#Math specific channel

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

marble roost
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I think math is (obviously) a rather complex topic in some cases and especially in game development, it would be great to have a channel dedicated to math questions/implementations where people who are confident in the topic have the ability to aggregate to a single channel occasionally to help others struggling rather than BP/CPP/Niagara/Physics or whatever else all having questions related to math an hoping someone is able to come along an help. A single channel for math would be great in my humble opinion. Thanks.

random night
marble roost
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With all due respect, its just a bunch of disagreement and fragmentation of math questions as the answer to that forum, "do it in cpp", "do it in programmer hangout", "do it in general", "do it in game design". I think a centralized channel for game development math concepts would be great, not to mention allowing for specific pins related to math topics.

I feel like there wouldn't be any downside to a math channel at all?

random night
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Oh I just shared it for documentation sake. Didn't take a look at the contents :) It's good to ensure we're aware of past communication about this topic. It also ensures we can see that previously there have been 27 upvotes on this topic.

main salmon
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I think a match channel would be good, especially with things like vector math, etc. Would be a popular channel.

latent night
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The math channel. Be where it counts.

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Or take the red pill, learn matrix math.

tall hazel
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I too am for a game math channel, it's a core pillar of most aspects of the different skill sets needed to make games

clever hearth
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I like the idea of a math channel

limpid vault
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This would be really handy, hope it becomes a thing

marble roost
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(:

timid hound
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Yeah I certainly could use a Math channel

onyx tulip
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I think #math is source of knowledge for making specific games as any other. Therefore, if #math is created, it may make sense to follow up with more channels, like #narrative #modelling etc. I'm just brainstorming for all the stuff needed to make a game. Whether it is UE one or not. Because math is not specific to UE.

marble roost
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disagree, math is a NEED, modelling could be covered by geometry tools if they changed its name. Math has a very real need.

lapis reef
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Modelling might be indeed a bit far fetched

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But I do understand that other channels might make sense if Math is created

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However, we also have to consider the actual need and how much those channels what be used

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It makes no sense to clutter the channel list with stuff that has 1 user every 3 weeks

onyx tulip
# marble roost disagree, math is a NEED, modelling could be covered by geometry tools if they c...

Math is not a must to make a game, live with that. Why? Because there are tons of tools and premade assets in UE, covering up the low-level details. If you want to do something more complex, yeah, I suppose, the basic trigonometry is always helpful.
Moreover, it is not specific to UE, I'm sure there are enough math channels and servers where a good help might be provided. In general, I don't see much of a need for #math specifically.

lapis reef
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You will need to see it from a more objective point of view though.

onyx tulip
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It is up to the server policy how far it want to reach in the different branches of knowledge required for making a game.

lapis reef
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If a lot of user might use channel X, but you don't see the need, then that doesn't invalidate the channel's existens

onyx tulip
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That's why I mentioned, if #math maybe it makes sense to add and others. Depends on the need of the devs here.

lapis reef
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For us it's always important if a channel will be used

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Not if someone specifically thinks a channel is needed or not needed

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Arguments are of course helpful

onyx tulip
lapis reef
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I'm mainly saying this so the channel doesn't turn into a YES/NO fight between a smaller group of users

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I'm also often looking for a generic math channel fwiw

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But that doesn't matter if I'm the only one using it :D

onyx tulip
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Ah, I don't want too. Just added my reply here, because we already had this discussion and as I said there, it must exist here and not spread all over the place.

lapis reef
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Yeah sure, I also don't see the "math is a NEED" argument as very helpful

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Even if I would want that channel

onyx tulip
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It is interesting how you decide on what channel to add, considering the 'objective' requirement we mentioned. But that another topic. I believe it is still subjective somewhat 😉

lapis reef
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The Math channel follows a very similar line like the game-design one.

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There are a lot of questions that could be placed into a specific channel and are often posted into other channels based on how close the actual design/math question is to those other channels

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Such as, do you deal with a c++ or BP math issue

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And with that comes the question: How often does that really happen? Do we really have non-stop questions about math in 13 different channels that take over the actual purpose of the channel?

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Is it even a problem that one posts math questions into other channels based on where and what math one struggles with?

onyx tulip
lapis reef
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As a mod/admin, we can't really decide subjectively on channels. They do influence us, of course, it's just human.
But I for example couldn't care less about art channels.

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Yet, if there are arguments for a specific channel and we see a lot of users needing it, I'm gladly adding it.

The Modelling one for example. If the tools in UE get good enough to actually replace blender and such, and there is a need to discuss those, then adding a channel for those tools makes sense

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The channel is of course not as active as other channels, but as long as it's not dead and serves a purpose, it's fine.

For math, that is the same. If a lot of users want a math channel, and it actually makes sense to offer a channel that math peeps can sit in and answer questions, then we probably going to add it.

Long story short, you all can give objective and of course subjective feedback for adding or not adding such channels. I think what counts a lot more though, are arguments that actually show the need beyond the OP's request.

marble roost
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You make alot of good points and I agree with them tbh

sterile shell
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I do see a lot of math specific questions asked for example. It could also be useful to past resources for game math

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i see a lot of questions that come from a lack of understanding of vector math, and while i do talk through the basics, it isn't necessarily relevant to the channel.

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Even just as a less used compendium for resources as the previously mentioned #game-accessibility with infrequent questions would be good

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a nice central place to direct users to learning game math i could see being useful

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because i disagree with ryogb, you cannot escape maths, even the most basic of games need vector maths and such.

onyx tulip
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Heck, my main argument is mostly that math is not ue specific and there is shiton of info already on other servers. And if mods here want to add one, maybe there is many more topics about game dev that needed to be added.

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If anything that is a must in any game is not math, but game design. Or just talking about your game. And we know how that channel went.

latent night
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Bullshit. The math you need to make a visual novel, pacman with premade assets, snake, phong, falling blocks or so is probably on the level of elementary school.
Don't overestimate this server's understanding of math.

white moth
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Not every game has or needs automation. Or AI. Or Accessibility. Or 20 other things we have channels for. And none of those topics are by themselves unreal-specific, but in the context of the server the discussions are. The same way we already tell people in cpp that the channel is for discussing c++ in relation to unreal. So that argument makes no sense.
game-design failed not due to the topic but because people didn't pay attention to what the purpose of the channel even was, and I see zero relevance of math to that.

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Not only that, but "we once had a channel about something and people didn't discuss that thing" is hardly a reason to avoid trying a completely unrelated topic, it's not like this would be some permanent decision that we are all bound to and must never change.

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I'm generally against unnecessary channels due to over-specificity or for the topics just not being relevant to the server. But math is pervasive and general questions pop up about it all the time. I'm not sure they're out of place where they currently get asked (and thus I'm not sure it really warrants a separate channel) but that's a very different argument from "math isn't unreal-specific" and "people didn't pay attention to the topic of a channel that one time"

onyx tulip
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Imma repeat myself for Nth time, I have nothing against math. I say, it is up to the policy of the server. Math is not UE specific, there are many servers out there for it. I see not bigger need than any other generic game-dev topic.

white moth
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And my point is that most of the existing channels are generic game-dev topics. Except people are discussing these topics in relation to unreal, which would apply just as much to math. Whether or not a channel is necessary should be a question of whether the channel would be active and relevant to unreal, the latter of which it clearly could be.

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And saying "it is up to the policy of the server" is a cop-out when you immediately state an opinion on whether it should exist. If you don't care whether it exists or not then why reply?

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Obviously you and I aren't going to make that decision, obviously it is up to the mods and admins. That's not the point, the point is to discuss the merits of the suggestion.

sterile shell
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and the suggestion i feel does indeed have a lot of merits personally.
I see a lot of beginner vector math questions, and other math related questions.

compare that to the aforementioned "must" of game design, where I have never actually seen a proper question regarding it.
we already have a programmer hangout for general programming, and an artist hangout for general art, which both aren't unreal specific anyway, so something math based could be insanely useful, as like the other two channels, there are a lot of questions surrounding it.

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I too normally hate channels for the sake of channels, given we have over 100, and was originally against this when initially suggested a few months ago, but since then have seen an increasing number of math related topics being discussed, in various realms of complexity

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sure you will get overlaps, but that is no different to what currently happens. stuff like shader math would apply to multiple channels.
but that's no different to a blueprint question being applicable to #ue5-general and #blueprint

stiff goblet
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yes please

keen trench
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I am expressing my feedback

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this would be cool

clever nexus
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Seems like something that could be pretty valuable in some possibly unexpected ways. Math is the foundation of just about everything we do with games. I'd love to see a channel like this.

fast cipher
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I think it would be super helpful.

lunar hound
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Agreed, for this

onyx tulip
# white moth And saying "it is up to the policy of the server" is a cop-out when you immediat...

Cop-out? U smoking something? I said what is my opinion and I said it is up to the guys decide whether that level of generalization is acceptable. I stated that at the start of this topic. This is not me, dropping out, is me saying the decision should be more generic when considering whether to apply that channel or not. It an extension to my opinion. Component, feature, add-on, etc.

In your logic, we can discuss everything game-dev related in this server. And I say, this is not black or white split of what should be in or out. There are shitton of topics which are game-dev related and are not here. So far my understanding is that guys/mods prefer to keep it much more UE tied than #math (so far, I repeat, so far), #narrative #modelling and all the other popular game dev categories.

tall hazel
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Keep it civil -_-; Shouldn't have to say that in a thread discussing the desire to have a math channel...

onyx tulip
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You know nerds smoke when they are heated up on some discussion.

mighty wave
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👍

marble roost
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Lets go lads, gettin some traction now baby!

finite shoal
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It is great idea, keep all the math problems from us ignorant peasants mokokoThink

marble roost
# onyx tulip Bullshit. The math you need to make a visual novel, pacman with premade assets, ...

With this logic the writing you need is from elementary school aswell. Stories where it begins, has a climax and then a resolution and conclusion, done, tripple A game story probably better than most games.

Now this is me being ironic because I understand games use more than simple writing but at the same time you act like simple math is all games need an no one needs a little help with it because we apparently learned all the math we need in elementary school?

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Very poor argument imo. If you want a narrative channel then make a suggestion in its own topic, dont degrade from mine and try push your own narrative on it

tall hazel
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We use math in animation, modeling, proceduralism, algorithms, vector, rotational, logic, gameplay, shaders, audio, it's pretty crucial to almost every subset of game development and design.

marble roost
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Games can be used to tell stories sure, but a story is just a story without the math

onyx tulip
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You misinterpret as it seems, you think I argue against #math? No, I'm okay with it.
Talking about it around here, even raise more attention, so it increases the chances.
I say, that choosing what kind of channels to be added should be based on some draw line or generic policy.
I see it #math as too generic and well sourced outside this server.
There are enough topic which make sense if you add #math. Gave few examples, not shilling them.

tall hazel
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i mean, i won't make any claims, about anyone, this isn't about anyone, so let's not make this about anyone, argue your stance on it, not argue other people

marble roost
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Its a specific math specific channel topic, not "what does everyone want to see"

onyx tulip
marble roost
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why dont you? Because alot of the math functions are done for you?

onyx tulip
marble roost
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Such a poor argument and it means everyone is suppose to treat everything like a black box and not look into it? How are you meant to use said math functions without knowing what they do?

tall hazel
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stop arguing people, discuss the topic -_-

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ryobg has stated his thought on it, and thank you, ya'lls feedback is important, but do not engage in arguing with each other, that is not what this is for

onyx tulip
finite shoal
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I think it is great idea. Explaining Quaternions and other extraterrestrial things.
Not for everyone math is easy.

primal matrix
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Math = Solve Problems that can't be solved without Math. 😂 (I am captain of stating the obvious.)

white moth
# onyx tulip Cop-out? U smoking something? I said what is my opinion and I said it is up to t...

Saying that it should be left to the policy of the server when we are trying to influence that very policy is not an argument.
And no, I never said we should discuss absolutely everything game dev related. I made my stance very clear: channels should be generally something you use within unreal and not so hyper specific as to not have much activity. I agree that it isn't black or white and I don't think anyone has said otherwise.
Modeling and narrative are primarily done with tools outside of the engine (the new modeling mode aside, but that's not intended as the primary workflow nor does there seem to be that much discussion about it specifically, thus not meeting my criteria). If there were built in narrative design tools and there was a lot of activity about them I'd have a different opinion.
Meanwhile not a day goes by where people aren't asking about how to implement some mathematical algorithm within either C++ or blueprint. And no, such algorithms are not "specific" to unreal but neither is discussing how behavior trees work. The context of doing it in unreal's tools is what makes it relevant.

sick smelt
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Personally I do a lot of weird math/physics in UE and i'd love a dedicated place to ask questions for things more complicated but I can see why it might be a little less common depending on the game you are making.

sick smelt
# onyx tulip Also on that I quoted, to make a game you don't need a math.

hard disagree there are games you can get away without math like you said VN normally don't do any math at all but as an example here is an equation I had to right to figure out how to line up my ships with docking ports, it would have been a great help when I wrote it to ask questions in a dedicated channel instead I mostly guessed and refined my formula until I figured it out.

{
    check(OtherVectors.Num() == 6);

    FVector ClosestVector = OtherVectors[0];
    float MinAngle = UKismetMathLibrary::DegAcos(FVector::DotProduct(InputVector.GetSafeNormal(), ClosestVector.GetSafeNormal()));

    for (int32 i = 1; i < OtherVectors.Num(); ++i)
    {
        const FVector& CurrentVector = OtherVectors[i];
        float CurrentAngle = UKismetMathLibrary::DegAcos(FVector::DotProduct(InputVector.GetSafeNormal(), CurrentVector.GetSafeNormal()));

        if (FMath::IsNearlyEqual(CurrentAngle, MinAngle, 0.01f)) // Allow for small differences due to floating point imprecision
        {
            // If the angles are equal, choose the vector with the smaller dot product with the input vector
            float ClosestDotProduct = FVector::DotProduct(InputVector, ClosestVector);
            float CurrentDotProduct = FVector::DotProduct(InputVector, CurrentVector);
            if (CurrentDotProduct < ClosestDotProduct)
            {
                ClosestVector = CurrentVector;
            }
        }
        else if (CurrentAngle < MinAngle)
        {
            MinAngle = CurrentAngle;
            ClosestVector = CurrentVector;
        }
    }

    return ClosestVector;
}```
onyx tulip
sterile shell
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Even if some of the maths questions would be basic why is that bad?

sick smelt
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that's my point if there's atleast a few examples then it should be a channel shrug

onyx tulip
sterile shell
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I definitely see maths questions that would be appropriate to address in a maths channel frequently. Is it mostly beginner vector math stuff, sure. Is it still math that is not relevant to the channel, also yes.

onyx tulip
onyx tulip
clever hearth
sick smelt
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I mean the mods created the feedback section for us to say what we believe is enough if i say 100 is enough and other discord members agree in enough numbers then it doesn't matter what the mods personally think they trust us to offer suggestions and they just make sure we don't abuse eachother imo

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either way I think more games use math than use sequencer or geometry-tools so personally I'd love to see it just my 2 cents

latent night
sterile shell
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i was also saying that if someone does use the channel for basic maths, it's not exactly a bad thing

onyx tulip
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And closed!

sick smelt
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topics get rebrought up all the time but it is important to note it was talked about before

tall hazel
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we linked that very same thread way earlier in this thread, so that it was clear it was a continuation of that conversation as a whole

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literally the first comment lol

onyx tulip
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I can link it again.

tall hazel
onyx tulip
marble roost
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who knew this was such a spicey topic

latent night
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Teh real battle comes when it's between math and maths.

marble roost
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undoubtedly its math

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🥸

sick smelt
timid hound
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We should call it Quik Mafs

stiff goblet
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can we please have the channel now 🥺

marble roost
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😃

round ermine
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camon

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mafs n dat

marble roost
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its been over a week and a bit now, any admins want to give any updates or insights as to whats going on?

latent night
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It took like 6 months to get an accessibility channel.

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Don't rush them 😛

marble roost
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there’s no way change and requests should take anywhere near that long, makes the point of a suggestions channel with the ability to discuss moot, may aswell mail in my request 😂 but i’m sure it wont take anywhere near that long to atleast hear something back

onyx tulip
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No math here, go read a book.

marble roost
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what is your problem dude? Sad little man who just sits in discord an be’s negative all day long?

velvet pendant
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if you want them to add this channel, pestering the mods about how long it takes and arguing with the regulars isn't a good method for achieving that goal

marble roost
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fuck it lmao idc anymore

onyx tulip
lapis reef
tall hazel
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This is the last warning I will give in this thread regarding attacking, insulting, or antagonizing other users. This is a discussion about adding a math channel.

random night
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The reason channels like this take a bit of time to add is due to aspects of what is discussed here. Is this a topic that should be part of Unreal Source, a Discord server for Unreal Engine? Is the demand high enough? Will this channel not turn out like certain earlier attempts at more soft skill channels?

Now maybe we're too careful when assessing these factors, but I trust the opinion of the mods that have been here a long time and kinda know how the server functions :)

marble roost
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who removed my message?

random night
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Me, I found it not very helpful to this discussion

marble roost
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I thought it really added to the vibe that I (op) was feeling about the progress, btw I love that this thread from yesterday #1171998263675715654 message already has an under consideration flag but I get "this is a big decision, you need to wait months to hear back blah blah".

sick smelt
lapis reef
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The cropout channel will def take longer :P cause with it comes a lot of other shit and we denied that in the past already. Doubt that one will even make it.

tall hazel
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I'm pushing for a #sample-projects forum channel with each official content sample project listed on the Samples page in the launcher, getting a dedicted staff created thread, to facilitate and hold conversations regarding the official sample projects within, with the first post being the link to the project, and the provided documentation on it, etc for each of the samples threads

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continue to show interest in this thread, and if you have friends or colleages that also would like to see this on slackers to come voice their support or non-support of this ^_^

marble roost
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If you search for math in this feedback threads you will see 3 posts totaling to just over 50 upvotes. You know how many the very unreal related #petting-zoo channel got? I don't mind there being a cute dogo and pet channel but I think its pretty double standard.

Also this method of trying topic alive for months is poor, its easy to lose steam on an obscure discord feedback thread. The fact that its totaled over 50 is honestly reason enough imo.

sterile shell
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petting zoo is one very specific cherry picked example of a quick channel though

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take a suggestion from 17/05 that was marked as under consideration for a #substrate channel

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note how that didn't link to a channel :P

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or perhaps the one from 19/04 for a #control-rig

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just gotta be patient

tall hazel
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This is now being marked as In Progress, and will be going live in the near future

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and it's not because the complaining i'm seeing, for things we are considering, we have an internal forum for staff as well that we create a thread for the things under consideration, where we fully discuss all the pros, cons, the method we will implement it, what we will enforce and won't enforce in it, foreseeable issues, potential solutions for if those issues arise, etc etc. Those conversations can take some time, as they are exhaustive and comprehensive to the best of our abilities.

sterile shell
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in such a large server you've gotta be sure you're going about it well, with a plan :P

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as much as i am for the channel, the excessive complaining was starting to grind my gears 😆

tall hazel
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our intention is to do what's best and healthiest for the server and not half ass it, we know this community is important to so many people and so we treat it with that level of importance

sterile shell
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yeah that makes sense

lapis reef
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The negativity towards us taking our time with this def doesn't help the case :P

marble roost
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thanks mods, have a good one

sterile shell
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you need to be annoying and repetitive to illicit change otherwise people dont care
you don't tho, the example of #game-accessibility as an example

marble roost
sterile shell
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there's also Slient Study that was mentioned once and shipped a couple of months later :P

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Things like programmer hangout were also casually mentioned not that often and shipped later

clever hearth
sterile shell
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loll

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not surprised, it was a much needed channel

latent night