#avatar-rigging

1 messages · Page 135 of 1

teal raft
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unity

next hazel
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I... don't think you can in Unity? I'm a UE4 person, but you should be able to edit bone structure in things like Blender

teal raft
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ohh ok

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Because just about to upload to vrchat, but there is an error message saying there is too many bones

proper ivy
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Try using blender with cats maybe?

next hazel
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I'll move the question here since it's likely more relevant. Trying to move the viewpoint for the avatar descriptor on a new non-human model, and it keeps sending the viewpoint to the far right side in-game. Centering the viewpoint as desired doesn't work, and I even over compensated a bit and it still shot it to the corner. Anyone know what might cause that?

teal raft
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I would but need to start learning blender

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i have the program and cats but just haven't got around to practicing basics yet

proper ivy
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Hmm, I never seen the issue before but have you made sure your view point is correct in unity @next hazel ?

next hazel
proper ivy
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Yeah, I know blender more then unity since i make my own models but is that a piano??

next hazel
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It's... a long story

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It's a project I'm doing for a video with a friend

proper ivy
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Hmm, do you have any duplicate components?

next hazel
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Not at all. The Descriptor is placed on the highest part in the hierarchy right?

proper ivy
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Uhhh, let me check real quick on mine

next hazel
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As in,
Piano <- Descriptor goes here
-- Thing 1
-- Addon2
-- Thing 3

proper ivy
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I'm no pro but does your layout look like this on the piano?

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Oh crud

next hazel
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XD

proper ivy
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I can't post images here

next hazel
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Post a printscreen link

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OR DM me

next hazel
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Issue was a misbehaving viewpoint position
Fix found, model origin was messed up in blender. Fix: redefine model origin and adjust transformation to 0,0,0 after new origin applied.

stone portal
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@Roxas1156#2924 😏 I spot a pony boi.

spring crag
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ok are you here?

fading verge
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@spring crag

spring crag
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so are you trying to make the... boobies bouncy?

fading verge
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yes,

spring crag
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is that what you're trying to do lol

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ok

fading verge
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I'm sorry but they're double D and I just want titties

spring crag
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anyways, do you know what it means to bind the skin of a mesh to a skeleton?

fading verge
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Yes I do but I have no idea how to do it.

spring crag
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how much experience do you have with modeling

fading verge
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In vrchat about.. 1 year maybe?

spring crag
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and this is in unity?

fading verge
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Yes in Unity.

ivory radish
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weight painting is done in blender, maya, or etc

cursive apex
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I am having a huge brainfart right now

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do you normally have your arm bones rolled at 30 degrees in t-pose or do you leave them at zero

civic sorrel
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bone rolls are normally at 0 i think

cursive apex
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i thought on the arms it was different. hmmmrrr

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and all my models have been using 30 degrees. guess i'll upload it at zero and see

light kindle
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i mean if their at 30 deg. and they look fine i wouldnt change em

cursive apex
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I played with a few different rolls and it just changes the point at which the vrc ik breaks. There's no work around. It's just how the FBT IK is

last hatch
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Hey. Does anyone know how to rig a non-humanoid model to a humanoid Armature?
I've seen that there is a Full Body Dinosaur so I know it's possible, but Idk how they did that

ivory radish
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u set it up same way u would a bipedal rig

fading verge
gritty nest
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Define "this". @fading verge

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You mean the arms clipping through the sleeves?

fading verge
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they extend

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the sleeves extend

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makes no sense i dont understand it

gritty nest
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Oh wtf lmao

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Maybe they have weight on another bone like the head

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Check that first

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Make sure no incorrect groups have weight on the sleeves

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Then check bone positions

fading verge
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okey

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@gritty nest

gritty nest
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Have you checked all other vertex groups to see if they have weight on the sleeves?

fading verge
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yes and the only other bone that has weight on the sleeves is the parent of the forearm

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it kinda moves with me when i look up and down

fading verge
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apprntly something to do with the eyes

gritty nest
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Ohh, I get it now.

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@fading verge

fading verge
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mh

gritty nest
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The first four shape keys on your Body mesh have to be blinking and lower eyelid related

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You appear to be either missing a few, or these shape keys are bugged

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Regenerate eye tracking in Cats

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That explains why the sleeves stretch when you look up/down.

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Did you perhaps shorten the sleeves when you made the model?

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Could be that they're being reverted on every single shape key

fading verge
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yeah

gritty nest
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If so, select the sleeves and perform Shape Propagate

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In Blender

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Or separate the jacket/sleeves from your face, and delete the shape keys that should not apply to the sleeves

fading verge
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oh

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thank u

sleek isle
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Delete the vertex that you dont see under a coat for example so no cliping

woeful ice
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anybody seen something like this happen before?

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she just animates backwards

gritty nest
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@woeful ice left/right arms or legs may be switched in the humanoid rig config

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Check that the left arm is actually the arm on the left

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Or maybe an import error of some sort

woeful ice
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it seems to do it for all the league models sadly

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arms are where they are supposed to be

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when i go to set the rigging the avatar seems to turn around and when i manually turn it around in the rigging screen the arms stay permanently up

gritty nest
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Your model being turned around in rigging is a prime sign that your left/right arms are swapped in the mapping, or the legs. @woeful ice

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Or both

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Go to blender and verify that the naming for the bones is correct, and that the left leg is indeed named left leg, and not right leg or leg.r

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Then make sure they are also assigned correctly in Unity

woeful ice
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alight ill double check

idle kiln
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Is it possible to do the weapon appearing animation that contains bones and attach the dynamic bones to them?

ivory radish
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i mean cant u just

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enable and disable the mesh for it

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u dont need a mesh to have active dynamic bones

sly mirage
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Anyone want to rig the eyes for a Froppy my hero acedemia ones justice model? My full post is in #Avatars

sleek ether
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Hey guys, im having quite a problem here, im rigging a pair of wings on blender so i can make a idle animation on unity but i cant parent with automatic weights because os doubles, but the problem is that if i remove doubles the wings have broken textures on unity, is there any way to work around it without manually weightpainting (because i suck at it) ?

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i also tried parenting with eveloping weights and it looks horrible

gritty nest
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Broken textures in Unity but not in Blender? @sleek ether

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Can you post screenshots?

sleek ether
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yes wait a little bit

gritty nest
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I suspect this is a matter of the model having duplicate faces, so they can have texture on both sides of the model. Removing doubles will break this. An easy solution is to just use a double-sided shader in Unity.

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A lot of shaders (especially toony ones) support double-sidedness

sleek ether
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i usually use cubed shaders on my textures

gritty nest
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The non-lite Cubed's requires you to turn on zero-width outlines with a white tint to have "double-sidedness" (sorta)

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I think Cubed's lite would work better

sleek ether
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yes i use the flat lit toon one

cursive apex
slow kettle
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I'm not exactly sure what's causing this

gritty nest
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@slow kettle you probably have multiple vertex groups with the same name.

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Or your weights aren't normalized

slow kettle
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I'll look into either, see if I can identify those, thanks~

molten rock
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anyone have some good dynamic bone settings for a shirt / coat?

errant wing
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@cursive apex i'm not using full body tracking i just wanted to fix the weird squat with the custom idle animation

sly mirage
opal aurora
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@sly mirage I could give it a look myself, are the pupils literally part of the eyeball?

frosty egret
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does anyone know how to rig a 4 legged avatar? ive been trying for weeks now to no avail

cursive apex
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you can either rig it as a humanoid and weight paint the back legs to the front which wont look natural, or rig it as a quadraped and make manual animations for everything

frosty egret
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hmmm ok ill see if that works

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thank you

white spruce
fading verge
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do you have a custom animation override on the model?

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because if you changed the idle animation, it could be changing some rotation values on the legs on top of the IK, so it would look funky

white spruce
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No,

fading verge
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fix the bone rotation

faint light
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I have a similar issue when some of my models walk

naive tree
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make screenshot of the leg bones in blender, numpad5+numpad1 and numpad3@white spruce

last hatch
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If I have an avatar with say like four arms how would I have to rig the model that I can control all four arms.
So like two are my actual hands and the other two have the same position and rotation just with an offset a bit down.
I know I can't just make weight paint the lower arms to the upper ones because they would stretch if the bones are rotated.
Does anyone know how to achieve this?

sleek isle
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Rigid body

last hatch
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Oh... So just put bones into the other two arms like I would with the normal ones and add rigid bodies to them and "parent" them to the actual hands in unity?

sleek isle
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Kind of

last hatch
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Okay. Thanks I will try that 😄

sleek isle
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Parent the arms to the chest like nomal one and in unity use regid body and fix joint

last hatch
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Yeah... That's what I meant 😅

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Thanks

white spruce
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@fading verge How may I fix the bone rotation?

digital stream
gritty nest
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@digital stream you have to slightly bend the legs in Blender in pose mode

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Then apply as rest pose

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The leg bones are too straight and the IK has no way of knowing which way the knees should bend.

digital stream
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bend forwards or backwards?

gritty nest
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Forwards. As in, it has to be slightly bent into the correct orientation

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If your knees should bend forwards then bend them forwards

white spruce
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Should it work for me?

digital stream
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Alright thanks will give that a try.

white spruce
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im kinda stuck

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😅

digital stream
white spruce
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@digital stream Probably the knees by looks of it, stuck here myself but shouldnt the bones be inside their respective mesh or whatever?

digital stream
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Ahh ok, it's a gmod rig so kind of weird.

white spruce
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mine is different problem but just waiting on response

gritty nest
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The knee joint has to be further forward

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So the base of the lower leg has to start further forward

white spruce
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who

ivory radish
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also pose the character so the legs are completely straight

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unity might not rotate them correctly

white spruce
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who

ivory radish
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the person with the terribly rotated legs

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in blender

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and also urs

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legs should not be

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//\\

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should be | || |

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also feet should be _ _

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not \ /

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best practice for rigs is 2 tpose them in blender properly

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cuz that way less chance of bugging and can reset the pose if it incorrect when enforced

white spruce
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ah

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Should I set the ankles lower?

dark pollen
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I've been trying to get sound working on a friend's avatar and I guess I found out why it's not working >:/

pseudo sedge
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@dark pollen sdk has a code that force settings on audio to be like that

dark pollen
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How do I get sound working then?

unique tartan
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So, I gave up on a skeleton set cuz it didn't have proper armatures, instead I am making my own armatures for the model. Any tips? Where should I start?

ivory radish
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for making a skeleton rig thats actualy really simple

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skeletons have literally no bending skin (most likely) so

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u would just be giving each bone 100% weighting

lusty sphinx
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Is there any specific naming convention I should use for bones, specifically for hands?
Also, how do I specify certain parts of the model to tie to certain bones?

ivory radish
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yea the ones CATS changes them to

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but not rlly if unity doesnt detect it u can just manually map them

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also ur not 'tying' anything

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what is going on is that every bone has some amount of 'influence' on specific verts of the mesh

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and those influences are averaged together

lusty sphinx
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some parts of the mesh have no influence to any specific bone that I can tell

ivory radish
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so if u look at the weights for the bones of a model u will see them interpolating from bone to bone

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they dont have 2 have any

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some amount could be 0

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u should get rid of any empty bones most likely as they add 2 the bone counts

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except for the ones used for full body fix

lusty sphinx
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I've applied Cats fix

ivory radish
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its simply not weighted

lusty sphinx
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can I specify certain areas of the character mesh to have more weight to certain bones?

ivory radish
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weight is again

lusty sphinx
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ok, how do enter that screen?

ivory radish
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an amount of influence

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u wouldnt use this anyways u would use the manual vertex group tools

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bc u could just select the verts u want and give them 100% weight

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easier than painting it manually

lusty sphinx
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is that an addon, or is it basic blender?

ivory radish
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?? it just blender

lusty sphinx
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ok

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if you can't tell, first time rigging a model, I've only used blender for like a total of 20 hours

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making the models was pretty intuitive, rigging is hard and dumb

ivory radish
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im pretty sure u didnt use blenders auto weight paint or rigging tools

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idk

lusty sphinx
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ctl+p, with automatic weights

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selected both model and bones

ivory radish
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well yea then its supposed 2 do that

lusty sphinx
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i then hit "fix model" in CATS

ivory radish
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influence volumes dont work correctly when there are separated parts of a mesh

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so it will leave hanging/loose objects with odd painting

lusty sphinx
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and it did a bunch of stuff, one of those thing being applying the texture for some reason?

mortal mist
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Can anyone please explain this error to me, i'm not quite sure what is wrong with sdk but if someone knows help would be very much appreciated(Can't add script Please fix compile errors before creating new script components) for the errors, i would need to dm i suppose it takes a while to type out

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i have them in the console

lusty sphinx
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That sounds more like a general Unity issue

mortal mist
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i think ive fixed it, but the issue is caused whenever i import the vrchat sdk

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it has errors

opal aurora
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The sdk always has errors iirc, nothing that prevents its general functionality however

mortal mist
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idk, it just wouldnt allow me to use any imported components, such as dynamic bones, but i think ive worked around it by just rigging the bones, then importing the sdk afterwards

opal aurora
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Yeah that shouldn't happen at all...

mortal mist
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it kept happening, but in my personal experience things that happen to me never seem to be a thing for others, so I just take it or leave it

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it does seem ok now though, just can't have the sdk imported before i do the dynamic bones

gritty nest
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@mortal mist which Unity version are you using?

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If you have compile errors you will not be able to upload anyway

stone relic
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mind if i get a bit of help with this?

i'm having trouble with a avatar and the way it walks and crouches,
the walking is slightly awkward looking and when it crouches instead of doing a normal crouch, the avatar crouches like it's a crab or something.
think the model itself is fine, i think it's the rigging but i don't know what part of the rigging could be causing it.

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will get screenshots of the rigging soon

white spruce
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@stone relic if you saw my problem, youd need to put its legs closer and set it as the rest pos. In blender.

fading verge
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u forgot to delete the toes.

gritty nest
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@stone relic straighten the legs out in rigging

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Then apply

stone relic
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will attempt this, will tell you how it goes

fading verge
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I hear a polly count over 10000 is too high, I happen to have an avatar thats 1425??

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how can I lower this.

gritty nest
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70k is too high

silent agate
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I may have accidentally rigged incorrectly

white spruce
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damn

mortal mist
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@silent agate You may be correct

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@gritty nest it let me upload just fine, it was a console error that solely was problematic when i had not already imported the other packages

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and as for the unity version, it is just the defult given by vrchat atm

worthy steppe
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How do I fix this? vrpill

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pls help

gloomy pollen
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try resetting pose

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then enforce t-pose

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if that doesnt work you will have to move them yourself by clicking and dragging them around

worthy steppe
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it looks fine until I look at the bones but still messed up

ivory radish
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every humanoid avatar has to be posed in a near perfect t-pose for any animations and IK to work properly

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also if u have issues with finger rotations, either t-pose the model in whatever program u exported from (and reset the pose in unity) or encforce t-pose

worthy steppe
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that was helpful but now I need to fix the spine. is there a quick way to parent in unity?

ivory radish
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just set that bone with the shoulders as the chest

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the chest has 2 specifically have the shoulders connected 2 it

worthy steppe
ivory radish
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thats bc ur bones are wrong

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u didnt correctly set up the rig

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shoulders and neck both need 2 be a parent of the chest bone

worthy steppe
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which is why I asked if there was a fast way to parent in unity

ivory radish
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no

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unity should not be used to edit models themselves or rigging

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its designed to make games (and in this case to add other stuff to existing models and rigs)

lusty sphinx
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Sorry to bother again, but In the weight paint mode, whenever I try and select a bone to see where weight is distrubited, it selects the whole seleton and goes out of paint mode

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also, clicking "Fix Model" in cats scews up the legs?

mortal mist
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do the new bones do anything in pose mode

lusty sphinx
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no, they have no weights

mortal mist
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if not then they should not matter since they don't have weight

lusty sphinx
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the **** Leg 2

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well, the bone that does have weights is now in the hips

mortal mist
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does leg 2 move in pose

lusty sphinx
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no

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leg one moves where 2 is

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but it's not in that position

mortal mist
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try moving Left Leg and Right Leg into the proper positions and delete the new ones

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bone parent the knees respectively as well

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you can undo if this doesnt help

lusty sphinx
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I deleted the legs, because I didn't know where they came from, hit "fix model" and they came back. I can ctrl z them away

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and about the first problem?

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In the weight paint mode, whenever I try and select a bone to see where weight is distrubited, it selects the whole seleton and goes out of paint mode

mortal mist
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im not completely sure, i mostly weight paint with vertex groups

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for gestures

lusty sphinx
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But with vertex groups, I have to select each vertex at a time and change the weights per group

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and with 2000 verts, I don't have 8 hours to spend

mortal mist
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you cant select say the left arm vertex group select the mesh, then ctrl + tab

lusty sphinx
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thanks

mortal mist
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did that help then

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?

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it only becomes a bigger problem when there isn't a vertex group, in that case you would need to make one, which i have done, it was a pain to teach myself how to do

lusty sphinx
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I found out how, I enter pose mode in cats, then I can select individual bones while in paint mode

ivory radish
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well ur supposed 2 have empty leg bones when using full body tracking fix

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its one of the only ways 2 prevent a messed up hip

lusty sphinx
ivory radish
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well yea

lusty sphinx
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ohh

ivory radish
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well ur supposed 2 have empty leg bones when using full body tracking fix

lusty sphinx
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but i meant those bones

ivory radish
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if u even looked at what that fix does or read about it

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u would know that it specifically says

lusty sphinx
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I would have thought maybe the bones above would be empty

ivory radish
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that it creates fake leg bones

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that point to the knee

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makes actual leg bones point up

lusty sphinx
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I just read it, and whent "oh, that makes full body possible"

ivory radish
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and makes hips point down

lusty sphinx
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ahh

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Will that mess up non-fullbody userage?

ivory radish
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which is exactly what the tool does

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and no that doesnt make sense

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thats like asking

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'wow does that mean every avatar thats meant for fullbody doesnt work if u dont have it'

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when obv thats not the case

lusty sphinx
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misread what you said

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sorry

velvet fractal
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How do you change the bones shape?

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Like, there's the 3d bone, the stick bone and the sketchy bone that's usually on CATS

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isn't there a way to set that up?

gloomy pollen
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is there a nice trick to have certain visemes at 100% by default?

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and then scale it back to 0% with an animation override?

solid adder
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@gloomy pollen select the body in your Avatar's heirarchy while in Unity, there should be a tab in your inspector window that says Blendshapes

gloomy pollen
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hmm just Inspector and Services

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oh I see what you are saying

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Select then then I have Model, Rig, Animation, Materials

solid adder
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Yep, you can adjust the blendshapes from there and bring them to zero with an animation

gloomy pollen
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i only see Import Blendshapes

solid adder
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Does the model have shapekeys?

gloomy pollen
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yeah

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do you mean actually press the Select button?

solid adder
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Did you select the body in the heirarchy?

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As in
Your Avatar
Armature
Body ←

gloomy pollen
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yeah did now

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oh

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I see it, thanks 😉

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it was hiding from me

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appreciate the help 😄

solid adder
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Inspector window should have Blendshapes Bounding Box, and the materials that are on the avatar

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Things like that

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👌

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And then it will be the same thing when it comes to animating, simply select the shapekeys you want and bring them from 100 or wherever you gave them to 0

gloomy pollen
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gosh dang high heels

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what was it again? reset point of origin in blender?

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yeah it worked perfect, thanks 😄

solid adder
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That I do not know right off the top of my head

gloomy pollen
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hm

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google ahoy!

white spruce
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I have eye bones but eye bones dont work when I set up eye tracking through CATs and then attach the eyes on in unity

pseudo sedge
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@white spruce your eyes on mesh called Body or you separate it? also you enable Visemes in unity? without it will not work as i remember

white spruce
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no the eyes are weight painted to the bones

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also the avatar doesnt have visemes as far as i know

ivory radish
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the eyes have 2 have the correct naming

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u also need 4 shape keys (blend shapes)

pseudo sedge
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if cats do this then it must be fine, and about meshes, eyes must be a part of one meshes named Body that's i mean

white spruce
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oooh boy

ivory radish
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their names dont matter but u need 2 blinking and 2 extra shape keys

white spruce
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?

ivory radish
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it uses the first 4

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the eyes dont, just the mesh with the face or etc

white spruce
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Im afraid I dont follow

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cause all the 2s and 4s.

ivory radish
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?

white spruce
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I am confused because of your grammar, and that i dont understand why it needs like 8

ivory radish
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no

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i said

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u need correct naming for ey ebones

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and 4 shape keys

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where did i say 8

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or 2 * 4

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nowhere

white spruce
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'u need 2 blinking'

ivory radish
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yea

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4 shape keys: 2 blinking, 2 extra

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simple math 2 + 2 = 4 xd

white spruce
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Im just saying, can you speak bit normally so I would understand?

pseudo sedge
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blink left, right ; lowerlid left right ) shapes - 4 at total

white spruce
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bit better at least?

ivory radish
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n0

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cuz u can just google it anyway theres a document explaining it

white spruce
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well i found blink thing

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but it closes both eyes

ivory radish
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again

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here i googled 4 u

white spruce
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For, you mean.

ivory radish
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idc

white spruce
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But, I will try this and come back if it doesnt work.

worthy steppe
ivory radish
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weight painting

solar raft
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It looks like youve got a ripped edge, there are likely two vertices for each vertex in that edge

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Weight wouldnt disconnect it

ivory radish
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yes it would..

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the shirt has weight on it

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doesnt have enough seemingly

solar raft
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If the vertices are connected and have a face it wont just disappear because of weight...?

ivory radish
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whether or not things are connected dont matter

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weights are vertex influence weights

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so if 2 vertices have the same influences and are in the same position

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they move the same way

solar raft
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The collar and shirt are very clearly two separate meshes in that gif

ivory radish
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so what

solar raft
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So if they were connected it would have a face there instead of a hole

ivory radish
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cool

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but what does that have 2 do with weighting

solar raft
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He asked why its ripped open

ivory radish
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the weight painting is just really bad

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there will be terrible stretching if u just join the faces together

worthy steppe
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uhhhhhhh

ivory radish
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see obv

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the weight just cuts off

solar raft
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Its also not like I denied that it wasnt weight

ivory radish
#

ye but it wouldnt rlly solve a problem

#

it would just replace one with another

solar raft
#

Theres no reason to leave meshes separate like that

ivory radish
#

well yea there isnt a reason granted

#

but its not necessary

#

2 fix this issue u need 2 fix weight painting regardless

#

also blender will not

#

properly autorig meshes with multiple loose parts and layers

#

if thats what u used

worthy steppe
#

so what do I need to do to fix this?

solar raft
#

Weight paint it and consider combining the meshes

ivory radish
#

" u need 2 fix [the] weight painting "

worthy steppe
solar raft
#

So the vertices are ripped

#

Select each set of two and hit space then find merge at center

#

Then weight paint them so it contorts smoothly

ivory radish
#

again nothing u can do will fix this

#

unless u fix the weight painting in specific

worthy steppe
#

uhhhhhh

solar raft
#

Wunder you also misunderstood that what I said before was under the impression that if the vertices were not ripped there wouldnt be a tear

ivory radish
#

no i understood

#

thats why i mentioned later ur just fixing a problem by adding another one

solar raft
#

Then you must have claimed that weight can rip connected vertices

#

Which is false

ivory radish
#

no

#

u would just be stretching the mesh at that point

solar raft
#

Weight only moves vertices it does not rip them

#

Yes

ivory radish
#

which i literally said

solar raft
#

You literally ignored what I said to say something else

ivory radish
#

but its not necessary thats what i saying

worthy steppe
#

Im so confused...

ivory radish
#

u need to **WEIGHT PAINT** the mesh correcty

solar raft
#

Its a cleanliness thing, its bad practice to leave random holes in your models

ivory radish
#

if u dont know anything about WEIGHT PAINTING then google it

solar raft
#

Do you put a bunch of rips in your model and weight paint them so they dont show?

ivory radish
#

not my point

solar raft
#

Its mine

ivory radish
#

and again it doesnt fix their problem at all

#

its just a suggestion

solar raft
#

Meshes should be continuous, ask anyone who works in the industry

ivory radish
#

i dont care

solar raft
#

Then dont get upset when I give a suggestion to someone that you disagree but somehow dont with

ivory radish
#

im offering a solution and u keep arguing about that advice when my point was that it was not necessary

solar raft
#

I never argued against weight

ivory radish
#

there is no need to discuss it so stop trying

#

completely off topic

#

u keep arguing about that advice

#

i dont disagree with anything

solar raft
#

Why would you suggest to stop talking about it and then entice more?

#

Just stop

ivory radish
#

im not enticing

worthy steppe
#

So my take on this is to just weight paint it till both sides are green?

solar raft
#

Yes

worthy steppe
#

ok. That makes a lot more sense

solar raft
#

But again, your models will be cleaner if you avoid tears

worthy steppe
#

the turtleneck already came that way. I suppose I should only deal with clean models next time

solar raft
#

Most models arent too difficult to clean anyway, most are broken to some extent so avoiding it 100% is very difficult and limiting

#

Learning to take a model and make the most out of it is important if you dont model yourself

worthy steppe
white spruce
#

yeah i cant

solar raft
#

Youll have to just play around with the weight until it moves the way you like, I dont know how you want the neck to behave.

#

But yes, you want a smoother transition like that

#

Generally

ivory radish
#

also

#

u shouldnt use blue to green

#

try to use blue to red instead

solar raft
#

^^

ivory radish
#

its called normalizing

#

and while u will have basically the same weighting (bc it averages) it will look better paint-wise and its less difficult to mess up

worthy steppe
#

nnn. So it will help because the green has done nothing 😂

ivory radish
#

again weights are averaged

#

so thats most likely not the only spot with weight painting there

solar raft
#

.....

#

Merge the vertices

ivory radish
#

just use the remove doubles tool from CATS or something

#

the blender one would work also but CATS does it more safely and u can do all meshes including face

solar raft
#

I usually avoid it on models that have high detail areas. I usually manually fix them if I find them

ivory radish
#

well yea but dont u gotta do it individually or remove doubles with selection

sleek isle
#

merge the vertex

worthy steppe
#

how?

sleek isle
#

select the vertex of the shirt in edit mode with alt L

#

W

#

remove double

worthy steppe
#

thank you so much

sleek isle
#

keep the shirt select and select the head bone and in the vertex(the triangle on the right) tab click remove

pastel tulip
gloomy pollen
#

looks like you have one of the eye/blink visemes set to the mouth or the blush

#

in the "create eye tracking" box

pastel tulip
#

Is it normal for it to happen in general with all the models?

gritty nest
#

Don't use lower eyelid

#

It seems the shape key might be breaking

#

Regenerate eye tracking with lowerlid set to basis

pastel tulip
#

Thanks for the help, I'll try with that

gloomy pollen
#

anyone know why a particle emitter wont move with the head/tongue?

#

it seems to generate the particle at the position of the head when its not leaning

#

works fine in unity

trail path
#

and the particle emitter is a child of the head/tongue?

gloomy pollen
#

yeah

#

made an empty object so i could enable/disable

#

but its a child of the tongue

#

like a "sneeze" effect

#

it just sprays some water drops

#

but if i bend over it generates it where my head would be in t-pose

trail path
#

try setting your simulation space to local on the particle system

gloomy pollen
#

hmmm that would look weird but ok

trail path
#

with the current IK system it doesn't work properly with world simulated particles

gloomy pollen
#

oh damn

#

hmmm

#

yeah that does it

#

rip

trail path
#

hmm... I'm having some issues with the dynamic bones script, can't attach any dynamic bone colliders to the actual colliders element fields

#

anyone have any idea why that might be?

gloomy pollen
#

thats weird now its emitting out of my forehead lol

#

grinjr dont grab the collider object

#

grab the bone from the left menu

#

and drop the bone in

trail path
gloomy pollen
#

do you always use kanji?

#

it may be a font problem

trail path
#

maybe

gloomy pollen
#

try renaming (f2)

trail path
#

nah that doesn't work either

gloomy pollen
#

oh wait

#

i think you cant use a collider thats

#

from a different mesh

#

or a child of the dynamic bone

#

something like that

trail path
#

it's on the same object as the dynamic bone but I tried putting it on another bone as well

gloomy pollen
#

another bone outside of the parent?

trail path
#

yeah

#

tried putting it on a bone on one of the children, on the parent, on the parent of the parent, objects outside, even on a completely different gameobject from the model itself...

gloomy pollen
#

try reimporting the dynamic bone scripts

#

delete them

trail path
#

nope still just won't assign lol

#

I can drop it on the field it just doesn't... actually take it... lol

gloomy pollen
#

check your other dynamic bones

#

maybe you accidentally forgot to exclude a larger parent

trail path
#

nah I only have this one...

#

it's fine though, if I make the dynamic bone more stiffer it shouldn't be too big of an issue

gloomy pollen
#

colliders for hair wont help unless the bones are very close together and there are many

#

if there are gaps in the spheres it will clip still

#

and you'll just be wasting cpu reasources of everyone 😛

#

anyone know why a single particle emitter is coming out way above the emitter sometimes?

stone relic
#

what do you do when the knees of a avatar buckle up into each other when you crouch, but your walking animations and everything else is fine?

fading verge
#

Fix the Bone rotation

gritty nest
#

@stone relic make sure the knees are slightly bent in Blender

#

So go into pose mode, bend the knees slightly then apply as rest pose

#

Leg bones that are too straight will cause the IK to do this

lusty sphinx
#

when I enter rig configure mode in unity for the VRCSDK, the fingers become mangled. Is that normal?

#

they're fine when I exit rig config mode

gritty nest
#

That isn't normal. You can forcibly rotate them back into place, they'll be "mangled" ingame too otherwise.

#

Usually this is because the fingertips aren't pointing the right way in Blender

#

Like when the fingertip bones are pointing straight up

lusty sphinx
#

Nah, unity apears to have taken all of the bones and mahsed them together, like someone grabbing all your fingers in they're hand and squeesing with the compressionforce of a car crash

#

the "thumb" there is the index finger

gritty nest
#

Oof

#

Make sure the bones are mapped correctly

lusty sphinx
#

they are

gritty nest
#

Triple-check the mappings, make sure index finger is actually in the index finger slot. Also make sure that the bone named "index finger" is actually the index finger, all that stuff

#

It's really easy to not notice when Unity swaps stuff around

lusty sphinx
#

Oh, there's a "reset pose" button

#

and it complains that It's "not in T-Pose"

#

this model is very clearly in TPose

gritty nest
#

You could Reset Pose then just apply.

#

The warning doesn't matter

lusty sphinx
#

ah

#

thanks

#

Why is the warning there if it doesn't do anything?

gritty nest
#

Because Unity thinks it's not in T-pose and that it may cause issues

lusty sphinx
#

but not for VRC?

gritty nest
#

No, it won't cause issues, it's just a warning.

lusty sphinx
#

thanks

ivory radish
#

yea it doesnt cause issues at all unless:

#

the bones arent visually in T-Pose

#

bc it uses whatever the bones current rotations are

#

and rotates them as needed

#

but yea either fix ur bone rotations or tpose in blender and reset the pose

white spruce
#

Okay what I figured out is that the avtar im trying to get viasemes and such on already has them but it just wont work

sleek isle
#

it just work

white spruce
#

it doesnt

sleek isle
#

retry

white spruce
#

Not to say rudely back, I already tried last night after complaining bout viasemes

pine harbor
#

are the visemes not working in unity, blender, or both?

white spruce
#

In Unity, cause I tested each one putting from 0.00 to 1.00 and back to 0.00, remember clicking create visemes and it sucsessfully did it

pine harbor
#

"create visemes" as in the CATS option? did you check that the 3 visemes you used were all different to each other?

#

my guess is that if you either didn't choose 3 different base visemes to generate the rest, or if all 3 of the ones you used are identical to basis, then all the generated viseme entries don't actually do anything to the model

opal aurora
#

@gritty nest Honestly, i'm not so sure if that warning literally causes no issues, if i didn't enforce t-pose on a model that unity thought wasn't in t-pose (which it was, and i checked all of the transforms myself multiple times including bone rolls and general locations and names), and when it was used in VRC it has the arms literally sticking between the hips to the back, whereas when unity applied its "t-pose" it worked just fine, and it literally barely changed it at all, which is the weird part

#

It still baffles me to this day

#

Correction, it's in A-pose

#

I've never had this happen with any other model that was in A-Pose, the arms literally just crossed behind on the thighs

gritty nest
#

No, see

#

It has to be in T-pose

white spruce
#

@pine harbor No. I did check each one. They are all different from each other.

gritty nest
#

It's just that if you get warnings while it's already in T-pose it's fine.

opal aurora
#

Let me try a different approach to it then and pose it accordingly

#

In blender that is

#

That bending still looks ridiculous however

pine harbor
#

@white spruce Just double checking: in Unity, are you setting the visemes to 1 or 100 to check? Because while Blender uses its shape keys on a scale of 0-1, Unity goes from 0-100

opal aurora
#

Huh, and suddenly i feel genuinely confused and possibly stupid

#

I was almost 100% certain i had worked with a-posed models in unity, and they worked just fine...

#

At this point i feel like i'm imagining most of the things i've worked with

#

Setting it to a standard t-pose seems to have worked however, so neat

#

I could've sworn i had tried this before and it didn't work though... god this is confusing

#

The more you think you know about a subject the less you're proven to know, heh

#

And heya spearmonkey, long time no see

pine harbor
#

whattup o/

opal aurora
#

Nm, just helpin' out peeps like usual, hbu?

pine harbor
#

truth be told, there's so much trial and error to wade through while figuring out how to get stuff working in unity that one's memory starts kind of blurring together about what you've seen before

#

i'm looking at some of my first-ever blender files when i had no idea what to do, and i've got no idea how i eventually sorted those models out now with the mess some of the old backups are in

#

Unity T-poses...yeaaaaah, probably safest to just get them as close to what looks normal

opal aurora
#

That arm bending though, jesus christ, i'm still kinda baffled at how bad it is

#

That there being the standard idle

#

Seriously though, is my mind just literally hazzy at the moment and unity never "sort of" or "indirectly" supported a-posed models?

#

Without force-t-posing them that is

#

I mean regardless of the situation i can work with either without any issues as posing's pretty simple, but i really could've sworn it did

pine harbor
#

hmm, for it to cross behind the thighs, the shoulders have to be turning close to 90 degrees...ah

#

fair warning, just a theory: but for a T-posed model to have its arms by its side in a relaxed pose, you'd have to bend the shoulders 90 degrees from the original T-posed position

#

if you had an A-posed model which tried to do the same thing, but still bent the full 90 degrees without considering the fact that the shoulders are already slightly lowered...that's when you'd wind up with the crossed-through-hips thing

opal aurora
#

I mean, in general the base pose established in unity is used as the "base" for everything, so it makes sense for t-pose to be the norm, and if one thinks of it that way then them being lowered would make them pivot inwards even further, it just feels like a very steep turn, but it's far from unfeasible

#

I guess i just answered my own question with my own logic pfft

white spruce
#

@pine harbor Probably not done anything like that. Mind telling me how to?

pine harbor
#

with your mesh selected in the hierarchy, open up its skinned mesh renderer and look in the "blend shapes" -- they should all be set to 0 by default, but set the number to 100 on them one at a time to see if they're doing what your visemes should be doing

https://i.stack.imgur.com/QSHxd.jpg

#

there may be some miscommunication going on though, because you mentioned something earlier about "testing each one, putting from 0.00 to 1.00 and back to 0.00" -- if that wasn't done in Unity, then i'm unsure of how you confirmed that your visemes weren't working there

gritty nest
#

Also every slot has to be filled in for it to work.

#

For the ingame lipsync I mean

pine harbor
#

oh wait, is he talking about lip syncing rather than just the visemes themselves for facial gestures? yeah, that adds some extra worms to the can

#

proper eye tracking also requires the first 4 visemes to be in a specific order

#

@opal aurora Yeah, I think that should be the right idea. If you've ever worked with MMD, try using a dance motion designed for an A-posed model (i.e. most vocaloids) on something that's been brought in as a T-posed model -- it might still look okay-ish, but you'll definitely notice differences if it's played alongside an A-posed model using the same motion

#

should basically be what's happening here if you throw an A-posed model into Unity and then tell it that it's in the proper bind pose -- Unity remaps all the motions for T-posed stuff

#

or "retargets" is probably the more correct term

opal aurora
#

Yeah, i've worked with alota VMD's in the past, fixin' up models for it is a no go, using a certain utility we're not allowed to mention here due to reason X or Y on the other hand does it pretty well

#

Since it seems to convert motions to appropriately follow that of a normal humanoid in unity, allowing for relatively simple and accurate ports of VMD's for unity

pine harbor
#

wait till you try converting a quadruped motion to work with a humanoid set-up, it's beyond mind boggling

opal aurora
#

Dear lord

pine harbor
#

as for why anyone would want to do that: preserving the original motion for a quadruped model while also having head tracking and the ability to emote without getting locked into a loop

opal aurora
#

I tried to get a rig to function on a quadruped before, it's hell

white spruce
pine harbor
#

hmm, "Body_MeshPart1" -- was your tri count over 65,000 in blender?

#

if it's beyond a certain number in the 64,000 range, the mesh gets split into two in Unity upon import -- that destroys any visemes that were on it

white spruce
#

ah gotcha

#

Now i can move onto plan B

pine harbor
#

@opal aurora i've tried hybrid rigs involving a dummy humanoid skeleton with the original quadruped skeleton attached, but that usually results in some weird sliding on the avatar whenever i look around; the quadruped also can't animate properly outside of emotes because a humanoid rig only animates the humanoid bones outside of emotes

#

currently trying out an idea which involves reparenting/re-rigging the quadruped so that its bone hierarchy is exactly like a humanoid, but the head-scratcher there is trying to preserve any pre-existing animations on it when you mess around with the parenting like that

opal aurora
#

Unity 2017.4.15f1 no longer has the 64k limitations, the mesh should no longer split unless it gets to absurd amounts

pine harbor
#

ah, does that no longer happen on 2017? i thought it was just VRChat that raised the maximum poly limit on avatars to 70k

opal aurora
#

Nah, the meshes no longer split at that point thankfully

pine harbor
#

though yeah, if the mesh is still splitting, that's probably not good news

opal aurora
#

The issue with 64k seems to have been caused due to meshes being imported with a 16bit index buffer limit, unity 2017+ supports a 32bit index buffer, exponentially increasing the limit

gritty nest
#

VRC had a 20k poly limit and Unity split meshes at 65534 verts or tris.

ivory radish
#

ye now both larger

foggy night
#

Anyone got the Dynamic bones stuff?

crisp tendon
#

You can buy it on the asset store

ivory radish
#

.-.

granite beacon
#

@opal aurora That a dildo?

opal aurora
#

No, it's a statue

granite beacon
#

Looked like a dildo

opal aurora
#

Shrugs

velvet fractal
#

Does the bone position matter when rigging?

gritty nest
#

The bone's "head" matters a lot, yes. The bone's tail not really

#

The head of the bone is the pivot point for all the weighted vertices

ivory radish
#

bone tails are sometimes "reset" if they are not part of chain

#

but usually they might stay

velvet fractal
#

Uh...

#

vrchat seems to ignore the shoulder weight

ivory radish
#

no

#

weight issues should be ocurring on all versions of the model

velvet fractal
#

Well everything is fine but the shoulders

ivory radish
#

did u set them in the config

#

and do they work in unity and blender

velvet fractal
#

yup

ivory radish
#

u sure

velvet fractal
#

ye

#

lemme test another try

#

fuq

ivory radish
#

oof

flat musk
ivory radish
#

make the character, animate it, or do the ear thing

flat musk
#

I mean to make it interact with hands. I see one of mitch murder's models has it done but i have no idea how that is made.\

ivory radish
#

o just use dynamic bone colliders

#

u cant make it interact with other peoples hands without a lot of side effects atm

flat musk
#

high stiffness on dynamic bone... and add collider. Sounds like a plan.

ivory radish
#

typically u want like .4-.6 stiffness on ears so that it still wobbles

#

and u need 2 make the colliders really well

#

i.e. putting the end bone for the ear closer to the middle instead of the tip

flat musk
#

no idea how to work with colliders yet. Its on my to-learn list.

ivory radish
#

because u cant forget that colliders are spheres

#

if u put it at the tip of the ear it would be less accurate

#

than if u moved the end bone to the center

flat musk
#

noted.

ivory radish
#

cuz see for example

#

theres a lot of empty space that ur hand could pass thru

#

i should have made the top one for 2nd img bigger

#

but u get the idea

foggy night
#

owo a while @granite beacon appears

#

every now and then

#

lol

ivory radish
#

y is this in avatar rigging

foggy night
#

I Completly forgot how to rig lol

ivory radish
foggy night
#

I reset my PC and lost most of my projects

ivory radish
#

omfg go 2 another channel

foggy night
#

Im litterally talking about rigging >,>

ivory radish
#

resetting pc is not rigging and neither is random 'hey i know u let me talk about my server'

#

ok fine ur gona be escorted

foggy night
#

Ima see if I can remember what I did before

#

ill be back later

#

How many polygons?

#

10k?

#

for a avatar

ivory radish
foggy night
#

lmao

#

hmm

#

Where do I get the VR Chat SDK again

#

thx

worthy kraken
#

@granite beacon Look.. you may wanna read the #rules first. The guys here are strict about using English only in non-language channels

ivory radish
#

also posting random stuff in the wrong channel

worthy kraken
flat musk
#

@ivory radish Thanks! -saved pics for ref-

tawdry bane
ivory radish
tawdry bane
#

I deleted the duplicated message

#

@ivory radish I can't find anything on google about that. That video is the only thing I found

ivory radish
#

r u sure

tawdry bane
#

Do you know of any specific keywords I should use on my search?

#

all I find is rigging the thing on the fingers expressions

#

and not on the emotes

ivory radish
tawdry bane
#

haha. now that I watched " VrChat Unity Add Audio To An Existing Emote" after some experimenting yesterday makes sense. When I watched the first time I thought it was for the fingers thingy

#

anyway, thanks

tawdry bane
#

@ivory radish Me again, thehehe.. By any chance do you know why the audio only plays when I spawn of when the animation finishes?

ivory radish
#

well yea

#

ur most likely just going

#

'make this audio inactive when the animation plays!'

tawdry bane
#

But it doesn't. The audio ONLY plays when ANY animation finishes

ivory radish
#

ok then did u make sure that A:

#

the range for the audio is reasonably large

#

B:
the audio is disabled by default

#

C:
the animation enabled the audio
also this is more #animation

solid socket
#

Okay I wanted to make it so that the tentacles follow my arm and hand movement, I used RigidBodies on my wrist and a fixed joint on my tentacles endbone (the tentacle is split into 3 bones that were supposed to follow arm->lower arm -> wrist)
https://i.imgur.com/qxX9Q9I.png
How do I make it so it doesn't deform?

Imgur
gritty nest
#

Set the pivot point to Pivot and not Center in the top left @solid socket

#

This should be purely an editor-only thing

ivory radish
#

also turn off position for both

#

should only copy rotation

gritty nest
#

Yep

solid socket
ivory radish
#

might happen if they have dynamic bones

solid socket
#

They don't

ivory radish
#

unsure

gritty nest
#

When you move stuff in play mode, as soon as you exit play mode it goes back to original

solid socket
#

Nono I mean in playmode

#

I rotate it and the moment I let go it slowly moves back to the default position

ivory radish
#

is gravity off

gritty nest
#

Actually, I think I may see it

#

The rigidbodies on your real hands have to have positions and rotations frozen.

ivory radish
#

or make them kinematic

gritty nest
#

The rigidbodies on the extra appendages need only positions frozen

solid socket
#

That did the trick
Thanks guys

fading verge
#

can one of ya'll help me cuz im lazy to look up some shit

opal river
#

so, do I remember correctly that the Cats plugin creates all the visemes automatically by just feeding it like 3 base visemes?

sharp dagger
#

does anyone with a headset wanna help me test an avatar i just made

#

i wanna see how the rig holds up when someone's moving around

rancid oracle
#

So I took the armature from another avatar and put it onto him because of the armor pieces. I weight painted everything and that stuff works. But it looks like the bones are too long or something in full body since he is floating above the ground, I can barely bend his legs and the arms go straight down. How would I make the bones smaller without effecting the mesh and weight painting?

#

If thats even possible. It just feels weird using him since no bones seem to fit properly. Viewpoint is off too

tight bear
#

lol

wicked quiver
#

why have new viseme

#

kk ss nn rr

rocky scaffold
#

T pose enforced in unity?

#

@rancid oracle

charred sorrel
#

so i have nooooo clue what's happening because everything is fine in unity and blender and nothing is broken

wind osprey
#

Maybe there's extra twist bones that aren't parented properly?

ivory radish
#

ooooof

#

yea ur bones are severely screwed up

#

definitely either parenting issue ^, vertex group issue (swapped), or blend shape

sleek isle
#

dam he s thicc

cerulean matrix
#

Also does anyone know what determines your characters foot collision? Is it the mesh/rig or just a generated capsule? I ask because I put the foot bones higher than the base of the model since the character is wearing roller skates

sleek isle
#

maybe put the end bone of the foot in the ground

cerulean matrix
sleek isle
#

if your character still have the feet in the ground move the hip up in the humanoid rig tab

main vine
#

can i commission someone to rig up a model i have?

crisp tendon
#

You should try mixamo first

main vine
#

would someone mind helping me with putting textures on a model?

gritty nest
#

Seems like shaders are missing

#

This also doesn't seem to be a rigging question

upbeat seal
#

Have a model that appears to its bones set right in Blender, then I take it to Unity and 2 of the thumb bones are gone, and the shoulders aren't linked hehe. Just been dipping my toes into this, but it's a lot of information all at once 😄

solemn talon
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https://imgur.com/a/IMJE88N what could cause this to happen to my model's hands on import? (this is with a humanoid rig applied straight from blender's FBX file)

Imgur
ivory radish
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bone parenting issues?

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does that happen only in unity

solemn talon
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only in unity. things look fine in blender (and pose mode works too)

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no roll on any of the hand or finger bones...

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seems to happen with generic rig as well though

ivory radish
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do u have any blend shapes or multiple finger bones

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and have u tried rotating other bones also

solemn talon
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hold on a sec while I make sure there are no blend shapes affecting those bones

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(I just got done fixing an issue where I destroyed all my facial blend shapes by editing the mesh...)

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okay, deleted all blend shapes from the mesh in question, no change. No duplicate finger bones.

upbeat seal
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Mine feels kinda similar to what's happening on yours. On Blender (left), everything shows up and seems to be in the right order .... and then going into Unity, the last 2 thumb bones disappear
https://imgur.com/a/hBHcJM3

Imgur
solemn talon
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in rig configuration, I can pose non-finger bones without an issue

upbeat seal
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and the angle goes wonky on the one that's left

solemn talon
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but yeah it looks kinda like unity decided the last finger bone should have zero length?

ivory radish
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the thumb bones didnt disappear

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theyre just invisible

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and end bones are supposed to have 0 length

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the rigging thing draws bones from their start to their children

upbeat seal
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@ivory radish hm, you're right, I see them in the hierarchy in unity ... but they're unmapped in the inspector and if I re-map them they show up at an angle that's incorrect, and attempting to adjust it then severely distorts the thumb itself 😅

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Could it be as easy as just dragging them from hierarchy onto the mapping deal? They're still invisible in the scene diagram, but hrm.

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It's confusing because the other hand looks all there right from the start

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Hrm, nope. adding them that way did the same thing, put them in at some default angle that thumb 0 is currently pointing at and distorted it

ivory radish
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did u try resetting pose after doing that or exitting and entering the mapper again

upbeat seal
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whoa

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It's like it just forgets how those bones were supposed to go

solemn talon
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I gave up and reverted to an older version that wasn't broken. I'll investigate how they differ later I guess

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next question: There's this one skirt bone that keeps rotating whenever I select the avatar root object. I can revert it to prefab, but it'll go and twist itself again as soon as I click on that root object in the hierarchy

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so, uh, wtf?

ivory radish
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thats bc of dynamic bones

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copy component

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delete component

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revert to prefab

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past component

solemn talon
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ah

gritty nest
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Just disable the component

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No need to remove it

opal aurora
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Dynamic bones keep the bones' current loc/rot/scale fixed unless they are removed or disabled, after they're re-added or re-enabled they'll assume the new rot/loc/scale as their base

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So animations or posing should be done either prior to adding dynamic bones or db's should be disabled as you do such

opal river
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so, did I understand this correctly that Dynamic Bones aren't "vanilla" Unity and you have to buy it?

ivory radish
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yea

opal river
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oof

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okay

ivory radish
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its $20

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getting it from anywhere other than the unity asset store is considered piracy

opal river
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I didn't even consider that

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just saying that something like that not being built-in in Unity is... weird to me. Then again I don't even know what exactly it does

ivory radish
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well it does what it says it does

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lets u create 'dynamic bones'

opal river
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well, was it at first only meant for actually doing bones? cause from what I gathered for VRC at least it's more used for stuff like skirts or hair

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or anything that passively moves with your avatar

ivory radish
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no...???

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'dynamic bones' not bones

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if u even saw the description of the asset or saw literally any tutorials on using it or the little trailer thingy for the asset

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u would see what it is about

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Dynamic Bone applies physics to character's bones or joints. With simple setup, your character's hair, cloth, breasts or any part will move realistically.

opal river
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With simple setup, your character's hair, cloth, breasts or any part will move realistically.

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exactly what I said

ivory radish
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meant for actually doing bones?

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bones are not the same as dynamic bones

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dynamic bones takes bones and makes them dynamic

opal river
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then it's a weird name

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okay

ivory radish
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its not a weird name

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its literally what it says it is

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xd

opal river
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then you're just confusing

ivory radish
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no

opal river
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well

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when I think of a "bone"

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I don't think of something that makes the skirt move

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when you think of bones in the space of 3d modeling I guess it makes sense

ivory radish
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i dont see y u wouldnt

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again it takes bones and makes them dynamic, hence the name: dynamic bones

opal river
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YES

ivory radish
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literally if u have a long tail it probably has like 4+ bones in it

opal river
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but the thing in a skirt a normal person wouldn't think of calling a "bone"

ivory radish
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without dynamic bones its just gonna be stiff like a plank

opal river
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language my dude

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it's not that simple

ivory radish
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it really is

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if u look at how mmd skirts are typically rigged

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u will see like 20 bones

opal river
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oof

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you're missing the point

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it's fine

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I understand it now

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thanks for elaborating

ivory radish
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of course this is typically the worst way to do dynamic skirt bones

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at least for vrchat

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in mmd its fine but u want 2 lower the bone count and make optimized skirts

opal river
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that was my point

ivory radish
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then u have no idea what bones are and u should probably try understanding what rigging is or at least what rigging does

opal river
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yeah

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I never said I do

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hence my stupid questions

ivory radish
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the parts were originally called 'bones' because they were first only used to rig characters

opal river
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okay, that was exactly what I was getting at

ivory radish
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and so u could have these 'bones' to rotate the characters model at joints

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but later these bones became much more useful

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people figured out u could use them for a lot more

opal river
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see it makes much more sense if you explain it like that 😄

ivory radish
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well again its not really my job to guess how learned people actually are

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especially since u never said 'i dont know anything about rigging'

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so i just assumed u knew at least what a 'bone' referred to

opal river
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yea

opal aurora
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A bone in 3d modeling language is a "pivot" of sorts that defines how a mesh moves, bends or contorts, a mesh being the 3d model itself or more specifically a mesh is a part of an entire model, which can be combined into a single mesh aswell (i know it sounds a tad confusing but essentially meshes can be separate in terms of a single entire model, you can have multiple separated meshes in 1 model or a single one that encompasses the entire thing)
Hopefully that's relatively understandable to start out in terms of "defining" a bone
@opal river

opal river
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yeah, thanks

opal aurora
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And dynamic bones essentially make said "pivots" move freely, based on certain constraints you define for them, hence being dynamic

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Albeit, they're mostly affected by the movements of the player rather than "natural" forces (i.e. wind or the world itself)

ivory radish
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i mean u can always kinda simulate that with an animator

opal aurora
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Yep, animating them is a plausible solution aswell

ivory radish
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looking for a gif that i cant find reeeeeee 1 second

opal river
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neat

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how "bad" is stuff like that in terms of avatar rating?

ivory radish
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not really at all

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i didnt have that many dynamic bones, collision checks, and i only used 1 animator with 4 layers

opal river
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ok

ivory radish
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the facial expression was just a blend shape test

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actually 5 layers

opal aurora
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Having an absolute mess of total dynamic bones (not components) can net you a relatively bad rating, and each collider present (if any) will multiply the total bone count by 2x

ivory radish
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breathing twitchL twitchR wagging wind

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but still 1 animator

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well no not the bone count

opal aurora
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If you use it for just a few things that would normally make sense to be dynamic, your rating will most likely be quite decent, however dynamic bones are seen like the hellspawn of lag itself, so y'know

ivory radish
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for each script, the amount of transforms * the amount of colliders set adds to the collision check count

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so if u have a hair db script thats 10 transforms

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and u have colliders for each hand

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thats 20 collision checks

gritty nest
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In terms of performance, dynamic bone transforms are +1 for every collider they respond to

ivory radish
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ye

opal aurora
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So that'd be 30 checks wouldn't it? .-.

gritty nest
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If it takes n to calculate a dynamic bone transform, it takes n for every collider too

ivory radish
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no it would be 20

gritty nest
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So that's n+colliders

ivory radish
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u have 2 hand colliders

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10 transforms

gritty nest
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Or rather, total it's n*colliders

ivory radish
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every bone used in the chain needs 2 checks

gritty nest
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Well actually it's uh worse

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It's complicated

opal aurora
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Huh, could've sworn that 1 collider would make the 10 bone checks be 20

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Not 2 colliders

gritty nest
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n*(colliders + 1)

ivory radish
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but what if u have 0 colliders

opal aurora
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10 bone checks

gritty nest
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Still 10

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10*(1)

ivory radish
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yes but will that be collision checks

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or dynamic bone cost in total

gritty nest
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That's just a theoretical performance impact

opal aurora
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It'd just be transforms

gritty nest
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Cost total

ivory radish
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ok then yea wat i said yes

gritty nest
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Which is how they should have done it IMO

ivory radish
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but only for collision checks

gritty nest
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Then you can use a tiny number of collisions without dipping into Poor immediately

ivory radish
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well it also depends on the calculations being done

opal aurora
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I dunno man, i just recall hearing that every collider adds another transform per transform

ivory radish
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cuz if one calculation takes more time in a benchmark

opal aurora
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So essentially NºTransforms*2 per Collider

ivory radish
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well i dont really see why it would add a transform

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cuz the transform is just the transform of each bone that is being manipulated by dynamic bones