vrchat-general-2

[languid beacon]

Hf is too.. low level for most people. I mean it can scale but who is gonna pay for their own hosting ? They are creating it like a 3D Internet entriely decentralized I don’t think that can work

[stone current]

u dont need hosting

they have their own file hosting

[prisma plover]

HF feels like some sort of dev kit.

[stone current]

but also HF has pretty shitty mechanics

u cant see whos talking and the physics is extremely buggy

[rigid crescent]

HF works with Desktop as well, soooo

[stone current]

on every map i would sometimes just fling out the map and get stuck in walls

[prisma plover]

Hence people would try it and quickly abandon it.

[umbral reef]

Also if i may ask- Why are we talking about these 'If VRC shuts down'

[stone current]

idk topic of the moment

[rigid crescent]

Because people seem to think this game is the end-all for VR

[stone current]

https://giphy.com/gifs/morning-perfect-loops-bbshzgyFQDqPHXBo4c

how about doggos eh

[prisma plover]

@umbral reef To show how VRChat is precious ? 😆

[rigid crescent]

as far as social spaces.

[errant vault]

Facebook vr

[tiny ginkgo]

It is Mic! We have peaked with animemes and headpats

[rigid crescent]

it's merely a hypothetical. All you need to succeed in VRC's absence is MMD models lol

[languid beacon]

Something like VRChat must exist. If it’s not VRChat something else like it must replace it

[vocal shard]

not just social spaces, currently it is the only good vr game

[stone current]

i wonder if theres realtime stats on how many vr users are on vrchat rn as opposed to any other apps

[rigid crescent]

Except you're wrong, and that's subjective anyway

[prisma plover]

@rigid crescent And actual, practical ingame mechanics / ease of use

[stone current]

but thats some big data stuff

[tiny ginkgo]

Aaah I wouldn't say it's the only good VR game, but whatever, that's subjective

[stone current]

the thing about vr games atm tho is

most of them are just kinda minigames

[prisma plover]

Oh no definitely not the only good VR game. It's not even a "good game" if compared to some other games. lol

[languid beacon]

It’s like a universal constant. The lightbulb would have always been invented even if Edison or anyone else haddent. Meta verse is the same way it’s gonna happen no matter who it is

[vocal shard]

exactly

[stone current]

not like fully developed games with story or anything

[vocal shard]

and that makes them shit aka not good

[stone current]

other than fallout vr ig

[tacit plank]

https://discourse-cdn-sjc1.com/business6/uploads/highfidelity/original/2X/6/6ec08e7dadc0578649d67ebddc417eb7f724edf7.png it's a bit outdated, but I found this

[errant vault]

You just need bots to shoot

[rigid crescent]

What are you even on about? They're not MMOs so they're bad?

[errant vault]

Ai battles

[tiny ginkgo]

ummm games don't need long stories or whatever to be good

[stone current]

ik but thats not my point

[lapis nebula]

Stop calling VRChat a game, it’s not a game, it’s a social environment, is a chat room a game, no, it’s a chat room

[stone current]

like a lot of them are minigames or collections of minigames

[tacit plank]

VRChat dwarfs other social VR games

[prisma plover]

@tacit plank I'm tempted to say: That's what ease of use and relaxed import policies allow. The graph I mean.

[stone current]

not a full whole game

[errant vault]

It's a game

[lapis nebula]

Lookup definition of game

[tacit plank]

I agree, the other games have such ugly avatars

[tiny ginkgo]

That doesn't exist Kry

[stone current]

ik what a game is

[errant vault]

If it's on steam, it's a game

[tiny ginkgo]

Try to look it up

[stone current]

but im saying

[tiny ginkgo]

It's super discussed and a formal definition was never really found

[stone current]

the amount of content and what the game offers

[floral aspen]

There is software on steam, so your argument that if its on steam its a game is invalid

[tiny ginkgo]

But I get your point

[errant vault]

This game involves a lot of socializing

[lapis nebula]

@errant vault it’s not always been on steam

[prisma plover]

The other VR social platforms are not as attractive to the average VR user as VRChat. Like... they lack the charm.

[tiny ginkgo]

I wouldn't call VRC a game either personally, but for the sake of the discussion eeh I don't think it matters that much

[stone current]

what i mean is stuff like Pavlov and Beat Saber and Wardust and Rec Roometc

[floral aspen]

yeah, like High Fidelity for example doesn't have shaders

[covert linden]

Technically by definition its a game

[errant vault]

Is my udon ready already?

[languid beacon]

Please don’t start the whole “don’t call it a game” meme lol https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CRUQX8To2Gw @lapis nebula fastest way to get made fun of

[rigid crescent]

a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

By your logic tons of things aren't games

[covert linden]

But I dont caall it a game

[stone current]

those are all games wher eu just kinda hop in a lobby and do stuff

[covert linden]

Oh the definiation changed

[tiny ginkgo]

As I said there is no formal definition for games

There's a lot of them

So it depends on which one you pick

[stone current]

but i mean like there isnt a really well developed, very interesting game

[prisma plover]

I think we might need to drop the whole "It's a game" debate before it turns into a firefight.

[rigid crescent]

He'll pick the one that suits his narrative, of course

[stone current]

like the kinda stuff that comes out on consoles and pc not for vr

[tiny ginkgo]

That's how it works in academics as well

[lapis nebula]

@languid beacon I always get made fun of, so, it’s fine, I just personally consider it a social environment rather than a game

[floral aspen]

yeah, we'll summon Ruuubick if this keeps up

[rigid crescent]

There's a difference between "I consider it X" and "I declare that you are wrong and it is not a game"

the latter is what you said

[stone current]

if there was like GTA or FC or BeamNG or Forza or etc in realistic VR that would be really cool

[tacit plank]

It has games in it, and various game aspects

You could say that some of it is a game, and some of it is like a hub

[prisma plover]

This won't stop...

[lapis nebula]

Shall we discuss politics or religion then ??? J/K

[tiny ginkgo]

I wish I was still in university, we could have gotten a good debate out of this

[prisma plover]

We are doomed.

[tiny ginkgo]

Problem here is it's like a firefight, everyone shooting whatever everywhere

[stone current]

realistic as in u can like turn the wheel and gear shifting and take out mag and etc

[errant vault]

I intend to make ai games once udon is released

[tiny ginkgo]

I love it

[prisma plover]

Quick, to the emergency bunker.

[tacit plank]

It's dumb to argue definitions though

[stone current]

i can make a box that jumps thats a game

[lapis nebula]

Nothing better than a good mass debate, but, too much mass debating can make you go blind

[stone current]

cough cough geometry dash

[tacit plank]

We all know what VRChat is, it doesn't matter how it matches the definition of game which you find in your local dictionary or not

[prisma plover]

VRChat is an awesome VR whatever-it-is.

[tacit plank]

You've likely played more games than whoever made that definition, anyways

[queen mango]

@prisma plover Online social multimedia platform?

[tacit plank]

Trust yourself a little

[prisma plover]

@queen mango shhh, don't tell that. They will bite you !

[queen mango]

Oh really?

[tacit plank]

Even if you manage to define it well, VRchat is constantly changing

[errant vault]

Udon is Endgame

[vocal shard]

its not really changing

[tiny ginkgo]

It's um.. morphing slightly right, but what has changed dramatically?

[tacit plank]

Custom scripting, message system, maybe build-in pens, they will all change the game a little

[errant vault]

The loading screen

[prisma plover]

Improvements I guess.

[tacit plank]

You can almost make games in shaders already

[prisma plover]

Doom in VRChat. 🤔

[errant vault]

Eternal

[tacit plank]

You can compete in getting the most popular worlds, etc

[tiny ginkgo]

There's the Dead Space world

[languid beacon]

Yeah just please. VRChat is my favorite game. Please don’t do the Second Life thing and be all “it’s not a game reeeeee” becasue that makes people think it’s cringy 😛 I don’t want vrc to become SL

[vocal shard]

but vrc is second life

[languid beacon]

Shhhhhh

[prisma plover]

Oh god they are enterally different. Especially on the way they handle avatars and worlds.

[tiny ginkgo]

SL always irked me for some reason.. I don't know why

[errant vault]

I just want to publish a team shooting world with friendly ai already

It needs udon

[floral aspen]

udon will come eventually

[errant vault]

I already have a mock up level set up using playmaker. Watching bots trying to capture the center of the map

[stone current]

inb4 vrchat adds its own scripting language like WoW or SL

[errant vault]

Still optimizing detection though

[vocal shard]

inb4 VRChat becomes Skyrim

Forced to sit through Skyrim intro every boot

[prisma plover]

Oh plz no. I don't want to be ejected to space for walking on a crate.

[languid beacon]

Thing is to most people SL is lame/old/cringy/creepy and VRC is the hot shit but you need to be careful with images because it’s very easy for perceptions to shift like that especially if a game is considered a fad that is now over you really want to avoid that

[tiny ginkgo]

Imagine the entire Skyrim game as a world

ram death intensifies

[stone current]

is it bad if i thought the intro videos that play before fallout loads were more entertaining than the game itself..? (without mods)

[vocal shard]

"Hey you, you're finally awake. You were trying to cross the border, right? Walked into that Imperial ambush. Same as us, and that theif over there."

[tiny ginkgo]

triggered

[stone current]

the intro to far cry 4 gives me skyrim flashbacks

[prisma plover]

Then the horse carriage starts spinning wildly.

[tiny ginkgo]

At least you can finish the game then and there

Yes GB why does it do that?

[stone current]

ik but u have 2 wait

[errant vault]

Then I installed war mods for Skyrim

[stone current]

https://youtu.be/ZL0D7lILrxY?t=194

[errant vault]

Every 5 minutes of walking I see a battle up ahead

[tiny ginkgo]

I love playing Skyrim on "hardcore" with the random start mod

[prisma plover]

@tiny ginkgo It often happens (the horse carriage thing) mostly because the starting sequence of Skyrim is very "fragile". Like it doesn't take much to make it break entirely.

[tiny ginkgo]

Ok so there's no 1 thing going on for it?

[rough pulsar]

I wonder if it's also related to how Skyrim's physics engine is rather linked to the framerate

[tiny ginkgo]

I read something about FPS being too hgih could break the game

[stone current]

nice pathfinding https://youtu.be/ZL0D7lILrxY?t=272

[vocal shard]

It is

[prisma plover]

Too high FPS does break the game often.

[vocal shard]

gamespeed is bound to fps

It is, that's the reason why Fallout 76 was bound to 60 FPS

Otherwise it woud break

[stone current]

cuz game engine fat

any1 wanna play vrcat with moi

[tiny ginkgo]

That's... A limitation I would probably have thought about earlier in development than AFTER 2 released games

[vocal shard]

Cuz Game Engine is a legacy engine that's been given a slight touch-up to call it "new"

[tiny ginkgo]

But hey what do I know

[stone current]

haha this is the best part

[vocal shard]

Like the engine Bethesda used for Skyrim, Fallout 4, and Fallout 76 uses many of the same libraries that Morrowind did

[stone current]

https://youtu.be/ZL0D7lILrxY?t=315 look lmao

[errant vault]

It's the end of the line

[vocal shard]

It's a legacy engine, and one that's aged really really badly

[tiny ginkgo]

Fair enough then

[vocal shard]

lmao so close

[stone current]

denied

[prisma plover]

It's, by design, glitchy. 😆

[stone current]

then flung into sky

[tiny ginkgo]

lmao

[prisma plover]

"It's a feature !" - Todd Howard.

[tiny ginkgo]

And you thought "fucking yes I finally got through this shit"

denied

[stone current]

3 minutes of flying thru the sky

[tiny ginkgo]

The related video called "7 Glitches That Became Beloved Features"

I hope this cart is in that video

[stone current]

has any1 seen this before https://i.gyazo.com/207c37b5d20d0898b4a072b85f2286a6.png

[tiny ginkgo]

Because It's all I ever get from Skyrim now

[errant vault]

Do you get to the Cloud District very often? Oh, what am I saying, of course you don't.

[vocal shard]

@stone current yes been a couple months tho

[stone current]

omg i am sad now

[errant vault]

You can get to the Cloud District via Giant

[prisma plover]

Maybe they have an explanation for the giants sending you to space by hitting you with their club in one of the numerous lore books ?

[stone current]

instead of typing 'does it even count' i had a typo aa aaaa

i forgot to put the o lol

[languid beacon]

You know the story of how Nintendo singlehandedly resurrected the home console market by bundling their NES with the ROB toy so they could sell it as a robot toy instead of a game console and parents would buy it? The kids knew what it really was. This is the same. Don’t want people realize VRC is just SL with a fresh coat of paint. 😉 so shhhhhh. People no likely SL.

[errant vault]

does it even cnt

[stone current]

wow did u realize nintendo revived everything with their BYO cardboard VR and piano and whatever

[prisma plover]

SL: You can edit avatars straight "in-world"
VRChat: You can't.

SL: Huge "in-world" market selling over 6000000 assets with actual real currency.
VRChat: No market at all.

SL: 18+ Adult-only
VRChat: 13 years old to gain access.

In a way, SL and VRChat are very different with very different audience.

[stone current]

not 18+

[prisma plover]

Both are good in their own ways I guess 🤷

[stone current]

its actually like 16+ but there are 18+ worlds

[umbral reef]

No market with VRC? Not a direct one yea- But a big off game market

[prisma plover]

16+ but cannot access anything rated more than General

[stone current]

yea

[tacit plank]

SL is expensive

[errant vault]

Black Market

[tacit plank]

I've landed on their market place a few times by accident

[amber horizon]

I know it's quite obvious, but how on pc I can use camera, or any other things that avatar have?

[prisma plover]

SL can be expensive if you don't know how to 3D model or make your own stuff I guess.

[stone current]

u can work jobs and own virtual property in SL

[tacit plank]

like 500$ per model. I tried searching for "free" and found pupils at like 50$ each

[peak arch]

hello, i'm new, sorry if i'm bothersome 😅

[stone current]

i bought a wolf thing for $13 i think

when i used 2 play SL

[tacit plank]

It's not even VR, is it?
Welcome Steph

[prisma plover]

@tacit plank Hmm dude... that's probably 500 L$, not 500 USD

[stone current]

but that all i bought

[prisma plover]

500 L$ is like... a dollar.

[errant vault]

It's a good thing I can make my own content

[stone current]

and no its not its already extremely god dam intolerably laggy on desktop

[peak arch]

thanks, @tacit plank

[umbral reef]

@amber horizon Camera is a Vr only thing so far i know

[tacit plank]

Oh, so it is

[amber horizon]

Oh

[tacit plank]

It makes a lot more sense now¨

[prisma plover]

Most avatar makers on SL make their money by selling super cheap but in large quantities.

[stone current]

na

they make it by having worlds full of customizable avatars

[peak arch]

well, if any of you wanna hang in vrchat with me, lemme know

[stone current]

that u can pay for while in the game

me me

again u can also work virtual jobs and own virtual property

theres even places u can rent from world owners that have rented the space

[prisma plover]

Utilizator's Kemono is like... 900 L$. Which is like 1.50 $ or something. He probably sold thousand of them already.

[errant vault]

Did you get paid in peanuts

[stone current]

SL getting boring now tho

[prisma plover]

Yeah

[stone current]

so i stopped playing

it used 2 be full of ppl talking and doing stuff together

[prisma plover]

The golden age of SL is long gone. That "job market" doesn't exist anymore.

[stone current]

but now all i see is empty rooms and people working

[amber horizon]

What is SL?

[stone current]

tbh its easy to make a living there

[prisma plover]

@amber horizon Second Life

[stone current]

just go to a strip club and click the pole dance animation button

get paid for being AFK

[prisma plover]

Paid 10 cents a day, yeah

[stone current]

i used 2 do that a lot lmao

not 10 cents

its less than minimum wage but enough to get decent characters and items

[vocal shard]

played SL once when i was like 14 didnt last long before i got bored of it

[peak arch]

@stone current dm me if you wanna hang so that i know either where to go or where to meet you, if you want 😇

see y'all later

[stone current]

just add moi

[peak arch]

on discord or in game?

[stone current]

both idk

the name is the same

[floral aspen]

I think VRChat will get some sort of market place eventually. The devs have stated they want to add spawnable props that are part of an avatars inventory, and a natural extension of that would be a marketplace where you can buy more stuff to put on your avatar

[peak arch]

mmkay

[stone current]

yea but like

the thing about marketplaces is

[vocal shard]

they need some sort of monetization eventually so yea

[stone current]

it kinda changes the whole game

cuz rn its just a social hangout where u can be what u want

throw a marketplace onto it and now its a social hangout where u pay for good avatars

[floral aspen]

how so? People already commission other people to make avatars/animations/props for them. This just gives them a way to do it directly in game

[prisma plover]

If you make so 3D artists get paid for making a model, that might increase the quality of the stuff. Like "Oh, I can get a little something for the 46 hours of work I put on this avatar !"

[stone current]

yes but comissioning happens outside of vrchat

[floral aspen]

and?

[stone current]

putting it into vrchat is different

[floral aspen]

how?

[stone current]

bc ur no longer selling models to one person ur selling it to multiple people

kinda like patreon supporter rewards but on a greater level

[floral aspen]

so? What's the big deal?

[stone current]

again its changing what the game is

[prisma plover]

It's okay. The author gets paid many times.

[stone current]

thats my point

[covert linden]

Linking payment methods would be skettchy

[floral aspen]

How is it changing what the game is? It's still a social space where you hang out with friends

[stone current]

also that

yes but u dont seem to understand

[prisma plover]

Then the author generates money and that stimulates them to make even more decent avatars.

That aren't stolen MMDs.

[vocal shard]

what they could easily monetize is having a premium acc with more avatars/worlds to favorite/upload etc

[stone current]

with a marketplace they also have to add a lot of security and make sure they have a good standing to be transferring money

[covert linden]

^

[floral aspen]

What am I not understanding? It's just taking something that already happens right now, and gives avatar creators a way to do it in game instead of logging in to someone else's account or sending them a unity package

[stone current]

and also they will have to work with authors and claims of stealing monetized work

[covert linden]

Ird be way too hard. Like the webpannels

[vocal shard]

and their network doesnt really seem to be the best so it will prolly take a while before that happens

[stone current]

they can potentially get sued over assets sold being ripped from vrchat themselves

[languid beacon]

The biggest difference is while SL does contain voice chat it is wildly considered by oldbies to be the worst feature update in the history of it it’s lifetime and many refuse to turn it on. SL is all text and it sucks. Most people don’t even talk in global they just stand next to each other in IM windows. It’s barely “social” at all. It’s a product of its time really and the people that still use it after all these years tend to be very old fashioned or take the whole “second life” idea seriously and are just all RP all the time and never break character. It’s a weird place.

VRC being voice only is a blessing

[prisma plover]

SL has voice chat, my dude.

[floral aspen]

It would have to be a curated marketplace so people can't sell copyrighted assets

[languid beacon]

Read second line GB

[floral aspen]

I would have though that much would be obvious

[stone current]

already they are at risk of this but any security issues would further increase impact

and thats not what im saying

[prisma plover]

Then you weren't hanging at the right places.

[stone current]

also i would rather have the files to an avatar than just the avatar

but obv the problem with that is leaking

[prisma plover]

Also we are talking like... totally different audience. Maybe that audience actually prefers text chat. Especially older folks.

[errant vault]

In game text chatting

[languid beacon]

I hung in the few voice places still ditching the stinking ship for VRC and never looking back has been so freeing. Learned more blender since may than I have in over a decade of making content for SL. The only thing I miss is custom scripting.

[stone current]

well usually being mute is a choice not an issue

[floral aspen]

You're going to have to assume stuff is going to get leaked/pirated. It happens on the Unity store so it's going to happen in a hypothetical VRChat marketplace too

[stone current]

yea ik that

[opaque hawk]

Please already leaking every whitelisted paid script from the unity store

[prisma plover]

@languid beacon Yeah I miss the capabilities of LSL.

[languid beacon]

I meant to say “sinking ship” but I’m not editing my message

[stone current]

yea no id go back and play SL

if (1) game was less laggy (2) it was back to the way it was 2-3 years ago

[prisma plover]

I sometimes go back there. To say a little hi to people. But VR kinda made me abandon SL.

[stone current]

im on a gaming laptop and no matter what graphics settings i use i cannot get the game anywhere above 40 fps

[prisma plover]

@stone current Especially at "that one club" wink wink

[languid beacon]

Just give me udon so I can start making stuff again lol

[stone current]

wat server

[errant vault]

Would you put ai in it?

[stone current]

wat

[prisma plover]

@errant vault If you mean SL servers, 47596 users online.

If you mean VRChat servers...

!online

[floral flax]

There are 6361 users in VRChat currently

[errant vault]

Oh, actually I was on wrong channel

[vocal shard]

Is there some hack going on that allows you to disconnect someone from an instance?

[languid beacon]

Not sure where you got that number GB, LL has refused to make their concurrent numbers public for years now

[stone current]

yea but the SL world is gigantic

[prisma plover]

Firestorm viewer.

[stone current]

how SL works is u rent a plot of land at some given empty coordinates

[languid beacon]

That’s like judging the internet users by those who use Firefox

[stone current]

and those coordinates are a part of the entirety of the SL world

[prisma plover]

On the login screen, it shows the user count online.

[languid beacon]

😛

[stone current]

so when u go looking for worlds

it shows u this huge top-down map

with pictures of every world side by side at whatever coordinates

heres what it looks like

https://maps.secondlife.com/

[errant vault]

I've seen that type of mechanic in other server hosted games

[stone current]

u can navigate on the page

[prisma plover]

I just wish some avatar makers from SL could move to VRChat. I would even buy their stuff again to use it in VRChat.

[stone current]

https://i.gyazo.com/602b16359e78131dc7c2441ec1489f11.png

[prisma plover]

Speaking of the SL map, there's a new continent in dev too.

[languid beacon]

It would be nice. Most SLers don’t like VRChat though. It’s just “the place that keeps stealing my models”

[prisma plover]

Add a marketplace to VRChat, and suddenly massive exile from SL to VRC. 😅

[vocal shard]

I have come for your pickles

[languid beacon]

I’m not sure if monitizing vrc is a good thing

It’s a very polarizing topic to put it the safest

[rigid crescent]

Makes sense as long as it's not copyright content. I don't really see any issues with it

[stone current]

well its gonna kinda start turning vrchat into everything else

[errant vault]

He stole my generic common looking avatar! It's the end of the world!

[languid beacon]

Yeah but the ability to sell copyrighted content you don’t own puts very legal consequences in place for the developers

[queen mango]

I dunno.. on one hand, it would provide the team with a stead inflow of profit. On the other hand, there's gonna be a LOT of issues with monetizing an IP which has several models ripped from other games

[stone current]

its kinda already unique in itself that it doesnt have a marketplace or currency

[rigid crescent]

" as long as it's not copyright content"

[stone current]

as opposed to literally everything else (SL, HF, TU, SS...)

[queen mango]

and Rec Room

[vocal shard]

the game couldnt even handle a marketplace / currency rn

[stone current]

yea but doesnt rec room not have full and user-made customization

[languid beacon]

You can make money with VRChat. Just sell your stuff externally and buy and sell actual assets or licenses for use in vrc.

[rigid crescent]

If I remember correctly there's already tos things in place to support monetization

[prisma plover]

Maybe the money would go mostly to the author of the avatar, but VRChat could take a small tax on the sale.

[rigid crescent]

So its reslly not out if the question.

[stone current]

yea but the money wont be worth anything unless the virtual currency has an exchange rate

or people buy the virtual currency to be able to purchase assets

[vocal shard]

monetization will happen eventually, game wont be completely free forever, should be pr obvious to everyone

[stone current]

but yea again the fact that it doesnt have a marketplace makes it kinda stand out

[prisma plover]

Meh... just make so I can by some decent avatars for 2 bucks. No weird currency, just ask USD. And VRChat takes like 15% of that.

[errant vault]

Imagine seeing a price tag on the avatars of avatar worlds

[stone current]

lol ikr

[prisma plover]

All of that in-game and certified by VRChat itself, no shady under-the-table trade.

[rigid crescent]

That would already happen if it wasn't against the rules.

[stone current]

it would have been done with web panels

[errant vault]

To use this avatar, you must purchase it

[stone current]

u could add a button that opens up a paypal or something

and then u unlock the avatar

[prisma plover]

Or have a way to add money to your "wallet" ingame

[rigid crescent]

Simply make a shop for actual creators who make their own content and want to sell them, similar to what boothpm is.

[prisma plover]

@rigid crescent Yeah, maybe a dedicated section of the VRChat website.

[vocal shard]

or you go full grey area and "donate" to the game and receive some kind of currency wich you can use to unlock certain things

[stone current]

theres patreon and DA and FA and etc

[vocal shard]

Is anyone else getting a wierd logging in loop?

[rigid crescent]

Everyone basically.

Throw the word "loop" into the discord search bar.

[errant vault]

Loopster

[prisma plover]

Part of the problem with buying avatars on DA or Patreon is that the artists ask stuff like... 500 $ for an avatar. Because they sell those as if they were unique things.

[vocal shard]

Well that kinda sucks, but at least I'll eventually get to play I guess 👌

[errant vault]

Or you could just make one yourself

[stone current]

ye

[languid beacon]

If you couldn’t use avatars for free I imagine most people would bail if it were filled with “microtransactions” it’s really perceived not well right now

[stone current]

u can replace money with time and effort

but its not 4 everyone

[errant vault]

And saaave a lot of dollars

[floral aspen]

People are lazy Levian. Making your own avatar takes work

[prisma plover]

While on a marketplace like SL, those things are sold as like... your carton of milk at the grocery store. It cost 2 bucks, and there's an infinite supply (well maybe not the milk, but still). So the creator actually generates as much cash as selling just one unique copy.

[stone current]

its not just being lazy

[floral aspen]

and some people just straight up don't want to learn

[stone current]

its the fact that u gotta learn 2 do all that stuff

i still learning how 2 model and it a pain

[errant vault]

Yup

[floral aspen]

Nothing wrong with that. People are free to do with their money what they wish

[languid beacon]

Look people use vrc because it’s free. Ask around. I tell people I paid 100$ for my avatar comission and I get a lot of “I don’t like that. I’m against paying for models”

[errant vault]

You need concept art of your model, sculpt or hand make your model, uv map your model, paint your model, etc

[prisma plover]

Well when you want something truly unique that isn't a stolen MMD, it comes at a price.

[floral aspen]

that's only if it's 100% original though

[languid beacon]

Yeah well mine was

[stone current]

like this is the only modelling ive done that actually looks decent https://i.gyazo.com/478cd3c106672672c8793351eb1452f4.png

[errant vault]

My pfp is my model

[tiny ginkgo]

Why would anyone be against paying for models

Like, what is the argument here?

[errant vault]

My favorite part was painting in 3D coat

[prisma plover]

Now I gonna blow your mind: What if VRChat had... a character customization /editor ?

[errant vault]

Eh, I wouldn't use it

[stone current]

https://youtu.be/mNvtZCboy7w?t=31

[errant vault]

Others would

[prisma plover]

Maybe VRChat could make money by making such a thing ? Like an actual easy to use editor. People like ease of use.

[tiny ginkgo]

Modeling, Rigging, Texturing... All of that is a huuuuge business.. Why would it not be a market here where people want to express themselves?

[errant vault]

Eventually Udon

[languid beacon]

I’ve done both. I’ve spent a total of 200 on avatar work. 100 for a entirely from-scratch original avatar; and another for a model from a game that required heavy retooling and recreation and re-weighting. I have no problem paying people for their time .. regardless of what they are making

[errant vault]

Gonna make me an ai map

[frozen trout]

I actually thought of a new way to touch boobs now @rigid crescent but it'll be scuff i think

[prisma plover]

A new achievement in modern technology: Touchable bewbs.

[errant vault]

Is my Udon ready yet? I'm hungry

[floral aspen]

unless theres been an announcement assume its not ready

[viscid seal]

don't expect that for a while

they're focus was mainly on 2017 update up until now

but hopefully the devs will share some details with everyone soon on how udon is shaping up

[lethal summit]

for some reason the game started to download the maps for every map ive been used to play on..

and yes...i didnt cleaned up the cache...

[zinc solar]

Some people act so smug when their opinion is wrong.

[stone current]

o rly

d0gs r man best frend

[lapis nebula]

I know, I’ve dated a few

[queen mango]

[lapis nebula]

Oops, did i say that out loud, ahem

[zinc solar]

I was trying to explain to someone about their avatars effects lagging the map too much but then they start acting high and mighty as if their avatar was made by the VRC Team themselves, and added some petty insults into the mix.

[vocal shard]

Ah.. lol
Like "my avatar is a real avatar with talent put into it by a real avatar maker..." And stuff like that?

[zinc solar]

She kept using this massive particle effect that covered the entire map into some kind of temple room, and had snowfall with like 10 models dancing.

Yeah

Sooo many people get defensive over their avatar as if it's their actual person.

[vocal shard]

Ah... Lol
"talent"

[zinc solar]

Hence why I REFUSE to use any "attractive" avatar. Not here to bust a VRNut, or dedicate my life keeping a VR relationship.

Plus effects are annoying as hell, people spend hours just to get a 3 second "wow" from others

[lapis nebula]

My avatar is anything but “attractive”

[rough pulsar]

@lapis nebula Yes it is, gravity is an attractive force. :B

[vocal shard]

O.o

[lapis nebula]

Lol

[umbral reef]

@zinc solar next time just bullshityou are a game dev for VR games yourself and worked on fixing engine problems so your an expert on the topic

Not like anyone who makes claims like "Devs made this" would actually know how dev stuff works

[lapis nebula]

It’s not gravity, it’s being a fat lazy lard ass

[queen mango]

It's weighing down on you

[zinc solar]

I didn't say they claimed the devs made it, I said they acted as if their avatar was made by the devs

[queen mango]

All that mass being affected by gravity

[lapis nebula]

I’ll go live in space then

[umbral reef]

Oww

[vocal shard]

Was it one of those fate avatars? I think one of them did have a temple or something

[lapis nebula]

Besides, I’m so fat, my stomach creates it’s own gravitational pull

[stone current]

im so fluffy that i prob got 2 lb floof

[lapis nebula]

Only thing fluffy on me is the lint in my belly button

[neon flume]

#feature-requests accurate orbital mechanics when

[willow dragon]

So you tag the correct channel and still put your message in the wrong channel, wut

[neon flume]

is only joke 🙃

[willow dragon]

I see

[prisma plover]

I have no artistic capabilities or money, so I just port MMDs to VRChat or use already existing avatars. 🤷

[languid beacon]

Serious though I would love stations that you can still walk around / jump in, for a sort of local gravity/movement space

[prisma plover]

Or just being able to fly already. 😅

[languid beacon]

As long as maps opt into it

[neon flume]

Something like the Lone Echo movement system would be amazing to see with user created maps but it's probably not feasible for VRChat without a lot of effort on the part of the devs.

[languid beacon]

I wanna do some non-ecludian style spaces so using stations for fake gravity would be amazing

You can sit someone on a station without OnInteract right

Yeah you can group mmd dances do it

[prisma plover]

Walk upside down on the ceiling 🤔

[languid beacon]

Yeah

The problem is right now as soon as you fake walk you stand up

Would be nice to be able to stay constrained to the reference point of that game object

Would be good for horizontally sliding platforms too

Make the avatars child of the platform while it moves

Ideally to them it would look like the platform is stationary

And the world is moving

[rough pulsar]

I think there was a feature request for something like that, a way to parent users to a moving object so they could continue to move around normally on that object while it moved, then 'disconnect' from it when they leave it.

[languid beacon]

Yeah that’s basically what stations are though just not as fully featured

[rough pulsar]

The key difference was there's no change in your movement ability or controls, just that you are parented to a moving object in the scene.

[languid beacon]

And I don’t think the ik system is aware of their new reference point

[stone current]

how much should i sell a simple rigged model for

$40?

[languid beacon]

A from scratch model?

[stone current]

based on a sketch but pretty cute

[languid beacon]

It would depend on the license

[stone current]

https://i.gyazo.com/8748257ae0123f91983e2062fd25a023.png

do whatever u want with it idc but no leaking

[languid beacon]

Is it theirs forever or can you sell it to multiple people

Do they want exclusivity

These things change the price

[stone current]

ik

i just wanna sell it for people to use idc wat they do with it

just not leak

[languid beacon]

Then look at the unity store and base it on that

Better yet, sell it on the unity asset store 😉

[vocal shard]

you shouldnt expect it not to leak

[languid beacon]

My opinion of priacy is it is not lost sales. Anyone who uses stolen content was never going to give you money anyway. It’s just free advertisement for honest people.

[vocal shard]

thats exactly what it is
plus you can't stop it anyway

[stone current]

i dont want it to stop

[languid beacon]

It doesn’t bother me when people take my stuff

[stone current]

i just dont want it to be like this:

[languid beacon]

I’ll glad it’s worth using lol

[stone current]

someone takes it, shares with hundreds, and now everyone is using it and i only have 1 purchase on the list

whats an editorial license

nvm

i think ima get my own CC license

cuz cgtrader doesnt have CC for some reason

[vocal shard]

MIT license best license

[languid beacon]

Then again I don’t depend on it to pay my bills

[stone current]

aka i legally own the content cuz i produced it

and all buyers also legally own it

but people who got it for free are infringing copyright

[languid beacon]

I always released my code under WTFPL. It’s a good license.

[stone current]

https://i.gyazo.com/6b694752604c7524df5cad1e155b381f.png

[neon flume]

This is the first time I've heard of WTFPL, that's such a great license

[stone current]

lmao

how do u establish the license tho do u just write the type of copyright and boom u legally own it

[languid beacon]

You own it just by making it. The license makes it clear what other people are permitted to do with what you own

[stone current]

kk

but it appears that the 'royalty free' license they offer already does that

so ima just use that then

[languid beacon]

There’s nothing you have to do except include the license where people can find it

[stone current]

do i just paste this

This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/.

[languid beacon]

There’s also nothing special about the text you can write your own if you want it’s just better to use known legally clear wording

Yup you are good

[stone current]

ok i put it on there and is there a way to link it to paypal

[languid beacon]

Probably don’t advertise here :p

[small wing]

So i keep logging in to find a bunch of people trying to add me that of which i have never met in game or anywhere else. What do i do?

[neon flume]

Are you sure you want creative commons? I thought you didn't want distribution of the model?

[small wing]

I asked this here before but nobody seems to take this seriously

[vocal shard]

prolly in a youtube video or something just decline them

[queen mango]

@small wing You could try ignoring them

[covert linden]

^

[queen mango]

And just add those whom you have talked to

[vocal shard]

or you can add them and find out

[small wing]

But then my list just gets full of the spam requests.

i already lag out when showing offline users

[queen mango]

[vocal shard]

you can do it on the website

[neon flume]

How many requests are you getting in a day?

[small wing]

around 5

from people that i never met specifically

[covert linden]

Must have a common username

[neon flume]

Oh that's not all that many. Is it the same people each time?

[small wing]

Rollthered isnt a common username

i searched that up to make sure in game

and its new people each time

[covert linden]

Could be a youtube video or if people have avatars you made theyre trying to befriend u becsuze of it

[small wing]

sometimes i get a repeated request but thats where i get peeved out and block the person.

[covert linden]

Tbh id accept one or two and jooin them and ask

[neon flume]

If you've made a world it's possible they're adding you from there.

[small wing]

I would do that, but what are the chances they could be malicious?

[vocal shard]

Hmm...what if we could send a message with friend requests.. "hey, it's ....."

[small wing]

if only the canny wasn't a joke

[covert linden]

People would say weird stuff

[small wing]

"i added you because i saw you across the room in the pug" = instant block

creeeeeeeeeep

[vocal shard]

Lol

[languid beacon]

Now that public avatars can go viral, some people are looking up authors and friending them to try and peg them in person to ask for a uploadable copy

[small wing]

totally serious when i say i had this happen at least 5 times

makes me uncomfortable af

[vocal shard]

thats not too weird, its just people being awkward and not knowing how to make friends

[neon flume]

It's a little weird when people add me without interacting at all but I wouldn't block them 😅

[small wing]

I block them because i cant handle the awkwardness.

[vocal shard]

to each their own

[queen mango]

👀

[neon flume]

I usually play with the UI off so I don't see their requests until the next time I log in anyways.

[lean wharf]

I got a question as this is my test bench will it run vr on a oculus/vive?

[small wing]

I assume that would also imply having to minimize the friend request tab also?

[vocal shard]

@lean wharf whats your specs?

[lean wharf]

i7-2600 RX 570 2x8gb 1333mhz ddr3

[vocal shard]

yes

[lean wharf]

Oh nice

[vocal shard]

it will run it, but youre on the lower end

[small wing]

yeah, but i suggest upgrading the gpu if you want higher resolution.

[lean wharf]

Nah

[small wing]

you might have to lower the sampling a lot

[lean wharf]

I'm just curious

[vocal shard]

also steam has like vr ready benchmark thingy

[lean wharf]

Yep but the test bench awaits the 650w psu

So e

[vocal shard]

Run vrchat on the desktoplow present too

[lean wharf]

I got myself a high end pc @vocal shard

So I am curious o this smol buddy

[small wing]

You say its a test bench, what for?

[lean wharf]

I can post a pic of my pc in puctures

For work and school

I'm in a IT class in college

[languid beacon]

I don’t consider friend requests actual friends. It’s more like a contact to me. Especially since there’s no other way to make first contact besides accidentally meeting in vr in the same world. So I have zero problem with random friend requests. I have a separate list for “actual” friends

[lean wharf]

@small wing check #polish

[small wing]

I dont speak polish.

if you said anything in there i'm not going to understand it

[lean wharf]

@small wing nevermind

I'll send you on dm

[languid beacon]

(If someone blocks me for a blind friend request they did me a favor)

[small wing]

I have dm disabled because i run a server

too much spam botting

[lean wharf]

Oh

Shit then where to post

Oh right vrchat pictures

I'll send and delete

[small wing]

post it in #general-media

[lean wharf]

Oh

[stone current]

there i tossed it into self promo lol

[vocal shard]

should add more pics and a description

[stone current]

idk wat to put as description

that all it is lmao

[alpine crater]

HAPPENING

VR here I come

[tame ore]

I have it in unity and rigged with the vrchat sdk, I don't know how to actually upload it though

[hearty chasm]

Could a dev give me a status on this suggestion?
https://vrchat.canny.io/feature-requests/p/personal-notes-for-users

I would love it as a feature

[rigid crescent]

it's not even marked "in progress" if that helps at all

[hearty chasm]

I just wanted to post it as a reminder for them :P

[ruby burrow]

I use a notepad on my desktop for the same purpose, but frequently forget to update it at the end of a long session.

[hearty chasm]

Yeah, I dont want to break immersion every time I add someone

[ruby burrow]

It's missing a lot of people now. And is harder to check whilst in game.

[zinc solar]

I want to know what love is!!!
I don't want Vrchat to show me!!

[ruby burrow]

You do? You don't? ._.

[vocal shard]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA MY WHOLE FRIENDS LIST IS GONE

[ruby burrow]

VR-Chat is where I get all my love. It's hard to return enough sometimes.

[vocal shard]

The head pats, and the hugs

[long venture]

heya hows everyone doing

[stone current]

[long venture]

[queen mango]

Doing alrighty

Not much going on tho

[long venture]

Glad you're doing alright

[zinc solar]

[sleek bone]

/

[peak arch]

hope everyone had a good day

lol sorry, k bye

[vocal shard]

Hey, you gotta wait more than 2 minutes for someone to reply

[prisma plover]

It's night time in the west too.

[vocal shard]

It's like 8:18PM here on the West Coast

[analog osprey]

its 9 where im at

[trim trellis]

Same here, west coast

[sleek bone]

wat

[queen mango]

It's 12:35 PM over here

In Asia

[frail flare]

whosever idea it was to switch to a different unity needs to be fired ASAP

Can't use muscle animation, then its stuck in animation window and wont even go back to project TAB

LIKE COME ON

[sullen escarp]

lolwut it needed to get updated eventually

[summer fable]

Hi everyone

How’re things going? ^_^

[frail flare]

no, the last one was fine, i never had these issues, could make animations, do anything I needed to do. use muscle animator, but now, nope.

[summer fable]

Really?

I can use it just fine

[sullen escarp]

it wasn't fine, the old version wasn't even on long term support

[summer fable]

Hey, mindfraktur, you might be using an older version of muscle animator

[languid beacon]

uses Blender and tries to use Unity controls but finally gets the hang of it just long enough to be done with it to switch to Unity and try to use Blender controls

[summer fable]

That’s probably why you’re having issues

[frail flare]

its not letting me switch back to the project tab

it keeps switching to animation tab

[summer fable]

Are you.... clicking Ctrl 6 to open up a separate animation window?

[sullen escarp]

@languid beacon i know the pain, i have to switch back and forth between unity, blender, and substance

[long venture]

you need to update your muscle animator

[sullen escarp]

all using different controls

[summer fable]

Yep

[frail flare]

got a link to the new one?

[sullen escarp]

it's on the asset store

[summer fable]

Update it. Go into the actual project file, delete the muscle animation folder, the plugins folder, and the plugins.meta file and muscle animator.meta if there is one

[sullen escarp]

unless you pirated the old one ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[summer fable]

Delete them, then re-download the muscle animation editor

And if you pirated the editor....

I can’t help you there

[long venture]

[summer fable]

[long venture]

sounds like the latter

[vocal shard]

Oof

[wispy kayak]

Anyone know what an old time member's Trust Status is in the new system (or at least new to me)? Do you start fresh, do they track past variables? I wanted to use my old avatar since I worked really hard on it, was hoping that's still possible.

[long venture]

I'm not sure if I get what you mean

[wispy kayak]

(realized it might be a better question for the help chat, so I posted this there as well.) From what I understand, you can't upload content unless you are a certain trust level (like new avatars)

[zinc solar]

Sup scrubs

[dark narwhal]

hiya buddy uwu

[zinc solar]

Ey, don't call me buddy guy

[covert linden]

Dont bully him... that hurts uwu

[queen mango]

[dark narwhal]

dont call me guy pal

[zinc solar]

I'm not your pal, fweind

[dark narwhal]

Im not your friend babe

[zinc solar]

Not your babe, buddy

[dark narwhal]

thx buddy

[zinc solar]

I'm not your buddy, guy

[stone current]

[dark narwhal]

im not you r guy "insert reference to Vr Chat to appease Ruuubick"

[stone current]

vrcat says u a loli

[covert linden]

THE LOUUNGE PANTSSS

[vocal shard]

What's the bickering

[queen mango]

VRCat?

[dark narwhal]

rip

[zinc solar]

Bout to go on a VRDate, get some VRFood, then take her to a VRMotel, and get VRDeep then bust that VRNut. After that I'll reevaluate my VRLife, and kermit VRSewer side

[night lark]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/242067205884346369/533156006293667840/isabelle.gif

i will work on animal crossing world

[stone current]

more like animal posessing

[tranquil vapor]

is anyone else getting red avis and photo navailablle?

[stone current]

re upload them

[tranquil vapor]

like its everyone

[stone current]

oh

[tranquil vapor]

not just my avis

[stone current]

might be a connection issue

[tranquil vapor]

ope i fixed it i think

i think a file got corrupted

[stone current]

o

[lime wyvern]

Does anyone know what the yellow speech bubble with an exclamation mark means? https://i.imgur.com/6U965H5.png

[stone current]

its a message

some unfinished API u can use to send people messages

[covert linden]

Woh

[stone current]

exploiters or just trolls like to use it to mass message random people

if u check the menu it shows up as text, shows the sender, and accept/decline (both do nothing)

[lime wyvern]

Ah, I see! Thank you so much for the response! 😊

[stone current]

i seen it before and was also confused but ye

[velvet quarry]

If it's from an old screenshot, that used to be the icon for every type of notification (Invites, votekicks etc), the current icons are a relatively new addition.

I believe that deprecated messaging API is the only thing left that uses it, though I could be wrong.

[stone current]

it is

[loud sun]

Yeet?

[thick skiff]

why do people instantly block if you go up to them and have a conversation

like i dont get it

[languid beacon]

is there an API tool to show you your entire friends list, along with any categories you put them in? in-game menu is bugged and i need to get a real list i can depend on

[subtle prawn]

That's the vrchat life. Free blocks for everyone

[rigid crescent]

annoyong mic/avatar/voice

[zinc solar]

Heya Mic!

My rival

Nah, we are usually in a disagreement with each other

[mighty galleon]

<.<

[twin jacinth]

,-,

[dark narwhal]

@_@

[vocal shard]

yEEEEEEE

[long venture]

[mighty galleon]

oh hi shana

been a long while

[long venture]

I guess so

[mighty galleon]

go check random cht

[long venture]

the hamster?

[mighty galleon]

yes

tats def the real like oclac

-pat shana-

[long venture]

[mighty galleon]

good shana

[long venture]

[mighty galleon]

:3

[long venture]

wacha up to

[mighty galleon]

nothing, just on deviantart seeing whats being posted and reply to people, other then that its watching youtube, you?

[long venture]

ahhh just going home from my second day at school

[mighty galleon]

oh? was it hard day?

[twin jacinth]

Shana
I saw you in the Nier world like a week ago i think

[long venture]

what was I doing there

oh nothing much just learning new things
swamp

[mighty galleon]

may i ask what you're giong to school for or is it highschool or something

[long venture]

it's like college I guess

[mighty galleon]

ohh ok

-pats-

good human, learnign and such

[long venture]

previously I was in media and design

So now I'm gonna try to get a cert in business

[mighty galleon]

oh? now that will be usefull with climbing the corprete ladders

[long venture]

actually I had no choice haha
design stuff my country dosent have jobs for it
so I had to switch

[mighty galleon]

ohhh ok

nessesity

[long venture]

so I have no knowledge In this current course xD
so I'm scared in a sense

[mighty galleon]

dont worry, you can do it! you're a smart shana

[long venture]

I hope so too

[tiny ginkgo]

Having no prior knowledge can be a good thing. It means you're humble and know you have to follow along and read up.

[mighty galleon]

-pats shana-

i'll support you with friendship shana

[long venture]

[novel crown]

anyone else disconnecting? i've disconnected twice in a very short amount of time and my internet has been stable

[hollow tendon]

can i get help regarding vive trackers?

[twin jacinth]

Write out your problem and someone might be able to help

[glossy wharf]

#full-body-tracking

[twin jacinth]

Oh yeah and^ is probably the best channel to write it in

[hollow tendon]

sorry i wasn't aware of that thanks

[zinc solar]

I'll track your full body

I'll be here all week

[coarse wyvern]

YoInK

[umbral reef]

Lewd

[median basalt]

Oh great, "expo" worlds are once again getting a free pass on their avatars being unoptimized

[vocal shard]

the eye of newt for community spotlight when

@median basalt huh?

quick rundown?

[median basalt]

There's an "expo" world that contains unoptimized avatars but it's being approved for public, because it's an expo world

[queen mango]

[median basalt]

The same thing happened a while back when the optimization limits were new, some korean expo map had an avatar with 10k dynamic bone transforms and it was approved

[queen mango]

These expo worlds again?

[median basalt]

Maybe I should turn my world into an "expo world" and upload the most unoptimized shit I want

[queen mango]

Ah, VEXCO 2018.. that one?

Since that one avatar there has 23,187 total dynbones

[vocal shard]

aaaah

that expo for the avatar sellers?

Elire you're being ironic right

@queen mango

[umbral reef]

Thats the best part
they are unoptimized and get sold
Both are not allowed for worlds...

[queen mango]

I really don't know..

[vocal shard]

why are loads of people getting banned for modified client

when we dont even have one

[twin jacinth]

So you got banned for it as well?
if you think you're banned unfairly you can always send them an mail and explain/prove your innocence

[vocal shard]

i did

they sent me the copy pasta

[umbral reef]

editing any game files counts as modified clients

Modded sdk technically also counts even

[twin jacinth]

^and
THey don't have a reason to ban you unless you are modified or by mistake but then sending a mail should help

[umbral reef]

And as any human being should know
Sending an email like "Hey- You fuck faces accuse me of this thing! I never did that! Unban me!"

Wont get you any help ....

[twin jacinth]

^^

[safe prism]

be nice in all things you do and you'll always get better results

[coarse wyvern]

Daed Si Ssim ro tih

Oh my name is literally Blank

I actually like that

Now it's not :p

[tiny ginkgo]

Kindness and good communication takes you a very long way.

But it goes both ways.

[median basalt]

If I can be entirely honest I'm always very skeptical of these claims

It's easy for humans to lie and say they never used any modded clients

"Anti crash clients" also count fyi

[tiny ginkgo]

Yes it can be difficult to trust the users because they have to trust their anticheat system

Otherwise what's the point of having one.

[queen mango]

I've been searching through the past comments in this Discord.. particularly some of those when chat was filled with some yellows and purples - (December 4, 2018)

Not gonna lie, it was good to see something like that happen for once

[median basalt]

Yeah, the devs tend to come in here in masses when something big is about to happen, or when it has happened

I correctly predicted the Oculus Store release that way

[stoic halo]

anti crash clients shouldn't be bannable tbh

[umbral reef]

Why not?

They are still moddified clients

[stoic halo]

with the fact of how rampant crashers are, we are putting a method to reduce how we get crashed

[umbral reef]

Who says they are not doing bad things in the background?
Or how can they be sure its not a bad moddified client?

[glossy wharf]

just know the difference lmao

[umbral reef]

Crashing as in?
Particle? Use particle limiter.
Shaders? disable shaders with the trust system?

[glossy wharf]

just know the difference

[umbral reef]

Logouts? Lmao nice meme- Fucking clients cant prevent that so nice try

[stoic halo]

shaders being turned off practically ruins avatars lol

the system against crashers is super flawed by itself

[glossy wharf]

Yeah what should they do, analyze compiled shaders?

thats not how it works.

[prisma plover]

Best VRChat time is private room time anyway. 😶

[tiny ginkgo]

I always find private rooms a bit, eh.. But I guess it depends on what you are there for. If it really is as bad as people say it is with crashers etc, I guess it's less fun to be in pubs

[glossy wharf]

Privates

[prisma plover]

Friend+ ?

[glossy wharf]

so public? lmao

[prisma plover]

Oh I see how it works 😅

[grave dagger]

Guess ive been lucky then. Been hopping around friends+ and a few publics and only gotten crashed twice in 2 months 😊

[shrewd glacier]

Im looking for somebody i know

i cant find him and i dont have any way to text him

[prisma plover]

Is that person at least in this Discord channel ?

[tiny ginkgo]

What's his nick?

[covert linden]

Is it @dark narwhal

[dark narwhal]

HMMMMM

[covert linden]

LOL

[dark narwhal]

oof

[ruby burrow]

I've been crashed very little lately. Only times I have, have been in the box far as I can recall.

[dark narwhal]

I avoid the box its just a bad place to be

[ruby burrow]

It's generally a rather pointless place to be. It saves you an incredibly negligible amount compared to hundreds of decent worlds on rendering the world itself, yet has zero culling planes to prevent you having to render every single avatar present.

[rigid crescent]

That's a good suggestion for the creator. They originally didn't even know about lighting issues their world used to have, so I doubt they're that knowledgeable about things.

[vocal shard]

Well, I go to that cardboard box one

I forget what it was called

[rigid crescent]

Oh noe's.

[queen mango]

Noe's Cardboard Box?

[rigid crescent]

It wouldn't be hard to make an optimized box replacement, the issue is just that The Box is a well established map.

Same with the pug and other "staple" maps

[vocal shard]

Wait, I'm a retard. I forgot that we can create private zones

[rigid crescent]

They're hard to replace because they're just do well established for one reason or another.

[languid beacon]

FYI unless the loading loop has been fixed by coincidence, changing my password fixed the loading loop forever.

[rigid crescent]

It doesn't always happen so probably not, in sure we'd have an announcement.

[floral aspen]

I have yet to experience the loading loop

[bleak rock]

Hoi

[languid beacon]

I've been asking around and there's a correlation with people that constantly get the loading loop, and people who have either been renamed or have a space in their name.

a friend tells me it's constantly trying to log in with his old name until he tries to log in manually

[rigid crescent]

Nope not really

It's ping related.

[languid beacon]

weird

i only seem to get the loading loop about a day after i last signed in manually

[rigid crescent]

Yeah that's how it works somewhat.

Or when I restart my pc

[bleak rock]

;-;

Cri

[glossy wharf]

@ruby burrow avatar culling is done with the avatars bounds.

It has nothing to do with the worlds occlusion culling.

[ruby burrow]

Do culling planes not block avatar bounds though?

I'd presume there must be some way to prevent an avatar bounding box always rendering.

[glossy wharf]

the bounding box is what determines when an avatar gets culled

its on each avatar itself

you can configure it yourself on avatar upload

[ruby burrow]

But it's not like avatars are the only objects with bounds. Every object has them.

[glossy wharf]

That doesnt matter though

the box is made up of 6 planes, they dont need to be culled

[ruby burrow]

No, I mean why would avatars be exempt from all other rendering rules.

[glossy wharf]

Because they literally are?

Each avatar has its own culling determinde by the bounding box

it checks if its in your vision and if its not it checks if you are in its bounding box

[ruby burrow]

Do we have a canny to fix this? Because if true that's ridiculous.

[glossy wharf]

if you arent in the bounding box it gets culled

what are you on about thats the most efficient way to cull avatars

[ruby burrow]

I know how the bounding boxes work.

[glossy wharf]

Apparently not?

the avatars bounds are the most efficient culling you can possibly have on an avatar

it takes the absolute minimum bounds possible

[prisma plover]

Speaking of bounding boxes, do they matter a lot ? Like do I need to make my bounding box very precisely close to my avatar dimensions ?

[ruby burrow]

Have we just confused something else about what we're saying in this?

[viscid seal]

They need to cover the max range your avatar can move itd limbs ideally

[glossy wharf]

You said "yet has zero culling planes to prevent you having to render every single avatar present."

[viscid seal]

To avoid it culling early

[ruby burrow]

Because far as I'm reading you, avatars would load at all times through any number of walls.

[glossy wharf]

"Each avatar has its own culling determinde by the bounding box
it checks if its in your vision and if its not it checks if you are in its bounding box"

[bleak rock]

#vrchat-fan-art Oi look

[prisma plover]

@viscid seal Oh so got to take in account the arm reach. Time to fix the boxes. 😅

[vocal shard]

bounding boxes are just a faster way of culling the whole object inside the unity engine

[glossy wharf]

Yes as i said, the most efficient way

[ruby burrow]

"The Box" has no walls or ability to cull at all. Thus yes, every avatar infront of you is rendered at all times.

[glossy wharf]

BEcause its in your vision

There is no lod for avatars, so yes it gets rendered?

[ruby burrow]

And what if it's behind a wall?

[vocal shard]

yep, it will discard even adding the avatar to the drawcalls for that frame

[glossy wharf]

If its behind a wall its not in your vision is it`

[ruby burrow]

How is the game supposed to know if that wall has a solid texture?

[viscid seal]

Occluder static

[glossy wharf]

because checks exist?

[vocal shard]

you should tell it

[glossy wharf]

thats what the shaders do

[vocal shard]

what lakuza said

gpu culling is the next step and less fast

[glossy wharf]

ZWrite on shader is there for depth testing and then theres also transparency being taken into consideration

[vocal shard]

and also wasting vram a little

[viscid seal]

When making worlds, you can assign the occluder static property to any object. When you bake occlusion anything hidden by an occluder marked object will cull it

[bleak rock]

When no on wants to look at my art

Cri

[vocal shard]

if people make a shitty world with no occluder info it will not make use of your avatar's bounding box because it doesn't know the walls/meshes are completely blocking it

[glossy wharf]

Were having a conversation of course we arent gonna look at your art if you just interrupt and throw it in there.

[ruby burrow]

Ok, so spare my confusion about you meaning that any basic walls and object also blocks a bounding box, without needing to be configured for it...
Everything I said about the "Laf free" box, still stands, yes?

[glossy wharf]

No it doesnt

[ruby burrow]

It has no walls, thus it forces you to render stupid amounts of avatars.

[glossy wharf]

theres nothing the creator can change.

so in that point you are wrong.

[vocal shard]

lag free box does not mean lag free avatar rendering, just a relatively lightweight world to draw

[ruby burrow]

Wait, ok I caught up on what Lakuza said, sorry.

"When making worlds, you can assign the occluder static property to any object."

[viscid seal]

^_^

[glossy wharf]

what 1001 said

[vocal shard]

the better you have occlusion set up and baked the less your gpu will have to handle culling

[ruby burrow]

So walls DO need to be configured for it. This was what I meant by culling planes. I just mistook the phrase and how that works.

[vocal shard]

because unity will be able to discard a lot of objects before actually starting the frame

[glossy wharf]

You dont really need to configure anything, unity generates occlusion itself

[viscid seal]

Hard for the box though since thered no walls inside the box

[glossy wharf]

You just needa hit generate

[viscid seal]

So you'll render every avatar in your view

[glossy wharf]

But yeah as lakuza said, its practically impossible to do occlusion in a box without walls on the inside.

[ruby burrow]

Lakuza said: "When making worlds, you can assign the occluder static property to any object. "

[glossy wharf]

Yes, that just means they are static objects, which quite frankly you do with any non moving object in a map for multiple reasons.

[ruby burrow]

"Hard for the box though since thered no walls inside the box"
"So you'll render every avatar in your view"
Exactly. @_@

[vocal shard]

occluder static and occludee static even

for windows etc

[ruby burrow]

How is this complaint a difficult or incorrect one?

[glossy wharf]

Its not even occluder static, its the whole object being static, for light baking aswell.

Its incorrect in the sense that neither the game nor the map maker can change anything about it.

[ruby burrow]

There are no walls, there is no nothing, so no matter how avatar culling works, it is the worst possible space for reducing avatar lag.

[vocal shard]

does this game even let you on if you have alot of ping?

[glossy wharf]

No

[rigid crescent]

Nope

[glossy wharf]

If your ping is too high you will get black screened or timed out

[viscid seal]

Yeah we're not arguing with there squishy

[prisma plover]

What would be the max ping that the game would handle anyway ?

[ruby burrow]

And since avatar lag is 90% of the games performance hit, that makes it a really lousy "lag free" space.

[glossy wharf]

i think somewhere around 3-400

Avatar lag is a big portion but i wouldnt say 90% lol

[prisma plover]

So folks on satellite Internet would be a big no no

They have like 600+ ms or something

[viscid seal]

Unfortunately :(

[vocal shard]

also the huge mirror in lag free box reflecting the whole room is probably the worst way to set up a mirror

[rigid crescent]

90% looool

[glossy wharf]

THe biggest impact is still the IK, then the voip, then avatars, and then theres the nice 25 drawcall nameplates.

[viscid seal]

Some well known players have been hit by the ping issue too

[rigid crescent]

Avatars are probably closer to 50

[glossy wharf]

avatars arent even 50

[vocal shard]

Thats why I wasn't able to get on tho lol.. My ping is almost always 700+

[prisma plover]

Oof

[ruby burrow]

Hmm. Does the IK still hit performance if avatars aren't rendered?

[rigid crescent]

Need more big streamers to be hit by it so it's fixed faster

[glossy wharf]

ik is like 40%, then 20% voip and then like 15-ish on avatars.

[viscid seal]

Hopefully devs will find someway to fix it

[rigid crescent]

Voip was knocked down a while back wasn't it?

[vocal shard]

does this game alot of data? I might use my lte to play worst comes to worst

@glossy wharf nameplates are not laggy because of the 10-20 drawcalls, there's a bunch of checks being done each frame, they are working on making that not happen each frame now

[viscid seal]

A friend can only go to 1 world per session

[glossy wharf]

its on its own thread but it still affects performance.

@vocal shard yet the 25 drawcalls have a massive performance impact.

[rigid crescent]

Oh i know I just wasn't sure how bad it was compared to before.

[glossy wharf]

Even the parts that are not shown get rendered.

because they are apparently using a shitty prefab for their nameplates.

just read rokks canny post about it

[rigid crescent]

I've seen some users in lower end pcs get better performance with them off, it was interesting to hear their reactions

I dont notice any difference personally.

[prisma plover]

30 nameplates multiplied by 25 draw calls for each equals 750 draw calls. 🤔

[glossy wharf]

Even tupper commented on it that the namplates are a performance hit.

[vocal shard]

not all drawcalls are equal, nameplates are laggy for other reasons and that's being fixed as we speak as far as I know

[viscid seal]

Yeah for dev meetup events when it hits 40+ players, turning nameplates off helped

[rigid crescent]

Not all dra-yeah what 1001 said.

[prisma plover]

Glad that they are working on fixes tho 👌

[vocal shard]

rendering sprites from a spritesheet is probably the fastest drawcalls around

[glossy wharf]

Its not a sheet though

[rigid crescent]

I'm guessing it matters mostly in large rooms and lower end pcs

[glossy wharf]

thats the thing, every single icon is its own material.