Yee. It needs to be quick. So most of that stuff is bound to gesture overrides.
#vrchat-general-2
whole hound
echo sigil
I'm in the debug menu with friends rn. This is NOT a way people can steal account period
whole hound
My facial gestures and stuff are working. Idk about anyone else.
agile moon
So Brochacho and countless other avatars are just not useable now?
winged adder
Though I think lolathon and chimp have like.. Vive and index, so their keybinds are different
whole hound
Vive controllers. Index headset yeah.
winged adder
I know radiant has knuckles...he hardly uses.
agile moon
Guess it doesn’t matter, don’t have VR anyways. Looks at wallet
dawn mortar
I still wish I could afford trackers 
winged adder
I just know that for Oculus controllers this update is... Annoying.
whole hound
I have oculus.
echo sigil
I made the joke when I heard about the private beta that now we can be crashed so many different ways with a single avatar!
disable mic button in settings for anyone with a rift. Makes it way better. Playspace move set to x
winged adder
sits on the bench of "less easy to jump and playspace move" with bee
ruby needle
One way or 100 ways with the same end result isn't really making things worst tho. 
(Yes i know that was a sarcastic message. )
echo sigil
xD
agile moon
lol
winged adder
I still see the problem of avatar authors not being willing to learn this new system,if they're even active. There's some avatars you can tell haven't been touched in 2 years
ruby needle
Sure, but ... 2.0 isn't just "not there" anymore, they're staying 2.0 and that's it then.
agile moon
Where would I look to, if I wanted to try getting into making avatars?
winged adder
Yes but what if they were fbt avatars?
ruby needle
Atm i think it'll take a tiny bit for nice all in one tutorials of the realease version ov AV 3.0
winged adder
Now they are broken 2.0 avatars
ruby needle
Sure, if they did the off spec tweak then that'll be that.
But that's not really 3.0 / learning a new system related. 
winged adder
I understand fbt was hacky and should have been fixed prior, but fixing it with a lot of other changes at the same time is a big oof
ruby needle
I personally thing if not now, where a lot of people will remake things in 3.0, then when?
agile moon
^
ruby needle
Now is the perfect time (or earlier) but not at a later point
Cus then you gotta redo it again later, instead of both now.
agile moon
Also true
unborn sorrel
I don’t know how I feel about the new update
Tho most of the serious players I’ve managed to talk to seem to hate the update
There are some nice things but the vast majority seem to be complaints
vocal shard
The new update is good fixing lagg problems and FPS drops, not gonna lie, but i lost many avatars cuz the legs are broken (as some the arms) and i can edit them cuz are old avatars thta i don't have the project anymore.
agile moon
It’s effected a lot of people differently, depends on who you ask. Haven’t touched the game in awhile personally so wouldn’t really know the difference
ruby needle
The problem with judging percentage is, people who like it dont have much to shoud around
unborn sorrel
No games lags worse
ruby needle
The negative side is ALWAYS more active and loud
ivory axle
Is it true or confirmed that the security of peoples account are lacking and so they are being hacked?
raven shoal
My avatars are working completely fine actually way better than before im loving the new calibration tbh its way better now and the new toggle system too.
vocal shard
Well if the negative is loud it maybe means something?
unborn sorrel
Vrc security has always been a touchy topic
ruby needle
If you have a good on Amazon with with one 5 star and one 1 star vode, likely there has been at least 5 more people who would have voted 5 stars but are simply not having any reason to write stuff
If you have something you greatly dislike you're going to complain
but will you actively "oh this is sooo goood" everywhere on every new thing?
uneven escarp
My biggest issue is that the hands drift from the controllers now
unborn sorrel
If you get more complaints then praise something is wrong
west yoke
Negative is loud no matter where you go. People will complain about an issue easily, but are less likely to compliment it or say anything if they aren’t having issues
ruby needle
You didnt understand what i was trying to say, did you. @unborn sorrel
ivory axle
There is huge concern of peoples accounts being stolen due to a bug can anyone confirm this?
uneven escarp
@lunar knoll source on that? Everyone in game I have heard from has complaints 😛
unborn sorrel
But no the devs no beat trust me 😉
ruby needle
If you have one person yelling "this sucks" and one "this is good" there is nearly always 4 more quiet friends behing the good person.
carmine nebula
So pretty much... If you have avatars under the 2.0SDK, it can still function properly under 3.0 mechanics for this new updates. Which is awesome knowing they properly work.
ruby needle
While if "this sucks" had friend's they'd yell back pretty much right away.
echo sigil
The thing about people stealing accounts is complete bs. There is no way to use the new debug system to steal accounts period. It is nothing more than playspace tracking of you and your avatar. It's safe to even stream with the debug thing open. It is nothing more than a rumor. Your account is as safe as before avatar 3.0 went live
ivory axle
Mhm just wanted more insight as some people are freaking out about it in some other servers
echo sigil
I checked into it myself a few seconds ago. The only way they can steal your account is with a client or hack. This has always been a thing if that is the case. Nothing to do with this update
ivory axle
Mhm
ruby needle
That is exactly how it works...
Look, if 10.000 demonstrate against Corona measurement's, but there is no one celebrating how good they are, does that mean it's bad to have the measurements?
Maybe that's a good example.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
unborn sorrel
If you have negative reviews on so something and are consistent in the complaints there is a obvious problem
You don’t assume there are 4 other supporters behind d the one that gave a good review
Where did corona come from
I’m sure everyone is pretty vocal about that
echo sigil
Personally, as much as I'm in the middle with this update, I find your immediate desire to ignore the backlash is quite insulting to the players. The dev team has done it with udon as well. While the negative is usually louder, it seems really louder than the positive this time. I'd suggest listening to both sides equally
raven shoal
^
echo sigil
I could easily write 10. It's fixed now however
ivory axle
Sometimes criticism is the best way of learning
ruby needle
Actual constructive criticism is good and always apreciated
rigid sun
Criticism =/= moaning
ruby needle
^
ivory axle
Yee there has to be a happy medium ofc
echo sigil
This is only true if you don't write every piece of critisism off as moaning^^^
dawn mortar
the majority of what ive seen right now is just "i dont like different controls"
ruby needle
^A valid critic point
rigid sun
It is
ivory axle
People gotta deal with change or just change the key mapping lmao
echo sigil
Which you have been seeming to do just that. Writing every bit of backlash off as moaning
rigid sun
I literally just did not do that right above your statement. Good job.
unborn sorrel
@ruby needle you saying that is funny
uneven escarp
My biggest complaints is the IK feels off in some ways, and hands drift a lot. Your avatar hands should be directly attached to your controllers
echo sigil
30 second chat delay exists lithium. I couldn't send it sooner. Sorry.
rigid sun
it's fine.
grizzled pasture
Left axis 2 press is the solution for index users wanting the old gesture system. Yes it;s fine to have opinions about the control scheme.
dawn mortar
yeah thats valid criticism, maybe having alternate control schemes would be very handy
echo sigil
Again, I like this update really. I wish it didn't break some of my avatars, but it's kind of nice. I was able to fix my controls by disabling the new button. Easy
indigo fern
your controller might be drifting, last time i checked hands were always locked to controllers, thats why you can pull your own chest around when too short sometimes
ruby needle
@unborn sorrel One of the major hate points of people has been "the new calibration sucks, give backthe old one" while they A haven't given it a chance and B there is a startup parameter to use the old one.
The other is complains about inpropper setup avatars breaking (neck fix) due to vrchat having actually fixed a long standing bug.
unborn sorrel
There is a reason why people hate iy
uneven escarp
@indigo fern Lemme upload a video in a moment to show it off. Reinstalling VRChat completely to make sure it isnt another issue
ivory axle
Ugh no one should use neckfix anyway so that's on them
dawn mortar
usually if your hand starts drifting its a sensor issue on your end
ruby needle
Yes, and it's been recommendet against for ages @ivory axle
echo sigil
How long would you say giving it a chance takes? It's been a night
indigo fern
yea the game should lock it, it does this with head now too for no head drift in fbt
unborn sorrel
You fixed a bug and didn’t consider the reproductions to avatars
ivory axle
@unborn sorrel they shouldnt have had neckfix anywau
dawn mortar
Imagine slamming the developers for fixing a bug like what
ruby needle
@echo sigil it's more about actually trying it and see how it works instead of yelling at it cus it's different and you dont like it on the first view.
unborn sorrel
The community had found a fix and yet you ignored it
ruby needle
Not a actual "this amount of time"
indigo fern
making the neck non existent isnt exactly a fix, thats a workaround for old jank
now the jank is gone
echo sigil
Yes, but many have given it a try, and have said they didn't like it. Is that still just moaning?
ivory axle
@unborn sorrel it wasnt a fix and it hasnt been encouraged for years so the rigging issues is the creators problem
rigid sun
... I'm... pretty sure they did? Like, that's the reason I've been "simping to vrc" right now.
You literally just said EXACTLY why I think a lot of you are being idiots about this situation.
"how DARE VRC devs fix a long standing bug we said they were ignoring~"
vocal shard
Either i am dumb or you need both sdk2 and sdk3 to even make sdk3 work. Even though the website claims they aren't compatible. But if you just import sdk3, it just doesnt work by itself because its claiming the "Avatar descriptor" is missing
echo sigil
I find the new tracking pretty nice tbh. Might not switch back. I'm just genuinely curious with these questions I'm asking. No shade towards you at all :3
unborn sorrel
So we need to fix the avatars now
rigid sun
... yes. You do.
ivory axle
@unborn sorrel that's on you if you had the neckfix.
indigo fern
watch the neck fix tutorials backwards
ruby needle
You need to make them back to the way the game has always specified how they should be.
Yes.
west yoke
You broke it now you need to fix it
rigid sun
If you're doing stuff that is not supported by VRC (which explicitly stated in their documentation not to use any FBT fixes) then it breaks, that's on you
dawn mortar
The developers fixed it and now you need to remove the bandaid you applied to your avatars
ruby needle
Correct
vocal shard
Except because avatar descriptor isnt present the entire sdk3 wont compile correctly
rigid sun
Well, stitching. Not a bandaid. Think of it more like removing stitches. Can't just rip it out or you'll break everything, but you have to undo it for it to "heal" correctly
Also it sounds like your import of SDK3 failed
echo sigil
I find the hips a little weird with the new calibration. They seem to jiggle a bit. Might be a hip rotation or a zero weight bone
vocal shard
it gives me that error, unless they want me to remove every single component with a script attached and start over
edgy quail
just make a new unity project it takes like 5 minutes
rigid sun
It does state that upgrading from SDK2.0 to SDK3.0 is not supported on the download page. You have to do a new project.
echo sigil
What exactly needs redone? Just the animating or the entire avatar? I can't see how it needs completely redone if it's mainly animation changes
vocal shard
Riiight now i know, thanks
indigo fern
and it probably says back up your old project too
echo sigil
looks at my touch inventory rip
thankfully my touch inventory avatars seem perfect with this update. No need to update them :3
rigid sun
That's probably the best thing about it @echo sigil 😄. I'm excited to have outfits and other random things~
dawn mortar
You shouldn't need to start a new project, so long as you get rid of all the SDK2 components and then rid yourself of anything related to SDK2 in your project files you should be able to then import SDK3 in with no issues
echo sigil
Yeah I really like the wheel! Like the rgb changing I really like
rigid sun
i wanna see someone take that wheel and put it in like... a phone? like a phone menu. Give us menu options!!!! D:
fierce grotto
is there any way get old "enable gesture"-bind back in valve index?😬
unborn sorrel
@ruby needle I can’t fix it since I brought the avatars from people and some don’t make models anymore and I don’t have files
rigid sun
That sucks.
ruby needle
This is ofc a bummer.
The one at fault here is still either the commissioner who did not make the avatar to sepcs, or the customer for demanding a off spec setup (fix)
I do totally undertand that this sucks ofc, but you can't really blame this on VRC.
unborn sorrel
So I now can’t use avatars that I love greatly because of this
stable folio
Dumb question. If I used the "fix model" with CATS, are my models FUBARd?
rigid sun
idk why but that always fubar'd everything i did with my models.... lol
stable folio
The fix model was always super helpful for my models in the last system and worked fantastic. I'm just making sure since I've literally used that on every model I have. I'd rather not have to recreate 40 models if I don't have to.
grizzled pasture
@fierce grotto there is a way to get the old gesture system back, but you will have to familiarize yourself with the SteamVR bindings
add "left axis 2 press" to the thing you want to be your gesture toggle
ruby needle
Why not just try them in vr? 😄 @stable folio
stable folio
Please don't be dismissive of my question. It's rude. I haven't had the chance and if I need to recreate them at least I can plan ahead.
ruby needle
Im sorry, this wasn't ment to be rude.
You probably want to give them a test when you can, if you did the fix that changed the neck then you'll need to redo them
indigo fern
you can still use fix model, they disabled fbt fix in cats a long time ago
indigo fern
its still an option, but in cats they do tell you its old and not needed
stable folio
Thank you N for answering. I was pretty sure that CATS was endorsed by vrchat on their documentation. It would feel like a stab in the back of they broke because I used CATS.
indigo fern
but if youre not in fullbody, currently all av2 avatars are set to male and may mess up the legs making them go inward
https://discordapp.com/channels/189511567539306508/189511567539306508/741157608991359087
not an intention thing theyre looking to fix that since its an actual problem
stable folio
Not a surprise. VRChat seems to always breaks more things than it fixes. Luckily I'm a Fullbody user.
indigo fern
then you should be solid ye
stable folio
Still hopefully this update is better than the one where they FUBARd the vive controls for a solid 6 months and refused to change it. Let's hope I suppose.
indigo fern
new calibration method too, so try to get used to it
after like the first minute or so it feels a lot better than the old way
toxic pasture
Is Burst implemented yet?
stable folio
I'm going to guess probably not, but we'll see I suppose. Ive heard a lot of complaints from my fellow full body users, but I'm trying to keep and open mind since it's not like I have any choice at this point.
Thanks again for your helpful answers.
indigo fern
most of the complaints are because they arent adapting, it really is better
the only thing you have to do now is fiddle with your height so your feet are matching your avatar, head is always in place
like just set height and look straight, using playspace doesnt do anything anymore
vocal shard
Apparently the 3.0 update had made accounts susceptible to being stolen so you should avoid public worlds atm
stable folio
Unfortunately I take their opinion highly since they're fbt performers. If they can't adapt to it, I worry about the masses. But we'll give it a week I suppose. They can always use the legacy version until vrchat takes that away too.
toxic pasture
Apparently the 3.0 update had made accounts susceptible to being stolen so you should avoid public worlds atm
@vocal shard
They've always been susceptible.
vocal shard
Yeah, it was just made aware to me that the debug tool allows pretty easy access now so I figured I'd try and pass along the message
halcyon flame
im so goddamn confused
toxic pasture
Debug tool isn't as easy as your steam api
halcyon flame
so is it safe to continue to go to public worlds
vocal shard
If its just a rumor then that's super rad. Just tryna help anyone if I can 😊 and yeah I figured, sorry, wasn't trying to create any fear or anything
winged adder
halcyon flame
alot of the servers im in has put up notices to stay out of public worlds so im really confused rn and ive got a few friends who are scared to go to publics
ruby needle
These kind of rumors have been going around since ages. And it's not how that works.
Dont worry. 
stable folio
Honestly, I'd stay away from public world's until ithe updates get flushed away. New updates always cause trouble for users it seems.
halcyon flame
so it is safe to just derp around in public worlds?
stable folio
You can try but if you're actually scared just enable two factor authentication.
desert stratus
its always both shittier and safer than it seems to fuck around in public worlds
cosmic pagoda
Accuse vrchat of a lot but they'll announce if they scuff security. there'd of been an update by now if it was bad.
vocal shard
I appreciate yall bein sensible about this 🙏
halcyon flame
well i wasnt too sure because ive only just found out and i thought it was still early
toxic pasture
The way people can steal your ip is when you connect to a world with a video player. You ping the https and you get the ls of it all. Don't go to Video rooms is all.
tight hemlock
bro u can watch movies in vr?
desert stratus
@tight hemlock fuck yeah duud
winged adder
@tight hemlock there's worlds where you can, yes. movies, and/or anime shows.
and anime movies!
tight hemlock
that shit is crazy
winged adder
one i think called "area 13" ? has a bunch of movies in their theater
desert stratus
ive watched multiple movies in vr while shooting the shit with friends its great
unborn sorrel
@ruby needle you do realise you being a chat mod means you represent the team right
Saying that everything is the fault of the community isn’t a good look for vrc
trail cloud
@empty cliff hey ,it's been a while 
desert stratus
to be fair i can go off both about actual bad shit the devs have done before and the consistent / constant fucking problems with the community
toxic pasture
Let's not do that and try to fix problems instead of break people down. Remember, everyone is a person.
desert stratus
like literally ive spent probably 25% of my messages in this chat ranting about how 80% of the optimization problems in this game fall on world and public avatar creators
unborn sorrel
Both sides have issues I agree
vocal shard
sup
toxic pasture
My d||uc||k
desert stratus
ever since the dreaded quest update the dev team seems to actually be stepping increasingly towards an actual good direction so at some point the community is going to have to catch up, though
vocal shard
dumbass
I just heard some shit that people can steal peoples account with avatar 3.0 is this true
EDIT:
I feel fake news surely vrchat devs won't allow this to pass
me 2
ruby needle
This kind of rumor goes around every now and then. It is not true.
desert stratus
it's not according to fpaul and even if it was there's already easier and better ways that people can steal your account (that are also still being patched out)
toxic pasture
I just heard some shit that people can steal peoples account with avatar 3.0 is this true
EDIT:
I feel fake news surely vrchat devs won't allow this to pass
@vocal shard This has been possible since 2.0 with steam api
vocal shard
ikr
worn prism
Its so cute how easy ppl can steal ppl shit without consent or knowledge.
Annyoing to deal with but whatever.
vocal shard
but now more rellevant
desert stratus
if youre that concerned enable 2factor authentication and review basic fucking netiquette
vocal shard
@vocal shard This has been possible since 2.0 with steam api
@toxic pasture yea some guy named ryu abused it
netflix and chill
worn prism
Avatar ripping can't be helped or stopped. Like.. only thing you can do is just bring awareness of the ripper in question and go on your day
toxic pasture
if youre that concerned enable 2factor authentication and review basic fucking netiquette
@desert stratus
So, get a vpn.
thorny aspen
Any game isnt safe from rippers any whos
desert stratus
that too, though at that point youre basically immortal
vocal shard
Avatar ripping can't be helped or stopped. Like.. only thing you can do is just bring awareness of the ripper in question and go on your day
@worn prism I will never understand why would someone ruin someone's lively hood like that
toxic pasture
No you're not, packet injections can- Let's not go there.
worn prism
@vocal shard Me either.. Couple of my friends just dealed with a person stealling from their worlds... IMAGINE ripping WORLDs and reuploading them for your own benefit.
desert stratus
yeah lol at that point youre getting into deep shit
vocal shard
damn thats crazy
worn prism
Yee he's in this server funny thing but nothing can be done
vocal shard
thats depp video game shit
toxic pasture
@worn prism I will never understand why would someone ruin someone's lively hood like that
@vocal shard
How are you ruining a lively hood? You're choosing to use a platform that's not yours to make money and at the same time are making assets for a game that isn't yours. This is like worlds.com. To me, this game is a place to test your models from games you're already working on.
pearl spear
Chicken strips
toxic pasture
Bet most of those funds don't even get posted to the irs.
pastel tartan
Yum
vocal shard
i am eating them rn XD
pearl spear
k
proper adder
I heard people are using the debug tools to grab accounts from others
vocal shard
avitar the last air bender
reef dawn
You're choosing to use a platform that's not yours to make money
patreon, onlyfans, and every crowdfunding platform have entered the chat
worn prism
@proper adder yeee it's a disgusting new bug
stable folio
IDK for some people they just want some parts of a model.
vocal shard
thiccc
ruby needle
@worn prism @proper adder It's a circling rumor that is not true.
worn prism
In other words the usual fearmongering
ruby needle
Correct
The timing is likely to try to archivea "rollback" or similar
People will always try all means.
(But this fearmongering isn't new in general tho, happens from time to time.)
toxic pasture
-
Original content is original only for a few seconds before getting old.
-
Copy 'n paste is made to ruin every last bit of originality.
-
Copy 'n paste is made to ruin every last bit of originality.
-
Every repost is always a repost of a repost.
-
Relation to the original topic decreases with every single post.
-
Any topic can be turned into something totally unrelated.
-
Always question a person's gender - just in case it's really a man.
-
On the internet, all girls are men, and all kids are undercover FBI agents or Justice Decoys.
-
There are NO girls on the internet.
proper adder
I mean, vrchat still doesnt know how to encrypt avatar/world data, making it easy to RIP the files from others so its believable that a bug like that exist
ruby needle
ripping doesnt stop with encrypting
because your client will always have the key
else it's not able to use the files
toxic pasture
Just drop an embedded png with a trojan in with it disabled and let them rip it. See what happens.
ruby needle
Protecting against ripping is only truely possibly by rending the game on a remote server controlled by the company, and just sending over the video
that is the only way to fully protect the data
proper adder
ChilloutVR was able to do it 👀
twin fractal
Kagger911 lol
ruby needle
Just because it's new and there are no tool's / routines available yet does not make it absolutely safe.
Not even high profile console games are safe, despite not even beeing available on PC.
People have been reverse engineering shit for ages, and especially common engines like Unity are more easily broken due to knowing the inner workings.
twin fractal
there's not a single game where you can't rip lol what are you talking about
you're telling me I have to download all assets on my computer and there's no way for me to keep them? lol
ruby needle
In the end, the loophole for things like encrypted data is, your client always needs to know the decryption key because else it can not use the data and thus not load worlds or avatars
steep fulcrum
Not wrong any game you can even moble games
stable folio
Just stop caring about your avatars being ripped, E-Z
proper adder
Encryptions are usually done serverside and the data is stored is fragmented peices in the cache.
ruby needle
yet your client will need to fully assemble it in ram to be able to display it
and voila, you can dump it from there
proper adder
Actually not really
It'll still be fragmented, then if you tried to dump it, all the data woll eb staored in hundred of folders containing just hex codes
indigo fern
Just ninjarip it 4skin
ruby needle
we're not talking about the stored data files in the cache
we talk about the assembled data in ram
small wing
You can get models straight through dx9
ruby needle
If the engine is able to assemble the data (which is has to be else you can not use the data) then you can always either directly dump it, or make a tool that replicates the process.
Even if you do not cache any thing and just straight load it to ram on demand, the ram will have to hold the dataset because else your game cannot use the date
Wether or not the data is encrypted in ram is also only a extra hop to do, because if it's encrypted in ram, the key is somewhere else because once again, if the client doesn't know how to reconstruct the data, it cannot use it for the game. (which it has to do.)
small wing
Its almost like it takes more effort to rip than it would to actually remake the model itself. 
old veldt
Idk why we cant just rollback 3.0
ruby needle
Why... should we?
old veldt
I haven't met a single person that has liked it, steam reviews are going down, Ive talked to over 200 people yesterday in public worlds explaining to them how to go back to legacy FBT lmfao
lime burrow
agreeable
ruby needle
@old veldt but legaxy is an option you can enable, so why would it need to be rolled back if that is the problem?
stable folio
I never understood why vrchat seems to release updates on like a Thursday or Friday night. Never like a Monday so people can acclimate over the week and plan for any odd bugs
thorny aspen
Using the debug menu to hack accounts is a thing to now
rotund axle
It's not just the only problem though, it's broken everything,
lime burrow
i heard about that in a discord server
rough pulsar
the problem is if legacy calibration is ditched before the new one is properly fixed, or the inherent usability issues are properly addressed.
high tiger
+1 for the legacy mode here; i dont like having to guess for the leg tracker positions; and often when in larger skirtted avatars; its tedious to try and get position correct. As long as this option exists; it will be utilized here.
i hope in the end that we get a option to change the radial menu keybind as a update, as well.
small wing
@ruby needle Does that legacy option fix the new locomotion too? Because i genuinely cannot play with the new setup, i keep getting very intrusive clipping with avatar's necks in my view when walking.
ruby needle
@small wing afaik it's only the calibration thingy
rough pulsar
@lunar knoll If you want accurate foot calibration doing it blind is always going to be guesswork
small wing
Having sensitive eyes with this update pretty much keeps me from playing.
rough pulsar
Yes really
stable folio
Yeah I agree with gallium. The balls are critical to accurate calibration
small wing
Albeit, i'm the 1%. So I don't expect it to change. Probably going to stay on desktop til its fixed.
rough pulsar
Both times the method where the avatar is head locked have been majorly disliked, this is just the first time it hit release.
indigo fern
I've met plenty who like it, I like it too
There might just be a vocal minority but who can say
rough pulsar
The problem is without a mirror it's literally impossible to see your tracker balls so you can never get that initial proprioceptive feel for where your feet need to be, not to mention that sense is significantly less accurate than sight.
desert stratus
the reason why the balsl are no longer present is because the best way to calibrate isnt actually to do it carefully and part-by-part but literally just fucking tpose and do it in under a second
small wing
@rough pulsar I suppose there could be a system in place similar to how LIV does it?
indigo fern
The mirror thing is indeed a problem, but I always had to calibrate in front of a mirror
raw plaza
No the best way is to see trackers to make sure your trackers arent misaligned
high tiger
@lunar knoll > Nevermind the tracker drift i suppose or missalignment.
rough pulsar
@lunar knoll Do not tell me what my experience is or isn't. Ever.
stable folio
Seriously, why wouldn't you want the balla visible?
desert stratus
trying to actually make sure everything lines up 100% will just end in you contorting your body to a shape it isnt naturally in, and itll show through calibration. it makes more sense from every perspective to literally just tpose in a natural way along with the avatar, stuff will line up and deform naturally and the new calibration system makes this easier since if your avatar is bound to your head everything will line up automatically for you
uneven pond
Ate people still mad?
indigo fern
Yea the trackballs need to stop disappearing when changing height, that's always been annoying
raw plaza
Anyone who has used full body for more than a day will notice trackers arent always aligned properly
small wing
@uneven pond since the dawn of time, baby. 👍
desert stratus
if youre taking longer than one second to calibrate your avatar you should probably reevaulate whatever youre doing, this was true before and after the update
stable folio
Sometimes for certain avatars you have to calibrate specially
desert stratus
even for certain avatars the logic that benefits one second natural calibration still applies
stable folio
But that's wrong lol
raw plaza
If you re-orient yourself irl you can fix the tracker drift/misalignment, but you need to see where the tracker balls are to do it
stable folio
I would think it would make the best sense to just allow it to be toggleable for the balls to be visible. If people want them it can be a feature for them. I don't get the whole hubbub in why removing them is good. I just can't buy it.
desert stratus
you probably have a variety of avatars that use proportions that aren't 100% to your actual ones. if you try to match those proportions exact with your actual proportions youre going to end up with unnatrual behavior. it makes more sense to line up your actual and rig proportions along a common shape (say a tpose) than to force yourself into one that doesnt reflect how you actually move
stable folio
But maybe I'm forgetting what game I'm talking about. Good options is never one of VRChats strong suits.
indigo fern
Wot
frosty veldt
Well if the tracker balls arnt accurate then the feet wont be accurate. Its not rocket science
indigo fern
Are you using the same avatar or something, because when changing avatars with different heights/proportions you 100% need to place them at least somewhat properly
raw plaza
Its fine when the trackers arent misaligned. But when they're say shifted 6 inches to the left or right and suddenly your foot is now air next to your avatars foot
spice pewter
So a friend told me that the latest update caused a thing where people can get their account information hacked i would like to get some clarity
indigo fern
What are you on about lmao, saying tracker balls are placebo is literally a lie
stable folio
I never said it's factual but it's an assist. You don't need it, correct. Just like you don't need power steering. It's an assist. But you sure as heck wouldn't buy a car without power steering would you?
rough pulsar
That's the other issue, certain positional variances cause incresingly severe pivot problems.
raw plaza
Which can be fixed by turning like 90 degrees when tposing, but its impossible to catch pre-emptively without balls
desert stratus
like with the new calibration you dont even need to worry about making sure youre actually aligned irl anymore unless youre using kinect. just stand straight and forward and tpose, your head will move into place and everything else will line up instantly. and no i use many different avatars with different proportions regularly
vocal shard
Fear mongering rumors. Likely started to try forcing a rollback. This kind of thing spreads every major update @spice pewter
spice pewter
ok
magic jasper
hallo
desert stratus
like even if for whatever reason i wanted to use legacy calibration id still be doing it the exact same way
spice pewter
Making sure as i want to be safe @vocal shard
viral hill
little calibration trick if you don't want to change to legacy, when you press calibrate and t-pose, go into your menu and open settings or any menu tab, this will keep the avatar from rotating or moving left/right so you can better place your feet, but it will still move up and down
cosmic pagoda
So is it like your job for a day after an update to just say no, accounts aren't compromised
hollow hawk
@lunar knoll it may not be so much people absolutely need to see the tracker balls just on their own, but people want to see them relative to the avatar's hips/legs/feet so they can get a feel for if the calibration will be "right." I used oculus hybrid and the tracker balls would be shifted, but i would still need to see them relative to the avatar's hips/legs and my irl hips/legs to get a good calibration.
magic jasper
brain damage
stable folio
Why are avatar performance stats busted reeeee
desert stratus
your friend isnt gonna get banned for criticizing the update. they likely got banned for something else
indigo fern
They were probably being snarky or a dick
cosmic pagoda
It's like groundhog's day, but it's discord
vocal shard
@vocal shard no. People don't get banned for criticising. But plenty have been outright aggressive and saying uncalled for stuff, which may lead to mod action
desert stratus
people have probably gotten warned or something else on this server thought for pasting this god awful copypasta over and over in public lobby
desert stratus
i was in desktop last night i thought it was chill
indigo fern
Fpaul sucks eggs
desert stratus
just hit r and do shit, actually now that i think about it should play desktop with a controller lol apparently you can do wack shit with one
light dust
wait whhhhattttt so i cant port my projects to sdk3 O.o u know how much time is put into some avatars leee reeeeeee
vocal shard
You still have both menus 
indigo fern
They have the new radial menu because they're completely reworking the UI
Emotes had to be moved
toxic pasture
Did they add Burst to vrchat yet?
cosmic pagoda
At least for a controller like the knuckles, this new menu is gonna be more functional for gestures
icy wyvern
Funnily enough I use an Xbox controller 50% of the time so using the radial menu is easy
desert stratus
@vocal shard not only is the actual number of things you have to do to access specifically emotes not changed (hit esc, click emotes, pick emote vs. open radial, go to gestures, click gesture. its still 3 buttons) but everything else has retained the exact same functionality radial menu be damned and that wont be patched out ever
light dust
what if i export my avatar setups and port them into sdk3?
ruby needle
you can port over things like DB settings and such
But some things will need manual setup in av 3.0 style
toxic pasture
scripts be ded?
vocal shard
How do I do gestures and avatar effects with Valve Index controllers?
desert stratus
and from a deign / avatar perspective it not only makes more sense but you will get used to it very quickly since by design its meant to be more intuitive than using the "main" menu. on top of that, the reason why the other option is gone is because that menu is going to get a massive overhaul relatively soonish
the older menu, that is, there was a dev stream about that a while ago and so far the concept art has looked swell
indigo fern
@vocal shard they are getting rid of the old UI and reworking it soon, completely new menus so they need to get ready for it
stable folio
Yes let's fix things that don't need fixing, classic vrchat. Can't they just so bug fixes instead of randomly breaking everything?
cosmic pagoda
I haven't had a chance to jump in but i think you click in the thumbstick shiki
light dust
what about shaders?
toxic pasture
The ui is terrible lol. It doens't even follow camera.
desert stratus
yall were asking for better UX in 2019, make up ur mind >u>
toxic pasture
I actually applied to do the UI. Where's my denial?!
cosmic pagoda
Change is the price of progress man. I was disappointed in losing old hub worlds but ey, ah well
thorny aspen
I havnt seen much issue with any shaders yet.
desert stratus
@toxic pasture are the devs still weird about hiring people 
stable folio
I never asked for a different ui don't pull that "y'all" stuff on me
toxic pasture
You're gonna take it, and like it.
cosmic pagoda
The community as a whole vastly was. And solar uh check their site, the career section, it'd probably list it out
stable folio
P much lmao
toxic pasture
@desert stratus I don't know man. I just want in to help.
light dust
to be honest i just want a new bind set for the menu to some thing like triple click trigger or hold trigger that would be better
viral hill
I think what people wanted from a different UI was a cleaner UI honestly
desert stratus
i hope they actually hire all those positions tho cuz ive had friends who would be good on the team get denied for positions they actually need
toxic pasture
How would you make a cleaner UI? What would you like in it?
indigo fern
This isn't the UI rework, they literally only added a radial menu, have you guys not seen the actual UI rework blog
desert stratus
yeah theyre not gonna change the UI unless its cleaner, i guess its clunky right now because the older menu is still there but itll make even more sense when that gets changed as well. right now tho as av 3.0 avatars become more common place youll see why the radial menu is god tier
toxic pasture
Nope, too busy with portfolio
desert stratus
only other thing i would ask for is a half life alyx style menu since imo that one tends to work best for vr games. actuall yi wonder if its possible to make one with av 3.0 youd still have to do cursed shit but i mean
indigo fern
They are changing the UI solar, gimme a sec I need to find link
toxic pasture
Can't really take from Valve... they eat you with dmca
desert stratus
thats just because i feel iffy about using the stick over just moving my hands into place
cosmic pagoda
You could argue valve has set industry standards in various stuff. I'm sure in good time, some of their innovations with vr will become commonplace
desert stratus
then again it does make more sense when youre doing live gestures. i can totally see myself muscle memorizing the different areas of the menu while moving my hands around. and yeah @cosmic pagoda you know damn well a lot of the shit alyx has done right as well as index is gonna start bleeding into the rest of the industry lol, its awesome
vocal shard
Why can people see my username and pw with the debug menu?
light dust
O.o
cosmic pagoda
They can't, fake news, it's fine
toxic pasture
I want to make gestures that work with triggers around a person that multi animate so you cna have more gestures than just 8
desert stratus
i think av 3.0 lets you switch gesture sets now?
thorny aspen
Yes
winged adder
vrchat just needs to talk to the real modders out there and say "will you help us make our game better?"
viral hill
the radial menu does feel weird, like the gesture lock (on index controllers so I just tapped A once) is an extra step imo
winged adder
Audio desync blocker, portal spam blocker, individual player volume, portable mirror, extra favorite avatars, room join notifier, mods to block people from doxxing you
desert stratus
real modders
yeah the vrc modding community isnt exactly of the minecraft or KSP caliber
light dust
"gesture that brings up old menu"
thorny aspen
I already mapped A button for jump so that wasnt the issue was the menu on the b button that caused me issues in fbt play space mover
winged adder
@desert stratus when i say real i mean the people making good mods, not the "we want to portal spam and crash people" ones
cosmic pagoda
It's gonna an issue for playspace
indigo fern
here, they showed UI rework on a dev update like 3 months ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/VRchat/comments/g6ewpo/vrchat_ui_update_preview_from_the_dev_stream/
desert stratus
@viral hill thats probably the only good criticsm. so much so that its been mentioned a few times last night that the devs are working on making dedicated buttons for gesture toggling on all controllers and its likely going to come in the first patch for this update
winged adder
there's modding, and then there's being a troll/dick. they're not the same thing
desert stratus
id like to meet these people making good mods, then
ruby needle
But was is good? For some things mod's implement there is reasons and statements on why they are not comming officially
winged adder
@ruby needle
Audio desync blocker, portal spam blocker, individual player volume, portable mirror, extra favorite avatars, room join notifier, mods to block people from doxxing you
toxic pasture
Which is pretty dumb as you know there will be modders since this is unity.
desert stratus
oh god i know why i felt iffy about the new UI concept art. it fucking reminds me of* From The Depths 🤮
viral hill
thats good, they should imo probably add options for the calibration system as well, that way its the best of both worlds for people who prefer old and those who prefer new
winged adder
tupper legit said they "want" to do individual player audio, and in the SAME VIDEO someone was telling him the line of code to add it.
ruby needle
individual player volume for sure should come, a portable mirror aka a camera?
Favorites are limited in amount for a reason.
unborn sorrel
What’s that reason
cosmic pagoda
16 was extra, 3 was scarce. I have used camera as a quick mirror.
winged adder
considering the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of avatars, 16 is not enough.
toxic pasture
Audio desync blocker, portal spam blocker, individual player volume, portable mirror, extra favorite avatars, room join notifier, mods to block people from doxxing you
@winged adder
There is no way to stop people from doxxing you. Also, if you doxx yourself and aren't scared of being doxxed you can't be doxxed.
desert stratus
to make sure people actually visit avatar worlds
light dust
give video
ruby needle
While it for a user is likely the interest to have as much as possible, it's for many creators the opposit
toxic pasture
Do you mean Dossing?
ruby needle
Creators do avatar worlds and wan youto visit them
Bring in new people, and promote them that way
molten orbit
Imagine if the VRChat team did what every other group of game devs did their size and asked the community about their changes.
winged adder
then make a way to find avatars
ruby needle
So it's a balance between user and creator
cosmic pagoda
Just don't revert it back to 3 and we good man
toxic pasture
Stop reverting. Move forward.
slate verge
avatar world is unique for a social game like vrchat and it will become the norm for other games
winged adder
because worlds have such random shit. I've been to a world full of egirls and seen one random anime avatar. i was like "what? how would you ever know that was here?"
light dust
the answer they would give you if they made a way to look up avatars is "then no one would get off the buts and go to new worlds and make new friend"
winged adder
No no. i mean search for avatars, by world - Like say i search "vash the stampede" it should direct me to a world with avatar named that
cosmic pagoda
The argument, as I read it, is going to avatar worlds helps promote the devs
light dust
plus friendships^
indigo fern
some people were annoyed that cloning was a thing too, because then you wouldnt have to search for their secretly placed pedestal
winged adder
basically worlds need a way to be searched in relation to what's IN them
viral hill
I don't think trashing the devs helps, its trial and error with updates, do I think the new update needs some work/revision, yes, however saying they don't talk to the community when they have a place where you can put suggestions/complaints etc. makes no sense @molten orbit
indigo fern
that being said cloning is a good feature, but god everyone is so samey
winged adder
like let's say i search under worlds for "cowboy bebop", i get the spaceship, bebop. I do NOT get worlds with cowboy bebop avatars - why not?
slate verge
@indigo fern "You faker i found you!" oh well. Its not like theres 100 gokus in the game already.
viral hill
does anyone else have the issue where when you first open your menu (world, social) nothing loads and you have to reopen again for stuff to start popping up?
indigo fern
Youre gonna love this haaaaaa
cosmic pagoda
Yeah I've had that Nez. The avatar thing, yeah the searching could be better. For now I'd say try googling worlds with em, google can lead you to places sometimes
indigo fern
searching in general is very bad, worlds work okayish just slow
searching for users just doesnt work half the time and only displays like 10 people
light dust
#brainstormhour
slate verge
they need a better ui search system though thats for sure
winged adder
also the social system is messed up. You can check where a friend is and end up going to an empty world, search them, and go to where they ACTUALLY are.. and find out they've been there for an hour. social lied.
vocal shard
New update broke all my avatars lol
indigo fern
i havent even used search in a while, have they added a paste button?
slate verge
nope
cosmic pagoda
They do have a few slots for saved searches though.
indigo fern
man, now thats something we really need, especially to make it easier for vr to play video links
cosmic pagoda
There's a lag with your social tab, friends moving to a dif world, and it doesn't update so you visit their previous world
winged adder
that's what i just said, mika
desert stratus
i just use oculus keyboard to paste
cosmic pagoda
Right and I'm affirming it. You can uh, paste in video urls
indigo fern
oculus flex ;-;
light dust
ᵗʰᵉʸ ⁿᵉᵉᵈ ᵃ ʷᵒʳˡᵈ ᵈᵉᵗᵃᶦˡ'ˢ ᵇᵘᵗᵗᵒⁿ
desert stratus
im not allowed to flex lol i think any virtual keyboard and desktop works as long as you can access the vrc window and hit ctrl+v
indigo fern
you are, oculus dashboard is so much better than steams old one
cosmic pagoda
If you have it selected, you can manually ctrl v a video url in. It could in theory be nicer if it didn't require a keyboard
slate verge
did you know you can still use pc desktop features with vr mode?
desert stratus
didnt someone make a better overlay for steamvr now?
cosmic pagoda
I didn't for some time
unborn sorrel
Another thing. A lot of people don’t like the idea of having a model match your actual body proportions
indigo fern
mhm, im a lil far from pc usually but i usually just go over to it
desert stratus
wait that costs money it doesnt count. still tho i reember seeingthatt on twitter and going "fuck that looks good"
indigo fern
it works ye and its still ez, but like, paste button sounds gud in theory you know
oh you mean that ovrtoolkit thing?
desert stratus
i think it was xs overlay?
indigo fern
oh, i dunno there are a bunch of those overlay things lmao
viral hill
@unborn sorrel everyone wants an avatar that matches body proportions, the problem is, everyone's proportions are different, and most people do not make their own avatars. (Either bought or from worlds)
tacit plank
ik location is out of sync when sitting, is playspacemover to blame?
cosmic pagoda
I dunno, it's interesting to jump into small and large avatars
winter sierra
Mods we have people sending out chain messages that are saying Avatar 3.0 is a mistake and people can hack your account, etc.
trim oracle
any word on bringing back knuckles dedicated gesture toggle button?
candid acorn
maybe this is just me, but i could swear that with the new update, my head vibrates when i talk
final vale
Anyone got an avatar with a frying pan and a gesture to make a hit sound like the one from tf2 ? Dm me if you do
candid acorn
also bote, the issue with doing fixes before calibrating is that with the avatar not being locked in place before calibration, height adjustment no longer works. it moves the entire avatar up with you. same for playspace changes
all I find use for height adjustment now is making sure I'm not floating off the ground. or clipping through it
indigo fern
when you mess with height the avatar moves up/down but the tracker balls stay in the same spot, its hard to see because they disappear
thorny aspen
Allways hate that they disapeard
indigo fern
ez calibration with the new way is just place the feet balls slightly above the ground and change height till your avatar is also on the ground
thorny aspen
Which i dont have that luxray since it still thinks my play space isnt zero
indigo fern
you use some kind of playspace mover? if advanced settings should be an option to zero yourself out
thorny aspen
So what they change on veiwball position?
indigo fern
nothing, if you had it right before then youre fine
thorny aspen
Dose it have to be far in the head outside head?
indigo fern
no its supposed to be slightly or entirely inside your head
usually no further than bridge of nose
indigo fern
in fbt your head is locked to your headset now, so you dont have to calibrate for it or even move into it anymore
so theres 0 drift when laying down now or just moving in general
vocal shard
This game just breaks and breaks and breaks lol
ruby needle
Not really.
indigo fern
if its avatar related either the bug where all avatars are set to male and legs go inward or they had fullbody jank from old workarounds
grim canopy
Lol Tupper
vocal shard
Also security is bad too
grim canopy
Lol 😂
delicate bluff
Eh
ruby needle
@vocal shard If you mean that Debug menu rumor (which is infact a rumor) thats just a not true rumor.
grim canopy
Paul
vocal shard
What debug rumour
grim canopy
When was the last time we chilled together in vrchat?
ruby needle
We haven't "chilled" together. You where at a community meetup when i was there like a few times that's it.
And that was a while ago, dont ask me how long.
vocal shard
And why is client still a thing thought that was gonna come to a end lol
ruby needle
It's fine 
You have your ways and have your friend's too.
There is many people in this game, can't hang out with everyone.
grim canopy
Well Paul I want to chill with you and if anyone else does as well
delicate bluff
Wait, so you can't use sdk 2 anymore?
ruby burrow
Gotta love the traditional community freakout. Is like clockwork every time.
indigo fern
ah squishy here to watch the fires
ruby burrow
Just sat through an hour long vocal rant from a friend, who had gotten all hyped up and stressed over hearing complaints from others, expecting he was going to have to remake all his avatars etc, assuming the worst.
He then gets in game whilst screen sharing, and tone quickly changes when experiencing none of these problems. The new FBT calibration method actually fixed an issue he'd long been struggling with.
echo sigil
That's twice now I've had someone join my friends+ world and crash me with an avatar with my safety on. We REALLY need this fixed. I've seen people selling them. They crash you through most safety
ruby burrow
He then went to visit the Av3.0 Hub world, with the example avatars, and got really excited about the new potential avatar features that are possible.
echo sigil
Yeah the new update isn't actually that bad. Once I learned I could disable the mic button I was happy
ruby burrow
Mob mentality resorts to rumour mills and negativity far too easily.
grim tusk
cancel culture has entered the chat
thorny aspen
Well soon as i cam use my avatar with longer legs id be happier but still cant will have to stick with the preportional ones
echo sigil
They need to fix the crashing through safety with avatars. It's getting annoying. People just join my friends+, sit there for 3 mins waiting to load on everyone's screen and then crashes
I can only assume one of my friends added them. Idek why
vocal shard
just spent all day smashing my head against unity all day trying to work out how to use avatar creation 3.0 and ended up giving up and using 2.0 instead
ruby burrow
Clients are an ongoing issue sadly. There was supposed to be some kind of network changes in the pipeline that would help neuter them, but doesn't seem to have happened yet.
echo sigil
It isn't even clients. It's their avatar. It bypasses safety
thorny aspen
Ah spawn particles i forget thats a thing
indigo fern
oh yea sometimes safety is a little wonky, like people have had sound come through
ruby burrow
For the time being I simply remain cautious and lean away from anyone that gives hints of any connection to edgy crasher culture.
indigo fern
did you guys see the download limiter, thats actually a godsend for me
echo sigil
I know because their shaders are hidden and yet it still plays an animation when it crashes. I just had a spring trap make my screen go black with a fnaf sound and gone
thorny aspen
What dose it do n8
indigo fern
you can now hide avatars above a certain filesize
like those avatars that have like 10 songs on it and are 50mb
echo sigil
I love the new limiter! My internet can't take tons of avatars loading
indigo fern
yes, especially since it always seems to download other peoples avatar before mine when i switch
thorny aspen
Ah finally by my friends
ruby burrow
There are many methods to crash that don't rely on shaders.
echo sigil
My only wish, is that they make it so clicking show avatar bypasses it
ruby burrow
I once accidentally crashed myself with nothing but a badly design rigid body.
indigo fern
the default is at fuckin 200mb though lmao, make sure to lower it to something reasonable
echo sigil
I know the crash methods. Shader, particle, bone collision, client, etc
ruby burrow
Some kind of physics feedback loop.
thorny aspen
Where is the option though i would love it
pseudo basalt
Anything that can overload your game can crash you
echo sigil
Safety, performance
indigo fern
its under safety in the top right where the dynabone limiter is
thorny aspen
Oh so they stuck it there goood
indigo fern
yea, i think after the fuck up with particle limiter they actually want the limiters in game
which still isnt ingame but besides the point
restive wedge
huh
ruby burrow
Basically if you can see an avatar even with everything else turned off, crashing is still possible. Far far less likely, but possible.
echo sigil
yep
indigo fern
download limit can be adjusted in game too, dynabone cant still
ruby burrow
They'll hopefully fix that stuff, the ability to edit limits from inside the game, when they get the new UI system out.
For the time being adding features to their current UI is like trying to chisel stuff into stone using a plastic spoon. It resists change.
thorny aspen
Yeh i want to limit only certin people for dynamics still
indigo fern
ah yea, that would be nice
thorny aspen
Well now since i can block downloads i can load intoa world and not die
indigo fern
have your friends listed on a sheet of paper and you have to traverse the game to find them
thorny aspen
Still thunk saftey settings should be placed in loading a world so you can block things vefore you get there
vocal shard
bro is there a way to make fullbody normal again
ruby burrow
"Like real life" :x
indigo fern
i always have a hud irl, its my glasses, stupid border around my screen
frosty veldt
its cinematic
indigo fern
i'll make you cinematic in a sec
ruby burrow
In IRL I can barely see past my nose. In VRC I can zoom my vision like a buzzard and gain x-ray vision.
I'm looking forward to figuring out some of the Av3.0 stuff and updating my stuff to work more smoothly and with new features.
Should now be able to apply any shader to my vision whilst keeping it local, so it won't look crazy to others.
thorny aspen
Would like to test the toggle walking so i can do neet things
indigo fern
yea one of the pedestals in the av3 test hub has one where you can switch from a walk to hover anim
thorny aspen
Im a robot that hovers already o3o
ruby burrow
I need that for my Mo-ped avatar.
indigo fern
damn, have like a slider to do a wheelie
ruby burrow
Lol.
winter sierra
I wish they were adding a feature that the hitboxes are changing when players are crouching / proning. It will add more possibilities in making worlds and avatars
thorny aspen
So how about cache sislze i go to lots of worlds i hate that i die after 21gb
ruby burrow
Yeah, that'd be really nice. Would love to see some improved hitboxes.
pseudo basalt
You can probably already do that with udon
Can't you scale down the capsule height based on eye level
winter sierra
Oh I didn't know that. I don't use Udon yet because its too new to me so I will stick with sdk2 for a while
pseudo basalt
though would be nice by default
ruby burrow
Mhmm. But as a more integrated feature, would be cool. Not sure exactly how it should be designed though.
tough yarrow
sooooo vrchat is safe?
winter sierra
@tough yarrow Yes its safe. those are fake rumours (about the debug rumour)
indigo fern
yea, udon would mean it being on the world makers to do list and not just automatic
ruby burrow
You wouldn't want to end up making all tall avatars end up getting stuck in most worlds.
sterile grove
@vocal shard i got a question do you mind if i DM? it's regarding the menu stuff
winter sierra
No but what if we still had default hitboxes (human sized) and when you go crouching / proning, it goes smaller?
vocal shard
jamie is camping,best not disturb him @sterile grove
sterile grove
tru, don't need the bears to come to the camp
winter sierra
the only problem is going to be the ceiling detection (if there is something above the player head then they can't stand up)
ruby burrow
That'd be doable, but might still cause issues, and is a little unreasonable to force people to crouch. I suppose one argument there is "just don't be so tall 4 head" but wouldn't be popular.
winter sierra
I would actually like to make worlds that you can crawl through ventilation or something like that
ruby burrow
Yeah, I would love to see that.
winter sierra
but I know there are ways to do that
thorny aspen
Udon should support that wouldnt it with scripting ?
winter sierra
I have big plans on working on a horror game that actually is fun and scary to play
thorny aspen
But ima woosy i dont like scares ;-;
ruby burrow
I always had this silly idea of creating a loli bar world, or something, which would have every aspect of it downscaled to match smaller avatars, with a shader in the ceiling that blacked out the view of anyone too tall. But that'd be a novelty world idea. Different thing to a standardised hitbox system.
winter sierra
I mean you dont need to make shader for that. You can use post processing volume for that
umbral reef
Could also maybe do it with some shader stuff or something
thorny aspen
There is a world like that squishy that blacks screens out if your to tall
umbral reef
Like honest to god im fairly sure literally everything can be done with just some complex shader coding by now
ruby burrow
Either would work. I already have a perfect shader for the job which could just be applied to some cubes, so that's where my mind went first.
thorny aspen
Granted think its udon and is japenese named
desert stratus
the real power is in complex shader coding
umbral reef
Bruh its pure wizardy
desert stratus
you dont need udon or av3, just run your gray matter through a sieve and write up a shader to do stuff for you /s
ruby burrow
I'm waiting for them to develop a shader that cures cancer. Is bound to happen sooner or later.
umbral reef
The most modern tech has less impact on me then some shaders
ruby burrow
Particle stuff and fancy animator tricks are wizardry.
Shaders are pure black magic.
umbral reef
Id unironically rather build a car from nothing then make some of the shaders i have seen ingame...
Would be way easier
desert stratus
same
ruby burrow
You do have to love how the limitations of VR-Chat have driven some hilarious and impressive levels of innovation.
People finding ways to do things in the most roundabout methods.
desert stratus
using shaders to do cursed shit like the hand holding shader is like trigger redstone mechanics dialed up to 10 id imagine
yeah, for a loooong time this game felt like an experiment and so content development reflected that. nice to see that things are finally changing for the better but im lowkey gonna miss some of the buggy hacks
umbral reef
Bruh you got full minecraft style block placing with multiple blocks shaders
Or the shader world where you could also play minecraft
Thats like almost illegal you know
desert stratus
like they were almost an art form in navigating the glorious days of the 5.6 sdk
ruby burrow
The button menu from VR-Labs is a literal Rube Goldberg Machine of ridiculous layered exploits and obscure tricks that no one would ever have any reason to develop anywhere else.
indigo fern
rero and lin are galaxy brains
tough yarrow
sooo will there be any tweaks to the way full body is calibrated?
indigo fern
and who ever else is in the vrlab team
desert stratus
yeah mad respect to all asset and shader devs like holy shit. and @tough yarrow you can set a flag in steamvr launch options to use legacy FBT, check announcements for more info
manic rune
Broken update if you ask me, they need to put back Rift S bindings where they were and only make it that the radial menu is accesible tru long Pressing Menus buttons only.
desert stratus
--legacy-fbt-calibrate @tough yarrow
ruby burrow
I'm curious to see how opinion on the FBT calibration goes in the long term.
tough yarrow
Ahh thanks
flat oyster
Sooo earlier I started vrc and it is now in a login loop. Even after I reinstalled the game completely including the folders in appdata it still logged me in on my account in the same loop. Could anyone help me with this?
desert stratus
im standing by the fact that n ew calibration makes the proper way youre supposed to calibrate literally effortless
@flat oyster id say give it a while, the servers might still be stressing themselves over the update as people are logging in and out, it happens.
vocal shard
the new calibration suck though
indigo fern
yea new calibration is gud for me, the only thing i have to do is adjust height and done
ruby burrow
The viewpoint finally being flawless is very nice. The rest of the lock in a little more awkward. Some people have been having more issues than others, likely down to avatar rig.
languid beacon
Cancer is probably already solved in some GitHub repository and no one paid attention
vocal shard
glad the legacy calibration was a feature
indigo fern
eyeballing head placement o7
desert stratus
someone probably figured out cold fusion in a github repo
ruby burrow
I guess it also highly depends on whether people are making their own avatars or using public.
languid beacon
I like the new calibration much better
thorny aspen
I woyld like to manualy place my fee and hands
desert stratus
vrc asset devs are scary
indigo fern
you dont have to place your hands and never had to
thorny aspen
Well i mean i would like to so o can have long legged avis
indigo fern
they always just jump to your controllers placement, thats why it pulls your chest sometimes when the arms are too short
ruby burrow
A lot of people still resort to inaccurate player height and playspace adjustments as standard when locking in. So much hassle.
I used to do that before making my personal FBT avatar, but never needed to since. Load, lock, go.
lost hazel
Rotation and movement still triggering handgestures on vive wands?
desert stratus
tbh im giving up on trying to hit exact human proportions lol
its not a big deal to me and doesnt look good on most anime style avatars. ill try again when im good on the art side and can handle mixing realistic proportions with anime proportions, tho
ruby burrow
You need to think about what that would actually mean and how it would work though Eenhoorn.
The game can't magically warp you into a new shape. It needs to take the current position of your trackers against the avatar as a reference point to position and rotate around.
There's no such thing as simply placing a tracker manually.
desert stratus
the whole point of how fbt calibration works is that you can get away with having proportions off if you can live with your floor being miles away
so its not a large deal to me atm
indigo fern
yea lmao, i have too many different avatars that i dont use to be perfectly my size
solar lotus
i have an anime avatar that's like
almost perfect except the head
ruby burrow
I've got my avatar plenty close enough to human for it to work well. Aiming for perfection is a bad idea generally.
desert stratus
@solar lotus i need to redo the head and shoulders on one of my bases and itll basically be flawless
hollow swift
Does someone know a anime avatar server?pls help
solar lotus
ooh niice!
desert stratus
the shoulders are too bulky and the head is too off. the rest of it is perfect, though
languid beacon
I don’t think avatars need to really be tailor made to you specifically. They just need to be halfway realistically proportioned and then they work for pretty much everyone. If a full body avatar is a good fit for one person it’s a good fit for most people. People don’t vary all that much in terms of ratios.
ruby burrow
My trackers come out very slightly above the feet, but are plenty close enough to provide good ankle rotation without too much knee jitter.
Arms could be a bit better, but in general it's in a good spot. Right balance of functionality vs art style.
desert stratus
yeah dont like break proportional laws egregiously. you can stretch wingspan ratios but if u start messing with joint ratios then thats some fucky shit lol
languid beacon
Shoulders are always the biggest issue. That’s almost exclusively tied to view position. You need to line up your shoulders, or be able to look out of your eyes. Some avatars with huge heads can’t have both at once.
ruby burrow
The entire process of fitting a human body to a virtual one, and trying to track it in a believable way, is honestly quite a nuanced thing. Can be tricky to get your head around.
languid beacon
I think of big headed avatars like a football mascot. They look out of the mouth hole becasue the shoulders need to line up.
indigo fern
oh man, big head avatars are always a pain, i think i need to move my viewball in my mouth for one of em
languid beacon
Hi5
ruby burrow
I'd love to see some kind of application that used camera based tracking to project a direct version of yourself into VR, overlayed with an avatar.
Would be really helpful for visualising what's going on, and helping people grasp the challenges involved.
languid beacon
Quest can almost do that when you are on the edge of your guardian it fades based on proximity
So your avatar fades into your real view lol
ruby burrow
Heh. Hmm.
I made this crude picture guide in the past, to try and help people understand why the floor height/slit walking issue is the way it is in VR-Chat.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/601891883895095303/741390840303452260/VR-Chat_player_scale_copy.jpg
But would be so much easier and more intuitive if could see it directly in person.
languid beacon
That’s a good visualization
indigo fern
wait what do you mean squishy? i am donkey kong proportions
languid beacon
I’m saving that for any time someone asks why the floor doesn’t match
thorny aspen
Shouldertracking lennyface
ruby burrow
I drew it up after a lengthy discussion with someone who was confused about how to correctly adjust an avatar proportions, having spent hours making bizarre and unsuccessful changes to their avatar.
indigo fern
theres plenty of fbt changes people just dont know sometimes
desert stratus
i remember when i had rig problems for hours an dsomeone told me that if youre just cold swapping the .fbx you need to redo the animation config in unity or it wont accept hte new values
i kinda died inside right then and there lmao
ruby burrow
They'd been doing weird stuff like stretching out their torso to unnatural lengths, whilst ending up with stub like legs, and were cursing and confounded about why their trackers hadn't shifted an inch. (Because their wingspan to height ratio was still the same.)
They'd also been testing all of these changes with their in-game player height some 6 or 8 inches off from their real height, because everyone had told them to do that. It was just layers of confusion compounding one another.
languid beacon
It is a weird to understand system if you don’t see know how it works. I know it’s based on wingspan now but back when I was figuring all this out I actually learned it from constant testing
No one told me
indigo fern
and some other things cause jank too which doesnt help
ruby burrow
Yeah. I had similar issues when I first started. Learning the wingspan to height ratio rule, was the breakthrough I needed.
indigo fern
like if your hip bone is too far forward or back from your upper leg, or some models just have huge chest bones which gets wonky
ruby burrow
Til then had kept shortening my legs whilst scaling the avatar back up, and wondering why the tracker positions barely shifted.
desert stratus
i just always go with the updated fbt template rig
you can literally just move some stuff around and it works every time
indigo fern
yea a lot of times its small changes like that, but without someone telling them theyd have like no idea
ruby burrow
Template Rig?
indigo fern
especially now since theres no need for that jank neck fix
ruby burrow
Where can I find that? I was talking to someone just a moment ago who was crying out for such a template. xD
indigo fern
and the fact that you can use upper chest now with no downsides
desert stratus
@ruby burrow forgot where it was in the sdk files but theres something called tpose-new.fbx or something
languid beacon
No need for neck jank AND upper chest works without downsides
desert stratus
its not the blue guy its a newer rig that was made when major FBT changes started rolling out between 2019 and 2020
indigo fern
hey stop stealing my words
languid beacon
Lol oops
gilded spade
how do you jump now?
languid beacon
A. You can change it on the steam version
gilded spade
A? like the A button?
ruby burrow
My avatar is still using that old neck fix so far. Never had any direct problems from using it, so never reverted it, but might now.
gilded spade
might make spamming jump much easier
indigo fern
save a copy so you can get funky when you need to
ruby burrow
Always resulted in the overly energetic shoulders before, but was never too severe on my avatar. Sort of had it's own charm in a way, so was easy enough to live with.
I did make sure to keep my old vertex groups though. Rather than deleting them like the tutorial instructed, I just renamed them.
Should be simple to swap the names back and extend the bone up again.
marsh stump
Why is vrchat storing cache files on my C:/ drive, imo it should be storing them on the same drive that the game files are on, which is my game drive
languid beacon
It will store them wherever you have windows set to store appdata
plush bison
Lil upset that the update kinda scuffed the controls
marsh stump
ofc it does. argh
yeah this update kinda borked my avatar all it did was make the legs cross weird when idling
plush bison
Can we request a rollback on some features? Or at the very least be able to toggle which features we liked lol
marsh stump
^
umbral reef
What if they say no?.
plush bison
the quick menu is sooooo annoying
languid beacon
It’s more that avatars that were made improperly were working correctly. There’s no way VRChat can fix them without sacrificing the reason why they broke them. Creators just have to fix them and reupload
umbral reef
@languid beacon I dont want to make my avatar properly though and want to use the botched version that used 200 work arounds because i had no idea what i was doing when i uploaded it >:C
plush bison
tbh i have an a hybrid FBT setup, with WMR and vive trackers. Which already is a scuffed way of FB. And why break something that didnt really have an issue. I think it was just an unnecessary change
marsh stump
he has a point, they fixed something that was working just fine
languid beacon
It wasn’t though
plush bison
ofc I can still open via legacy calibration but that doesnt change the fact that it scuffed my fav models that will most likely never be touched again because of their age
languid beacon
For example, the reason many avatars cross their legs now, is because leg bending direction is now based on bone roll rather than the way the Armature is bent, that means you no longer have to bend your legs slightly to get them to point in the right direction just have the bone roll pointing in the correct direction as defined in the specifications. Of course a lot of avatars didn’t do that so now they cross their legs.
plush bison
now I cant even get a proper view point and the team is basically forcing me to learn how to create my own and risk it getting ripped from me because of the amount of skids
ruby burrow
I guess it's always going to be a problem in a platform based around user generated content the way VR-Chat is.
For some people, things like the radial action menu is an awesome new feature with crazy amounts of potential for improving what avatars can be and do.
But for the majority of users relying on public avatars, they load in and just see this seemingly redundant new way of accessing the same old eight emotes we used to be limited to.
desert stratus
hot take
indigo fern
oh, no adeon the cross leg thing is actually a bug, theyre set to male
https://discordapp.com/channels/189511567539306508/189511567539306508/741157608991359087
plush bison
the quick menu is cool dont get me wrong but I dont want to use it, its forced upon me and it interferes with my controllers
uneven pond
All yall compensating for slow mode by writing entire paragraphs
languid beacon
I stand corrected
marsh stump
So the broken legs was not supposed to happen then
indigo fern
fix coming soon, thats one of the only actually issues with the update
desert stratus
updates that are mostly significant to a certain part of the community (whether the community or content creation side) should be more receptive to feedback from that part of the community
languid beacon
Weird all male avatars? Mine didn’t do it
indigo fern
no, like it set all avatars to male, like the ones that are supposed to be female
ruby burrow
I usually write more than most.
marsh stump
Didn't know avatars had a gender too....learn something new every day ig
somber rain
My avatar which worked fine with male animations before the update now also has weird legs
winged adder
Adeon, how do you change the jump from A?
languid beacon
SteamVr controller bind menu
plush bison
tbh if anything should revert, I'd like the old floating X and Y bots... not this weird creepy quest bot
winged adder
that opens what looks like ovr advanced settings for me
desert stratus
if youre on PC you can only do it if you're using the steam client. i think OVRAS is now officially a part of the steamvr settings but if not its easy to get, go to the bind menu and set up a new bind set for vrc and youll be able to save it
@winged adder custom bindings is part of OVRAS and i think OVRAS is now a part of steamvr officially which is neat
ruby burrow
Hmm? Significant to a certain part of the community? This is significant to the entire game.
languid beacon
Avatars have a gender setting in SDK2 on the avatars descriptor. In SDK2 it’s just idle, idle2, and idle3 now (new, old female, old male)
plush bison
last I checked in the 20+ worlds i was in full of people, no one really enjoyed the new update other than improvements to FBT accuracies
ruby burrow
Both public users and creators benefit, it's just a case that creators haven't had time to take advantage of the features yet.
desert stratus
the thing is most of the problems as ive been saying that are solvable by the community and not the dev team mostly fall on avatar creators. stuff like the radial menu makes sense from a content development perspective especially if youve been keeping up with av 3.0 stuff the past while
umbral reef
@plush bison Its not like people are physically able to every say something good about the update in this community
desert stratus
its definitely jarring to users who arent heavy on content creation but its designed to seamlessly be really intuitive after a while
umbral reef
Its literally a tradition
In the 3 years i been here people always complain even if there is nothing bad at all about an update
desert stratus
its a fuck of a lot more of a bigger deal for anyone who makes avatars, though
plush bison
well people were getting banned for the questionable issues the update introduced
umbral reef
As someone who shited often on this game in this discord
Those people advertised another game/discord, insulted people or where just 3heads
languid beacon
Nah AV3 is like Christmas for me I love this. I can understand frustration because you need to learn new things and some stuff is more complicated but that’s becasue it’s all far more open ended now. And if you don’t like it just use SDK2
winged adder
is sdk2 never being depreciated?
plush bison
I just want PC performance updates not quest performance updates
languid beacon
Think about it. Do you see SDK1
ruby burrow
Well next to no one's been able to create content for AV3 yet Viola. All the average user sees is this confusing radial menu that only contains legacy emotes, without having a clue about what it's really for or capable of yet.
languid beacon
Yeah when content starts coming out that’s only possible with the new stuff people will appreciate it more
desert stratus
that's my point! everyone is going to simp hard for av3 when more and more public avatars built on it come out starting a few weeks from now
winged adder
i also see part of the problem being people needing to re-learn the avatar setup process. As well as those avatar creators that have fallen off the map. Avatars still around, but they creator is not
languid beacon
Essentially avatars have the same level of freedom now as worlds did before UDON
desert stratus
in fact, you can head on down to the av3 world right now and see the light of god if you really want to. some basic stuff but the implications are massive
thats on the community side though, everyone on the content side is already fully aware of the tools that have just been given to us
winged adder
LOL it deleted my message
plush bison
Sad thing is, I had a DJ event and more than 75% of us canceled because of the update. Everyone was dming me telling me their fav/main avatars were stretching and also not showing where their limbs actually were. We had to cancel the event since we all couldnt just switch platforms. I was kinda ticked off
winged adder
there are "role play" implications at the 3.0 hub. A nanachi with clothes you can take off, and body dimensions you can change
ruby burrow
People need to go visit the Avatars3.0 Hub world, to see the early examples and start getting an idea of what's possible now.
languid beacon
The only thing I want extra is for your edits parameters to stay when you hop worlds. Right now all my customizations on the avatar reset
cold talon
cant say the e word 
winged adder
nope, LOL
umbral reef
Eword?
indigo fern
enterprise resource planning
cold talon
^
winged adder
"Role play"
umbral reef
Aw big sad
Cant plan resource anymore
ruby needle
ESL? VRChat is not eSports
manic rune
Extreme shit you mean
winged adder
HAHA i watched that get deleted so fast by the bot
Emotional Role Play. You can take your clothes off now
indigo fern
emotional 😳
manic rune
wow xD
languid beacon
Exotic Roll Plough
marsh stump
What conversation did I just walk into
winged adder
Enticing Role Play
indigo fern
Extreme
Rules
Please help im in danger
languid beacon
Someone realized you can’t say e-role play
marsh stump
lol what
umbral reef
N8 just close the internet
No one can harm you IRL from the internet
winged adder
Extreme Rope play
desert stratus
the e
winged adder
E-RP
plush bison
wait wait, so this is considered a major update right? So why do clients still work? Portal droppers? Global toggles?
umbral reef
Because they didnt fix that
winged adder
ha!
languid beacon
Oy Crap they’ve forgot to break them
umbral reef
Almost like the Avi3 team isnt the same team that is supposed to solve that stuff
plush bison
More like it seems to be intentional for them to still have work arounds
manic rune
Thess conversations is half/half ppl happy/unappy with the new update, and ppl getting banned for mentioning a new vrc competitor and me trying to find a nice compromise in the middle, (keep the radial menu, but get the keybinds on rifts back where they were)
mortal flame
- We have added a "Mute" button to the bottom button on the left hand ("X") what is on odyssey?
umbral reef
Whack company not having everyone work on the same project
indigo fern
thats not why theyre getting banned, they get banned for being stupid
languid beacon
indigo fern
you can mention neosvr chilloutvr lavender any time you want
desert stratus
getting banned for spamming that fucking copypasta
manic rune
oki
plush bison
ChillOutVR runs better
indigo fern
minecraft vr runs better
umbral reef
We will see you on the other side kiddo
Your going to the shadow real now 👋 @indigo fern
glacial gale
A lot of very poor avatars are actually well optimized, the rating system is what sucks if anything
manic rune
but yeah for real, keepe the radial menu, i like it, but remove the mute button bind and place back jumping on stick plz ^^
umbral reef
@glacial gale No
mortal flame
- We have added a "Mute" button to the bottom button on the left hand ("X") what is on odyssey?
umbral reef
Well actually yes but ima argue no because its such an extreme edge case
languid beacon
Man the stick jumping I don’t understand am I the ONLY one who hates clicking joysticks ?
plush bison
30+ people in COVR's void club all avatars on mirror set to 4k atleast 10 people in FB and the rest in VR 120fps+
marsh stump
Something that need to be added is a way to hide portals. Way too often do I have people put portals in stairways and you see them last second right when you touch them and get taken to a random world.
Not to mention the client users who spam portals
manic rune
@languid beacon its just like that, you have your liking we have ours, its fine tbh, but its should be customisable from withing the game if you ask me.
desert stratus
have you considered that the people playing cvr actually have standards for optimization? id assume so since its a small community
plush bison
the devs do
desert stratus
i guarantee you that if the vrc community up and left to cvr entirely without any massive changes to how they make content the game would be just as fucking laggy
plush bison
actually nah, ive seen some stress testing done and well, cvr will still out perform
desert stratus
optimization and performance is 80% a content development problem. even if the cvr client is lighter to run than the vrc client there's only so much either dev team can do before people start shoveling in absolute garbage
umbral reef
You mean the 40+ people events in VRC with all optimized avatars dont run at a solid 45FPS or even 90 depending your gear?
Also the base game of VRC might be less smooth, but most is still on the users kek
desert stratus
okay to be fair stuff like the world meetup gets like 60+ players which is not a common or typical thing to run into in vrchat
plush bison
if you can run cvr with a 1050ti and a med-crap tier cpu and still push 45+ that says alot
desert stratus
yeah you can do the same with vrchat, my friend does that, i do that
weary roost
can someone help me with avatars in #avatars-mmd
wet thorn
What’s the new fullbody about is the avatar supposed to follow your head on calibration or is it a big?
ruby needle
Please dont cross promote posts @weary roost
weary roost
ok sorry
umbral reef
@glacial gale But i need by 12 dynamic bones with 5 colliders
wet thorn
Bug
placid mauve
anyone wanna hop on VRC
desert stratus
the deciding factor to whether you get frames or not often comes down to just being careful with your safety settings which have everything to do with content and nothing to do with the client
umbral reef
@wet thorn It now uses the head as ankerpoint yes
plush bison
easy fix if you like the old way
plush bison
new way is worse since I cant use playspace mover to fix my issues
thorny aspen
Use preportional avatars and no fulbody fixed avis and your fine
plush bison
"just fix the model" nah f that, im not gonna buy 5 models that im normally in
ruby burrow
You shouldn't really ever be using playspace mover when calibrating though. '-'
wet thorn
That’s another thing how do I use play space without it muring and unmuting myself as the mute is not the A button the same button to move around
muting
languid beacon
You can fully rebind your controllers how you want
thorny aspen
^
wet thorn
Can I rebind play space mover or no?
verbal geyser
all they need to do to fix this is remove the radial menu from the right stick and set it back to jump and change the right a button back to whatever it was before, that would fix the rifts complaints i think
ruby burrow
Hmm. I guess that's the creator vs public user aspect coming in again.
Probably one of the things that a rival to VR-Chat could compete on most effectively.
languid beacon
I haven’t used it
plush bison
lets take into account that im a hybrid vr/fbt user. If i had a vive/index headset I really wouldnt need to use it but lets go ahead and made a 'fix' that scuffs all models that ARENT meant to be proportionate
umbral reef
My avatar is broken so i use a whacky work around to fix it
No Ofcours i wont fix it, it functions fine with a unlogical whacky work around
Ah no the team fixed the full system and now my whacky work around doesnt work anymore. Its the devs fault and not my scuffed avatar!
latent jetty
We’re would I ask for a avatar
umbral reef
This hurts my dude
You got so close to realizing how whack it is what your complaining about
ruby burrow
If a rival platform came out with an in game standardised character creator, bypassing all the reliance on other creators, that'd win over a relevant portion of the community.
thorny aspen
You can revert the fbt to normal you know
plush bison
well to be fair, if they gave us an option to toggle whether to use the new system or not, no one would really be complaining about the FB issues
languid beacon
Keep in mind that often those complaining did not make the avatar they just know they had an avatar that worked, now it didn’t, and they don’t understand that it’s not the devs fault
indigo fern
you can use the old system still, you gotta change launch option
ruby burrow
Would need to be a good one though. And would likely involve casting the platform into a specific limited art style.
plush bison
no thats not how that works
umbral reef
And it would mean they need to support a broken legacy system that can break or delay every update @plush bison
radiant gyro
can i ask why there are two ways to open the new menu on an index controller, seems unnecessary and putting gesture toggle in a menu is annoying, separate buttons would be better
umbral reef
NEVER keep legacy content unless you need to
People not knowing how to fix avatars is not a reason to keep it.
upbeat thistle
Seriously i'd for the complaining to stop, we all need to get used to this new system
verbal geyser
@indigo fern change the launch options how, can you explain?
umbral reef
@upbeat thistle It would give me less shitposting content
indigo fern
https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/latest-release#full-body-tracking
If you prefer the old calibration method for some reason, launch VRChat with the --legacy-fbt-calibrate launch option.
plush bison
i know you want me to launch via "--legacy-fbt-calibrate" but that doesnt fix the issue the new update introduced to the avatars that arent proportionate. Simply changing my real user height before calibrating fixed my issues before the update. and now I cant do that because it will stretch the model out
upbeat thistle
In the long run, this will be better off for all of us
languid beacon
Tupper has been saying to not use work around for YEARS now and people did it anyway. That stuff finally broke and it’s the users who complain, saying the devs broke it. When it’s their avatars creator’s fault for making a public avatar with work arounds that the devs said not to use on public avatars.
umbral reef
cold talon
nah, could not have made that video without all the complaining
desert stratus
fuckin CAT's added a button to undo the fbt workaround
verbal geyser
ahh thought you meant to get rid of the new menu
desert stratus
and that was like same time last year
plush bison
yeah let me just disregard the avatars im usually in and call it easy f that smooth brain stuff
indigo fern
theres something else wrong with your model then, i can change real user height still and i do that to calibrate the new way
plush bison
again, im using a hybrid FB setup
indigo fern
even my older models
umbral reef
Hotox is biggest VRC waifu and il fight anyone saying they arent.
plush bison
WMR is going to have issues because of this update and guess what headset I have
wet thorn
Damn I did think they were going to add a volume adjusting option to individual players as I seen a forum of a dev saying they were working on it
indigo fern
there is a current issue with WMR not correctly identifying when the headset is off, you can turn afk toggle off in the menu
upbeat thistle
They had to make an announcement
vocal shard
How does VR Chat make money???
abstract sand
Egg
regal talon
virtual reality investment
upbeat thistle
This is kinda pathetic..... Let's be honest...
abstract sand
No egg?
regal talon
they can try egg
tacit plank
users are not good with change lol
plush bison
they make money from facebook for quest support and htc, although performance updates are focused on the quest mainly
floral aspen
Updates and changes in an early access game? How dare.
wet thorn
Yup^ as vrchats one of the main reasons people buy vr ^^
regal talon
like changes are good as long they are tested before
small wing
@regal talon Looks like you need to re read the announcement again bud
void osprey
Has anyone else had a issue with sitting play?
plush bison
i mean yea, i bought vr for vrchat but I also bought it for the enjoyment and socialability. Not the toxicity and script kiddies
regal talon
i read it and im agreed, but again this is too much of a mess
upbeat thistle
public beta test (?) Like the one with its own dedicated channel?
verbal geyser
@regal talon or if they gave us a way to opt in and out of it, or better yet configure it slightly
azure eagle
long story short boys, tupper is always god
peak raven
I havn't been on since maybe tuesday
grim tusk
i havent been on since 5mins ago
plush bison
tupper wants official booby touch support, so do i
floral aspen
Tupper will always fix it
desert stratus
ehh that can wait
peak raven
People want to fondle my goose tiddies all the time I imagine they want that
small wing
Sometimes you gotta have messes like this, I mean the announcement basically says that they needed wider testing. It's our fault as the community for not going into the beta.
vocal shard
Hey guys, I have a weird problem where my game will suddenly start lagging heavily on my headset after ~10 minutes of gameplay. Is it something I can fix or do I just have to buy a better graphics card? I have an RX 480 right now.
wet thorn
I mean vrchat is technicallya kids game @plush bison but in reality it shouldn’t 🤣
floral aspen
Is it though?
candid acorn
they had been making money from series A/B/C funding iirc.
but i think theyve already ended the last round of C. so now they need to find a way to monetize. which is why they got upset at those custom username tags a while back, as that is something they want to hold on to for potential monetization. Taffi was another early attempt, since you have to buy some of the cosmetic items for the avatar
indigo fern
uh, when has it been a kids game
languid beacon
Did the devs confirm individual volume sliders? Personally I’ve always thought that was a bad idea. Better that everyone agree someone is too loud. I don’t like “If you don’t like it turn me down”
peak raven
Did you change any of your settings lately @vocal shard
vocal shard
@peak raven No I have not
@wet thorn Just because a game isn't adults only doesn't mean it's a kids game
wet thorn
Anything’s a kids game if it doesn’t have a 18 plus rating which it doesn’t
plush bison
well its rated 13+ but since quest came out all I seen in chill worlds and adult worlds are 5-10 year olds
floral aspen
I'd be willing to bet the average VRChat user is over 18
indigo fern
maybe not mentally
umbral reef
@candid acorn Fairly sure it was just so people could not pretend to be staff or fake there username
hollow stirrup
VRC discord do be in slowmode doe.
limpid cypress
Its probably about 18 on average but there are a lot of young adults here.
peak raven
I seem like an older user being only 26. But I do meet alot of 16-22 year olds normally
small wing
A year ago that statement would have been most likely 100% true @floral aspen
languid beacon
There are no “adult” worlds. VRChat is a +13 game per Valve TOS that all steam games must follow
umbral reef
And taffi isnt even from VRC kek
desert stratus
average vrc user depends on level of world tbh. like most public worlds people fall around the teenager range but when you go down the f+ to f only pipeline and further people get progressively older quickly. most people seem to be around 20
sleek isle
robux
candid acorn
dont quote me on it but im pretty sure the specifically cited monetization as a cause. all it was was basically borders that would go over your nametag without actually changing the name. (which was annoying if you play with nametags off as youd have blank empty nametags floating there)
small wing
But over the past 4 ish years, ive noticed younger players are more prominent. Specifically with the no no toothbrush meme lately.
plush bison
Adult worlds, club worlds that have very very adult themed rooms and settings are basically adult worlds
wet thorn
let’s face it with the stuff you hear and see in vrchat there should be a age rating
vocal shard
I've been playing vrchat for a grand total of 10 hours since I got my Rift S yesterday, and so far I have not seen a single child. Lowest age I saw was like one 16 year old
indigo fern
it also depends if a meme video drags in users or not
plush bison
honestly vrc is a good way to catch pedos
languid beacon
Yeah if you enter a quest-only instance (pcVR/desktop can’t join) it’s all Kids. It’s pretty bad lol
desert stratus
@vocal shard welcome! stay, have some fun, please retreat to #general-media if the rollback posting in public lobby bleeds into here
ruby burrow
I'd estimate my normal friend groups as being around 24 years old as an average.
wet thorn
@plush bison and traps
candid acorn
as for average age, it doesnt mean a whole lot if that average range group has mostly consolidated into groups and gone to friends+ or private. which is something I do recall hearing tupper mention off hand that they're not sure how to deal with. the "brain drain' as it were of people from publics to friends groups outside of pubics
sleek isle
am 7
plush bison
traps are fine, im the big gay so
languid beacon
am 7
@ok.#1075
vocal shard
@languid beacon I wouldn't know much on that, since I don't have a quest, but that I can assume and agree with
desert stratus
im still in the youngest demographic in most vrc groups sitting at 18y, or at least compared to circles i find myself in
small wing
Don't get me wrong though, If i was younger and I found out about VR I would love it just as much. I'm glad people of all ages can enjoy VR, but it comes at a cost of having to deal with some obnoxious people at the end of the day lol.
ruby burrow
Yeah, that public to Friends/Private "brain drain" is very real. I can't think how you'd go about addressing that either.
oak pier
I have found 8 year olds in vrc, they exist and it's scary.
candid acorn
Personally i feel the change to instances that happened around 2 years back was a big factor. back when a world would list basically every instance, even empty ones. So it was easier for a group to say "ok, let's meet in instance #500" which is say, at the end of the list.
eventually, they changed it so that it only lists populated instances. and thats when i started seeing people flee to private and friends+. Also, the making of the hub obsolete with the vrchat home as a default spawn
desert stratus
ill never be mean to kids or try to isolate them from playing this game ever but there's also fair and justified demand to have some essence of control over age demographic in-game cuz sometimes its just nice to have
vocal shard
@desert stratus Yeah, I'm also 18, and the main group I ended up interacting with last session was all 20-25
desert stratus
in the first place at the very least kids shouldnt be playing this game anyway, people under 13 shouldnt be in this game lol
languid beacon
To be honest the Exotic Roll Plough people bother me more than the squeaker kiddos
vocal shard
loving the new FBT calibration and IK update. Now you can see who has a slouched posture lol
ruby burrow
One big help at least, would be improving security and killing modded client use.
wet thorn
I’m probably the youngest in the friend groups I tend to get myself into at 20 as I can’t stand people screaming so the people I hang with are roughly 25-27
candid acorn
you can enter the game and never once have to set foot in a public instance as you spawn even first time- in the vrchat home
desert stratus
most of my friends fall between 20 and 35 years old
candid acorn
hey there para
vocal shard
I say this having a sister who nearly fell into a groomers trap when she was 12
languid beacon
12- isn’t allowed on Steam at all, actually.
desert stratus
punch groomers