vrchat-general-2

[still lark]

Private instance

[covert blade]

I'm talking about the permanent ones that are part of the world

[little wave]

That's what I mean by world portal yeah

[still lark]

Yeah, private

[covert blade]

Hm, interesting

[still lark]

I think

[vocal shard]

qui est fr

[sterile drift]

I just read all of that up there

What happened LOL

[snow wadi]

What DIDN'T happen is the more accurate question xD

[sterile drift]

I just see Nonskiller doing like

Whatever that was

Lowkey backtalking Aev in the dumbest way

Idk who he was trying to impress there

[snow wadi]

Ah well at least that's over and done with.

[elder prism]

just scrolled up a bit to read what's going on

[umbral reef]

bit like and i wont risk the mention but Aev there is a muted role that came with the latest robot. it should function and not allow anyone to chat in the channels so 🤷

[elder prism]

this game and discord seemed to have become very unfriendly 😦

[umbral reef]

This discord just like the game are a mix of super friendly people and some odd/bad eggs.

[elder prism]

feels more like a nazi regime tbh

[umbral reef]

Its still totally worth being in both for the good people
And to make clear, the no skiller has been 'spamming' chat for over a week like this, has posted false information a fair bit, floods chat like he just did without reason (often in the wrong channel (like we are doing rn)) and disrupting the conversation that goes on. Guy legit talks to himself and boy its annoying.

[elder prism]

i don't see many friendly people in game either, i've been to many rooms, everyone seems pretty cliquey , or pervy, or just trolling with shaders, i dunno what's changed

[umbral reef]

Highly depends what world you go to and in what timezone. The main few worlds are really hit or miss. The less known buy active worlds (battle disk for example) can be really good to find some neat people.

[tawny ore]

HA-haa! It's a morning and I am alive. Good morning VRCDiscord

[inner cape]

yo

[faint skiff]

Being "off" US timezones can make things messy. Trying to go on UK evening = US afternoon so it's just full of kids (no joke, almost entirely white nameplates, many of them sounded really young). Staying on till 4am my time filters out the kids (and destroys my sleep cycle...) but then they're kinda just replaced with groups of people that already know each other or just "mirror sit". I think finding better public locations may be key to beating those issues.

[tawny ore]

@faint skiff I made that observation too! However UK nighttime (after midnight GMT) - VRC worlds turn into something magical

[inner cape]

[faint skiff]

I'd say it's a good few hours after midnight unfortunately, at midnight it's still very much kid-infested...

[tawny ore]

Oh come to think of it - you're right... since we're technically waiting for east coast to go to sleep (-4:00)

[faint skiff]

Ran into a few people last night who just have white plate users hidden entirely, which for places like the Pug doesn't seem like a terrible idea. Oddly enough more people than usual last night appeared to be on desktop.

[inner cape]

coincidence and nothing more

[faint skiff]

Probably

[tawny ore]

I actually have white plate users voices, animations and pretty much everything hidden

People keep telling me I shouldn't do that

[inner cape]

yes you shouldn't

[faint skiff]

You probably should. They're aids in like 99% of situations. I think I have them set to only allow avatar and voice, but end up muting them with very high frequency.

[woven steppe]

I actually hide shaders and avatar noises on friends but leave everything else on on everyone else.

[inner cape]

huh

[glossy wharf]

You have the wrong kinda friends then LOL

[woven steppe]

More of a "I've seen them before already but those who I'm just meeting now, I got to see what they do first"

[inner cape]

wha

[glossy wharf]

What

visible confusion

[woven steppe]

Really can't get it? I'm saying that I know what my friends avatars are like so I can save frames by blocking features on them. But I don't know what nifty (or annoying) things avatar of people I'm just meeting have so that's why I leave them on for them.

[glossy wharf]

I get it but it doesnt make sense to me.

[inner cape]

that's really weird to me

you'd be blocking out way more strangers than friends, it barely saves you any fps tbh

[tawny ore]

I don't do it for FPS... I do it to keep majority of my brain cells usable for better things

[faint skiff]

For what it's worth, if you're in VR, I found disabling shaders (for everyone) takes my FPS from 20 or so, up to 60-80. So yeah...

So I have it enabled for friends and no-one else.

[inner cape]

personally, I dont disable shaders

[tawny ore]

Same here

[inner cape]

I used to not use safety system at all for a really long while and only very recently I just disabled sound sources on everyone but friends and that's it

[glossy wharf]

I have shaders disabled for non friends atm cause people would just do annoying shit

id rather unblock after talking to a person

[ivory axle]

^

[faint skiff]

Yeah, manually enabling people (which I didn't realise was a thing for a good while) works well. The real trust level, lol.

[glossy wharf]

Yeah, id rather do it on a person by person basis, the ranks dont really tell much.

[woven steppe]

ranks just tell you how much of our lives we spent in this damn social platform lol

[inner cape]

still user after 2k hours

[rigid crescent]

smoothbrains still blocking shaders when they could just do animations?

[glossy wharf]

i have both disabled smile

[rigid crescent]

that's extra smoov

[inner cape]

ok
prefab

[rigid crescent]

no point in turning anything else off if you keep of anims

[woven steppe]

But If I disable them then I wouldn't be able to decide if I like whatever bullshit they have or not XD

[glossy wharf]

I mean shaders can still be annoying garbage, some have their shit on by default so blocking anims wouldnt do much

[rigid crescent]

"some" like....the smallest fraction lol

[inner cape]

let me also mention that blocking sounds does not always work

[rigid crescent]

i don't know how people can look at broken blocked shaders and enjoy themselves smh

unrefined eye-palletes

[tawny ore]

@rigid crescent Where did you find the technology to duplicate my mentality?

[woven steppe]

I can't comment on that... I use the bloody standard unity shader, just modified to be 2 sided

[glossy wharf]

Aka culling turned off

[rigid crescent]

back during the trust setting beta lol

turned on everything but animations for non-friends, never looked back

[inner cape]

standard shader anime character

[woven steppe]

Yes please

[rigid crescent]

The frequency i see anyone with annoying shader shit on by default is so low i can't remember the last time i've seen it

[faint skiff]

@rigid crescent I look at them and think "Wow, wouldn't it be great if people could make avatars that don't need shaders to even display basic features properly..." heh

[rigid crescent]

....everything needs shaders to display basic features properly

[faint skiff]

No, not really

I spend most my time in the Pug/Cat trying to find new people/friends. Keeping shaders, anims and sounds on there is like swimming in a public swimming pool with no chlorine or filtration system.

[woven steppe]

How do you render anything if there's no shader?

[rigid crescent]

It's....it's definitely not.

how people exaggerate this hard is beyond me

[faint skiff]

I mean if you spend most time in other worlds or with friends then I can't imagine it being an issue keeping this all on, but it's definitely not viable in busy places like that.

@woven steppe Most avatars look fine. Only a few just show up as a solid colour without shaders.

[rigid crescent]

A solid half or more of my hours are public, soooo

[faint skiff]

Maybe you're on different timezones, maybe you're lucky, I don't know. But pretending it's not a complete mess a lot of the time would be highly misleading.

[glossy wharf]

literally all my time is in public and enverex over exaggerates by a mile LUL

[rigid crescent]

Especially the "most avatars look fine" bit lol

[woven steppe]

spent 24 hours in a public pug once... Nothing catastrophically bad happened

[rigid crescent]

People like to exaggerate the issues in public, I don't get why

[faint skiff]

Keep in mind that with shaders off, you still see whitelisted shaders. It just disables custom shaders.

[woven steppe]

not like the days of when people went about and put a porn overlay on your face lul

[glossy wharf]

literally nothing happening in a pug, sometimes from time to time you have an annoying person but its definitely not the norm LUL

[tidal crest]

i do want to chime in, during my like 6 hour session in The Spire climbing map, ihopped between public worlds and saw maybe over 200 people, but not one of them really had a bad avatar or shader that would impact my enjoyment of the map

[glossy wharf]

yeah because the issue is non existant

[tidal crest]

i spent too much time on that spire map 😩

[woven steppe]

The times I do find annoying people on publics they're usually voted out of the session rather quickly

[tidal crest]

it's really fun though so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rigid crescent]

"most avatars look fine" https://puu.sh/DTQZI/bb35ab2243.png whew you rite

[inner cape]

sniper on the back spotted

[woven steppe]

oh god that rifle actually hurts my eyes

[snow wadi]

Oh look! A crasher!

[inner cape]

o7

[rigid crescent]

https://puu.sh/DTR1o/08479a7a42.png such good default shadesr im glad most models look like this

[tidal crest]

since it seems active I wonder if I should shamelessly plug myself for some internet brownie points 👀

[still lark]

@rigid crescent At least you can see the curves on that christmas model now. xd

[rigid crescent]

and this is in desktop, it looks even worse in VR lol

[glossy wharf]

@tidal crest #shameless-self-promotion

[tidal crest]

yeh i know twas a joke

i already put mit in #vrchat-videos

😉

[glossy wharf]

Gaming

[tidal crest]

shuh

[glossy wharf]

oh no.

[inner cape]

that place is a graveyard of cringy clickbaits

[glossy wharf]

Literally muted the channel

[faint skiff]

@woven steppe I've only ever seen someone voted out successfully once and that was on a small map where they were using a modified client to try and crash people with portals.

[glossy wharf]

Dude, i had a guy push a portal into me 2 days ago and he teleported me into a furry world and ive never ever been more horrified in my entire life before

[inner cape]

from my experience people run around screaming "ow my gaaad, what is this" or leave instead of co operating and clicking 2 buttons to accept the kick vote

if something bad is going down ^

[faint skiff]

@rigid crescent It looks... acceptable. If I'm sub 30fps then I have to start making sacrifices anyway

[rigid crescent]

where are people going that they're getting under 45 tf

[tawny ore]

Public rooms with a full HQ mirror and lots of stupid people with messed up bones and shaders

[rigid crescent]

Acceptable sure but claiming that most people have terrible shaders that ruin publics is just the biggest exaggeration lol if your issue si lag then sure block them

[tawny ore]

Mic I mentioned bones because me and a friend went into an avatar world... and activating one of the avatars cut the framerate down to 25% of normal value

[rigid crescent]

because i went through 5 different completely populated publics and saw nothing so awful that it would taint my experience while in VR, minus the others i went into with shaders turned off lol

[tawny ore]

It was a lot of jiggle and no flash

[rigid crescent]

shaders turned off ,everything looked like crap bigtime

[tawny ore]

Oh I agree; shaders must stay on; its the custom animations you wanna worry about

[rigid crescent]

yeah lots of cloth or super crazy Db will do that

[glossy wharf]

Colliders are hot

gotta love my 6000 collision checks

[rigid crescent]

NEED those 6k

[faint skiff]

@rigid crescent The Pug. If there's 10+ people in the same area (with a lot of shaders) then performance tanks.

Keep in mind this is VR. Performance on desktop is much, much higher.

[rigid crescent]

the hell are you running lol

[woven steppe]

better not be a 1050ti

[faint skiff]

i7-8700, 980 Ti, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz, etc.

[woven steppe]

Why the hell is the 1050 ti still even available today?

[rigid crescent]

i feel like you shouldn't be tanking that hard under 30 unless youve got a ton of backgrounds tuff running lol

[tawny ore]

980Ti is entry for VR; so It's not exactly shocking

[woven steppe]

Entry?

[tawny ore]

Entry level card for VR, yes

[woven steppe]

Ey?

[rigid crescent]

Still, "I block shaders for performance" and "Everyone in publics has terrible looking shaders that make publics a mess!" are two very, very different claims

because one of those is an exaggeration and the other one is just a neccessity

as is "most avatars look fine", that's an exaggeration as well. they're....well they're visiible, that's for sure i guess

[glossy wharf]

980ti is an entry card lol

its 2 gens old.

[tawny ore]

Sai, I made an error - 980 was the entry level; Ti is actually quite close to a 1070

which is a normal VR spec card

outside of VRAM

[glossy wharf]

I know i was mocking what u said

[tawny ore]

I'm actually surprised; because I thought the entire 900 series of cards were potato

Turns out there was a good Ti version

[glossy wharf]

the 900 series wasnt half bad

its just getting superseded

[faint skiff]

No, the 970 was entry for VR. 980Ti is considerably higher spec.

[glossy wharf]

the 980ti is equal to a 1070, its a mid range card.

[tawny ore]

980ti is really good all things considered. I just didn't know there was a 900 series ti version (I was out of the PC hardware market at that time)

All I remember hearing was the whole VRAM issue with those cards (not the TI version)

[glossy wharf]

funny to see how you can get the same performance for 1/3rd of the price

[faint skiff]

That's what a few years and a generation does.

[glossy wharf]

i mean its 1 year difference

[woven steppe]

When VR came out in 2016 weren't the 980ti the range topper for Nvidia?

[faint skiff]

Yes

[glossy wharf]

Nope, the 10 series was released at that point.

[faint skiff]

Which is why the whole "entry level" comment seemed... silly

[glossy wharf]

the 10 series came out Q2 2016

[faint skiff]

The 10 series did not exist when I bought my Vive, I'm almost certain of that

[glossy wharf]

thats cause the original vive came out in 2015

[faint skiff]

Because I remember later hearing about how they had "enhancements" for VR and being a little miffed.

@rigid crescent I mean there is a level of hyperbole to it, otherwise I'd need to be pointlessly verbose. I'm expecting people to fill in the gaps. Not everyone is a problem, but enough for it to feel like a constant issue are.

[stone glen]

hoi

[glossy wharf]

and then the consumer release was in april

and the 10 series came out a month later

i kinda wanna buy a reference design 20 series cause the new shroud looks so nice

[woven steppe]

clean brick aesthetics?

[faint skiff]

But noisy turbines 😦

[rigid crescent]

https://puu.sh/DTRBm/d4102cc561.png I know this is referring to the google carboard but my first thought was "Yeah, buying the Quest is basically like buying a piece of cardboard...."

[glossy wharf]

Its not even a noisy turbine with the 20 series shroud.

[tawny ore]

Mic - Buying Go is like buying a piece of cardboard

[glossy wharf]

And neither is it a brick, its a clean simple design that would fit my build p well

[faint skiff]

Well anyway, I've bought a 2080 Ti so we'll see how much that helps, if at all.

[glossy wharf]

why would you buy a 2080ti now with the super coming out

[rough pulsar]

If it's your current GPU being the bottleneck it should do

[faint skiff]

Because the 2080 Super is still worse than the 2080 Ti and there won't be a 2080 Ti Super

[woven steppe]

I've never seen VRC max any of my CPU cores...

it's always the GPU going "I'm hot... I need a rest"

[glossy wharf]

I mean ur cpu not going max is cause the multicore usage is ass.

neither my gpu nor cpu are reaching 100% usage.

[woven steppe]

I'm looking at per core usage tho

[glossy wharf]

cant wait to yeet that sweet 3900x in my pc tho

[woven steppe]

I mean Total War Rome II will peg one core to 100% and the others are like at 30% and I'd end up with 30fps, but VRC has never hit 100% on any core

[glossy wharf]

What potato are u running hot damn

[woven steppe]

R5 1600

[glossy wharf]

oh yikes

3.6 boost coming thru

[woven steppe]

No boost

OC'ed to 3.8

[glossy wharf]

cant relate, am running 5ghz oc

[rough pulsar]

I still love how I saw no reasonable change in perf in vrchat going from a i7 6820hk/8GB 1080 to a Ryzen Threadripper 1950x/11GB 1080Ti 🤣

[glossy wharf]

Cause the game is well made LUL

[woven steppe]

Game is gud

[glossy wharf]

debatable

[faint skiff]

Serious question, has anyone ever seen a Unity game (that didn't have super basic graphics) that actually performed well?

[glossy wharf]

Avatars are performance hogs for sure, but there is still quite a bit of multicore optimization and also optimization of vrchat based things that are possible.

But its in early access and in active development so im not judging.

[rough pulsar]

The Lab, Aperture Hand Lab...

[faint skiff]

Are those not Source 2?

[rough pulsar]

Nah, Unity

[woven steppe]

I wonder how hot my VRM's will get If a pop in a 3000 series CPU on this...

[faint skiff]

They are both very tiny environments though.

[glossy wharf]

Assassins Creed identity, Deus ex the fall, hearthstone

[rough pulsar]

For The Lab Valve made their own renderer with some crazy stuff that made Unity not suck balls.

[faint skiff]

Deus Ex: The Fail? The terrible moble game that both looked and played like a mobile game? I don't think that's a good example..

[glossy wharf]

i mean for a mobile game it looked decent, and its unity based so /shrug

[faint skiff]

Again Hearthstone is super basic graphically.

I specifically said "that don't have super basic graphics"

[woven steppe]

so you need something that simulates a buttload of 3d objects with physics?

[faint skiff]

All these examples are very small, limited environments, or more basic than that.

[glossy wharf]

Ok then, Osiris new dawn, pharos ar, trinity, tarkov, adam, praey for the gods, d.r.o.n.e.

Ori and the blind forest, Inside.

[faint skiff]

Ori isn't even 3D is it? Don't just list games that use Unity.

[glossy wharf]

it is 3d.

Its a 2d camera mode but there is definitely depth to the game.

[faint skiff]

The ol' 2.5D effect

[glossy wharf]

Also i literally listed a fuckton of games up there which are just a few examples of good looking unity games, and you decide to pick one out that doesnt fully fit.

Nice meme LOL

[faint skiff]

Do they all perform well?

[glossy wharf]

Yes they all do

[woven steppe]

what's your definition of "well" tho?

[faint skiff]

Not requiring disproportionally high-end hardware to achieve framerates expected of the graphical quality.

[glossy wharf]

I mean ur only going to get high end graphics and details with high end hardware, thats the same on any engine

But these games still look good.

on any ol hardware.

Esp with post processing stacks and other things becoming more and more available in unity, you can expect games to look pretty

[faint skiff]

But there's a balance. Take VRC as a "bad" example: It requires very high-end hardware to run what look like basic environments with very little going on. An example on the "good" side would be something like Metal Gear Solid 5 which could still look very good, despite running on mediocre hardware.

[glossy wharf]

Comparing a VR game with user generated content made by an indie studio to a triple a game with a huge budget

Real galaxy brain move here.

[faint skiff]

They were examples on the scale, no need to be a twat about it.

[glossy wharf]

Next thing you tell me movies made by big studios look better than what i film at home

[rough pulsar]

Get in one of the quest-ready avatars (so you aren't taking up much resources) and go wander around some worlds in private instances so there's no other users around and watch your frame timing.

The bulk of resource use is avatars.

[woven steppe]

In this day and age... I'm not sure that's entirely 100% correct now Sai

[umbral reef]

Also its not like games like metal gear swap objects for lesser versions or remove functions (or replace them with lesser ones) for worse hardware. something VRC cant really do

[glossy wharf]

It is very much correct, you have technology that triple a studios use that just isnt available to indie studios.

@umbral reef LOD is very much a thing for unity and works in VRC.

[umbral reef]

Does it get properly used?

[glossy wharf]

Yes.

[umbral reef]

Also for avatars?

[rough pulsar]

On avatars LODs are weird, they mostly work though

[glossy wharf]

^

[umbral reef]

Hm, never knew

[rough pulsar]

Last I remember they had issues in mirrors but otherwise were fine

I wonder if they contribute to your overall polycount with the perf ranking system

[glossy wharf]

Probably seeing how well it calculates

[faint skiff]

My avatar is green across the board except for dynamic bones so I'm probably fine as is without having to swap out to test. But yeah, that just goes back to my earlier comment about having to disable shaders to get the majority of my framerate back.

[glossy wharf]

Its mostly dynamic bones, colliders and cloth that impact performance on avatars, unless ur looking at a tesselation shader.

Aswell as multiple meshes and materials which increase drawcalls.

[rough pulsar]

distance-based tesselation is great. which reminds me

[glossy wharf]

uh oh

[faint skiff]

One mesh. One material.

[glossy wharf]

Still my point stands, theres quite a few things that could be handled better by splitting them across multiple threads.

[rough pulsar]

My hair shader had the max tesselation a little too high so if you put your face in my head you'd feel it 🤣

[glossy wharf]

Gallium i had that with a friend who has a fur shader on his tail

would literally crash ur game if u looked into it.

[umbral reef]

Fur shaders :notlikethis:

[glossy wharf]

Eventually told him to replace it with xsfur

[rough pulsar]

If it's a raymarching shader then that's gonna get real fun when it takes up a lot of the screen

[glossy wharf]

f in chat for our fallen frames

[snow wadi]

Finally done with the touches, now to upload the new world at long last \o/

[umbral reef]

Btw how does VRC 2fa work? Email, sms or an app?

[snow wadi]

App

[glossy wharf]

authy i guess?

[umbral reef]

Ay neat so they did it right

[glossy wharf]

should prolly enable

[faint skiff]

Can it use email for the 2FA part rather than just a mobile app?

[glossy wharf]

Nope

[faint skiff]

Hmm, guess I won't be using it then.

[umbral reef]

Email 2fa is the worse 2fa out there in any targeted attack...

Get your email compromised and all 2fa platforms are also compromised..

[faint skiff]

Not really, because having someone's username and password for a random service doesn't imply they'd have access to that person's email too.

[umbral reef]

It is though- Flatout

[glossy wharf]

if they get ur email they literally know where to look for ur account data, can then request a password change for that service and have ur 2fa aswell.

Email 2fa is the shittiest thing ever.

[umbral reef]

It goes Email -> Sms -> Apps
Sms is leaps better then email because ^ but does not defend against hardcore hackers with how shit ISP are or spoofing. Apps are pretty much dummy proof

[faint skiff]

SMS and Apps have the same issue, in that I'd need my phone which I typically don't have when I'm at my PC.

Making them equally as useless.

[covert blade]

Where's your phone then?

[faint skiff]

Probably upstairs charging or something. I rarely use it.

[covert blade]

Lol

[glossy wharf]

Sms and apps do indeed not have the same issues

Because they dont allow you to perform a reset

they are an additional separate layer that is needed but doesnt give full access

[snow wadi]

@rough pulsar https://youtu.be/J-8RgFvqvdY How did I do? I'm uploading the world now \o/

[covert blade]

My phone is usually on my desk

[umbral reef]

Howly fuck that looks neat qhala
Dm me a world link once its live

[snow wadi]

Hokai

[glossy wharf]

how do you do animated panels, i wanted to do that once i touch worlds

[snow wadi]

It's done by a specific shader and image, the animation is actually several images in one single image...if that makes any sense.

[glossy wharf]

so a texture sheet animation

aight, simple enough.

[snow wadi]

Creo Residential District world is now up!

[past cosmos]

i'll look into it. btw Qhala I love Sector 27

[snow wadi]

Tenkoo! ❤

[past cosmos]

looking awesome

[vocal shard]

Hello

If you see me in the game thank to : @vocal shard and your name in the game cuz i'm shearching somebody

[ancient hearth]

I did it I figured out the game kinda

[rough pulsar]

@snow wadi Damn, that looks pretty good. I'll have to remember to check it out next I'm in.

[snow wadi]

[inner cape]

[faint skiff]

Has anyone here made their own humanlike avatar entirely from scratch, as in modelled and textured the body themselves, no kitbashing?

[inner cape]

I'm in the process of doing that

[glossy wharf]

Also doing that

[umbral reef]

everyone making fancy avatars and im running with a scuffed one c:

dont really play enough to spend more time into making one so eh

[inner cape]

let me correct myself, I'm on a break from doing that

🗿

[faint skiff]

I dislike seeing people using the same avatar as me as it feels a bit weird, so I looked into making my own, but kitbashing seems to be frowned upon, which only leaves making your own from scratch but that seems like it would take weeks/months and would still suck at the end due to not being an artist... so a little lost really.

[glossy wharf]

Most people kitbash themselves and as long as its a somewhat creative concept aka not a fucking catgirl or foxgirl or any of that then people usually dont frown upon it

But then again, make whatever makes u happy and what u want to be.

[bitter needle]

I also think peoples main problem with kitbashes are how unoptimized they can be if you end up with like 60 materials

I love to see peoples custom ukons or masscats

[faint skiff]

I mean I optimised through the wazoo. Original base was around 86k tris, I then added a bunch of stuff but brought it down to 64k tris. Finally it was 1 mesh and only 1 material.

[glossy wharf]

tris dont matter as much.

Materials and meshes however do.

[faint skiff]

I stuck below 70k to keep the "good" rating.

[glossy wharf]

ratings dont matter much either, they just take the worst and base ur rank off that.

[bitter needle]

I mean thats better optimized than all of the booth.pm models ive purchased from vket etc so you are doing really well

I'm learning to edit one I bought in blender for the first time and switching out a dress with a bunch of dynamic bones for a long parka without them should help mine

[faint skiff]

The only thing that takes it out of a "good" rating was the dynamic bones (around 60 or so) which moves it to poor unfortunately. I did like having the green circle. I was surprised that I managed to make a "poor" rated Quest version without any serious loss of quality though.

Though it did take me more than 6 hours...

[inner cape]

slightly disagree with sai, cat girls and fox girls are fine too, as long as you make them look original

[umbral reef]

Thats hard to do though lmao

by the time they are properly original they are not the normal cat girl or fox anymore

[inner cape]

you can make them into anything, only difference would be having a tail and those ears

[glossy wharf]

@inner cape There is literally no way to make those look original with how flooded the game is with them.

[umbral reef]

Give an example then
Because beside clothes swapping, colors, a hat or thing to hold there is not a lot you can do

[glossy wharf]

^

[rough pulsar]

Making some alterations to the face would go a long way.

[umbral reef]

Then it aint really kitbashing anymore

[inner cape]

if we go beyond Frankensteining, you can literally make any character, any clothes, looks and etc. and it will be original and slap ears and a tail why would it be unoriginal? I get the catgirl idea itself isn't, but the model would still be

[lyric urchin]

i've been using VRoid along with the vrm to vrchat script, unfortunately there's some bugs in the arms and hands (thumbs)

[rough pulsar]

I kitbash my avatars because character modeling really isn't my strong point (environment art is), and I make lots of adjustments to the mesh. Still counts as a kitbash.

[faint skiff]

@umbral reef At what point does it go beyond kitbashing?

[umbral reef]

when you actually properly make or fully edit something

And not talking about removing something small

[inner cape]

if you automatically deem any model with ears and a tail unoriginal no matter how it was made then that's odd imo
that's just how what you said sounded to me, correct me if I'm wrong, @glossy wharf

[faint skiff]

I think I've come up with something original. I'll make a neko character, wearing quite skimpy clothing and just to make sure they're truly unique, cover them in tattoos that show their expressive nature. What do you think?

[inner cape]

ouch

[umbral reef]

Perfectly unique

[sullen escarp]

unheard of

[inner cape]

I'll steal your idea now tyvm

[faint skiff]

Noooo, my sonic OC, plz dnt coyp

[inner cape]

my oc now

[outer notch]

yoink

[snow wadi]

OC do not steal!

xD

[inner cape]

yoink indeed

[jovial summit]

Hello

[inner cape]

stop saying the same thing across multiple channels, @jovial summit

but hello

[jovial summit]

K chill

Oh sorry

[faint skiff]

Not that I have any plans for FBT, but who knows - is it worth trying to make the avatar's proportions more realistic so that things like legs and arms match up better?

[inner cape]

yep

just do it

[faint skiff]

The question then is how? Chop out segments, move it back, rejoin, etc?

[jovial summit]

I’m the popo

[inner cape]

I'd say move and scale things in pose mode until it's the right proportions them fix the mesh itself up where necessary

[faint skiff]

Oh, duh. Yeah, I guess you could just shrink them on one axis couldn't you.

[frosty veldt]

@faint skiff you can turn off scaling according to parent for a bone and then scale things in pose mode. If you don't turn of the scaling then shrinking your forearm will shrink your hand

Don't remember what the actual checkbox is called but it's in the bone menu

[inner cape]

local scaling also might help when working in pose mode

[indigo fern]

If you just type in "Kung full body" on YouTube you'll find a pretty long tutorial on proportioning your avatar

[faint skiff]

Thanks, I'll look into all that then.

Other than DeviantArt, does anyone have any other "base body" recommended locations? (before I start work on a whole new thing and change my mind again and have to do all the work again)

[cold talon]

And if you mess it up and write "Kung fury"
You'll find a really awesome movie

And you can find some ok models on bowlroll btw

[inner cape]

a lot of good ones there have a big "don't use in vrc" tag on them

[hollow breach]

Ha, gottem

[faint skiff]

Navigating BowlRoll without being able to read moon runes is going to be a little difficult.

[hollow breach]

Nah, it’s ez pz

U just suck, sucks to suck (vrc plz don’t ban me)

[faint skiff]

Also why does Japan not use UTF-8/16 like the rest of the world? I mean... âOâëâuâïüyâhâëâtâéâfâïâZâbâgüzÄxëçö┼0.1 ... really?

[final mango]

what if you wanted to enjoy your life but a random emoji man came blasting joy emojis at you while blaring rap music

with a gun that has an eggplant as a grip

[inner cape]

😔

[final mango]

and your eyebrOWS WONT LOAD IN ON YOUR AVATAR AJDNWKDH

[shy spoke]

@final mango Too many caps.

[final mango]

bot, I will cap u

[faint skiff]

BowlRoll really is 99% lewds isn't it... lol

[rigid crescent]

no?

its mostly guns and boys

Guns, FGO boys, and every so often a mech or V-Tuber

[faint skiff]

I'll change my sort order then.

[rigid crescent]

I mean, if you hit the R-18 tab then yes, but even then it's not really that bad

[faint skiff]

I've not got that enabled.

[rigid crescent]

well I can scroll trhough pages and pages of bowlroll and find nothing past some cleavage on a low cut top so

[snow wadi]

I remember that site, they have a no vrc agenda going on there (well most at least if not all).

[faint skiff]

Looks like it was just a group at the top, it's deleweded now it seems.

[rigid crescent]

yeah because im 5 pages deep and the worst ive seen is a panty shot and that's a .motion, not evne a model

[tacit plank]

mmdabooru has some lewds (not allowed to link it though)

But maybe you're seeing lewd things which just use safe thumbnails due to some rule?

[velvet zephyr]

if i could stop geting hate here that be great

[sharp saddle]

👀

[glossy wharf]

@velvet zephyr ily

[median basalt]

@velvet zephyr you're not gonna throw a fit in my DM's again are you?

[rigid crescent]

BREH

[median basalt]

Are you this fragile?

[rigid crescent]

[median basalt]

You literally DM'ed me just to say "fuck you" when your world inevitably got taken down because you refused to optimize or remove the existing avatars

(Which took 5 months to happen)

Are you literally just searching your own name in the VRC Discord and complaining that people talk about your world?

Because last time anyone mentioned you was Friday

[rigid crescent]

dont do bad things and people wont talk about bad things you do 😺

[median basalt]

^

It's pretty much an open forum and we're not breaking any rules (you on the other hand broke rule 9 by harassing me through DM's, I didn't report it because I'm not thin-skinned)

Also no matter what anyone says, "that one person" was fake-nice.

Had a lot of those fake-nice people lately, actually. One of them was a huge asshole to people, and only ever apologized to me because they found out I was on the autism spectrum.

Never got an apology for the cunty behavior, only "oh sorry I can't be mean to autistic people", thanks I guess?

Man this game attracts too much drama

[cold talon]

Yike

[umbral reef]

TBH that appology makes it like 20x worse

[median basalt]

Dunno about that, you should ask them about it @umbral reef 😂

[ornate finch]

it attracts/generates too much ego

[faint skiff]

What is Afromana's PFP?

[rigid crescent]

lizardperson

[umbral reef]

His ingame avatar so far i know

[rigid crescent]

from divinity, also his avatar yeah

[faint skiff]

Ahh, that's why it looked familiar. The lizard people from Divinity. Thanks.

[frosty veldt]

Yeah their in-game avatar is 👌

[oblique igloo]

[languid beacon]

Somehow I seem to always avoid the drama

Are you all sitting up straight and stuffing toys under your desk when I walk by or something

[lucid wyvern]

i dont have a vr

sad days

[median basalt]

@languid beacon I get involved in drama, one of them was definitely my fault and the other one was just Shonzo being a cunt towards me and DM'ing me to say "fuck you" and shit

He literally searches his name on this Discord and whines about people that criticize his world lmfao

His world got taken down and he decided to harass me in DM's because I kept saying it performed poorly.

That too. Social games attract unstable people and all the regular social drama on top of that.

[languid beacon]

I guess I hang out with normies :p

[median basalt]

I had a friend who I supported when he went through some hard times and I also busted my ass to fix some shaders for him

Now he literally doesn't talk to me anymore (he ghosted all his friends), and somehow he thinks I'm the asshole here.

Guess I was only ever the "local shader dealer" and not his friend. 😕

[ornate finch]

yo i hear you got dem shaders 👌

[median basalt]

Yeah lmao

Publics aren't fun anymore. No more people creating their own stuff, just emissive tattoo TDA thots in public avatars.

[languid beacon]

Got this new epileptic shader my dealer won’t tell me where he gets it

Hm. It’s interesting I did not see these complaints a year ago when I joined

[median basalt]

@languid beacon that's because a year ago this wasn't a thing yet. It was damn close though.

The distrust system was the beginning of the end.

Before that, things were mostly gucci.

[languid beacon]

I joined mid May 2018

[median basalt]

Yeah then the trust system wasn't a thing yet. I joined january 2018.

@brisk bone it's mostly thanks to the streamers, almost every single streamer in this game is an insufferable cunt. I roll my eyes every time they speak in these channels.

[languid beacon]

I really don’t see how the trust system plays into this though. I’m not disagreeing I just don’t understand

[median basalt]

I had one of those types act like a cunt towards me, they couldn't figure out why I hated them so much

[ornate finch]

the trust system just segregates the community pretty much

[median basalt]

Then they got word that I'm autistic and suddenly it's "ohhh shit I was mean to an autistic person, I better try and save face by posting a bullshit apology!"

[frosty veldt]

Trust system just adds another way idiots can discriminate in a sense

[ornate finch]

yeah

[median basalt]

Yeah but it subconsciously affects regular people too

The point is, the trust system suddenly made people unequal which was a huge mistake.

[ornate finch]

the only rank we really need to "see" is visitor or w/e to filter trolls or rerolls

[languid beacon]

I’ve never seen anyone talk about trust levels. And I’ve played in equal parts green and purple

[ornate finch]

but even then we could scrap that system and live

[frosty veldt]

Oh yeah it has an effect just like everything in life you just have to look past it. Nothing's wrong with pre judgement if you don't act on it imo

[rigid crescent]

I dunno, been asking around and not many people say they've felt "discriminated" against. did it on my blue alt just to be sure me being purple didnt bias them

I mean so far I've hit about 100-ish people, none of which are friends or acquaintances.

[languid beacon]

I mean I think the trust system is useless, now that we have avatar performance ranks. I’m all for scrapping the system or at least making it invisible. But I don’t think it segregated anyone

[rigid crescent]

All in publics only of course, since the only friend on my alt is myself lol

[umbral reef]

The ghosting and shader comment rokk, was that about ghosto?

[median basalt]

Yes @umbral reef

[covert blade]

Alternative: Don't show the rank

[umbral reef]

If you actually used that brain you can use as you have shown you can list loads of reasons as to why he left

Same applies for me lmao

[languid beacon]

Yeah just make rank invisible and have the only way to hide content is by performance rank

[median basalt]

@umbral reef I don't like making assumptions, sorry. I was under the impression that people can act like adults in this community and explain themselves when asked. Apparently that doesn't apply to Ghosto though.

[rigid crescent]

from actual surveying it jsut doesnt seem like as big of a deal as people here, and its mainly just here, make it out to be

[median basalt]

He never said why he left

[umbral reef]

He said directly as to why he left. I asked a week later and got the same exact answer. How is that assuming things?

[covert blade]

@languid beacon Hiding certain features from avatars goes beyond performance

[median basalt]

When did he say why he left, Oclac? Is this a thing you need to be active for in the VRC Discord 24/7? Because I have a life and I can't obsessively hang out here 24/7.

I asked him and he literally did not respond to me

[languid beacon]

Yeah but we only need friends and non-friends

[covert blade]

Yup

[umbral reef]

Id love to get you some direct links or screen caps but thank svel

[rigid crescent]

There's no paranoia, there's no fear. this is just a tangent you go on every month or so....

[median basalt]

Wdym "thank Svel" lol

[umbral reef]

He kicked me from BM so i cant get the screenies for you

[median basalt]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

His last messages in BM are all completely unrelated

[languid beacon]

All rank levels does is make it take a few seconds longer to hide/show things for all non-friend ranks

[median basalt]

And yeah people aren't cleaning out friends or avatars anymore because it can get you deranked, how's that for paranoia lol

[languid beacon]

I just say screw it and do that stuff anyway

But then again I hide as green

[rigid crescent]

lol "anymore" because clearing out friendslist was always common

[median basalt]

It was

[languid beacon]

So if I drop to orange who cares

[indigo fern]

I just put people I join often in the favorites and don't look in the regular online list anymore lmao

[languid beacon]

Green is all you need

[ornate finch]

people cleaning friendslist is pretty common in like every game

some don't some do

[rigid crescent]

People like to "collect" friends in this game for some reason

[umbral reef]

And also rokk, its not odd you get in drama often as your personality just like me is a magnet for these things. (Blunt, staight forward and dont beat around the bush, its something people cant accept.)
Also again, use that brain you can properly use unlike most to just guess even why ghost would leave a server and the way people acted towards him in the discord.

[rigid crescent]

i mean go out and actually ask people what they think about the system instead of just assuming they share your belief on it. Like I've been doing it these last 2days more than before

Misinformation has nothing to do with personal experience, which is what this is about.

[languid beacon]

Guys I saw some gkhjdjgkgf on my loading screen am I hacked with a ddos modified virus client

[covert blade]

"Destroy peoples mental state" What?

[ornate finch]

just because most people publicly display no discrimination for trust ranks doesn't mean it doesn't have an underlying affect on peoples decision making or perception

and the real question is why is the trust rank system in place if it doesn't hold much value atm?

[rigid crescent]

It feels like you're one of the few people this damaged by it, which is fine, you're you, but you can't assume thats a shared experience across the majority

[umbral reef]

Tbh, cant really argue against just removing the name plate colors atleast.

[languid beacon]

I do agree there people do seem to treat me differently when I show the purple tag. I find they are actually less talkative. This is the main reason I just keep it green

[rigid crescent]

Like every time this topic comes up, you act like everyone who hasnt rank up is poor, downtrodden, afflicted, and generally abused users who can never find their way because of publics and the ranks somehow preventing it

I am ALWAYS green. ALWAYS, and yet I see none of this. While my experience isn't indicative of the majority, the experiences I've been asking about definitely count for something more than my own obviously biased one

[languid beacon]

Well that’s the point you don’t see it when you are green

[rigid crescent]

meanwhile im sitting here watching a stick of butter tell fat yoshi about his day

[ornate finch]

i'm pretty much ALWAYS play green aswell so 🤷 i don't really see what you're getting at

[rigid crescent]

I dont see it on my alt either, i jsut got approached by someone asking to touch my shoulders

[ornate finch]

just because you don't "see" it doesn't mean it doesn't have any sort of implication to the current system

[rigid crescent]

and this is me as a desktop blue. she poked a stud my avatar apparently has on my shoudler and was like "ow owch it stabbed me!" and did a cute little RP thing

[lyric urchin]

i don't even know my rank, i usually don't pay attention

[languid beacon]

Yeah I’m going to go out on a limb and say Rank is unrelated

[rigid crescent]

But again, one of us cares enough to ask about the experiences of others and youre just kind of project it....

[ornate finch]

anyways again i don't see much of an argument "for" rank

[languid beacon]

I try not to scare off greys or make bad impressions but that’s about it everyone else is the same

[ornate finch]

and if it's necessary it could probably be invisible without any of us caring

[rigid crescent]

While im fine with its removal, the urgency of it isnt as big as a few people here make it seem is all

[covert blade]

Remove all ranks except visitor, user and friend. Visitor stays visitor, User would have upload perms (replaces New User) and friend remains unchanged.

[ornate finch]

yeah sure it isn't urgent but i'm just expressing a bit of my opinion

[frosty veldt]

One benefit is to use less vrchat jargon when talking with Grey's or blues

[rigid crescent]

nor are the bad experiences people are having with it

[ornate finch]

i personally stress optimization above pretty much everything else

[rigid crescent]

Im literally watching two dudes talk about work schedules, i think they're german or something maybe austrian

[languid beacon]

I see plenty of normal conversations

What topics are you looking to talk about

Well that’s hard to talk about

[lyric urchin]

trains are pretty fun to talk about, if you are into that kind of stuff

[languid beacon]

If a convo you like doesn’t exist start t yourself

For example; all humans have the same topology as a donut

[rigid crescent]

and just got done talking to three people, 3 different ranks. One thinks it was better before (the purple) while the other two havent really noticed any issues. like its that easy

[lyric urchin]

the fuck do you mean a donut
edit: oh my god i am a donut

[rigid crescent]

one orange, one green

the constant seems to be that older players have an issue with it while newer (post trust system) users dont see to have too mcuh of a prob

[frosty veldt]

Criteria of being a veteran is being grumpy

[languid beacon]

Then just hide purple tag and become a face in the crowd it’s simple

They were all green before

I like seeing new users

It’s useful to know who can’t use private pedistals (blue) or upload (grey) yet

[rigid crescent]

its actually harder than i thought approaching people about this seeing as the groups im seeing are having conversations, something that supposedly doesnt exist either 🤔

[frosty veldt]

Fucking peristalsis lmao

Auto correct is wack

[rigid crescent]

i hate interrupting randos for dumb questions like "so rank bad or rank good or rank not matter?" lol

[craggy flume]

To me it doesn't matter

[languid beacon]

“I don’t know and I don’t care” is going to be the most common response

[frosty veldt]

Are you trying to say not everyone dissects the patch notes?

[rigid crescent]

So one neat thing, i just spotted someone i recognized from twitter in a pub lol

this morning has been surprisingly interesting

[languid beacon]

This is the official discord. We are all power users to some degree. We obsess over vrchat way more than most people. We care about things that don’t matter to regular users. This isn’t a good sample. Our opinions are not representative. Inconvenient but true.

[rigid crescent]

Yup, exactly.

That's the main reason I think actually surveying users in publics will give you a better representation of the "Average" use

I always hear the "discrimination" argument from older users, meanwhile I rarely hear complaints of it happening from the people who are supposedly discriminated against.

but sadly the pugs are starting to just give me the same few so i gotta hit up a new map

[umbral reef]

Tbh, the longer the play the easier you can recall the bad events as they happened more towards you.
For a new user one bad experience might suck but the 4 fun ones are what sticks
For the guy who stayed for ages the 10K bad ones are what sticks instead of the 40K good ones

[craggy flume]

I used to be a regular in open mic night but seems most everyone I hang out with is always in private worlds

[languid beacon]

I will say I hear “I only block purples lol” far more than anything else, so much I have a image macro on hand for whenever I hear it

[vocal shard]

@languid beacon are u saying that regular users don't "understand" how to play vrchat or something?

[languid beacon]

No

Not even that so much

[vocal shard]

i see

[languid beacon]

We argue over the color of the tool shed, if you know that reference

[ornate finch]

i prefer red

[vocal shard]

i see what u mean

[craggy flume]

If rank wasn't color related would it actually change things?

[frosty veldt]

My shed is purple and has 1000 hours

[rigid crescent]

A lot of the issues to the minority really arent issues for the regular users. I think I fit into that category a bit better despite being here. I just want to be able to hang out with my friends and watch movies, and make new friends, three things i'm able to do with the game in its current state

[vocal shard]

i don't think that the colours must be a thing

[rigid crescent]

I agree they don't serve much purpose, but I just don't see them as some great evil that prevents people from socializing and maknig friends either

[craggy flume]

Idk why they don't put custom color name plates let players decide

[languid beacon]

XD I knew no one would understand that metaphor. Point is hardcore users will obsess over things that don’t actually matter

[vocal shard]

i understand u @rigid crescent

well, for me the graphic in game matters, i like to look at good graphics and the cam sensibility or mouse etc

[rigid crescent]

Lack of oversight and privatized?

[past cosmos]

@vocal shard back home with ya 😛

[rigid crescent]

The events things can be fixed, if overseas users wanted to mkae events for other oversea users

[languid beacon]

Most vrchat users are private groups that jump worlds to explore privately and don’t interact with the public at any point

They don’t intend to

[rigid crescent]

that's a bit hard to judge since they count friends+ rooms as private in the usercount for worlds

[median basalt]

@umbral reef well you keep mentioning "use your brain" but my brain just tells me that Ghosto abandoned us because he's a cunt. 🤷

Like it's obvious that Ghosto talked to you and now you know why he left. The rest of us don't.

[frosty veldt]

I would count friends+ as 'not interacting with the public'

[languid beacon]

Friends+ is, in the big picture, private. Most users can’t connect.

[median basalt]

Nobody acted hostile towards Ghosto in BM

We literally emotionally supported the guy when he had tough times

[rigid crescent]

Friends+ rooms are very public. if there's 5 people in a friends+ and any one of them has 3 friends join, you've already got degrees of separation that can bring in peopel youve never met

i mean, you're banned from friends+ when youre public banned too

[languid beacon]

Is ghosto the pirate adventure map guy or is that someone else

[umbral reef]

Didnt ya? Pretty sure you did, same reason why loads have left in the past.

[median basalt]

"Loads"? Name a few more Oclac

[inner cape]

Enough of this

[median basalt]

Most people who left, they left because of Sai (some came back)

Like bread and korbo

[rigid crescent]

The community manages events within the community...

[languid beacon]

Oh that ghosto!

[inner cape]

Just, stop

[rigid crescent]

That kinda makes sense to me?

[umbral reef]

And hostile isnt just being staight toxic towards him but other comments and behaviors
And i wont keep this petty stuff up, you got the chat so look true it for once

[median basalt]

Like literally calling us judgmental but then also saying "these people are too gay" in a judgmental manner

[vocal shard]

Ah , good old vrchat community. Drama

[rigid crescent]

I joined a fun workout group run by a community member, they work out 3 times a day. I usually go in the AM since im nocturnal now. Was literally just there today.

[median basalt]

Ok then

[rigid crescent]

It's just that easy.

[languid beacon]

I needed to see icon I’m bad with names

[median basalt]

Ghosting your (former) friends is a dick move, even if you feel like your reasons are valid. If I left like that I would at least feel like I owed them an explanation

[rigid crescent]

Far as I know, there's no requirement to add something to the event calendar either right?

[median basalt]

I only ever got contacted when he needed something from me and I have the DM history to prove it

[rigid crescent]

Says you can message VRPill to get an event added

But lack of events is more of a community issue, one solved by....planning events lol

Why should Tupper be the one to tell me when we're having Anime Trivia Night or something?

[ornate finch]

cause he's anime

[snow wadi]

And he's Tupper

[rigid crescent]

The movie theater world has a discord with a rank specifically for events, if anyone wanted to ,they can @ that rank and organize get togethers, maybe even scheduled ones, and make it a thing. It just kinda feels like if I want an event, shouldn't I be the one to create and plan it?

[umbral reef]

Also the fact there is a full events discord server...

[rigid crescent]

There are absolutely private-ish events, but even the one weekly one I attend is invite+, so it just takes a request and a total stranger the host doesnt even know can join in

[eternal locust]

where can i ask questions?

[umbral reef]

How else can they advertise it in a way that people can still host them without being flooded/split into loads of rooms.

[rigid crescent]

Clunky? A page of every single scheduled event on the main website is clunky? 🤔

[desert stratus]

anywhere, depending on what your question is

[vestal pier]

@eternal locust considering you just asked a question, here.

[rigid crescent]

It seems very, very visible. It's on their website and the discord. Where else do yo uthink it should go?

[languid beacon]

Hm that does seem to be an issue. I’ve been here a year and I didn’t even know vRc had events

[umbral reef]

@eternal locust Depending what you want to ask you can do it in here, #user-support-old or #avatars-2-general (or even #world-development )

[eternal locust]

ha yes ik

@vestal pier

[median basalt]

@umbral reef we didn't act hostile towards Ghosto and hardly anyone left, "loads left in the past" is an exaggeration. There was an exodus that was literally caused because people couldn't stand Sai anymore. And that's pretty much the only people who left by themselves.

[rigid crescent]

How can we make it more visible, rather, so that more people can see it and join and even schedule their own events?

[hushed cargo]

Just out of curiosity,.does anyone happen to know why all the video players are having issues with certain videos? Is it like... Special characters in the url, or, like, the encoding or...? o.o

[median basalt]

yt-dl has issues

Youtube is trying to stop their videos from being played in games like VRC in this manner

[rigid crescent]

Because right now I feel like the schedule is in the two best places it could possibly be.

[hushed cargo]

Ooooo, but, that's just embedding , and they promote it usually??

Oh prolly cuz it skips ads, huh

[median basalt]

Yepp

[umbral reef]

@median basalt Its neat how you forget people from the earlier days that left because of bullshit and just take the one that fits your agenda
But as i said, i got better things to do then be petty in this discord, you guys got your place so shit talk there instead of here. That i talk bad about people from there is my thing, not others from here. Feel free to return the favor but dont try to act like you never did anything wrong or toxic.

[stray temple]

YouTube recently changed format of url which cause issue.

[rigid crescent]

https://vrchat.com/events there's all kinds here

[median basalt]

@umbral reef name some examples then lol

I already asked you

I may be toxic on occasion but at least I'm honest and don't talk shit behind people's backs.

[pastel sedge]

patch

nicejoke

[languid beacon]

Please patch out the SDK DDOS TOS DMCA exploit I don’t know what these letters are but they are scary

[rigid crescent]

im pretty happy where the game as at the moment so any new stuff is always a nice improvement

[pastel sedge]

if you cant handle being vunrabal, get off the internet lmao

[rigid crescent]

like 2FA I guess, that'd be nice if it can lead to making multiple accounts harder

[pastel sedge]

2fa is already in lmao

[stray temple]

Agree

[vestal pier]

2fa is already in, btw

its just not forced yet

[pastel sedge]

why get it forced

thats a terrable idea yikes

[languid beacon]

I hope it is never forced, I can’t do it

[vestal pier]

to stop cheaters making new free accounts :)

[pastel sedge]

sounds like a you problem

[stray temple]

huhhh

[median basalt]

They could also just moderate the game, but what do I know?

[languid beacon]

Unless they add a method where you don’t need a phone

[pastel sedge]

somepeople dont even have phones lmao, it'd be the worst idea to force it

[vestal pier]

both would be nice, rokk

[median basalt]

They should patch out the thing where you can grab IP addresses since it's literally useless. It's only an issue when running with Steam so obviously it's not necessary.

But "IP's are expected to be public"

[pastel sedge]

you cant patch out ip grabs

[median basalt]

I'm sure the devs would be pretty pissed if their IP's were revealed though

Sure you can, you can't grab the IP from oculus clients.

[pastel sedge]

You're wrong lmao

[median basalt]

The IP is only leaked due to some old Steam-specific stuff and apparently doesn't even happen when running without Steam

The game uses photon for networking and ain't entirely P2P

[vestal pier]

Yeah, pretty sure the audio engine they use provides IPS on a silver platter

[median basalt]

Yes

[vestal pier]

regardless of platform

[median basalt]

They can at least try to make it more difficult

They clearly don't see it as a priority

[pastel sedge]

i do forget how meny stupid people play this game, feelsbad, gonna go back to working lmao

[umbral reef]

More difficult just means it takes longer for one person to find the way around it though--

[vestal pier]

Sounds like a you problem 😄 @pastel sedge

[median basalt]

Well you can't grab IP's through Discord calls I believe

[languid beacon]

Video media is always gonna reveal ip though ?

[median basalt]

So they just need to change up the voice networking a bit

Only the server should know your IP since the game isn't P2P

[languid beacon]

Any external data like video streaming is gonna show up the IP

[still lark]

What if I throw a pano in my world and grab IPs? :P

[median basalt]

Yeah but that's at least more effort

In that sense you can't expect them to protect from that

But right now you can join the box and instantly get ddosed if some kid wants to and has the resources to.

[vestal pier]

If you join the box you deserve it 🙃

[rigid crescent]

LOL

tru

[median basalt]

Also still waiting for Oclac to give me examples of those people who supposedly left due to the toxicity :^)

[flat charm]

@pastel sedge damn, that sounds like a you problem

[still lark]

Alright Rokk, as much as I enjoy drama, stop poking it. :P

[median basalt]

Right, sorry

I wouldn't say security is a waste of focus as long as it's done properly and doesn't hamper the game in any way

[vestal pier]

Forced 2FA is what we need 😉

[rigid crescent]

the hero we need

[faint skiff]

I mean you could just prove a point and DDoS Tupper every single time he joins the game until he admits that maybe your IP being immediately available to everyone isn't a good idea. I mean my address is public information for people that I want to send things to me but I don't publish it for everyone on the internet to see - people go as far as to call that "Doxing".

[median basalt]

Old code is always a bother

[languid beacon]

Forced 2FA is how you kill a platform

[median basalt]

Yeah that's what I was referring to lol @faint skiff

They probably wouldn't say "public info" if it actually negatively affected them.

Hell, if it affects Ron it will get fixed.

[vestal pier]

How exactly would 2FA being forced kill the game

[languid beacon]

If I find a random free to play game that demands my phone number to sign up it’s getting immediately uninstalled

[median basalt]

Ron suddenly had a change of heart about avatar audio limits as soon as he realized this would kill the avatar particle shows that he likes so much.

[vestal pier]

Oh, i mean force it once you get your uploading privs

[still lark]

2FA doesn't require your phone number?!
wtf

[median basalt]

What does it require then? Just email?

[vestal pier]

no, A phone

[rigid crescent]

he uses a VPN

[languid beacon]

Every 2FA I’ve seen needs a phone number

[snow wadi]

It needs your phone

[median basalt]

Literally just a phone, not a phone number? What?

[rigid crescent]

the whole reason they're like "eh its your ip chill fam" is because they use VPNs in the first place 🤔

[snow wadi]

And if you lose your phone, you lose your account.

[vestal pier]

Not true There are recovery keys

[rigid crescent]

recovery keys?

[languid beacon]

Needing a smartphone app is still requiring a phone number, just by proxy

[rigid crescent]

this isnt the stone age m8

[median basalt]

@languid beacon nope, you can have phones without numbers

And emulators, or even just an API client

[rigid crescent]

i have a phone without a number sitting right next o me

[still lark]

Not really, you can download desktop apps to do 2FA

[rigid crescent]

a Galaxy S2

[still lark]

"Authy" as an example.

[median basalt]

In that case forcing 2FA is literally useless. Like, literally.

[snow wadi]

I have 2 phones...with numbers...next to me >_>

[median basalt]

There is no point in forcing 2FA if you can run a desktop application to act as the mobile app.

[still lark]

It's actually useless since you can so very easily pump them out.

[vestal pier]

the auth uses google authenticator specifically

[languid beacon]

Oh in that case I personally wouldn’t be blocked from forced 2FA, but it’s still a terrible idea

[vestal pier]

which is tied to a device iirc

[ruby needle]

Thats bullshit Rokk

[median basalt]

How so?

[ruby needle]

while you want to separate it if possible

[still lark]

See: https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/setup-2fa

[ruby needle]

a Desktop app 2FA still has another layer of security

[median basalt]

Steam forces 2FA and all it does is force people to use desktop apps that emulate the Steam app functionality.

There is no point in forcing 2FA for anything.

It's good that it's there

[languid beacon]

Forced 2FA is just going to make people not try vrchat

[median basalt]

But there is no value in enforcing it, especially if you don't require a phone number.

[vestal pier]

How Adeon?

[median basalt]

Yep, that too. Anyone can hop into VRC on a guest account for example.

[faint skiff]

Would 2FA mean I need my phone every time I want to load VRC though?

[snow wadi]

People who are complaining about 2fa...are the people I'm actually suspicious about...

[ruby needle]

every time you need to enter your login usually

[median basalt]

Imagine if you needed to link a phone number just to try some free game. I'd be out in a second.

[vestal pier]

No, only if the app forgets your login token

[languid beacon]

If you honestly think random users are going to give away their phone numbers to play a f2p game you are delusional

[vestal pier]

@languid beacon Just make people use 2FA when they get upload privs, aka like 20 or 40 hours in

[faint skiff]

Because that would be a pain in the ass with VR, heh.

[vestal pier]

its also not a phone number as previously stated multiple times @languid beacon

[rigid crescent]

Or to do your first upload you have to 2FA

if you dont want to, you can just use public avatars forever. theres thousands tbh

[faint skiff]

@languid beacon It uses a third party app to handle it AFAIK, so not your phone number.

[median basalt]

Nah, that would bring in the same issues. It doesn't add any value.

[vestal pier]

Disagree.

[languid beacon]

Still needs a smartphone

[median basalt]

Crashers and malicious people would just develop a desktop app to simulate the 2FA.

[snow wadi]

Also for VR, just log into vrchat desktop mode to put in the 2fa, then exit and relaunch in VR. Problem solved.

[median basalt]

You don't "need" a smartphone for anything. A smartphone app communicates with VRC's servers, all you would have to do is make a desktop app that pretends it's the phone app. Or use any android emulator.

[vestal pier]

you can still use your keyboard while in vr, Qhala.

[languid beacon]

Oh yes that too. Please let’s make log in even more annoying for vr

[vestal pier]

The app is made by google, @median basalt Rokk. not vrc

[faint skiff]

@snow wadi Not really, considering I normally play other games in VR before loading VRChat

[still lark]

It's an option so niceu

[faint skiff]

That would still require me to come out of VR first, do some stuff then go back in

[median basalt]

Options are cool and good, forcing is bad

[snow wadi]

@vestal pier I know but numpad is far quicker!

[median basalt]

Oh

[snow wadi]

Also saves me from having to remove my headset to see my phone to punch in the auth code

[still lark]

You know what's quicker than numpad? Clicking the copy button and then pasting into the field.

[languid beacon]

Look don’t believe me all you want. You want concurrency to drop? Force F2A. By all means do it just please print-screen this message

[vestal pier]

I dont think you are listening at all adeon but ok.

[languid beacon]

Make log in annoying and concurrency will drop

[vestal pier]

Incorrect

[faint skiff]

Not being able to log in would definitely have an affect, lol

[vestal pier]

You can still log in

2FA is fine if you force it on people who are already playing, and new people arent impacted at all. only ask for 2FA when people hit their mark of being able to upload its very simple.

[snow wadi]

I mean 2Fa was optional for me, I chose to enable it.

[languid beacon]

So long as I can give up my upload rights to avoid f2A I’m fine

[vestal pier]

i think thats fair trade.

[languid beacon]

I’ll just upload on a different account that never logs in

[snow wadi]

But my honest opinion? People complaining about this are blowing it out of proportion.

[rigid crescent]

like everything else 😃

[snow wadi]

It's not affecting your livelihood xD

[vestal pier]

oh no i have to wait an extra 10 seconds to log in, this game is dead and dying i hate vrtupper

[snow wadi]

lol

[languid beacon]

Super shortsighted

[vestal pier]

You are, absolutely.

[languid beacon]

Making log in a pain is the main reason people just pick a different game

[vestal pier]

Incorrect.

[languid beacon]

I’m not going to go get my phone to play vrchat

It’s in my car

[umbral reef]

2FA is to protect users, not the game...

[snow wadi]

There are alot of games that have 2Fa or FORCED 2FA, good luck out there! ❤

[rigid crescent]

1200 dollars worth of hardware? NO PROBLEM! Go grab my phone from the car? GAme's DEAD

[languid beacon]

Dude there’s plenty of vr games to play besides vrchat

[vestal pier]

i think you are looking at this very anecdotally Adeon, not everyone (very few people) leave their phones in their car.

[rigid crescent]

I mean i'll forget mine sometimes, then i'll go get it because....its my phone

when I needed it for FF14, I'd go get it

[final zodiac]

I can't do 2fa cause I change phone number every month

[shell nova]

Hoi

[vestal pier]

Its not dependant of phone number, you can.

[final zodiac]

Oh good

[languid beacon]

I can’t do 2FA because my phone will brick at any time

[rigid crescent]

Doesn't FF14 have forced 2fa?

[ornate finch]

no

[rigid crescent]

oh its optional nvm

[languid beacon]

And I have hard horror stories of people refusing to let people in when locked out of 2FA

[rigid crescent]

i guess i just activated it for some reason

just keep your recovery code?

[vestal pier]

Anecdotal evidence isnt equal to fact, adeon.

[rigid crescent]

i still have my FF14 one actually lol i havent played since vanilla

[languid beacon]

What’s the point of a recovery code if you don’t have a phone

[median basalt]

Don't you guys have phones?

[rigid crescent]

the 50 vrchat players without phones will have to suffer, sadly

[languid beacon]

Ha it was funny when rokk said it tho

[vestal pier]

the 50 players of vrchat who dont have phones and dont contribute to the ecosystem wont be missed

[ornate finch]

pretty sure some people overseas don't

[alpine crater]

you can do 2FA without phones, it's just generally easier to do securely with them

[languid beacon]

Bye I guess lol. Thankfully I know it won’t happen

[alpine crater]

things like a Yubikey can generate codes with a desktop app just like phone 2FA

but very few regular gamers have one

[vestal pier]

Its based on google auth, im not sure how simple that is to spoof.

[alpine crater]

it's a generic TOTP code, not specific to google

[languid beacon]

Vr is so easy just put the headset on and play your game oh and take it off open this app on your phone remember this number and quickly put the headset on and type in the number before time runs out go go go

[alpine crater]

pretty much all phone code generators can accept that format and scan the QR code

[umbral reef]

Why would you force 2FA thats appbased though?
Rokk's comments about being able to PC host an andriod build with just that app (or multiple even) isnt hard to do and can almost be automated even.

[vestal pier]

Oh im reading into it now, for your specific case @languid beacon its a simple fix, you set up 2FA once, then download google auth on pc, connect the accounds and you can get 2FA login codes on your pc without ever needing your phone, while it still being secure and tied to your mobile device!

[alpine crater]

to anyone complaining that it's phone only, you can generate them on a desktop too

[vestal pier]

^ he rite

[alpine crater]

Authy has a desktop app that does it and accepts 2FA setup from a QR code just like a phone

[umbral reef]

That also even ^

[languid beacon]

If you expect users to do this you are delusional

[vestal pier]

I think you are projecting, friend.

[languid beacon]

Staff isn’t tho so they won’t

[alpine crater]

adeon, it's meant to be a second line of defense, not an inconvenience

most likely they will add a "remember this PC" option

[umbral reef]

2FA is a security option for users.
Not a way to limit bad people from making more accounts.

[alpine crater]

meaning you'll only have to do it once in a while

[vestal pier]

It has the adverse effect of limiting accounts too Oclac.

[umbral reef]

It does not.

[vestal pier]

It do

[languid beacon]

I agree oclac but they people here are saying it shouldn’t be an option

[alpine crater]

2FA doesn't limit account creation

[umbral reef]

Most phones can 'mirror' most apps, loads of apps that can handle more then one 2fa from the same app for different accounts even...

[alpine crater]

if VRchat devs decide to limit one phone number to one account, that's their decision, not a limitation of phone-based 2FA

[vestal pier]

thats true actually

i suppose we need mobile number 2fa then ;)

[alpine crater]

I have 2FA codes for 4 discord accounts on my phone

[polar elm]

I would not mind 2fa. Would stop alot of malicious stuff

[alpine crater]

all of them different accounts with the same phone number for 2FA

[languid beacon]

2FA stops account theft. It does not stop troll alt accounts.

[vestal pier]

with the current implementation yeah

[languid beacon]

It’s not meant to

[umbral reef]

Blueasis, just repeating that it could be used for it does not make it an option.

[ornate finch]

i'd rather see optimization than a hypothetical situation in which 2fa would be effective if they actually banned/moderated their game

[alpine crater]

it potentially could have an effect on them, if you could only link a phone number to one account, maybe it would dissuade people from using that linked account to troll

but that's their decision as devs

[vestal pier]

What do you mean Oclac?

Did i say something could be anything

[vestal sleet]

Making the game less accessable is not something the dev would want

[vestal pier]

I forgot about the fact you can do multiple 2FA thingers, i said you were right 😄

[umbral reef]

You suggested SMS 2fa
The whole internet makes clear that its only an option if app 2fa cant be done.
Same applies for forcing users to use 2fa.
Saying they can change some things with it wont make it a right option to limit troll users.

[alpine crater]

you can do both though?

[languid beacon]

Yeah there is some confusion here

[vestal pier]

I was mostly joking, fyi

[alpine crater]

I can sign into my microsoft account with either a 2FA code sent via SMS or generated via an app on my phone/desktop

or even with a security key plugged in via USB

[languid beacon]

2FA required to upload content 👌
2FA required to signup/login 🤡

[umbral reef]

SMS is mainly a legacy option programs provide.
USB and appbased are the properly secured options for 2fa.

[rigid crescent]

https://puu.sh/DU1wu/c4f57ef44e.mp4 :3 it me

[vestal pier]

actually, thats me.

[alpine crater]

SMS is also vulnerable to hijacking attacks but that's out of the threat model for vrchat

[rigid crescent]

the bunny in the back that is not hwoarang

[vestal pier]

all of the appearances in this video are infact me

on multiple accounts at once

[umbral reef]

@alpine crater Large scale yes but specific user based (aka the ones where 2fa is second most important to) are SOL.

[rigid crescent]

vrskynet

[alpine crater]

what I meant @umbral reef is that if someone can hijack your SMS messages to get your 2FA codes, chances are they're after bigger targets than just your vrchat accounts and have access to other things like email, social media and possibly bank

so it's fairly pointless worrying about SMS hijacking in VRchat's context

not that it's not a valid security concern

like trying to save a tree while the forest burns

okay security nerd time over

[umbral reef]

Again, no point in keeping it and having it while better, easier to use (in plenty of cases) and even more safe options are out there...

[languid beacon]

Yeah I hate that services even allow verification via SMS

[covert blade]

https://i.imgur.com/QLCRTBV.png So that exists apparently

[still lark]

People have seen 10k. xd

[covert blade]

wat

Honestly there were just some bandages as dynamic bones

How can that require so many collision checks. It barely even moved when I touched it

[rigid crescent]

only 3k? those are rookie numbers!

i think 7200 is the highest ive seen personally ingame

[covert blade]

First time me seeing such a high number for collision checks

Other than the 70+ material slots for avatars with simple colors

Honestly, how can some avatars use so many material slots? For what even

[rigid crescent]

usually lazy shit from that one site we dont talk about

people adding unoptimized assets on top of unoptimized avatars

[covert blade]

oof

Seriously sometimes I look at the stats because it says very poor and I'm like, Why is it using so much of that when it barely does anything

[rigid crescent]

yeah, im guessing things like belt buckles, shoe buckles, soles, socks, clothes, buttons, etc are all separates

so they just drag the mat to each of them instaed of just atlasing it

[languid beacon]

They put the dynamic bones on everything and then put an exception on the obvious stuff that shouldn’t be dynamic. Everything else stays dynamic. Ask more why they have 1000 bones.

[uncut crag]

my wmr is stuck on 29 percent downloaded

what do I do

[snow wadi]

You mean in vrchat?

[lyric urchin]

mine got stuck too installing hefty, it took a while to install

[vocal shard]

can someone help me find a avatar that has some decent effects i can only find ones that have the eyes and ears moving, i want to see effects you know?

or recommand a avatar place for me to go?

[tepid flint]

ho

[small wing]

@vocal shard Check out Toga and Ikita's world.

They have some pretty neat stuff there last I checked.

Some of my own avatar world's have some neat shader effect's as well if you are looking for some practical stuff like fire shaders and music visuals.

[vocal shard]

just search them?

ye

[small wing]

Yeah, Toga's world should pop up in search.

[vocal shard]

i am

[small wing]

My next shader is going to let people force unity fog on an avatar 😏

Well, as close to unity fog as I can remake.

Just gotta clamp some fade out distance so people wont use it to annoy people.

[vocal shard]

hmm

do i need a vr headset to use effects?

[small wing]

Nope

[vocal shard]

just shift f5?

[small wing]

Use left or right shift for both hands and press F1 up to F9 i think

[wary rover]

hello ~

[unkempt cliff]

Anybody know why a world would get published and then lab'd again the next day? I spoke about this issue a bit ago but didn't get many answers so I'm asking again. Sorry if it's a bother. It has only happened to one of my worlds.

[small wing]

Was there any reports?

It could be that.

You can check and see by going to the world in the website

[unkempt cliff]

There is only 1 report, but I was told before that it's just what happens whenever a world is uploaded to labs. All my other uploaded worlds also have 1, which aligns with that statement.

Yeah, that's what I'm looking at.

[small wing]

I would shoot a message to [e-mail] and let them know then, seems like it could be the API breaking things.

This isn't the first time someone had this issue so I assume its common.

[unkempt cliff]

Alright, thanks.

[small wing]

Good luck!

[tacit plank]

All worlds display 1 report. Did you update it? That seems to reset the "release" progress

[opaque hawk]

That is correct

[unkempt cliff]

Update, world is published now.

Noe got my back

[covert blade]

The sad moment when you have friends with the Quest and I realize that literally none of my avatars are quest ready.

Btw does anyone have an idea why some of my friends are randomly muted even though I never muted them?

Like I wanted to join someone I've added on Discord and for some reason I had the option to unmute even though we haven't met ingame before.

[vocal shard]

are u sure that they aren't muted?

have u checked?

[covert blade]

Eh?

The reason I'm confused is because so far two people from my friends list were muted, or at least when I wanted to join them, there was the "Unmute" button.

So apparently, they were muted, but the first person couldn't even speak and I've never met the second person ingame before.

[sly fiber]

If i clear my cache will I love my favorited avatars and downloaded ones? i have 10gb of cache lmao

[covert blade]

No

[sly fiber]

k thx bb

[true sky]

This has been happening for several updates. If they don't show as muted and can hear them, you don't have to press unmute.

[covert blade]

Favorites stay as they are bound to your account. You'll just have to redownload the data gain

[sly fiber]

ok

[covert blade]

Huh oh I see so the thingy was just bugged?

The menu was lying to me?

[true sky]

Yep

I get it all the time

[covert blade]

Fun

[vocal shard]

so any eta on the fix for social tab?

[languid beacon]

Is anyone else getting DM’s from a member here who is begging for nitro? I won’t mention who it is I just want to make sure it’s not server wide spam

[indigo fern]

Yea lmao

[umbral reef]

Aw shit i didnt get one yet :c

[indigo fern]

Uh, bahka got one, I didn't 😔

You know how famous he is

[ruby needle]

if you can send me a dm showing the message and that they are on our discord i can take care of that

[umbral reef]

We aint cool enough n8 💔

[indigo fern]

Ohhh, wait I know why, he nitro boosted the server

[cold talon]

👌

[indigo fern]

They went for nitro boosters since they're the top

[umbral reef]

Ayy

[cold talon]

Shhhh

Don't take tis away form me

[indigo fern]

We solved the mystery 👏

[ruby needle]

Well, they just exposed them self in #vrchat-general-1 ... handled

[cold talon]

Also when they see it's a diffrent color from green some peps listen better, and don't tend to, "huur duur ur no purple, you don't know uhhhh"

[ruby needle]

Buying reputation

[indigo fern]

Everyone knows purple is trusted, cmon

Blue new user, green regular user

[queen mango]

Still Known User in VRChat

[indigo fern]

Yellow are friends, coincidence that's the colors of the roles in discord? I don't think so

[cold talon]

Still user
But hey it matches green

[ruby needle]

N8 pls

[opaque hawk]

I’ll never tell