Not my own. I don't know how to make my own avatars.
#vrchat-general-2
sweet nebula
idle nova
The arm stretch thing is avatar proportions not matching yours probably
sweet nebula
I just grab the public ones.
languid beacon
People out view position between the avatars eyes and that’s only correct when it’s got a realistically proportioned body
dusk mesa
😂
covert linden
im a mmd one with a good placed view point
rough pulsar
Nah, even when it's all 100% configured to match how VRC scales things, some arm stuff is still wrong.
dusk mesa
Yeah its from the avatar
covert linden
My view point is perfect because I now dont experiance any culling rate due to where I put it
tiny ginkgo
but like, i can keep stretching my arm out irl but my avatar arm just stops
languid beacon
You want to out view position so that your vr shoulders line up with your real ones height and front/backside
covert linden
My avatar fits my body perfectly
rough pulsar
Yeah, same. Even though my avatar is aligned to everything within 3mm. Head, shoulder, floor, the lot. Still has these issues.
covert linden
I dont have any of these issues UNLESS my height is messed up in either vrc or WMR home
languid beacon
If you put your left hand on your right shoulder, avatar should do the same. Otherwise fix view position so it does
covert linden
or the avatar is bad
sweet nebula
All the public Nanachis have the same height, so it looks like I'll forever have bent arms, lol
tiny ginkgo
I always have to set my height to be too high in VRC settings, otherwise my avatar is tiptoeing or something
sweet nebula
Oh, I've messed with that. It does nothing to help.
I've run the gamut from the min value all the way up to the max
covert linden
I dont think nanachis are meant to have perfect proportions
rough pulsar
If your avatar is properly scaled, setting the height correctly in the vrc settings puts everything exactly where it should be.
languid beacon
Yeah incorrect real user height settings are crutch that causes more problems than it fixes. Don’t do this especially if you make public avatars
languid beacon
Have your own setting however you like but make sure if you are a creator that your avatars work properly with YOUR TRUE HEIGHT
sweet nebula
It's just the max value. As I'd mentioned, I tried the whole range attempting to remedy the problem; it isn't so much that I have to make it 8ft, as even 8ft didn't work. Perhaps its down to the models themselves.
tiny ginkgo
can i scale the avatar in Unity, or is it a Blender thing?
covert linden
Mine doesnt work with my own height but I dont feeel like adjussstiing it
tiny ginkgo
i mean the height thing mostly
covert linden
mines perfectly proportioned when I make my height wrong
languid beacon
Scaling avatar changes nothing in blender or unity, it will make you smaller but from your perspective the world just gets bigger or smaller nothing changes
tiny ginkgo
hm so what am I looking for to fix this issue?
tiny ginkgo
okay so if I have to scale "myself" too high in VRC Settings, I have to move the Viewport slightly?
or, view position
languid beacon
Yes in unity it’s a property of the avatar descriptor in the top level game object of the avatar
tiny ginkgo
So if I am setting myself to 20 cm too high in user settings, i guess I need to move my view position a bit.. down?
languid beacon
In your case I would recommend going into bone config and leaving the toes not bound to anything
Then it can’t tiptoe and the walk cycle will look less silly too
Before changing anything with the avatar I recommend making sure both oculus (if you have it) and steam have floor height configured correctly
rough pulsar
I'll try re-writing it this week since I lost most my work last time thanks to bullshit electricity, but I was working on a document that explained how to get perfect* avatar scaling in VRChat.
* Perfect meaning within 5mm.
tiny ginkgo
just through the Oculus tool
So once i stop tip toeing, and my Oculus is set up I will try again
well not again, but I will try to mess with the view
I generally feel i have trouble with setting up the correct height in the Oculus tool, so I might need to look into that.. When you tap to "scan" yourself it seems like the sensors appear much lower than they are irl
I might have a deeper problem
languid beacon
With correct floor height and real user height set and a proper view position you should not tiptoe. Tho if you unbind toes will never tiptoe even when your headset is too high up
rough pulsar
@tiny ginkgo If you run things through SteamVR that allows you to use OpenVR Advanced Settings which has a floor height fix tool as part of it.
tiny ginkgo
Okay Gallium - I am upgrading my PC this month and I might try to use VRC through Steam instead then.. Right now I feel like my PC loses too much performance
I would love something like that so I can set up things manually
The Oculus setup procedure is spinechilling
rough pulsar
I hear horror stories about Oculus' room setup procedure. Is it really that bad?
hollow breach
Wadu hek
azure plinth
I dont even use steam vr, I use open composite
Also oculus room setup is horrendous
I skipped it
languid beacon
Oculus room setup is fine if you understand the sensor placement is totally optional but it makes it sound like you have to follow it
So people don’t skip it
But in reality you can literally throw the sensors anywhere and it works perfectly but it’s very VERY picky in what it considers acceptable even tho it would be fine to skip
azure plinth
Ah
idle nova
Good to know
vocal shard
Yeah that's one of the first things I tell people about the rift. Just to proceed even if it says it's not in the right position. Otherwise they can be there for a long time
rough pulsar
I was pleasantly surprised with how good WMR room setup is.
For seated play there's no competition whatsoever, point HMD at PC, click a few times and you're done.
idle nova
Yeah, that new HP WMR headset looks like it'll be great for steated stuff
languid beacon
If you don’t want a guardian you can even move the sensors around after calibration all you want. The only thing that can mess up at that point is floor height which has a quick fix from the menu
languid beacon
I am speaking about rift of course Rift S has no sensors
covert linden
I want rift S so badddddd
one day ;v;
effortless roomscale = best kinda roomscale
idle nova
You got anything now?
covert linden
I got an oculus rift and a WMR
vocal shard
I'm still getting vive for the FBT. That's my final decision
ruby needle
better go index. 
covert linden
I dont want full body because then ive gotta put things on my leggies
vocal shard
No
tiny ginkgo
If I could pick anything it would be the Index, it's so sexy
vocal shard
I'm not that rich sorry maybe in future
covert linden
I dont want trackers on my leggies
languid beacon
I have rift with 3 cameras with vive base stations with 3 body trackers. Deeply considering moving to Index
covert linden
but full body and vive costs around 1k Eli
vocal shard
Yeah but the index is way more
I dont see the problem with Vive so can y'all index fans back off lol
languid beacon
My let me tell you Rift with 3 cameras is perfect I have not lost oculus tracking for even a half a single second after 2000 hours of use
ruby needle
I'd not call it fandom when people recommend a second gen headset that has a lot of improvements 
covert linden
theyre not index fanboys theyre properly educated :D
ruby needle
and uses the same ecosystem
idle nova
I'm getting the Index, but still like my Vive and it's still an okay entry
ruby needle
Especially to a power user which buys into FBT so is willing to spend money
rough pulsar
And have money to spare.
Or at least they did have money to spare 😉 💸
vocal shard
Still no thanks cant change my mind
covert linden
I dislike needing Trackers AND extenders AND adhesive for like 2 meter roomscale with oculus. Not worth it too me id rather the Rift S
idle nova
If you can get a used one to get into the ecosystem it's roughly the price of a new pair of Base Stations
ruby needle
trackers, and adhesive 
covert linden
Trackers like, id need a third lighthouse
idle nova
Seeing Vive listings in my area around $300 now
ruby needle
its not a lighthouse
covert linden
and adhesives because it works best on the wall not my floor
covert linden
Then whats it called a tracking square?
languid beacon
I already have the base stations and trackers so Index and knuckle is only 750. And I cal sell my rift to make some of that up
covert linden
Then sensors, I want roomscale
idle nova
SteamVR Base Stations send out infrared light
rough pulsar
Lighthouse systems are Inside-out tracking.
The devices 'look' outwards for the light from the lighthouses.
hollow breach
I have 2 sensors and it’s 10/10 : 3
covert linden
I cant get a good arrangement, Ive got nowhere to put the sensors if not on the wall
hollow breach
Lol I used boxes xD
rough pulsar
Anyone calling the Vive/Index lighthouses 'cameras' or 'sensors' doesn't know what they are.
covert linden
I dont have free range with what I put onto my wall
torn nebula
4 lighthouses really helps with hip tracking, I find :D
ruby needle
And they're called Lighthouses cus they basically emitt a IR laser grid (and have a little IR LED strip on its selve too)
torn nebula
@covert linden use tension poles
ruby needle
4 lighthouses? o.O
hollow breach
I just have a pile of boxes stacked up in my room so I can put my sensor on it
rough pulsar
V2s probably
hollow breach
Just in the middle of my room
idle nova
The sensors on the SteamVR system are on the headsets and controllers
covert linden
tension poles could work but id still need extention cords and such and wouldnt get perfect roomscale
torn nebula
@ruby needle 2.0 lighthouses, two mounted high, two low
covert linden
With my wmr I have free roam, I can play on my bed, or sit on my desk, I have the full area if I wanted
covert linden
Yes
ruby needle
idle nova
I mean, I do the same with my Vive, just sit whenever in my room
covert linden
Rift S was made with the help of Levono if im not mistaken, so itll work the same if not better (Due to more cameras) than my wmr
ruby needle
it'll definitely be better then a WMR
covert linden
I prefer my wmr over my rift so Itd be nice to have an S
covert linden
Yes
torn nebula
The WMR occlusion issues could, in theory, be fixed by putting cameras (and a beefy processor) on the controllers themselves
covert linden
Because Ive got a hyperactivity issue, so being able to bounce around in any direction all the time without worrying about hey wait wheres my sensors can they reach here is assential
essential
vocal shard
gives up
idle nova
I'd like to see cameras on to back off the headstrap for next gen Inside Out stuff
covert linden
Thats the only part I like more than the oculus, The oculus rift I find is worlds mrore comfortable and I prefer the controllers
but its just enough to make me prefer wmr more
vocal shard
🤔
torn nebula
@idle nova the headstrap is usually at least a little bit bendy to accommodate differing head shapes, which makes calibration tricky
idle nova
Yeah, it'd have to be a more rigid style
torn nebula
Putting cameras on the controllers is a much simpler design but has cost and power issues
idle nova
Oculus controllers feel weird to me in VRC, but I'm used to Vive
vocal shard
Well vive is good but i hate the dildo wands
Id say that
ban isnt removed why?
Huh..
ruby needle
Wrong place for that
steady trail
Lol
ruby needle
idle nova
"General"
torn nebula
@vocal shard email them back, maybe they forgot to flip the switch
covert linden
it might take some time to update.
ruby needle
This doesnt go on discord at all @idle nova
covert linden
they oculus controllers are amazing because if you make the gesture like point a finger, itll do it ingame,
rough pulsar
@vocal shard Give it at least a day. If no change email them. They only do any communication regarding bans via email.
vocal shard
Alright
idle nova
I understand that, but it just felt weird to me after being used to the touch pad
vocal shard
Well it's okay if you enjoy the dildo wands
idle nova
I'm not saying I enjoy them, preordered Index ones
covert linden
thats such a bad name for them
vocal shard
lol
idle nova
More anything different seems weird when you're used to something else
languid beacon
rough pulsar
Yeah. Like I physically can't use the Oculus Touch controller in my left hand for any longer than 5 minutes because of some weird issue with one of my fingers. Results in extreme pain. Same with the Wii nunchucks.
The Vive wands are just big enough the problem doesn't happen and the Index controllers I don't have to hold so that's not a problem.
vocal shard
I guess but some people don't have problems with neither controllers
Eveeyones different (:
rough pulsar
It's unique to everyone.
vocal shard
Index? It's alright but not surprising to me
rough pulsar
Only problems I've had with the EV3 controllers is where the strap rests on some of my hand hair. Starts to itch a bit after an hour or two.
languid beacon
I forget I’m even holding touch controllers they feel invisible . What happens with you gallium
rough pulsar
Horrific pain in my left hand because one of the finger tendons flips onto the wrong side of the knuckle.
vocal shard
ouch
languid beacon
@_@
rough pulsar
Only happens after I close my hand past a certain point. Which happens to be the size of the touch controllers.
hollow breach
rough pulsar
Like, it ends up sitting between my ring and little finger knuckles. Which it definitely ain't meant to do.
vocal shard
@rough pulsar are you sure that it takes time to get unbanned after receiving a message where they say they decided to remove the ban?
languid beacon
I did notice touch has almost the exact same shape as nunchucks which for me is like the most comfortable shape for a controller
rough pulsar
It's fine in my right hand. Just too small for my left so it triggers the problem.
rough pulsar
@vocal shard I can only assume it may take time to update in their system.
Like I said, wait, email. Not gonna get anything else on the discord since VRC bans aren't dealt with here.
vocal shard
Alright i just panic
hollow breach
^
vocal shard
it depends what u were banned for
languid beacon
Panic is good . People who know they were legit banned don’t panic. They complain.
vocal shard
what do u mean it was false?
tribal orbit
Once they implement index into the game does that the leap will also be compatible?
rigid crescent
The index is just a monitor
vocal shard
Basically all my account got banned because i played on my friends alt for like a day, then he's main account got banned and it associated my ip that was on his alt with evade i think. So all my accounts got banned
rigid crescent
Yeah they might not help you there
idle nova
I think Miholi means the controllers
languid beacon
Oh yeah well probably fix that but yeah you really should not account share
rough pulsar
@tribal orbit Possibly.
In the sense that if they use the SteamVR Skeletal Input system, it wouldn't be hard to make the leap motion work with that via a SteamVR driver.
languid beacon
I’ve let friends use my headset at my house but I make them use my account so the IP map does not get linked
tribal orbit
I know that you can kinda do it right now with the preset gestures but you can’t move
idle nova
For the full features of the Index controllers they'd need to tie in the SteamVR Skeletal Input system
rough pulsar
Account sharing = bad
PC sharing = ??? who the fuck knows
idle nova
Which might require an upgraded IK
vocal shard
lol
covert linden
I let my friend take my pc to their house yay for pc sharing
Jk no
rigid crescent
An interest one was a couple that moved in together and both were banned even though neither of them were banned prior lol
languid beacon
Yeah 100% do not trust my best firends
rigid crescent
I distinctly remember them saying it got undone tho
rough pulsar
Not sure why a new IK system would be needed for Skeletal Input, since that has nothing to do with IK except maybe the wrist bone being an IK target?
vocal shard
@rigid crescent same for me i have 900 hours never been banned, and then all of sudden ban for illigal activity till 2023 i panicked as fk
rough pulsar
That's where it'd get weid I guess
languid beacon
I don’t think knuckle really needs IK at all
rough pulsar
VRC had weird support for the Leap Motion years ago, but that got dropped slightly less years ago.
idle nova
I tried Leap, you can have gestures act as button presses
rough pulsar
And no it doesn't, it's all FK. Just bone rotations.
tribal orbit
Really?
rigid crescent
Well again I think accounts sharing is TOS, just hard to get caught if they're not looking for it
Like they're pretty lenient with that shit but
idle nova
Don't recommend it, because I don't hold my hands still and accidentally trigger stuff constantly
Also the FOV is crap on the Leap
languid beacon
Signal wise knuckle is just 0.0 fist to 1.0 open for each finger
tribal orbit
Oh okay
rigid crescent
There's a chance it won't be undone just because. But they'll probably check and they'll know it's not you on the main banned account so they just undo it
vocal shard
heck u cant even use facebook on 2 dif pc from same place
pseudo basalt
You could get that weird move ovr or whatever it's called that straps to your legs and you can move by jogging in place if you want to go full wierd input
languid beacon
They use that with some special gesture blending
rough pulsar
Which gets mapped to bone rotations in the hand model in different ways depending on what mode it's used in @languid beacon
idle nova
If you think the WMR not seeing controllers behind your head is bad, try holding your hands only within your frame of view in game
languid beacon
For example if you are close to doing a peace sign, blend to peace gesture
pseudo basalt
Oh walk ovr, not move ovr
tribal orbit
I don’t really have issues with wmr controller tracking more a less the constant lose of tracking where I can’t move in any direction
quiet sleet
WMR not seeing controllers behind your head? jesus christ man I almost never hold my controllers anywhere other than behind my back or to my sides, let alone in my FOV...
idle nova
Cameras only on the front so yeah
quiet sleet
https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/14276477_f520.jpg this image is me in a nutshell...
idle nova
It'll kinda assume position if it's only momentary
quiet sleet
if I wasn't on a vive I'd almost never have tracking 🤣
languid beacon
Just gimme 32 hand poses for each binary combo of 5 fingers and we good
idle nova
Same
quiet sleet
@languid beacon valve index I'm assuming?
tribal orbit
It could be dark and you lose tracking, get a little too close to some furniture you lose tracking, even doing nothing and you lose tracking, lag and you lose tracking.
languid beacon
Yes
quiet sleet
weird, my headset works best in the dark
torn pelican
Sup.
tribal orbit
Happens way too much
pseudo basalt
Sounds pretty bad. Might as well go for an oculus in that case. Isn't the price to very far apart?
vocal shard
lol lol. i put WMR to see reviews of it and comes up as Where's My Refund
quiet sleet
@languid beacon they should do what climbey does and just animation blend finger curls, sure it isn't perfect but it gets the finger curling right...
pseudo basalt
Altho since oculus uses camera sensors as well, I'm assuming it tracks worse in the dark as well?
idle nova
I'm guessing we're gonna probably get it similar to how Oculus Touch controllers work with the default set of gestures
languid beacon
I don’t think we will get partial squeezes in vrc
quiet sleet
@pseudo basalt which one? don't forget we have rift, quest, and rift S now
If you are referring to the rift, then no, the headset has IR LEDS on it
if you are referring to the quest or rift S, then yes, it uses inside out tracking just like WMR...
idle nova
Reviews of the Rift S seem to indicate it needs partial light, but not a bright room
vocal shard
u can post links in here? i thought u got a warning for that
rigid crescent
Nope
languid beacon
Rift S cannot work in the dark yes. Standard rift works fine in pitch black
idle nova
It's the official Twitter account 🤷
pseudo basalt
I was thinking the rift, since the inside out tracking tech is probably all the same
quiet sleet
I swear that better just be their tests of the gesture system and not how it looks in-game
vocal shard
well u could always hook a flashlight to the rift s. lol
idle nova
That was months ago, big who knows
languid beacon
In the future they could use IR lights and Ir camera so it works in pitch black
velvet quarry
I still doubt that is the official implementation, as that's something that can be done without a single change in the current code.
I imagine it was just the dev hooking the gesture controls of the DV's into VRChat's gesture system.
pseudo basalt
Would be a shame to not have proper finger IK for the knuckles, since they seem to be the best controllers so far
velvet quarry
There's been no official word on how they want to actually implement it, but I would hope it's a bit more then that.
idle nova
Clearly that was just a test, but wouldn't surprise me if that's all we get for now
languid beacon
Individual finger control in vrchat is a requirement for me to get a Index it’s why I haven’t preordered yet lol. I mean it’s up to vrc what they do but it’s just the main reason I’d get one so I’m waiting to see
idle nova
I wanted the controllers for thumbsticks and the fact it straps on, the finger control is a bonus
pseudo basalt
I mean, I'd think the devs would like that when playing themselves, so someone might as well do it so they can have it as well
idle nova
They'd have to redo to whole gesture system
quiet sleet
I honestly think the best way to do it is to have the gesture overrides trigger like they do in the twitter video
vocal shard
ever heard of Plexus?
quiet sleet
but the fingers when not doing a gesture be controlled like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjXSXmHZP3Q
aka the moondust demo or whatever
pseudo basalt
Tupper said bunch of times that the gesture system wasn't really intended for animations and stuff in the first place, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's due for an overhaul at some point in the future
worthy oracle
but animations make quite a bit of fun in vrchat
idle nova
Hopefully we'll learn more from the podcast
pseudo basalt
If there was a different way to trigger animations and fingers could be just pure IK that would be nice, but more IK means more cpu juice used
worthy oracle
that won’t go away, I can see a redesign
languid beacon
Yeah since I have touch already thumsticks don’t matter too much
worthy oracle
maybe it will just be an option for people with index
rough pulsar
@pseudo basalt Fingers don't use IK
pseudo basalt
of course it won't to away, there could just be a better way to trigger them
idle nova
I'm just not gonna be surprised if the initial implementation is like the one tweet
pseudo basalt
Wouldn't they need to for finger tracking?
rough pulsar
Nope.
vocal shard
what is IK?
rough pulsar
Finger stuff is all FK which is cheap as hell
Inverse kinematics
Give a chain of joints a root and a target and IK rotates them to fit between the two points.
pseudo basalt
I see. Well that makes sense.
idle nova
My very rough understanding of IK (please correct if I'm off) is that it's making assumptions of where limbs are based on just a few known points of data
rough pulsar
Essentially yes.
quiet sleet
funny how desktop users use that system.....
idle nova
Standard VR user only the head and hand positions are known so it calculates where elbow should be
quiet sleet
it works the same way with full body tracking
rough pulsar
With all VR users the points between the tracked devices (head, hands, hip & feet) is estimated using IK.
The expensive part is it's always done client side as only the device transforms are sent over the network.
idle nova
Full body adds three extra tracked points
SteamVR Skeletal input seems to be feeding exact position data for the fingers so it's not being calculated
quiet sleet
^^^^
rough pulsar
Yep. SteamVR Skeletal input is just a stream of rotations for each joint in the hand.
pseudo basalt
Guess the controllers do all the assuming then
quiet sleet
aka finger curl animation blending works just fine
that's what climbey does to my understanding, and it works pretty well
rough pulsar
Basically anything that properly implements finger tracking with the ICs
pseudo basalt
I'd think finger tracking would eventually become standard for vr
quiet sleet
if you are on vive and pull the trigger, notice how your fist closes at different intensities, they can just treat the fingers like triggers, but for each finger...
rough pulsar
Climbey, Moondust, Boneworks, SteamVR Home, etc.
pseudo basalt
I'd like other manufactures to follow suit after valve
idle nova
Not sure how much is done client she with them, might be SteamVR interpreting the sensor data, but it'd be client side at any rate
pseudo basalt
Including the fact that there's now more inputs due to the knuckles
idle nova
PiMax claims to be working on similar tech for an advanced version of their controllers
quiet sleet
hey oculus, can you do me a favor and make touch 2.0 controllers with some finger cap sensors? would be nice to allow oculus users to do the same thing as us lighthouse users...
rough pulsar
All of it. With the finger tracking it'd all be done in each user's instance of SteamVR with the values sent over the network. Ideally with the GetSkeletalBoneDataCompressed() function in SteamVR.
idle nova
That makes sense
idle nova
As I understand it if a game incorporates the Skeletal input system SteamVR sends the finger data based on the controller in use, so the game doesn't have to be built for a bunch of different controllers
rough pulsar
With VRC's input system it's likely they'd keep their system for everything except the ICs
languid beacon
@quiet sleet I seem to post this every day for people who don’t know how oculus touch works lol https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DZIaAHJRQzI
languid beacon
Haptics are nice but that’s not gonna work in a user generated world since the content itself needs to be made with haptics in mind. Fingers in vrc have no collision
vocal shard
are nice? heck i would never wear gloves that look like that with all the wires
idle nova
You can't see them in VR
The idea is they give you feedback so it feels like you're touching stuff
Plus these are early prototypes
languid beacon
Anyone who complains how VR stuff “looks” is simply looking at the wrong side of the headset
vocal shard
i know but u can get gloves that do the same and have no wires
languid beacon
Common problem
idle nova
Though having wires sticking out could be an issue for snagging on stuff
vocal shard
right
vocal shard
huh?
idle nova
These are really more like a dev kit at this point
idle nova
But that's not an available product yet
idle nova
It's not, you can't buy it yet
They're still "Taking reservations"
Look their website
vocal shard
that was from 2018
idle nova
And they still having shipped yet
Like I want to be hopeful, but a lot of companies are claiming they can make stuff by certain dates and many of them are way behind
vocal shard
Our first batch of Developer Kit shipments are scheduled for February 2019
idle nova
Just because something is scheduled doesn't mean it happens on time
I want to be proven wrong, but I don't think they've shipped yet
vocal shard
why do u think that?
idle nova
Because I can't find anyone saying they actually have a pair
covert linden
They havent been sent out yet. theyre not done
final vale
@vocal shard if it's againts the rules could i be banned for it ?
Oh and if it's against the rules why does people like lolathon do it but never gets anything ?
steady yarrow
is anyones vr chat messing up
vocal shard
no
hollow breach
Everyone vrchat is messed up
steady yarrow
oh idk if its like a server thing
hollow breach
Gonna make a vid and send it to the team with the bugs the game has, cause they started to annoy me
vocal shard
i have no connection to the mod team, so it's impossible for me to comment on why some things are done how they are. is it accepted? just not known? i don't know @final vale
steady yarrow
oh mine wont even load
idle nova
Bug reports go on the Canny
steady yarrow
its say i have an announcement habrfhraberflhjbalghjnkjghnrljhasrtnfgbljk (more random letters) and than no connection and closes it
vocal shard
thats weird
steady yarrow
yeah
hollow breach
@final vale wut u talking about? What did lolathon do that might be bannable?
vocal shard
sounds like it might be a virus
rigid crescent
Harrassment lol
vocal shard
oka is talking about changing your nameplate
steady yarrow
im stuck at the loading sign
hollow breach
Oh lol ban lolathon
covert linden
its not a virus rad
rigid crescent
They won't ban any famous streamers.
hollow breach
I just wanna see a streamer get banned tbh xD
vocal shard
u might want to run a virus scan
covert linden
its not a virus.
vocal shard
how do u know
@steady yarrow that is the placeholder text, it shows whenever there is a glitch loading
covert linden
because im educated lol
vocal shard
lol
rigid crescent
You think they'd change the place holder text...
steady yarrow
oh okay
covert linden
thats a common issue as Jamie said when theres a glitch loading, its a placeholder, its NOT a virus so dont fear monge
vocal shard
ice how often does it happen?
final vale
@hollow breach basicly a lot of lolathon's avatar can go invisible, including the nametag
rigid crescent
It's not against the rules so
hollow breach
Ban him!!!!
rigid crescent
What's the issue
hollow breach
I remember like months ago someone told me that it was bannable
vocal shard
lol why would that be bannable?
hollow breach
I don’t want a random person who has an invisible avatar listening to y convos
vocal shard
right
hollow breach
Happens in friends world
final vale
This whole topic is like betterdiscord, some ppl say it'll get you banned and other like me know it won't get us banned
rigid crescent
So public?
Don't have them in rooms with other people if you went it to stay private.
vocal shard
i don't think there's anything specific about going invisible, just like modifying your nameplate (which blanket's to hiding it maybe?). but I haven't looked into it much.
rigid crescent
The nameplate thing if I remember right refers to making s mod nameplate
hollow breach
I remember watching this streamer going invisible and listening to people’s conversations
rigid crescent
But just check the rules. It's very easy
hollow breach
Some were a bit embarrassing
languid beacon
Can’t hide nameplate without also hiding all blended transparency it’s a pretty sloppy trick
hollow breach
And they had no idea he was there
modern oar
It forms a shader on your nameplate, if other people are near them, you can see it half of their nameplates dissapear
hollow breach
Ye we know
covert linden
my boyfriend has one where the nametag is visible but totally far from the avatar due to something he did to rig it, not 100% Sure, but so hes perfectly camoflauge
vocal shard
had one friend be invisible in the golf world. all the clouds disappeared from the nameplate shader.
hollow breach
Ye
rigid crescent
Odds are though anything you hear about the game that you or the person telling you can't prove is a lie
So save yourself some grief and assume they aren't telling you the truth.
rigid crescent
Grief as in people here calling you out 👌
hollow breach
Calling me out? I’m just having a convo with u guys lol
vocal shard
isnt there a way to see when someone enters ur world?
hollow breach
Nothing is written in stone
covert linden
social
languid beacon
Yeah you can make avatar very tall with a very low view position to throw nametag way in the air
But your collision box will be very tall
dusky heath
Hello everyone
vocal shard
hey
vocal shard
nm. u
hollow breach
Well IF making ur name plate invisible is not allowed I want to see these streamers get a temp ban
So I can laugh
I have no life...
rigid crescent
They won't be even if they did break rules.
dusky heath
Hm🤔
rigid crescent
Doesn't matter what you do if you're a popular streamer.
vocal shard
who would ban them anyways
hollow breach
@vocal shard do streamers get special privileges?
vocal shard
no
rigid crescent
Even if he could why would he admit it lol
vocal shard
lol
hollow breach
Just a question : )
rigid crescent
I wouldn't blame him for lying even if he did have an answer. Same with any staff. They have to.
vocal shard
lol
i really don't have an answer. i would say no, but i have no influence there anyway so my answer is as good as anyone elses
thats like i got banned on this one server cuz they said i was being toxic to the community
hollow breach
👌
vocal shard
so i talked to an admin and he said ive never seen u being toxic
languid beacon
For what it is worth vrc TOS does not contain the words “invisible” or “nameplate”
hollow breach
Seems like this is a gray area topic
quiet sleet
@languid beacon kind of stupid how that's not how the vive works, nani tf we have a touch pad, a trigger, and a grip button, we have the inputs neccecary for that kind of hand presence... 🤦
vocal shard
Would you pay for a full body tracking HTC vive package, or pay for the new index?
quiet sleet
neither because I don't have that kind of money all at once 🤣
languid beacon
However it may violate “may not use the Service in any manner to harass, abuse, stalk, threaten, defame, or otherwise infringe or violate the rights of any other party;”
vocal shard
But what would you do if you did.
languid beacon
Since it’s pretty stalky
quiet sleet
New index, then trackers later
vocal shard
Trackers?
final vale
The index looks like a space helmeth
idle nova
Used Vive + full body, upgrade to Index later
quiet sleet
I currently have an HTC vive with 3 trackers, and I pre-ordered the index controllers alone
might get the new base stations and headset later down the line to shut people up about how I'm an HTC fanboy, seriously just because I prefer the vive over the rift doesn't mean I'm a vive fanboy, i'm a lighthouse tracking fanboy, there's a difference...
vocal shard
Index is compatible with full body vive?
idle nova
Used Vive can be had for close to our just over the price of a pair of Base Stations
Yes
vocal shard
Really? That's news to me. Index for the neat headset and controllers and then the trackers huh.
final vale
Can i use index controllers with my vive headset ?
idle nova
Yes
quiet sleet
@vocal shard it is
same with pimax
anything that uses valve's lighthouses works with full body tracking and eachother
velvet quarry
SteamVR is a modular system that should work with different hardware in general.
idle nova
Vive was co-developed by Valve
quiet sleet
aka you can use the index controllers with a pimax or an orginal vive, or a vive pro
vocal shard
So you'd buy the index headset and controllers along with htcv vive trackers, or do you need to have a vive headset
idle nova
Valve basically came up with the tech and Valve manufactured it
quiet sleet
@vocal shard all you need for vive trackers are lighthouses, no vive or vive pro neccecary
vocal shard
Lighthouses..
rigid crescent
Baystations, lighthouses
quiet sleet
Okay let me explain the lighthouses, it's a semi-universal tracking system developed by valve in use by 3 seperate headset manufacturers
idle nova
Well in your case if you can't afford Index+full body now I'd buy a Vive bundle and the trackers, then the Index headset and controllers later
rigid crescent
Sensors, people call them a lot
quiet sleet
HTC, Valve, and Pimax
idle nova
You're gonna be waiting until September
vocal shard
Not much you can do about that.
quiet sleet
There's a reason I pre-ordered just the controllers, I'd rather wait until june 28th not fucking september 🤣
idle nova
Well if you get a Vive now and upgrade later you get the benefit of having VR
vocal shard
More money I dont have.
idle nova
That's why I said to find a used Vive kit
It's what I'd do if I woke up in your position
Used Vive's are getting cheaper, I'm seeing $300 listings in my area
quiet sleet
god damn 🤣
idle nova
Which is the price of a pair of Base Stations from Valve
vocal shard
But doesn't the index require a bulky pc
quiet sleet
@vocal shard not much bulkier than the vive actually
a standard GTX 1070 is plenty enough for it
quiet sleet
a fucking 4th gen I7 is capable of running an original vive so don't be too freaked out about it
vocal shard
i5
idle nova
Hell, I got started on VR with a 10year old AMD CPU at the time
quiet sleet
yeah, CPU shouldn't really be that much of a problem afaik
my PC has a fairly old CPU and runs VR just fine, hell it's old enough it's running on DDR3 ram
idle nova
Yeah, my first VR system was DDR3 as well
For Index I'd want a bit better, but you don't need something crazy either
quiet sleet
I just checked the specs, holy crap the index only requires a 1060 or 970 just like the vive, but requires displayport... and a dual core processor with hyperthreading atleast...
idle nova
Yeah, that'll work
quiet sleet
if my understanding of processors is decent, you should be fine
idle nova
What GPU do you have?
quiet sleet
I'd suggest a 1070 just to be safe if you can find a cheap one
vocal shard
Yeah definitely.. Lol..
quiet sleet
like just get a used 1070 or something it'll definitely probably maybe work 🤣
vocal shard
Probably maybe work
idle nova
1070 or 2060 would be good choices
vocal shard
Arnt 1080s around 400 usad?
quiet sleet
a 1080 would be a bit overkill
quiet sleet
GPU pricing is back to decent levels, cryptominers didn't fuck it up permanantly thank god
vocal shard
Isn't 2060 overkill or do I not know how gpu's work.
idle nova
2060 is roughly equivalent of 1070, but with the "RTX" stuff
vocal shard
Ahhh
quiet sleet
It's basically a 1070 with RT cores
vocal shard
2060 is equivalent to a 1070ti
1660-ti is 1070
Different brands yep. Makes me wonder what an Intel 640 would be equivalent to.
quiet sleet
does intel even make GPUS?
idle nova
Wait, are you on a laptop?
vocal shard
Nope.
idle nova
Isn't that an iGPU?
quiet sleet
oh god if it's an IGPU I feel sorry for ya because holy crap that thing must be horrible 🤣
tribal orbit
I played 500+ hrs of vrchat on a igpu
quiet sleet
Yeah, I remember having a GT 640, oh god that thing sure as hell didn't feel like an Nvidia GPU
so glad I swapped that out for a 970, funny because it just so happened to be one of the reccomended VR cards
vocal shard
So then any recommendations to replace my uh.. Garbage?
quiet sleet
GTX 1070 if you can find one used and cheap, that's all I can say...
quiet sleet
I got my 970 for 200 bucks almost 5 years ago and have been using it for VR since late 2017/early 2018
PS: a 970 is a pretty good card considering when it came out...
languid beacon
I don’t see how they say 970 is ok
I have a 970 and I get 33 fps in vrc home on RIFT
While alone
On an excellent avatar
Anything else is worse
970 is not “good enough” for vrc. Maybe vr in general but not vrc
meager solstice
30fps = good i guess
vocal shard
lower is better
meager solstice
yeah i like to see individual frames
vocal shard
ya
meager solstice
so u can react faster
umbral reef
Powerpoint presentation slideshow speed 👌
Once you get that its perfect
vocal shard
usually 30+ starts to get laggy
languid beacon
33 is headache for me honestly everything vibrates
pearl granite
The sweet spot is when you can count the fps with one hand
vocal shard
lol
cinder hound
can yall help me by filling that survey
crimson vessel
I will
vocal shard
wrong place for that
vocal shard
na
cinder hound
makes sense
crimson vessel
ok, idk anything yet
vocal shard
vrchat isnt the server to post that on
cinder hound
ur right mb
umbral reef
#shameless-self-promotion is better
pearl granite
I see alot of ppl inront of the mirrors in most worlds. What is the appeal? just curious as a fairly new player.
vocal shard
That's how it is nowadays sadly
viral pumice
Sometimes I feel like there is something in my virtual hair.
vocal shard
easier to talk to a few people, and it adds some immersion seeing yourself in a mirror with the avatar following your movements. helps to put yourself into the avatar. but it's nice to actually go and do stuff rather than be in the mirror
viral pumice
And I spend hours examining it
tiny ginkgo
What Jamie says is pretty precise
vocal shard
Yes it's true
viral pumice
Meh meh
tiny ginkgo
Bond i have quite full hair.. I have it sitting so when I shake my head to the side it moves like cat ears
It um, helps with my neko lifestyle ..
viral pumice
Irl or your avatar?
tiny ginkgo
Irl
viral pumice
Ahh
tiny ginkgo
I have neko ears on vrc
viral pumice
Hmmm we haven’t met yet on vrc, have we?
tiny ginkgo
I just thought about it when you said you feel like you have something in your hair.. I do too, intentionally
No unfortunately not
viral pumice
Ah, and oh. Well maybe one day lol
viral pumice
Oh?
tiny ginkgo
Timezones
viral pumice
What time is it for you?
tiny ginkgo
Spain time
viral pumice
Ahh
tiny ginkgo
It's 22 now
viral pumice
Oh 6 ahead of me then
vocal shard
dog i think u are in the wrong place
languid beacon
He gets a ton of friend requests probably just clearing out his contacts to the people he knows
languid beacon
Nope. I think they’re awesome though
Vrchat does not have messaging? What? @vocal shard
vocal shard
hmm i coulda swore it did
languid beacon
Do you like.. even play vrchat lol
vocal shard
ya but havent been on in awhile
languid beacon
Interesting didn’t know that I’ll check it out pretty sure there is nothing like that but I could be wrong
Yeah there is no messaging system even on the website. You can receive mail but not send
languid beacon
Well you are trying to contact a pretty popular guy. Ping him on Twitter I guess just keep in mind he probably gets it a ton so he might not notice
pearl granite
Do you need a vrchat account to rank up from visitor or is just steam account ok?
languid beacon
You can rank up but you won’t get upload ability unless you hit blue rank as a vrchat account
You can convert to a vrc account to save your play time and rank without starting over
pearl granite
Cool I'll probably do that then thanks!
vocal shard
how do u convert to a vrc account?
Oculus full body tracking with the lighthouse method?
desert stratus
you asking if uncan use fullbody with a rift?
vocal shard
Yes.
desert stratus
yeah, as long as you have light hpuses
idle nova
The method used for the Rift CV1 and fullbody will probably work with the Rift S
idle nova
No one has one to test it yet
Only a handful of reviewers have them and to my knowledge none of them are playing VRChat with full body
But you need to pay for light houses on top of the headset and trackers
Lighthouses + Rift was always more expensive than just buying a Vive
Plus it's not like it just works out the box, you gotta screw around with syncronization
vocal shard
:T
idle nova
The reason people did it was because they hated the Vive controllers and the Rift is debatably slightly more comfortable
idle nova
I have both headsets, I prefer Vive with Deluxe Audio Strap, but can see why people like the original Oculus
Weighs less, which helps
vocal shard
has it's own audio
idle nova
So does Vive w/ DAS
vocal shard
the only really bad think about rift is that its wired. where as the quest isnt so can be farther away
thing^
idle nova
Yeah, but the Quest is a completely different platform
It's a totally different version of game
vocal shard
The Quest would be generally only used if you travel a lot, or plan to use it in many locations.
And, yeah, it's a completely separate platform.
idle nova
I totally get the appeal of the Quest
vocal shard
where do u get its a dif platform?
idle nova
The Quest has an ARM processor
idle nova
Doesn't tether to a PC, doesn't work with SteamVR or OpenVR
ARM is the processors used in smartphones
As opposed to x86 PC processors
vocal shard
if it has a ARM processor then it would only work with smartphones
idle nova
The Quest has a low powered computer built in, vs being tethered to a powerful gaming PC
🤦
ruby needle
ARM doesnt nesseseirly mean Smartphone, buts its more or less low performance
vocal shard
The quest can run itself, it isn't on like the "minimum requirement scale" for running VR.
idle nova
They literally took a smartphone processor and stuck it in a VR headset
vocal shard
And the Rift (S) could be tethered to a powerful gaming pc (via wires), but that limits.. lots of stuff.
finite sky
So far whenever ive asked if anyone knows where a specific avatar is iv'e gotten no answers but i'll try again. I'm looking for Ash Ketchum from pokemon. If he exists in multiple locations to try them out that would be great. I use his avatar to do my voice impression of the character from 1998-2006 era. Thanks if anyone answers!
vocal shard
did u do a search for ash avatars?
finite sky
I know about the one from the zelda temple of time map but he has no mouth animations or special emotes. And yes I did. So far I haven't found any results which means that nobody is putting his name in world descriptions.
I met someone in the pug by chance that knew about the one i currently have and thats how i got him.
Ill search again maybe some descriptions have been updated by chance.
rigid crescent
Might just have to up one yourself
vocal shard
hang on i will find some
finite sky
Thing is that I dont know how any of that works any many people have tried to teach me without luck.
Unity and blender are hell for me to work with.
vocal shard
man theres a ton of them
rigid crescent
It's like 8 or 9 clicks in blender
finite sky
even basic stuff overwhealms me and I feel dumb because of it, theres so many buttons.
umbral reef
Tries watching a video and pressing the exact same buttons as the video?
rigid crescent
I mean so? Ignore them and hit thr ones the YouTube video tells you to
finite sky
dude, its so horrible that ive gotten lost in video game menu screens before
ive given up on it
rigid crescent
You found images of Ash. Gj lol
finite sky
idk man maybe im just blind
vocal shard
?
rigid crescent
You just found images of Ash lol they want an avatar.
finite sky
well cant look myself because vr chat is being weird again and keeps losing all button controls other than looking around with the mouse
vocal shard
hmm
rigid crescent
Well only option is learning to upload yourself if none exist
finite sky
im actually fucked then
finite sky
literally id rather comission one with money because im so program daft
vocal shard
u go the image u want to use, save it then upload it
finite sky
a 3d model thats rigged isnt the same thing as an image??
rigid crescent
They mean a VRchat avatar how was the talk of visemes not obvious
And maps and worlds
languid beacon
The Quest CPU is overclocked and actively cooled and will run much better than you’d expect from a mobile chip (though it does run hot)
vocal shard
what do u mean overclocked?
finite sky
rad thats not how it works? a google image wont magically be a 3d rigged and animated vr chat avatar??
languid beacon
By overclocked I mean literally overclocked. There’s not really another word for that
Consult Wikipedia :p
ruby needle
You can overclock it of its normal specs as much as you want
a 8ghz OC'd original Pentium wont run shit today.
It's just not a powerfull platform to begin with
umbral reef
I highly enjoy how rad always instantly droppes his trolling to not get a warning
So fpaul, is he getting away with it again by being an asshole, trolling users in chat again and being a cunt towards users who need proper support?
rigid crescent
Oh, it's a "I was only pretending to be retarded" gag
languid beacon
You can increase a CPU’s performance by any amount you want. But if you double a cpu speed you double the heat. This will literally melt and destroy your CPU. So you can overclock only so far as you can keep it cooled
umbral reef
Id say look into his chat history and you will find him doing this exact thing towards users who need help atleast every other day Mic. So yes.
ruby needle
And, hm
rigid crescent
Good to know who to disregard lol
umbral reef
Its so 'bad' that i preemptive dm users in this chat to warn about him. Also same reason why loads of regulars ignore him by now (Ask Rea).
CBA to do what i just did because its trying to explain weeks of actions in a msg and lmao, gl proving to me for trying to prove what i just claimed.
languid beacon
Yes it isn’t just that easy. Just explaining overclocking in general. Yes it’s more complicated than that but this guy didn’t even know the word. So...
ELI5ing
ruby needle
But its not how it works in general
Making something clock faster doesnt make it consume much more by default, for that you need raise core voltages which often is required to get something stable, but you just aswell can be able to OC something without touching that so not really any extra heat.
Thats a fundermental difference
hollow breach
I’m taking physics and I should know this stuff but I don’t ;;
languid beacon
👍
umbral reef
Guess rad gets scots free again lmao
sick sonnet
are servers down?
languid beacon
@umbral reef Scott free for what?
umbral reef
From the looks of VRCbots numbers- Nope
Trolling people who need support and are giving support again
balmy zodiac
vrchat should come to android phones with the quest release tbh
languid beacon
He’s been doing that for weeks but he’s probably just some kid who thinks he’s helping
balmy zodiac
maybe even apple
languid beacon
Don’t think it’s trolling
balmy zodiac
the more people the bbetter
languid beacon
Unhelpful absolutely
umbral reef
No- He stated early on he did it on purpose.
languid beacon
Ah right then
umbral reef
@balmy zodiac A specially cooled, non bloatware processor aint the same as a phone one...
A snapdragon aint a actively cooled snapdragon
finite sky
alright ill ask again does anyone know of some ash ketchum avatars that have eye and mouth animation at least?
balmy zodiac
you're right, it should run even better
finite sky
rad is very unhelpful indeed
balmy zodiac
with a quest you're duplicating it on two screens at 72hz while also accounting for the SLAM tracking and inverse kinematics
finite sky
pretty sure theres a bunch hidden around but the world makers just arent putting in proper descriptions
ruby burrow
Makes me wonder if "VR Chat Quest" would ever instead become "VR Chat Mobile" when the Cosmos releases.
The ability to connect to more powerful mobile processors, but without the same cooling. Which wins and where's the tipping point?
ruby needle
what are you gonna use for controll tho
Also, if you aproach the open android world its HUGE
that goes for compatibility of hardware features to versions
ruby burrow
Though personally I'm kind of expecting Rec-Room to win as the more popular VR social experience on Quest.
ruby needle
with the Quest and then maybe Cosmos you at least know your target platform
ruby burrow
It's going to be a far less painful experience than VR-Chat on mobile.
vocal shard
I don't think you can connect third party applications to the Quest, e.g. Twitch, or livestreaming, obs, etc.
ruby burrow
Cosmos can connect to either a PC or your mobile phone. That's it's entire concept.
Was declared on day one.
vocal shard
amiright
ruby burrow
It's kind of like a weird cross between the Rift-S and Quest.
ruby needle
If you want to do livestreaming of VR games, buying a quest is literally the most stupid thing to do, so that shouldnt be a issue
ruby burrow
Four cameras, PC tether, ability to use a phone for mobile processing. But lacking the more true "all in one" nature of the Quest.
balmy zodiac
we dont know that
the phone could mean anything. I highly doubt it connects to a phone.
Highly.
ruby burrow
I'm pretty sure HTC said it themselves Arch. It was the initial announcement.
balmy zodiac
No it wasn't.
I've been following VR for quite some time, HTC never announced it aside from the wordless trailer.
yeah
vocal shard
Opening up Discord in my brand new Oculus Quest.
ruby burrow
Hmm. Fair enough, I can't find anything explicitly stating it no.
However they do have definite intent on pursuing mobile VR in some manner. Having said things like this...
HTC Vive America GM Dan O’Brien announced that they’d have more to share leading up to Cosmos’ launch, including “the kinds of form-factors it can expand into.”
An HTC spokesperson later confirmed with Road to VR that Vive Cosmos definitely has “additional ambitions” beyond its function as a tethered PC VR headset.
In any case, it's hard not to feel like they may have missed the boat a bit.
mellow oriole
hey there is this thing im trying to find
its in the end of a video and i recognize it from somewhere and i've been looking for quite a while and i cannot find it
ruby burrow
Unless they can keep it bellow $500, they've lost the entry level and casual markets to Oculus, and with the Index out now, the Vive-Pro is going to struggle to be relevant even despite it's eye tracking features on the newer model.
languid beacon
Most content won’t be accessible on a quest so if you’re into streaming you definitely don’t want to quest
idle nova
Vive Pro is a joke with the Index out now
ruby burrow
Yeah. The eye tracking on the new one is the only thing that makes it remotely relevant to anyone.
idle nova
The Vive Pro Eye model is probably the only selling point, and that'd be limited to developers and some commercial applications
languid beacon
Outdated, yes, joke, no
idle nova
At the price point it's bad
ruby burrow
And as much as I'm hyped for eye tracking, it's not going to be a significant factor until more of the market adopts it as standard hardware.
idle nova
Eye tracking is important, and useful for training type applications
mellow oriole
ok um where can i go to get my questions answered
idle nova
If you're training like pilots or collecting data on VR interface it'll be the one to get until we have more eye tracking options
Uh, general tends to have multiple conversations going at once chiyo
Cosmos is PC tethered, but I got the impression they wanted to make like a mini computer you could plug into it also
ruby burrow
Random chat allows you to post videos, so maybe if you ask directly there someone can help, perhaps
Otherwise, it's worth asking the full question right away normally. Might seem more polite to ease in first, but people are usually unlikely to ask what the rest of the question is.
idle nova
TBH, the Cosmo reveal struck me as "our shareholders are pressuring us to have competition for the Quest, just show them a design prototype and be very vague about details so we can show that we're working on something"
ruby burrow
Yeah, the Cosmos store page makes specific mention to being "upgradable" and "modular".
mellow oriole
oh tupper is on a dwarf fortress discord im in
idle nova
I could see them offering a mini computer for it that's basically a stripped down screenless smartphone type of thing
ruby burrow
I do feel like HTC is in a tough spot now. Playing too reactionary. Too late on the camera based tracking to win the "external trackers are scary" crowd, too expensive to win general entry level, and have done nothing to appease the enthusiast crowd.
idle nova
Like the computer that's in the Quest, but as a separate thing
ruby burrow
The only area they're still ok on, is the enterprise side of things, but despite pitching the Vive-Pro as a premium headset, it's considerably dwarfed by the likes of XTAL and STAR-VR.
idle nova
The only thing the Cosmos could have going for it would be if it could be setup to be either a tethered PC headset, a mobile headset (with a mini computer module, or both
So like you could buy it as a standalone, and then hook it to a computer if you upgrade later
ruby burrow
I believe Cosmos was also claimed to include eye tracking? Perhaps it can fulfil the budget eye tracking niche for a while.
idle nova
Or use it with your computer, and then have the ability to take it traveling without a full laptop
I mean, there's companies interested in VR that aren't willing to shell out for XTAL
My company has a few Vive's we use for client demos and just to explore the future tech, but we don't have enough of a case for XTAL level hardware
mellow oriole
ok then here goes i need help finding a mastodonsaurus avatar, i saw it in one of jameskii's vids and i recognize it and know the guy who made it; it's a roblox model lol
but i dont know who ported it over to vrchat and where i can acquire it
languid beacon
Look all I’m saying is the first person to make a vr headset that has built in eye tracking and gets vrchat to support it will make all of my money.
idle nova
I don't see the point in Eye tracking until there's useful software for it
languid beacon
Screwe vive pro, screw valve index, give me eye tracking and all of that is just noise
I don’t need useful software I just need my avatar to look where I’m looking and I’m good that’s totally worth an extra thousand bucks for me
idle nova
The point in my getting it, I definitely see uses for it
languid beacon
Don’t judge me.
idle nova
That requires VRChat to implement it though
languid beacon
Yeah that’s why I said so lol
ruby needle
well the reason for it mainly is not actuall eye tracking in games and such but rendering based on where you look at
idle nova
It'll just sit on the Canny
ruby needle
and lower scale rendering other places outside the view.
languid beacon
Well to be quite honest the best way to push new hardware is for VR chat to support it
:p
earnest heron
..
idle nova
Foveated rendering will be nice, but again needs software support for me to buy in
ruby burrow
There's an amazing amount of potential for eye tracking in almost any VR software. The issue is just that classic catch 22.
That until the hardware is a standard feature, there's no reason to develop for it, and until there's a software base for it... etc
idle nova
Social VR is definitely my "killer app" and VRC is currently the best platform
languid beacon
^
idle nova
Yup
I did actually get VR before I got into VRC
But VRC is what i actually spend time on
ruby burrow
The thing that is still giving me hope for foveated rendering, despite Index sadly not featuring the eye tracking, is that Nividia is pushing for it.
That's not a small name.
They want an extra reason for people to be interested in their RTX cards.
languid beacon
I bought an oculus DK2 but got disinterested in the VR until my friend showed me VRchat on their CV1 and I bought my own CV1 the very next day and have been playing ever since and that was a year ago
idle nova
Oh I think it'll happen, because it'll let higher res VR run on lower spec systems
Got my Vive for Elite then barely played
desert stratus
there's no way it cant. one of the main things holding back PCVR adoption is pricing, even at $400 some people still need to upgrade a processor here or a GPU there
idle nova
Be nice to see super high res screens paired with it, though we also might need better lenses
ruby burrow
I was seriously hoping that Index would push for eye tracking also, since having both Valve and Nividia behind it would basically guarantee that FR happened.
languid beacon
Quest is amazing but the problem is with something like VR chat most developers don’t want to scale back the graphics that far
desert stratus
if foveated rendering (built-in foveated rendering by the HMD manufacturer and not just third-party VR devs) becomes good enough to go commercial
and can bring even 2k headsets to GPUs as low as a 1050ti
thatll be much bigger than anything else for PCVR adoption right now
ruby burrow
Don't want to or cant, in the case of VR-Chat creators.
idle nova
I don't think it's they don't want to, they want to be on Quest because Quest is gonna sell
languid beacon
Yeah the index not having eyetracking was disappointing, it would’ve been an instant purchase for me of it had it.
desert stratus
even if it did, im not sure if foveated rendering is quite there yet
inner cape
as if its implemented in vrc
desert stratus
this is less of a software thing and more of an eye-tracking thing imo/iirc
ruby burrow
Some optimisation tasks are just beyond the skills and time required from an amateur content dev making stuff for fun.
desert stratus
good point\
vocal shard
i like quest cuz u can literally go hundreds of feet away and it still work
desert stratus
but hey, if you like pretty colors and toon designs, developing for mobile would be perfect for you
idle nova
We can go on about how superior PC VR is, but most people just ain't gonna spend the money
ruby burrow
If we were selling our worlds and avatars to Quest owners, it'd be a little different. But as is, the vast majority of VRC devs are just making content for themselves and their friends.
desert stratus
which is a number of VRChat avatars since most are vibrant, colorful anime characters that are relatively low-detail overall
idle nova
That's the real issue, most developers don't have the resources to develop for the Quest
ruby burrow
It's a big extra ask to go to that effort for a new semi-segregated user base.
vocal shard
and to use quest u dont need a gaming pc unlike rift
idle nova
Or they're putting out low quality content like the bulk of the GearVR and Go apps
desert stratus
i think even if nobody here is hard-pressed to develop content for the quest, maybe some quest users will pick up their underpowered PCs/laptops and take up the torch of making content themselves
idle nova
Yeah, there's definitely people interested in developing VRC stuff for the Quest
I think it may have it's own ecosystem of users
desert stratus
PC VRChat is already a niche within the niche of PCVR within the the group of VR in general, and a load of content gets uploaded to it everyday
exactly! i take too long to get to the point ^ ^`
if we can make a ton of content whether we have 100 or 6,000 users on a daily, there will definitely be people from the quest who are more than willing to make mobile content than current PC creators
i wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being more quest users anyway
idle nova
Well, part of the reason VRChat currently gets a lot of content is people can kitbash MMD models
vocal shard
kitbash?
idle nova
MMD models are just way too high poly for Quest
ruby burrow
Most VR-Chat avatars may be relatively cartoony and low detail, but the majority are also amateur made MMD models, modified to a new purpose by more amateurs.
The resulting efficiency is usually far from being an optimal mobile friendly model.
idle nova
Taking parts from different models and combining them
vocal shard
oh ok
desert stratus
that is true
ruby burrow
Like, if you're ripping Neptunia models from the games, those are already incredibly optimised and may do well on Quest. But the wider MMD based stuff is not going to transfer easily.
idle nova
I could see a lot of Quest users working with avatars ripped from older games
6th gen console and earlier games
desert stratus
but if what i hope comes true - that there are more quest users than pcvr users - then hopefully there will be a relatively large number of people willing to do the optimization for mobile
actually you have a point
idle nova
Like how Kareeda brought in modern Laura Croft, but the Quest version in the old PlayStation model
desert stratus
they probably will rip a lot of mobile models
console* models
old models
why did i say mobile i cant think lol
idle nova
The one big friction point I see is people not understanding the differences between Quest and PC VRChat.
ruby burrow
Personally I'll be porting whatever of my own content is easy to port, but am unlikely to attempt the rest.
Which is probably about 5% of anything I've ever worked on. ^ ^;
idle nova
Either getting a Quest because they saw it on YouTube or twitch and not having the same experience
ruby needle
i never looked up world requirements. Will quest worlds have a mirror?
If no, quest is never gonna succeed
idle nova
Or looking at avatar tutorials for PC and not realizing they don't really apply to Quest
Mirrors are in the works I think
Worlds are limited to 10k polys
ruby needle
For a worlds that, oof
ruby burrow
I believe mirrors on Quest are going to be hard locked the the avatar only style.
inner cape
they do still apply, you'd just have to optimise even harder lmao
idle nova
Also 10 player limit per world
ruby needle
That i know, and is okay
idle nova
Well, MMD models can't be straight imported
idle nova
I think you can make the world more complex if you have a lower player limit
inner cape
mirrors wont save quest
you wont have anything good to look at
idle nova
I haven't seen one that's under the 5k poly limit
ruby burrow
I hope the typical troll avatars with zoom shaders and annoying audio don't ever get a Quest port.
Because neither custom shaders nor avatar audio will be on Quest, yet if they use the corresponding gestures, PC players would still see them.
So Quest users could be running around blinding and ear bleeding people, without even knowing.
inner cape
just split an avatar into pieces, like arms, legs, body, etc
tadaa, quality avatar on quest split amongst 10 people, each using 1 part
vocal shard
lol
ruby burrow
I have a 700 poly cat avatar from Monster Hunter 2. Technically an MMD, but... not really.
Lol. Quest users can just build a combo avatar with chairs.
Megazord style.
inner cape
exactly
vocal shard
anyone else getting kicked constently back to their home world?
ruby burrow
Which is something I've already wanted to try for months. But that's just the problem isn't it.
"What should I do today, optimise my worlds for Quest, or pursue one of my other four dozen more fun and interesting ideas waiting in the list."
vocal shard
what is MMD?
ruby burrow
MMD = Miku Miku Dance
vocal shard
ok
ruby burrow
Basically 95% of all anime avatars in VR-Chat.
vocal shard
Where do I go for help with a issue?... cuz like being in a world for 5mins or less i get booted to homeworld
how long has it been happening?
ruby needle
Hey 
@vocal shard
This discord is no message proxy to get in contact with people who otherwise dont allow you to contact them
vocal shard
dog why dont u just dm pika
empty wharf
Anyone here the small percent of non anime avatars?