forums for help

[south nymph]

I'm fairly certain it's been rejected already, but another server I'm on just rolled out forums for help requests to remarkable success. Perhaps as a supplement to the current channels, a forum for each category for longer help topics might be of value. I can provide examples or a link if it'd be of value, or just delete this if it's not going to be considered.

[haughty vortex]

longer help topics? if you need help with blueprints you go to the blueprints channel, not a forum channel. thats how it works for all the channels, so im a little unsure of what you mean. like an faq?

[south nymph]

I mean for a quick 5 minute newbie question, a channel's great, but a more involved and difficult problem, a forum post can keep matters segregated and not overran during troubleshooting, and can give a chance for those experts who aren't on when it's posted to provide assistance.

we actually already had one person post the same problem as someone from a few hours earlier and update with "found the fix in a previous forum post, thanks!"

[haughty vortex]

id like to quote a previous feedback post, "The only situations where this happens (where the appropriate channel cant answer the question) is if someone asks for help on a larger task or tutoring for" that matter, which is workload that someone should be hired for and that person then being redirected to the job board."

maybe a "tutoring" channel would be more called for

[south nymph]

Not an invalid point. In this other server, it's hardware-oriented so it may be a day or 3 before results of a fix are available.

[vestal ermine]

You can check the "Discord Forums and You!" post. We suggested it and it got fought a lot by peeps who sit in those channels and help.

So we kinda stopped asking for now.

[south nymph]

we were against it but gave it a try anyway

[stoic jacinth]

things have definitely changed, I was against it, but I've seen 2 really successful implementations of it, can also provide links or it didnt happen

[mental skiff]

at a glance forums seem like an objectively better way to handle answering questions and addressing problems, but curious to hear what the counter-arguments are

[jagged geyser]

+1 for this. I don't like the fact that both answers + questions get muddled into the same channel. Sometimes questions are posted while an answer to a previous question is being answered. Like previous points here, the chat channels are great for quick newbie questions but forums would be nice for topics that might require more than a single-post answer.

[slow haven]

Short version: The people who answer the questions on this server like hanging out and chatting while waiting for new questions. We also don't really hop between more than maybe 3-4 channels each and just kinda hang in 1-2 primary channels for us. Forums would be kinda a pain for that workflow.

If the people answering questions leave because they don't like the server layout nothing willing get answered and most of the people pushing for forums are the ones asking questions who want them to make their thread isolated from chat.

Long Version: Read about 50% of the threads here.

If you want some advice: we have 2 kinds of channels on this server, active ones and ghost towns. Ask questions in an active channel (stay on topic); you'll know it's active because somebody said something under 5 minutes ago.

Also keep in mind: The people who hang out here wanted a chat to hang out in. The official forums and answer sites like Stackoverflow exist for people who like those environments

[vestal ermine]

Yeah, only thing I don't agree with is the suggestion to post in an active channel, even if that channel is not about your topic. That will make sure the ghosttown stays a ghosttown

[slow haven]

No I don't think you should post in the wrong channels (that's why I said stay on topic), but some people post in the general chat and complain about being drowned out when they could go to a more specific channel and also some people go to a specific channel that is dead and they could ask in a more active general channel.

[vestal ermine]

Yeah well that's the whole problem with that "Why is it so hard to get help" post

[slow haven]

The problem is that people don't know how to/won't use search and they don't seem to pay attention to how long it's been since replies happened imo

but that happens everywhere.. see necro-posting in forums

[river blaze]

Forums was and always will be the best solution for QA.
Discord forum functionality is the best thing they have done for years, its superior, its like back to normal.

Im all in on this, and every discord server i see this is automatically and universally much better for not only finding help, but easy search and stay on topic.

Every single channel in the help categories should be a forum, its way better in every way.

[hazy jasper]

when it comes to help channels, the best approach I have seen so far is the Python discord server's method of 'OCCUPY-able' channels. I wish we had that here as well. One of the good thing about it, that they explicitly tell that someone is looking for help in that channel (actively), and only 1 person is occupying that channel (so its not bunch of people)

the channel has a timeout period of about 15 minutes from last message, after which the channel is set to 'FREE' status automatically.. since the conversation died.

[slow haven]

QA isn't the only purpose of the chat channels

[slow haven]

You guys are ignoring the fact that a large portion of the regulars that hang out and answer all the questions here won't anymore if we do these suggestions because they don't want to switch channels or help people 1 on 1.

This isn't StackOverflow or AnswerHub. Nobody here is an answer dispenser, they're just devs that like hanging out and answering questions as they come in.

None of us want to be DM'd about questions so why would we want to switch to a solo thread for a question?

[hazy jasper]

non of the python devs like it either, the things you described above. No one is forced to answer 1:1, they can answer in multiple channels, or just have a look in multiple channels, if they so wished. No one is forcing their behavior.

This is not a system, that is merely on paper, but actually works in realtime on a server bigger then Unreal Slackers. So its a proven solution. I suggest having a look at it, to understand it better.

[slow haven]

You're not understanding... we sit in a few channels... we don't like switching channels.... so how would they can answer in multiple channels, or just have a look in multiple channels, if they so wished address this?

[hazy jasper]

my friend, not everyone behaves in that way. Different people have different approaches. It seems you are assuming that every other person who answers any question will do the same as you.

[slow haven]

I've been on this server for years, I'm just telling you what the regulars here do... you can go read the rest of this feedback forum to see the same thing being posted by others.

[river blaze]

Sorry, but this is false and manipulation, i cannot agree.
The regulars could answer, but are not obligated at all to answer to anything, no one is, everyone understands that and also im not sure its the regulars only, have no stats on that, ppl just dont only come to ask and go after, they stay, and everyone of them can help anyone.

Ppl are already helping 1 on 1 as most posts on those channels are questions about specific things with answer directed to those that asked them.

And also there is no difference changing channels between chat and forum, all the same, not even sure what switching channels has to do with it at all.

Forums is not about demanding anything, but about way better structure and organisation.

Right now its just "timed spam", if u ask anything u have only a little time for someone to even notice your question as right after you others will ask their questions, its takes very little for your question to be scrolled away and never seen by those who maybe know the answer or can provide any help. Lots of question asked, never seen by anyone.

Not to mention way better search, tagging support, ofc with forums they scroll away too, but there is at least a chance that someone looks there, scroll thru it, see the topics, tags, that are his expertise and maybe help, with normal channel its way more text mess...

I don't think anyone would browse normal chat channels like that, its just unorganised mess, forums are way better.

Not to mention, u can just test it, create those forum channels and see how it goes.

Even the thing @hazy jasper describes is way better than simple chat channel, but for me its still worse than forum as it feels way to much pushed and demanding like, and the waiting thing, discord is many things, but its for sure is not a live support service, that a premium normally.

[slow haven]

I understand how you feel, but nothing I said is false.

While I can't speak for anybody else, if chat were replaced with forums or any of these threaded solutions; I would not help people ever, something I do often in #cpp currently.

Solutions similar to what you would like already exist, such as the official forums. I'd check them out.

[slow haven]

As for tests..... this #969360633386655744 forum is the test. I don't think it worked since this very topic keeps getting relitigated and rejected. Nobody here looked at any of the previous threads on this topic in this forum.

[slow haven]

You haven't even posted in any channels but #ue4-general, a single post in #materials and this in #969360633386655744. How would you know about how any of the other channels work? The general channels are always going to be filled with more activity.

If you're saying nobody is being helped please check out #cpp or #blueprint since those are the primary channels for assistance.

[river blaze]

Well its just my option i stand by, many things u said is sadly false or manipulation.
I also cant speak for anyone, but it is not about me or u, its about forum chat many advantages.

A single test forum is not a proper test at all and doesn't represent an actual feedback, sorry.
A true QA forum doesn't have a thing like "rejection", so not sure what u are comparing at all, apples to oranges.
Much more is needed for a proper test.

I know forums are always better, i have seen it on many other discords, some didn't even ask anyone about the change, they just changed as they knew it was obliviously better. Not to mention, there a plenty website forums and they do work better most of the time than discord as ppl know there, they need to search first, then ask, and thats why it works so good.
Sure ppl are not accustomed to it on discord, it didn't have this option for years, but thats why there is a need to force ppl to sue the right way, if not they will never learn.

Doesn't matter how channels work, they are all the same and forums are way better suited for the task, thing u mention are a non issue. Channels are just tags on forums, simple as that, if i want to ask an audio question i go to audio channel, the difference is, the question wont be a part of never ending text channel, it will be a separate visible question, u can link to anything anyway if there is a need.

Also i never said nobody is not helping anyone, thats another of your manipulations, i only said that chat structure makes it so many questions are not even seen, its harder to search, its less clear and organised.

But as i said, its just my opinion, to do it the proper way probably this whole discord would need to be organised with a well thought structure before making any changes, well for sure its not just "convert the channel".

[stoic jacinth]

One thing the Python discord mentioned above does that really sets it apart, is it adds the ability for issues to be organized and viewable, increasing the likelihood of engagement as opposed to taking a shot in the dark during an active chat. An extensively large population of people like to leaf through issues. Lurking developers like to see what reoccurring issues people are dealing with, and so do a lot of us. It's simply putting it in a more accessible area that people can ignore if they choose. The current system is to shoot your shot and hope someone sees it, and is in the mood to answer it, and that another conversation isn't actively going on. Then you have to have to repost your question while worrying your not breaking the rules doing so, (or you don't worry and spam post). I'm really in favor of having some kind of action taken to have peoples issues in a more organized matter.

What about the ability to tag posts? You post a question in a chat channel along with a few tags /cpp /audio /metasounds, then you can go to a category somewhere and scroll through tagged messages that manny has auto posted in some feed channel somewhere?

[slow haven]

It's tagged rejected, I'm sorry you don't like how these mods do things.

I'm not manipulating anybody so I don't know why you think that tbh.