Design I feel is something gained by doing many many times though
#career-chat
trail leaf
hybrid phoenix
Director is a veeeery different story from designer
gentle chasm
For me designer generally should be able to implement any part of the game. Either it's level designer (so technical side is relatively easy), gameplay designer.
Narrative designer or writer should also be able to script/assemble simple story elements and dialogue right in the engine. (although general purpose engine Unity/Unreal don't provide sufficient out of box tools yet)
If you can't implement your idea (you never can fully, as you need graphics or sound), need to communicate it to others. Explain and sell properly, so others can properly contribute instead of delivering your random stuff.
And if you don't feel you have sufficient tools, find them, request them or write own tools (advanced level). Although always look up improving your workflows.
Avoid situation where you writing down design doc and you're implementing any of it. Design doc should be treated as method to flesh out your thoughts and gather feedback. Shouldn't be treated as something that programmer takes and implements for you. Better spend a programmer time on building you tools that you would later use to implement your designs.
glossy sorrel
what are key differences between the game designer and director?
vernal rune
director sounds like a manager-type role, designer just designs
trail leaf
Titles like that are not standardised in the industry. Different studios do different things
plucky hatch
I have the rigged asset
plucky hatch
Hi. Who can share the particle of experience howto control develop project via source control without accessing the remote developers to all projects feature?)
For example, building the inventory system.. which consist of two parts: build game logics and ui logics.
And what difference in BP and C sources for this case.
mystic hull
Simple answer: You don't. You get them to sign NDAs with their hands and feet
Alterinative simple answer: You get them to work on an independent project that contains only the features you want, then you or an official employee of yours that you've signed an NDA with can merge these into your real project
That's outsourcing at this point
short lotus
could put some code into plugins and only share binaries if you are using launcher engine
share source for the plugins individually to those that needed
thats only cp tho
digital gate
You don't technically need to do that, but the steps to set things up properly are well outside the scope of this channel. Basically, if you totally modularize the game, you can only grant them particular modules.
If you don't have a solid grasp of how to architect that, you'd want to hire an experienced engineer
plucky hatch
@digital gate as I understood, the UE already "modularized" app, other stuff for these modules can be done by professional game designer?
digital gate
No, you need dedicated engineering staff
And the engine being modular doesn't mean that your project is... just give the external people an absolute minimum version of the project that they're working from
In example... somebody making inventory management will need access to your item types
hybrid phoenix
I'd also suggest not working with people you don't trust, with regard to this being necessary in the first place
digital gate
So will the person making interactable items
But the person making your gameplay mechanics doesn't need that -- that person might need your levels
plucky hatch
Divide project ot sub-projects with one linked logics..
digital gate
You can set things up so they don't have write access in source control for the assets they depend on
they can modify locally, but can't structurally change things
plucky hatch
in this case C++ coding best way to use src control sys?
mystic hull
It's important to make the distinction of whether you're outsourcing, or simply trying to apply source control permissions for your team
digital gate
That way, it will be easier when it comes time to stitch them together
@mystic hull Here it sounds paranoid enough to where non-founders can't be trusted 😂
Anyway that's my input... Gluck
plucky hatch
thx
could put some code into plugins and only share binaries if you are using launcher engine
@short lotus do you know already worked plugin for this?
short lotus
i recall it being done with closed source plugin being provided with no source just binary
would only work with launcher engine though
wanton turret
Quick question: Do jobs normally require us to use C++ or some other programming language when using Unreal, or are there jobs which are fine with just using nodes?
plucky hatch
@wanton turret for big project it more profitable for development process/C-coding
wanton turret
oh ok
digital gate
@wanton turret Depends almost entirely on whether you're going in as a designer or as a programmer
Also, tech artist, etc...
Non programmer roles can heavily use BP without using any C++; Typically if you're a programmer/gameplay scripter, you'll be somewhat expected to be able to use any tool to get the logic implemented
plucky hatch
often programmer writes for designer
digital gate
Not where I work
wanton turret
What kind of roles are there other than programmer that require nodes?
plucky hatch
@digital gate it's norm
digital gate
So is what I said
plucky hatch
@wanton turret Non programmer roles
wanton turret
Are there any specific names for those roles?
digital gate
@wanton turret Best bet: If you're implementing logic as the main thing you do, versus trying to balance the game or trying to make VeryCoolThings™️ ... you want to know both C++ and BP, and be comfortable.
digital gate
If you're hired on and never write a single line of code, the knowledge of how to do so might just save the project in a pinch, and they're going to be so grateful
Nah @plucky hatch
wanton turret
Is C++ the only language used for game design or do some jobs use other languages such as Python or Java?
digital gate
It might appear as such, but it's an entirely different entity.
BP is just a set of bytecode
plucky hatch
@digital gate it looks.. I understand that it's works something as source for translator
digital gate
@wanton turret For UE4, C++/BP is the primary thing used, although you can definitely use python/C#/skookum. Outside of UE4, literally everything is used by at least one person.
plucky hatch
Java?) This lang developed for big business solutions / enterprise based N-applications using Spring MVC and JEE, etc. another category.. and another speed
I thinking about usage the Java for APIs' backend (but not for develop the game))
nova tartan
Unity is C# based, and afaik it's pretty popular engine
digital gate
Similarly, Godot uses a python-like scripting language; that engine has been gaining traction
plucky hatch
ou can write your own compilator/translator and develop on your own lang )
or develop own lang then develop the compil..
vivid crown
brave reef
your custom programming language better have industry-leading performance or the whole thing was pointless
honest cipher
@brave reef not the case in godot, as its a iterpreted scriptlang XD, so worse than BPs
but making a language these days is really not so hard
its even easy
with LLVM allowing you fairly easy "runs as fast as c" codegen
leaden fulcrum
Quick question my girlfriend is trying to get some people on a project she has been working on for a while and doesn't want any content to be stolen really. What kind of legal work should she setup?
mystic hull
NDAs I believe
ashen lynx
doesn't want any content to be stolen really Truth be told, you can't do anything at that level, apart from choosing freelancers with good reputation. You will not have any resources to enforce any kind of legal aspects.
leaden fulcrum
Good point
shut token
@honest cipher There is opposition to adding a LLVM backend to GDScript because people worry that it'll make the engine too bloated.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
honest cipher
i mean that would absolutely be true
LLVM is bigger than godot engine itself
i think the Zig compiler
which is kinda LLVM + couple thingies ultra-minimal standalone thing
is like 50 mb
thats more than godot istelf
shut token
If done right - it'd be absolutely worth it imo.
honest cipher
(Zig compiler would legit be a great thing to use, because it can compile C, but it can compile it in a fully crossplat way)
so you could generate C code from gdscript
and compile it with that
shut token
I just think people toss around "bloat" far too much and they really undermine what really is bloat.
honest cipher
could be a great optional thing
have a 60 mb or so FAT plugin
that compiles gdscript to C and compiles that C
glossy sorrel
what's the most used software for 3d modeling in the industry?
urban stump
Currently, Maya.
But it depends on where you go of course. Smaller studios I'm sure probably use Blender more.
glossy sorrel
i've seen 3ds max be popular amongst indie studios as well
urban stump
It's used but less so. Maya more or less replaced it in the industry 10 or so years ago when a lot of people in film/vfx came over to games.
plain sleet
MOst used isnt something you want to look for.
Each software is more specialized for specific items. Like zbrush for sculpting, Substance and similar for texturing and so on. Some software can do hard surface / texturing pretty well but has meh sculpting and similar.
Ask your self what you need to be doing and find the software that could do that.
From my experience blender is pretty good due to being very generalist. You can do basically everything there but likely not as efficiently as some other software
strange jacinth
Anyone from Epic. How normal is it at epic to offer remote positions?
honest cipher
not from epic, but i know a couple guys like Sion who does work remote
but as far as i know, the people who do work remote are in high tier positions
either mid tier or senior tier
juniors basically never work remote (in epic or worldwide, really)
strange jacinth
That is a shame but I understand the value of having employees in house. Some of the technical writing like positions have a lot of parallels with my current position but it would be difficult to uproot my family at this point. Dreams stay dreams lol. Thanks for the input @honest cipher.
fickle hatch
Junior positions shoudln't be fully remote by their nature - usually being a junior implies some degree of mentoring from other people, which is significantly less effective remotely
strange jacinth
True but the positions I was looking at were not inherently entry level. I could see a need for a couple of weeks of onboarding but it would entirely be possible to be performed remotely.
I see where you are coming from though. I had received an email from an assistant candidate before this whole pandemic thing but had to turn them down as they wanted to work remotely.
buoyant solstice
What's up everyone I'm new here and want to be apart of conversations lol what's everyone talking about?
honest cipher
@fickle hatch i had a couple interns working remote
it was a disaster
because they would go work on their 3d asset, come back the next day, and basically the entire thing has to be remade or thrown because its deeply flawed
a flaw that would be seen if it was in an office real quick
and fixed easily
shadow kelp
You'll see remote working being offered a lot more now that every studio has had to adapt to remote working.
lilac walrus
dunno, in our case we just stopped hiring
flat gazelle
I started a new job remotely during all this. It's a pain in the ass to get up to speed. I can only imagine what it'd be like for an intern.
strange jacinth
they would probably need to become a Zoom pro lol
shut tree
i could see level design in multi user editor work
virtual production type stuff
but now u work at a big studio and u cant use their fancy stuff like huge touchscreens or 100.000$ camera setups 😛
lilac walrus
I don't think many, if any studios use multi-user editor in a production environment
nova tartan
The extent of multi user editor stuff I use with my colleagues is google docs
when it comes time to actually add code though, it's most efficient with just one person working on any given component at a time lest they accidentally repeat or overwrite eachothers work
shut tree
ya true prolly not used much
altho blender also has stuff like that
constant visual feedback is the key for it working i guess
well i heared blender has stuff like that for big teams, never actually used it or even looked at it
shadow kelp
Having lots of people working towards making one game isn't a new problem though, and not unique to remote working. Covid has meant that studios have had to get their infrastructure and working processes up to speed for remote work, and are likely to support more remote working in future.
I'm going to take some persuading to get back in the studio 5 days a week :P
mystic hull
As someone who's always worked remote, I couldn't agree more 😛
gentle sand
Any tips for getting better/gaining experience at programming gameplay mechanics? I feel like I'm not learning much with the current project I'm making, I see a lot of amazing games with unique gameplay mechanics and I would have no idea how to do something similar or where I could learn to do such a thing
nova tartan
I am a more "classically" trained software developer/programmer(CS degree + work at software startups), and I can usually work out how they did something just by thinking "how would I have implemented this system".
Sometimes the game devs do something particularly brilliant, but that's kind of rare.
I would say just more programming experience in general such as contributing to open source projects, getting a CS or similar degree, working with an experienced team that can mentor you, actively thinking about how you would implement gameplay mechanics you see in games you like and possibly implementing prototypes for practice
I don't have any special tricks unfortunately, just practice and training
Maybe break down the elements of the gameplay into smaller and smaller parts until you understand them. It can be hard to mentally comprehend how a whole system works at once, but reasonable to understand it's sub components
ruby wasp
The best programming advice I ever got was that: break things down into smaller parts
lilac walrus
Learning to build systems is definitely a skill that takes time; working with smaller concepts rather than tryin to break down bigger ones may actually help the learning process a bit better (since part of the ability to build big systems from scratch is being able to mentally visualise the whole thing)
it can also help to implement other people's ideas; since it'll force you into thinking about problems that you otherwise might not have done
mystic hull
Couldn't have said it better, but I'll add my extra 2 cents: Read, watch & learn how other people solved their problems
Then try to do it your way. Not better, just your way
gentle sand
Thanks for the advice, I looked to a UE4 open source projects list and none caught my attention, any recommendations? I guess it doesn't have to be specifically a UE4 project
lilac walrus
I don't think UE4 projects can be open source
that would probably conflict with the license terms
craggy nacelle
I don't think it conflicts with anything if you opensource your code. You just can't share the engine source.
lilac walrus
licenses like GPL are totally incompatible with UE4's license
craggy nacelle
GPL is not the only opensource license though
lilac walrus
true, MIT may be acceptable, but this is one of those cases where you do really want to be careful
craggy nacelle
Yeah licensing is a can of worms :D
lilac walrus
"You may not combine, Distribute, or otherwise use the Licensed Technology with any code or other content which is covered by a license that would directly or indirectly require that all or part of the Licensed Technology be governed under any terms other than those of this Agreement (“Non-Compatible License”). Code or content under the following licenses, for example, are prohibited: GNU General Public License (GPL), Lesser GPL (LGPL) (unless you are merely dynamically linking a shared library), or Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Code or content under the following licenses, for example, are allowed: BSD License, MIT License, Microsoft Public License, or Apache License. You may not sublicense the Licensed Technology under a Non-Compatible License."
vernal laurel
What about this license, http://www.wtfpl.net/, it’s literally the license I use in my open source projects lol
winged chasm
I've never done contract work before and someone just asked me for full address "to put on the contract". Is that normal/safe?
ruby wasp
they probably want to have it for invoicing / receipts
that is not unusual
as a sole proprietor, your business address is probably your home address
winged chasm
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks
severe latch
wanton finch
i been seeing this game around a lot @severe latch
severe latch
yes
wanton finch
and it looks like the progress is getting better and better each time
where can i follow the game?
@severe latch
severe latch
idk i saw it in work in progress
lean plank
@severe latch Hi, any reason you posted our work in here?
@wanton finch It's Negative Atmosphere 😄
lean plank
Ah, I appreciate the share, if you could ping me first so I could provide some more context before it's posted outside of intended channel, that'd be great 😄
soft cradle
Hello guys this one my animation work, can you guys give me feedback such that I can correct my self.
lyric grove
Why do you think there isn't more use of multi-user editing by studios? Especially now
I think with UE5 a lot of indie studios will take it up
cold ingot
I don't know why, but being able to see assets in the game evolve live seems incredibly motivating.
And helpful
nova tartan
Unless your bethesda bugs will probably sink your game so it makes sense
trail leaf
Bethesda don't seem to get away with it either these days
steel creek
@near falcon lounge.
near falcon
Thank you, I will move there!
winged chasm
Hi, I'm doing some contract work that I have completed and they are asking for me to send it to them before I even see a contract much less sign it. They say they need to review and issue payment. Is this right?
This is my first ever contract for a game feature btw
mystic hull
No, generally speaking, you could issue a refundable invoice with your terms there, and/or send them a demo (without the source) for them to verify things work
These things are usually agreed upon before you do the work, though 😛
Alternatively contracts, as you've mentioned
depends on who you work for
winged chasm
So when I sign the contract do I just trust that he will pay me? Is this how it works?
Because I don't trust anyone over the internet
mystic hull
Eh, it's quite subjective, there are things to look out for
spice dagger
@winged chasm For new Clients, i tend to do a video for proof of work, then require them to make payment, after which i send through the work completed as requested.
mystic hull
I generally prefer to send proof that isn't usable in a production environment
winged chasm
I've already showed him the video
mystic hull
followed by an invoice
spice dagger
Then he should have no issues paying.
mystic hull
^
spice dagger
If he does have issues, that would be a red flag for me.
mystic hull
Pretty much so, and do get these things sorted before working
I got abused a fair bit on failed deals when I'd just started
spice dagger
Make your terms clear and detailed before accepting any work.
Make sure they understand how you want to get paid and what you will do to ensure that they also get a clear idea of what you have done before they need to make payment.
IE: A video demo of the work.
mystic hull
Also, make sure they speak a language you're comfortable with. Quite important this one 😛
winged chasm
Thanks guys, I should have done my research before but I guess I know now
supple timber
are degrees needed ?
because i am not really sure if i pass them exams
and i am really worried about my future
urban stump
If you don't plan on ever leaving the country you live in, no. Skills get you hired, not degrees. But degrees are almost a requirement if you want to work abroad.
At least as an artist. If you're a programmer, can't speak to that.
supple timber
well i am a programmer
nova tartan
Skills are the most important, demonstrated ability to do things(with proof!). Working on shipped products, proof of concepts, other people vouching for you etc.
The easy path for most people is to get a degree though.
I would say a degree is really important for someone focusing on the software development/programming side of game dev, it keeps your employment options open and proves you were capable of passing an accredited course, and a lot of places won't even give you the interview if you are entry level with no degree.
digital gate
@supple timber @urban stump As a programmer, I was almost hired abroad and I don't have a degree. Their country had a gamedev union and the company had to tiptoe around legal requirements because the union wouldn't sign off.
I don't imagine that company would be thrilled going through the process again, though.
The process was simple from my end. I applied, they were incredulous (I didn't realize they were abroad :P) but sent the test when I proceeded anyway. I knocked the test out, they scheduled an interview. We got along pretty well. The rest of it was just waiting on their government
because i am not really sure if i pass them exams
That being said, if your primary concern is that you don't pass your exams... your outlook isn't too good
wary idol
Lets just say I had AAA studios reach out to me without me having any degree. So from my experience a degree is not important at all if you can prove your skill. I'm a programmer so I can't say anything about other roles
digital gate
Not that exams determine success... just that you'd need to be able to address problems & shortcomings, and you're looking to bail out
supple timber
i am kinda devastated
digital gate
You don't have to pass, but you should try to figure out why you didn't/cant
supple timber
its the second time i am trying that
digital gate
If you can pin down what doesn't click, that's better than just moving on and trying to work without a degree (but they're expensive so I don't blame you if you don't go back)
supple timber
what is expensive?
supple timber
tuition is free
digital gate
Ah
It could just be that you don't meaningfully learn the way the prof teaches, but then you'd want to supplement outside of lecture
But in any case, whatever is leading you to not do well in your exams, I'd try to identify it and work through it. It'll be a good exercise for when you're the only person with context into a problem with some code
ashen lynx
If that is too much mental stress, programming in gamdev could be entirely not for you.
supple timber
its the only thing i like to do
programming in game dev
like i have explored more things
and thats the only thing i like
digital gate
Hrm. So what distinguishes the stress you experience here and the stress you will experience later?
When a core feature has a showstopper heisenbug that refuses to debug, and you're flying by the seat of your pants and gut feel... you can't just shut it out.
You have to be able to push through sometimes, if you want to do the "cool things". If you're happy to just do gameplay scripting, you'd find roles that are more consistently what you want as a technical designer. Have you considered that role?
@supple timber You wouldn't be able to just step into that role, but it might be a good career goal
ashen lynx
Thing is you were asking exactly same questions one and a half year ago, and not much changed ever since.
nova tartan
If you don't want to get a degree but do want to be a game programmer, it's time to start practicing a lot and demonstrating your capabilities
nova tartan
Not much I can say other than do your best and keep working at it
If your anxiety problems are this bad a doctor might be able to help
digital gate
Well, best of luck then
shut token
Requiring a degree vs not requiring a degree is highly anecdotal. There have been jobs that I've been passed on simply because the lack of a degree was a showstopper. There have also been jobs that I have received because of my work. It's a crapshoot either which way you go. There is no definite answer. And in a post-covid world, I imagine it may become that degrees matter more honestly (at least for fresh blood). But I ain't got no crystal ball, so who the heck knows.
mystic hull
What I found through personal experience is that there will always be a role for you, somewhere. Whether you manage to snatch the opportunity or not is fully up to you & what you've accomplished prior
Working in games specifically is a hard route to take, degree or not. It'll come down to what you do & how committed you are. I'd wager most people have had to give up a certain aspect of comfort in their lives to get working on the cool stuff
In the end though, you'd be surprised how fast you can learn & get things done if you commit hard enough, that also applies to colleges
That is to say, it's almost entirely a choice, and/or a trade, in some circumstances - one that's yours to decide on 🙂
honest tartan
Hey guys, i'm currently working on my first game pitch to a publisher and was wondering if i have to explain my complete gameplay mechanics? Honestly, doesn't feel right to me to tell them everything...
nova tartan
Have you watched any talks on pitching games?
Here's one example, naturally every publisher will have different preferences
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KxF0PqCwEQ
honest tartan
@nova tartan Thanks for the link, actually i just watched one from GDC 2017. Titled "30 i hate about your game pitch". Will look this one too^^
digital gate
I was going to link that video when I saw your question (before scrolling to see that you've seen it)
nova tartan
Degrees for many programs are definitely not useless
craggy nacelle
even in programming I think they can be useful
programming is often the one where it's like yeah just go to google and learn it in your own time! ... but a degree offers structure, which some people need more than others
mystic hull
Allow me to share my opinion: If a company hires you only based on your title/degree, it's not worth working for
craggy nacelle
probably, but often it's better to have a decent job than no job :D
nova tartan
Most people I see learn just off tutorial have gigantic gaps in their knowledge and lack knowledge of a lot of core principals/architecture
Degrees aren't efficient, but they cover a lot
mystic hull
I'd say that argument can go both ways
It's a lot more efficient to learn your own way regardless of where/when, is what I find to be true
I think what educational institutions really provide is a structure of what to learn, not always the best how to learn, though
craggy nacelle
yeah the structure and the push that you need to study can be useful
I definitely see a lot of folks really struggling to learn stuff when nobody tells them what to do
mystic hull
Eh, I find that discipline beats being forced into it, but to each their own eh? 😛
nova tartan
Like if I have a new hire and say "set up a database and write some queries" and they say "I never learnt sql or databases" arrrrrrgh ok
craggy nacelle
yeah I learned everything myself pretty much, I skipped my programming classes in school because the teacher was like "well he knows more than I do"
mystic hull
That can go for people with degrees as well though, the amount of "please finish my assignment" I found on freelancing platforms was way too high 😅
That came out a little defensive, appologies 🙏
rocky mauve
Hi! I'm getting made redundant from my day job but so i'm now working on a resume for my sound design/composer career. Is there someone in here that could take a look at it and give me some feedback?
last patrol
yeah I learned everything myself pretty much, I skipped my programming classes in school because the teacher was like "well he knows more than I do"
@craggy nacelle Best teachers know there is give and take from students. There is a reason some of the biggest breakthroughs come from young minds not encumbered with what can and can't be done imho.
craggy nacelle
I don't think it's really HR's job to know which students have randomly not been taught the information they were supposed to because that's just impossible... that's why there's an interview in addition to just supplying credentials :P
digital gate
So I think that's actually an opportunity. Fill the gap of knowledge yourself and when you get to the part about SQL in the technical interview you could call out the program's shortcomings and then actually know what you need to anyway
If the flaw is supposed to be so well known anyway...
jovial burrow
I feel like companies are a bit too averse to just training
learning SQL and such is really not that hard
SQL is kind of a shit language though, wish we could've made something more consistent initially, but I guess that is what graphql is for
lots of companies these days seem to be looking for that unicorn that just so happens to know everything they want
when they could've just hired someone who generally knew some of the stuff and just learn the rest in a month
thorn flame
Do I need sql? To get hired in a company ? As a gameplay programmer ?
plucky hatch
You shouldn't need to know sql to get hired as a game developer. But it would depend on your role as a game developer. Whether it's client side, server side, vfx, sfx, modeling, animations, etc.
digital gate
Not unless it's a tiny shop @thorn flame
And even then, they'd likely be okay bringing you on with some missing skills if you could demonstrate a capacity to learn on your feet
upper plinth
is there have any remote work
hybrid phoenix
Plenty
heady flume
I've encountered a few jobs for a "3D Artist" and when enquiring they ask "can you do characters".
Are these project managers being reasonable when they want someone to be a character artist, level designer, Prop and environment artist all in one?
ashen lynx
Depends on scale. Not uncommon for lesser studios.
trail leaf
For small studios, it's very common.
It depends on the teams expectations too
If they're expecting one person to do AAA quality for all of the above, that's sort of dreaming
But something like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xk9dNxPwO8 - I can see one artist doing a lot
heady flume
Cool game - I love Hexen )
ruby wasp
In normal software development, 'full stack software developers' are valued pretty highly. I have gone into game dev with the assumption that a similar approach will be valuable here too - is that true? Or in games, do people specialize a lot more than in other software work?
smoky yoke
Like some mentioned above it heavily depends on scale. The bigger the studio the more specialized people they need.
urban stump
If you're at a small studio, being able to do everything is valued highly. If you're at a large studio, you're only worth anything if you specialize.
So the answer depends on where you are.
smoky yoke
Personally I love the "T shaped" model where you have broad knowledge of many areas and then have some areas where you build expertise and go deep.
ruby wasp
I see gaming as growing overall, so I expect to see more small to middle-sized studios come up in the next 10 years. Is the pay significantly better or worse at big companies?
I heard it varies a huge amount
urban stump
Because it does vary. But from a very broad overview, who do you think is going to be able to pay you better? A fortune 500 company with 1,000 employees working at the studio or a startup eating ramen for lunch?
ruby wasp
for that matter... if I need to hire another developer in 6 months, or an artist, what is a good way to figure out what to expect to pay?
urban stump
It always depends on the person and position, depends on a million things, but generally pay is going to be better at a larger studio I find.
smoky yoke
Yep, and don't forget location. A developer in LA will be much more expansive than in Ukraine.
nova tartan
big companies have way more money to throw around, small studios might get a hit and if you have shares or whatever that could be a huge payoff
I would say to find a work environment you enjoy, being happy at your day job is worth much more than most salary differences
twilit nymph
What would be the best way to summarize my experience if I’ve been on and off of a project for 2yrs?
mystic hull
Too broad, need details 😛
And honestly there's no "best way", there are ways that'll work for X but not for Y, and vice versa
In general though I tend to ask myself the question of how to show off relevant things that I've done in as few lines as possible
which usually means omitting a lot of the details & broadly mentioning the end results - you get asked about those in interviews anyway
nova tartan
It's all about what you can do, so list the stuff related to what you are applying for
If you are a programmer, what did you program? What took all this time to implement?
twilit nymph
Completely forgot I asked that question earlier my apologies xD
Well I was looking at maybe forming a team of 5-6 people but I honestly am nervous. I have source control setup, a pre-production trello board, GDD in google docs, discord development channels. Ig I feel nervous leading my first project but I guess it might also be a good thing to expand my skills
No that isnt a hiring post.
fickle hatch
@twilit nymph it's nervous and it's only gonna get more nervous if you do form it
Gonna be tough but educational
twilit nymph
Indeed. I mean I have experience leading while I was enlisted but this is a different setting and my first game
But anything is possible with hard work!
twilit nymph
@ruby wasp Actually was your question directed to me?
jovial burrow
does anyone even have a consistent vision of what a "full stack" developer even is
ive only ever seen it used as a catch all "do everything" term
nova tartan
That's typically what it means, to me at least.
Full stack means you might be assigned tasks to work on any part of the company.
Website down? Need a database? Matchmaking is behaving weirdly? Game is running sluggishly where it shouldn't?
You're not a specialist at anything but you can do a hell of a lot of things to an acceptable professional standard.
Usually small companies need full stack because they have few employees.
supple timber
ah yes , i dont have motivation to work on games again....
supple timber
not exactly the correct time to travel around the world
fickle hatch
Sadly 😄
supple timber
- i dont have the money to do it xd
supple timber
@fickle hatch well i also feel sick af now
umbral hemlock
Hi Guys
I hope you are well. I am a Computer Games Development student focused on learning C++. I looked for a placement position within the Games Industry however most of them are already full and some studios do not recruit interns at all. However I have received a placement offer from local small development team which creates apps and websites not games related. They offered me a position of Full Stack Developer which will require from me to learn a new language: JavaScript. I have to make a decision and I am not sure if I should accept the offer or not. I know that any experience as a programmer is valuable but will this help me to get into the games industry later on ? I know that I want to be focused more on C++ and most of the game studios require C++ experience. I can see 2 possible decisions:
- Accept the offer and gain some programming experience (not games relevant), additionally practice C++ on the side
- Refuse and continue to seeking an employment within the Games Industry. In case this will fail, continue my studies.
I also asked for an advice my Programming lecturer from my University (great guy I learnt a lot from him) and he advised me to accept the offer as he knows the owner of the company which offered me a placement and he thinks that it will be a valuable experience as a developer.
What you think would be most beneficial for me ?
trail leaf
It does depend a lot on the types of things you'll be working on at the company and what you want to do within the games industry.
If you want to be say a rendering programmer, none of the above experience will help you at all.
Often I find experience outside the games industry to only correlate well if what we want is at all similar. For example, a full stack developer would be great if we were making player account systems for example, as the overlap makes sense (database, HTTP queries etc)
craggy nacelle
assuming the company has good engineering practices you could get experience in typical things like software design, tooling like version control, etc. which can be useful
(this depends of course on your previous knowledge level)
trail leaf
@craggy nacelle I tend to find those types of places have shit software design
Because the jobs tend to be really short.
Like they have to make an app or a website, and they make it in 2 months or whatever and move onto the next client
@umbral hemlock If they are purely contract developers that make quickfire apps or websites, you'll often be moving so fast you'll almost never learn anything that useful. But if they're making something more long term, then it what zomg said could also be true.
Also, your lecturer is going to be biased if he knows the owner.
However, take into account your financial situation as well; it could be good to get some experience and some cash rather than racking up debts (if you have a student loan that is). I think it all depends. My route was through making game mods but I didn't see money from the games industry for a very long time.
craggy nacelle
Yeah it definitely depends, if they mostly make quick customer sites and stuff you probably won't really be able to get into the nitty gritty of it
but if they have their own products then it's a different story - I would at least hope
umbral hemlock
@trail leaf My main areas of interests are AI and gameplay programming. I would also like to add that I have no professional experience as a programmer and all my game related and C++ projects are either University projects or my personal projects. I know the history of the owner and he worked on the game related projects. He is an experienced developer. The money from placement currently is just a bonus for me. What I need the most is experience. Whether I will accept the offer or not, I am going to practice C++ anyway however I will have no professional experience as a C++ programmer and it can be a problem when applying for games related programmer position.
trail leaf
Experience differs from place to place.
There's another game studio in the same building where my office is at
And I usually feel that 1 year of their experience is equivalent to like 3 months of ours
Because we work at really different scales
Personally, I probably wouldn't count any of your years of experience doing Javascript as anything really that useful if I was to hire you for as a gameplay developer
You can write the syntax of what I would need, but that's not really that useful.
Query more about the job and what you'll actually be doing in more detail.
nova tartan
You want experience at a place with good software engineering practices, regardless of the field
I've seen people go to co op terms and it turns out they don't even use source control and their website deployments are fully manual
😬
At that point you would be trying to teach them more than they teach you
trail leaf
Yup.
And it's especially common in fire n forget app / website shops
Because it literally doesn't matter
umbral hemlock
@trail leaf Thank you for your opinion. I really appreciate it. You mentioned that you worked on game mods. Do you think it is a valuable experience for a programmer (maybe even more valuable than being a full stack developer) ? Recently I joined a team which work on the fan remaster of Battle For The Middle Earth (team is called BFME Reforged). I will be a C++ programmer there and most probably I will work on the pathfinding
trail leaf
The client has paid for the website and it's done. You don't need to do anything else, so there's literally no point in practising good code quality etc
We had our website made at such a place, although to be fair they are a step down because all they really do is reskin wordpress
The website is damn broken at this stage that we probably just have to remake it
umbral hemlock
Do you think it will impact my carieer and will help me secure entry level programmer position in the studio ?
nova tartan
People who work on high quality mods have been hired because of their mods before
trail leaf
It will have more relevance, although unsure if they will have good practises etc. Ideally you join a mod team that has some experience
If it is the blind leading the blind ... it ain't going to be great
That's the downside with mods. Lots of the teams will be inexperienced and won't make anything of value (unfortunately)
nova tartan
One important thing:
Don't include low quality work as work experience
I have explicitly rejected candidates because they included links to really awful work in their resume
One small thing that is well executed is worth a hundred poorly done projects
umbral hemlock
There are many experienced programmers within the team. They also require from beginners to complete the test task in order to evaluate the knowledge of the programmer. I as a beginner who joined a team cannot work on the project yet. I have to prepare for the test task which is created by the one of the lead programmers and if I will complete it succesfully I will be able to join the team working on the game. Anyway I cannot tell you how experience are the others as I just joined them.
trail leaf
I'd say that would give you far more meaningful experience than working at an apps / website place.
Although I would be wary of a fan remaster, as it could get taken down
umbral hemlock
@nova tartan I agree. However the problem beginners have is that almost all the first projects will be low quality. I am still a beginner but I can already see that my previous projects are really bad and most probably my current projects also will be bad from the future perspective.
mystic hull
Bad or good is relative to your acclaimed experience
hence your paygrade
People will expect you to not have triple As as someone who's just graduated, I'd personally say get any kind of experience you can if games related isn't available, but for the love of all that's good, steer away from web dev
trail leaf
Especially if they still use Javascript vs Typescript!
mystic hull
At best, you'll learn source control & how to write inefficient code as quickly as possible, at worst, you won't learn anything at all
trail leaf
😄
@mystic hull I'd say at worst @umbral hemlock could pick up a lot of really bad habits.
mystic hull
That's more true than my statement yeah 😛
trail leaf
@umbral hemlock If you haven't read TheDailyWTF.com, I encourage you to read it.
nova tartan
There is a thin line between brilliant game dev problem solving and the dailywtf
umbral hemlock
Thanks guys for your opinions. I really appreciate it and I will take them into account before I will make a final decision.
trail leaf
Welcome.
exotic plume
Web dev isn't that bad 😄
nova tartan
I find that a bit silly because there are so many frameworks and 5 years from now they will (probably) all be different again
craggy nacelle
if it's a jr position it's probably more about being able to get up to speed without having to teach them everything
the good thing is that if you already know one modern JS framework chances are the others are gonna be pretty similar so you can pick it up in a few days :P
exotic plume
Exactly ^
shadow kelp
I find that a bit silly because there are so many frameworks and 5 years from now they will (probably) all be different again
@nova tartan 5 years? More like 5 months 😛
plucky hatch
Hi, so.. I am right now abit confused in the sense of developing - I am a 3D Modeller from roblox and I've made everything I used myself, I've never relied on anybody or anything else - I'm trying to move up to bigger and better things, but from what I am getting you use alot of free or paid content to make a game? Maybe I am wrong but from what I'm seeing thats the sorta gist I am getting.
Here is just some of my work.
mystic hull
@plucky hatch depends on who the "you" refers to
Indie af devs, sure, they'll scrap whatever free/paid content they can
but for the majority of publishable projects, that are aimed at profit, people will either outsource (comission) paid work, or hire in-house devs to do it
plucky hatch
I see.
Do people ever just make every single thing down to the materials themselves though?
eager hare
Sure
Lots of peiple
But it takes them 8 years to finish a game 🙃
Some people even write their own engines
remote saffron
or their own programming language
mystic hull
or they make their own hardware
nova tartan
heady flume
Programmers have no sense of humour 🤓
urban stump
<@&213101288538374145>
pastel estuary
@left saffron rules buddy, read em.
left saffron
Oh sorry yes of course. I'm also new to Discord and I'll try to use the bots as described there. Thanks buddy.
rotund nymph
@umbral hemlock What a coincidence, I started helping in BFME Reforged as programmer some weeks ago. I am not looking for a game-industry career, but I wanted programming experience, also I am a fan :)
So far, I can say that coming from a non-IT background, I learned a ton of things, from version control to programming and C++ stuff. The other devs have been really helpful and encouraging, and just the experience of being part of a working team and adapting to it has been enriching so far.
umbral hemlock
@rotund nymph I’m a fan too. This is the main reason I joined the team. Another is that I also wanted to be a part of a larger team (so far I have only worked in teams of up to 5 members). I hope that I will also learn many thjing related to gamedev and gain experience in C++ as well as in UE4. I am happy that I will be able to help in the development of BFME Reforged.
rotund nymph
@umbral hemlock I look forward to seeing you there, good luck with the test task ;)
I am sure you will nail it
twilit nymph
My current experience with game development has been this. My trees seemed too bright so I adjusted color, brightness, etc. well fast forward two months later and I still having issues and I talk to my friend who does 2D art for a few minutes and he says the leaves are too translucent. Problem solved. Lol
full flower
I'm not really sure where to discuss this really, but it's career-related, so.... maybe here....?
I'm only just starting out in this field of work. My first proper model I made unaided from start to finish was a sword, which, although flawed, came out good enough that a game studio has offered me paid work to make some weapon models for them.
Since I'm new to this, I have no idea what the ballpark is for hourly rate for my work. Hell, I don't even know where the ballpark is!
Could anyone offer some very rough guidelines, or a link to something on the subject?
The level of quality of my work would be equal to my sword, but logically higher, as I keep improving. I'm unhappy with the textures for the sword, mind, and I will be using Substance Painter from now on.
Sorry for the spam, but that's all of it!
trail leaf
@full flower My recommendation is, figure out your costs for doing the work on a daily basis. Ensure you cover everything, rent, power, hardware, software, etc. Then check taxes and what you have to pay for every dollar that you earn. This is your overhead cost. Add in a salary amount that is either minimum wage or above it. Adjust depending on what you want. Finally add 33% to your over head + salary and that should get you a value that I would consider reasonable pay.
You can also calculate a min and max amount. Ask for max and barter no further than min.
full flower
Thanks for the advice, @trail leaf!
trail leaf
Welcome, good luck.
hybrid phoenix
Also, don't charge <$20 - low prices will screw your own future perspective, as well as the overall market
gentle sand
I'm reading UE's source code, I want to understand how the AI navigation works and also as code reading practice, but I have less than a year of programming experience, should I keep going or would it be recommended to start with a smaller code base?
fickle hatch
@gentle sand keep going. Identify parts of code you don't understand, mark them somehow (for your memory) and just ignore them and move on. You will have to go through code many times
Your goal shouldn't be to understand it all at once right away, but instead to first understand things that you can understand, understand logical relationships and then slowly start filling out the blanks about what parts of code you don't fully understand
Big codebase or small codebase, I don't think it matters in particular. UE4 codebase quality is decent enough to where reading it doesn't require intricate knowledge of the entire engine
Just don't overwhelm yourself. Try to follow chains of function calls and object types (where what types are used) and then isolate just small chunks that you feel comfortable with
gentle sand
Thanks, it's not that overwhelming after putting some hours into it, after watching a few conferences it got easier too, and indeed I imagined that the difference between this and a smaller code base wouldn't make much difference but I still wanted to ask more experienced people
fickle hatch
I think what matters more is the quality of codebase rather than it's absolute size
UE4 is just a large collection of small codebases in some philosophical sense :V
potent eagle
So I am looking for some career advice. I have been learning ue4 as hobby for the last 5 years on and off. During this time I graduated high school, attended and graduated film school and worked in the film industry for well over a year. As I still have my passion for making games I always have ideas for games but I was always against learning how to code until covid-19 kick me and my career to the curb. So I came back to game making. I finally decided to try and learn programming in C++ and I'm definitely enjoying learning it. I am enjoying trying to solve the problems for the most part and now I'm stuck with how my industry has opened to be entirely domestic. Which makes it harder for me to get a job. So I feel like I'm at a cross roads cause I want to make games but I also want to be able to still work in the film industry (I know unreal is great for the digital image background) but im not sure if I want to try and keep pursuing the idea of making games as a hobby or as a professional.
digital gate
You could treat it as a serious hobby; sort of like a part time job? That's a hard call; you have footing in another industry you're passionate about. Games is a hard field. Films (for you) sounds like temporarily at-capacity (you won't find work rn). Neither will be an easy path, but I'd lean towards games until film opens back up?
marsh stream
Is there anything 'different' or 'unique' about writing cover letters to game companies? in regards to things like length, how formal it is, etc?
I've been doing research and lots of different answers to what the cover letter should 'be'. Some say a 'love letter' to the company youre applying, others a formal letter detailing your skills and passion for games, etc
I guess any general tips would also be appreciated
twilit nymph
What do you guys use to track the hours your dev team members work?
I’ve been looking around but ig I’m not wording it correctly?
mystic hull
I find tracking hours is outdated & if someone wants to slack off, they'll find a way around it easily
Hire people you can trust, track their results, daily commits, etc
be up to date with the problems they're facing, so you're able to guestimate how long things would take
I'd imagine that doesn't work for bigger teams, so just my unpopular opinion 😄
eager hare
My company uses Absence
For personal contract work I use Boosted for Android
@twilit nymph
twilit nymph
@mystic hull You do have a point
trail leaf
We just use a spreadsheet split into 15 min chunks.
However for us, it is less about tracking people are doing work but for checking against estimates.
nova tartan
Tracking hours can be important for tax benefits
ie how many hours did you guys put towards this project which qualifies for this tax break
twilit nymph
Wouldn’t it also be usefully for the marketing manager so that they can properly price the game?
trail leaf
Pricing is usually figured out at the start ... usually
plucky hatch
spy drones
candid swan
Hey everyone! I've been working on this compilation for quite a while, and today it's finally out! https://bit.ly/The_Bible_Of_Game_Audio_Jobs
lucid plover
Put up an ad last night, looking for a technical UE4 artist; received a lot of replies in broken english from Russia/China.
Wondering if you guys know of anyone who is currently unemployed, highly talented, who resides in the San Francisco Bay Area.
The gig is for a running virtual production stage and is urgent. Like Monday urgent. Good pay, Bay Area rates.
plucky hatch
put up an ad online
On a completely unrelated note
I'm thinking about becoming a labourer but I worry about job stability and whether it will be too gendered
red crescent
@plucky hatch I feel like that's a meme, but the sad thing is that it's actually so true that it's not really a meme anymore.
magic fable
Hello, I'd like to look for a job modeling for games. However, I don't have a portfolio yet to put in the application. What can suffice for now? Would a drive link work?
I will get around to making one eventually.
trail leaf
Surely putting images up on Artstation shouldnt be too tricky?
magic fable
Doesn't artstation ask for your name?
I'm not a huge fan of putting my full name in public online, I'm okay with it for business purposes however.
I could set up an artstation, if it lets me just go by my simple online name.
mild terrace
Why not just fill in your online name then?
If your online name is a single word, maybe you can try separating it into two, or using whatever bogus word for the second word?
Or just use a random name like John Smith or sth.
Just don't do this for LinkedIn I guess.
quaint aspen
I’m going to guess Circus Painter is not a real name. Probably.
In any case having a solid presence on Artstation at this point is definitely recommended. Linkedin for artists basically, I think you can actually link your account on both sites?
supple timber
what kind of portfolio do i need as a programmer?
mystic hull
What do you want to do as a programmer?
nova tartan
When I hire programmers I very rarely have time to look through their code, that's a very time consuming activity and I have 50 resumes to review
Make a github put any nice/completed projects on their and it will look good
there's no real requirement imo
split quail
Does anyone have any people they work with or know where i can find information on what a non US resident whom is an LLC partner would have to file if they lived in the UK.
Company is US based and 1 partner is in the UK, we know what we have to do for our side of things. But we need to know what has to happen for his side.
buoyant peak
Where should I post if I'm looking for someone to critique my demo reel?
it's a 3d environment artist reel
jovial burrow
linkedin is the worst parts about every social media
the success flaunting/bragging and the "influencers" who put up all this "motivational" bullshit when they have no idea what they are talking about half the time
scarlet fulcrum
I had not considered Linkedin from that angle before @jovial burrow
But it does remind me I should update mine, thank you 🙂
steel creek
tools are tools. Stop investing life breath into tools. Just use em.
onyx jewel
@buoyant peak how about ArtStation
buoyant peak
@onyx jewel Haven't received any feedback from there
onyx jewel
@buoyant peak join the dinusty empire discord and post it in critique section, you will get replies within hours, i posted my environment work recently and got very helpful ideas from people over there.
@buoyant peak i am also working on my environment artist showreel.
buoyant peak
@onyx jewel Oh cheers, yeah I just looked now it looks perfect for me
worthy loom
anyone here from austria?
plucky hatch
eaeaeae
mystic hull
I'd say their official email is probably your best bet
Chats get scrolled up quite fast in here 😛
flat gazelle
And spamming a random employee at the studio is not a good look.
nova tartan
Just go up to their office(no appointment, unannounced), resume in hand, and don't leave until you speak to the boss and get coffee with them! That's how you get a job! Kids these days...
(don't actually do this)
robust drift
Greetings! I hope it's ok to post this here, didn't find any channel about the MegaGrants.
Has anyone applied with a project to the Grants, got a mail saying that it got rejected, and then recently got another mail saying "Sorry for taking so long, we are rewiewing you application but we need more time"?
I don't know if it's a system bug that sent wrong emails, or if they are re-considering older projects, but just wanted to know if anyone has heard anything about it or had simmilar experiences.
hazy compass
hi! is anyone from epic on this slack? i wanted to apply to work at epic after briefly talking with tim sweeney about what i might do there, but the person whose job post i was replying to is either on vacation or swamped, so i'm not sure where to reach out now.
@echo jackal ew
echo jackal
i got in touch, thanks i guess
broken hollow
What are some common game design interview questions?
broken hollow
I see thanks
dire furnace
@broken hollow what kind of position?
ive had some ranging from QA to Design, to IT roles
broken hollow
Associate Game Designer
This role is focused on MMORPG game(s), Im familiar with the genre and have played several in the past
open pulsar
im an incoming highschool sophmore and next year i plan on looking for an internship in game dev or software engineering
what should i do to stand out?
nova tartan
For software engineering, get a computer science degree and contribute to open source projects
open pulsar
i wanna get an internship while in high school ._.
but the open source projects are something i never thought of, ty
where can i find said open source projects
nova tartan
github
open pulsar
aight
still shard
@open pulsar I seriously doubt you'll get an internship while in high school in game dev or software engineering, unless you have a kickass resume and some high-level contacts at whatever company you apply to. All internship positions I've seen are for people that have already learned a good amount while in college, and have programs and references setup through their college program
open pulsar
yeah i highly doubt i will ever get a position but i still want to try
ill probably justw ork at starbucks so i can learn how to make coffee for productive game dev lol
trail leaf
@hybrid phoenix https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jawdropgames/deathground , you meant this project right?
hybrid phoenix
Yup
trail leaf
Oh, ha ha... check the people working on it 🙂
trail leaf
🙂
hybrid phoenix
Wellp, there ya go; genuine feedback from a dinosaur-nerd
trail leaf
All good, seems like it is going well though
hybrid phoenix
Absolutely
minor carbon
@open pulsar It depends why you want an internship, I actually learned a ton with my diploma that sort of fast track me through 3D stuff, I had experience prior but just want it to brush up on skills and learn from professional game devs, that in turn, helped me a ton with how a game should be made, if you can't get an internship, perhaps something of that route might be of interest.
I know people will hate "video game collages" but, I found it was beneficial to me because it was extra knowledge, if I was very new to game dev then I wouldn't have excelled at my tasks, I feel the past 4 years were me just 'catching up', which now I can offer advice, which I don't think it would've happened without the conversations I had for the 3 years I was at the diploma.
My advice is to open up UE4 and start making things, anything, the issue I found with companies is they will tell you what to do and that can often be passionless projects that you find a chore, even if you can't do anything, research on game design is always something you can do, as well as breaking down game mechanics.
And yes there's nightmare stories of some collages that offer some type of videogame stuff too, it's kind of luck to get something good.
nova tartan
Engineering/Software engineering is a bit wild in how fast they want to be considered senior
"I've been working for 3 years where's my job title!"
minor carbon
pretty much has taken me years to get to a point I could tutor people or get paid for a prototype game idea
craggy nacelle
Master Engineer, Lord of Softwares
considering my last job where I had business cards my email address was zomg@ourdomain.com I could probably have had that title too lol
minor carbon
I find myself helping people on facebook, and various discord groups, it's the only way I've been able to either brush up or increase my knowledge, after my current game is done or I run out of work, I might do a bunch of small games to see if I can skill build.
I've recently started thinking I should do a horror game but with nothing but default assets and see if I can make it scary to show off to people that you do not need awesome graphics to make an engaging game
i feel i lost a lot of time growing up while the internet wasn't widely used
if I was 15 nowadays I would've been having a field day on learning
supple timber
i think i am going to get in uni this year pog
minor carbon
I had a c64 and the instruction manual, but in a miner town there was nothing
nova tartan
there should have been lots of hardware in a bitcoin mining city
minor carbon
i remember making a 'gun sound' when I was 8 i think, it was garbage
yeah text adventure or mazes for me
given i didn't understand any of what I was doing
craggy nacelle
first stuff I ever made was MS-DOS batch file based text adventure games
supple timber
i should be ok with a degree right?
craggy nacelle
I might have some of them on floppies, but my floppy drive won't read them :(
need to try to perform some kind of miracles to make them read better probably
nova tartan
A degree is an excellent starting point, but think about your abilities while learning
What can you actually do? If you would like to enter game dev, what can you contribute to the project?
minor carbon
I always wish I did proper programming at school but they limit it to visual basic, so I made a castle shooting game with "physics"
craggy nacelle
I don't think VB6 is actually that bad
it's just really easy to write garbage in it because it's not a very strict language
lol
I started with C but decided it was a pain and did PHP instead 
well, I mean I really started with DOS batch scripting, but after that
minor carbon
I had this programming teacher when I was being taught some C#, I use to troll him asking about goto statements
craggy nacelle
That's mean lol
minor carbon
I think I was saying "So, we use a goto statement there, right?"
I remember him saying "Nooooooooo!!"
nova tartan
all my highschool classmates who didn't understand programming kept trying to use timers for all logic 😬
rather than have events occur when they logically should, they would try a timer that would check every tick
I loved VB6 UI stuff though it was really easy, I miss it tbh
craggy nacelle
yeah the form designer in Visual Studio is great
at least for basic winforms stuff, I don't know how it works nowadays when applications are expected to look a little bit better
mystic hull
at least for basic winforms stuff, I don't know how it works nowadays when applications are expected to look a little bit better
Horribly, it works horribly 😄
It's a lot more taxing to create front-end for win apps nowadays than it used to be
Last time I tried was a couple years ago though, so grain of salt
craggy nacelle
I guess that's why so many folks just use Electron or something :P
UI's are fairly easy with HTML and CSS afterall
mystic hull
pretty much so yeah
and the portability, as well
Regardless of my hate for it, it's still the easiest way to build cross-platform apps 🤔
silent quarry
gilded fox
@silent quarry is there any chance for students or who wants to learn this fellowship program but doesn't have any past experience in industry,
do you know anything about it.
silent quarry
I don't know. I just shared the news.
mortal vapor
Curious and curiouser. The Fellowship program is sorta chicken/egg for vprod, IMHO.
stoic elk
What's the best way to begin making my own game and learn the game engine (or other programs I might need) as I go? I plan to make something like a 2d story driven platformer or a 3d thirdperson horror game
lucid dragon
Looking for some career advice from any producers here with industry experience if any are knocking about😁
hybrid phoenix
Your best bet for that sort for thing is generally to just post here
plucky hatch
Does someone now how to make this:
I need a object, and if you hit that object you will respawn ad you're starter location. I'm a bit new to unreal engine, and i can't find a video of it
?
supple tusk
Does someone now how to make this:
I need a object, and if you hit that object you will respawn ad you're starter location. I'm a bit new to unreal engine, and i can't find a video of it
?
@plucky hatch #blueprint #cpp
plucky hatch
I'm considering working on construction sites but I'm worried I'll get fired if I act too feminine
hybrid phoenix
That is nowhere even near the topic of this server
night bolt
We are doing a game me and a friend and someone told me we should focus the textures on the game engine is that true ?
digital gate
they literally won't care so long as you do the work CodeB (though you will be teased), but this channel is a bit more focused on games-careers
lofty night
How important is specialized labor when it comes to the UE4 workflow? I ask because i heard somewhere that the amount of work involved
in learning UE is broad and can spread any solo developer very thin in terms of labor. Any thoughts??
mystic hull
That statement is generally true for any kind of experience or job
digital gate
Assuming you need to hit the entire footprint of the engine, yes you would be spread thin.
If you just need to make a game and learn systems as you go, it's far more manageable
lofty night
ah ok. Im just taking this from the prospect of a small development team. I get the feeling that it would make more sense to use other engines when dealing with scaled down projects, I'm just wondering because it seems every game developer that uses EU wants to make some ridiculously huge project that never gets finished.
digital gate
It might be true that another engine is easier or makes more sense, but UE itself can be effectively used at any scale
tawny kayak
I generally only use UE for small scale projects and I don't have any particular problems managing them because of their small size.
I'm making a first-person puzzle platformer with 1 other person, and we've never felt like the engine was pushing back because of our small team size.
digital gate
I've used it to great effect at many scales
tawny kayak
I think UE's scalability is one of its strengths.
lofty night
That's reassuring. I have a fear of losing my friends interests in game design if I force them to learn something super complicated. I don't want to overwhelm anyone.
tawny kayak
No matter what engine you use, working on a small team is going to necessitate each person covering more bases.
digital gate
If you're worried about them getting scared off, maybe you should propose a bit of an "engine tour" where UE4 is used for a small learning project along with some of the others
If they seem the type to throw in the towel you could even "work up" to UE but I will caution that making games is work regardless of engine
lofty night
Thanks for the advice! Ill find a engine tour or something to see if we are on the same page with our design goals.
broken hollow
How often do game designers in the AAA industry have to use math?
I have worked on smaller teams before and I found myself working out damage numbers, character traits and so on given the nature/context of the game itself. Though I believe there are actual System Designers and such in place that handle the actual math?
craggy nacelle
This sounds like a "I'm bad at math" type question :)
Most people are bad at math because they never were taught it in school in a good way, and if they find something they are more interested in they can learn to do it just fine
broken hollow
Nah Im fairly good, just curious about how much game designers have to handle it given there are System designers and programmers working on different aspects of a game.
craggy nacelle
It probably largely depends on the game. You might need to crunch statistics or something for balancing in some games for example
wary idol
Well if you are a physics programmer you need it quite a lot
flat gazelle
Game designers are very seldom physics programmers in my experience.
tacit siren
they should have at least a basic grasp of probability, statistics and linear algebra imo
nova tartan
I would add geometry to that too
ember rapids
hello
prisma mica
Does anyone have tips about entering into the business? I've been working with and teaching myself how to use unreal for 5 years, but have no portfolio. It seems like they're important to get work but how do you build a portfolio without work?
EDIT: I do have projects that are WIP and almost finished, and have a few side jobs that are unpaid or low payment. Do these count towards creating a portfolio?
broken hollow
What do you want to enter in the business as?
prisma mica
I prefer programming all around, I've got decent experience in a lot of the engines features for AI and interaction, the only position I can't do is graphic and level design.
digital gate
This seems easy enough... put one together. Figure out a mechanic you can make which allows you to demonstrate several core bits of knowledge. (Input/Physics/UMG, for instance). Not even full jam games, just slices.
Do that 3-4 times, find a team to make a jam game with, and you're well on your way. Something I found personally successful is making engine changes that get accepted to the engine.
@prisma mica I wouldn't expect much in terms of response from cold application even with a decent portfolio
I got spotted by somebody who wanted to work with me
prisma mica
Okay thank you for that just trying to get started and prove my capabilities is the hard part then
nova tartan
Yeah 5 years of casual unreal development but nothing to show for it is a is a red flag to someone hiring
Find you most promising projects, reduce the scope to something easily explained and demonstrated, and polish them to a professional level, voila, skills!
worthy kettle
@prisma mica If you don't have career, maybe you can try another thing that my friend did: He didn't want to do career, so he worked very hard and did a master without career, which is very good too. Also he worked at normal programming jobs, just asking to all companies he could, and one of them hired him, and after that he climbed. So maybe Editor Insomniac you don't work in a videogame company at the beginning, but if you work as a programmer maybe in 1 or 2 years of experience you can try to apply to a videogame one
@prisma mica The tip he gave me also was to make a portfolio asap, and asking all companies without fear, even if the companies asked for experience
plucky hatch
@worthy kettle Can you share good portfolio example, I am a beginner too and this can lead me
prisma mica
@worthy kettle thanks Uri, I kinda picked up Unreal as a hobby when I was a teen which is why I've been using it for so long without a portfolio
worthy kettle
@plucky hatch I think this one is pretty cool https://joebrogers.com/
@prisma mica Well the thing is that you know how to work with unreal! So making a portfolio is just a matter of time
If you put the work you will get to the industry eventually
prisma mica
I have accepted a rather large integration project and it's teaching me how to work multiplayer, inventory, and crafting in a modular system
Which I've always set up manually without a framework
worthy kettle
Oh damn, working on multiplayer, that seems cool
You could add that to the portfolio
prisma mica
It's a pain to do but worthwhile, where would you suggest creating a portfolio?
worthy kettle
For creating the portfolio I don't know that much, I used to learn 3D, and we use artstation and such, but for programming I don't know that much yet, I am still on the career 😢
But I see there is a lot of developers that use their own website
prisma mica
Okay then, I might just finish up my game and release it that'll be a solid start for my portfolio. I'm the only developer on it
worthy kettle
It could help using Linkedin maybe
shadow kelp
You'll want at least a decent video showreel of your work. Ideally some code on github.
A decent, focused bit of work like a plugin or specific feature is better than an amateur looking game demo
digital gate
Came to suggest GitHub in particular.
Showreels can be good but unless you're doing a unique mechanic you should try to highlight the code.
marsh stream
Hi guys, in regards to what looks better on your portfolio.
Is it good to have a game published on Steam even if it is Free? As in, is it better to publish it to Steam than Itch.io ?
or is it not a big deal unless its a commercially viable game
nova tartan
Pushing a low quality game to steam won't make it look good in a portfolio
marsh stream
Yeah understood. Thanks
twin dragon
guys , do you need an animator for your game ?
native barn
Hey guys, do you need a game dev for ur game ? Either C++ or Blueprint or even Unity engine.
I am a recent computer science grad, I have done multiple courses and personal projects you can see here https://mazenmorgan.com/
feel free to msg me on discord !
mystic hull
#looking-for-work is more suited for that kinda content
native barn
@mystic hull Thank you !, ill post it there and delete this msg
@mystic hull Any idea how to post there as i dnt have permission ?
@plucky hatch Thanks Alot
polar coyote
I am trying to make an educational/interactive game related to pathology. I am still trying to learn blueprints and I have no background in programming. I am also learning C and C++ via skillshare. The problem is I am a one man army. I have already achieved good results in 3d modelling, sculpting, UVs, texturing and a bit of animation. I am using blender, substance, quixel and UE4. May I know what are the points I need to take before hiring/collaborating with someone to make blueprints for my game and help me deliver it as a game without my idea being stolen? No offense, I am just scared that my idea/game would be stolen or imitated though. Thank you
trail leaf
Ideas are only stolen if there is some proof that there is money to be made.
polar coyote
well i do have to agree with that
chrome bone
I am trying to make an educational/interactive game related to pathology. I am still trying to learn blueprints and I have no background in programming. I am also learning C and C++ via skillshare. The problem is I am a one man army. I have already achieved good results in 3d modelling, sculpting, UVs, texturing and a bit of animation. I am using blender, substance, quixel and UE4. May I know what are the points I need to take before hiring/collaborating with someone to make blueprints for my game and help me deliver it as a game without my idea being stolen? No offense, I am just scared that my idea/game would be stolen or imitated though. Thank you
@polar coyote The likelihood of your project being good enough (or others seeing the opportunity) to get stolen is lower than the risk that your project never sees the light of day because you don't bring on contributors and help. That isn't at all an insult or criticism but based on 1000's of data points and similar outcomes.
polar coyote
yes, I do realize that it might not see the light of day 😆 After doing all these stuff from 3d modelling to UE4, I had to learn everything and it seems i cant do it alone. This is really not my field and more of a hobby but I wanted to make an interactive game or tool for me to combine ue4 and pathology. So I just want to know any tips when collaborating or hiring someone
peak saddle
nova tartan
Before you work with someone, get a signed agreement, written by a lawyer.
A lot of people skip that step and it causes terrible problems down the line.
tacit siren
and NDA is pretty standard when you hire a freelancer
merry hawk
Always always always get agreements in writing....even an email can be considered a legal binding agreement in some cases. If you are unsure...spend the money to have a NOTARY stamp your paperwork.
When people sign on to a project it holds both you and the team responsible / accountable.....don't do any work for "free" or to "land" a position......most people use that as a way to get free stuff without actually bringing you on.
quick cypress
i think this is the right place to put this,
Our kickstarter is live! have a geeze if you are interested 🙂 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glassfangs/haraldur?ref=discovery_newest
its kinda... welsh mythology type dealy with some fun directional combat to play with
still willow
@quick cypress looks cool but I feel like the goal is too big for what is shown
quick cypress
The rpg end product or the beat em up that's initially proposed?
wary idol
10k is also not that much for a project, that's like 2-3 months of paying someone to work on the project
still willow
it's not much for a project, but I don't see how 10k will put them fulltime to the project
uncut zinc
@quick cypress @still willow @wary idol I think, the most common mistake is look at Kickstarter as a source of funding. The only thing that Kickstarter and other similar platforms offer - convert your following into pre-order.
still willow
@uncut zinc well if seeing kickstarter as a form of funding is wrong, then kickstarter has failed to deliver their vision. I agree that Kickstarter is more like a marketing tool though.
uncut zinc
@still willow not even that. i worked on a few successful campaigns there. same story all the time. you get your following for your project first. when the numbers are critically high, you punch additional ad campaign + keep reaching out your following, then you say - my dudes, here's the place where you can drop your cash so you could play that you followed so much time already.
still willow
sure mate not disagreeing with you
but they obviously haven't done that for Haraldur
uncut zinc
@still willow sure thing. i believe it worth opening an additional text channel for marketing and distribution tools where people can share their experience.
@still willow so that would help to the rest, who didn't go there yet.
still willow
yeah that post doesn't belong here anyway
And I would actually like to see some kind of crowdfunding channel because learning to crowdfund is important as well in this industry
uncut zinc
@still willow for sure. marketing&distribution or whatever.
still willow
yes
trail leaf
@uncut zinc is 100% correct.
quick cypress
This is really good stuff guys! thanks 🙂 All getting archived
none of us has actually run a campaign before... we are just a bunch of indie game devs a couple years out of graduating, so these insights will really help us tune our approach
winged valley
I'm probably never going to graduate a dev school. I'm a newbie to the extreme of this career. What brings me here is I have an obsession with creating. I'm primarily a writer. I don't want to be 'just the ideas guy' though so I'm trying to learn. You here see stories like this going anywhere?
nova tartan
If you have a passion and keep working at it and getting better eventually people will pay you for your skills
scenic moon
When working on teams I tend to say "we" all the time, how should "we" do this, should "we" add a check before this event, ect.. Then I saw this about a GDC speaker:
"He also gives the credit where credit is due; he doesn't use the subject 'we' over and over, and states whom should take the credit for a particular item presented."
What are your thoughts on this? Am I overthinking it? Not professional? Do you think this does bother some people and is worth breaking the habit?
flat gazelle
I am responsible for fuckups, but we do good work.
winged valley
That's leadership 101 @scenic moon @flat gazelle
nova tartan
It's a little dangerous to mention specific people when saying "great work on X"
because you might leave key contributors out and they will feel slighted
uncut zinc
@quick cypress well as an indie dev you have to think about distribution otherwise whatever you do would end up on D:/Archives
kindred mason
@quick cypress Kickstarters are hard work
Actually, didn't even know we could post ours here, I would have linked it awhile ago 😉
But anyway, not sure it's even #career-chat related. But, you didn't do so well in your first 2 days. You are going to be entering "the valley of death" pretty soon. If you're serious about succeeding, whatever you are doing PR/Marketing wise, stop. And try a new approach.
If you aren't reaching out to media or content creators every hour of every day of your campaign, you're wrong.
If you have the time, redo your trailer. While your voice is definitely much better than mine, it was putting me to sleep. It's too calming.
Also cut everything after 53 seconds unless you can get it into an actual level that's pretty
One issue with your campaign, is you are already admitting defeat
You say that whatever money you make isn't going to be enough and needs to go into early access
Don't
It's also very confusing
Like, what am I backing? Am I backing a brawler or am I backing a roguelike?
Two very different genres
12 followers on Twitter
I would try to build up your community as much as possible in your next attempt ( if this fails and you decide to do another one ) , build up that pre-launch campaign
@quick cypress @still willow @wary idol I think, the most common mistake is look at Kickstarter as a source of funding. The only thing that Kickstarter and other similar platforms offer - convert your following into pre-order.
@uncut zinc
Ah, my bad on those pings, I always forget about that when doing quotes
But yeah, proper crowdfunding is definitely something that every indie should learn, but there's so much material out there, so if you do some research you can be decently prepared. But nothing really gets your prepared for the real thing 😉
sharp galleon
who can help me put multiplayer for my game
scenic moon
hahaha well said @flat gazelle , thank you, that honestly speaks volumes
hybrid phoenix
I personally believe in rolling with "we", because the majority of the team's work is not necessarily worth talking about extensively in a talk, or people simply don't get the opportunity to talk about their work, causing a segregation within the team between those that have contributed in ways that are talk-worthy and those that are not
Saying "we" turns it into a collective effort, which feels a lot more considering towards those that have not directly controlled whatever you're talking about, but did contribute significantly to the overall result
nova tartan
It's even worse because the boring but important work that no one wants to do or pays much attention to becomes even more unattractive because now you won't be acknowledged over the people doing the fun trendy stuff
hybrid phoenix
Precisely
But even just... If you say "we", that includes the full team. If you refer to specific people, those in non-pivotal roles will never be mentioned; administrators, designers, managers, regular artists...
But without them the project would never have happened
kindred mason
So, I've been catching myself going between "we" and "I" a lot during this project.
Especially so during the Kickstarter
I swear I read something also, that "I" feels more personal and more relatable ( I think this was more for email marketing) versus "we"
Regardless, if there's something I didn't do, I just refer to either my teammate's name or usually more often their title (because unless the name has the title, they have no clue who that is anyway)
But no, if there's one person doing a majority of the work, they get the attribution, not "we", that's doing people a disservice imho
nova tartan
There are problems with that.
You probably don't know the actual weight of everyone's contribution unless you worked on it directly, and the larger your teams the fewer items you can work on directly.
If someone does 20% of the work and gets snubbed it still feels bad and their morale takes a hit.
It discourages people from spreading out and providing important small contributions to larger goals if they aren't acknowledged.
kindred mason
I'd hope the boss and project lead would know what's going on in their project.
Not sure what you're talking about with "20% of the work", makes me wonder why they couldn't do the rest themselves
And yeah, if the one that did 80% had to finish it because of slacker 20%. Not sure what the case for argument would be here.
But if you're saying, something like, a 3-dev team. Maybe, their art process is 3-steps, one per dev, that's one process, they all contributed.
nova tartan
Larger tasks require multiple people working on them, but the subtasks involved are not equal in how much work they take
Doing 20% of the work on a larger task doesn't mean you are a slacker, you probably did that then moved onto something else once your subtask was finished, while the person handling the larger part of the task kept going.
If you exclude the person who did the 20% part, they will feel bad.
kindred mason
Think we're on the same page
fresh owl
I much time would it take someone to learn unreal on average so that they can make their own Third person game?
flat gazelle
About 4 medium length pieces of string. +- a month
steel creek
given the correct amount of hope and unicorn farts mixed in to the cheeto bowl eating sessions when brainstorming.
steel creek
💨 💨
peak flax
Software developer with 7 years of dev experience in C# and C++.. Looking for projects to collab. I have UE engine and a dual montor setup. Interested in moving to gaming industry so looking for opportunities to collab for game dev. DM me if any one's interested.
vocal lagoon
Software developer with 7 years of dev experience in C# and C++.. Looking for projects to collab. I have UE engine and a dual montor setup. Interested in moving to gaming industry so looking for opportunities to collab for game dev. DM me if any one's interested.
@peak flax #looking-for-work
peak flax
@peak flax #looking-for-work
@vocal lagoon Thank you Daniell
vocal lagoon
@vocal lagoon Thank you Daniell
@peak flax np
deep forge
Is there an dmin plz here, because i got harassed in the chat by one member of your community...
mystic hull
You can PM <@&213101288538374145>
mystic hull
tawny kayak
@deep forge Hi. This channel is not for feedback or reporting issues. You can reach out to any of us privately via DM. Also, in the future, please don't share screenshots from private conversations in public channels.
quick cypress
https://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/1600116 i started using this platform to retail my assets, what is the opinion of you lot on turbosquid?
ripe comet
Hey industry folk, what skill level do you typically look for in an entry-level engineer? I'm trying to get into the industry just out of school and while I have a portfolio and am applying for as many starting positions as I can, I'm not sure if I'm at the skill level I need to be in order to get a job
nova tartan
When you say engineer, do you mean software engineer?
ripe comet
Yeah, software engineer
nova tartan
The internship/entry level full time devs I hire tend to meet these criteria:
-Good grades in university and/or experience at another company doing similar work.
-Capable of handling normal day to day tasks with small amounts of guidance ( You know how to program, but you need to be trained on our systems/processes)
-Breadth of basic experience with core software development tools/practices. Source control, databases, writing tests, writing documentation, working as a group on one piece of software, code review, common data structures and algorithms
-Speak/Communicate well in the interview
-You seem to have a good head on your shoulders after hearing your "thinking out loud" thoughts while solving interview level programming problems
In short, you seem bright, raise no red flags when solving technical problems, and speak well
ripe comet
Alright, thanks!
Any tips on how to show this quickly in a portfolio/resume, or is this more for the interview phase? I was noticing in Epic's talk the other day about improving portfolios they said that resumes/portfolios typically are only looked over for a few seconds
nova tartan
I usually give applicants github links a couple minutes, just to see if their code is crazy or reasonable. I don't have the time to go in depth, hearing how you think comes out in the interview.
A concise one page resume that looks like effort went into it helps. Remember to try and sell yourself. Any links you include may or may not be clicked, so if there are real highlights adding them to the resume increases the chance I notice it.
I don't have too much knowledge on presenting a portfolio, I mostly look at resumes, and they usually have github links on them so I look at those as well. Very few applicants mention any sort of portfolio for a software developer position.
ripe comet
Great! That should be a huge help to me - thanks!
bleak frigate
Morning folks, I heard at least one person has been contacted about their successful application to the August-September 2020 Unreal Fellowship.
Can anyone help find out if they'll contact everyone who applied to say yes/no?
I've got potential work and don't want to say yes and then risk having to turn down the fellowship's offer.
bleak frigate
Nobody? Did anyone here apply?
flat gazelle
No, it was for film people wanting to learn Unreal. Not the other way around which would apply to most of the server.
polar coyote
If I buy stuff (blueprint, projects, plugin etc) on the marketplace lets say I bought A for a particle FX and B for a project for a mission component. Can I share these two stuff with another person I will hire so that I can merge things in the gameplay I want. So I am hiring him to basically make my gameplay workflow using the assets I bought or so that he could repair or connect things seamlessly. Thank you
kindred mason
Yo, so let's pretend this is me. I am applying for a job. And I show you this:
and
(for brevity and privacy, just keeping it simple and direct to what matters for me looking at it)
No portfolio link. Nothing broken down by projects. This is all you know about the person applying for an Unreal Engine 4 programming job.
A) Would you hire me?
B) Would you ask me more questions?
C) If I was defensive and kept saying the same thing over and over again "Do you know what Full Stack Game Dev means?", would you hire me?
D) If I said, "Maybe Google will help you", would you hire me?
tacit siren
it feels like the person collected buzzwords that sounded relevant and scored itsself at 80+ at all of them
but A-D - definitive NO
kindred mason
@tacit siren Well, honestly, I can't cry too much about the bottom part, cause I have something similar, but it's broken down by programming languages.
But I have a portfolio on the same page 🙂
And my resume is very detailed
Well, I don't have any graphics in my resume
I mean I have that little bar thing on my portfolio site 🙂
tacit siren
in my experience software architecture is a weak point in most
kindred mason
I do need to eventually go back and put some years of something in there, quantify that somehow
tacit siren
listing it and not listing at least 2 languages is an immediate red flag
kindred mason
But yeah, okay, I didn't think I was doing anything silly
Had to politely excuse myself from the conversation
tacit siren
there are very few people who can do programming and modelling well, but seeing skills for both listed makes me think person doesn't even know what job its applying for
kindred mason
Ah, that's ANOTHER thing I brought up
The actual CV I received was very general... and not focused/redone for the job they were applying for
Which is what led to a lot of back and forth and eventually. DO YOU KNOW WHAT FULL STACK GAME DEV IS? , GOOGLE IT! 🤣
tacit siren
odds are if someone listed the office suite but not a single programming language, they don't know a single one
kindred mason
Ooof
tacit siren
if they don't know programming, they don't know software architecture, which usually comes as a skill you should mention few years after the programming skill
mystic hull
I thought my resume was bad...
mystic hull
2014-2020 one im sure isnt yours 😛
kindred mason
Oh no, lol
mystic hull
That sounds like some maturity issues looking for a quick buck, if you ask me
kindred mason
wel
damn
I stopped and didn't bother reading it all
...
But, they listed Private Detective...
Wait okay, let me blur out some things here and discuss why some of this is bad and shouldn't even bother posting for a UE4 job
tacit siren
@kindred mason your listed skills (even though i find listing single/multiplayer odd) all fit into the same bucket
kindred mason
@tacit siren What do you mean?
tacit siren
looking at that, i'd say a programmer with few side interests, all related to game dev
kindred mason
Oh, yeah, that's about it
tacit siren
looking at your applicant, i'd say deosn't have a clue what he/she is/wants to be
kindred mason
Maybe not age appropriate
Alright, I think I blocked out any possible info
Obviously I only concentrated on the things I cared about. But no links to any projects in game development.
honest cipher
my veredict is: its horribly made
a "chief tecnical officer" and yet no programming langs?
like, straight up no mention of any of them
tacit siren
oh they are listed under languages rather then technical skills
mystic hull
wth? Private detective? O.o
tacit siren
bundled with english and italian 😄
honest cipher
also, pro tip
the bars are ass
do not use bars
ig you have to give overview, do something like
Expert skills: X,Y,Z
Advanced Skills: A B C
Proficient in: whatever
ashen lynx
I.. never understood putting up these skill bars. Like.. what is it? Self-appraisal? How was it measured?
honest cipher
giving something like 2 levels (expert vs advanced) is much better
and makes a lot more sense
the bars are very lul
same with stars
tacit siren
and be very sure your expert skills are expert
honest cipher
or something like 90%
tacit siren
because you're likely to get a very complicated question related to it
honest cipher
@tacit siren if someone puts expert in cpp, he is going to get very found out by people who know cpp
because we know that unless you are actually an expert, you are bullshitting
there are very few actual cpp experts
personally that CV sucks
my CV is literally just linkedin
thats the amount of fucks i give
works like a charm tho
its heavily experience/project based
important detail, the project section all points to github or blogposts about it
people love that
we are on 2020, people dont print the cvs. Forget about a "printable" cv with pretty graphics. A linkedin dump, somewhat well structured, and with links to projects/sites/etc will work well
2-3 pages max of whatever it is (pdf)
tacit siren
its also, when you get an experienced programmer without game dev experience, they tend to be far less effective for quite a while
honest cipher
depends on the programmer
if you get a business java dev, he is likely going to be super worthless on gamedev
tacit siren
most applications fit some kind of schema, if you're familiar with it, you can make a solidly structured app of that type
honest cipher
someone who works on simulation, visualization, or AI research could be useful near instantly
tacit siren
games... kinda don't
tacit siren
true, but once i made a business app similar to that one, im confident i can get pretty close on first iteration next time
honest cipher
no one just sits down and designes the entire business app in one go before writing code
ah well, that probably
tacit siren
with games, there is the "this mechanics is not fun, lets ditch it" part
honest cipher
until customer goes "hey, can you X" and everything goes to shit inmediately
tacit siren
in which case you'd want at least some of the code to be reusable for its replacement
honest cipher
the most important quality in game code (after speed), is "deleteability"
how easy is it to nuke from orbit
some times features end ujp changing so much you end up having to throw some of them to the bin and restart
after all, deleteability also means "its not connected to literally everything in the game", which improves mantainability
kindred mason
Cool, glad it wasn't just me 🙂
uncut zinc
When Chinese company offers you triple salary plus % in stocks but asks you... move in China.. what would you do?
hidden timber
Cannot live there because food is not sustainable to survive and cannot eat anything so if anybody
polar coyote
@eager hare Do what you love and be with someone you wish to be with. Yeah this pandemic has really affected as all. Life is short.
torpid sentinel
@uncut zinc I can't quote what you said however, do you have a family?
I was offered a job in canada, amazing pay, I was on about 15000 more than I am now however, they wanted me to move to canada and that wasn't an option for me, so In the end I was fired but I still don't regret not moving bud
also, what is it doing? if you don't mind me asking
dusk cave
Hi everyone. I'm a composer and sound designer and plan on starting to make audio asset packs to sell through the UE market place. was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how to decide what kind of packs to make?
my initial thinking is some musical loops in various styles/genres and some specific SFX packs like magic spells, GUI sounds, horror fx etc
(hope this is the right channel for this... i put it in career chat as i'm not looking for sound design tips etc but more how to pick what might sell)
nova tartan
Have you defined your target market and your competition?
What do hobbyists/indie teams/bigger studios currently do to acquire and create sound assets?
That will help identify holes in the existing marketplace that you can fill with your packs.
Sound design is far outside my area of expertise so I can't help much.
uncut zinc
@torpid sentinel well yeah, family, a house, and a dog
@torpid sentinel same thoughts. to be creative director in their new ip.
@torpid sentinel well, they offered me very high 6 figures + same amount in stocks but China.. i'm like nah. I love my Chinese brothers but going to China, idk. I lived in South Asia for some time so there's no real new things I could see so
dusk cave
@nova tartan exactly the questions i need to be thinking of, thanks for the input!
plucky hatch
hello Guys, im a character artist, looking for epic blueprint developer and level creator/designer. My intension is to make small Games and sell it on Steam with shop etc. absolut 100% seriously ! i lost something about the lockdowns and now i want o turn my hobby into full profit, i have super ideas for 50 games ! lets go
plain sleet
Theres this guy sitting around in the blender main discord saying he is offering jobs for 65k CAD a month. Not per year, But per month. Then he has the audacity to say that he is not trolling.
undone summit
@plain sleet that is a good offering
plain sleet
65k a month.
thats 780k a year
Pretty much no one in our field makes that much doing this stuff
A real good job pays anywhere from 100k-200k
hybrid phoenix
Yeah there's no way that's legit
Anyone looked the guy up on LinkedIn? I'm guessing he doesn't exist
plain sleet
This guy is claiming they pay so much to get the best artist possible. Then proceeds to put the post in the blender discord which is mostly people that do it as a hobby or are learning. Anyone professional rarely pops in there. If you where wanting to find professionals you use artstation or any other of the sites for it
kind jolt
kinda tempted to tell him to pay in advance 🤔 😂
uncut zinc
@plain sleet well depends what you do. producers, vice, creative directors sometimes getting around those numbers.
plain sleet
If you are in management yea you could earn close to that
Even then that amount is likely high, And this guy is hiring management. He is hiring artists
A artist is lucky to get over 100k
green oyster
@kind jolt he'll "pay" in advance for the first week, but send a lot more and ask you to send it back then the check will bounce and he'll vanish 😆
kind jolt
I know 😂 such is the life of scammers
shell garden
ggLocators is hosting a live Q&A next Wednesday at 7pm EST featuring the women of gg, Niccole Minka and Iris Moon! Join us for a session of questions surrounding hiring and employment in the gaming/gamification industries. Register using the link below!
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/1174395375153511435
mortal vapor
Industry compensation sort of should be in that range - which is where movie VFX and the rest of the CG industry should have grown to over the past few decades. Corruption/collusion in the industry broke them all.
gaunt raven
hey guys if i were to have a career in game developing in blueprint and unreal cpp is it important for me to learn c# and other languages too?
mystic hull
I wouldn't say important, but if a dev came to me and said "I know C++ but I can't do things in C# at all" I'd get the impression they're lying
If you know a language, you pretty much know at least the basics of most other languages, by nature of how programming works
And if you know your fundementals (math, data, algorithms etc), you can pretty much employ that to any language you choose
So I would say focus on C++, but at least know a few things in other related languages, enough to be able to create a basic tool in them
gaunt raven
alright thanks
fallen wraith
Hey question about Signing up for steamworks partner program, Im wondering if it is best to sign up as a sole Proprietor or form a company, and what each route would entail, i imagine the company route would involve a lot of legal stuff and setting up a business bank account,
just looking for general advice,
Im in BC Canada
Thanks
ruby raven
is there any music jobs i do custom gaming music or any in general
peak flax
Looking for C++ or c# dev opportunities. Sw dev from India, interested in learning game dev. DM if there are any opportunities please.
7 years of exp developing software in windows and linux, full time visual studio user. No gaming experience but did do some YT tutorials on UE.
ashen lynx
Sir, I think you are exceptionally lucky today, because the opportunity has just presented itself in the form of #looking-for-work channel. Not only you can create your message there, but your potential employers might actually see it. A man of your experience shall definitely try his luck using said channel.
dusky folio
Hey guys, I'm working on updating my portfolio and I was wondering if anyone has portfolios they'd be willing to share for inspiration? I'm considering creating a website to host it
kindred mason
@dusky folio https://victorburgosgames.com
dusky folio
cheers!
hybrid phoenix
https://www.artstation.com/victorgoossens (tech art)
^was personally very much on the fence about my portfolio, but it served me very well earlier this year when I started looking for work
narrow vigil
On my laptop it looks like that too
celest summit
Anyone have critique for my post in #looking-for-work ?
dusky folio
@hybrid phoenix cheers I'll take a look!!
trail leaf
@celest summit list experience.
mystic hull
Anyone have critique for my post in #looking-for-work ?
@celest summit Quite lacking.
1st and most important point: The majority of employers don't care about your personal life, they care about your work. The last thing you want to be doing is having an attitude in your application.
- a) Your portfolio feels like it was quickly patched up with minimal effort, no thought put into it, just so you're able to show something - this kills any chances you'd have otherwise for being hired.
- b)
We were given half the semester and I came up with the UI during the last week.this line in yourUI of Sonic Jumpis a definite no-no, employers will read that if you're assigned a task, you'll slack off until the very last moment before getting anything done. - I found no resume, but your linkedin is disorganized, if you're applying for a specific position, create a resume specifically tailored to that job. Specifically, the delivery & Neo-Generalist entries are out of place. Mention only tangible, useful & usable experience that directly relates to the job you're applying to. Self-employed non-paid work does not count, sadly.
- You mentioned nowhere that you're a graduate, there's only a single project I see that relates to your education. Generally speaking, graduates usually have bigger projects in their graduation year, mention that.
- Neo-Generalist is good, but in this industry it's expected from about everyone. Specialize in something & get good at it. Look up "T-shaped employee"
I'm sorry if this is a little stingy, but hopefully it's for the best 🙂 .
I think at this point you're better off finding a job in another CS related industry that aligns with your college projects, to support yourself & earn your expenses until you have enough time to build a games related portfolio.
shadow wolf
This might sound stupid but I'll ask it anyway ahaha
Since it's not uncommon to not cover versioning on programming schools (at least I think), is it worth it for a general IT position (let's say programmer) to mention the knowledge of the versioning tools such as Git to maintain an organized workflow?
At the same time it's like an industry standard so people should know how to use it
gentle stone
If you are coming out of uni then it doesn't hurt to mention, if you have been working before im thinking it's a given
shadow wolf
I am not exactly coming out of uni but still coming out from school so yes
gentle stone
Just my opinion though, I've work experience but am not a veteran of any kind
Yeah same thing
shadow wolf
Ok, thanks for the input
celest summit
@celest summit list experience.
@trail leaf
Vice President of the Game Development club back in college. During game jams at my university, I was always the designated artist on the team. I'm very flexible and great at handling stressful situations. In fact, my job as VP of the game development club was to handle all emergencies.
Game jam profile:
https://globalgamejam.org/users/jonathan-keku
Personality profile:
https://secure.plum.io/en/p/-MbDSxnb6DB3Lq45B9g4kQ/top-talents
Also have years of knowledge from watching a large variety of YouTube videos.
Game Design
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO_AXkY8_43A_XvIeZ-Bjy_b9IPgiSL-n
UI
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO_AXkY8_43CaBuQ6Vj6w02RgWoPsPGXC
VFX
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO_AXkY8_43B37HxKPaBrDaX3CxtcYhNL
Business
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO_AXkY8_43DGg5GdaJT9SBRp1WpuKaT_
Writing/Story
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO_AXkY8_43DFxCqcq442drGwqkyM9Gc4
Summation of my views on life
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO_AXkY8_43A72CwAq2se-JUHOtZwr8Ko
You can check my website for my latest project.
trail leaf
Forget the personal stuff
flat gazelle
What are the lists of stuff from other people?
trail leaf
Watching ! = experience.
celest summit
@mystic hull
- b) We were given half the semester and I came up with the UI during the last week. this line in your UI of Sonic Jump is a definite no-no, employers will read that if you're assigned a task, you'll slack off until the very last moment before getting anything done.
I mean that's college. It was a group project in an entry level class, we all had assignments to do in other classes, and UI was a lower priority than making sure the gameplay was good and didn't have any bugs.
1st and most important point: The majority of employers don't care about your personal life, they care about your work. The last thing you want to be doing is having an attitude in your application.
2. a) Your portfolio feels like it was quickly patched up with minimal effort, no thought put into it, just so you're able to show something - this kills any chances you'd have otherwise for being hired.
3. I found no resume, but your linkedin is disorganized, if you're applying for a specific position, create a resume specifically tailored to that job. Specifically, the delivery & Neo-Generalist entries are out of place. Mention only tangible, useful & usable experience that directly relates to the job you're applying to. Self-employed non-paid work does not count, sadly.
I'm sorry if this is a little stingy, but hopefully it's for the best slight_smile . I think at this point you're better off finding a job in another CS related industry that aligns with your college projects, to support yourself & earn your expenses until you have enough time to build a games related portfolio.
Look man, I'm out of time and out of options. The IT jobs I've applied for aren't getting back to me, got rejected for SBA and PPP loans, I live in the worst state in the US for fulfilling unemployment applications (North Carolina, gonna be waiting months for an appeal). This is it. I genuinely have no idea what to do after this.
trail leaf
Don't use that.
I'm sorry to hear things are getting out of hand.
Talk more about your time as VP of the GD club. Show your artwork. Talk more about the emergencies you handled while there.
celest summit
You can see some of my work in my global game jam profile.
trail leaf
To maximizes your chance you have to think about it from the employers point of view.
If employers want to know you personally, they will ask for it. But do not offer it because they may disagree with your opinion.
If you want to be brave and tell them to go click a link to go read it, they might just bin the email
I suggest you layout the information to make it easy for a potential employer to quickly skim and see things that checks tick boxes in their heads.
The more check boxes they tick on skimming the more likely they will devote more time to reading the email on more detail.
celest summit
This doesn't seem like a very humane hiring process... Yeah idk. Both of you, thank you so so so much for your time! I need to think.. and sleep.
trail leaf
It isn't about being human or non human.
celest summit
@flat gazelle videos I've watched, analysed, and applied to different projects over the years. They've helped inform my design sense and world view
trail leaf
I read maybe 5 or 10 resumes a day lately
At best I skim.
And usually 0 to 2 catch my attention
flat gazelle
Right, but how is that relevant? I watch a ton of DIY videos, but I'm not getting hired as a plumber because of it.
trail leaf
Everyone says they handle stress. Everyone says they handle pressure. Everyone says they are a hard worker. Who doesn't?
@flat gazelle is 100% correct.
I watch lots of videos of Gordon Ramsay cooking, but I ain't going to become a 3 star Michelin chef any time soon.
But what does catch my eye is someone who presents a skill that I know the company needs or another company I know needs.
flat gazelle
He did teach me to make a better omelette though!
trail leaf
I have tried to cook omelette that way a few times... I still can't get it exactly right.
Either they come out too hard or way too runny.
flat gazelle
And that's why you're not working at his restuarant 😛
The secret is that the omelette is 80% butter.
trail leaf
Can't argue that statement
flat gazelle
I can see the idea with providing those lists as if it was a credited university course there would be included lists of topics. But those were taught and tested. Random youtube videos that were on in the background while playing Guild Wars are not.
celest summit
I actually watch the videos tho.
trail leaf
Design and business tend to be theoretical.
What worked for them, worked for me will probably not work for you.
flat gazelle
Even more so if I can't see a direct result of it in the portfolio.
trail leaf
The first game my studio made has thus far sold 1.5m copies.
The second game we made sold 30k copies.
I know some of the mistakes we did.
While I can explain what we did in the first game, no one can use that history 100% to duplicate the success.
flat gazelle
And looking around, I can't see any VFX at all despite a list showing 300+ videos on the topic. As a hiring VFX Lead, that prompts some questions in my mind.
trail leaf
Portfolios matter
celest summit
got it and now I sleep
trail leaf
Good luck and sleep well.
mint egret
jaunty patio
I'm planning on registering a domain to create a website that will contain my resume, portfolio and other social accounts like LinkedIn. Any tips on the domain name or domain extension I should be going for?? (like first name/last name or last name/first name for domain names for example )
nova tartan
I'll note that I will not click links to random websites while browsing applications, I only browse the more trusted big sites.
But otherwise just be professional in your website name.
plucky hatch
i do asm coding lmao
ocean dragon
@celest summit Quickest way to get a job is to prove you are competent, and make it easy for an employer to also see that
The problem is that you're making it incredibly hard for an employer to see that you're competent.
This isn't because they don't value you as a human being, it is more likely because they are only paid to work 7 hours a day and they simply don't have the time to spend two hours going through your Plum account, your YouTube account, and your personal website.
None of the above is something you can fix quickly. The situation you describe yourself in is sounds awful, but you can do something about it if you're proactive.
I've never heard of Plum, personally -- I would close that profile and stop using it
The YouTube channel is extremely cluttered. There's too many different crafts being featured; you have Design, UI, VFX, Business, Writing, and even an Opinion Column..? Statistically you are not an expert in all of these things, and 'jack of all trade' roles rarely exist beyond small (< 10 man) development teams. You've fallen into the trap of showing everything you've ever done rather than showing only the best things you have ever done
green oyster
Also have years of knowledge from watching a large variety of YouTube videos. that's such a weird thing to say @celest summit
ocean dragon
I think the best way for you to start attracting attention from recruiters is to, as per above, make it easy for them to find you, and easy for them to see your skills.
By no means is this a stellar portfolio, but this was mine when I graduated in 2016. (I was hired shortly after graduating)
https://www.artstation.com/danpowell
Almost all of the work is a 3D Prop or Environment, because that is the role I am strongest at, and the one I can ultimately get people to pay me to do for them. Whilst I'm also able to make particle systems, write small bits of code, or design game mechanics, no one would pay me to do those things.
I also featured a small amount of 2D life drawing as a 'supplementary' piece - because that was my hobby at the time; it is a hobby which demonstrates passion for art, which is something employer's want from their artists.
You need to do the same thing. Make an ArtStation account (www.artstation.com).
Take some high quality screenshots of your Game Jams. Upload a video of them being played to YouTube, and present them nicely on Artstation with a small description of what it's about
flat gazelle
If you apply for vfx, screenshots are worthless. Movies or bust.
ocean dragon
If you worked on any of the games as part of a team, make sure you very clearly state which parts you were responsible for, and make separate renders for them if possible
Please don't tell recruiters that all of your training is from YouTube videos. Whilst I'm not one to really encourage obfuscation.. YouTube is not a reputable learning platform. If you want reputable online courses, then tutorial communities like FlippedNormals, or PluralSight are probably better to use - I'm not saying YouTube is useless, but it's not something you can really cite as an educational platform
And yeah, if anything moves, take high quality video footage as well as some dramatic stills.
There's also nothing wrong with looking at Resumés online by other people in the industry for inspiration when it comes to writing things like your personal statement. Being VP of the Game Jam club is worth mentioning.
When it comes to buzzphrases like "attention to detail" and "good under stress", it's better to not write these in your resumé. Show, don't tell.
If I wanted to show that I had good attention to detail, I would take some photographs of an interesting real life object, and then make a 3D model of it with a great level of detail/accuracy.
If you were an animator, you could animate a video of an animal going from stationary to running, as the way animals move is very distinct and would make for an interesting slow mo. e.g. a bird taking off, or a gorilla charging aggressively from stationary.
shut star
Morning folks, I heard at least one person has been contacted about their successful application to the August-September 2020 Unreal Fellowship.
Can anyone help find out if they'll contact everyone who applied to say yes/no?
I've got potential work and don't want to say yes and then risk having to turn down the fellowship's offer.
@bleak frigate In a similarish situation - any news about this?
quaint aspen
At the core of it, employers want to know about the concrete things you have done so that they can extrapolate what you can do and what you could do given a small amount of up-skilling.
Good recommendations above. For LinkedIn, look at how recruiters tend to structure their profiles and just go with that unless you know for certain there’s a clear alternative industry standard for your role.
Portfolios are a different beast but the goal of the resume or LinkedIn is to get you through the HR wall and in front of whoever is actually hiring. Keep in mind most large companies get gigantic amounts of resumes and use applicant tracking and management software as a result. A lot of the early decision making is based on rules, keywords and heuristics. Who sets these rules? Recruiters. Who’s most like to know exactly how to lay out their resume/profiles to get noticed? Yeah it’s recruiters.
thorn flame
Hey guys.. I wish to pursue my career as a gameplay programmer...I know cpp and vectors but however I am not confident in my skills...😅 what all should I need for my portfolio.. I don't have a coding degree I have only worked in some games of my own in itch.io
I am mostly afraid 🙁 do I need SQL stuff? Someone mentioned it somewhere they were asked about that
trail leaf
I would say SQL is not really needed. The more games you have in your portfolio, the better.
thorn flame
@trail leaf thanks 😁
quaint aspen
Can you share your itch.io stuff?
If you have completed a few games on your own and so dealt with some of the pitfalls of gamedev already that’s pretty good and I would suggest you focus on that in your resume and when applying. In addition any work you have done within a team is good to highlight to show you can work with others.
nova tartan
If you say you "know" CPP that's hard to quantify, so you need to give concrete examples of stuff you've done, because you will be applying for entry level positions and most likely competing against fresh university grads with comp sci degrees. The degree gives a baseline level of "this guy knows how to program and problem solve well enough to earn an accredited post secondary degree", so you have to come in and say "I know programming well enough to do X, Y, Z, here's proof of the good work I've done".
