golden wyvern]

makes 2 of us

[frozen igloo]

but if you're doing anything with the object you get, make sure that you check isvalid before trying to do anything else

because if the pool is full, trytospawn will return null. Trying to do anything with a null object will crash

[golden wyvern]

it crashes on TryToSpawn, so there is nothing to validate

[frozen igloo]

what's the error you're getting?

[golden wyvern]

i dont have errors, just freeze and crash

[frozen igloo]

wait you're saying vrchat itself crasges?

wtf

[golden wyvern]

yeah, it freezes, and only way to close is to force close the window

[frozen igloo]

that sounds like it's stuck in an infinite loop

[golden wyvern]

also i wasnt able to replicate in cyanemu

[frozen igloo]

could you share a pic of the objectpool with the array expanded?

[golden wyvern]

that the test one

[frozen igloo]

hm I'm not sure how it would cause the problem you're describing, but you shouldn't have that udonbehaviour on continuous

[golden wyvern]

its not the issue

[golden wyvern]

yeah just replicated issue in completly new clean project, i guess its a bug

[frozen igloo]

upload a world and post a canny with the world

[golden wyvern]

i got my main project already uploaded, it happens to any object pool https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_323e1d92-b0fc-485b-b394-2d8e05b6565b

you need 2 clients to test it though. it happens only to second person that didnt spawn original pool objects

ok this is test world with 3 cubes. 1 person clicks 3 times and spawns 3 cubes, other person clicks and crushes. if by tommorow there wont be any answer, ill submit bug report to vrchat developers https://vrchat.com/home/launch?worldId=wrld_deb7c7d4-6c5b-419f-a3d5-26725e0f6e7b

ill go celebrate now, happy new year @frozen igloo and thanks for trying to help

[frozen igloo]

if you need a quick alternative though, one solution would be to send a network event to the owner and then have the owner spawn from the pool

[golden wyvern]

thanks for advice, i think there wont be an alternative anytime soon so ill use it instead

❤️

yeah dont want owner to be bombarded with network events though, its for discord events, and host will be owner of everything....

[frozen igloo]

sending a network event to the owner would be better than transferring ownership

[golden wyvern]

really? transferring ownership is that heavy on network?

i mean i want like 20 pools to be manged

[frozen igloo]

I mean it's all pretty cheap tbh

splitting hairs

if it was a single pool, keeping it on one owner would be better. but if you have a bunch of pools, you can distribute them to all the players so technically that might be cheaper. But the majority of the cost is going to come from the objects that are spawned from the pool, not from the pool itself. So it really doesn't matter

[sharp tinsel]

So.. my game almost always take very long to initialize sync, but it will work smoothly after the first time load, what could be the potential reason that can delay the manual sync for 1 min?

[frozen igloo]

are you talking about yourself in general or everyone in your world?

[sharp tinsel]

Everyone in the world but the room master,

[frozen igloo]

do you have a lot of manual synced objects?

[sharp tinsel]

Yes, do they delay the sync even if we don't request sync on it?

[frozen igloo]

two thinga: if a player joins, manual sync is resent on all objects

[sharp tinsel]

that's probably the reason...

[frozen igloo]

and if you have a lot to send, you will be "clogged" and which will delay manual sync and slow continuous

[sharp tinsel]

🤔 if I set these object inactive when player just joined, will that help?

[frozen igloo]

not really

you shouldn't try to stop it, it's doing exactly what you want

you should instead try to reduce how much data you're sending

[sharp tinsel]

well not exactly... caz they are just empty player slot when player joined, it will only be filled later when the game start, by when I need to sync them for assigning roles and stuff.

[frozen igloo]

if you add OnPostSerialization to your manual sync objects, you can then access serializationresult.bytecount and see how expensive it is. If it's around a few thousand that's like a bit but not a ton. over 10 thousand is where it gets heavy. And the limit is 50k

if you're under 1000 bytes and still running into problems then it's not your fault

[sharp tinsel]

well....

[frozen igloo]

is that all the objects you have?

are there any others?

[sharp tinsel]

The only other sync object is the lobby manager, which does have a bit more data but the door will only open when it finished sync, but I can double check its sync byte count

well there's 20 players in total so it's going to be around a few thousand when the game start I guess.

It's just weird that even when there's 20 players, it really doesn't take long to sync,

it's just when a lot new player joins, it greatly delay the sync, like for minutes. And I removed all "OnPlayerJoined" functions still not getting any better. that's where confuses me

well.....

I think it's probably multipliying the sync request... 20 players joining at the same time ended with 20 x requests for 20 player objects and that's about 25,600 byte data to sync.

maybe?

[sharp tinsel]

Did set all sync objects into inactive by default when the player loads in, that helps a bit, previously I was setting them into inactive after the initialization functions. Could be much easier if it supports static member.

[frozen igloo]

yeah if they've never been active once they won't sync with late joiners

[sharp tinsel]

But it still takes relatively long to do the initial sync, I just couldn't find what is causing it. Only 10 vrc object sync objects left in the scene.

[frozen igloo]

but as soon as they've been active then it doesn't matter if they're active or not, they'll always sync

[sharp tinsel]

For the objects with VRC object sync active, will it still sync to late joiners even if on their end these objects are inactive?

[frozen igloo]

hm, I'm not sure about objectsync

I know manual does

[sharp tinsel]

I see, I guess it's okay in that case then, caz when player joined the game and going through that initial sync, if it's in-game, it has tons of time to sync, if it's not in-game, well, most of the guns and items will be inactive at that point.

oh there's only 21 manual sync objects in total in my scene. I figured it didn't help to set characters as inactive by default and enable when needed.

I meant I disabled many object sync objects.

gun pickups

I further compressed the byteCount for sync data of my character objects and lobby manager, now the character is at 60, and lobby manager is like 90 or something, not significant improve, but it should still help.

[jade obsidian]

Job/gig Offer: PAID, SFW

• Looking for World Developers
• Assets/3D designers
• Udon programmers

Currently I'm exploring posibilities of what can be done, and looking for people to work with.

PM example of your work (and hourly rate), thank you!

[wind dagger]

Assets? I can do textures

[ivory gorge]

This isn't really the place for this. would recommend going to 'VRC Traders' discord

[fresh stump]

Can somebody help me find a militaristic tactical anime female avatar?

id perfer a black outfit

[humble roost]

#avatar-search-old

[frozen igloo]

I don't think so. I'm not familiar with it but from a quick search it looks like something you have to bind/send/receive on specific ports, which is quite a bit lower-level than udon networking

Udon networking has two primary components: network events, where you just make a function happen on other clients. And synced variables, where an udonbehaviour has a list of pre-defined variables. The owner will send their values and everyone else will receive those values. Then your code can interpret what to do with them

[lone zealot]

You'd think that

simpler is the better word

not necessarily easier

[atomic palm]

Not sure if my question belongs here or in the udon-questions-channel:

I am working on a soccer game where players drive around on robots and by click, shoot the ball, if they are close to it.
It seems the synced ball only has proper collisions for the localPlayer, while other players only see an oscillating movement where the ball never hits the walls.
Is there a way to force a higher priority on corretc movement/collisions of a single object, to get it as accurate and fast as possible in the network?
The standard VRCObjectSync seems not to do the trick in my example.

[azure crane]

vrcobjectsync is really bad on fast movements, even slow movements, sadly, this was not always the case, but it happened at some point of udon, i am not sure when
it usually looks okay for the owner of the object and the eventual final position should be the same nonetheless

you can do a manual sync approach and see if that works better, but you will have to implement logic such as lerping too

[fresh stump]

You may check out https://github.com/Xytabich/UNet
Default vrchat networking is yuk

[junior badger]

is there a way to get avatar size?

[fresh stump]

Yes, avatar size is distance between head bone and foot bone

[lone zealot]

Until you crouch, or lay down, or playspace move. You cant calculate actual avatar height.
You can estimate it, but there is a better way than that.

[junior badger]

Well, I mostly need current upper boundary of the head, I thought about using head bone, but head size can vary greatly between avatars, so the position of the bone in the head

[fresh stump]

why would you continuously calculate it though?

[lone zealot]

When would you calculate it then?

[fresh stump]

I suppose its enough to do it at start & when the menu is closed

[mossy ruin]

i have a networking question wondering if anyone can answer. Does anyone know if you set a bytearray sync during on deserialization and call request serialization during a condition that prevents it from spamming, is it possible for that data to not get sent out on a manual sync behavior?

[lone zealot]

That doesnt guarantee that the avatar has loaded in yet.

[fresh stump]

okay then attach a sphere with a collider to the head and ontriggerexit recalculate it

[frozen igloo]

I've done some back-and-forths where you receive ondeserialization and then immediately setowner and requestserialization right back. It's always worked great. You didn't mention setowner though, are you doing that?

[fresh stump]

or something idk figure it out your the developer

im just random person on internet

[mossy ruin]

hmm, ill need to check if the user has set the owner yet. Its on my playermethod scripts which is supposed to verify and take ownership if they dont have it if they are set to own the class

[frozen igloo]

well if you're receiving ondeserialization then you're 100% not the owner

[mossy ruin]

so they should but ya if its not getting set then that would be bad

yes, tho thats not the issue here, lemme explain what im doing

each class is set to a player id and claimed. I have a byte array that has a timestamp, method, and parameter data that is set. Im using this to set a paramater for a player by calling their own parameter set method (which they own). Ondeseralization gets called for that object which everyone sees, and since one of the assosiated parameters is the target player, that player then sets the assosiated data for their own script, then request seralizing for others to pick up on the next on deseralize

but on their own object

[frozen igloo]

yeah, straight forward "hey you, gimme your data"

[mossy ruin]

ya

[frozen igloo]

just make sure to do setowner

[mossy ruin]

i want to avoid spamming it if i dont need to, ondeserlize does have an ownership check

so ill run a quick test to see if they arnt claiming the object yet

[frozen igloo]

ondeserialize, only setowner if your playerID matches the playerID

shouldn't spam anything, should just be one round trip

[mossy ruin]

yes, thats apart of my ownership check

[mossy ruin]

so i verified that when the person was setting the synced data, they did indeed own the object, but ondeseralize did not trigger for everyone else after setting the data and request seralization

[frozen igloo]

did onpostserialization happen for the person who did requestserialization?

that also gives you a serializationresult so you can see if it succeeded and how many bytes it took up

[mossy ruin]

ah, it did and had a false on the result

[frozen igloo]

is this a lot of data?

[mossy ruin]

no, its a byte array with one byte

[frozen igloo]

what other synced variables are on it?

[mossy ruin]

the methodbuffer...wait

so it is giving this error:
caught argument excpetion: argument cant be null

[frozen igloo]

some synced empty arrays might break things

[mossy ruin]

thats...annoying

so, the method buffer is only ment to signal a method call, do i need to fill it with at least one byte of data?

[frozen igloo]

I think you can give it an array with length 0

[mossy ruin]

ah, i think that i can do, ill try that and see what happens

[mossy ruin]

that seemed to work, good to know synced arrays should always default to empty

[fresh stump]

If a player joins mid-game, while this get run on any variables that get synced from the server? 🙂

[frozen igloo]

yes

[fresh stump]

Awesome, thanks 🙂

[fresh stump]

If the first player / main owner leaves, and a new owner is assigned, what happens to the variables of the objects he receives ownership of?

Does he get the new state that the original owner had, or do the variables stay the same as when they had no ownership?

[frozen igloo]

variables will not change without you telling them to

the owner will send the state of the variables, and when it transfers to someone else they will have the same state

however if the owner sets a variable and then leaves before they've sent them, nobody will see it

[fresh stump]

ah okay. I'm used to not replicating every variable because in theory the clients don't need to know everything about the internals of a round, but in this case its very important that everyone could in theory take over the scripts right?:

And does that mean the game could in theory soft-lock if the owner is running a timer on an important object, but the owner leaves?

[frozen igloo]

yeah definitely

you can build in safeguards where if the owner leaves, it resets the round back to some default state. But it would probably be better (albeit more difficult) to make sure anyone can take over at any time

[fresh stump]

yep, that makes sense

hmm for my game I suppose the owner leaving causing a reset isn't a huge deal

but I'll try just properly propagating state first

[atomic palm]

Hi guys, when using Manual instead of Continuous on an UdonBehaviour, how do I trigger the manual sync?

[strange gyro]

UdonBehaviour.RequestSerialization

[atomic palm]

Thank you!

[mossy ruin]

what's a good rule of thumb for how many bytes you should limit to a single continous object? like would a byte array of 67 bytes be too much?

[frozen igloo]

I believe it's somewhere around 200 bytes in total. But that does not directly correspond to the length of a byte array. To see how much data you're using precisely, you can use OnPostSerialization's serializationresult

[mossy ruin]

ok, but it sounds like at least ill likly be in a good target zone with 67 length byte array

[frozen igloo]

yeah probably

[mossy ruin]

is this per object or for all objects in scene?

[frozen igloo]

per object

[mossy ruin]

sweetness

[mossy ruin]

had another idea of approach...but i dont know if it would be better. Roughly how many frames do you think pass between packet sends on continuous objects? trying to think if i track input on a per frame bases how much data would i collect before it seralizes it

i assume it would depend on how much traffic is going on, wasnt sure if there was a good average on how offten it seralizes

[frozen igloo]

it's about 5 per second, but can go down to 1-2 per second if the network is clogged

[gritty lark]

Hey, are there any world-creators interested in making something related for fitness?

I'm with a company called YUR and we're thinking about making some fitness-related content in VRchat

Send me a DM if you're interested, any skill level is fine

[azure crane]

i don't think this server is the right place for this type of advertisement

[ivory gorge]

I recommend going to a server for commissions. VRC Traders is pretty good for that kinda thing

[gritty lark]

Hmm, where would a good spot be?

Oh, thanks :)

[idle drift]

I mean it’s technically networking lmao

[sleek cosmos]

VRCObjectSync on the main body and wheels, VRC Station controls the wheel colliders for movement and it updates the wheel's pos/rot to the matching collider (making it "roll" and "turn"), anybody know why the wheels are moving at a different rate than the body?

[sinful lotus]

does anyone know how to make a button that enables/disables an object and that object is synced for anyone? also that only the owner of the instance or world can toggle and nobody else? thanks

[sinful lotus]

i have this but idk how to make it work only for the owner of the instance or world

[ivory gorge]

Here's one of my scripts that has toggles two gameobject arrays. the top half is all the networking. if you only want the instance owner to be able to change it, add a 'playerapi.get ismaster' check after the interact

[sharp tinsel]

I recommend build a small function that uses sync variable to simulate wheel rolling animation rather than use VRCObjectSync to sync their position/rotations. As it has a relatively high latency and inconsistency, it will make awkward scene like that.

[mossy ruin]

If you keep under the 200 bytes limit on a continous object, whats the liklyhood that there will be data loss if a lot of players are on? Right now i have an object that syncs a lil less then 90bytes, but if a packet is loss that can start causing trouble for what its doing

[frozen igloo]

if you care about every single packet then you shouldn't use continuous

[mossy ruin]

hmm...then how bad would it be if i did the 100 bytes manual, but keep flagging request seralization?

[frozen igloo]

if you do it at the same rate it will have roughly the same cost

you can spam it faster than 5 per second but it will dramatically increase cost

[mossy ruin]

aaah gotcha

so if i make a timer set to go off 5 times per second to call request seralization, then it should be alright

[frozen igloo]

probably

you can keep an eye on it by checking Networking.IsClogged. If you spam requestserialization too much, it will get clogged and then your manual sync will be forcefully delayed. So the trick is if you're doing manual sync in a continuous-like way, you want to adjust the frequency of the requestserialization so that it does not get clogged

[mossy ruin]

hmm, well the issue is the longer i wait, the more data that will stack up

the faster i use it, the less data i need to send

[frozen igloo]

but all that being said, just switching to manual and still doing the same thing that continuous does will probably not solve your problem. Manual does not guarantee that all players receive all packets because if the synced variables get overridden before a player has received them, they will be lost

[mossy ruin]

wait they can be overridden before they get it?

[frozen igloo]

yeah, if their connection is particularly unsteady

it will be cheaper and more reliable to send occasional bursts of data than a frequent stream of data

[mossy ruin]

i see, so i shouldnt go too fast, but in this case i shouldnt go too slow.

i am working in a optimization to help remove data related to the player not changing input, hopefully that will help too

[frozen igloo]

that is indeed the main dilemma of realtime networking

if you want to guarantee that everyone receives a very important message and there might be other important messages coming later, the best way to do that is a network event

network events, unlike synced variables, do guarantee that they are received exactly once

[mossy ruin]

ya, tho thats not gonna work here

[frozen igloo]

if this is input then that's a finite range of values, no?

[mossy ruin]

im basicly trying to make the preview of a game in sync by controlling random and time interval, and syncing the player input

the range of values is an x/y of the joystick, and a button press

that x/y isnt static tho, i could make it static which then that would work better but change the percesion

overall, this is mainly for the preview, so if it desyncs i suppose thats ok, itll reset next game

wait, not sure if static is the right word, its a float not a 0-1

[frozen igloo]

if you want to sync the input that's fine, but you should definitely also sync the results of that input too so that it doesn't drift out of sync

[mossy ruin]

that would end up being too much data tho

[frozen igloo]

are you sure? Manual sync can do a lot

[mossy ruin]

i have a player, 30 eneimes, 10 power ups, with different states

i think overall it was close to 100bytes as well

so i would be pushing that 200 byte limit

[frozen igloo]

manual sync can do 1 kilobyte instantly, 10kb if you wait a few seconds, and the absolute limit is about 60kb per serialization

a few hundred bytes is nothing

[mossy ruin]

hmm

wait, its 100 bytes per frame of result

so the input is 3 bytes a frame

i suppose its more of i could capture where they are that frame

right as you said, result of them XD

[frozen igloo]

I would probably capture a whole second of data and send that as one big blob, to be replayed when it is received

[mossy ruin]

mmm, maybe, ima try just doing the input, keeping that in sync, and see if itll be enough in a stress test. If not ill see about what i can do to show the result too

in the end, i just want it so others can watch you play

[frozen igloo]

yes, in situations where you are simply sharing what happened and you don't need other players to interact with it live, recording and playing back large chunks of data is ideal. That is effectively what video buffering is

[mossy ruin]

imagine figuring out how to caputre the per frame texture of the shader result, and syncing that XD

[frozen igloo]

syncing input is typically used in situations where neither player has authority over the simulation. it's a valid technique but I don't think it's the best here

[mossy ruin]

possibly, if this doesnt work i can limit the input to be very constrained and switch to events

i think 8 events would be the least needed for a joystick and single button