forum stonewalling megathread

[plush hazel]

#animation

[faint bramble]

skeletal mesh editing is animation?

[plush hazel]

Skeletal meshes are for animating meshes so yes

[faint bramble]

hmm

but lumen is lighting

[plush hazel]

I mean maybe you'll have luck here but generally this server doesn't make a channel fo every random module in the engine

[faint bramble]

niagara is vfx

sequencer is animation?

[plush hazel]

and? this is your first mention of Niagara

[plush hazel]

sequencer and Niagara have channels

[faint bramble]

yeah, im just trying to apply this logic to the rest of the channels

basically they dont need to exist when we generalize like that

having separate channel for rigging and skeletal mesh has its merits imo

[plush hazel]

I'd give up... all the logic there is... is this:

• They don't want too many channels

• Something needs to have enough unique info in the Mods eyes to add a new channel

[plush hazel]

There are already too many channels is the issue

[faint bramble]

bruh if they didnt want too many channels we would have discord forums already 😛

[plush hazel]

you obviously haven't been reading the feedback channel

most of the regulars hate forums

[faint bramble]

not really, using it first time

[plush hazel]

well you can read the old posts asking for other channels or forums to see this has been discussed to death 😄

[faint bramble]

why exactly though?

[plush hazel]

Many reasons but here are the most common:

• People are here to hang out and have a real time chat

• There are already community forums if you prefer that format

• Most of the regulars (myself included) wanna just sit in a channel and wait for questions/discussion; we don't wanna have to click into a bunch of threads

[faint bramble]

also, moving basically entire blender into unreal should be enough unique info imo

[plush hazel]

This is why threadding is only on in certain channels as a test and most people aren't using it

and why forums are only used for channels like this

and the work posts

[faint bramble]

threads suck because they destroy the original message and move it somewhere else

[plush hazel]

Anyway these topics have been discussed to death.... I'm not trying to drag it out more so I'm gonna dip. Good luck but I doubt you'll convince them

[faint bramble]

people cant fight progress forever 😛

[plush hazel]

It's not progress it's a difference of opinion and I'm sorry that you're in the minority but you'll see

[faint bramble]

only time will tell i guess 🤷‍♂️

[small belfry]

I mean old school style forums still exist for a reason progress is great but sometimes we just want to chill not everything needs to be optimized for the lowest common denominator IMO

[faint bramble]

why cant we just have both?

[plush hazel]

That's not how discord works... a channel is either a forum or a chat (and you can add threadding to a chat)

[faint bramble]

could make button on joining server

"i like forums" "i like channel spam"

[plush hazel]

That's not how Discord works you can't present a channel to some users as a chat and others as a forum

[faint bramble]

you can make channels visible only for some role

and u pick whatever u want to see

not hard really

a lot of servers are doing this

[plush hazel]

look you wanted them to add 2 channels and I said that wasn't likely

they aren't gonna mirror every channel and have only half of the people seeing one and the other half seeing the other (actual proportions will vary)

[faint bramble]

u dont need to mirror every channel since there is something called tags in forums

so we need far fewer forums than channels actually

[plush hazel]

they don't want to do that

[faint bramble]

but i get it, you just dont want anyone to have forums at all because you personally dont like them

[plush hazel]

please go read the previous requests

this has been discussed to death already

[plush hazel]

if you like forums then one already exists for you

https://forums.unrealengine.com/

[faint bramble]

i just give up, its not really worth repeatedly running against this wall

[plush hazel]

well I mean nothing is gonna change... this topic gets discussed every few months

[faint bramble]

i wonder why

[plush hazel]

if you read the previous requests like I asked you to you would know why

[faint bramble]

would i see comments from you in a majority of these posts?

[plush hazel]

I comment on nearly all feedback

[faint bramble]

i see

[plush hazel]

I mean I gave you actual reasons why people like myself don't want forums...

you haven't provided any rationale for why you want them or the additional channels

based on #1270045942308933683 message it seems you consider chat to be too full of "spam"

So answer me this:

If you prefer forums why is the existing community forum not good enough for you?

Is this whole thing because you think your questions aren't being seen (this is a popular reason for these requests)?

[stuck narwhal]

Xero is probably right. We usually don't add channels for all kinds of things. We sometimes add channels for smaller topics, with the option to close them again if they stay without traffic.

The problem is that if you add channels for every single feature, you divide the community across those and the people who know their sh*t are in the busy channels, cause they don't want to have so many channels to participate in.

Some of the channels were added when specific features came out, such as #sequencer . By now Sequencer can be used for Animating too.
It's up to you if you want to ask there, or in #animation . I would probably ask in #animation , as I would see #sequencer as more specific to the tech itself.

Some other channels were created because they overhauled existing systems and it was easier to split them to allow users to discuss new and old without overlap

E.g. #visual-fx and #niagara

By now they could probably be merged, but that feature doesn't exist.

We also have a bunch of almost dead channels, which we also added on request and barely anyone ended up using them. And the ones that do only ask questions with no one being there to answer them.

[plush hazel]

yeh I keep trying to send people from #cpp to #game-math but they never wanna move over.... at least #game-math gets some normal traffic

[stuck narwhal]

We also have #multiplayer and #online-subsystems and #epic-online-services

[faint bramble]

i know that unreal forums exist, its just that most discord users dont want to go there (including myself) because it takes long to get an answer, and most topics go unanswered anyways

adding a forums section in the discord wont hurt anyone since u can either just collapse it or opt out via roles, and it would give discord users a better way of keeping track of common issues, and probably reduce repeating questions

[stuck narwhal]

While in reality most of it gets pushed into #multiplayer or even #cpp and #blueprint

[faint bramble]

so u see, there is no need to deprive others of discord forums just because u dont like it

[plush hazel]

Discord only has fast answers because we're sitting in chat waiting....

I can say for certain half of us would just leave and only come back to ask questions if this was all forums

So that's gonna kill the help

[stuck narwhal]

That's an assumption. Forums may as well be dead, cause the users that answer questions don't want them and like the chat style of Discord.
We enabled Threads for a couple of Servers in cases where discussions get very long in busy channels.

[faint bramble]

you keep assuming all chats would be deleted

[plush hazel]

and look at how few people even use the threads in #cpp

[plush hazel]

When did I ever say that?

[stuck narwhal]

Forums may only ever be added as an alternative because the existing userbase largely doesn't want them. And that would mean they wouldn't participate in them.

[faint bramble]

https://discord.gg/ZSWNF8Fb

this discord makes pretty good use of forums

and its also a really nice unreal game

[stuck narwhal]

Yeah, I mean I would largely blame the lack of proper UX that makes them nicer to use and people more aware of them existing.

[plush hazel]

nobody is saying other Discord servers don't use forums well

it's really irrelevant

[stuck narwhal]

I guess the only Server that would be relevant that you could show is a 1:1 copy of this one with the same users where Forums are used instead of normal chat channels.

And at that point I assume most people would admit defeat and agree with you.

[plush hazel]

also I don't want you to get in trouble but you don't wanna post Discord links without being asked or you're breaking the server rules

[stuck narwhal]

Na it's fine. It's part of the discussion and not meant as any advertisement or similar.

[plush hazel]

yeh it was more about in the future

cause many people don't read the rules and don't know

[faint bramble]

why forums and chats cant just coexist? 😦

[plush hazel]

They won't make one big dump forum that's separated by tags

They also won't mirror all the chat channels

And they already complain things are hard to find with so many channels.... adding a forum won't help that

[faint bramble]

maybe we can start by adding a tutorials forum where we can post useful tutorials in an organized way with tags for versions etc

[plush hazel]

but you've been told this

[plush hazel]

That already exists https://discord.com/channels/187217643009212416/1054845249945616404

[faint bramble]

thats not really what i asked, u keep trying to put this in my mouth

also, this tutorials forum isnt particularly useful with that few tags

[plush hazel]

I'm not putting words in your mouth... if what I said was incorrect please state your proposal clearly

[plush hazel]

I don't care if the tags are to your liking or not... the point was such a forum channel already exists on this server

if you want to modify the tags in that channel then make a request for it.... this one has already been morphed into being about forums instead of the channels you asked for initially

[faint bramble]

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