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#vrchat-general-2
strange wagon
π
vocal shard
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strange wagon
public erp hm
vocal shard
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strange wagon
most ppl that erp are straight
vocal shard
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Yeah stuff like that should be reported to moderation if you find people doing that in public instances.
fervent patio
Howβs the unity upgrade change? Did it mess with everyoneβs avatars? Iβm alittle lazy to upgrade unity and re-upload avatars π but I will if I have to tonight.
strange wagon
i wouldn't be disturbed by something like that π
vocal shard
It's not a full unity upgrade like last time. Just a small update with bug fixes @fervent patio
round mortar
@vocal shard I don't care, that's your business
placid umbra
@fervent patio Shouldn't change anything with avatars, just a bunch of fixes.
odd beacon
is the SDK version supposed to be 2019.06.14.09.00?
vocal shard
@round mortar I was just saying cause you said it was pride month
fervent patio
Okay thanks! Is there a significant point for me to upgrade my unity?
quick kayak
@round mortar How dare you, Kappa.
round mortar
@vocal shard good for you, did you see that vr episode of Black Mirror
strange wagon
@vocal shard are you vegan too π
ancient kindle
π i had avatar issues all day today, even before the update
when you udate avatars and they end up having parts of both new and the old version
π€
vocal shard
It's best to have it match the game version. It also fixes some security exploits of the old unity version
@strange wagon I'm NOT vegan XD
ancient kindle
reuploaded with new blueprint and havent checked
placid umbra
There was a security issue with older Unity versions, so it's definitely a good idea to update
strange wagon
π
fervent patio
Security? Like avatar stealing? π
strange wagon
@placid umbra did the outline issue get fixed? π
round mortar
The unity store issue or something else?
fervent patio
Ah okay, thanks for the info guys ^~^
strange wagon
tint is automatically activated. it's only visible once you upload
so you gotta enable, remove the tint to fix it usually
idle nova
The one that we needed the Mitigation tool for
strange wagon
not really that bad of an issue, but it's been an issue since the big unity ugrade
placid umbra
It was an editor exploit, we posted about it here as a warning when it happened and Unity provided a mitigation tool
I'm not familiar with the tint bug, is that shader specific?
vocal shard
One message removed from a suspended account.
strange wagon
happens to me on flat lit toon
strange wagon
always have to activate the tint and remove the outline so it doesnt show up π€
vocal shard
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One message removed from a suspended account.
placid umbra
Strange, I'd recommend posting to Canny if that's a VRChat-provided shader
vocal shard
Happy Pride month bitches lmfao
vocal shard
@strange wagon Bitch who you callin' a fake?
strange wagon
ayee
quick kayak
That's a good way of getting banned.
vocal shard
What
true sky
π€¦
strange wagon
π
shell marsh
Moment of silence for the mutes that have to use a pen to speak
quick kayak
Nothing, don't mind me.
strange wagon
@shell marsh what happened?
shell marsh
the latest update is what happened
queen mango
Was about to say that
shell marsh
due to have the pen works it tripps the bound saze to very poor like allways
quick kayak
They did improvements to the IK, does that mean it's all good now?
shell marsh
just wrong
strange wagon
oof.
shell marsh
Wheres thr offical pen from VRChat so they can still talk
something that does not trip the bound size
strange wagon
i can imagine what happens if they give everyone a pen
shell marsh
well make it blockable but dont tie too my performance
strange wagon
i'd say make it vr only but that'd be unfair to the nice desktop ppl
or yea blockable
true sky
i think there could be workaround for that π
wispy gulch
noice. linked accounts now.
strange wagon
probably quite low on their to do list sadly
wicked epoch
Good update vrc, the new IK improvements look much better
strange wagon
they looked good recently already to me
shell marsh
like its so common that it should be standard from VRChat so its not part of my avatar
strange wagon
being able to spawn a pen like your camera. would be cool
shell marsh
just make it a script like the avatar discriptor and do it at runtime
true sky
sorry to ping @placid umbra but i think they meant this outline bug https://imgur.com/a/DukHeox and has to do with the version of Flat Lit Toon vrchat is using vs. the editors version
its been present since 2017.4.15f1
strange wagon
ah yep this is it. you gotta put the outline to 0 in order to fix it. it's sort of active from the get go
despite it being turned off in the ui
strange wagon
really? it's gone if i put the outline to 0
vocal shard
stuck in a infinate loading
true sky
i dont know if it has to do with post proccessing
strange wagon
outline to 0 and the color to white i mean
light seal
Imagine actually closing VRChat
true sky
as of feedback not working, i guess so
light seal
Just wait till people realize all of there avatars are Very Poor now
true sky
this was open in the beta, but all we got is they arent going to change it https://vrchat.canny.io/open-beta/p/open-beta-798-feedback-show-active-out-of-total-on-performance-rank-system
light seal
for having any type of fancy animation
wispy gulch
found a bug in the new quest app
wintry oracle
are taking this pretty badly
strange wagon
gotta start optimizing now π
true sky
not updating 200+ models if it wasnt causing a problem before π
strange wagon
all of my avatars are well optimized π
wintry oracle
guess i gotta go through the five stages of grief real quick
true sky
medium is good enough since some use guns, spears, and other props
strange wagon
yea medium is my ego threshold
true sky
not enabled unless used by gesture toggle
wispy gulch
on the quest app, on the upgrade account pages , page 2: "VR users may want to remove their" - the message is clipped.
remove their what?
light seal
My Gmod Kleiner got memed because of a gesture I have that replaces my main body with a t-pose version lol
So it doubles my avatars over all stats
true sky
im not updating because some people tried bypassing the system using an animator to enable game objects and we have to suffer for it
strange wagon
mmmm just checked. my performance ratings didn't really change
wanton plover
is it me or the materials count in vrchat is bugged that makes my avatar become medium to very poor? before update i have 8 material used now i got like 26 material slots
strange wagon
6+ gives you medium i think
true sky
disabled objects are now counted
light seal
If you have any gestures where you have a dupe of your body those get counted so GG
strange wagon
just atlas in blender for less materials
that's why most of my avatars have 2 materials now. tops 3
wispy gulch
they published a chart with the limits and combos for a lot of things
wanton plover
actually no, my avatar doesnt have hidden objects tho
strange wagon
i only really have more than 1 if i want to make something glow
true sky
i only atlas parts like hats and guns since main base avatar has 2 materials and 2k polys
strange wagon
which are usually the eyes
wispy gulch
light seal
Imagine the performance gains if they ever move off of Photon...
true sky
avatar is pretty scuffed and like to keep the derpy look
strange wagon
i'm suprised you didn't get medium prior the update with 8 materials
close to 10 gives you medium by default
true sky
i kept around the good - medium area and under 10 materials active
highest i went was 8
strange wagon
i really recommend atlasing. it's really easy and cats does it for you π
- there is no reason to have multiple materials
light seal
It was already really easy to do without a plugin
true sky
probably the same reason i dont need several skinned meshes
strange wagon
it was already a plugin when i started making avatars
light seal
and cats atlasing tends to mess up your textures
true sky
^
strange wagon
sometimes ye
light seal
since it outputs them as Index color format
strange wagon
yea. but i don't bother with manual if it looks good auto
if you're already lazy with optimizing atleast auto atlas if doesn't fuck up your textures
light seal
Any tests I have done with it mess up the texture colors
stoic halo
petition to get rid of full body people blasting music through their mics while dancing in a mirror unsolicited
light seal
Because it outputs them as index color mode
strange wagon
it happens rarely to me
true sky
if i like the music, i usually dont care
round mortar
At least TubTub is still rated good
strange wagon
my recent main avatar is still rated "good" pog
median basalt
My avatar is "very poor" because it has 5001 tris in a mesh particle
true sky
this is what my bob ross avatar is now rated and was rated good before the changes. https://i.imgur.com/XdhQ6GJ.png
true sky
gestures is for painting and beating the devil out of the brush
its like i used all of them at once
strange wagon
disgustang
round mortar
All of mine are very poor from bound size and poly count
true sky
it was 20k by itself
true sky
and that is why we got punished for ^
strange wagon
guess animations fuck with the rating system
i have 0 animations on my avatar π
placid umbra
Bound size was adjusted to be much more forgiving, yes
round mortar
Just having animators decreases your rating
strange wagon
snailmarker doesn't destroy your rating anymore? @placid umbra
tacit plank
Glad to hear
strange wagon
i had someone say that snailmarker still rips your rating here
round mortar
Particles
strange wagon
couldn't find a tutorial on how to do that tbh
been looking for one though
i got used to not using it anymore ever since the bounds issue was there
i used to use it on every avatar before that though cause i don't talk much
placid umbra
After this update, bound size will bump your avatar down to medium at most
glad hazel
@plain turtle I meant by saying it, try to not worry and optimize the best you can.
true sky
i wonder if materials were the same as its bumped up a bit?
idk if its to compensate using gestures
strange wagon
just wondering. is anyone gonna disable very poor rated avatars or keep it as is?
round mortar
I've never used the safty settings
strange wagon
not even for visitors?
round mortar
Nope
strange wagon
wow
true sky
i use safety settings to disable shaders
strange wagon
you're one tenacious person.
round mortar
Visitors are the least of your worries
tacit plank
I have sounds off
true sky
other than that, nothing else
strange wagon
the most "noisy" ones i see are visitor and trusted
austere gulch
90% of the avatars in my avatar world don't load now thanks to the update... which is about... 200 or so avatars...
round mortar
It's really easy to tell if somone has something cancerous on an avatar so just hide them individually
round mortar
Don't really have to worry about it if you never go to a lag free box
true sky
i checked out community labs world and there is now a world called "a private world" π
strange wagon
was never really a fan of these weird shaders
round mortar
They're not as bad as full body glowing tattoos
strange wagon
same category π
harsh star
I don't see zeh update yet on my end, Oculus π₯π¦
strange wagon
even non glowing full body tattoos look awful to me
placid umbra
@harsh star Are you using Oculus on PC?
strange wagon
i know exactly what avatars you're talking about
harsh star
Yupp!
strange wagon
disabling shaders makes everyone look shit though
harsh star
2019.2.3p1:793 π₯ πΊ
strange wagon
like plastic
round mortar
Just use TubTub
harsh star
typing this in VR :p
strange wagon
never heard of tubtub
round mortar
I need to get around to adding more spaghettios to him
strange wagon
oh my god
harsh star
I now see zeh update @placid umbra π₯π
placid umbra
@harsh star Odd that it took so long, but good
crystal brook
Aev I posted a picture of the thumb issue in #user-support-old
harsh star
strange wagon
that made me hungry
round mortar
@lunar knoll reminds me that you still haven't seen my Mr Mime
But not in game
Just pay for nitro
strange wagon
they just disabled foreign emotes. which is triggering me.
create a problem > don't have a sollution
covert linden
It exists in random chat
strange wagon
only there?
@lunar knoll @round mortar i posted something nice in #general-media
round mortar
Ricardo
strange wagon
ayee
vast iris
is there some kind of new exploit going around? I have a VPN and am still getting booted out of VRChat (and having my twitch stream go down) the person claiming to do it says they got my IP from VRChat's voice chat?
queen mango
That I am not sure of. Have you updated your SDK to 2017.4.28f1?
primal oak
Even through VOIP your IP should be covered by your VPN
vast iris
i am running the latest version through steam... im not sure how the SDK would matter?
primal oak
It only matters for avatar/ world makers
vast iris
that's what i thought, even though its P2P voice chat it should be through the VPN... anyone know how they are kicking me off the net or what to do about it? Obviously i just pick a new vpn node and reconnect... but it's pretty horrible
I'm using expressvpn, that should be protecting me from DDOS. I don't really know what else it could be.
covert linden
If you use a vpn its not possible they do thatm restart your router and clear your cache
terse cedar
anyone having an issue where they can't seem to load in vrchat after logging in? in this new update?
vast iris
this is the first time something like this has happened. Normally the VPN protects against everything.
primal oak
NordVPN user here, occasionally getting disconnects too. Usually what happens is I'm in a public world, then I get suddenly disconnected and sent to my home world. Then mid load the game does an error sound, all black, then it sends me back to the public world.
covert linden
Try clearing cache. Could also be a ping issue
primal oak
Ping is usually around 180, but stable.
vast iris
it's not a ping issue, or a vrchat dropout.. because my stream also dies
primal oak
Strange.
brave salmon
so they still haven't tried fixing performance issues for PC users, main focus is on the quest
vast iris
yeah... it's happened many times tonight, and it doesn't knock out other PC's on my network connected to different nodes
terse cedar
already verified game cache and reinstalled the game, i have a lan cable going to my pc so i dont think thats and issue
vast iris
Also, i'm fairly sure it's happening from within VRChat, because staying out of public worlds fixes it
brave salmon
patiently waits for them to enable at the very least one more core
vast iris
last I looked, Unity didn't do multithreading... so, you're only going to get the one core.
terse cedar
This sucks, canβt play vrchat tonight cause of the update
desert stratus
apparently the game is well multi-threaded according to devs so idk whats up with that
the "well" part is up to debate as well apparently
delicate umbra
sucks to have a low core count cpu, I guess
primal oak
I don't think it is. A ton of workload is stressed onto one core.
desert stratus
oof
primal oak
Job System better distributes the workload across all cores and threads.
desert stratus
unity 2018 hype
primal oak
Hold your horses, dev team just said it's a very big change and needs lots of time.
Not hopeful they can do it in two months.
vast iris
maybe the no multithreading was a unity 4 thing... i don't remember
delicate umbra
They've been doing a pretty good job at delivering some pretty great quality of life updates in the timespans they've been doing them in
surreal ingot
can anyone help me import this
harsh cedar
so i have this issue still that when i join a friend it pops up an error and sends me to a reloading screen and trys to reload me into the same world i was trying to go to until vrchat gives up and sends me home and then i cant join anyone or i cant even open a new world
please at me or dm me for solution please
vocal shard
so anyone eles infinate loop
every world I join with people in sends me to a world with just me in or only a few people
itβs been like that all night
hmmm
odd
hey tupper that new sdk you just uploaded does that fix video player issues?
covert chasm
No, it is just the most up to date SDK
It fixes a small issue with incorrect Quest limit numbers
vocal shard
ok do you know whats wrong with video players atm or is this just a me thing?
covert chasm
You will have to clarify what you're experiencing
harsh cedar
tupper quick question idea on solutions on my end to fix the problem i am having
vocal shard
ill post some pics and show you in #world-development
uh
how do I fix this?
posted
what about the loading issue?
covert chasm
@vocal shard Not a clue. That image provides no context to what kind of video it is-- live stream or not, video format, region availability, etc
Your log would tell the most. I'd encourage you to contact support@vrchat.com with as much info as possible, and we might be able to track it down.
vocal shard
i posted the two link in worlds channel
of the video that works and that doesnt work
royal latch
@covert chasm quick question is vrchat going to support 120hz and 144hz on the index?
vocal shard
and no they are not live streams they are normal videos
wispy gulch
ah. relax. okay. 2-3 hours of freakout, and vrchat is back to normal for my gang of Quest people
slate verge
big oofs to quest users
wispy gulch
so, big thanks for the upgrade. merge worked. good days.
mighty cradle
what are the quest hardlimits?
mighty cradle
and is there no way to lift it by modding the client?
because that crap is ridiculous
covert chasm
Modification of the client is a violation of the Terms of Service of VRChat and may result in moderation action.
plucky nebula
Is there any chance that Final IK for avatars will be fixed with the networked IK in the future? Its still broken for me
wispy gulch
pretty much every single quest user is just going to set "poor and show avatar" and things go back to what they were until devs find the time or energy to fix stuff
does anyone have a) a hard number of number of Quests sold? and b) how many Quests on vrchat?
plucky nebula
I honestly just want the Final IK on avatars to be fixed for the new Networked IK system, alot of it is broken
Other than that the updates they be doin are good ππ»
uneven cave
Does anyone know where I can get a anime boy with a katana?
mighty cradle
oh, you can disable that crap on quests?
then it isn't much of a hard limit, is it?
@covert chasm I am well aware, but users are going to be pissed enough to do this in quite some volume. I also believe limiting polygons is absolutely not the way to go about things, and especially not a hard limit; due to a lot of technical reasons, you should not be blaming polygons for every issue.
This includes, but is not limited to, the Adreno drivers themselves being absolute arse to the point of literally breaking GLES version compliance.
Those same bugs have lingered for years.
wispy gulch
someone told me before imposed limits, they loaded a near full pc level avatar and it just worked. naturally the Quest was running full hot. not ideal, but not impossible
mighty cradle
If you at all can mess with Unity to figure out how it's working around those issues, do take note and test how well it performs with said buggy drivers versus with a workaround.
rigid crescent
"someone told me" with proof ye?
wispy gulch
"load this avatar"
mighty cradle
However, if anyone picks up a keyboard and neatenl Freedreno for Android, then that might be the Quest's literal saving grace to the point of being able to do PC avatars.
wispy gulch
77,000++ polys, 3 maqterials, many bones
placid umbra
Quest have been profiled in detail, the existing limits have been selected for good reasons
mighty cradle
Because so far, the potential performance benefits, even though it's still quite a bit behind, are massive just due to not having stipid bugs that tank FPS.
wispy gulch
mind you, 2-3 weeks ago, i didn't know a lot about vrchat, but i do know 3d
@placid umbra or have they?
mighty cradle
"selected for good reasons"
7.5k polys
pick one
adrenos have absolutely zero problpms pushing polygons
wispy gulch
"they are stealing your framerates"
desert stratus
to be fair, if you want to complain about tri limits, you should be taking it up with oculus and not the vrc dev team
mighty cradle
uhhh...
no?
i'm expecting vrc devs to know their target hardware at least enough to be able to tell that a 7.5k poly limit is silly
slate rock
are video players broken?
mighty cradle
hell, that chip, in android phones, plays games with many times that poly count just fine
hybrid apex
mi no entender inglish .... ;-;
mighty cradle
video players freeze me on proton so
glad hazel
:3 and people said 20k was bad ^.^
mighty cradle
kinda?
see
the quest has, with textures, absolutely no issues pushing 100k polys
wispy gulch
20k is bad for whom?
glad hazel
Well 20k used to be the PC limit
mighty cradle
it's when you get into fancier effects that you run into the driver bugs
wispy gulch
as i mentioned many times, i had an avatar i found (for quest) that had 77k polygons
mighty cradle
that then would make a quest sweat at 50k due to those driver issues alone
glad hazel
Were models for quest not blocked before if uploaded over 10k?
wispy gulch
worked nicely despite warnings
glad hazel
20k would be more than enough for quest o:
covert linden
No. The vrchat already performes way worse than it should on the quest
glad hazel
So.. just now every1s models are blocked? lmao! XD
mighty cradle
test it in as empty a room as you can, or factor its own poly count in, and again keep only textures and very basic lighting
wispy gulch
but every quest user is simply selecting "poor and show avatar"
glad hazel
Was there no limit warning in the SDK before?
covert linden
keep in mind on one avatar it doesnt seem like a lot, but it adds up. a room of 6 avatars is already 42k polys + the world
wispy gulch
in a week, just like since may 21st
glad hazel
or did someone mod the quest SDK?
mighty cradle
you had to mod the SDK to go above said poly counts
hybrid apex
...
glad hazel
well 10k is the max
covert linden
Quest cannot see them when theyre above, it ingame monitors them
glad hazel
not 7.5k
wispy gulch
1/4 of my already optimized, public, avatars, was boned by the update
and 100% of them are still available if my friends click "show avatar" on my profiel
covert linden
Android
60 FPS (required by Oculus)
50-100 draw calls per frame
50,000-100,000 triangles or vertices per frame
7.5k x 6 = 42 + the world, goes up very fast meaning its already almost too much.
wispy gulch
i'm pretty sure i still have a few 20-40k
covert linden
Most people I met dont get 60fps in quest but under
wispy gulch
the main issue is materials and bones. the stats thing even shows you the issues.
placid umbra
@covert linden Spot on
covert linden
Thank you!
wispy gulch
i get great framerates until there are PC people
indigo fern
pc players smh my head
wispy gulch
mind: i currently don't have any PC based headsets, so i'm only quest right now, but having done this for 20+ years, i do know the differences
placid umbra
You're saying the PC placeholder avatars are hurting perf for you?
indigo fern
o7
placid umbra
"i get great framerates until there are PC people"
covert linden
Polys are still an issue.
Polys are an issue, oculus has its limits. We cannot break Oculus's limits more than we have if most people dont even get 60fps
indigo fern
^
wispy gulch
@placid umbra: complicted answer follows
placid umbra
Curious what you mean by that then
wispy gulch
if i cannot see that native pc user, they are a "robot"
indigo fern
its the players that cause all the lag, if it wasnt for the players there would be none
wispy gulch
if i CAN see them, they are pushing levels of polys and such, that the Quest has a hard time keeping up with
the Quest could potentially use those avatars, but it's on an extreme edge case
covert linden
If all quest users have 10k polys, and the limit for quest is 100,000, simple math will show you, 10k x 8 = 80k, MEANING that the world would need to only have 20k, and even still that is pushing it, you want to be on the lower side not pushing it.
Im not sure the world poly avg sadly
wispy gulch
simple artifical lmits
placid umbra
Ok, so you're saying the Quest versions of avatars that PC users are uploading aren't optimized enough to be getting good perf?
indigo fern
not to mention some cross compatible worlds have higher player counts
covert linden
I dont know why people hope for the limits to raise when I havent seen anyone hit 60fps regularily atm
wispy gulch
one way to frame it: if a cross platform world has ONLY quest users, things are good, but if a pc user joins, it goes ... pear shaped sometimes
covert linden
But you cant see pc avatars on the quest.
placid umbra
So now that the Quest won't load avatars that are bad for perf, it seems to make sense that it should improve?
wispy gulch
Nako has a lot of people trying out his experiments. it takes a lot of people and highly involved avatars to blow things up.
placid umbra
Ferret is saying that some PC users are uploading Quest versions to remove the placeholder, but that the replacements are badly performing
wispy gulch
mmm, 1/4 of my currently stored avatars are Red!
true timber
im now getting crippling 10fps when trying to use vrchat in desktop mode ever since this latest update. I was on desktop earlier today and was absolutely fine. anyone else experiencing similar?
wispy gulch
i can still use them, and people can still see them. they are all public (not custom)
covert linden
Kizzy restart your system
true timber
I did
wispy gulch
so, not being new to VR per se, but new to vrChat specifcally, i'm trying to learn the limits of the system. i do appreciate that there are ideals and such.
i also have full upload capability now, so i need to know more to not waste my time developing
early day, learning curves, growing pains. i can accept that. i just need docs.
covert linden
You have all the docs you need to make them
placid umbra
For a long time, a lot of people have been taking high poly/material/mesh avatars made for MMD (which isn't meant for realtime use) and decimating/optimizing them to get them into VRChat. The thing is, trying to reduce those models even further to get them into good specs for Quest is very difficult. Usually not very realistic without retopology, which is not a simple thing to learn and do well.
wispy gulch
sure
placid umbra
On the other hand, models that are made for realtime use or mobile applications can be optimized and look great. Obvious issue being, modeling stuff from scratch takes a lot of work.
wispy gulch
right
lone scroll
lmao another example of some uneducated person trying to complain about a very good change
https://old.reddit.com/r/VRchat/comments/c2aam9/discussion_thanks_devs_to_fuck_all_of_us/
meanwhile their avatar looks like something i would block in a second, 600 material slots, 600!!!
desert stratus
there will always be "some uneducated person," so i sleep
placid umbra
1226 material slots geeeeeeez
desert stratus
6...00? shudder
wispy gulch
Kinami! hey, i'm glad to report good stats on your avatars π
placid umbra
With that many materials I hope the avatar is a fully playable RPG
lone scroll
imagine having the audacity to complain when your avatar are this garbage, hur dur my animations
true timber
I mean isn't that exactly what the dude is complaining about? That the avatar performance stats are now ridiculous looking and not representative of what the avatar is actually usually displaying?
misty turret
How does one get rid of material slots if in blender the materials have been reduced to 4 I am a bit confused about these invisible slots.
true timber
I don't really think it's some far fetched thing to complain about given there's already a canny post with 200+ votes asking for it to be changed
wispy gulch
i'm used to much lower fidelity in my VR over the years with molecular modeling systems. so even though say RiftS is about HD, the Quest is much richer in resolution, but not power, so people who aren't technical don't get it when they are shunned.
lone scroll
i see the problem in the thread
placid umbra
I'm not discounting the message behind the post, but the avatar specs shown in the screenshots are extremely, unimaginably higher than they should ever need to be.
lone scroll
material slot works different now? even if its the same material & texture 10 times, it counts as 10 times
which is kinda stupid, when things like instancing
ripe gull
Wait... I scrolled up and saw something about an avatar with 600 material slots...
Seriously? That's a thing?
lone scroll
placid umbra
1200+ actually
ripe gull
lol what the hell
lone scroll
1226 material slots, complaining about the new safety system
this is your average person that complains
tribal oxide
Dizzy noizes
misty turret
Hmm again based on blender it saying 4 materials and when importing to unity it shows four materials whybis it counting 10?
ripe gull
Lol good thing mine only has like 6 or 7.
Sadly though it's got like 50k polys.
Still runs well though on low end pcs.
lone scroll
you can easily decimate mesh parts without loosing any detail
supple sedge
Keep getting vrchat not responding... sigh
wispy gulch
so. imagine you're only a quest user. you jus got a forced update. you enter worlds with your friends, and 1/4 to 3/4 of public avatars are now "Perf"
lone scroll
but 50k is fine anyway
wispy gulch
i had any number of 50-77k poly avatars (not very attractive mind you, but good as reference) working fine on the quest
now, being forced to 5k?
agile needle
What was the rationale for changing Unique Materials to Material Slots? It's not even mentioned in the release notes
wispy gulch
wow
ripe gull
Would rather have lower.
Says that my avatar performance is "low", even though it obviously isn't if my shit pc can handle seeing it in the mirror with 60 other people.
covert linden
if you have an issue with not being able to see 50k poly models complain to Oculus not vrchat.
rigid crescent
what fps do you get in the mirror π€
misty turret
@agile needle what I been asking and why it counts materials that don't show up in blender. But getting no answer.
ripe gull
Roughly the same as anywhere else - 50-60 frames
rigid crescent
I want my emote in here so bad ;-; im used to typing it out instead of the normal thinking one lol
i can use it in random at least tho
with 60 people π€ that's somewhat hard to believe
lone scroll
Im very happy about the new performance rank changes, and 95% of the people that complain, are like the guy on reddit, 500 meshes, 1600 materials etc etc.
Ignore people like them because they HAVE to be trolls
ripe gull
hyperbole
rigid crescent
oh ok
well its been said plenty but one avatar is rarely the issue, it's all the avatars in a room combined
ripe gull
The only thing that seems to harm my pc are shaders and poorly optimized worlds.
mighty cradle
true timber
yes, ignore the 200+ people complaining about the changes on the canny
just a bunch of trolls
lone scroll
if people like that complain https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/468851317683650583/590700193461305385/unknown.png
mighty cradle
tldr; since then, there has been one fix, one maybe yes, tons of other maybes
lone scroll
how do you want me to take anyone seriously anymore
wispy gulch
for the ignorant (me) define canny please?
rigid crescent
if you have lots of people who complain then your group is automatically right
true timber
the canny is basically the site where you go to report bugs/request features/etc.
lone scroll
yeah, the loudest people are always the biggest idiots
wispy gulch
mmmm
mighty cradle
some of those are supported by the silicon, just not the drivers
wispy gulch
i've been a software dev for 40+ years π
i really get unhappy users
can't be helped
mighty cradle
how was Unix?
wispy gulch
and i'm new to vrChat speciically, and gearing up to dev here... so i hope i induldge and forgive as i learn ...
unix is still great thanx
these days you'd call is "apple" π
ancient kindle
ew dont bring up that forbidden fruit
mighty cradle
that's not really close to the tree though
wispy gulch
well, i'm sorry not sorry
mighty cradle
OS X is quite a few steps away from just regular Unix
wispy gulch
but JS / node / react is where the money is
mighty cradle
no SysV anymore
wispy gulch
Mach
wispy gulch
"close enough to make kissing cousins make bebes"
ancient kindle
python, golang
mighty cradle
π
wispy gulch
whoa, are you my cousin? π
mighty cradle
ever touched BSD?
wispy gulch
"everything"
mighty cradle
nah, just a nerd
who happens to find it disappointing a crappy ass copycat is now the king of the market
ancient kindle
ex dev for dropbox
mighty cradle
fucking msdos
wispy gulch
core memory, quantum, every os known to humans and lizard people, and then some
ancient kindle
now i just do cat things like take hr naps, every other hr
mighty cradle
pfft
ancient kindle
mess with this game
mighty cradle
do you climb to the highest floor first?
ancient kindle
unmaliciously
mighty cradle
also, for 1226 materials, i expect a full fucking install of ubuntu with way too many teletypes to find uses for and an X server on each one
lone scroll
but muh animations
mighty cradle
fuck the anims
desert stratus
i shouldnt've commented on that post tbh
mighty cradle
for that amount of crap, give me GCC and LLVM
desert stratus
more and more realizing that its 100% obvious bait
lone scroll
what makes you think its bait
mighty cradle
i'm here to extend the joke shush
lone scroll
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/468851317683650583/590700193461305385/unknown.png the 1200 materials? the 500 meshes?
desert stratus
mhm. well, its more like i want to believe that it's bait so the sheer horror of its reality doesnt get to my head
lone scroll
its HiS AnImAtIoNs DuDe
let the morons complain, by default nothing is hidden for desktop players anyway, if someone decides to filter out very poor its their good right to do so
desert stratus
imagine single-handedly beating out oculus's recommendations for draw-calls per-scene, even if they're locked behind animations
lone scroll
and then telling the devs the fucked everyone π this guy is a gem
desert stratus
a gem? my boi's a fucking ring pop
mighty cradle
skinned meshes: 36
lone scroll
but man, i really wanted to see his animations :/
mighty cradle
my old mesa driver would be sweating its balls into orbit
lone scroll
loud annoying music, flashy effects, cant wait !
mighty cradle
bug made it unable to render anything above the first skinned mesh
ie the "body" mesh
desert stratus
lets be real, prob exactly what youd expect. his normal avatar is prob just already triple-digit in draw-calls
mighty cradle
also
wispy gulch
bowing out for now, hope to catch up soon
lone scroll
and then people talk shit about the devs when they have to deal with this kind of person
mighty cradle
i have some conspiracy level crap for you
that complaint was fielded by a vrc dev posing as a moron
desert stratus
ooo! love conspiracy's, dish it out to me
lone scroll
same, gotta leave for work, thanks for the laughs guys, muh animations
desert stratus
interesting theory π π€ π
lone scroll
i wish the devs would publicy shame them but thats not civilized anymore
mighty cradle
this is how they do it
lone scroll
I want vrchat to add autoban for people with over 5k collision checks and 500 material slots π
100 meshes and youre banned
How to solve vrchats performance problems over night /s
lone scroll
im available for hire yes
mighty cradle
i'm curious
lone scroll
im kinami
mighty cradle
@placid umbra is there anything new, feature wise, that the engine update brings? anything under the hood that changes in any fashion?
lone scroll
i doubt , its an lts update
99% bugfixes and security fixes, thats what LTS was made for, no new features or changes
just wait for 2018 LTS, that will be nice
mighty cradle
i'd still be interested
placid umbra
Right, LTS updates are all bug fixes
true timber
I heard from someone that putting chairs on avatars is apparently broken in the latest SDK?
placid umbra
In the case of the mic switcher, a bug fix let us add it back
true timber
they say that when they put a chair on an avatar now and go to upload the publish button is greyed out
rigid crescent
did they put the chair on correctly?
true timber
I assume so since they say it works fine with an older SDK version
I don't have the latest SDK so cant go check myself
mighty cradle
vocal shard
good news; they did it; we can now block avatars based off their performance π
Those Anime Avatars are hard to look at y'know.
desert stratus
cant wait to go into the box without dying
stoic halo
quest users can still see over 10k polys still apparently, my quest buddy can still see my quest model over 10k
desert stratus
time to GAME
vocal shard
Now I don't have to look at Anime-MMD Character avatars anymroe
So I will block the low performance ones and.. keep the purple ones
desert stratus
youll still be looking at my avatar tho
vocal shard
and if they purple and low performance they hidden too
desert stratus
wanna know why? cuz im bright and green uwu
frosty veldt
I thought purple and low performance went hand in hand
desert stratus
55k tris and like 16 dyn bones are the worst things about my avatar
everything else is excellent
vocal shard
I just dont like looking at them
desert stratus
understandable
vocal shard
not racist or anything;
There's this game called "Bloodstained Ritual of the Night" the 3D girl is hot. I want her 3D avatar
I want to turn her into a Kermit.
So one bad issue with this Performance Update
If you have effects on any of your Avatars; they will have Low Performance issues (If they spawn items and objects)
So it is able to detect inactive Models on your Avatar. Does this mean that we have to turn off Mesh Renderers now?
So this is the logic ... If EVERYONE has special animation does thatmean every Avatar with Gestures/Animations/Effects are considered Very Poor Performance?
Since my computer can handle Very Poor Performance issues even crashers.. I guess I won't limit them
How do you disable the "Very Poor" preference
desert stratus
imo if i do make some big ass anim avatars im just treating them as more of a thing i just show off to friends then something i just carry around in worlds since most of my anims are simple party tricks, like guns that shoot hearts
and the blocking for PC users is not enabled by default
you have to manually set it to block the rank u want
lone scroll
Exactly
Noone wants to see your shitty annoying animations in public
So many people butthurt this is amazing
vocal shard
Seems too complicated; it means every Optimized Avatar is technically not Optimized.
lone scroll
So much missinformation going around, why is the playbase so toxic
vocal shard
For example; if your avatar had 100 weapons and a bunch of outfits and you make them as Templates and you upload
Each one has different functions, etc, etc; how you make it not have these issues
true timber
I think people are just upset because their overall avatar rank is lowered because of special overrides that are usually not even activated 99% of the time so they feel it's not fair to judge the entire avatar by that
vocal shard
What do you mean, I am still Trusted.
lone scroll
If that is required to have auto block very poor avatars (not even by default) im fine with it
vocal shard
So.. I am forced to stay as a Kermit? Or my Non-Animated Knuckles?
vocal shard
All my Kermits are Optimized so I am ssafe
lone scroll
People are just beeing butthurt over their loss of 600 meshes
My avatars are pretty good and have alot of cool things, worst it gets is medium. Alot of dyanmic bone useage too
Just stop beeing trash and take 5m to optimize things instead of complaining without reason
vocal shard
They nerfed Material slots too
So that is something I will need to look into (Just too lazy to fuse the materials)
regal dune
Has anyone had a unity license expired error problem where you using the free version of unity?
vocal shard
I am going to assume nobody will have their Performance Rank set to Good as the minimum
lone scroll
Correct, maybe some potato pc but ye
vocal shard
People will most likely have it at Poor+
lone scroll
Ill set it to poor, because i dont care about very poor avatars
desert stratus
im personally drawing the line at poor
lone scroll
Or their creators
desert stratus
since most of the time ill be in public worlds, medium avatars tend to ensure that i can sit in worlds with at least 20 people before they go down the shitter
vocal shard
So they nerfed Material Meshes based off what I am seeing;
vocal shard
I need to find the new "Good" number for Materials now
7 seems to be the magic number
9 is the new Medium Number
vocal shard
It's a good thing I made 100 Knuckles that are Optimized from Good to Excellent
lone scroll
Ye
vocal shard
The Older Knuckle Builds that don't have clothes wouldn't be seen if someone set their performance to minium of good
Knuckle Builds* that do
Time to be a Kermit
This new update means -- I won't be using Old Avatars I used and will be making new Kermits that follow the new Optimization Guidelines
lone scroll
Bro
Its really, REALLY not hard to not be very poor
At worst it takes like 2minutes
To go to poor/medium
vocal shard
Also my shaders are off
Using Silent Shaders but they not working anymores ;c
Gonna replace with Cubed-Shaders since they work on VRChat;
nvm.. I forgot to put outline
rigid crescent
I mean if people really care they can just make a "hangout" version of the avatar. Hit duplicate. remove the extra shit. done
wanna show off? swap to show off avatar. wanna hang out? swap to hangout
lone scroll
i still cant get over the fact that people like this https://old.reddit.com/r/VRchat/comments/c2aam9/discussion_thanks_devs_to_fuck_all_of_us/ complain about the most reasonable and sense full change
it makes 100% sense to count disabled gameobject, because you can just enable them, the old system would just allow you to have a 1 million polygon mesh with 9999 materials on your avatar, disabled, but you could just have a gesture to animate it.
Jesus christ, how moronic can someone be
ruby needle
People will always find excuses for their lazyness and other people to blame for it
lone scroll
But it makes me sad because of the hate towards the devs, they dont deserve that, just because some people are stupid
ruby needle
Many just work with the visual in mind. The quickest and easiest way to get visual result x
lone scroll
it really baffles me how they could think its a bad idea to count disabled gameobjects
hot prairie
Mic_Sounders the Famous V-TuberToday at 10:40 PM I mean if people really care they can just make a "hangout" version of the avatar. Hit duplicate. remove the extra shit. done wanna show off? swap to show off avatar. wanna hang out? swap to hangout
this
why are people upset when it can be as convenient as that?
lone scroll
bro that would require them to be reasonable
but his animations dude, his 600 materials man, duhhh
hE nEeDs ThEm
pastel galleon
people have been suggesting a dynamic system to count things like material slots even in the canny, and were totally ignored by the devs
vocal shard
and calling people normies when it is other way around π
agile needle
Yeah let's just manage 4 unity projects per avatar to cover all use cases on all platforms...or not.
lone scroll
noone is forcing you to be a try hard
man this morning has been alot of fun, cant wait for the next reddit post of someone complaining about a very positive feature
vocal shard
I make tutorial video on Optimization Avatar for VRChat adding this new rule xD and I'll be like "Don't feel like a downer" in the tutorial video so I will need to suggest minimal gesture effects in my next video if you want to have them public -- Making Excellent Performance with Minor Gesture Effects
It just means more work and dedications with making every model 1 texture
IIf not excellent; at least good
ruby needle
Medium is what everyone should be able to archive when they really want to
vocal shard
My video will just explain how to manually fuse all your textures as one image and how to fix the uvs on all objects that's about it
which takes 30mins-1 hour
pastel galleon
Some ppl don't care about optimizations anyway unfortunately
vocal shard
It will make an excellent avatar; but when it comes to extra objects; I will need to figure the "Good" limit
I also need to know the Excellent limit
lone scroll
"Some people"? you mean the people who complain about the new perf rating system the loudest?
dont call them people
wicked hedge
Wow calm down with not call them people.
vocal shard
So my tutorial will add how to make Spectral Textures, Bump Maps, and Shadow Mask Textures too
That way it resolves the "If you have Normals and Spectrals" issue
and you are fusing everything; pretty much; you have to fuse everything then make the Bumps/Normals/Spectrals/etc
pastel galleon
No they have never cared even when the ranking was introduced, it's not gonna change now
vocal shard
Benefit of making 1 Material Texture = You can be Excellent until you max at 4.
leaden basalt
Hate to interject, but does anybody know where to find a good T.O.M. 3 or 3.5 avatar?
pastel galleon
And the new system is good, but it's also a pain to reupload every model with unchecked objects now
vocal shard
Difference between Skinned Meshes and normal Meshes = Normal Meshes do not have a limit like Skinned Meshes do ._.
pastel galleon
And I would usually hide avatars with a lot of materials and other stuff cause they were unoptimized
Now I can't even trust the system to know if those are actually being used or not, people are rightfully complaining about this cause it was implemented ignoring all the feedback trying to make it better
agile needle
At this point I'd settle for a checkbox to locally exclude disabled objects from performance ranking calculations until they get some of the other changes they had planned implemented
vocal shard
They should at least Paraphrase the disabled objects
Parapthsysis* can't spell that word
pastel galleon
I would like to know if a toggle would actually be possible
vocal shard
I believe Tupper said he doesn't think it can work with a toggle.
pastel galleon
I think it's not possible cause you would have to send 2 types of data and it would kill low end connections
rain isle
are there any downsides to having avatars uploaded with previous version
vocal shard
Depends how old of version you mean
pastel galleon
Shouldn't be a problem if the avatars are already uploaded
vocal shard
Not really. It's recommended to update your unity to fix some security exploits with unity itself, but the avatars should work normally without issue
heavy ledge
My vrchat keeps crashing on me and idk what's causing it.
rain isle
Alllright, thank you
vocal shard
hi
Hi
Everytime I finish a Project; VRChat always updates the Unity Version on me.
hm yeah idk the firs thing about creating an avatar
Last time it was Runescape.. then it was Knuckles.. now it's Kermits
cool stuff tho
We're on Kermits then I do a Side-Project called "ShrekFest 2019"
Such Is the way. Life light your path.
So I can inform the creator of ShrekFest 2019 to have people at Shrekfest go on VRChat
SO I need to make Shreks related to Nintendo only, Marvel, DC, and Jojo ones that way it's related to people who go to Shrek Fest or something
warm blade
yo
before my avatars hair moved
i haven't played the game in like 3 months
and now it doesn't move at all
vocal shard
Disable the dynamic bone limiter in the safety/performance settings
hmm i wonder if that's why my cape doesn't move at all
By default it disables dynamic bones on an avatar if it's over a certain amount
Possibly
i have no clue honestly haha i just play the game to have fun
storm stag
And there goes my Stats.
queen mango
Your avatar stats?
candid acorn
making a toggle between networked and cpu should be theoretically possible if it was a "you have to close the game to change the setting" type of toggle. a sort of setting file change like the particle limiter was.
so you have either one or the other and cannot change them on the fly
pastel galleon
we haven't received any feedback yet on the canny post π€·
vocal shard
Are we forced to use the new unity?
ruby needle
@candid acorn it would require to transmit both datasets then tho
Cus one has to permanently transmit both as the others has to have either available
candid acorn
would it though? seems like you could make it so that its using one system or the other. You calculate everyone elses ik the way it used to, and then simply transmit your ik to everyone else who is using networked. might still be imperfect, but would certainly reduce the strain on people with poor internet.
I dont pretend to know a whole lot about networking, but I cant seriously believe there's nothing to be done in regards to some kind of compromise that people can choose
ruby needle
Yes it would because if a client can choose which to use it needs to have access to the information of either system
One is transmitting the IK points vs the other transmitting the allready calculated muscle values
So one can't work with the values of the other
Which means every player would always have to provide both information sets at any time
umbral reef
And if i recall right someone said they dont even use the extact same information so reusing it wont even help
hot jungle
Xiexe's Unity shader broke with the latest patch and now I have to update all of my avatars because they all use it 
patent nest
why does vrchat push me into one world and then into another without an end?
ruby needle
@hot jungle unfortunate side effect of a bug that has been worked around but is now fixed.
hot jungle
Yo it doesn't even matter now though, the new version of the shader makes all my avatars look way cooler by complete coincidence!
I guess it just had something to do with the changes to shadows that also went with the fix to this version of Unity, but they look better than ever now!
storm stag
No point in Atlasing models anymore.
lone scroll
just dont
slender sequoia
Search Boi, cat, or animal when searching worlds.
vocal shard
Eww furries
Is the Alienware Aurora capable of running VRChat, or should I revert to my everyday use PC?
umbral reef
@storm stag there is tho
Even more then before
lost grove
@vocal shard yes it can
vocal shard
Alright, thank you for letting me know.
lost grove
ok
storm stag
Well my Quest ready avatars, yes.
alpine crater
There's always points in atlasing avatars
for the sake of people with lower end PCs or more demanding VR headsets, it gives them a much better performance
Fewer materials = fewer draw calls = better performance
obsidian pagoda
yeah hi why the fuck you stupid devs decide to put a (Recommended 0) on fucking dynamic bones?
if i wanted it to be for quest i'd be publishing it in Build for Android mode wouldn't i?
smfh
flint narwhal
I was looking for many worlds, but the only thing I found is a sergal
But i need a wolf
umbral reef
@obsidian pagoda Because dbones are laggy?
And having none means its leaps better then those that have it- Also the quest numbers aint the same as the pc recommended numbers
You can legit have 16 transforms and still be in the good range π€·
obsidian pagoda
you do realise there's a setting for people to change this in game right?
umbral reef
And are other people forced to get lagg from avatars then because you want to show off your fluid hair?
obsidian pagoda
then change the limit?
umbral reef
The dbone limit is turned on by default but not set to 0 unlike what your claiming
obsidian pagoda
i'm not claiming that
umbral reef
yeah hi why the fuck you stupid devs decide to put a (Recommended 0) on fucking dynamic bones?
obsidian pagoda
yeah that's in unity
umbral reef
And my comment about how 0 means optimized while having 16 transforms still throws you into the good was about that thne
It still means your not able to get blocked by performance and by the default dbone limiter
vocal shard
#Oclac4Mod
obsidian pagoda
yeah but you still aren't arguing my point you guys, you're just saying "don't use dynamic bones even though people can toggle them" and i initially said nothing about using a horrendous amount anyway
lone scroll
why is every second person here seemingly an expert in performance profiling and knows everything better then the devs who did it?
Man you all should make your own game, you seem so knowledgeable !
umbral reef
No im saying use them in high moderation
16 transforms aint easy to get, wont deny that, but we are talking about public worlds here.
Most people from my own experience throw off all limits in privateworlds anyway
lone scroll
wasnt ment for you π but yeah
only complain i have is that you have to have 0 db colliders to even be in good
odd lava
You should not use these at all
lone scroll
but i want to
odd lava
You can but it will be more likely your avatar will be blocked
lone scroll
i have 6 colliders
pls dont block me okay
0 excellent , 0 good, 4 medium, 32 poor is bad
0 excellent, 8 good, 16 medium , 32 poor is more linear (and i would finally be in good π)
umbral reef
Colliders shoddy said double the performance of the transforms
So 16 transforms with 1 collider is ~32 transforms
lone scroll
damn yeah people use them like idiots
umbral reef
Its less extreme as i just said but its a easy way to explain it
lone scroll
i have 1 bone 1 cat ear, one collider on it
two ears, two hands, equals 4 collision check counts already :/
umbral reef
Idc about optimazation when in private or with just friends
Public has another set of rules-
lone scroll
same, i also never noticed a fps increase with db limiter enabled i dont know why
20 fps in public pug with db limiter, 20 fps without it
umbral reef
Its hard to pin point performance mainly as its an game of slowly adding things untill its too much
5 (normal) materials aint bad
50 in total for a room also aint that bad
80 can cause a few frame drops
Gl finding that step between 50-80 for everything π€·
alpine crater
Plus the great pug isn't a very optimised map to begin with
umbral reef
It is- To an limit
not the best thing in the world but atleast does not make fake claims like the box did
alpine crater
Personally I think people would make their avatars work with default VRChat settings to begin with, rather than the million of everything anime style ones about
when my index arrives I'm going to put the performance filter at medium and see everything anime disappear
umbral reef
People are lazy basters so they wont care π€·
And now that the performance limiter does check performance a bit more people are unhappy they get listed as poor
alpine crater
Does the new limiter also block poly crashers as a side effect?
Or is that still a result of users going around with modded SDKs
umbral reef
for poly crashers just use the particle limiter
It blocks an insanely stupid useage of them (aka only whne crashing) and it blocks a collider with particle if i recall right what means crash guns fail and only full room crashes could work (but dont because of the other limits)
alpine crater
Thank god for that
umbral reef
Im wheezing big time thanks to this post https://www.reddit.com/r/VRchat/comments/c2aam9/discussion_thanks_devs_to_fuck_all_of_us/
Look at them stats π
I legit cant even think of how one can reach that 'just because disabled materails get counted'
Does the dude have an animation where he throws up a material showcase show and shows off what all materials in the game could do π ?
If so id understand it
subtle prawn
Simply main an optimized avatar then have a separate avatar with the junk on it to show off to friends and people that want to see. The avatar already has all the junk hidden so no need to wear it at all times
ornate finch
more is clearly always better and more creative /s
elder prism
well from what i seen so far in vrchat, these updates will most likely kill most of the population i think
subtle prawn
I don't think vrchat has a strong enough competitor to be deeply affected
umbral reef
Ow yea just like the past 12 updates
polar jasper
No one talks about the size these avatars take up in memory Β―_(γ)_/Β―
umbral reef
@polar jasper because most people dont even realize that a shader isnt the same weight as other shaders in performance
Whats fairly basic stuff imo if you get into optimizing
And im talking about people who sell avatars...
brisk umbra
I am not bothered by the update abit
elder prism
in my opinion, vrchat was more of a place for artists and creators to get together showcase their stuff, and of coarse chat, but it seems like the direction vrchat is heading is more of just a vr chat room instead
polar jasper
Oh yeah of course.
umbral reef
Is it? We always had problems with performance, extremely bad exploits and ect
subtle prawn
It may have started that way but people have abused that same part
umbral reef
Tey get fixed but performance was still bad, so they are fixing that slowly
ornate finch
like yeah this update is going to be detrimental to the population for sure but same thing with the network ik implementation
atleast until changes are to be made to improve em**
polar jasper
Iβd rather have one good optimized avatar and then have all the fun ones on the side
umbral reef
The IK will have a leaps more impact then this lmao
pseudo bobcat
not everyone is going to use the very poor blocker, i wouldn't be surprised if most animes left it off
umbral reef
Its notlike people with poor rating will care about rating now as its aint on by default anyway
ornate finch
but damage has been done to mentality of the majority of the userbase so π€·
pseudo bobcat
the mirror animes will likely keep the blocker off so they can see eachother in the mirrors
elder prism
animes are the games biggest population
umbral reef
Well the fake news people constantly spread, the discord/community owners promoting false idea's, fake news and lies has done more harm towards that rappy.
pseudo bobcat
very poor blockers will be in the minority but yall making it seem like the end of vrchat
ornate finch
yeah alot of people blow shit out of proportion out of ignorance
umbral reef
Some limits are not fun, plenty of my avatars are worthless and cant be used properly anymore
But that does not push people away, just gets them grumpy as shit
subtle prawn
Since the ranking is technically off by default , those that do change it didn't t want to see yiur avatar anyway
umbral reef
Saying you can get hacked, locations leaked, pc's blown up (all bullshit) does push peopleto not play
pseudo bobcat
i am blocking very poors because i'd rather have more than 20fps ingame
ornate finch
rofl
subtle prawn
And good for you to being able to choose what you want best for yourself :)
polar jasper
Lol
elder prism
i dont bother blocking, i know vr is demanding so i just made a good pc
ornate finch
there's no shame in blocking unoptimized avatars
subtle prawn
It's the same argument when ranking first showed up
elder prism
the only stuff i block is when people do that stupid screen shader stuff and obnoxious loud music
pseudo bobcat
i don't even allow trusted users to have anything but avatar+voice
umbral reef
Simply said
Why is everyone forced to see your special avatar?
Im against the rank blocking, there is no basis for that imo.
But with performance? Something that has a real impact on computers. Why are we forced to look at people who do not care about others in public worlds?
pseudo bobcat
i only have friends set to everything enabled
ornate finch
annoying shaders and music is one thing but personally i don't enjoy playing vr at 30 fps
subtle prawn
The ranking is of good use for me, I block sounds and animation
polar jasper
The reason hidden stuff is counted is because people circumvented the system by having things disabled then enabling it a few frames later when the avatar loaded.
It needs improvement for sure. But the best solution is to provide valid feedback on why and not be a rage post.
subtle prawn
That's set to everyone
elder prism
i like the ranking system too
umbral reef
Ranking is usefull for new users, users and trusted users. Past that its legit just a ranking instead of trust system
Same that the colors on the name plates dont add anything beside an easy way to judge people
pseudo bobcat
https://i.imgur.com/HVGzOaC.png this is how a world looked with very poors blocked, all the mirror animes disappeared except for two who had their animes optimized
elder prism
i never block anything on a new user, no need, they can't upload anything anyways
subtle prawn
I have restricted in friends too since some can still be obnoxious
lone scroll
if they dont fix networked ik within the next 1-2 months, im 100% quitting, the only reason im even playing this game (dancing with friends) and they fucked it, and all the other issues resulting in that too..
elder prism
so what doesnt work on ik now?
umbral reef
Got some bad news then- As unless your network is great it id be hard to get it close to the original performance from how i understand it
First all info of the ik got send to users. Made it heavy as everything got calculated for everyone.
Now you calculate your own and send that over the internet to people who just have to 'render' it
polar jasper
Making a prediction system for that is very difficult too
elder prism
but what is it affecting? people objects in their hands and particles etc?
subtle prawn
Body movements
ornate finch
bones
umbral reef
https://streamable.com/0a665 This can happen
elder prism
so not only people's custom ik jobs, but even vrchat ik is messed up?
polar jasper
But does it happen after the new update Oclac?
umbral reef
But tl;dr
Slower tracking rate what makes painting fail, you cant draw without making big gaps most of the time.
The IK freaks out in any non normal format (headset upside down for example)
Still a delay in the IK vs the voice what can cause some funny situations
umbral reef
And most it still happens just less bad then before, but its not gone.
Packet drops also kill the tracking hard, but this also applies to the previous IK so.
elder prism
i dont know why they have such a hard time with IK, i have IK networked in my mmo and it works just fine
lone scroll
the only possible fix would be to bring back local ik, but that would require devs to admit their mistake, which they never have nor ever will
@elder prism because they have no idea what they are doing, simple as that
polar jasper
Is it fully body IK too?
elder prism
but i mean it's not hard
lone scroll
it really isnt
elder prism
its not like they even have 30+ players to deal with
lone scroll
also they update it like 2-4 times per second? thats so low lmao
umbral reef
@elder prism Is it live calculated IK though?
And what networking do you guys use?
Fairly sure they now update 16/s but do not quote me at all on this.
elder prism
yes live, and using mirror and telepathy
umbral reef
@elder prism I meant in your mmo right?
umbral reef
Owkay then its good
lone scroll
just talking to them on discord is fun, they are great people
polar jasper
Tupper =/= Dev
umbral reef
@lone scroll They undid the first attempt at IK tracking because it gutted there servers
lone scroll
noone mentioned tupper, but thanks for your input
umbral reef
Also big odds they cant undo it now because of some changes and quest
lone scroll
yeah i know, they should just not use networked ik for pc and thats it
polar jasper
They have to though if you are to be in the same room as Quest
polar jasper
If you are in the same room as a Quest user you need to do networked IK
umbral reef
Using both systems is a coding, debugging and development nightmare
Getting the system to work nice (the ik one) should be almost as hard then getting the worse of both
But i gotta drive so π
lone scroll
people talk about it like its some million line system implement in the glorious spaghetti code of vrc
has anyone of you ever touched a bigger project? a well organized one? its really not that hard for a professional dev
im not saying i could do it, probably not, but thats why they hire devs
elder prism
yup i make my own multiplayer games with unity
unity is a nice engine, it's really easy to understand and expand on
umbral reef
Think of it like having to build a submarine that can also fly
It can be done but uuu... It's balls hard to do
lone scroll
its really not
umbral reef
With how the old ik worked compared to now?
lone scroll
if two idiots here could implement good working full body ik in an vr mmo, a dev team of professionals should be able to, no?
the old ik was superior and only removed because of fps improvements, which really noone noticed
umbral reef
Can't deny that
lone scroll
what we got for it is a shitty user experience and removed fun
im trying to sell my fbt setup, because they removed my only reason for it
elder prism
it seems like , they are trying to optimize vrchat for quest, by downgrading it, but most of their users are pc users anyways so i dont see the point, unless they are trying to attract a new audience
lone scroll
^
the worst decision anyone has ever made
crossplay between mobile and pc
imagine trying to sell / pitch that to someone
umbral reef
But drive time so π
meager solstice
thats not a bad selling point tbh..... its basically the same a pc/console cross play
lone scroll
i dont give a shit about quest players, what i give a shit about is the devs ruining the game for 98% of the playerbase that made the game what it is
elder prism
it IS bad if your application would be demanding by nature
meager solstice
i mean the IK was in development before the quest
elder prism
when you allow users to upload content, it already starts to become demanding, regardless of the content
elder prism
i think quest and mobile, should be 1 platform, and pc should be another
pastel galleon
if the toggle is impossible to implement, I hope they just separate pc and quest, and let us have the old IK
lone scroll
id be happy if they made it like 30% more precise, thats fine with me
ruby needle
it needs more work and is far frome done. give it time.
lone scroll
the last update* said "changes to networked ik"
meager solstice
no..... it did not
lone scroll
some heavy tests later, no thing changes
meager solstice
it said "ongoing projects"
pastel galleon
still there are always claims in patches about the ik being improved ecc. and that is not true at all
elder prism
sure that's easy to say, "needs more work give it time" but those "work" should be done in a beta mode, not in the platform that your main users are using
lone scroll
it sohuld have been tested before
and not just pushed out in the may update and fuck everything
pastel galleon
we still have some really old bugs that were never fixed, "give it time" for them means years
elder prism
when making any kind of multi user application, its usually considered bad form to use your users as test subjects
meager solstice
How do u want them to test it tho? 200 people isnt the same as 7k concurrent players
lone scroll
devs are lying and thats the worst things a dev can do
ruby needle
it's not finalized, it's gonna be continously worked on