career-chat

[vernal wolf]

it has nothing to do with codebase makeup

[tidal moth]

@merry sequoia good code is a rare and beautiful thing

[vocal meadow]

Armmah a good programmer is constantly profiling and timing things and avoids such generalizations

[blazing talon]

You are talking premature optimization

what does it have to do with anything?

Are you saying ALL optimization is premature?

@vocal meadow well yeah, and sky is blue

[vernal wolf]

Trying to pigeonhole all projects into 50% one thing 50% another is premature

[merry sequoia]

If you mean blueprint legibility I’m finding that is true the longer I’m exposed to this side of the industry @tidal moth lol

[blazing talon]

I asked a clear question, how much is good BP to C++ ratio

[vernal wolf]

I've shipped titles that are 10% blueprint and 90% blueprint and they both run at target framerate

so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vocal meadow]

To just assume blueprint is the root problem everywhere and act like you get a magical 50 percent boost will get you into more trouble than it’s worth

[blazing talon]

Its not only about optimization by the way

BPs can be as fast as C++ code

C++ >= BP

[tidal moth]

@merry sequoia technical debt is a very VERY real concept, and it is true for almost all industries. there's an article I always post about it: https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

[gentle chasm]

How much of the codebase should be clean C++ and how much blueprints, just a rough parts. I am talking about a serious complex game here, where each milisecond of runtime matters.
50 - 50 ?
@blazing talon
proportions depends on a team and project, and what you're able to produce on time
if you can't have enough programmers to script everything, then go heavy on blueprints

if you there's a tons of custom and small scripts - go blueprints

[vocal meadow]

Yeah I’m just saying it’s stupid to suggest blueprints can’t keep 16ms

[vernal wolf]

You can easily ship a VR title using 95% blueprints at under 8ms

[merry sequoia]

Oh I understood technical debt to be inefficient coding more than legibility but I suppose both make sense

Bookmarked for reading

[gentle chasm]

if you're able to make systems for that stuff and remove likely 50 blueprints with one nice system (inventory items or weapons defined as data table instead of blueprints) - awesome

[tacit siren]

and blueprints can run as fast as c++ as long as you got the ratio of code/BP for what you're doing just right

[blazing talon]

@vocal meadow well I never said that, it was assumed from my words

[tacit siren]

sometimes its writing a 2000 line base class in c++

[blazing talon]

where each milisecond of runtime matters.

[vernal wolf]

like a vr title?

:p

[tacit siren]

sometimes its just writing 2 helper functions to do heavy math

[blazing talon]

@tacit siren exactly what I said above 🙂

I just see blueprints as more of exposing tooling for high level manipulations as an abstraction

[tacit siren]

one thing i would never do in BP is networking

[vocal meadow]

Lemme rephrase then: it’s not smart to say you can even gather a percent of what is c++ and what is blueprint. I mean how is that answered?

[tacit siren]

it can be done but ugh

[vernal wolf]

Considering the vast majority of BP functions are 1:1 c++ functions

I wouldn't say they're that much of a higher level

[blazing talon]

@vocal meadow it can be interpreted many ways - how much time you spent on implementing each, or how much of your codebase is of each

[west sonnet]

They’re just pretty looking cpp

[blazing talon]

like compiled assembly lines

[vocal meadow]

Which were you asking then

[blazing talon]

@tacit siren I do not believe you can write clean and efficient code for complex game with majority BP

[gentle chasm]

blueprints can easily kill performance if putting to much stuff on tick, but there are worse thing there generally

• blueprint people don't understanding coding entirely - which is often a fault of programmers moving everything to code instead of educating people, so blueprints in given team are always doomed to be crap
• huge graphs costs performance, not executing blueprint functions per se
• memory issues... if designers don't know about soft references and cost of casting to blueprint class

[blazing talon]

it would imply that you have existing functionality and API for everything your game needs specifically, which would imply that it has been written by someone on C++

[vernal wolf]

I do not believe you can write clean and efficient code for a complex game with majority any language

[gentle chasm]

Fortnite is useful of blueprints, they even have many anim blueprints per character, i.e. different for pouch, backpack, etc 😛

[blazing talon]

@gentle chasm On the other hand you can write code that performs worse in C++ than in BP if you dont understand what you are doing

[vocal meadow]

So bp is code now?

[gentle chasm]

yes, but C++ requires some minimum from you, otherwise it won't compile 😄

[blazing talon]

@vocal meadow LOL

thats exactly what this discussion started from

[vocal meadow]

Yeah lol I’m just confused where it’s gone

[vernal wolf]

This circling back is why this kills interviews

[blazing talon]

you can get offended by anything man

[vernal wolf]

but not everyone needs to be interviewed so

[tacit siren]

i do some stuff in BP, because its just faster and/or more convenient

[gentle chasm]

the failure of Epic here they say "blueprints it's not programming" too often and docs don't explain shit, it's about "how to click into blueprints"

[blazing talon]

@vernal wolf I can use your own logic and say if you are offended by one statemtn and do not try to understand what I meant by that one sentence than its a big red flag for me

[vernal wolf]

and if you do that you'll probably also tank an interview

[tacit siren]

i also find that claim that BPs are always faster way to prototype to be very wrong

[vocal meadow]

Not offended just trying to illustrate it for you what your saying

[blazing talon]

@vocal meadow wasnt referring to you

[vernal wolf]

I'm not offended at all, I'm just stating that that opinion when expressed will hinder your career in #career-chat

I'm full of opinions I don't dare to express for the sake of my career

[west sonnet]

The more you gate keep, the less likely you’ll build a good network. Lack of adaptability is a turn off for many employers 😉

[blazing talon]

What I was trying to say is that a complex game in my experience is like a hhuge well oiled machine where each tick works in a meaningful way and its impossible to achieve with BPs only. But as I said I see utility in BPs as ahigh level abstraction.

[tidal moth]

I mean in either case there's no reason to gatekeep. keep your shit organized, employ good guidelines and everyone on the project team can be happy

[blazing talon]

well yeah true, genuinly thanks for that advice than @vernal wolf

[vernal wolf]

I would love to work on a complex game that is a huge well oiled machine

[vocal meadow]

Or a meatgrinder

[flat gazelle]

Complex games are made from ducttape

and good intentions

[west sonnet]

They really are

[gentle chasm]

it can be well-oiled machine, if you have general plan for it, willing of management to spent a lot of man-months of tools and systems

[blazing talon]

Are we talking about fallout 76?

[vernal wolf]

I'm talking literally any game dev project that involves a number of people

[tidal moth]

any big game

[west sonnet]

An illusion of functionality

[flat gazelle]

All big games I've worked on have been hacks on a hackbase

[vernal wolf]

If there is a game project that has 50+ people working on it and there are zero fires

I want on it

[flat gazelle]

I make the fires 😦

[vocal meadow]

Lol

[west sonnet]

I add fuel to them😜

[blazing talon]

lol

[gentle chasm]

there can be fire on 2-person team 😛

[vernal wolf]

If there are zero fires

Your fire monitoring is broken

[blazing talon]

@gentle chasm or in 1-person team

[gentle chasm]

but such statement bring us nowhere in discussion, guys...

and I guess ArmmaH was asking how to approach things so fires would be less likely 😉

[west sonnet]

That is an interesting statement though. Your game is so broken that you think it’s perfect

[tidal moth]

lol

[honest cipher]

this is also why unit testing is important

[vernal wolf]

Having a hard rigid structure of the make up of your codebase is a fire or will result in fire

[vocal meadow]

One must see the fire, feel the heat, fan the flames

[honest cipher]

if you have decent automated testing, you can see when your hacks backfire and break stuff

which is all the time

[tidal moth]

One must see the fire, feel the heat, fan the flames
BECOME THE FIRE

[blazing talon]

There is a relavant quote from a turing award winner Hoare

[vernal wolf]

Which is exactly why you shouldn't have a rigid codebase structure of x% thing

[blazing talon]

I never suggested I do?

[vernal wolf]

Then why ask about it

[tidal moth]

lol imagine the conversation. "hey I need to create a new BP class" "you can't, that would put our BP percentage to 51% so we'll have to write it in cpp"

[blazing talon]

because a statement like less than 20% of code for complex game should be BP is a valid answer and not rigid at all

it can be 0% or 5% or 19%

[vernal wolf]

how bout less than 100%

or

even

100%

because that is also valid

[vocal meadow]

Lol

[vernal wolf]

20% sounds like a structure limitation to me

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[gentle chasm]

what is hard rigid structure?

• like in our current company we know that certain systems will be refactored into proper C++ systems and some point
• we know that some features shouldn't be ever done in blueprints - because we would need to rewrite from scratch, so designers wait for some features
• obviously there's a lot stuff done a bad way by designers, some of them will be deleted, refactored, some abandoned to be a crap forever

[vocal meadow]

Still think it’s fruitless to even assign a percent to here. Makes no sense

[gentle chasm]

any percentages makes no sense to me

[tidal moth]

same

[flat gazelle]

*should be refactored

[tidal moth]

Moth I thought you were a designer too?

[blazing talon]

LOL I did not suggest putting a ban on BPs when it exceeds percentile

[gentle chasm]

so Allar's 20% makes zero sense too 😉

[vernal wolf]

not my 20%

my point is that any percent doesn't matter

[vocal meadow]

don't judge

[gentle chasm]

@tidal moth I'm always designer, only with time more a programmer

[vernal wolf]

that is @blazing talon's 20%

[gentle chasm]

ah, ok 😄

[vocal meadow]

use blueprints to do blueprint things

[tidal moth]

so there's two of us 😅

[blazing talon]

and my 20% was an example of a valid answer to my question

[gentle chasm]

but what's the blueprint thing? that's the question 😄

[vernal wolf]

and 100% is not a valid answer?

[vocal meadow]

well moth

as a programmer

this is up to you

its part of the job

there isn't an authority on this stuff

[flat gazelle]

I thought you weren't a programmer if you did blueprint things...

That's where all this started

[blazing talon]

I never said that?

[vernal wolf]

So then you'd agree it is valid to write a complex game with 100% bp

[blazing talon]

I said BP isnt coding imo

[vernal wolf]

But that game would have zero code

[blazing talon]

if it works for you sure

go ahead

[flat gazelle]

But I do not consider blueprint to be coding, altho it is my personal opinion
@blazing talon Fair enough

[blazing talon]

it wouldnt have zero code

[vernal wolf]

but bp is not code

[blazing talon]

I said BP isnt coding imo

[vernal wolf]

and it is 100% bp

I don't understand

[blazing talon]

Yhea guys I remember what I said

[gentle chasm]

or up to "is this guy gonna handle this in blueprint well? if not, if I have time to do in code instead?"
it's should more like this nice infographic/mind-map to help make a decision EVERY time

[vocal meadow]

take a moment to collect yourself armmah, it's fine

[west sonnet]

It’s all pointlessly arbitrary and shouldn’t be gripe is what everyone is saying

[flat gazelle]

Oooh! Marketing opportunity. 100% codefree games! You can't have bugs in the code if there's no code.

[blazing talon]

it has C++ running under the hood, the thhing is you sticking to blocks together isnt coding, if you write the blocks yourself than stick them together it can be coding

[tidal moth]

lmao

[blazing talon]

or programming

[vernal wolf]

so I can ship a project with 100% bp

[blazing talon]

its your project, do what you want lol

[vernal wolf]

and it uses code because I use an engine

but not because of the bp

[gentle chasm]

it has C++ running under the hood, the thhing is you sticking to blocks together isnt coding, if you write the blocks yourself than stick them together it can be coding
@blazing talon
making instructions is always coding, why to make a difference?

[vernal wolf]

In that case my C++ compiles down to byte code so my project actually has zero c++ and 100% bytecode

[flat gazelle]

So if you use a compiler, doesn't that convert what you have written to something else?

Hehe

that

so c++ isn't code

Logicd!

[west sonnet]

Your sticking blocks of text together 😜

[blazing talon]

@vocal meadow admittedly I dont have as much experience in UE4, and this is not a topic I should be arguing about with professional UE4 devs lol.
My background is C++ C# and Unity for gamedev

[gentle chasm]

is C++ isn't coding because it's not direct instructions to CPU?

assembler is only the true coding then 😛

[blazing talon]

@vernal wolf thats semantics - define code

[flat gazelle]

That's what I said!

[tidal moth]

again you can do code on electronic circuit boards

[vernal wolf]

executable instructions

aka blueprint

[blazing talon]

iif its only assembly, than yes, your statement is valid. For me code is general purpose language programming

[west sonnet]

Glad is always right

[vernal wolf]

and anything else that has executable instructions

[blazing talon]

C++, C#, Java

[tidal moth]

so how is Java or C# different than blueprints?

all 3 run on VMs

all 3 pass instructions

[gentle chasm]

R language is language for processing statistics/data, but still programming

[blazing talon]

Its general purpose programming language

[tidal moth]

and BP isn't?

[gentle chasm]

no, it's not

if R language has less users than blueprints, what's then? 😛

[tidal moth]

if you separated BP from UE4 could you not use it for general purpose programming?

[vernal wolf]

There are sooooo many app specific domain languages that are considered programming

unless you disagree with that too

[blazing talon]

@gentle chasm I was talking about C# and Java not R

[flat gazelle]

Hey! I'm from the future. This discussion is going to end in" Coding is only coding if you type it".

[gentle chasm]

still, R isn't a "general purpose language", still coding 😄

[tidal moth]

I type to search for the function nodes I need in BP! 😅

[blazing talon]

@vernal wolf they are usually called scripting

[vocal meadow]

Its good to have an open mind armmah. believe the thing people are responding most to here is you disqualifying blueprints

[tacit siren]

you do have to do some typing in BP too 😄

[blazing talon]

I never did disqualfy BPs though?

[vernal wolf]

scripting implies interpreted over compiled, not whether it is code

[blazing talon]

The only time I worked with UE4 I wrote BP library that is still being used

I said I see its utility

[vernal wolf]

and there are many app specific programming languages that aren't scripting

[blazing talon]

why does everyone wave off that statement?

[west sonnet]

Stick with sexy letters, that’s the only qualifier

[flat gazelle]

so my python coding is no longer coding :*(

[vernal wolf]

You straight up disqualified BP as code

[blazing talon]

that would be saying "C++ is the only way to program BP is bullshit"

which I did not say in any way or form

[gentle chasm]

because many here used BP for more than "one time I wrote library, so it's not coding" 😄

[tacit siren]

my 5 cents on the matter: if BP wasn't coding i would not be nearly as annoyed with the design team when they do something unspeakable

[blazing talon]

Yeah I admit I might not know full utility of Bps

[west sonnet]

[blazing talon]

What I will say though is I am not close minded and I do not take any matter personal or religiously defend something. If you tell me a pragmatic reason why something is useful I would only askk whats the catch and the tradeoff

[vernal wolf]

This is literally every discussion about "bp is not code it is a tool" and thus why it is inadvisable to state such

[tidal moth]

where's that video you always post Allar

[flat gazelle]

I belive there's a video stating this...

Ha

[vernal wolf]

its on the internet somewhere

[blazing talon]

Yeah okay folks, since more than one professional UE dev tells me BP coding is coding I will conceded untill I am better educated on the matter

[vernal wolf]

that video only serves as a confirmation of people who already believe

[blazing talon]

and have fully thogut out argument I can defend with facts and logic

[vernal wolf]

Great, one less vector for this fight, which is my only goal

See yall next week when someone else says BP is not code

[gentle chasm]

it's coding, just less "capable" than C++ in many ways
and Python would be a worse language for games than blueprints

[tidal moth]

you should receive your complimentary "I got dragged" t shirt in the mail any day now

[gentle chasm]

and C# could give worse effects if you would handle it to artist 😛

[flat gazelle]

BP IS JUST A DESIGN TOY FOR PROTOTYPES

[vocal meadow]

lol

[flat gazelle]

fightme

[west sonnet]

To be fair, Allar did warn about triggering people 😜

[vocal meadow]

blueprint code is not c++ code. this is my line

[gentle chasm]

Visual Studio is a toy, use Vim 😛

[tidal moth]

blueprint code is not c++ code
how dare you

[vocal meadow]

lol

[flat gazelle]

Y IS UP

[tidal moth]

NO

[vocal meadow]

take it back glad!

[flat gazelle]

Never

Can't take back the truth

[blazing talon]

lol

[west sonnet]

Burn the witch!

[vernal wolf]

I will religiously defined Z is up

[vocal meadow]

[vernal wolf]

and that everyone else is wrong

[blazing talon]

Right-hand cortesian coordinate system for the win

[vernal wolf]

this is why I don't work in graphics

[gentle chasm]

Z always up, Y-up is not an art

[vocal meadow]

allar, it is up

that is why

[west sonnet]

Inverse z and drop it

[vernal wolf]

But I will also defend that

Z is screen space depth

which contradicts Z is up

so

[flat gazelle]

Yes!

[blazing talon]

Up is relative

[vernal wolf]

more reason I don't work in either graphics or physics

[flat gazelle]

No, it's Y

[vocal meadow]

Up from map space is Away from center of flat world right?

just like camera

[vernal wolf]

in Unreal Z is always up because gravity is hardcoded

so

practical knowledge vs theoretical

[tidal moth]

I mean Y-up is bad enough, but then there are people for whom -Y is up

[west sonnet]

Nooo

[flat gazelle]

(This is my favorite non argument)

[gentle chasm]

Z-up is great because it's intuitive for people thinking about in-world coords which is more people than rendering-thinking people 😛

[vernal wolf]

The day gravity is fully decoupled from -Z is the day I'll make an engine plugin that swaps out the gizmo axes

[gentle chasm]

😄

[vocal meadow]

heresy

[flat gazelle]

Z is only up in top down games, so it aligns with Z depth!

[vernal wolf]

It'll be my equivalent of Unity's "Lightning needs to be rebuilt" plugin

[vocal meadow]

lets define up first

[blazing talon]

^

[vernal wolf]

Z

[blazing talon]

Define Space you are talking about/in

[vocal meadow]

i'm good with this allar

this is what i run with too

[gentle chasm]

so... would be blueprint coding if it would use Y-up? 🧐

[vocal meadow]

camera depth = up. this isn't a stretch

[vernal wolf]

it would be coding, it would be wrong

[vocal meadow]

incorrect code is still code

[vernal wolf]

Tick(float DeltaTime) { for (AActor* a : GetAllActorsOfClass(AActor::StaticClass)) { a->Destroy(); }}

yolo

[mystic storm]

single letter variables 🤢

[vernal wolf]

if that is what you think is most wrong with that code

[blazing talon]

okay, lets talk about tabs vs spaces now

[mystic storm]

i like my variables long and with tons of typos

😋

[vernal wolf]

lets talk about project style guides

and linting

[tidal moth]

all my variable names double as MD5 checksums

[west sonnet]

So many great career advices 😜

[vernal wolf]

Linting is good for your career

I'd argue conforming to a style guide is more important than do you use C++ or BP

:p

[vocal meadow]

allar you meant for (AActor*const&a : there right?

[vernal wolf]

no, fuck your ram

[vocal meadow]

lol

[blazing talon]

lol

[vernal wolf]

if you're deleting every actor on tick

you're going to have more pressing problems than memory overhead of that copy

[vocal meadow]

especially if that function returns a reference

[vernal wolf]

well it is tick, but an actor destroying itself in its own tick probably isn't good either

[gentle chasm]

single letter variables? take a look at this hipster_lower_case style of Godot

https://github.com/godotengine/godot/tree/master/servers

how Epic could support that? 😛

[west sonnet]

More importantly

[blazing talon]

you mean snake case?

[vernal wolf]

may I point you to Principle 0.1

http://ue4.style/#0.1

[west sonnet]

Which is up in Godot?

[vernal wolf]

W

[vocal meadow]

WUP

[mystic storm]

Weast

[vernal wolf]

W looks like two downward arrows

you know what they say

[gentle chasm]

snake_case_should_die

[vernal wolf]

two downward arrows means up

[vocal meadow]

its true

cancellation of things

[vernal wolf]

also using ^ as a axis is too annoying to type

[blazing talon]

@gentle chasm tell that to STL writers

[vocal meadow]

shift plus numbers is a stretch yeah

[vernal wolf]

In my perfect world the axes are <, >, and ^

wait

thats not right

GET IT NOT RIGHT

[vocal meadow]

lol

[vernal wolf]

, ., and ^

there we go

[vocal meadow]

aye front on

[vernal wolf]

in any case my point is http://ue4.style/#0.1

[gentle chasm]

@blazing talon yeah, I'm happy Epic didn't follow some "traditions" 😉

[vernal wolf]

Epic doesn't use Hungarian notation

except for bools

so that is nice

[vocal meadow]

theres another thing

[west sonnet]

Up is up, down is down, left is right, and puppies are adorable.

[vernal wolf]

I disagree

puppies are awful

leaves

[vocal meadow]

the python wrapper strips the b

[west sonnet]

Fuck you /j

[vocal meadow]

lol

[blazing talon]

I mean... up is by definition relative, it shows difference (delta) not absolute direction

[vernal wolf]

Up is +Z dammit

wait

yeah +Z

[vocal meadow]

and puppies are adorable.

[blazing talon]

^

[vernal wolf]

well we don't work together so works for me

[vocal meadow]

says 0.1

[vernal wolf]

I can't write in fun easter eggs because then it will ruin the integrity of the guide

which is already like, failing integrity checks

but thats what pull requests are for amirite

[vocal meadow]

wouldn't say that. its a fine document. the more serious style guides take themselves the more fear they strike

[vernal wolf]

Boost your career

submit pull requests

to everything

Get your name in the UE4 credits as a fun fact

[vocal meadow]

Engine Contributor is a cool badge

[gentle chasm]

"get your name as fun fact" - fixed 😄

[vernal wolf]

ayyyy

that is next level

MY AMBITION

is to become a career fun fact

[honest cipher]

Engine Contributor is some top tier big d*ck energy if you have it on the forum

[gentle chasm]

I always dream to become engine contributor by submitting some trivial change in .ini
like changing value from 2.0 to 5.0

would be funny

[vernal wolf]

I think I prestiged my badge due to a one letter change pull request

[tidal moth]

lol

[gentle chasm]

one-letter typo fix to comment in .ini file would be unbeatable

[vernal wolf]

When I stream sometimes I'll give out free opportunities to get an engine contributor badge and very rarely does anyone actually go through with it D:

[tidal moth]

wouldn't a successfully resolved bug report also technically count as an engine contribution?

[vernal wolf]

That'd be wayyyy harder to track and manage though

Well, I suppose it could be automated

[tidal moth]

😮

in which case I guess I'd be an engine contributor too 😅

[vernal wolf]

but I would bet automating any interaction between bug reporting, solving, and epic's forums would be a total nightmare

[tidal moth]

haha yeah, and for like no gain anyway

[vernal wolf]

would be cool to have a bug report badge

I may or may not list my epic badges on my resume

[west sonnet]

I helped fix the submit bug button, where’s my badge 😜

[vernal wolf]

ayyyy

[tidal moth]

just attach a screenshot of your unreal forums user profile

[vernal wolf]

.... I do

It is really silly but it actually has more weight than you would think

[west sonnet]

Does it include your business card?

[tidal moth]

I mean I can kind of get it for something lik engine contributor

[vernal wolf]

I rarely give my business card to someone I'm actively interviewing with lol

[vocal meadow]

lol

how come?

[tidal moth]

and perhaps some people are swayed by the size of your post count too

[west sonnet]

But that’s the ultimate Allar move

[vernal wolf]

Because my business card gives the wrong impression if given during an interview

They get it after if they hire me

[vocal meadow]

its a reward

[vernal wolf]

exactly

[west sonnet]

A sheet a metal with your name and only your name

[vernal wolf]

It isn't like they don't have my contact info

GDC cancelling saved me sooo much money in business card related costs

[vocal meadow]

want to ask how you materialize such thing but perhaps its best to not mention such magic

[vernal wolf]

It is easy, I outsource to a buddy :p

He does all the hard work and I pay him for it

[vocal meadow]

Thats better than metalcardz.buy

[vernal wolf]

We have a metal plant in China that is happy to source us

And do custom tooling

You can find all kinds of crazy things on alibaba? aliexpress? one of those

If you don't mind outsourcing your marketing material it can be hella cheap

[west sonnet]

I would like to present you... the business cube

[hybrid phoenix]

Hey guys, as some of you may know I recently stopped working on my own games professionally. For the first time since I've started gamedev six years ago I'd like to get a proper full-time job as a technical artist. I'm now very much wondering what my CV should look like, as I've never really looked for full-time stuff before; I've just done contract work and indie-stuff in the past

Any input with regards to resources, advice or experiences is appreciated, especially coming from people experienced with tech-art roles and/or hiring 🙂

(Or if anyone here knows of any positions they think would suit me, that's of course also very welcome)

[west sonnet]

post your portfolio

[hybrid phoenix]

Current portfolio is scattered and (mostly) outdated, so I'm working on reworking it, but here's my artstation: https://www.artstation.com/victorgoossens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olgidvGskrE&list=PLW-2x18s1XQXwEL6lAzl10GEiRkbulK8Z

There's also this which shows more technical stuff

I'd like to integrate all of those projects into the Artstation page

[merry sequoia]

Thats a good question I suppose I have. What should I gather my portfolio in? As a 3D artist Artstation was sort of an easy decision but now that I am trying to transition to the technical side I am not sure

[hybrid phoenix]

I personally suspect Artstation is still a good place, as it's a system people are familiar with

It's also been perfectly adequate for me to show of more technical stuff in the past, so I'm not too worried about that

Just a little concerned people may go "Oh it's on artstation so it's just pretty stuff, but not technical"

[tidal moth]

yeah tbh the way it's laid out is very nice, but I'm not sure how viewable it is e.g. on mobile

[west sonnet]

ArtStation is mobile friendly

[tidal moth]

ah fair enough

[west sonnet]

App

Mobile website

Loading is nice

[pastel estuary]

if you look at a lot of the "killer portfolio or portfolio killer" videos on yt/gdc almost all of em do suggest artstation over personal website

especially the bigger companies, because their recruiters cant be arsed to learn how the website works or where to find stuff

[hybrid phoenix]

My reasoning is just that everyone's familiar with it and it works well enough, even for more technical stuff

[pastel estuary]

so unless you grab them with the first thing they see, they might nope and go to the next person

[hybrid phoenix]

That said, I'm less concerned about where my portfolio's at, and more about whether it's any good and how to organize it... Let alone my CV

[tidal moth]

I mean it seems to be fine on different platforms plus there's an app, so I think artstation seems like a sensible choice at this point

[west sonnet]

you got a few seconds to grab their attention, so it's a good platform

[pastel estuary]

pickings wise, pick the top 3-4 things you like, remove anything you dont like, or is outdated/easily replicated by current standards

[tidal moth]

I can't say whether the content is good or not since I'm not an artist, but pretty much all of the entries have me intrigued

but yes what Luos said

[hybrid phoenix]

From a tech-art perspective I find that pretty difficult, though, because it's a broad job description :/

I've got at least eight things I think are worth showing

[tidal moth]

well we had the discussion earlier

[hybrid phoenix]

Just really don't know what to prioritize

[tidal moth]

but basically, if there's an area you like to focus on, go for it. shaders, pipeline/workflow optimizations, tools for ease of use/ease of placement

[pastel estuary]

to me, and saying this as a friend, unless that water has something really unique going on, a simple waters edge effect is not that interesting.
The wireframe glowthing and afk-scene are the same, somewhat generic for the average tech-person

[hybrid phoenix]

Definitely agree on the AFK-scene

[pastel estuary]

unless you found a way to do it cheaper (performance wise) than anyone else.

[hybrid phoenix]

The water's opaque and just very nice-looking so I'm personally just a bit in love with it

[tidal moth]

@pastel estuary out of curiosity which would you say is the best piece of what you see?

[hybrid phoenix]

Wireframe... Yeah, it's not astounding

The water's opaque and just very nice-looking so I'm personally just a bit in love with it
Not sure if this is good enough though

[pastel estuary]

@tidal moth hmm, frankly, with just images nothing stands out besides the afk, and thats a lighting test, not a performance test.

[tidal moth]

I see

[pastel estuary]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5ZgfczH86o

this image on the youtube page for the wind shader is way more inviting

[hybrid phoenix]

Yeah, I need to add the realistic stuff to the wind-shader page. Didn't test it with realistic assets yet when I did that

[pastel estuary]

i'd almost use a gif for it, same for the custom foliage system

really sell it

amaze em in 7 seconds

[hybrid phoenix]

Does Artstation do gifs?

Not for thumbnails anyway, right?

[pastel estuary]

i think so, not sure.

[ashen lynx]

Disregarding if piece is good or not, never make it sound like it is not. Those comments belong here, on the forum, but not on portfolio.

[tidal moth]

gif for thumbnails would be extremely annoying

[pastel estuary]

^

[hybrid phoenix]

Heck, the clustering tool isn't even on the Artstation. That's one of the big ones that needs to make it onto there

[pastel estuary]

back in ye olde day if you made a website showcasing your unreal/ut maps, just add a wireframe, and a lighting pass image, and they all thought you'd know your shit XD

the 800x600 resolution days

oh, and one last one. also remove any image that does not sell your content in a good way

[hybrid phoenix]

Any recommendations for CV?

Or does my CV not particularly matter

[pastel estuary]

iunno, I personally have yet to use a portfolio, never needed my cv either

though, id cherrypick the last few good jobs with an interesting thing you did, and call it a day

inbe4:
"2019-2020, made AI foliage spawner, tuesday"

[tidal moth]

having a CV for talking points might be relevant

if you achieved something cool

at least from a design persepective it's one of those things I love to hear about

like what did you do, what were the pitfalls etc.

[merry sequoia]

How did you manage jobs without portfolio O_o

[hybrid phoenix]

@pastel estuary Do you think I stand a chance of being hired at a PC/Console-dev company with my current stuff

@merry sequoia Reputation and network

[tidal moth]

Luos just releases random free vfx packs that speak for themselves 😄

[hybrid phoenix]

Most freelance jobs I get care more about what I've got to say during initial calls than about my portfolio, honestly

Just absolutely clueless when it comes to proper job-hunting like I'm getting into now

[merry sequoia]

Same. Hence my earlier convo. Trying to visualize a good path towards studio work though and get out of the vendor art cycle

[pastel estuary]

@hybrid phoenix I know you have skills, just need to showcase em more.

[hybrid phoenix]

I just really don't have a clue how to do that 😛

I manage to get contract work because people hear I know what I'm talking about in conversation, but if I need to somehow convey that through images of my work.... Wellp

[pastel estuary]

id watch some of the portfolio killer vids for ideas.

even has wyeth on the board, and he is quite the tech artst

[tidal moth]

might be worth to get familiar with houdini

[hybrid phoenix]

You're talking about that GDC panel, right?

[pastel estuary]

yuz

[hybrid phoenix]

And yeah, Houdini's been on my list... Just never really had the motivation to actually sit down and get past that steep learning curve

[pastel estuary]

with procedural becoming more and more important, its good time spend

[tidal moth]

maybe if you find out there's a tool you can make with it the inspiration will hit 😉

[bronze dew]

Houdini is both the most amazing and horrible thing at the same time

[pastel estuary]

as I said in stream last night (about *houdini), its like meeting your significant other, most pretty, kind, amazing person.. but oooooooh boy the baggage.

[bronze dew]

If your familiar with full node based stuff.. it makes it easy to start with... then goes to hell once you try and mix things up a bit more

Sooo much baggage!!!

But worth it for any tech artist

[honest cipher]

@hybrid phoenix houdini is on crazy demand

its also the single hardest program in all CG

but if you have mixed art/programming skills, you can do incredibly cool shit with its procedural tools

ive used it myself on a basic-ish level for:
vertex-animated magical fx created from particle syms + trickery
optimization tools to merge meshes and remove faces that cant be seen
terrain systems
automating low-poly + uv unwrap + bakes
procedural level design stuff

oh, and weight-painting character models to ue4 skeleton

[hybrid phoenix]

Well anyway

I'll just go cry in a corner now and start reworking my portfolio again come monday 🙃

[honest cipher]

if you dont have one, make a linkedin

[hybrid phoenix]

@pastel estuary Mind if I message you for feedback/help?

I've got one

Just really don't know what to do with it

https://www.linkedin.com/in/victor-d-goossens/

[tidal moth]

put your work experience in

[hybrid phoenix]

I even have a recommendation on there 😛

[pastel estuary]

@hybrid phoenix if I am around/not busy sure.
But do note, I am far from a good tech-artists, and not a master of quality either hehe. most knowledge I gained from those videos and reading a lot of portfolio-related convos here and elsewhere :p

[hybrid phoenix]

More eyes is always more better

Well

Usually

I'm panicky enough about this to want as much feedback as I can get

[tidal moth]

why panicky?

[hybrid phoenix]

Because I just feel incredibly lost in what I'm doing, but I really would like to just get a bloody job and start building up my life a bit again 😛

And uh

Well that^

[tidal moth]

I see

[hybrid phoenix]

I'm afraid of messing it up

And I really don't want to mess it up and be inutter uncertainty about my future for another few months

[tidal moth]

I'd say chill out. I don't think there's a reason to panic. tech art is in heavy demand

[merry sequoia]

gotta use that motivation to keep your focus

[winged axle]

houdini is not all that hard when you get used to it

[hybrid phoenix]

See the pragmatic part of me is like "It'll be fine, I'm competent and specialized in an in-demand niche"

[winged axle]

if you struggle with the math there are always places you can go like brilliant.org to learn the math

[merry sequoia]

Whats learning another program when you already need 4+ to do your daily work 😛

[hybrid phoenix]

But the not-so-pragmatic part is dying a bit

[tidal moth]

if it's some kind of imposter syndrome, I think that's something that comes with the territory

[hybrid phoenix]

It's definitely partially imposter

Because I'm just like "I've got no clue if what I've been doing so far is up-to-par and sufficient for getting the jobs I want"

[tidal moth]

you gotta look past that my dude. remember that you did actually achieve those things and made things happen

[pastel estuary]

a friend recently told me that imposter syndrome is basically gaslighting yourself :p

[hybrid phoenix]

Pretty accurate

And like all good manipulation, it's very hard to get over

[pastel estuary]

what helps me a lot is daily affirmations and meditation.

[winged axle]

or a personal drill instructor

[pastel estuary]

and I am far from a spiritual person, but for me it does wonders

[tidal moth]

I try to do my part and compliment people at work when they do a good job

[merry sequoia]

I like to take note of how many pros I see needing to google stuff

it helps.

[tidal moth]

because I know how quickly you can lose morale

[pastel estuary]

^

[winged axle]

@merry sequoia lmao right? reminds you we are all near the same point in such a rapidly growing industry

[merry sequoia]

It really does help to see people I know are miles ahead of me hit teh ole professor google for reference

[hybrid phoenix]

The thing I always tell newbies trying to get started and asking for advice is to learn how to google effectively

[tidal moth]

everyone uses google

[hybrid phoenix]

Single-most important resource as a tech-guy

[winged axle]

google is a required skillset

[tidal moth]

so many people use stuff like stack overflow as well

[hybrid phoenix]

I use stack overflow if Google sends me there 😛

[winged axle]

I think another pretty universal skill that helps tons, is knowing advanced math. It helps in everything from shaders, specialFX, programming (obviously), Animation, financing/budgeting, pipeline workflow, ect

[flat gazelle]

Houdini is easier than ever to get into.

The portfolio and CV is what gets you attention. A cover letter shows you have actually read the ad.

That's what get the interview. After that, it's just showing that you're not a dickhead and a nice person to be around.

You seem to know your shit, it'll be fine 🙂

[vocal meadow]

Houdini 👍

[west sonnet]

Houdini 👍

[pastel estuary]

David Copperfield 👍

[vocal meadow]

[tidal moth]

did you just create that

[vocal meadow]

nah i think its from thinkprocedural server

[hybrid phoenix]

Thanks Glad 🙂

I mean, really, thanks everyone taking part in this convo, I'm glad we had it

If anyone's got any good starting points for Houdini (good tutorials for instance, preferably free, preferably text) I'm all ears

And other than that I suppose I'll just need to pick and polish my best work

[west sonnet]

https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/

https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/attributes-and-copy/

[hybrid phoenix]

Hm, there's more there than I recall there being. I'll have a look Monday

[west sonnet]

https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/introduction-to-vops/

[vocal meadow]

You'll love VEX Mr4Goosey if you like coding. Check out Attribute Wranglers and Group VEXpressions

[hybrid phoenix]

I really don't like her tutorials ^

[west sonnet]

so picky 😛

[hybrid phoenix]

I keep getting distracted by how intensely bored she sounds 👀

It's a bit too evidently scripted for my liking

[vocal meadow]

get over it? lol

[west sonnet]

https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/houdini-isnt-scary-part-1-basics/

[hybrid phoenix]

Yeah that's one option x3

But that's exactly why I'm asking for particularly good ones 😛

I think preference in presentation is allowed

Thanks HighTide 👌

Can you go ahead and tag me here? Makes it easier to find it again

[west sonnet]

Susie has alot of basics. So you're shooting yourself in the foot here

@hybrid phoenix boop

[hybrid phoenix]

Yeah, I know... I started with her tutorials, but it just... Really drained my enthusiasm 🙁

But anyway, thanks a bunch!

[west sonnet]

so many 😛

[hybrid phoenix]

Yup

[vocal meadow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SHZ70cKMwE it could be worse, much worse

[west sonnet]

houdini will consume your soul regardless

[vocal meadow]

let it run over you

[hybrid phoenix]

For sure

[flat gazelle]

Houdini in 5 minutes by Entagma. Made for people transitoning from other packages. Entagma are the best in the biz.

Not gamespecific though

[vernal wolf]

@hybrid phoenix are you looking to be a lead tech artist?

:p

I'm not saying you should or can but all I knows is https://careers.jobscore.com/careers/nexonamericainc/jobs/principal-lead-technical-artist-dHV4Pcdwyr6PBYaKirYR2p?ref=rss&sid=68

[hybrid phoenix]

@vernal wolf Don't think I get to be lead as a 20 year-old

😛

[brisk anchor]

Gotta aim higher !

[hybrid phoenix]

Also not widely proficient enough to be a lead. I'd need to be more all-round tech-artist than I am right now

[honest cipher]

there are also a few high quality tutorial series for houdini about procedural modelling

like scifi-stairs, scifi-panneling, and scifi-entire corridors

released not long ago

[ashen lynx]

Quite a lot of Houdini educational material seems to be disjointed and scattered. Most material is either too case-specific or fully generic. Middle ground seems absent. It is likely contributing to steep learning curve. But as with any other software, you won't be able to get good grasp of it, before you start using it for work routinely.

[merry sequoia]

Yeah I’m trying to narrow down projects I can use it for more often. I know the answer is a generic “so much!” But not having used it for more than a little particle work that is just a blank list essentially lol

[honest cipher]

the way i learned houdini was fairly simple

my initial goal is "i want to learn how to do procedural level tools, like stairs and the like"

so i then found tutorials that did similar stuff

did them

and then went to implement my own procedural stair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDDdditXhRE basically the first "actual" thing i made

important detail. There was no tutorial about how to make this sort of stair, the one that uses unreal meshes

there was a tutorial about a dumb stair fully parametric (including houdini-side modelling), and other tutorial about how to grab meshes from engine into your procedural stuff

so mixed 2

[merry sequoia]

Yeah I def need to pick up Houdini and stop relying on my art background to just make stuff quickly lol

[tidal moth]

yes how dare you be good at art

[merry sequoia]

Well I mean my stairs don’t modify themselves like that so objectively im behind on the stair game.

[tidal moth]

combine forces

make beautiful stairs that modify themselves

[merry sequoia]

My babies will be smart AND beautiful.

[tidal moth]

I was gonna write a comment about how you could make the mesh move in mysterious ways because it is ARTE but I don't think that would sit well with users

ahem, getting off topic

[unique umbra]

what does houdini cost for hobby work with Unreal to make a portfolio? Doing some dungeons inspired by diablo 1 and want them to be semi procedural.

[honest cipher]

270 a year if you want to use unreal

couse the free educational version cant connect to unreal

also for dungeons you dont want houdini, houdini cant create anything at runtime, its strictly editor-only

[flat gazelle]

^ That makes no sense. There was no mention of runtime. I can't think of a better tool to make semi procedural dungeons with.

[tidal moth]

yeah build chunks you can load in at runtime

[flat gazelle]

Yep. Anyway. Far enough off topic for one day

[honest cipher]

if its to build the dungeon chunks, thats something ive done myself. can confirm works great @tidal moth

[tidal moth]

I think Deadmon wanted to build that

anyway should we move this to... #lounge?

[patent mountain]

https://www.toptal.com/freelance/don-t-be-fooled-the-real-cost-of-employees-and-consultants

This was an enlightening read

[blazing talon]

Another good factor is that companies are ready to pay 2-5 times more per employee for security reasons (no code leak, etc).

[hybrid phoenix]

https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/houdini-isnt-scary-part-1-basics/
Looking at these now

Definitely the most well-presented and easy-to-follow tutorial for someone who's got no idea what they're doing I've come across so far

[marsh stream]

Hi guys, I've been thinking of getting on twitter. i've prob taken way too long to decide this. but I am. My name is Ricardo and i have had the name Cardoor have a long time, mainly from playing games. So there is some sentimental value in it.
I wanted to ask if it seems unprofessional to use ur 'in-game name/ gamertag ' as your '@ x y z' ? or on my game dev youtube channel? Might be a silly thing to worry about but i've been wondering.

[hybrid phoenix]

That really depends on your

What you've got to think about is whether you want to still be stuck using this name professionally in ten years

I've had many display-names before this one, but this is the first one where I don't see any problems for future me in having this name

[tidal moth]

I mostly distance myself from tags under professional circumstances, but at work we have loads of people preferring to be called by their tag/handle

[hybrid phoenix]

My tag's signficantly easier to find me by than my actual name

Because my actual name matches a high-profile pro-gamer

[vernal wolf]

If you're 100% about that freelance life

Marketing is marketing

There are many ways to get into game dev, self promotion is one of them

You can either work in advertising or be an influencer

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[marsh stream]

I see. Yeah definitely something to think about for me. Thanks for all your advice 👍 🙂

[flat gazelle]

I swapped from a bunch of random names to Partikel when I started freelancing.

[primal bramble]

@marsh stream It worked for Ninja...

[marsh stream]

@primal bramble when u say ninja u mean the fortnite player right? i guess i meant from a game developer's perspective as opposed to content creator's

[primal bramble]

Yeah, I meant him. Fair point, for sure. I think gamertag and real name aren't mutually exclusive.

[supple timber]

is freelancing worth it?

[tidal moth]

you have to actually know the engine before freelancing

[supple timber]

i mean as a path

[tidal moth]

freelancing is one of the hardest things to do

[supple timber]

i am currently studying to get in uni

[tidal moth]

since you have no safety net

you have to find stable work yourself

it requires a lot of self discipline and requires people to acknowledge the skills you have are valid

[supple timber]

would uni help?

[tidal moth]

depends entirely on your role

[supple timber]

i am a programmer

[tidal moth]

then yes

your degree will make a difference in getting hired

[west sonnet]

And if we’re talking about us uni😜

[supple timber]

?

[tidal moth]

programmer is by far the easiest path, it shouldn't be hard to find a stable job once you're done

I don't recommend freelancing though

at least, not in the beginning

[supple timber]

there are no big companies here

[tidal moth]

once you have experience it's a different ball game

well then get hired elsewhere

[supple timber]

or any company of any notable size

[tidal moth]

people will want to hire a junior before they will hire a freelancer without experience

[nova tartan]

Programmers tend to relocate to find work

because the pay difference is usually staggering

[supple timber]

i have checked that

for a company here its around 7-800$

/month

[nova tartan]

like a programmer can make 60k if they stay put
or 100k if they are willing to move
or 150k if they are willing to relocate to a high cost of living area

these numbers aren't exact but like

the pay difference usually encourages relocation

[supple timber]

so the average wage for a programmer here is around 10K/yr

[tidal moth]

you'll have to relocate almost certainly

I will say this is especially true for the games industry

[west sonnet]

As they said, cost of living is a factour.

[supple timber]

i would have to spend almost my entire wage on just basic living needs

i have calculated it

[tidal moth]

well yeah if you want to stay in your country then go ahead. but if you want the big bucks you'll need to go abroad

[wary kelp]

@nova tartan Where do you make 150k? x)

Are you talking about working in IT security?

[west sonnet]

That much might be enough to rent a closet in LA.

[tidal moth]

or a vacant lot

[nova tartan]

Depending on how well the company I'm dev lead for does I make that in winnipeg
but afaik it's pretty common in the biggest cities like new york and silicon valley

[wary kelp]

I feel like working in IT in the US though you would do nothing but work

[tidal moth]

depends how you define work

[nova tartan]

burnout/crunch/overtime is extremely common but you can control it

sometimes

I've been close to burnout a couple times

[wary kelp]

I mean, I live in Sweden. I am used to 6 weeks payed vacation and nine to five days

Really strong unions

[west sonnet]

Isn’t the point of working is to work?

[nova tartan]

Yeah I work a pretty well controlled 8-4 day for the last several years

but there were months where I would just work

in the early days

[wary kelp]

Of course, don't get me wrong. I just don't want to be like the fellas over at Rockstar games for example

Not rarely sleeping in the office because they feel like no reason to get home as they work so late

That's not a life

Sometimes during crunches sure, but

want a family too you know

I talked with a dude at Ubisoft who told me about family members of Rockstar employees protesting outside their offices as they rarely saw their family member. Like wtf that is crazy

[supple timber]

and that 10K/yr is a standard 40 hour week @tidal moth

[tidal moth]

@supple timber did you understand the point about relocation?

[supple timber]

yeah that i will be making more money if i move

[tidal moth]

so what's the problem

[supple timber]

you know its not that easy to move countries

[tidal moth]

idk man, I've done it a few times already

[mystic hull]

Wish I could move countries

[tidal moth]

for work, mind

[mystic hull]

it's easy in practice, just depends a lot on the responsibilities you have

[supple timber]

also yeah

i cant move

not enough money to actually move

[tidal moth]

but if you want to resign yourself to your country, nobody's stopping you

but if you can barely live for a salary then I'd recommend a different industry

companies will give you money to relocate

that's kind of the entire idea

[supple timber]

hmm ok

also its not just industry specific

most people here barely live paycheck-paycheck

[hybrid phoenix]

Had a call with a recruiter for the niche I'm in yesterday, one of her (very few) questions was relating to willingess to relocate

[supple timber]

just for the basic living costs

[hybrid phoenix]

Just goes to show how massively important relocation is in this industry

[tidal moth]

very few people are lucky or stubborn enough to not relocate

and even so they will at a bare minimum probably relocate once

[hybrid phoenix]

Personally I'm actually somewhat hoping I get to relocate

I'd like to properly live in a different part of the world, at least for a while

[supple timber]

i dont think that i could adjust in another country

[hybrid phoenix]

But I'm looking for my first non-freelance job, so ya know, that makes relocation a bit harder

[tidal moth]

then I recommend looking into a different industry

[supple timber]

wdym?

[hybrid phoenix]

Recruiter has faith in my ability to find a job with my current credentials, though

He means that if you don't want to move, the gamedev industry is a bad one to be part of

[tidal moth]

if you're not going to find a good job in the games industry in your country, and you don't want to relocate

[wary kelp]

@supple timber Where do you live?

[tidal moth]

then why would it be worth it to stay in games?

[supple timber]

i live in greece

i just love game development

there is not single way i am changing industry

[tidal moth]

and tbh this level of stubbornness seems ill advised for an industry that is so reliant on teamwork

[wary kelp]

Since you know Unity you could try coding some shitty mobile games and spam ads

[hybrid phoenix]

While we're being genuine, this level of stubbornness seems ill-advised in general

[supple timber]

maybe its just that i am not ready yet

not at the right age

[hybrid phoenix]

That's what I'm assuming, admittedly

That said, with the position you're in

Don't study game-development

Study something broader, like Computer Science or something

[supple timber]

i cant study game development

[hybrid phoenix]

That way you're not stuck in game-dev long-term

[supple timber]

because there is no place to study for

no uni

[hybrid phoenix]

Well then that's that problem taken care of 😛

[supple timber]

or college

[west sonnet]

Ah now I know you sounded so familiar. You asked the same questions a couple of months ago

[supple timber]

i am just re thinking of it

[tidal moth]

I mean the answers haven't changed since then

[west sonnet]

Answer won’t change

[supple timber]

so in the end it might just be my age

[hybrid phoenix]

How old are you?

[supple timber]

i am 19

[tidal moth]

some people join the industry at around that age

[hybrid phoenix]

Eh, same. But then, I've been looking for opportunities to emigrate for years now

[tidal moth]

but most join about 24-27

[wary kelp]

@supple timber Are you aware that you can study for free in some EU countries as an EU citizen?

[hybrid phoenix]

Either way, as I said

[supple timber]

you know its not really free

since there are living costs

[wary kelp]

Well, obviously, but don't you get those at home too?

[supple timber]

well i still live with my parents

[hybrid phoenix]

Wouldn't worry about it too much for now, because you'll have all the time in the world to worry about this after you're done with your degree

And you may look at things very differently by then

[wary kelp]

I mean considering the tuitions can be between 8-19k per year it must still be cheaper I think

But you're only 19

[supple timber]

uni is free here

[wary kelp]

I agree with @hybrid phoenix , don't sweat it

Oh, you also have free uni, I didn't know

Then I would study Computer Science

[west sonnet]

Same answers 😜

[wary kelp]

Either go Computer Science or try and impress a company

[hybrid phoenix]

For me it's always been very clear that I'd prefer not to go to uni for another four years, and that I'd like to get into some industry ASAP

[supple timber]

ok i looked up the degree

its just a very general "Software engineer"

[wary kelp]

A lot of IT-companies don't care about a degree, as some people with a degree still doesn't know shit

[hybrid phoenix]

That's fine

[wary kelp]

They only care about what you know

[hybrid phoenix]

^

This is a thing in gamedev and IT

[supple timber]

well my goal was to maybe join a AAA studio

[hybrid phoenix]

(I'm counting on it myself, aforementioned recruiter confirmed I stand a chance without degree, just my current portfolio)

See I've got to wonder

[west sonnet]

Degree is good for migrating. Which they’ll need

[hybrid phoenix]

How'd you envision joining a AAA-studio in a country without AAA studios, without relocating

🤔

[supple timber]

well then yeah i would have to relocate

if thats an absolute requirement i think that i will do it

[hybrid phoenix]

Degree is good for migrating. Which they’ll need
This is honestly the only reason I'm still thinking about getting a degree

[tidal moth]

@hybrid phoenix if you're 19, it's worth spending the time

[hybrid phoenix]

But I'm gonna go and see how it goes without for starters 😛

[west sonnet]

Only reason to get a degree honesty 😜

[tidal moth]

there's a significant chance that people won't take you seriously at that age

[hybrid phoenix]

In the long run, yes, it would be. That said, I genuinely think I'll be depressed and burnt out by the end of it

[tidal moth]

#justsupersaiyan

[hybrid phoenix]

Yeah, true

I've run into that before

I fully intend to sell myself through my portfolio and CV without mentioning my age

Until I either appear in-person or absolutely need to

(Most people estimate me as being older)

[supple timber]

speaking of european AAAs

i would love to work in like at ubisoft

i like their games

[wary kelp]

@supple timber Ubisoft has a program you can apply to after uni

[tidal moth]

yep

[supple timber]

REALLY?

pog

[tidal moth]

romania is close to greece too, so you could start there

won't be that far

[supple timber]

well thing is

i dont know the language

yeah...

[tidal moth]

everyone speaks english

[hybrid phoenix]

You know English

[supple timber]

oh wont they require like french?

[tidal moth]

well except the Paris studio smh

[hybrid phoenix]

If you turn out to be spending a good amount of time somewhere, start learning the local language

Lol

Yeah, French studios are a different story

But other than that, it's a highly international industry, and almost every studio I know has English as working language

[wary kelp]

Yeap. I know that even in vocational schools in Sweden, usually people speaks English during lectures etc even if everyone in the room understands Swedish as well. Since they are preparing for the industry standard

@supple timber https://www.massive.se/job/programmer-743999687955398/

I would recommend looking up job offers like this

It basically tells you what you need to learn

Usually they want C++ experience, so that would maybe be a good reason for you to swap to unreal

[supple timber]

yeah just thought the same

[wary kelp]

Mobile developers would probably rather have C# thouhg

[supple timber]

i am going to start

after i finish some studying i have to do

[tidal moth]

ah yes, mobile, the death of design

[supple timber]

i hate making mobile games

[wary kelp]

I was completely against mobile game development until a few weeks ago. I started playing an online pvp game (pay to win obviously 🙄 ) and I was fucking annoyed with how the people who payed got an advantage.

[supple timber]

yeah thats what i hate

[wary kelp]

I was annoyed until I heard that one of my opponents had spend 800 dollars on the game in like a month

[supple timber]

i prefer seeing all players playing on an equal level

[wary kelp]

Suddenly, I am very interested in developing mobile games xD

Imagine how money you could make from people who waste their money on that

[gentle chasm]

yes, but you need spend on user acquisition first on the incredibly crowded market
and spend your life on designing features around monetization 😛

https://tenor.com/view/vomit-jim-cary-gif-5538518

[vocal meadow]

Can you be visible though?

[wary kelp]

Well, yeah that's true :/

And it's a lot of luck as well

Imagine the person who made Flappy Bird, what a lucky lucky person

How long do you think that game took to make? Like a few hours maybe, and they made millions

[vocal meadow]

You are starting to sound like a udemy commercial

[tidal moth]

the ads are alive

[wary kelp]

Hahhaha

[gentle chasm]

only if Flappy Bird was his only game...
usually mobile studios work on dozen games at once

[tidal moth]

it's almost as if having a tiny screen for real estate and a single haptic input doesn't lend itself towards dynamic real time games

🤔

[flat gazelle]

@supple timber I work at Ubisoft Stockholm. Let me know if there's anything specific you're wondering. Language isn't a problem in Sweden as long as you know english.

[hybrid phoenix]

@flat gazelle Let me know if you mind the tag, but you were working on the Avatar project, correct? When did that start development again?

[flat gazelle]

Yeah, I'm not gonna discuss any project specifics 😛

[hybrid phoenix]

I was hoping that that question was unspecific enough to be answered

Oh well

[tidal moth]

unwritten rule is that project questions in general are "don't ask, don't tell"

[hybrid phoenix]

I'm aware, I just assumed this wouldn't be too problematic ;3

[supple timber]

@flat gazelle what programming language is required?

[flat gazelle]

c++

[supple timber]

and what else do i need?

what other qualifications

[flat gazelle]

I'm an artist so I'm not involved in the hiring of programmers I'm afraid, but qualifications in general are less important than being able to show some quality work

[tidal moth]

a positive can-do attitude, willingness to work and relocate and a slight interest in machiavellian politics

[supple timber]

like do you need to show code?

or a complete project

[mystic hull]

from my limited experience, finished projects are worth a lot more than code

So long as they're not rip-offs or plain pre-made code stitched together

Probably all the better if they're open source, so people can actually see what you did etc

but that's usually not possible on commercial projects

[gentle chasm]

@supple timber from junior programmer candidate I'd expect one of these things - in order to able to judge his skills/mindset
A) Implementation of generic mechanics or game type, i.e. looter shooter, how you would handle basic things like shooting, AI and... Inventory - which is simple concept, but easy to mess up - code around it should be relative simple and easy to understand for different programmer. No complex mechanics required, basically prove you can keep simple things simple, clean and maintainable. As cost of maintaining shitty code is high and would slow down producing a game.
B) Implementing a very specific mechanics or solving specific development/design issue. But I don't think this should be your "first project". Probably better to learn how to implement typical things in proper way.

Although your test from potential employee would be often something like "here's how AI should behave, we give a simple design, make it work"

[wooden pasture]

Hey everyone, don't know if this is supposed to be industry or career, but I was pushed forward with an interview for a game dev company and they use UE4. The req says that they want someone who is strongly proficient in C++ but my resume only said 1 yr of C++ with UE4 and they still pushed me
This is for a gameplay engineer/programmer
is this something that I could still manage with such little exp in C++ with UE4?

[barren lotus]

If it's a junior engineer position go for it or If they have a position for designer mention you feel more suited for that to focus on BP and some C++. Otherwise it doesn't hurt to just go to the interview for practice unless you feel completely out of your element based on the job responsibilities from the job listing.

During the interview they'll likely ask you technical programming questions related to what you'd be working on which is where they'll find out if you have the chops.

[wooden pasture]

I really appreciate that @barren lotus definitely makes me feel a little more comfortable about the whole thing

[blazing talon]

@wooden pasture honestly, interviews are the best thing that can happen in your career - you learn so much about things you dont know. What can be better?

Imagine it like this - the company is paying a senior person to sit and go through everything you need to know for your dream job with you.

[hybrid phoenix]

^

[flat gazelle]

If you got the interview, the company thinks you have the skills needed.

[hybrid phoenix]

They think you might have what it takes and they like the rest of your portfolio/CV, so you stand a chance even if you're not necessarily exactly what they wanted

[marsh stream]

I guess this question can be applied to different disciplines in Game Dev but for level design.
Should I create levels for a variety of different types of games? or choose a genre and make levels for that one genre? iguess choosing to be decent at a variety of genres as a level designer or being very good at 1 genre? [asking as a graduate with little to no experience]

[tidal moth]

@marsh stream didn't you ask this same question a while back?

focus on what you like to do, or, focus on what the studios you want to get into, make

[marsh stream]

Oh did i : /

probably forgot my bad

[tidal moth]

don't do the type of levels you don't enjoy

it'll clearly show

[marsh stream]

yeh good point . Argh. I guess when you want to get in the industry, u'll do anything but ur right. it wont work unless you love the levels.

I'll have to think about it then. thanks

[regal schooner]

hi,everyone , i want to know how to home Office

[keen aurora]

Set boundaries - Set either a physical space like a room, or part of a room as a "work space" and only do work in that space. If that's not possible, set a time. "between 8 and 12 and 1 and 5 I will do work" and stick to taht.

Just try to start off by keeping up a normal work routine, just... at home.

[pastel estuary]

https://twitter.com/Luos_83/status/1238450528872431616

Yoeri Vleer (@Luos_83)

As a #gamedev who has been working from home for the past 5 years (and somewhat a hermit in general) here are some tips.

1. keep your sleeping schedule.
   It's easy to sleep in, but it can become a habit.

2. Eat healthily.
   Speaks for itself.

3. Don't smoke at your desk.

Twitter

[nova tartan]

3. Don't smoke

[supple timber]

@pastel estuary ah yes

i am failing all 3

[west sonnet]

*25. Exercise. More importantly, leave the house and computer.

[tidal moth]

perhaps you might not want to leave the house during quarantine 😅

[west sonnet]

Yes, you might infect the deers when you walk through a forest.

[supple timber]

@west sonnet yeah ok i am failing everything

:sadman:

and there are no forests near by

[merry sequoia]

Why not smoke at your desk? I mean I don’t like smoking indoors in general but curious

[tidal moth]

probably because you don't wanna end up chainsmoking while working

idk tho

I don't smoke

[ashen lynx]

Fire safety, obviously!

[west sonnet]

COPD is not a pleasant way to die

[pastel estuary]

@supple timber there are way more in that thread :p

[supple timber]

yeah same

[vernal wolf]

I read your tweet whenever it was posted and now all I do is smoke

[pastel estuary]

cant blame you with all this stress :p

[supple timber]

yeah i still fail Everything

[vernal wolf]

San Francisco just labelled weed as essential

[tidal moth]

eat health & smoke

exercise & smoke

[pastel estuary]

same here, they kept coffeeshops open after a massive run happened when they wanted to close em

[tidal moth]

have an organized sleep schedule... & smoke

[supple timber]

yeah i fail all 24 of them @pastel estuary

[vernal wolf]

contrary to popular opinion, smoking weed every day is not good for your health

[supple timber]

:sadman:

[pastel estuary]

just eat it :p

[west sonnet]

Buy some applewood and smoke... a delicious meal

[tidal moth]

only eat healthy smoke though

[vernal wolf]

although I am the ultimate hypocrite, I took it as a challenge to ingest weed every day of 2019

[tidal moth]

mesquite > hickory

[pastel estuary]

did so from my 18th till my 28th year. its not that good for your mental being either :p

[vernal wolf]

ayyy

[west sonnet]

Anything is better than hickory

[merry sequoia]

The key is moderation. One or two puffs or small edible dosages. Get the benefit of freed mental blocks and not the haze of being actually high.

I mean minus if you are going into work obviously. Unless you have it for medical reasons? I don’t know how that works tbh

[tidal moth]

so, microdosing

[merry sequoia]

Yes

[pastel estuary]

depends on the company

though, once someone who finances enters the building, they want you out of their sight :p

anyhoe, while an odd topic for career-chat... /shrug

[gleaming shard]

Has anyone ever had a role where they solely worked on blueprints?

[hybrid phoenix]

I'd be very surprised if that were a thing outside of hobbyist indie teams

[gleaming shard]

Follow up question - how transferrable is the blueprint knowledge to C++? Really enjoying using them lately (as an artist).

[hybrid phoenix]

Blueprint knowledge is... Decently transferrable?

The logic is more or less the same in C++

There's just a lot more complexity involved in the entire process

Basically, everything you've learned for BPs is very transferable

[gleaming shard]

The same stuff just without the clarity? 😄

[hybrid phoenix]

You'll just also need a whole bunch of other stuff to do cpp properly

If you haven't programmed before, learning to deal with syntax will be a pain for you. Add to that C++'s pointers and such, and you're in for a treat

BPs teach you the words, CPP requires the grammar along with the words

[tidal moth]

cpp is just a bunch of nonsense

it's all fake

classes don't exist

it's all just static functions

and memory allocation

and this one thing called a vtable

[hybrid phoenix]

^You can safely block him

[tidal moth]

haha, it's true though

[gleaming shard]

I've done some swift before on a separate topic completely, got stuck with it but in turn it aided the BP learning, just on how things are spread apart and the ways in which to reference each other

[tidal moth]

cpp is apart from other languages as the well is very deep

but it also allows for the highest speeds and general optimizations

[hybrid phoenix]

I'm great at C# and blueprints

Never bit through the sour apple to learn C++

It absolutely sucks

[tidal moth]

the syntax will be largely the same, but you'll have to figure out how to play with pointers, when to allocate and deallocate memory, how to avoid dangling pointers etc.

how to use variables as references and how to dereference them etc.

[gleaming shard]

Can you substitute C++ for C# in the engine?

[hybrid phoenix]

Nope