#career-chat | Unreal Source | Page 79

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:33 PM

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Maintenance is the technical debt

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:33 PM

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technical debt accrues with time as well

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:33 PM

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I’m new and only have a slight understanding of the terms, but I don’t like making crap solutions to begin with. I like to have work that’s scalable and lean if not only for my own benefit

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:33 PM

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But you can lessen the need for maintenance

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:34 PM

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the maintenance itself isn't, the debt comes from how the coupling works. so the debt itself is e.g. that you are forced into a certain workflow due to how the engine is constructed

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:34 PM

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If anything I need to learn to leave solutions be to be optimized at a later date

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:34 PM

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and that takes time away from other roles/disciplines

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:34 PM

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Yeahhh I mean it's a bit of a semantics discussion

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But yes

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:35 PM

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@merry sequoia you might not have the option is my point. you'll most likely be given a time to complete a task, and in that time you need to think on your feet how to lessen the load

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it may not be possible, you may not have all the variables to create a system in that time for instance

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like you have to do R&D at the same time as doing polish, keeping in mind design patterns and the structure how your system or module fits into e.g. the engine as a greater whole

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replace engine with project, where applicable

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:37 PM

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Well in that scenario I would build the way I generally try to. Identify big picture items and things that can be used across multiple functions /classes so that they can be plugged in as universally as possible. Lay out my work as tasks to be completed instead of some 10-page scroll of BP line of multiple tasks in the line

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If I understand what you’re asking

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Tasks to be completed as in separating the execution lines through custom events or sequences

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Add some verticality to make it more legible

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:38 PM

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I don't think there is a correct answer to the question, but there are certainly wrong answers to it. it's a question I can picture coming up in one form or another in an interview

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:39 PM

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Yeah I figured, I just want to make sure I’m hitting the target board on the answer at least and not off in the weeds misinterpreting it

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:39 PM

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and again, at this point you're beyond BP

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:40 PM

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I'm just a bit confused here about the programming convo we're having when we're actually looking at a TA role

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:40 PM

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he said he was interested in both

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:40 PM

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(Unless that's changed since last I checked)

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Ah

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:40 PM

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What cranz said

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:41 PM

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in regards to your answer, I don't think your answer is completely legible

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:41 PM

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Yeah I need to spend a week converting to cpp to become familiar with the library.

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:41 PM

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in the sense that I cannot read into it enough how you would do things

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:41 PM

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At minimum

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That’s one of my big failings that I’m keenly aware of. I need to be learning the technical terms of subjects I’ve learned naturally and isolated as a freelancer

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:43 PM

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it would personally make me think you are not familiar enough with practices that would counteract e.g. technical debt

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:44 PM

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Which is a reasonable conclusion and as I said a failing I’m keenly aware of. I need to be learning and using more technical terms.

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:44 PM

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keeping in mind that this is not a hit piece on you, this is just trying to get a constructive discussion going about what will help you advance

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:45 PM

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No no don’t worry about that man. Id prefer brutal honesty over sugarcoating every day of the week

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:45 PM

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good, because in the industry you'll get plenty of that

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I want to say especially programmers do not sugarcoat

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:46 PM

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I definitely share that experience

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:46 PM

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Yeah that doesn’t bother me. Id rather get a straight answer so I can more quickly address the issues.

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:49 PM

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@merry sequoia What's your background? What experience do you have atm?

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:49 PM

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I’m a freelance character artist that has made a few programs in python for personal fun use

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:49 PM

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Trying to make sense of the entire thing I just read, I feel like background information is in order if you want proper career advice

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(If you want that)

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:49 PM

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I’ve only gotten into UE4 as a more technical use within the last month or so

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:50 PM

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Do you do rigging and animation?

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:50 PM

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Rigging sure, animations less so. Basics sure but I’d never consider myself an animator

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:50 PM

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And what's your programming experience?

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:51 PM

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tech anim would also be applicable then

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if you're into that

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:52 PM

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I have made a variety of things with python for personal use. Desktop stock / crypto ticker and gains / loss tracker with displayed graphs from markets / Aesthetically pleasing to me UI

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One of those workout mirrors for my wife. LED display on a 2 way mirror displaying various stats / to do list / weather

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:53 PM

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And C++?

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(Just asking because you say you've used it)

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:54 PM

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I’ve learned how to use it and written a few tutorials to learn basic library functions. It didn’t really bother me swapping syntax I just am not familiar with the library yet

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:54 PM

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Right

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 2:54 PM

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are you aware of stuff like dangling pointers? how to reference stuff and dereference?

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:54 PM

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So you're, if we're being honest, a very green programmer (from what I can see)

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:56 PM

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I had to look up the term on google real fast but yes lol.

Like I said programming wise I’m pretty self taught and admittedly need to learn the terms as well as I’ve learned the logic.

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:57 PM

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So I'm going to be honest, I don't think you'd stand a chance getting a programming job

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I'm only saying this because you want brutally honest

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It looks like you might indeed have enough techyness to do TA if you build up some more experience with it

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But for programming, you're going to need a lot more, and you'll really have to focus on C++ stuff

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:58 PM

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I’m not expecting that I’m qualified at this moment or anything. No.

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:58 PM

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So if you want to stick to artsy stuff, I'd abandon the programmer-idea

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For junior programming roles you're competing against CS students

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So you really need something to show - because programming is the one thing in gamedev where that piece of paper holds serious value

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For TA, just keep doing techy art stuff 😛

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 2:59 PM

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Yeah that doesn’t concern me. I can out python my friend with a CS degree :p I just can’t communicate it nearly as well and that’s something I’m going to be actively working on.

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 2:59 PM

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I don't think Python counts when you're comparing to a CS degree

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C and C++ count if you're trying to rival a CS degree

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:00 PM

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teaching assistants don't do tech ar... oh

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 3:00 PM

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Programming logic is programming logic, no?

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:00 PM

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CS knowledge is utterly useless when you're working in something as simplified as Python

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Well yes but no

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Python makes for lazy programmers

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Alternatively, uneducated programmers

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Just because you're good in Python doesn't mean your C++ code won't be abominable

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:01 PM

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a CS degree isn't about learning and expertly mastering one language

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:01 PM

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CS doesn't focus on teaching programming

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:01 PM

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it's about understanding where that language is coming from and how to abstract that knowledge into learning other languages as well

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:01 PM

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It teaches how computers work, and how your code should be optimized to that

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No see that's the thing

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When you're doing C++ there's a hell of a lot more to it than just understanding how the language works

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:01 PM

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exactly

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you will want to understand what the compiler does

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:02 PM

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Python is just "translate logic to PC stuff"

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C++ requires a deep technical understanding of how the entire computer works

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:02 PM

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I just learned recently that beyond compile time, classes don't exist in cpp

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it's all fake

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it's just a bunch of fake nonsense

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:03 PM

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Again, we're not attacking you here

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 3:03 PM

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You don’t have to concern yourself with that lll

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:03 PM

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like the reason cpp is lightning in a bottle is because it's just a bunch of static, sometimes virtual functions performed directly on memory

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 3:03 PM

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Lol*

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:03 PM

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But if you're looking into junior programming stuff, that's your competition

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:04 PM

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hence why you have a vtable in cpp

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:04 PM

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Just reiterating because often times when people say they can take criticism they do get very worked up

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:04 PM

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because there's no other way to keep the knowledge of virtual functions

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and that is pretty unique to the predecessors of OOP languages, the procedural languages

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cpp is really just what it says on the tin

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C with extra stuff on top

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 3:09 PM

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Lol no. This is a whole new field to me that while I’m confident in my execution of it I know there’s a lot I’m not aware of.

I don’t mean to imply I don’t think much of a CS degree, that’s not true at all. Simply I am confident in my ability to start digging back into cpp and be efficient with it while I learn.

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:09 PM

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Just be very mindful of the fact that if you are, in fact, going for a job in the industry

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You're competing against CS students - who are a far safer bet for the employer

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So your portfolio will need to be absolutely outstanding to stand a chance

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:11 PM

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^

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:12 PM

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(The same stands for Tech Art, but there's no established route for Tech Art, so your competition is less... Prudent)

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 3:12 PM

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Programming isn’t my first choice but is def an interest, the whole convo sorta got started out of curiosity. I asked what level of polished an example RTS would need for application in programming since it’s what I’m using to learn on and was relevant to glads comment.

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:12 PM

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the polish would be on the code

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so ensuring you use correct design patterns where applicable, your code is nice and readable at all times

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 3:13 PM

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Aye I just mean like how fleshed out the actual game would be. Obviously placeholder art assets but in terms of how large of a scale of a project they would like to see

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:13 PM

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ensure your system architecture has had technical debt in mind for expansion modules etc

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:13 PM

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You're applying as programmer, not a designer

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It's about your code, not the game

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:14 PM

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well a system or a collection of systems large enough to judge caliber

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:14 PM

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A good game will help first impressions

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But that's about it

honest cipher Mar 29, 2020, 3:14 PM

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to be fair if someone has an actually working RTS working in unreal, i would say thats a pretty good portfolio piece

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rts are not really that trivial

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 3:14 PM

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Definitely

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But then it'd need to be a game

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Not just small demo-project

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:15 PM

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@honest cipher maybe you have some pointers for this young man?

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 3:19 PM

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While I’d appreciate don’t feel obligated. Most of this was me inquiring about expectations and while programming is definitely an interest I believe tech art is my more direct career path.

My only qualm with it is it feels too narrow. I like building systems as well as making art and art tools lol

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Hell so far I’ve enjoyed building an RTS from bottom to top but indie developer isn’t a job title in big studios lol

honest cipher Mar 29, 2020, 3:21 PM

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what people look for a ue4 programmer is 2 main things

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either a long experience with programming in cpp and in general (cs degree cool)

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or cool demo projects and having worked on games

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having a set of game projects made, that work well and are high quality is a really quick way to a programmer job

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they need to be high quality tho. Just working isnt enough

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 3:22 PM

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Right. I wouldn’t expect to slap something together in pure BP and expect to be considered for programmer.

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 3:25 PM

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BP is mostly a design tool

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 3:27 PM

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Aye, I expect to convert to cpp. I just haven’t yet, was going to once I had had combat stuff finished

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Anyway. Appreciate the time gents. Don’t wanna get too WIP or loungey

vocal meadow Mar 29, 2020, 4:24 PM

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I’ve not used smartrecruiter @flat gazelle . Does it allow people to upload their greatest hits of tabs, line returns and preference of variable naming?

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 4:30 PM

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It let's you upload whatever you want so if that's your jam, go for it.

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But are you using Jobify or something where there is a gated system like you described? I've not used any it so I'm curious

vocal meadow Mar 29, 2020, 4:37 PM

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I’ve not used any automated system personally but the idea is you don’t put things in resume that aren’t worth the persons time of review. Video of code in operation would be a cleaner way of demonstrating ability. Arbitrary written code is going to do nothing but open you up to criticism over things you don’t know preferences of. Programmers are generally expected to follow a style guide so it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that you’d showcase anything but final products/result from effort

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 4:38 PM

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I don't code so I've got no clue about that. I was more surprised by the notion that a recruiter was allowed to turn an applicant down based on any technical ability.

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I'd have my recruiters head on a plate if he tried to pull something like that.

vocal meadow Mar 29, 2020, 4:41 PM

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The thought was: why put yourself in a situation where someone’s preference of spaces over tabs could affect your review

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Would save code examples for tests/interview

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 4:46 PM

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How does one choose between CV and resume? I found I got a lot more hits after switching to a detailed CV, but it still feels bloated as hell. Most info there won't even be understandable for a recruiter

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Feels like I hit the buzzwords jackpot 😅

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Also, how does one get their CV reviewed, without having to apply to a job?

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Asking for a friend ofcourse 👀

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 4:47 PM

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What's the difference?

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You ask people to review it.

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 4:48 PM

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Difference between CV and resume is length

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 4:48 PM

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google says the difference is resume doesn't have details, just titles, education etc

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yeah length pretty much

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 4:48 PM

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If you're in the states, anyway

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 4:48 PM

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if you ask me though, I don't see much else

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 4:48 PM

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I've used them interchangeably.

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 4:48 PM

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Same

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 4:48 PM

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You ask people to review it.
@flat gazelle Will you review my CV? 👀

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See what I did there? 😂

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 4:48 PM

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In NL we always say CV

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 4:48 PM

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Are you an artist?

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 4:49 PM

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Nope, programmer

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 4:49 PM

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Which is translated to resume

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 4:49 PM

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Then no

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 4:49 PM

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Sad lyf

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 4:49 PM

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I wouldn't be able to give you a fair review

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 4:49 PM

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Yeah copy 👌

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I'll wait for a dev to hop in

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 4:49 PM

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Don't know many industry programmers familiar with hiring around here really

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 4:49 PM

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There should be some, lots of lurkers

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I'll pray in the meantime 😂

hybrid phoenix Mar 29, 2020, 4:50 PM

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Most people talking here regularly are art-side people

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(And a bunch of technical artists like myself)

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 4:51 PM

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I'm a programmer who has made hiring choices in the past but never for a big studio... if my opinion would matter to you

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 4:51 PM

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All opinions matter my friend

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Shall I DM you?

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 4:52 PM

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@vocal meadow nobody is going to go into that much detail about your code, but it's in your code that you can see design patterns etc., something that you can't readily demonstrate in a video. the onus is on your to have clean code that is readable in a team environment where you have upwards of hundreds of contributors

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 4:52 PM

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Probably have to friend first, I don't recall my settings on this server

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 4:54 PM

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@digital gate you're welcome to chip into this conversation as well of course

vocal meadow Mar 29, 2020, 4:59 PM

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Still think that sort of thing does not belong in portfolio. To really show the kind of thing your describing it’d take thousands of lines of code. Ability with programming is not so much formatting of text. Let them tell you their style guide and complete whatever test they present you with it rather than assuming they want to take any time adjusting to your preference. Big code based ideally look like they are written by a single person and all, so formatting should really be down to being presented a guide to follow and how you follow it. Everything else you’ve done in career should be in a more presentable form, such as video of it in action and or performance numbers.

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 5:01 PM

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style guide or not, documenting what code does goes beyond that. not all functions are easily readable, and you want to describe functionality rather than care whether or not it conforms to some notion of style, at least up front. people aren't going to put you on blast for not using hungarian notation, but they will put you on blast for having functions or algorithms without explanation of what they do at the very least in broad terms

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 5:11 PM

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Are we debating the efficacy of sharing code to be hired?

vocal meadow Mar 29, 2020, 5:11 PM

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Wouldn’t be so confident that someone isn’t going to put you on blast for using or not using Hungarian notation. To assume your not subject to any programming prejudice isn’t super smart especially if you want to demonstrate ability to adapt. I just don’t see including arbitrary code examples as benefitting your chances to receive a interview

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Cranz was recommending putting code examples in portfolio yeah

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 5:11 PM

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I uh

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I was hired because a standalone PR got the attention of somebody who then suggested I get an interview. On the flip side I have never included raw code in my portfolio.

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 5:13 PM

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I was saying I've seen recruitment applications where they require it

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 5:14 PM

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I think the right code is important to get in front of the right people, and they will not care if you have slightly off style. Aside from that case it isn't important.

tidal moth Mar 29, 2020, 5:14 PM

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not recommending them willy nilly

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 5:14 PM

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Now you could lean really hard into that being your brand of portfolio

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But showing mechanics in action is a must and you will only get appreciation from other programmers by also showing code

vocal meadow Mar 29, 2020, 5:16 PM

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Willy nilly code examples is what I’m speaking against here. Wouldn’t offer code examples because you like the code. A PR is a smart way to do it because you know the style guide by that point.

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 5:16 PM

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Just put a Fizz Buzz in the portolio. Instahired. 😛

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 5:17 PM

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Make it overly complicated and dynamic

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Do like. 4 levels of templates

pastel estuary Mar 29, 2020, 5:17 PM

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I suggest making videos of a jumping Glad for your portfolio

vocal meadow Mar 29, 2020, 5:17 PM

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100 lines of switch case ✅

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 5:17 PM

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No porfolio copying. You already did that.

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 5:17 PM

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constexpr if is a gem here

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 5:17 PM

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If Fizz Goto 10.

pastel estuary Mar 29, 2020, 5:17 PM

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haha

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 5:18 PM

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throwing new language features at the crudgy veteran is likely to get you hired Kappa

flat gazelle Mar 29, 2020, 5:18 PM

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Any recruiter will see your genious and call you in for an interview. Potentially also houseparty and/or dinner.

vocal meadow Mar 29, 2020, 5:19 PM

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Aye I template everything and constexpr is probably second most used word in vocabulary. I program for performance and reusability. So when I all the sudden want to work a desk job I would prefer to know what their style guide is.

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 5:19 PM

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House party is certain... you gotta play the cards correctly once wasted if you want the interview

vocal meadow Mar 29, 2020, 5:20 PM

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Lol
goto party;

strange whale Mar 29, 2020, 6:26 PM

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if(partyIsBad)
{
goto exit;
}

pastel estuary Mar 29, 2020, 6:28 PM

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if(partyIsBad)
{Goto moreBooze;
}

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 7:33 PM

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if (partyIsBad)
{
try
{
moreAlcohol();
}
catch (boringPeople _)
{
findOthers();
}
finally
{
goHomeAndNurseSixPack();
}
}

merry sequoia Mar 29, 2020, 7:43 PM

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So much work into a function that’s Boolean’d out for the next couple weeks at minimum ;p

digital gate Mar 29, 2020, 7:50 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/jerry-rick-and-morty-life-is-effort-ill-stop-when-idie-gif-12127232

Tenor

tribal jewel Mar 29, 2020, 10:45 PM

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Does anyone have any good examples on a good portfolio in order to apply for game companies? github/blueprint/etc.

west sonnet Mar 29, 2020, 10:47 PM

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Pick your favourite game, watch the end credit, google the individual in which has the role you’re interest in.

mystic hull Mar 29, 2020, 10:53 PM

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Eyyyyyyy why have I never thought of that

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I always apply to companies of my fav games, never thought of stalking their members 👀

mental drum Mar 29, 2020, 11:29 PM

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There is nothing bad on it, people gives their info for free in the net 🙈
But that case is different and good point as you can learn something, usually there are recompilation webs that list where worked the same person

vocal meadow Mar 30, 2020, 4:29 AM

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I highly doubt anyone would consider you looking up their online presence from their name-in-credits as stalking.

marsh stream Mar 30, 2020, 8:39 AM

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Damn that is such a good idea .

mystic hull Mar 30, 2020, 3:18 PM

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I was trying to be funny, seems like it didn't work 🤔

tidal moth Mar 30, 2020, 4:32 PM

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I guess looking people up is fair game, but messaging them is a faux pas

dusk anvil Mar 31, 2020, 6:50 AM

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@urban skiff Add me. I sent you a DM. Think you're interested. reply in Dm' later when you check it

somber spindle Mar 31, 2020, 11:38 AM

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Can anyone recommend me some beginner project ideas, I have recently started developing on the Unreal Engine after switching from Roblox (I know it might feel like a platform for kids) I learnt quite alot about Unreal Blueprint system and the C++ API

pastel estuary Mar 31, 2020, 11:42 AM

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breakout/pong, or if you feel adventurous, try to create tetris.

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but, admin voice this is not really the channel for this, this is really related to careers.

timber kernel Mar 31, 2020, 4:07 PM

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Hey everyone, like level designers for games is there thing for creating environments in movies/production?

nova tartan Mar 31, 2020, 4:08 PM

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https://www.workinentertainment.com/blog/the-important-role-of-set-designers-in-the-movie-industry/
Is this what you want?

Work In Entertainment

Matt Reilly

The Important Role of Set Designers in the Movie Industry

Want to become a set designer? If you are a creative person with an eye for setting the mood visually

tidal moth Mar 31, 2020, 4:11 PM

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set dressing is level artistry/environment art. it is a different discipline from level design

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@timber kernel

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I can imagine set designers are much more physical, since most movies take place in a physical scene, not a virtual one

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at least currently

timber kernel Mar 31, 2020, 4:16 PM

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Concept wise yes. But my direct question would be ...what is the scope of a level designer for games, in movies or film industry?

flat gazelle Mar 31, 2020, 4:16 PM

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Layout Artists is fairly similar to level designer

timber kernel Mar 31, 2020, 4:18 PM

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Like if we consider Lion King( the recent one) as an example, which artists generally involve in creating the environments along with modelers and texturing artists?

tidal moth Mar 31, 2020, 4:19 PM

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there is no scope for level design in movie making, since movies aren't interactive

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if you mean stuff like level art or set dressing, the scope is probably limited to virtual environments, however many there are of those. but again, that is not level design

flat gazelle Mar 31, 2020, 4:20 PM

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Again, Layout Artists.

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"Responsibilities
• Executing the staging, blocking and camera work that makes up the foundation of a
successful shot and sequence of shots throughout a film
• Producing work (shots) in a fast-paced CG environment using Maya, Linux, and a suite of
proprietary software"

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Layout artist job at disney

tidal moth Mar 31, 2020, 4:21 PM

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sounds it

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still not level design though 😉

flat gazelle Mar 31, 2020, 4:22 PM

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That wasn't the question

timber kernel Mar 31, 2020, 4:27 PM

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okay..I will look into that

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Thankyou.

hybrid phoenix Mar 31, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

So uh

#

I got an offer I can't refuse from one of the studios

tidal moth Mar 31, 2020, 4:36 PM

#

what's so good you can't refuse?

hybrid phoenix Mar 31, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

Salary being about twice what I'd pay myself

mystic hull Mar 31, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

👀

digital gate Mar 31, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

But what if PUBG counters with 3x Kappa

hybrid phoenix Mar 31, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

My recruiter said this is more than he'd expect PUBG to offer

#

And PUBG is very slow

digital gate Mar 31, 2020, 4:41 PM

#

Make sure you aren't losing on the benefits side, but with 2x maybe it's still better

hybrid phoenix Mar 31, 2020, 4:41 PM

#

Overall I think I'll be happier there

#

Also a shorter workweek

tidal moth Mar 31, 2020, 4:41 PM

#

yea idk, sounds a bit fishy

#

and recruiters always push because otherwise they don't make money

#

what's the offer if you don't mind me asking? you can PM

hybrid phoenix Mar 31, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

PM'd

#

I give my recruiter more credit than you guys seem to give them

#

Goddamn now you've made me nervous again

#

I really do have faith in the honesty of my recruiter, because from what I've seen so far he deserves nothing other than that

west sonnet Mar 31, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

We’re interested in your success. Not commission base on salary 😉

hybrid phoenix Mar 31, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

Unsure if sarcasm

mystic hull Mar 31, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

I'd bet on it being so 🤔

vocal meadow Mar 31, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

Nah

hybrid phoenix Mar 31, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

If I were a recruiter it'd be both, but more towards success

mystic hull Mar 31, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

Freal though, nothing to be nervous about

#

It's jsut word play, in the end your success == their financial benefit

#

both are kind of the same in this context

vocal meadow Mar 31, 2020, 4:55 PM

#

Expect them to rush decisions

#

Time is money and dealing with indecisive developers is something they are accustomed to

west sonnet Mar 31, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

Not sarcasm

tidal moth Mar 31, 2020, 5:25 PM

#

why would it be sarcasm

#

it benefits us as a game dev community (not just limited to this discord) to see more qualified people go to places where they can grow

vocal meadow Mar 31, 2020, 5:27 PM

#

plus, we're not rude people lol

mystic hull Apr 1, 2020, 12:17 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

This speaks volumes

#

what have we become 🤔

west sonnet Apr 1, 2020, 8:13 AM

#

This is not the channel for that. Go to #more-resources for instructions on how to post in #looking-for-talent

#

@tough coral

north narwhal Apr 1, 2020, 8:39 AM

#

hey @tough coral as hightide said, please make a #looking-for-talent if you are looking for people

tough coral Apr 1, 2020, 8:45 AM

#

Thanks

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 3:28 PM

#

I signed a contract for a product I gave out 5 years ago and I'm being asked if I have the source if I would give it over.

#

But I'm not sure if the agreement gave them the rights to the source and trying to see if it did.

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

What is the other entity?

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

a company

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 3:31 PM

#

Publisher?

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 3:31 PM

#

Grant of Rights
Developer hereby assigns to Publisher for the duration of this Agreement (i) all copyrights, rights to
print, publish, distribute, translate and re-license the Work, under its own name or in the name of any
entity which is in control of, controlled by or in common control with Publisher (“Affiliate”), during the
term of this Agreement, and grants Publisher the right to copyright the Work in the Publisher's name
or in the name of an Affiliate in all countries of the world, with authority to dispose of said rights in all
languages and in all countries. As of the date of this Agreement, Developer shall not be responsible to
(i) register and/or copyright the Work in any country that the Work may be sold, or (ii) enforce any
violation of copyright or any other intellectual property rights that may occur during the duration of this
Agreement.

#

The duration of the agreement would be from the start of work till the time of delivery of the finished App?

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 3:33 PM

#

Can you just ignore their request? There is nothing there about written source code

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 3:34 PM

#

I could ignore, he did ask not demand afterall

#

And I too read nothing about source in there but wasn't sure if it was indirectly implied in someway.

#

If they do want source, I could offer to sell it to him?

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 3:35 PM

#

If you’ve got a list of “deliverables” it should explicitly state source code

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 3:35 PM

#

I have a description of work

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 3:35 PM

#

You could state that that sort of thing (giving the code) could be delivered subject to another agreement

#

It would be very stupid of both parties to not have explicit declaration of what would be done with said source code

#

As no one would have written rights to it

#

Can always just ask why too

#

Worst case: they do some legal chestpounding

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 3:39 PM

#

@vocal meadow well I legally own the code I wrote

#

Unless I signed it away

#

Is how I understand it.

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 3:50 PM

#

That should be the position by default yeah but should probably avoid getting into the position where you hesitate there

digital gate Apr 1, 2020, 3:56 PM

#

Well depending on how tied to the IP your code is.... they may have a case if you do anything with the full set of code. IANAL though.

The term doesn't have to end when you finish, it could extend out arbitrarily far.

#

Nothing in that which says you have to surrender the code

#

How is work product defined in the agreement?

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

@digital gate https://gyazo.com/16018dac7b18df29740049c7c7ffcbc9

Gyazo

digital gate Apr 1, 2020, 4:17 PM

#

Yeah seems like nothing in there mentions source

#

plus final files accepted might be Interesting for you

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:20 PM

#

Yes, probably why he is asking

#

It would save him time therefore money so I'll make it reasonable if he wants it that badly

wild fjord Apr 1, 2020, 4:21 PM

#

if what you wrote is a port of another game you likely can't do anything with the source you wrote

#

but it's true that defines the work as the packaged app and not as source code

west sonnet Apr 1, 2020, 4:21 PM

#

I always assume app is the end product. Not the source

wild fjord Apr 1, 2020, 4:22 PM

#

it can get messy when work for hire laws come into play

#

that would be what they would argue, that this was a work for hire and the copyright attaches to them not the developer

#

but if it reaches that point you should have long since lawyered up

west sonnet Apr 1, 2020, 4:23 PM

#

It still is considered “reasonable assumption” when the contract doesn’t define source code as part of the deliverable

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:24 PM

#

What I created could be a template for any such products lets say reskinned

#

I didn't see any of their source

#

All my own

#

The assets are theirs those

wild fjord Apr 1, 2020, 4:24 PM

#

yeah my reading agrees, all the copyright assignment language is about "the Work" and "the Work" is the packaged app

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:24 PM

#

That's how I see it too

wild fjord Apr 1, 2020, 4:24 PM

#

if you get served, get a lawyer

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

I'm going to consult an IP lawyer before messaging him back

wild fjord Apr 1, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

if you don't, you're probably fine ignoring them?

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

Yes ignoring for now

wild fjord Apr 1, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

oh if you've got someone available absolutely contact them

west sonnet Apr 1, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

My vote is on ignore too

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

It wasn't a threat by him at all

#

Just might be a business opportunity

west sonnet Apr 1, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

@vocal meadow come join the fun

#

Ignore as in don’t deliver the request. Write up a new contract if they want the source

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

woo

#

yeah i agree though "print" and "translatable" language is something they could argue involves literal (literature) work.

#

but you assuming they don't have the rights here is perfectly fine

#

so you could either ignore, question or state that they don't have the rights and prepare for response

#

for what it is worth though, if this is a publisher, its absolutely a mistake on their part to not make it clearer

#

did you just issue them an apk or what?

#

not giving you advice here on what to do btw, but my opinion is that from what i've seen its not clear that you owe them anything

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

@vocal meadow thanks so far plan is to talk to a lawyer and not yet respond.

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

would be careful with that as well

#

lawyers like work

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

At least you guys helped me be sure in my assumption that it isn't clear

#

I'm sure, I have two lined up

#

Will gauge them from their response

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

your call but honestly this doesn't ring bells of dispute to me really to bring them in. they likely are going to just offer to draft some legal notice/inquery to them and charge you a lot for it.

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

Seems likely indeed.

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

things that aren't hard to do on your own.

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

They will probably tell me it is vague

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

nah

#

lawyers don't do that

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

and that I'll need to fight it?

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

well

#

i shouldn't say that, but they are unlikely going to give you an opinion on much. they will give you options of what you would like to do and may sway you to a course of action

#

services etc

#

in reality you could be just asking them yourself a lot of the questions they'll write up. having those answers and bringing them to an attorney you would be less likely waste legal hours to just figure out a position.

#

but lawyer would appreciate the work and likely state that by going to them early you made the right decision and yada yada

#

so your decision

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:48 PM

#

What do you mean ask them a lot of questions they will write up?

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 4:48 PM

#

well you don't know their position on you owing them the code or not

#

so likely the law office is going to offer to prepare a formal letter to figure out their interpretation of the agreement

#

I can't really think of anything else they could do, if your expecting jujst an opinion on what to do they are only going to suggest services

#

unless you have a saint of a lawyer or something

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:50 PM

#

Not on an opinion on what to do but on what the contract is saying exactly.

#

They should know right?

#

That no, this doesn't include source.

#

But! They could fight it under court with this clause and might win

#

That kind of thing

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 4:52 PM

#

In a perfect world they would offer that yeah. But it's more likely they are going to talk up the complications involved, go over the court system and how it would be the one to judge what is in the contract or not, and give you the opinion that its not clear but they would fight for you if you believe in it and offer ways to communicate the other party etc.

#

Like the likelihood of you walking out of one of those offices with a clear mind on your stance after 1 meeting is low in my opinion but anything's possible.

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

@vocal meadow That does make sense, thanks for putting things into perspective. Sounds like I'll just be right back to where I am now.

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 4:55 PM

#

If its a free consultation (i doubt it will be) then go for it

#

but yeah expectations on them just telling you exactly how a judge/court would interpret it is low imo

regal cloak Apr 1, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

@vocal meadow This isn't your first rodeo is it?

vocal meadow Apr 1, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

nope

tough totem Apr 2, 2020, 1:01 AM

#

Idk if this goes here or #design-chat but I'm looking for people that have read C++ Books to learn C++ and then become good with UE4. Any good books that are maybe 20$ or so and can really help me learn C++ so I can get into UE4

vocal meadow Apr 2, 2020, 1:04 AM

#

would give #cpp a try, they are an almost entirely separate community over there.

tough totem Apr 2, 2020, 1:08 AM

#

Alright

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:30 AM

#

so, something thats always bugged me... are games industry jobs as risky as im led to believe they are?

#

currently i work as an IT manager and software lead outside of the games industry. my job is stable and pretty secure, could be called a job for life, in a mid sized family run engineering company.

#

its my understanding that theres no such job security in game development, that you risk being laid off and potentially re-hired (or NOT) at the end of each project and start of a new one, and that developers change studios extremely often, its just the way things are

#

is this correct, or am i getting a skewed view of the situation? also does this vary between different parts of the industry (e.g. industry, small studio, large AAA publisher setup) and different parts of the world?

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:34 AM

#

its my understanding that theres no such job security in game development, that you risk being laid off and potentially re-hired (or NOT) at the end of each project and start of a new one, and that developers change studios extremely often, its just the way things are
@brave owl
no worries, it's not a standard

#

yes, it varies between "parts of the industry" - and general rules would be similar to other sectors of IT

#

large AAA companies hire hundreds of people, and they care about people
Ubisoft or EA prioritizes financial results and keeping workforce happy over "innovation" in games (or being rebels) - they go "safe" with development, it means stable workplace

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:40 AM

#

ah ok 🙂

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:40 AM

#

often details depend on country, i.e. it's a "bigger decision" to hire someone in more "socialistic" country like Sweden or Canada, as employer has more obligations but than employer cares more about you
i.e. my friend got EA stocks just after starting job in DICE Stockholm - regular corporation

#

it can vary, there are some AAA that care less about work-life balance (Naughty Dog, Rockstar, CDP)

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:41 AM

#

pretty much like the uk, in the uk employees have a lot of rights but those rights only apply after a probationary period

#

usually a year

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:41 AM

#

and indies can be very different, still there are many indie companies with pile of cash and carefully planning production

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:41 AM

#

so if a project didnt last a year youd have no come-back if they laid you off without notice

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

oh, nasty

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

but thats the same in any industry

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

but this more a country thing I guess

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

during your probationary period, they can fire or lay you off without notice or redundancy package

#

after your probationary period you get a whole slew of rights

shut tree Apr 2, 2020, 9:42 AM

#

here they let you go for a certain period to rehire you a few months later, otherwize they have to offer a perm contract

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:43 AM

#

its as a get out clause so that if companies hire an absolute asshole thats an idiot but doesnt directly do gross misconduct, they can still get rid of them

#

assuming they realise such a thing during the probationary period

#

😄

#

where i work now there was an old guy who was unprofessional to everyone, insulting them, being an ass, and he got away with it for decades

#

until i started, and took a stand against him... he got fired in the end

#

he used to make people actually cry

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:44 AM

#

in Poland there's "work contract" - with all the privileges, like your "after probation period", supposed to be standard for every office worker
but we have another contract type - without rights, but only 9% tax and "gentleman deal" on days off (20-26 paid days off)

#

and pseudo-self-company contract (don't ask)

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:44 AM

#

ah

#

in the uk we have this nasty thing too called a zero hours contract... its common in the service industry

#

basically your contract doesnt guarantee you any number of hours a week

#

each morning they email or call you and tell you the first N people at the gates at 9am get to work that day

#

if they have work available

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:45 AM

#

wtf, is this even legal?

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:45 AM

#

and because they arent contracting you to 39 hours, you have no rights to holidays, sick pay, etc

#

yeah unfortunately

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

I mean, we have such thing like when you're working on farm

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

and it only persists because people are desperate enough to agree to it

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

and we have this "no holidays, sick pay" or even retire fund paid - it's like zero hours contract

#

unless in reality it's 40h/per week regular job, usually 😄

shut tree Apr 2, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

nah man the farmer here would totally tell u the previous day if u can come here

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

historically its been a way for companies to legally abuse immigrant workers, e.g. someone comes from eastern europe and will work in jobs that people from the uk wont (theyre snobbish 😄 ) and the company will try to tie them to zero hours

shut tree Apr 2, 2020, 9:47 AM

#

its not first come first serve

#

thats just crazy

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:47 AM

#

its a strange thing that in the uk theres no shortage of jobs, but the jobless are fussy about the kind of work theyll do

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:47 AM

#

it's the same way we treat immigrants here, I guess
Ukrainians and other more-Eastern-Europe people work at farms or Uber 😉

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:48 AM

#

clean a toilet? work a night shift? pick vegetables on a farm? hell no. lol

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:48 AM

#

because jobless are usually the laziest people

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:48 AM

#

personally if i was desperate for money i'd do any job to feed my family

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:48 AM

#

they want money, they demand gov support

shut tree Apr 2, 2020, 9:48 AM

#

not every1 can handle nightshift

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

everyone can clean a toilet, but it's better to get money from gov 😉

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

govt dont give much

#

barely enough to get groceries

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

and alcohol

#

so it's enough 😄

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

#

you wont starve on govt benefits, but its not something that lets you afford luxuries, can be hard to even run a car

#

so it can be a vicious circle

#

dont get enough to afford internet, and to get transport to look for work etc, so cant find work, so stay on benefits

#

but oddly enough, there are many outright abusers who seem to live very comfortably on it by claiming every benefit they can

#

theyre depressed, and they have a bad back, and they have 30 kids, and they need this and that...

#

but no matter what the tabloid press will tell you those people are a tiny minority vs the honest majority

#

i was jobless for about a year 15 or so years ago

#

it was horrid, and i didnt even have to worry about paying rent, lived with my parents at the time

#

from what ive heard the government have cracked down even more and given less and less to the unemployed over the years

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:53 AM

#

well, for many immigrants it's still a huge leap - have a house, some food
some basic pleasures like TV is basically free
why work? 😛

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:53 AM

#

lol

#

if you come to the uk from another country, you cant even claim any government benefits until youve worked a job in the uk for a set amount of time

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:54 AM

#

so you work any job for required amount of time, and then rest 😛

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:54 AM

#

its to stop people immediately coming to the uk and claiming everything, there are a few humanitarian exceptions e.g. valid asylum seekers

#

the required time is "years" btw

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:54 AM

#

it was plague in Poland when law allowed people to work like a year, than have unemployed benefits for half of year

#

that trained people to do the least they can do

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:55 AM

#

basically, the funds that cover your unemployment are built up from working, its called national insurance contribution....so if you havent worked you have no pot to fall back on

#

the same kind of covers people whove spent their whole lives here, you cant go straight from school onto the unemployment queue

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:55 AM

#

yeah, anyway.... speaking of job stability... in gamedev...
it's obviously the best to live in some hub, where are at least companies nearby - so you'd be fine if some company would shut down or they would simply make angry with low pay, chaos or some personal issues (you know, many bosses are "world-class artists" first, later business people)

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:55 AM

#

(didnt used to be that way, there used to be a tiny fraction of people whod never worked a day in their life and were like 50-60 years old)

#

ah

#

yeah it sounds a lot like IT in general

#

i think im lucky to have landed in the job i landed in, was kind of headhunted

#

currently all my gamedev is indie and in my free time, it doesnt really pay at all

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:57 AM

#

most probably, as software engineer, you'd get a smaller salary than IT
it can be noticeable difference in UK 😉

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:57 AM

#

i put in only what i can afford to lose, and consider it money spent on a hobby like how people might go watch a sports game

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:57 AM

#

here gamedev programmer still earns 3-5 times more than minimal pay

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:58 AM

#

we're hiring atm for a full stack developer to work in my dept, theres been quite a few apply who are wanting to leave the games industry

#

they all want like £45-60k a year

#

which tbh is a lot of money outside of London

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 9:59 AM

#

oh, so maybe things change in recent years

#

good to hear 🙂

brave owl Apr 2, 2020, 9:59 AM

#

lol, where i work they wont pay them that

#

its a stable, reliable job, but its not the highest paid job in IT

#

the way i see it the higher your wage the bigger risk you take on, in terms of stress, lack of work/life balance etc

#

if theyre paying you a boatload of cash they expect to get their moneys worth right?

gentle chasm Apr 2, 2020, 10:03 AM

#

yep

#

also often they can pay more if

not working on awesome IP or some boring kind of game (freemium mobile, online casino)
company released few "ambitious" games but not great ones, so they need to offer more - developers want to work on The Witcher and shit, if you're not doing that, pay better in exchange 😉

#

and industry here in Poland is booming, companies grow to fast, so they struggle to find developers, offered salary goes way up

#

there are companies making games that you would never be super-proud of, but those are very profitable products - they pay well even there's less risk, relaxed schedules, etc

#

although working there could feel very similar to regular IT 😉

flat gazelle Apr 2, 2020, 10:33 AM

#

I've never been unemployed in the games industry. The longest break I've had between jobs have been a couple of days due to relocation.

#

So far never been made redundant.

#

So it's not a universal truth that it's an unstable industry.

kind hollow Apr 2, 2020, 10:44 AM

#

@flat gazelle what do you do ?

flat gazelle Apr 2, 2020, 10:44 AM

#

VFX artist

ionic mica Apr 2, 2020, 10:44 AM

#

there is a hint in his name 😄

flat gazelle Apr 2, 2020, 10:44 AM

#

O.O

#

The jig is up. They are on to me

kind hollow Apr 2, 2020, 10:45 AM

#

And you always were in games, did you ever combined the industry with the movie industry?

#

Oho

#

I mean did you ever work outside of games

flat gazelle Apr 2, 2020, 10:46 AM

#

I've never worked outside games.

#

My first job was junior VFX artist

#

So I have never even switched department

kind hollow Apr 2, 2020, 10:47 AM

#

I see, and do you think that part of always having a job was that you were in a studio and not freelance, or you got lucky?

flat gazelle Apr 2, 2020, 10:48 AM

#

I've worked at 4 studios and a short stint of freelancing.

#

I've worked in a studio with 700 people, and I joined one as employee number 13, so I've tried a few different setups.

bronze dew Apr 2, 2020, 8:03 PM

#

sounds like you have a trifecta working for you 😉

#

(I say that in the nicest way hehe)

flat gazelle Apr 3, 2020, 7:02 AM

#

Trifecta sounds like a delicious candy bar.

proven pulsar Apr 4, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

Hello

#

I want to learn some prices how much is going to cost me to make 18 different 3d models and playable with rigged animations of UE4.

flat gazelle Apr 4, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

Without more info, I'd say you are looking at a few months worth of work. So I'd budget 3000 - 30000 usd depending on quality.

proven pulsar Apr 4, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

I made some 3d models myself but they are not looking too good.

#

CS 1.6 quality

#

Counter Strike 1.6 quality models ? that expensive

#

I have 3dmax files but they are not good quality he needs to fix my rookie models then port and rig to UE4.

plucky hatch Apr 4, 2020, 8:44 PM

#

3000$ ?? Damn I'm a Static Mesher Modeler tbh but that seems like quite a lot . Depends of course but humans ... why wouldn't you copy and paste rigs ? And characters ... buy one and tune it .
I mean sure it's gonna be worth something but best case up to 166$/ Character ?
Seems pretty inefficient ._.

bronze dew Apr 4, 2020, 8:52 PM

#

there is a lack of info here...

kind crater Apr 4, 2020, 8:55 PM

#

well 3000$ for a few months of work is on the low side imo

bronze dew Apr 4, 2020, 8:55 PM

#

hence the 30,000 😛

#

I think people forget there's a huge range of skill levels and demand levels here

plucky hatch Apr 4, 2020, 9:45 PM

#

Anyone know a more reliable source for freelance or contractual work?

#

Especially in a COVID quarantine crisis?

flat gazelle Apr 4, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

A a comparison with my freelance rate, 166$ per character would mean I spent at most 1 or 2 hours on it. What sort of quality would you get from that? Modeling, texturing, rigging, animating and it sounds like there would be editor work as well so, shading and hookups.

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In a AAA studio that would be a task for several weeks fulltime involving various people.

gentle chasm Apr 4, 2020, 10:28 PM

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yeah, it could be even 20 workdays for a single major character in the game

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but characters made out of components would be cheaper and populate game with variety

flat gazelle Apr 4, 2020, 10:30 PM

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20 days from zero to finished sounds very conservative. At least in AAA. But with fewer iterations, it could probably be done.

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But then again, I'm not part of that pipe at all so what do I know 😛

west sonnet Apr 4, 2020, 10:33 PM

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Full stack and from scratch? Yeah that’s crunchtime speed for AAA quality.

flat gazelle Apr 4, 2020, 10:42 PM

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I know character artists who'd be happy to even get an approved concept in that time 😛

mystic hull Apr 4, 2020, 10:48 PM

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Hire more people!!! kappa

#

On a more serious note though, when does a company decide whether or not to hire?

#

Surely there is a cap to how many games one can churn out per X months regardless, no?

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Sorry for business illiteracy, really curious though

flat gazelle Apr 4, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

Fighting for headcount is a very competetive sport that directors and leads do.

#

At the beginning of a project, there's just a small team. They come up with the general direction and in very broad strokes what the game is and isn't. From this they can start getting leads and experts on the various different areas. They will then do a bunch of excercises where they try to scope out how much work it would be to build all the things. This then comes back to directors who either have a pile of cash, or they have to pitch to a publisher or the like for a pile of cash. Once that pile of cash has been sized up, you look over the plan again and see what parts of it you can afford. From there you either adjust the scope or change headcounts around from one department to another.
Further down the project, if the scope changes for any reason, the leads have to reevaluate and figure out if they need more headcount to pull it off.

There's a lot of excelsheets and powerpoints going in all directions through this whole process.

#

Generalizing heavily here of course.

#

This is skipping past the whole concept of gates and project frameworks that all large companies use.

mystic hull Apr 4, 2020, 11:07 PM

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Very insightful my friend, thank you

proven pulsar Apr 5, 2020, 9:05 AM

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@flat gazelle I have 3d models ready but I can't use them, 3D models must be changed by artist then ported to UE4 or i will get copyright/trademark infringement.

flat gazelle Apr 5, 2020, 9:07 AM

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That's the reddest of flags. As a professional, I would never consider working with you. Ripping models huh?

proven pulsar Apr 5, 2020, 9:07 AM

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I also don't have the budget right now, I need wait until Summer for my uncle to give me a small loan.

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Not ripping models using as reference

flat gazelle Apr 5, 2020, 9:08 AM

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The act of ripping them is not allowed. You also said you wanted them modified. Reusing any of them is not allowed. What you are asking for is illegal.

proven pulsar Apr 5, 2020, 9:09 AM

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China doing that just fine.

flat gazelle Apr 5, 2020, 9:09 AM

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<@&213101288538374145> Is asking for illegal services allowed here?

proven pulsar Apr 5, 2020, 9:09 AM

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I'm against stealing another man's work.

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I'm only using Male and Woman with underwear body from another game to test things lols 😄

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I know the Laws, If i make something that law allows it, It wont be illegal there is 50 shades of gray 😄

granite brook Apr 5, 2020, 9:15 AM

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For your own project, you can do whatever you want. As long as you aren't reselling things.
Furthermore, I don't see them asking for ripping assets. They stated to have bad looking 3D meshes they made themselves.
And these should be brushed up.

proven pulsar Apr 5, 2020, 9:16 AM

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I want artist to use 3d model from another game and make a similar model with lots of changes. Use as reference.

flat gazelle Apr 5, 2020, 9:16 AM

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...

proven pulsar Apr 5, 2020, 9:17 AM

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I am talking things like M1A2 Abrams Tank, M4A1 etc.

granite brook Apr 5, 2020, 9:18 AM

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Maybe you should rephrase this. It's fine to use images of other meshes as a reference.
That's usually how you communicate artstyle etc. anyway. If you need such a service, check #looking-for-talent

proven pulsar Apr 5, 2020, 9:19 AM

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I will search for talent later, I'm doing coding now 3d models later.

granite brook Apr 5, 2020, 9:21 AM

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Either way, asking for prices here won't help you. Every person asks for different amounts, based on experience.
You have to create a proper request, explain exactly what you need and then get a quote from said artist.

#

Meanwhile, @plucky hatch writes their lifestory.

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(hope that was the right ping)

plucky hatch Apr 5, 2020, 9:23 AM

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😂

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Yea stopped writing, had a "sudden" idea

west sonnet Apr 5, 2020, 11:10 AM

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What character artist doesn’t have their own base human reference? ~~Ripping asset isn’t necessary.~~ There’s absolutely no reason to rip asset for “reference”.

merry sequoia Apr 5, 2020, 4:53 PM

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^ as a 3D artist primarily, this.

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Plenty of Abrams or body references out there. Stock photos and the like. Hell even free models used specifically for education.

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If all you want to do is communicate art style / aesthetics then screenshots generally do the job just fine

pastel estuary Apr 6, 2020, 11:11 AM

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Hello @copper roost!
please read the #old-rules the #more-resources and double-check channel topics before posting somewhere :)

copper roost Apr 6, 2020, 11:30 AM

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Ok sorry guys 😉

unkempt bay Apr 7, 2020, 3:47 AM

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I wish I can do 3D programming as a career sometime

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I’m 13

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So got a little more ahead of me

candid oak Apr 7, 2020, 3:47 AM

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Bro I’m not that far adhead of you. I’m 16

#

Learn a language

#

Try python or javascript first

unkempt bay Apr 7, 2020, 3:48 AM

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I’m doing blue prints rn and did a little c++

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I’ve made a 2d game in unity with c++

candid oak Apr 7, 2020, 3:48 AM

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Are you new to programming

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@unkempt bay how much experience do you have

unkempt bay Apr 7, 2020, 3:56 AM

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About 4 months

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I use to do scratch 2 years ago and really fluent in it right now😂

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@candid oak

candid oak Apr 7, 2020, 3:57 AM

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How’s the c++

unkempt bay Apr 7, 2020, 3:59 AM

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I can send a video tmr, simple 2d platformer, very ugly😂

candid oak Apr 7, 2020, 4:01 AM

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I’m just wondering

unkempt bay Apr 7, 2020, 4:01 AM

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I’m making a 3D FPS game rn

#

#design-chat

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@candid oak u got any other tips?

candid oak Apr 7, 2020, 4:09 AM

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Tips for what?

unkempt bay Apr 7, 2020, 4:12 AM

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@candid oak to like learn for the future

candid oak Apr 7, 2020, 4:14 AM

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Well if you like c++ then go ahead, I recommend not learning it so early, try javascript or something in order to get the basics down it helps a lot. Keep following your passion 👍

unkempt bay Apr 7, 2020, 4:15 AM

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Ok thanks

vocal meadow Apr 7, 2020, 6:27 AM

#

I started with c++ at 16, didn’t know what I was doing in it until moving to unrealscript and back. You should stick with what interests you @unkempt bay . If your not really understanding it, that’s when you’d move to something more complicated but easier to pick up like JavaScript . If you intend on doing something cool with ue4 blueprints are the best thing you can stay with. The c++ will make more sense once you get into blueprints

mystic hull Apr 7, 2020, 6:28 AM

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C++ is amazing tbh 👀

flat gazelle Apr 7, 2020, 7:02 AM

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Well that made me feel ancient

hybrid phoenix Apr 7, 2020, 7:47 AM

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I uh... I think he started in C#, though, not C++... Unity doesn't support cpp...

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@unkempt bay You used Unity's standard language, right? That's C#

vocal meadow Apr 7, 2020, 7:48 AM

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Technically could have been p/invoke, doubt it though

hybrid phoenix Apr 7, 2020, 7:49 AM

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Yeah 😛

flat gazelle Apr 7, 2020, 7:53 AM

#

I was fighting mel syntax when people were still surprised that defusefps could turn over on his own... It's fascinating to see how different it is, for every year. Now, you can decide on wanting to try gamedev, and the next day have a chat with working pros. Ten years ago, that could potentially happen through a forum if you were extremely lucky. Ten years before that, there was pretty much no way for that to happen. I wonder how this fact have directed the industry, without us knowing. It's a rather cool development.

vocal meadow Apr 7, 2020, 8:03 AM

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Lol Mel syntax. Idk, 16 was a long time ago for me. Just realized I’ve doubled that age by now lol. But by 20 I had made some pretty good connections through the internet way back then. I think the accessibility of entering into game dev has hurt people being able to make it a living. Not because there is more developers but more that there are so many landmines in getting started. Subscriptions everywhere is really not something I could have predicted and the companies that have monetized development through paid dark theme and better documents over performing

unkempt bay Apr 7, 2020, 1:48 PM

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It might’ve been C# then idk, sorry @hybrid phoenix

hybrid phoenix Apr 7, 2020, 1:48 PM

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All good, just making sure

steel creek Apr 7, 2020, 3:22 PM

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MEL is just C-syntax. it's what aliaswavefront was using for code, so dude made C lite aka MEL.

full disclosure i hate MEL. ditched it in 2007 - the instant Maya added python.

#

For somebody who's hungry and wants to do this kind of work it's got to be a freaking Breeze these days to be able to see all this information in front of you and to talk to experts all the time.

#

I had to deal with reading books, no online Internet nothing and good luck with your dreams

west sonnet Apr 7, 2020, 3:41 PM

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https://tenor.com/3Snw.gif

Tenor

wary idol Apr 8, 2020, 4:44 PM

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I'm 20 now lol

When I was 12 I started with C# and Unity, moved to C++ at 15 and started learning UE4/C++ shortly after

I feel like it is a lot easier to learn that stuff at younger age, it also helps that there are a ton of learning resources

steel merlin Apr 8, 2020, 5:02 PM

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An often over-looked advantage of the young in terms of learning is how much more free time they have to do it

wary idol Apr 8, 2020, 5:07 PM

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Yeah that's true

steel merlin Apr 8, 2020, 5:35 PM

#

I know more and have more tools now in my 30s that make learning new things faster/easier, but I just don't have the hours to put into it like I did in my teens. Brute-force counts for a lot sometimes 😄

vocal meadow Apr 8, 2020, 5:38 PM

#

Try Houdini zoomba if it’s not something you already specialize in

#

You’ll be feeling like you can pick up anything again lol

steel merlin Apr 8, 2020, 5:40 PM

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haha

candid oak Apr 8, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

Anyone know of any companies that would possibly hire a 17 year old intern?

bronze dew Apr 8, 2020, 11:53 PM

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don't concentrate on your age... you need to know what you can offer them.. .and show you can learn quickly

candid oak Apr 9, 2020, 1:50 AM

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Trying my best

#

I got things to offer, rn I’m learning ue4. Trying to get the hang of things

lucid mesa Apr 9, 2020, 6:06 AM

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hello everyone my name is karthik, i am from India, i have a confusion about unreal engine job career.... i have started learning unreal engine. but what type of job i will get...

#

i am searching jobs in google but it is showing very less... is there scope on this unreal engine

west sonnet Apr 9, 2020, 6:23 AM

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Jobs aren’t engine specific. Things such as tech artist, gameplay programmer, vfx artist, combat designer, lighting artist, and builds engineer, to name a random few possible position to have.

lucid mesa Apr 9, 2020, 6:26 AM

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how to know more about that position what you specified above...

west sonnet Apr 9, 2020, 6:27 AM

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A good trick is to read the credits of your favourite game. Everyone is listed by their title 😉

#

Generally speaking. There are 3 major concentrations in game development. Art, Design, Programming. Then there’s the 3 lesser known concentration; production, marketing, qa. Figure out which category you’re interested in and narrow your search.

I forgot about audio. I’m so sorry hearing people

lucid mesa Apr 9, 2020, 7:26 AM

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Thank you HighTide .... can you share some for demo reel of designers and programmers...

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i didn't find anywhere

west sonnet Apr 9, 2020, 7:31 AM

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Just google people’s name

lucid mesa Apr 9, 2020, 7:44 AM

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can you suggest some names

west sonnet Apr 9, 2020, 7:44 AM

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https://discordapp.com/channels/187217643009212416/226110055328514048/697694112748535859

vocal meadow Apr 9, 2020, 7:44 AM

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Hideo Kojima, John Carmack, Shigeru Miyamoto. Idk if non graphical designers really have demo reels? They do have games though. Games are likely the better thing to demo reel

west sonnet Apr 9, 2020, 7:47 AM

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Allan Alcorn 😜

vivid flax Apr 9, 2020, 2:18 PM

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Whats the take on portfolio sites? Artstation is really nice but is there a bad mojo perception from employers if a job hunter has their own website like wix?
TBH I didn't think it mattered as long as the design and quality of the work showed...but my manager had many comments about that when we were hiring people.

hybrid phoenix Apr 9, 2020, 2:20 PM

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Working with your own site will do nothing other than negatively impact your first impressions (if it's bad) and making it harder to navigate for HR people skimming through loads of people's

pastel estuary Apr 9, 2020, 2:20 PM

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art-station is clear, so the employers dont need to figure out how to use it. anything that derives from it might make them close it pre-maturely.

#

so unless their first impression is "HOLY **** this persons stuff is amazeballs" they might just go "meh" close

hybrid phoenix Apr 9, 2020, 2:21 PM

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If you're not applying as web-designer, don't think you'll win people over by having your own website, it'll just get in the way

pastel estuary Apr 9, 2020, 2:21 PM

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^

hybrid phoenix Apr 9, 2020, 2:21 PM

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It's like putting your age/photo on your CV

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Maybe if you're exactly what they had in mind it'll help... But really in 99.9% of cases it'll only negatively impact you

vivid flax Apr 9, 2020, 2:29 PM

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Cool, thanks guys

opal vortex Apr 9, 2020, 2:29 PM

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Hello Im from india , I started UE 6 months back but left it in 2 weeks due to exams. But now i started again with a plan of making my career in this.So i know C++ from high school and Im 17. So Im starting with BP. When should i start using both c++ and bp and how many years do i need to becomes a pro in this

#

And is it possible to get a job rightaway in 4years

#

How do AAA companies recruit ppl

gentle chasm Apr 9, 2020, 4:54 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/basket-cats-traps-gotcha-trick-gif-3485191

Tenor

cat traps

▶ Play video

#

this is how AAA companies recruit devs 😛

west sonnet Apr 9, 2020, 5:02 PM

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“Sign your 3 year non compete form even though you’re a contractor. Don’t worry about it.” 😜

vocal meadow Apr 9, 2020, 5:03 PM

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So many landmines 😓

tacit siren Apr 9, 2020, 6:03 PM

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@opal vortex you start with c++ when the blueprint limitations start to annoy you

mystic hull Apr 9, 2020, 6:55 PM

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@opal vortex you start with c++ when the blueprint limitations start to annoy you
You still want to explore with new things on a regular basis, so that BPs actually do start to annoy you

tacit siren Apr 9, 2020, 6:56 PM

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that you do

rare citrus Apr 9, 2020, 7:07 PM

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@opal vortex then C++ starts to annoy you because of limitations or whateverand you decide to design your own language

digital gate Apr 9, 2020, 7:53 PM

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Eh, IMO we're a few years past that. You'd probably migrate to D or Rust or wait for Jai

rare citrus Apr 9, 2020, 8:13 PM

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@digital gate that was actually a reference to Jonathan

digital gate Apr 9, 2020, 8:18 PM

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Oh nice

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:17 AM

#

Hey I’m 13, if I were to do UE4 or any 3D programmer what are some tips you guys can give me, because I really want to do this as a job, and how old do you have to be to work for a company?

formal valve Apr 10, 2020, 3:19 AM

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@unkempt bay I'm... not 13. Much older. And a professional programmer. My #1 advice to you would be to just create your own stuff. Develop a portfolio of cool stuff while building up your skills.

#

You'll generally not be able to get a job in the US (since you didn't specify company I have to assume) until you're 18.

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:20 AM

#

Alright thanks @formal valve , and I know you could work at like a market basket at 15 so I didn’t know if there was a certain age. My bigger hope would be Epic Games, or a dream would even be to make a company

formal valve Apr 10, 2020, 3:20 AM

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You can get jobs at 15/16 in a lot of places, but it depends on the job. Something like manual labor is more likely than a skilled job like programming.

#

I'd say follow your dreams. Now is the PERFECT time for you, because though you don't realize it, you'll probably never have more free time than you do at this age. It's the great time to just pour into making yourself a great coder.

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:22 AM

#

I'd say exceptions can be made for the brighter individuals amongst us, but for that you'll have to be brighter than most.

I also started early (at 14-15?), and I work in game dev today - I would definitely say drop the "I want to work young" part, and instead, "I will work on my own hobby projects, and use the time I have at younger ages to learn more, improve faster & build a rich presence for myself to be seen"

#

If I had someone tell me so back when I had started, I would've probably been in a much better place right now 😛

#

I'm 23 years old now, for reference

#

Being young usually means you have a lot more time, less responsibilities and overall a lot more brain power to spare, use it to your advantage.

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:24 AM

#

Alrifht thanks for y’all tips

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:26 AM

#

One last tip: Learn the fundementals, seek them.
Following tutorials teach you how things work, but not why things work. More often than not, the why aspect will make you able to create genuine, creative things, that knowing just the how will not.

#

Let your curiousity lead the way, really 😛

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:26 AM

#

Yeah I’ve been working on a game, online multiplayer 3v3. I’ve been following Curtis and his stuff

#

Virtus*

#

He’s really helpful and makes it more fun

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:27 AM

#

Get hands dirty with trying things when you have a question yeah. Getting used to knowing how to figure things out is something that will serve you well

#

No shame in asking questions though

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:29 AM

#

The game Rn I’m trying to make has a character selection which I’ve been trying to do on my own, it’s a bit hard but I’m getting there. I wanna teach myself kinda but I go to YouTube videos if I’m really stuck

#

I’ve been doing landscape a lot

#

Thinking about using blender to start making some custom environments like rocks and trees

#

Fooliage to

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:29 AM

#

there are so many amazing tutorials and free assets to learn from currently

#

I started pretty young also... but this kind of stuff was very much only in the realm of very expensive gear / software

#

some amazing resources here

#

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/onlinelearning-courses

Unreal Online Learning

Unreal Online Learning is a gamified learning platform that offers free, hands-on video courses and guided learning paths.

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:30 AM

#

Try reading though, it's a lot more efficient than following videos & is really worth the effort - I personally learned that the hard way

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:31 AM

#

hard to find good reading tutorials however

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:31 AM

#

At least for topics that you can read about

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:31 AM

#

your best bet is to get used to pausing videos alot

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:31 AM

#

Also don’t start your 3D modeling career learning soft image xsi. Learned that one the hard way

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:31 AM

#

and running them at ether slower or faster speeds

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:31 AM

#

Videos I feel are easy since I have 2 monitors I can try to see the difference and find a fix

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:31 AM

#

that works well

#

I had my first duel screen setup by 17

#

to be fair.. that was rare then

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:32 AM

#

Yeah 😂

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:32 AM

#

That'll work for blueprints, but not for actual code 😛 At some point maybe in the future, you'll find certain info lacking in videos, or that they're becoming inconvenient for certain tasks

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:32 AM

#

I had 1 then a while back my neighbor gave me one he didn’t use

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:32 AM

#

When you get there, try reading.

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:32 AM

#

this is true

#

coding is better read...

#

you need to learn / understand logic paths

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:32 AM

#

Books are also usually more structured, organized etc

#

they'll help you build better recognition patterns

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

both are valuable

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

Alright, thank you guys for such help🤍

#

I do got a coding book

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

firepit

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

My brother had so I’m a start reading that soon

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

Im overall just giving wide guidelines from my own experience though, so take with a small grain of salt 😅

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

Thanks

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

but... one thing I'd suggest... is pick one area to begin with.. this field is massive.. and will swallow your soul 😉

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

OH AND THIS! Discipline > Motivation

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

I'm at 21 years in this field now

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

For real, probably the most important one

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

Blueprints and visual coding is likely a future

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

You'll lose motivation, but you control your discipline

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

I've been able to get away with visual programming for almost 5 years now

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:34 AM

#

So wouldn’t hesitate learning all you can

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:35 AM

#

but.. even saying that.. I was exposed to programming since I was 8

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:35 AM

#

You'll lose motivation, but you control your discipline
@mystic hull I feel this is phrased wrong, hopefully the point can be seen

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

Do y’all work at a company

#

Or work on your own games and portfolio?

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

I'm currently in between work.

#

I might be at microsoft soon

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

I've worked (and do now) for companies under a contract (so more on the freelancing side)

#

Currently my first long-term game-dev related job though

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

Nice u work on any released games?

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:39 AM

#

its an indie though, so yeah

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

yup

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

Nope, nothing released yet over here

#

Hopefully soon 😛

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

but I'm still under NDA for my latest

#

and the others... eh... 😐

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

Ngl I don’t know if u heard of brackeys but that’s how I started coding

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

I love brackeys 😄

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

I made a 2d game in unity for schooo

#

Then went to UE4

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:40 AM

#

Quite the cheerful guy, he's probably the only reason I don't hate unity lol

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

crazy.. .when I was 13.... urm... we used autocad... and made a toaster

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

Lmao

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

it took 2 months for the teacher to do it

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

I haven’t tried unity 3d

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

I had it done on the first day

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

Ha

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

Stick with UE4, it'll give you a better intrance into game dev

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

but to be fair.. artistic mother... programmer father...

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

Harder to do certain things in, but overall the better experience amongst the two

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:41 AM

#

agreed

#

I learned more in my first week of Unreal.. then 6 years of unity

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

Honestly though, why do I feel old all of a sudden 😅

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

U wanna know what I’m a pro at tho

#

Scratch

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

Scratch?

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

2 years and I’m fluent in everything

#

Never heard of it

#

https://scratch.mit.edu

Scratch - Imagine, Program, Share

Scratch is a free programming language and online community where you can create your own interactive stories, games, and animations.

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

Don’t know it

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

It’s like blue prints

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

Cool

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

But way simpler

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

You’ll enjoy BP

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

It’s like more 2d and no programmers use it but it’s what tech teachers show u

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:43 AM

#

Btw... get Gaia

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

📎 image0.png

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What’s gaia

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:46 AM

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terrain gen

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it has a free version

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:47 AM

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Never heard of it

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:47 AM

#

https://quadspinner.com/

QuadSpinner.com - Gaea

QuadSpinner creates the industry's most loved terrain design tools for games, films, and virtual experiences.

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will rock your socks

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:47 AM

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U can use that for ue4

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And maps and stuff

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 3:48 AM

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yup

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has some limitations... but still super good

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especially with unreals new terrain tools

unkempt bay Apr 10, 2020, 3:51 AM

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Might try it out

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Thanks

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 4:26 AM

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There's #looking-for-talent for that 😛

restive hawk Apr 10, 2020, 4:26 AM

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woops thanks!

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 4:26 AM

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👌

restive hawk Apr 10, 2020, 4:28 AM

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How do I post there via bot?

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what commands?

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 4:32 AM

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Look at the pinned message in that channel @restive hawk

restive hawk Apr 10, 2020, 4:32 AM

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Thanks

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 12:58 PM

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I wonder what the policy is for posting stuff from games you've worked on that has a higher age rating than the people asking about it here 😛 Is that unethical?

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 12:59 PM

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"I agree to being 18 years old or above" ☑️

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there, done 😅

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 1:18 PM

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hehe

pastel estuary Apr 10, 2020, 1:20 PM

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@flat gazelle wouldnt that fall under "nsfw" even though technically, it was suitable for work?

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 1:20 PM

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Aren't the younglings technically nsfw?

pastel estuary Apr 10, 2020, 1:22 PM

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depends on their country :p

west sonnet Apr 10, 2020, 1:25 PM

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I’m imagining a toddler running around the office pulling cords at this point

pastel estuary Apr 10, 2020, 1:28 PM

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I was imagining one at an iphone manufacturer

mystic hull Apr 10, 2020, 1:28 PM

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Come on now guys I'm old enough 😦

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 1:51 PM

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I've only worked on two game rated below Mature in the last ehmm... 8 years?

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 1:51 PM

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How many yrs does it take to be a professional in ue

pastel estuary Apr 10, 2020, 1:52 PM

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as long as it takes

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been using unreal engine for about 18 years now, still dont feel like a pro

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 1:54 PM

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What does it meant o be professional in an engine?

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 1:55 PM

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Woah 18

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Im still 17.5 yrs old

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So have u worked for any AAA company or an indie?

pastel estuary Apr 10, 2020, 1:56 PM

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bit of both, mainly for indie clients though

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 1:56 PM

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@flat gazelle Like know how to use all the functions and events

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Oh

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So after u r good enough how did they find u or u went and applied?

pastel estuary Apr 10, 2020, 1:57 PM

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networking for me.

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 1:57 PM

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Oh

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 1:57 PM

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I work in AAA

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 1:57 PM

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Oh nice

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 1:57 PM

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I've worked in over 10 engines

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Which is why I don't get the question

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You use whatever the studio needs

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 1:58 PM

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Do u know all the events and functions?

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 1:58 PM

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Nope

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probably never will

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 1:58 PM

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Like know which one to use where

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Oh

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 1:58 PM

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I know how to do things conceptually. The rest is just googling

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 1:58 PM

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Interesting

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 1:59 PM

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The more you work with an engine, the more you know instinctively, but I wouldn't try to build a career on it.

nova tartan Apr 10, 2020, 1:59 PM

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Yeah that's a concept you learn better after working a bit
You learn what is technically possible and a reasonable high level structure and then you figure out how whatever tool the company uses does what you want best through google

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 2:00 PM

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So when u keep working in this engine, how did u know on which field u were good in .Like i hve heard that when creating games u work specifically like designer,programmer,etc

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 2:00 PM

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I like blowing shit up, so that's what I do

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 2:00 PM

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So at the start did u just start creating stuff in the engine or focussed on a specific area

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 2:01 PM

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UE4 didn't exist when I started.

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 2:01 PM

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Oh

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 2:01 PM

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And I don't work in it today

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 2:01 PM

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Oh i see

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 2:01 PM

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But I've been focused on one area my whle career since that's the part I like

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 2:02 PM

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Well first in ue4 what did u do

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Oh so u didnt create an entire game on ur own ?

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I mean i m still a beginner in ue4 , i know to use bp well and using it rn. Also i know c++ cuz thats wat i learnt in high school. Now what do i do to get a good career?

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 2:09 PM

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I've never created an entire game on my own.

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I'm AAA because I like to work on the big stuff.

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Figure out what you enjoy doing as if you are doing it as a career, you'll be doing it for 40 hours per week for the next 40 years or so.

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Building a career in games on something you don't like makes no sense. The money isn't good enough for that kind of suffering.

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 2:12 PM

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I love games

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I mean I have always wanted to work on games

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I chose unreal first cuz it uses c++ and which is what i know

flat gazelle Apr 10, 2020, 2:13 PM

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If you want to work in AAA, find a niche you enjoy doing, and keep doing it until you are good at it.

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If you want to work on smaller games, get a broader understanding.

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 2:44 PM

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Is it possible to combine AI/ML into games

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 2:46 PM

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Very different things

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You could train an ai with ml

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:00 PM

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But in the future is it possible

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Cuz i want my career to be in it sector

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I think its too early to decide

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:02 PM

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They are different fields

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If question is if you can train ai real-time, I don’t see why not

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:03 PM

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Like for ml u fight against ai and it understands the way u fight and then changes its strategy

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Im just 17 and confused what to choose and do

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But have a passion for making games

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:04 PM

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ML is finding answers to questions we don’t know how to answer by computer standards and AI is getting computers to seem intelligent by our standards

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:08 PM

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ML is a subset of AI

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In ML u dont need to alter ur code it automatically adapts rite

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:09 PM

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No

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ML is a process of pruning results

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https://youtu.be/gn4nRCC9TwQ

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:10 PM

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If u play a chrome dino with ML after some generations it learns to jump properly

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:10 PM

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The part your missing is where you have to score the results

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Which is one of the big pillars of ml

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:11 PM

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Oh rite

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:11 PM

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You must set fail conditions and preferred usage. It’s not smart like ai

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:11 PM

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U meant store rite

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:11 PM

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Score

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:11 PM

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Wdym by score results

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You must set fail conditions and preferred usage. It’s not smart like ai
@vocal meadow Ahh I get it

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:12 PM

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ML is not AI. If the results from testing every possible outcome trying to get something to walk you might say: you can’t walk on elbows

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So you have to reject answers that use elbows

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:13 PM

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Yep

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:13 PM

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ML is not smart it is testing every outcome and scoring them to refinement

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https://youtu.be/ZX2Hyu5WoFg watch this entire series

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:14 PM

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So what do u think i should see in a long term future

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My passion is in IT sector and very high for making games

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https://youtu.be/ZX2Hyu5WoFg watch this entire series
@vocal meadow Ok

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:15 PM

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As glad said you either refine one skill or all of them depending on what you like to do

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As far as what will make you most money idk

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It’s hard to make a living in the field because it’s a very saturated market mostly owned by the big publishers

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But if you can make a fun game that people will want to play your only uphill battle is reaching them. Won’t say it’s impossible to reach people but the stores selling games generally push the successful and known to generate income games and don’t take risk in negatively effecting the performance of sales of them

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So working for a big publisher or studio owned by one can let you refine a specific skill set. Trying to do it on your own requires a lot of messy-other-things-than-making-amazing-worlds type stuff.

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:21 PM

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Oh

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That video is good

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Seeing the whole series

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:22 PM

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The whole series is great

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:22 PM

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So if i want to work for AAA how do i specialise in one skill

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:22 PM

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He does a good job of explaining it and where he goes wrong

opal vortex Apr 10, 2020, 3:23 PM

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Like for example a level designer does it mean that i just keep creating levels and making them better and apply for AAA and they take me?

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PS:I dont want to be a level designer actually

vocal meadow Apr 10, 2020, 3:55 PM

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Yeah, just keep trying things and learning. spend slightly less time considering what to look into or not and more time trying things and you'll get a better wealth of knowledge of the kinds of fields you actually enjoy being in

remote inlet Apr 10, 2020, 9:21 PM

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What’s the best platform to start in, in order to get a career in animating? And is that something that I would be better off getting a degree to start out in?

bronze dew Apr 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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2D or 3D animation

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to be fair.. they have more in common these days

#

https://rive.app/ is pretty sweet

Rive - Bring your apps and games to life with real-time animation.

Bring your apps and games to life with real-time animation. Rive is a powerful design and animation tool, which allows designers and developers to easily add high-quality animation to Flutter, iOS, Android, Unity, OpenGL, C++, C#, OpenTK, HTML, JS, and other apps and games.

remote inlet Apr 10, 2020, 9:55 PM

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Definitely 3D

📎 image0.jpg

opal vortex Apr 11, 2020, 3:44 AM

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Does Epic take in ppl for Unreal Engine

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Like not for making games but for making unreal engine better

spice dagger Apr 11, 2020, 3:45 AM

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If you apply for a Job with them sure...

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https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/careers

Epic Games

Epic Games | Careers

We develop cutting-edge games and cross-platform game engine technology!

opal vortex Apr 11, 2020, 3:55 AM

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Oh

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Weird question but who r in demand game developers or game engine developers

bronze dew Apr 11, 2020, 3:59 AM

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they are very different roles...

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engineers are always more demand

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as it requires a very long term set of dedicated skills

digital gate Apr 11, 2020, 4:04 AM

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@opal vortex You can also just make pull requests against the engine

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That's probably a decent avenue in, if your contributions are consistent and good.

opal vortex Apr 11, 2020, 4:06 AM

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U mean to make a code change?

digital gate Apr 11, 2020, 4:06 AM

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Yeah, since it's on github

opal vortex Apr 11, 2020, 4:06 AM

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Oh

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UE code is there in github?

digital gate Apr 11, 2020, 4:07 AM

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https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/ue4-on-github

Unreal Engine 4 on Github

opal vortex Apr 11, 2020, 4:07 AM

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Oh nice

rich hazel Apr 13, 2020, 4:56 AM

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Where can I go to learn in depth things such as parkour and combat?

vocal meadow Apr 13, 2020, 5:52 AM

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#design-chat

gentle stone Apr 13, 2020, 9:36 AM

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What do you guys think of LinkedIn requests of people with 500 plus contacts who you never talked or chatted with? I usually don't accept them even if they work or have worked for a well known company because I don't see a point in a network that doesn't even know who I am 🤔

flat gazelle Apr 13, 2020, 10:34 AM

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If they are in a relevant industry, I generally accept.

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You never know where the next opportunity is going to come from and LinkedIn networks is not your friendlist.

gentle stone Apr 13, 2020, 11:06 AM

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That's my point though, if they find me randomly they can find me randomly again. I'm not sure where the advantage is of having someone in your network thats the same as a complete stranger whose skillsets aren't even properly known at the time of adding because your profile lists "unreal engine tools developer" and the likes, but nothing that gives you a concrete idea

pastel estuary Apr 13, 2020, 11:12 AM

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there is something to be said about the possibility that someone finds you trough their network

hybrid phoenix Apr 13, 2020, 11:21 AM

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LinkedIn connections are generally more of a "this connection may one day be somewhat interesting" kind of deal than a "Oh I know you let's connect"

west sonnet Apr 13, 2020, 11:25 AM

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It’s more of a ‘Why not?’ instead of a ‘Why should I?’ 😜

gentle stone Apr 13, 2020, 11:31 AM

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hm yeah I see the point, but at the same time it could be argued that there isn't really much a point in a 'network' if it's as good as anyone just pressing 'add' on every person they come across. Why have a network then in the first place?

west sonnet Apr 13, 2020, 11:32 AM

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That’s pretty much the current issue.

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And why many people don’t care for LinkedIn. It’s a valid reason

gentle stone Apr 13, 2020, 11:33 AM

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ok gotcha, I thought I might be alone in thinking this

west sonnet Apr 13, 2020, 11:33 AM

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Heavens no

gentle stone Apr 13, 2020, 11:34 AM

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then I think I'll continue treating it as a more closed network thing where I only accept requests when I actually think they have something to offer in the moment

ashen lynx Apr 13, 2020, 11:35 AM

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Saddest part of linked in is inability to have several separate profiles for a single person.

west sonnet Apr 13, 2020, 11:36 AM

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Network the old fashion way. Make friends, contribute to a community, help with projects, exchange knowledge, and most importantly, look out for each other.

hybrid phoenix Apr 13, 2020, 12:41 PM

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My LinkedIn got me my new job

#

Courtesy of someone I'd connected with and never spoken to

#

When I started properly looking for jobs I went through my LinkedIn connections who I thought might be good to talk to about that, and I'm incredibly happy I did, because if not I wouldn't have found this job and by extension have been a lot worse off

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So yeah, I get the feeling, and I don't connect with people that are in no way relevant to anything I'm interested in

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But other than that, you never know

marsh stream Apr 13, 2020, 1:50 PM

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What about connecting with grad students? that have <100 connections? I generally try to connect with 4 -5 people every 2 days . i try to personalize the 'note' that i attach to a connection invite either discussing why i think we should connect or perhaps mentioning i enjoyed/played one of their projects they worked on. I have had probably around 65% that agree to connect .
Would any of you guys think its 'annoying' or a waste of your own time to accept the invite (I usually send invites to people in the discipline im interested in).

hybrid phoenix Apr 13, 2020, 1:53 PM

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For anyone that wants to connect I have a quick look at what they do and whether they're any good at what they do

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So if your profile looks good, I'd probably accept

gentle stone Apr 13, 2020, 4:15 PM

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Cardoor, that's the thing, if they at least attached any sort of message I'd be much more likely to accept as it shows actual interest and not just a "oh he has a job title I like, add" and continuing to scroll through the myriad of people

mystic hull Apr 13, 2020, 4:26 PM

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I used to do that until I got exhausted of the multitude of add notes I wrote

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then I stopped adding people alltogether 😅

gentle stone Apr 13, 2020, 4:28 PM

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I don't add people generally unless there is some direct reason to do so, such as having met and talked before, or I have a question for them because of some of their work I've seen, or j want to get them on board for a project etc

hybrid phoenix Apr 13, 2020, 4:29 PM

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Yup, same

gentle stone Apr 13, 2020, 4:29 PM

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But it's cool that you got your job doing the cold approach goosey

candid oak Apr 13, 2020, 5:34 PM

#

Hey, how can I get others to collaborate on my project in perforce?

bronze dew Apr 13, 2020, 5:39 PM

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@candid oak I feel like your asking for ppl to work with you...... or are you asking on how to share out a perforce server LOL

candid oak Apr 13, 2020, 5:41 PM

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I made a perforce project, and I need help getting my team to be in the project

bronze dew Apr 13, 2020, 5:41 PM

#

#source-control

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there was also a video posted recently on this

candid oak Apr 13, 2020, 5:41 PM

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Sorry wrong channel

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Thanks

undone crest Apr 13, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

I am in highschool and I want to go into the video game industry. I'm going to graduate and go for software engineering in my local college. I've completed one very tiny platformer using this engine, but It was for a school project and so I didn't have time to mess around with custom static meshes so i had to use marketplace and pre-made

#

when going into the industry do I need to be artistic and a great modeler to make it at all

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im very worried as Ive never really been a great artist

west sonnet Apr 13, 2020, 7:04 PM

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If every programmer had a artistic bone in their body. I would be out of a job 😜

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No. The industry wants specialists

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Indie requires more metaphorical hats to wear

undone crest Apr 13, 2020, 7:12 PM

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thank you

narrow vigil Apr 13, 2020, 7:23 PM

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Yeah, if I was required to be able to "make art" I would be in some serious trouble 😉

formal birch Apr 14, 2020, 11:37 AM

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As a fresh graduate, is it better to have experience in:

1 studio in a 9 month internship, working on a strong IP
or 3 different studios each 3 month internship having launched multiple small projects?

#

assuming all of them are small studios

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2020, 12:18 PM

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If a company is willing to have you as an intern for 9 months I'd say you're likely to get a job with them after

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Can't speak for what's better other than that

formal birch Apr 14, 2020, 12:21 PM

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Assuming i'm going to apply for a job in other companies?

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I don't know which one HR's value most, unless they don't really matter xD

shadow kelp Apr 14, 2020, 4:39 PM

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I would go for the 1 studio option. I'm not sure what you would expect to shovel out in 3 months on the other option, but it's unlikely to be good for your CV 😛

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2020, 4:52 PM

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^

vocal meadow Apr 14, 2020, 5:10 PM

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Wouldn’t count on free work leading to anything. Some places go through interns left and right, relying on them

nova tartan Apr 14, 2020, 8:23 PM

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Our developer interns aren't really useful until about 2 months into the job, we do 4 month terms in coordination with universities.
It takes a long time to learn the ins and outs of our systems and terminology.
So if you are doing a three month internship you are probably only truly productive for a few weeks.
That said, I do recommend trying to work for multiple companies so you can experience different environments

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:30 PM

#

@keen light if I were to suggest one thing.... learn how to break things down into there most basic parts.. then learn the tools needed to put them together.. or create more building blocks

#

Tech artists will be called on to do a massive range of tasks

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:32 PM

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thats great to know!

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:33 PM

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and never feel bad that you don't get to learn something to an amazing level

#

you will be swapping tasks more then anyone else in the industry

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:33 PM

#

I want to be more of a 'generalist' than a specialist anyway

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:33 PM

#

there is a big difference between generalist and tech artist

#

generalists "use" existing tools... and hope that it works for them

#

a tech artist will break down what each tool is useful for

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:34 PM

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then I don't know quite the right word...

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:34 PM

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and use parts as needed

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

i'm the opposite of that

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:34 PM

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and create systems and pipelines to make use of them

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

in fact, it can be detrimental how much i want to reinvent the wheel

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

that's a very common issue for ppl in this field

#

learn to turn it off

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

ill try 🙂

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

being a perfectionist is only useful if your being paid for that

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

so true

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

simply put.. people will see the end result and judge it on that

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

how do i get paid for being a perfectionist lol

#

easier than trying to turn it off

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:36 PM

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like.. no point modeling something when the pixels will be less then 1

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you wont @keen light

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

😢

#

wait...

#

you mean....

#

life isn't fair?

#

whHHHATTTt

#

sigh

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:37 PM

#

I know 😦

#

once I stopped trying to be perfect in things I could not control.. I actually got a lot better

#

one of my personal blocks was "normal maps"

#

I always wanted to hide the seams...

#

and all that

#

eventually.. I stopped caring

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

that would drive me crazy

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

and you know what.. noone even noticed!

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

any advice specifically about portfolios/resumes (I know they aren't exactly the same, but...)

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

oh gawd...

#

ok.. first thing is...

#

your portfolio is going to SUCK so much if your trying to do it solo

#

no matter how good you think you are

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:39 PM

#

oof

#

good i think i are not

bronze dew Apr 14, 2020, 11:39 PM

#

all these amazing ones you see.. are because they worked with other people

#

and learned tricks on how to do things so much faster

#

doing it solo is worst use of your time ever

keen light Apr 14, 2020, 11:40 PM

#

would it be too much to ask for you to help me?

#

nothing close to full time, just ocassioinally

#

cause i have no direction