#career-chat | Unreal Source | Page 69

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

They needed a recruiter who could deal with programmers, designers and artists for a specific branch within their big company.

lilac walrus Sep 13, 2019, 9:03 PM

#

Yes - they need a recruiter. First priority is people with recruitment related skills, secondary is knowledge about those roles.

If you apply for a technical design position with me and send me a CV with zero TD experience but tell me how great you are at ballet dancing, making sushi, and rollerskating, chances are you're going to get overlooked for another candidate

#

I mean, portfolio is important, but so is tailouring your application to the position at hand

#

you may not have direct experience in that role, but you could at least justify why ballet / sushi / rollerskating and your outside experience might make you a good fit, alongside this other more tangible experience you have

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 9:12 PM

#

Im pretty sure I know why they went for a more HR-oriented candidate.

#

And some people will hate it. lol...

#

Especially HR people. 🤣

#

If you want to build a Canadian team for anything you need someone who has done it before AND has a knack for spotting talent. One doesnt go without the other.

#

you need domain knowledge

#

And if you are a coach you also know how to help them grow

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

How is this even related?

#

o.o

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 9:41 PM

#

There are jobs for specialists
Some for generalists
And some jobs require a multi-specialist.

#

Level design, coaching, recruiting or designing interactive UI interfaces are some of those multi-specialist jobs.
But funny enough, most companies are willing to pay a programmer 45-120k
But only willing to pay a multi-specialist 25-65k. Because...?

#

just had another interview where I've been told oh your background perfectly matches the profile that we are looking for.
Art, coding and design. Great.
But it pays 18.00$ per hour

#

https://tenor.com/view/stinky-vince-vaughn-gag-gif-4550323

Tenor

Vince Vaughn smells something - Stinky

▶ Play video

#

And the person adds ''web devs (code, art and design -> wasn't referring to web programmers exclusively) are really hard to find these days and there is a huge demand for it''

#

When I started working as a level designer, we weren't even called that. We were filthy low level integrators. Was just a way to underpay us.

#

Pretending that ''Game Designer'' was the promotion.
But it's a different job... rofl

#

We'll talk about how the portfolio matters and yet, the recruiters will be completely ignoring the guy who is either a student or past employee, doesn't have a job, need one and the recruiters will be harassing Seniors in X studio around even if they never applied or even have a portfolio. alex

vernal wolf Sep 13, 2019, 10:11 PM

#

if you have a provable senior title you are definitely more likely to be recruiter bait regardless of portfolio

#

people proven they can do work over time are innately more valuable and a safer risk for recruiters to earn their commission

#

if you don't have proof you can do work over time, build a portfolio

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 10:13 PM

#

That's nice on paper, I really wouldn't agree nor support such theory.

#

But, if that's what you believe in yourself. That's all good.

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 10:15 PM

#

Tbh as long as I get hired I dont care what the reason is 😄

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 10:15 PM

#

There are Seniors because they work fast and produce crappy work. But that leaves a good impression on people hire up
There are Seniors because the company just like to reward anyone who sticks around with them for years.

#

Or ''friends'' of ''friends''

vernal wolf Sep 13, 2019, 10:17 PM

#

Thats exactly how I earned my title

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 10:17 PM

#

lol

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 10:44 PM

#

If a recruiter started making calls on technical ability on any of my applicants, I would have them removed Real fast.

#

Not even close to being their call

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 10:54 PM

#

That's not what Im saying.
Why split the job into two?

#

If you can have 1 for it.

#

At the moment, it's almost like recruiters are actually just finding potential candidates and leads or directors are splitting time between prod and recruiting.
Why not just put a former dev doing the recruiting?
Same way we have former athletes coaching

#

Food for thoughts. 🍌

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:18 PM

#

Because then we'd need one recruiter per speciality.

#

The recruiter is a link and a very early filter. I highly doubt there are ex devs who know exactly what I need for my team as well as the concept people and engine coders.

#

Let the recruiter handle the recruiting part and the experts the evaluation.

#

Not only would they need senior or above experience in all fields they recruit for, they also need to be up to speed with the needs of the projects at the time of recruitment. If not, they are less efficient than the standard setup.

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

"Because then we'd need one recruiter per speciality."
Why not. I think that would be great.

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

So if you do find that unicorn, throw all the money at them

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

Matter of the fact is I believe you'd still have recruiters even with the setup your propose

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

Sure, but very expensive and wasteful as not all departments are recruiting at the same time

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

simply due to the fact that whoever you hire would only have a limited amount of time

#

they would then need to do all the functionality a recruiter + senior do

#

i.e. spam people on linked in, figure out what the project needs are, interview the candidates, follow through with the hiring process etc etc

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

XD

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:29 PM

#

kind of defeats the purpose, since you'd need multiple of them still to get the same speed/efficiency out of

#

might aswell stick to how its done now 🤷

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

Pros and cons.

#

If you have a massive business sure

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

I can see it working for say indies, which I believe already do that

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

if you have a smaller studio, maybe not

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

I've never seen a recruited work for an indie before (doesnt mean there arent, just never seen em)

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

Same

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:30 PM

#

I didnt mean Indie I meant...

#

Like Ubisoft vs Id Software

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:31 PM

#

They're both triple A

#

🤷

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:31 PM

#

Ubisoft runs tons of projects

#

Id Software run 1-3?

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:31 PM

#

no, they own tons of smaller studios

#

and each of those smaller studios have their own processes afaik

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:31 PM

#

Local recruitment teams

#

Yes

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:31 PM

#

Im seeing some nice recruitment companies for games popping up

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

Eh, nice is a relative word.

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

Cv harvesters :p

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

On the other hand, if we just focus on who we know we get like.. games made by polcyounters

#

lol

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

Anyhow, long story short, hire me 😄

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

hahahaha

#

Good plug

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

😎

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

Nope

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

damn it

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

XD

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

I'm not hiring atm :D

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

Im not a tech artist anyway sadly ;-;

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

I mean, as much as Im not all happy about friends recruiting friends. It's not something you can get rid of.
It's kind of part of being humans

#

For better or worse

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:33 PM

#

There's nothing wrong with that tbh

#

I know I would recruit some of my friends if I ever make a studio

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

Well, in a way yes.

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

but not some others

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

Because you have people that work for studios, and students
ANd openings end up being filled by people from other studios and not students

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:34 PM

#

Doesn't have to be directly related 🤷

#

I dont think that relates though

#

if you need interns you will hire students

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

Less risk. If I have shipped a game next to someone, I already know if it'll be a good fit. No need to waste a probation period on an unknown then

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

if you dont then you wont 🤷

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

@mystic hull The thing is you might hire people from other countries now too... video games are international

#

Students waiting..

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:35 PM

#

How is that a bad thing .-.

#

The tech industry in general is very heavy on show-off nowadays

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

Students not finding work, trying to survive, end up leaving games

#

Devs layed off, same

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

Well, I don't see how that relates to our subject 🤷

#

I'm a little lost now

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

Friends recruiting friends

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

Mediocre students, sure. The good ones find work.

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

Your friend could be a relative who's a student

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

Sure

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

And yeah that, its insanely competetive over here 😄

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:37 PM

#

But if you look at game dev or esports, you'll notice... that pro gamers by example keep their circle closed. they do NOT WANT NEW COMERS

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

Woah woah

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

A student with the skills of a senior is a bargain as they are cheaper. Worth the risk

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

I am really involved in esports and follow closely

#

and can tell you that is faar from the truth

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

Right? Go train with Rapha. You'll catch up fast. A few weeks.

#

Nah

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

They're not obligated to train you really, no idea who Rapha is

#

but if you take a look at the DotA2 pro community

#

There's a whole industry going

#

on pros coaching noobs

#

Some pros actually got there through doing just that

#

Talent, too

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:40 PM

#

I scrimmed on several games and from personal experiences, trust me they keep it closed.

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:40 PM

#

Hmmm

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:40 PM

#

A student with the skills of a senior is a bargain as they are cheaper. Worth the risk
@flat gazelle I see most things are risk vs reward in the hiring process hmm? 🤔

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:40 PM

#

Yes

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:40 PM

#

Pro teams want their teams to win

#

Their life, their career

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:41 PM

#

Closed esport circles mean short game life-spans

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:41 PM

#

They'll scrim with another strong team

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:41 PM

#

I'm pretty damn sure nobody want that

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:41 PM

#

they wont waste time training new comers

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:41 PM

#

There's a clear distinction between training & coaching

#

or competing & growing the community

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:41 PM

#

When Ive fought for the headcount I'll make damn sure it's filled with the best possible candidate.

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:42 PM

#

you don't have to do both, and they're not exclusive of eachother

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:42 PM

#

What Im getting at is if you are starting in a new discipline, you learn a lot faster when surrounded by stronger candidates

#

Doesn't matter if it's esports or game dev, art or programming or design

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:42 PM

#

Yep

mystic hull Sep 13, 2019, 11:42 PM

#

That much is true, though you gotta earn your way there 😛

#

7 billion humans on this planet

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:43 PM

#

But that costs the company time

#

Cheaper to hire someone who is already proven

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:43 PM

#

WHen I got into 3D I surrounded myself with artists I admired, asked questions a few times here and there, but you got to grind the social ladder too
You need to put in the work, show them you took their advice, trained, learned. And eventually you reach a point where you can help them too with certain problems

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:43 PM

#

Same as internships are usually a net loss

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:43 PM

#

That whole social grinding is real

#

Just curious. Would it be true to say that the bigger the industry gets the more difficult it gets to find talent?

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:45 PM

#

No

#

Not in my field

#

Much easier these days

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:47 PM

#

Interesting

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:49 PM

#

There's a serious lack of people in my area, so any above average students get snatched straight out of school.

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:51 PM

#

Technical artists or VFX specifically?

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:51 PM

#

Vfx

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:53 PM

#

Whenever I hear VFX, I think about particles. (smoke, attacks, destruction, etc.)
Are there other things?

#

maybe VFX differs a bit between games and films?

#

Im guessing, there is physics, fluids, etc.

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:54 PM

#

You are right on both accounts

#

Vfx in games is pretty much fx tds in film

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:55 PM

#

Would that include like... the detective vision in Batman Arkham too?

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:55 PM

#

Could do

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:55 PM

#

That's wild.

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:56 PM

#

Lots of overlap with tech art

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:56 PM

#

Yeah, that's why I wasn't sure what VFX contains

#

I guess, we shouldn't always put everything into a single box either so..

#

overlapping is good

#

Like if you are going to work on a new game project
How does that work for you?
Do you know like...
Hmmm we'll need footstep VFX, landing VFX, hit impact VFX, etc

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:58 PM

#

Yeah that comes with experience

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:58 PM

#

Did you create the Glad-Particle yet... oh

#

Is your name intentional?

#

O_o

flat gazelle Sep 13, 2019, 11:59 PM

#

We may never know

plucky hatch Sep 13, 2019, 11:59 PM

#

XD

#

I thought it was your real name.

#

And then realized the word play

#

And I feel like super stoopid now

#

hahhahahaa

mystic hull Sep 14, 2019, 12:01 AM

#

Are you actually an artist? @plucky hatch

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 12:03 AM

#

I've never been comfortable calling myself an artist.
So... I'd say no.

#

Like if you give me a cool concept art, I would love to reproduce it in 3D with great fidelity.
But I wouldn't necessarily create scenes in 3D by myself just for fun

#

That's not where my creativity works.

#

If you match me with a concept artist, good team

#

If I have to do both. Not a good fit.

#

@mystic hull
Personally, I think people should explore who they are as designer, programmer and artist.
Understand what they are and make a more informed decision about what kind of career would better fit them

#

I didnt know I could be an artist and a programmer.
At all. I forced myself to do it until it became a thing.

#

It's like discovering new parts of yourself you had no idea were even there

#

--
The most accurate answer that I could provide is I'm a combat designer
Who, over the years, added skills to my belt to become more and more independent creatively during my free time.
So the challenge was just to break my creative barriers.

#

That included adding level design, 3D modeling, rigging, 3d anim, coding

#

But good luck finding jobs as a combat designer specifically...

humble olive Sep 14, 2019, 12:26 AM

#

@plucky hatch that sounds like a technical designer

#

it's a great job

#

https://technicalgamedesign.blogspot.com/2012/07/what-is-technical-game-designer.html

What is a technical game designer?

I've started this blog over a year and a half ago, but I never really explained where it takes its name from. So what's a technical gam...

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 12:28 AM

#

alex That's what I used to do.

#

I see a few game designer 3C jobs popping up, who knows kappaross

mystic hull Sep 14, 2019, 1:03 AM

#

@plucky hatch Perfectly agree with that, I tried art, always wanted to have some sort of reliable artistic skill(s) but failed miserably 😄

#

I'm apparently just better suited for problem solving & network programming 🤷

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 1:18 AM

#

This might be a bit philosophical, but I do believe that everyone exist to fullfil a specific range of tasks.

#

And I don't think we can really know that range unless we try hard enough.

#

Some friends and family thought I did everything I did out of love. No man, I really forced myself (hated it) to learn 3D and programming until I started to enjoy it, unvoluntarily.

#

Almost like... becoming able to express yourself in new ways.

tidal moth Sep 14, 2019, 4:20 PM

#

aren't you that skilljutsu guy?

flat gazelle Sep 14, 2019, 4:30 PM

#

The esports angle did feel familiar

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 6:17 PM

#

@tidal moth
I doubt that's very important.

west sonnet Sep 14, 2019, 6:18 PM

#

Your reputation proceeds you. For good or ill.

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

I'd rather use the word ''online presence''.

#

🤡

mystic hull Sep 14, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

same thing 🤷

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 6:20 PM

#

Definitely not.

mystic hull Sep 14, 2019, 6:20 PM

#

same practical use? 😛

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 6:20 PM

#

if you were to work with me VS what I do or say online.
Two different universes...

#

But if you believe they are the same thing.
Hey, who doesn't like surprises?

#

😂

mystic hull Sep 14, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

You have a weird definition of things 🤔

#

Pretty sure to me (the average online user), your reputation is your online presence 🤷

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

You do realize that it's all a game.
I don't behave the same here.
I don't behave the same in other gaming servers.
I don't behave the same in my server
I don't behave the same at home
And I certainly do not behave the same at work

#

But... wherever I go, it sure will be memorable.

#

😂

mystic hull Sep 14, 2019, 6:23 PM

#

I do realize that to me I only care about what I see, as opposed to what I can not/will probably never see 🤷

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 6:23 PM

#

(joke)

mystic hull Sep 14, 2019, 6:23 PM

#

Should be applicable to everyone xD

#

And I actually thought

#

you were serious there lol

plucky hatch Sep 14, 2019, 6:24 PM

#

Usually, everything I say*has multiple meanings.

#

More fun...

#

Just saying, if you are going to paint people as something based on what you read on Facebook, Twitter, Discord, etc.

#

You are going to get a really distorted picture.

#

Communication in writing has always been bad.

#

You cant see the person's face, how she move, what she does, what she feels, can't hear her tone, etc

#

Hell, just ask that person to join the Voice Chat and you'll perceive a completely different person

#

And the you go oh I better understand now why she was talking X way

#

Fits the tone

#

Hell, I worked at Call Centre just recently and there was that guy, I thought he was really rude at first.

#

Until I heard more of him. Was sitting right next to him

#

Took me almost a week to really get the whys of his tone.

#

He was just trying to close the deal fast, stressing the urgency of the matter

#

He was actually nice.

dire grail Sep 15, 2019, 4:55 AM

#

333333333

formal birch Sep 16, 2019, 1:56 AM

#

this is a bit embarrassing to ask and i don't know if this goes here but
i got an interview coming up for a game studio and i don't know what to wear :I
yes, this is my first time.
i heard some people say go formal and wear suits, but i've heard some also said just go for formal casual attire

plucky hatch Sep 16, 2019, 2:17 AM

#

Don't wear shorts.
Jeans are fine.
Don't wear headphones.

#

If you wear something fancier, it's fine. Depending on who is doing the interview, it might even be better...

📎 image.png

#

That said, I did go at an interview with shorts and headphones and got the job anyway.

#

alex

formal birch Sep 16, 2019, 2:24 AM

#

Hahaha nice

#

alright, so casual formal?

west sonnet Sep 16, 2019, 2:25 AM

#

Go for business casual. The team aren't going to keen to work with a slob sure, but they most definitely won't want a pretentious individual as far as first (visual) impressions go.

formal birch Sep 16, 2019, 2:27 AM

#

Alright, thanks for the answers 😄

neat halo Sep 16, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

I went to my interview full suit and tie. I got two offers :V

plucky hatch Sep 16, 2019, 3:50 AM

#

Personally, I would probably expect something along those lines for an interview. Something a little bit fancier than casual, but still casual.

📎 cn13340403.png

#

I would find it really weird if the guy shows up is if you was going to purchase and lead the company...

📎 dd82be8d3f12effe30dbf1c4507a3c0c.png

#

just saying...

formal birch Sep 16, 2019, 4:03 AM

#

hahahaha that's true :p

keen moat Sep 16, 2019, 4:04 AM

#

Hello Guys,
I want to know is there any price range for youtube sponsoring video? for example what's the good price for an overview in a channel with 12K subs?

tidal moth Sep 16, 2019, 11:52 AM

#

that's a great question for a forum that specializes in youtube

#

I don't think anyone here does

runic ledge Sep 16, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

@keen moat You probably wont get any sponsors with 12K and only the subscriber count doesn't say enough to judge an actual price range

#

It depends on how active the viewers are, where they are from, their interests. And it also depends on the sponsor, what they are focusing on, etc.

#

You wouldn't see GameStop sponsor a makeup channel, would you?

pale yacht Sep 16, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

this

daring parrot Sep 16, 2019, 10:04 PM

#

to yesterday's question, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone interviewing in a suit and tie unless the company suggests otherwise

#

sure it might be out of place, but more likely to be viewed neutrally than dressing down too far 😉

patent mountain Sep 17, 2019, 1:00 AM

#

how about shaved vs unshaved

#

if my beard is full it means im hard at work and dont have time to shave, but will the interviewer get it?

tall garnet Sep 17, 2019, 1:06 AM

#

So many devs with beards, it doesn't matter.

daring parrot Sep 17, 2019, 1:14 AM

#

Well groomed regardless of beard length

keen moat Sep 17, 2019, 1:50 AM

#

@runic ledge Actually I don't own a channel but I want to sponsor a video to make a tutorial base on my project, that channel views are very different for each video depends on the topic

torpid whale Sep 17, 2019, 9:37 AM

#

@formal birch Where at bud?

formal birch Sep 17, 2019, 10:23 AM

#

@torpid whale local dev here at indo, why?

torpid whale Sep 17, 2019, 12:29 PM

#

just interested 😉

plucky hatch Sep 17, 2019, 4:28 PM

#

cant decide to expand my UE4 or Unity knowledge

#

ah well

acoustic anvil Sep 17, 2019, 4:29 PM

#

meh, don't let indecision block you

#

pick anyone right now, knowledge gained in one can translate somewhat in the other anyway, no knowledge because you didn't start won't 😉

fickle hatch Sep 17, 2019, 4:35 PM

#

Man, it was so simpler 20 years ago

#

You could just answer "write your own engine" as a reasonable advice

peak matrix Sep 17, 2019, 6:15 PM

#

Hi i have this error: ERROR: No 32-bit compiler toolchain found in C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\VC\bin\cl.exe

#

now i tryng to compile 32bit

#

help me please

#

64bit and 32bit windows are this problem

📎 unknown.png

#

@plucky hatch @plucky hatch

plucky hatch Sep 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

#

..

peak matrix Sep 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

#

can you help me?

plucky hatch Sep 17, 2019, 6:18 PM

#

lol: Users/Hackers haha

peak matrix Sep 17, 2019, 6:18 PM

#

yes haahahah

#

im not hacker

#

xd

#

my pc username

plucky hatch Sep 17, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

Dont think I can give an optimal solution for it..

peak matrix Sep 17, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

there are an solution?

shut tree Sep 18, 2019, 6:34 AM

#

mine is user/abuser

livid grotto Sep 18, 2019, 12:50 PM

#

hello can someone help me with estimating cost for a level design so i can give a quote to a company?

hybrid phoenix Sep 18, 2019, 12:52 PM

#

Just ask, what're you wondering?

livid grotto Sep 18, 2019, 1:27 PM

#

@hybrid phoenix well, they want a quote for a level design, high quality nature, i have my own material setups, textures and plants but i am not sure im going to use them because i think they are after a more cartoonish style. also i will place on the landscape buildings to form a small village (assets that other people make) i have to give a quote asap, been trying to figure out a price 2 days now. it will be used for an animation short and possibly for a feature film, if they find the quality meets their standards. i havent done this before and i dont know what price to ask. i will be working as a freelancer from my office

hybrid phoenix Sep 18, 2019, 1:28 PM

#

Take a realistic hourly rate (which is to say, don't you dare go under $20/h, it's ruining the industry), multiply that by the amount of hours you expect to work on this, then multiply that by at least 1.5x, and that's a good starting point

#

If you're a good candidate and they're a good client, they'll find that reasonable, if they don't find that reasonable, either you're not good enough or you should be glad that they don't want to work with you, because their expectations are wrong

#

(Though, of course, this is all easier said than done)

livid grotto Sep 18, 2019, 1:30 PM

#

my main problem is i have hard time estimating time it will take me, also i how do i compensate in case they want changes after changes after changes? i deliver for the agreed price and then charge for changes?

hybrid phoenix Sep 18, 2019, 1:33 PM

#

You need to discuss what they want from you in terms of revisions

#

Then take that into account in your quote

#

(Or say "this price includes four hours of revision work" for instance)

#

And then for any more than that you can charge extra

livid grotto Sep 18, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

also i have done landscapes before for myself the way i liked them, but i havent done it for someone else. what could be called a realistic estimation of the time needed to make a nature landscape? like the ones in unreal marketplace for example

hybrid phoenix Sep 18, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

As for having a hard time estimating... That comes with experience

#

That really depends on the artist and the specifics

#

I personally tend to find my own landscapes higher-quality than the ones on the marketplace, but they also take me a lot longer than something lower-quality would

livid grotto Sep 18, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

thats nice, some of my landscapes are higher quality as well, than the ones on the marketplace. so how would you charge for a high quality landscape? give me a very rough price, that would help a lot

#

as a starting point

hybrid phoenix Sep 18, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

That depends on a lot of specifics

#

Just estimate the amount of days you expect to make

#

Doesn't have to be exact, and it's better to be too high than too low

#

If they don't like your quote, they can always ask for something lower

#

Which they should, unless your price is entirely out of their range, in which case, your price is entirely out of their range anyway

#

(Or they have a buttload of high-quality applicants. Which is, in my experience, unlikely)

livid grotto Sep 18, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

does 2k sound like a reasonable landscape price?

hybrid phoenix Sep 18, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

Doesn't sound unreasonable, depending on the situation

#

It depends on a massive amount of stuff, but 2k definitely isn't absurd

#

Depending on the situation it might also be way too little

livid grotto Sep 18, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

ok lets see how it goes

hybrid phoenix Sep 18, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

It's difficult 😛

livid grotto Sep 18, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

i know, it is difficult. thanks @hybrid phoenix

light radish Sep 18, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

The terms for changes and the terms of acceptance should be in the agreement.

tidal moth Sep 18, 2019, 11:05 PM

#

so level design wise, speaking as a level designer, is the second longest iteration process during a production cycle

#

the longest is the env art

#

depending on size of a level, implementation of gameplay can take from days to weeks to months

#

if they're after a basic landscape your costs are down probably, but any amount spent on iteration equals better quality

shut tree Sep 19, 2019, 6:50 PM

#

if i cant see you at work totally cant judge how much ur worth

hybrid phoenix Sep 19, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

The people he's offering to will see his work and can judge if he's worth it. What I said is just general stuff

plucky hatch Sep 19, 2019, 8:57 PM

#

@shut tree
I totally agree.

mystic hull Sep 19, 2019, 11:05 PM

#

(which is to say, don't you dare go under $20/h, it's ruining the industry),

#

Thank you. 😄

#

I've been cursed by the ridiculously low price competition almost my entire freelance career (not game related though)

plucky hatch Sep 21, 2019, 9:49 PM

#

What is more time consuming?
Art or programming?

#

The biggest bottleneck on a prod

#

Programming should come first.
Without it, there is no game

mystic hull Sep 21, 2019, 9:53 PM

#

I'd say art is just as important, they're indivisible as far as I can see it

#

unless you've got a REALLY genuine idea that can go without the art

elder mist Sep 21, 2019, 10:06 PM

#

except if you're not making a text rpg

north plover Sep 21, 2019, 10:11 PM

#

But the bottleneck is mostly the programming. If you see how the developing systems in art and programming department differs you can explain it best. Most of the parts of art is an waterfall model where you only run through a pipeline, where programming is usually most of the time an agile system where you have to iterate over and over again until the feature is finally implemented

elder mist Sep 21, 2019, 11:54 PM

#

@north plover yeah, unfortunately not many people aware that programming and art should have different pipelines/production cycles

tall garnet Sep 22, 2019, 1:16 AM

#

Not all companies waterfall their art past asset creation, often switching to agile for levels of quality / polish / revisions

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 2:36 AM

#

To be brutally honest, Im still amazed that we still use such methods lmao...

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:12 AM

#

What kinda methods would you suggest, @plucky hatch

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:17 AM

#

Don't you already know what to do??

#

Game dev is pretty straight forward

#

GD create a guide for the team
Here is the content
Here are the level
The features
Gameplay, etc

#

The level designer spends two weeks on a layout, placing his stuff, starts scripting
Artists take over, etc

#

Agile, waterfall, etc. Seems like business people coming into game dev trying to make sense of things.

#

Game dev teams do just fine without a producer to babysit

#

"I ran out of stuff to do''
''Great. Time to learn a new skill...''

north plover Sep 22, 2019, 11:23 AM

#

The most companies don't use an agile or waterfall system. Usually they use both in different states of everything and you can indeed use the one or the other in different circumstances and it's really important to do that. Even if you want to make a game by yourself or maybe with a friend at the point when you want to do it as your job you need money and if you need money you need to calculate how much time you need for your project to present it to a potential stakeholder. By differ between agile and waterfall system of work you can calculate in a basic way how long you will need and that's really important whenever you talk about money.
And if you ran out of stuff it's time to make anything from next sprint or even in the backlog before random learn everything 😉

tall garnet Sep 22, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

I've been on teams from 30 to 1200 people, producers are necessary at any size to make sure everybody is working in unison and there is no feature creep so the game actually ships.

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

I respect that. Obviously, producers have a role to fill like anyone else.
But we all have our opinions on this...
https://venturebeat.com/2018/08/14/former-artist-tells-how-naughty-dog-functions-without-middle-managers/
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/273911/Uncharted_4_and_the_impact_of_Naughty_Dogs_aversion_to_producers.php

#

On most projects I've worked, the lead game designer was already filling that role

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 3:32 PM

#

@plucky hatch, I do know what to do, but always seeking new ideas. Was more curious on what YOU think should be done 😄

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 3:33 PM

#

If you start a prod, you know you need to produce a First Playable Prototype. Unless it's done, you aren't done. So all you need to do is keep working until that's done.
There is no magical workflow that will help. All you need is a plan, that the GD's job to create it (game design docs).

#

Level designers are in charge of their levels, they also act as managers.

#

So you already have the lead designer doing management and level designers

#

And you have leads in every departments

#

That's a hell lot of managers already

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

There have to be people keeping track of where project is headed, even if they share other responsibilities 😄

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 3:36 PM

#

Yeah, the freaking lead designer

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 3:58 PM

#

Ah yes. Naughty Dog. The shining beacon of well structured production.

#

Not at all famous for crunch.

#

Maybe you should try working on a large team/project before teaching the people who do, what the best approach is? Perhaps there's a reason for some of the things you seem to condemn?

north plover Sep 22, 2019, 4:06 PM

#

I would say everybody should do it like he wants to do it. Even in smaller teams a producer can be helpful and some bigger teams don't want some producers. If you go through such an intense experience like game development there are a lot of roles to fill. Producers are a part of that and even if you don't think you need them at some point maybe you will think differently and vice versa

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

There can totally be too many production people. However, whithout production assistents or DDs or whatever you want to call them I'd never get any actual work done as I'd just be handling tasks, dependencies, bugs and planning

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 4:48 PM

#

If you have teams of more than 60 people, I definitely think it's useful to have producers on board.

#

Or... people filling more management roles

karmic kayak Sep 22, 2019, 4:50 PM

#

CV plus link to artstation (or similar) @mental ruin

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 4:50 PM

#

As I said earlier, it's not a is it right or is it wrong answer...

#

There are a lot of down times on prod here and there when people are waiting for something

karmic kayak Sep 22, 2019, 4:50 PM

#

folio is the most important part tho

#

imho

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 4:51 PM

#

If your producer can jump in and get his hands dirty every now and then. That's nice...

#

A producer that just sits there from 5pm to 11pm during crouch time

#

it's fucking lame

#

Enjoy the pay check...

#

or the pay raise after

#

or the bonuses

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 4:53 PM

#

Hi all!

I'm in the process of applying for jobs but have a few queries regarding the application process.

Do I include images from my portfolio in with my CV as well as providing a link to my ArtStation, or do I just include said web address?
My CV includes my name, the position I'm applying for, ArtStation URL, contact details, a personal description and skills/software proficiency. Anything else I'm missing?
Any tips on writing cover letters that will allow my application to stand out from the rest?

Thanks for any and all advice!

#

@karmic kayak Thanks!

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 4:54 PM

#

Sometimes it's best to not even send a cover letter...

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 4:54 PM

#

Don't mix up CVs, when applying to multiple entities. Pro tip.

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 4:55 PM

#

lolol

#

The cover letter could give them more reasons to not ask you for a first phone interview.

#

People judge everything.

#

I got a lot more interviews this year by not writing any cover letters

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 4:56 PM

#

In my cover letter I've explained why I want to work for each particular studio and more about me as a person, down to interests and activities

#

It's weird 'cos I seem to get conflicting advice regarding cover letters... some people say it's essential as it looks less like you're carpet bombing the industry with your CV and making more considered applications, where as the point you raise about skipping an interview also makes sense.

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 4:58 PM

#

Yeah, that's how it goes

#

Everyone has different experiences and contacts

#

Different people fill the roles of recruiters, etc.

#

You'll get different answers

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 4:59 PM

#

As an artist, I want employers to see my portfolio first and foremost. I figure sending a PDF CV with a URL is the best way to do this?

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:00 PM

#

Either way, Non, CV is not more than 5%-10% of successfully landing an interview.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:00 PM

#

Right. That's why I want them to see my work first.

#

What would you suggest then @ashen lynx ? Focus more on the cover letter and ensuring my portfolio is up to scratch?

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:01 PM

#

On paper...
Your portfolio speaks first.
If you worked for big companies, it's prestige bonus.
If you are referred by employees internally, that's a big plus.
If the leads, directors, recruiters, studio owner, etc want you on board... hey might be the best way to get a job, right?

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

I should probably mention - I have zero experience and will essentially be applying for a junior role. I have no credentials, qualifications or past prestige to mention. This is why I figure it's most important for an employer to see my work first.

urban stump Sep 22, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

Make a professional looking resume without artistic nonsense on it (like skill bars or whatever), then make awesome work and start networking. Sending your stuff out blindly doesn’t get you anywhere, you’re just spinning your wheels. When just starting out, you need to be able to talk to people, preferably in person.

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:03 PM

#

@mental ruin
Do you post work on polycount?
Can you get the mods to refer you?

#

Earthquake, etc

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:03 PM

#

Zero are you asking me out?

karmic kayak Sep 22, 2019, 5:03 PM

#

7.6/10 in Photoshop

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:03 PM

#

(Noted)

urban stump Sep 22, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

Getting someone to like you in person will get you leagues further than you would be otherwise if you just sent it out blindly. 100% of my jobs were because I was lucky enough to be able to talk to the recruiter or one of the leads face to face.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

I don't post on Polycount. I probably should. I'm active on ArtStation, here on Discord and Twitter, but have few connections

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:05 PM

#

I actually uhh, never got hired by sending a CV yet, I've always been invited into doing work by someone

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:05 PM

#

Hmmm. I don't live in great circumstances to be able to meet people in person right now. That is, I'm not in a city or around any industry landmarks.

urban stump Sep 22, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

Then you’ll be playing the recruitment game on hard mode.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

This is the dilemma - I always felt moving elsewhere in the hopes of meeting someone by chance or circumstance would be an enormous gamble.

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

@mental ruin getting picked up by someone would be a pretty good second line to pursuit. Networking and doing cool stuff, showing off cool things to cool people (including on here)

#

You can meet a ton of cool people online

#

And then even more cool people offline

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

Well while I'm at it Blackfox, and others, here's my work: https://www.artstation.com/nonplus

ArtStation

Non +

Textures/Materials Artist - Available for Work

#

I appreciate it's a little thin, and there are improvements to be made to particular materials and their presentation, but you get the idea of where I want to be.

urban stump Sep 22, 2019, 5:09 PM

#

It’s not bad but you might want to try and make some more complex materials if you’re going to be a SD specialist. Look at Daniel Tiger for instance.

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:09 PM

#

Some of it is really good, some of it needs more explanation

#

Like

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

I'm a fan of his works, though I must say his materials never evoke complexity, more just quality? Many are organic. Brilliant, nonetheless.

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

I would like to see an emphasis on what you did yourself - and if the answer is "everything", I want to see that emphasized (by showing elements of the workflow like your intermediate resources or such, just a glancing overview)

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

Literally everything.

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

Yeah, you should emphasize that

urban stump Sep 22, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

Organic things in SD are very hard to do, plus he shows a mastery of being able to practically sculpt in SD like it was ZBrush.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

Sure, I think the breakdown I have provided in my most recent PC Debris material is more like it, but I need that breakdown across the board...

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

Yup

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

@urban stump Right you are.

urban stump Sep 22, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

I will say though, good on you for not putting substance designer tutorials in your portfolio. I’m so tired of seeing that.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

Ha, thanks

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

I second that.

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:12 PM

#

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/e0dPaX did you make the pattern of the lions here? Did you derive it from some external source etc? This was the question that came to my mind, it's something that would be more easy to understand seeing some examples of the source assets and the "breakdown" of it

ArtStation

Glazed Bricks of the Ishtar Gate, Non +

The glazed bricks of the ancient Babylonian 'Ishtar Gate', featuring a bas-relief Lion. Made entirely within Substance Designer and rendered in Marmoset.
The aim was to recreate the bricks as they may have looked when they were built, around 575 BCE.
100% procedural.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:12 PM

#

Some of the older renders (and the church wall one) need work. They're too washed out. And including breakdowns would help a lot I agree.

#

@fickle hatch Made it all 100% in SD, no external images or source.

#

I should make some breakdown gifs of the heightmap process shouldn't I?

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:12 PM

#

I'm tempted to say that no.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:13 PM

#

I guess I'm underselling myself otherwise, as that one took a lot of work.

#

No Deathrey?

#

Regarding including breakdowns, is what I've done here appropriate, or do you want so see more?

#

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/gJ4Jg8

ArtStation

PC Debris, Non +

An old dump of scattered PC peripherals. This was made entirely in Substance Designer as an exercise in working with more complex height maps. I wanted to push my techniques in making 'hard surface' 'models' entirely out of textures, and push Substance's ability to stack and ...

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:15 PM

#

Seems fine to me

#

I enjoyed this one

#

The lions were just relevant to my work more so I'd value someone with a skill to do something like that, for example 😄

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:15 PM

#

Thing is.. that if the result is good, a breakdown won't add any benefit on top of it, but if the breakdown reveals something, that could be done (as perceived by reviewer) easier and faster, it will work against you.

#

PC debris texture speaks already quite well of you.

#

Get in your portfolio 2-3 textures, as detailed as possible, and what is more important, select something, that does not have analogues. Top it up with demonstrating ability to do sculpted ones, and consider yourself one foot in.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:18 PM

#

Sure BlackFox!

#

Thank-you Deathrey, that's really positive advice

#

Why I've refrained from including too many images in with my work in the past is because I'm wary of giving too much away about my process and also worrying about overwhelming people that view it

#

@ashen lynx When you say analogues, do you mean I should try more organic forms?

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:20 PM

#

Gotta find the right balance between showing the key things about yourself and not revealing too much for a variety of reasons

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:20 PM

#

And when you say 2-3 textures, do you mean in addition to what I have?

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:20 PM

#

Just.. something.. unique.. that only you and nobody else did.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:20 PM

#

Sure.

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

Yep, in addition, replacing your weaker ones.

plucky hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

Like a floor full of knees

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

Nothing derivative or done before. That's what I set out to do with the Ishtar Lions and the PC Debris Substance.

fickle hatch Sep 22, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

Oh I should re-create my blueprinting process in substance designer 😄

#

I came up with image processing to turn a B/W CAD drawing into a what looks like a copy left by a diazo chemical process

honest cipher Sep 22, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

2D procedural modelling in substance

#

damn

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:22 PM

#

Sure. I'd take out the Ogee Tiles for example, because that was more a 'doodle' done over two days anyway to be honest. It's not the best representation.

honest cipher Sep 22, 2019, 5:22 PM

#

get a houdini license for the guy XD

#

@mental ruin very cool stuff

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:22 PM

#

Thank-you @honest cipher ! I've tried Houdini a few times. It scares me. But I digress.

mystic hull Sep 22, 2019, 5:22 PM

#

Oui

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:23 PM

#

Thanks all for the advice. I'll refine and add to my work. I still want to apply for positions in the meantime, though - this shouldn't work against me, should it?

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:23 PM

#

You are on a pretty good track overall. Keep it up.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:24 PM

#

Thanks man, greatly appreciated!

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:36 PM

#

I'll put my hand up in favor of your approach with coverletter.

#

It doesn't have to be long. It just have to ensure me that you actually know what role you are applying for. It's more common than you might think to get applications that have no relevance at all and the cover letter is a quick way to find out.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:43 PM

#

@flat gazelle Interesting. What would you advise I include?

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:44 PM

#

What you do, why the studio is interesting, what you hope the role is/could be.

#

That sort of thing

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:44 PM

#

Sounds along the lines of what I have so far. Thanks!

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:44 PM

#

Yeah, it doesn't have to be complicated.

#

I've gotten applications without coverletter from people who clearly didn't know it was a games industry job. In a cover letter they could have specified that they were deliberately trying to move over to games because of X,Y and Z. as it were, they went in the trash instead.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:45 PM

#

I know it's almost another kettle of fish entirely, but would it be wise to apply for a position within the studio as well as working remote/freelance for an employer too? Or is it unlikely I'll be considered for the latter

#

Hah, good to know!

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:46 PM

#

Sounds like a thing you could add to the cover letter.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

Sure, that makes sense - I'll outline the possibility.

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

I'm interested in role X but I would also be open to Remote work for Y reason

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

but would it be wise to apply for a position within the studio as well as working remote/freelance for an employer too? Unlikely, yet possible. Was the case for me.

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

Yeah

#

Remote is still fairly rare

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

I did actually include real motivation about whys regarding that in CV back then.

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

Motivations in the CV O.o You madman

#

😄

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

If it's worth a shot I'll take it. I'm really eager to contribute in whatever way within my role.

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

I think my old cv has some sort of crap like that as well to be fair.

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

What's that?

mystic hull Sep 22, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

My most successful cover letter to date is one that was structured like so:

Who I am
Why I want to work for the studio (And what I found about them through google that tickled my interest)
Why I think I'm a good fit for the role

I also added some things I'd learned from playing their games

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

Longterm goal/mission stuff

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

Ah I see

mystic hull Sep 22, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

and I wrote it completely in my personality, no fake formal stuff

ashen lynx Sep 22, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

Motivation as reasoning for why I was considering only remote opportunities, not a wall of text of how of a well motivated employee I am. And yes, I am a madman, Glad.

flat gazelle Sep 22, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

What Blue said

mystic hull Sep 22, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

though your experience may vary

mental ruin Sep 22, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

I've tried to do the same, Blue. I didn't want to come across as trying too hard. I've kept it personal in places and been frank about my motivations.

#

I see Deathrey

#

All this has been extremely helpful, thank-you. I'll continue to work on my portfolio, and make some applications in the meantime.

#

It should go without saying, but if any of you are in the position to hire and like my work, I'm open to any and all contact in that regard!

#

I'll even send you my cover letter...

plucky hatch Sep 23, 2019, 1:08 AM

#

It would be in your very best interest to put all the chances on your side.
Meaning, do things that will help you gain visibility and... trust.

#

@mental ruin And by that I mean boosting your social media.

#

Ex:

plucky hatch Sep 23, 2019, 1:28 AM

#

You want to make a portfolio that stands out?
Search badass concept arts on pinterest and reproduce them in 3D.

You'll learn a F ton.
You'll attract viewers, fans of those concept arts.
Nobody has the balls to do it anyway. It's a lot of work. You'll be ahead of the game.
You'll have a stunning looking portfolio, even if you didn't design all those 3D scenes.
Ultimately, you saved time...

#

And as you do this, you'll pick up work speed.

errant ermine Sep 24, 2019, 12:08 AM

#

Tbf, he has pretty solid social media already. One thing I would add is publishing your work under your real name, have your CV, personal blurb and such available on your artstation. Makes it come across as more professional.
You're pretty much on the level of material/texture artists I worked with in AAA.

plucky hatch Sep 24, 2019, 1:11 AM

#

I second that. 👌

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

So I learned a little bit of blender and a little bit of Maya . Still not sure which to choose to focus on for modeling. I do like how blender uses modifiers for stuff makes it easier to undo and fix things. Any advice for building a portfolio and future jobs / free Lance ? I have zbrush for sculpting and I will be using substance. I know Maya indie was just released which is an improvement.

tidal moth Sep 24, 2019, 3:52 PM

#

maya is currently industry standard, but blender may be up and coming

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 4:13 PM

#

I see just feel like every cool artist I see is using Maya for portfolio or something

#

Blender seems like a at home project

#

Should I just use Maya until blender picks up or is officially released?

#

Feels like they are always having cool must have features gettit ready to be released

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 4:16 PM

#

The Maya artist working for me is learning Blender. Not an advice to focus on blender or anything, my personal advice would be mastering 3D modelling on a level where all you need in a new 3D editor is to get used to the hotkeys and the UI

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 4:21 PM

#

I do like how to quickly render something up in blender . Is the Maya artist learning blender to help aid in work or personal reasons

#

@fickle hatch

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 4:22 PM

#

Personal reasons really

#

But also to help in work (we used to use a mixture of blender and maya), though that wasn't required

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 4:28 PM

#

I see thanks for the input I'm finishing up a tutorial series in blender and will try to mimic it in Maya and see how it goes

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 4:37 PM

#

It doesn’t really matter. They both can get the same result. Such 3D suites are negligibly similar when it comes down to it (learning curve wise). Though, Maya requires a pretty penny every year yet it broke its own mirror tool. 😜

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 4:41 PM

#

I knows it's 250 year but student is free

#

For personal indie

#

I just feel like if I were to have a portfolio and have Maya on it , it would give me a little more advantage

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 4:49 PM

#

No, not $250/year, it’s $200/month.

#

Maya is expensive.

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 4:49 PM

#

The result is what matters. You’re expected to be able to adapt to new software regardless. The larger studios uses in house/modified software after all. Studios won’t care what you’ve used unless it’s a tiny indie.

#

They’re talking about maya indie

#

https://area.autodesk.com/maya-indie/

Maya Indie

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 4:50 PM

#

The only reason why you see more experienced people using it is because more experienced people tend to be working at studios and that’s where you see Maya a lot. It has nothing to do with whether or not the program is going to be better for you specifically, it’s just it has a different audience than Blender does. Blender’s audience tends to be more hobbyists because it’s free, and that means a lot of the content you see using it isn’t made by people doing it for a living.

#

That being said, even though it won’t really impact the final end result, it can still impact your chances if you have Maya experience or not. If the company you want to work for uses Maya then the fact they’ll need to train you to use it and get up to speed will be a consideration when deciding whether or not to hire you.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 4:53 PM

#

So it's safe to atleast be familiar with blender just incase and learn Maya for job opportunities

#

To have both under belt

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 4:53 PM

#

Know enough to say you have experience with maya

#

Or blender. Up to you which one you want to focus on.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 4:56 PM

#

Tbh , I did like how fast I was able to render something pretty with blender with a tutorial. I dabbled with Maya for only modeling and never dived into cloth, particle simulation and rendering so I'll give that a try and see how I feel about it.

#

Thank you for your guidance

#

Houdini is another beast that will be dealt with later

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 4:58 PM

#

Heh. I assume you want game related jobs? 😜 rendering wouldn’t matter

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 4:58 PM

#

Well for portfolio pieces . I did buy marmoset when on sale m Eevee was fun

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 4:58 PM

#

Use marmosets if you do want to show off your model with pretty renders

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 4:59 PM

#

Gotcha

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 4:59 PM

#

Well, you’re pretty set 😜

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 4:59 PM

#

I have marmoset, student zbrush for now and student substance.

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 4:59 PM

#

Nice ZeroOk

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:00 PM

#

Not sure if I should incorporate Houdini at all for anything

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 5:00 PM

#

Look into Fusion 360 if you’re interested in hard surfaces

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:00 PM

#

If you want to do VFX, learn Houdini. If not, don’t bother.

#

You need to decide what you actually want to do for a job before knowing if you should learn Houdini or not.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:00 PM

#

Not even for world generating and stuff ?

#

Environment and props

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 5:01 PM

#

It enjoy Houdini for procedural environment modules

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:01 PM

#

If you spread yourself too thin, you end up in a spot where you don’t really know enough of any single program to really be able to use it fluently.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:01 PM

#

I see I'm just not sure which are right for the job seems like there are a lot of buzz words

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:01 PM

#

Blender, Maya, Substance, ZBrush, these are all massive programs that cover a ton of subjects already.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

Would Houdini be like an added bonus once comfortable with the others ?

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

If you say you know everything, people are going to look at that and question if you really do or if you just say you do.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

I see

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

If you’re doing environments and props and do NOT plan on being a tech artist, Houdini isn’t something you need to concern yourself with.

#

You really need to be willing to get into scripting and tech art to take advantage of Houdini.

#

But if you want to do scripting and tech art, you’re then probably not going to be using much ZBrush in your career.

plucky hatch Sep 24, 2019, 5:03 PM

#

That isnt even a question.
If you want to be appealing, use the software that companies need you to be expert with. Ready to produce.

Maya.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

Why wouldn't you use zbrush if you are using Houdini as a tech artist

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

Pick your battles, make sure you know what tools you need for your job to a skilled degree. Don’t hop between programs just because you hear it’s good, do it because you find a need for it.

tall garnet Sep 24, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

That's a weird way to spell 3d S Max

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

Because tech artists are never sculpting. That’s not their job.

#

Tech artists are building tools and scripts for the other artists to work with, sitting between artists and programmers.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

Oh I see

#

So they take the assets and they create the generators / scripts for the level designers or something

#

In like ue4 or something

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

Yeah. Tech artist are the ones who will make those massive complex Houdini scripts to generate where to automatically place rocks. They’re not the ones sitting in ZBrush and sculpting high poly rocks for 8 hours.

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

Tech artists needs to know how to do everything there is to do in the workflow, but they won't be producing actual assets beyond maybe a few test assets

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

^

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

You’re forgetting you can make rocks and plants with a few noise node 😜

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

So if you want to be an environment and props artist, there’s not really going to be any overlap there. And if you actually want an environment or prop artist -job-, knowing scripting can actually harm you in that regard. I’ve had to fight -hard- to make sure I actually do art at my job and not just get thrown to scripting jobs 24/7 because I just happen to know some scripting.

ashen lynx Sep 24, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

Herecy! Rawks should be handcrafted ! Respect the rawk!

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

You can. Making rocks is artists job. Tech artists job is to answer the question of "but what are the implications, pro's and cons of using noise nodes for rocks?"

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

A lot of employers I find, if they come across an artist that happens to know how to script, will not allow you to do actual art and will throw you at tech art instead since tech artists are scarce right now.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

I see thank you for your insight

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

@urban stump ha ha that's sort of my experience in life

ashen lynx Sep 24, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

A lot of employers I find, if they come across an artist that happens to know how to script, will not allow you to do actual art and will throw you at tech art instead Could not be more precise than that.

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

I've never had an official job title as a result

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

I mean I know some programming but I'm assuming the language is completely different

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:09 PM

#

If you want to do art, never let your employer know you can program.

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 5:09 PM

#

Almost all my environment assets were made in Houdini. Granted, I learned Houdini because it was required to. I’m a character artist by trade

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 5:09 PM

#

My unofficial job title has always been "get shit done person" and I always would end up doing broad things outside of what I was initially hired for

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:09 PM

#

All I know is JavaScript tbh

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

Close enough 😜

#

same logic, different quirks

urban stump Sep 24, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

It’s 2019 and I still get some potential employers asking if I can also do IT for them even though I haven’t done that since 2011.

#

You -never- shake that off if you do it.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

My day job is cyber security engineer

#

With about 10 years it experience

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

I refuse to touch anything IT related, even at my current job, even if I can do it 😄

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

Like wise ^

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

I'm delegating all server configuring junk to my minion

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

yep

#

Alright well it all makes sense at the end of the day I don't want to come home and bang my head figuring out code , already do that at work

#

The tech artist doesn't seem like something I'd like

#

Wanna zone out model texture stuff

#

Thank you all

fickle hatch Sep 24, 2019, 5:18 PM

#

I know, right, I love zoning out doing textures too

#

But the forces beyond our scope want us to our full potential 😄

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:39 PM

#

Isn't there tons of integration tools with Maya substance and ue4?

#

Sorry I might be going off topic

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 5:40 PM

#

To what degree?

#

There’s substance plugin but it’s... well, I never found it useful. There’s ART for maya. Haven’t touched it myself. Exporting has always been sufficient.

grizzled ice Sep 24, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

I'll switch over to a different channel fee like I'm going off topic

errant ermine Sep 24, 2019, 8:23 PM

#

Depends on the studio. Usually you have scripts and tools made for your by your resident tech artist or tool programmer that makes exporting and setting up your assets in to fit with project or engine requirements/guidelines easier and almost automated. Here we have tools for Max, Maya and Blender. I also worked in a studio where some artists had to shift from maya to max because our new engine only had a 3ds max companion toolbox, and production couldn't wait until we had TA make a maya version.
For example, Ubisoft recently joined the Blender development fund, and a lot of artists internally there picked up Blender professionally, or started learning it.
Other studios like Machinegames for example almost exclusively work with Modo. There is also a big push for using procedural workflows in Houdini as well. So it depends a bit on what studio environment you'll end up in. They tend to specify it on the job posting however.

tidal moth Sep 24, 2019, 10:05 PM

#

just out of interest @west sonnet, how do you use houdini as a character artist?

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 10:12 PM

#

I very rarely do so for character art. Some instances may include; Small props creation and/or assembly, starter uv wrap if I’m lazy, mesh deformation using vellum, laying down fur/feathers cards, general fracturing or noise for additional mesh deformation.

tidal moth Sep 24, 2019, 10:13 PM

#

I see, so you're not creating custom functionality

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 10:14 PM

#

Not at all. Just simple scripts with limited application.

tidal moth Sep 24, 2019, 10:14 PM

#

fair enough

plucky hatch Sep 24, 2019, 10:15 PM

#

3d artists favoring 3d modeling specifically tend to prefer modo/3ds max. Or zbrush

#

but Im seeing maya everywhere now as the common one

#

3ds max for old schoolers

vocal meadow Sep 24, 2019, 10:18 PM

#

really?

#

which do you use @plucky hatch ?

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 10:26 PM

#

Maybe 10-15 years ago yes

tidal moth Sep 24, 2019, 10:27 PM

#

#sickburn

vocal meadow Sep 24, 2019, 10:29 PM

#

some advice ages badly i guess

tidal moth Sep 24, 2019, 10:31 PM

#

maya has become the standard these days, but the standard of the future might be blender

vocal meadow Sep 24, 2019, 10:33 PM

#

was someone asking what most people use?

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 10:35 PM

#

It was a combination of which people used the most and which was ideal for portfolio.

tidal moth Sep 24, 2019, 10:36 PM

#

generally if you know pipelines already in a company you're on a much better footing than otherwise

#

hence why knowing the industry standard being so important

#

I mean I still prefer max personally, but I understand times have changed

#

and really I need to put in some effort to learn blender and maya

west sonnet Sep 24, 2019, 10:39 PM

#

Still find them so similar that it's almost negligible. But hey, recruiter may disagree yes? 😛

tidal moth Sep 24, 2019, 10:39 PM

#

it's just impressions mostly

#

any lead will know that the skills are transferrable

#

and if your portfolio shines there's no reason to be worried, especially for a junior role

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 2:47 AM

#

Smoke and mirrors are cool. Don't get me wrong, a good looking portfolio is great.
But if you are going to hire a production artist, you need a certain quality + work speed.
But when you make games, 3D art is a huge bottleneck and you need to ship a game ASAP.
You need work speed. Doesn't matter if skills are transferable. You need fast production artists to get the job done

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 2:58 AM

#

Credibility is quite valuable hmm?

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 2:59 AM

#

There is a reason why we hire ''designers'' to design better software.
Sure, skills are transferable. But people use MODO and Zbrush because they are fast

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 2:59 AM

#

the point there is to look for certain quality and work speed, or just work speed?

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:00 AM

#

For the record, the whole meaning of MODO was the change ''What can we do?'' to ''How fast can we do''.

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 3:00 AM

#

so time and quality is important

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 3:01 AM

#

Careful now. You’re going to hurt yourself if you keep spouting half bake nonsense from a decade long past. 😜

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 3:04 AM

#

yea i mean, the advice in there is hard to comprehend.

#

essentially, do your job as quickly as you can right?

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:05 AM

#

You do know that Adnan Chaumette not too long ago was creating tools for Maya inspired by Modo, right? ADN Modeler Tools is a smart modeling script tool for Maya

Even long-standing Maya users envy Modo's modeling toolset and pipeline for its power, flexibility, and speed.

#

Oh and that not his quote. Just a general note.

#

Game studios such as Naughty Dog invested in his work.

#

[just pick up Modo, but hey... ]

#

kappaross

#

If you think it's a 10 years old half bake non sense, I really don't think you are up to date.
At all...

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 3:08 AM

#

whys that

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:09 AM

#

Because by now most people know that MODO exists and has some of the best modeling tools in the business. Because that's just what it does best and was designed to be.

#

On the flip side, MODO isn't a well-rounded as Maya.

#

So it just make sense for studios to stick with MAYA, overall.

#

But that means... slowing down your environment artist.

#

Pros and cons

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 3:10 AM

#

modo has been around for a long time though

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:11 AM

#

A while yes. But it started as a sub-d modeler

#

And was made by ligthwave devs that left to build something better

#

Faster

#

As a designer myself, I got huge respect for that guys at the Foundry that designed Modo all those years ago

#

They really did a good job on fixing annoyances we find in other apps to step up workflow

#

Like it's on genius level.

#

But you really need to use the app to understand what I mean by that.

#

From controls to camera handling, tools like Bevel (all in one Extrude + Inset + Bevel) all in one, Edge Slice with sliders in the viewport, fast contextual actions, smart selection, the fact that you can combine tools together, etc. And since MODO 10, the Modo dev team added more and more game art related tools.

#

Let me put it differently

#

At the end of the day, you can move stuff, extrude, bevel, push verts, etc. in all apps.
But by default MODO just does it better. It's like a game with well designed game controls

#

It just make sense and it flows well

#

What if you play CoD and suddenly the game requires you to press X to fire!!?

#

Well... it works right?

#

But that's not very smart.

#

The Modo dev just went... yeah it works better on Right Trigger

#

hahahahahhaa

#

I just figured gamers/game dev might better understand the game-analogy

#

XD

#

As time passes, I do think Maya, Blender and Modo will become more and more relevant for different reasons and industries.

#

maya is general (expensive)
blender is free
and modo is 3D modeling/Rendering comfort (affordable)

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 3:32 AM

#

we'll find out yea. art is hard stuff. it's not my specialty but i do appreciate the work artists put into their creations beyond the platform they make it on.

#

don't think theres any clear cut winner

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:32 AM

#

3D is very time consuming indeed

#

but in a good way

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 3:33 AM

#

Didn’t you have a crazy ranting co worker one time pat? How did you deal with it?

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 3:35 AM

#

Eh, you listen, help identify the subject. Try to get on the same page. talk through it.

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 3:36 AM

#

Patience is a virtue yes. But to what point in which they’re wasting production time and degrading team cohesion?

fickle hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:38 AM

#

Man Chris you’re a riot. I’m going to get Bryce 5 to make terrain in my game now

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 3:40 AM

#

Stick to video toaster fox

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 3:40 AM

#

Question is, how to deal with people who are wasting effort and time right?

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 3:40 AM

#

Yes

#

I’ve noticed such individuals are incredibly insecure too. Pointing them to some learning resources help

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 3:41 AM

#

If they don't / won't consider what they are doing to the team, vision or progress they gotta go. Have not dealt with someone like that myself though.

#

Know they are out there yea

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 3:43 AM

#

But then there are those who are arrogant on top of that insecurity. Could never figure out the best approach to deal with them. Aside from limiting engagement.

#

But again, such personality are damaging to the production

#

Oh hush, I know you’ve dealt with such egos 😜

#

Do share the secret

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 3:45 AM

#

SO, yea internet has a lot of people in it. Only thing you can really do is verify what people are saying and or press them when they make such statements with attention to how they respond.

#

Egos are avoidable in general

#

but they emerge from nothing sometimes

#

so they happen yea

#

Probably shouldn't get into specifics tho

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:46 AM

#

It certainly depends on the production pipeline, but often... the thing with 3D modeling is often it just doesn't matter where the 3D mesh is from
It will end up in UE4 anyway

#

could have been done with anything

fickle hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:47 AM

#

From Valve Hammer Editor through the mesh exporter feature

#

I suggest it, VHE is fun

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:47 AM

#

You could. But... if you read terms of use.
That's illegal.

#

Doesn't mean people havent done it. kappaross

fickle hatch Sep 25, 2019, 3:48 AM

#

I won’t report you it’s okay

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 3:48 AM

#

Intra personal relationship simulator. Always enlightening

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 4:04 AM

#

Sounds groundbreaking

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 4:30 AM

#

lesson of the day
forget about Blender or Modo.
Want to work in games?
Master Maya. Add Maya thumbnails to all your Artstation images + Substance Designer/Painter.

#

Get a student license (3 years) as free license.

spare jasper Sep 25, 2019, 4:53 AM

#

Dumb question, would PS also help there? Or would Maya, SubP/D, Zbrush, and UE4/Unity do the trick in terms of estabishing a solid base of knowledge for entry?

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 4:57 AM

#

Depends on what position you’re trying to enter

spare jasper Sep 25, 2019, 4:58 AM

#

Ah right, going for environment art.

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 4:59 AM

#

Yes. Photoshop is fundamental in that case.

spare jasper Sep 25, 2019, 5:10 AM

#

Ok! Do you know of any asset oriented resources for PS I could look into?

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 11:38 AM

#

photoshop? I mean photoshop is just basic but the standard for env art has been Substance Designer and Substance Painter for a while now.

#

they already were in 2014...

#

industry standard for both films and games

lilac walrus Sep 25, 2019, 1:10 PM

#

Substance Painter didn't even release until 2014

flat gazelle Sep 25, 2019, 1:10 PM

#

Shhhh... No need for details here.

#

Death to all who use Photoshop!

lilac walrus Sep 25, 2019, 1:11 PM

#

Designer has been around a little longer, but I don't think too many people used it in it's first 2-3 years of existence

mental ruin Sep 25, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

@plucky hatch @errant ermine Huge compliments and valued advice, thank-you both! Anywhere I can get feedback on my CV?
And Chris, when you talk about reproducing concept art as a primarily textures materials artist, are you advising I branch into environment design as I intend to?

#

Also I have another question - I've been learning Zbrush lately to expand my tool set and delve into areas I'm not typically comfortable in. Would it be worth uploading this work in progress sculpt to my Artstation for future employers to see alongside my texture work, or is it irrelevant and best kept out? It's nothing remarkable nor is it finished but might be a worthy inclusion:

#

📎 Screenshot_1716.png

#

📎 Screenshot_1718.png

flat gazelle Sep 25, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

Is it your best work?

mental ruin Sep 25, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

It's my best work in this area

#

But it's not the area I'm looking to apply for.

flat gazelle Sep 25, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

Is that the area you are applying?

#

Then I'd leave it

#

Learning pieces doesn't belong in a portfolio.

mental ruin Sep 25, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

Understood. I thought perhaps for the purpose of variety and demonstrating an eagerness to learn and expand it might be worthwhile, but I fully admit that it's a) unfinished and that it b) misses the mark in a number of areas for it's intended purpose (namely some anatomy and proportions).

#

Oh, almost forgot - it's also as I've mentioned experience with the program in my CV, so I wanted to demonstrate this in my work somehow, just as evidence. Still unwise?

ashen lynx Sep 25, 2019, 2:17 PM

#

I had impression that you are applying as a texture artist.

#

If so, character sculpt won't help you at all.

flat gazelle Sep 25, 2019, 2:18 PM

#

I would only include the Very best works. That usually rules out areas where you are still getting up to speed.

#

The progress you've gone through getting to those very best results isn't really interesting.

mental ruin Sep 25, 2019, 2:22 PM

#

I am Deathrey! Noted, thanks all

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 2:26 PM

#

@plucky hatch
no substance designer started with games around that time. but it took years before game artists accepted it as the new standard. people were still claiming that photoshop was better. they had no idea what sd was

lilac walrus Sep 25, 2019, 2:28 PM

#

I mean, when Designer was new it wasn't really competing with Photoshop

#

different tools for different parts of the toolchain

#

to an extent it's still that way

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 2:48 PM

#

The OP already has both substance in their repertoire and was merely inquiring if photoshop should be included.

lilac walrus Sep 25, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

I mean, if you actively use it, sure

vocal meadow Sep 25, 2019, 4:59 PM

#

Artists would need something to paint bitmaps in regardless no?

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 5:12 PM

#

Both work well at the weakness of the other. Hence, using the tools in conjunction.

steel creek Sep 25, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

proper tool for the job. Also, Substance D has been around 19+ years. I first saw it at Siggraph 2000 at their tiny presentation booth with a tour by Sebastien himself. It took half a decade just to get ppl to stop using Dark Tree Textures.

west sonnet Sep 25, 2019, 5:54 PM

#

Dark Tree! Enjoy this blast from the past http://www.darksim.com/html/dt25_description.html

lilac walrus Sep 25, 2019, 9:57 PM

#

Substance didn't exist in any form 15+ years ago. Substance Designer was released in 2010

#

Substance Air / Engine came first, but eh

#

in 2010ish, Substance Designer was barely competing with shit like Crazybump

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 10:04 PM

#

⚡ The history of Substance
https://www.substance3d.com/company/history

Substance

History

#

Photoshop was never designed for games.
We used it anyway.
Substance 3.5 made a lot more sense, but it lacked the ''image editing by hand'' tools that Photoshop had... still has.
I really liked where SD was going.
I promoted the hell out of SD around 2012-2014 on polycount.

#

Because nobody knew about it

#

Just like Modo...

spare jasper Sep 25, 2019, 10:08 PM

#

Soo, forgive me for my ignorance since I'm just starting an online program to learn this all, but what purpose does PS serve now if SD and SP are industry standard? Seems like the non-destructiveness and variability of those programs greatly surpass PS?

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 10:10 PM

#

Photoshop can be used to edit photos, create images, add text, create concept arts/illustrations.
Substance Designer exists to create procedural images. Instead of adding finite layers, you build an image by pluging nodes together.
At any time you can change a node and it will affect the end output. It's non destructive and for mass production

#

And we now basically sculpt in 3D using tesselation in Substance to create normal maps and height maps, etc.

#

But you don't sculpt by hand, you sculpt by applying processes

#

Almost everything in SD is just about using black and white images lmao...

#

https://tenor.com/view/magic-shia-labeouf-snl-skit-fingers-gif-4860090

Tenor

#

@spare jasper
You can get up to speed with Substance by visiting the Substance Academy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_q_JaCg7hk

YouTube

Substance

Creating your first Substance Material Introduction

Creating your first Substance Material course introduction. The course is divided into four chapters: Ch1: Discusses workflow, Substance Designer and node ar...

▶ Play video

spare jasper Sep 25, 2019, 10:15 PM

#

thanks for the resource! So with creating assets PS has mainly become ancillary in that if you wanted text or some sort of non procedural detail added to your material you would use it

#

right?

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 10:36 PM

#

The current workflow is a bit like...
Create Substances with Substance Designer
Use Substance Painter to paint masks, apply Substances and adjust procedural settings.

#

But you can texture only with one or the other.

#

This is what I mean by Substances or Smart Materials. Either in Substance Designer or Substance Painter or even directly in UE4, you can edit this on the fly.
https://docs.substance3d.com/spdoc/files/162005019/162005022/1/1502118931111/anchor_height_blend_optim.gif

lilac walrus Sep 25, 2019, 10:44 PM

#

that gif looks like a heightmap based blend, which tbh is better done at the material level

plucky hatch Sep 25, 2019, 10:50 PM

#

SD has better nodes for this now.

#

I really like where SD is at now, minus... i can't freaking paint 3D masks 😡

#

SD and SP, separated... feels like something is missing in both.

#

Should have been 1 app

#

But hey, it's a start...

granite brook Sep 26, 2019, 6:31 AM

#

We use both tools internally too. They even give us programmers a good base for making materials.

steel creek Sep 26, 2019, 5:54 PM

#

@lilac walrus your history on substance is incorrect

#

https://www.substance3d.com/company/history

Substance

History

karmic kayak Sep 26, 2019, 5:55 PM

#

before Substance they did mapzone iirc

steel creek Sep 26, 2019, 5:55 PM

#

just because it was not called substance designer, doesnt mean it didnt exist and in use as a concept for many years

#

he gave a white paper presentation 2000/2001 siggraph at the booth they rented. Same year I bought Zbrush 1.27b for 129$

lilac walrus Sep 26, 2019, 6:50 PM

#

a white paper presentation is not a product

#

not even remotely

plucky hatch Sep 26, 2019, 7:01 PM

#

The game jobs in my state use Unreal Engine 3 and 4 with C++ and not blueprints. However, most of the tutorials and resources I find online are in blueprints. I read online that it's not worth converting blueprints to c++ but I honestly would really like that option so I can understand C++ better and ace the interviews.

#

Any advice?

#

Btw, graduated with a bachelors in Computer Game Design and Development back in July. We only worked in Unity with C# however, so I currently don't have the C++ skillset to get an Unreal job. Therefore I'm working with a company right now using Unity to make a desktop application

west sonnet Sep 26, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

You’ve never touched cpp nor unreal’s api?

honest cipher Sep 26, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

quality degree if they dont teach c++ in a game dev degree

west sonnet Sep 26, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

Sounds like my terrible university. They didn’t even know how to use source control 😜

karmic kayak Sep 26, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

source control? https://media.giphy.com/media/kaq6GnxDlJaBq/giphy.gif alex

Giphy

west sonnet Sep 26, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

Where did you find the picture of the head of department? 😜

plucky hatch Sep 26, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

Yeah no I had used base c but never C++. I had opened unreal but not done much with it

vocal meadow Sep 26, 2019, 8:22 PM

#

duckman, would advise you to just jump in. Take something like shootergame or any open source c++ unreal project and start playing around with the code

questions will come from that, which can be better answered in the discord

fickle hatch Sep 27, 2019, 12:34 AM

#

Random question, it's purely theoretical. If you worked at a place that you can't/don't want to reveal, how to handle that on CV? 😄

#

Like, we're assuming that there's no company name but there is contact info

#

E.g. one of the theoretical past workplaces was something like "Nuclear Weapons and Chemical Weapons of Mass Destruction, LLC."

#

I know gamedevs basically never end up in this situation, but I'm curious what gamedev people think of this

daring parrot Sep 27, 2019, 12:36 AM

#

Probably the same way you'd handle a resume including a classified job description, although thats slightly different

#

The more I think about it, the weirder it seems to omit company name

fickle hatch Sep 27, 2019, 12:38 AM

#

Yeah. Sometimes things get complicated 😄

daring parrot Sep 27, 2019, 12:38 AM

#

If it was just personal reasons I didn't want it revealed then I'd still send it out to specific individuals with the company name there

#

I'm betting if there are legal reasons then they'll also have given suggestions for what to put instead

fickle hatch Sep 27, 2019, 12:39 AM

#

Yes

#

This was a more theoretical situation, the real situation the real person has a second company name to put in place of the actual name

daring parrot Sep 27, 2019, 12:40 AM

#

Someone who isn't Jason Bourne

#

Right? 😉

fickle hatch Sep 27, 2019, 12:40 AM

#

Hehe

daring parrot Sep 27, 2019, 12:41 AM

#

Resume obfuscation would be a small red flag for me but I've also rarely been in the hiring chair

fickle hatch Sep 27, 2019, 12:41 AM

#

"Why does your CV say you've been a weapons specialist at Biscuits & Cakes Inc."

daring parrot Sep 27, 2019, 12:41 AM

#

Could be seen as faking credentials

ashen lynx Sep 27, 2019, 6:52 AM

#

Random question, it's purely theoretical. If you worked at a place that you can't/don't want to reveal, how to handle that on CV? From own experience, it will be treated as non-existent or irrelevant.

last hinge Sep 27, 2019, 12:52 PM

#

If you leave a time gap in your resume, they'll usually ask about it in an interview and you can explain to them "oh, I was working at Burger King to make ends meet" or "Yeah I was doing contract work for a company I'm not at liberty to divulge" or whatever you're comfortable with saying to that specific person

vernal kraken Sep 27, 2019, 1:29 PM

#

don't lie in your resume

#

(or at all ;))

#

https://youtu.be/4aWbPznYym4?t=124

YouTube

federation Russia

👑 Lyman Zerga Saul Bloom 👑 ( Carl Reiner )

▶ Play video

plucky hatch Sep 27, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

guys

#

my discipline is zeroat evenings why

vocal meadow Sep 27, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

hows your diet been

plucky hatch Sep 27, 2019, 6:25 PM

#

its has been good

#

i think i eat only 1k calories daily but i weight 80kg and 185 cm

#

and i also workout

#

i will add more calories after few weeks i guess

plucky hatch Sep 27, 2019, 10:17 PM

#

When Im saying recruiters should be former devs
Just saw a recruiter that read oh my a game designer + oh my a full stack programmer (nothing to do with 3D)
And then tried to push the person into a role of 3D graphics programmer for 3D training simulator

#

with Unity

#

Would have been a disaster

fickle hatch Sep 27, 2019, 10:56 PM

#

I think there might be less former devs who want to do this (or maybe former devs in total) than there are HR people in some big international companies

plucky hatch Sep 27, 2019, 10:58 PM

#

And we have jobs for people with 30 years of XP like this one
https://jobs.zenimax.com/requisitions/view/1373

#

A 3D artist who has 5 years of XP, can draw, paint and model his stuff, is familiar with VFX techniques and has programming experience

#

alex

#

So a concept artst + 3d artist + vfx artist + game programmer
Paid as an artist.

#

kappaross

elder mist Sep 27, 2019, 11:10 PM

#

well, Zenimax probably pays a ton for this kind of skills, right?

vocal meadow Sep 28, 2019, 12:30 AM

#

What’s the recruiter for

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 12:34 AM

#

recruiting programmers for a company that developers 3d training military simulators

#

the recruiter works for an agency and the person suggested the worst job in the list for my profile

#

literally, the worst match

#

At first, I wasnt told what job it was going to be about. I just knew the company and programming was involved

#

And then I told the person, well... I do have a game-related background. But the worst match would be a type of 3D graphics programmer job. Or game programmer job.

#

And right after, that's exactly the one job she sent me

#

XD

#

They had like... 30+ jobs.

#

Bottom line...
You recruiters shouldnt just be HR people

#

They should have domain knowledge

#

A lot of it.

#

A job involving 3D, front end, UX. worst case... back-end programming.
Would have made sense

#

I've seen some people start as recruiter and then they became like Level Designer or else

#

But Ive never seen the opposite.

fickle hatch Sep 28, 2019, 1:01 AM

#

They each should have at least 35 years of experience in the field

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 1:09 AM

#

loll

#

We have caffeine pills now
Tomorrow...
Free XP pills

fickle hatch Sep 28, 2019, 1:38 AM

#

It's pretty obvious you cannot be a recruiter unless you know how to program a z80

tidal moth Sep 28, 2019, 2:21 AM

#

oh so they dropped the punchcard requirement now? finally!

karmic kayak Sep 28, 2019, 8:14 AM

#

yea a real recruiter also knows asm language tbh

flat gazelle Sep 28, 2019, 11:02 AM

#

Exclusively written on the PC he soldered himself.

#

Gotta gatekeep those bastards

ashen lynx Sep 28, 2019, 11:06 AM

#

Do they hire without woodworking skill these days ? The best code is one, that was written at own hand-made desk.

flat gazelle Sep 28, 2019, 11:13 AM

#

I've heard of hires without it... They let anyone in these days. And even when they do follow up its often revealed they didn't even grow the trees themselves. Shameful.

ashen lynx Sep 28, 2019, 11:14 AM

#

Gross. Younglings lost all their manners, taking shortcuts everywhere imaginable.

karmic kayak Sep 28, 2019, 11:20 AM

#

wait ... they didn't grow the trees themselves? That why game dev sucks nowadays they let people in who have no real commitment.

sudden island Sep 28, 2019, 11:20 AM

#

a lot of studios i notice have a notice asking recruiters not to apply

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 2:22 PM

#

🍌 Question of the day
You open a game studio tomorrow.
You need to hire a recruiter.
You have 3 candidates.
A. Human resource person that just graduated from University
B. A senior recruiter who has 10 years of experience in the video games industry, but has the traditional HR background.
C. A game dev with 10 years of XP, someone who pretty much worked professionally in all the different departments. So he knows the job, the portfolio, did mentoring, has great soft skills, etc. And he is a bit sick of production work and he is considering becoming a full-time Talent Acquisition Specialist.

pastel spoke Sep 28, 2019, 2:28 PM

#

I will choose A, because none of the others will accept work in a newest game studio with 1 day.

flat gazelle Sep 28, 2019, 2:31 PM

#

B

#

I would need the hiring and HR skills. A is too junior and C is pointless.

#

When starting a studio, the first hires will be department heads/experts. All of which likely would be sourced without a coldcalling recruiter. You team up with people you already trust. Those people will then be the arbiters of who gets hired when you start filling the floor.

#

So the skills C has would be obsolete before the first day on the job.

#

In our startup I joined a few months before the recruiter did. All of my interviews and so on was organized by a generalist contractor recruiter.

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

🍿 kappaross 🍿

flat gazelle Sep 28, 2019, 2:43 PM

#

?

west sonnet Sep 28, 2019, 2:45 PM

#

The question wasn’t meant to be constructive I guess?

flat gazelle Sep 28, 2019, 2:45 PM

#

Yeah I guess

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 2:45 PM

#

It's better if you wait for more comments to be added.

#

We are all coming from different backgrounds and experience, Im expecting different answers. I had friends in recruitment, my sister is HR, my sister in law recruits, etc. Most of the people I know in the industry see recruiter X way. It changes how you view things.

#

Doesn't mean it's ''right''.

#

I'm more interested in the why than the answer A, B or C

pastel spoke Sep 28, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

That's right. I just answered with my point of view. When I get another experience and another way to view things, maybe I'll answer in another way

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

At the end of the day, we always get both sides.
Someone is going to ask hey should I write a cover letter when I apply for a job?
And you'll get one recruiter who is going to say, hell no I don't have time to read cover letters.
And you'll have another one who is going to say, of course it's best if you can tell me a bit more about where you are coming from, what your long term goals are and what you can do for us.

#

And when people apply for jobs and get rejected, they aren't explained why.

#

What is there to fix for next time?

pastel spoke Sep 28, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

The people who applied don't know

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

And no one really wants to question the current system in place, because... obviously you won't make many friends that way.

#

Let's say Simon writes a book about why recruiters are useless.
Then Simon can't find jobs anymore.

#

alex

ashen lynx Sep 28, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

Simon would not care, if he is the one, handing out jobs. Hence, you want to change the system? Climb up and do that from the top.

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 3:12 PM

#

I don't disagree, but I don't think anyone of us can dedicate our lives to every single problem out there

lilac walrus Sep 28, 2019, 3:12 PM

#

If you want to change the system, build a more successful system

#

it's more or less the only way it's going to change, after all

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 3:15 PM

#

There are other ways.

#

If we talk let's say... about The Foundry developing Modo. MODO suddenly started to receive more game dev tools between MODO 10-12. Why? The timing for them was good for it. Plus, James O'Hare joined their team (game tech artist/char artist). And Warren Marshall, Tor Frick and myself were pushing for more useful game art oriented tools for future versions of Modo. And I was promoting the hell out of it on Polycount.com. So everyone together was pushing for it, every way they could.

#

(1) identify the problem
(2) get everyone on board

#

(3) push

#

When I was studying at Cegep de Matane, all the students that we living on Campus had less than 56k internet speed. I asked a friend to assist me in the process, we organized a meeting with someone responsible for the Life on Campus. And after 6 months of surveying, petitions, meetings, etc. We were finally able to create a new Gaming Room project. Students could bring their PC there. Couldn't leave it there either, so that forced people to move in and out. But we fixed the lack of high speed internet problem. And even after our gen left, students for years after we still using it.

#

If you want X software to become industry standard, just allow schools to use it for free. And future employees will be competent with it for years to come.

ashen lynx Sep 28, 2019, 3:25 PM

#

I am loosing track. What is the connection between MODO and surviving as a student ?

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 3:26 PM

#

It wasn't about surviving, it's about solving problems.

#

You always need to get everyone on board for the push.

#

And after, there is always someone to like you for it... or hate you.

ashen lynx Sep 28, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

If you get everyone on board, you will sink.

#

someone has to be left out.

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

lol

fickle hatch Sep 28, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

I would pick D - recruit people with own resources, because if we’re a new game studio, we’re probably still tiny and hiring overhead isn’t a killer yet

lilac walrus Sep 28, 2019, 3:46 PM

#

for a small studio that makes sense, but once you start getting to the 40+ people mark that starts to become more difficult

fickle hatch Sep 28, 2019, 3:57 PM

#

I’d say the mark is at around 12-15

#

Is around the time when you have enough distribution of responsibilities that you can no longer allocate HR responsibilities to random people and likely now you are past initial setup and ran out of initial set of candidates you’ve prescreened

#

So you have to take in way more potential candidates suddenly

tidal moth Sep 28, 2019, 5:33 PM

#

I would agree that beyond 12 people it starts getting hairy

#

maybe even beyond 10

#

exec + leads + core essentially

#

@flat gazelle can I ask which company you work at? I understand if you don't want to mention it

flat gazelle Sep 28, 2019, 5:39 PM

#

Ubisoft Stockholm.

flat gazelle Sep 28, 2019, 6:03 PM

#

Hehe, beyond 12 is perfect. I'm employee 13. 😛

plucky hatch Sep 28, 2019, 6:52 PM

#

XD

#

Best number

nova hill Sep 28, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

I'm still at 1, I could use 1 more lol

#

and I don't think I'd qualify as a studio

#

more an IT guy, now if a studio, needs an IT guy, who can make games

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 12:17 AM

#

yet being at university 4 people in a group project feels almost un workable depending on team mates

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:21 AM

#

What do you mean? Not enough people on board?

#

Not enough roles covered?

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 12:23 AM

#

At university in my experience we had a lot of slackers, people who were just there because they liked video games and not the development. People would miss a lot of lectures and group sessions (especially in first and second year). The easy way people gathered was to give them the smallest jobs

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:24 AM

#

hahaha

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 12:24 AM

#

so we didn't have a gameplay programmer for a project being someone who was not in class for 80% of the time

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:24 AM

#

... well yeah. That's how it is

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 12:24 AM

#

instead we would be like "yeh can you o the UI for the menu"

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:25 AM

#

In my experience with school...
The ''great students'' are just the good to hire future employees
While the others just won't do the job

#

And recruiters still hire them.

#

God knows why

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 12:26 AM

#

Yeah I know half of them rn ( im in my final year) and half of them are like "im not even gonna look for a games job"

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:26 AM

#

I went to school 3 times and the 3 times everyone was just wtf recruitment is so random

#

I know one guy who could do sub-d modeling ,never cared. he is a lead now somewhere

#

Still makes me laugh...

errant ermine Sep 29, 2019, 12:27 AM

#

You seem to have a big hate and grudge against recruiters. Like in what studio have you worked ahere your HR and Talent acquisition does not vet candidates or interview them with the actual team and leads?

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:28 AM

#

It's not against ''recruiters''.

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 12:28 AM

#

Recruiting is different for every studio , but at times from what i have been told and have experience in placement year it is random at times

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:29 AM

#

Look, easy man. I went to college 3 times and the 3 times game studios werent hiring the best students.
And who they hired... was very random.

#

It's just how it is

#

There is a good side to it

#

and a bad side

#

Pros and cons to everything

#

I've worked in studios where people doing shitty work, but working fast would get promoted

#

Is it a normal thing? of course not

#

It's different everywhere

errant ermine Sep 29, 2019, 12:32 AM

#

I am well aware. Every single company I have go through the hiring process with, I only talked with HR and talent acq at the end. The problem with the current system is that it very much is a people/social game. And people who are good at the social game aren't necessarily the hardest working or brightest student/employee. And that is unique to game industry, it's any industry imho.

#

Same with promotions, etc. A lot of comes down of how good you are at interacting with people.

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:33 AM

#

I mean, it is also a bit different depending on the discipline. The portfolio of an artist is more explicit than the one of a designer.

#

But when people tell you your portfolio is everything and you realize it's not so important because that guy with a shitty portfolio just got a job

#

it's weird for people

#

and frustrating

errant ermine Sep 29, 2019, 12:37 AM

#

It's kind of why we have art and intro tests. Hell, I've had to do art tests during interviews (late stages, usually onsite or the third Skype interview). There were studios where I didn't have to do a single one.

#

And I've also heard horror stories from people just having someone else do their test. That is like next level retardation. Luckily that dude didn't get hired because they smelled his bullshit during the on-site.

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 12:41 AM

#

First thing we were taught i second year going for placements and it was aimed at particular students was "If you are more qualified than someone but you smell bad you wont get the job"

errant ermine Sep 29, 2019, 12:43 AM

#

Well, not bad life advice. I've smelled game dev students. At our school, the game development campus, we have signs in the bathrooms where we remind people that they should take showers. No joke.

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:44 AM

#

@crisp depot
hahahahahaha

#

That's wise

errant ermine Sep 29, 2019, 12:44 AM

#

Seems they were more trying to solve a campus problem tho :p

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:45 AM

#

When I graduated in 3D art, I should have applied everywhere.
And kept applying.

#

I didnt. I just wanted to boost my portfolio first and get it good.

#

And then apply.

#

And then... life stroke

#

And I had no more time to make that portoflio

#

Wife got sik

#

Had a kid

#

Was fucked

#

Job wasnt paying, had to do overtime all the time

#

no more time for folio

#

But you learn.

#

It's oky if you suck. What matters is getting the job

errant ermine Sep 29, 2019, 12:49 AM

#

Get in the door first, boost your portfolio with shipped work. I basically just got lucky with that. My portfolio was shit, honestly, got hired at small studio where I did my internship, then got poached by AAA.

#

Although, 3d art fields are ridiculously competitive, and I was a better problem solver than artist, so I just transitioned to TA and Houdini instead.

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:55 AM

#

Nice!

#

What do you do?

#

TA is always like.. (wtf)

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 12:56 AM

#

Im currenttly like emailing and calling all the ones I know to try and get my foot in the door after i grad next ummer

errant ermine Sep 29, 2019, 12:59 AM

#

Currently going to be full time Houdini artist, mostly procedural 3d. Past two years I was TA at Ubi, mostly doing shaders, python tools and hero asset integration.

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 12:59 AM

#

awesome

errant ermine Sep 29, 2019, 1:03 AM

#

Started out as a 3d artist tho.

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 2:07 AM

#

Im moving to web dev 😛

#

for... so many reasons

#

I'll get back to game dev later.
For the same reasons

#

lmao

#

Game dev is changing

#

Valve showed the path

#

Everyone has been too busy making games to learn from it

#

Dont make games. build a business

#

To sell games, you need a platform.

#

you need an audience

#

The best audience, is your audience.

#

Build it.

#

Build your own platform.

#

ALWAYS

daring parrot Sep 29, 2019, 3:36 AM

#

You act like this is a new revelation 🤔

#

People don't want to build shovels they want to see what's in the hills 🤷

zinc citrus Sep 29, 2019, 12:09 PM

#

when will i get my game ??? unreal

#

xd

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 10:59 PM

#

@plucky hatch what you using for your web dev stuff? eclipse??

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 11:07 PM

#

Depends on the project.
I did some projects with AJAX
Last time was React + Redux, Typescript, SQL, .Net Core, C#, Node.JS and json.
My website was done with HTML5, CSS3 and JQuery.
At the moment, I'm moving to Visual Studio Code + Angular + Bootstrap.Not sure what I'll use for backend.

#

The MEAN stack, I'm guessing.

crisp depot Sep 29, 2019, 11:20 PM

#

Yeh I only every did basic Web design with HTML , Javascript , CSS etc

#

only basics never too far

plucky hatch Sep 29, 2019, 11:22 PM

#

Pros and cons

nova hill Sep 30, 2019, 3:54 AM

#

I got a lot to do on the web side

#

My game is almost ready to have people play multiplayer, but I need to tie in game stats to their accounts for the website and such, and I just need to finish my website

#

right now I have a very basic template up for a few demos

plucky hatch Sep 30, 2019, 4:36 AM

#

Awesome

leaden fulcrum Sep 30, 2019, 4:34 PM

#

I have a quick question so i had a interview at a company to be a unreal engine programmer and listed and kinda listed my tutoring channel but havent linked it should i send it or leave it?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfWnoah9V0-GozimLIer85w

YouTube

Dollon

west sonnet Sep 30, 2019, 4:50 PM

#

I would personally say yes. Its proof you can walk the talk and explain the process on top of it.