#career-chat | Unreal Source | Page 83

mystic hull Aug 14, 2020, 11:37 PM

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"Installing and upgrading software" what?

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It feels like syntactic sugar to me, just to give the illusion that they're different

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apart from a few bullet points, they look about identical to me

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I'd take the top one as well, you can learn the game specific stuff on your own

potent ermine Aug 15, 2020, 12:24 AM

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I personally find Software Engineering* prepares you more for a career in software development

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Computer Science is more theoretical imo

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You aren't as well prepared to make decisions about overall software design/architecture which is much more important than algorithms

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At least at my uni, software engineering prepares you for working in the industry with team projects and design courses

shadow kelp Aug 15, 2020, 8:02 AM

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as an employer I'd always prefer compsci grads. They usually have a better grasp of data structures and algorithms which is fundamental to everything you do as an engineer.

wild herald Aug 15, 2020, 11:39 AM

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Hi guys! i just wanted to ask, I recently got into level designing last July 28 and i was really hooked to the point that i want to change my career as a SQA into a level designer. Now, i sent an application to a famous gaming company as a level designer and they are asking for my Playable Level. I already created some parts of the map but since i am making an open world map, particularly a survival game, I cant finish it YET and I am also still working on my current job as a SQA. My Question is, is it okay to send an unfinished Level design? or should I finish it first before submitting it?

vernal gazelle Aug 15, 2020, 11:44 AM

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Personally if I was the gaming company, I wouldn’t judge whether the level/map was finished, but rather the current progress and the ideas for the rest of the map.

For me atleast, level design is a lot more than just making cool stuff, it’s also about the ideas you have, the thought process that let you there, etc.

That’s just my 2 cents 🙂

wild herald Aug 15, 2020, 12:07 PM

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@vernal gazelle I actually have a very big plan for this game and I swear to finish it and someday share it to other gamers around the world as my first self-made game. I am just quite worried that if I took so much time to finish it before submitting, the job opening might be already taken. (I really want to quit my job as an SQA to pursue level designing. 😆 I am not really happy about my current job as an SQA..) my current situation is quite difficult too because I am the breadwinner of the family so I need a stable job that's why i just cant leave my current job and be unemployed while working on this game. I really need a job 🤣

vernal gazelle Aug 15, 2020, 12:11 PM

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@wild herald Personally I'd say submit it before it's too late. Even if it's not finished.

If you finish, but didn't submit. Then you obviously can't submit :D
If you submit what you have now, you have submitted and have an actual chance of a good outcome! Personally tho I'd make it clear that it's not done, and why (and probably also ideas you had in the works, so they can get a sense of how I'd look)

That's how I would do it anyway 😄 But do what makes you comfortable!

wild herald Aug 15, 2020, 12:14 PM

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@vernal gazelle Eyyy thanks! I'll give you a copy of my game for free once i finished it! haha I'll finish the blockings today and submit it to them. I'm hoping for the BEST! hahaha thanksss

vernal gazelle Aug 15, 2020, 12:14 PM

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@wild heraldOh damn, thanks dude :D

Good luck with the submission! I'm crossing my fingers for you!

wild herald Aug 15, 2020, 12:15 PM

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@vernal gazelle Thanks! 😆

next sparrow Aug 15, 2020, 5:52 PM

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Hey everyone ! Quick question( maybe long answer 🤣) I finished a 3d generalist uni, familiar with maya, zbrush,photoshop,substance and novice in UE, AFX,Premiere Pro etc., starting to study c++ basics, and houdini and later on python. Basically I would love to know where to start this crazy journey of tech artist for an indie game dev company. mostly based on maya->ue integrations( pipeline advices etc.) I say crazy because the more I look at this industry it's getting more and more overwhelming and don't know where to start really, but no way in hell am I giving in XD I hope the question made some sense

ocean dragon Aug 15, 2020, 6:27 PM

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@wild herald If you're submitting something as part of a job application, avoid showing unfinished work. Portfolios with unfinished work will be judged critically because it demonstrates a lack of persistence/focus. Companies don't want to hire someone that will evidently run out of steam towards the end of a project.

As you're making a huge open world environment, what I would suggest is that you focus on a small area of it and polish it to the best standard possible - leave the rest of it as a detailed whitebox.

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@next sparrow Might just be my experience, but I've always seen continuous demand for people who can write solid shader code, if that's an area of Tech art which interests you

wild herald Aug 15, 2020, 6:33 PM

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@ocean dragon that is actually what i did, i focused on the main part and but i blocked the unfinished parts, like fore example there is a supposed to be place behind the waterfalls, instead creating a room, I blocked it with stone. all the blockings are in the tunnel like structures

next sparrow Aug 15, 2020, 6:35 PM

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@ocean dragon if that's something that can get me started then I'm all in for the near future 😂

ocean dragon Aug 15, 2020, 6:41 PM

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Sometimes if you leave something in a kind of placeholder stage it will still be judged against you. My advice is to try avoid showing things that are clearly WIP unless they look stunning as-is.

If something is clearly in whitebox stage then the artistic quality will generally be ignored, but it still shows evidence of future planning.

Whereas if it's in a kind of half-done stage using placeholder assets it can often look a bit tacky

wild herald Aug 15, 2020, 7:05 PM

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@ocean dragon alright, it kinda make sense actually. thanks! i will finish my whitebox stages later. thank you for your feedback, because of that i will give you a free copy of my game once it is finished 😁 its the least that i can do hehe

next sparrow Aug 15, 2020, 7:34 PM

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next step after shader code? I have so much to do.... 🤔

lime cobalt Aug 15, 2020, 8:11 PM

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@wild herald I started as a level designer (wasn't my preferred role but was a good entry point) and I can say with confidence that open world isn't a great idea for submitting for a job application. For my level design test I did something akin to Deus Ex which was a smaller level with lots of non linearity. It allowed me to show off multiple facets of my skillset, from exterior design and making a space feel real, to tight interior areas with lots of opportunities for stealth. I'd love to share it but I don't believe I can 😦 But if you have any questions about applying for a position in LD let me know.

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as a note the game i ended up working on (Dead Island) is an open world game, but think about scope. I made this in a week so think what you can reasonably make in a week to a decent whitebox level and look at making some really good blockouts that showcase your talents and interests.

wild herald Aug 15, 2020, 8:18 PM

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@lime cobalt i do have some question, i going to send it to you later, it is a bit late here now haha its 4am 😂 i added some extra rooms in my level design haha im going to send some screenshots to you later, thank you!

marsh stream Aug 17, 2020, 8:55 AM

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Hi guys,
I wanted to ask if this particular scenario looks bad and if so how bad does it look.
I applied for a Junior Game Designer position. I believe I met the requirements. The company however didn't accept my application which is fine . But the same company has a Game Tester position available. Its definitely something I see myself doing too and the requirements of this role seem less strict. Is there any harm in applying for the Tester position about a week after being rejected for the Junior Game Designer position? Does the company see this in a negative way at all?

hybrid phoenix Aug 17, 2020, 9:09 AM

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Shouldn't really make a difference to them, given that the two roles are not incredibly far apart

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If you were to do an engineering application and then a character art application, that'd probably be questionable

shadow kelp Aug 17, 2020, 11:52 AM

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Yeah, you've not got a lot to lose really.

scarlet fulcrum Aug 17, 2020, 12:24 PM

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Hi guys,
I wanted to ask if this particular scenario looks bad and if so how bad does it look.
I applied for a Junior Game Designer position. I believe I met the requirements. The company however didn't accept my application which is fine . But the same company has a Game Tester position available. Its definitely something I see myself doing too and the requirements of this role seem less strict. Is there any harm in applying for the Tester position about a week after being rejected for the Junior Game Designer position? Does the company see this in a negative way at all?
@marsh stream

Hello Cardoor, thanks for posting the question and good luck on your applications. :)

Speaking personally, when I am hiring and I see multiple applications to positions from a single candidate, this shows me they are more interested than normal to get a job as opposed to a specificl role. I only considered this a negative trait if the two positions did not overlap, in your case I would not have had any issues or negative impact.

marsh stream Aug 17, 2020, 12:32 PM

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If you were to do an engineering application and then a character art application, that'd probably be questionable
@hybrid phoenix Yeah thats really nice to know, was worried 👍 thanks

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Yeah, you've not got a lot to lose really.
@shadow kelp haha very true 😅 doesnt hurt to ask

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Hello Cardoor, thanks for posting the question and good luck on your applications. :)

Speaking personally, when I am hiring and I see multiple applications to positions from a single candidate, this shows me they are more interested than normal to get a job as opposed to a specificl role. I only considered this a negative trait if the two positions did not overlap, in your case I would not have had any issues or negative impact.
@scarlet fulcrum Thanks a lot for the very friendly response! 🙂 Yeh I totally see that being issue if the jobs were very unrelated. Great! I will be sure to send my next application through thank you 👍

mossy pine Aug 17, 2020, 5:05 PM

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https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Po6PAy

If I can get feedback on this I'd appreciate it ☺️

ArtStation

The Diving Bell, Cody Reader

"The Diving Bell" is part of The Dread X collection 2, which can be found on steam. I did all of the assets in The Diving Bell which amounted to 168 models made in less than a month.

green oyster Aug 17, 2020, 5:27 PM

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well I think "168 models made in less than a month" is not something to brag about or show off. That's like 1 hour per model, what's the point? make a 30 day, 30 models modeling challenge instead, or do some serios modeling studies on complex objects

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@mossy pine if that's all the time you had, make something stylized or super simple like astroneer

hybrid phoenix Aug 17, 2020, 5:41 PM

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For portfolios, always quality over quantity

mossy pine Aug 17, 2020, 6:00 PM

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Good insight, I guess my phrasing is flawed there.

I think the point I was making, was that even under a deadline, I am able to get the work completed. Some models didn't take a full hour to make haha, such as a diamond, or a chair. If I take over an hour to make a simple low poly chair, I should quit now. Haha. ☠️ (Actually I've been doing this for 15+ years, I can make low poly stuff in my sleep.) I will change the description for sure, as I don't want these to read as if quality was thrown out the window or something silly like that. I put my damnedest into everything I make. 😁🤘

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I suppose that's why I make models and am not a writer 🤭

green oyster Aug 18, 2020, 4:34 AM

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15+ years? where are you trying to get career-wise? an employer would want to see you're familiar with industry standard stuff like normal map baking (can't see it on the project), realistic texturing (like wear and tear), etc

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or if you're not doing normal maps, then face weighted normals in your models and proper hard/soft edges

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a simple low poly chair should take you at least half a day, btw. you can't have anything useful in an hour, unless it's a blockout, or a stylized piece, no textures, low-poly style

📎 unknown.png

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 5:15 PM

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15+ years?
@green oyster

Yep. I started out doing art in 3ds max at age 15. I'm 30 now.

Thanks for the feedback. ✌️

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 5:58 PM

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those models in a month is def good, im not a fan of the lighting tho

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 6:00 PM

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Lighting is trash tbh. Everytime I would tweak it to have better lights and so on, I never heard the end of it from my team. "It's meant to be that dark!!" Ugh. Either way, glad to have made the game, glad I got professional dev work, happy over all, but for portfolio work-trash. I'm laying out a whole new set of assets made just for a port.

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 6:00 PM

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well in the screens at least, its not too bad in the vid

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its just really red and green 😛

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 6:01 PM

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The video and playing the game makes sense, because there is a light attached to the player. So it brightens up as you walk. The screens are without that light.

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The in game light even nulls out the red and green. It makes so much more sense in motion haha.

ashen lynx Aug 18, 2020, 6:01 PM

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@mossy pine Whos portfolio am I looking at? it is not clearly apparent what your specialization is.

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 6:02 PM

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168 props in a month

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 6:02 PM

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I don't understand your question death.

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Thanks for the feedback owninator. 168 assets in a month was insane. I slept about 3 -4 hours a night. Helps to be a insomniac, but it was still brutal. Our scope of work was kept small, but the concept artist and writer got way carried away with how many rooms you could go into, assets for every room. -"who locked the bathrooms?! Those stalls took time!" Lol

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 6:06 PM

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dunno if the level itself is included

ashen lynx Aug 18, 2020, 6:08 PM

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It is just that you requested feedback, and it is not readily apparent what is a subject of the request.

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 6:10 PM

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Feedback on the way I have set up the artstation account. I have a long history, but to put it simply, I avoided social media for nearly a decade. Now it has left me in a awkward place for catching up on how a portfolio looks for 3D assets. Clearly using these assets as a display was a major mistake.

I'm a 3D generalist. You name it, I'll make it.

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 6:14 PM

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the snaps to full black on the vid, i really hate those

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if u make one of those models record it, speed it up and say the time it took would prolly be better

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could have taken a year on those models, no way to tell

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some1 clicks ur page, sees the screenshots not the best level on artstation for sure, scrolls down decent models, not the best, they might not read the text and browse to the next

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 6:52 PM

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a timelapse and some of ur most detailed work would prolly look more interesting

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 6:58 PM

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💯% agreed. Someone on reddit did a wonderful break down of it for me "from a AAA perspective" it was fantastic, I'm looking forward to updating it with all the advice.

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 6:58 PM

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well if the boss was happy its a job well done on it 🙂

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 7:01 PM

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He tore it up, but with grace. Haha. I plan on executing everything he/she had described for me.

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 7:01 PM

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well a month is over pretty fast

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 7:05 PM

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Oh! Sorry I misunderstood. You mean DreadXP, yeah! They loved it. QA feedback was fantastic too. I personally think some of the other games in the collection will be better, but I can't wait to play them. Game releases on the 21st.

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Mostly excited to see the let's plays

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 7:08 PM

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@mossy pine link the reddit, might wunna check it later 😛

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 7:09 PM

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https://www.reddit.com/r/gameDevClassifieds/comments/ibicua/portfolio_looking_for_feedback/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

r/gameDevClassifieds - (Portfolio) looking for feedback.

1 vote and 3 comments so far on Reddit

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 7:10 PM

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damn he wrote a lot of text 😛

steel creek Aug 18, 2020, 7:17 PM

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you iterate. This is a good thing. So long as you iterate++, you are golden.

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 7:17 PM

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its basically what i said, ur models are fine for a months work but the presentation is lacking 🙂

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mayB try quixel mixer, it wil never run out on you 🙂

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actually think ill reinstall that and go make some random stuff myself for now 🙂

mossy pine Aug 18, 2020, 8:05 PM

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Substance painter 🤘there was a issue at the start of the project that left nearly all of the models without proper textures, basically my subscription timed out and I had to contact their support, it took weeks for it to be fixed, but by the time it was fixed, I had already moved onto finishing the task of a ungodly amount of models. Haha

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 8:31 PM

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Hi guys! Quick question, how much does an entry-level game level designer usually earn as a monthly salary? Let say this person works at a triple A company like Ubisoft or EA?

mystic hull Aug 18, 2020, 8:39 PM

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@wild herald Solely depends on the country you work in when it comes to AAA

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Work at Ubisoft in Romania, you'll earn a fraction of what you would if you worked at Ubisoft in say France

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As far as my knowledge goes from contacts, that is

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(I don't work in TripleA)

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 8:42 PM

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@mystic hull ohh thats why the numbers are way too high 😂

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I was searching for an average salary and all i saw is the average salary in usd and then i converted it to Philippine peso the numbers just sky rocketed 😂 like it doesn't make sense haha

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You see, I sent an application in Ubisoft Philippines as a level designer, and right now I literally have no idea how much does a level designer make 😂

mystic hull Aug 18, 2020, 8:48 PM

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Ask them to give you an offer, you should be able to nudge it up a bit

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it's really mostly negotiation, they usually have a range of X to Y, for example

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Im not sure how it works for entry level though

hybrid phoenix Aug 18, 2020, 8:53 PM

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I'd say you can generally expect a salary that's about what you'd expect for medium-skilled labour college graduates - whatever that may be where you live

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So not insanely low, but definitely not very high

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 8:54 PM

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By the way, my real job right now is a SQA, and i have a 4 years experience and i also have a leadership experience. I grew tired of it because i really dont enjoy it anymore, so stressful and yet my salary is just awful so i decided to finally follow what i Love and that is making games. I know SQA is a way to different than level designer, but do you think those 4 years will count? Am I considered as entry level?

hybrid phoenix Aug 18, 2020, 8:55 PM

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SQA being Senior Quality Assurance?

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If so, you'll likely be considered entry-level with the small bonus that you're (probably) familiar with production and standard design practices

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 8:56 PM

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@hybrid phoenix well i was a senior software quality assurance before, i was promoted last january into associate software quality assurance engineer

hybrid phoenix Aug 18, 2020, 8:57 PM

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Ah, software, not gamedev

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Then yeah almost certainly entry-level

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Note: I'm in no way involved with hiring or anything related and have no experience with it, so take everything I say with a grain of salt - I'm just going off my experiences and reasoning

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 8:58 PM

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Yes, the software used in toyota cars actually.

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 8:59 PM

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sound like u shouldnt move at all actually 😛

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 8:59 PM

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Oh so that means my 4 years of experience doesn't count because it is way to different?

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 8:59 PM

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car software is where the real money is

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:01 PM

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Naaah not really, maybe if you are in the mid to highest part of the hierarchy. It is also boring, and stressful.

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 9:02 PM

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ubisoft they all get wasted and play games? 😛

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:04 PM

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Find someone with access to this: https://www.croner.biz/compensation-surveys/croner-software-games-survey

The Croner Company

Croner

Croner Software Games Survey

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That data is reported by the employers

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:04 PM

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Its 5am here in the Philippines and i just finished my task.. I worked for less than 20hrs and my salary is just awful.

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I only earn 370usd or 18000 pesos monthly and you are telling me that car software is the where the real money is 😂 what a joke haha

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 9:07 PM

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yea, its prolly not in the Phillippines tho

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:07 PM

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Probably not toyota too 😂

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 9:08 PM

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hmm i dunno about that

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:08 PM

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Wages are cooked.

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thus.. form unions. 😉

shut tree Aug 18, 2020, 9:08 PM

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ur gettin the short end of the stick there whatever comp u work for

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:09 PM

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because the computers themselves are a part of the racket... anyone connected to the things is a part of it.

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:10 PM

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Imagine, i am a sub leader of a team, when people needs an assistance for their projects, i am the one who help them. Its been 4 years this is what i reached. Its not that i am lazy, i just worked for 18 hours today, its just this my job sucks 😂

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:11 PM

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who actually has 'the good job?' heh

hybrid phoenix Aug 18, 2020, 9:12 PM

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To get back on-topic

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Oh so that means my 4 years of experience doesn't count because it is way to different?
Pretty much

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You're both changing industries and changing to a fundamentally different role

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:12 PM

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experience doesnt ever count... only leverage does

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:13 PM

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Well, if i got a gaming related job, i'd be happy. I mean, i've i endured this job for a very long time, following what i love might make me happy.

hybrid phoenix Aug 18, 2020, 9:13 PM

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Oh yeah not saying you shouldn't do it

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Purely commenting on the experience part

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:13 PM

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@hybrid phoenix i am actually expecting that

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experience doesnt ever count... only leverage does
@mortal vapor what do you mean about leverage?

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:17 PM

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What can be used in a negotiation to increase your actual deal and get protections for (or at least compensation for violations) SOME humane forms of labor (mis)treatment. Might even include profit participation or partial company ownership in some cases.

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Having info about what the firms are paying, can be used as leverage... you're on the right track there

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:18 PM

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Oh yeah not saying you shouldn't do it
@hybrid phoenix I'm going to do it anyway 😂 I mean, for me, if you love your job, you will go be good at it, and if you're good at it, the quality of your work will increase and if it increase, so does your salary is.

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:19 PM

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thats the lie 🙂 hehe

hybrid phoenix Aug 18, 2020, 9:20 PM

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My experiences don't really line up with what you're saying Set

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So I disagree 😛

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:21 PM

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My experiences are primarily from film vfx... there is some overlap with games as well as some stark contrasts.

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:22 PM

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Well we all do have different experiences i guess 😅

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:22 PM

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We're only now seeing our first 'retirees' in the industry.. thats the tell

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what was the ENTIRE arc of their career compensation like

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:25 PM

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Anyway, I'm still going to pursue my dream to be a level designer. As far as I know, the salary of a game tester Ubisoft is like triple of my current salary, not that I am saying that the salary of a game tester is the same with a salary of a level designer, what im trying to say is if i ever get accepted, my salary will surely increase, not sure for how much but at least it increase.😂

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:25 PM

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factor in the burn out/fall out. I dont know how many years current stats are putting things at, but apparently games careers look like sports. short.

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go for it 🙂 its all more fun than having a real job 🙂

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:28 PM

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Actually the salary is the least of my worries haha i just wanted to change my career right now, i know that my salary will increase eventually if i know i am in the right job for me.

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Might as well create my own indie game studio one day haha

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@mortal vapor have you ever experienced that feeling or that sensation that you can say it to yourself that this is my "thing". You got me? Like "this is what i want to do, this is my thing" that kind of moment?

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:35 PM

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in my late 40s here.. been in movies since early 20s.. yep 🙂 I know that feeling. Strange thing here though, is the inverse of that moment. 'Well... that was that... Now what?'

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:45 PM

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@mortal vapor wow I didn't thought you were at your 40's, I'm at my early 20's right now. Way back when I was a student, I don't really have a direction in my life. I am like a robot that follows my parents, don't skip class, don't fail any subject, graduate on time, I don't really have "my thing" I am a go with the flow kinda guy. But now that I found "my thing" things literally changed. I got a lot of goals, short term, and long term goals, I am not the guy who just goes with the flow, I actually spend time learning unreal on my own, it is tiring but it feels good.

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:49 PM

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combine what you know with what you are learning. Thats the next gen gig. It'll all be game engines and true object oriented agent building, soon enough. Game engines will be behind everything.

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An entire generation now rests its hands on a keyboard in WASD rather than Reminton Rand/IBM corporate Qwerty 😉 And the 'keyboradless' are now in their early teens...

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:52 PM

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Someone told me that the majority of a person's entire lifetime is spent on working i think its about 60%, so you better find a job that you know you would love and enjoy. A job that you know you will be good at and you will continuesly to improve.

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:53 PM

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that can also be read as: 'find something you're ok being exploited to do, for food and shelter...' 😉

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 9:53 PM

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@mortal vapor lol truue hahaha

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An entire generation now rests its hands on a keyboard in WASD rather than Reminton Rand/IBM corporate Qwerty 😉 And the 'keyboardless' are now in their early teens...
@mortal vapor most of the next generation doesn't even know how to play basketball haha they rather play video games instead lol

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One day traditional sports will be gone, because no one is going to play it. Specially right now, that people can't go outside to play because of covid.

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 9:58 PM

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The Atari 2600 home unit began to be sold when I was 6 years old. I grew up like todays kids. I was 'online' by 1982 with a 300 baud modem in my preteens. Its not THAT new. 🙂

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 10:00 PM

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Most of the kids here have their own phones 😂 like literally 7 years old kid has a phone and knows how to use it for games.

mortal vapor Aug 18, 2020, 10:01 PM

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HUGE markets. LOTS and LOTS of screens.

wild herald Aug 18, 2020, 10:04 PM

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Esports is also a thing now, i remembered before it was so controversial because it is not a "sport" it is a video game. But now, they earn a lot of money out of tournaments, they also train themselves to be good at the game just like how the so called "real sports" athletes train and earn money.

fickle hatch Aug 19, 2020, 12:30 AM

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Real sports like chess and swimming

quick cypress Aug 19, 2020, 2:28 AM

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can i get some feedback for my new portfolio site? https://kimniemann6.wixsite.com/makestuff

Makestuff

Home | Makestuff

wild herald Aug 19, 2020, 2:45 AM

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@fickle hatch yes sports like that haha isn't weird that people call chess a sport and esport is not a sport but chess is literally a board game 😂

green oyster Aug 19, 2020, 3:58 AM

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@quick cypress i think you should cut out all character art and anims. doing characters is extremely hard to get right. I would do a lot more studies for those

quick cypress Aug 19, 2020, 4:00 AM

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i would, but its a big part of my business. most of my income so far has been from character animation and art

quick cypress Aug 19, 2020, 4:21 AM

#

don't get me wrong, i know its not at the same level as my prop and weapon art. but i keep getting requests for that from clients. im worried that removing it for any length of time might reduce that

quick cypress Aug 19, 2020, 4:45 AM

#

although, i am working on more creatures and monsters, i think they look better than my characters so i can start shuffling them in over time to replace the characters

#

that would still let me advertise the animation and creature art but have a higher quality

pseudo lily Aug 19, 2020, 8:14 AM

#

I'm just about to start a career as a teacher! Teaching 16-18 year olds UE4 and modelling skills. Are there any teachers in the house to give a newbie some tips?

hazy gazelle Aug 19, 2020, 12:25 PM

#

chaaat ?

#

were are you ?

little ore Aug 19, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

hello guys, I'm a ongoing college student taking the course about game art. I want to ask if working on a game studio is worthit? Is it enough to raise a family? I was thinking about my future btw.

digital canopy Aug 19, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

@plucky hatch I was submitted from Russia, in our country if sales are not exceeded specific number of money, you do not need to pay TAX for that income. payment from Epic is transferring to my PayPal account and from it I can transfer to my bank account.

elder mist Aug 19, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

Greetings!
Is that a good idea to make portfolio website using Github Pages?

rustic forge Aug 19, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

Doesnt seem like it would be a bad idea

hybrid phoenix Aug 19, 2020, 7:54 PM

#

What's your intended position?

elder mist Aug 19, 2020, 8:39 PM

#

@hybrid phoenix Tech artist

#

sorry for late reply

hybrid phoenix Aug 19, 2020, 8:39 PM

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Ehh that's complicated then. I personally have an Artstation profile

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But it depends what your niche is

#

I do pretty in-engine stuff and optimization

mystic hull Aug 19, 2020, 8:40 PM

#

I don't think I've ever seen an artist setup a github page portfolio 🤔

#

You usually have repos for your shaders and whatnot afaik, as well as a preview of them in action on something like artstation?

elder mist Aug 19, 2020, 8:43 PM

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@mystic hull I haven't seen any actually
but i know some tech artists, need to ask

mystic hull Aug 19, 2020, 8:44 PM

#

Well, I'm an engineer myself, just giving a quick reply. You'll find some big artists in here 😛

hybrid phoenix Aug 19, 2020, 8:59 PM

#

https://www.artstation.com/victorgoossens

ArtStation

Victor D. Goossens

Unreal Engine - Technical Art / Look-Dev / Programming

#

^worked with a tech-art specialized recruiter after I updated that, had quite a few interviews very quickly, so I'm guessing I did something right

plucky hatch Aug 19, 2020, 9:02 PM

#

From experience I recommend what Blue said: you probably need both the repo and the Artstation with screencaps or youtube videos of your work in action

#

it highly ddepends on the other end: first of all, recruiters are usually the first stepping stop towards an interview, and recruiters are not prepared to evaluate repositories

#

they see artstations and linkedin pages

#

thats a hook

#

then after that, you get interview with more specialized people that can appreciate your coding skills

#

as a tech artist, you definitely need to show your work

ocean dragon Aug 19, 2020, 9:20 PM

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@marsh stream I know this is a couple days old but if you actually feel you meet the requirements for multiple roles there's no harm applying for each, you have nothing to lose, and generally it isn't perceived negatively.

You could also submit a Speculative application?

ashen lynx Aug 19, 2020, 10:27 PM

#

Is that a good idea to make portfolio website using Github Pages? No.

ocean dragon Aug 19, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

people who don't want it to be opened by anyone in the recruitment field

quaint aspen Aug 20, 2020, 1:20 AM

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Is there a ArtStation equivalent for game audio? Asking for a friend (yes actually asking for a friend 😄)

marsh stream Aug 20, 2020, 4:51 AM

#

@marsh stream I know this is a couple days old but if you actually feel you meet the requirements for multiple roles there's no harm applying for each, you have nothing to lose, and generally it isn't perceived negatively.

You could also submit a Speculative application?
@ocean dragon Yeah true. Speculative Applications just feel like a waste of time : / for both parties but again as you said no hard in applying . Thanks 👍

marsh stream Aug 20, 2020, 10:43 AM

#

I've been looking at several job openings for Level Design and Testing. For both disciplines it seems knowledge in LUA scripting is usually a must or at least a big bonus. I see this mainly with ubisoft and other game companies (though not as large but medium sized). I guess i wanted to ask if this is something that is growing in demand or whether LUA is only used by specific companies as I dont want to generalize and put time into learning it if it doesn't have great value on my CV

hybrid phoenix Aug 20, 2020, 10:45 AM

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Lua is definitely a common language for scripting tools used by level designers and such. Sometimes you'll get visual scripting tools, and Python and such are also starting to creep in a bit, but I think the vast majority of LD-related scripting in the industry will still be Lua for a while

elder mist Aug 20, 2020, 1:14 PM

#

@marsh stream if you want to learn LUA get PICO8

marsh stream Aug 20, 2020, 1:26 PM

#

Lua is definitely a common language for scripting tools used by level designers and such. Sometimes you'll get visual scripting tools, and Python and such are also starting to creep in a bit, but I think the vast majority of LD-related scripting in the industry will still be Lua for a while
@hybrid phoenix Yeah alright seems like a worthwhile investment to learn LUA

#

@marsh stream if you want to learn LUA get PICO8
@elder mist oo nice. i will check this out thanks

plucky hatch Aug 21, 2020, 6:16 AM

#

How i can Ask for talent here ? is theer any Restriction on " how to" ?It looks like normal Chat , right ?

#

Im looking hardly for an Blueprint Artist or Talent who has experienced eye looking for an issue i dont see. I followed server times the same Tutorial to Set up Minions+Waves+Waypoints. but the Minions just walking one direction and Ignoring the Waypoints i set. Maybe You can watch over Teamviewer or something to fix this . As i said, for an experienced eye its maximum 10 min of work. its no that complex yet. But im absolu noob in this and dont know. Thnaks reading this. if this post is wrong, be kind at me. thanks all

mystic hull Aug 21, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

#looking-for-talent

#

You can read the guide up there

#

📎 unknown.png

silk token Aug 21, 2020, 7:57 AM

#

Anyone have experience with TopTal here? They've been recruiting freelance UE4 developers and I'm currently in the process with them, but it all feels a bit fishy.

compact forge Aug 21, 2020, 8:21 AM

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hey hi looking for a job as a Designer/Level Designer I am alright with unreal

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0jxgnq05rg&t=8s

YouTube

Lip

Opaldune Team: Zombie game has Saving and Loading fully implemented!

Hey! Just excited to show what we have done for Opaldune! A space horror psychological game. Look forward to seeing you guys again.

This update is for those who follow us please share and like the video. Thanks again for the time see you next update!

If you like us please...

▶ Play video

#

I'm the sole programmer and designer of this project

hybrid phoenix Aug 21, 2020, 8:32 AM

#

Wrong place and not a great pitch

compact forge Aug 21, 2020, 8:34 AM

#

so

#

whats the right place

#

and what do you think is a great pitch?

#

thank you

hybrid phoenix Aug 21, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

Well, "I am alright" is not very encouraging

compact forge Aug 21, 2020, 8:35 AM

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sorry I'm Asian

hybrid phoenix Aug 21, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

But #looking-for-work

compact forge Aug 21, 2020, 8:36 AM

#

I don't like to sell myself too much

hybrid phoenix Aug 21, 2020, 8:36 AM

#

Read the pinned messages or #more-resources for info on how to use that

compact forge Aug 21, 2020, 8:36 AM

#

but thank you will keep that in mind

#

got it thanks

#

🙂

trail leaf Aug 21, 2020, 9:12 AM

#

@compact forge You got to hustle these days.

compact forge Aug 21, 2020, 9:14 AM

#

yeah thanks I know that. I'll try to sell it more

#

always found it difficult to do so. I more comfortable just working quietly on my portfolio then putting it up. I'm kinda the quiet type being grom an asian background just makes me all the more on the quiet side

#

@trail leaf Thanks though

#

please have a look at my video and link

trail leaf Aug 21, 2020, 9:17 AM

#

Put it this way.

#

A bad portfolio with no hustle is hard to get heard

#

A good portfolio with no hustle will get less eye balls than a bad portfolio with hustle

#

It is sad, I agree. But that's the way things are :(

quaint aspen Aug 21, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

Sell yourself by focusing on hard facts if that’s what you are comfortable with. List what you did/know what to do and start ticking off boxes you know matter. Then show concrete proof of that. There’s nothing in this video or the description to help someone really understand your capabilities. You say you programmed this? Explain if that was Blueprint or C++. Is the art yours? If not briefly explain the pipeline you had to put together to make the art production ready. Why focus only on save and load? List all the systems you had to build yourself to make this happen. What were the most important decisions you made when building this level? Get into your decision making process so we know you approached this deliberately with specific intents and did not just slap stuff together.

steel creek Aug 21, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

The sad fact of reality is, unless you're willing to sell your talent and what you can do, there isn't going to be anybody buying it. Nor really should they be.

#

This is the part of the class where you have to actually show your work.

ripe comet Aug 21, 2020, 6:47 PM

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Any reason not to make a portfolio website on GitHub Pages? AFAIK GitHub Pages functions just serves simple HTML pages and other files

#

So in theory you could just put whatever you want there?

honest cipher Aug 21, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

portfolio in github pages works great

#

its one of the things i do

ripe comet Aug 21, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

Is that a good idea to make portfolio website using Github Pages? No.
Deathrey

Ah, I saw this and wondered if there was some kind of reason, because I am currently hosting my portfolio on Github Pages 😅

ashen lynx Aug 21, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

That statement applies specifically to technical artist, who asked initial question.

ripe comet Aug 21, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

Ah I see

#

Sorry about the tag btw, I hit quote and didn't realize it was going to automatically apply it

ashen lynx Aug 21, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

that is most perfectly fine.

hybrid phoenix Aug 21, 2020, 8:47 PM

#

Nope, perfectly reasonable, you dodged a bullet

nova tartan Aug 21, 2020, 9:40 PM

#

I would probably block someone who said that on the spot

trail leaf Aug 22, 2020, 12:54 AM

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Dodged a bullet imho.

#

Happens all the time.

#

But... but... think of the exposure!

#

I might not be like that this time, but you always get people like that.

#

One of my team members got yelled at by a guy who didn't understand why we wouldn't make his game idea because his game idea was the next big thing and he'd be willing to share it with us if only we paid for his time and pay for the entire development ... but we'd be so rich afterwards because it was the next big thing!

quaint aspen Aug 22, 2020, 2:41 AM

#

r/choosingbeggars

scenic moon Aug 22, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

<@&213101288538374145>

north narwhal Aug 22, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

handled

scenic moon Aug 22, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

@north narwhal consider filing a report with discord trust and safety for violation discord TOS
https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000029731

north narwhal Aug 22, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

i reported it with the ban

heady nimbus Aug 23, 2020, 2:32 AM

#

What if I told you I never got a job in the industry. I made mine. Life gave me lemons and I gave e'm back.

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 3:50 AM

#

I'm broke as fuck right now after the death of my Bearded dragon. I had to pay for her vet bills and cremation. Feeling pretty shitty. Not sure how to pull myself out of this asap, I keep looking for jobs that apply to me but I can't find many.

#

I work for two studios, but none of them are paying me fast enough or enough money to pull myself out of this.

#

Anyone know where I could quickly do some work asap as a creature modeler/sculptor?

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:42 AM

#

@magic fable what is the link to your portfollio?

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:44 AM

#

@merry tartan It's barely constructed because I started making it last night and there's not much examples of recent work there besides my latest upload, but here it is. I'm kinda embarrassed to show it because there's only the Vendigo and a less recent model they allowed me to show.
https://www.artstation.com/callieigarashi

ArtStation

Callie C

Freelance 3D creature modeler

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

@magic fable I would add that link to your discord account and remove the twitter link, do you have more? drawings, 2D, things you can post right now you have 2 items.

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

I have lots of other work I can show, however, not all of it is rendered nicely and it's mostly just screenshots.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

yeah you get about 10-20 seconds

#

I would spend some time getting more in there, if you have animations of your models or rigging or drawing anything you can show that shows your skill set.

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

I have basic rigging skills, but I have lots of skills in modeling and sculpting

#

I can't animate very well

#

I'm trying to get more stuff on there. But there's not much I can show that's rendered.

#

I have at least 3 other models I can show, but none of them are rendered.

#

All they have is screenshots.

#

Those are gorgeous portfolios.

#

I have so many models I can't show yet, sadly

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:52 AM

#

well my buddy has worked for Blizzard and ILM etc he is a true artist I was a level designer / producer who learned more art you can see a big difference he is a real artist

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:52 AM

#

I have my Tyrannosaurus model that I'm using as a pfp on Artstation, it's very impressive, but I can't upload the render for it yet because they told me to wait.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:52 AM

#

I worked for dreamworks but most of my work is techinical

#

yeah well wait on that but prep it you can get it ready

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

I'm 18 so I got started on my serious carreer about over a year ago haha

#

So I don't have much experience

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

If they paid you all the money they owe you and they arent giving you more work then use what you got to get more

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

But I need to work fast, because I'm slowly sinking financially

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

yeah everyone has been in that spot

#

I wrote up something from my 32 years of experience might be helpful let me find the link

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:54 AM

#

I'm a hard worker so I don't mind working more. It's my passion and I enjoy it.

#

Ohh that sounds cool.

#

I'm reading the first bits. I'm honestly not ready to openly offer my exact location or name like that, sadly. I have my reasons, but I am transparent when doing business, just not when I'm doing public stuff.

#

When I was 13 I was forced into a sexual relationship via blackmail with my information, so I'm very sketchy on showing my info like that. I feel guys have less trouble with this, though.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

yeah people dont need to know that

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

But once I see that a business is serious and keeping stuff like that undisclosed, I have no problem.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

you want to appear as normal and safe and trust worthy as possible

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

Yeah

#

It's just an issue for me

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

I am not asking for any of your information

#

nor should anyone else

#

you have to protect youself

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

Artstation really wanted to know my full name and my location, sadly I had to shorten it, etc

#

I'm okay with being transparent in business but in the artist world people seem to want to know who you are right away. That's a problem for me.

spice dagger Aug 23, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

If you want to protect personal information, create a Company and operate your dealings via it instead.

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

That's exactly what I've been wanting to do

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

yep that is a good idea

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

I'm gonna be trying on Monday

spice dagger Aug 23, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

Contact an Accountant about setting up a Company.

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

However I have no experience, still trying to figure out how all of that works

#

I'm still very young haha

spice dagger Aug 23, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

It is not difficult to do in my country, so obviously you will also have to take into account your own countries laws etc

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

create a delware corp you can do it online for cheap

spice dagger Aug 23, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

An Accountant will help explain the process

#

And give you advice on how to operate etc

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:02 AM

#

Yeah, there's a place here I can do it at, sadly they're closed until Monday but I need to go do that

#

I plan to make my paypal into a business one too

#

That way it doesn't give away all my personal shit

spice dagger Aug 23, 2020, 7:03 AM

#

If you make a Company, you would not convert your personal Paypal into a Buisness one, you should make a new Paypal account for the Company specifically.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 7:03 AM

#

I would get more content in your portfolio - try to show as many styles as possible

spice dagger Aug 23, 2020, 7:03 AM

#

If you make a Company, you should always keep personal accounts away from it as much as possible, setup a Company bank account, a Company email etc etc

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:04 AM

#

I'll discuss with the lead dev of the main game I work for what I can create renders for and show off. I'm good at character renders.

#

I seriously feel tiny compared to big people who have been in this industry for years. I've only been in this industry since last year.

#

But I've been doing 3D since a little kid

spice dagger Aug 23, 2020, 7:06 AM

#

Its a new experience for you, you cannot expect to instantly know everything (it would be a mistake to assume that) you will learn over time.

#

Experience comes with time.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 7:07 AM

#

now I know all of us have a lot more stuff but everyone posts enough to give people something to look at in the time we know we take to look at others peoples stuff and then dont bother too much

#

like I know Dante has 1000's of sketches he has done over the decades, but this is all he is showing

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:12 AM

#

I wanna make everything official. I just feel iffy about posting just screenshots.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 7:13 AM

#

seek out peoples profiles on that site and find people you look up to and try to match what they are doing as far as what they are showing and how they are showing it

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

But if you think it's right, I can definitely do it haha.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

you are in a competition for work - fight with everything you have.

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

That's true.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 7:15 AM

#

some people who are your friends wont want to see you doing better then them - others will try to help you even when they are down - humans.

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:17 AM

#

I have no close friends working in this industry, sadly. In fact, I think that's a problem.

#

I don't know many other people doing what I do seriously

#

I have artist friends doing hobbyist work. No people like me doing it seriously.

silk token Aug 23, 2020, 7:19 AM

#

I'm pretty sure there are people who like you

#

Or wait I read that wrong

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 7:19 AM

#

well you will find those people as time goes on, helps getting full time jobs at studios you meet a lot of people, some people will move with leaders from place to place for many years

#

same group of people from the bond team at EA then became the dead space team then became sledge hammer now 2k studios over 20+ years same with the IW guys

#

2015 > IW > Respawn

#

you want to build up trust with people and protect that trust

#

biggest thing to earn is trust from others that you are solid and can do the job every time they give you a chance to do it.

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:37 AM

#

The people at my main studio love me, and it's already scored me another job at another studio

#

So what you're saying is very, very true

#

I just discussed with one of the lead devs and they gave me the go for some more stuff I can show. I'm hoping that helps.

#

because I seriously need some work to do asap

#

Even if it's one-time stuff

magic fable Aug 23, 2020, 7:57 AM

#

Thank you for the advice.

merry tartan Aug 23, 2020, 6:11 PM

#

@magic fable Good - one thing that is a duel edged sword is telling the truth. Some people love it others hate it. I have learned to temper it since I started when I was 19 and didn't know much about anything, (not much progress over the decades) but if you tell someone hey I need money I am going broke working for you if you cant give me more work people will understand and most will try to help you.

plucky hatch Aug 24, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

Hey there! I'm really uncertain where to ask this but I think that here probably fits? I currently work as a web developer at the moment but I'm interested in game programming on the side / potentially becoming one? There's a couple things which I'd appreciate some insight on though.

For starters - because the specific thing that I'd like to do would be engine programming or implementing and optimizing behavior of players, enemy AI, UI etc. - what should I even be learning in unreal? I've been trying to hone in the fundamentals of blueprints but after that I'm a bit lost on what to do beyond trying to create / replicate game features. Is there anything else I should look into?

nova tartan Aug 24, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

If you want to be a professional coder in the industry, learning how to program unreal functionality in C++ is much more sought after than blueprints

steel creek Aug 24, 2020, 9:27 PM

#

You may need focus here as well. You say you want to program engine(s) OR optimize behaviors/AI. Those are not really in the same area, except for "programming".

Engine programming is a very deep subject that covers concepts like DA graphs, geometry space math, more heavily geared for "graphics" programming --- along with --- a standard heavy dose of structures and algorithms based around other types of tree graphs for storage and memory manipulation.

Behavior programming can certainly overlap in concept(s), but wont really in practice (minus graph theory), and most of that can actually be done in pseudo-code aka blueprints, script language, etc...

If you truly are interested in game engines (also GRAPHICS engines), I recommend "Game Engine Architecture" by Jason Gregory. Its a thick read, but if you are maths savvy, and not afraid to do things you dont fully yet understand, its a solid foundation. If you are a maths person to start, I would also get "Foundations of Game Engine Development" by Eric Lengyel.

Both are excellent, even if you never end up doing any application of the theory. It is a solid understanding of modern game/graphics engine architectures.

mystic hull Aug 24, 2020, 9:29 PM

#

Can't stress enough the books part, if you really want to get down and dirty on game making.
Scripting gameplay using tutorials and generally available docs is one thing, solving an actual unsolved problem is an entirely different thing.

#

That goes for all specialties obviously, the gist of it is whatever you decide to specialize in, get good at it fundementally, rather than superficially

plucky hatch Aug 25, 2020, 12:26 AM

#

noted, thank you all for the insight!

marsh stream Aug 25, 2020, 12:49 PM

#

Just saw a Job post for Junior Game Designer and it stated you need minimum 3 years of industry experience. After 3 years of industrial experience, arent u considered intermediate?

flat gazelle Aug 25, 2020, 1:02 PM

#

Depends on the company structure, but yeah after 3 years you should start looking at transitioning.

hazy hedge Aug 25, 2020, 11:42 PM

#

what would you call someone who works with UE4 for non-game related stuff? like, if someone develops arch viz, simulators, product visualizers, etc. Game developer doesn't seem right to use there.

craggy nacelle Aug 25, 2020, 11:47 PM

#

simulation developer?

hazy hedge Aug 25, 2020, 11:49 PM

#

ehh that doesnt quite capture the visualization stuff

#

closest i feel is 3D Developer but that seems lame

#

3D Systems Developer maybe? lol, not sure

fickle hatch Aug 25, 2020, 11:51 PM

#

@hazy hedge what are the actual responsibilities of the job

#

Like, the specific actions you do during the day

ashen lynx Aug 25, 2020, 11:54 PM

#

Simulator of simulations.

hazy hedge Aug 25, 2020, 11:54 PM

#

im kind of the generalist, i do 3d modeling, texturing, sound, but mostly i code. the projects are always different, but usually for visualizing products or real estate (VR Arch Viz walkthroughs for example) or simple product showcases, stuff like that

craggy nacelle Aug 25, 2020, 11:55 PM

#

you could probably just say "architectural and product visualization / simulation developer" or something

#

if you want it to communicate those things

hazy hedge Aug 25, 2020, 11:55 PM

#

a little wordy but it definitely captures everything

craggy nacelle Aug 25, 2020, 11:56 PM

#

ultimately a title is kind of meaningless unless it communicates what you want it to communicate :)

hazy hedge Aug 25, 2020, 11:56 PM

#

very true! i suppose i'll go with your idea then, its a good point

trail leaf Aug 25, 2020, 11:59 PM

#

@marsh stream It depends what that experience is comprised of, but sometimes job postings are BS

#

There are a lot of things going on, but a lot of job postings are also "fake"

marsh stream Aug 26, 2020, 4:27 AM

#

@marsh stream It depends what that experience is comprised of, but sometimes job postings are BS
@trail leaf Yeah the surprising thing is its also from a highly reputable company . But yeah i guess it depends what they define as 'experience'

remote forum Aug 26, 2020, 9:04 AM

#

Archetype Initiator

#

anyone willing to volunteer fraction of awereness towards progress of human species?

fickle hatch Aug 26, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

@remote forum sure. But it sounds like maybe you want to DM 😄

wild herald Aug 27, 2020, 7:53 AM

#

who wants to take me as an apprentice? 🤣 i want to learn level designing and game designing from someone who has experience in the gaming industry haha anyone? haha

#

https://tenor.com/view/teach-me-doctor-strange-benedict-cumberbatch-gif-8215241

Tenor

teach me

▶ Play video

undone wraith Aug 27, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

Has anyone ever been asked to sign a non-compete as an independent contractor?

mystic hull Aug 27, 2020, 9:26 PM

#

I had not gotten to the part where I actually signed it, but yes quite a few jobs I'd applied to during freelance had non-compete & copyright requirements

undone wraith Aug 27, 2020, 9:27 PM

#

I've only ever been asked as an employee, so this is new

mystic hull Aug 27, 2020, 9:27 PM

#

The definition is broad really, in my case it was just "don't steal the idea, give it your own touch and sell it right after you leave us"

undone wraith Aug 27, 2020, 9:28 PM

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This one puts a restriction on my ability to create any similar app for any other company, but it doesn't provide any upside for me, no guarantee of future business.

mystic hull Aug 27, 2020, 9:28 PM

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Nah that sounds fishy

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I was never asked to do such a thing, it was all specific to the specific IP or project I worked on

undone wraith Aug 27, 2020, 9:29 PM

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I can see they don't want me to run to a competitor and help them to market with a better product, but seems this isn't the way to go about it

mystic hull Aug 27, 2020, 9:30 PM

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I think, there's a very fine line between running to a competitor and helping them with your experience, and running to a competitor and helping them with their own code, that you possibly wrote

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If it's not clear which they're referring to, or if it's the former, I would not sign

undone wraith Aug 27, 2020, 9:31 PM

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Totally, it's clear that all code assets belong to them

mystic hull Aug 27, 2020, 9:31 PM

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I don't think it's legal to even require such a thing, as not helping other companies build similiar products, so long as you don't use any of their assets

undone wraith Aug 27, 2020, 9:32 PM

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In a way it seems it is putting a restriction on my livelihood

mystic hull Aug 27, 2020, 9:32 PM

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Quite the red flag 😛

undone wraith Aug 27, 2020, 9:32 PM

#

lol, thanks for the 2nd opinion

#

I found this pretty relevant guidance on non-compete agreements:

The consideration requirement means that your employee must receive something of value from you in return for the post-employment restriction. In other words, in exchange for the employee's promise not to work in certain areas or for certain companies for a period of time, you must give the employee something of value. The consideration need not be a monetary payment, and can be in the form of a promotion or additional benefits or initially hiring the employee. Courts have consistently held that if the non-compete agreement is signed at the beginning of employment, the new job is adequate consideration.

However, if an existing employee is asked to enter into the agreement during employment, the agreement will not be enforceable if the employee does not receive some new consideration from you.

In instances where a business is sold and the employee of the seller becomes an employee of the buyer and is then asked to sign a non-compete agreement, depending on the type of business transfer, new consideration may be required to create an enforceable non-compete agreement with the new owner.

trail leaf Aug 28, 2020, 6:23 AM

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@undone wraith I would not sign this.

supple timber Aug 28, 2020, 8:04 AM

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YESSS i got accepted into uni

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lets gooo

nova tartan Aug 28, 2020, 12:10 PM

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Congrats

undone wraith Aug 28, 2020, 8:03 PM

#

Thanks for advices on non-compete's everyone. We negotiated it out of the contract. In my research I found something that might be of interest to some. If you are in the US, the state of Washington recently passed a bill that puts a minimum threshold on salary requirements for a non-compete to be considered valid.

For independent contractors, if they are paid less than 250k/year then the non-compete is nullified. For employees it's 100k/year. It sounds like Washington DC is also trying to integrate something like this. Obviously it depends what state your contract is executed in but this just shows the recognition that non-competes skew heavily in favor of the employer and it's a good talking point.

hallow dove Aug 28, 2020, 9:02 PM

#

Any advice on how to go about cracking into the field as a self taught developer. Seems now a days atleast most of the game dev jobs in my area require a bachelors degree or you being currently enrolled in school for a related field. Not everyone has the opportunity to go to college. But still has the determination and grind of those who do. Any advice would be appreciated thanks. 🙏

trail leaf Aug 28, 2020, 10:32 PM

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@hallow dove Experience and shipped titles.

sullen cloud Aug 29, 2020, 3:22 AM

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anyone know any US Unreal studios that have decided to change to remote work permanently due to covid?

hybrid kernel Aug 29, 2020, 12:15 PM

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@trail leaf but how to get experience and shipped titles when nobody hires you? I am self taught and went a year to a school for games. All in all I am still jobless....

trail leaf Aug 29, 2020, 12:45 PM

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I shipped my own games to kick start my career.

hybrid kernel Aug 29, 2020, 12:52 PM

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I programmed a web app. but my pc died in the mean time and now I could not finish it. My plan was to use this for application purposes. But this changed and I started an Indiegogo yesterday but without success till now :(

nova tartan Aug 29, 2020, 4:07 PM

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I would be very surprised if any place decided to do permanent remote work.
You lose a lot of hard to measure benefits when people aren't talking face to face and near eachother.

sullen cloud Aug 29, 2020, 5:56 PM

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facebook and twitter have moved to permanet remote so I would imagine there are others doing the same

craggy nacelle Aug 29, 2020, 6:30 PM

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Hard to say about gamedev stuff but my B2B software dev dayjob's been remote from day 1 :)

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I think losing some benefits from face to face comms is a valid point, but also something that can be fixed at least in my experience

#

remote requires much more proactive communication

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folks who aren't familiar with that style of work may need some gentle prodding to get into that :)

hallow dove Aug 29, 2020, 7:58 PM

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Something I always wondered as I continue to work on solo project in hopes of getting a career in the future. But making projects im mainly just using blueprints with some small amounts of c++ native. Would it be more beneficial for the sake of getting a job to just not use blueprints and focus more on c++ native?

nova tartan Aug 29, 2020, 7:59 PM

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Yes

hallow dove Aug 29, 2020, 8:01 PM

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I'll start shifting my focus. Appreciate it.

vivid pivot Aug 29, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Depending on you wanting to get a job as a programmer yes 😉

trail leaf Aug 30, 2020, 8:40 AM

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Personally, I think shipping projects is way more useful than just learning general programming stuff

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Shipping projects is hard and it's too tempting to just learn stuff for the fun of it

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Where as shipping teaches you where and what to do.

#

Permanent remote is much worse than face to face

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There's something about being in the same room with different disciplines that bring about really interesting conversations

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Being in a single Zoom chat isn't the same thing because it just becomes chaos as everyone is trying to talk, waiting for other people to finish talking etc

marsh stream Aug 30, 2020, 10:23 AM

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Shipping projects is hard and it's too tempting to just learn stuff for the fun of it
@trail leaf Its taken me 2 years to realize this, I just started a project 3 weeks ago with this idea in mind. Wish I had focused more on it earlier.

trail leaf Aug 30, 2020, 10:56 AM

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It happens, I guess psychologically we justify learning stuff because it's fun.

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Until the reality hits that shipping is what's important.

marsh stream Aug 30, 2020, 11:48 AM

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Yeah very true. Its fun, easy and just makes you feel super super productive.
Its a trap
Learning through shipping projects is what I want to do from now on 👍

remote forum Aug 31, 2020, 8:41 AM

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@trail leaf @marsh stream noob here, Copy pasted my way through.. I managed to make app for my artworks.. ask you about game, if you publish it, do you have to purchase advertisement campaigns?

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people wount just find it

trail leaf Aug 31, 2020, 8:58 AM

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You have to do some thing to make people aware of it.

#

Advertising might not be the answer,but maybe it is.

craggy nacelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:16 AM

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^key with advertising is usually figuring out how much it costs you to acquire a new user

#

let's say for sake of example that you spend $20 on advertising and you get one user out of it... This is how much it costs you to acquire one user

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in a game which costs $30, that could be an acceptable cost.. but if your game costs $5, it probably isn't

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this is simplifying the issue by quite a lot though - there's a million things that can affect how effective an advertisement is

hybrid phoenix Aug 31, 2020, 9:20 AM

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And then at the same time $-25/user can be worth it in some cases if all you need is growth, and you can afford to acquire it like that, because you have methods to translate those new users into more value down the line

craggy nacelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:27 AM

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I'd say best thing you can do is start collecting people's email addresses as early as you can

wicked hazel Aug 31, 2020, 9:27 AM

#

Anyone
can u please teach me simple texturing
it's just buggine me here
please
we can interact on zoom meeting

craggy nacelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:27 AM

#

If you can get people to give you their email address you now have a direct line to send them updates about your game :)

wicked hazel Aug 31, 2020, 9:27 AM

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@craggy nacelle
Bruh can you help me out please

craggy nacelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:28 AM

#

you should ask on #graphics

wicked hazel Aug 31, 2020, 9:28 AM

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it's just 5 min work

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@craggy nacelle Bruh help me out

craggy nacelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:29 AM

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Pay me

wicked hazel Aug 31, 2020, 9:29 AM

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Bruh.....i am not making a project...i am learning

craggy nacelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:29 AM

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And what makes you think that I know anything about textures?

wicked hazel Aug 31, 2020, 9:29 AM

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Is u a NOOB

#

i mean.....my problem is....

flat gazelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:30 AM

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Seeing as we are in career chat. What you are doing right now, is career suicide.

craggy nacelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:30 AM

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lol

wicked hazel Aug 31, 2020, 9:30 AM

#

how to lke make surfaces look 3d.

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@flat gazelle Whaa u mean ?
I am learning ?....is learning bad ?

craggy nacelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:30 AM

#

look, you should just ask on #graphics , this is the wrong channel for that topic

wicked hazel Aug 31, 2020, 9:31 AM

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ok

#

fyn

flat gazelle Aug 31, 2020, 9:32 AM

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Learning is great! Demanding free mentoring and then calling people noob when rejected, is not.

hybrid kernel Aug 31, 2020, 11:08 AM

#

I searching for a paid junior position. I am half a programmer and half a artist. Do I have to be able to model a high poly car as a junior? And are there better positions to apply with my knowledge then as a 3D/tech artist?

nova tartan Aug 31, 2020, 1:15 PM

#

You will have to be able to contribute meaningfully to anyone who hires you. Tech artist is probably the right job to apply for to mix programming and art, but you will need your work to be of professional quality. No one will want to hire an artist who's art isn't good enough to make it into the game or who's code is poor quality. Even as a junior you will be expected to produce work that makes it into the final product. You have to make them want to hire you somehow.

tawdry musk Sep 1, 2020, 5:13 PM

#

Hi

#

Im gonna get a laptop in a week
I m planning to make a stealth game for mobile like watch dogs and assissains creed

#

Can anybody wish me good luck

formal mango Sep 1, 2020, 6:01 PM

#

Can anybody wish me good luck
@tawdry musk Good luck.

proud pecan Sep 1, 2020, 6:19 PM

#

Im gonna get a laptop in a week
I m planning to make a stealth game for mobile like watch dogs and assissains creed
Good luck

unkempt bay Sep 2, 2020, 3:55 AM

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Hey. I’m 14, and want to pursue a career in game mechanics, realistic, and a little level design. I do blueprints, for about 2 years now, and working on my own game currently. Any tips to continue and do much more later on in life

trail leaf Sep 2, 2020, 4:44 AM

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@unkempt bay My recommendation is to just keep making things, show what you've made off and you'll be on the right path

craggy nacelle Sep 2, 2020, 5:47 AM

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^this pretty much, if you enjoy programming and making stuff, just keep doing that and you'll be good

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I started around that age and I pretty much was just doing all sorts of random projects that I found interesting and I've never had any problems landing work :)

wary idol Sep 2, 2020, 7:29 AM

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^ 100% true
Been doing programming for almost 10 years, started messing around with it when I was 10

plucky hatch Sep 2, 2020, 12:27 PM

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I found this today - https://www.edx.org/professional-certificate/harvardx-computer-science-for-game-development. It's not for Unreal but when we consider entry-level candidates in our company, it would definitely help them stand out. The individual courses are also free, you only pay if you want the certificate. I think the compsci course alone is 3 months and the certificate is something like $100 usd (haven't done the conversion).

#

Just came here to say this. Peace.

lilac walrus Sep 2, 2020, 12:54 PM

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that one doesn't look terrible, but in all honestly I would hold it in particularly high esteem since that certificate is essentially awarded for participation

plucky hatch Sep 2, 2020, 1:02 PM

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And yet a strong majority of our candidates show no interest in the field they are applying to work in on their resumes. Maybe they just don't hold these certificates in high esteem.

#

Besides, every course gives an award for participation if you pass the test. :p

lilac walrus Sep 2, 2020, 1:04 PM

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aye, but this one doesn't have a test

#

it's an ungraded certificate

#

(some of the other Edx certificates are graded)

#

I would usually expect such a resume to talk about their relevant experience and things they've done - if none of that is professional, it should talk about hobbyist stuff etc

#

if the only thing on it is a participation certificate, it doesn't tell me anything more than saying they completed a Udemy course

plucky hatch Sep 2, 2020, 1:06 PM

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Re: course - "Students who earn a satisfactory score on 9 problem sets (i.e., programming assignments) and a final project are eligible for a certificate."

lilac walrus Sep 2, 2020, 1:06 PM

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IMHO, that's a decent course if you want to actually learn something by the looks of it, but I'm not sure I'd put it on a CV

#

hm, it says it has the "Professional Certificate', which is not their graded certificate

#

the other one is the 'Verified Certificate'

#

ah no, they have three certificates now, this is my mistake

plucky hatch Sep 2, 2020, 1:08 PM

#

Well, if you'd like to not put in on your CV, that's cool, it's your choice. From the other side of this matter, when we receive CVs that have odd jobs here and there and a promise to learn on the job with no signs of a drive for learning... I have to say I vote no on these. But that's just my personal opinion.

#

We have other board members. Which also generally vote no.

lilac walrus Sep 2, 2020, 1:08 PM

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I wouldn't hire those, certificate or not

#

to be fair, I'll also not hire people with relevant degrees if their CV & application is missing evidence of practical application of knowledge

plucky hatch Sep 2, 2020, 1:11 PM

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This is a course for entry-level people. I think there are two types of people who are entry-level. Those who are entry-level because they want to be a part of this industry but have never invested anything towards that end - they are stuck in the entry-level for years, and those who rush through the entry-level quite quickly because they train themselves. Whether it's a certificate like this that gives the person a boost in their training, or a steady improvement in their portfolio over time - these are strong indicators that they will be one of the latter.

#

And probably the biggest reason we say no is when we see from a resume that they look like one of the former.

#

Just 90% of the resumes immediately go out. We may get in touch sometimes to ask a few questions and see if they are learning or applying themselves, but it's almost always the same "I wanted to make video games since I was a child", "I don't know what I will do in 1 year, I would like to learn a lot about games", "Why yes I have been in this industry for many years".

#

More power to those people as it is their preference which is absolutely respected without question. They just can't be a part of an efficient team in our experience.

lilac walrus Sep 2, 2020, 1:19 PM

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I think we interview less than 5% of our applicants, but I don't know how true that is across all disciplines

plucky hatch Sep 2, 2020, 1:20 PM

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Probably about 5% as well in Community Management, Level Design, Game Design.

#

Just off the top of my head.

honest cipher Sep 2, 2020, 1:41 PM

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that course looks incredibly barebones

#

tho it will be useful for people who like to self-train in programming, as it probably does stuff related to algorithms and data structures and math, which is important

hardy river Sep 4, 2020, 12:56 PM

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Hi! I'm a college under-grad and have 2 years more left to complete my degree. I have been learning UE4 in my spare time for the past year so haven't learnt much but I am comfortable moving around the engine and looking at the source code to understand a certain part, if required. I'm inclined towards the C++ part of the engine although I would consider myself an absolute beginner in it. For my college project I want to make something using UE4 (will get about a year to complete it) but the prof won't accept the proposal if it is not related to safety, data analytics (ML/AI) or the manufacturing industry.

I just want to know how can we use unreal engine for industrial solutions. Are there people here who use UE other than in gaming or media industry? Or how can the above mentioned topics are or can be used with UE in gaming or media industry. Would be really helpful if you can give some ideas or point me towards the right direction. I have tried googling but haven't got much success. I'm supposed to work solo so won't be able to take on big projects like the projects in the Epic games site.

It would also be really helpful if you can discuss about the opportunities if I pursue this instead of using UE for game-dev.

ashen lynx Sep 4, 2020, 1:04 PM

#

Are there people here who use UE other than in gaming or media industry A handful. I'm supposed to work solo so won't be able to take on big projects like the projects in the Epic games site. For you, it would be pretty straight forward. In your graduation work, take any field. Investigate how Unreal Engine could be applied there. Back up claims with theory and practical demonstration. You are done. If executed on a good level, that would easily score a good job for you. @hardy river

hybrid phoenix Sep 4, 2020, 1:13 PM

#

ML/AI can definitely be applied within gamedev context, i.e. for stuff like procedural animation

hardy river Sep 4, 2020, 1:35 PM

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A handful
@ashen lynx Hope I can get them to discuss all the possibilities with them. Thanks for the tip! Looks like I will have to research other fields before I get into UE.
@hybrid phoenix Can you give some good links? Thanks a lot!
Btw, looked at some videos and it looks really good. I always found it exhausting connecting several anim BPs and the character's motion never looked natural or fluidic.

hybrid phoenix Sep 4, 2020, 1:36 PM

#

What looks really good? ML/AI Animation?

hardy river Sep 4, 2020, 1:43 PM

#

Yeah, Procedural animation.
I was looking at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6NDxBL33CU
and the 1st video of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKDzm8KgPP0&feature=youtu.be&t=9

YouTube

CodeLikeMe

Procedural Movement Animations System for 4 legged characters - Part 1

Project Files : https://www.patreon.com/posts/38270584
In this tutorial, I am going to create a procedural animation system for 4 legged characters to adapt their movement animations to the slope of the ground easily. Same method can be applied to any 4 legged character such a...

▶ Play video

YouTube

GameDevHQ

BEST OF MADE WITH UNITY #36 - Week of September 5, 2019

SUBSCRIBE for More Unity Tutorials! ► https://bit.ly/2EqewxV

Discord ►► https://discord.gg/Sk4M3Y3

GameDevHQ ►► https://gamedevhq.com

Here is a list of the top content made with unity for the week of September 5, 2019. This is a short list of some of the coolest thi...

▶ Play video

#

Sorry for including an unity vid. XD

plucky hatch Sep 4, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

Hi

#

I was recommended here by someone

#

I guess I wanted to ask as to where I can ask to pitch something to get some Unreal Programmer's interested in helping out?

mystic hull Sep 5, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

#looking-for-talent is your go-to channel for that kind of stuff

void hawk Sep 6, 2020, 8:05 AM

#

Someone speak spanish

calm shard Sep 6, 2020, 3:49 PM

#

Someone speak spanish
@void hawk yes

flint beacon Sep 6, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

how can i create a listing in looking for talent?

plucky hatch Sep 6, 2020, 5:29 PM

#

How do i find a team? im looking for one.

vocal lagoon Sep 6, 2020, 5:51 PM

#

How do i find a team? im looking for one.
@plucky hatch #looking-for-talent

#

how can i create a listing in looking for talent?
@flint beacon read the pinned message in looking for talent

flint beacon Sep 6, 2020, 6:02 PM

#

@vocal lagoon where is the pinned message?

vocal lagoon Sep 6, 2020, 6:03 PM

#

@flint beacon

📎 pinned.PNG

void hawk Sep 6, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

@calm shard ok

#

Juegas free fire

calm shard Sep 6, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

@void hawk No mucho

void hawk Sep 6, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

O

#

Ya

plucky hatch Sep 7, 2020, 3:40 PM

#

I just want to know how can we use unreal engine for industrial solutions. Are there people here who use UE other than in gaming or media industry?
@hardy river

yes automotive. For vehicle simulation and self driving technologies. A lot of AI involved as well as behavior selection ( finite state machine, behavior trees). You can check out CARLA simulator, it is based on ue4 or also Microsoft Air Sim

silk token Sep 8, 2020, 6:27 AM

#

I've seen a company design training simulators for industrial applications with UE4 too

deep mountain Sep 8, 2020, 5:24 PM

#

Hi I am looking for a freelancer that is an unreal expert. Where is a good place to look?

vocal lagoon Sep 8, 2020, 5:57 PM

#

Hi I am looking for a freelancer that is an unreal expert. Where is a good place to look?
@deep mountain #looking-for-talent and look at the pinned message

deep mountain Sep 8, 2020, 5:59 PM

#

@vocal lagoon Thanks someone else mentioned that too

vocal lagoon Sep 8, 2020, 6:00 PM

#

np 🙂

fickle hatch Sep 8, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

@hardy river you can DM or highlight me if you want - my company is designing an industrial train simulator with UE4 for engineering purposes

plucky hatch Sep 8, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

how is this Carrer Bot working ? i wrote it like the pinned news but nothing happend, thanks

hidden river Sep 8, 2020, 8:27 PM

#

I'm looking for a job so I can find it

jaunty lagoon Sep 8, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

hey guys, any advise for a great Course for Unreal for Arch Viz? they offered me a paid course at the company I work with, I just need to find out the right one. My background is 3DSMax with Vray and Corona rendering

sour harbor Sep 10, 2020, 9:54 AM

#

I would like to one day work at a Japanese video game company for a Game Designer position

#

Mostly requires game engines like Unreal engine

lilac walrus Sep 10, 2020, 10:00 AM

#

Japanese companies have a strong tendency to use their own tools and engines

flint idol Sep 10, 2020, 10:13 AM

#

And their own people xD

#

Dont wanna crush your bubble, but youll need to be exceptional

craggy nacelle Sep 10, 2020, 10:45 AM

#

I wouldn't say it's that harsh... I know a guy from years back who studied game design and moved to Japan to get a job and got one. He was good but I don't know if "exceptional" really

trail leaf Sep 10, 2020, 2:12 PM

#

From memory, their salary bands are sometimes disappointingly low.

mystic hull Sep 10, 2020, 2:16 PM

#

From memory, their salary bands are sometimes disappointingly low.
This part is true, from my experience

#

never actually worked there though, just offers/applications

craggy nacelle Sep 10, 2020, 2:17 PM

#

Yeah I've heard similar stories, plus it can be hard as a foreigner in general for example to rent apartments and such... but it's one of those things you can deal with if it's really something you wanna pursue

trail leaf Sep 10, 2020, 2:21 PM

#

I remember Ghibli posting for artists

#

And in some cases, because they were based on Tokyo, you'd actually be on around minimum wage to work on one of their films

#

https://soranews24.com/2017/05/29/studio-ghibli-criticised-for-paying-low-salary-to-animators/

#

“Actually, 200,000 yen is higher than other animation companies in Japan.”
“Japanese animation you are enjoying is supported by movie guys with average annual income of 1.1 million yen (US$9,879) and monthly income of 90,000 yen.”
“Still you can live in Tokyo comfortably because that includes a lot of benefits from the government like healthcare and employment insurance.”

#

Some of that kool aid must be pretty good

#

If they offered royalties that might be a bit different though.

craggy nacelle Sep 10, 2020, 2:23 PM

#

I think it's sorta well known that animators are paid like shit and work terrible hours

sullen cloud Sep 10, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

how do you live in tokyo on $10k? do they provide housing or something

trail leaf Sep 10, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

In a shoe box

icy lion Sep 10, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

$10k in a shoe box? hmmm what the . that's rough man

lilac walrus Sep 10, 2020, 2:56 PM

#

that's working as a creative in Japan, unfortunately

sour harbor Sep 10, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

I heard some foreigners got some jobs at Nintendo of Japan

craggy nacelle Sep 10, 2020, 3:57 PM

#

I suspect big firms like Nintendo are gonna be tough to get into

#

Mostly because there's gonna be so many people who want to work at Nintendo so you really gotta stand out from the crowd, or get your foot in the door via networking or connections I guess

desert mauve Sep 10, 2020, 4:11 PM

#

Hello ladies and gents. A gentleman from the unreal job board on FB forwarded me to this forum. Thanks for the add.

Hope everyone is safe and well. Looking for advice (sorry)!
I’m a music composer hailing from Ireland, primarily for film but my qualification is in game music production (my fave recent OSTs are ‘Cuphead’ and ‘Detroit’). I also have a close friend who’s an amazing game sound designer.

My question is, coming from the world of film (a film I scored recently was nominated for a few awards and accepted into Montréal and Los Angeles international film fests), how does one usually approach independent game developers to offer their services professionally, if not already an in-house composer? It seems much easier to obtain professional work in the world of film!

I completed the Global Game Jam in 2019 in which I provided music for two games and had an absolute blast. Thanks in advance and any help appreciated 😄

limber adder Sep 10, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

If you want to live in Japan for cheap, there's a submarket of housing units that are exceptionally underpriced because they're forced to tell you that someone committed suicide there. May put a damper on your whole livin the dream vibe though.

trail leaf Sep 10, 2020, 9:05 PM

#

@desert mauve Have a nice portfolio and keep hustling.

desert mauve Sep 10, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

@trail leaf thanks James! I know Pax is on this weekend so going to tag along to that. Virtually, of course.

trail leaf Sep 10, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

Always a good idea. Music composition can be difficult, so having a wide range is also useful. From 8-bit chip tunes to full orchestra.

desert mauve Sep 10, 2020, 10:03 PM

#

Yup! I’m mad about all genres of music. I’m an orchestral and trained classical musician who’s always loved writing for media so games would be great!

simple otter Sep 11, 2020, 12:37 PM

#

Hi

stone breach Sep 12, 2020, 6:06 AM

#

What are some of the best colleges for video game programming?

plucky hatch Sep 12, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

most colleges do CS and might have some courses in programming games

sour harbor Sep 12, 2020, 10:10 AM

#

https://www.gamedesigning.org/video-game-design-schools/

The Ultimate Resource for Video Game Design

The 75 Best Video Game Design Schools

2020 Update! The 75 Best Video Game Design Schools in the world. Learn how to start your career today with a degree from the best game design colleges!

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 11:38 AM

#

<@&213101288538374145>

carmine siren Sep 12, 2020, 12:39 PM

#

@flat gazelle what's up?

ashen lynx Sep 12, 2020, 12:41 PM

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There were things here. Apparently things are no more.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 3:49 PM

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In all seriousness, can you get into the game industry without an education?

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 4:06 PM

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No

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Without a degree, sure.

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But not uneducated.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 4:54 PM

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That’s what I mean, without a degree

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I’m enrolled in a course or two in Udemy

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 4:57 PM

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I've worked with a few programmers that did not have degrees. However they were highly educated because they had a drive to learn through many other methods.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 4:58 PM

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That’s what I’m hoping to do. I’m enrolled in a course for Unreal and a course for Unity on Udemy.

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 4:59 PM

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That's a good start, but you'll need more than that.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 4:59 PM

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Yeah? Any recommendations?

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I’m also getting my foundation level certification for software testing

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Through the ASTQB

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:00 PM

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The biggest advantage a degree offers is training in data structures and algorithms. Along with a general sense of architectural design.

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Anyone can take a programming boot camp and start copying code from stack overflow

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You'll need something to help you see the bigger picture. There's lots of books on the topic, but ultimately you'll need to experience it.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:03 PM

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I’ll figure it out I guess

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:03 PM

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The best way to learn game dev is getting your hands dirty. Start building a simple project, then finish it. Then do a more complex project.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:03 PM

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Ok

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:04 PM

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Degrees can help with visas as well.

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You also need to figure out what you want to do.

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:05 PM

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If you decide to get a day job OUTSIDE the game industry as a software engineer, not having a degree can be a huge hindrance

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:05 PM

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Well, that’s the problem I’m having right now. I made to the second round of three at Blizzard Entertainment for the test analyst position

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:05 PM

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The company I work for now won't hire some of the people I know just because they don't have degrees. Doesn't matter they are otherwise 10x more qualified than people we are interviewing

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:06 PM

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Formal education is more important for coders than artists as well.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:06 PM

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Problem I’m having right now is that there’s no place wanting to hire a fresh QA

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:08 PM

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Well, are you good at QA?

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:09 PM

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I’m still new but I’ve been told I’m in the top 3% of testers on the PTR for World of Warcraft if that counts? Otherwise I just don’t have the experience they’re looking for

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:09 PM

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The days of using QA as an entrypoint without knowing anything about QA are gone.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:09 PM

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Maybe I should just give it up then

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:09 PM

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It's not common to go from QA to something else. It happens, but it's rare these days.

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:09 PM

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Isn't QA more of a producer / manager track?

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:09 PM

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Yeah

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It's a career in its own.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:10 PM

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If it wasn’t for COVID striking it when it did out here, I would’ve had the position at Blizzard

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:10 PM

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I've known one QA person that became a software engineer, but that was only because I vetted and trained him personally

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:10 PM

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So if you plan on being a programmer, get awesome at programming and apply for programming roles.

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:11 PM

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Everyone else I know from QA went more along the producer / pm route

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Or stayed in QA

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:11 PM

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Yeah I've seen a couple become designers. But that's a couple in a very long time.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:12 PM

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My goal was to go from QA to Quest Designer

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:12 PM

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I started directly as a programmer in the game industry years ago. I also did not have an advisor and had to carve my own path.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:12 PM

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And you had a formal education for it right?

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:12 PM

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I've always been a vfx artist.

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I did a year and a half of vocational school, but it was a different time then.

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:13 PM

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I have a degree in software engineering and an MBA. The school I went to was anti-video game dev, but offered 1 game dev course and a smattering of graphics programming courses. I won my first job through side projects.

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I continue to win other jobs through a portfolio of projects.

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I've stolen the artist's playbook and include pictures of every important product I've worked on in all my interviews.

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It's a lot easier to point at a picture and explain the engineering behind it

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:15 PM

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The other question I’ve wondered if can you use YouTube as a portfolio?

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:15 PM

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As an artist, you won't ever be asked about your education.

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My reels are on Vimeo. Youtube works.

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:16 PM

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Vimeo is a better location for demo reels. It's a bit more professional

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You also don't have to worry about the viewer getting distracted as much

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:16 PM

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Nice

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I’ll keep that in mind

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:17 PM

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If you are aiming for quest designer, you will need to demonstrate basic programming skills as well as good content design

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I think a good start could be building a mod / campaign for a popular game with modding support

flat gazelle Sep 12, 2020, 5:18 PM

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Agreed

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:18 PM

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Oh ok. I think I can do that? Lol

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:18 PM

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Lots of high profile designers come from the modding scene

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Elbow grease and dedication

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Going to be hard because you have to reshape your brain

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 5:18 PM

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I’m super excited for this. Thank you again for the advice you guys

fiery rose Sep 12, 2020, 5:18 PM

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Essentially giving yourself on the job training before getting the job

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I recommend setting an aggressive timeline and sticking with it

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The biggest failing in my career has been side projects that drag on and on because of life distractions or scope creep.

ashen relic Sep 12, 2020, 6:04 PM

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Do you guys have any games you’d recommend to mod?

marsh stream Sep 13, 2020, 8:23 AM

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I've always been a vfx artist.
@flat gazelle This might be a silly question as it seems to have become an industry standard, but are you a VFX artist that uses Houdini? or mainly focus on in-engine vfx tools (e.g Niagara)? I have started using Houdini looking at the documention and its been pretty tough. As an individual with zero knowledge in VFX, is it wise to dive into perhaps the deep end of VFX (houdini) or would you suggest starting elsewhere?

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2020, 10:15 AM

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Both. I do most of my work in editor, but Houdini has been my dcc of choice for many years.

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Id suggest starting in Niagara, then use what you are comfortable with. Once you hit the limits of your chosen dcc, Houdini is there for you. @marsh stream

marsh stream Sep 13, 2020, 5:29 PM

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Awesome, thanks for the info! Will do 👍

kindred vapor Sep 15, 2020, 2:38 AM

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Houdini is awesome if you will focus in videogames just start in unreal and try to learn it well after that learn houdini so you can make your life very easier

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@marsh stream

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Hi guys Houdini vfx artist currently doing a river asset for a game my question is about custom depth in translucent materials how i can correct this?

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📎 unknown.png

elder mist Sep 15, 2020, 2:50 AM

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@kindred vapor depth fade

kindred vapor Sep 15, 2020, 3:25 AM

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but how i configure that i need to set it up in the material connecting it to the opacity @elder mist

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thanks for answering

steel creek Sep 15, 2020, 3:26 AM

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if you ask in a more appropriate place next time, you might get a faster answer.

elder mist Sep 15, 2020, 3:26 AM

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this is wrong channel for this questions, use #graphics

kindred vapor Sep 15, 2020, 3:26 AM

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ok sorry new here

burnt dawn Sep 16, 2020, 3:11 AM

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This might be a dumb question but I'm currently working on a Business degree, is it possible to enter the game industry through a sort of business avenue rather than as developer or designer?

trail leaf Sep 16, 2020, 3:26 AM

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Probably

nova tartan Sep 16, 2020, 3:40 AM

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Games need marketing and businesses need accountants
But don't expect to work much on the game, just on selling it.

jagged raven Sep 16, 2020, 5:41 AM

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@burnt dawn thats a bit of a general question - not sure your specific business skills etc or exactly what you want to do - but the general answer would be yes - there are a wide variety of "non game dev" type folks working at studios to keep them running - a game studio/company/publisher is a business after all. Maybe do some research on studios - check out a studios roster on linkedin and see the backgrounds of the non dev type folks in particular and what they are doing - admin, hr, pr, etc - and then calibrate accordingly

quick horizon Sep 16, 2020, 9:12 AM

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Hii

drowsy drift Sep 16, 2020, 9:32 AM

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Aaaand we are live 😄
https://twitter.com/ErnstssonJohan/status/1306159328156692481?s=20

Ernstsson (@ErnstssonJohan)

1/8 : We have some really exciting news to share with you all! But before we do, I just want to steal a moment of your time to highlight how grateful I am for my fellow co-founder, colleague and friend: Johan Borg.

https://t.co/5A7pDXSCRz
#UE4 #indiedev #gamedev #architectur...

distant umbra Sep 17, 2020, 11:40 PM

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Hello I'm looking for a free website service for my portfolio. Any recommendations?

ripe zinc Sep 18, 2020, 12:50 AM

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Artstation, or Wix I think are your best bets

urban stump Sep 18, 2020, 12:59 AM

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Artstation.

plucky hatch Sep 18, 2020, 7:12 PM

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I made my portfolio my self

radiant sluice Sep 18, 2020, 11:55 PM

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Might be the incorrect channel so apologies if it is. How do you / did you stay motivated to get into Unreal Engine development at the start of your careers? I'm currently trying to make a simple, physics based escape room game (Yet another Escape Room, I know). Just when I think I get a handle on something and learn one area, I open a can of worms to another area and get overwhelmed. The amount you need to know is crazy - I just started learning Blueprints, great - turns out I need a "hook" model on a rope, can't find any free ones so I'll have to make it in Blender - queue learning Blender 2.8 from youtube for a week, great, now I've got my hook and a rope - oh, ok, now I need to learn about physics assets, skeletal meshes and how to apply custom collision to a skeletal mesh - and the custom collision that I've created is importing incorrectly.

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Its just seems completely daunting to a novice

craggy nacelle Sep 19, 2020, 12:03 AM

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it sounds like you're starting from a significantly more complex project than I did

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I probably made like.. a pong game or a tetris or something

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I think it's okay to feel a bit overwhelmed, there is definitely a lot of stuff to learn

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it's important to keep in mind that you're making progress... I went back and forth between projects a lot but I'd always learn to do thing s a bit better for the next one :D

frank spindle Sep 19, 2020, 12:40 AM

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I made my portfolio my self
@plucky hatch what do you mean?

trail leaf Sep 19, 2020, 12:48 AM

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@radiant sluice I feel that you've run into a similar issue many people starting out run into, which is a lack of planning. Having worked with quite a number of junior developers, the first thing they always do is jump head first into solving problems and encountering road blocks along the way. I work with them to start breaking down the problem a little bit and then there are manageable chunks of work they can solve and feel like they're making progress. In the case with your game idea, what may have seemed simple looks like it has grown into a really big overwhelming thing to do.

tall solar Sep 19, 2020, 9:08 AM

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@radiant sluice That is one reason that studios have people working from different profession points. You're always going to run into a new rabbit hole trying to learn or solo develop, you don't have a 3D artist on hand to ask to make up a quick hook so you need to make one yourself. Just do yourself a favor and don't overcomplicate it. JUST MAKE THE HOOK. Don't spend days pouring over tutorials and stuff about other crazy things to do in blender, or the way to make the shiniest most incredibly performant, best working hook that mankind has ever seen. Just make a hook and use it. You can polish later if you want. But that few hours it should take to learn to make a simple hook object in blender for the first time can easily turn into days or weeks of rabbit holing through videos and tutorials on blender for things you don't need yet and may never need to consider. Learning is generally always considered a good thing, but as far as motivation it's a great way to get distracted from your projects.

radiant sluice Sep 19, 2020, 11:27 AM

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@trail leaf Yeah, that is likely a correct assumption. I don't suppose you have any links to how to break things down that I could read, or any project plan templates that you use frequently? Might help overcome the feeling of being overwhelmed

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@tall solar Yeah that is a good point - I do often find myself not just wanting to make a hook, but wanting to make a hook "properly" if that makes sense - I want the game to look and feel great, otherwise I may as well not bother making it - but if I spend days looking into a hook I won't have time / motivation to make it. Thanks for the pointers, I'll keep focused on what is important which is a game, even if it doesn't have the most polish 🙂

trail leaf Sep 19, 2020, 12:39 PM

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Not really, other than continously breaking problems down into smaller components then researching how to solve each component.

shadow kelp Sep 21, 2020, 12:28 PM

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a working physically-simulated hook on a rope...that's a 'yikes' from me. Not a beginner problem.

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half the problem starting out is knowing what's easy and what's not!

radiant sluice Sep 21, 2020, 3:49 PM

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thats fair mid_gen 🙂 I think that is also my problem, only been "in" on game development for <6 months, so its hard to identify what would be easy, compared to hard

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 5:29 PM

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Hi there. I need some suggestion about my career.

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I am working as a game developer currently. I have 3 years experience with Unreal Engine 4 before my current job. Mostly with blueprint. I developed 2 big serious game and one classic zombie game. My current job is about Mobile Game and I have 1,5 years experience with C++. I want to work in PC game industry. I applied +20 company but nobody interested with my skill

ashen lynx Sep 21, 2020, 5:34 PM

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Toss your portfolio here, you will get answer why.

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 5:45 PM

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should I share my linkedin profile here?

hybrid phoenix Sep 21, 2020, 6:40 PM

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LinkedIn != porfolio. If all you've got is your LinkedIn, that'll probably be why

ashen lynx Sep 21, 2020, 6:47 PM

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Well.. if you store a video/description/code samples on linkedin somehow, it surely would be useful. But I do have doubts that it is the case.

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 7:07 PM

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@cunning basin As the others mentioned, Linkedin isn't a portfolio. If you don't already have your own website, it would be a great time to start working on a portfolio site. Resume/CV link is helpful also, much easier to digest than Linkedin usually. But if that's all you have, link it.

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You say "PC Game Industry", which I guess could be a goal, but are you focused on AAA or Indie? Or does it matter? What were your actual job roles on your previous projects? What position(s) are you applying for?

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 7:36 PM

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@kindred mason thanks for suggestion. AAA or indie does not matter for me. I had my own company and I developed 2 VR project (serious game) and I almost did everything alone but ofc I am not senior with all because Unreal like ocean 🙂 . I generally appy for gameplay programmer.

flat gazelle Sep 21, 2020, 7:37 PM

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There's another issue. AAA and indie have different requirements. Tailoring for both means tailoring for none.

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 7:53 PM

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ok I could say I m interest AAA

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 7:53 PM

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Aye @cunning basin , I agree here with @flat gazelle . You need to know what path you want to go in. They are very different paths. So, first off, figure out what kind of lifestyle you want. The culture's are radically different between AAA and Indie.

That's not to say you can't try one for awhile and then try the other later if you feel it's not a good fit for you. I've never worked AAA, so my current knowledge is only from Indie side (working for and owning my own Indie studio), which has been a blast.

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Ah, you just sent that lol

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How have you been submitting applications to them? So far, you haven't linked your Linkedin, and I guess I am assuming you don't have a portfolio website, but you're going to need to actually show someone way before a test is even considered (unless that's part of application process). I suppose having two shipped games is pretty good, can you link those @cunning basin ?

Honestly, if you've only worked for yourself ever (this is confusing and I may be mistaken because your initial post felt differently in context), depending on the quality of the shipped games, it may not be enough "experience" (or "showdevship"). "Gameplay Programmer portfolio", I would start by simply googling for that and look at what your peers are doing.

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If you are applying for Senior/Lead positions, even more so

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@honest cipher might be able to talk about his experience from going Indie to AAA (and back) though. How he was able to snag a AAA job after working by himself for years.

honest cipher Sep 21, 2020, 8:02 PM

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i clicked the "availible for work" button in linkedin

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got spammed to death

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did like 20 interviews in 2 weeks

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stopped the interview chain once i reached same interview step on a company that paid more/was better

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eventually ended up in pubg

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 8:04 PM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad93ksie9Vs&ab_channel=mehmetemin @kindred mason that is my first unreal engine project

YouTube

mehmet emin

Engelsiz Sanal Sınıf

Serious game project. The project created to facilitate the education of people with walking disabilities.
With this project, the users can listen desired lesson. Lessons can be paused or relisten by users. The project also include some tests to measure your knowledge about le...

▶ Play video

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I did develop it 4 years ago

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second one is private project. thats why I can not share anything about it

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:11 PM

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Ah, forgot VR projects.

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No one cares about VR anymore

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And I feel very sad about that as well. Especially after all that time I spent doing VR games/projects.

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 8:13 PM

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yes but conceptually same. logics are same

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:14 PM

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But yeah, this could be your blocker, especially since you're directing this to AAA

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 8:14 PM

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animations, AI, UI, rendering, lighting

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:14 PM

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What does animation, rendering, or lighting have anything to do with gameplay programming though?

ashen lynx Sep 21, 2020, 8:14 PM

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@cunning basin Lets pretend that I am not a random, only tangentially related to gamedev, but a hiring manager in a pretty decent european studio. What would you show to me?

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 8:15 PM

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@kindred mason I meant generally

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@ashen lynx you can do an interview, ask questions and you can give an assignment ?

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If I cant find a job in this industry how can I make AAA game alone?

ashen lynx Sep 21, 2020, 8:18 PM

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But before we reach that stage, I need to somehow identify you out from all noise of the apps.

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 8:18 PM

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maybe my job experience?

ashen lynx Sep 21, 2020, 8:19 PM

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And I have about 2 minutes to investigate you, before either calling meh, next one, or this lads goes up to next round and up to a telephone call.

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In reality, probably people have even less than that

cunning basin Sep 21, 2020, 8:21 PM

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ok but what to do? to catch someone’s attention.

ashen lynx Sep 21, 2020, 8:22 PM

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You need to show something. I guess ?

mystic hull Sep 21, 2020, 8:23 PM

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There's another issue. AAA and indie have different requirements. Tailoring for both means tailoring for none.
@flat gazelle If I may, I'm a little curious about this opinion. How do both become mutually exclusive? Is it about wearing more hats as opposed to being more specialized?

flat gazelle Sep 21, 2020, 8:23 PM

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Yep

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The bigger the studio, the more specialized you need to be.

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:25 PM

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Aye, you definitely end up wearing many more hats in Indie 🙂

mystic hull Sep 21, 2020, 8:26 PM

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Some scary implications this has, though you'd still get hired with enough experience in a certain field no?

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:26 PM

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Unless you are approaching III

mystic hull Sep 21, 2020, 8:26 PM

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Well, I can't speak for AAA, never worked on one 😛

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:27 PM

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The main point here @mystic hull is that you need to show something

mystic hull Sep 21, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Oh excuse me, I took it way out of the original question's scope 😅

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Especially concerning the field you are applying to

mystic hull Sep 21, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Mine was it's own question

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:27 PM

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"you'd still get hired with enough experience in a certain field no?"

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"Experience" is relative

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You can look at a bunch of job app with the same position and it's all over the place

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What people will really care about is that portfolio

mystic hull Sep 21, 2020, 8:28 PM

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Well, to rephrase, would you get hired as having 5 years of experience in a specific specialization, even if you have 10 overall, all tying to game dev, in AAA?

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In terms of paygrade etc, and in a theoretical scenario where you switch from indie to AAA

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:29 PM

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That's a loaded question with too many variables 😉

mystic hull Sep 21, 2020, 8:29 PM

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Fair enough 😄

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:29 PM

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Did you just spend all those years on one game?

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One studio? Solo?

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What do you have to show after all that experience

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In AAA, I also think it's important to consider that you'll be working with teams, a team lead most likely as well. How can you handle following directions/orders? How do you work with others?

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(It's important in Indie as well, but AAA will be a bit more stringent)

mystic hull Sep 21, 2020, 8:32 PM

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I was more trying to know if all things being equal, being valuable to an indie does not necessarily, if at all, make you valuable to a AAA

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and if it's vice versa

ashen lynx Sep 21, 2020, 8:33 PM

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Truth is, that you are not given opportunity to select. The way you land with jobs will shape the path.

kindred mason Sep 21, 2020, 8:33 PM

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I was more trying to know if all things being equal, being valuable to an indie does not necessarily, if at all, make you valuable to a AAA
@mystic hull If anything, it's the opposite IMHO, a AAA dev would be more valuable (in my eyes) as an Indie than vice-versa all things considered equal.

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But it just depends still.. WTF was accomplished in that time

flat gazelle Sep 21, 2020, 8:34 PM

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A programmer might be valuable to indies, whereas a render programmer might be more valuable to AAA. In indie an Artist might be good to have, whereas in AAA you might need a level artist. etc.

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Again, the bigger the company the narrower the specialization needs to be.

mystic hull Sep 21, 2020, 8:35 PM

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Makes sense 👍 Thanks

oblique forge Sep 22, 2020, 11:52 AM

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Is it worth it to start an indie career in game dev?

sharp leaf Sep 22, 2020, 12:28 PM

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Maybe.

velvet timber Sep 22, 2020, 1:56 PM

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@oblique forge freelance all your work and yes. Unless you can manage all of it.

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If you spend a month to make a game and you make 5000 well technically you made 5000 for a month of work. It's passive income if done correctly.

lilac walrus Sep 22, 2020, 2:47 PM

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....working for a month isn't 'passive income'

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2020, 2:48 PM

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If it is, count me the F in

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2020, 2:48 PM

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That would be even better than being a bard.

velvet timber Sep 22, 2020, 2:55 PM

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Shoot working for a month to create a lifetime of earning is completely passive. Why do I still have games making money when I haven't touched them in over 2 years?

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I guess if you push out a game that needs continuous updates and such then that is in no way passive.

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2020, 3:01 PM

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That is not passive income, lad.

velvet timber Sep 22, 2020, 3:12 PM

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Passive income is money you earn in a way that requires little to no daily effort to maintain.

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Sounds correct to me.

remote saffron Sep 22, 2020, 3:26 PM

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the only passive income i know is the income which is so passive that it is never even wired in the first place 😐

lilac walrus Sep 22, 2020, 3:31 PM

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it's deferred income - you did the work, you earned money for it later

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this all said, hardly any game will continuously make money by itself after being released

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so banking on that idea may be a fool's errand anyway

craggy nacelle Sep 22, 2020, 3:35 PM

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I've never seen anyone nitpick the concept of passive income this hard lol

green oyster Sep 22, 2020, 4:54 PM

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welcome to unreal slackers 💯

shut token Sep 22, 2020, 4:58 PM

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The actual definition for deferred income is payments in advance for something that hasn't been received yet. So, pre-ordering a game, the company is getting deferred income. They are receiving money for goods that haven't been delivered yet.

While the definition for passive income is in fact what Willy said, money earned that requires little to no effort to earn and maintain. Such as a game you released 2 years ago that you haven't updated or even looked at. Even if it only generated $5 that year, that $5 is passive income.

honest cipher Sep 22, 2020, 4:59 PM

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ive been getting "passive income" from my PSVR game for 2 years

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only now its really dropping below 100-200 dollas a month

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games tend to keep selling for quite a while, specially on consoles

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on Steam it went to literal 0 after something like 2-3 months

shut token Sep 22, 2020, 5:05 PM

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@honest cipher You think that perhaps you game has done so well because it is in a niche part of the console market in general? Or is it just consoles are generally money makers?

honest cipher Sep 22, 2020, 5:05 PM

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consoles sell a lot more

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specially for unknown tier indies

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the thing is that steam just borrows you into the trash super quickly

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and then you sell zero

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in consoles, there are less games in general, so each game can get a bit of exposure

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if you search for "vr + shooter" on playstation store, my game appears somewhere relatively quick

shut token Sep 22, 2020, 5:07 PM

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Right - but if I release a generic shooter on console and they search for it, it may not be as quick to find (not saying I would - just an example). Which circles back 'round to if being in a niche console market may have helped with exposure more.

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Search for "shooter" or w/e I mean.

honest cipher Sep 22, 2020, 5:08 PM

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better than if you do so on steam and no one ever sees your game

shut token Sep 22, 2020, 5:08 PM

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Fair point.

trail leaf Sep 22, 2020, 9:32 PM

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Personally, I think an indie career in game dev is awesome. If you succeed.

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If not, well, at least you gave it a shot.

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Don't be one of those people who are forever saying that they are writing a novel or making a film.

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2020, 10:45 PM

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Wow, making me look around nervously 😄

trail leaf Sep 22, 2020, 10:59 PM

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Well, I should clarify...

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 1:09 AM

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Hello everyone! Brand new to the server

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looking forward to being active within this new community as I start studying and progressing through my game design/art career!

spice dagger Sep 23, 2020, 1:48 AM

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@sacred bay We do not condone Name and Shaming here. If you have issues with other members of the community please bring it up to a Moderator privately.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:44 AM

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when am i allowed to be a software engineer

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ive produced over 14 projects

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published 4 games

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and ive also worked on fullstack development for my current position, even tho its not my title i am taking part in all dev meetings, and have actual code in our git repository

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and ive also had to take part in testing, and pretty much the entire software dev lifecycle

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yet my title is "technical support engineer"

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lmao

polar coyote Sep 23, 2020, 2:45 AM

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may I ask if anyone has earned something from a free game made in unreal with a lot bugs or not updated? Does the money come from ads?

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 2:46 AM

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i wonder if i'll ever be allowed to code at a game studio

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:^)

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or if recruiters and boomers wil always gatekeep me

trail leaf Sep 23, 2020, 3:43 AM

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No one gate keeps you if you form your own studio.

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 4:41 AM

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^What I'm doing

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already got really talented individuals expanding their skills

shadow kelp Sep 23, 2020, 7:11 AM

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@drifting stratus it's usually best to be introspective to answer these questions, rather than trying to find blame

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:25 PM

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@shadow kelp In my opinion, 9 times out of 10, I'm incredibly introspective, and it's usually nepotism when it comes to hiring. Another big one is anyone over 30 who thinks they know more than everyone else, and they have a superiority fetish where they think they are better than everyone else, and they only hire other 30+ year olds. I've literally had this happen multiple times where someone would interview me over the phone, and then once I told them my age, I could hear a "yikes" in their voice, if you're in your late 20s, good luck finding an engineering job, might as well give up and go work at some support desk job, because that's the best you're going to find, and that's all people think you're worth. I've literally seen people go from really engaging, to finding out my age and then starting to distance themselves.

flat gazelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:30 PM

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I'm sorry to say, but from the impression you've left in this channel, it might not be an age thing. I get the frustration but I have to echo the call for not trying to find blame.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:30 PM

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@flat gazelle what's your age?

flat gazelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:30 PM

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32

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:31 PM

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exactly

flat gazelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:31 PM

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Hired a 22 year old and a 28 year old not too long ago

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What's your point?

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:36 PM

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my point is is that people who are old hate the young because they are afraid

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they get outscaled

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also

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i bet u paid them like 60k a year

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or some shit

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like super underpaid

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while u get paid 90k+

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im tired of working for people who know less than me, but get paid more simply because they have a beer belly and graying hair

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Age does not equate competency

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:37 PM

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if this idea of "you know less than me" comes through in your job interviews that might be the problem 🤔

flat gazelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:38 PM

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I'm willing to bet my hat that it's more an attitude thing than an age thing because what you've written here, makes you non hireable in my book.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:39 PM

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i never talk about these things

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but being anonymous allows me to talk about my true feelings

thick eagle Sep 23, 2020, 12:40 PM

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Hi, I am Hrithik i want to start learning coding and a game engine what should i learn first

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:40 PM

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without fear of retribution

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these are nothing more than my feelings

tacit siren Sep 23, 2020, 12:40 PM

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there is a point in everyone's career where their confidence vastly outstrips their skill

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:40 PM

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@thick eagle Learn whatever you want to focus on and vehemently train daily, don't do it for anyone but yourself

thick eagle Sep 23, 2020, 12:40 PM

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K thanks

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:40 PM

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lol

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@tacit siren you're referring to Dunning–Kruger syndrome

tacit siren Sep 23, 2020, 12:41 PM

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and that is when people usually sound just like you did above

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exactly

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:41 PM

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But I'm not that

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lol

flat gazelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:41 PM

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I agree Zlo. I hit that point after shipping my first multimillion copy game. Thought I was the best there was. 😛 I was so wrong.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:41 PM

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I literally am doing software engineering at my job, but I maintain the title of "technical support engineer"

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im a support engineer who codes

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lul

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and joins dev meetings

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and everything

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and actually has code in our git repo for multiple commits

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and was the person who developed our entire dev environment

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but i get no credit

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:42 PM

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Sounds like you should be asking for a raise then

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:42 PM

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doesnt matter

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might as well kms

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because i dont matter

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:42 PM

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You have to be proactive in your career

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Nobody is gonna come in and tell you that you've done a good job, here take some more money :P

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:43 PM

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of course not

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lol

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even tho ive directly been part of multiple teams

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from sales, to support, to engineering

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but i dont matter

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dont forget

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u dont matter

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u could spend ur entire 20s at some company

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and just like

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u dont matter

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bring in millions of dollars for the big guy

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and then get randomly laid off

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lol

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:45 PM

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yeah like I said you need to be proactive and make yourself known

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:45 PM

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i dont even like this type of development

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its basically webdev lol

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legitimately tho, as emo as this sounds

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in 5 years, if i dont have a single good position, paying $90,000+ by the time im 30

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im gonna kms

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because fuck life if ur never gonna be able to afford a house and start a family

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life without family is trash

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:47 PM

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That pretty much depends on where you live tbh

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Most people I know don't make anything like 90k because the living costs in majority of the world aren't insane like they are in California

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:47 PM

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Also

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most companies don't hire junior/associate level devs

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ive literally calculated it myself

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i made a web scraper and scraped over 30,000 websites for data searching for terms like "Sr. Software Engineer" "Software Engineer" "Principle Software Engineer" "Junior Software Engineer" and "Jr. Software Engineer"

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and the ones containing "Jr." and "Junior" out of 30,000 different jobs scraped, it was only like 13% of all jobs

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and upon looking deeper, they are usually temporary, or contract to hire, or something similar

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or they are like 1 year contracts

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with like no benefits

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lol

tacit siren Sep 23, 2020, 12:49 PM

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which is not terribly surprising

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:50 PM

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None of our jr positions were advertised anywhere ¯_(ツ)_/¯

tacit siren Sep 23, 2020, 12:50 PM

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as my time spent training them is worth more then their total time, more often then not

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:50 PM

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I think considering the aforementioned data, this literally proves that they hate young people

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and only want to hire people their own age

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they want u to fail

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and give up

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 12:50 PM

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I'm starting to get the feeling that this has stopped being a real conversation a while ago zomgmoFace

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 12:51 PM

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wut do u mean

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im fully convinced that they just hate young people tbh

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because if they did, there would be more jobs

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let's take a look at the roblox website

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for sec

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i just looked at theirs

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https://hastebin.com/kusojozayi.sql

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these are all curreent positions with roblox at their california office on the engineering team

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almost all of them require "2-4 years exp" and are essentially senior level

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or managerial level

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    Engineering Manager - Application Platform

    Full Time
    Engineering Manager - Economy

    Full Time
    Engineering Manager - Game Engine Systems

    Full Time
    Engineering Manager - Internal Tools

    Full Time
    Engineering Manager - Marketplace Client

    Full Time
    Engineering Manager, Studio

    Full Time
    Engineering Manager-Avatar```

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the following positions can only be done by someone of age 30 or older

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simply because of lack of experience

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    Principal Engineer - Cloud Platform

    Full Time
    Principal Software Engineer

    Full Time
    Principal Software Engineer (Full-Stack) - Safety Tools & Intelligence

    Full Time
    Principal Software Engineer - Application Platform

    Full Time
    Principal Software Engineer - Developer Productivity

    Full Time
    Principal Software Engineer - Productivity Tools

    Full Time
    Principal Software Engineer - Social Core

    Full Time
    Principal Software Engineer - UI Editor```

All principle positions are held by people 30-40 years old from what I've seen

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then if u look under that, the next 15 positions are all prefixed with the title "Senior"

polar coyote Sep 23, 2020, 12:58 PM

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In medicine, we also have the same hiearchy, you rise through the ranks and once you become a consultant and specialist you may lead or become an associate with doctor.
But then again even if you are genius way back in medschool and become certified. You still have to make your way. Experience is not something you have overnight or a few years. There are also administrative stuff you have to delve with etc.
I understand your frustration but sometimes either you go with the system or find yourself in a company that shares your vision or you can even make your own.

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By the way I am already in my early 30s and during more than 2 decades of studying, you will really have to deal with the system. But good thing is the current environment is not all about hiearchy anymore but experience now. You still have to respect those above you, learn and find your way eventually that is.

honest cipher Sep 23, 2020, 1:00 PM

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@drifting stratus its far easier than that

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finding senior is what is hard

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finding juniors is stupid easy

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there are tons of them

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if you want juniors you can go to a local CS school and pick some of them

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filling an "actual junior" position takes very, very little time

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but when you put the adverts around, what you really want to pick are seniors, which are super hard to find

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if you get a job application from a junior on that senior job, and he is actually half decent, then you hire him as junior, no problem

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also you definitely dont want to hire a "senior" who is less than 30

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definition of senior basically completely remove sub 30 year olds unless they are literal geniouses or something strange

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 1:05 PM

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I suspect that sometimes that feeling of "age superiority" is simply that they might choose a more experienced applicant due to the chance they might understand more about what is going on in the back-end. ie - rather than just "knowing more" they consider someone who has handled more proposal-rejections or budget cuts or team-exercises of a particular paradigm.
ie the stuff that comes with "time" or exposure to various roles in various companies, over a younger, smarter worker that has held 2-4 high-end jobs like this current one.

If you want to hear it from the top - a good podcast is the RedHat Linux Podcast about "The 10X Coder" where they dive deep into various pros-and-cons for knowledge vs exposure/dynamic.

Don't get me wrong - both are good, but if you are only looking at established companies... they might be only after established workers.

As a personal anecdote, I had the same thing - I got no offers in my 20's, although I did "shoe-in" to a big Japanese brand through their sales arm... They are a bit Nepotistic and more-so VERY SILO'ed off and closed-minded... so getting into their product or development teams felt impossible...
In the end I took a seachange and got a Job as a personal assistant... $50k working for the CTO

wraith iron Sep 23, 2020, 1:06 PM

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Is UE4 learning platform good to start with? Because I don't find any good school around. I'm thinking of learning on unity platform from a XR Dev online course (CircuitStream) and then move to unreal, but it seem so stupid to spend 4k$ on unity. Can someone please help me here?

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 1:06 PM

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@wraith iron
You could buy a lot of books with 4k$...

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and afford a fair bit of time to read them, depending on your situation

honest cipher Sep 23, 2020, 1:08 PM

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lmao 4k seriously?

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you can literally hire an indie dev for like 3-4 months to personally tutor you with that money

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a good one

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hell for 4k i'd do it myself

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forget about bullshit courses. Both unreal and unity. There are a couple super-cheap udemy flagship courses (the most popular for each engine), that are like 20 bucks

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and they are decent

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the rest is to just go make stuff

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 1:10 PM

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Would agree.

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 1:10 PM

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@drifting stratus My CTO boss said: "the reason i kept you over the other guy I just trialled is because he had all these degrees and a high-end title with no long-term experience... he was always jumpy to change everything and put in all these new things like pushing us up to dotnet 4.5 because it ran more efficient etc etc wheras you were calm and said you will adapt to how we currently work, and then you put forward proposals that can fix things without interrupting this.

A lot of key lessons in that was "greater effects" such as pushing a change at the detriment of everything but one that makes sure we would come back to compliance with Gov regulation for the industry we worked in etc... those kind-of things take out-of-the-box thinking, patience, and sometimes more than just the usual "highly skilled coder" as an example.

honest cipher Sep 23, 2020, 1:11 PM

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that is exactly what people look for in a "senior" dev

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 1:12 PM

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I try to remind myself of the Dunning-Krueger effect too - ie the more you truly understand something, the more you find out that you don't fully know...
It keeps me humble and I find It helped me double my salary in 18 months

wraith iron Sep 23, 2020, 1:14 PM

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@honest cipher Good to hear that! Because I don't have money to waste, and the educational path seems so expensive. I like the fact that UE is making a free learning platform, I think I'll start with that following udemy courses

honest cipher Sep 23, 2020, 1:15 PM

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the Tom Looman course is pretty good

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ignore the rest

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Udemy really is just glorified youtube, with absolutely 0 review or control

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but they fund "flagship" courses

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the trick is finding those "flagships", which are high quality courses funded upfront by udemy, used to get people used to the platform

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ignore everything else

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:16 PM

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@drifting stratus My CTO boss said: "the reason i kept you over the other guy I just trialled is because he had all these degrees and a high-end title with no long-term experience... he was always jumpy to change everything and put in all these new things like pushing us up to dotnet 4.5 because it ran more efficient etc etc wheras you were calm and said you will adapt to how we currently work, and then you put forward proposals that can fix things without interrupting this.

A lot of key lessons in that was "greater effects" such as pushing a change at the detriment of everything but one that makes sure we would come back to compliance with Gov regulation for the industry we worked in etc... those kind-of things take out-of-the-box thinking, patience, and sometimes more than just the usual "highly skilled coder" as an example.
@static urchin Makes sense

honest cipher Sep 23, 2020, 1:16 PM

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in the case of unreal Tom Looman course is quite literally a flagship, they paid him to make it

mystic hull Sep 23, 2020, 1:16 PM

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@wraith iron one thing to mention is, you dont learn the engine as much as you learn engineering and/or art, worth keeping that in mind

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:19 PM

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@static urchin i've honestly also had multiple senior software engineers say i should be able to get a job

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i have over 13 projects ive worked on

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4 of which were games, two of which are now published

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when i say multiple, i mean exactly two people btw lol

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one of which is now a principle software engineer at a microchip company

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i wo rked with him for like 3 years lol

nova tartan Sep 23, 2020, 1:22 PM

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Decil, You describe yourself as being able to code, but the way you describe it doesn't necessarily give me confidence in your abilities
"I have code in our git repos!" is not a useful metric, I know plenty of people who are no where near software engineer level who have code in company git repos, physiscists etc
How much do you actually know about architecture and software design, timelines, best practices etc?
It's possible you have some holes in your knowledge that are coming across in interviews
Or that you are applying for high paying positions requiring years of experience and losing out to people with more experience.

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:25 PM

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It's possible you have some holes in your knowledge that are coming across in interviews <= Of course that's possible, but it's not something someone can't learn immediately

honest cipher Sep 23, 2020, 1:26 PM

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published games is a very good metric

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github projects are a nice bonus, but depends of how cool they are

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you also have to ace the interviews

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:30 PM

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I've interviewed with multiple companies honestly, but in the end it always ends as: "We are having a hiring freeze" or "Management has changed" or "Budget cuts"

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and then i never hear anything again

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i think this is just a soft way of saying "u suck, gtfo"

honest cipher Sep 23, 2020, 1:31 PM

#

interview with more

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when i went to find a job i did 20 in a week

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as a bonus, you stop giving a fuck about each of them (individually), with lowers pressure, which means you do better

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also you get practise

wraith iron Sep 23, 2020, 1:34 PM

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@honest cipher thank you very much for the advice! @mystic hull do you mean that it requires a different approach?

honest cipher Sep 23, 2020, 1:34 PM

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learning the engine is a very small step

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you need to make games

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something i recomend people (specially programmers), is to clone Snake, with no engine

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just Cpp with some library like SDL for displaying stuff in the screen

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for something that actually runs an engine, cloning something is also a good way to excersise stuff

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for example, trying to copy the first 2 levels of Metal Gear Solid, including stealth mechanics

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one of my unreal engine students (i gave a course) actually did that. He got full marks XD

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it wasnt 1 to 1

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but he basically kinda remade metal gear 1 first level with simplified version of the mechanics

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:36 PM

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life is hard

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all i really want to do is to have my dream job

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im literally a loyal employee lol

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ive been at this company im at for 4 years

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and i dont have intention of leaving tbh, unless it was a game dev job

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feelsbadman, if i only knew at 16 what i know now at 25

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i probably would have never spent so much time learning to code

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and would have spent it going into sports

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or something

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lol

nova tartan Sep 23, 2020, 1:38 PM

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if i only knew at 16 what i know now at 25
This is a bit ironic considering you bad mouthing people for hiring 30+ year olds

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:38 PM

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whut do u mean?

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i would have never went to learn to code if i knew that i could essentially never have the job i want

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im a nerd but not actually a nerd coz i dont have the job or creds lmfao

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so im just a loser tbh

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 1:40 PM

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Frankly it sounds like you need to work on your mental health if that's how you really feel about yourself and your career prospects

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:41 PM

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my mental health is fine, it doesn't effect my ability to do stuff lol

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 1:41 PM

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@drifting stratus Have you seen "indie game, the movie"?

craggy nacelle Sep 23, 2020, 1:42 PM

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Nobody that I know who's in a good place mentally repeatedly calls themselves a loser tbh

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:42 PM

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@static urchin i just started getting into doing a lot of fitness, i might join a sports team (not sure what sport yet) sometime soon

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Yeah ive seen that movie

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I feel bad for that one guy

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😦

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the fez guy

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 1:42 PM

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Phil Fish?

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:42 PM

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forgot his name

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 1:42 PM

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oh ok i see what is going on then

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ok... he wasnt... nice

drifting stratus Sep 23, 2020, 1:42 PM

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hm?

static urchin Sep 23, 2020, 1:42 PM

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im sure he is now...

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but at the time

#

well

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he was having a very hard time

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very stressful i guess

#

They softly "touched over" some of the stuff, I think to 'conveniently cast him in a bad shadow, but to also show how things can, and DO go wrong... and how not to react'...

#

but the underlying message was this:
Mostly everyone else had spectacular 'luck' when he has incredible 'bad luck'
why?

granite prism Sep 23, 2020, 1:53 PM

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@devi

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@drifting stratus anyone who repeatedly calls themselves a loser

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and your pessimistic mindset

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and negative outlook