vrchat-general-2

[dire thicket]

No ones every cared about the poly limit

[odd blaze]

majority were yes

[pure hemlock]

20k was too restrictive and most people said yeet to the sdk limits

[gleaming kraken]

that was with modified sdks.. which was against it

[dire thicket]

The only thing, since they removed the poly limit people stopped using modified sdks

[gleaming kraken]

well tbh screw those people...

[odd blaze]

poly really dont impact you much, its when you go crazy on materials and meshes

[pure hemlock]

Skinned meshes and materials matter far more than polies

[gleaming kraken]

more polys likely means more materials applied to them.. so its still gotten worse

[pure hemlock]

Merge your meshes and atlas and gg you're avatar is better than 99% of the public ones

[odd blaze]

poly dont equal more materials just easier to make without restrictions

[gleaming kraken]

im happy to actually be one of the few excellent avatars in an instance

[dire thicket]

Even after they removed the poly limit, the only thing i ever heard was people usiong custom ecryption on avatars to protect against being ripped for their sdks and that's about it

[gleaming kraken]

im still eager for the update where they finally remove very poor quest avatars so people will care there too... since it matters even more there..

i talked with tupper once and he was for the idea

[pure hemlock]

I don't care about peoples avatar rank that much since generally my source of lag is the world itself unless it's like a 30+ friends+ world

and i dont like large crowds so...

[gleaming kraken]

on quest a 100k tri avatar is seriously bad for it.

[odd blaze]

Im usually in pretty big worlds 40-70 people

[gleaming kraken]

i usually stick to a dozen since 30+ is unplayable for me

[pure hemlock]

I join on friends in worlds like that sometimes. Usually with the devs or some streamer. I just can't.

Hearing 5 discussions at once is too much for my brain

[odd blaze]

it gets abit too loud tho 🐇

[gleaming kraken]

yeah i used to join those but its just unplayable

[dire thicket]

yang

[twin fractal]

i like big parties but my pc doesnt

[vocal shard]

Yeah, on top of the jittery frames and constant lockups from someone switching avatars or something, the noise levels is a bit overwhelming, but to each their own.

[pure hemlock]

i usually leave immedietly when I realize its one of those worlds lol

[lyric sphinx]

things i currently dont like about vr chat: the community, the rank system, and how you cant just completely make someone disappear when you block them or their avatar

[gleaming kraken]

im a shy boi so i dont like crowds to begin with

[twin fractal]

was in a world with 78 people last night. it was POG

[dire thicket]

Haven't you been complaininh all night or rather the last few hours about no one to join @pure hemlock

[pure hemlock]

Yah that's another thing. People crowding in worlds that big 😠

Why must people crowd up in such large groups

Thanks for reminding me Dark

[dire thicket]

So basically you're trolling, good to know

[pure hemlock]

Another issue of joining on people. Giant crowds with streamers and/or devs.

I think you're the one trolling with your odd obsession with me lol

[dire thicket]

No, if just been paying attention to the conversation

I have issues with alot of things, gropping, oversexualisation and similar subjects are a big issue in vrc as it stands which I pay quite a attention too.

[pure hemlock]

So how am I troll?

Because you don't share my problems?

[dire thicket]

However dont be arguing one point while rectifying another.

[twin fractal]

?

[pure hemlock]

Okay since you're forcing me to explain this to you like a toddler. Those big crowded worlds. Are also are like 3am in the morning. And I don't do well with crowds.

That doesn't make me a troll

[brave compass]

Bth the only places that I can still find experiences like in the early days are in places like the Hub. Mostly with new players since they weren't exposed to any of this yet.

[gleaming kraken]

man i miss the 2018 hub.. the world backup for it has been broken for awhile now

[dire thicket]

The point in reference yang is you saying you dont have people to join when you quite evidently do but refuse too

[brave compass]

Dude! Right?

[gleaming kraken]

wish one of them would update it..

[pure hemlock]

You're just arguing over semantics Dark

[brave compass]

Man when they changed it I was bummed

[pure hemlock]

🙄

[gleaming kraken]

i made a meme for it awhile ago

[brave compass]

o ya?

[gleaming kraken]

hold on

[dire thicket]

It plays into one some people have said, you place too high of standards to people who should be your friend or rather you want to be friends with

[pure hemlock]

Now I know you're the one trolling

[brave compass]

Guys are you arguing over Dark not being able to join a world?

[pure hemlock]

No he is calling me a troll because I don't want to join on friends who are in over-crowded worlds

[dire thicket]

I'm sitting here drinking, trolling? If that's that was me the I'd be laughing right iw

[pure hemlock]

And arguing over semantics lol

[twin fractal]

No, DarkOne is arguing over Yang saying she doesn't people to join when people to join exist

[brave compass]

Guys lol this argument is pointless

[pure hemlock]

It is but Dark has a weird obsession with me

[dire thicket]

Relatively you were saying infact you are forced in public worlds where you are harassed since you have no one to join

[twin fractal]

Technically everyone has people to join, so it really is semantics

[brave compass]

How does Dark have an obsession?

[pure hemlock]

Okay I will go into the over-crowded worlds and have a panic attack instead, thanks for the advice Dark lol

[dire thicket]

Alright Yang. You go into a public world, it's be over-crowded, you got into any of your friend worlds, it'll be over-crowded.

[twin fractal]

they're making a much bigger deal than it needs to be

[pure hemlock]

^

[dire thicket]

Whata re you complaining about?

[brave compass]

Yea......

[dire thicket]

I'm really rectifying some points they were talking about themselves earlier.

[golden scaffold]

Let's keep things civil.

[vocal shard]

Totes get you on that, have slight agoraphobia and after a while with big crowds even in VRC I get immensly stressed out.

[pure hemlock]

Mhm for me it's high functioning autism. Generally well managed but still easy to get overwhelmed from my senses. I have to turn off audio in those worlds to survive.

Which makes it hard to socialize

[vocal shard]

tonight gonna be another lovely night to drink, laugh and play some crappy games

[lofty yacht]

hey someone wanna play vrchat?

horror map

i am searching for people because im a lonely old lady with 10 kittens and my husband had diet last month so

[brave compass]

I would join you but Ive got work in like 15 minutes

[twin fractal]

hope he gets off that diet soon

[dire thicket]

Alright, ita 4am. I'm go to bed and yang, stop overexergating your own situation for symphony (this is about what you've spoken about for the last few hours).

[pure hemlock]

Diet?

[lofty yacht]

yup

[pure hemlock]

Okay Dark good night dream about me

[lofty yacht]

thats my story on wattpad

[dire thicket]

No I dont want to have any nightmares

[lofty yacht]

btw im 13 so i can be a little annoying u think

[pure hemlock]

Lol damn sick burn Dark

[lofty yacht]

but no

i am 30 in my head

[pure hemlock]

Okay what

[twin fractal]

sick burn

[lofty yacht]

oop-

[dire thicket]

I'll burn you, I'll burn you like a witch on the stack for blasmany

[gleaming kraken]

blasmany xD

[vocal shard]

symphony

[pure hemlock]

You're 13 but 30 in your head? And you have a husband and 10 cats? What kind of roleplay are you doing

[brave compass]

Sounds sweet

[twin fractal]

kids these days

[gleaming kraken]

i think hes trying to describe "mental maturity"

[pure hemlock]

That's like.. the worst roleplay ever lol.

Yah I roleplay as an old boring woman with tons of cats

[lofty yacht]

no it was just a joke with the husbands and cats but

[twin fractal]

you could be anything but you become a 30 yo woman with cats lol

[brave compass]

sounds solid

[pure hemlock]

😐

This is raising some red flags

[vocal shard]

[pure hemlock]

I think its time to... go do.. anything else

[twin fractal]

cursed sentence. pls delete

[sharp saddle]

They're a country.

[brave compass]

texas

[twin fractal]

yes my favorite continent

[pure hemlock]

can i be canada

[brave compass]

yes

[vocal shard]

i love canada

[sharp saddle]

Canadaball.

[twin fractal]

no because im canada already

[brave compass]

wait what you can do that??

[twin fractal]

dude posted an ended game

[brave compass]

my eyes have been opened"

[vocal shard]

So, Canada Bros: Is that bagged milk meme real?

[pure hemlock]

It exists. Where I live though, most people just buy cartons

[vocal shard]

Hardcore x)

[twin fractal]

always bags for me

[paper cape]

Hi all new to VRchat one question where is the best place to get avatar skins?

[twin fractal]

avatar worlds

[timid cipher]

[glossy nimbus]

I don't think there is one 'best place'.

Because like, RumHam exists, but so does blondies.

[gleaming kraken]

go to spiritedspys avatar vault

its got some pretty good ones xD

[faint skiff]

Anyone else had issues with the USharp Udon video players throwing a "Rate Limited" error on world load?

[gleaming kraken]

^

[paper cape]

im actually unsure what im after as right now im running around as a tiny wolf lol

[glossy nimbus]

Theres an 'avatar' section on your worlds menu. Id just start hopping around instances in there. It can be a lot of fun.

[paper cape]

will do il explore and hopefully find one i like thank you all

[glossy nimbus]

❤️ ❤️

[mellow mango]

So the new nameplates, how much more efficient are they?

[glossy nimbus]

I mean they are smaller and hide rank from a glance.

[sharp saddle]

They're not RGB anymore?

[mellow mango]

All of these things are true

[sharp saddle]

0% opacity best opacity.

Makes the talking effect cooler too.

[glossy nimbus]

ahh yes the opacity thing lol.

[mellow mango]

I agree

[faint skiff]

Wasn't the main issue before that every letter was it's own material so they were terrible for performance.

[gleaming kraken]

that... was a thing..?

[twin fractal]

seriously wtf were they thinking

[mellow mango]

I heard this rumor, I would be shocked if that was actually true

[gleaming kraken]

jesus...

[faint skiff]

So each letter and the border were also their own drawcall, lol. Turning off nameplates would definitely give a decent performance boost in populated worlds before, so there has to be some truth to it.

[mellow mango]

Saying this, I was on a dance floor with about 70 people last night and I was handling 25+ frames

[twin fractal]

hiding nameplates did give me 5-10 more fps

[rapid karma]

hey its shanie hiya bud

[twin fractal]

but if thats the reason why thats pretty pog lol

[vocal shard]

Yeah I always wondered why turning nameplates off increased the fluidity esp in VR for me xD

[rapid karma]

fancy seeing you

[mellow mango]

👋 oy oy

I'll have to track a dev down to spill some beans on the nameplate tech, find out the truth 📰

[rapid karma]

so what we talkin bout,
also on a side note if anyone has a 2d world map obj i would be emencfully greatful!

damn i killed the chat :C

[supple glacier]

so anyone know some good avatar worlds?

[sharp saddle]

Largely depends on what you're looking for.

[mellow mango]

lol I don't think so 😛

[faint skiff]

I'm still so sad that Filn removed his world and all the avatars, those were some of the best in VRC and had been a staple of good content for so long.

[sharp saddle]

Did he? Man!

[twin fractal]

yep

[faint skiff]

Yeah a few months back.

[pure hemlock]

Why?

[sharp saddle]

No wonder I never see those avatars anymore.

[faint skiff]

Apparently he was getting upset with the avatar theft/ripping and just threw in the towel completely.

[vocal shard]

Probably because people like subcom kept taking them and selling them

[pure hemlock]

Ah... Yah ... He's not the first then..

It's sad how much of a problem this is

[vocal shard]

@faint skiff Yeah, thats understandable. Still, sad tho, really loved the stuff Filn made.

[faint skiff]

A few of my friends are being targeted by some Russian children at the moment who are ripping their avatars and then reuploading them as public. Seems it's a big issue again now.

[twin fractal]

never used them but they were nice

[pure hemlock]

People suck

[twin fractal]

I'm canada and i dont suck anyone

[vocal shard]

Kinda why I have my name plastered fat on the back of my main avatar that I uploaded myself. Well, someone can still rip it, but unless they edit the texture they run around with my name.

[sharp saddle]

[twin fractal]

build selfcrashers into your avatars

problem solved

[vocal shard]

delightfully devilish

[faint skiff]

@vocal shard If they're ripping then they'll just edit the texture. Your method kinda just prevents them somehow using privated avatars.

[twin fractal]

build a crasher in and make it so you basically have to do a naruto justu with hand gestures to turn it off so if anyone but you uses it theyll crash lol

[faint skiff]

I mean, if they're ripping it then they'll likely just be ripping the models and textures and reuploading it cleanly, none of that would carry over

[brittle cairn]

Is that not against TOS?

[twin fractal]

true im just fucking around. they'd only rip the assets

[brittle cairn]

I'm pretty sure there's a way to private access to your world and private your avatar isn't there?

[uncut totem]

i think i will get plus today

steam is stinky

[faint skiff]

@brittle cairn Yes, what we're talking about is people completely ripping your avatar from the game, regardless of it's privacy settings.

[gleaming kraken]

oh they can rip private stuff now? wondeful

[uncut totem]

thats been a thing for a while

[vocal shard]

I wouldn't personally mind if someone rips my avatar, I'd be kinda impressed if they go the extra mile to repaint the texture to remove the "watermark" x)

[brittle cairn]

I know what networking backend vrc uses. But I'm not sure backend they use for avatars. I don't quite see how they'd do that?

[gleaming kraken]

most of the stuff i have would be a waste to rip really, simple game models that are already public and stuff.

my main model and some requests would actually suck if they got ripped

[vocal shard]

Staff checks the #feature-requests channel right? Cause it would be really cool to be able to improve game performance by shrinking avatar sounds to the size of each room.

[umbral reef]

They dont but they do check the canny.io http://feedback.vrchat.com/

[faint skiff]

@brittle cairn They seem to have to be in the same world as the person they're ripping, so I assume it unpacks the local temp data somehow.

(hence why we've all blocked the two people known to be doing it atm)

[gleaming kraken]

not sure if thats really possible. how would the game know what a "room" is

[brittle cairn]

Oh it downloads them to LocalLow/VRChat

Yeah I see the problem now

[vocal shard]

by a sphere I guess.

[twin fractal]

When you enter a world your client downloads everything thats in there

[brittle cairn]

Pretty sure it's just Photon

[vocal shard]

The canny server is down, darn.

[gleaming kraken]

thats already done on the audio source afaik, and vrchat might already lower that down when you upload it

[twin fractal]

you only need to find a way to extract that data

[umbral reef]

The canny isnt down?

[gleaming kraken]

yeah its up for me

[vocal shard]

I guess it was an error.

[faint skiff]

@vocal shard Unity has no concept of what a "room" is, so that wouldn't really work.

Some of the more advanced audio systems use a load of ray-casting to lower volume of sounds if it's occluded by other objects, but very few games use that as it's somewhat computationally expensive.

[gleaming kraken]

even if i did that sphere concept, a room can be as big or small as the world uploader wants so it just wouldnt work

[vocal shard]

What about a sphere that would just limit the size of the 3d sound?

[faint skiff]

Plus how would that sphere differentiate between a "wall" of the room, and any other collider?

@vocal shard That's how the sounds work by default

[gleaming kraken]

yeah thats just what i mentioned a minute ago

vrchat lowers some settings so i can only assume it probably already lowers the distance too.

if it doesnt i would be surprised

[brittle cairn]

It's the network backend that determine what a room is.

It basicly has lobbies and rooms

[gleaming kraken]

???

[faint skiff]

@brittle cairn We're talking about physical rooms, not the meta-concept of a session.

[brittle cairn]

Oh my bad 😅

[vocal shard]

It would be a optimization feature for the mapper so it would be different for every map of course.

The sphere would limit the size of each avatar sound sphere within the area of the sphere to lower the chance of sound leaks between walls without making the map larger.

[faint skiff]

You'll want to play about with Unity and audio systems before you make any more suggestions, you're massively oversimplifying the issue 😉

[brittle cairn]

Your talking about sound dampening right

[loud void]

anyone elses game keeps crashing? and know why?

[vocal shard]

@brittle cairn Yes, lowering the size of avatar sounds within a sphere of a map. I'm just wondering, if Source can do sound physics with rooms, why not unity?

[brittle cairn]

It can kinda

You can draw a raycast between characters and check what's between them

What I do to achieve this is I'd there's a wall aka a collider between you and the character either change their volume based on distance or just disable the audio source

Although if there's alot of characters it's not the most efficient system but should be alright with 20 - 30 people

[merry parrot]

so I'm stuck at 50/128 world favorites, but was 125/128 before plus patch. All the worlds in my favorite bands are still there, it's just a display bug. I am having a hard time finding which band has an open slot when I try to add or remove one

[brittle cairn]

You also might be able to work some magic with the FMOD asset but I haven't personally used it (yet) (but I know it's a stupidly powerful sound system and it's free so fire up unity and play with it)

[wanton matrix]

guys I got User rank and I made a world
it's my first one I've made public and idk if I did it right
can you tell me if you can see this?
https://vrchat.com/home/launch?worldId=wrld_e85ace97-2122-4a76-b4db-9ac65bd9c70a

[brittle cairn]

#shameless-self-promotion

[wanton matrix]

lol I guess it works then

[mental spruce]

Can someone help in #avatars-2-general ?

please >.<

[ruby needle]

Please dont cross promote posts.

Thats essentially the same as double posting.

[stiff plover]

Whenever I try to upload an icon it just says image not found, it seems to apply the icon on the website but it doesn't show up in vrc?

[keen mortar]

Hi guys, im on the map shiba spooky ville, and there is a secret boss on it, but its too hard !!! can someone mp me and help me finished it ? thanks

[paper zodiac]

looking for youtubers that want to make VRchat content

[elfin pewter]

I want emilia tan avatar 😦

[clever comet]

bruh

[dense nest]

can yall tell me if any of u guys have a baby yoda avatar, and if yes, can i add u and i get the avatar please?

[west yarrow]

Hey, I gotta ask, is anyone else having issues favoriting avatars?

[lapis yoke]

i wonder if the social list will get fixed. its worse then before the so called Friend Live sync thingy.

[proper stratus]

There's a star wars world with baby Yoda. Just lookup "death star" and it will have some portals to other star wars worlds. One of them has baby Yoda.

[green creek]

morning

[sharp saddle]

15. No posting the same question or statement across multiple channels

[green creek]

this is the first time i've seen someone get called out for that, but ok

[sharp saddle]

It's happened a lot.

[green creek]

im not arguing with it, but like yesterday I swa at least 4 other people do it and not get called out at all, just sayin. anyway, won't happen again

[merry parrot]

is there a way to make vrchat output mono, or disable 3d audio/sterio from game capture from stream camera in vrchat? world audio captures in one ear or another

[vocal shard]

this connection is getting ridiculous...

[mighty cradle]

@vocal shard rebind your buttons

[sharp saddle]

Connection?

[fervent owl]

can you guys still log on to VRC?

[mighty cradle]

the rampant inability to log in, or do much of anything

[honest forge]

@merry parrot windows audio settings

[mighty cradle]

yeah, so

[merry parrot]

sound volume kinda fades in and out when forced into mono by windows settings as source shifts from ear to ear.

[mighty cradle]

there's a ton of http 500 errors

why do you want mono?

if you're worrying about recording or streaming, obs will capture both channels

[merry parrot]

using stream camera, audio source from world or other players captures by avatar facing, so even if staying mostly in place it will give a strong left or strong right ear output

[mighty cradle]

so say the camera is facing you

is the audio direction relative to it, or you, facing towards it?

so say a source is left of you, would it be on the left or right of the camera?

[merry parrot]

relative to avatar. someone on my right gives a strong right ear channel on volume

[mighty cradle]

so the camera's audio origin location then becomes wrong?

[merry parrot]

and if turning it moves the volume all around. windows forced mono isn't preserving volume so it's going loud and soft

using a non-world placed camera, using hte style fixed to the avatar

[mighty cradle]

okay

but why can't you use stereo sound?

because of how lopsided it is?

[merry parrot]

yes, goal was to have a consistent volume in both left/right channels and not have it shift around

maybe I need to canny a -mono launch option so audio capture is by world position only and not facing, but likely not a priority. was just wondering if there was a current method

[mighty cradle]

hmmm

if on linux, and you can put vrc in its own jack container, this is easy to fix

normal activity seems to happen during softlock, just that i can't do anything at all

[vocal shard]

can you get VRC+ without merging a steam account ?

[umbral reef]

Yes

But if you dont use a VRC account you might have to merge it though

[vocal shard]

what

[sharp saddle]

Long story short, having a VRC account is easier to manage than a Steam account.

[vocal shard]

ok

[rapid karma]

is Spark still around?

[frosty acorn]

i've been having game breaking bugs and i'm not sure if my support tickets have been going through because whenever i press the create ticket button it just unchecks the captcha lmfao

[rapid karma]

not really sure thats a laughing matter

[frosty acorn]

oh i'm just laughing at my own misfortune i've been trying to get this to work since last night

[green creek]

oof

[sage swan]

any1 else having trouble loading? super slow loads

[green creek]

no

mostly cus im not playing, but that really only changes one thing

[frosty acorn]

the load time isn't a problem for me

it's just it won't load at all.

[sage swan]

oh, yeah, that

lol

i wasnt sure if the announcement applied to today but i guess so. couple of my other mates can get on fine so

[quaint hazel]

I need help finding an avatar since Reddit hates me. Where do I go for that?

Or should I just ask it in this channel?

[sharp saddle]

What're you looking for?

[quaint hazel]

So, don't laugh, but I need to find an Iron Giant avatar. But not the one in Avatars Museum. The one I had was gargantuan with chairs in it's palms so that people could ride along and stuff

Sorry I'm really new to this stuff 😅

[sharp saddle]

Try Big Al's.

[quaint hazel]

Okay, I will

Hmm, couldn't seem to find it in Big Al's. Though it's possible I missed it cuz there's a loooot of stuff there. Is there anywhere else I can look?

[ruby dust]

Is anybody else having issues with adding friends at the moment? i've added friends but they don't register as friends and just says "friend request sent" even after they've accepted

[rapid karma]

so y'all i have a question how many of you would link your vrchat accounts with any kind of media sites curious because of my canny vrchat poject im working on

so if everyone would let me know that would be great 🙂

or anyone y'know

[languid beacon]

I usually link accounts when they are reversible. But when they are permanent (like linking Steam or Facebook are right now) I usually don’t

[vocal shard]

as in connecting to vrchats shoddy servers...

[primal anvil]

[flint ore]

uh...

[faint skiff]

<@&397642795457970181> Erm...

[flint ore]

Favoriting is still messing up.

[frosty cosmos]

they just deleted my mans's texts

[odd blaze]

🤔

[hallow tusk]

hey hey,, so like my game is taking forever to load worlds and avatars, and i can load 3 worlds then i cant see anything the 4th time and i keep on crashing.. wat should i do..? also mention me if u wanna help me

[patent tinsel]

Hey all, I'm finally getting in Full Body trackers in today, but the problem is that I had to send back one of my two lighthouses because it was defective... Would Full Body still work with one light house as long as I face it all the time?

[broken plover]

yes

[twin fractal]

yes

[patent tinsel]

Alright, thank you!

[floral root]

anyone want to play and record VRchat?

[arctic elm]

doubt i would tbh, social media kinda stinky

[vagrant vector]

Have the devs acknolwedged the audio stutter that a map host experiences, and do they have a timeline for fixing that bug?

[meager plaza]

@patent tinsel good name

[polar ingot]

hello guys, i am new to VRChat and i am a very very shy person... i just can't open myself up to people and when i get into a conversation with somebody i just can't express myself and i get kind of awkward and many people leave me just after like 1-2 mins. I am just feeling so helpless... maybe somebody here can help me with some recommendations how to get out of this hell loop. (if this is the wrong channel i am sorry i just don't know where to ask ^^)

[arctic elm]

They know about it and are working on it. Fix coming

[arctic elm]

Just keep talking to people, try not to worry about being shy or what people think of you. Eventually you'll find some cool people to hang out with and you can meet more friends through them. The longer you talk to new people the easier it gets

[patent tinsel]

@meager plaza Thanks! You too!

[vagrant vector]

Plaxer, I find it easier to open up to strangers if you play games with them. Go to Among Us maps, Murder, or just board game rooms and try to just play the game and social interactions will come naturally

[polar ingot]

@old kiln what are some good topics to start a conversation? Or how can i start a normal conversation 😅

[meager plaza]

"how are you"

[arctic elm]

You don't always have to start a convo either, you can kinda cruise around and if you hear something interesting, find a pause in the convo and say something about it.
Find stuff you and the other person or group are interested in and just chat about it

[rapid karma]

i have a project coming up on canny and i cant wait to show you guys

but now i must go into hibernation for you see a mystic needs sleep every once and a while

[jagged scaffold]

Anyone know of a world with BNA avatars?

[kindred moon]

having problems to log i to vrc and to join others

kinda sucks

have to restard everytime cuz vrc frezzes, everytime i log in or join someone

[still night]

is there a way to revert to the old look of the nametags?

dont like the new ones

[arctic elm]

No, but go upvote this to make them look better: https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests/p/add-a-custom-color-border-to-nametags
lol

[still night]

will do

[stuck remnant]

is anyone else having issues with favouriting worlds or avatars?

[rocky mesa]

yo why do my icons say no image found

[dark harness]

@rocky mesa so many people are uploading icons that the thumbnail system is failing to keep up

[rocky mesa]

ah i see

[dark harness]

I've added 80 additional thumbnail-thumbnailification servers and I've got a patch in the works rn (should be live in a few hours) to handle that processing better

(yes, 80)

[rocky mesa]

when do you think itll show up

[dark harness]

right now messages are taking as long as 1000s to get to the end of the processing queue

[rocky mesa]

ooo it just appeared

[dark harness]

which is, uh, 16 minutes, worst-case

[pure hemlock]

wow

[rocky mesa]

sub 20 😮

[pure hemlock]

vrc+ popular

[rocky mesa]

i actually like the new look of the nameplates

think if they put a border around eachone to distinguish ranks itd look a little less bland

[pure hemlock]

me too but i want colors. doesnt have to be rank related. but i want colors

[inner cape]

oi system, unrelated question, are you familiar with a kind_of_a_wad user rank in the api by any chance? 👀

[dark harness]

master-build-2020-12-05-finn-wavetransparent just made it through the CI process

I am!

Be honest, can you remember being kind of a wad at some point?

[inner cape]

uuh

every day

[dark harness]

Okay then

[umbral reef]

Can confirm that for ghosto

[dark harness]

I stopped applying sassy tags to users after it became obvious that my chicanery would be discovered almost immediately by anybody willing to experiment with direct API access

[umbral reef]

Also system, you gotta bribe someone in your team to add the in the menu for next month when you press the cat.

[inner cape]

LMAO

So you gave me that rank

[dark harness]

It is almost certain

[umbral reef]

KEKW

[rocky mesa]

wait

is it just him with this rank

[pure hemlock]

ghosto is a wad

[dark harness]

I'm gonna look it up, but based on the astonishing specificity

I'm guessing that this is one of the few singular tags in our whole system

[inner cape]

one and only

[pure hemlock]

I know a few people a year ago or so knew how to apply custom tags

[vocal shard]

Hi, does the VRC+ team look at every icon before approving them? Cause it's been a few hours and my icon doesn't appear in game yet but it works on the website.

[pure hemlock]

Non-devs that is

[dark harness]

@vocal shard I explain it above, but right now our thumbnail generation machines are on fire

[vocal shard]

oh

[inner cape]

do you even remember what i did that made you give it to me, system? xD

[grizzled quiver]

how do i get a avatar with cool emotes?

[dark harness]

I don't! Is it possible that you were saying mean things about the devs on reddit or in Discord? 😛

[pure hemlock]

can you give me a tag that says complains a lot

[inner cape]

maybe on discord

i deserved it tbh

[dark harness]

"devs r lazy" is basically the only thing that makes me mad, because I work a full-time job and also often nights and weekends (like right now) when thumbnails act up, and also spend a lot of my free time watching the community from afar

[umbral reef]

Oh also why can you see your own nameplate when you look up with the menu open 🤔
Is that a bug or intended

[dark harness]

😛 dunno

[arctic elm]

system spies on us confirmed :P

[dark harness]

anything that happens in the client is a total mystery to me

[arctic elm]

pretty sure its a feature

[golden scaffold]

That's intended!

[umbral reef]

Il count it as a feature as its pretty neat

[inner cape]

system is the backdoor kind of guy

[vast tulip]

btw System, how is Aseprite?

[arctic elm]

Spark btw, what's your role at vrc? community stuff or devy stuff?

[pure hemlock]

he likes the back-end

[golden scaffold]

We originally had it where you could look up to see it without needing to open QM but that made the sky not super visible!

[golden scaffold]

I'm on Community with people like Tupper, yeah.

[arctic elm]

Coolio

[golden scaffold]

Anyways, just came by to drop this

[cold talon]

wow, so System thinks ghosto is a wad smh

[inner cape]

[arctic elm]

[umbral reef]

Also Spark, my controler is unhappy with you 👀
I spend around 10 minutes clicking the cat ingame to get information after you told me it was a thing

[west yarrow]

Hey Spark, System, got a question for one of you if you have a moment.

[cold talon]

cant believe it man, i trusted you

[dark harness]

I am an enormous fan of the back-end - I can not lie. You other community members can't deny - that when a MMO walks in with a small footprint but a comprehensive suite of online services, you get actively excited

Wanna show off, 'cause you notice that back-end is stuffed with features.

You're hooked, you can't stop staring (at mirrors)

[pure hemlock]

You're my fav dev member now System

[golden scaffold]

This is why this menu cat is dangerous!

[pure hemlock]

Now stop being a lazy dev and fix everything

[umbral reef]

~~Also why does it bark 👀 ~~

[dark harness]

Oh baby, you want to get with us, and take our picture... with the camera... that only works on PC

[golden scaffold]

[mighty cradle]

it's gotten to the fucking point i literally can't change out of my home world without softlocking

this is impressively infuriating

[vast tulip]

might be cliche but uninstall vrc and reinstall it? clear cache?

[dark harness]

"Impressively infuriating" is our official tagline at the moment

[mighty cradle]

i cleared the cache yestersday

and this is not going to solve any serverside 500 errors i keep getting thrown

[west yarrow]

I've been having some avatar menu weirdness today. I favorited an avatar but it seems to be stuck in a sort of limbo where it's favorited, but my client isn't loading it as favorited (unless I expand the "favorite avatars" category, then it shows up). I already made a ticket about it, but I was curious: does it sound like it might be related to the server issues that's already been reported on?

[dark harness]

Oh, most definitely 😛

[raw pine]

[dark harness]

any time the queue gets backed up any other process that depends on queue-resolution will also start to act stupid

[brave wolf]

@glass ember

[dark harness]

there's just the one queue and it's fulla thumbnails

[west yarrow]

Cool. Also, I slightly lied about how it's being weird. Now it's showing up even without expanding, but the favorite count isn't updated.

oh rip

[dark harness]

It's a particularly stupid bug

[umbral reef]

Aint all bugs particularly stupid tho?

[inner cape]

i still have that clip of you system, which summarizes the development perfectly
cant send here tho

[slate wolf]

Im having a glich were I unfavorited 4 skins (so i have 21) but its still saying i have max so i cant favorite anymore how do i fix this

[arctic elm]

vrcat knocked over a server rack, vrdog (anthro version) is currently fixing it

[dark harness]

that's 100% the fault of a back-end dev who will remain anonymous, who's name rhymes with "glystem"

[west yarrow]

nice

[vocal shard]

It's a bottleneck. I understand. I honestly think VRC+ is a great idea;
Servers, R&D, maintenance and safety teams aren't free. It's worth financially supporting a fun experience like this.

[dark harness]

also: it's a years-old bug with thumbnail creation that was only revealed by our new user icons users! 😛

[west yarrow]

tfw you introduce a bug feature by accident

[dark harness]

when you request a thumbnail that doesn't exist, it queues a new request for that thumbnail, even if there's already a queued request for that thumbnail , which means that slow thumbnail generation just begets even more slow thumbnail generation

[west yarrow]

Anyways, hopefully that can get fixed

[dark harness]

queue filling up with requests to generate thumbnails that it's already generated, and once the queue fills up it just gets WORSE because more thumbnails aren't generated because the queue's full

[cold talon]

sounds like a fun time

[dark harness]

lights gently on fire

the new patch is like, 3 lines of code

[vocal shard]

[upper drum]

Just blame QA for missing it.

[dark harness]

"if there's already a thumbnail, don't generate a new thumbnail"

[cold talon]

i blame Tupper

[dark harness]

seemingly simple, but surprisingly important o_o

[mighty cradle]

the dumbest bugs are usually the easiest fixes

and also tend to remain just

[umbral reef]

Wait system, are the world icons also in the same queue as the other icons?

[mighty cradle]

not visible for a long while

[dark harness]

There is only the one queue

Registration emails are ALSO waiting 15 minutes while this hapn'

[umbral reef]

Well that explains the problems i had earlier today then

[west yarrow]

Wait, but, question

How does this relate to my avatar list not updating?

The thumbnail's long since been generated

Oh wait. It's not a thumbnail request, it's a avatar list update, but it probably gets shoved in the same queue too, huh?

[oblique sand]

Quick question (I literally just joined) does anyone know what world the screaming link avatar is in and if yes is it pc exclusive

[dark harness]

A lot of stuff happens on the queue. It's part of what keeps response time in our system relatively low - you do something that would take a long time? It goes on the queue - but then if the queue starts to slow down it enables VRCHAT CHAOS MODE and I get paged

because everybody's suddenly like "nothing is WOOORKING" and I'm just like "it's working, just... 15 minutes behind"

[vocal shard]

blep

[umbral reef]

It just went back to dailup mode, worked perfectly fine back in the day so i also dont see a problem.

[west yarrow]

I wonder if my favorite avatar count is still in the queue then. Like I said, the avatar seems to show up in the list normally now, but my number of favorite avatars hasn't updated.

[idle harbor]

...

[dark harness]

Quite possibly! When things go into chaos mode like this I almost always blame everything on the queue until the problems are resolved

Like, a lot of cache clears are queued

[vocal shard]

Maybe a smaller size limit for thumbnails would help? 2048x2048 seems really big. Shouldn't people resize their icons before uploading to the website to make it easier?

[dark harness]

so you'll see old versions of things because the thing that cleans out the cache when you change it got queued

Maybe! I wanted to support, like, pretty much anything our users could throw at the thumbnail system, out of PRIDE

[grizzled quiver]

hi dont want to be a pain but everytime i luanch vrc it jsut goes into a space screen is their a way to get out of it

[dark harness]

give me HDR photography of your moon visit whydoncha

[west yarrow]

HDR panorama :^)

[umbral reef]

Best to start looking at the support page #vrchat-support
Check the links in there

[grizzled quiver]

thanks

[vocal shard]

I just had an idea for the icon camera for VRC+: a flip horizontally button so that the image is not mirrored.

[cold talon]

uhh System, so you said that you added some tags to certain people in the api right?

[dark harness]

What? I said no such thing. I refuse all accountability. Database gnomes.

[cold talon]

may one, just hypothetically, go around checking all the hidden elusive tags and collect them?

[vast tulip]

I'm sad I missed that one tag for joining that world link in the medium post!

[cold talon]

currently got 1, 99 more to go

[dark harness]

tbh, I think that there's only 2 that are worth noting -

system_kind_of_a_wad, which exists (i checked) exactly once

[cold talon]

what the, that rare, hooly

[inner cape]

hoooly

[vocal shard]

[cold talon]

you have to step your game up man

[vocal shard]

What's this? I hear system is giving out free custom tags?

[cold talon]

i expect at least 50 by next week

[dark harness]

and admin_eternally_cursed, which I applied to anybody who joined me in the room that I linked, for the first half-an-hour, when I announced Instance Short-Links

[vocal shard]

[inner cape]

lmao

[frigid canopy]

Hey gamers

[vast tulip]

that's the one I was referring to yeah!

[dark harness]

We picked a real weird world to link to, and I didn't say I was going to be in there

it was just "the example instance"

[cold talon]

wow, first calling them a wad and now cursing people now

[dark harness]

but me, and like three other devs just waited in that creepy room, completely motionless, and watched as people came in and said like "oh, they're just bots"

[craggy thistle]

does any1 know the name of the map joshdub used in the "man behind the slaughter" video

[dark harness]

but BOTS WE WERE NOT

[frigid canopy]

You guys like vr chat

[oblique flicker]

I only have 14 tags. very sad

[vocal shard]

no

[vast tulip]

sounds spooky

[inner cape]

i have one big bragging right now

[vocal shard]

for being a wad ?

[inner cape]

yes.

[dark harness]

only kind of

[cold talon]

bots we were not
dunno man, have you looked in the mirror?
you look pretty bot to me

[dark harness]

oh, yes, but I am a deluxe, fully Turing-compliant highly social Loungemax XB-C73 model

not some half-baked Photon kid-script

[vocal shard]

[cold talon]

Photon kid-script

[vast tulip]

I love the cat lines in the quick menu btw! when you click it a few times

[cold talon]

i will have to tell my friends to step up their bot game

[dark harness]

I wonder if any of the lines I wrote made it in there

[umbral reef]

Best one so far is the 'A wise traveler once said "aAaAAAaaA" '

[dark harness]

HA!

that was me

[umbral reef]

Also im fairly sure i spotted 2a3 other ones you would say system

Or for sure where close to whacky enough that you could say them

[vast tulip]

I'm curious what kind of conditions there might be. I spammed it for like, 10 mins yesterday. I'm still seeing new ones today commonly!

[dark harness]

oh, boy, I'm looking at the spreadsheet now and a LOT of my submissions got bounced for being too wierd

[vast tulip]

whaaaa weird ones are the best!

[umbral reef]

@vast tulip I noticed you get a lot of repeat ones with the sudden new one yea. Kinda odd how it works

[dark harness]

in fact, 14/17 of the rejected cat lines are mine

[cold talon]

too weird? just what sort of submissions are you getting?

[umbral reef]

Can we pay for VRC++ too see those?

[dark harness]

"Capitalism Ho!" (that's a line from Recettear, and I felt like it was a good pick for us)

"Here's looking at you, kid" (our users are too young to care)

[vast tulip]

DLC ADDONS: More cat lines! System expansion

[dark harness]

"I like shorts! They're comfy and easy to wear!" (too creepy?)

[umbral reef]

Owkay- I kinda do get why the Recettear one got denied.
And more for the fact its from Recettear 👀

[dark harness]

"E_QUOTE_NOT_FOUND" (might look like a real bug)

"... and this is my favorite store on the Citadel" (okay, I can see why we didn't pick that one)

[cold talon]

DLC: turn the cat into this: and only show system quotes

[arctic elm]

I'll give you a hug and $5 paypal if you put one in saying I'm cool

[dark harness]

"Vivi paid us to say that they're cool"

[arctic elm]

I'll take it lmao

[cold talon]

well that was easy

[stuck remnant]

releasing a membership for vrchat and then mentioning capitalism might not exactly be the best idea lol

[cold talon]

also the E_QUOTE_NOT_FOUND looking like an error, that is the whole point of it, cmon

[dark harness]

I believe that that was the logic behind that denial

[cold talon]

you would get a canny about it tho, but sacrifices must be made

[umbral reef]

What if we make a canny post that its missing

[cold talon]

oh heck lets go

[inner cape]

say "FUNNY_QUOTE_NOT_FOUND"
would make it more obvious

[stuck remnant]

i kinda like that one

[cold talon]

https://imgur.com/a/CzxYZbA

imma do it

[dark harness]

please don't 😛

[cold talon]

you cannot stop meeee

[vocal shard]

😔

[cold talon]

"Something went wrong and posts couldn't be loaded, try again later."
Oh, well i guess you can, huh, well this is awkward...

[dark harness]

pulls his finger away from a button marked "ORBITAL BEAM CANNON"

... uh, yes, that was definitely me that intervened there >_>

[willow dome]

🍊🍊

[cold talon]

oh speaking of ORBITAL BEAM CANNOS
is there still a way to get "system_legend" tag

[dark harness]

yes and no

[arctic elm]

https://ahega.io/i/shark/SunESIrA29.png
imma do it too

[dark harness]

stop it you guys are gonna get me in trouble

[umbral reef]

DW we can make an canny post about you being in trouble and that not being coolio

[cold talon]

dont worry about it, the whole thing cannot be traced back to you

[umbral reef]

Or we just blame someone else for all of this.
That works right?

[dark harness]

I think that the system still hands out "system_legend" as usual, but we hide it from the user because it was considered controversial

[cold talon]

oh huh

[covert chasm]

the client sees it, shrugs, and tosses it aside

[river phoenix]

so legendary can still be achieved?

[cold talon]

i mean can still see it in the api

[dark harness]

The requirements for it were so stupidly high that it was basically just M.imi and O.wlboy when we launched it

[covert chasm]

its ok discord doesn't have highlighting

unless you ping them

[dark harness]

oh, okay

[cold talon]

but tough that it nolonger can be obtained

[river phoenix]

My understanding was your account had to had exist before the trust system was introduced to achieve legendary

[covert chasm]

nah

[oblique flicker]

someone had their friend recently rank up to legedary but not sure is thats really true

[covert chasm]

legendary was intended (from a design POV) as being a "nice job" and a headpat, and that's about it

[oblique flicker]

i saw it here in this discord

[cold talon]

ok so ill just have to buy cancel and buy vrc+ like 5 times to boost to legendary, thanks system

[dark harness]

😛 the boosts don't stack!

[covert chasm]

the (very tiny) boost is one time

[arctic elm]

i want headpats and praise :c

[cold talon]

ill make em stack

boost steam account and boost vrc account than merge into super account

[dark harness]

.. er, I mean, definitely do that 💸 such trust you'll get cough

that would accomplish one thing and one thing only: you would be paying twice as much money for no real benefits

[cold talon]

than i just have to wait until vrc introduces facebook account login (ew) and boost that one too

[oblique flicker]

one weird thing i noticed in the last open beta is my legendary rank appeared above me in game, then it was gone when i restarted

[river phoenix]

So as it's "very tiny" and a lot of my friends (including me) got veteran. My older account didn't get veteran. I know you're not going to give out too much info, but how far were we away from veteran in that case?

[vocal shard]

Is there a VRC+ discord connection?

[cold talon]

nope

[vocal shard]

That'd be a cool feature.

[cold talon]

at least not yet

[dark harness]

We support discord rich presence, as of, like, a week or two ago

looks

oh hey, Asesprite >_>

[cold talon]

well rich presence, but that aint just vrc+

[dark harness]

I just have that open in the background

No, rich presence for everyone, I think

[cold talon]

unless you want to make it paid 👀

[waxen nova]

what is a tiny boost equivalent to??

[little rampart]

being able to change the icon would be nice

[cold talon]

tiny boost, aka jump straight to omega legendary /s

[paper cloak]

I think I had legend actually, iirc when the system was in beta owlboy came up to me all surprised and asked me how many hours I'd played heh

[dark harness]

It's juuust enough to bump you to the next level if you've been playing the game for less than a day, and beyond that it's less than enough for bump you a single level

[covert chasm]

the trust system is complicated, there have been and will be cases where people are sitting on various threshholds that the boost pushes them past, and they may jump 1-2 ranks. these are rare, however, and most users won't be affected much by it. maybe like... 5% of trust jumps due to VRC+ purchase will llook like that?

[dark harness]

but yeah, as tupper noted, the trust system is wildly complicated and opaque

[river phoenix]

i c

[dark harness]

sometimes the boost clears some other temporary condition that was preventing you from jumping a level, and it looks like you got power boosted

[paper cloak]

the last thing we need is a semitransparent trust system killing frames

[covert chasm]

lmao

[cold talon]

opaque? geez man, clean that thing

[river phoenix]

apiuser.trust += new Random().Next(0, 1)
😄

[dark harness]

OH NO! HE'S CRACKED IT!

cheese it

it's the feds

[cold talon]

aw shid, nope i did not see anything

[covert chasm]

when you purchase vrc+ we randomly sample background radiation levels at the time of purchase and that is your boost

[proper stratus]

Lol

[paper cloak]

lol

[noble depot]

orders pounds of enriched uranium

[covert chasm]

okay, now you're on a list

[noble depot]

lmao

[cold talon]

oh damn, rip the people that bought vrc+ when the background radiation was lower than normal

[vocal shard]

@little rampart it's bottlenecked.

[dark harness]

... tbh, before I joined VRChat, I built a game with an "automatic horse drawing ranking algorithm" (you know, stupid indie projects) that just counted the number of colors you used and applied a random number and my users thought I had enlisted a powerful but unpredictable AI but actually it was just stupid rules being stupid

[river phoenix]

I've rushed to trusted on both my OG account and my current main account. I'm sure I actually cracked it for up to trusted. I've been also collecting on what "stats" people got veteran to see what it would take for me. I tried pushing more content that's actively used and see that my play time gets on par with those friends.
I actually didn't expect to rank up to veteran from that boost

[ripe kelp]

you can get cheap uranium off of ebay

[covert chasm]

background radiation is generally constant and homogenous 😛

[cold talon]

key word, generally

[dark harness]

the funny thing was, "count the number of colors you used and apply a random number" did reward more horse-drawing effort

[vocal shard]

Too many big words

[dark harness]

and it was vague enough that nobody guessed what it was and tried all kinds of horse drawings

[cold talon]

time to make muh horse rgb

[dark harness]

mission accomplish

[covert chasm]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background

2.7260±0.0013 K

veeeeeeeeeeeeery tiny variations 😛

[waxen nova]

woah colours

[cold talon]

actually looked up the damn paper dam it man

[dark harness]

i was just disapoint to lern that cosmic background microwave was not way to make giant cosmic macaroni and chease

powdered chedr flakes the size asteroids

[arctic elm]

buys from plane

[covert chasm]

big brain move

[arctic elm]

fun fact, pilots are considered radiation workers :D

[dark harness]

wait a minute

[covert chasm]

and time travelers

[dark harness]

that fact wasn't fun at all!

[river ibex]

🤸‍♂️
🦼 🏌️‍♀️

[arctic elm]

I'm gonna get cancer :/

[warm raven]

I'm not able to see any of the icons I upload, it gives me the from avatars known "Image unavailable" stock image.
Is that server related, or due me just joining the supporters? Or might it be even related to the cache? Just asking as I see some of the devs here atm.

[dark harness]

It's server related!

that's why I'm here

[river ibex]

Same here.

[dark harness]

clowning around to try to distract people while I frantically do server things

[cold talon]

fake, system is here only to make bad puns

[dark harness]

also yes

[warm raven]

Ah, gotcha. Well, gotta wait then till I can show off my fancy support for which a lot of people will discriminate me just like back then when the new user system came out and I instantly turned Trusted User.

[river ibex]

🤸‍♂️ < Server
🦼 🏌️‍♀️ < System

xddd

[dark harness]

I can discriminate against you here if it would help

[cold talon]

actually, one question for Tupper

[warm raven]

I would be glad to get the honor of being discriminated by you.

[dark harness]

Lousy VRChat+ user, paying money to support the devs, you absolute CAD

[covert chasm]

[dark harness]

it's because of jerks like you that we might not have to sell our company to Facebook!

[cold talon]

according to the server records, is it true the 99.85% of all server problems are caused by you Tupper?

[covert chasm]

apparently

[warm raven]

Wow, just feels like VRChat itself. Pretty much accurate.

[dark harness]

see what you've done? you are keeping all of these fine people from being part of the world's most efficient surveillance-advertising scheme

[cold talon]

big fan than, can only dream to have such a high percentage

[arctic elm]

im serious tho ill pay you for a vrcat quote it will make me cry

[warm raven]

You hit it on the point, that's what probably 70% of the people will say.
Well, after all servers, developers, such things as AWS and all that pay themself. Especially when you're having such a high traffic output due avatars, worlds etc. and such probably. I mean a TB isn't as expensive as it used to be back then anymore, but still, the mass makes the price raise quite fast. But well, not that you have to pay for it, right?

[cold talon]

hmmm, do i smell vrc++? for 20$/month you can upload your own cat quotes

(dont actually make it so that it gets uploaded to the servers, its only local but no one will notice)

[dark harness]

vrc+++, for 30$/month you get the "cat quotes" avatar and you get to be other users' quotes

[arctic elm]

what about vrc#

[river phoenix]

^this

[wintry swift]

I actually have a serious question. now that there are vrcplus icons people can upload, is there a policy for what can be a icon. Isn't there a worry someone can upload something really bad as a icon and people can see it?

I don't know much about it, just curious.

[dark harness]

There is a worry! We've had to do moderations on people for uploading pornography or graphic violence in user icons

[wintry swift]

yikes, already

[river phoenix]

I'm sure user icons still have to obey the ToS like avatars and other created content

[warm raven]

Its the internet, I'm surprised that you're surprised.

[wintry swift]

No i'm not suprised. it just seems like people will abuse this

[cold talon]

i mean, peps can already do that with avatars, so nothing really new

[dark harness]

I think the policy is laid out in our community guidelines, but I think that your common sense will provide a lot of the guidance you'd imagine - no graphic pornography, no "shock" images (you know, beheadings and stuff), no swastikas

[warm raven]

Well, with the icon there's finally a way to fancy show off your Discord tag. That's damn gucci.

[quasi fulcrum]

Does anyone have a escanor skin

[dark harness]

And, yeah, rolling out user icons came with us understanding that was going to be a whole new angle to moderate (and a whole new thing that could light the servers on fire) which is one of the reasons I'm kind of glad it's restricted to a subset of our users

Low-effort nasty images are so much easier to get than low-effort nasty avatars

[cold talon]

rn

hmmmmm

[river phoenix]

Yeah. Modeling a swastika is harder than just going on google images to find an image of it

[cold talon]

who said you need to model it

[wintry swift]

Yeah i understand all that. is it possible that people will make new accounts and buy vrcplus for that and do nasty things with images. idk if thats even a thing on vrc cause of ip but yeah oof

[cold talon]

i seen people just straight up having a plane with the image on it

[wintry swift]

although thats such a dumb way to spend your money.

[cold talon]

yeah, i mean if someone has money that they dont need, just send them over, ill gladly take them

[dark harness]

If users want to blow $10 every time that they upload swastikas, our moderation team becomes a profit centre 😛

[wintry swift]

thats hilarious. but also sad. for them.

just ban em and watch em do it again and keep banning them.

[soft prism]

how do you change your controls

[cold talon]

You ask system to change them globally

[dark harness]

you absolutely do not

[vast tulip]

I feel like this is the only reason gta 5 has sold so well. from people being banned from online play

[modern hill]

True

Even my brother have been banned once and when he got a new account they wouldn't unban the old one when he emailed them but they instead gave him like a ton of in-game money on a new one

[vocal shard]

[gray rune]

To be fair, I can understand why people aren't too thrilled about VRC+. I mean, when you have bugs that have been in the game since 2018 still present, and even have old bugs brought back, it makes you wonder why this is happening despite a crap ton of money from investors has been supposed to go to the game's development. Not to mention, this is an early access game gaining a subscription service as opposed to doing it when the game is closer to leaving early access. I get that money has to go to helping out with the servers, and the companies are expecting getting money back out of their investments, but these old bugs should've been addressed before you forced out things like Avatar 3.0, new nameplates, subscription service.

[modern hill]

Which bugs?

[inner cape]

you

[modern hill]

Except the loading screen bug that is annoying

[vocal shard]

Isn't stuff like SDK3 part of the solution to address the bugs? Like a more refined base to work off of

[dark harness]

Yes, I'm told you're not allowed to charge for a game until it's bug free.

[modern hill]

Their slowly maybe removing the spaghetti

Also true u didn't pay for the game so u can't really complain

[cold talon]

Well, loading screen, stuttering, vrik execution order, some layer stuff in av3.0 that I have no idea how to trigger, the cat quotes bug, high delay (not really a bug)

Those are the ones I know of

[vocal shard]

Server, maintenance, R&D and trust and cost money. How do you expect things to get fixed if people don't get paid? Could you imagine what would happen if people said "You're not allowed to charge for a phone line"? the infrastructure would collapse.

[modern hill]

It's a game based on user created content what do u expect

[dark harness]

Did you know that Steam doesn't even allow developers to charge money for early access games? They're like "no, that isn't finished, you can't charge for it until it's done"

[modern hill]

Wut I paid for pubg when it was early access

[cold talon]

That is why you release and than just slap patches and dlc on it

[dark harness]

Were there bugs in it? If there were you got taken

[cold talon]

Ez moneys

[modern hill]

It was buggy af

[dark harness]

gasp

and you still... paid for it? WHY?

[modern hill]

Like the game would randomly crash when trying to start a match

Because it was fun and how could I play without paying

[dark harness]

"Why would you build Udon instead of fixing a corner-case bug from 2018 that frustrates everyone" > i don't know, Udon's pretty cool

[river phoenix]

fix photon voice bug plz. fix avatar loading make pc go brrt plz
hehe

[gray rune]

SDK3 doesn't address the game's internal bugs though. Also I'm not meaning that the game has to be 100% bug free to have a subscription service, but normally you'd expect older bugs to get stamped out at the very least before you attempt to push out so many new things. And I'm no coder, but I feel that it's always a good idea to avoid recycling some old code from very old Unity builds of a game. They tend to cause bugs, frame drops, and even cause things like physics to freak out.

[modern hill]

Udon has been in works for as long as I remember lol just look at the dev updates from back in 2016 if their still on their yt

Udon is pretty kewl lel

[obsidian kestrel]

avoid recycling some old code from very old Unity builds of a game
You want them to rewrite the game every unity update? Not really viable

[modern hill]

Unity 2019 is a broken piece of crap I rather they stay with 2018

[swift cloud]

they'll never get rid of any bugs if they're busy re-making shit xD

[dark harness]

Taking investor money doesn't actually mean "perfect your game" - if anything, every time we take investor money, we are promising to GO FASTER and MAKE EVEN MESSIER MISTAKES

[modern hill]

That's true

[gray rune]

I'm not saying to rewrite it. I'm just saying not to bring back code from say Unity 5.6.3p1 that had been removed during the jump to Unity 2017 LTS back into a version of the game in Unity 2018.

[dark harness]

What investors want to see more than anything is rapid growth, not careful, thoughful, slow-pace engineering. If VRC+ allows us to stop leaning on Investor Money That Is Actively On Fire, it actually could mean a more thoughtful pace of development

which, to be honest, some of our more exhausted engineers, might really appreciate

[modern hill]

Headpats to the vrchat community

[ruby burrow]

I mean, bugs or no bugs, I've gotten 3000+ hours out of this game that's been a genuinely life changing experience.
I'd rather throw a few dollars towards supporting it whilst it's got 30 bugs, than see it shut down and die with 10 bugs.

VRC has already earned more from me than anything else I've ever played, and it's asked for absolutely nothing from me for all this time.

[modern hill]

Imagine vrchat adding ad spots in the menus

uvu

[vocal shard]

Ready player one

infrastructure and bug fixes requires monies. Why are people angry about something that should be common sense?

[modern hill]

Omg yes, what about lewd ads lmao jk

[vocal shard]

O.O

[modern hill]

Wtf

Wait who's the ceo of vrchat

[hallow zealot]

hey i tried to open a ticket for support but when i press "create ticket" nothing happens O.o

[arctic elm]

me c:

[modern hill]

Lol

[inner cape]

system spilled some beans

[vocal shard]

what the heck? That name is all special characters.

[willow dome]

🍊🍊🍊

[modern hill]

Oranges

[dark harness]

Graham and Jesse are sort of co-leads to the company. I think that Graham is officially the CEO and Jesse is officially the CTO, but we're very engineering-driven, so they're both powerful. With the CCO (Chief Creative), Ron, they form the trifecta of leadership. I'm spillin' no beans, here, they're the names on all the early articles about our company. 😛

[stuck remnant]

tangerines

[willow dome]

Tangerines

[night lava]

its not just me with a broken invite system, right

[gray rune]

Most players know that it requires money, which is why you also have people suggesting Patreon or even one time payment DLC for the game. The devs get their money, and the players don't have to worry about things like, "Oh you don't have VRC+? You are just a scrub." Or, "You use your parent's credit card to pay for a stupid subscription service? What a scrub."

[modern hill]

I see, kewl if u say their nice i bet they don't bite

[night lava]

as my game now refuses to load the world.

[hallow zealot]

any help pls? :<

[willow dome]

📙 🍊

[vocal shard]

Infrastructure and staff isn't a one time thing. They need to get paid.

[willow dome]

See different colors

[ruby burrow]

Patreon is a stepping stone, not something suitable for a major project like this.

[modern hill]

Patreon takes a cut

[ruby burrow]

Imagine Youtube operating via Patreon. It'd be a joke.

[modern hill]

Even though it's small, it's a lot when the sum is high

[vocal shard]

That'd be brutal lmao

[rapid plover]

Poor peole

[ruby burrow]

Might have been fine to have one up til now, but we're past the scale that any self respecting company can rely on something like that for the future of their financial stability.

[dark harness]

Patreon takes a cut, Steam takes a cut, stacked cuts are brutal

[modern hill]

Reee

[vocal shard]

Yep everyone wants a piece of that pie

[ruby burrow]

And the one time payment thing should be obvious to anyone why it can't work for a live service like VRC.

[gray rune]

Youtube however uses ads though.

[stuck remnant]

please do not add ads to vrchat

[swift cloud]

you want ads in vrchat???

[vocal shard]

NO LOL

[ruby burrow]

If you want to make one off payment work as a model, then you need near zero server/maintenance costs.
Meaning that all instances and avatars must be hosted privately by players.

[vocal shard]

Could you fkin imagine

[willow dome]

shut your mouth stoopid. No ads stoopi

[modern hill]

Then pll would make adblock mod for vrchat

[vocal shard]

VRC+ is a required thing for infrastructure, staff, profit, etc. if people want to avoid advertising everywhere in the game.

[dark harness]

I'm not promising we'll never do ads, but I can say that there are things you need to do to make ads really profitable: absolutely destroy mods and invasively surveil your users - and we aren't that excited about either of those things.

[vocal shard]

Oh yeah the paid vrchat I forgot bout that when's it launching

[willow dome]

Not totally. Elite dangerous still updates. One time purchase and what not

[fierce trail]

I mean + is kinda like patreon. Both are monthly payments which offer some benefits.

[gray rune]

That wasn't what I said. I said that youtube uses ads, so them using Patreon isn't much of a comparison.

[vocal shard]

YouTube overkills the ads though lol

[dark harness]

Advertisers can also complain bitterly about content on your platform that they find objectionable

[stuck remnant]

true

[warm raven]

Tfw you not have uBlock Origin on mobile YouTube

[ruby burrow]

Elite dangerous works entirely different to VR-Chat.

[modern hill]

We don't want those hentai ads reee

[warm raven]

Well, Firefox mobile with uBlock does the trick.

[scenic imp]

hey so has anyone notice that the vrchat website is using swquare space

[vocal shard]

Say what not oishi I'm checking that live lol

Now *

[gray rune]

At the same time, I don't recall Patreon pushing content that players have wanted for a while in games behind a paywall.

[willow dome]

servers up all the time

[ruby burrow]

When you enter an instance in VRC, the world has to be downloaded from somewhere. When you view any avatar, it has to come from somewhere. .

[dark harness]

.... wait, Patreon doesn't allow for paywalls? I thought that was ALL they allowed?

[swift cloud]

what the- Patreon is ABOUT the monthly rewards

[modern hill]

Same, u pay and u gain access to more stuff

[fierce trail]

👆

[warm raven]

Imagine a company wanting to make money to survive, or even more horrible, to actually make maybe profit to expand and such things.

[swift cloud]

how much do you want a profile pic.... dayum

[gray rune]

You don't even need to put stuff behind a paywall is the thing. Just have a patreon where you can pay some money to the devs and maybe you get a support badge, but that's it.

[vocal shard]

There's even some games that are funded by patreon, but they only release updates through the paywall

[fierce trail]

You suggested VRChat use patron instead of plus, but it would be the exact same thing

[fierce trail]

And no one would pay for that

[rapid plover]

Can anyone tell me how i get skins that arent the beginning ones?

[obsidian kestrel]

Go to avatar worlds. There is a section for them in the world list

[rapid plover]

Is there other ones then those?

[dark harness]

So, I've been reading all of the VRChat+ feedback, every single word, and - I feel pretty good about it. Some users want us to give the whole game away for free, and just let users pay what they want to support us. Some users complain that the features that we're offering are not worth anywhere near $9.99, not when the whole game is free - and the fact that people are complaining both that VRChat+ has too many features and not enough features makes me feel like we're threading the needle pretty well

[obsidian kestrel]

If you're a new user or higher you can upload your own

[rapid plover]

Ok

[warm raven]

I'm surprised VRChat didn't go the WoW route so far, by having a monthly fee. So far with how they want to move, it seems pretty fair to have "additional" features behind a "additional" way of support.

[ruby burrow]

Actually, I get the impression that most people are paying for VRC+, for just those reasons. 90% to give support, with 10% token benefits.

[vocal shard]

different price range would be a very excellent addition tbh

[river ibex]

Not everyone can afford a monthly payment.

[vocal shard]

And as well, since investors have a say in pushing development, a sustainable official means of income is preferred. Something like relying just on patreon wouldn't instill much confidence to the investors

[ruby burrow]

Particularly all the users that are already a year+ above trusted rank that don't use public avatars.

[dark harness]

We worried that going full WoW/Netflix/Spotify would kill the community dead

[fierce trail]

Yeah very true, however those photo invites I would gladly pay the same as nitro for

[regal furnace]

pretty sure the way its handled now was the best decision. maybe add a 5$ version with less features (maybe only 50 favs and the image icon)?

[gray rune]

The bottom line in my opinion is if you're going to put new features behind a paywall, have it be a one time thing, or if you want people to pay more often, then don't have additional benefits beyond a badge.

[ruby burrow]

"...the fact that people are complaining both that VRChat+ has too many features and not enough features... "
Yeah, I've been explaining this to both sides myself lately. It's a tricky balance.

[warm raven]

If reasonable priced and put together with thought, regional pricing etc, most if not all can.
It's not like there's so many people actually buying VR equipment for $300 to $1000 and even further up just to play this virtual world even.

[fierce trail]

One time fee doesn't pay the bills in the long term

[vocal shard]

yeah

[pastel dirge]

well im not going to get any kind of vrc+ for anytime untill they can make the vrc+ a hideable thing. just like when you sub to a twitch chat you can hide your badge. i dont wana go and show off if you wana support a game its done for the support reason not for a badge. i dont like that tag on my name

[elfin matrix]

i bought the year to support, and don't use my image. hiding the + in social would be nice too

[river ibex]

There are people who spend $500 on PlayStation 5 to play Fortnite.

[river ibex]

It's a temporal bug, don't worry, be patient.

[gray rune]

Like I said, if you want to have people pay more often, then don't give a lot of benefits beyond a badge. A user wanting to support the devs should be the only reason to keep on paying money.

[elfin matrix]

i don't think having the + in social when you have vrc+ is a bug

[dark harness]

I think "I want to keep my icons" is also a good reason to keep paying money! 😛

[ruby burrow]

VRC is one of those games that benefits from having a strong user base, since even non-paying users bring a portion of content creators.
Content alone cannot pay the bills, but it keeps the game alive and attracting those invested players who are willing to pay the bills.

[dark harness]

Yeah - anything we do to scare away content creators badly hurts the VRChat experience

[ruby burrow]

I entirely agree that a full mandatory subscription would utterly murder the game.

[river ibex]

Define "VRChat experience". That was only experienced in 2017.

[warm raven]

Arguable, Discord doesn't do it different with animated profile pictures, a custom user ID and so on.
It's nice to have some goodies, because they give people even more a reason to put in support even when they're normally not willing to support anything.

[gray rune]

Custom icons shouldn't be something you have to pay for though. Do you think people would be thrilled if Youtube made it so you had to pay $10 a month just to have a profile pic?

[dark harness]

😛 obviously by "the VRChat experience" I mean getting shouted at by randos with full-screen shaders

[ruby burrow]

Even the happiest and most supportive players would feel the loss, when over half of their friends leave, which would just cascade.

[river ibex]

I mean in public worlds, haha

[swift cloud]

"pay more often" lmao I have to wait till 2022 to pay my next vrc+ :p

[arctic elm]

so uh when is vrchat 2 coming out

[dark harness]

I don't think people are thrilled that YouTube made it so that you can pay $10/month to not get bombarded with chipper assholes telling you about Grammarly

MY GRAMMAR IS FINE, YOUTUBE

[warm raven]

I don't think they will go the Blizzard route and put out a reskin of OW and call it OW2.

[modern hill]

U can always get an adblocker on yt

[gray rune]

Adblock exists to deal with ads however.

[river ibex]

+10 xd

[dark harness]

Google is doing everything they can to destroy adblock

[modern hill]

Adaway workes well

[regal furnace]

no one uses youtube plus or whatever this shit is called

[swift cloud]

*twitch

[river ibex]

They said that years ago, look now. xD

[regal furnace]

they are slowly going around the default Opera adblocker though

[river phoenix]

surprisingly amazon is ahead on twitch

[river ibex]

Everybody needs money, everybody wants free stuff. We have a big dilemma here.

[vocal shard]

@regal furnace I use Youtube Premium every so often, it's for downloading videos on android and avoiding ads entirely.

[river ibex]

By surprise, when you do things right, customers don't care about paying.

[arctic elm]

I have yt premium because i use yt music and no ads is nice

[regal furnace]

i download videos via an external website and dont even download on my phone, so it is pretty unneccessary for me

[warm raven]

Tbh, Google is just nice till now. If they want to, they could easily prevent more and more adblockers.

[river ibex]

I ear police sirens going to your house.

[regal furnace]

👀

[dark harness]

Google is infinitely patient and they have a lot of good-will that they haven't squandered yet, but they also built an entire browser stack, and I believe that 90% of the reason that Chrome exists is as part of a 20 year plan to crush Adblock

can't crush adblock until you control the browser market

[arctic elm]

yeah if they make adblock die on chrome I'm switching lol

[vocal shard]

Hey uh

Quick question

[dark harness]

oh, what about the android, a whole OS that they control top to bottom, how easy is it to block the ads there? 😛 oh you have to root your phone you say? Highly discouraged? 😛

[modern hill]

I just use adblock on yt music on my phone lel, shhhh

[warm raven]

Imagine them removing the adblock extensions on the store, and even if they offer later somewhere else an extension for Chrome doing the same, a lot of people would be already having issues finding out how to even install unsigned extensions in Chrome. And well, Chrome is definitely the most used browser.

[river ibex]

The phone is used to play and farm Gatchas, not to watch videos.

[modern hill]

U can install add-ons trough files

[warm raven]

So, considering they're even giving adblockers a space so far, I definitely think Google is quite patient.

[vocal shard]

Well it’s not really a question but anyways. I’m trying to friend someone on the oculus version of VRChat and it’s not working. Is this happening for anyone else? are there any solutions?

[dark harness]

😛 I do think they're patient, but I also think that google wants adblockers gone and they're slowly doing what they can to make that happen. Not all at once, just a few squeezes at a time.

[arctic elm]

vrcblock+

[river ibex]

Imagine tongue out emojis

[modern hill]

They don't want pll to get a virus because their desperate for an adblocker, but it wasn't available on the store so they went sketchy

Lol

[regal furnace]

simpblock+

[modern hill]

Lmao

[dark harness]

👨‍🎨 🦋 "is this punctuation" 😛

[arctic elm]

no the simps give you money don't block them

[vocal shard]

Google's entire business started with AdWords. It's literally a marketing company that supported by other companies through pay per click.
Anyway, back to VRC, I think it's either subscription or ads to make a profit and pay everyone. I'm glad the devs chose the subscription option.

[warm raven]

Nah, that's definitely not it. Even tho one of the cool things of Google is that they, if I'm not wrong, own VirusTotal, which is a damn great website.

[modern hill]

Tru tru

[regal furnace]

the only simps i met were either ignoring me completely, giving me headpats or were total creeps

[modern hill]

I would pat u

[arctic elm]

simps ignoring 🤔

[river phoenix]

virustotal. perfect to collect data

[modern hill]

uvu

[gray rune]

Like I said, they can still do a payment option, but just let players decide to support the devs out of good will. Not because, "I have to pay $10 a month or $100 a year to access features that should've already been in the game for free."

[river ibex]

😛
🪵 🏹

[modern hill]

What features?

Do u need

[arctic elm]

vrc should give me a free in game netflix sub >:c

[obsidian kestrel]

Game is ruined because i can't have an icon 😢

[modern hill]

Awwh

[river ibex]

All that third-party developers offer us for free. cof

[gray rune]

There are people who have wanted customizable nameplates for a while now. People that have wanted to have a lot more avatar slots available besides just the 16-25.

[modern hill]

I don't trust any 3rd party with my account

[river ibex]

It would be a good time to implement them now for legal.

[warm raven]

If we're being honest here tho, if they wanted to, they could also prevent such "third-party developers" more strictly.
Which would lead to not having said 3rd party-tools anymore at all. And to not having an alternative at all.

[river ibex]

+1000 I support this.

[warm raven]

You could say just like Google, as the discussion earlier, the VRChat devs are in my opinion quite patient.

[vocal shard]

Early access to a new UI is expected. Also the boost doesn't affect the rank that much. Like I said, either ads or subscriptions.

I'd rather choose to subscribe than VRC to be controlled by advertisers.

[river ibex]

But at the same time implement all the positive of these tools.

[modern hill]

Vrc could easily ban everyone who logs into the game with a client as u can easily detect who runs melon

[river ibex]

Imagine using tokens with private and self-generated keys by a unique and official client that can only be detected by the server.

Just imagine.

[modern hill]

Lol

[river ibex]

Imagine a security system, like the one I mentioned earlier so that avatars are only downloaded with an official client, and that you cannot download the private model in Google Chrome with a URL.

Imagine a moderation that bans the entry of reported users, videotaped, using tools to steal avatars.

[river phoenix]

Anything your client can display as an avatar aka. decrypt, so can another tool. Reverse engineering keys is not magic

[river ibex]

Because I have videos of these users, and they keep playing VRChat and doing their thing.

[river phoenix]

You can make things harder for avatar stealers. You can't make it impossible

It's the same like with cheats and anti-cheats. You probably won't believe it, but cheat developers are always ahead of anti-cheat developers

[modern hill]

Tru^ there is no way to prevent memory ripping

But let's switch topic

[dark harness]

We could ban thousands of mod users by detecting users who are running melon, although presumably after a little while modders would figure out the ways we detected them that time and patch those out, and then we'd move on to a new stage of the constant cat-and-mouse-game

[river phoenix]

Exactly what I said

[dark harness]

Yeah, it's - it's not a one-and-done thing, it's a constant battle

[river phoenix]

I guess vrc staff are aware that not everyone uses malicious things with melon. I for one would be happy if something I made would be implemented cough

[vast tulip]

Modded clients are never allowed and are always bannable. Don't think otherwise

[river phoenix]

I'm completely aware of that

[dark harness]

Yeah, and there's also the "we know that most mods aren't malicious" - but it's really, wildly difficult to tell malicious modders from non-malicious ones, which is why our policy is that they're blanket not allowed

that way if we have to charge through with an axe (and it happens sometimes) we can point to our policy and say "told ya"

[opaque jasper]

how do I report people

for crashing entire lobbies

and flying

[dark harness]

send deets to [e-mail]

[opaque jasper]

Just his name?

[river ibex]

And what about implementing its functions in the official game?
I'm not saying to copy the code, i mean make it functional and well done.

[modern hill]

U could record or use shadow play replay

[river phoenix]

Most mods that aren't malicious are open-source and actually useful

[regal furnace]

flying on its own is not really rule breaking, its rather a bug from the game

[river phoenix]

So implementing them into the actual game shouldn't be too much of an issue 🤷‍♂️

[dark harness]

I'm not sure if I understand your question, Kiwa? Like, what if we were to take mod features and put them in our game as real features, a thing that we totally never do because that would be ridiculous cough wink?

[modern hill]

True but TOS, non exception policy

[river phoenix]

Saving full body calibrations across avatars when? 😮

[arctic elm]

playspace mover is a godsend, hopefully thats never banable

[river ibex]

Imagine a serious Staff who does not laugh at their community.

[vocal shard]

Didn't Ron say in the sdk3 channel a while back that stuff like for example, physicals interaction may be implemented officially? Under a new system though

[frosty veldt]

@arctic elm Moving your play space has nothing to do with VRC, so it cant really be bad

[modern hill]

Honestly that would maybe work for some avatars but not all lol, at least not for me

[arctic elm]

that's what i've heard

[vocal shard]

Playspace mover is steamvr