So you can just set the Empty's coords to 0,0,0 and then set the other models Y and Z (side-by-side lineup) coords to 0 and they'll be proper setup
#avatar-rigging
weak oar
Weirdly enough that didn't seem to work, I had to drag the prefabs into the scene as new models. The old ones just insisted that 0,0,0 was somewhere else.
opal aurora
Even with the empty at 0? :o
That's pretty odd then, it should follow the empty as the global coord variable
weak oar
Even dragging them back out the empty and into the top level, they wouldn't reset back properly. Dragging a new copy of the model in works fine. It's a bit weird. Luckily Pumpkin can copy over all the bits.
opal aurora
Well that's unity being unity i guess
weak oar
Well, thanks for the help tonight. As it's nearing 6am I should probably go to bed now.
rich dew
My avatar's eyes keep going into the back of their head, even though the pre-testing with the eye tracking looked perfectly fine in both Unity and Blender.
Anybody know what could be causing this?
fading verge
Hey @crystal vector will you be updating cats' fullbody fix to apply how vrchat's guidelines recommend doing full body fixes? Or will you be sticking with what is currently implemented
fiery spear
im having issues with my right arm being "pulled" away and my whole body being shifted left. Never had this issue until after the update I have Oculus and Kinect
teal badge
Did you set any custom animations to idle or movement?
fiery spear
nope
prettt much box standard
if i close kinect2vr and it switches back to standard mode it goes back to normal
when i calibrate i make sure im standing still and hands lineup
teal badge
Does it fit the new regulations for FBT?
fiery spear
i did the roll reset ad removed the extra bones, never did the neck fix. is there anything else?
fiery spear
my hip bone is nomal size so i guess not, bit why would it just completely move the sholder bone?
fading verge
it could be the entire body shifting slightly
fiery spear
let me check in blender but im pretty sure its mirror image
both sholder bones looks to be fine there at 0.048 and -0.048 repectivly
I went and shrinked the hip bone so ill see if that makes any differance
ok so it seems to kida fix it my body is still shifted somewhat to the left but my arm is still inspave
one of my older avatar seems to have the same issue
when sitting it shifts the other way
crystal vector
@fading verge I already removed the fbt fix and implemented the recommended way as default. It's currently only in the dev version, but I will release it soon
fading verge
ahh, okay! Great!
cunning talon
Question, is there going to be any way to fix old FBT models if you only have the FBX of them?
wind osprey
yeah, just import the fbx into blender and get fixin'
cunning talon
The thing is, I wouldn't know how.
wind osprey
file > import > fbx
cunning talon
I meant fixing it.
wind osprey
Depends on what hacky workarounds were applied to the rig to make it work nicer with the old FBT system
cunning talon
I just used cats fbt thing
wind osprey
I hear the latest cats version has a "undo nasty FBT hacks" button added to it
So if you're lucky it could be a one-click fix
not 100% sure though, I don't use cats at all for anything.
cunning talon
Okay... Thanks I'll have a look.
agile saffron
Honestly I tried an avatar with no full body fix and the legs look fine, but the hips still look weird.
While my fully body fix avatar looks great.
gritty sandal
is there any way to fix this weird wrist bone situation?
this is how it looks in game
crisp tendon
Fix your wrist bone ?
fiery spear
have you tried pulling its tail in edit mode to line up where the wrist is. Could also be weight painting from what it looks like in game
your jacket sleeve ends does not look to be painted to the bone
stark musk
Will I be able to animate an avatar that doesn't have fingers in unity (for gestures)?
Currently rigging a runescape avatar and obviously they don't have fingers, should I just make finger bones anyways?
stark musk
Animating gestures?
Like fingergun, or fist for example?
I guess I will anyways, not sure where I'll put them though lol
crisp tendon
Oh, that's not animating
it just needs to have three fingers per hand to have IK
then the animation are provided automatically
custom gestures is another thing
stark musk
yeah I was talking about custom gestures
I'll add finger bones anyways then.
Would this be fine for "fake" bones? @crisp tendon
or did I subdivide too many times?
crisp tendon
You only need two bones for three fingers at minimum
but this is fine if you've already made them
stark musk
alright
Oh also, does the rotation for the bones matter?
I have them facing forwards since the model isn't in a T pose.
just want to make sure I'm doing this right
crisp tendon
If they're not assigned any weight paint it doesn't matter
stark musk
How should I go about rigging a cape?
I just parented the bones of the cape to the chest bone via "keep offset."
crisp tendon
I'm not very skilled with capes
you'll most likely just add dynamic bones to some of them
stark musk
alright ty
digital willow
anyone know how to mirror a bone's angle after you moved the first?
digital willow
I already redid it manually. thank you though. only took me 1.5 h to get my avatar in to T-pose T_T
stark musk
Ah sorry 😦
digital willow
nothing to say sorry for Xd
brisk tulip
I am having a very strange issue
The tail bone in unity is having its Rotation and Position values updated by something constantly. But I have no idea what.
Right clicking them and reverting them back to prefab values only does it for a second before it goes back to the weird "Updated" values
wooden locust
Bruh moment
I'm a complete noob at this, how do I fix it
The left eye is fucked up
dont ever smoke no weed from the gas station bro
rich dew
I think #avatars-2-general is more appropriate for that, but I'm pretty sure you can just go into Edit Mode and re-align the bone. However, if the eye movement is the same when testing eye tracking as it is now, I wouldn't worry about it.
@wooden locust
wooden locust
Thanks that's pretty much all I needed.
Also it was a rigging issue so that's why I posted it here, but I'll be more careful when I'm using channels.
rich dew
Yeah, the channels here are pretty horribly set up.
rich dew
Okay, so something keeps pulling my avatar's pupils back inside the head. I tried moving the pupil vertices way out in the front of the avatar's face, but when I loaded the avatar in VRChat, the eyes still stay inside the head.
rich dew
Do the local space and global space need to be the same upon exporting from Blender?
high nova
@rich dew check the weight paint of the eyes, they might not be weighted to the head
try blender cats tool, pose mode to rotate the neck and head and see if the eyes stay in position
sharp sandal
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/224577435700559873/624645852912418826/unknown.png?width=941&height=555
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/224577435700559873/624642734505852928/unknown.png?width=514&height=676
um i have this problem where the hip bone is this tiny (image 1) in the armature and i think it causes a problem in game where the avatar is always tip toeing in the right leg(image 2), i was wondering how i could fix this. i heard scaling might be a fix but have no idea how to do it...
weak oar
Are both the leg bones in the same relative position(s) in Blender?
The hips being tiny is normal
rich dew
I did that, but the eyes are still inside the head, @high nova.
fading verge
Are you normals on the eyes flipped the right direction?
merry estuary
@sharp sandal You can try unmaping toes in Unity, that should fix tip toeing
weak oar
Or fix your height in-game
sleek isle
with the new ik rig. when I look down my hips flip forward and (show the panty to show an image). When I tilt my head left and right the hips tils the opposite way like am dancing.
that happen in regular vr
blissful onyx
No matter what I try; the arms are always too far to the sides:
https://gyazo.com/5beafa5ad3f36dd086858b0e80f34b25
(This happened after I clicked "fix model" in cats)
The rig in Unity:
https://gyazo.com/b624e4da18b1cc4ae250a045d75ac7e1
There is also weird behavior with the hip bones when walking
https://gyazo.com/0d9fde55b73840589e50d2b842cef3bf
Any ideas what could cause this?
weak oar
Arms are to do with should bone position, I believe. Regarding the hips, I'd check the bones in Blender, could be related to the new patch.
blissful onyx
I've checked the hip bone in Blender and it's the set as the root bone of the model
The things that confuses me is: The arms work just fine in Blender
It's only in Unity that they're this way
weak oar
VRChat will move the arms to try and fit your arms, so that's why it changes there.
That hip bone is upside down, it should also be slightly above the top of the legs, it's too close there.
(hips may act weird on full body avatars as of the latest patch, which is possibly what this is)
The hip should now look more like this..
And yeah, looking at it there, I think your shoulder bone is too far out, it should be more.. IN the shoulder, rather than the top of the arm.
Example...
blissful onyx
There are "Clav R" and "Clav L" bones that used to be the parents of the shoulders, but CATS decided to seperate them. Could that be the issue?
weak oar
Hmm, not sure to be honest.
blissful onyx
Making the shoulder bones shorter didn't really help much...
OH
That's actually the Clavicle bone, not the shoulder!
That fixed it!
Thank you! 🙂
weak oar
No worries, glad it worked 🙂
blissful onyx
Well, it still doesn't work, but at least I know what went wrong:
The "shoulders" are actually "Clav R" and "Clav L" which CATS didn't detect as shoulders
(To make things worse, cats just deleted one of them...)
weak oar
Erk
sleek isle
You need to rename the calvice bone to lshoulder before fix. Thats a know issue. Cats wont do magic
fading verge
isn't it left shoulder?
or we're you using a abbrevation
steel quest
I've been going through my avatars after the full body changes and I've come across one which now has bent knees (semi-crouched) with the hips and head being pulled way down after calibration
all my avatars have roughly human armspan:height and leg:height ratios and flipping the hip bone worked fine on the others
the only difference I see with this one is that it has a huge chest bone (proportionally)
anyone have any ideas as to why this is happening?
I also tried resizing and repainting the spine+chest here but it didn't make much of a difference
sleek isle
left shoulder / right shoulder
night kraken
need help weightpainting, anyone up to help me?
sleek isle
here the new rig and then the old. But with the new I got some weird hips rotation when I tilt my head like doing hips dancing.
and yes as you can see cats now merge one bone of the spine. So you better merge stuff manually and rename the shoulder bone before hitting fix
night kraken
@sleek isle hey can you help me?
this needs some weightpainting help
the body contorts when it does animations
sleek isle
With this body it will be impossible to make it look good in game
pseudo helm
my first avatar and im kinda lost can anyone suggest how i can fix this?
when i turn it all the way it moves the whole lower body
fading verge
Is it badly painted, do you use the automatic mode? that gives many problems
The avatar Did you just export it?
or is it a set of parts?
golden zenith
how should I go about doing the upper chest for the new full body changes?
does this look right?
weak oar
Looks right to me
Wait, I see hips, spine, chest, SOMETHING, neck
What's the something?
weak oar
I don't think so
The update doesn't mention upperchest and the IK guide linked still says... "Your rig has the UPPERCHEST mapped in the Humanoid Rig. This will cause problems with IK. Leave the upper chest bone blank when configuring your humanoid."
weak oar
Yeah, they mean literally the upper chest, not the bone
Which I can now see seems very confusing, especially the capitalisation
golden zenith
yeah, Im especially confused by cats
weak oar
Maybe CATS is just planning ahead
I'd actually try and get clarification from someone working on this because this is the first I've heard/seen of upper chest being supported now, but the capitalisation there and CATS option are making me question it.
golden zenith
yeah.. @ me if you find out more on it
weak oar
The full body page still doesn't mention upper-chest as part of the chain. https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/full-body-tracking
golden zenith
maybe just not updated yet?
weak oar
No, as that page now contains all the new hip information
(e.g. not flipped, gap between the legs and hip, etc)
leaden loom
can i have how can i have 2 models on me at once?
weak oar
Either paint 2 meshes or, more commonly I think people link the bones with ridged bodies.
gentle violet
Hey guys, does anyone know how to work the 'influence' option at the bottom of the MMD tools in CATS?
in blender it looks fine but it doesn't work in unity
Skirt moving in blender
Not moving in unity
bronze fern
Is it on the hip bone?
gentle violet
The root skirt is within the hip, and after i applied the influence, it created a load of 'shadow' versions which are also on the hip bone
median cargo
Ok, I have some questions
This is my rig of my current avatar, but whenever I'm standing up, it feels like my real legs are underneath the floor
can someone explain to me why the avatar does that, and how I can fix it?
wind osprey
It's a fucky mess of a distance from the head to the hand when in T-pose in unity and where the view position is set in the VRC avatar descriptor.
Longer arms result in the real floor going under VRC's floor level, and shorter arms result in VRC's floor going under the real one.
median cargo
So there's not really a good answer, is there?
wind osprey
There's two options.
Deal with the floor disparity
Re-proportion the avatar to something more humanoid (shorter arms, or longer legs generally)
median cargo
I think I'll just have to deal
wind osprey
Yeah, a human-proportioned panda would look weird as fuck
median cargo
Personally I'd rather deal with it than try messing with arms
Speaking of, I'm not quite sure where the wrist bone is supposed to end
wind osprey
Bone tails are a blender concept. They don't really translate to anything when going across to unity.
median cargo
It's moreso I get a clear idea as to if they're meant to be palms or something else
weak oar
Should bones like that be connected in Blender, or not? I always connect them so that if I move one, it moves the others but is there a rule about which you should do?
median cargo
I don't think so, but I prefer connecting them too
wind osprey
They don't have to be connected, but I almost always do since I'm used to making rigs in blender.
weak oar
Yeah, just thought I'd check so I don't dig myself into too much of a hole doing it wrong.
Ta
fading verge
Hey, not sure if this is the place to ask but, I'm having this error and I'm not sure what I've done wrong.
This is the rig.
The only error I get is the chest's bone length being zero, but that goes away if I take it off and then back on, so i'm not sure?
opal aurora
@wind osprey wouldn't lowering the origin (or raising the hips and repositioning viewpos) somewhat help?
The t-pose "wingspan" would be the same, much like the viewpos-to-arms difference, just a raised model overall
weak oar
@fading verge What about under the Head tab?
fading verge
I'm not sure I understand, there isn't any head tab.
This is the chest transform, but I don't know what's wrong with it or how to fix it.
fading verge
Oh ok.
weak oar
Also, do Pose > Reset, Pose > Enforce T-Pose to see if that moves that bone.
weak oar
Remove the jaw if you're using Visemes. Keep it if you're using "flappy jaw".
fading verge
I'm not sure what visemes or flappyjaw stands for.
weak oar
How will your avatar "talk"? Normally visimes are uses to form the mouth shapes. That or we can ignore all that for now and just work on getting the bones working.
fading verge
Yeah, I don't really mind that, I just want to figure out why it's saying the chest bone is zero length.
weak oar
Do you have the model open in Blender?
fading verge
Yeah.
fading verge
I don't know if it's just me, but I don't really see the chest's bone where it should be.
It says this is the chest.
weak oar
That looks all kinds of messy. Did you run CATS fix on this when you first loaded it?
fading verge
Yeah, I ran cats fix, but I don't really know if it did anything.
weak oar
It probably didn't like the bone names, although they look right in Unity so I'd expect it to be OK. Make a new save, then try running FIX again to see if anything happens.
fading verge
Did that just now, doesn't look any different. If you want, I could send you the download for the model and you could take a look at it upclose?
weak oar
Sure, but I won't be at a usable PC for another... 5 hours or so unfortunately.
For now, if it's only that bone being the problem you could probably just rotate it back into position, connect the hips, spine, chest, neck and then it should be happy.
fading verge
I'm not sure how I'd do that. I don't mind waiting, I need to head out in a minute anyway.
weak oar
I mean... that's not where your neck is
Oh, thanks Discord. Just refuse to upload the image and delete my comment, appreciated.
Apparently it's "explicit" and refused
Basically fixed the chest and noticed that this is supposedly the neck...
Hmm, actually doesn't look too bad. Lots of spurious bones but the core is easy enough to fix. I'll test it in Unity later as the weighting and such may still be unusable garbage even if the bone setup looks fine.
Seems sane now at least, I'll ping you later and let you know how well / if it works.
weak oar
Plus those textures may benefit from being run through an upscaling filter, e.g. Waifu2x, we'll see.
granite kestrel
@weak oar that looks like chaos, all your body bones need to be adjusted
You'll want to look at this youtube video for a basic crash course on making bones and moving them aroun-- oh wait this is Blender 2.8
weak oar
I know how to do it, I was checking someone else's mess.
weak oar
Though I am curious how well it works in it's current state with just the core bones fixed.
But after another fuck-you from VRC staff I think I'm done here to be honest. Have fun guys.
median socket
Quick, hopefully simple question. Is there any normal reason why a viseme configured avatar would have working lipsynch but not working eye tracking or blinking?
fading verge
@median socket this is the eyetracking and blinking checklist:
1- The bone hierarchy Hips->Spine->Chest->Neck->Head->{LeftEye,RightEye} must exist!
Exact names are required, there can be no in-between bones.
The bones don’t need any vertices skinned to them. They can be “empty”.
2- The blend shapes vrc.blink_left, vrc.blink_right, vrc.lowerlid_left, vrc.lowerlid_right must exist as the first four blend shapes. (index 0 through 3).
Exact order is required, names are actually unimportant though.
They can be the same as the basis shape. They can be “empty”, but blender won’t export empty blendshapes.
3- The skinned mesh must be named “Body”.```OK. Need to verify the joint names but the rest match up
Thanks!
Eye joints were LeftEye1 and RightEye 1
Here's hoping that fixes it
zinc aurora
Is correct parent structure required for arms? Im poking at a nonstandard avatar that has arms that sort of attach to the lower part of its large head
can i parent the arms to head and still get the default ik working?
crisp tendon
nope
zinc aurora
are there any ways to get around this issue? i wouldnt want the "shoulders" messing up when i look around but the body isnt turning
median socket
Well bugger. I went through and made sure all the bone/joint names were proper. No joy
The lipsync seems fine but no blinking or eye tracking. Order of the blendshapes is proper, names are proper, etc.
Even the Heirarchy is proper
crisp tendon
@zinc aurora Human skeleton behavior is for the body not to turn when your head does, so I'm not sure why you would try to do the opposite
@median socket Post pictures of your armature with bone names in blender
crisp tendon
Yeah you're missing two eye bones
median socket
?
crisp tendon
Unity doesn't use those, the correct way to do it includes having additional eye bones called Eye_L and Eye_R that have the weight painting
They're parented to RightEye and LeftEye respectively
Then it'll work
median socket
Wait, what? So I need to add more joints to the skeleton? Which one should be at the pivot of the eye then, LeftEye or Eye_L?
crisp tendon
Eye_L
weak oar
CATS creates Eye_L and Eye_R when you generate eye tracking doesn't it?
median socket
So... What's the LeftEye joint needed for?
weak oar
(using LeftEye and RightEye)
crisp tendon
Not that I'm aware. I've created them manually
@median socket no clue, I just know it needs to exist, be the parent to Eye_ and be parented to the head without weight paint
median socket
That's... OK... If that's what they require. Seems like a waste of data
crisp tendon
It doesn't really do much, so the waste is minimal
crisp tendon
yep
crisp tendon
Eye_L
median socket
OK. Thanks
Building now! Xing fingers.
I'm guessing that this doesn't work on Quest right?
Hmph. Still not working...
It doesn't matter what the eye geometry is named right? Does it have to be merged in with body? The example I've been following kept the eyes as separate geo...
crisp tendon
It should work on quest
but i don't know for sure if mesh joining is necessary
i would expect so
median socket
Back to the drawing board I guess
zinc aurora
When i start game mode the head tilts back about 90 degrees, i dont see any odd rotations on the bones, any suggestions?
crisp tendon
In blender, clear rools in edit mode for the armature and apply rotation on armature in object mode before exporting
echo tree
i forgot how to make this whole armature move with my avatars chest can someone help?
crisp tendon
it moves with the hips
crystal vector
@median socket No, put LeftEye into the eye slot in Unity.
VRChat won’t enable eye tracking at all unless three requirements are met:
1- The bone hierarchy Hips->Spine->Chest->Neck->Head->{LeftEye,RightEye} must exist! Those bones are also the ones you use in the mapping.
Exact names are required, there can be no in-between bones.
The bones don’t need any vertices skinned to them. They can be “empty”.
The Head bone and both Eye bones have to point straight up.
2- The blend shapes vrc.blink_left, vrc.blink_right, vrc.lowerlid_left, vrc.lowerlid_right must exist as the first four blend shapes in Unity. (index 0 through 3).
Exact order is required, names are actually unimportant though.
They can be the same as the basis shape. They can be “empty”, but blender won’t export empty blendshapes (but with CATS it now does).
3- The mesh containing the blinking blend shapes must be named “Body” and the armature must be named "Armature"
median socket
By armature, do you mean the root of the skeleton? I'm using Maya not Blender
crystal vector
I have no idea about how it works in Maya but give it a try
granite kestrel
@gentle violet You still trying to get that influence to work so your skirt doesn't suck?
I can't tell you how to directly get influencing working (are you utilizing the right bones?) but the only way to make the skirt work that I've seen, that comes out effectively, is as follows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SimRLR_lRcA
weak oar
Gonna break the cross posting rule on this one as it's important - Guys DYNAMIC BONES included in this months Humble Bundle - https://www.humblebundle.com/software/unity-2019-bundle
plucky terrace
median socket
So, did everything according the guidelines given here and everything looks right. Except the eyes are missing... Right now I have LeftEye and RightEye in the according slots of the avatar configuration. I've gotten mixed signals as to which ones should be in there. One person says those two, another says Eye_L and Eye_R.
median socket
OK. Swapping the two makes the eyes track, but their pointing in the wrong direction...
Looking at the sample avatar rig in the SDK, it does NOT have anything beyond LeftEye and RightEye. No Eye_L or Eye_R
So, this is getting a little confusing
sudden sorrel
anyone know why my lil avatar is stuck in t pose in game? I cant figure it out q-q https://gyazo.com/52d4bc9f7e701ff1a1def60598208280
median socket
What does the rest of the rig look, the legs/feet/head/.etc.
median socket
Hmm. And you have enforce T-pose turned on right?
I've never tried a rig without eyes before.
Are you using a humanoid rig?
If you are I think you need eyes...
sudden sorrel
yeah using humanoid
median socket
At least some bone that you can put in there
Doesn't have to be skinned to anything.
sudden sorrel
ill try both thank youuuuu
median socket
Good luck!
median socket
Any Maya users in here?
For some reason my eye joints are coming in rotated -90 on the Y when they aren't in Maya.
Is this a Y-up vs Z-up thing?
crisp tendon
definitely an export setting
Afaik Maya, Blender and unity have different orientations
but blender exports it for Unity
median socket
Yeah, Unity is Zup, Maya is normally Yup
median socket
Finally figured it out. For posterity, my eye joints were not zero-ed out. I had to remove them from the skin, 0 out their rotations, then re-bind and weight. That, along with the proper naming, got everything going. Have full Viseme lipsynch and eyetracking working now. Huzzah!
smoky lava
So i got a problem...
Look at my left hand
Weight paint seems 100% fine
Also in unity all fine
All fine in unity (dance)
crisp tendon
Well it's not t-posed
smoky lava
ikr did it on purpose
zinc aurora
Is there a way to test how an avatar looks without actually starting the game? like a way to have it walking in unity?
In unity the avatar stands alright but when in VRchat the feets are floating up off the ground and at an odd angle.
smoky lava
I always use dances, but sometimes their still is a difference in game.
So using the humanoid option on ur fbx file in u nity is safest
In my opninion
zinc aurora
Its set to humanoid but its a little of an awkward shape for it
dark pollen
Anyone know how to stop the mesh from vanishing when I zoom in/out? I figured it happens after I use Fix Model on CATs https://gyazo.com/78391d8a349a07e503d9dc7237cb0074
zinc aurora
Not sure where to find the setting but id guess it would be relating to clipping distance in blender
wind osprey
Yep, in the 3D view press n and look for the View section
zinc aurora
that might be it
zinc aurora
Might be called the same thing in 2.7x
and the clipping of a screenshot Gallium shared looks like the old interface
Im not very comfortable with blender either but i havnt really used it since back in 2017, now that im dipping back in ive been going through some basic tutorials to get a feel for the new interface
dark pollen
OKay so by default it's at
Start: 0.1
End: 1000
But as soon as I use CATs it set's it to 0.01 and 300. Even when I enter the previous settings, it doesn't fix
zinc aurora
sorry, cant help you there as i havnt dug into CATs beyond using it for generating visimes
seems odd that it would mess with the view distance tho
dark pollen
Mmm yeah
I'll try installing an older version of CATs
It's my first time doing VRChat in about 2 months. Worked fine until I decided to give it a shot today and update CATs oTL
OKay yep, def was that most recent version of CATs messing with it. The version before works fine :)
I was wrong, it still does it when I use pose mode :'^)
turbid spear
What happens if you press . on the numpad with something selected. Doesn't that change the clipping plane
dark pollen
Nothing :(
It works fine when I don't use fix model, I'll see if I can avoid using that
turbid spear
Definitely looks like a bug then
dark pollen
On a similar topic, are there any decent guides for making avatars with new Blender?
turbid spear
I'd look at some general 2.8 tutorials as most of the work you do with cats is the same
Grant abitt has some nice 2.8 tutorials that don't drag on for 20 minutes like blender guru's
crystal vector
@dark pollen That's an issue with the new amd drivers, downgrade to version 19.4.3 released on April 22th
turbid spear
That said materials look different in 2.8. In 2.7 you could just hit shadeless and everything would look right. In 2.8 i'm not even sure
dark pollen
It is? That's annoying. Recently updated because Oculus wasn't having any of my old drivers
dark pollen
@crystal vector My drivers were actually on 19.4.2 but going up to .3 seems to have fixed it. Thank you :>
crystal vector
Ok interesting, so they fixed it and then broke it again 🤔
sleek isle
the new rig for the fbt make the hips go all funky. the old way have no issue. So I stick with that
modern path
Hey guys having a wee bit of a problem with my avatar, anybody know of crumpled fingers?
cats is mounting the bone perpendicular to the finger tip joint, no clue as to why
Any solutions? This is a CM3D2 model properly ported and set up correctly, past 2 weeks been having this issue tried going to 15 and 14 of CATS and going back to Blender 2.79
opal aurora
If i recall correctly, that's the general limitation with setting those models up, due to the varying scales i imagine, it's not possible to connect the last bones per finger properly, whereas all the bones prior could be connected to their child/parent, if memory serves me proper, this has always occured.
This can likely be avoided as an issue in unity by not exporting it with leaf bones i imagine (the _end bones)
@modern path
blissful cedar
hello everyone, is it ok to ask here for help in rigging an avatar i'm having trouble with ? if yes then if anyone is able please help and if no then sorry and ignore this message.
crisp tendon
What do you think this channel is for if not for rigging questions ?
weak oar
Avatars designed specifically for fixed gambling
merry estuary
@blissful cedar Nobody here is able to help you because you didn't tell what problem you have
modern path
@opal aurora You my friend are a lifesaver
arctic elbow
Having issues with fbt since the fbt changes but everything was perfect before.
Any suggestions would be wonderful. Already tried everything in the new "this is how you do thing" guild
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/415073302873112586/626826116254138401/VRChat_1920x1080_2019-09-26_17-54-44.027.png
blissful cedar
ok i have a model but it only have a source ( a .blender) and the textures folder, i tried importing it to blender but it doesn't work, opening the blender source opens blender with the model but not only it has no texture ( note that the texture are in but not showing and even changing some settings on the texture doesn't do anything ) i tried to use the cats plugin but it doesn't do much outside of messing the textures to a point where i need to go back, i was wandering if 1 - can i somehow turn the blender source into a usable file to use it with cats plugin or 2 - fixing the textures ; also note that i rarely use blender and the last time i even attempted to use it was last year ( thankfully the last one wasn't this bad )
crisp tendon
@arctic elbow What are the bones between leg and hips ?
also your chest is in your hip
@blissful cedar opening a model in blender won't open the textures with it
crisp tendon
it's either a manual process of through cats if the textures are in the same folder/name correctly
@arctic elbow Try resetting rolls in edit mode on bones and applying rotation on the armature in object mode
arctic elbow
side view if it helps
rolls are all 0 already checked em basically everything in the https://docs.vrchat.com/v2019.3.2/docs/full-body-tracking Is already done and double checked and checked by another person.
currently double check that my bones are a perfect mirror but they seems to be that too
can confirm all bones are a perfect mirror aswell
fixed now. By unparenting and reparenting the legs to the hips. No clue why this worked but someone suggested it by saying "just trust me" and bizarrely it helped. unity/blender logic
crisp tendon
they might not have been first in line, because the butt bones also are parented, and that could have caused issues
blissful cedar
how can i put the textures in blender ( using the 2.80 version ) ?
zinc aurora
@blissful cedar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nht2RoYBUfA&feature=youtu.be&t=296 Heres how to get a texture to show up, assuming its properly associated to the model to begin with.
turbid spear
This is even better https://puu.sh/ElNZt/a184658348.png
You aren't going to render anything
dusky quartz
dark pollen
Uh so somehow a hair and part of the horn got caught with the eye visemes? Anyone know how to fix? https://gyazo.com/0dff6fb1f6516ab6a429838577b588a2
I tried deleting the horns and re-pasting them but once they get merged it happens again
turbid spear
That happens if you make any vertex changes while a shape key (viseme) is selected
The vertex position changes become part of that viseme
Select the whole face, mouth eyes etc. (everything you want to keep the visemes) Press P to separate selection. Then select the object that doesn't have the face in the hierarchy. Expand it, find the shape keys and delete them.
Then select both meshes and join them again with ctrl+j
In general when editing the mesh make sure to have the basis viseme selected. You can also separate the head and hide it and join everything at the end
Some models have blendshapes for their bodies too. If you want to keep that just separate what gives you issues (in this case all horns and hair mesh) and just delete the visemes on those.
dark pollen
Oooh thanks! Thought I was gonna have to replace the face but that saved me a bunch of time
weak oar
Easier way of fixing it if that bit you need to fix isn't part of any shape keys - make sure you've got Basis selected, select all the affected tris and then do "Propagate Shapekey"
turbid spear
Never figured out how that worked when I tried to revert verices to basis in some cases
I usually just keep head separate and delete keys from the rest to make sure there aren't vertices I didn't notice when that happens 🤷
alpine raft
For Shape propagate, just select the verticies you want to remove all shapekey influence from and make sure you've selected basis key and hit the shape propagate button :)
There is another method for removing individual key influence
Oh, sorry Enverex, I just repeated some of what you said already
weak oar
😛
turbid spear
Good to know regardless
mint sequoia
anyone mind giving me insight or tips ? or help with dynamic bones in vrchat?
weak oar
Dynamic bones are very simple to add in, but a lot of work to get perfect. What are you stuck with?
blissful cedar
@zinc aurora yes this is exactly what i was stuck on, ok now that all the texters are in how do i keep them there ? if i go back to the default view they are not there do i only need to save it now ?
sleek isle
To fix weird thumb on the index controler. Simply assign 2 bone. Might do the trick🤔
weak oar
That's the trick I've used too. Is that what you're supposed to do? I've not noticed any side effects doing it that way...
weak oar
You're like the 6th person in the last fortnight to some in with that issue. Was reparenting the leg bones the fix for it?
gentle totem
no, the hips are out of line for some reason
weak oar
Yeah, one's pulled up isn't it?
weak oar
Unparent and reparent the upper legs to the hips, then connect the hips to the chest, then retry. The alignment may be an issue though.
weak oar
Which did you move?
crystal vector
@gentle totem How did you fix it?
gentle totem
re-aligned the hips and waist bones so that they were almost all connected
Made it like 180 degrees
opal aurora
Oh i remember fixin' that model up for someone ages ago, that sure was a mess...
weak oar
That's something the SDK warns you about when uploading in the first place isn't it?
opal aurora
Don't think it did back then, or atleast accurately for that model, i think having it just 6° off still caused the issue, having to go a whole 180° off the average angle or something
Either having to have the hips completely reversed or flat (aligned with floor angle)
weak oar
I know it complains on one of my models, saying it should be 180' but it's 176.4' so it seems pretty pedantic there.
opal aurora
I did end up fixing it, think i matched up the bones proper, fixed up rolls, then re-applied the humanoid rig
After alot of back&forth tinkering
But before i think it did work with a 90° (angle matching with floor) hip bone, somehow
weak oar
That said, my body is straight so there's not really much excuse for my hips being off... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610651208767504427/623205171849068564/unknown.png
I noticed that in full body, once I calibrate, the upper legs rotate slightly which is weird (both legs seem to rotate inwards a little).
opal aurora
Do you have your leg-to-knee bone connection a tad too straight perhaps?
weak oar
... should it not be?
I keep forgetting to copy everything over to my NAS so I can access it remotely on the server. It's only on my desktop and I can't get to it from here 😦 bleh
opal aurora
They should have a slight bend if i recall correctly, as unity sometimes confuses which way is forward otherwise
weak oar
lol
opal aurora
That's what cause those twisted/bent sideways leg issues mostly
That and changing rolls without re-applying the humanoid rig, as unity would enforce the old rolls, twisting whatever was edited back into place, which just means very twisted
weak oar
Yeah, I always Pose > Clear, Pose - Enforce after every single FBX update anyway.
Actually, the legs look like they aren't straight down here, I'll need to double check that https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/361742235525709825/624962532079042560/unknown.png
Ah, no, it's because of the A pose, that should be fine https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/361742235525709825/624991411028099101/unknown.png
Ok, so this is how I've got my legs on all my human avatars configured atm https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337801456415539200/623986803854278674/unknown.png
So you're saying they should bend slightly? Back I assume? (as knees don't allow your leg to bend forward)
opal aurora
They should be pretty much pulled between their connection, forward, to bend them in the proper direction
weak oar
But only a tiny amount, I assume?
opal aurora
As long as they don't leave your legs, all should still work properly, so just a bit yeah
Enough to see a slight difference
weak oar
Doesn't T-Pose end up then "unbending" it slightly which would leave your legs slightly bent by default?
opal aurora
It may actually do that, by about the same length you pulled it i assume
weak oar
Yeah, so just do it an incredibly tiny amount then. That said, I've not noticed any issues from straight legs. My human avatars have all been fine, it's specifically my biped dragon
opal aurora
It might be something entirely different in your case then....
gentle totem
@weak oar @opal aurora it usually does warn for out of alignment hips, but for some reason this one didn't
steep solar
Why does this happen? Everything looks fine in t pose before 'locking in' but after my thighs and feet rotate inwards, shins stay as they should be
All leg bones are set at 0° roll in blender
Rig looks alright to me
alpine raft
What I do is make sure the head of the leg bones and the head of the hips are in line in the y axis and also make sure the hip is directly vertical
That’s always works for me
Not sure exactly what the problem could be though
crisp tendon
@steep solar Make sure the upper leg-ankle bone line isn't completely straight too
looks like it might actually be bent inwards
which would explain the issue
wind osprey
Them legs look perfectly straight (as in no knee bend) which ain't good for IK
crisp tendon
straight as an arrow
also your lower leg is weirdly placed compared to the rest of the model
almost as if you dragged the bone backward
steep solar
The only thing i did to leg bones is scale them down
So height to wingspan is 1:1
And by leg bones i mean whole legs
Gonna try those tips now
crisp tendon
You could try using the sculp tool to drag the lower leg forward as a whhole
and then move the bone, then bend the knee
wind osprey
Yeah, the knee needs some bend to it otherwise the IK gets funky
steep solar
I really hope this will help, spent 6 days trying to fix this
Wasn't cats fix option supposed to add a tiny bend to the knee?
I thought it was done but now looking at it, legs really are straight
gentle totem
is there a way to make it so jiggle-boned hair doesn't flow through my body?
sleek isle
soo having a butt bone would make the hips funky. or its more then that. ether way. still have no of those problem with the old fbt rig
brazen snow
Heya, would like to ask something
these arm bones
they do have weight data but
they didn't transfer
anyone know how to link the existing weight data?
opal aurora
Name the bone the same as the vertex group it's supposed to move or rename the vertex group to your current bones' name, both names must be identical
weak oar
I may have caught boneitus..
merry estuary
Too many squats. Stop it. Get some rest.
opal aurora
Please refrain from detatching legs, it's bad for your health
weak oar
They said I could become anything, so I became a seat.
opal aurora
I could make a seat pun, but i'm afraid it wouldn't stand
weak oar
weak oar
Unity does NOT like me trying to undo the FBT fix on this avatar, it's just getting worse
opal aurora
Did ye re-apply the humanoid rig to reset it to default configurations?
weak oar
Tried a reset and repose, didn't help. Unrigged and rerigged back to humanoid, didn't help.
opal aurora
That ain't good... perhaps unity is taking the wrong bones for the left/right orders
That or your bone rolls are offset and twisting the legs accordingly
Or both
weak oar
Works and poses fine in Blender, so that's weird...
opal aurora
I mean, i think unity matches all the rolls to a certain value, for the most part it's good practice (unity-wise) to set them all to 0
Still think unity is picking left for right and right for left though... but the feet seem normal, that aside
weak oar
People have mentioned bone rolls to me before. How do I check what they are in Blender and Unity?
opal aurora
You can check them in blender in the N menu
weak oar
Hmm, is there a shortcut to zero them?
opal aurora
Alt+R in edit mode
weak oar
Thanks
Ok, there was a LOT of roll on those bones
Hmm, so should ALL bones be 0 roll?
wind osprey
Ideally yeah
weak oar
If so, may be worth CATS man adding that as a button, as it could be useful
@crystal vector 0 all bone rolls button as an idea?
wind osprey
If my rolls are janky I use ctrl+n to recalculate them, usually along local x tangent.
weak oar
I just went into bone edit mode, selected all bones, did Alt+R, typed 0 into the box, hit enter and that seemed to do all of them.
Seemed to work
So under what circumstance would you ever use bone rolling in VRChat, or would that be never?
opal aurora
Hmm, if i recall correctly, the fix model button automatically sets all rolls to 0
weak oar
Ah. I've avoided using that except during initial import though as I wasn't sure what else it may change or break on an avatar that's been worked on in Blender since being imported.
opal aurora
Yep some things can get funky
wind osprey
So a lot of bones in my rig have some pretty hoopy rolls to them, but I think it's not a problem as they're all consistent. Arm bones all have the x axis going the same way, same for the legs, etc.
opal aurora
Yeah consistent rolls should work fine, unless unity for some reason decides to press the alarm at some point
weak oar
So I fixed the FBT which was broken since the last update (caused my legs to rotate inwards a bit) and it looks fine in rigging after resetting...
But in the scene...
I've selected all the bones and set them to revert to prefab which worked in the past, but didn't do anything this time around.
I think it's the dynamic bones. Ok so here's a question about an issue I ran into the other day.
When you first add dynamic bones to a bone, it seems to save some information about that bone. Then, when dynamic bones is used from that point onwards, it will revert the bone it's attached to.
Is it possible to get dynamic bones to "refresh" the bone it's attached to, to get the current data instead? (turning it off and back on doesn't work)
opal aurora
Disable the dynamic bone to disable its "tracking" mechanism
It's always a good idea to disable all your dynamic bones on any FBX update as any variation on your model would be reverted on the active dynamic bone it affects
Re-enabling it will make it take the current bone's positions into account rather than reverting it
weak oar
It doesn't, that's the problem. It only takes the current bones position if I delete it entirely and add it back. Disabling and reenabling it has no effect
opal aurora
It needs to be disabled on the update, disabling it after won't revert the bone to its prior state
You simply stop the dynamic bones from tracking any position changes by disabling them before updating your FBX, and then on re-enabling the dynamic bones, they will take the new position variables instead of reverting to old ones
It's the same thing as removing the dynamic bone component and adding a new one after an update, but far faster and easier since no values are lost and all dynamic bone components can be enabled by mass selecting them
weak oar
Ahh
Going through the armature to manually disable them all every time I update would be... annoying
Is there any downside to sticking them inside a dummy component at the top level? That way I can just disable the dummy component to disable them all.
e.g.
opal aurora
Some users set all their dynamic bone components on the root of the model and simply add the specific roots directly from there, personally i don't do that as dynamic bones work better when directly placed on the proper bone
weak oar
It seems to work exactly the same as before to be honest, so that should be fine.
opal aurora
That's good then, ye got a faster alternative now
weak oar
Also it's easier for me to adjust them and keep track of them.
When you said "as dynamic bones work better when directly placed on the proper bone" - what issues have you seen?
Hmm, still hasn't helped. Let me move dbones off entirely
Ah, I think I know what's happening
It's trying to revert to the prefab I made, not the FBX (on the other person's advice)
opal aurora
It's not so much issues as it is reliably moving things, i think it even affects how gravity values are taken into account, but that' i'm not entirely sure of, basically in a sense the same concept of dynamic bones working much better on a pivot point for each chain of bones rather than a single pivot for multiple chains (i.e. ye olde sliding hair off of head issues that people had to change values around to fix)
weak oar
I don't think any of that is affected by where you add the component, it seems to use whatever you set the root to.
opal aurora
I can't recall exactly what shifted, but i recall Rokk having some issues way back when, in which setting the components directly on the bone they affected fixed ehm quite nicely
It was either relating to gravity in some manner or responsiveness/fidelity
weak oar
Curious, I'll try it on my avatar that I acutally use gravity on to see if it behaves differently.
Ok, so how do I get this model to go back to using the FBX rather than the (wrong) prefab?
Or how would I fix the prefab itself? (can't see any way to modify it)
opal aurora
I avoid making prefabs of things personally (even though the model on a scene is a prefab) so sadly i'm unsure
weak oar
I'd avoided it until I think it was Pumpkin told me I should use them, and now they're already causing issues lol
mmm, yeah, the ones not linked to the prefabs fixed themselves just fine. So for now prefabs = bad.
turbid spear
If you want to go back to fbx you drag in a new one
I keep prefabs for different versions of the same model too with no issues
But to modify the prefab itself you drag an instance of it into the scene, make changes then click apply top right in the inspector
weak oar
But dragging in a new one means I've lost all the stuff I added and then have to copy it over from the broken copy...
turbid spear
Wouldn't reverting to the fbx do the same tho? Or do you mean reverting only the prefab stuff and not the stuff you added
I generally keep multiple prefabs for the same thing anyway, same for blender files.
What is your issue anyway?
You can drag in a fbx prefab and copy transforms with my tools if that's what your problem was
weak oar
When you try and reset Transformations, there's a "Reset to Prefab" option which normally reverts to the FBX. It seemed to be reverting to the Prefab instead which in turn seemed to be storing the (bad) data, or something like that.
turbid spear
I think newer unity can have prefab variants to prevent stuff getting overwritten by creating a newer prefab
weak oar
It's fine, I'll just avoid prefabs as I can't see anything I gain from using them
turbid spear
Fair enough
Reset to prefab resets everything tho, not just the transforms. If that's what you want fair enough, but for my uses it usually isn't. To each their own I suppose, but as I said you can just copy the transforms over with the copier to fix your current issue
weak oar
No, I was doing revert to prefab on the transformation alone.
Basically I'd changed some of the bone stuff in the FBX and it wouldn't reset because of dynamic bones, but I couldn't seem to reset it because it just reverted it back to what was stored in the prefab, rather than the new data in the update FBX.
turbid spear
I see
weak oar
Normally disabling dynamic bones (or removing it) then resetting the wrongly positioned bones is fine, but because those positions seemed to be saved in the Prefab, nothing happened, as the positions in the prefab said they should be in location X, despite them being in location Y in the FBX. I guess that's how prefabs are supposed to work so it makes sense, but worked against me in this instance.
turbid spear
Yeah, unity 2019 gives you more options when reverting
weak oar
I look forward to using it... in 2028
turbid spear
🤷🏼
steep solar
I would like to thank Ruuubick and Gallium for helping me with this avatar, both of you saved my sanity 
She's perfect
minor sun
thats cool
crisp tendon
well done !
steep solar
Now onto fixing hip trackers jitter 😂
solemn vault
so if I use miximo on a model it keeps the UV data right?
or will I have to re-wrap
figured I'd use auto rig and then make adjustments
because that's probably easier for getting it rigged correctly for VR chat...idk
solemn vault
k cool
thanks
trying to UV map this guy and get him rigged
obviously rigging needs adjusting :p
here's the map as well tried to organize it a bit so I could tell what was what
fading verge
Oh my christ
solemn vault
only done the torso but honestly probably the most complex tbh
solemn vault
@fading verge well most likely happened because his arms were close to the body
fading verge
but still
solemn vault
might try to move the poly's to T pose
fading verge
It's a very easy rig
solemn vault
yeah just wanted to use Miximo to see how it moves with bones to see if poly's and shit are fine
I'll probably end up rigging the lego myself lol
honestly was worried about the legs because they are lower poly because they're flat so I thought the geometry would bend in on itself but looking at miximo the legs turned out alright
weak nacelle
sorry for my noob question i am haveing how to add a costume animation as a emote or a button click
lethal lark
Hey guys, think this is a rig issue, when I import my model into Unity, it complains about not being able to find a bone for the left foot, but it assigns the right foot fine (it assigns the toe bone to the foot, is that correct or not?). I manually changed them so that the ankle bones were assigned to feet and the toes to toes, applied it and it stopped complaining. After doing the rest of the stuff and uploading, the feet don't move in-game with my full body tracking, legs are fine though. There's obviously some issue somewhere but not too sure, any idea?
The bone structure is leg > knee > ankle > toe
turbid spear
Does everything else work fine? Animations may not work properly if you are missing fingers on your hands for example.
Oh actually for fbt I don't know
lethal lark
Yeah everything else is ok, it's an MMD, using the knuckles and finger tracking is all good, the feet just don't move
muted epoch
can someone help me to make the bones of my dinosaurs avatars, because when i put in humanoid the dinosaur will stand but i want in the narual pose
zinc aurora
You would likely need a custom animation to make that work right because of how much it differs from a regular humanoid, no idea how that is done.
gentle totem
ok one problem I really need help with
how do I fix this
the ears have that little anchor point that keep fucking it up
sleek isle
Are they the same mesh
If yes
Move the root in pose mode and apply as rest pose then parent it to the head
weak oar
Different day so going to ask a different crowd: Regarding full-body-tracking - My avatar looks fine T-posed (and works fine normally) but when I complete calibration for full-body-tracking, the legs rotate inwards about 30'. Any ideas why?
sleek isle
the leg not strait enough from the front maybe
How can I change the order of the bone in the armature ?
weak oar
Change the parent in Blender
sleek isle
not working
placid rampart
Might anyone know how to fix this with my avatar's legs? https://i.gyazo.com/6112ab516afcb3ad40dfd9197fe82542.mp4
placid rampart
Can't quite get it perfect, but weight painting seems to have gotten it pretty close to fixed. Thanks.
manic marsh
Humanoid dinosaur, now that's something I wanna see
weak oar
@muted epoch That's going to be an awkward pose to hold in VR. Trying to appeal to the hardcore scalie community? lol
bronze fern
😆
weak oar
Or perhaps creeps
vagrant mist
does anyone know why my model is in a constant t-pose
weak oar
In game, or Unity?
zinc aurora
if ingame the rig or animation controller might not be set up correctly
dry salmon
question... if I were to rig up a Sonic-based character would the animation type be humanoid still?
Unity is still fairly new to me as I've never used it before in the past and just following tutorial videos... but wanted second opinions with my particular model
weak oar
Yes, if it's got arms, legs, head, etc then humanoid should be fine. Think "can a human basically assume this stance" when dealing with rigs.
dry salmon
I just hope I can adapt as my Sonic character has wings and the other parts that make it a Sonic character aka ears and all that ^^'
thanks anyway ^^
because there's no tutorial on how to rig a Sonic-based character in Unity (there was a tutorial on how to make a model of a Sonic-based character in Blender thankfully) Im going to have to rely on second opinions from my friend or from this Discord server
weak oar
You'd normally ensure you have a sane bone setup in Blender first, then export it to Unity where rigging should take 2 seconds as it'll auto-config everything.
dry salmon
ah I see
weak oar
If you've downloaded something from VRCM then chances are it's a mess as that site is a wild-west of garbage and stuff, lol.
dry salmon
only got up to knowing how to import the model in to Unity after my friend tutored me how to rig the armature and all that on Blender and a tutorial video showed me how to place the viewing point of the model
I've actually made my model from scratch on Blender :]
weak oar
Oh cool, well if the bones are all named right and connected properly, the rigging should do itself
dry salmon
I was watching a series of tutorial videos of someone making Sonic himself on Blender, I followed along but adapted to my own thing xD
I think it's all set, as my friend did do a Sonic-based character at one time
guess when I have the ability to apply my own custom avatar I'll give this character a test drive
neon lance
So I've set up visemes on an avatar, and they work, but on a regular interval a few of them will twitch suddenly. About every 2 seconds my mouth opens and eye blinks, and I can't figure out why.
Apparently the eye tracking is causing it
wary copper
Bit of a hunch, but i think just think that my dynamic bones might be broke.
ive convertd every single bone into a dynamic bone by setting the wrong root
So
Im considering this rigging since well it doesnt really fall into anything else.
Should i set the root from The bone i want to make dynamic To the parent
or the parent to the child.
lofty void
it really depends on how your bones are set up and the effect you want honestly
wary copper
i want the coat to just act like a coat and not a
frozen coat, originally they did act normal but since i like to make elaborate animations
and i had no mat slots i just optamised the entire model meaning i had to re rig and ive lost the dynamic bones.
The coat bones come out of the Chest bone.
and they have 3 parts, bit like fingers.
lofty void
idk how recommended it is to set chest as root and add arms/neck as exclusions, but you may wanna add another bone as a child to chest and parent the coat to that and use it as the root
wary copper
Thanks.
now i know what went horribly wrong.
lofty void
👍
wary copper
Managed to realise there is an even bloody easier method
just parent the dynamic bone to it self with no end length.
it simulates the entire string without making more componants. and it is less glitchy
fervent hornet
Since it's 2D you can always try unity cloth but that's it's own bag of worms
weak oar
Cloth limit is stupidly low btw, 225 tris I think? Anything above that and you're rated Very Poor.
iron chasm
I want to make an animation where I take my tail out of my back and hold it with my hand. Is there a tutorial for that anywhere? Is anyone able to help me with this?
weak oar
It's relatively simple in Unity, just time consuming. There are third party (paid) addons that can make the process easier/better, one of them is in a current Humble Bundle so may be worth looking in to that.
UMotion Pro may be good for making animations, but I'm not familiar enough to say. Plus this pack contains dynamic bones if you don't already have it - https://www.humblebundle.com/software/unity-2019-bundle
crisp tendon
Select the bones again and give them auto weight paint, see if there's a difference
prime hearth
How do you auto paint..? xD I did this manually
loud falcon
Does anyone know how to correctly attach lets say a ring around your arm, and actually make it follow my arm movement without magically floating in the air when i move my arms? I attached it to the given part of the body in the hierarchy.
weak oar
Either weight paint it to a bone and parent that bone to the arm, or weight paint the ring to the arm bone directly.
loud falcon
Ok, Ill try
prime hearth
It must just be a Blender 2.8 bug, because when I import into unity it works fine.
weak oar
Typically a bad idea though because it's poor performance wise
And will get you a bad rating quite quickly too
zinc aurora
i see
weak oar
It's how you can normally tell if someone's avatar is random crap downloaded off VRCM, it'll be rated Very Poor because it has a load of meshes a load of materials and not be optimised in any way.
zinc aurora
just saw that vid yesterday and had been doing it the blender way before, just looked like an easy way to add accessories
weak oar
It technically is an easy way, it's just also the worse way. So just something to keep in mind.
The only time I've ever done that is for my halloween avatar which is basically just aids incarnate anyway.
zinc aurora
ill take the vid away as to not propagate bad performance 😉
so on the topic, does that mean that all stuff that can appear via gestures, such as guns and swords have the same performance issues due to them being extra meshes and materials?
or can those be built into the model in blender?
weak oar
They can be built into the model in Blender, you can just hide the bone they're part of to turn them on/off. So they can still be atlassed etc too.
zinc aurora
alright, cool
so another question regarding rigging, you seem knowledgeable 😉
can one make bones affect each other beyond the parent affecting children?
weak oar
I believe that's what rigid bodies are for, but I have to admit I've never used them.
zinc aurora
could a bone be set to point straight up from the backbone but then have another bone attached to the hand and have those mechanically move
alright, ill have to take a look at it
not that i have a use case in mind like that but rather for making non humanoid legs
so the rig itself would be humanoid but the bones controlling the mesh would be sort of like a mechanical rig, like puppeteering costumes used in movie special effects
i saw someone asking about making a t-rex or velicoraptor in here earlier, if rigid bodies work like that this would sort of be possible but digitally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul26r2rbhE4
not that people would really care or be scared but the way the rig of that thing works is the interesting part
turbid spear
It’d be joints probably. They just come with rigid bodies
zinc aurora
Joints, how do you mean?
dry salmon
not sure if this is the right place but what do I have to do to knock this off?
it's on a humanoid character
zinc aurora
You need to adjust the bones somehow to make it go away but mostly that isnt really an issue, if the model looks alright ingame its fine to just ignore it
dry salmon
ok ^^
zinc aurora
(and i dont know which adjustments to make)
dry salmon
no clue either XD
dry salmon
thanks for letting me know, as long as I can get the basics done I think I should be good to go with experimenting poses
and my friend in DM is going to hopefully teach this character how to fly as she has wings
but for now I just want to test the basics of walking and making sure this character is moving fine ^^
zinc aurora
i think i saw something about the self chair sitting flying being taken out, dont know if it was in the patch going out right now tho
could just be planned
dry salmon
my friend has an avatar that can fly as it has simple wings
zinc aurora
alright, cool
dry salmon
and my character also has wings xD
but Im nervous as I dont think I've studied her wing movements... or bird wing movements
zinc aurora
well the wings dont really have anything to do with the flying, i think they are are purely cosmetic
and the actual flying is an exploit relating to how sitting ingame is handled, as ive understood it you make a seat that attached to the avatar itself and then sit on yourself, allowing you to move the seat and have your avatar follow it, even if it leaves the floor
caveat being that ive not really dug into it more than that overview
dry salmon
hmm.. I'll see what my friend says
zinc aurora
well the flying works, not matter how its handled
and there might be other ways of handling it but as far as i know there isnt any "air" resistance emulation that would allow for waving something through it and get purchase on it to actually fly in the real world way
dry salmon
because Im not sure if a chair is what I'd want to use for a character that practically has wings
zinc aurora
id doesnt have to be visible
dry salmon
so my friend said she doesnt use this chair tactic and she said she'll actually teach me how to animate her wings
zinc aurora
but thats the mechanic being used to do it as i understand it
alright cool
oh theres aparently another way as well that uses a box collider that spawns in under your feet, lifting the avatar
spice axle
So like, when setting dynamics, is there anything out there that can auto root? Example; A skirt with many bones, shift click them all and add dynamics, then ya gotta click and drag all of em. its annoying :<
zinc aurora
@spice axle the dynamic bone propagates outwards from the bone it is applied to, if the skirt bones are parented to a single "skirt root" you can set it to be dynamic and it will affect them all.
If the skirt bones currently are all parented to the hip itself you can extrude a new bone from the hip and re-parent all the skirt bones to this new one and set dynamic on it.
Setting dynamic on the hip itself makes the whole avatar "springy".
jovial smelt
zinc aurora
odd hip bone placement, im not exactly sure how to fix but ive read that making sure the fat end of the hip bone should be above the fat end of the thigh bones
but i will confess im not 100% as to that
jovial smelt
they are .-.
jovial smelt
do you mean like flip them?
zinc aurora
sorry, not super knowledgeable on this
jovial smelt
omg thank you your a saint
zinc aurora
im working on figuring out the same thing one of my avatars at the moment but ive ran into some other weirdness that im trying to deal with 😛
wary copper
me finding out about IKfollowers after making world particles.
turbid spear
IK follower script used to be super bad, not sure if they completely fixed it
muted epoch
@zinc aurora i ask this, because i want to make i dinosaurs avatars
zinc aurora
i just tried making a rig using the regular IK from within blender but i didnt get it to work, gonna try again with some changes
muted epoch
about dinosaur avatar or another type ? if you want i can disponibilize some models of dinosaurs, but not rigged for vrchat, have bones
zinc aurora
i was trying to rig up som robot legs but they are structurally similar to raptor legs, im trying to make them work by using blender IK, didnt work on the first try, seeing if it can do it another way
muted epoch
Ok
zinc aurora
This DOESNT work in vrchat but the mechanical rig is how it could be set up in unity.
The robotic feet follow the feet that will be actuated by the humanoid animations and the movement is propagated up the robotic legs using IK.
The mechanics are as follows:
The yellow bit (shin) IK follows the green backwards pointing bone and the movement propagates up through 3 steps, all the way to the top of the robot leg.
The backwards pointing bit Is green because it copies the location of the real foot with an offset.
The forwards point green bit is for the robotic foot, it copies the rotation of the real foot.
In vrchat the robotic legs do not move since it appears that IK set up in Blender is not run.
Anyone skilled in unity/the art of friggin' in the riggin' know if that can be set up so that it would work in vrchat?
Figuring this bit out would be a basis for making really non standard avatar that would still animate using the built in humanoid animations and it should even work with full body tracking
muted epoch
@zi but you just tried to see the robot raptor in the vrcmods? Like the body of the avatat is the human, however the legs is the dinosaur legs
zinc aurora
Yeah i have, it works but just barely and it doesnt look right when applied to my legs show above.
the difference being that the robot raptor has deforming legs
mine has rigid parts that should only move at the joints
without deformation
the robot raptor looks fine tho, that type of leg works if it can deform
tall willow
hewo I'm new to making avatars, i've added animated physics to the parts i wanted and it jiggle when i test it in unity but after i uploaded it to vrchat theres no physics anymore, theres dynamic bones on the model I have imported even though i never bought it, idk what to do there nowp^^
turbid spear
How many dynamic bones do you have?
If they’re past the limit of the ingame , they might not show
weak oar
If you have more than 32 affected bones, it's auto-disabled entirely in-game
fathom geode
so, i have a basic armature on some avatars, no cats fix. This happens (fullbody only):
only right leg
if i manipulate my hip tracker, the space between leg and hip starts to increase as if leg was not attached
weak oar
Seen that a bunch of times in here lately. Can you take a picture of the armature in Blender?
weak oar
Take the bottom point of the hip bone and raise it slightly so that the hip is smaller (and thus higher above the top of the legs as well)
weak oar
No, don't worry about there being a gap between the top of the legs and the hip bone
fathom geode
why does that even has to be done
weak oar
Just how IK works I guess, that and voodoo
You'll see normally the hip bone is tiny and there a decent gap between it and the top of the legs.
astral warren
Looking for advice on how to add eye tracking to eyes that aren't inside out - is there any way to fix an iris that clips into the whites of the eye, via shader? to just always draw the iris on top of the white
Would turning off ZWrite on the whites of the eyes work?
formal zealot
does antone here Rig in Maya for VrChat
i want to get siomeones oppinion on it before I learn how to do it as I use Maya already for Modeling
random dune
Anyone can help with a hip/knee issue? I followed the vrc guides, checked the pinned messages, even watched a 30min Tupper video on bone issues but I'm still getting it after all the attempts. Thanks in advance
crisp tendon
show a picture of your blender armature
civic shoal
random dune
@crisp tendon
random dune
I did those and still had the issue
crisp tendon
your leg looks very straight
random dune
That's from before I did it. I scrapped the save it since it didn't work
crisp tendon
clear bone roll in edit mode and apply rotation in object mode
weak oar
The bones were probably pointing down in Blender, so when it's t-posed them straight, they now point up
weak oar
No worries
random dune
Still isn't working. I'm sure it's something I'm doing wrong or missing, I'll get some personal help with it. Thanks anyway.
weak oar
@random dune Two things stand out. The left leg is vertical but the right leg is slanted. Second is that the hip bone needs to be higher, there needs to be a gap between the top of the legs and the hip bone.
random dune
Yeah, the two things at the end of that document. I did both of those and it's still wobbly.
raw jackal
Hi there, my avatar appears to have an odd lean to it and I can't for the life of me figure out why. Would any of you be willing to take a look at this and see what might be off? He looks fine for a brief moment, but then he takes a step to the right and readjusts himself into that position. He also seems to do it if you try viewing an animation in unity with "IK" enabled, so I believe it's related to IK somehow.
I would be more than happy to share the files with you if you think you could figure out what's wrong with it, since it's Halloween themed. Could make a good costume 🙂
merry estuary
It looks like bones below spine aren't symmetrical
merry estuary
I should rather say they are moved a bit to one side
You can see how foot bones are positioned, one is right on the line next to the main Z axis and other is further away from it
raw jackal
Would you be able to circle what you mean? I think I see it, but I just want to make sure.
merry estuary
Left foot about one unit away from blue line, right foot about 1.25 unit away
Spine and head is right on the line
also the bone chains for avatar outfit that are on the sides aren't symmetrical either
Maybe this assymetry causes avatar to lean to one side
raw jackal
Oooh, I see. I'll try moving that foot up, although it seems like such a small change I'm suspicious that it would fix it. x.x I wondered about the outfit bone chain, but I would be surprised if that caused a lean. I'll go ahead and fix both though, see if I can rule anything out. Thanks!!
raw jackal
Sadly he's still doing the thing where he keeps rebalancing/shifting his weight onto different knees when he stands 😦
merry estuary
@raw jackal Try applying all transforms/rotations/scale for armature and mesh ctrl+a
raw jackal
@merry estuary Sorry, I'm not sure I understand?
merry estuary
Left click your armature in object mode, press ctrl +a, select "location", press ctrl+a again, select "rotation and scale"
Hopefully that fixes it cos I have no other ideas and I am going to sleep
smoky dawn
anyone able to help me out with this issue
https://puu.sh/Epkgm.jpg getting this message on attempting to upload the avatar for full body with IK
when I upload it, spine or hips are essentially locked/don't move
as well as legs
Here's this for reference as well https://puu.sh/Epkjw.jpg
crisp tendon
you can ignore it
smoky dawn
Can't, as when I swap to the avatar, nothing works in full-body
from the waist down, that is
smoky dawn
yeah, as I said I understand this
but don't get what I'm supposed to do to fix it
I've already read through that and haven't found anything that helps so far.
crisp tendon
why is your hip bone in front of your leg bones ?
From the screenshots are the bottom you should see what needs to change
muted epoch
2 questions, anyone have a experience in making pony avatars ? Because i want to make a triceratops avatar with like the bones of the pony avatar, but more bigger, and anhone can help me in my project in making dinosaurs avatars ? My one problem its making the bones of the avatar because im novice in vrchat and i am a huge fan of dinosaurs, if the people how help me want to have a dinosaur avatar can have, because i dont have problem with the people have avatars like you
weak oar
Oh no Mixamo, what have you done....
raw jackal
Does anyone happen to have a pic showing "legs straight from the front, slightly bent from the sides" done correctly? I need a quick reference
I know there's pics in the discord somewhere but I can't remember what to search to find it
weak oar
I've never done that and all my avatars work fine. I'm not entirely sure it's true.
opal river
if I'm rigging my avatar, can I just use the rigify humanoid rig as is, or do I need to do something with it?
weak oar
I didn't even know that was a thing, could have saved time on using Mixamo!
opal river
well apparently the rigify rigs are "metarigs"
so I have no idea if you can just use the armatures as is
merry estuary
@opal river I tried using rigify rig but couldn't make it to work. It had some additional bones VRChat doesn't use which I autopaint weights to it then had to fix weights manually and in the end it somehow broke and didn't let me export it. It may be usable its just I used it when I wasn't exacly knowing what I was doing back then. In the end I just made my own rig from scratch and it turned out to work and took less time to make and then weight paint than adjust rigify rig
opal river
okay, couldn't you just have deleted the extra bones?
merry estuary
I suppose this should be the first step
Like I said I didn't even know how rig should look like when I tried it out
opal river
yea
merry estuary
It has 3 types of bones I think and you gonna have to get rid of 2 out of 3 of them I think
I still think it would be faster to make your own if its for VRChat. Rigify is more for animating
opal river
yeah, I guess
just looked at the basic humanoid rig
still has a lot of extra bones oyu don't need in vrchat
merry estuary
Oh, that may have been the cause why it didn't export for me
weak oar
Otherwise you end up with unweighted mesh and it'll just freeze in place
merry estuary
If you weight anything to that deleted bone then yeah obviously, but I think the rig itself since its generated using an algorythm it will break if you remove any of the bones
wind osprey
As someone who uses rigify quite a bit, I definitely would say it's more of a pain in the arse to try to make work with unity than its worth.
That said, this is how to make a rigify rig work with Unity.
https://docs.unity3d.com/560/Documentation/Manual/BlenderAndRigify.html
In terms of VRChat specifically, Rigify's face rig is amazing for visemes and is what I've used since forever.
merry estuary
Is it possible to pair mesh with rigify rig, paint just the face, make visemes, scrap the rig with visemes saved and use regular humanoid rig?
wind osprey
Yup. As long as none of the bone names of your regular rig match the rigify rig, you'll just have a load of extra vertex groups that don't do anything.
merry estuary
Thats cool, maybe I will use it myself for next avatar
static parcel
Is there a good source on how to restrict rotation in an avatar's bones?
I have to constrain the rotation of a character's arms so they can move but not twist. Character Joints has some limiter options but it looks a bit overkill.
Also it uses rigid bodies
bold locust
Does anyone know exactly how much the jaw bone moves on start when you have it assigned?
I had an idea for animating on collision using the jaw flap viseme, but I can't pin down the alignment.
Or, actually. Now that I think about it, is it actually moving the bone? Or is it just simulating it?
😩
Never mind, I know it actually moves the bone because I already tested it with geometry and the cube wiggles.
weak oar
Ok so I still have this issue that no-one's managed to sus yet. My avatar looks fine normally (during desktop use, VR use and T-posing) but after full-body calibration, the legs both rotate/twist about 45' inwards. Any ideas why?
bold locust
Do you have final IK?
@weak oar
Basically it's a problem with where VRC's IK thinks your legs should bend. I've had to fix a lot of XPS models that had that issue.
weak oar
Would there be any other obvious issues if that were the case? The legs bend correctly at the knee when I squat or raise my legs.
bold locust
I use Final IK's Full Body Biped IK script to see where it thinks my joints are supposed to bend.
Hold on. I can demonstrate on a recent model with that issue.
I exaggerated it a bit.
The direction those arrows are pointing is the direction the IK VRC uses will think your legs are meant to bend. It also, for some reason force rotates them.
You'll need to do the adjustments in the rig config. So I usually have a second inspector tab open while in Rig config and have the script on the one in the Rig config scene.
then remove the script before hitting apply.
It's always fixed that issue for me.
Easiest way to fix it WITHOUT the Final IK is just bend the knees in the right direction in the Rig config.
Until you think it looks like enough. It doesn't need to be drastic.
It's just hard to tell which way it's trying to bend sometimes without the script.
weak oar
Won't that cause the model to lean slightly forward or back though?
bold locust
Not when the IK kicks in.
Just don't make it drastic.
It either thinks your legs are too straight so it doesn't know where to bend or it thinks it's bending the wrong way.
weak oar
If the issue was this though, wouldn't it bend wrong? Or does the lack of constraints just allow it to bend however making it look like it's actually bending correctly?
bold locust
It bends correctly in full body.
In regular VR, the problem may be hard to tell if it's just slightly off.
I just know that this is how I fix it.
weak oar
hmm
bold locust
And it's pretty quick.
Just giving the legs a more noticeable bend in the rig config so the IK knows what to do.
weak oar
That'll affect how the model looks into the scene view won't it?
bold locust
The model in scene view shouldn't be affected by changes in the rig config.
It's like some metadata attached to your model after you do stuff in rig config.
weak oar
Oh? I thought it was. Ok
Never actually noticed because I always just reset it to T-pose
bold locust
Like "this is how this armature should work".
turbid spear
It does if you reset it to tpose in the scene view, but why would you
bold locust
Sometimes you can drag a new FBX in and it'll have the changes you made in rig config.
But I just leave the scene model as is.
From the new FBX.
D;
Kuroyu models are nice but they are broken legs.
granite dust
What's the bone roll on the avatar's legs anyway?
weak oar
I've done MMD stuff, I've done GMod stuff, I've done SFM stuff, I've done other more raw game rips. All fine. JUST this one has the issue. I wonder why.
Roll is 0 on all bones.
granite dust
You two are bad!
weak oar
... wat?
granite dust
Sending messages like that
weak oar
What just happened?