And then you have a separate armature for the back legs right? It's all the same skinned mesh too if I'm not mistaken
#avatar-rigging
fervent hornet
static blaze
I actually have 3 different skinned meshes... I'll have to explain that part in more detail later... but I took some tips from my work in Beat Saber
fervent hornet
Wouldn't multiple meshes end with cuts though? Guess you have to position the seams on static parts
static blaze
I have the seams hidden under the clothing and such
also, my neck has perfect skin weighting to keep the head attached
beat saber has to have seperate meshes
bold locust
^
fervent hornet
Ah so yeah just good positioning
bold locust
Good weights can probably hide seams.
fervent hornet
VRIK only works with 2 legs though right?
static blaze
yes, that's why I have 2 VRIK scripts
bold locust
If VR IK only needs to affect the hind legs, it's fine.
static blaze
and 3 armatures
static blaze
it's a super complicated hirearchy...
bold locust
But jeez.
fervent hornet
Alright so I'mma need 4 scripts and 7 armatures for a spider probably
bold locust
XD
fervent hornet
Can't wait
static blaze
lol, don't follow my lead exactly
bold locust
OR
static blaze
it can be a lot more simple than what I did
bold locust
Just use limb IK.
fervent hornet
But the limb ik won't pitter patter lik his that's what I'm interested in
static blaze
I could have used limb IK for the front legs
fervent hornet
Especially since walking animations don't work anymore
static blaze
but I used full VRIK for the front legs
fervent hornet
How would you change those on the fly in a sense? If you animated them it would be local only
bold locust
The locomotion stuff doesn't work because of NetIK.
But you're going around NetIK.
With IK_Follower.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I haven't tried it though!
But
I have something that shows up globally with locomotion.
And I actually didn't want it to.
fervent hornet
I'm just going by the fact of how my spider uses blendshapes to walk but to others it just slides due to net ik
And if VRIK pitter patters automatically when the root is shifted that's exactly what I need
bold locust
I was trying to enable a line renderer on walkfwd so only I would see it, but it still shows up globally.
Was trying to use the broken locomotion to my advantage.
fervent hornet
Never breaks when you want it to smh
bold locust
Was just for targeting.
But I guess the line renderer is being affected by whatever is being affected by IK_Follower. Idk.
I haven't tried making locomotion work with IK follower on the thing I'm animating though.
That'd be new.
static blaze
it worked and my small fix didn't... give me just a few minutes to get this sorted out
I need to see if other's see me correctly
bold locust
Exactly.
Worst case scenario, have someone you trust clone it?
Because they may not know what "normal" looks like as well as you would.
static blaze
I won't be giving this one out to the public, but I do have an orange version that I will be supplying to general public ... but I want to know everything works first before I take that step
plus I need visemes.. and all that fun stuff
bold locust
Well, I mean for testing purposes.
Unless you multilog, you won't really know what others see otherwise.
static blaze
mhmm, I'll chat with a friend about it
fervent hornet
You can just private it after tests and they'll lose access anyways
broken haven
Unless they favorite it. Or was that fixed? I remember favoriting an avatar a while back and it was made private, but I could still use it from my favs.
fervent hornet
That should be a glitch, favoriting is treated like saving a URL. If you don't have permission it doesn't matter if you have the link. Safest method would be to reupload the model on a different blueprint
weak oar
Can other people see it though? That's the important thing
static blaze
I haven't had a good chance to test that side of it yet... I'm getting drug into something with some friends... I'll have to come back to this later tonight
weak oar
Ok, good luck
fervent hornet
Should work over network since it is just VRIK but yeah you never know
static blaze
Last time I checked over the network, my hind legs were pitter pattering
I just haven't tried with the IK Follower yet
anyways, I'm a little tied up, I'll let you all know when I have time, but you're welcome to friend me on VRChat! :3
bold locust
The preview window thing is common enough.
I'm use to my preview being funny looking but the model being fine.
But hopefully that's not how it looks globally. xD
fervent hornet
Nah the preview is a horrible way to gauge a model, its wrong much more often than right
bold locust
Can probably make it work in FBT too.
fervent hornet
It should work in FBT if its using the dummy system. As long as no Final IK touches the regular armature its fine
fervent hornet
Yeah thats why I think itll be fine
bold locust
So his actual legs are invisible.
I mean working in FBT so his front/back/both will track his legs.
fervent hornet
Ah no it shouldnt work, I dont think its set up for that yeah
fervent hornet
Thought you meant 'work' as in not explode
bold locust
But it'd probably have to be a separate version, tbh.
Since the FBT version would follow the invisible bones and not look as pitter pattery.
fervent hornet
Yeah its a trade off. good thing spiders are "easier"
Just gonna make fangs and leave the normal legs to pitter patter on their own
bold locust
Fangs would be the actual legs?
fervent hornet
Yeah like monster masume
bold locust
Yeah.
fervent hornet
Current model doesnt have fangs as its based off of greek arachnoids but it would be a disservice to not add thing due to FBT
First made the model like 8 months ago when I didnt have fbt
oh nvm not 8 months, 16 months ago
Time flies I guess
bold locust
Just sit down and playspace up to change the height of the spider, then wiggle legs to move fangs.
fervent hornet
Yeah the legs have grounders like I said earlier to the height doesnt matter too much
last isle
I'm not sure why but for some reason my right leg on the yuuko-san model is bending backwards, the rigging and painting seemed fine in blender.
I know this model has had its fair share of popularity off of booth. was just curious if anyone else had this issue with it and how they might have fixed theirs. ty.
(Found a fix just now i believe i think it was something with the standing animation because i reuploaded the model without any overrides and there were no longer any issues cx)
static blaze
Hey! so quick update.... other players see me correctly! ... well, except for my regular arms for some reason... they just hand at my sides... my fingers apparently still move... anyways, I think I have an easy fix for it, I just wanted to confirm for everyone that the hind and fore legs were working correctly :3
fervent hornet
Thanks for the update dude!
dark pollen
Got a weird problem with my avatar's hip and legs. Looks all fine and good in unity and blender
But in game
Don't have time to test it in full body...but this is obviously not right. Any thoughts?
As the issue seems somewhat similar to Cry's above, I also tried deleting the controller override but that did not fix it :(
Edit: Gotta sleep. Will get to any replies when I wake up
fervent hornet
@dark pollen Whats the rig look like in blender? Make sure its like the hips in the recommended docs for FBT https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/full-body-tracking
dark pollen
Oh got to me before I logged off haha. Lemme check
Oh wow, didn't notice this. The hip bone is tiny and very slightly off center https://gyazo.com/6bcb95f1c186f93616020da1b6825a3b
Eeeeeeh, I tried lining it up but didn't fix it
Okay am sleeping for real now. Please leave me advice, I've spent too long on this damn avatar to give up on it oTL
sly mirage
can anyone give me some sort of template on what a elites bone structure is supposed to look like my hips in vr are tilted forwards and im girateing up and down also my hands are streched so far out with no give what so ever i have to put them all the way behind me
sly mirage
no one can help me here ?
crisp tendon
move the hip bone in front of the legs
dark pollen
I still need advice for my issue above ;;
quick temple
I need some help with a model. I extracted a model from a game and it has no shoulders, does anyone know how to fix it?
dark pollen
Double check all the bones, usually when extracted from a game they have weird names. Otherwise, you'll most likely need to make the shoulder bones yourself [assuming you're talking about shoulder bones]
There's also the possibility that they are there, just super tiny. Double check the armature [which could also be messed up and parented incorrectly]
quick temple
no, there's no shoulder bones at all
it goes spine>chest>arms
it's an animatronic
i got help from someone else, so yea
dark pollen
Oof yeah, gotta add them bones my dude
Ooooh I just fixed my model's hip problem!
Flipped the hip bone around and the seemed to do the job
quick temple
got it to work!
zinc aurora
Im having an issue with weight painting, ive unchecked the "front faces only" box but its still not painting through my mesh, any ideas as to whats wrong? Hitting x-ray makes stuff hard to see and doesnt work either.
enabling "2d falloff" seems to have fixed it
edgy ginkgo
Maxwell RodgersLast Tuesday at 6:09 PM
does bone roll effect anything?
glass panther
Shoulder weight painting for human characters is still my enemy especially for when vr is being used they always turn out to be a big mess XD I need to study up more on even better topology and proper weight painting.
bold locust
It's not always your weight painting that's the issue.
IK always droops the shoulders a different amount based on which way you're playing VRC at the time. (Desktop, VR, FBT)
blazing parcel
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337801456415539200/637773082605387806/unknown.png
im finally out of ideas of what it can be i lined it out just like it should be in the docs but got squad. does someone have some sugesstions of what to try
static blaze
Does anyone have any tips on how to make the eyes blink and track? For whatever reason, this is not working on my model. All of the visemes, fingers, hips, and everything else is working properly.
I did create the blenshapes for blink.
merry estuary
Did you create blendshapes separate for each eye for upper and lower eye lid? Did you name your bones correctly for eye movement and blinking to work? https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/wikis/Other/Eye-Tracking
static blaze
eh? you have to actually name the bones specifically? I linked them to the eyes in unity. I didn't realize you have to rename them.
and yes, I did make seperate blendshapes for upper and lower
let me dig through this tutorial a bit more, I hadn't seen this one before
give me 30 mins to fix everything to match exactly
lethal lark
Hey guys, is there a way to perfectly line up a bones tail with another bones head? Does that make sense?
merry estuary
Enable "Snap during transform", select vert mode, select head/ tail you want to line up and click on the other bone tail/head
Options are located on the tab on the right side of the screenshot https://gyazo.com/b58d723eb8d78a894e7012c9daa29d7f
lethal lark
Ah I got it, thanks!
slow kettle
Anyone familiar with Fortnite avatars? Is it possible to add Eye Tracking and Visemes to them, or do they require extra work to make it happen?
weak oar
Extra work. I had to rig them myself, well, I actually had to remake the eyes in both instances.
slow kettle
Ah, I figured as much considering the way it's set up currently. Thanks for the confirmation though :S
weak oar
Which character(s) are you looking at?
static blaze
I just wanted to quickly followup, I did get the face and eye mapping to work! @merry estuary
merry estuary
goood goood
weak oar
Congrats
static blaze
Okay, I got a new one... so in local mode, litterally everything works properly! However, my friends are saying that they see me with just pure white eyes... I'm using the same material for the eyes as the rest of the body and we had one of them look inside my head, they couldn't see the irises at all... any ideas?
bold locust
I get this occasionally. I'm not sure what the cause was, but it's usually not the same across all clients for me. Either I see the issue on one of my eye materials (I have two for my use case) or someone else sees the issue. It used to be when this happened it was due to me using Fade render mode. But I've stopped using Fade render mode for a long time.
If it happens to you and it happens to me and we're both using Final IK, it may be Final IK. But I haven't jumped to that yet.
Worst case scenario, you'd set up alternative eye tracking.
If it's just VRC's eye tracking bugging out.
static blaze
hmm... maybe it's disabling my materials on this? I could try unparenting the actual eye and using rigid bodies to drive the eyes from VRChat's IK?
bold locust
I haven't tried to fix it. It hadn't become a big enough issue for me yet.
Yes.
OR
WAIT
I know VRC eye tracking works differently.
I have a model with 3 eyes and I use Aim IK to make the 3rd eye "track", without IK_Follower.
And it works globally.
So idk.
static blaze
hmm, I'll try some aim IK then
bold locust
If you have Eye_L and Eye_R as well as LeftEye and RightEye you could IK one to the other maybe.
I always have 2 sets of eye bones.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
static blaze
I have 2 sets of eye bones as well
current the one that drives the mesh is under the LeftEye for VRChat
bold locust
Yes. It should be.
So maybe IK Eye_L to a target out in front of LeftEye.
I'm not sure why it'd bug out though. I don't know how they do their eye tracking.
static blaze
it's pretty cumbersome... that's for sure... but I'm already this far in, may as well try some small things like that
static blaze
yeah, I've even seen some eye tracking based shaders
weak oar
Beware of how those will look for people with your shader(s) disabled
bold locust
Eye tracking just wouldn't work.
They'd just be still eyes with the fallback.
At least with Vilar's.
torn elk
my models left eye just broke, it wont follow the main model but it is still a child of the head
torn elk
@ me if you got an idea to fix lol
cursive drum
Does anyone know how to add a mesh that already has a skeleton to another model that has a skeleton too?
vital veldt
don't suppose anyone know how to remove weight paint in blender
crisp tendon
set brush to remove
velvet violet
Hi, does anyone know how to add just a few bones from one model to another? While I was working on a model I must have deleted the little and ring finger bones without noticing. This is after I have done a bit of work so I was hoping I could move over the bones from the original model. Is there some way I can do this that would carry over the weightpainting? The hands are the same, it just has different other pieces and some other work done to it that I don't want to lose, and I am no good at weightpainting
turbid spear
weight paints are stored in vertex groups not bones so if you delete the bones the weights are still there when you bring in a bone with the same name
so just pull a copy of your original armature in and separate the bones you need deleting the rest, then just merge the armatures and parent the new bones back
so yes you can, and it's fairly easy but you still need to know what you're doing i guess
glass panther
Do all bones have to be mapped and weight painting for rigs to work correctly? i wanted to attempt leaving out shoulder bones to make this shoulder joint for a robotic avatar work better.
weak oar
Nope, they just have to exist, they can be "dummy" in that they don't actually affect anything.
glass panther
So that would work even if there is no weight assigned to it?
If so i'll give the avatar dummy shoulders then to see how that works 😄
weak oar
Yes. That's how you make things with weird bodies or puppets. My puppet has an entire full human armature with literally no mesh weighted to it.
glass panther
Oh wow thank you 😄 Gosh i had no idea that would work i think you saved me from many problems XD
weak oar
It's also how models with less than enough fingers work, you basically have the bones there and mapped in the rig, but not actually weighted to anything.
static blaze
Okay! I got another one for my taur character... I assume this also happens on other models as well...
I basically have a slow moving dynamic chain connected to the hips of my avatar... this works great in almost all scenarios to control the lower spine.... however, when the player sits down and then stands back up, the hips permanently twist just a little which makes my hind rump fall to the floor....
Any ideas on why sitting would cause a child bone to offset some?
(I guess I can just say "you're a taur! Dont sit!" But I really want a better solution....)
Oh, I should mention, this is only without full body tracking... with full body, the hips keep aligning properly... also, this issue seems to be more intense with desktop users than VR users...
merry estuary
I think this may be caused in some cases if you connect dynamic bones to hips. I prefer to parent extra bone to my hip bone in almost the same position, make it so that it is not weight painted to anything and parent dynamic bones to it instead to hips, this shouldn't cause the problem you are facing
weak oar
@static blaze "Poor" isn't too bad btw, "Very Poor" is the bad one because that one has no upper limit on "badness".
static blaze
@weak oar sooo... believe it or not I actually got the foxtaur to "medium" quality
@merry estuary I currently have an "offset bone" that does what you're saying.. unfortunately it's still happening..
merry estuary
I don't know what is wrong then
static blaze
Theres no script running on the offset bone... however, my dynamics are being calculated in a script all the way at the top level of the armature... it's not right at the bone its affecting
Idk if that matters or not
merry estuary
you should have script set on offset bone and have all the bones that are suppose to be dynamic be connected to that bone
static blaze
I can certainly move the script and see if it helps
static blaze
Okay, moving the script did not work...
bold locust
The location of the script doesn't matter. You can put the script component on your toes and have that script affecting your hair. What matters it what the the script's targeting. That's why I usually just put every script on the root so I can reach them all more easily. I can go into play mode, drag the root around to test, and have the scripts right there on root to edit if I need to. It just makes more sense.
Personally, I don't use skirt roots and I haven't had an issue when sitting.
I make the root my head or my hips all the time and never have problems.
I'd say, if it's something that only happens on your uniquely rigged up foxtuar avatar, it may be more likely related to that than dynamic bones. Since dynamic bones wouldn't do that under normal circumstances.
Especially if you add in that you mentioned it not happening in FBT. Then it kind of sounds like something related to your unique IK setup.
@static blaze
static blaze
Thanks for the input @bold locust ! I would still really like to get it fixed though... -.- I may have a small idea that may help... I'll keep looking into it...
Luckily it's a pretty minor issue... still driving me crazy though...
bold locust
Sitting is essentially a state change, so maybe the IK jumping around messes with it.
Maybe you could animate your sit idle to correct it and have a separate sitting override where the only difference is the sit pose animation.
Trying to remember if you even can. lol
Pretty sure every chair uses its own override for sitting.
So probably can't do that.
oof
Can always have a reset.
spice axle
Hello! Question about weight painting in the new blender, how do i change it so that when i weight paint on the back, it goes through the whole body? (EX: weight paint the back of the leg, both sides including the front get that weight painting)
rotund vortex
Hey! ive been struggling for awhile now. Whenever I try to press play or begin publishing my avatar the model kind of inverts itself down to the hips. any advice?
sry just figured it out! I somehow had two avatars with the same name in the scene and it was refrencing the wrong one.
static blaze
@bold locust how could I built a reset? just a emote override?
daring osprey
so i made this goose and i was wondering how one would rig it so that it could use humanoid animations, i have added all the bones needed but it says not in t-pose and doesn't work
bold locust
Just an emote override that toggles whatever it is you want reset off and on. Or positions it. Etc. A lot of different ways to reset.
@static blaze
Can also do it with a gesture or just have it loop in the idle pose.
A lot of ways to do it.
It just has to happen in enough frames that people will at least "see" the reset.
If it's in a single frame, they could just drop the frame it happens and then they'd miss the reset.
I really depends on what would fix your issue.
Maybe toggling the IK script off and on.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
static blaze
hmm, yeah, I can confirm that just rotating the hips back to default doesn't fix it
I'm adding a fix hips animation to each of my gestures... hoping that will fix it...
Okay! putting these in gestures DOES fix it! soooo... I think I want to add this to my idle animation... I'll move to animation with my next question
shy cloud
How does one move the bone without making the parent bone move? (basically I want the dotted lines on the selected bone)
weak oar
Untick "Connected" in the bone config
shy cloud
Ah, thanks.
shy cloud
New problem, how do I get vertices to follow bones?
(demonstrated with dynamic bones in Unity)
shy cloud
Ah, name them the same as vertex groups.
static blaze
(Sorry to interrupt, I don't have much time to get this posted)
Okay, I'm starting to think this is a glitch in the system...
I opened the template avatar and added a long plane just under the hips. When first loading in, this plane tilts down a bit (not a big deal), but after you sit down, it rotates down even further. This is especially obvious in desktop mode for some reason. This is probably not a big deal for normal avatars, but I have made a custom avatar that has a lot hanging off the back of the hips and it looks very strange.
(I went ahead and posted this to the bug report page... I really hope this gets fixed)
static blaze
Hahaha, okay, back legs arent too bad... create a whole extra rig and set it up with VRIK, then parent the targets to the front hips.... add the VRIK Grounder script and you're basically done.. it's a lot of bones. But it works great
The lower spine was a pain though... to get it to not break apart...
weak oar
So I'm trying to auto-weight a single piece to a few bones, is that even possible with other stuff in the scene? Blender doesn't seem to like you doing that.
After selecting a bone in pose mode, right clicking the mesh just seems to do nothing
weak oar
(I've weight painted before, but it's being weird now, like I can't select things or change bones while in WP mode)
merry estuary
For me auto weight was doing alright as long as there was a single mesh, most accessories that weren't part of the body/outfit were not painted. Shoulder weights also came out below expectations but I never had a problem with selecting different bones
weak oar
well this is new, this avattar is facing back to front in game
raw jackal
@weak oar I've run into the glitch you're having a couple of times, but with the Sculpt tool instead of the Weight Painting tool. For me, changing modes a few times seemed to fix it somehow. Might not fix yours, but you're not alone ^
(To be specific, I could click things but the tool just wouldn't work on whatever part of the mesh I clicked)
manic marsh
Ah, I see, I never got the ik grounder to work in vrchat, works in unity tho 
teal badge
Does anyone know why Blender would delete bones when merging armatures?
crystal vector
@teal badge With cats or without?
teal badge
Cats is on, but using Ctrl+J
crystal vector
Not sure then 🤔 does it delete them all or just some?
steady patio
thats some nice weight painting issues
of course pants dont do that >u>
itll be annoying to fix
but nothing god awful
fading verge
@steady patio how can i fix pls help
steady patio
look up a weight painting video
fading verge
whats is weight painting exactly?
steady patio
a video would explain better, but its what actually determines how your mesh deforms in response to the bones in your armature
weak oar
Is there no "blur" weight painting brush anymore in Blender? I'm trying to smooth out some parts and just cannot find a good way of doing it.
echo drift
@weak oar which version of blender do you have?
weak oar
2.80
2.79 has a blur option, 2.80 doesn't.
Plus in general I can never get a nice transition between two bones, it always looks terrible.
echo drift
Is it different than this?
fading verge
i merged a TDA with a armor set and the wieghts are off on the chest Bone where the cut mesh does this
but the chest bone in wight painting is doing this
like no wieghts is on it
echo drift
Oh that's because there's no vertex group on it... right?
fading verge
i would assume so because i mostly just merged using cats armature
fading verge
yeah the skin area and the armor is different but how it's a TDA the neck and head mesh is seperate with cut
echo drift
I guess I may as well ask, where did you get the avatar?
fading verge
all i did was use a armor amature from a game and a TDA base, nothing fancy or different
echo drift
oh ok
fading verge
i am guessing the vertex wieghts on the bones hasn't merged
this happened before and i forgot how i had it fixed
i think i just threw my problems at someone else to fix
echo drift
ctrl + J to join the mesh into one
fading verge
oh that is what u mean
yes the Body mesh is single
the chest bone is somehow with zero wieght
echo drift
So you're doing weight paints for the chest bone?
fading verge
i would need to fix it because how it's using 2 different armatures merged to one
weak oar
@echo drift Son of a bitch. I was going into the toolbar where you set add/subtract/mix etc. So it's moved.
Thanks for pointing it out.
echo drift
no prob env
weak oar
In the same vein, is there some way of telling it to just take two bones and create a nice blended joint between them?
echo drift
when you're on the bone to add the weight paint, it turns purple? odds are there's no associated vertex group with it with the exact same name
fading verge
hmm there is only one Torso vertex group that is named with something in the chest area... but i never really dwelled into vertex groups
yet
thank u for guiding me into finding out it was vertex groups
echo drift
glad I could help 🙂
weak oar
That said, can auto weight paint work with just a few bones on an existing model, without affecting the rest of the model?
echo drift
so wait, are you adding more bones to the existing models armature? I'm not following
because auto weight paint can work with one to infinite amounts of bones.
here's a super quick armature with auto weight paint when the mesh was bound to it. this had two bones in it so it can work fine
weak oar
So I have an existing mesh and full armature, but I only want it to try and auto weight paint 4 of the bones, not all of them.
echo drift
I think I found it... gonna try it on my end first
It looks like you can, if you can see there's an "Assign Automatic from Bones" option in the top left corner of the weight paint menu
weak oar
That does the entire armature though afaik
echo drift
weird because the first bone with the modded weight paint on my end for "Bone" was left unchanged before Assign Automatic from bones was executed and made a weight painted vertex group for "Bone.001"
weak oar
Hmm, I'll have to double check though and see what happens. Thanks for testing.
echo drift
Now an issue I'm having is a long standing issue, no pun intended. What is the deal is for the legs of the avatar I'm trying to make can't work with foot tracking for some reason.
echo drift
worse, its like my body collapses in it's self like a crushed can and I don't know what I'm doing wrong
it's an old image but it's doing the exact same thing now
crisp tendon
With the Cat fix ?
echo drift
yeah
it's a hunched over character so I'm making it hunched over so I don't have to hurt my back. It works fine without the hip and feet trackers
crisp tendon
so this is in 3pt tracking in screenshot above ?
echo drift
yeah
crisp tendon
you should probably angle your bones a bit straighter
weak oar
Where is the avatar descriptor?
crisp tendon
also the hip bone is minuscule
echo drift
oh yeah, why did I do that?
so the bones in the legs a bit straighter or all the above?
also I clicked on fix after I tried scaling the hip bone to a nice size, it shrunk the hip bone back to being tiny
I'm going to try some things after I go eat
chilly remnant
Im not sure if its exactly rigging but does anyone know if theres a way to copy all the transforms for a bone at once in Blender?
naive tree
@chilly remnant what do u want to do
you can copy-paste transforms in pose to mirrored bone, ctrl+C (bone selected)>ctrl+shift+v(don't need to select mirrored bone)
chilly remnant
I have a skeleton where the bones are in the wrong places so I positioned the other side correctly and just want to get the other side bones to be mirrored
Also I was wondering if theres a way to just copy all the different transforms all at once
naive tree
you can select all bones from side and press W>symmetrize
that requires for them to be named properly though
chilly remnant
Ok I think I got it, thanks 🙂
modest sky
Just looks like a problem with the shape key to me. Is it only when they are making that expression?
modest sky
So it only occurs whenever you change your expression?
to any expression not just that one?
modest sky
Alright, it still sounds like a problem with shapekeys to me. A fix that you can try is editing one of them in Blender to see if it fixes the issue and if so going through and doing all of them the same way.
Looking up any tutorial on Blender about how shapekeys work and the like is a good way to see how they work and how you can fix it. Probably just selecting the head mesh while it's in that shapekey and using the sculpt mode to bring down the top of the head to where it would be hidden by the hair would do it
naive tree
@fading verge select the top half of head in edit mode and hit W> propagate shape
it'll make so selected verts will stay as they are selected in all shapekeys
modest sky
I forget that propagate is a thing
fading verge
?
echo drift
I think it's a weight paint issue now
simple gorge
@fading verge i can look into if you like
fading verge
i am in a intersting pickle
my shapekeys are not in unity but i am 100% with blender and has only 1 body
turbid spear
Do your shape keys work in blender
fading verge
yes
turbid spear
Fair enough, was just worth checking
fading verge
i must of fucked it up when merging the armatures with cats
turbid spear
Well if they work in blender after merging, they should
Maybe check the export settings or the fbx import settings
Don't see why this would be unchecked tho
fading verge
yep it's already checked
turbid spear
No clue then
fading verge
hmm intersting never ran into something like this before
i fixed it by removing a edgesplit modifier? @turbid spear
turbid spear
Oh, that makes sense
minor pendant
What should I do te prevent foot sinking in floor for few cm?
It's ok in Blender, ok in Unity but sinks in game
wind osprey
Check that the feet are on the floor (0 Y axis) in Unity's rig configuration. If not pull the whole thing up by the hip bone until the feet are properly aligned.
wind osprey
Huh, and this happens in any world? I ask since some worlds have poor collider placement.
minor pendant
yes, and i ask person to stay on chair because i know for sure that it's made of cubes with box clliders perfectly matching mesh
hushed quiver
Raise the bone at the ankle point a bit up and ull be fine @minor pendant
In either unity rig menu or in blender
minor pendant
I thought VRC tries to pull toe bone to the ground, so i put toe bone to the ground, but it does not helps.
shuld I pull it up, or what?
crisp tendon
Are you using full body tracking ? @minor pendant
minor pendant
this one screen made from desctop, in fbt it's not that noticeble as I can us playspace mover to adjust, but yes, it's aslo sinks into floor both on desktop, in vr, in fbtvr.
minor pendant
What gap size should be between floor and toe bone? I tried to pull it down beacuse I have my own version of X-Bot and Y-Bot for testing skeletons: it have toe bone right on the floor and it's works fine
I am trying to understand what exactly affects sinking and what gap I should have
crisp tendon
Your real user height difference is what makes the gap
If it's to height and scaled correctly in VRC, you should be touching the ground
minor pendant
both avatars ( that I developing, my X-Bot and my Y-Bot ) have same height = 180cm, same eyepoint = 169.5cm same arm height. I can make comparision screens. Me and my friend making avatars that not only match body proportions, but also match our real world scales of body. We using eyepoints for adjust scales and X-Bot and Y-Bot skeletons as reference (beacuse we tested these models before and had best FBT experience) to udjust proportions. Our avatars sekeletons closely match X-Bot and Y-Bot
But X-Bot / Y-Bot does not sinks into the ground, but our avatars sinks. I am trying to understand why.
here comparion of two skeletons: X-Bot and avatar I am wrking on
also sideview
I also don't understand what about "real user height difference" on desktop?
also unity comparsion
crisp tendon
You're having this issue in desktop mode ?
crisp tendon
And you have toes mapped in the humanoid configuration ?
minor pendant
yes
w/o toes it does not work well in fbt as i remember
but actually one major difference betwen two avatars was hips origin position, in X bot it had CATS suggested position, in dev avatar it was a bit lower, now i made same hips position (as CATS suggest), but it also sinks
crisp tendon
oh, yeah, that's a minuscule hip bone
that's what i got and it works very well for me
minor pendant
🤷
(it's desktop)
I also noticed it's whole avatar sinks in floor because viewpoint also goes down
it's almost 170 in unity, but de-facto about 166 in vrc
left: desctp me, right: t-posing friend. I am sinking in floor
somber flicker
Having rigging issues. Hand looks like this in Blender, but brought into Unity and VRC using (for example) the open hand gesture, the fingers seem to be turned.
bold locust
@minor pendant Sinking is different per model, really. Some may be fine, some may be bad. Every model has different weight painting and rigging, unless they're all made by the same person and that person is very conscious of it. If your model sinks, the thing to do is open up rig config in Unity and drag the hip bone up the amount that you feel it needs in order to be out of the floor. Apply, and upload. If it's too much, drag it back down, too little, drag it up more. You may just need to correct things in the viewpoint too.
wind osprey
@somber flicker Are your hands facing straight down like this?
somber flicker
No but i fixed it by going into pose mode in blender and setting my edits as the rest position
wind osprey
Mm, for future reference the hands do need to be as flat facing as possible to prevent weird finger rotations.
You also don't need to apply the rest pose, just t-pose it in blender and save that in the pose library and Unity'll take it when you export.
somber flicker
hm okay
the only other issue i'm having is I have a model that takes a helmet off as an animation, but when i do, it drops frames to 11 for NO REASON. All the animation does: disables helmet mesh, turns off a shapekey that hides horns.
cobalt frost
@somber flicker might be related to https://vrchat.canny.io/bug-reports/p/845-avatars-with-an-active-blendshape-causes-a-significant-loss-of-performance
fading verge
how do i add claw phicys to my avatar
weak oar
Claw physics?
fading verge
why does my shirt look fine on blender
but when i upload it too unity
the shirt messes up?
weak oar
Looks like inverted normals.
fading verge
how do i fix pls
@weak oar
Select the affected faces in blender, ctrl+n
Or select the affected faces and do flip normals
Or select all faces and do ctrl+n and hope something doesn't mess up
Or the grody way, use a double sided shader/outline option on a shader
so like this?
and then i hit ctrl n?
@fading verge
i think
i just fixed it
by going to material
and turning off transparency
steady patio
@fading verge if it looks fixed then it should be fine, but yeah that does look like inverted normals, so if the shit still doesnt work then make sure that your normals are facing outwards as they already said
also, at some point you should look into doing retopology on that shirt. it looks nice but that mesh is not exactly ideal for animating ^ ^`
thats if you ever want to learn how to, of course
gray steppe
oi, anyone got a sec to help me out, cant for the life of me remember whats causing this bug
fading verge
Hey there, just got back into modeling after a long time and was just about to finish rigging and keep getting a heat weighting: failed to find solution for one or more bones error when I try to parent with automatic weights. When I continue on, everything moves wrongly (if that makes sense). Any help will be great and let me know what info to give to help you
opal aurora
@fading verge make sure your mesh does not have doubles as autoweights has no idea of how to deal with them
fading verge
Hmm is there a way to see if there's doubles?
opal aurora
You can remove doubles on a selected mesh by pressing W whilst in edit mode and selecting remove doubles, but do keep in mind that very close mesh portions might merge together (such as a mouth or teeth), so keep a backup just incase
After removing doubles, try to autoweight again
fading verge
Ok, I’ll try that tomorrow.
sick crest
this is mooore of a blender 2.8 question than anything else but googling hasn't been kind to me; does anyone know how to get to wireframe view for weightpainting in 2.8?
quiet canopy
yes
nova plover
i dont believe there is a wireframe view for weight painting, is there?
sick crest
there def was for 2.79 T__T
mint idol
quiet canopy
be sure to turn on xray in
mint idol
Any ideas? Or back to blender for something?
When enforcing tpose, finger tips get rotated?
nova plover
are there bones in the fingertips? cause im not seeing any
mint idol
Umm..
sick crest
@quiet canopy that's the mask mode, you have to actually select parts of it to paint using L and once you do it stops showing the wireframe T__T
x-ray isn't quite the effect i want either, as i do want to see the poly build so it's easier to get weights right in creases. i'll hit up google a bit more
mint idol
That's how the rest of my models look in unity, minus the rotation. Must not show end bones or something in unity...?
quiet canopy
@sick crest I guess it's up to your methold
nova plover
@sick crest by wireframe, i assume you mean the view you hold z to get to?
sick crest
wait, i figured it out, it's this:
it gave me the effect i was looking for
but thank you! you got me looking in the right areas
so super appreciate
nova plover
glad you found what you were looking for ^^
quiet canopy
@sick crest np
opal aurora
@mint idol on fbx export, make sure exporting leaf bones is off
opal aurora
Your fingertips should properly align afterwards
If you need leaf bones for dynamic bones, use simulated bones which work to the same effect
opal aurora
Never delete bones in unity
tacit wave
i am trying to rig a modle and was wondering why the axis are not facking the same way as the bone.
This is my first time rigging so not sure if is what its supposed to look like
crisp tendon
You mean the rotation axis?
Try pressing 1 on your numpad
it should be facing you that way at least
tacit wave
it rotates on an angle
crisp tendon
@tacit wave Try clearing rolls in edit mode with all your bones selected first
it might help
opal aurora
Re-drag the model into the scene
earnest brook
not necessarily about just rigging, but hey
are people still on blender 2.79 or is 2.8 usable for rigging properly yet?
I tried to weight paint a model in 2.8, but it refuses to let me select which bone the weights apply to in weight paint mode
I can go into pose mode and pick the bone there, but it reverts my selection when I exit pose mode to go back to weight paint mode on the model
weak oar
I've run into that issue too, honestly can't figure out what it wants me to do.
opal aurora
Are you exiting pose mode (going to object mode to select mesh) or just doing it the 2.79 way of, pose mode, select mesh, weight paint?
Since atleast on 2.79 you had to be in pose mode whilst weight painting
weak oar
You can't select the mesh in pose mode like you could in 2.79, it just doesn't select anything
opal aurora
That sounds horrible
weak oar
Yeah, I don't know how it's supposed to work, but it's confusing coming from 2.79.
opal aurora
Can you select the armature after going into weight paint mode?
Or, perhaps go to pose mode but select the mesh in the hierarchy and switch to weight paint
weak oar
Nope
opal aurora
That just sounds so counterintuitive then, i can't think of an alternative
weak oar
I'm not actually sure what the right method is on 2.80 now. Doesn't help that I was still learning 2.79 at the time, heh.
opal aurora
crisp tendon
Now that I've used 2.8 for a while, it's not bad, but the initial change of workflow was a pain in the ass for sure
Armature in pose mode, shift click it, then the mesh, weight paint mode, then you can ctrl right click the bones to change
opal aurora
Hey ruuubick, out of curiosity, do you know how to bake vertex colors in 2.8?
In 2.79 it was just one of the selection boxes, but i assume both eevee and cycles on 2.8 will rely exclusively on node setups
crisp tendon
Yeah I'm guessing most of the baking is node based now
There's probably an add-on for it though
opal aurora
I did find out i could just copy the whole thing, nodes et all from 2.8 to 2.79 directly from window to window to work on 2.79 instead, but i'm curious on the workflow, say i wanted to bake 2.8's PBR rather than 2.79 with vertex groups as a base
So far i've found no recourse for 2.8 in regards to even shadeless vertex color baking, just baking to vertex colors
crisp tendon
@urban mango might know
urban mango
i do not use vertex colors, so i can't help, sorry
i usually just have materials applied to differrent parts of the mesh and i bake the base color
opal aurora
No worries, i can work perfectly fine with them on 2.79, i'm just curious if anybody knows how to do so in 2.80
urban mango
i suppose they do not appear when rendering with cycles?
opal aurora
They appear in both eevee and cycles as far as i've seen, baking results in either nothing or a "heightmap" of sorts if i recall correctly
urban mango
hmm
interesting
because they do plug into the base color slot
let me try something out real quick
hmm, it doenst even seem to appear for me in cycles in 2.8
when in rendered mode
¯_(ツ)_/¯
opal aurora
In 2.79 there was a checkbox in the N menu to show vertex colors
None of the rendering modes would show them unless that was ticked
warm chasm
could someone help me out on how to deal with this?
turbid spear
Select the .fbx file of your avatar in assets, click it, click on rig, configure then click on upper chest and set it to none
warm chasm
hang on
for some reason the chest is located in the middle of the body
see?
i can try and chance it hang on
ok I think I got it
alright thank you
hardy sail
Okay. Apparently the SDK is drunk. A yellow error means it should allow for me to upload. Everything else is green, and yes, I did "Show All Avatar Performance Details." Could someone help?
Hello? I haven't got a clue...
crisp tendon
it's not a yellow error preventing you to upload
probably another model in the scene, or make sure to show all avatar stats in settings
@hardy sail
hardy sail
I already did. The only red I recieve is from the other model I had to combine but I cannot remove the other part of the model in order to keep visemes, and using blender for all that is too much work
The actual avatar has no red
crisp tendon
then remove or disable that avatar in your scene
hardy sail
i cant it's the literal head of the real avatar
crisp tendon
i don't understand what you're trying to do
hardy sail
I have two avatars. I had to combine one of them into another one in order to keep visemes enabled.
crisp tendon
that's not how it works
hardy sail
I know but i am not advanced enough in blender to do it the correct way.
crisp tendon
Time to learn then !
All the tutorials already exist for that
and once you know how to do it, you'll be able to do it as may times as you want
hardy sail
That is what I should do
Oh my God. Now the entire SDK did what I feared and broke again. Please help.
crisp tendon
which version of unity are you on
crisp tendon
get the correct one then please !
hardy sail
But I have had the correct SDK break on the correct Unity version plenty of times.
Then I'll have to re-import tons of assets.
crisp tendon
most likely because you're updating incorrectly
hardy sail
I have no idea.
hardy sail
If I update my unity version I have to.
crisp tendon
nope
either use unity hub like most of us, or get the standalone editor version, then open your project, it'll upgrade everything automatically
hardy sail
Okay, thanks
I am reimporting the SDK. It just takes forever because my CPU isn't the greatest.
...and then the games runs off of my CPU rather than my GPU, which bottlenecks the entire system
crisp tendon
yeah make sure to only have unity opened
hardy sail
...Oh my God, it didn't break, Thank you so much for helping me fix it. I should just read the directions from now on...thank God they aren't IKEA instructions
crisp tendon
sometimes they are Ikea instructions, and that's when you come here for help 
hardy sail
Yep.
hardy sail
Okay, I believe that I have fixed all of it. Thanks
daring osprey
how do i fix the feet so it does not do this when in tpose
tough robin
Icant tell whats happening but I am guessing the feet is weighted to a different bone on accident it it gets pulled when tposed
daring osprey
it could be the weight painting i will have to see but heres a better photo
warm chasm
I was wondering if there was anyone here willing to help me out with dynamic bones?
I have no idea how to make them and youtube didnt help out that well
weak oar
Stick it on the first bone in the chain, play with the 4 values, profit.
fading verge
For some reason Mixamo just dosent want to rig this model i've tried everything, but it just says "Execution Expired"! Anyone know how to fix?
crisp tendon
Should be easy to do it manually if Mixamo doesn't work out
fading verge
Ugh. It isn't working! Do anyone see what i've done wrong?!
I tried the heat weighting, but this error pops up and it doesn't work
fading verge
Like put all my meshes in one?
fading verge
See What?
crisp tendon
the model, everyone will most likely hide your avatar because of its performance cost
fading verge
Holdup how do I merge meshes in blender?
crisp tendon
Select one, then a then ctrl + J
merry estuary
3.1 mil poly, what a champ
crisp tendon
Then you need to remove doubles
merry estuary
No, doubles are verticies that occupy the same space
In edit mode press A to select whole mesh, press W and then "remove doubles"
You can press T right after and you will have merge distance option where you can choose how far verts need to be to get merged together. Default value is a bit high and may merge some parts of mesh you don't want it to
bronze fern
Why is it so high poly
bold locust
Wrinkles.
opal aurora
Turning a model into a normal map
sly mirage
so im confused
im weight painting armor pieces to my armature red and they are not moving with the leg or any part of the armature
sly mirage
i know but that shouldnt mater
crisp tendon
there most likely one bone for the leg and one for the plate
opal aurora
Make sure the mesh has an armature modifier and is attached to your setup
crisp tendon
and make sure the plate doesn't have weight paint from other bones
sly mirage
if this is red what does this mean
opal aurora
Currently you have 2 armature modifiers, you should have a single one, if it's red i think it means that whatever it's attached to, does not exist
opal aurora
Or perhaps it's due to there being 2 modifiers, unsure
Look at the Object in the first modifier
It's empty
sly mirage
idk if this belong here but wierd shit is happening with my fingers and this shoulder and i dont know wtf is happening
what its doing
bold locust
Looks kinda like height map dialed way up.
sly mirage
what its supposed to be doing
bold locust
Oh wait. Your normals are flipped.
sly mirage
thats the thing its not. at all in fact the materials are linked for both sides of the the model
how do i un fuck them Q_Q
bold locust
If you tried just flipping it to put it on the other side by scaling it -1then your normals are flipped.
sly mirage
you mean... wait what?
bold locust
The best way is to select the mesh that has flipped normals in blender and hit space and search normals (I forgot the shortcut for this so just use search).
sly mirage
okay
bold locust
I think the shortcut might be W.
wind osprey
ctrl+n in edit mode
sly mirage
oh shit its working
wind osprey
Were you able to sort out the weighting issues from earlier?
wind osprey
Hi, this is that awkward part where I try to remember you 🤣
sly mirage
lol you probably saw me in a hyperealistic mothra avatar with a fur shader
in the halo world. xyons
i was talking with your about your metalic maps
wind osprey
I think I remember? God my memory is shit
sly mirage
its fine if you dont.
ive met you multiple times i guess i just never friended you i try not to bother people with that unless i see them more then 5 times
were good now. thank god for you brits and late nighters helping people at 12 maybe i can finish this thing tonight
sly mirage
arctic hollow
If anyone would be willing to offer advice or link a video or website about this, i'd greatly appreciate it. So I imported a model from a program, and everything works solidly after fixing the textures and loaded it in-game. When I walk around, my hair isn't rooted to my head. Is this related to the bones? I don't have a ton of experience with VRC avatars but from what can tell it related to the bones and Dynamic bones? I watch the VRC help page video on it and it didn't help me.
So yeah, my hair is like delayed and doesn't stay on my head is my only issue and I don't have the slightest idea on how to fix it. I have Blender, and the plug Cat and i've seen plenty of people use it but i don't know if that what i'd use to fix it or if it is a unity issue. 🙂
https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-optimizing-tips where I found the video I meant about the bones.
weak oar
Yeah, with hair you need to paint it to the head, or create a new bone(s) and paint it to that (with that bone parented to the head).
arctic hollow
well at least I know im looking in the right spot but i have no idea what that means haha 😄 but ill keep playing around n watching stuff c:
weak oar
Basically weight painting is setting what tris/polys are assigned to which bone. That or you can create vertex groups (literally a named group of vertex) and a bone with the same name and it'll be auto-weighted to that bone. You then just parent that bone to the head and it'll "just work".
arctic hollow
is that where on blender in the cat thing there a option for weight, they talked about it in the video but i got lost haha.
I am used to c4d and used blender for like 1hr haha so im pretty clueless hee
rose thunder
How do you fix the hips leaning forward when you crouch ? (for desktop) I don't remember what's the cause 🤔
I guess that's the bones placement ? or should I just remove toes bones in unity avatar configuration ?
tough robin
@arctic hollow weight painting in blender and c4d is pretty simmilar. Watch a few videos and I am sure you Will get the hang of it
arctic hollow
I'll try haha they are vastly different to me because I'm dyslexic so I am used to icon and blender uses more text inferace so I often have no idea wgat words mean what lol
At least I know where to look now ^~^
weak oar
If all of something is to be weighted uniformly to something else then simply using vertex groups is the easiest and is basically failsafe to be honest.
tough robin
You do understand what weight painting is right? Or is this your first time meeting with the concept?
arctic hollow
✈ 🙄 over my head xD never heard of it
I seen stuff about weight in doc video but other than that I've not seen it or heard of it till today
I'm pretty proud I gotten this far haha.
I'll try tommrow after some fresh sleeps but I feel I won't get it 🌞
tough robin
essentially waight painting is telling what part of the body is moved by a bone in an armature
youre essentially telling the bones what to do with the model by painting the part of the model they have to influence
arctic hollow
So essentially waight painting is how I get the arms and etc to move. But I didn't do it on the hair?
They have bones, it's just not link to something I assume, there like 8 hair bones
weak oar
Ah, that's easy then. Just select the root hair bone and set the parent to Head.
Or each root if it's in multiple pieces that aren't children of each other.
arctic hollow
I'll try now since you lovely are here now
so I opened blender, imported with cat, hide my body so I can only see the bones, how do I enter Edit mode to edit the bones
guess i could google it 😄
weak oar
Tab
arctic hollow
ohhhh
tough robin
the armature is probably not assigned correctly
go to the hairs mesh modifiers and check if the armature is correct
tough robin
are you free to screenshare right now?
arctic hollow
Mhm
fading verge
I added bones to the model, but in unity it says that the arms are missing! When you can clearly see the arms are mapped.
opal aurora
Drag the proper bone from the hierarchy on the left to the slot on the right
fading verge
I did, but now they are red and they don't work
opal aurora
Go back to before you weight painted it
Select the model, Ctrl+A, Apply location
Or was it Alt+A... i keep forgetting
After applying, try weighting again
And remove doubles if you get that error
fading verge
Nope still got it
omfg i've been working on this fucking rig for 2 days now and nomatter what i do it dosen't work!!!
opal aurora
Select the bones this time and apply their location
I'm curious though, i have a feeling you're not removing doubles properly, can you write down exactly what you're doing for such?
fading verge
i selected the model itself, went into edit mode, then removed doubles
opal aurora
Was everything on the model selected?
fading verge
yes
opal aurora
Hmm, perhaps your model is too complex and blender's throwing a fit, 1 million tris is nothing to scoff at
Would you like me to take a quick look over it?
fading verge
yes pleaaaase
opal aurora
I don't have much time at the moment, but just the .blend should suffice, i don't need any textures
fading verge
ill send u the project unweighted
weak oar
@opal aurora It's 2.4M, not 1M so it's even worse, lol.
opal aurora
Decimated it down to 66k tris, still seems good quality-wise
And my blender isn't screaming at me anymore yay
fading verge
How do i weightpaint the model to the bones?
calm lagoon
bleak condor
the white one looks like a long lost relative of a furby
crisp tendon
@fading verge Select the bones and do automatic weight paint
magic sonnet
anyone know why setting up eye tracking is just so gosh darn finicky? i keep running into the same bug where the up and down works fine, but moving it left to right just rotates it!
and the more i try to mess with it to fix it, the worse it gets
crisp tendon
How does it look in Cats @magic sonnet
magic sonnet
in cats?
you mean in eye testing?
https://imgur.com/a/sJnkrwa heres what it looks like
ive tried removing the original eye bones, but it just causes the up and down to move left and right, and for left and right to stay broken
crisp tendon
Yeah then your rig is most likely to blame
The bone is straight up and roll is reset ?
magic sonnet
it needs to be straight up?
magic sonnet
hmm, cant ever remember having a model with straight up eye bones
crisp tendon
If you didn't then I guess the error makes sense
That's how the rotation is calculated
magic sonnet
not how i would have done it but then again it wasnt my choice
crisp tendon
I think it's an industry standard
opal river
do we have a link or something to what the bone hierarchy is supposed to look like? with the exact names and stuff. I know I've seen it posted a few times but there's no pin 😐
tough robin
opal river
okay, so... it's just RShoulder, RArmUpper, RArmLower etc? I remember someone posted the full hierarchy with naming convention
tough robin
The names dont really matter as you can set any bones to any bone in unity
opal river
yeah but doesn't it try to do it automatically first?
weak oar
Kaithyl's Bong Hierarchy?
tough robin
Just covert any mmd model and bam you have the exact hierarchy
opal river
mkay
now if only I could actually import these models into blender 2.8
nevermind, apparently cats doesn't work with 2.81 yet
opal aurora
//CodeBlockType is fix
Armature Naming Scheme Layout
|>Parent
|-----Child
&
Parent
Child
=
|>Hips
| Spine
| |>Chest
| | Neck
| | |>Head
| | |-----RightEye
| | |-----LeftEye
| |
| |-----Right shoulder
| | Right arm
| | Right elbow
| | Right wrist
| |
| |-----Left shoulder
| Left arm
| Left elbow
| Left wrist
|
|-----Right leg
| Right knee
| Right ankle
| Right toe
|
|-----Left leg
Left knee
Left ankle
Left toe
thanks, this is what I was referring to
opal aurora
I wrote it down but never asked for it to be pinned, it'd probably also look kinda compressed in the pins
crystal vector
@opal river Try out the dev version, it should work in 2.81
floral glade
Does anyone seen a tutorial where an Eye is rigged to bone which is facing straight up (like vrc avatar has to be)
All videos I ve seen have bone placed horizontally which make a lot more sense for rigging
weak oar
I found the direction of the bone doesn't make that much difference to be honest, unless there's some sideeffect I'm not aware of.
tough robin
@floral glade the process of rigging the bone is the same
floral glade
If it is horizontally placed you see how it will move since you place head of the bone on flat (anime style) eye and tail is rotation point
if it is vertically placed I have no idea how it will move
manic solar
Working on a new avatar, and I'm being told that the viewpoint sinking down when sitting/laying down has been fixed, but that's not what i'm experiencing with my avatar O:!! just wondering if anyone knows the trick to stop this from happening? ❤
weak oar
My friend said the key to fix this was to make the neck really small and the head bigger.
Not sure why that helps, but it basically fixed it for him.
floral glade
Before the fix was to tranfer weight from neck to head bone, but apparently it is not reccomended anymore
manic solar
hmmmmmmm, i tried lengthening the neck bone, will test that out tomorrow, if not i'll try to shorten it. my friend is telling me that she has a long neck and it works fine, not sure what the magic bullet is and she doesn't seem to know either
weak oar
@floral glade No changes to the weight painting, purely changing the size of the bone.
But yeah, my friend's neck was, well, neck length before and it would go into the chest. Now he's made it much smaller and his eyeline stays exactly where you'd expect.
manic solar
Oooh, okay. I'll experiment with changing the neck allot. Is it possible to stop it sinking completely? Or can I always expect just a little bit of sinking when sitting, for example? Right not it sinks from eye level to nose level when sitting up straight. Just wondering what I should be realistically shooting for
crisp tendon
It's pretty difficult to adjust to that extent
King published a video on how to get there, but it might not be for all models
weak oar
@manic solar That was the issue my friend had. Sank into the snout when sitting, into the chest entirely when lay down. Making the neck much smaller fixed it, although I have no idea why.
opal river
hmm, I think I fucked something up. I created a basic rig, then I selected my mesh, shift selected the armature, did ctrl+p with automatic weights, then I was able to select the armature, go into pose mode, select a single bone, shift select the mesh and go into weight paint mode and change stuff. I could also pose the rig and everything worked. then I cleared the parent of the mesh with alt+p and now when I try to parent it to the armature again I can do the select bone + shift select mesh anymore, I can't select the mesh
naive tree
you can add armature modifier on mesh and put the armature in slot@opal river
opal river
okay
so... this is happening https://gfycat.com/FavorableHonoredEarthworm
I assume that's because of bad topology?
or are my bones placed badly
opal river
https://i.imgur.com/Jmfw4zT.png like that?
crisp tendon
Yeah, shoulder bone should be much smaller though, because it will badly ever move in vrc
merry estuary
@opal river Striving to become character artist?
crisp tendon
So its weight paint shouldn't be as important
opal river
crisp tendon
Maybe not that high for the arm
But it's always some try and retry kind of thing with weight paint
opal river
yeah, that's what I feared...
crisp tendon
It's a cool process, don't beat yourself down
opal river
https://i.imgur.com/5tsKdXV.png does this look okay?
crisp tendon
Yeah, you might have to smooth it out though
opal river
ok so I assume in vrchat it's actually going to do the movement using the shoulder and arm bone with IK and stuff?
https://i.imgur.com/vrMuo8T.png I guess that looks okay?
opal river
so... it's all dependant on the upper arm bone?
wet hollow
The IK actually uses the shoulder quite a bit for non FBT
It's very evident when using an avatar with a nicely weight painted shoulder
crisp tendon
the bone itself or the weight paint ?
in fbt the bone is used when you reach your arms up next to your head
opal river
https://i.imgur.com/Gx0IjTk.png I'm so lost...
crisp tendon
do you have weight paint on your shoulder bone at all ?
opal river
https://i.imgur.com/tazg62y.png I feel like this is not how it's supposed to be
yes
crisp tendon
You can use the fred model in the sdk, the blue guy, and see the differences
opal river
that's what I've been doing
but it's kinda broken
https://i.imgur.com/LqFktR2.png this is what the armature looks like when I import the model
crisp tendon
ohm yeah those are some shoulders lol
wet hollow
As when I move my arms in non-fbt it actually uses the shoulders correctly
When I'm in FBT it only uses the shoulders when I drop my arms down
crisp tendon
might be a parent connection thing then
crisp tendon
yeah then connection probably makes sense in both cases
fading verge
Can I get some assistance with a first time avatar creation?
crisp tendon
@fading verge That's what this channel is for ! Ask away
fading verge
That's the thing, I've never done anything like it
I have never used an sdk, never used the Unity Hub, nothing, this is all new to me
crisp tendon
Oh, if it's a general question about that then you can follow https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/setting-up-the-sdk
fading verge
Yeah I went to that page, but I have no clue what an SDK is or how to set one up
fading verge
Okay
opal river
https://i.imgur.com/nC7wkST.png I guess that's as good as it gets for now...
crisp tendon
you should adjust the gradient to a 45 degree angle like this /
your arm should't move too much skin on top of your shoulder
opal river
ok
opal river
https://i.imgur.com/HUkTyD8.png is it normal for the crotch to do that? the example avatar has it the same way
crisp tendon
Depends on the hip weight paint
opal river
that's with the legs in a seated position btw
crisp tendon
and you had good topology so adjust either
yeah no one said it was easy, it's often very complex and why professionals take years to learn it
yo need to use more automated weight paint and smoothing, gradients for big adjustments
your paint is too messy
opal river
well with automatic weights it's an even bigger mess
it's like wherever I add weight it just moves the area that's clipping into the body
also I have no idea how to use the gradient tool, it makes no sense to me
also, should I apply the mirror modifier to the mesh?
crisp tendon
Gradient should be your best friend at this point
It's the best way to get smooth weight paint on big surfaces
I've never used the mirror modifier, so I'm not sure
opal river
on the mesh itself?
opal river
hm, interesting. after applying the mirror modifier to the mesh and having it do automatic weights for the whole rig it's actually not too bad
crisp tendon
yeah automatic weight paint is pretty good
fervent hornet
Usually easier to use auto then fix it instead of starting from nothing, given your mesh is watertight
opal river
yeah I think it was the mirror modifier that messed it up before
when I had that and tried automatic weights it was very janky
echo drift
ok, time got away from me. But I figured out how to align the hip bone to the legs. but I get the same issue with the body collapsing in on it's self.
The foot trackers are buried in the ground when I'm in VRChat btw.
I'm beginning to think that my failed attempts at jigglebones are screwing me up somehow
crisp tendon
yeah you can't really do that with armatures
What you can do is have the neck straight up like the spine, basically moving everything in edit mode, and see how it looks in vrc
as long as you adjust the view position it should look fine for you
echo drift
figured. if that fixes it I guess I'll live with it. that is IF it fixes it
crisp tendon
yeah
your fingers don't seem placed correctly though
not sure if on purpose or not
echo drift
I could fix that, but the head is fine???
crisp tendon
you'll only know when you try
opal river
https://i.imgur.com/dt73BwH.png is this armature for the hand okay or should I add bones for the metacarpals too?
astral ridge
my armature in unity is not connected to the mesh even though it has been weighted in blender, does anyone know how to fix this
sleek isle
@opal river vrchat wont use more then what you already have
opal river
okay
opal river
ok so generally speaking, what helps the most with having nice smooth transitions when doing weight painting? denser topology, good edge flow, ???
opal aurora
I think both help alot, a denser topology allows for more control, giving you the possibility to gradient an area more effectively (more value transition options on a any given area), whereas edge flow, as far as i understood it, allows for more accurate, if not smoother, movements in said area
opal aurora
I'm not sure if it keeps the old or new weight paint data depending on the modifier being there or not... maybe keep a backup just incase
opal river
okay
echo drift
Ok it's still putting the feet trackers in the ground and I don't know why
weak oar
How does the rig look after doing a Pose > Reset, Pose > Enforce T-Pose in Unity?
echo drift
the weird beak thing is the regular upright head bone connecting to the eyeballs out front
here's what it looks like in blender
@weak oar btw it does nothing
weak oar
If you go into pose mode in Blender and move the bones around, do the respective parts of the mesh move?
and lol, what is happening in that rig picture in Unity? Looks like something is very broken.
merry estuary
Maybe they tried that secure avatar thingy of CATS?
echo drift
Yeah it's the cats secure thing
echo drift
and the weight paints are fine
echo drift
OK. Weird Update. I tried one of the other prebuilt avatars with the feet trackers and it does the same thing. The feet trackers are buried in the ground. I'm beginning to think this isn't a rigging issue now.
empty iris
VR Chat SDK is telling me that my rig isn't humanoid, even though it most assuredly is. I do have ears and a tail which aren't yet animated in any way, could the extra unknown bones be causing the problem?
crisp tendon
create a new scene, close unity, reopen it and then open your main scene
which i think should fix it
crisp tendon
Are you sure all the bones are mapped correctly ?
empty iris
Besides the bones in the ears and tail, yes.
Maybe I have the VR Chat Avatar Descriptor on the wrong object. I think it's on the mesh.
crisp tendon
ah yeah that'd explain it
empty iris
Yeah, there's my problem.
empty iris
Okay, new problem: in game my avatar's wrists have a balloon twisting effect when I rotate around my hands. Is there a fix for this?
crisp tendon
Any screenshot ?