^^^
#avatar-quest
long talon
pastel storm
you act like reading your fps is gonna fluctuate so much that you can't make a reasonable estimate
viscid bloom
So unity is the one to use for making avatars then?
pastel storm
don't be so obviously unreasonable
viscid bloom
You are being pretty unreasonable to them
fluid kiln
@viscid bloom You can use any 3D creation application to make models, etc, but it must be imported into Unity.
No, Mimi can't run the profiler on Oculus Quest. No user can. However, debug/dev builds can. I've done it myself
viscid bloom
Okay, I'm new as of quest, and wouldn't mind seeing about making some avatars but I have little to no experience with that type of thing
pastel storm
come to my world right now
quest user waiting here
come try it out in person
with this guy telling you
don't rely on a profiler when you have the actual game
long talon
The profiler is literally a view into the inside of the engine and every little single tiny thing that could cause lag. yes, driving a mustang around a racetrack will tell you if it runs fine. but you should always ALWAYS diagnose the motor manually.
floral gust
90% of vrc models are mmd and thats why most people do decimate them down for quest but you can only decimate so much before the model just looks like trash.
Limiting opttions and killing the community
pastel storm
the game itself is the only place to get the actual impact you see ingame
stop typing and log in and talk to em right here
fluid kiln
I will note that the profiler is running the application-- that's where it gets its data from. But this is nitpicking.
long talon
decimate without keeping shapekeys, retopo for an hour, make your own shape keys.
beautiful result on basically 90% of MMD models.
neon otter
how do you upload for quest avatars? It's saying the standard shader of unity is not supported?!?
fluid kiln
You have to use the Shaders included in the SDK under the VRChat/Mobile category.
fluid kiln
Nope!
pastel storm
the fact that there is even an internal discussion means that you aren't able to make your decision based on this profiler alone
fluid kiln
You can use anything on worlds, but be careful with it 😃
pastel storm
come see it ingame right now
viscid bloom
Hey, is there like an official tutorial for going about making good avatars?
long talon
It's recommended to use the vrchat lightmapped shader tho
pastel storm
before these guys run out of goddamn batteries
long talon
imagine not keeping your quest plugged in
fluid kiln
@viscid bloom Not official, no, but there's a ton of community videos. We have some "official" videos but they're quite old, the Community outran us with tutorials pretty quickly
shy pike
@viscid bloom if you want to model from scratch, there are tons of blender toturorials out there. like, so many great ones. you can search for anything you want to do and probably get too many results!
viscid bloom
Okay I'll have to check some out then
pastel storm
we're waiting here in the world you removed @fluid kiln
long talon
My personal recommendation is Surfaced Studio's Blender 2.8 Crash Course
fluid kiln
I appreciate the effort, but I am not the person to convince
If you have feedback regarding the proposed Quest limits, I suggest you make a Canny post for discussion
pastel storm
you are the accessible person who decided to come chat with us at all
fluid kiln
Yes, I am the Community Manager, so that is part of my job 😃
shy pike
canny is the best way to be heard. arguing here will get you literally nowhere
pastel storm
come manage this quest dude
fluid kiln
The best way to get heard is to make a Canny post discussing your viewpoint, issues, and proposed solution
pastel storm
we're not gonna get handwaved away to canny during this extremely limited timeframe
this is something that can't be sat on and muddled over while people forget the avatars they had
you have the time to shit talk with someone how bad my taste is in an anime i didnt watch while drooling over removing the world
but you can't come in game and say hello and have a guy tell you to your face that the profiler is wrong
viscid bloom
Talking in circles until you get your way isn't going to solve anything either
pastel storm
yes i know im being hard on you and probably make it difficult for you to stay professional
but you don't need to act professional my dude
shy pike
no one is going to join you, so, canny is your only choice, unless you dont care about being heard at all, then go ahead and ignore the canny
pastel storm
i don't care about you being nice to me if im talking to you like this, i'd rather there be action than i get treated like some 'customer'
fluid kiln
Making a post on the Canny is hardly being "handwaved" away. Every post is read by the team. I personally went through this morning (on a weekend, dang it) and read/summarized/moved around a few posts. Attempting to argue here in this channel will get you nowhere but spin your tires.
If you suspect that something is wrong with the Unity profiler, I strongly suggest that you submit a bug report to Unity themselves! It is very important component of the Unity editor. Having something malfunctioning with it would suggest something is wrong with the Unity game engine.
pastel storm
profiler for unity version that's 2 years old
submitting a bug for it
because the devs don't wanna just swap a few avatars ingame to see
im being memed right now aren't i
neon otter
uh how does one use the mobile shaders? It doesn't allow me to just drag it onto the model, unless I'm lookin at the wrong area, this was the only place named Mobile in the sdk
fluid kiln
Unity 2017.4.15f1 LTS was released November 12, 2018, but I understand that the year is confusing.
@neon otter Select it on your model's Material.
neon otter
oooohhh 🤦
I have blender models and no actual changeable materials
fluid kiln
Oh! You'll need to change the import settings for your model.
shy pike
the year in the unity version numbers have nothing to do with the year the version was relesaed
pastel storm
@neon otter if it doesn't let you change it at all then extract it from the prefab
by clicking on the model in your asset list, then the material in there
fluid kiln
Select your model in your Assets, and click the Materials tab in the Inspector. Choose "Legacy (external materials)".
neon otter
what import settings?
fluid kiln
There's other ways to do it but that's how I go about it, I like having external materials
neon otter
ah got it
long talon
I went ULTRA HARDCORE on optimization and still got this. if you tell me 5k isnt enough I'll scream. https://bocchi.is-pretty.cool/3bE4L81.png
fluid kiln
You could put a normal map on the skirt and get some shadowing to fake "ruffles" i bet 🤔
long talon
there's still a few things I wanna fix in the atlas
pastel storm
come right now tupper
long talon
buttons are too spaced out and skirt pattern doesn't line up right
pastel storm
and say hello to a quest user ingame
long talon
you can't force tupper to join the game
viscid bloom
They already said they wouldn't. And that they are a community manager...
long talon
it won't change anything even if he does join, I believe you've made your point abundantly clear already.
pastel storm
1 week from now: patch comes out, 7.5k limit, all the quest users are mad
2 weeks from now: quest users calm down, they don't bother trying
long talon
I'll be here laughing, pointing fingers and saying "I told you"
pastel storm
3 weeks to 2 years from now: everyone on quest is still using banana people or spending $50 on booth for a decent quest avatar (or spending weeks to months learning blender to get something decent)
pastel storm
i can pump out 100 optimized pc avatars a day if i spent all day doing it
good luck getting one 5k poly avatar out of an amatuer in their lifetime that looks decebt
long talon
are they gonna be of quality, well polished
spare flume
Hi I’m a quest user and I use 15k polygons and I run to 30-40 frames and when I run the public avatars I usually get to 40-50 frames
pastel storm
i've invited you to my world several times but you never came earlier @long talon
but they all perform great on both PC and quest
neon otter
uh is this normal?
I put on a mobile shader and it just turns my material white
long talon
if you mean yesterday, I was on beta, hanging out with the index controller gang
pastel storm
better than the quest 5k avatars that are publically available, measurably.
long talon
if you mean earlier today, I havent even booted vrchat today
pastel storm
yesterday my world was already made private by tupper
after talking about how much he hated KnJ :^)
spare flume
5k avatars are basically only the public avatars obviously there will be others but there be bad too
pastel storm
come hang out @long talon
fluid kiln
@neon otter keep in mind that we also recommend 1-2 materials max for Quest avatars, it looks like those models have dozens
shy pike
you dont have a right to a poor optimized avatar because it's "hard" to have an optimized avatar. use one made from someone else if you cant make one yourself
and stealing off DA PC avatars isnt a right to you either really
neon otter
oh, it was because I made some models based on sprites that are supper low poly, but came at a cost of lots of colors >~<
Still nothing
pastel storm
they are more optimized -regardless- of poly count when they are causing better performance than the hand picked public ones the devs chose for quest users.
long talon
oooooh, I think I know what's happening
pastel storm
come see for yourself.
neon otter
this is standard shading
long talon
is every material untextured with a different diffuse color?
I believe Shotariya's MatCombiner actually lets you atlas that
long talon
dank
neon otter
I've never used mapping much or at all, i've always just color things in blender with materials >~<
long talon
load it back up in blender, click the generate atlas button under optimization in CATS'
fluid kiln
look into using this: https://github.com/Grim-es/material-combiner-addon
pastel storm
@shy pike come add me as a friend and check it out yourself instead of talking shit about 15k polys
neon otter
k
shy pike
if you want to try, I recommend trying a gradient texture set! it can be neat looking if you want to put the effort to trying it
no thanks
fluid kiln
nab, I understand your frustration, but you've been given a pathway forward. Make a post regarding the issue on the Canny. Continued discussion here is neither productive nor will it cause change.
pastel storm
it's productive when im being told by mods that my avatars are unoptimized without them ever seeing them
same with you removing it for the same arbitrary reason instead of actually testing performance
you guys don't just need a note somewhere with some votes telling you people's thoughts, you need to be convinced yourselves with your own eyes
the only way for that is to come see
floral gust
ps. love your worlds creepers, need more oneshot people in vrc, or if there is they hide
fluid kiln
Although I appreciate the feedback, we do have applications and bots that are designed specifically to rate performance and return results. That is how worlds are scanned for avatars with poor performance when they're reported as such.
Once again, further discussion here is not only non-productive but disruptive to other conversations. Please make a post on the Canny.
pastel storm
"applications and bots"
bro
log into the game
on quest
use a public 5k
use one of my 15k
look with your mark II eye balls
i understand that being unreasonable to do every time for every avatar
but bro
fluid kiln
I wasn't precisely clear with my post before, so I'll make it more clear: Please either make a post on the Canny and stop the discussion here, or you'll be forcing me to take moderation action here on the Discord. You're disrupting other conversations in a development channel with a non-productive topic.
neon otter
sigh
I tried combining and it's just being a pain, I need sleep
shy pike
@neon otter if you want to try something new, you can always try something like this https://www.patreon.com/posts/non-gif-version-8043700
in blender, its, "project from view" while in ortho front view
neon otter
well the material combiner . . . isn't see my material at all
and I just, was hoping this would be an easy process 😪
full gazelle
Is there ever gonna be a transparent shader for the quest or is it too much for it to handle?
neon otter
This is what I currently got
Am I doin something wrong?
full gazelle
I can always edit the texture, but having a transparent shader would be nice
shy pike
@full gazelle on PC, cutout is pretty much free, but, on mobile gpu, its very expensive. transparent is also expensive too. there is no provided shader, for avatars, that does either
full gazelle
Isn't it because you don't have textures on your materials? @neon otter
If you make an atlas with textures in your materials it should work
But that's just me assuming things
neon otter
it's all materials, I dun really know how to work with textures
neon otter
goodness this is just frustrating, I'm gonna get some sleep 👋
I guess i'll settle for a world being oculus quest with pc avatars, just saying showing that is not helpful, there is probably a few more step in there and I don't know what I'm doing. I've created textures, still nothing. I don't know what steps you did to get a combined image, or where those tabs or selections in the first image even are
viscid bloom
So, does anyone have a legend of Zelda "Link" avatar yet? Only one I have from Zelda is theask sales man from Majora's mask
pastel storm
Ye it’s pretty nice
pastel storm
is it OK to post a canny link here for the issue discussed earlier?
pastel storm
i didn't get a response but i think it's worth sharing to let anyone who was interested earlier know: https://vrchat.canny.io/feature-requests/p/quest-avatar-limits
odd compass
I don't know if this is the right channel for this but I thought about making some of my models Quest compatible, which I did and they're well within performance marks but I get this error as soon as I hit Upload?
Any ideas?
long talon
any errors in the console tab?
odd compass
sec
ApiFile file_b046a1fe-b2ca-4489-a094-a5dc27708405: Error: Failed to optimize file for upload.
Not supported on ANDROID platform.
UnityEngine.Debug:LogError(Object)
VRC.Core.ApiFileHelper:Error(OnFileOpError, ApiFile, String, String) (at Assets/VRCSDK/Dependencies/VRChat/Scripts/ApiFileHelper.cs:1425)
VRC.Core.<UploadFile>c__AnonStoreyA:<>m__5(String) (at Assets/VRCSDK/Dependencies/VRChat/Scripts/ApiFileHelper.cs:327)
VRC.Core.<CreateOptimizedFileInternal>c__Iterator1:MoveNext() (at Assets/VRCSDK/Dependencies/VRChat/Scripts/ApiFileHelper.cs:1206)
UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine:InvokeMoveNext(IEnumerator, IntPtr)
long talon
your vrchat sdk is up to date?
odd compass
Let me check
winter frigate
somebody told me this in a comment on a video i made about uploading avatars for quest
long talon
"inactive meshes will be counted towards total poly count eventually" -Tupper, I think
also, didnt you make the troll tutorial?
winter frigate
if you cant read it it says animations work, hand emotes are triggered secondary meshes are fine... i thought i read we aren't supposed to have those on quest avatars though.. was i wrong to tell people not to use these?
long talon
animations are fully supported
winter frigate
i made two obvious meme tutorials and two real ones
long talon
but it's recommended to bake additional objects into the main mesh
and set them up as blend shapes
winter frigate
ok animation overrides with shape keys work but not actual animations right?
long talon
as long as you're within the other limits, animations work. so yeah, no additional meshes, materials, animators, particle emitters, lights.
but technically
the guideline says 1-2 meshes/drawcalls
recommends 1
so you CAN use an extra thing
winter frigate
eh id rather tell people 1 is all thats allowed than if thats the recommendation
long talon
its just better not to if not needed
winter frigate
yeah
long talon
basically, if you really need the object to be detached from you, use a second mesh
otherwise always bake
winter frigate
ok cool
long talon
my bad my bad
"You should only ever have one Skinned Mesh Renderer on your avatar. Any accessories or additions to your avatar should be done in 3D editing software like Blender, and merged into the original mesh. Any animations or movement should be handled via shape keys or bones."
"You should be aiming for 1 material on your avatar, although having 2 in cases where you need a different shader variant may be permissible."
mixed up meshes and materials
its 9am, havent slept in probably too long
winter frigate
ok i dont think i said anything wrong then
ill specify that shape key animation overrides work
thats more of an omission than misinformation
that i didnt mention that
long talon
yeah
but yeah, obviously blendshape animations work, otherwise you couldn't even make avatars blink.
winter frigate
i just added this to the first line in my description
*Animation overrides work for blendshapes (and visemes, etc)!!!*
I think that takes care of it lol
winter frigate
thanks for the help that also allows me to add a little more to my models
i would but they cancelled annotations on youtube
odd compass
What are the supported shaders for Quest?
long talon
avatars can only use shaders in the VRChat/Mobile category, worlds can use any shader within reason.
for anime and cartoon models, the toonlit shader is recommended, it looks slightly weird inside the editor, but fine on Quest.
odd compass
That's odd, cause I'm getting this message.
long talon
switch to VRChat > Mobile > Diffuse
long talon
also, lol that exact 5k
odd compass
of course 😄
winter frigate
perfectly balanced
blazing meteor
Triggered secondary meshes via hand emotes work on Quest. is this something that is discouraged? The uploader does not stop it at all.
hushed wedge
Supposedly it's discouraged. Using shape keys to trigger it instead (having it on the same mesh) results in more polys but less drawcalls
As long as it's on the same material of course
Quest avatars really oughta be 1 material
But for a gesture-activated object it's not quite as bad since it won't be on all the time.
blazing meteor
well it's an identical material but it was on a different mesh render
using a different part of the same atlas
I guess it could be a shape key but then i need another bone
hushed wedge
I don't actually know how that's handled, but I think it's still two drawcalls
You only need another bone if you intend to animate it
Otherwise you might as well just weight it to the hand
blazing meteor
I guess that conveniently also forces me to include it in the total try count 😛
long talon
and now I just had ideas for a working gun on Quest with bullet animation controlled with bones
outer tide
question does any of the mobile shaders support the ability to turn off backface culling or is that to costly for mobile
long talon
I believe it's too costly
they'd have it on otherwise
just duplicate and flip ¯_(ツ)_/¯
you can go over 5k within reason if required
outer tide
may have to then
still got around 3,500 tri to work with
dry zealot
no need to have more then 10k in my opinion
dry zealot
8k 😦
like half of the tri are on the head
spiky hair and all double sided mesh since there is no backside shader
cyan spoke
Mind posting the wireframe?
dry zealot
cyan spoke
Body seems to have a good amount of triangles, maybe something can be cut away but it looks fine
Face of course is the main culprit and can be reduced a lot
But you'll have to recreate visemes from scratch so unless you know how to do it, you'll be without them
Toes look a bit too dense... They could be simplified I believe
dry zealot
I can cut the tri of the face half and we wouldnt notice
cyan spoke
Anime faces are mostly flat. If you reduce that and notice too much difference, then you are removingf triangles wrong
I mean of course it will look simpler but it will still look very good. If it looks crap, there's another kind of problem
dry zealot
the culprit is the hair to be honest
cyan spoke
Yeah these are very dense too
dry zealot
cyan spoke
Ouch, indeed.
With some manual work these can be easily reduced to almost half anyways
You'll have to retopo manually and reassign UVs
dry zealot
cyan spoke
insert surprised pikachu meme here
cyan spoke
Yep indeed
The first guy who comes out with a Quest optimized default MMD avatar plus clothing and items, will be the absolute winner of this time
long talon
holy shit aev was gonna ask you the other day if you were gonna get quest ready
hot damn
white seal
Pretty happy with how well it came out
long talon
the icon for vrchat quest is finally accurately depicting that version of the game
white seal
lol
I had a previous upload of it for testing, but it wasn't remotely acceptable for a good Quest avatar
This is definitely good
queen moth
Do the mobile shaders support texture alpha? Wanted to keep the translucent lens on my avatar's glasses if it's possible
long talon
no transparency or cutout for avatars
pastel storm
oof, aev raising the bar back to blender >.<
queen moth
Alright, thanks for the info!
cyan spoke
Good job Aev, looks great!
viscid bloom
Hello other @queen moth
cyan spoke
I found an avatar online with transparent glass lenses, did they use the Particle shader maybe?
spring halo
Aev you can shave off a bit more polys by deleting the ears under the hat since you're keeping it
viscid bloom
Just found an avatar that can go invisible on the quest. It was 7k poly
long talon
7k is fine
oh god tempo, youre gonna get aev down to like 1k poly, still looking the same.
we're gonna have Aev on PS1
viscid bloom
I am still hoping to come across a good link, midna, and male character model that just clicks for me
dry zealot
you like big guy
craggy glacier
for you
viscid bloom
Just an average dude, maybe something cool about him
dry zealot
Young,old,mature,innocence
Give more
Go on my map. Kinds raid avatar. There is a vampire in jacket. You might like it
outer tide
Is there any less intensive way to mimic ambient occlusion on mobile or is there no hope for that at all
outer tide
I can't do either of those with the way I uved it
cyan spoke
Actually also Blender let you handpaint on the model if I remember correctly
Then there's no way
Not until vertex color shaders are supported, in that case you can bake it in the vertex colors
outer tide
Will just have to wait then for that and use a better shader on the pc version of the avatar.
Thanks
cyan spoke
No problem!
distant nymph
@cyan spoke https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/quest-content-limitations several of the vrchat provided quest shaders support vertex colors
viscid bloom
@dry zealot I think I was on your map complementing that vampire lol. I'm looking for something that's a young adult, normal height, dude, maybe mixed with dragon anime boi is alright
amber crater
Hey guys. I'll be uploading my first avatar soon. 6500 poly, ran the thing through Mixamo, Tagged the correct parent as Chest, Upper chest is left blank. Currently no texture and just a basic material on it. Are there any common pitfalls I might run into and need to be aware of?
I've gone through the tutorials and things, but since I can't really test it out, I'm not sure what I can do aside from wait.
Just checking to see if there's anything super obvious I missed.
If anything, I'll run into animation problems, I assume, since I didn't do much in the way of actual work there
dry zealot
that was fast
cyan spoke
@distant nymph ah cool, I didn't see the updated documentation. In this case @outer tide you can use vertex colors for the AO
austere jay
Can I use the legacy shader for quest avatars ??
shrewd fog
You can only use the Shaders under VRChat/Mobile on Quest avatars. For more info check out
https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/quest-content-limitations
viscid bloom
It was your world I met you in, I use that vampire half the time now
outer tide
Oh cool, will have to try them out later then
Again thanks
iron raptor
Just finished my avatar for quest 😄
outer tide
Really should of used vertex painting more before because for what it does it is pretty good coinciding the whole coat is 1 white texture with no shadow.
Again thanks for reminding me it existed and can be used on quest.
mossy glacier
is it still not possible to use semi-transparent textures for quest avatars?
long talon
nop, no transparency or cutout
prime imp
@iron raptor Did you texture the model with shadows yourself or use something like ao baking? I love the look of the shading.
iron raptor
@prime imp I drew in some soft shadows on the pants, armpits, wrists, neck, and face to because on quest version it’s completely flat lit so it makes it look a lot nicer.
Some good ol photoshop painting on the UVs
cyan spoke
Hand painting the model is so cool
twin pebble
question about quest avatars. If we don't meet requirements does the server just send a "grey robot"
because i may have 2 materials
long talon
2 materials is okay in certain circumstances
we have poly space for about 10 avatars if a world is 50k poly and each avatar is 5k poly
but quite a bit more in drawcalls
even if a world uses 50 drawcalls hitting the max
you're still left with another 50 drawcalls according to Oculus' Android recommendations
neon otter
I would suggest to not use material combiner when trying to optimize your avatar. Found an Atlas Texture add-on that's even simple and works. This website had a walkthough of how to do it too https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/66710/is-this-workflow-for-texture-atlas-ok It reduced my material count from 10 to 1 material
long talon
I 200% dont understand fuckall what youre going on about, MatCombiner has always done a fantastic job for me.
neon otter
I tried using it and it just doesn't work
pastel delta
the cats mat combiner is pretty bad
neon otter
found this other addon and I can get things done in 4 steps. I couldn't find a guide or anything on how to even use MatCombiner
pastel delta
it trashes your texture quality immensely
neon otter
the cats matcombiner wouldn't even reconize my materials
twin pebble
finishing up the visemes on my quest version of the shiba inu avatar
im happy i got the nose to wrinkle durring "sniff" on this model
look at that angry boi
tawdry fjord
viscid bloom
It's so neat to check this channel and see the different stages of people's creations, and then to randomly happen upon them in VRchat. It's really cool
modest obsidian
I uploaded this model fine to quest but on PC I get this error
And I don't know what to do to fix it or if I can do anything
long talon
iron raptor
All the mat combiner does is stack the UV shells of identical materials so that you don’t need multiple materials for two of the same mesh. It can be useful for a MMD model or something with like 12 materials but doesn’t do fuckall if there’s like 2 or 3 materials
twin pebble
"ha. bah dah gah."
iron raptor
Cause I’m at 9999 rn I could probs take the hair down a notch
modest obsidian
this makes little to know sense to me. its how to fix the material combiner on cats in blender
iron raptor
this tutorial can walk you through atlasing it’s a lot more material efficient than the material combiner
https://youtu.be/0cSesu_zkQQ mb it’s this one
fluid kiln
Please read the description in that video, I left out a very important step at the end D:
Shotariya's combiner shouldn't lose resolution, as it simply puts the images back side-by-side. however, if your texture isn't a power of 2 resolution, Unity's import settings will cause it to scale down oddly
It also can be odd when working with models with absolutely awful initial materials (in other words, most MMDs)
hushed wedge
I made my own texture atlas tutorial as well, although keep in mind some of the advice given there is not recommended for mobile (i.e. 4k atlases are too big for mobile)
fluid kiln
yeah, the numbers given in that guide are irrelevant for Quest. You should never have a 4k atlas on Quest
1k is what you should be aiming for
iron raptor
If you fit your UVs together tightly enough 1k should be plenty.
hushed wedge
Well admittedly, you will probably have to sacrifice texture quality somewhere if you're not texturing it yourself
But that's fine
neon otter
Hey Tupper, I managed to reduce the material counts for my avatars by manual texture atlasing. Although I see you made a video after I finally acomplished this 🤦
but is it normal for the texture to get worse the further out you go?
far away view
close up
pastel storm
vrchat has some strong LOD settings for textures it seems like so if you're using a new lower res atlas it's possible that it's just that bad from far away
you can use nvidia inspector to force negative LOD bias and get higher res textures at all distances in vrchat, but it'd be nice if we just had ore settings
neon otter
I mean it's a 2048 by 2048 texture that the atlas made
pastel storm
yeah, i have a big 4kx4k texture image on a wall in my world and it's very noticably blurry even at several arm lengths because that's how extreme the LOD settings are
neon otter
and since my voxel makin is weird this is how it turned out
twin pebble
i forgotten how much i hate UV unwrapping. ..ugh
iron tendon
try making your textures unfiltered
neon otter
is there a way to not have this getting worse as you go out? I not quite sure how to fix textures
just a tad bit of a noob with no texturing knowledge
fluid kiln
@neon otter That looks like mipmapping weirdness? I also had those issues with some methods of saving DDS files, if you're using that.
Also that atlas is uh
insane
haha
You could probably have a 128x128 PNG as your atlas with a few small squares of color
@twin pebble even as an amateur i'm glad to know UV wrapping is just eternally garbage
neon otter
probably could I just did a walkthough for a textureatlas addon and it produced that . . so I wasn't gonna complain
fluid kiln
I'd try using Shotariya's plugin if your materials are just diffuse colors
it will shove all the verts into the correct block and make a tiny atlas
neon otter
this was the one I tried https://github.com/BinaryPeak/blender-texture-atlas
and this had a walkthrough of how to use it https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/66710/is-this-workflow-for-texture-atlas-ok
I tried using that material combiner and it's just confusing and I couldn't seem to find any help online either
and anything I did find the overlay was different for them. Like where it would say create atlas in cats plugin mine said save atlas. And it would just never get my list of materials (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Also when I try to use the material combiner itself and I choose a material, it just doesn't show up
neon otter
what do I do, to make things better?
full gazelle
Quest players are telling me that they see one of my quest models all black
dry zealot
At some point i just use photoshop and put all the texture on one and rescale the uv in blender
dry zealot
In blender delete the material and make a new one maybe
neon otter
ok, I messed with the texture import settings in unity and switching it from default, in the inspector, to anything else seems to have stopped the weird mess it makes from afar
neon otter
Does PC and Quest avatars need to be exactly the same like with worlds?
The difference I have atm, is one has less materials and one has more. With the less one built towards quest, but I'm also doing cross compatibility
dry zealot
You can upload a cube if you want for the quest with the same id
pastel storm
there needs to be certain bones tat match to avoid issues with IK i think
otherwise they can be very different
you can reduce bone count quite a bit since quest doesn't have dynamic bones, so consider at least removing those extra ones
iron raptor
I got it down to 6999 tris 👏 😎
long talon
you're most likely within limits now yay
pastel delta
i hope the limit will be 8.5k and not 7.5k 👀 cant get any lower without destroying face/blendshapes, to much of a noob .-.
pastel delta
what do you mean?
long talon
I got down to 4.5k easy
pastel delta
good for you
pastel delta
i dont know how to do that because I only know some blender basics and dont have much time for that
i just cleaned up my mesh and decimated it
atleast quest user can interact with me (for now)
cyan spoke
It's kinda half interaction if they can't see your expression though. I suggest investing some time in learning blendshapes... Worth it.
Also, not as hard as it sounds
pastel delta
mmd come with blendshapes
id rather have 8.5k polys instead of 7.5k polys but no blendshapes and me having to recreate them from scratch
well if the limit will be 7.5k~ its not my problem anyway, its the quest users beeing at an disadvantage so
¯_(ツ)_/¯
gusty patio
Hmm. Even if it's easy and takes an hour it's still a pain in the ass.
cyan spoke
With this mindset you may just ignore doing the Quest version anyways.
shut orchid
Just separate the parts that are affected by blend shapes, decimate the rest and remerge
That is the F.U.C.K method
Short for Fast Unrestricting Clean K
cyan spoke
its the quest users beeing at an disadvantage
That's because the creator wants to put them at disvantage. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
pastel delta
thats what I did baka
left the face intact with blendshapes
@cyan spoke thats the stupidest mindset, good job on that one
atleast I put in a little effort into making THEIR experiences better, I could have done nothing at all, glad people like you exist, disgusting
cyan spoke
Care to explain?
shut orchid
cyan spoke
The answer is exactly in the thing you just wrote. The experience of a single player depends by other players. It their experience is bad, it's your fault.
cyan spoke
Oh now where's the "omegalul" emote when it's needed....
You clearly don't know how videogames are made, don't you. Even less with hardware.
It's fine anyways
To each its own priorities
pastel delta
"You clearly don't know how videogames are made, don't you." alright dude, made me laugh, been making games since 5 years now but yeah, its fine anyways
wish I could pin your comment
"if their experience is bad, it's your fault." 😂
cyan spoke
Personally I've been working fulltime in the game industry since 2011
pastel delta
but yeah, thanks for reminding me that most people are like you , i wont give a shit about quest anymore, let them see the grey boy
why should I waste my time
in the end its my responsibility
cyan spoke
I know a thing or two about that, but anyways. If you don't have time or will to squeeze some blendshapes in a lowpoly avatar, how can be a developer's fault?
pastel delta
seperate the platform
there is a reason there arent many mobile & vr crossplay games
dont you think
cyan spoke
Can you list those?
pastel delta
no, thats why i said "there arent many"
because i dont know any , its the devs fault for doing cross play ,and then your fault for putting the fault that the mobile users can not see desktop avatars on the desktop users
if any other big dev would do something like that, the outrage would be immense
as a "fulltime" dev since 2011 you should know that but oh well
not every dev is a good one, maybe you should rethink your career choices
cyan spoke
Now let's pin that : D
pastel delta
if you cant understand a simple thought process like that
cyan spoke
Well this is a very elaborate explanation for you not having the will to learn blendshapes! I'd stick that to my desk
We can stop here, this argument became pointless since the second sentence
Good luck with your carreer!
pastel delta
no one second
shut orchid
🍿
pastel delta
im asking some more knowledgeable gamedevs what they think of this, who knows maybe i am completely wrong with my opinon
cyan spoke
No problem with that. My point is that, since VRC runs basically only on user-made assets, it' up to asset creators to run the game fine and to make a good experience for everyone
I support the choice to go cross-platform because this is a global chatroom, it needs to be as open as possible- closing that, would be like keeping separated the Android and iOS version of WhatsApp
(stupid example but I think the idea is there)
pastel delta
pretty much everyone agrees with me, you are wrong , thats it, would love to see some of your published games
cyan spoke
pretty much everyone agrees with me, you are wrong
Yeah ok, links? Source? Something?
Latest works have been Pocket Rush (iOS, Android) and Stayin Alive (PC, Mac)
I've only made the programming part anyways, I'm not officially a graphic artist
Game design was not mine too
pastel delta
shit
its either that or no vrchat at all
thats what they get when the install the game
its not my responsibility to provide a good experience for them
cyan spoke
It's your idea and your peer's, can't argue with that
cyan spoke
Four people don't make a fact, but ok
pastel delta
It is not the players responsibility to make sure others have a good experience
lmao
whatever dude
cyan spoke
I was just explaining my view for this and you just vented out towards me
pastel delta
i explained why your view was wrong
cyan spoke
It is not the players responsibility to make sure others have a good experience
Tbh I'd ask <@&378256373701410817> what they think about this
Sorry for the ping, but I believe this is a good point to discuss about (but I'm sorry, we're flooding the wrong channel anyways)
pastel delta
its the players responsibility to NOT make others experience a bad one, not the opposite (dont blast annoying music, harass etc)
cyan spoke
That's a valid point. But I'd still classify communication gaps as bad experience
white seal
Please don't ping the team for opinions on things like this at 3AM 
cyan spoke
Sorry : / 11:46AM here...
white seal
If there's a moderation issue, which it seems like this is creeping into, pinging the mods is fine
Since I'm here, I'll say that I respect someone who takes the time to try making a Quest version of their avatar even if it isn't perfect, as long as it's not bad in a way that hurts performance more than the placeholder would have
Without being a skilled 3D artist, decimating is far more realistic of an option compared to retopology, and decimation will ruin blendshapes
Remaking blendshapes is not easy, and I wouldn't say they're a requirement to even bother with making a Quest version of an avatar
What someone uploads as their avatar is their work, and if they want to make a Quest version that isn't perfect, but represents them better than a grey robot, I think that's rad
cyan spoke
Thanks for the opinion, and sorry again for waking you up
long talon
Oh, I missed some juicy bits while sleeping, fully agree with Aev.
I've told people I was perfectly fine with them uploading a quad with a png screenshot fo their avatar for Quest if that's what they were comfortable doing.
shut orchid
Nah kinami is right, because it's a fact
tawdry fjord
A handful of my old avatars are "quest ready" but i dont make anything public normally
cyan spoke
I was perfectly fine with them uploading a quad with a png screenshot fo their avatar for Quest
Lol I remember that, actually I'm fine with that too but unfortunately the argument deviated into something else very quickly
long talon
I had to read the thread like 3 times to get the whole thing
I shall end this entire discussion with Tupper's own words.
tawdry fjord
Nani
long talon
"Compared to VRChat PC (where freedom of creation is paramount), VRChat Quest requires a heavier hand to ensure that creating optimized content is the focus. Check out our documentation link below for more details."
That's the entire extent of this whole argument.
shut orchid
Tuppers heavy hand 
viscid bloom
Took me a few times too.
twin pebble
@cyan spoke @pastel delta this was a good read and I'm laughing all the way at this argument.
pikapetey uses DAB! And blast his way optimizing characters for early mobile gaming 1000 polys each
cyan spoke
Lol, I actually started making models in 2007 or so, during J2ME era
1000 was almost mid-poly back then : D
NDS era indeed
twin pebble
@cyan spoke the quest can easily handle more than vrchat allows..... but... Unity is shut at optimization in the engine side
Just have the devs code their own engine for the quest. 
pastel delta
"Unity is shut at optimization in the engine side" 😂
thats not wrong, but the devs are far far away from utilizing most of unitys optimization methods for vrchat, especially quest
upgrading to 2018 lts would help, using the job system, changing to ecs etc
so just be quiet and go DAB! some more
twin pebble
Nah I have to prepare mobile edge computing of RTX in the 5G sphere. 
pastel delta
were using big buzzwords that make no sense together now?
twin pebble
No
twin pebble
It's being deployed. 😎 👉 👉
pastel delta
Nice
long talon
Just run VRChat in Stadia, make Stadia in VR, VRChat is now available lag-free from the cloud to everyone. we'll use on-device frame prediction algorithms to make up for network latency.
cyan spoke
inb4 Stadia plays for you
"We wanted to create good prediction algos but we accidentally created the best videogame AI"
twin pebble
@cyan spoke "there are no other players on vrchat stadia. Only highly sophisticated NPCs. All your friends suddenly have the new iphone. Tell stories of which products helped them the most."
Virtual Truman show.
cyan spoke
You soon discover you're not playing Stadia, but Stadia is playing with you
twin pebble
stadia is love
stadia is life
cyan spoke
The Orwell saga evolves and continues
twin pebble
As long as I continue to get head pats.
viscid bloom
The truth that everything we know is just a simulation by a Google AI comes out soon after. Nothing is the same
pastel delta
Im just a chat bot.
long talon
chrome girder
Tried out @dry zealot's avatars on the Quest and I'm impressed with what can be done with so little polys. 🤷
hushed wedge
They all have a particular look about them though, no offense
Like no long hair, ever
Although if the limit ends up being 6000 tris, you could probably fit long hair into it
dry zealot
I try to diversify the selection. Am going to upload some monster or more male
viscid bloom
Went back to your world and picked up the bigger guy there. I like his face @dry zealot
dry zealot
I put the sound . I like big boy(tictoc meme) on the pc version
dry zealot
I dont want stiff hair so i chose short one
hushed wedge
Yeah fair enough
cobalt wyvern
I need good Boku No Hero Avatars.
long talon
This TDA of Uraraka is pretty good, lowpoly with great topo already, so bringing it down to quest levels would be rather easy, now, about making the model NOT look like TDA..... https://bocchi.is-pretty.cool/2G4ScTr.png
@cobalt wyvern
chrome girder
@long talon That looks lovely. 😃
pastel storm
21k polys so it should be easy for almost anyone even with just removing occluded meshes and decimating
pastel storm
5k is harder but under 10k is no problem
long talon
5-7.5k is like, baby ez
pastel storm
really wish we had double sided shaders though
most people here don't make models, they fix/work on existing ones to get them optimized
long talon
with double sided, thing is, modern computers smart
they dont render non visible triangles
hence why imo we should be able to get away with a doublesided shader
devs plz
would make lowpoly work even easier
cobalt wyvern
F
pastel storm
much easier
oh? you want your long hair visible from both the front and back? too bad!
long talon
woah, 18.5k just removing extraneous meshes
long talon
I'm prolly gonna finish this tbh
long talon
I'm still finding useless meshes
Im down to 17,947
I swear to god I'll get down to 10k before I actually have to decimate...
ah yes, down to the essentials https://bocchi.is-pretty.cool/APs9SMv.png
17,640
cobalt wyvern
Lol
long talon
16,730
dry zealot
i got more then 500 by deleting most of the arms and block the entrance with a place
still try to reduce poly count every time I add/fix something on model
long talon
nah
Never even watched MHA
I just saw you ask for boku no hero avas
so I was like "imma try one"
long talon
The PC version is gonna be 16220 poly
cobalt wyvern
Cool
long talon
brb while I celebrate insane optimization with some beer
long talon
save fingers is the stupidest thing ever made https://bocchi.is-pretty.cool/9moh62i.png
cobalt wyvern
Eeeeeeeee
cyan spoke
Isn’t there yet a book called “The Joy of Rigging”?
cyan spoke
Living on the edge can be fun, at times
Like, manually rigging a character without mirroring... aaaaah...
long talon
down to 12,778
proven monolith
Where's the new standard lite shader? for me it isn't even in the new unity package.
iron raptor
When your fingers have more polys than your characters arm
shrewd fog
iron raptor
So its a more performance friendly version of unity’s standard shader?
proven monolith
It's just not there for me, weird
dry zealot
forgot to delete that material lol
long talon
oh god thats terrifying
cobalt wyvern
Holy shite
iron raptor
The all seeing eyes O-O
fringe oriole
I don’t seem to understand how I’m able to upload a cross platform avatar. It’s either I upload it for PC first and the sdk won’t let me upload it again when I switch it to android. Or upload to android and can’t seem to make it cross platform
this hurts my b r a i n
pastel storm
what does the SDK say when it doesnt let you upload again for android?
iron raptor
Make sure your material uses a mobile shader otherwise it won’t let you upload
You should be able to upload it on PC/Mac/Linux then switch builds to android and upload it the same way as long as you’re avatar is compatible
And make sure it’s the same scene
cobalt wyvern
Welp
fringe oriole
I guess I can try to explain more in depth.
When uploading an avatar to the PC platform it would allow me. Beforehand Iv already removed the dynamic bones. Once I switched it to android and pull up the build control panel, it doesn’t show anything. Not a warning telling me that I’m over the poly limit, not a button to let me publish it.
Now when uploading it to the quest first, it works and everything. But in short terms when I switch it to Pc and uploads, it says as a Quest version. At least in my attempts.
my brain h u r t s
What I’m trying to do is make it cross platform. Where both PC and Quest can see it. Not trying to make my avatars exclusively to Quest
next trench
Might be a bug Waffle. I've been seeing the same thing with the current SDK, certain avatars don't have the build/publish or stat upload version at all. (Affects avatars randomly, some seem to work and some don't even previously uploaded scenes)
fringe oriole
Mm, this is so sad. Can we get a despacito in the chat.
Feels like I’ve spent pointless hours
dry zealot
little 5k boy
magic mango
how can make quest avatars?
tender summit
@Erine#7593 you go into the build setting in unity and select android, if u don't have it, download the android pack from unity, Ps not build setting for the SDK but I unity. Should be in the uper left corner
vocal cobalt
If anyone has any cross platform avatars they would like to be published in a world, PM me. I'm looking for some great avatars to fill up these pedestals I have in my world before I push it to the public. There will be proper credits for people as well on a billboard.
cobalt wyvern
@vocal cobalt
iron raptor
There’s probably a lot of 3DS models that are around 5000 polys 🤔
Like monster hunter and kid icarus
jagged sequoia
also the Pokemon character models are in that polygon budget
olive hornet
I had a question if anyone can answer, can you add effects to spawn weapons on custom quest avatars and also how long do i have to wait until I can build and publish my avatar?
long talon
- make sure youre using a vrchat account not oculus or steam
- just play till you become new user
its not time based
olive hornet
oh
i have played though so do i have to run vrchat again to make it work since i havent used it since i made my sdk setup?
long talon
wat
olive hornet
I played vrchat before i wanted to publish a new avatar, do i have to play it again to be able to publish the avatar?
twin pebble
@vocal cobalt I will have one soon i would like to share publicly. its one of my shibas
twin pebble
@olive hornet yes
twin pebble
@olive hornet thanks. you know me from youtube or VRchat?
olive hornet
Youtube
twin pebble
@olive hornet ah cool, yeah i've been dabbleing with character animation in the VR sphere. hence no streaming animating on my channel in a while.
olive hornet
Thats cool I hope it works out for you
twin pebble
@olive hornet i'd say it has. the challenge started to get a little stale, but then the quest came out. Doing the same things but highly optimizing it is fun.
olive hornet
I got the quest and only today i found out you can add custom avatars to vrchat, I had to re teach myself how to set up the sdk and all that stuff
Also if you know, can you add gesture effects on the quest?
long talon
yes animations work
olive hornet
oh cool
twin pebble
@olive hornet 🤔 I think you can. but my advice would to see how they did things with the N64 especially light rays. They used mesh. but apparently transparency is expensive so you have to find clever tricks what you can do
random badge
Glad to see more quest users getting interested in contributing to the content sphere
cobalt wyvern
Yo
How do I upload a PC avatar and have it work with quest, then put it in a world?
How do I even make a world? Sorry I'm stoopid
delicate basalt
first, just switch Unity's build platform to Android
then if you build and publish with the VRC SDK like usual, it will publish your avatar to android
as long as you publish it on the same blueprint ID, your avatar will become cross-platform
cobalt wyvern
O
delicate basalt
second, just make a normal VRC world and put down an avatar pedastel with your avatar's blueprint ID in it
olive hornet
How long does it take to rank up so i can upload custom avatars?
I have added a bunch of friends but nothing has happened yet
viscid bloom
I use an oculus account for vrchat. Why is that bad?
carmine kestrel
@viscid bloom You can't upload user created content without a VRChat account
viscid bloom
Well. Guess there goes my chances of getting into making stuff
carmine kestrel
You can merge oculus and vrchat accounts, I think
Trust, rank, friends and whatnot carry over
viscid bloom
How do I go about that?
carmine kestrel
Make a vrchat account and log in on the website, there are instructions on the merge tab
topaz plume
You can’t merge oculus accounts yet, that feature is still being worked on
carmine kestrel
oh
wait, then why does the website say you can?
the account link page mentions both steam and oculus accounts
fluid kiln
because it is half implemented and we turned that part on too early, said "welp, oops", and left it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
twin pebble
@fluid kiln. Goddammit tupper... (Insert senfield music and laugh track)
full gazelle
So supposedly quest models are not allowed to have particles, audio, dynamic bones. But I've seen a bunch of quest players using them. So is it allowed now? I even asked the quest players if they could hear audio coming from their animation or see their particles and they said yes
lapis fractal
wait vr chats on quest now
full gazelle
Oh and these models were public. I just wanna know if it's ok to upload models with particles and audios since other creators are doing it
lapis fractal
time to kill quest users
velvet portal
yes its okay
full gazelle
I don't wanna sound like the guy that says"My friends are going to the party so why is that I can't go?"
velvet portal
i think
full gazelle
But y'know
velvet portal
my friend personal quest avatar is 50k polys
she said it works fine with quest
just make sure it not too much dynamic boens or anything
or over do it with effects, particles, etc
so give it try!
pastel storm
it won't let you upload to quest with dynamic bones but i haven't tried doing audio or particles
i think you're limited on particles but that you couldn't do sound
velvet portal
is dynamic bones just for hair and such @pastel storm
jagged sequoia
question what would be the best way to share an a custom quest avatar with a friend who just got vrchat on the quest as it's going to be a while before they can upload themselves
distant nymph
if they're not new user yet you'd need to make the avatar public and have them clone it off you
jagged sequoia
yeah that sounds like a good approach saves me having to make a cross compatible world just to make a pedestal
distant nymph
well also visitors can't wear avatars on pedestals in non-public worlds
but they can clone avatars
jagged sequoia
did not know that thanks for the info
so how does one clone a publicly-available avatar so I can tell my friends how to do it
distant nymph
open quick menu, click the person wearing the avatar, click the clone button on the right
the person being cloned from need to have "allow avatar cloning" on in the settings (it's on by default)
jagged sequoia
any of y'all with oculus quests mind helping me if my cross-compatible avatar works correctly as I don't own a quest to test
never mind my task was successful
pastel storm
yes it updates
velvet portal
lol uhm
hushed wedge
k
twin pebble
velvet portal
niceeeee!!
chrome girder
Bought a model and published my first avatar. I didn't do much, but it was nice to learn how the cross-platform works. Just have to learn how to customize things and I'll be happy. 😃
velvet portal
I dont believe in buying models but congrats
twin pebble
ohhh....oh no
velvet portal
Lol
random badge
like you dont believe buying models exists? what do you mean you dont believe in buying models
@twin pebble great shibes, what shader are you going to use on them?
long talon
buys every avatar I can find on Booth
viscid bloom
What's wrong with supporting another artist even if you yourself create art as well? Or if you don't do art why not support an artist that you like the work of enough to display or in this case wear in a virtual setting...
hushed wedge
I'll chime in for a sec
IMO buying a premade model is a waste of money. They're often scuffed and they're also not personal. There's a plethora of good free models out there, as well as parts
If you're gonna spend money, commission an artist instead. You get a personalized and unique model.
Sorry for any double posting, Discord is acting up again. Not sure why anyone would spend money on Nitro either, given how bad their uptime is 🙃
random badge
Since when does "buying a model" mean "buying a premade scuffed model"
hushed wedge
Who said anything about MMD?
viscid bloom
Well just like you shouldn't buy bootleg art, same goes for models.
random badge
sorry.
viscid bloom
Server just went down for me for a sec there
hushed wedge
Lmao that's appropriate, I was just saying Discord was acting up.
Thought I got kicked or something and was very confused.
Anyway
viscid bloom
I was gonna say, always check what you are buying before you do. And don't let bad apples sway you from enjoying good ones. Even if you only stick to free avatars like me, show appreciation for people who make them
hushed wedge
Friends of mine have bought "VRChat ready" models that were made from scratch and came in FBX format, but the weight paints and UV's were so messed up that they had to ask for a refund.
This happened enough times that they stopped doing that altogether
One of them commissioned an artist instead, she did an amazing model for $120.
viscid bloom
I thought I was kicked as well for a second lol
random badge
i thought i was kicked too
i dont think thats means "buying models" is bad/waste of money
just means you have to look for the right shiz
hushed wedge
True. I guess I'm just spoiled considering how much good free stuff is out there. It's insane what you can find on Deviantart alone, and that's not even counting 3d.nicovideo or bowlroll, although bowlroll is very hard to search/navigate if you're not looking for a specific pre-established character.
random badge
Some people want something personal.
hushed wedge
I found some really good artists that put up top tier models up for download, for free
Bought models aren't really personal though
I see those booth models everywhere
They're no different than any other publicly available model.
random badge
Bought models can be comissioned models
hushed wedge
The barrier of entry is slightly higher, but they also get pirated and spread around a lot
random badge
or is there a distinction between the two in your opinion?
hushed wedge
Commissioned models are another thing. As I said, commissions are fine
random badge
Oh aight, fair.
hushed wedge
There's a difference between commissioning an artist for a model, or buying a premade model off of booth. The latter is not much different from downloading a free model off 3d.nicovideo
Commissioning is good, you get something personal and usually at least decent quality
twin pebble
@random badge im going to use Standard LTE
random badge
aaah alright
ive been experimenting with the mobile shaders and still cant decide which to use
hushed wedge
Standard Lite is unnecessary in a lot of cases, only if you need smoothness/metallic
Or if you need an unlit texture, but hopefully we'll get an approved Unlit Texture shader soon
random badge
yea, all the ones i got in the public avatar list are using diffuse
or diffuse bumped ?
but ive been using the matcap one recently though
random badge
i might have to mess around and see what pbr capabilities the mobile one has
twin pebble
Hey it's done! can't wait to run around and interact with quest users tonight!
@unreal holly
unreal holly
oOOoOoO, it's a beauty!
twin pebble
Stats: 4,354 polys,
1 material node
2 mesh nodes
full body tracking ready
full range of motions with gestures, it will mimic my PC avatar.
random badge
very goodddee
viscid bloom
Nice
I'm probably gonna hop on tonight as well. Been kind of turned off after my last interaction with some PC users, they were very rude about quest and blah blah blah. Blocked them but ugh
twin pebble
i will need a quest users to tell me if it works. also owo
long talon
hoping you can meet me
as a PC user, I pride myself on getting other PC users to accept Quest users and use Quest-ready avatars.
same for Nabu
viscid bloom
Well I'm a quest user so if you need someone to look at something I should be able to
pastel storm
most pc users are really nice to questlets but i've heard some horror stories yeah
twin pebble
I want to show quest users a fun tim. I don't like being ROBOT PC person to them
pastel storm
it's ok most people aren't gonna be hostile
long talon
I've met the idiots.
pastel storm
any hatred of the quest is out of lazyness
viscid bloom
I have blocked all I have met that were rude, luckily it's been less than 20
twin pebble
when i dance in the hub world. I want EVERYONE to see mah dancing. yeeahh!!
long talon
theyre the same who spend 99% of their time in private worlds with their FBT laying down with a highly unoptimized avatar with the space shaders and shit.
pastel storm
they don't wanna optimize an avatar at all, like even at any level at all, or spend any time finding one that is even
long talon
you know the ones.
twin pebble
also im very curoious to find out if my full body tracking will show up on quest
long talon
YES
long talon
yes, FBT shows up on Quest
the same IK data is sent to all clients whatever the platform.
twin pebble
hells yeah!
viscid bloom
I'm wondering that as well, what time do you think you will be on? I can hop on with my quest then
twin pebble
i have to hook him up in unity. get that all squared off. but first i need to eat.
long talon
confirmation: I've tried it myself.
viscid bloom
Oh perfect I should be just finishing up dinner by then, pst
rocky matrix
@twin pebble Fantastic job! that looks excellent!
god thats so frickin good, unbelievable poly count there.
twin pebble
Wireframe for anyone interested
golden stream
Anyone know a good world for quest avatars?
viscid bloom
I just search avatar in the world search and go to each one and look around, which I am about to hop on and do, if anyone wants a quest avatar tester add HylianGenesis and I'll try to help out
twin pebble
all hooked up and ready to go!! YAY!! im hoping it works! 🤞
random badge
👌 👌
twin pebble
DOOH!! ok whats sup? i can't figure out what it wants
hrmm.. what does this mean?
oh....oooooo.... my shiba factory script is interfearing.
HUZZAH! i wont be a grey robot to quest users anymore!!! imma gonna put on my vr gear!!
flat ether
Oh crap it's that guy from Youtube
velvet portal
lol
@twin pebble thats really cool! i hope t ogive you many pets when i get my vr ❤
twin pebble
@velvet portal im on now!! friend me my vrchat name is Pikapetey
velvet portal
@@twin pebble sureeeee !!
twin pebble
omg first footage of my shiba!! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/426932751845818388/586762714324533268/com.oculus.vrshell-20190607-203525.mp4
dry zealot
Go on kinds raid quest avatar there is a loli neko if you want
velvet portal
@twin pebble thats so coool congrats ❤ ❤ ❤
anddd @dry zealot if ur referring to me, no tyy... i dun like being a loli lol... im 19 and like mature avatars. plus my name means cozy fox not cat
keen sigil
@twin pebble Wow not bad, the visemes have not only mouth and lips forming, but it also stretches the sides of the head, and a bit pulling of the ears, this is like a real thing, well done :x
dry zealot
I might upload an adult fox guy in the near future
twin pebble
thanks!! i feel the texture is a bit to harsh of a contrast to my PC avatar. I need more tweaking. this is definatly good footage. @keen sigil @velvet portal I'd love to meet up with other quest users to see how i look. please send me footage
keen sigil
I'm not a quest avatar user but oh well :x
twin pebble
i want to push the bounderies of what is possible on quest given the limitations
dry zealot
You can do alots . Texture fake details very well
velvet portal
@twin pebble I'll have my quest...soon...2 weeks..mext month?? I dunno so sorry qq but I hope I can still see !!
tender summit
@twin pebble everyone in this chat box seem to know u from YouTube, and I don't so I might as well check u out so, what's your YouTube channel?
long talon
oh, yeah, mobile doesnt show profile connections....
tender summit
Exactly
long talon
here's a linkie https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCERV0DewlRkdr1JmLaXAKwA
tender summit
Thanks
hushed patrol
do any one have a dragon avatar or know a world to git one
viscid bloom
There is a monster hunter world world ... That has one. It's not the best but the first one I have seen which is nice
silver coral
how dose this work
velvet portal
so for making quest avatars i have sdk installed and everything but it not showing the mobile shader im suppose to use from VRCHAT only.
dry zealot
Reinstall the las one
velvet portal
re-install wha?
long talon
the most recent version of the sdk
velvet portal
2019 or 2018? im using 2019
long talon
that aint mean shit, you grabbed it from https://vrchat.net/home/download ?
should be 2019.06.04
velvet portal
alright
velvet portal
ooff wha
long talon
why are there so many materials
velvet portal
welpppp i just figured that out i could create atlas so sorry- lol
but sometimes it dont work for me so i do that
long talon
yeah, atlases are required for quest
velvet portal
ahhhh okayy
twin pebble
yeah you can't be sloppy when making stuff for quest
i will say that making avatars and content for quest require more skill
velvet portal
It's okay I got it! @twin pebble
twin pebble
More tests on my quest avatar!! im so happy how it turned out.
velvet portal
thats so nice !!! keep it up ❤ @twin pebble
chrome girder
Very nice!
foggy garnet
@twin pebble Looks amazing! I almost like the stylized low-poly look more than the regular one.
I think it's really rad how you're focusing on immersion and realism, your models are always so lifelike
glacial tusk
So, if the quest does not support dynamic bones and/or cloth, how do you guys deal with hair?
Do you just weight paint it so it doesn't clip?
pastel storm
you just ignore the clipping usually
twin pebble
@glacial tusk put a slow idle animation on the hair, have it sway as if blowing. it mimics it pretty good.,
chrome girder
Short hair helps.
glacial tusk
@twin pebble brilliant idea! I'll try that.
@chrome girder Yeah that too, but I don't want to give up on the good old miku pigtails yet.
chrome girder
Mikuuu ❤️
glacial tusk
I guess I'll try and weight paint the hair to the spine and see how that goes...
pastel storm
it's not polygons, it's that quest avatars have to be built for android.
distant nymph
the android build thing is fixable actually. hard to fix, sure, but fixable. essentially they could run builds on the server side
the bigger problem is that decimation can look really terrible if you just accept an automatic result without any hand-adjustments
same for atlasing, and swapping out shaders
pastel storm
it'd end up making almost any avatar look terrible
distant nymph
the problem is figuring out how to build an algorithm that knows where detail is needed, and where it's not
if someone comes up with an auto-decimator that can cut from like 35k to 5k with minimal quality loss, then the rest can probably be solved and produce an okay-ish-looking result
pastel storm
some relax restrictions on quest + time will be enough to get a significant majority of avatars in use in the future to be compatible
distant nymph
but speaking from doing this manually - I did a lot of things that an automatic decimator wouldn't. Deleting geometry (hair strands), taking a two-sided hair mesh and deleting the sides to make it flat, deleting hidden geometry, etc etc
oh and taking care to preserve facial loop structure too
pastel storm
removing doubles without breaking 2 sided meshes can be a problem too
red bay
is this oculus quest?
distant nymph
Yep. Also, knowing which meshes should be duplicated for single sided rendering
quasi bronze
pastel storm
you're not a high enough rank to upload avatars yet
play the game some more, make more friends, etc
simple tangle
I’m been looking for a good avatar for along time anyone have some that wanna share
noble axle
is there requirements that i need to get or something?
simple tangle
I think you need to be a certain rank or something
noble axle
yeah its weird I couldn't find what the rank was or what the requirements were. its just we'll let ya know
pastel storm
@noble axle Becoming verified by the trust system is based on reaching a not time based trust score, which's exact algorithm is unknown to prevent exploitation.
You presumably need to play the game in a normal manner with your VRChat account, walking around, meeting people and also making some friends. Idling won't help.
According to many responses in this discord, a rough estimate would be 20-40 hours, but big exceptions are possible.
Make sure you are not using a steam or oculus account because those can not be verified and continue playing the game until you get a notification or e-mail.
http://help.vrchat.com/kb/article/27-why-cant-i-upload-avatars-or-worlds-yet
velvet portal
is anyone ood at making quest avatars like pc? i need some help honesly
pastel delta
when are we going the definite infos for quest avatar retrictions, will it be 7k, 7.5k polys? etc
Tupper said ~3-4 days ago its ready to be told, so far we got nothing
twin pebble
OK this is fun. Pictured is quest version vs pc version
velvet portal
@twin pebble tjays soo cooooll oh my god
velvet portal
@twin pebble can you teach me the avatars ways, when i make my avatar do i have to decimate manually? cus i can nver get m ystuff green in unityy ahhh
twin pebble
@velvet portal the information you seek lies in this book. https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Staring-Facial-Modeling-Animation/dp/0470609907
sharp spear
Good job on that Petey; looks fun to work on
sharp spear
Industry resource books are expensive dood
velvet portal
saddie
twin pebble
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Polycount here is industry resources
key words you need to research and learn
1 Re-topologizeing
2 Edge Loop theory 3d modeling
3 Low poly game art asset creation
4 rigging for motion capture
I do not reccomened searching for any vrchat specific tutorials. a lot of those have misinformation in them.
sharp spear
The VRChat tutorial thing; dead on
Seem to be people who design tutorials around all they came to understand to get a VRChat-specific result, versus a more universal basis for how to work with the toolset -then applying that on your own terms to VRChat.
twin pebble
if you have a better foundation of knowlege, it's easier to diagnose issues when things go wrong.
sharp spear
ie proper practice is more often in videos that aren't narrowing down the focus to VRC
- your understanding scales with what you're working around for it
twin pebble
and it's a lot of work. i know quest is scoffed and looked down upon but making assets for it is like 10X the work
sharp spear
Mostly just looking at launch content and what Unity devs are reporting, performance legroom is night and day. Given how lax most people seem to have been in optimization til current it'll be a big change for most people.
I've yet to port my avatar over. - Got the unit yesterday, in the evening.
Portability is incredible; a little unhappy at the pause of content when the Quest enters passthrough, but not a huge deal
pastel storm
do some comparison between 'high' poly and 5k poly avatars sometime and prepare to be surprised @sharp spear
sharp spear
Some suprising things can be done within that legroom
Even if the difference is an order of magnitude on paper
velvet portal
But I know a person who has an avatar thats 50k poly and works like wonders on quest still
pastel storm
yeah that's what im tryin to say
not that anyone really quite needs 50k polys, even that amount is minimal on performance
velvet portal
Yess so i think you van almost do anything
But me personally i dont care for effects or anything I just like being basix
pastel storm
i just hope the devs see that and agree someday
twin pebble
my shiba inu's are originally modeled for the old cap of 20k polygons. They are only 18,000 polys. Even then, i had to compeletly redo them. The only part of the original model are the finger mesh. everything else is a retopologized.
my biggest obstacle now is how can i get all my patreon supporters avatars compatable with quest without having to repaint every single shiba
im looking into things like "projection baking" but that only works if the high poly mesh and low poly mesh have same UV sets.
im trying to find a mostly automated process
or a series of steps that i can script out an action and run that
pastel storm
you could have uploaded the 18k poly version to quest and seen if it had any performance impact. there's nothing stopping you from doing so. SDK doesn't have to be modified
most of my quest friends use 20k+ poly avatars themselves
twin pebble
if the documentation says 5K polys im going to make 5k polys because i don't want everything to break one day if they impliment a hard cut off.
plus finding a technique to this problem could solve a lot of other workflow issues i have at my dayjob
pastel storm
the documentation gives a recommendation, like 32k is recommended for PC
twin pebble
😤 💪 well i got it working with 5K so...