I have not looked at the contents of the videos, but it seems clean and organized and looks positive to me
#career-chat
fickle hatch
leaden fulcrum
@fickle hatch and @west sonnet
so do you think it would also be fine to do it 2 days ago from preatty much getting the answer if they take me or not. Might be a bit late after the phone /in person interview. Do you guys thill think its fine?
north plover
usually they don't look at anything anymore. If they don't want you try to link the channel for your next application.
leaden fulcrum
They have delayed giving me a answer now twice and dont want to rule it directly out because they might be on the verge of a yes or no.
It's a small company with only around 50 employees so no major player.
north plover
You listed it in your cv you said, so if they don't know if they want you, they will probably look everything in your cv again and I guess they would see your channel.
west sonnet
If they’re consistently delaying. It’s telling me they’re not a good employer.
leaden fulcrum
@north plover They dont have a name or link. The account is also not liked to my real name in any way
north plover
ok so you only mentioned it without a link or smth? That's not quite good. I think you could mention it but I don't know who they are and how they will take it.
leaden fulcrum
So the general proces was a little wierd. But the company in question is inreal.
north plover
lol that's where I work xD
leaden fulcrum
U serious ?
north plover
Yeah 100% serious
west sonnet
🍿
leaden fulcrum
Can i have a linkedin I dont really belive you.
north plover
leaden fulcrum
Well this just got verry verry wierd.
north plover
why? xD
west sonnet
I'd call it hilarious
north plover
Would say the same xD
urban cobalt
Joining the 🍿
leaden fulcrum
I guess thats a definite no on that sending of the addition of my portfolio lol @north plover
north plover
why? o.o
plucky hatch
@leaden fulcrum now you can say you know someone at the company lol
leaden fulcrum
lol ye @plucky hatch
inner holly
hello guys is it possible to do a quick survey in discord or poll ?
novel bramble
Hey, I want to improve my art skills and was looking for good Ressourcen for game Design and game Art.
karmic kayak
how do you think GD resources would help you with 3d art tho?
it's something different entirely tbh
novel bramble
@@karmic kayak Im not looking for 3d Art in particular im looking for General art ressources
karmic kayak
still: game art and game design are two different disciplines
leaden fulcrum
Well i think shes just generally looking for Game Art.
tidal moth
game art in what way though? 2d concepts? 2d game ready? 3d environments? 3d characters?
...animation?
plucky hatch
and are you looking for tutorials or actual assets to use?
plucky hatch
are most 3d artists creating everything on.their own or do they mainly work from a concept art they received?
west sonnet
Aren’t you one? 😜 Concept art primarily. You usually don’t have much say in overall design. Unless you must wear multiple hats within a small studio or you’re a lead.
grave totem
Hey guys can someone tell me a guy who can do or teach me realistic character creation in blender or Maya or anything and then rigging it to epic skeleton?
No good tutus on Yotub and gohle or anywhere elso
fickle hatch
@grave totem I will do it for you for $200/hour
fickle hatch
Plus tax
fickle hatch
Haha. This is a chat about jobs. Try asking in a more appropriate chat. I'm not actually available for hire at this moment.
narrow scaffold
i cant tell if my resume is the problem or the projects i have on my portfolio cuz after a month of applications i have had 0 interviews
urban stump
Go to an event with industry professionals and ask one in person if it's your portfolio.
broken hollow
Why aren't there that many junior level design/lighting artist positions in california or in the states in general? Been looking for a solid junior/entry level position since 3 months now
plucky hatch
I rarely see LD positions these days.
Mainly artists and programmers.
Programmers, programmers, programmers.
All with 10+ years of experience and university.
broken hollow
yeah
programmers and animators
Im fine with lighting artist as well but its so less in the states compared to say, Europe which is surprising
The intern programs here are such a pain to get into cause they are very specific in that you need to be enrolled in a university and yaddi yaddi yadda
Like I just finished my bachelors in game design (in the UK) like 2 months ago but apparently that's not enough
kindred mason
Many "level designers" that are looking for jobs don't actually know what real level design is though
Environment Art is not Level Design
plucky hatch
"Recruiters in the Gaming Industry are horrible. I want to see change." | By anonymous face within the Games Industry
https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/71v94u/recruiters_in_the_gaming_industry_are_horrible_i/
And note...
Not all recruiters are horrible, mind you. What I am discussing down below are just a few of the stories.
Yeah I dont actively look out for Environment Art positions in the first place
kindred mason
@broken hollow Where's your LD portfolio?
broken hollow
on my artstation profile
lilac walrus
You don't see many junior lighting positions because most teams don't have more than one or two people doing lighting. Best to build a solid portfolio and apply to mid-level positions.
pastel estuary
mystic hull
Question: How do you guys deal with the "How much do you make?" recruiter question?
It makes me feel extremely uncomfortable and is just logically flawed imo, my current salary, where I current live, doesn't translate to 99% of the other situations I might get offered 🤔
Hopefully I can find some insight in here
west sonnet
That is an illegal question in most countries
mystic hull
I got asked that pretty much in every recruiter call ive ever received to date
west sonnet
Jesus
west sonnet
It can get messy depending on the area. Some can request a disclosure of your previous salary after an offer is made.
Check the legality of the country they’re residing in. In the US, laws regarding salary history can vary from State to State.
@flat gazelle May have insight.
flat gazelle
In Sweden I can find out anyones salary. It's not secret. So it's a valid question here.
I go to a certain website, pay like a 2 dollar admin fee and I get a full report
I just tell them what I make and what that means when comparing cost of living.
But I was very uncomfortable with this before as well
My advice would be honesty, and use it as a dialog. How much do you make? "As an intermediate in City X I make Y. But then there's also bonuses, stock and all that you know. How does your compensation stack up? Do you offer higher base salary or are you heavy into company equity?"
You get the gist
plucky hatch
if someone asks you how much you make, tell them as much as you can squeeze out of the boss. you might win that recruiter over and land a sweet job.
dense isle
you can name range , don't be too specific
mystic hull
Thanks a lot guys!
pastel spoke
Hello, so... get some first job it's a kinda hard, they want all a guy with experience and others things. But a first job it's a first job, how we can get the experience with all of that requirements? Some suggestions people?
vernal wolf
make cool shit
pastel spoke
That is a nice point
vivid pivot
Yeah work on projects in your spare time and build a portfolio
kindred mason
@pastel spoke What kind of job are you looking for? It'll be easier to suggest ideas.
narrow scaffold
😓
yeah i got a technical test to do for my first gameplay programmer position but not sure what kind of questions to study
tacit siren
can't really do targeted preparation for those
spring cypress
Your paragraph at the top is too long, I started reading it got about halfway through and skipped to the end. If I as someone who is looking to help you does that then interviews will probably read only half of what I did. So shorten that considerably.
When you talk about your skills and software proficiencies, Id use bullet points instead of paragraphs, again because theres just too much to read there.
Also I see no projects listed on this resume, surely you have projects or a portfolio that you can pull some examples from, if so state that. List projects you worked on with the space you save by reducing your paragraphs and work history.
Also, Id spruce up your resume with a little color, it states that you generally graphic design and artistic works, yet your resume shows me none of that.
Also, your artstation.com/nonplus url actually opens my email because you formatted all of that on one line.
Each url should have its own redirect, your artstation should bring up my web browser to that url, your email should open up my default mailing application (like it already does) and your phone number should just exist.
Also, artstation.com is currently undergoing maintenance so I cant even look at your portfolio which to me would honestly automatically disqualify you, if I cant automatically and easily look at your work Im just going to move on to the next candidate unless you have some experience or otherworldly skills that make you stand out to me.
If you want a list of suggestions amongst this wall of text, first and foremost fix your paragraphs, use bullet points for your job descriptions and list some projects that youve worked on. Focus on what youve brought to the table for these projects and how it impacted the over all project. Dont state I did X, state I did X and improved Y to bring about a successful game launch or something. Also I would HIGHLY suggest getting your own portfolio website where you can display your work and control when the website is down.
Hope this helps! 🙂 @mental ruin
ashen lynx
Keep it on art station. You are fine. If recruiter passes on your initial screening because art station is down, you would not want working there.
I'd change the font, filter out few I am's, as well as removing plural on specialization.
plucky hatch
there are a lot of words there. i use a resume as a reference during the interview, i want to glance down at it to remind be of things i want to talk about. i do not want to glance down and have to read to find what i am looking for. that is my preference, not sure how others handle it.
tidal moth
yeah I would say without any projects the CV falls apart
mental ruin
Yeah I can't really help ArtStation being down, and any other host is likely to suffer similar, sporadic issues. Thank-you though @spring cypress , all good points and noted!
What do you mean by 'projects', @tidal moth ? Are you expecting personal work where I've brought my Substance stuff together in a scene, or past experience?
As I mentioned, I have no past work experience and I have no qualifications outside of GCSEs, A levels and two failed university courses(!)
spring cypress
Sorry for my massive wall of text sounded harsh! 🙂
As for what we mean by projects, yes anything that can show case your work and ability.
mental ruin
@ashen lynx Noted, thank-you - I think I'll also trim down the opening some more.
spring cypress
If you can show any of the textures that youve done, models that youve created, scenes that youve put together using your own models or literally anything at all. It would help tremendously.
mental ruin
Well I have my portfolio of course. This is on ArtStation. As I'm applying for a texture artist role, I wouldn't have thought modelling examples in my portfolio would help much.
Or are you suggesting I feature this work inside the CV itself?
The site's back up now, you can see my work here @spring cypress https://www.artstation.com/nonplus
spring cypress
Thats some nice work!
mental ruin
Thank-you!
fickle hatch
@mental ruin yeah, your resume is really not selling you at the level that it should. This might not be a good advice, but to me a short bullet point list and later a paragraph of free form explanation looks way nicer and easier to parse. Lots of words just make eyes go all over and in the end, after glancing for your resume for 20 seconds (you are not guranteed to be afforded more than a glance), I was left with zero imprint. But as before, the artstation portfolio impressed me
I think that after spending 20 seconds of looking at your resume, I should be left with the same key points that I got from you last time when we were talking about your portfolio - that you can draw patterns yourself, that you can make complex procedural materials etc
mental ruin
Great feedback, thanks Black Fox. So do you advise I reverse the order of my CV? Also, semantics I know, but are you using 'resume' interchangeably with CV? I'm from the UK and such the term isn't so familiar to me!
I think I could trim a lot of fat, this is clear.
fickle hatch
Sorry, it's a little bit of my native language creeping in. In my native country CV and resume are 100% identical
mental ruin
Is there anything missing? I have no experience in the industry, relevant qualifications or achievements to feature, unfortunately.
Yes as I suspected! Just wanted to get that out of the way!
fickle hatch
You have some experience. I can see it on artstation. This is one of the thoughts that you wanna put into recruiters head when he glances over your resume
mental ruin
So do I just describe my 'experience' in less definitive terms? I.e., "I have over 3 years experience in using Substance Designer"
I just don't want this to be misconstrued as 'professional experience'
ashen lynx
Non, you are entry level. What kind of experience can you have? Your art station page will be speaking for you. Don't pay more attention to CV than needed.
mental ruin
This is my point exactly, really. I just feel I can't send a URL to my ArtStation alone, you know?
flat gazelle
Simplify. It's got more text than mine and that covers over a decade of work.
mental ruin
Wow, understood. Do I need a personal description at all? I want to give a brief impression of my personality at the very least.
vocal meadow
Would save it for interview personally
mental ruin
I'm just scared all this trimming leaves me with a sheet that essentially says 'I use Substance Designer' on it and that's it.
fickle hatch
I personally don't mind a little flavor text, but I wouldn't be reading it at first
mental ruin
I'm being dramatic, but keeping this concise but effective is proving super difficult!
fickle hatch
But "I use substance designer" is a pretty valuable piece of information
flat gazelle
I have two sentences I think describing my hopes, dreams and ambitions :)
mental ruin
So as Deathrey suggested BlackFox, put the software skills section first?
flat gazelle
And that part I have in a separate column. The right column is pure experience
fickle hatch
"I use substance designer and I'm quite good at it" and "I can learn quick" are some key thoughts to amplify your artstation (which currently completely shadows the CV in usefulness and relevance)
mental ruin
Right
So I'm thinking something like this:
Contact info/position applying for/ArtStation link
BRIEF Personal Description (Experienced Substance user, quick learner, creatively minded)
Skills (bullet points, trim the existing fat)
So sort of what I have now but seriously reduced.
Or would you advise I just go straight in with software skills THEN offer a bit of a personal bio at the end?
flat gazelle
Sounds good
fickle hatch
It doesn't matter where the bio is as long as it's all on one page anyway
plucky hatch
Hi everyone i am beginner in video games and i use unity 3d and i would like to know if i should go on unreal engine or stay on unity.
flat gazelle
What answer do you expect on this server?
It doesn't matter. Pick one and start making stuff
mental ruin
Okay all, as usual, extremely valuable feedback, thank-you. I'll rework it all and get back to you with an update!
Note to self: "3 years using Substance" makes you sound like a drug addict, must reword.
urban stump
“3 years using Substance to get vivid and creative images.”
west sonnet
The potential employer is going to sifting through many CVs. They want short concise information that is easy to read. You’re likely to get trashed if it’s flowery.
ashen lynx
3 years of using Substance to get vivid and creative image.
vocal meadow
pluralize so they know your familiar with various versions /s
fickle hatch
20 seconds may have been too generous of an estimate now that I think of it
I actually took more like 5 seconds looking at it
broken hollow
So Im having a hard time finding for a nice entry level position as a game, level or lighting artist. So I said fuck it and tried applying to QA positions instead and now Activision are interested in working with me for said QA tester position. Shall I really pursue it or try harder for an entry level pos for designer/artist?
spring cypress
Well is it something you are interested in doing, it might be a good way to get your foot in the door
broken hollow
QA is a pretty mundane job
but if it gets me in the industry then Im ready to do it for a year or two just for industry experience
tidal moth
@mental ruin anything really. not having any projects in your cv means it'll get thrown out
karmic kayak
note: while possible at some (smaller?) studios, most QA staff wont really get the chance to do something else. at least in my exp.
so if you want to work as artist/whatever build a folio and apply directly for those jobs
north plover
@broken hollow Some studios have some kind of role changing in their system. I know it from crytek or rather from someone of them, that if they think you don't have the skill for art or programming there you can go for a QA position. If you tell them that you want to grow up as artist to fill a position there, you can learn from the artists simultaneously with your role as QA. After some time you can change roles depending on your skill but only if you are skilled enough for the position. So sometimes it's better to go for a QA position instead of try hard to get a artist position but if they don't give you the opportunity to go the way I wouldn't recommend going the QA way because it can have negative side effects for further applications.
tidal moth
pretty much every studio I've been at has had the opportunity for QA to become something else
but in all cases you'll still have to pass tests of eligibility for those positions
it's just that you may be prioritized since you are a known entity if you are a good worker otherwise
broken hollow
Thanks for the advice guys, I will definitely consider it!
deft wasp
Hi ! I am currently working for the first time as a freelance artist and my client wants to pay me through a website named "Payoneer". (For the context, my currency is "euro" and my client's currency is "dollar").
Because it's my first job, I did some research about this website but I don't really understand if it's really necessary for freelance artist ? Wouldn't be easier to just make a bank transfer ? Why using this kind of website ?
If anyone knows about this, I'd be really curious to know more about the reasons why it can be good and/or bad.
Thanks in advance! : )
fickle hatch
Payoneer is an alternative to bank transfers, like transferwise etc
It's usually easier for the person sending money, as these systems take care of a lot of stuff
In some places, bank transfer isn't a safe or an easy option (might involve extra reporting etc that people wanna avoid)
plucky hatch
its not as popular as many bank alternatives. i believe it costs $30 a year, and the transfer fees are a bit lower then most options.
fickle hatch
People use this website exactly because it's easier than making a bank transfer in their context
mental ruin
Hi all,
I'm back again with a revised CV. I'd love to know what you all think!
@ashen lynx @fickle hatch @flat gazelle
deft wasp
Alright ! Thank you a lot for the informations ! : )
kindred mason
@mental ruin no idea what mob no is. Also I doubt FULL NAME is your name ;)
And where is this supposed 10 years experience?
(in the CV, why isn't there work history)
vivid pivot
mob no will prob me mobile number
kindred mason
Ahhh. True true.
flat gazelle
Yep, better.
kindred mason
Maybe he doesn't want to show off real life info. Didn't think about that
flat gazelle
But yeah, Victor has a point. Why is there no jobs or projects listed, despite ten years of experience?
ashen lynx
My general opinion is not giving self-appraisals in your resume. Also, I can't help it, but I still feel too many I am's.
fickle hatch
"Mob no" is actually super common in some places
Like, specifically putting it like that
flat gazelle
Mob No: "Will not accept jobs in the mob"
kindred mason
@fickle hatch what is mob no lol
fickle hatch
Mobile phone number
kindred mason
If it's mobile number. Then I get it.
fickle hatch
In some places the mobile phones are just called "mobiles"
ashen lynx
Mob no is pretty self explanatory.
fickle hatch
So a "mobile number" is pretty obviously "mobile phone number" for some
kindred mason
Aye, just didn't understand why it was like that. (Didn't put it together at the time)
fickle hatch
@mental ruin "complete understanding" is not a nice term IMO, nobody completely understands anything is the common experience people have. It caught my eye. Probably don't need to change it, just a random thought.
kindred mason
When giving critique for something you expect everything to be filled out usually
urban cobalt
It's a classication ...
"Mob: No"
If he was in the mob, it'd say "Mob: Yes"
fickle hatch
And also you keep doing "I can ..." paragraphs, you can break that up a little
ashen lynx
Years of mob experience.
fickle hatch
"IhavetherelevantskillsandunderstandingtoproducematerialsandshaderswithinUE4" -> "Can produce materials and shaders within UE4, work with the default material system or a custom one"
Adobe killed spaces when I copied the text out of it 😄
flat gazelle
I dunno. I like the compact no space version
More of a Cthulu vibe
Mob: No
Cultist: Yes
fickle hatch
You can remove the spaces haha, just don't do "I am I am I can I have" in every paragraph
kindred mason
Camel case it at least
ashen lynx
Shows that a person cares for environment. Not going to waste electricity on trafficking useless symbols through the net.
fickle hatch
It's hard to avoid when talking about yourself, but it's writing 101 to not get repetetive
It's definitely better than the last CV
urban cobalt
Pascal case pls
kindred mason
Also... Why is it Mob no... For Mobile Number... When there's no "o" in number.... Just thinking out loud here
fickle hatch
People already mentioned the 10 years vs job history stuff
flat gazelle
I would expect a fully spaceless CV from a network programmer, but I can be lenient with a material artist
fickle hatch
@kindred mason because the symbol for "number" is a "No" with upper o
kindred mason
What symbol?
urban cobalt
Cause if he use "#" for mobile number, people will go on social media these days, thinking it's a hashtag
fickle hatch
Yeah, this one
ashen lynx
A CV, done as a graph in substance designer? Beat that!
kindred mason
Ah.. interesting... The things you learn randomly
fickle hatch
This is what "No" means
kindred mason
No means no
fickle hatch
Unless it means maybe
flat gazelle
Back in the stoneage, I made my school application in Flash. Made them download an exe...
Young and stupid
I was proud of my ingenious actionscript and machinima movies that you could select in menus.
The whole portfolio was in that damn app.
Don't do that...
fickle hatch
I made a birthday card for someone once
That was a custom executable file that only displayed a picture
It was basically like one of those viruses you get in an email, just lacking the virus part
hot_babe.jpg.exe sort of a thing
kindred mason
Anyway....@urban cobalt look at this for inspiration maybe?
It's actually outdated but gives you a general idea of what others probably will expect (I do need to just edit one for the website without the redaction. I don't think anyone really cares about where you live anymore)
nova hill
My fav old school trick was replacing the windows shut down screen or similar with a new image
kindred mason
@mental ruin then 😉 my bad
mental ruin
I've just redacted personal information with the name and mobile number. The latter was phrased as such to retain formatting.
Again, to reiterate, I have no work experience or 'projects' outside of personal pieces in my portfolio. I'm applying for an entry level/junior position.
I thought I was advised last time to list my 'experience' nonetheless?
fickle hatch
Have you done any mods, free games, art for such?
mental ruin
@ashen lynx Noted on the 'I am's', I'll rework the wording. I agree entirely. Could you address the above issue on expressing my 'experience' without inferring professional experience? @flat gazelle Please advise here also if you can!
@fickle hatch Noted on the wording, I agree here too.
No mods, no free games, only some minor work on a cancelled game that wasn't published (but that I was nonetheless employed and paid for - it just didn't materialise into anything so I thought might be worthless to mention?)
I'm also currently developing a small indie game between myself and a friend, but we've only just started.
Otherwise, all my 'work' is just personal Substance pieces outside of other general 3D stuff that's not relevant to the position I'm applying for.
ashen lynx
cancelled game that wasn't published If it was legit, it should be on the list. If you can't say that you have been through A, doing B and achieving C, consider omitting it. Line by line: I am an ambitious and passionate individual Alright. with 10 years of experience in 3D software How do you measure that? From the day you first launched it till now? Why would it be relevant? I enjoy creating unique materials Fine, but I'd rephrase the same with a longer and fancier sentence. and have a complete understanding of the PBR workflow. What makes you think that you have a complete understanding? I am a quick and intuitive learner good. that is looking to join an exciting and dynamic team. No issues, but you should be aware, that exciting and dynamic teams usually pay in exposure bucks. I can confidently create fully procedural and photorealistic PBR materials Threshold of what is photorealistic is different. What might be photorealistic for you, can equally well be a hastly done sketch for others I have the relevant skills and understanding to produce materials and shaders within UE4. Which skills are relevant? What is the difference between material and shader? What makes you think that you have all the skills and they are relevant? Why not replace it with a single phrase Unreal Engine Material Editor ? As a competent modeller I have a robust understanding of topology and the UV mapping process What makes you think that you are competent? Why, you specifically highlighted UV mapping and topology as key stages of modelling ? I also understand the necessities of version control and repositories and have experience using Github and Bitbucket in solo and collaborative projects. Do you think that understanding the need matters? If you have experience using SC on collaborative projects, why none are listed in work experience? You should get where I am hinting at. @mental ruin
mental ruin
That's a really good breakdown @ashen lynx, you continue to be an enormous help, for which I'm grateful! I'll try to respond in order:
The work I did on the mentioned game was with a slocal business that had no prior published games and that no longer exists. I was paid and the project was abandoned. It really wasn't anything more than a quick buck and a learning experience.
Regarding the wording, I'm struggling to juggle between being honest, self-positive and relevant. Instead of 'complete' I've now used 'strong'. After being told to cut the fat, I'm also now struggling with being concise yet descriptive enough to give a good impression.
I list topology and UV unwrapping as I thought they were two good, principal areas I could express experience/understanding with. I can't do so other than with words and without being overly specific, so I'm struggling here too. Are you saying that expressing an understanding is irrelevant? If so, what do I put in place?
Source control is something I've only used in a personal capacity, and is something I'm using currently with the small, new project with a friend I mentioned. It feels worthless to list this as 'work experience', so what do you suggest here? Omit this entirely?
Again, I just want to give the impression that I'm knowledgeable in relevant areas. Without work experience of any professional projects to mention, what do I put otherwise? What's the point in my CV?
I don't want to lie and I don't want to be arrogant or self-aggrandising, but I need to say something, right?
ashen lynx
The work I did on the mentioned game was with a slocal business that had no prior published games and that no longer exists. I was paid and the project was abandoned. It really wasn't anything more than a quick buck and a learning experience. List it. List what exactly have you done there. Never mind if it feels too low or there is no way to cross check that. I'm struggling to juggle between being honest, self-positive and relevant So far, what you take as self-positive, in my view, works against you. I list topology and UV unwrapping as I thought they were two good, principal areas I could express experience/understanding with. I can't do so other than with words and without being overly specific, so I'm struggling here too. Are you saying that expressing an understanding is irrelevant? If so, what do I put in place? The problem is that you are already overly specific, again making negatives. Models will speak for you, if you are good. It only makes sense to dive into specifics if you are highly specialized in certain field (eg. doing only mechs, or only organics). Source control is something I've only used in a personal capacity, and is something I'm using currently with the small, new project with a friend I mentioned. It feels worthless to list this as 'work experience', so what do you suggest here? Omit this entirely? Surely drop it. Telling that you can use source control is like mentioning that you know how to use knife when applying as a cook.
@mental ruin
Check the studios, you are going to apply to. Find their recently hired juniors. Check their resumes. That will be a good indication for you.
flat gazelle
Check their recently hired intermediate and seniors as well.
They tend to have iterated more on their CVS.
mental ruin
Is LinkedIn the place to look for these?
flat gazelle
Yeah
plucky hatch
If I can create games, can I already work as a game designer?
sounds like an obvious answer, but I want to make sure
flat gazelle
On your own? Sure, call yourself what you want.
In a studio? If you have to ask that question it's unlikely you know enough.
plucky hatch
To be a game developer, you have a good chance. To get a job where you are the game designer . . . well that is probably a very long road. Unless you position yourself where you own the studio.
lilac walrus
game designers almost never 'own the studio'; they're a discipline like most others
if you want to work as a game designer, design games and release games
get used to things like producing documentation, balancing spreadsheets, all that stuff that other people will rely on you to produce
there are plenty of articles on topics, as well as different design paradigms and models
it's also good to know classical psychological game theory models and examples
plucky hatch
If you can code and design your own games you can show off your game design skills. your projects are playable
designers who just write docs and balance spread sheets... are just pretenders. Their skills arent tangible.
steel merlin
In general, even very simple playable prototypes are worth showing off. Or mods, game modules built in other games toolsets etc. You wouldn't believe how many people apply for design jobs, but don't have anything playable to show.
Documentation work is really important, but it's the theory step. Showing your design abilities & approach in practice is so much more powerful and separates you from the competition.
plucky hatch
You could write a 500 pages long document and still suck at game design.
GD is difficult to analyze. It takes time and skills to do so.
A playable game is far more explicit.
More importantly, if you can make games by yourself it means you can test your ideas. You dont depend on others for this. Meaning you can come back home and get truly better at your craft.
Not just pretending to be creative because you got "ideas". In GD you either learn by playing and studying games or testing your own concepts.
A few GDs I know started as game reviewers.
steel merlin
Yeah, no one wants to hire an "Idea Guy"
tidal moth
in most companies game designers won't be as hands on as creating their own thing
rather it'll be more of the japanese stereotype of "planner"
where you correspond with programmers to get features in
and other departments as well, as needed
most it's either young companies or indies that have a more practical approach to game design
there was a talk on this topic somewhere
that was very good
it was the ubisoft toronto game director that basically pinpointed what game designers do, and how a game designer should think
plucky hatch
When I look for competent designers they either have a strong background in competitive play or reviewing games or developing indie games
tidal moth
this is the talk
I consider this pretty alpha omega in terms of how a general game designer acts
plucky hatch
People think gd is creative and that is the problem. it has a lot more to do with having learned from past games. And then you just know what works or doesnt and build on top of that.
north plover
And it really depends on which games you will work. Some games rely heavily on math and/or physics knowledge. Balancing of games is a lot of math too, so if you are not into math and/or physics it would be hard to find a studio which want to have you. Game design is like Chris P. said not (only) have fancy ideas or smth. it's a lot of how systems work together and how your game will achieve what you want it to be and in my opinion every game designer need a solid understanding of math and physics.
tidal moth
I would say systems architecture and design more than math
unless your game relies overly on math, like world of x
that have mathematician game designers that guard their formulas with their life
since they would be expendable otherwise
fickle hatch
Systems architecture! I love complex systems. Mostly not in the context of videogames, but generally the skill of being able to work with complex systems as a whole is very valuable for any aspect of development, including game design
tidal moth
simulation theory (not the philosophical one) is really interesting
I like stuff like dwarf fortress
where the bugs aren't as much bugs as they are things that are working as intended, but weirdly interacting in ways that are not readily decipherable
fickle hatch
Asynchronous simulation of complex systems has been my primary thing I did for most of my life now
From aerospace vehicles to trains to actually something that's kinda like dwarf fortress that I'm working on
In all of the recent simulations I did, the concept of an "error" did not quite exist in the normal sense - it really becomes just intricate behavior of the system rather than an obvious simulation error
tidal moth
broken hollow
On topic of game design jobs, that is 100% my goal in the game industry to uphold the title as a GD. However, getting in the industry from a game designer position is almost like a pipe dream. While I have designed games and displayed it on my portfolio and artstation profile (in teams and solo), it's still very hard regardless.
plucky hatch
I've only seen randoms getting jobs as GD, often as a way to promote people
It's cool when you get that title by vocation
And I would encourage you to do so
Because frankly, we need more of those
broken hollow
It's cool when you get that title by vocation
And I would encourage you to do so
Lmao definitely
But yeah, I try every now and then when I see a good GD position. Though, I dont usually waste my time and energy towards trying to get an entry level position for it cause its just so rare.
vital topaz
QUESTION: I'm looking for work for hire assignments with my company "Not A Company". But I do not know where to post some stuff about it? As in, the looking-for-work channel looks more for individual freelancers/people that want a fulltime job. (We're only 2 people so it would practically be freelancing, but OK ;)... )
karmic kayak
I'd still post your offer in said channel. As there is no other option on unreal slackers afaik.
perhaps not ideal for hired gun stuff but well...
vital topaz
Alright, will try!
tidal moth
@broken hollow if you don't have the experience to merit a regular position, why wouldn't you want to go for a junior position?
lilac walrus
well, junior GD is pretty rare outside of a few large companies
a lot of people move into GD as a sidestep from other disciplines, or otherwise move there from having effectively fulfilled the role in a small team
plucky hatch
My computer costs 175.61US including monitor and peripherals, the way is to save.
lilac walrus
...and this is relevant to what?
plucky hatch
I don't know, I just talk shit
tidal moth
idk how rare it is, we just hired a junior GD at ours, and we're by no means huge.
but even so, getting hired as a junior at let's say Ubisoft is a great way to start
and those positions should be aplenty given how many studio locations Ubisoft has
so I'm not sure I buy the fact that it is rare
and even so, applying to a rare position doens't lower your chances since your base chance is 0%
broken hollow
@tidal moth I do try to go for it, but its very rare when I search for them
I really cannot find a solid jr entry level game design position in the states 🤔
plucky hatch
Several studios around here are hiring interns at the moment.
broken hollow
yeah I have applied to certain ones, the only downside is that its for summer 2020
vocal meadow
Curious but what does the title GD involve in terms of day to day?
flat gazelle
And in general: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3PqqcmWYas
karmic kayak
The Fellowship of the Tooth .. oh wait
vocal meadow
So ai squad placement in levels, level design are types of GD jobs?
dense isle
Yes, but not art. They are preparing space for gameplay
Npc scripting if tyou have one
vocal meadow
So industry would say, Npc scripters are game designers yes?
dense isle
Technically yes
I mean , if it is a big company that is producing RPGs - there probably will be a separate team for that
vocal meadow
but still game designers?
dense isle
yep
vocal meadow
sorted.
vocal meadow
Yea role just means you design something in the game yes?
dense isle
yep
vocal meadow
gotcha.
dense isle
and I believe requirements are usually to be familiar with visual scripting or any programing language
vocal meadow
what do you call the person writing the design documents?
flat gazelle
Also game designer
vocal meadow
theres no special type of game design title towards docs?
or does everyone just document their own designs equally on whatever subject and theres no such thing as someone that just writes documents soley?
west sonnet
A producer?
vocal meadow
Makes sense.
flat gazelle
It's faster to iterate on a document than a full implementation. So you iterate on docs until you're reasonably sure it'll work, then you implement.
The role you are looking for is Idea guy. And they don't exist.
vocal meadow
Ah cool. Still confused on what a junior GD would be but, if its like a junior npc scripter I'd understand it.
plucky hatch
Game designers write doc, do design mockups, prototyping, excel sheets, lore, story, game controls, gameplay, character classes, enemy design, skill trees, menu wireframes, game systems, progression systems, etc.
Level designers often temporarily fill this role too during pre prod.
Some studios now have more specialized roles such as combat designer, UX designer, economy game designer, narrative designer, etc.
dense isle
Story usually done by professional writers
and lore
they could have GD in their title , but they are writers with specific skills and they don't script that much
flat gazelle
Writers aren't game designers
THey might have some overlap with Narrative design, but not that much.
plucky hatch
Always depends on the strengths and weaknesses of the employees. Some designers are really good writers too.
flat gazelle
Irrelevant. They are two fulltime jobs.
Having one person do both is only plausible for very small games.
flat gazelle
Well, for mere mortals who are less godlike than you, it's two fulltime jobs. Obviously, you can do it all. I was more thinking of the other peasants around.
plucky hatch
💗
west sonnet
Sounds like you’ve been cheated out of your payroll
plucky hatch
You'll probably find several designers in the industry who come from a D&D background and are used to crafting worlds and stories.
Probably more common with the designers from my gen.
born between 1975-1990
west sonnet
How would that be relevant to the job description
flat gazelle
shhhh
plucky hatch
extremely relevant...
west sonnet
Alright alright glad
flat gazelle
I'm an awesome doctor and car mechanic (due to where and when I was born) and therefore I magically have time to do both jobs.
dense isle
The best designer that I've met were people who came from other disciplines like art and prog...but not d&d , sorry
plucky hatch
How many video games were actually heavily influenced by D&D?
Diablo, Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Dragon Age, etc.
Dragon's Dogma...
And then Fable, Mass Effect, Deus Ex, etc.
It bleeds through games...
How many games featured Warrior, barbarian, wizard, thief, etc.
The influence of D&D is massive on video games
dense isle
How d&d experience will make a person more qualified for gd work ?
plucky hatch
I wasn't referring to D&D as in playing D&D
I was talking about game designers who are former Dungeon Masters who had to create games for their players
They had to create story beats, characters, story twists, distribute loots, etc
All the same shit we still do today with video games
dense isle
dungeon masters for their buddies ?:)
plucky hatch
People are all different.
There are different crowds, different places
WHen I was in high school, we had 3 guys from College who were running D&D games during lunch time every week
We had a place in downtown dedicated for this, they had ''expert DMs'' there
Later in high school, we had 2 guys dedicated to it as well. Really good at it.
dense isle
So ?
plucky hatch
I was running games for my friends. Basically 3 weeks of work for a weekend of play
dense isle
so? 🙂
plucky hatch
It's work. Practice. Training. Experience
plucky hatch
Dude I ve seen plenty of gamers that had better game design sense than game designers that have shipped 10 games
Game design doesnt come from shipping fucking games
It's a craft. And you need to hammer it
plucky hatch
They have played many
dense isle
so?
plucky hatch
You either learn by making or playing
And if you work in AAA, your job is often very specific. And you (lol) often have a lot of down time
XD
dense isle
can you make a movie just by watching tons of them ?
or build a car just by riding it ?
plucky hatch
As I said it's a craft
You need to study
Yes by watching films you can get pretty good
The problem is you can also just watch a film and not pay attention to anything
plucky hatch
In video games, we do production work.
It's very specific.
You aren't necessarily there to learn
Or improve
Someone might as well ask you to copy X thing from X game
We need it by friday
I had this discussion with my Design Director before
Game prod isn't meant to make you better
that's something you do at home
If you are lucky you might have opportunities at work
Depends on the role, context, game, etc
vocal meadow
sounds like design has no place in game production
visual trellis
@dense isle I agree with @plucky hatch There is a difference between being able to design a game well and actually being able to build a game. @vocal meadow raises a good point. In current AAA development there is often no time nor money invested in actually making sure a game is well designed; only that it actually works to enough of a standard to market like crazy. That's why so many indie games are actually good (but hardly make a cent) while there are a bunch of mediocre, rehashed AAA titles that break no ground, but still can turn enormous profits.
In AAA industry, we are in dire need of designers who can actually make interesting, well designed games within the many constraints placed upon a project.
vocal meadow
I didn't understand the argument tbh, was questioning it. I don't know much about how AAA studios operate, was just curious of what someone with a role of game designer does. Then it turned into how everyone should do everything, and learn better, play d&d etc.
finite mulch
Hey pat
vocal meadow
Hello phy
west sonnet
I’m amazed pro player hasn’t been inserted yet
finite mulch
What are you doing is these wild lands?
west sonnet
Would be interested in hearing the definition from various studios as well. Only heard of game designer -as a job description- from individuals who never worked in the industry
finite mulch
But then - what is work?
vocal meadow
Thats pretty much been what i've encountered too homework folder. People who want to enter the industry.
I don't think i've ever seen many help wanted notices for "Game Designer"
flat gazelle
Our game designers handle core loops. But there are many other types of designers doing things around them.
lilac walrus
smaller indies almost never ask for game designers (though they often need them)
but yes, as in Glad's case, our game designers are mostly concerned with various loops inside the game, as well as handling balancing sheets and that kind of thing
people like myself handle rapid prototypes and more systems orientated stuff (technical designer), and we have level design to handle world based stuff
our team is pretty small for this particular part of the game and we inherit a lot from a much larger team though
honest cipher
@flat gazelle what do you think a game designer can do to move from indie-school to industry? Im talking about the kind of dude that designs and implements the core gameplay logic + balancing
tho of course without being a proper programmer and more like scripting
flat gazelle
No clue to be honest. I'm neither a designer nor an indie so I'd be guessing wildly. I just work with the bastards 🙂
honest cipher
he was asking me about getting a job and i just didnt know how to answer. I can comment stuff for programmers or artists, but about designers.... no idea
narrow vigil
This has probably been asked before, but to get a junior/internship position for programming is only having a portfolio good enough? As an example if I could make something like sparky engine, https://github.com/TheCherno/Sparky, would I stand a chance? I know college would be a plus, but how much harder would it be not having college?
ashen lynx
That would be more than enough to land internship, but it is more of engine programming rather than gameplay side of things. Depending on the place, something as simple, as decent codingame account would be sufficient for gameplay programming intern.
honest cipher
@narrow vigil for what i know, and what i know from other programmers, the best way to get positions as a programmer is to have a blog with cool shit, or a stream, or a series of public projects you can showoff. Something that your possible employes can find quick. The "cool shit" factor is also huge
once you are already in the industry with some experience behind you, you no longer need all that so much
plucky hatch
EA currently has a few Game Balance Specialist positions available at the moment. I couldnt accept the job because it is part time. But it might suit some people.
broken hollow
I like how my designer application for warner bros is still "under review" since 5 months
vocal meadow
Companies shouldn't be able to keep people in suspense for so long. They have an actual system for checking the status on applications?
broken hollow
Well I did send them an application for a game designer position a while back so they said no (after 3 months), so there's that at least
plucky hatch
@broken hollow I know the feeling
And then you see they just hired 10 juniors
🤣
You dont get any info on what wasnt in your resume/portfolio
The current methods of hiring arent helping them.
It isnt helping them build a pool of talent for their business
broken hollow
too real 
tidal moth
@honest cipher sounds like he just needs to show a portfolio of cool shit he's done as a designer. AAA isn't different from indie in terms of work done, but it may be more specialized
knotty iron
Hi!, I'm looking for some feedback to my portfolio. I don't have a job within the game industry or a degree within it. Only been working on my own projects on my free time. Looking to get into the industry at more or less any entry job. https://oliverlagerblad.se/
mental ruin
Quick question:
As an entry-level artist, I've been previously advised to include my work experience in my CV/resume, even though it was on an unreleased title with a now non-existent company. It appears that any previous experience is better than nothing. Would the same apply to my education? I have been to university twice but dropped out without completing my course on both occasions, and I fear this might not work in my favour if mentioned? Any advice?
karmic kayak
it shouldn't be too relevant. i'd just leave it out then.
lilac walrus
"why?"
mental ruin
@karmic kayak @lilac walrus Noted. The degrees were art related, so I thought it might be relevant and show some experience. I won't include it.
Do you both advise listing the aforementioned work I did?
tidal moth
@knotty iron don't start with an about me page. show your work first, then maybe people will be interested in you as a person
don't write shit like this
No matter how deep and intriguing the game design can be it will all fall apart if you don’t have an interesting arena to play round in with it
it's either obvious or condescending, and it just makes it seem full of yourself
flat gazelle
The website is blocked by my company firewall so I can't even see it. :/
tidal moth
when doing a level design breakdown, please please please show it in a layout form instead of with full art/lighting
it's so much harder to make out what you're trying to do
there's also a lot of text on every page
I would replace a lot of that text with video
of the particualr things you did
and keep text to a few sentences per video MAX
merry tartan
@knotty iron I am looking at your website, that about me section should be short, looking for a job in level design nobody cares about the other bullshit.
tidal moth
people might care if the work is interesting enough
but the work needs to be in focus on portfolio site
merry tartan
I would replace all the images with one video that contains everything you want to show with bursts of text and VO.
and make it easy the first thing to click on
you get about 20-30 seconds of focus from whom ever is looking at your stuff
tidal moth
don't make one long video either no, make a few short videos of specifics, and highlight those
making one long video is just asking people to ignore you
merry tartan
well I would avoid more clicks most HR people are just making sure it can work for the leads / hiring manager.
tidal moth
HR people aren't the ones you are catering to with a portfolio
merry tartan
the good ones test it before they send it to leads or they never hear back from the leads
or have the HR monkeys do it
tidal moth
I don't know about that
merry tartan
yeah they click on it from your CV if it dont work they might tell or not and move on
more likley they wont tell you anything
Also you are going for a creative role
tidal moth
I think if they see a solid portfolio, they glance over it at best and let the leads decide
but that's just my personal experience
I'm not affiliated with HR, I just work in the industry
merry tartan
The fact that you cant come up with a title for your Untilted project shows as a mistake to me.
I just work in the industry and hired a lot of level designers over the years.
tidal moth
I genuinely would not care what he named the project
merry tartan
I am just giving you the exact feedback I would have if i was looking at this to hire.
I dont care what you care about man
🙂
I am telling you what I see
merry tartan
and being as harsh as possible
well he can do what he wants with all the feedback right, just opinions
my opinion is just a hard ass with 30 seconds to look at your work
merry tartan
I know some people are much nicer others are worse - art leads tend to be nicer
tidal moth
I consider breaking things down into bite sized chunks essential
enough to give an idea about what they're trying to do, as an example
I wouldn't even start watching a video of 2+ minutes
gif even would be preferred
merry tartan
why I am looking at a black and white video when I see color images in this raw game play video? Why doesn't it have a beinging middle and end
knotty iron
Thank you all for the feedback. Something to think about. FYI unless it wasn't clear that is a solo project @tidal moth "of the particualr things you did".
tidal moth
I meant more of what you were looking to do
I read something that you were trying to do something with puzzles for power ups. ok, fine. show me how.
naturally if it were a team project I would expect only to see the things you did on the project
merry tartan
The work looks over all cool I like how clean it is but the black and white is an odd choice, I would redo it you have a lot of the same things straffing and firing you dont get a sense of the levels flow from the editing.
I would reduce all the text about your opionions about anything, show your work and if they have interest and interview you can offer opinions that are asked for you might be closing the door even before it opens.
knotty iron
@merry tartan well the only title I was happy with was overwatch, that however was a title announced 3 months after i went with it. All other titles have been hammerd by opions so haven't found the one i'm looking for yet.
tidal moth
if untitled goose game can be a thing, so can untitled shooter project
might not be an ideal title, but in reality nobody gives a shit about the title
merry tartan
anyone that is working in the gaming industy working on the worst POS FPS game is doing better then anyone not working right?
Work on anything > Not working
Not sure if you have a job or not seems like you born 1990 so I started in 1989 so that would make you 30 years old. Now that isn't that old I hired a guy out of a wearhouse when he was 40 for Medal of Honor and he turned into one of the greatest level designers for the COD franchise
This was in the Quake 3 days, so he had some good maps we gave him a shot, he did great worked his ass off.
tidal moth
I don't know how much age matters in the realm of HR
merry tartan
ah I found as I hit 50 here in a month and watching people fall out of the industry that if you got the skills you can keep going but if you let up you get passed by newer generations and become useless in production if you can't hack it in management you get bounced out.
knotty iron
@merry tartan There is supposed to be color in the raw gameplay video on the right. Ended up being a mistake.
merry tartan
its why I keep working to develop my skills even though I been doing it my entire life.
tidal moth
the mean time spent in the industry last I checked was like 8 years
merry tartan
yeah no mistakes man you get one shot per person just clean it up you can always fix it.
yeah I hit 31 years this year.
19 to 50 in november
I am going blind though I need to get glasses but I am trying to hold out til 50
🙂
@knotty iron I like the UI design in color as well, very clean, and you icons.
My only question is does the critical damage get bright red and flash when it is going and what the animation / color changes are like during game play.
flat gazelle
Has it really gone up to 8?
Wasn't it like below 4 a few years back?
ah
Mean
not average
merry tartan
not sure I remember them saying the average time for an EA employee was 16 months or one product cycle but that was a long time.
I know most of the COD guys last 1 cycle so 3 years very small % make it past one cycle on those projects.
lilac walrus
sounds like roughly a legal limit for a temporary contract before an employee needs to go permanent, heh
merry tartan
its 89 days in California for that.
lilac walrus
but yeah, average time in the industry is something like 8 years
merry tartan
you can do a TFT temp full time that is how they get around it and fire everyone after the project ships.
at peak COD will have 700-1000 after the first expansion pack or even before they start trimming the team of the contractors.
knotty iron
@merry tartan Health and shield numbers fades to red and scales up. Hit indication (over crosshair) depends of damage amout done, white, yellow, red. Damage indicator color and size remains same for all amount of damage.
merry tartan
like IW will be dumping people before the 1/4 ends around Feb next year.
@knotty iron yeah when you redo your video and it is in color it will be cool to see that all working, and what colors you make it to draw the focus away and then return it toward the action.
this is the harsest question I can have for you level so this was designed to have these machine navigate through it and you have that many stairs for them? The level's theme dosen't match the characters.
You ever play virtual on old sega arcade game from 90's?
It is a robot fighting game they have simple square arenas with very little elevation changes if this is suppose to be a console level the changes are too much for a console player, pc it would be fine.
last thing I would suggest is putting some atmosphere in the level a skybox and some cool lighting to create shadows I just see a black void and just harsh black
as the great sega designers used to say every black pixel is a wasted pixel
You might want to use a trusted location for your work like artstation or something that everyone is clicking on with out worry.
knotty iron
@merry tartan Thank you for your input and time. Valueble.
That would be an inherited flaw from pivoting to a more possible scope of a game. There were supposed to a human element to it aswell. I do agree with you, just have to pick my battles when updating previous made stuff. - stairs comment
The game is focused for PC.
very good feedback 🙂
merry tartan
yeah I like your thing because it made me think of one my favorite arcade games of all time, when that came out I played at the trade show for 2 days straight I loved it. We were working on a helicopter game named steel talons and it was the closest thing to it with better hardware and cool robots fighting each other with swords, that would another cool thing to add to your game some close in combat with laser swords chopping the robots to parts. I would play that. 🙂
knotty iron
I think you would have liked my melee prototype weapon, extendible brass knuckles. Funnily enough kind of looked like hulkbuster ironman arm.
One think i'm thinking about however is the feedback about to much text. I get a HR person isn't gonna spend time reading it. Idealy some gamedesigner or lead would and go he seems like he got his head on his shoulders. You guys don't feel like you would loose that feeling with just a presented video with limited text ?
merry tartan
you are going to get 30 seconds from one HR person and 30 from one lead if they don't turn it off before they move on. They are looking for a sense of your skill level so they can decide if they want to talk to you.
all you are trying to do is get to the next step
some times I am surprised when I go to meetings that they looked at anything I have done, rare they will ask questions about it.
what you are hoping for is who ever is looking at it to pull other people over to come look at it as well, then they stand around and pick it a part, and then someone will ask, well should we bring them in?
most times it is oh jesus this is horrible move on to the next
pastel estuary
mental ruin
Can anyone offer some general cover letter advice? I'm applying for a role that requires one as per the application process and I'm trying to keep it short and personalised.
I really want the position so I'm certainly motivated, but I don't want to overdo it!
Any tips on what to include?
So far I have
- Why I'm applying
- Why I think I fit the role
- A bit about how I tick from a creative pespective
- Personal interests and how they relate and
- Personal interests otherwise
mental ruin
Anyone got any advice on the length a cover letter should be, also? I wanna mention everything but keep it trim!
Is one page appropriate?
flat gazelle
a full page sounds excessive
What I want to know when I read a cover letter is Why you want to work here. Why you think you'd be a good fit and what drives you
Everything else I'll get from the interview
west sonnet
I personally do; opening/why I want to work there, bulletpoint of additional qualifications, polite closing statement.
plucky hatch
The cover letter is a double-edge sword depending on who will read it.
Sometimes it is better to send one.
Sometimes, it's better to not send any.
flat gazelle
It was Literally a requirement in this case...
plucky hatch
Yeah, in such case you don't really have a choice.
I've been required to send screenshots from my game profiles recently (lol).
mental ruin
Yeah it's a requirement here. I thought this might be an opportunity to detail my experience and understanding with other software aside from Substance Designer, as they stipulate this as a requirement in the listing... but then I guess most of that is featured in my CV anyway under Software Skills. I just wanted to substantiate it.
@flat gazelle , do you ever expect to see/wish to see a paragraph, say, on the applicant's other interests? "I enjoy dressing up ducks in period costume", for example
flat gazelle
Not really
lilac walrus
the other interests can be useful for breaking the ice during an interview, especially an on-site one
tidal moth
I'd certainly be interested in hearing how one becomes a duck period tailor
mental ruin
Application submitted. First of many, I suspect. Thank-you all for your help - each and every one of you here - it's greatly appreciated.
Now we cross our collective appendages. Cross them in a writhing, fragile nest of hope.
dire timber
Hey guys. I have zero to almost no game development experience and i was thinking about picking Unreal Engine for a 2D or 2.5D game.
Do you think it's a good idea to pick Unreal for something like this? I'm very worried about the optimization, but i also know this is one of the best engines that i can use.
I got unmotivated over that but i got motivated again after i have seen what Siege and the Sandfox can do
tacit siren
I have zero to almost no game development experience - with that you should not be worrying about optimization, just trying to make things work
dire timber
That's not really a problem, its just a matter of learning and I do watch lots of guides when i have time
lilac walrus
it's a decent option for 2.5D for sure, but for 2D it's heavy and lacking features
in any case, if you have no experience, this is largely irrelevant
since your ability to optimise is going to be based on that experience - I would agree with Zlo, and worry more about making something actually work first
dire timber
Alright
honest cipher
For 2d a big possibility is custom engine
if you are confident at programming and are making like a pixel art game
making a pixel art engine takes only a few days
frosty nimbus
I'd say the main benefit of UE4 for someone new at gamedev is Blueprint visual scripting, which is easier to get into for artist/designer types.
plucky hatch
Aren't Unity and Godot popular for 2D games?
C++ is great and blueprint is cool
But some people might just prefer to have access to some more straight forward scripting language
frosty nimbus
Gamemaker too. If Blueprint has no appeal then there's a world of options for 2D.
honest cipher
Godot is shit. Unity is closed source, but probably a better option than unreal for 2d
but if you have decent C++ programming skills, making that 2d game on your own engine is very likely faster than using unity, because the engine part of a pixel art game is basically non-existant
daring geyser
Unity 2D isn't terrible, but it's certainly better than trying to force it in Unreal. If you want to try experimenting with Unity 2D in a visual scripting format, I'd highly recommend the Playmaker plugin you can get from their asset store.
narrow scaffold
guys anyone know if people get hired from going to MIGS(montreal international game summit) cuz as a recent grad been looking for work/internship for 2 months and havent found anything so wondering if that would be a good investment even though its expensive?
west sonnet
2 months is nothing for someone trying to enter the industry. Expect a year or more if it’s a competitive role and they lack any networks.
vocal meadow
How expensive is it? It doesn’t look very individual friendly https://megamigs.com/en/new-bus-contacts/ but you could try to chat people up for work
narrow scaffold
its almost $1000 for access to networking event as well as conferences
plucky hatch
Hi, can someone give me some advice?
I'd like to try doing some gamedev kind of work from the "looking for talent" section but I'm kind of scared to get started. Can someone kind of walk me through how that usually works and especially what happens when I mess up. I'm afraid of messing up, and maybe more than I should be, but it's still how I feel so I want to kind of feel convinced that I can do this.
spice dagger
If your really concerned and would like to get comfortable about the process first, take on some Unpaid work that you think your capable of achieving. If you mess up or fail to deliver, be upfront. Honesty is always the best policy.
Be realistic about your abilities but you should try and take on something that is a little outside your comfort zone so that you can grow your skills.
Job Listings will always have a preferred method of contact. Find one that you think fits you and then contact that person via that means and discuss the role together.
Make sure you understand the requirements of what is being asked of you. Sometimes the requirements arent all upfront, you may need to ask questions first before you can really get a good idea of what to expect.
Make sure you and the other party are on the same page as much as possible.
Constant communication (as necessary) and a clear guideline on what the final product should look like is paramount.
Once your both happy on those terms, do the work as discussed.
After you get your feet wet and understand the process, start thinking about what your time is worth to you and be realistic about the quality of your work in relation to your perceived worth.
If your confident in your abilities, your output and what your willing to ask for in return for your time. Approach some Paid opportunities or start listing yourself in #looking-for-work or the forums Job Board.
Be clear and upfront about your skills, what your availability is and the type of work your looking for. Its your choice to publically disclaim your hourly rate (if thats how you choose to value your time) or discuss it after you find a possible opportunity.
Make sure you have a clear and consistent schedule and method for which to be paid. Talk about these terms with the other party before agreeing to any work. It is also a good idea to look into signing a Contract (if thats not already suggested by the other party).
Always protect yourself when dealing with other members of the community, especially in financial matters.
Always be calm, professional and clear in your dealings.
If your unhappy about terms that are presented to you, either attempt to negotiate better terms or decline your services. Do not be afraid to say no if something doesnt seem right.
plucky hatch
Wow. That's a lot of good info especially about setting expectations and final goals.
I'm going to let that sink in for a bit and perhaps take some steps
torpid whale
^ yup awesome info
crisp depot
great advice there man
thick hinge
looking for advice on finding a chance to work overseas
i... am not sure where to start to be honest
fairly new to the industry so i dont claim to comprehend how it works
but i imagine employers generally look for people that are already geographically close if its not a remote job?
i suppose this depends on the employer as well but do you generally just take a risk and go abroad, then apply for positions or are employers willing to conduct interviews remotely?
kindred mason
Look for Internships
Very rarely will you get sponsored in the USA anymore. Not saying it's not possible...but probably not for someone green.
Start with remote jobs, build experience would be my advice. Moving around is risky in this field anyway 😉
thick hinge
hmm
i should probably have said that i do have experience
but just not in moving jobs ahahaha
vocal meadow
Has there been a drop off of work visas here?
tidal moth
if you're new your chances are at best slim
moving there is the best option to get a work visa or equivalent, and then you can see about applying
kindred mason
^ don't do that
There's no 100% job security in any field, however I would say that Game Development is probably in the top 5 of jobs with lowest job security IMHO.
If you want an in, shoot for internships abroad, there are plenty running throughout the year.
Otherwise build up that portfolio and just start applying everywhere you want. You never know, you may get lucky.
tidal moth
he said he wasn't new to the industry however
but still, getting accepted with a work visa across the pond without at least some good 5+ years is very rare
whereas going there might yield enough acceleration in the visa process that you can actually get a residency and start doing stuff within a year, since there are lawyers specializing in just that
but that's not about the industry as much as it is moving abroad
in regards to job security, it's the same anywhere in the industry, so it doesn't really matter that much where you are if you are laid off. I'd always advise saving in any situation
plucky hatch
The best advice I could give would be to focus on getting good at jobs that arent industry specific and where there are jobs everywhere or you can work from anywhere remotely.
And do game dev on the side.
fickle hatch
@thick hinge do you want to move or just work elsewhere
thick hinge
im about to go to bed but the latter, although working with other people physically would be preferable
fickle hatch
Aah. Well, there are ways to move that get you an employment card, like marriage
But that isn’t feasible when you just wanna work
kindred mason
mental ruin
How long does it typically take for studios to get back to you, if at all, in everyone's experience?
tidal moth
varies greatly
depends on their needs and procedures
usually within a week should be reasonable to expect
2 at most
after that I'd say it's a no
fickle hatch
I still haven't received a reply on my job application from 10 years ago
Any day now though
mental ruin
I believe in you BlackFox!
Thanks Cranz
Only applied 4 days ago, so here's hoping...
bronze dew
why are interviews always so difficult
plucky hatch
@mental ruin
They can forever ignore you.
One studio gave me a reply 6 months later right when I had just signed for another job. Told them sorry, I just signed a contract. And then months later when I was actually available, they asked a friend of mine for the job and he referred them to me and then the role was supposedly filled.
Been playing cat and mouse since 2012 and I'm really sick of it.
As if we could all just wait for them, homeless.
Until they say yes.
We got a job for you.
Then you got find other gigs unrelated to your specialization and then they imagine you drifted away from your field
That's why I'm telling you, it's all good when you have a job and can switch studio.
But 1 bad thing, wrong place, wrong time and can possibly end your career too.
bronze dew
need to keep at it... sometimes you also need to travel
broken hollow
@plucky hatch > But 1 bad thing, wrong place, wrong time and can possibly end your career too.
what do you mean by this?
red crater
Do we have any game designers here who could show me their portfolio? Cheers! 🙂
north plover
portfolio as game designer -> shipped games?
ashen lynx
@mental ruin Ranging from minutes to a month. In any case, don't go all in on one place, and apply wherever possible.
lilac walrus
in my case it's shipped games, yeah
mental ruin
@ashen lynx Right. I thought it might be best practice to apply to a few select studios to begin with, before I 'carpet bomb' the industry - do you think that's proper? I don't want to end up signing on to a job (if I get one) with a studio before getting a reply from one I'd rather work for later.
lilac walrus
if you lack shipped games, game jams, and other projects are usually good
playable projects are king
mental ruin
At the same time this will be my first position and I can't afford to be too choosy, I appreciate that.
lilac walrus
you gain nothing by only applying to a handful
apply to everyone, interview with those that offer, and pick a favourite at the end
tidal moth
agreed
if the reject you for being inexperienced reapplying in a couple of years time with some experience will still make them reconsider you
mental ruin
How long would a studio realistically wait on my acceptance, though?
If I want to consider options
I'm speaking entirely hypothetically - I've not heard from anyone yet and almost don't expect to!
lilac walrus
depends on how desperate they are to fill the position, and how many other candidates they're interviewing
mental ruin
Sure
lilac walrus
if they still have 10+ guys to interview, they have a couple of weeks on their own side anyway as an example
tidal moth
again rule of thumb I would say is a week of time
mental ruin
I'm just really new to this. I'm thinking from a logistics perspective too - as willing as I am to relocate, some studios would take a great deal more planning to work for than others based on location alone.
Sure
ashen lynx
@mental ruin Not long.
mental ruin
What I find tough about applying to lots at once is the cover letter process - I'm always inclined to alter it on a studio by studio basis, but this takes time
ashen lynx
Can't take more than 15 minutes per piece though.
mental ruin
While you mention the CV actually of the one and only project I've worked on that I've included in my CV, need I list it as unreleased? Or should I keep that quiet?
tidal moth
I honestly hate writing cover letters, and I think you should only do it if you have something to say
writing it for the sake of writing it can give a worse impression than otherwise
mental ruin
@tidal moth Most forms I've seen feature it only as an optional field
I agree entirely
tidal moth
there are maybe 3 studios in the world I would consider writing cover letters for
red crater
@lilac walrus While im under the assumption you've already got a robust CV, do you not have any personal projects/work you can show interviewers?
@north plover i'm looking to get into game design, have worked in QA on 3 different games but i don't think that'll be enough so ive been building a game-dev portfolio
tidal moth
but then I have experience etc. so that comes first regardless
ashen lynx
Also, forms, application systems shmystems... always double up it both with mails and a call.
lilac walrus
@red crater - nope, I have little time for personal projects
north plover
projects in CV only make sense if they can google it or smth like this. If there are no information about it they have no clue what you did on this project and what the project is about so rather write your experience of the project
mental ruin
@ashen lynx Are you saying that along with my application I should be emailing/phoning them also?
ashen lynx
absolutely yes
mental ruin
God damn
mental ruin
An email wouldn't go amiss I suppose. Just to further express my interest and check they got my application, perhaps?
tidal moth
yeah a follow up email is fine
ashen lynx
Amounts of applications that go astray due to ending up in spam or web form screwing up are underestimated. Greatly.
tidal moth
just don't come across as annoying by bothering them too much
mental ruin
Yeah
Also should I be honest about my open nature regarding working full time/remote/as an intern particularly? I'm punching above my weight with some of these studios, and though that's evident from my CV and portfolio, I'd still like to pursue any chances I can
Though I understand not many studios offer internships so much any more?
mental ruin
I'm applying for an entry level/Junior Texture Artist role
tidal moth
interns are falling out of fashion for design since vocational design schools have started gaining traction
mental ruin
Yeah also I don't live near any studios. Not even remotely close. So moving for an internship is unwise.
ashen lynx
Not a role that needs internship, in my view.
mental ruin
Unless it were an extended period of time
Sure
I'm confident in my work, but getting into the industry is a bit of an abstract problem to me
tidal moth
also not many studios offer texture artist roles per se
mental ruin
Sorry to ask again, but for the sake of my CV - should I mention a past project I worked on was unreleased? Or should I omit this info. The state of the project was beyond my control and I don't think it's a very favourable factor
tidal moth
perhaps somethign like allegorithmic would be a better place
to look
and become a material artist
because apparently those people are all the rage
mental ruin
(Allegorithmic is precisely who I've applied to... 🙃 )
tidal moth
anything that hasn't been released you should add as unreleased
mental ruin
They were my first application, I sent my CV and details off 4 days ago for an advertised entry level Substance Source artist role.
I'm really hoping I hear back It's not gamedev, but it's exactly what I had in mind from a responsibilities perspective.
@tidal moth Gotcha.
ashen lynx
Well, good luck with that. You'd just want to put more perfectionism in texture work, rather than CVs and application process itself.
mental ruin
Sure. I've tried to put my portfolio front and centre in my application. It's frustrating because with each new personal piece I feel I'm making greater progress in my ability... so already I wish I had one particular material I'm working on finished so the team could see it!
And thank-you, of course. Fingers crossed.
I'm stressing over the fact I didn't include the country code in my mobile number... total oversight. My email's there though, that should be enough right?
😬
ashen lynx
They will use pigeon post, if needed. Don't worry.
red crater
@north plover in response to what you said about projects not being worth it on the CV. What if you have a video + technical blog post?
west sonnet
This sounds like a perfect excuse to email them
mental ruin
@west sonnet I considered this but didn't also want to confess to a fuck up and/or mask it as an opportunity to get in touch
ashen lynx
Also, I'd join Allegorithmic discord, to get a more spot on critique on your works. Surprised, that you aren't there.
mental ruin
But I mean... I guess that's exactly what it is
I should, you're right.
I've honestly found the response here to be most helpful so far. You're all very active (getbacktowork) and constructive.
plucky hatch
Just take every advice with a grain of salt. It is often "well it depends"...
But it is also the beauty of it.
We always hear stuff like you need a good looking 3d portfolio to get jobs.
Ive seen people get jobs with some pretty average portfolio.
One of them is currently a lead 3d generalist who still cant do subd modeling.
😒
fickle hatch
@plucky hatch does he need to do subd modelling as part of his everyday duties?
plucky hatch
There is room for different opinionson this subject. But I think that every 3d game artist (props, env, vehicles, scifi) should have a solid understanding of subd modeling and baking
fickle hatch
Yes, but it wasn't about the subject, more about the specific duties of his 😄
remote saffron
does anyone know a good filtered list of reasonable game dev companies 🤔 ?
plucky hatch
define reasonable?
remote saffron
proved company with acceptable salary and work environment
dense isle
most of the big companies , I guess
lilac walrus
reasonable is subjective, but I don't think there's any real list out there
gamedevmap is something one can look at, I guess
narrow scaffold
😓 another rejection ...
dense isle
keep trying
vast acorn
reasonable... #chinaoutcompetes
plucky hatch
@narrow scaffold
I recently applied to 300+ jobs.
A few phone interview.
Fewer interviews.
Some bad matches from random recruitment agencies.
Just keep moving forward.
I applied for a Front End Dev job that supposedly included sone html, css and some 3d. it was a really weird job. So I asked the guy what the job was about. He kept using the word drawing. I asked would I be designed the UI? not really. Do I have to design the buttons? No we have a graphic designer gor this. Then do we organice the layout of those menus? no some else does it. Oky. Do I have to code the UI? No. Then what is this job about? you have to plug the buttons to the right machine. What? That is a job? Where is the 3d? well the image is in 3D. But we arent doing right? No.
😒
narrow scaffold
thanks even thought they rejected me i at least now have an idea of what kind of questions get asked and can study those to perform better next time
plucky hatch
yeah
broken hollow
@plucky hatch Yo, which positions do you normally apply for?
plucky hatch
Game designer / Combat designer / Game balance specialist
Level designer / Technical Designer
3D artist / Hard Surface Artist (vehicles, guns, robots, etc.)
Assistant Producer / Producer / Project manager
Front-End Dev (web)
Programmer Analyst
Recruiter
From top to bottom is by experience.
pastel estuary
@inner holly survey posting without permission from the Admin is a nono
pastel estuary
hmm, I remember it being a rule. cc: @tawny kayak
elder mist
• No links, pitches or feedback requests for products outside of #work-in-progress and #released. If you do not follow this rule your message will be deleted without notice and you will be issued an Infraction. (The No Spam rule still applies, if you are sharing links to your products this does not give you the right to mass spam them.)
iirc that fall in that category, no surveys in general
tawny kayak
@elder mist That rule is for products, not surveys or links in general.
@pastel estuary We don't have a rule that explicitly forbids posting surveys without admin permission.
vernal wolf
i guess a survey is a feedback request
broken hollow
@plucky hatch What kind of interviews did you have lately? 
I am curious cause I was wondering what kind of questions they ask for level design positions.
tender quartz
Hi 👋 just noticed this very interesting room here, career chat, is this new?
west sonnet
no
tender quartz
Well I haven’t been on Unreal slackers for quite a few months, so that makes sense
Or maybe it was always here and I never noticed it before
plucky hatch
@broken hollow
Open world game.
What makes gameplay better?
Fast traveling or web swinging?
And... why????
broken hollow
interesting
plucky hatch
The answer can reveal more about the person AND her understanding of gameplay.
plucky hatch
@broken hollow
i won't say much about interviews, simply because im in the middle of something 😛
broken hollow
that's alright
plucky hatch
And anything you say online can get you in trouble 😛
All it takes is one influent person, wrong place, wrong time who misinterpret your line
and you are done
😎 I know from experience
tender quartz
Best of luck to you all in pursuing your professional dreams
I’ve been freelancing for the last 9 months and now want to climb the next rung in the ladder
Any freelancers here aspiring to a higher position?
plucky hatch
as a freelancer, can't you just suddenly increase your rates?
flat gazelle
What do you mean? Do you want to transition to studio work? As a freelancer you are already the top dog :)
tender quartz
appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm way down on the totem pole
for me freelancing gigs on fiverr was like the first rung of the ladder of this game
flat gazelle
I meant, as a freelancer you are your own boss. No ladder to climb. If that's your thing, then you have to produce better stuff, build your brand and charge more. No promotions to grab.
tender quartz
ultimately I want my own art out there, my own vision, not anybody elses
flat gazelle
Then you either need to run your own studio, or climb within a studio to Art Director.
So I'd say pick the one that seems most fun. Both are extreme amounts of work.
tender quartz
sage advice
I really used freelancing as a way to get paid to learn on the job
now though I feel like I know enough to start creating original content
and even in freelancing there are levels to the game, fiverr not being very high
flat gazelle
Yeah I never considered fiverr when I was freelancing.
But as a freelancer, you have even less say in the direction of the game and art.
As you are hired to do a certain job
tender quartz
What in your opinion is the best freelancing platform?
flat gazelle
Never used one. I lived off recommendations and network
tender quartz
Word of mouth is no doubt a very powerful & persuasive method
Just trying to level up in this game, it’s a fascinating journey I must say
tidal moth
sounds very buzzwordy
tender quartz
Words buzz, like bees
raven raft
Is anyone game designer here?
tidal moth
why do you ask?
tender quartz
@raven raft who isn’t?
flat gazelle
I'm not
lilac walrus
I would suggest a large number of people in here are not designers
pastel estuary
im designing something, and ive designed some gamejam games (and won), but nothing so far that imho proves I can call myself an actual game designer yet.
broken hollow
So I have a level design art test for a studio, what are some things I should expect? Like what are some mistakes I can potentially avoid?
I dont want to screw this up 😬
broken hollow
yeah, this position is specifically for detail focusing in level design so they want to see my skills in lighting, particle effects, decorations and all that jazz
its kind of a mix of both
tidal moth
you either have an art test or you have a level design test
you do not have both
level design has nothing to do with art
or lighting or particles or decorations
pastel estuary
while true, converting level design/grayboxing to art, and guiding the player trough focus points, lighting, color, and other points of interest..
tidal moth
unless you're some magical hybrid of the two, this is usually resolved during production. for better or worse art now sits on the majority of those topics
pastel estuary
true, but also depends on the size of the team
in indie form you often have to wear multiple hats
tidal moth
yeah but my point is that you're not doing LD work by doing decorations exclusively
or lighting
or whatever else that goes on top of the greybox
pastel estuary
i guess coming from a mapper background both where more mixed back in the day
tidal moth
if you're not at the least combining it with some level of gameplay, it's not LD
back in the day it was different
but it did split back some 15 years ago or so when source started rolling out
when you could do everything in bsp there was no need for an environment artist
west sonnet
They may be in a situation where they need to wear multiple hats but it should be noted that it’s just that. Multiple hats. Lest they get taken advantage of. Simply because they cannot distinguish the roles.
pastel estuary
again that depends on the team.
Even 10 years ago it was still a thing where I had to do bits of both.
I do agree that nowadays its split up generally, but in smaller teams there are odds where you'd need to do both.
regardless, both are generally a different task during a test.
qwert might need to iterate a bit more hehe
tidal moth
again, the definition of an LD is gameplay first, not art first
that is all
regardless of what a team is or isn't doing with the role
but this misconception is one of my pet peeves, and it doesn't help that even here it's propagated to be something it is not
like in the #level-design channel
pastel estuary
i remember I had to design a layout that was solely guided by light and particles btw :p
west sonnet
Ay. Level designers have nothing to do with art. If they're in such a situation in which they're decorating the level, that's outside of the scope of the role. I'd expect a pay raise if that crap was dumped on me
tidal moth
I once created an asset that made it into a game as well, as a level designer
doesn't change the definition
plucky hatch
The answer strongly depends on the studio culture.
Even just recently I saw Epic Games Montreal post some LD jobs with a focus on placing meshes and add lighting.
Not sure how accurate the job description was, but it was that
pastel estuary
im not saying at all i disagree with you, but I could see a job thats between level design and env art.
plucky hatch
Same for Bethesda MTL
west sonnet
It's a red flag
plucky hatch
I don't know why it would be a red flag.
pastel estuary
id say more info is needed before we can state red flags
plucky hatch
Some people are actually used to this
Hourences grew up doing both LD and Art, he kept doing it years after
pastel estuary
thatll never change hehe
west sonnet
can't go wrong with hourly 😛
plucky hatch
But the way Hourences works, it would not fit well with most modern studios, I believe.
Like he just creates props that are likely to be a good fit lmao
To quickly build a level
He just knows what he needs
pastel estuary
basically indie stuff, and that guy does have an insane brain on his shoulders
plucky hatch
I don't think it's really indie, it's just... a fast way to work
so his focus is on producing a game fast and less on making it SUPER AAA
pastel estuary
he was writing books on archaic pre-smartphone phones hehe
plucky hatch
it is still AAA
in my book at least
but if you want to burn my book, have fun
😛
XD
@pastel estuary rofl
I actually read his level design books out of curiosity, they were actually good
for what they were
pastel estuary
:p i got a signed copy, and he was dazed by me just taking it and not paying for it.
west sonnet
Dirty thief 😛
pastel estuary
gave him a copy of the game we worked on a few years later, as he lost his
anyways, iow. you might wanna be sure what the test is all about @broken hollow :p
broken hollow
design test;art test whatever, my point still stands
plucky hatch
I did 1 level design test. Never gave it back. Still got the job. 
I'm still amused by the fact that they still give tests today.
I'm sure everyone has mixed opinions about those tests
If you are unemployed looking for work, you certainly don't have time to do 20
job hunting alone already takes so much time with all companies now that require you to create an account and fill their templates
west sonnet
Lamenting on your woes contributes to absolutely nothing for this individual
Here's a very tentative playlist Qwert. As I'm sure you're already well verse in visual composition and the pipeline. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBi3xvwvY3dncU0vlOi7gov3AFmXhRTOm
tidal moth
what was your point?
broken hollow
Oh yeah polygon academy is the best
But my test wont comprise of building a scene since they will be the ones providing
nova tartan
My company does test questions because their are scam artists out there who will misrepresent their abilities very convincingly and it costs tens of thousands of dollars to correct the mistake if we hire such a person
broken hollow
@plucky hatch for such design tests, you can use whatever engine you prefer, right?
vocal meadow
Likely will be up to the company
tender quartz
Who is the legendary Hourences you hold in such high regard?
flat gazelle
Sjord de jong
tender quartz
Oh yes I know Sjoerd, ibe heard this distinguished gentleman speak on a number of occasions
plucky hatch
'evangelist' wow
flat gazelle
nova tartan
yeah evangelist is a real job
a lot of speakers at amazon conferences and stuff have that job title
they are software/service hype crew
fickle hatch
It's an industry-specific word for a job that exists in other industries too under other names
plucky hatch
Could be Creative Specialist.
fickle hatch
What could be?
flat gazelle
Gather round everyone, it's redefenition time again 😄
pastel estuary
west sonnet
pastel estuary
I am so annoyed that I cannot find a popcorn salesguy gif going "get yo popcorn!"
plucky hatch
@fickle hatch
Greg Brown used to be Creative Specialist at the Foundry.
He used to present/sell MODO. And be in touch with the community, pretty much all the time online outside work hours.
He would promote Modo in videos, show stuff, he would present the app at conferences to users and companies.
He would take feedback and give it to the modo dev team
directly
A direct line of communication between devs and users
pastel estuary
to keep with the redefinition thing
sounds like a community manager :p
tawny kayak
Yeah that's the role community managers fill today.
dense heath
or a common salesperson in the old days
fickle hatch
That's really what it all just sounds like to me
A fancy title for a good ol' sales person
plucky hatch
It's someone who comes to your business and show you how to use MODO
and sell it
and engage with the community for feedback
CREATIVE SPECIALIST
scarlet bloom
Ok so I recently completed a project for the company I work for. It’s my first full time job out of college and I’ve only been there about 2 months. I’m not really happy with it. There are so many things I know I could have done better. My boss pulled me aside today and told me how much he loved what I put out. SO WHY DO I STILL FEEL LIKE CRAP? How do you guys deal with it and resist the urge to scrap every line and start over.
plucky hatch
Because it's production work.
If it was your hobby you could take all the time you need to reach high quality if that's what you seek
But on a prod, you have deadlines
It needs to be good ENOUGH
And you move to the next thing
You got a full product to ship
That's why artists are starting to cut a lot of corners by using rounded edge shaders, Zbrush -> smooth low poly to round edges, etc
The high quality goes to the hero assets
what is in your face all the time
the guns, the characters, etc.
scarlet bloom
So basically as long as my boss and the client (we don’t make games) are happy then I shouldn’t worry about it
plucky hatch
if you notice, a lot of games have multiplayer maps that arent that great.
But it's better to have 10-15 maps than 3 good ones