you can use pumkins tools to copy-paste dyn bones/unity colliders
#avatar-rigging
naive tree
drowsy wharf
yeah you have to revert to prefab or re-add it to the scene- And do that ⬆
scene components don't update with the model re-import unless you revert to prefab.
hidden dagger
@drowsy wharf , what should I revert to prefab? I was always a bit confused about exactly what that button means :( but I know it's an option for components. @naive tree , thanks, I'll look into that too :)
naive tree
just import as new
and use https://github.com/rurre/PumkinsAvatarTools , a note tho - this requires latest dynamic bone version or else you'll get a compiler error (can't enter playmode)
marsh portal
Looks fine to me ?
wooden copper
The red bones both select together, and the pink bone is vertical for no reason (?)
Idk where to put anything
Screw it, just... I need a pic of a standard spine/chest area, where there won't be differences in Unity or Blender
marsh portal
o h
wooden copper
yeah...
I've got 10 different temporary saves of me trying to do this, none of them actually doing what I want
marsh portal
Can you somehow show the armature like in blender ? pardon for my poor english
i mean in the List on the top right
wooden copper
Alright, I'll send what I've got in there
I didnt name anything sorry ;-;
...Should I just restart the skeleton from scratch?
boutta do that
Aight what bone do I start with, and what direction do I go in
I know I start in the torso but where
opal aurora
Hips, Spine, Chest, Neck and Head all point up
Arms point in the direction they're facing (yours are fine)
Legs and feet also point in the direction they're facing (yours are fine aswell)
@wooden copper
opal aurora
For proper full body tracking (not desktop or usual VR) people tend to flip the hip bone upside-down, but that's about it
You mean the shoulders?
opal aurora
They also face the same directions as their respective arms, but they can be angled differently to have a different arm position, so those are kinda trial and error
wooden copper
What part of the skeleton do the Legs get put on?
opal aurora
Also, once you're done setting up bones, select all of them in edit mode and press Alt+R, that will reset their rolls to 0, which is recommended
naive tree
legs are attached to hips
opal aurora
Armature Layout
|>Parent
|--Child
&
Parent
Child
=
|>Hips
| Spine
| |>Chest
| | Neck
| | |>Head
| | |-----RightEye
| | |-----LeftEye
| |
| |-----Right shoulder
| | Right arm
| | Right elbow
| | Right wrist
| |
| |-----Left shoulder
| Left arm
| Left elbow
| Left wrist
|
|-----Right leg
| Right knee
| Right ankle
| Right toe
|
|-----Left leg
Left knee
Left ankle
Left toe
Am I doing it right?
wooden copper
?
Please tell me Im doing this right
ok wtf
Now in Unity, everything's inverted
I dont even know how to access stuff like that in blender
ok I inverted the normals in blender, that seemed to work
My polygons got fucked and I dont even know what happened
I never messed with them at all
But, the skeleton is mapped properly, which is nice
It says I dont have a chest so it cant build, but the chest is an optional bone
And I do have a chest
opal aurora
The unity rig config menu states some bones are optional whilst they are infact not, all of the bones i listed before are necessary (except the eyes and toes)
wooden copper
I got everything mapped right, but idk what this means
Do I really need to map finger bones?
I turned off Upper Chest because that seemed to be problematic for this, and now it's telling me I'm missing spine hierarchy elements
So because of upper spine, I now have to add finger bones (?)
This makes no sense
opal aurora
upperchest isn't used in vrchat
For full IK you need atleast 1 bone for each of the mentioned fingers there
opal aurora
Can you screenshot your rig config?
wooden copper
opal aurora
The neck isn't mapped
wooden copper
Well there's no head bone to map to, do I just map it to the joint?
opal aurora
Your rig definitively have a neck bone from your screenshots
wooden copper
I know, but then I wouldn't have a head
opal aurora
That's because it's not mapped
Just rename all of your bones accordingly before importing your model
wooden copper
Boutta go do that brb
head's already named
Here, everything's named
The feet on the model turned around wtf
Also there still isn't a proper head bone
opal aurora
Set the rig type to generic, apply set it back to humanoid, apply
Check the config after that
wooden copper
I remapped everything, and hit Enforce T Pose. Turned everything around. But, I still don't have the head mapped.
opal aurora
Manually assign the head, also you likely setup the model backwards, if it's facing the other way
wooden copper
Manually assign it to what? There is no bone available to assign it to.
By the way, the "facing the other way" issue has been solved.
fervent hornet
Click the small circle to the right of the head spot in rig menu and type in head
fervent hornet
What's mapped in upperchest?
wooden copper
This one's mapped to upperchest.
fervent hornet
That should just be chest
Hips, spine, chest, upperchest empty
Everything you have is named correctly so you just need to manually fix it since unity is being a sperg about it
wooden copper
Build button is working, about to test
wooden copper
It's working, thanks guys :)
charred stump
Guys, is it the correct channel to ask about full body avatar preparation?
Looking for the OG guide that is screenshot here
crisp tendon
raven creek
Is there a specific rig structure needed to allow eye movement?
crisp tendon
Yep, there's a few youtube tutorials you can find about the setup
fading verge
@raven creek this is what you need for eye tracking to work: ```VRChat won’t enable eye tracking at all unless three requirements are met:
1- The bone hierarchy Hips->Spine->Chest->Neck->Head->{LeftEye,RightEye} must exist!
Exact names are required, there can be no in-between bones.
The bones don’t need any vertices skinned to them. They can be “empty”.
2- The blend shapes vrc.blink_left, vrc.blink_right, vrc.lowerlid_left, vrc.lowerlid_right must exist as the first four blend shapes. (index 0 through 3).
Exact order is required, names are actually unimportant though.
They can be the same as the basis shape. They can be “empty”, but blender won’t export empty blendshapes.
3- The skinned mesh must be named “Body”.```
that's for having vrchat pick up the rig structure for eye movement and blinking animations
drowsy wharf
@hidden dagger Since you were curious what it did, the revert button reverts it to the saved prefab. In the case of a model it will reset it to the default model as if you dropped a new version into the scene.
When you hit revert it will revert the whole prefab (in this case the entire model).
Any changes made since the prefab was made (or since the model was dragged in) will be undone.
That includes dynamic bones, moved positions (which is why it's suggested after you re-import).
If you have made any changes (like dynamic bones, cloth, whatever) then if you can use Pumkins Tools I'd recommend it. If you haven't made changes, just hit revert.
(bonus info: you can make a prefab by making something and then dragging it into your assets somewhere. Don't bother for the model unless you're giving it to someone else, but in that case a scene save is better in most cases anyway)
white valve
does anyone know any solutions for outputting translation for bone tracking as opposed to the "track to" constraint which only does rotation?
trail oracle
drowsy wharf
@trail oracle no one can help you if you don't describe your issue...
white valve
like if I had two bones in a perfect line with each other but one offset a ways away, and neither are the parent of the other (linked to parent bone), is there any way I can make one track the other bone while constrained to a plane?
white valve
i want to track the iris but in only the y-z plane with no rotation
i'm mostly going in blind, cause i don't really know that much about blender in the first place...
fervent hornet
Fixed joints and rigid bodies in unity is your best bet, any kind of contraint made in blender besides parent-child is lost in the fbx IIRC
dim monolith
Are avatar eye bones meant to point upwards? because my eye bones point out of the eyes (in the direction of the eyes)
fervent hornet
Pretty sure only the heads of the bones matter, most MMD have them pointing out, CATs points them upwards. Pointing outwards should still work
dim monolith
Heads of the bones?
crystal vector
@dim monolith Yes, the direction and size of the bones is completely irrelevant
dim monolith
I'd like to know why in vrchat the eyes go missing even though the eyes have been rigged (if the rig was wrong then the eyes wouldn't move)
I mean, the hierarchy and naming is correct, just the placement of the bones themselves is my problem
crystal vector
@dim monolith You can test in cats how the eyes will rotate in vrchat
That might be a shader issue
dim monolith
in unity there is no problem, but I'll look into cats
dim monolith
ok it works, don't know how but it just does which is what I'm happy with
crystal vector
👍
dim monolith
Can I ask why the eyes are cross-eyed?
After using this avatar a few times it commonly goes cross eyed
fervent hornet
That happens in mirrors, don't remember if it's local only though
dim monolith
hmm ok
mystic copper
anyone know how to fix the legs?
crisp tendon
You need to give the leg a slight angle
If they're completely straight they bend sideway
mystic copper
ok
white valve
@fervent hornet so should I rig up the model with bones first before bringing it over to unity? also, the fixed joints and rigid body work sounds similar to CAD constraints, would they be kinda the same?
fervent hornet
If youre talking about stuff like mates in solidworks then not entirely. You should have your eye bone rigged correct to the bone but then have it so the eye bone has no parent. You can then connect it to the other eye via the fixed joint
Scratch that it should still be a child of the head I think
white valve
ah ok yea i have it branched to the head bone
fervent hornet
Yeah the armature in blender should look the way it should and then you use rigid bodies so that the second eye copies the firsts rotations
white valve
but if i want it to track only translation wise, that could work as well right?
fervent hornet
That gets fishier in my experience but yeah feel free to mess around
white valve
ah aight, i wanted to experiment a bit on an unconventional eye rig so i'll keep reporting anything i manage to figure out a solution for
fervent hornet
Fixed joints are the type of thing where it will usually always work just takes a lot of effort and some questionably optimized results
white valve
aighty, looks like i have some cobbling to do lol
white valve
how do you align a bone's roll to the normal axes of an object? been having trouble working that out recently
drowsy wharf
@white valve generally speaking you want bone rolls to be 0...or if not 0, all exactly the same or you'll have weird rotation issues in Unity...it doesn't pay attention to it and expects a certain setup
if you select all bones you can ALT+R to reset bone rolls to 0
white valve
ah aight
warped socket
Currently trying to rig the irises of my character's eyes, but due to the eyes being an irregular shape I can't just put the bone in the middle of the eye and have it work. I've experimented with it and can only get one axis working at a time. Anyone know a solution?
opal aurora
@warped socket Best likely solution is just moving the iris' and not the entire eye in it of itself
warped socket
@opal aurora that's what I'm doing
opal aurora
Oh nvm, didn't read the question proper then
Well in that case there really isn't much to be done, you could likely have a shader that animated the eyes instead of moving ehm, but other than that i'm not all too certain of alternatives
steady patio
@warped socket by no means a rigging expert, but if i had to guess i would try putting the eye bones pretty far behind
far enough that when you go to rotate them, the "curve" traced in the air by the irises matches the curvature of the eyeballs
warped socket
I tried that whilst experimenting and it's how I managed to get it working on one axis at a time. If it works up and down it clips left and right, and vice versa
steady patio
mmf. can you get away with remodeling the eye shapes in a way that it works out? maybe messing around with the topology around the area that the irises are going to move around
you can prob get away with it if you're not planning on giving the eyes shadows
warped socket
I've gotten a little too far with the model for that now. At this point I'm thinking of maybe just not bothering with eye movement.
fading verge
I've got an issue with a full body avatar i'm working on that whenever you move the legs back they twist a lot, is this common?
Are your leg bones bent or straight?
Straight
they bend with no problems
@fading verge
maybe it has something to do with the bones position?
merry estuary
I suppose when Panda asked you about whether leg bones are straight he meant are proximal and distal bones at an angle of 180 degrees (perfectly straight - incorrect, they need to be bend in order for Unity to know which way they will bend when moving) or less. Your bones are placed incorrectly, the bones that are now in your avatar feet need to be where tibia is, otherwise Unity will assume second leg bone is in feet.
fading verge
Oh no no, first bone leg are the 2 next to the hips @merry estuary
merry estuary
Aren't they hip bones?
sharp pewter
upper legs are right lower are not
fading verge
i'll do a small edit to the picture hold on
sharp pewter
shift right click red first then a blue on same leg
space bar
search snap to active
and apply that
make sure its bent after its snapped to a little bit
upper leg does not need this bend
fading verge
merry estuary
merry estuary
I think you should try making something like this
sharp pewter
that has fbt fix done tho you dont need the larger upper leg bones anymore
merry estuary
Worked for me although had to get rid of toes in Unity as my avatar was standing on its toes whenever I looked down
fading verge
So i just copy the picture?
fading verge
Does this work?
sharp pewter
ya
sharp pewter
just make sure bone rolls are 0
white valve
why is it important to zero all bone rolls? is it supposed to be the default orientation?
sharp pewter
how it looks in blender is the mesh with no pull on it from the bones
not the same in game that takes the rotations and pulls the mesh with it
so some real funky thinks can happen
tho im no expert
bold nacelle
is anybody know what is the issue on this problem?
fading verge
@bold nacelle bones ahvent been defined properly for the humanoid animation time. Just above the error message is a "configure..." button. in that menu you'll find some bone slots are actually empty. Be sure to check the NON-optional bone slots and ensure that they are all fitted in with the appropriate bones.
bold nacelle
@fading verge Thanks. but actually i know that issue and what i exactly wanted to ask you is another problem. Can i send you message in personally?
fading verge
Sure
ionic bramble
Anybody know why this is tipytoeing?
oh never mind fixed
oh wait no i havent still busted
sterile pond
is this ok?
i dont know how i got here but
having no chest or upper chest
i get this error as is https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/361742235525709825/610827668509818889/unknown.png
i cant upload the model until i get a few hours of time under my new account
but, should this work?
especially given that i plan to apply manual animations
tall goblet
getting somewhere i think?
lilac moss
@sterile pond needs a spine bone, even if its lenth is 0
drowsy wharf
@sterile pond you shouldn't have an upper chest, but you do need a spine/chest, lick bucket said even if the spine bone is basically non existant, it still needs to be there for the humanoid rig.
And you may be setting overrides, but you need the humanoid rig for it to work still.
You also NEED to have an animator on the top level of the model (the part above the mesh/armature where your avatar descriptor should be)
crisp tendon
A world of googleable questions is open to you
If you have issues with a specific steps, feel free to ask here
tall goblet
Problem with Google is that it finds everybody's answer, viable or not
bronze fern
The correct answers rise to the top, and cross referencing is a good idea
tall goblet
If pewdiepie played vr chat even once, the entire search would go to shit with his legion of morons
Google goes by trending results by the day
sterile pond
how do i set the spine bone as a spine bone?
tall goblet
But yeah cross refereces
tall goblet
Give it an extra spine bone and level out the shoulders to match it
sterile pond
an extra bone there? and that should fix the error?
so that its recognized as humanoid
tall goblet
Can help it recognize the shape yes
In blender, take the current spine and split the bone
sterile pond
ok, one other thing, this morning when i started up unity i had to reimport the vrchat sdk
is that normal?
i had to delete the old avatar definition and replace with a fresh one
tall goblet
Can't say, haven't experienced it myself, but also haven't uploaded anything for about 6 months
tall goblet
Did you save regularly?
sterile pond
yes
i also saved before losing
closing
but importing the sdk was the first action i did
all the files and folders were still in the assets, its just that the sdk scrips links were all broken and reffered to nothing
drowsy wharf
@sterile pond You shouldn't have needed to replace it, no.
If you do reimport it or update it, make sure you delete the VRCSDK from the files before you do, or you can run into other issues
sterile pond
delete how? from assets?
anyway
you said a bone of zero length wouldnt be an issue?
also, this bone has plenty length
drowsy wharf
ignore that error, not an issue
drowsy wharf
https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/updating-the-sdk Read the "Simple Update" section for deleting and reinstalling the SDK properly
sterile pond
wooo
avatar works
now i just have to play vr chat on my new account long enough to be allowed to export this model
am i meant to use the latest sdk? or a specific version for my specific unity
drowsy wharf
latest SDK, and a SPECIFIC Unity version or it will not work
version info and links here: https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/setting-up-the-sdk
sterile pond
guess il udpate it
drowsy wharf
just follow that simple update guide when you update the SDK
sterile pond
ok
ill try it then close unity and reopen the project and see if it screws up again after i update
btw, how long do i have to play on vr chat before im allowed to upload?
drowsy wharf
update with unity closed, not open.
The upload allow is not based on time.
Make sure you're using a VRChat account and not a steam or oculus account (you can link either those to the VRC account)
Idling will not help.
Once you reach "new user" you should be able to upload, you'll get a message in game and via email saying you can.
tall goblet
is there a simple way to keep the avatars wire overlay in edit mode when the bones are selected?
weak wigeon
Place the model in wireframe mode and and do your bone work. @tall goblet
tall goblet
Thanks, it's a bit of a challenge due to everything being wire instead of x-ray but it helps a little.
Probably comes with practice
tall goblet
actually it was more hell than good
the bones themselves being wireframe makes it completely useless
lament spade
Im trying to rig my model but suddenly rotating the bones doesnt seem to manipulate the mesh anymore
Anyone know whaddup?
Moving the bones does seem to work
tall goblet
sorta accidentally found that bones can snap to vertices
thank a myrical to fix the issue i've been struggling for 12 hours now
sharp pewter
Bones will only move mesh they are linked to via vertex groups with same name and you have to be in pose mode
tall goblet
oh i was trying to position them to a point where they resemble something remotely human 😂
lament spade
I found the issue...
tall goblet
does anybody know if it's possible to set multiple parents to a single bone?
lilac moss
@tall goblet impossible. you might be looking for constraints though, i've seen 2-handed weapons done in such a way
tall goblet
i'm looking to add multiple neck joints
lilac moss
not sure what you mean but there is probably a solution
drowsy wharf
@tall goblet A bone can only have one parent, but a bone can have many children.
What exactly are you trying to do that you need multiple parents, and what do you mean multiple neck joints?
tall goblet
drowsy wharf
@tall goblet That's a hell of a mess, why would you need anything like this...?
The only use I could thing of is if you had pistons or something similar that linked the neck to something...though that really looks like you're trying to link the neck to the shoulders/arms (which shouldn't be the case anyway...)
I can't see the mesh very well, but it doesn't look like it would need this setup at all...
Your body armature also looks like it starts at the head instead of the hip
the left side of that image also looks like it has some duplicate bones coming back from the arm toward the center for some reason
tall goblet
yeah just me fiddeling around trying to make it work. but yes i see your point and have reverted to stick figure bones
drowsy wharf
You can use a fixed joint for something like two pistons connected to an arm. You just make an end-bone for the piston and joint that to the upper arm (for the piston-arm example)
But you'd still use a standard bone setup and have those pistons just joint to it.
In any case where you'd have multi-parent bones, you use constraints to do so and "fake" the dual joint
tall goblet
I mistakenly thought that the more details to the bone structure the better it could mimic real bones
drowsy wharf
Technically true, but only if you have control over the movement system (and also use constraints). And IK traces back along the bone chain to move it properly, so you wouldn't use IK, but pre-made animations for it.
IK works pretty well, but normally it also needs other follower bones for elbow joints if they aren't also tracked movements.
Have to remember that you're working with a lot of limitations since you don't have control over the coding etc.
tall goblet
I'm going to be using motion controls rather than animations for the most part. other than some mild effects that aren't attached to the body
Is it best to bury the bones into the mesh, or is having them on the mesh surface perfectly fine?
drowsy wharf
@tall goblet bones rotate around the head of the bone (big side) so that should be centered (usually, there are exceptions, like the elbow is technically better on the outer edge depending on setup)
Think of actual bones, everything is anchored to them and so they should be in similar locations to real ones (again...exceptions apply like the neck/head should be centered, not at the back in most cases)
drowsy wharf
That's....not how toes work...
you haven't seen the "connected" check box for bones yet have you, unchecked it lets you offset bones
@tall goblet ⬆
proximal thumb bone should be a short distance out from the wrist at the least, on that model probably half the current bone length
Your finger bones don't need a bone in the hand leading up to them either.
You only need a single toe bone if you want toes (unless you're planning animations for them or something...but you have a sock-like foot so no need for any but a single toe if you want it)
lethal lark
I would suggest importing a random model with bones already and looking at where the bones are, the shapes, sizes etc. because yours is a little off atm
drowsy wharf
You also have a hip to upper leg bone you don't need, the upper leg can just not be a "connected" bone and work fine
Yes....what zak said is a great idea, it'll give you a good look at a common bone setup.
I think you can grab the tutorial avatar from the VRCSDK even for a basic one
lethal lark
yeah 😄
tall goblet
Progress so far
Note: The bones in the tail, Hands, Arms & Shoulders are on the surface of the mesh only for the time being
the bones in the Hair are also on the surface, but i'm not sure if the belong on the surface of the mesh, If there are too many to begin with or if anything else needs to be different in that area.
The bones in the feet are intentionally fleshed out as i want to keep as much possibility for animation as possible (future Ideas)
the bones in the pelvis area are intentionally connected, however if absolutely necessary to remove then i can understand that, however if not i would like to keep them in place for more future builds
opal aurora
Some intricate animations could possibly be done with such a rig, but if for vrchat use, it's a tad excessive (hair bones more specifically), generally rigs have the bones going through the center of the mesh or a "pivot" location for the mesh to properly deform, in this instance some of these would likely deform properly, but others likely not so much, this is of course a W.I.P. so i assume this is to get a general idea of how the bones should be shaped.
This is my general opinion on the matter
Other than that, it's looking pretty good
tall goblet
so the hair is excessive?
sharp viper
excessive bones actually cause a performance hit @tall goblet , more than people realize, so try to use as few as possible
and yah, major bigtime
opal aurora
In a nutshell, each hair chain there would pull at the outside rim of where it's placed
sharp viper
you would only need 2
tall goblet
it's parted in 3 ways, so just split it to 3?
sharp viper
Two bones might actually be enough for the whole ponytail
think about how dynamicbone works if you plan on using it
essentially you just want to simulate the physical properties of hair and gravity
tall goblet
oh so dynamic bones follow physics more?
sharp viper
so due to the shape of the hair, you probably want the top half before the hair falls to simply be painted to head at 100% and then the rest to be a single bone
they would move together
dynamic bone is EXACTLY to simulate physics
opal aurora
Dynamic bones are pivot based, they move based on the root bone's location
opal aurora
The more bones, the more detailed it may look, yet the more performance hit it may produce
sharp viper
due to the way dynamicbone is, sometimes a single bone is actually better
opal aurora
Dynamic bones can only function with 2 bones at a bare minimum, end length bones are also accounted as a bone
tall goblet
ok, i'll reduce the amount of bone rows to see how that looks
sharp viper
dynamicbone works best when you think about each bone as a dolljoint
tall goblet
oh, do i need to have a skirt lining at the top or is it not neccicary?
sharp viper
imagine your mesh is made of silicone and there's dolljoints inside the silicone, that's the bones. Dynamicbone will allow you to set how "loose" the dolljoint is and how affected by air pressure and gravity it is, as well as how dense or "slimy" or "springy" the silicone is
that's the best analogy I can think of
opal aurora
Generally speaking you only need a chain for an entire mesh section, it doesn't need to be above or bellow the mesh in layers, but instead directly inside what it's supposed to affect
sharp viper
for game assets like this, use as few as possible to get the effect you want. You don't even need one if you plan on not using dynamicbone, just pant all the hair to be 100% head
tall goblet
right, thats what i though
sharp viper
single bone
opal aurora
Think of it like literal bones, or even an umbrella frame, it's just there to keep it together
tall goblet
can one of you maybe sit in on a screenshare for a moment, because this is a little bit vague
sharp viper
I wish I could, I'm at the office at the moment
opal aurora
I think the best appearance-wise layout for your ponytail to not feel stiff, would be 3 bones total, 1 being at the base and being the pivot, the other on the larger rim going outwards, and then a last one at the curve
tall goblet
o.0 so i'm more confused the more I try an imagine what you mean
opal aurora
Lemme see if can do an example real quick...
tall goblet
maybe just say what you mean instead of analogies
opal aurora
Whoops, didn't copy the whole thing
I did just make it by looking at it, so it's a bit off, but basically the base bone should be on the base of the hair itself
opal aurora
Do you see those 3 bones i made there?
tall goblet
yes i do
sharp viper
I think what exsgt is getting at is those three bones replace every bone in the hair
tall goblet
okay so why are you showing me these?
opal aurora
Positioning the bones inside of the hair instead of on the edges, simply using a single chain instead of multiple out-side facing chains
That's all i've been stating up to this point
tall goblet
you're telling me to use less bones, i get that.
but thats all i get
the rigging is on the edges because i'm still in the middle of finding out what needs changing before i sink them
opal aurora
I'm just telling you the optimal way to position the bones with minimal visual quality loss and minimal performance impact
Which would be 3 bones, 1 placed at the base of the head for the hair start, the other at the larger puffy side of the hair for added movement, and the last one facing the tail end for proper sway
tall goblet
alright, so none of that was to do with dynamic bones correct?
opal aurora
It does, otherwise i'd tell you to just use 1 bone or none at all
tall goblet
o.0 ok well thats what i was hoping you'd explain.
i'm sorry just really confused, nothings being specified about that
or is it? i'm not following it if it has
solid relic
Exactly what are you trying to do, and what do you have right now
opal aurora
The bone at the base gives the hair its pivot point for dynamic bones, the second bone is larger and sways more due to the puffy side of the hair, the last bone points to the tail end, which would move accordingly to the second hair bone, but would move a bit less
tall goblet
i'm trying to understand what he's telling me for now ^^;
so use 1 bone and make the rest dynamic?
opal aurora
The base bone is also dynamic, it's just used as the "root", essentially the pivot, like a pendulum in a way or another
tall goblet
i understand that you know what's going on, but your explanation doesn't translate to me, who is making their first rig
@solid relic maybe you can make better sense of this?
solid relic
Way too many bones in the hair
You want about 3-4 altogether
That's what he's telling you
solid relic
Dynamic bone is a script that will make the hair move in game
Not something you do in blender
solid relic
Yep
tall goblet
thank you. made a painful explanation actually make sense in moments
solid relic
Re-read what he said, as he did give you good advice
You just didn't have the context yet
tall goblet
he gave me good advice but what he was saying was actually against what i intended
that whole time i was asking him to explain what he was on about with dynamic bones, everything else was the same cycle of things
solid relic
I hope it makes sense now
tall goblet
yeah, honestly it was going in circles.
just tidying up for another screenshot i need a quick answer for
sharp viper
the point we're trying to make is that the bones you have now, if you're not intending on using dynamicbone later on, (and also if you are) will cause your model to be rated very poor and be blocked by default
even if everything else is perfect
if you use automatic weights and later merge those bones into a few big ones, though, that's fine too
you should have less than 65 bones if you can
If you're not intending on putting physics on the hair, the hair can just be 100% weight painted to head as a mesh group, now that you're on that step.
solid relic
Is this intended to be on quest? Sorry didn't follow from the beginning
sharp viper
Even if it's not for quest, that's way too many
tall goblet
It's intended for multiple use, not limited to VR chat
sharp viper
true for vrchat's profile system, but in reality the performance is hurt significantly by that. Ahh, that's awesome irissis: I recommend saving two branches then once you've done the work on the "full res" one
you can merge all the hairbones for the "final vrchat bones" and keep your fully articulated other model
solid relic
3-4 bones for the hair is perfectly fine
sharp viper
I didn't know that, good to know
tall goblet
sorry, i actually wasn't aware of such limits since i've had much higher counts before without issues, going back around a year though
sharp viper
@tall goblet actually makes a really good point here, for something like MMD or IK in blender animation, more bones for that purpose of animation and physics simulation it's very valid
tall goblet
sharp viper
if your skirt is super low poly, though, cloth simulation in unity doesn't even need ANY skirt bones, interestingly enough
tall goblet
ok so this is the dress rigging, just wondering if the ring that supports it is needed
sharp viper
the circular rig, no
tall goblet
want to make it so that i can (hopefully) avoid clipping knees and such
sharp viper
you could use a single disconnected bone for the waistband, or just make all the descending bones a child of Root/Hips
sharp viper
that's what I reccomend
make a parent bone called "skirtRoot" or something, and make it a child of hips, with all the bones connected to that children
makes it very easy to animate
tall goblet
I do have 2 pelvic bones in place, maybe make use of that?
sharp viper
you ideally want one that's centrally located because everything pivots around that
as for your weight painting, you can do a little partial mixed painting to the top legbones
on the front of the skirt, so that way, the skirt moves with the legs without needing physics
also, once you're happy with the rig, there's an automated step for weight painting
then you just refine it
tall goblet
alright i'll get a screen involving those pelvic bones, upper leg and spine
sharp viper
you could even just make a bone off spine, and make all the skirt bones children of that
just so that it's easy to navigate later
tall goblet
maybe if i made a part of the spine a parent to the skirt tops?
this one for example
what do you think
(dw i'll merge some of the extra spine bones for the VRC version)
sharp viper
that would work just fine
so when you're ready, if you select the whole armature in object mode, then shift+select the body mesh, you can do a ctrl+j and choose "with automatic weights"
this will set up the weight painting on your model with the mesh groups and entire mesh volumes you've already made
tall goblet
would i need to add bones for this bracelet as well?
sharp viper
only if you want them to move, otherwise just make them 100% weight to your armbone
tall goblet
i do want some jiggle to them yes
sharp viper
sometimes having a bone or vertex group for something like that is nice because you can create shapekeys by scaling a bone but it's not necessary. If you do want jiggle, 2 bones might be enough, but just think about how you want them to connect. Each head and tail provides a pivot, so like, even 3 might be identical to how a pearl bracelet might act
tall goblet
hm. well i do wanna have them be independent in a full version, but i can minimize for vrc
sharp viper
now you've got it!
tall goblet
alright, i'll bury these exposed bones now that i'm certain they will do the job
tall goblet
is there a specific way that eye tracking should be done for VRC? I've found a few methods and tutorials and i just wanna know if any will do or if they need to be something particular
crystal vector
@tall goblet They need to be very particular
VRChat won’t enable eye tracking at all unless three requirements are met:
1- The bone hierarchy Hips->Spine->Chest->Neck->Head->{LeftEye,RightEye} must exist! Those bones are also the ones you use in the mapping.
Exact names are required, there can be no in-between bones.
The bones don’t need any vertices skinned to them. They can be “empty”.
The Head bone and both Eye bones have to point straight up.
2- The blend shapes vrc.blink_left, vrc.blink_right, vrc.lowerlid_left, vrc.lowerlid_right must exist as the first four blend shapes in Unity. (index 0 through 3).
Exact order is required, names are actually unimportant though.
They can be the same as the basis shape. They can be “empty”, but blender won’t export empty blendshapes (but with CATS it now does).
3- The mesh containing the blinking blend shapes must be named “Body” and the armature must be named "Armature"
fading verge
i dont get this
i did vertex grouping
removed doubles
and kneesocks still give this issue
what fucking gives
it really thinks its doubles or bad vertex grouping
merry estuary
Can you try clicking on some verticies around the area and see whether they don't have any addional weights added to bones you don't want?
merry estuary
I am guessing mmd_ are just groups made to select things easier and everything in parented to Right leg?
fading verge
no the mmd edge scale and vertex order are full mesh selections
and they have to be that
merry estuary
It looks like legs bend above the joints, pretty strange
naive tree
your mesh is painted to something extra
fading verge
@merry estuary thats the thigh part
the second calf part is what bends
thigh part is full leg
and should be
but theyre both broken because of kneesocks
merry estuary
Vertex Weights will only show weights of a single vert that is currently active. It is possible the active one is somewhere on the edge of that problematic group. Try choosing one that is somewhere in the middle and see whether it doesn't have weights for different bone. You can also remove those groups that aren't related to bone weights
naive tree
I mean it's just easier being in weightpaint mode and going through bones ..
merry estuary
This is what I meant, it appears like leg doesn't bend where the bone joint is but maybe it is jsut perspective
No wait, the knee isn't bent, the leg is rotated in the hip so nevermind
It still looks like it has some extra weights assigned to it
coarse bane
how do you reedem jamekiis youtooz
bronze fern
We arent Youtooz tech support
Contact support or read the page you bought from, it will most likely be there in plain text
tall goblet
Has anybody got a working neko or fox girl modal i can reference rigging from? having trouble wrapping my head around the instruction i've gotten and having something i can see and attempt to re-create would help me out a ton
drowsy wharf
@tall goblet depends on what exactly you need, the only differences to the fox girl, etc is that they have tails/ears (which would have a root bone parented to the hip/head
Otherwise it's the same as any humanoid
9 tailed fox girl armature for reference
tall goblet
@drowsy wharf i need a reference i can download and compare everything to, names and perenting and all that
I keep on finding images or videos that i just can't use as a hands on learner
drowsy wharf
you can import the tutorial avatar from the VRCSDK to get a hands on humanoid rig.
Naming is generally not important except for auto-assignment
You can always check places like deviant art for a hands on model too
tall goblet
actually i did and it was useless to me
"I keep on finding images or videos that i just can't use"
queen mural
like what are you trying to achieve? and why can't this suffice for what you're doing?
it shows you the parents and childrens and what bones you need along with the correct names for it to function correctly
tall goblet
ok, i don't see any of what i'm doing in this example
i'm looking at a cactus and some barely recognisable crayon markings
queen mural
bones should be positioned at which it should rotate aka joints
perhaps you should enlarge the image and read it?
tall goblet
look, this is what i'm dealing with.
and that image could be enlarged to a skyscraper and still be incomprehensible to me
queen mural
might be missing a spine bone but i can't really tell you for sure considering i cannot see bones within bones or smaller than a pixel
regardless have you tried overlaying it on top of the geometry for comparison?
queen mural
the mesh the character the triangles
tall goblet
oh yes, i made the armature using snap mode on the mesh at first until i was satisfied then put it under the faces of it
queen mural
have you enabled Xray and set the draw type to Wire mode for the armature?
tall goblet
queen mural
yeah
make sure you have the legs/thighs parented to the hips and make sure you have a spine and a chest
there's a text layout of the hierarchy and names somewhere within this discord but i can't find it atm
anyways the additional bones for the hair and skirt can be pretty much ignored unless you wanna create a dynamic bone root bone for physics
you're probably missing a spine and a neck bone though
in which case you're gonna have to add bones for them and weight paint if you want it to animate properly
static parcel
https://i.imgur.com/JfMwtZo.png Has anybody had this trouble with finger bones? Both are 'open' but one seems to have an axis inverted, causing the fingers to move in. I think it's on the Unity side of things.
open venture
Hey guys, my avatar has right shoulder bone but it doesnt have a left shoulder bone. i made a left shoulder bone but i dont know how to infuse it with the mesh. can anyone help me?
static parcel
nvm on mine. It seems unity thought the right hand's bones pointed the other way because I didn't add the other joints of the finger.
sleek isle
Did you make the bone in the same armature? If yes you can simply create a vertex group with the same name of that bone and start weightpaint
@open venture
open venture
yeah it is in the same armature however i have 0 experience with bones so im not sure how to do what you just typed
thanks for the help!
sleek isle
@static parcel go on blender and enable mirror for the rig and move all the bone of the good hand a little so it will be copy on the other side
static parcel
I tried that and got the same result. Turns out it wasn't the bone orientation but Unity trying to guess where they go
The bones on the left hand were backwards
hushed quiver
U still need any help @tall goblet
fading verge
Hey, i’ve been having a problem where all my avatars, custom or from worlds, have their arms bent forward when my hands are at my side. Idk how to fix it
whole pecan
привет
tall goblet
@hushed quiver I'm up to the weight painting now.
Should be set for a while unless a specific area gives me trouble
Fingers are a bit tricky though
hushed quiver
Ah yeah
edgy ginkgo
Is there anyway to rig this: http://puu.sh/E6VWu/00b5d3b907.png for full body tracking?
lusty depot
Any tips on exporting from blender to unity? If I try to change the model, it messes everything up and sometimes the body is invisible 
crisp tendon
What are your export settings?
lusty depot
bronze fern
just delete the old one and import new
gray steppe
I need some help with CATS, if anyone can help plz dm me
edgy ginkgo
So any ideas?
bronze fern
It is possible to rig it yes
rough cipher
My avatar doesnt have any hip bone, therefore not full body compatible, how do I make it?
kind obsidian
Um.. If I want to attach equips to hands, it should be just to add a bone to the hand palm/hand root bone, right?
Also, for some reason, doing that has VRChat scaling the hands/equip bone by a bit for no reason.
drowsy wharf
@kind obsidian depends on if you're adding the items in unity or in blender.
If adding objects in blender that need a bone (or more), yes it would need to be a child of the hand.
If it doesn't need a bone, you can just weight it to the hand.
If adding in Unity you can just add the object as a child of a hand.
Assuming nothing is adjusting the bone's scale, it shouldn't change size in VRC
kind obsidian
@drowsy wharf That's what I thought.. Hm..
drowsy wharf
Unless an animation scales the bones, nothing should adjust them just because you added a bone/mesh to it.
Just make sure if you make changes in blender that you set your rig to generic, apply, then back to humanoid and apply.
You may also need to redo the avatar if the changes are significant and the above doesn't fix it.
opaque ruin
Okay, so continued from what I said in #avatars-2-general I now need help with rigging Arsene-
unity doesn't consider the avatar humanoid- and im missing a piece- from what the error says
as im looking in blender- uhh
there's like- nothing connecting them
round urchin
the arsene rig is going with problems?
opaque ruin
yes 😦
round urchin
oof
opaque ruin
i think i found the problem- they werent connected to the right parents
im gonna take a break and eat something
question- after i move the bones around and connect them to new parents- would i have to re-export the file from blender to unity?
manic marsh
yep
opaque ruin
sigh- nothing's working
round urchin
metallica
opaque ruin
imfucking crying dude
round urchin
why?
opaque ruin
cause this is so frustrating man- im so out of my league
round urchin
oooof
drowsy wharf
@opaque ruin open unity and look at the rig, hit configure and make certain the correct bones are assigned for hip/legs/etc
everything except toes and eye bones are required, upper chest must be blank
opaque ruin
i got help,, thank you,,
whole urchin
Anyone able to explain why the top two larger hair bones aren't being seen in unity?
I'm trying to put dynamic bones on them ( I've manually weighted them), but when I set the bones as the root in the component it doesn't seem to do anything
fading verge
Dynamic bones generally needs a root and children to move.
Move your db component up one level and ignore the bones you don't want moving or add an end length offset to simulate a child
languid panther
Anyone able to show me how to neck fix in blender 2.8?
warm lintel
i got a questin
question*
big brain
well i gotta add a spine to my avatar
and idk how to get his weight goin
like the bone dont show up on the menu
help would be spicy
crisp tendon
in blender ?
warm lintel
yeis
sorry for a delayed reply
it s h o u l d be rather simple
i just got scizor
@crisp tendon
fading verge
okay so I have a question about changing the prone thing to a sitting animation if anybody knows 👀 I can't figure it out for the life of me
warm lintel
b r u h
i said sleep with aload of e
fine then
as i S A I D stupido bot
i will sleep
just @ me if you have a responce
night
sleek isle
@warm lintel in unity. Drag the spine bone in the spine box in the humanoid tab
The bone need to exist and be parent correctly. It dont need to be weightpaint to something. But unity wont assign it automatic. So you have to assigh them yourself
drowsy wharf
@fading verge make sitting animation, apply as PRONEIDLE in override, ???, profit
fading verge
oh okay, thank you c: is there anywhere I could find a sitting animation?
drowsy wharf
can't help you there, I make stuff if I want it
fading verge
nice ❤ tysm
drowsy wharf
I think I'd heard mixamo has some? could be getting wrong name though
warm lintel
ah
carmine breach
Hey folks, recently acquired some valve index controllers, want to be able to fix my finger tracking for my personal model. Anyone got any guides on this or documentation?
broken gale
In the latest blender, where do you enable it to weight paint front and back of the mesh?
lofty crest
in new blender, is there a way to mirror armature changes? i'm trying to rotate and move some bones on the right hand and i'd like those changes mirrored onto the left hand
nevermind I guess the bone names were the only reason they weren't being mirrored with the X-Axis Mirror box checked
fading verge
So does the actual weight value even matter?
Because when I move the bone, all these move the same amount
steady patio
in what context? weighting your mesh is the only way that it will ever move so in that respec tof course it does
ohh. in that context there's one bone.
so if you weight them different values, they'll all move at the same rate since they are not weighted to any other bone
in contrast, you could place another bone at the bottom and give it a consistent amount of weight (say 0.50) to all of those blocks and just tell that bone to never move
that should give you the result that you want, no promises though
what you're trying to accomplish may be done better differently
fading verge
Now it makes sense as to why they moved the same rate.
Needed some redundant weighting.
drowsy wharf
If you only have a single bone, there's nothing for it to compare against, you rotate the bone, and it rotates everything.
(also if you only have a single bone and no other basis for things to be compared to, it may as well be an obj file instead of fbx)
hushed quiver
@broken gale did u get it figured out for how to weight paint with the xray on? If not its at the bottom right corner of ur 3d view window, to the left of the shading options
raw jackal
Hi there, does anyone know of a fix for this issue? Adding FBT through cats has made the legs oddly long and put the tail upside down and in front of the body.
(it looks fine in unity)
hushed quiver
@raw jackal u gotta reset the rig to generic then back to humanoid anytime u mess with the bones
raw jackal
thanks!!
mint idol
What even... finally got everything working.. now my view position in-game is off like.. 1ft to the left.. but the viewpoint ball is set right..
Please @ me with help..
crisp tendon
Your avatar isn't at 0,0,0 then
crisp tendon
the body or the main model ?
mint idol
... I'm sorry, I don't understand that?
The models xyz in unity is 0,0,0
crisp tendon
You have the model, at the top of the hierarchy, and the body mesh
make sure they're both at the same location
fading verge
Hey Ruuubick, when is the vrc team gonna conduct world domination?
lusty depot
The heck is this
This says exactly nothing lmao
Fixed, but now im getting spine has bone lenght of zero which is false
wat
hushed quiver
U can ignore the bone length of zero if ur model has the full body fix
lusty depot
Ah right
small solstice
not sure what im doin wrong but in unity editor the skeleton seems like it works fine but when it gets uploaded to vrchat it has this weird bone error that involves the torso and basically forces my avatar to do a imploding eternal hoedown
Video: https://streamable.com/eraq1
this is what my avatar is supposed to look like standing still, not that https://i.imgur.com/5W1c1Z1.png
lament musk
Does anyone know how to prevent the eyes from bouncing and sliding around when moving/jumping?
hushed quiver
do u have dynamic bones affecting ur eyes @lament musk
could i see ur avatars rig in blender @small solstice
small solstice
sorry for wasting time but after trial and error i got it to work
had to rebuild the spine basically
and now its p good for a first attempt at making a custom avatar https://streamable.com/44hot
hushed quiver
ah alright
bronze fern
Looks great!
lusty depot
Shape keys holding the lips in place instead of moving got me like : 
sleek isle
Mmh sreenshot @lusty depot
You can always create new shapekey from mix
And put the close one to basis
sleek isle
Model seen missing information for the lips. Did you merge stuff?
lusty depot
Some, yeah
Haven't had this problem before so Idk how to fix
Im almost done with this but there's always 1 thing that breaks
Makes me ree
I think I know how to
How do I copy paste / drag shape keys?
sleek isle
Do you have a shape key that move the lips
lusty depot
I can take it from the head mesh I haven't screwed up
manic marsh
anyone can help me weight paint in blender 2.8?
idk what I am doing wrong
hm, Ruuubick is a pretty big rigging and painting guy, wonder if he can help me
sharp pewter
cuz its low poly weight paint only applies to verts
manic marsh
but the face ends right where the blue region ends, so painting on that imaginary line should affect the weight
hushed quiver
u have weight at 0? @manic marsh
manic marsh
yep
hushed quiver
have u tried with weights higher?
manic marsh
i can paint higher weights yes
hushed quiver
yeah thats why
u need to have ur weights set higher
if ur trying to remove weight u wanna be on the subtract blend
sharp pewter
mix will remove paint at 0
it sets the value of what ever you paint on to the number set in weight
hushed quiver
never really used mixed i normalyl use add subtract and blend
or blur not blend lol
sharp pewter
i use mix for just about everything and i paint more than i need to the first time as i find it faster to remove than add
also not sure about 2.8 but in 2.79 the brush will paint hidden objects so take care with that
sleek isle
@lusty depot name rhe shape key the same for the teeh and lips before merging
median socket
Anyone here have a few min to help me figure out a weird issue with my avatar?
lusty depot
What is the meme?
median socket
Meme?
lusty depot
Issue
median socket
Ah. Hands. Specificially fingers.
I made sure to use the rig from the example avatar,, spent hours making sure the weighting was all proper.
And it looks fine in the avatar editor.
But in unity gam view and VRC, I have hobbit fingers.
We can go OC if you wanna see pic examples
lusty depot
yee sure
median socket
Or I could whip up a blog post explaining the issue
vapid saddle
How can I rig an avatar from zero, is it easy?
hushed quiver
pretty much follow how the tutorial avatar is in the sdk
lament jay
Could someone help me with a model? the hands are all.. strange and some bones are not in the right order and some are missing... in the editor of the "Rig" section but on play mode , blender and in unity is all ok...
misty cradle
i try to rigg and weight paint my object in 2.8 (i have exp. in 2.7) but in 2.8 everytime when i go in weight paint mode i dont see my object in the typical blue where i see what is painted and what is not... how can i get this again??
sharp lily
drowsy wharf
@misty cradle can't offer help with 2.8, but figured I'd mention you can go back to 2.79 by right clicking blender in steam library, selecting properties, then betas, and setting it to 2.79a
misty cradle
i know i could do this^^ but i wanted to use 2.8 now
drowsy wharf
@lament jay you need to assign the msising bones, drag them from the left side in hierarchy into the rig. It looks like you don't have all the propper bones though, you're missing the distal bones on every finger...The little finger isn't being assigned due to a lack of "pinky" finger (as far as I can see on the left), you also have extra bones that probably aren't needed.
"Enforce T Pose" under the "Pose" at the bottom of the bone list on the right it might pose the fingers properly, but you're still missing bones, and one finger isn't correctly assigned.
indigo prawn
Which shader is good to put a pic in?
drowsy wharf
what do you mean? A shader to use for a static picture or something?
lament jay
@drowsy wharf i've tried to enforce T Pose and tried to clear the rigging and automap or do it my self but it doesen't work
drowsy wharf
"it doesn't work" isn't very clear...what exactly doesn't work when you do it?
lament jay
It just.. doesen't care about anything and it's the same
i'mma show you.. lemme open unity
drowsy wharf
changing the bone assignments isn't going to adjust the finger visual much, you have to apply it and enforce t pose to adjust.
If enforce t pose doesn't fix it, you can rotate them yourself and then apply it
The reason it's not angled correctly though is because the avatar isn't in a T-Pose by default, so Unity has to attempt to auto pose it for you, but Unity doesn't look at the direction a bone points, just the head of the bone (large end if looking in blender)
So it rotates most of them in line, but has no ending point for those, so it doesn't guess randomly to fix it.
lament jay
So i need to rotate them myself?
drowsy wharf
Yes...or you could just take it into blender and set the default pose as a T-Pose
drowsy wharf
Do you have CATS installed?
drowsy wharf
go into pose mode
Pose one side into a T shape
Press Control+C to copy it
Select the opposite side and press Control+Shift+V to paste the X axis flipped pose.
In CATS, click "Apply as Rest Pose" near the top
lament jay
"Pose one side into a T Shape"
lament jay
okkk
drowsy wharf
(could be straighter than this too)
standard T-Pose (elbows in this are bent a bit more forward than needed, good to avoid being completely straight though to help the IK orient itself.)
lament jay
i'm trying but.. it's my first time doing it
don't know if i'm doing it wrong
Is this ok?...
@drowsy wharf
drowsy wharf
Side view? can't tell if the fingers are pointing straight forward
lament jay
drowsy wharf
also you clearly have 3 finger bones...not sure why it wasn't showing them in Unity
drowsy wharf
fingers are probably good there
lament jay
It's a public model so.. XD
drowsy wharf
it looks like the end finger bones might not be weighted based on the first image there
eh, I can take a look if you just upload the model file, don't need the textures or anything
drowsy wharf
you can just upload it here
drowsy wharf
doesn't really matter for what's being checked
Make sure you join the meshes before you upload it too
drowsy wharf
you didn't actually send me your current version, you sent the original, didn't you want me to check it?
lament jay
oh
Sorry i was thinking you want to check the ENTIRE model z.z
Ok i'll send the current
Should i save it in "fbx"?
drowsy wharf
you should be able to just send your .blend file. But you could also export it as an FBX if you want to
lament jay
drowsy wharf
@lament jay you've removed the first finger bone on all of the fingers, and you have a giant fingerbone the size of the finger.
I'm not sure what you started doing before this, but it's not set up right compared to the original
you also have "thumb" named bones assigned as the first finger
drowsy wharf
you definitely did SOMETHING since the original
since the original was fine on the hands
lament jay
i just deleted the bow
drowsy wharf
you're missing entire finger bones and have new bones in their place...assuming you started with that mesh file before, you've done more than just that
lament jay
I.. don't know
Should i just put on unity the one with the bow?
so it's all.. fixed?
drowsy wharf
the bow isn't important at all, what's important is the proper bone structure has been messed up somehow
lament jay
Hm
Wait
if you see
The bow actually is connected to all the bones.. it has bones too
if i remove it and do "Fix model" with cats
it messes thingss up maybe
drowsy wharf
the giant finger bone should be the size of the others (not super important)
The later bones should be parented TO that bone
and no...just deleting a bow and fixing it wouldn't mess with other bones
lament jay
Don't know..
drowsy wharf
just because something has bones doesn't mean it has an affect on other bones
drowsy wharf
also you should be hitting "Fix model" first thing with CATS, not doing it afterwards
no it's not fine
lament jay
Oh..
drowsy wharf
I can see in the image that the second bones are parented to the wrist, not the first bone of the finger
stop pose mode, go into bone edit mode, and select the second bones and set the parent as the first
lament jay
Don't worry i've just imported the one with the bow
drowsy wharf
see the dotted line from the second bone of the middle finger back towards the wrist? that should be pointing to the first finger there
same for all the others, you can see the pinky one easily there too
drowsy wharf
er...no you still have to fix the fingers
CATS is definitely messing that up...it's parented properly before hand
lament jay
So what do i do?...
drowsy wharf
You fix the bone parenting
lament jay
How?...
drowsy wharf
@crystal vector Model file above (even with most recent version of CATS) has bone parenting distorted by cats. Changes index finger intermediate/distal bone names to thumb, and reassigns all intermediate finger bones as child of wrist.
It also seems to disconnect all finger bones...
It actually shifts all fingerbone names over by one towards pinky. Index finger named thumb, middle named index, ring named middle, and pinky named ring. Second thumb bone listed as "L_Finger01" but properly parented.
@lament jay select the second finger bone, go to the "bone" tab on the right, and set the parent to the correct bone
lament jay
It seems it won't let me do it z.z
Could you just fix it for me so we don't waste all this time? z.z...
drowsy wharf
you're in pose mode still, not in bone edit mode
drowsy wharf
select the bone before it on the same finger to check the name. It'll show in the bottom left corner of the scene, and it'll also show at the top of the bone config on the right
normally you'd just name them index 1, index 2, index 3 or similar
so it's much easier....not sure why CATS is renaming and reparenting them though
drowsy wharf
you were just checking the name of that bone, not copying what it's connected to
lament jay
oh..
Btw.. i think it's a bit too late for me i might continue tomorrow if i can or just.. idk.. do i tag you if i continue?
@drowsy wharf ...
drowsy wharf
you can, not sure if I'll be around
if you're tired though, get some sleep and try again later
lament jay
Yea.. i was just going to sleep
here it's 1:02 am
Soo uhh.. Thanks again for everything.. and goodnight..
crystal vector
@drowsy wharf Ah ok, I will need to rework the finger detection soon
lament jay
@drowsy wharf don't know if you're on but i've did both hands like you said...
steady patio
running into a spooky problem
cat's eye tracking tool doesnt appear to be working properly this time around
or maybe im just doing something wrong. setting the eye movement range doesnt appear to do anything meaningful, and it used to be much fairer in 2.79
any way i can manually fix this?
literally just moving the bones up fixed most of the issues, though the eyes still move a bit too much for my liking
eh whatever
steady patio
mhm
iron turret
Heyo, super new to all this here. Could someone explain to me how to edit an existing armature? I want to add another bone in between two but I can only select the entire thing.
In blender
steady patio
@iron turret select the armature and hit tab to go to edit mode
crisp tendon
For very basic questions you should start with blender tutorials on rigging @iron turret
iron turret
I've been digging through them and they've been no help. 👍
Lots of general stuff, not what I need specifically.
Every video I've found either works with a model from scratch or a complete model, nothing on editing a model.
crisp tendon
Did you Google your question as well ?
atomic moat
looking up tutorials at for the basics, helps you learn how every thing works in general reduces a lot of headache later on
but if you wanna connect two bones select one, and then select the one you wanna be the parent and then press ctrl+p
iron turret
Sure did. Seems like the tutorials I find aren't specific or an older version that doesn't work the same way anymore.
crisp tendon
Doesn't need to be a tutorial, this one can be explained in a screenshot, which I found in Google image by typing your question
It also depends which version of blender you're using
iron turret
I've done the ctrl-p connect and when I go to move the bones the one I'm trying to connect just floats off on it's own.
atomic moat
are you moving it in edit mode or pose mode
iron turret
And yes I've checked threads of other people asking questions with screen shots.
atomic moat
nvm that shouldn't have any bearing, if you go to the bone properties you can see/change the parent of that bone you can try doing it that way
iron turret
It moves like it should in edit mode, not in pose mode.
If I parent them, leave edit mode, and come back, they aren't connected anymore.
Actually it's not that.
It's that I have the two joints I want connected selected together, they move together, I parent them, deselect them, when I move the joint I've thought I created, it only moves one of them.
It just won't connect to the new bone I'm trying to add.
edgy ginkgo
is it possible to move the hand bones to anywhere to make like a power glove?
so the glove fingers would move even though they are far from the wrist?
sleek isle
I made a video to show I to make a king's raid model work for vrchat/quest but It will work for a lots of model and I show how to do full body/eye tracking and visemes as well. Timestamp in the description . Hope it help https://youtu.be/xJ9xzCRr0gY
stone patrol
anyone lose bones when merging two armatures together?
for some reason it keeps making one of my thumb bones disappear.
anyone ever deal with this issue?
naive tree
uncheck option in auto-fix that removes zero weight bones@stone patrol
and update your cats if you haven't
sharp urchin
yo could someone add bones to my avatar pls?
i mean its a dragon, idk how to add bones to him
crisp tendon
Find video tutorials and try it
crisp tendon
IK needs at least three fingers, so this is fine
sleek isle
on the hand 
stone patrol
@naive tree yes I've tried to uncheck the option that removes zero weight bones. Still removes one thumb bone. So frustrating.
sleek isle
dont hit fix then
crisp tendon
might be considered a leaf bone with its name
stone patrol
Its named Thumb1_R
crisp tendon
and it has weight paint ?
stone patrol
Yes I believe so
crisp tendon
Check ?
stone patrol
Cant atm getting ready for work. I will when done in a few hours.
crisp tendon
Learn about avatar rigging to fix some errors, and then keep adding bones to the humanoid armature
sharp urchin
i heard about the CATS instrument for blender, should i use it?
bronze fern
you dont need to, but its useful if you are doing MMD stuff
sharp urchin
oh ok
crisp tendon
It's still useful regardless of what you're making
But you most likely won't use it for a while
sharp urchin
still dont know the wings and that stuff but honestly idc
crisp tendon
It's fine, you're just beginning, you'll get there eventually
bronze fern
I just assumed it was for MMD stuff what can it do?
sharp urchin
i saw that it can translate bones from foregin languages and that stuff
bronze fern
Ya so mmd stuff
sharp urchin
what bones do i need, i mean can someone send me an image if the bones and what bones do i need?
and how to name them?
azure dust
highly detailed image of bones right there
sharp urchin
am i doing it right for now?
crisp tendon
@bronze fern download the plugin and look, there's like 50 different tools for avatar creation
it hasn't been MMD focused for more than a year
bronze fern
ive only been making stuff for a couple of months
so either way i wouldnt have known
but i shall check it
sharp urchin
i finished, now?
hmmm
i am ow thinking about it
now*
if the bones simulate the humanoid form then how will the arms work?
sharp urchin
and oof
sleek isle
fringe root
I have a pretty annoying issue with my hip sinking way further down than it should be when I sit down.
My proportions fit, i.e. my knees, feet, shoulders, hip etc. irl are where I touch them on the avatar. However, when sitting down, the hip goes way further down and ends up approximately three inches below where it's supposed to be
tl;dr: my hip in full body sinks a decent bit below where it should be when I sit down
sleek isle
Your character is small
fringe root
it's slightly smaller than the blue guy
sleek isle
make your own sit pose maybe
onyx matrix
does someone know how to weight paint 3d text in blender to bones?
sleek isle
weight paint? or paint
onyx matrix
weight paint
i tried the normal way of going about it liek you would clothing but that isnt working
queen mural
Select your text in object mode, then hit alt + c, and convert the text to a curve, and then hit alt + c again to convert the curve to a mesh.
you should avoid using text geometry for characters and opt for cutout or transparency textures on planes
onyx matrix
Ahh ok thank you so much
queen mural
@fringe root is the image shown what you see when you sit down?
fringe root
its a pic of the armature
queen mural
well from the image alone i can see a gap inbetween the stomach and the hip
i'm guessing you need to stitch that up and probably fix weightpainting
fringe root
and sit poses are not helping for fbt:)
thats not it either, the gap is intentional, the hip is painted correctly
thanks for looking into it anyway^^
apparently all avatars do it
even y bot
but significantly less so
queen mural
🤷
onyx matrix
@queen mural hey do you also know what is the hot-key to select multiple vertices by object?
or if anyone knows for that matter lol
queen mural
A to select all in edit mode Ctrl-L to select linked and you can select by material in edit mode within the properties
@onyx matrix
onyx matrix
Ahh ok perfect thank you trying to separate the mesh for a bit so that i can properly weight paint the hips
queen mural
you can use CATs to separate by material
separating by loose parts may not be ideal depending on the model
onyx matrix
yeah but that only separates the object into two materials which is the entire body and the hair
the body is one material entirely so i have to separate the body into multiple meshes
sharp urchin
Guys i need help with rigging an avatar, i tried but it looks scuffed
frozen abyss
@sharp urchin
try this:
you need to open you'r model in blender then delete you'r avatar's bone's then port this bone's to you'r model and then only thing you need to do is to parent mesh to bones and apply automatic weight's on it
then export it as fbx,obj or whatever you prefer but make sure unity recognized that and vrchat sdk will accept it.
then add avatar descriptor then set as humanoid and configure
uperchest to chest and delete uperchest option apply then upload to vrchat
and see if that help's
sharp urchin
ok
frozen abyss
that usually work's for me
but if that not help's you then you must google it
, search in youtube or you can search vrchat discord database for what you need
goog luck
sharp urchin
how do i import those bones?
frozen abyss
did you open up your blender?
sharp urchin
yep and i have my model
frozen abyss
if you do then first import you'r model and then delete model's bone's and then go to...
file>import>then chose that file i provide for you
sharp urchin
yeah i have a problem cuz the model isnt an human
frozen abyss
oh in that case i'm afraid that i can't help you in that
cause i never work with non humanoide models
sorry about that
frozen abyss
that model is wary nice
i hope that you fix you'r problem wary soon
have a good success
✌🏻
sharp urchin
one thing that dosent work is when i parent the bones to the meshes
can someone fix it?
last oak
i have my character's rig and mesh set up as in the top half. ingame the animations and everything work fine, but the hand's tilt angle is always downwards, as in the bottom half. other avatars (particularly the legacy vrchat dude) have their hands tilted more normally. i've searched a bunch, and i can't seem to find any documentation on what determines that tilt angle. any suggestions or recommendations here?
or in short: how the heck do i get my hand to at least roughly point along the interaction laser?
crisp tendon
Did you reset bone rolls in blender ?
runic spindle
Hey guys, been getting this error and still pretty new to making models. If I take off my shoulder clavicles then the T-pose breaks and i get "Character not in T-pose" in the top right.
Firstly, heres my rigging
If I take off the clavicles from "shoulder" and move my shoulder to upper arm, it won't let me upload because i'm "missing parts from the hiearchy"