#career-chat | Unreal Source | Page 62

mystic hull Apr 4, 2019, 6:39 PM

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Is it normal for such tests to have trick question? (unsolvable)

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Im terrified right now 😂

lilac walrus Apr 4, 2019, 6:48 PM

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it's not often the case, but it's possible

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especially for code

mystic hull Apr 4, 2019, 6:53 PM

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Mhmm, gonna have to pray and wait 🤷

plucky hatch Apr 4, 2019, 7:07 PM

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is Hourences working at Epic?

urban stump Apr 4, 2019, 7:09 PM

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Yes

honest cipher Apr 4, 2019, 7:21 PM

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@mystic hull very common to put trick questions

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they give you quite good info depending on the reaction

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1: if he just bullshits it you know he is lying
2: if he actually answers it correctly even though that question is way over the level... thats 🤔
3: if he just stays calm and accepts its something he doesnt know, you know that the guy at least is honest

mystic hull Apr 4, 2019, 7:23 PM

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well, apparently it wasn't a trick question

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turns out its solvable, though way above my paygrade 😂

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Was really obscure until I asked a more experienced friend, though

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hopefully it wont hurt my chances 🤔

honest cipher Apr 4, 2019, 7:23 PM

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what was the question?

west sonnet Apr 4, 2019, 7:24 PM

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They were just looking for your reaction. Not whether you can solve it

honest cipher Apr 4, 2019, 7:24 PM

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they did it to me

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though i was able to ask those correctly

mystic hull Apr 4, 2019, 7:25 PM

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Was an online test really, but I did state that i can't solve it 🤷

honest cipher Apr 4, 2019, 7:25 PM

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one of the companies, an AAA one (position for engine developer) went a little bit beyond overkill

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they did an online test, you had 2 hours to do 30 programming questions

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the thing is

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those were no joke

mystic hull Apr 4, 2019, 7:26 PM

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the heck

honest cipher Apr 4, 2019, 7:26 PM

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each of that question was like a full excersise

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they did not expect everyone to answer the 30

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i answered 20 of them (not enough time)

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half of them were hacker-rank type puzzles, other were math problems, and other were architecture/graphics questions

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pretty sure only Carmack can do the 30 of them

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or maybe not even

mystic hull Apr 4, 2019, 7:27 PM

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I feel like I should've known the answer though >.<

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It's just not something I've ever used

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Question was about recursion, without using recursion

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i.e. dynamic programming

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It's literally the single subject I always skip when self-teaching

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And the question just seemed way out of place

honest cipher Apr 4, 2019, 7:28 PM

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recursion without recursion is just using a queue

mystic hull Apr 4, 2019, 7:28 PM

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The other questions were more about CPU fundementals & memory manipulation

honest cipher Apr 4, 2019, 7:28 PM

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engine dev or similar position?

mystic hull Apr 4, 2019, 7:28 PM

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& the generic algorithms/datastructurs

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Engine/network

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Still unsure what I'll be assigned to (when accepted hopefully), but the position covers both I suppose

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Question was the sub set sum problem (although I didn't know that, when I was attempting to answer it)

harsh brook Apr 5, 2019, 1:21 AM

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worst case scenario you're better prepared for the next one

mystic hull Apr 5, 2019, 1:23 AM

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Indeed I am!

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A lot of thanks to the guys in here tbh

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Some of the biggest help I've gotten so far 😃

harsh brook Apr 5, 2019, 1:47 AM

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Ive failed alot of interviews one solely because I wore a suit live and learn my man

mystic hull Apr 5, 2019, 1:48 AM

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As a friend of mine always says; such i life 🤷

rapid crown Apr 5, 2019, 7:39 PM

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<@&213101288538374145> I need to speak with one of you right away. This is urgent. Yes it concerns career.

pastel estuary Apr 5, 2019, 7:40 PM

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lol, what you did is kinda against the rules.

north narwhal Apr 5, 2019, 7:40 PM

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oof, that ping crashed my discord lol

rapid crown Apr 5, 2019, 7:41 PM

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Yes, I know. But, at least I got your attention. And this is urgent in a very bad way, considering someone in here is doing something that's illegal.

granite brook Apr 5, 2019, 7:41 PM

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It's not like you could just DM us.

lilac walrus Apr 5, 2019, 7:41 PM

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^

steel creek Apr 5, 2019, 7:42 PM

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try a PM next time?

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you could have literally started a DM group message to all them

kind crater Apr 5, 2019, 9:01 PM

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and I just got curious...

north narwhal Apr 5, 2019, 10:01 PM

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basically, confirm the identity of people you are talking to from a looking for work post

steel creek Apr 5, 2019, 10:04 PM

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kind of like, when you get into an uber/lyft, make sure they are the person and car shown in the app and that they ask you by your name to confirm you are not getting jacked

mystic hull Apr 6, 2019, 7:15 PM

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So, being the persistent lil f that I am, I sent am email inquiring about what I should improve on and when I can reapply

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I basically passed everything except a topic relating to algorithms, and they said they "Usually prefer waiting 6 months before re-applying"

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Now the question is, does "Usually prefer" translate to "If you can prove you've learned the required topic before that time, feel free to re-apply" or is it more of a strict limit, from your experience(s)?

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I'm confident I can get around this last topic much before 6 months, but I don't want to be perceived as annoying, either 🤷

digital gate Apr 6, 2019, 7:24 PM

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is this the only company you wanna work for?

mystic hull Apr 6, 2019, 7:27 PM

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Not necessarily, but one of the top on the list, and one of the few that actually got back to me 🤔

digital gate Apr 6, 2019, 7:28 PM

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I'd wait the 6 mo and keep applying around

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take the time to not only improve your algo, but everything across the board

mystic hull Apr 6, 2019, 7:28 PM

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Yeah, that's the plan :3

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Wouldn't have thought waiting is so hard, though 😂

digital gate Apr 6, 2019, 7:28 PM

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I'd absolutely not apply sooner than 3 mo

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The closer you apply, be aware, the more critical they're going to be

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That is, if you get back to where your knowledge is relevant

mystic hull Apr 6, 2019, 7:30 PM

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That makes sense

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I wanted to sell myself on the "accelerated learning" aspect of things, then again I don't want to overdo things to avoid suspicion

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and/or being perceived as desperate/annoying

digital gate Apr 6, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Who knows, you might end up working with a company you never even considered (out of reach)

mystic hull Apr 6, 2019, 7:31 PM

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True 😛

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The test did give me quite the insight on hat I'm lacking though

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Feels like a win-win situation so far

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Also, Thanks 😃

digital gate Apr 6, 2019, 7:32 PM

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Just don't get hung up on the "failures"

mystic hull Apr 6, 2019, 7:32 PM

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Yeah, deffo better than the last time I got rejected 😂

digital gate Apr 6, 2019, 7:32 PM

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If you don't come off with something to improve and still don't hear back, then you've found a company who can't communicate

mystic hull Apr 6, 2019, 7:32 PM

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👌

wheat pivot Apr 6, 2019, 8:49 PM

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@mystic hull Our company has a period of time after an applicant is denied that the auto-denial system will keep the resume from even getting to a human

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It's a standard software that many companies use

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So 6 months may be that time period

mystic hull Apr 6, 2019, 8:50 PM

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Good info, thanks!

supple timber Apr 8, 2019, 8:31 PM

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is having a degree necessary to get into game development?

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 8:32 PM

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lol

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what

supple timber Apr 8, 2019, 8:32 PM

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?

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 8:32 PM

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no?

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im sure there's a good number of people in computer science and such but game development specific degrees

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probably very few

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and you're not a doctor

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so a degree is not really necessary

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good to have in alll cases

rancid pewter Apr 8, 2019, 8:34 PM

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Well to be honest it would depend on the country and the company... Some are more asinine about the whole education thing

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 8:35 PM

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game development doesnt mean you have to join a company

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lol

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you can make a game with your friends and strangers

remote saffron Apr 8, 2019, 8:36 PM

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but what if your friends won't work with you unless you have a degree kappa

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 8:36 PM

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thats hard cause i dont have retarded friends like that

flat gazelle Apr 8, 2019, 8:37 PM

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Rule of thumb, degrees help with visas and some programming positions. Not much else.

lapis vortex Apr 8, 2019, 8:37 PM

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degrees help with the first job for sure

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portfolio is what ultimately gets you to job interviews

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game dev schools makes it easier to focus on your portfolio

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if you're a get shit done type of guy you can do it solo, i wouldnt try it if you havent done any projects by now

remote saffron Apr 8, 2019, 8:50 PM

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from what I have heared if you are interested in programming a software engineer/computer science degree might be better for you tho

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specialized game dev degree might be ok, general/design ones are said to be terrible...

supple timber Apr 8, 2019, 8:51 PM

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like i am going for a Programmer degree

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not game dev oriented

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@rich parcel

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 9:05 PM

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good

supple timber Apr 8, 2019, 9:06 PM

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also there arent alot of local game development jobs @rich parcel

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atleast anything worth looking at

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 9:06 PM

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well youre gonna have to relocate if you wanna join a company

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where do you livbe

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live

supple timber Apr 8, 2019, 9:06 PM

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Greece

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 9:06 PM

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oooh, lucky you

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the girls are cute there

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😂

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maybe look at poland

supple timber Apr 8, 2019, 9:07 PM

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i dont know polish

remote saffron Apr 8, 2019, 9:08 PM

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you don't have to

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english is a must, and it is enough in most places

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 9:08 PM

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http://www.topgamedevelopers.com/studios-directory/europe/

Top Game Developers

Europe Archives - Top Game Developers

flat gazelle Apr 8, 2019, 9:10 PM

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Lol at that list

remote saffron Apr 8, 2019, 9:12 PM

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first page: I know 1 company from the list 😂

flat gazelle Apr 8, 2019, 9:12 PM

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Top studios in europe missed DICE, Massive, Rockstar, Rare and so on...

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I don't know who runs it, but there's something fucky going on

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 9:13 PM

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hahah

flat gazelle Apr 8, 2019, 9:13 PM

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I'm guessing it's some kind of recruitement farm like Gamesmith and studios have to "claim" their page to be represented.

supple timber Apr 8, 2019, 9:14 PM

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companies like Ubisoft,Dice,Rockstar are a top priority to get into

rich parcel Apr 8, 2019, 9:14 PM

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Jagex
Ninja Theory
Guerilla B.V.
Quantic Dream
Crytek
Media Molecule
Criterion Games
Frontier Develpoments
Wargaming
CCP Games
Arkane Studios
Rockstar North
CD Project Red
Ubisoft
IO Interactive

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CD Projekt Red has a bright future

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and they're hiring

flat gazelle Apr 8, 2019, 9:16 PM

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A Nice and crunchy future

remote saffron Apr 8, 2019, 9:16 PM

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😢

supple timber Apr 8, 2019, 9:18 PM

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nvm

vagrant pulsar Apr 8, 2019, 11:19 PM

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how many people have released something theyve worked on like 10 years and it ended up being completely looked over

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i feel like thatd be common

harsh brook Apr 8, 2019, 11:27 PM

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time =/= quality

lilac walrus Apr 9, 2019, 7:27 AM

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that's a big list of studios, most of whom I wouldn't consider working for, haha

indigo token Apr 9, 2019, 4:45 PM

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Are art tests for a company after you get interviewed?

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Like I’m guessing it’s apply > interview > art test

digital gate Apr 9, 2019, 4:58 PM

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Depends, sometimes it'll be the other way round

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Typically, as a programmer, I see

Apply -> Phone screen -> Test/interview
-> the other -> any additional process that company has

flat gazelle Apr 9, 2019, 6:15 PM

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Art tests are usually after on site interview

indigo token Apr 9, 2019, 9:35 PM

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Gotcha

harsh brook Apr 10, 2019, 5:09 AM

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all my art tests have been before interviews

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but I'm not local with any of the studios I'v gone through that process with

indigo token Apr 10, 2019, 5:03 PM

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Ah alright

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I’ve got another question as well, a little basic but

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I know that there are a lot of game environments that have characters in them, for example statues of people

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Would character artists handle the statues of the characters, or would environment artists have to handle that?

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Cause it is part of the environment but that would be something a character artist would do

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But I’m not sure if an environment artist would have to do that anyways

west sonnet Apr 10, 2019, 6:19 PM

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Typically you’d just reuse a character or base character that the character artist has already made. You’d pose them however you want and convert it to a static mesh. The environment artist would be expected to texture it and remap if necessary.

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In the case where the statue is more unique, the character artist will usually sculpt one. It depends on the studio and what man hours can be spared.

balmy thunder Apr 10, 2019, 6:31 PM

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Do we have anyone here who's working in japan or aware of the state of affairs in japanese gamedev from inside?

delicate apex Apr 10, 2019, 9:11 PM

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afaik it's nothing special there

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well, companies might be smaller

flat gazelle Apr 11, 2019, 5:18 AM

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I've done a lecture tour at various companies in Japan so I got a small glimpse into it.

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It varied a lot. Nintendo was super strict while Capcom and Kojima seemed very western and so on.

patent mountain Apr 11, 2019, 4:15 PM

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Hello UE4 fam, How much should I charge someone for tutoring UE4 in the USA?

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For someone with 3+ years of fulltime ue4 experience...

honest cipher Apr 11, 2019, 4:28 PM

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whatever you would charge for freelancing

left otter Apr 11, 2019, 5:01 PM

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Whatever they will pay

patent mountain Apr 11, 2019, 5:36 PM

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25$ 50$ 15$

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just unsure where to even start

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its going to be related to oculus Go development

digital gate Apr 11, 2019, 5:38 PM

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Factor in the prep time, actual time, and whether you like tutoring. If you don't have a real rate then guess.

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$40+ is good

patent mountain Apr 11, 2019, 5:54 PM

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Thanks guys

hybrid phoenix Apr 11, 2019, 7:22 PM

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Also factor in that tutoring is generally seen as something more expensive than simply being someone's code-monkey, for instance

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Because you're creating your own competition in teaching them how to do your job

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You're teaching people how not to need you on a longer term

patent mountain Apr 11, 2019, 7:54 PM

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im like about to send a proposal and im scared im either aiming too low or too high

flat gazelle Apr 11, 2019, 8:11 PM

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When I did VFX tutoring for studios (small groups) I charged $90/h. I spent 1 hour prep for every 30 minute of lecture. And 90 minutes feedback on assignment. So I charged for three hours per session per week.

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I have 10+ years experience if that helps guide the rate.

patent mountain Apr 11, 2019, 8:12 PM

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yes it does

flat gazelle Apr 11, 2019, 8:12 PM

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It's always scary to send.

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In the end it's not up to them. Charge what you need.

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They may decline, but you will find new clients.

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Don't aim for bare minimum. Do your calculations of what you need to make to keep the lights on every month. Divide that with the number of hours you expect to work. I.E if you are freelancing, don't expect much more than 100h per month billable. Then you add some to make sure you have room for bad months. Add some for savings/pension/vacationpay/tax/anything else you need and you have your hourly rate.

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Estimate how much time you will spend on the tutoring, multiply that with the rate and you have a starting point for your fee.

patent mountain Apr 11, 2019, 8:18 PM

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I think for a first client, I want to charge 30$ I don't expect to make a living off tutoring at this point, but who knows

flat gazelle Apr 11, 2019, 8:19 PM

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It's your call. You won't be able to raise it later if you decide to go all in on it. "This time it's 60$", is not going to fly if they previously paid 30.

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Or if their friends paid 30

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If it's a sidehustle that won't make or break it for you, 30 is alright.

patent mountain Apr 11, 2019, 8:21 PM

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that makes a lot of sense

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but doesnt make my decision any less scary lmao

flat gazelle Apr 11, 2019, 8:22 PM

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I know 😄

patent mountain Apr 11, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Alright, thank you

tough remnant Apr 12, 2019, 6:43 AM

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Hey there, folks!
I am UE4 Generalist/C++ Programmer (3 years of experience) and mostly specialize in engine & tools programming.
Could you plz give me your thoughts on UE4 REMOTE-only job? PLz no stuff like single-person MMORPG development. I really like engine/tools development 😃

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From what I know there are many Unity REMOTE-only positions

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but about Unreal, I am not sure

spice dagger Apr 12, 2019, 7:01 AM

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What do you mean exactly?

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If your looking for work specifically. Please post a Job Listing in #looking-for-work

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@tough remnant

tough remnant Apr 12, 2019, 7:04 AM

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@spice dagger I mean I want to know what was people experience working remotely and using UE4?

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Because there are so little positions and literally 0 useful information

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ehhm, probably wrong chat

spice dagger Apr 12, 2019, 7:05 AM

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What type of information are you looking for?

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Ive been working remotely exclusively with UE4 since its release.

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I have not had any issues with it.

tough remnant Apr 12, 2019, 7:17 AM

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What type of information are you looking for?
How hard it is to start working remotely using UE4 these days? I mean since there are only few positions competition might be tight?
Also do you do freelance or full-time job?

spice dagger Apr 12, 2019, 7:18 AM

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Im a freelance, its a fulltime job for me though.

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Everyones experience is different. There is work out there.

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You just have to be persistent

tough remnant Apr 12, 2019, 7:19 AM

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As for freelance, you find job via Upwork or through your own network?

spice dagger Apr 12, 2019, 7:19 AM

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Make sure to always work on your portfolio as well.

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Networking mostly but i still keep a forum thread going for when i have spare time i can commit to smaller stuff.

tough remnant Apr 12, 2019, 7:21 AM

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Additionally, I am planning to travel from time to time and was wondering whether laptop would be enough for UE4 job out there. From my understanding good laptop would be good, but still not sure whether I need to rent a dedicated server to support myself 😃

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Well, I guesss I'll never know until I try. Thank you man!

dull acorn Apr 12, 2019, 6:20 PM

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I use a laptop for ue4 and everything works perfectly @tough remnant

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Mines a gaming laptop tho

patent mountain Apr 13, 2019, 2:58 AM

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so

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i got the job

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30$ an hour

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the guy said it was super cheap

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im such an idiot, oh well, live and learn

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pop some virtual champagne

patent mountain Apr 13, 2019, 3:27 AM

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@tough remnant i literally just got the job you are talking about, teaching ue4 remotely (from home), and it was due to the fact that i talk a lot with our local UE4 meetup organizer, so pretty much networking, ive been searching online for jobs on glassdoor and such but ue4 rarely pops up anything, c++ as well not too much in the area im in but a lot more than ue4... i'd say network as much as possible

tough remnant Apr 13, 2019, 8:32 AM

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@dull acorn @patent mountain thank you for sharing this. I have gaming laptop too since I need good gpu for work. Probably need to move project on SSD to speed up development

dull acorn Apr 13, 2019, 11:10 AM

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SSD saved my life lol @tough remnant

tough remnant Apr 13, 2019, 12:47 PM

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😄

regal thistle Apr 13, 2019, 4:23 PM

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Hi guys, just want to ask a small question about getting involved with indie games. I've spent the best part of a year really honing my sound design skills as well as learning middleware/engine integration. I come from a background of working on films and TV shows with sound/music, so it was more transferring my skills to gaming. I really want to get involved in projects and get the ball rolling. However, all the teams I join are either super flakey or no one is really that passionate about what they are doing. Has anyone got any advice on where to look for projects to be involved in?

flat gazelle Apr 13, 2019, 4:33 PM

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Go for established studios. A bit more likely that they at least have someone who knows what they are doing behind the wheel.

karmic kayak Apr 14, 2019, 7:17 AM

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randoms working over the internet on a "project" =! indie tho

plucky hatch Apr 14, 2019, 11:08 AM

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? actually don't get that at all, anyone making a game not in a big company is an indie, maybe without good marketing/ a professional involved it might not make much, but a game is a game

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 11:41 AM

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If you don't earn a living by making games, you're not an indie, you're a hobbyist

plucky hatch Apr 14, 2019, 11:43 AM

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no you are an indie

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if you make games

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independently

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that's what the expression is short for

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 1:54 PM

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yeah, no

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an 'Independent Game Developer' is a business that operates without publisher backing

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it can be an individual, multiple people, whatever - but ostensibly we're talking about people who do this for a living, or at least attempt to

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A couple of kids busking on the street with a guitar is no more an "Independent Artist"

plucky hatch Apr 14, 2019, 4:32 PM

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But someone busking on the street is an independent artist. How good that art is and/or how profitable it is will vary a lot but they are still artists. Anyone who ever draws a picture is an artist at that moment regardless of the quality.

flat gazelle Apr 14, 2019, 5:10 PM

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Could we perhaps limit it to someone who at least shipped a game, as it's a profession? At least for the purposes of this channel. I once wrestled with my brother, but I wouldn' label myself an independent fighter and start eyeing the octagon.

remote saffron Apr 14, 2019, 5:38 PM

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so if you are working on a game for 3 years, you are not an indie dev until release day, where you suddenly become one kappa

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Independent Game Developer in itself doesn't really mean a business, at least not according to wikipedia 🤷

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:41 PM

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That's why the definition's so iffy to solidify

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I'd call myself an indie dev

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I think quite a few people here would agree

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:41 PM

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the definition got iffy when hobbyists appropriated the label :/

plucky hatch Apr 14, 2019, 5:41 PM

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Me too, even though I am probably trash

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:41 PM

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I haven't shipped, though

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:41 PM

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it's like when "indie" in music started to refer to a genre

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:41 PM

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I dont think there's anything wrong with distinguishing hobbyist (non-commercial) and indie (commercial, independent)

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:42 PM

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^

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:42 PM

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But is it about intent or facts?

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:42 PM

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if anything the distinction is beneficial

remote saffron Apr 14, 2019, 5:42 PM

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only problem is that the term indie is not used like that in real life and there isn't anything suggesting that the term should be used that way

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:42 PM

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By data I'm hobbyist, by intent I'm not

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:42 PM

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And its less about previously shipping and more about intent and viability

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:42 PM

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aye

remote saffron Apr 14, 2019, 5:42 PM

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It would be better that way I agree tho

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:42 PM

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Viability is where it goes wrong

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People think they're viable when they're not

remote saffron Apr 14, 2019, 5:43 PM

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but just like everything else in the industry, this term is not properly defined 🤷

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:43 PM

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I agree that it should be part of the definition, but that's where it becomes incredibly flexible

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:43 PM

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So if you intend to make money and can be expected to do so, indie. If you just wanna tinker, hobbyist

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:43 PM

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it is defined, it's been misappropriated :/

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:43 PM

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Because viability is often perceived when it shouldn't

remote saffron Apr 14, 2019, 5:43 PM

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where is it defiened @lilac walrus ?

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:43 PM

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and "independent developer" is a game developer that operates without publisher backing

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note that 'developer' refers to an entity, not an individual

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:44 PM

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I know lots of teams that think they're viable. I'm pretty sure they aren't, though

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:44 PM

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haha

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:44 PM

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We could give up and go with 'hobbyist indie' and 'commercial indie'

remote saffron Apr 14, 2019, 5:44 PM

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fortunately I know that I'm not viable so I don't have that problem kappa

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:45 PM

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But even then, if the commercial part is about intent, then there's lots of people that intend to make money but are in no way able to

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:45 PM

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quick readup on the Wiki article suggests it would entirely agree with that above defintion

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:45 PM

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At that point it'd have to be whether you are sustainable

plucky hatch Apr 14, 2019, 5:46 PM

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Can you explain the need for a distinction, why can't people say 'commercially viable indie' vs 'not viable indie'

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Also some people don't care about profitability if they have other income or money saved.

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:46 PM

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Because it saves a lot of energy educating people and can help you set expectations with your audience.

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:46 PM

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if profitability doesn't matter, you're a hobbyist

plucky hatch Apr 14, 2019, 5:46 PM

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If yoiu're unsuccessful doesn't mean you don't exist

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:47 PM

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and managing expectation is really useful

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:47 PM

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I suppose that's a good one

remote saffron Apr 14, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

and how do you make a difference between a hobbyist who spends 2 hours / week and one who worked on a game full time for 3 years? 🤔

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

When indie can describe the team behind hellblade, do you really want consumers lumping your 3 guy remote studio in there?

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

Hobbyists that think they're viable tend to want to make money, but they don't worry about how profitable it'll be

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

Also I know it can't describe them anymore

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

While commercial indies do both of those

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

Hellblade is an indie game, yes

#

it's a good one

#

your three guy remote studio is what a 30 man studio is to a 300 person monolith

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

Yup

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

if profitability doesn't matter, you're a hobbyist
This is one of the few definitions where I feel like I'm not being lumped in with the people that I think are hopeful incompetents (to put it bluntly)

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:48 PM

#

this is why we have definitions like AA and AAA to define scope

#

you can be super competent, and still be a hobbyist

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:49 PM

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Right, but that's another part of the distinction

#

There's a lot of those "indies" that don't know shit about making games, but do want to make money

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:49 PM

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So go tell somebody who is on the verge of apathy that you're a 'micro indie' and all they'll hear is 'bad indie'

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:50 PM

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I wouldn't call those commercial indies

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

Well yeah

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

That said, in my experience those people don't care about profitability so much

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

I'd struggle to call them functional hobbyists

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

But those are the people that often get the "Indie" tag

#

x3

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:51 PM

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no, they give it to themselves

#

that's where all this confusion has come from

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

Aye

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:51 PM

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people have latched on to it, muddying things horribly

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

Right, agreed

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

It'd be really hard to clarify now, were better off with a new term

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:52 PM

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I can really get behind the "Commercial Indie - Indie with concerns of profitability" and "Hobbyist Indie - Indie that doesn't worry about profitability" line of thought because of that

karmic kayak Apr 14, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

"indie" mostly leaves an sour taste in peoples mouth now after the term was indeed appropriated by hobbyists (as pointed out by ambershee)

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

I'd be cool with a III II I system but I is still not applicable for 3 man teams who don't know their craft

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:53 PM

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Most of those teams that think they're viable when they're not tend not to be concerned about their profits

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:53 PM

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there are teams of all scales lacking competency

hybrid phoenix Apr 14, 2019, 5:53 PM

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They just also have a distant thought of "We want to make money"

flat gazelle Apr 14, 2019, 5:53 PM

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HHH: Hobbyists who have been failing for many years! 😃

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:53 PM

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So you disagree?

plucky hatch Apr 14, 2019, 5:53 PM

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Maybe I wil start calling myself an indie if/when I earn enough from making games to live off it. I think that's a fair distinction

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:53 PM

#

There ya go

#

Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:54 PM

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I think if you start making a living from games it is fair to call yourself an indie

#

assuming you are indeed making your own games

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:54 PM

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Advertise the game as a 'Hobbyist venture' lol

lilac walrus Apr 14, 2019, 5:55 PM

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that's how Stardew Valley started, hehe

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:55 PM

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That'd be a unique thing these days, really help you stand out vs 'indie titles'

flat gazelle Apr 14, 2019, 5:56 PM

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I've worked with two Indie teams. One of them had a bunch of ex AAA and the other was headed up by an original dreamworks producer. Neither had any backing from publishers and neither labled themselves as indie.

#

As indie is usually seen as hobbyist these days. I like the commercial distinction above

#

I think it's rough to rock up to a VC these days and introduce yourself as indie

digital gate Apr 14, 2019, 5:58 PM

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Well then.

#

Maybe we do need a new term for commercial Indies lol

#

Let em have indie

harsh brook Apr 14, 2019, 8:55 PM

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I would argue the problem lies more with distribution than the terms to describe production

strong shoal Apr 15, 2019, 12:47 AM

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I know everytime I've mentioned indie worked it either killed the interview or gave me a short amount of time to explain that I got paid for a serious job

harsh brook Apr 15, 2019, 12:52 AM

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I've only had that happen with recruiters, when talking with people who work on the games they tend to be more interested in what I did and what I could bring to their team

strong shoal Apr 15, 2019, 12:56 AM

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True, that's where it comes from. I need to learn how to talk to them

plucky hatch Apr 15, 2019, 1:40 PM

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Yes just seduce with sweet sexy charm

regal thistle Apr 15, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

hey everyone! not been on to see this. I read through the chat and it seems that the definition of indie is somewhat disputed. To rephrase... I am looking for projects to work on as a sound designer. Does anyone have any advice on where to look?

supple timber Apr 15, 2019, 2:54 PM

#

is a degree needed for game development?

digital gate Apr 15, 2019, 3:22 PM

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No, but you won't get out of putting in the effort to learn

supple timber Apr 15, 2019, 3:24 PM

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@digital gate wdym?

digital gate Apr 15, 2019, 3:25 PM

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You'll want to go beyond just making things work

supple timber Apr 15, 2019, 3:28 PM

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like?

regal thistle Apr 15, 2019, 3:57 PM

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well... degree or not. There is an absolute shedload of stuff to learn just to get the very basics to work, it's the same as doing tradition technical profession like being an architect, engineer or a mechanic. You can never stop learning and you have to put in a hell of a lot of work to get to a good level.

mystic hull Apr 15, 2019, 3:58 PM

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Degree or not, you'll spend a lot of time learning and honing your skills

#

I.e., if you dont bother to get the degree, you'll likely put the exact same amount of effort (if not more, self teaching is probably more effort) in learning the same stuff

#

there's no easy way around it, but myself & a few I know are fully self-taught

#

I personally managed to get web-based jobs with relative ease, penetrating the game dev industry on the other hand was hell (kinda still is xD)

frigid ridge Apr 15, 2019, 4:15 PM

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Some people are good at what they do and some people are not. It is best to find what you are good at and excel in that area. Being a game developer takes a high level of critical thinking skills. Just by the questions that were asked, I don't think the critical thinking is were it should be for game development. I compare it to when I wanted to be a skater or a guitarist. I saw others doing what I wanted to be able to do. I saw how things were done but I had to come to the realization that these things are natural to those that excel at what they are good at. I could have spent my who life learning something that does not come natural to me. I might have gotten better at these things with practice but I had to realize that these things don't come natural to me and that I would struggle. It better to figure that out early than wasting valuable time.

harsh brook Apr 15, 2019, 8:37 PM

#

I wouldn't say find what you're good at. Find what you enjoy doing because if you want to get to a high level you will have to do the work to get there. 'Natural talent' only takes you so far and I don't know a single dev that skates by on their natural ability.

zinc gale Apr 15, 2019, 8:41 PM

#

lol. received today

📎 unknown.png

hybrid phoenix Apr 15, 2019, 8:51 PM

#

Not a recruiter
Proceeds to list the vaguest roles ever

#

You sure you're not a recruiter?

plucky hatch Apr 15, 2019, 9:35 PM

#

Well is it possible to get great at everything? Isn't that why big companies split up so they can recruit people who are very good at specific game areas? If you are solo unless you are extremely smart maybe you are better off getting just average at everything. Then if you want in a big company focus on one skill set. Btw I am unemployed and live with my mum

tacit heath Apr 15, 2019, 9:38 PM

#

What would interest me is, what skills do you at least need to have a basic understanding of to get an entry position in a studio?
I mean, besides being proficient at UE4 ?

I thought of stuff like:
-computer graphics
-math
-realtime physics
-design patterns
-network programming
-databases
-shader programming

did I miss anything?

#

... ah ofc as a programmer :p

zinc gale Apr 15, 2019, 9:41 PM

#

@hybrid phoenix ofc the company in the email address is billed as "the premier global provider of outsourced quality assurance, engineering, customer experience, translation, localization, interactive voice..."

west sonnet Apr 15, 2019, 9:41 PM

#

programmer of what?

hybrid phoenix Apr 15, 2019, 9:41 PM

#

🤔

#

But they're definitely not a recruiter!

#

They just...

#

Ya know

#

Find people for outsourcing

#

...

zinc gale Apr 15, 2019, 9:42 PM

#

the guy's LinkedIn says "I'm a HR Jedi"

hybrid phoenix Apr 15, 2019, 9:42 PM

#

Uh-huh

#

Real Jedi he is. it seems

tacit heath Apr 15, 2019, 9:43 PM

#

gameplay

west sonnet Apr 15, 2019, 9:43 PM

#

wonder how they define recruiter in their mind 😛

tacit heath Apr 15, 2019, 9:43 PM

#

@west sonnet

#

for gameplay programming. not engine or tools

zinc gale Apr 15, 2019, 9:44 PM

#

... i got my start in this business just knowing the UDK editor pretty much inside and out, being proficient in UnrealScript, and being able to talk a good talk about optimizing games for mobile platforms (which i based entirely on experience optimizing games to run on old PCs, at the time)

#

turned down a job offer last year about this time, due to my total lack of proficiency in C++ though -- until now I hadn't used it in 30 years

tacit heath Apr 15, 2019, 9:45 PM

#

thats good to know! since I am at the moment thinking about how to structure my freetime. Since I am a self taught dev

#

and the above posted plan is what I found when searching for job offers and reading into what game programming degrees cover

#

but, if time is better invested in simply keep making stuff in UE4, then I will scrap that

zinc gale Apr 15, 2019, 9:48 PM

#

interestingly, in my 3 years i spent in games, i was never once asked a completely irrelevant comp sci question, but that's all I face in interviews outside of gaming. Despite comp sci probably being far more useful in games than in web and back end dev

#

and being self taught, as well, my comp sci knowledge is really only "things that i've needed in the last 30 years" rather than "things they teach in school"

tacit heath Apr 15, 2019, 9:51 PM

#

yeah, it is kind of a weird thing... I got some friends in the non-gaming world who were going the traditional way of studying cs and now have a job where they only program datasets into databases, using the same pattern over and over and never using the stuff they learned but the company is only hiring cs grads

#

but things are slowly going to change (at least here), since we have a far larger number of open programmer positions than we have university grads in cs

zinc gale Apr 15, 2019, 10:06 PM

#

"make the fastest algorithm that can tell me if any two values in an array add up to 10" . . . really? really?

#

proceeded to point out how worst case the "correct" answer to it was not scalable to an infinitely sized array, because of memory allocation, and did not get that job. lol

#

"assume an infinitely sized array" "assume an infinite amount of memory" ... "should i also assume that an infinite amount of memory can be allocated in no time at all?"

#

he wanted the CS answer, I gave practical answers. oh well 😄

tacit heath Apr 15, 2019, 10:19 PM

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Yeah I feel you :D
I mean ... you could eat two books about coding interview questions and most likely find all that stuff, repeat the answer and the interviewer won't care if you actually understood what you were repeating there or simply presented something you memorized....

#

But I don't know... if I were hiring a web developer I would actually care for if that guy gets stuff done and knows how to handle the frameworks relevant for the job lol

#

the rest kinda feels irrelevant ... I mean I suppose you were not applying for a Job at NASA writing their next mars expedition program

zinc gale Apr 15, 2019, 10:22 PM

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the absolutely most valuable thing in my career (outside of gaming) has been ability to get functional in new languages in short time. I've just done 5 years of almost nothing but Javascript, in November "hey, we're writing this next thing in C#" .. "ok, now port this thing to Unreal"

#

previous to that 5 years of javascript, i did python and unrealscript.

tacit heath Apr 15, 2019, 10:23 PM

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guess thats a great ability to have

digital gate Apr 15, 2019, 10:56 PM

#

Being able to pick up and go is really awesome

topaz jungle Apr 16, 2019, 8:54 PM

#

Hey there! Just wanted to pick some tips and advices up on how to get into the industry and surviving etc. Here's some personal info about myself: I'm a self thaught 15 year old, who's going to a gymnasium (if you want to know what it exactly is tag me) in germany. I love playing all kinds of video games and I really like to understand and recreate gameplay mechanics from those played games. I would say im good in visual scripting but less in c++ since i've just started learning it. Btw not the best in math. So I'd like to know which degrees I should complete and how I get into the industry

tacit heath Apr 16, 2019, 9:10 PM

#

I am not an industry veteran, but if I were 15 again I would do the following.

use my freetime learning ue4, which you seem to do
try to become good at least decent in math (it does help)
go and study something after school that is relevant for the job. for games, I would either get something from a games school, a game programming degree or the smartest choice would probably be getting a degree in computer science with an emphasis on media (medieninformatik 😉 ) since it would open up more job opportunities than a gaming school or a degree as games programmer

I struggled with math in school and college and am pretty good at it now. School demands you to learn math for the sake of having a brought education and it can be tedious and boring. But if you learn things to achieve something you really want to do, even scary looking things like math will become absolutely doable.

harsh brook Apr 16, 2019, 9:31 PM

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just play around till you find what you like to do the earlier you start the better but everyone goes through the same process to learn how to make games

topaz jungle Apr 16, 2019, 9:40 PM

#

Thanks guys thats already a huge help!

proud ledge Apr 17, 2019, 3:17 AM

#

@tacit heath I’m looking into taking AP Principles of Computer Science next year, although from some other people I’ve heard mixed things on how useful it actually is

tacit heath Apr 17, 2019, 9:42 AM

#

I think it really heavily depends on the program and your age and your possibilities.... at least where I live. Firstly I know some people who were not even close to be able to finish their cs program at a certain university, then they switched to another one, studied the exact same subject and got through flawlessly and the school you got your degree from doesn' really matter that much here. Secondly, some programs seems to be great while others seem to be something you only suffer through to get a paper claiming you are an expert now. So I would heavily rely on what grads from a certain program are doing now and what the program even offers. I think it is also a question of your age and background. I am for example 29 years old. I am self-taught so far. I do have a degree in another subject. And when I look at most cs programs that are not highly academic, they have soooo much general education in it that in my position, I would not consider them, since I don't want to go through all the economics, leadership, academic writing and project management courses again that all applied studies are including. What I sometimes consider is going to a private school that specifically offers specialized degrees in game programming. But, if I were below 25, didn't have a degree yet and no stuff that I need to take care of, I would go to college and try to get a cs degree, with opportunities to specialize in stuff like computer graphics or even directly game development.

#

But yeah, from what I saw so far, people are still coming from all crazy directions. And that even seems to be the case in bigger studios. I talked to many people since I had similar questions and while some had traditional cs degrees, an equally amount had degrees in film making, electronics, economics or even no degree at all. So yeah, I think cs degrees in general are definitely a good option, but not mandatory. Also the problem that I often heard of is that a cs degree does not make you a good programmer or a programmer at all and is in some cases even almost completely irrelevant to what you want to do afterwards - therefore I would choose my way very wisely. I think the biggest point towards a cs degree that you have better options to get a laid back job, once you want to leave the games industry, since many big big "normal-industry" companies still only consider cs grads.

steel creek Apr 17, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

I took AP CS in 12th. It was worth it, but I also went CS in college, so.

#

If you are aiming for CS or even CE, more math and logic is never bad

frigid bridge Apr 17, 2019, 5:46 PM

#

So I dont know if I've ever actually talked in this chat but I just sent in my portfolio for SCAD for possible scholarships so uh wish me luck!

#

crawls back into my hole

remote saffron Apr 17, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

googles what SCAD is

harsh brook Apr 17, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

Math/physics knowledge will carry you pretty far, especially linear algebra and differential equations. CS itself isn't hard its just learning a language and once you learn one it gets easier to learn the next. The logic is the more important part that can't be taught easily.

tacit heath Apr 17, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

and the good thing is that 90% is linear algebra and once you got this quite accessible field of math you can expand on it quite easily

plucky hatch Apr 17, 2019, 8:42 PM

#

I forgot 99% of my maths degree

fickle hatch Apr 17, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

I continued my thesis work and built my current job as an extension of things I did at the university uh, in spite of what I was supposed to be doing during that time

vernal kraken Apr 17, 2019, 9:49 PM

#

math transcends time and space

hallow tide Apr 17, 2019, 10:44 PM

#

oh

#

sorry

#

how od i use it

plucky hatch Apr 17, 2019, 11:53 PM

#

bruhhh

brave owl Apr 20, 2019, 12:03 AM

#

@Kanna Kamui#8619 it's been my experience that computer scientists will avoid programming, pure compsci people anyway.

#

They can sit and theorise between ideas for hours but actually implementing? That's getting their hands dirty :p

#

Basically academia Vs real world

karmic kayak Apr 20, 2019, 11:36 AM

#

<@&213101288538374145> links like this one shouldn't be allowed.. infact i think they arent. 😄

ashen lynx Apr 20, 2019, 11:36 AM

#

shady

snow yarrow Apr 20, 2019, 11:38 AM

#

he pmd me a few hours ago. So I assume he did it to a whole range of other users aswell

spice dagger Apr 20, 2019, 11:38 AM

#

@subtle socket Use the Job board please.

indigo token Apr 20, 2019, 1:35 PM

#

Guys know of any good companies to apply to whose crunch isn't as brutal as ND or SE's?

flat gazelle Apr 20, 2019, 3:08 PM

#

Ubisoft is the least crunchy I've worked at so far.

#

But I'm only a year into this studio so it might be too early to tell. Paid overtime does speak against crunch though.

shadow kelp Apr 20, 2019, 3:10 PM

#

+1 for Ubisoft here

indigo token Apr 20, 2019, 4:49 PM

#

Gotcha, I’ll try to tailor my portfolio to that studio. For artists who got in (not sure if you guys are) was your portfolio a lot of architecture I’m assuming?

west sonnet Apr 20, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

If you’re a character artist, have characters. If you’re environment artist, have environments. Etc etc. They will hire you based on their needs.

flat gazelle Apr 20, 2019, 5:08 PM

#

No architecture whatsoever, but then again I'm a vfx artist

harsh brook Apr 20, 2019, 5:35 PM

#

Do people flip flop between realistic/stylized very often? I definitely feel more at home in realistic but a jobs a job

flat gazelle Apr 20, 2019, 5:38 PM

#

I do what the game needs

#

Huh, I see myself as mostly realistic as well, but looking back I have shipped 8 stylized/cartoony games and only 7 realistic. It's probably that the realistic ones were usually bigger projects.

harsh brook Apr 20, 2019, 5:42 PM

#

Were the bulk of those after your tenor at EA?

flat gazelle Apr 20, 2019, 5:42 PM

#

I only did realistic at EA

harsh brook Apr 20, 2019, 5:43 PM

#

Oh ya but experience based did you stick with realism for those 10 years then spread out?

flat gazelle Apr 20, 2019, 5:43 PM

#

Nope

#

First game cartoony (Ice Age), second realism (Dead Space)

harsh brook Apr 20, 2019, 5:43 PM

#

I didn't know you did ice age thats cool haha

flat gazelle Apr 20, 2019, 5:44 PM

#

Then realistic (Goldeneye), then cartoony (Rio: The videogame). So I flopped between each project in my early years 😛

harsh brook Apr 20, 2019, 5:45 PM

#

Thats good to know thanks Glad

indigo token Apr 20, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

@west sonnet Apologies, by artists I did mean environment artists lol.

daring fern Apr 20, 2019, 9:21 PM

#

idk if i should post it here but hi everyone, im still new to game dev in ue4 and does anyone have any resources on terms i should know like "Hero Asset" and "lods"

indigo token Apr 21, 2019, 3:58 PM

#

Anyone know how Insomniac and Cloud Imperium Games deals with crunch? Do you get paid overtime or do they (hopefully not) work you to the bone?

steel creek Apr 21, 2019, 4:20 PM

#

I never worked Insomniac, but they are right next to us for years. I have never heard anyone from there complain about crunch. Spider-Man was definately 100% crunch free what what people have said.

woven temple Apr 21, 2019, 4:25 PM

#

I ask a props artist at CIG, and he reply me that (sorry for mistakes, the original reply was in french):

but since I'm like 6 months I think
I never did extra time```

indigo token Apr 21, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

Gotcha, thanks guys! Wanna get a good list of studios down to apply to that deal with crunch well

#

Regardless I will have to deal with crunch, no avoiding that, but

indigo token Apr 21, 2019, 10:41 PM

#

@steel creek Also, where do you work?

steel creek Apr 21, 2019, 10:53 PM

#

Disney

indigo token Apr 21, 2019, 10:53 PM

#

Ahhh

digital gate Apr 21, 2019, 11:27 PM

#

I used to just ask them to describe the worst crunch they've ever had.

indigo token Apr 22, 2019, 4:36 AM

#

What are some really difficult questions to watch out for when you're being interviewed as a 3D Artist? (More specifically a 3D Environment Artist)

lethal crystal Apr 22, 2019, 6:43 AM

#

hello

barren lotus Apr 23, 2019, 2:49 PM

#

@indigo token https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Insomniac-Games-Interview-Questions-E269543.htm

Glassdoor

Insomniac Games Interview Questions

Insomniac Games interview details: 38 interview questions and 32 interview reviews posted anonymously by Insomniac Games interview candidates.

indigo token Apr 23, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

Ah thanks!! Should look through this as well

elder mist Apr 23, 2019, 4:51 PM

#

I've just found recent Polygon article about Epic Games FN crunches. Is it ok to discuss this topic here?

granite brook Apr 23, 2019, 4:54 PM

#

I guess so? Either that or #industry-chat

elder mist Apr 23, 2019, 4:55 PM

#

@granite brook oh, right, i'll probably move there

tender canyon Apr 24, 2019, 3:58 PM

#

By any chance, anyone know what kinda work the Epic Games office in Bellevue does?

ashen lynx Apr 24, 2019, 3:59 PM

#

Likely, it is making games.

tender canyon Apr 24, 2019, 4:00 PM

#

🙄 Thanks. In my experience, oftentimes the remote offices do different work than HQ. Would somebody kindly give a serious response? Is it primarily DevOps/On call?

west sonnet Apr 24, 2019, 4:19 PM

#

Looking at their job postings is pretty telling https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/epic-games-jobs-bellevue-wa

Epic Games

Today's top 20 Epic Games jobs in Bellevue, WA. Leverage your professional network, and get hired. New Epic Games jobs added daily.

plucky hatch Apr 25, 2019, 9:24 AM

#

hey can some one help me with a battle royale game im starting to nake today

lucid dragon Apr 25, 2019, 4:49 PM

#

Has anyone here ever worked as a Production Assistant? If so what does/did your job mostly entail?

flat gazelle Apr 25, 2019, 4:55 PM

#

You mean Jira wrangler? 😛

west sonnet Apr 25, 2019, 5:01 PM

#

https://g.co/kgs/fp4oYR

vernal river Apr 25, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

I would love to build a battle Royale but i dont have enough experience with ue4 yet

flat gazelle Apr 25, 2019, 5:03 PM

#

I have worked with plenty of PA, PD, DD and other variants of the same thing of that's of any help

lucid dragon Apr 25, 2019, 5:38 PM

#

@flat gazelle Jira Wrangler, I like that😂

#

@flat gazelle I've taken a look at what High Tide has sent but could you some up what exactly their day to day tasks were if possible?

#

I'm just curious as I'd like to move into something a little different from QA

#

Freelance atm, inb4 anyone says go talk to production team😂

flat gazelle Apr 25, 2019, 5:44 PM

#

They handle coordination between teams, planning, jira, sprints and so on. It varies between companies. Producers are there to figure out how to build the game the directors want. PA s are there to make sure all leads have the info they need to carry out the plan.

#

Today the PA I work with helped me with a jira dashboard, set up a confluence page/template and booked a trip to an upcoming planning meeting.

lucid dragon Apr 25, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

Sounds interesting! I'm looking to apply for a position under PA so it's just nice to know what I could potentially be getting myself in for. I appreciate all the information you've provided Glad 😁👍🏼

shadow kelp Apr 26, 2019, 6:49 AM

#

project coordinators we call em...Jira Wrangling, travel booking, practical stuff like booking meeting rooms, organising standups, confluence stuff. Less interesting stuff like making sure mission critical systems like the coffee machine are stocked 😃

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:41 AM

#

you don't have automated systems for doing half of that?

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 7:43 AM

#

so a secretary but with a fancier name

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 7:45 AM

#

Seems like it's a nice way to work with all departments though, especially if you are new into the professional industry

spice dagger Apr 26, 2019, 7:47 AM

#

Office Bitch?

#

😛

vernal kraken Apr 26, 2019, 7:48 AM

#

or just backoffice

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 7:49 AM

#

That'd be the office team. They handle the non project stuff. Project coordinators tend to stay in the project realm

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:49 AM

#

^

#

but also, needing people to book meeting rooms, whut?

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 7:49 AM

#

Yeah that sounds strange

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:49 AM

#

you could solve that as easily as a Google Spreadsheet ffs

#

let alone using a real solution 😄

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 7:50 AM

#

Or, get IT to get their shit together and make them bookable in outlook

#

😃

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:50 AM

#

if you use Outlook, that is

#

I've worked in a few studios that don't

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 7:50 AM

#

Really?

#

Damn

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:50 AM

#

Backoffice is more prevalent

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 7:50 AM

#

Every single one I've been at has been using the office kit

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:51 AM

#

I've worked in places where Office is largely redundant because of other tools

#

Confluence with the right extensions can take on the role of Word / Visio and Excel all in one place, hehe

#

and it's integrated into other stuff like Jira

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 7:52 AM

#

But Confluence is distilled suffering!

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:52 AM

#

Confluence has problems, but for documentation I strongly prefer it over Office

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

Yeah me too. I just hate using it

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

Overall guys, do you think this is a good way to get my foot in the door professionally? As a PA? I'm a recent MA Graduate in Games Business and have only really worked in QA, looking at jobs it seems I can't be too fussy

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

make something

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

Depends what your endgoal is.

#

I've never seen a coordinator move into a content creator role.

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

but yeah, for 'Games Business' it's a bit more intangible, what do you actually want to do?

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

But they can move on to production

vernal kraken Apr 26, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

idk but if you want to become a producer, looking for an associate producer role might be better?

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 7:54 AM

#

Games Business implies publisher / distributor orientated roles more than development to me?

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 7:58 AM

#

i dont think why even do Confluence when other wiki systems exist

#

but anyway

#

for the word suite, Google Docs is amazin

#

all that online collaboration makes awesome working with other guy in the same document, More than once, ive written an essay with someone else at the same time

#

and what we did, is that i just wrote the essay at full speed, and the other guy went behind improving some sentences and fixing typos

#

easy multipage essay in a few minutes

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:05 AM

#

My end goal is to definitely be in a producer role but for a lot of the jobs I've looked into such as associate producer they always require at least 3 years industry experience. I feel as though a PA role can allow me to gain that experience whilst continuing to learn and understand the business nature

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 8:06 AM

#

every job always has that experience requirement

#

it'a daft

vernal kraken Apr 26, 2019, 8:06 AM

#

i'd apply for that role anyway

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 8:06 AM

#

but generally speaking hobbyist experience is assumed to count

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:06 AM

#

Agreed ambershee, it is daft

#

@vernal kraken I'll give it a shot!

vernal kraken Apr 26, 2019, 8:07 AM

#

you have a related masters, you have QA experience -> just apply and see what happens

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:08 AM

#

Yeah when you put it like that I guess I have nothing to lose. It's just self doubt I guess

vernal kraken Apr 26, 2019, 8:08 AM

#

that's what job ads do to people 😄

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:08 AM

#

And even then with those qualifications, I've been turned down for QA position so it's a kick in the teeth

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 8:09 AM

#

that will happen

vernal kraken Apr 26, 2019, 8:09 AM

#

maybe they thought you'd be overqualified 😛

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:09 AM

#

and? just spam everyone

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 8:09 AM

#

you may have the best qualifications in the world, but there are always other candidates who might have more

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:09 AM

#

and make a linkedin,and add ue4 people

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 8:09 AM

#

get used to it

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:09 AM

#

then you will get spammed by recruiters too

lilac walrus Apr 26, 2019, 8:10 AM

#

blergh, LinkedIn recruiters

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:10 AM

#

it was far too easy for me to get the job at pubg with linkedin. Got spammed, chose the most interesting offers, and just did all the interviews at once

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:11 AM

#

Yeah to be fair they did tell me why I didn't get the position, it was just that a few other candidates had a lot more QA experience than I which makes sense. Although they understood that I couldn't gain experience from my current role, so I was a bit like da fuck😂

#

Sounds like an aggressive job hunting tactic but seemed to have paid off for you Vblanco

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:12 AM

#

just follow the shotgun approach

#

@lucid dragon after getting spammed, i followed with about 10 of the offers

#

and did literally 10 multi-stage interviews of different kinds

#

its the best way. because if you get multiple final offers, you can choose the one you think is best

#

and if company A offers you X money, when company B asks for what salary, you tell them X + 20%

#

companies tend to have a lot of candidates in last stage and select the best, why are you not doing the exact same 🤔

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:15 AM

#

And this was all through LinkedIn or a combination of LinkedIn and applying?

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:16 AM

#

i did apply to a couple directly, but those took so long to answer that i already got the job

#

my favourite was ubisoft, they literally took 4 months to reply

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:16 AM

#

Yeah I've had the same with Ubisoft

spice dagger Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

LinkedIn is good if your prepared to move lol

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

It's like 4 months after you've applied to a point where you forget you even applied

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

you should be prepared to move

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

I've moved around before

spice dagger Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

Its easier said than done for some.

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

the reason i was able to apply to so many jobs is because i was cool with moving anywhere in europe

spice dagger Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

Like me.

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

Had to move to Manchester to work with TT for a while

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

in fact, i actively avoided spanish recruiters

lucid dragon Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

Wasn't so bad

spice dagger Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

But im not looking for a job so 🤷 😃

honest cipher Apr 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

i 100% knew they were going to offer me crap salary so not even bothering

#

specially funnier when most of the spanish recruiters were offering me webdev or java

#

and im like... literally the entire profile is high end C++ programming

#

damn automated spammers

#

not exactly. They were literally asking for "experience in webdev",when i have literally 0 webdev in profile

#

its like "i dont even have the requirements you ask, wtf you doing"

#

most of this spammers mostly work by following networks

#

so if yo get a linkedin, gotta add connection to as many other developers as possible

#

thats probably why i get spammed so much

#

a great CV of course

#

the fun part is that this pointless spam is mostly from the spanish recruiters

#

that are just looking for spanish + programmer and send their spam

stoic raven Apr 26, 2019, 5:18 PM

#

@plucky hatch Hola amigo, como estas ?:)

kindred mason Apr 26, 2019, 5:27 PM

#

ni hao

tender canyon Apr 26, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

@west sonnet Nice, I was looking for something like this but I didn't check LinkedIn

supple timber Apr 26, 2019, 9:56 PM

#

i am starting to heavily question this career path

#

i dont think that i have a bright future in game dev

flat gazelle Apr 26, 2019, 10:19 PM

#

why is that?

supple timber Apr 26, 2019, 11:39 PM

#

Idk

#

I don't think that I can find a job

#

@flat gazelle

mortal raven Apr 27, 2019, 2:59 AM

#

Then don't. Fuck um. Make your own games and enjoy doing it. If you make money doing it, awesome. If you don't, keep working on your art and yourself. Have a good life. Enjoy trees and sunshine. Do literally anything else away from computers and if you really still want to make games after that, then you should do it.

#

But if you don't think you can do it, and that saddens you, better buckle down boss. Because believe me, even after you do get your first AAA job, you'll feel like you're about to lose it every other week. Sometimes every other day.

#

I say, enjoy doing what you do, and do it well.

#

If a job is gonna happen it'll be because you did that.

supple timber Apr 27, 2019, 7:49 AM

#

@mortal raven thanks for the advice

rain swan Apr 27, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

I really want to make games

#

but im actually 23 and not doing that yet for career

#

keep putting it off till later cause I dont really know how to do it

#

I mean, I have general programming degree.

#

and noone seems to want me for games

#

even though I know a lot about doing it

#

Any advice?

night dock Apr 27, 2019, 4:43 PM

#

Where would I go to hire someone to make a very basic lobby system which when round starts transfers everyone to a different map carrying over a couple variables.

#

and what would the general costs me?

digital gate Apr 27, 2019, 5:25 PM

#

@night dock @rain swan y'all made for each other Kappa

night dock Apr 27, 2019, 5:25 PM

#

Confused. most of my game is complete at this point, im just trying to figure out multiplayer now..

digital gate Apr 27, 2019, 5:28 PM

#

Basic implementation of your ask might start around $150 depending on who you hire

night dock Apr 27, 2019, 5:28 PM

#

perfect, and good to know 😃 around what I'd like to pay so sounds fine

#

thank you

digital gate Apr 27, 2019, 5:30 PM

#

#looking-for-talent though

#

Tellrog, #looking-for-work

sage urchin Apr 27, 2019, 11:02 PM

#

what to do if you have a million dollar prototype

#

lol

safe cove Apr 28, 2019, 1:39 AM

#

Lemme check if that truly is a million worth @sage urchin

sage urchin Apr 28, 2019, 1:44 AM

#

probably more like a hundred bucks

safe cove Apr 28, 2019, 1:48 AM

#

Lemme check if that truly is a hundred worth @sage urchin

sage urchin Apr 28, 2019, 1:51 AM

#

i'll give it to you for 50

#

@safe cove

safe cove Apr 28, 2019, 2:07 AM

#

I'm gonna check for sell afterwards :P

sterile comet Apr 28, 2019, 11:17 AM

#

@rain swan I dunno where you live, but check and see if there's internships going in any game companies you're close to

#

I'm doing that at 26 and I forgot to learn UE4 beforehand and now i'm doing a test for it and i'm learning everything as I answer the questions aaaaa

rain swan Apr 28, 2019, 5:25 PM

#

I live down the street from epic games

#

lol

harsh brook Apr 28, 2019, 6:45 PM

#

doing an internship at 24 happier with that than a non-game position

#

was having issues like yours last year but literally this past year has only been asset creation, worked part time, barely saw friends, and am single af but my art and understanding has piqued significantly

plucky hatch Apr 29, 2019, 6:53 AM

#

@supple timber if you feel you don't have what it takes, find some people here, pitch an idea and ask them to join you with it

round belfry Apr 30, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

Question: What exactly do they mean when they say "shipped a game". Just worked on a game that ended up as a finished product?

kindred mason Apr 30, 2019, 2:13 AM

#

"Shipped game" usually means launched on a major platform @round belfry such as Steam, PSN, XBOX, Switch etc

#

Sometimes, most times, that means you were there when the product actually launched (so all the way to the end). But, it depends a lot on what they are looking for.

round belfry Apr 30, 2019, 2:17 AM

#

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It doesn't really seem to mean anything specific though with your role in regards to the project. It makes sense in and indie context, but in a triple AAA setting where it's debatable how much impact and a role you play it doesn't seem to mean as much.

#

It just seemed strange that this request is so standard through triple AAA and indie job postings.

spice dagger Apr 30, 2019, 2:22 AM

#

Its more about knowing that you have seen a products development cycle than anything else i think.

round belfry Apr 30, 2019, 2:28 AM

#

That makes sense. I guess it just gets a little fuzzy when you get brought in half way through a project.

kindred mason Apr 30, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

Right

#

A LOT OF SHIT USUALLY GOES DOWN IN A FULL DEV CYCLE

#

So, if you have been exposed to that level of shit already

#

They won't have wasted time on people who may quit mid-way

#

That's my take on it anyway

round belfry Apr 30, 2019, 2:30 AM

#

I was half-thinking of the game I'm working on where I'm having work with someone else's code base to try to get this thing out the door.

kindred mason Apr 30, 2019, 2:30 AM

#

Helps also with the in-processing/on-boarding

round belfry Apr 30, 2019, 2:30 AM

#

IMO I should get even more credit

kindred mason Apr 30, 2019, 2:30 AM

#

With total newbies, there's a lot to teach and for them to take in

#

With experienced people, there's less

harsh brook Apr 30, 2019, 3:25 AM

#

Its also not a must have, I have zero AAA titles shipped but still got interviews

flat gazelle Apr 30, 2019, 5:20 AM

#

Shipping experience is more relevant for Senior roles. Don't want seniors that get spooked when it's darling killing time for example.

vernal kraken Apr 30, 2019, 9:55 AM

#

darling == feature? @flat gazelle

flat gazelle Apr 30, 2019, 10:11 AM

#

Anything you've spent time on

#

When optimizations hit hard, it's all fair game.

honest cipher Apr 30, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

gets 'nam' flashbacks of shipping on PSVR

west surge May 1, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

Potentially first world problem here but I’m curious about my position in the 3D world and if I’m either very lucky or being fucked over. If it’s okay to ask about it here but I’m the lead modeller for an arch vis company (that doesn’t say much I know) and I’m also one of two guys who are doing Realtime work for the company, however I am on £24k (not in London) and am just so unsure if I’m paid fairly.

west sonnet May 1, 2019, 10:20 PM

#

No

#

A very hard no

west surge May 1, 2019, 10:30 PM

#

Oh Riley? As I’ve came from arch vis / six background I don’t feel I’m qualified for games industry, but do people think there’s fairer pay out there for Arch Vis related modellers and Realtime?

#

SFX*

west sonnet May 1, 2019, 11:04 PM

#

Also no. Architects don’t want to pay for anything. There’s an over abundance of labor in that field and industry.

west surge May 1, 2019, 11:06 PM

#

So generally you think I’m stuck? I’ve started making an extra £10 a day on 3D assets so that might grow more and work outside of work also but I’d like to work smart, not hard, doing 50 hour weeks and not ending up on good money isn’t really my goal in life haha.

west sonnet May 1, 2019, 11:12 PM

#

There’s an over saturation of artist in the game industry too. Nowhere near like arch viz but still very competitive. Job security is nonexistent and it’s hard to get your foot in the door. But your skill is far more valued if you choose to dedicate to it. Hell, I guarantee the skills you have now is far more valued in the game industry than arch viz.

west surge May 1, 2019, 11:14 PM

#

It’s that whole being 30, having a mortgage and trying for a child thing... kinda scares one off working at a games company and maybe not having a job in 6 months. I live real close to Foundry 42 (cloud imperium) and see them hiring weekly, the drop out rate there must be insane.

digital gate May 1, 2019, 11:16 PM

#

That, or they're growing

west surge May 1, 2019, 11:25 PM

#

True. But I find it hard that Star Citizen or whichever one they’re working on is making that much.

#

It sucks really. If I just gave up and became a “visualiser” then I could get to 30k. It’s hilarious, my bosses and many of my peers can’t model, texture, unwrap. But they make more money because they do the final images. I’m just a bit tired of having to keep learning more about the thing I love to only stay relevant and not actually earn as well as those around me that do the same thing year after year.

rapid mulch May 2, 2019, 5:02 AM

#

You may be able to get a raise if you ask, and clearly layout your reasons. If you don't get one, that just means you move to plan b. What that plan is you'll have to decide for yourself. Save up money to leave and find a better job, double down and prove to your boss your worth more, do a little freelancing online and job hunting on the side and ease your way out. Whatever works for you. Take your time to decide, but definitely decide. Life won't change if you don't change it.

shadow kelp May 2, 2019, 6:49 AM

#

@west surge they are still pulling in frankly insane amounts of money from ship sales/subscriptions each month...so I can believe they are still growing. Definitely a gamble staking your future on them though, they be sailing uncharted waters monetization-wise.

#

24k for a lead role is pathetic though tbh, particularly if you're managing a team

lilac walrus May 2, 2019, 7:31 AM

#

they're unlikely to be still growing

#

their overheards are colossal

#

their last reports showed that they weren't breaking even

#

and that without outside intervention they'd be bust within 12 months

shadow kelp May 2, 2019, 7:35 AM

#

yeah their burn rate must be pretty high....if the ship sale revenue dries up I think they'll be laying people off within months

#

that said, it's probably a pretty interesting project to work on as a programmer, if I wanted to go back to the UK I'd probably consider it....but I have no dependents so I can afford to take risks like that

lilac walrus May 2, 2019, 7:45 AM

#

they sold a stake in the company a while back to keep themselves afloat

#

they've now got a deadline of about 12 months to get the game out of the door

west surge May 2, 2019, 9:02 AM

#

Thanks for the input lads. I'm going for the freelancing and job hunting on the side kind of thing and broadening my skills so I might be able work in other fields that I'm far more passionate about.

I think modelling in the UK and most any "1st world" country is doomed, so many places outsource it and in Arch Vis there's insane websites like 3D Sky that completely devalue your skill.

lilac walrus May 2, 2019, 9:04 AM

#

Well, games will always need 3d art, and I don't think all studios pay badly depending on your level of competency

#

I don't think it's a problematic field to go into

west surge May 2, 2019, 9:07 AM

#

no it's not "bad" just that you have to get over the fact that those above you often can't do half of what you do, so that wage disparity feels very strong... But then we don't live in a Meritocracy so I understand that, it's all about money in the end.

lilac walrus May 2, 2019, 9:10 AM

#

in games I'd expect that most senior 3D staff are extremely well versed in what they're doing

#

they don't get into those positions otherwise

west surge May 2, 2019, 9:12 AM

#

yes that's the issue, in Arch Vis for the longest time modelling furnishings or complex buildings is a waste of time, if you can get assets for $4 then obviously use them, so you get management who are good at lighting and rendering a scene, good at PS but they don't value modellers at all because they've never done it.

#

I mean, there's two other lads working with me, who got to £18K and were told they're not worth any more without doing images, despite the fact they're most likely as good as me in some regards.

lilac walrus May 2, 2019, 9:18 AM

#

sounds more like your employer is a bit shit tbh

#

I did Arch viz over a decade ago, just basic implementation stuff in UE3

#

my starting salary was £28k

west surge May 2, 2019, 9:23 AM

#

was that London way though? I'm in the North West and even though we do ridiculously high end stuff I understand the wages will be different here (for no real good reason)

lilac walrus May 2, 2019, 9:38 AM

#

it was, but in either case it's a stark difference

#

all I did was put existing stuff in a scene and write the occasional simple bit of Unrealscript to do stuff like change materials

west surge May 2, 2019, 9:44 AM

#

shame, you'd think 8 years in some loyalty and ability would have paid off.

#

ah well, just reinforcing my thoughts then, use this place for a while, find a better job and fuck off unless I get a better offer to stay.

lilac walrus May 2, 2019, 9:59 AM

#

loyalty has never paid off in any industry

#

if you want to improve your prospects, you move

west surge May 2, 2019, 10:34 AM

#

how dare I be a decent person. haha

shadow kelp May 2, 2019, 11:14 AM

#

loyalty is for mugs

#

when it comes to work

brisk anchor May 2, 2019, 3:37 PM

#

Weird, one would think loyality pays off both for the worker and the employer.

#

But ofcourse, if you dont excell at what you do, maybe the return you get is to keep the job...

west surge May 2, 2019, 4:21 PM

#

you'd think but it must be hard to give more to the person who's making you more money when you can keep it

#

Money, share it fairly but don't take a piece of my pie.

acoustic zealot May 2, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

Wrong channel to ask that

west surge May 2, 2019, 6:01 PM

#

oh people get pissy about it believe me

#

he's got time to fix a potentially incrediblt hard problem?

#

that's fine then, continue asking questions in the wrong place and get no help

#

and all it took was to apologise, and ask in the correct place, now I'm looking like a level headed person and you're looking like an arse nobody will want to help.

#

just accept it man, I posted in the wong place, got arsy with someone because I thought it was fine then realised my mistake, apologised and moved on, I got respect for being humble.

#

what's the deal in this situation? I don't want to cause extra crap and get in trouble, I'm just trying to help

lilac walrus May 2, 2019, 6:07 PM

#

if you want c++ help, ask in a c++ channel - that's where people who might know the answer to your problem are

#

there are nearly 25,000 people in this Discord

#

they are divided between the channels

#

as is appropriate to their experience

carmine siren May 2, 2019, 6:08 PM

#

Okay guys lets stop with the personal attacks

west surge May 2, 2019, 6:08 PM

#

I wonder how I became the lead modeller for one of the UK's best Arch Vis companies then...

plucky hatch May 2, 2019, 6:08 PM

#

owo popcorn time

carmine siren May 2, 2019, 6:08 PM

#

@plucky hatch Take your question to #cpp

west surge May 2, 2019, 6:08 PM

#

sorry lads, I was just trying to reason as I made the same mistake not two days ago.

lilac walrus May 2, 2019, 6:09 PM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

carmine siren May 2, 2019, 6:10 PM

#

It's over, drop it

plucky hatch May 2, 2019, 6:11 PM

#

oh, so entertainment didnt stop

#

english 100

acoustic zealot May 2, 2019, 6:11 PM

#

We need an age restriction

west surge May 2, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

or a big stick

carmine siren May 2, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

Bye bye

obsidian summit May 2, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

Thanks xD

plucky hatch May 2, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

lmao yeeted out of here

west surge May 2, 2019, 6:13 PM

#

now nobody will see my big post about being undervalued and career related woes 😦

#

haha

kindred mason May 2, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

damn

#

how did I miss the drama

shadow kelp May 2, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

@brisk anchor loyalty doesn't pay the bills. If you're an employee and talking about 'loyalty'....you're probably getting screwed over

#

maybe someone, somewhere has got lucky and being 'loyal' to an employer has paid off in the end...but I've never witnessed it. I've seen a lot of people who were 'loyal' to their employer, end up without an employer.

west surge May 2, 2019, 7:51 PM

#

@shadow kelp aye that's me, I'm soft and foolishly expected loyalty to pay and then 8 years down the line I realise the massive disparity

brisk anchor May 2, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

Actually, my loyalty paid off. But im pretty sure its not the general rule.

west surge May 2, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

how so? tbh I think mine will in that if I stay while we develop the realtime aspect of arch viz then I'll be in a more suitable position but then I also expect to be paid less in that role by comparison

brisk anchor May 2, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Stable job decent pay

#

No risk of being fired at all

west surge May 2, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

well likewise here. I don't think I'll ever be out of work, just upsetting being a modeller in an arch vis company, making things work for multiple visualisers who are paid better

brisk anchor May 2, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

I know the feels. I voiced my opinion about it and took a jump :)

#

Due to reorganizing thrres a new jump coming this year aswell. Approaching 700k nok per year

#

No master or bachelor degree.

west surge May 2, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

haha that's another thing, me and a few lads at work did SFX degrees and then there's multiple people paid far better with no uni degree

#

but as one artist told me "How can you make something creative academic?"

#

good lord, I make about 300K NOK a year, but then again Norway is expensive?

brisk anchor May 2, 2019, 8:19 PM

#

Indeed it is. Avg pay is around 500-550k i think

west surge May 2, 2019, 8:21 PM

#

that's the sad thing. average pay here is 26K, oh to just be a bit lucky

brisk anchor May 2, 2019, 8:29 PM

#

Yepp being a tad lucky gets you a long way. But so does skill, motivation and determination.

cobalt stream May 3, 2019, 3:53 AM

#

hey all, can i get yalls advice on key points about cover letters?

serene maple May 3, 2019, 4:26 AM

#

Hey guys, i'm currently 17 years old from Australia and am very interested in pursuing game dev as a career when I get older. I am currently looking into becoming a programmer, I know very basic c++ but have not yet learnt enough of it to call myself proficient, and yet to delve and use it within unreal. I am here to ask for advice on best places to learn/get recourses, is there anywhere in particular any of you guys learnt c++ and how to use it in unreal? If any of you guys could give me some pointers and tips it would be greatly appreciated.

harsh brook May 3, 2019, 4:48 AM

#

tons of tutorials out there just blow through them until you find an area you enjoy and then plow through on that area, at this stage you need to just make stuff until you know what you want to focus in on

kindred mason May 3, 2019, 4:53 AM

#

Man, to be 17 again

#

Many more resources for budding game devs nowadays. Almost too many.

serene maple May 3, 2019, 4:56 AM

#

where are the best resources nowadays? @kindred mason

kindred mason May 3, 2019, 4:58 AM

#

Google

digital gate May 3, 2019, 5:02 AM

#

No clue about the best, and I did eventually turn to google-fu, but I dipped my toes in with thenewboston. You're probably best off picking a small set of topics to see which source seems to cover it best for you - as we all learn differently.

Of course, you can grab some programming books and read those if you like; or you can jump in and google when you get stuck.

#

Also the docs and ue4 source and stuff like shootergame

harsh brook May 3, 2019, 5:19 AM

#

googlefu is something you will need to hone for any position, but youtube is pretty great theres also quite a few online learning sites that are like $20 a month and have longer deeper tutorials which are pretty cheap compared to Uni

kindred mason May 3, 2019, 5:21 AM

#

Aye, depends on your field

#

Udemy, Pluralsight

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(one's pay per course, the other sub)

#

Good for varying fields

#

But yeah, if you can find a nice super detailed, long step by step course for whatever on YT, that's cool, free is good

#

Word of warning about books though...

#

95% of books are outdated as soon as they are published

plucky hatch May 3, 2019, 6:29 AM

#

odd question but for anyone working in the field, does it even matter what software you use or does it just matter on what you can do with what you use?

#

like will a company let you use what you're good at or do they make you use industry standards like maya / 3ds for unreal?

shadow kelp May 3, 2019, 6:39 AM

#

@west surge I think you need to ask yourself, if this company has any intention of paying you fairly, why haven't they done it already? Secondly, when do you decide to stop putting up with it? 1 year? 2 years? 10 years?

#

also, this may be stating the obvious, but when it comes to payrises, if you don't ask, you don't get. That's normally how pay disparities come about

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also, in my experience, when you do ask, 90% of the time, you do get

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as long as you approach the negotiation right, i.e. don't just say "please can I have more money"

flat gazelle May 3, 2019, 7:27 AM

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@plucky hatch it varies. Some companies are software agnostic while others have built their pipeline around one.

#

But more than that, it always comes down to what you can do with it. Tools can always be learned.

west surge May 3, 2019, 9:01 AM

#

@plucky hatch I can say that the company I work for has many people come from Uni having used Maya or C4D and they have to learn Max, but for the Maya users at least it's not a big jump.

#

@shadow kelp I am a year or two along in the "deciding where I'll be" thing, I asked about 9 months ago maybe but I was sadly level headed about it when asking and never stated I wanted better pay and numerous others also asked, that's when we found that the company does not value modellers at all, so a few of us are dejected, hence why I'm branching out, finding freelance and other opportunities.

brisk anchor May 3, 2019, 9:16 AM

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Best of luck atleast!

#

Hopefully your next opportunity will value you better

west surge May 3, 2019, 9:29 AM

#

I think I just need to quit and be a blueberry farmer haha

plucky hatch May 3, 2019, 9:59 AM

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@west surge
Do modelling for secondlife, you can sell 3d models with textures, same with artstation and other sites, can pay well if enough content and for a long time.

west surge May 3, 2019, 10:02 AM

#

@plucky hatch Amen to that, I tried 3D Sky but their system is a bit shit to sellers, one week after putting things on Artstation and I had Adobe contact me about their Adobe Stock program and I make maybe £800 a year on that so I should focus on there, I'm just thinking long term and want to make sure I end up in a good position, kinda of tired of doing lots of the work below and all that.

#

should try the marketplace also, I have plenty of assets Arch Viz would like.

plucky hatch May 3, 2019, 10:03 AM

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$800 a year on adobe, that's pretty crap, was making 400 usd a month off SL

west surge May 3, 2019, 10:06 AM

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£800 gbp is around 1000 usd, and I have like 30 odd items on there? I'm sure I can do better selling elsewhere also

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it's when I'm sat there all of Sunday preparing 3 or 4 good items and thinking (I could have got paid £180 if I worked today)

#

I should just appeal to the furry market on SL obviously haha

plucky hatch May 3, 2019, 10:10 AM

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well my friend who also earns somewhere near the same was earning more with scifi stuff, RP stations and stuff

west surge May 3, 2019, 10:18 AM

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on SL?

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obviously I need to be more Enterprising, I got into 3D printing dollhouse stuff but the returns aren't that great

plucky hatch May 3, 2019, 10:30 AM

#

I think the reason why it sells better on SL is because people can actually use the items instantly than using it for a bigger project, being such means that unlike with projects where people buy only what they need, SL is a place where people buy things that look cool even if it's in a rainbow vomit house with anime posters all over. You're still going to fit in that FF7 motorcycle on the front lawn.

west surge May 3, 2019, 10:41 AM

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haha that's a great way to put it.

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yeah I'll have a look around.

plucky hatch May 3, 2019, 10:43 AM

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but yah that's why i suggest it so much, less competition when you make a crap tonne of hover bikes that look nice and use a simple drop in script system that comes freely in tutorial packages XD

west surge May 3, 2019, 10:49 AM

#

that and I have a lot of assets ready to move over.

#

always fun though when somebody pays $2,40 for a spoon.

quick tree May 4, 2019, 2:14 PM

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Yo ! Can a music composer actually make a way to live from unreal engine? :-?

lilac walrus May 4, 2019, 3:19 PM

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probably

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but why would a music composer restrict themselves to an engine?

quick tree May 4, 2019, 7:52 PM

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well, I don't think that is something that the composer can restrict.. (to me especially) Is more about the feeling.. @lilac walrus

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like... let's just say that the music composer wants to compose only for unreal engine

violet canyon May 5, 2019, 2:11 AM

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So beside the base funding ideas like grants, Kiackstarter ECT how else would you guys suggest i go about funding a game project to help pay for devs???

copper salmon May 5, 2019, 2:13 AM

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@quick tree that's so odd, why would it matter which engine or which platform the music ends up in? Assuming we're strictly talking about a Composer that makes. Music

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You're like shooting yourself in the foot with that choice

quick tree May 5, 2019, 6:49 AM

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ok, let's take this at another position bcs this is going too... btw. I was referring strictly to games development

karmic kayak May 5, 2019, 7:05 AM

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I still don't get why the engine of choice would matter that much for a composer?🤔 Even if it's striclty about game dev...

quick tree May 5, 2019, 7:07 AM

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don't know..

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just asking

woven jay May 5, 2019, 1:27 PM

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Hello

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anyone from india or third world in general?

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i need some advice

west surge May 5, 2019, 7:15 PM

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@quick tree I wonder if you can make music and sell it on the marketplace?

tidal moth May 6, 2019, 3:10 PM

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I mean you can do that, but unless it's some sort of asset flip most people will contend with having custom music for their game, since it's such an integral part of the atmosphere

lilac walrus May 7, 2019, 9:47 AM

#

https://twitter.com/j4n0/status/1125380024733925377

Alejandro Ramirez (@j4n0)

I was curious to see if a nonsense LinkedIn account would also receive job offers. It does! :D

Retweets

2162

Likes

5544

#

#linkedin

spice dagger May 7, 2019, 11:45 AM

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I havent used LinkedIn itself to find a job in ages. I use it more as an online resume i can quickly link.

lucid dragon May 7, 2019, 12:20 PM

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How it feels looking for a job as a junior...

📎 30cq88.jpg

shadow kelp May 7, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

How it feels hiring for a senior role 😉

📎 download.jpg

delicate apex May 7, 2019, 1:52 PM

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and you're probably skipping a handful of capable people because they don't meet some criteria

shadow kelp May 7, 2019, 1:55 PM

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I wish I could be that picky...

delicate apex May 7, 2019, 1:59 PM

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I mean, there are hundreds of recorded cases of non-qualified pilots and doctors doing their job just fine and nobody noticed

shadow kelp May 7, 2019, 2:14 PM

#

this is why the hiring process is more than just looking at qualifications

lilac walrus May 7, 2019, 2:15 PM

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mercifully people don't tend to die when people without qualifications work in games

delicate apex May 7, 2019, 2:23 PM

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well, it helps if recruiter has some idea what to look for

#

instead of looking for 1 guy to do 5's job and act all pikachu_face.jpg when they want 3x the salary

flat gazelle May 7, 2019, 2:30 PM

#

I doubt there are many recruiters in this channel. We are devs, looking at applications from other devs. At least when we hire for my team, It's my call and not the recruiters.

#

I have my own login to the recruitment platform so I see the application at the same time as the recruiters. Their job is to handle the admin. Like sending the rejection letters or setting up interviews.

#

Talking about internal recruiters here.

west surge May 7, 2019, 4:45 PM

#

I got contacted by one company who said I'd be fine as a technical artist... I've never done the job but looking it up and talking with the guy I met 90% of the criteria, I think I'd just make a shitty Technical Artist.

#

And then there's bullshit job titles, we had a modeller join the company for all of 4 weeks, he wasn't great but his LinkedIn had his previous roles as "lead artist" and so forth, so I thought, why be humble? and now I'm a lead artist despite the fact many people here would trounce me, job title wise, I am but skill wise I don't feel secure in saying so

lilac walrus May 7, 2019, 8:55 PM

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titles are largely irrelevant tbh, it's all about what you do

#

the title only really served as an indicator of what that is

odd mulch May 9, 2019, 10:51 AM

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I got to pick my title at my job

lilac walrus May 9, 2019, 10:58 AM

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they wouldn't let me be "Lord of Changes"

steel creek May 9, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

the title only really served as an indicator of what that is
go you one better: The title(s) only really serve as an indicator of what THEY think it is. 20 years, dozens of places, dozens of places with same "titles" and the job responsibilities are not the same. The only consistant shops, which are only consistant in terms of words defining those job roles, are the union shops. But, again, even those using the consistant definitions in their setup dont nessicarily translate to the same thing on the day-to-day work floor.

wary hearth May 10, 2019, 12:35 PM

#

Anyone want to collaborate on a game?

honest sundial May 10, 2019, 12:58 PM

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Everybody be like.. yeey.. me me me me me

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Srsly tho.. how do people end up partnering up to work on a game?

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especially.. like.. randomly. random people from the internets

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does it really ever happen?

lilac walrus May 10, 2019, 1:05 PM

#

it can happen, but it rarely results in a game unfortunately

#

I think it's more common that something like a jam team comes together and decides to push their jam game into something bigger

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but even those projects tend to fare badly

shut tree May 10, 2019, 1:13 PM

#

i dunno blizzard merged pretty early

#

it happens on big scale and can happen on small scale

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does not allway s make things better

#

there is also mod teams

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ppl like good mods is a more easy start than from scratch

#

get traction faster

lilac walrus May 10, 2019, 1:19 PM

#

eh, what does Blizzard have to do with anything?

tidal moth May 10, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

you gotta vibe with people and then figure out if your goals overlap... and if they do and the stars align, you may be able to start a team together. then if you're even luckier you can somehow scrap together a prototype that somehow has the appeal and get some investment going

#

I would not recommend looking for people online though

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at least not for projects that don't have funding

indigo hill May 12, 2019, 12:36 PM

#

Morning everyone. Doing the jobhunting hustle atm for animation gigs :]

#

fresh from an animation test at a studio that got my foot in the door for future contract work even tho it was passed over

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havent landed a gig yet but i feel encouraged

#

def buzz me if you can think of any leads i should check out - would be looking for mid-tier 2d animation gigs and entry level 3d

tidal moth May 12, 2019, 1:03 PM

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where are you based

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and can I see a portfolio or reel

granite brook May 12, 2019, 1:03 PM

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A proper post in #looking-for-work would be better

tidal moth May 12, 2019, 1:03 PM

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sure

plucky hatch May 12, 2019, 1:10 PM

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If you want a senior role just put on some fake wrinkles

indigo hill May 12, 2019, 2:20 PM

#

Oh yeah I already posted in #looking-for-work

#

i found several leads and have cover letters composed and ready - taking a breather before some proofreading checks and then sending a bunch more in

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but yeah I will be on the lookout for more leads - just gonna apply to anything and everything I qualify for

indigo hill May 13, 2019, 11:22 AM

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Ooh, there's a meetup tomorrow for unreal developers in san diego

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i should go to that

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if i have time that is - got other stuff on my plate tomorrow

kindred mason May 13, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

Hm, I miss San Diego...

#

Good times

eager crater May 14, 2019, 12:27 PM

#

That sounds a little bit paradoxical, because if what's relevant is what you do, but titles are an indicator of what you do, that means if you do great and have tons of responsabilities, your title will be very high and important, therefore it's relevant? Or am I missing something?

Because I agree with the first statement, titles are mostly vague and here to give a salary (add Junior to some guy's title and you can give him less money)

lilac walrus May 14, 2019, 12:29 PM

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seniority usually indicates degrees of responsibility

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which tends to correlate to experience of course

echo fox May 14, 2019, 5:13 PM

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heh, bombed my first interview I think

#

How were yours? Anything fun or any tips to share for future reference?

ashen lynx May 14, 2019, 5:34 PM

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Pretty terrible tbh. I've yet to see someone whos first interview went flawlessly. The tip would be do not try to anticipate everything, that you might be asked, in advance, and most importantly, try not to present yourself better than you actually are. It may and will backfire.

echo fox May 14, 2019, 5:37 PM

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I see

harsh brook May 14, 2019, 6:17 PM

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My first interview I wore a suit, I was told after the interview to never wear a suit

flat gazelle May 14, 2019, 6:50 PM

#

I was flown to a different country for my first interview. I was a wreck

#

I did pretty well though. I was offered the job a few hours later when the CEO picked me up for the most uncomfortable dinner of my life.

#

Good food though!

lilac walrus May 14, 2019, 6:55 PM

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my first interview went badly because my interviewers were arseholes

flat gazelle May 14, 2019, 6:55 PM

#

😦

lilac walrus May 14, 2019, 6:55 PM

#

I asked specifically if there was going to be some kind of test when I got there, because it was a 9 hour journey

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they had me solve programming problems on a whiteboard in front of a panel of people

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I turned them down

flat gazelle May 14, 2019, 6:56 PM

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That sucks. Mine was good. I'm still in contact with my first manager as we became good friends.

harsh brook May 14, 2019, 7:46 PM

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all my interviews have been over phone then skype weird starting a job next week and never even been to the office

kindred mason May 14, 2019, 8:24 PM

#

I suppose my first real gamedev interview was a Hackathon in Seattle

#

Either I knew what I was doing in those two days and they would hire me, or not

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(they did)

odd mulch May 15, 2019, 6:52 AM

#

I'd never accept a job without being on premises first 😄

flat gazelle May 15, 2019, 7:28 AM

#

Why? I did for this one. I knew most of the people I was going to work with and had good phone interviews. What the office looks like isn't super relevant to me.

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 7:39 AM

#

You can get a lot out of seeing the working environment

#

gives you a good idea of working atmosphere and conditions

#

which in turn often tells you a lot about a studio

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 7:49 AM

#

Guys what was your first salary (Yearly) as game developer?
I don't want the exact amount, but even if it's not precise, give me an idea, since i'm passing from Web development to Game development and of course my salary will go down

flat gazelle May 15, 2019, 8:38 AM

#

@lilac walrus Yep, for most places I'd agree. But in my particular one it would be an empty office with two desks as nobody else had started yet 😛 I only shared my experience because he said "Never".

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:38 AM

#

heh

flat gazelle May 15, 2019, 8:39 AM

#

@solid kelp It will vary from country, city and year. I don't think you'd benefit much from knowing what I made in a small town in the UK ten years ago.

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:44 AM

#

^

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 8:44 AM

#

You're right

#

But i live in Malta and the avarage salary for this kind of job it's not different between UK for example

#

But yeah, in a small country it would be probably totally different

#

The thing is that, is it worth to start the career as a game developer and earn less money when i have 2 years experience as web developer? i mean if i just search for web developer job my salary will be higher

#

And that's what stopping me

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:46 AM

#

I'm not sure we can really answer that question, since it's going to be largely personal

#

it did take me a number of years though, to break out from the 'average' game dev salary

flat gazelle May 15, 2019, 8:46 AM

#

Have you checked Glassdoor?

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 8:47 AM

#

For what? i checked glassdor for jobs and other things

flat gazelle May 15, 2019, 8:48 AM

#

Glassdoor has salaries aswell

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 8:48 AM

#

I didn't saw that honestly, thanks

#

@lilac walrus Can i ask you "how many" years did it take?

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:49 AM

#

several

#

expect to be on the lower end of the salary spectrum for a while, unless you're particularly good at what you doi

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 8:50 AM

#

The offer that the company proposed to me it's not bad, i mean as Entry programmer it's a medium salary and it's "OK" but i'm afraid to get stuck in this "salary" for more than 2 years, hope you understand what i mean

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:51 AM

#

it's unlikely your salary will change much, if at all, over a two year period in the same job

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 8:52 AM

#

But yeah your "several" makes sense to me, even because game developing it's not so popular like web

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:52 AM

#

it's more due to demand tbh

#

there are a boatload of applicants for every entry level position

#

that drives salaries way down

#

towards the senior and specialist end of the spectrum, there's a deficit of qualified people so salaries sharply increase

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 8:54 AM

#

And one of the thing that let me be curious it's that i'll work on UE4 and Unity, both of course in different projects

#

So probably that can be something "nice" for my CV

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:54 AM

#

it never hurts

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 8:55 AM

#

i just have one Last question, do you know what is the country with more Game development studios? Google is basically giving me a different country every article i join

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:56 AM

#

generally speaking it's the UK and Sweden

#

France also has a few, but unlike the entire rest of the industry, they tend to be French speaking working environments

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 8:58 AM

#

I was dreaming about USA 😛 Ahahahah

#

But yeah cold places are ok for me 😂

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:58 AM

#

USA is a big place; but a few cities have concentrations of studios

#

well, most of the North American studios are in cold places too :p

#

e.g Seattle, Vancouver etc

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 8:59 AM

#

Yeah i was joking even because i would need a VISA and that seems impossible

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 8:59 AM

#

it's not impossible, but you'd need to able to demonstrate capability

#

which without a relevant degree or experience is kinda unlikely

#

plus any studio out there would be taking a huge risk, since the cost of relocating you is high

#

if you're an EU citizen, you're better off remaining in the EU

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 9:02 AM

#

The bad thing is that there is no certification for this job!

#

For example Linux has RedHat qualifications

lilac walrus May 15, 2019, 9:02 AM

#

certification would be meaningless in games anyway

#

congrats, you know how to use an outdated version of tool X - shame it looks nothing like that any more and we use proprietary tools anyway

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 9:03 AM

#

AHAHAHAHAHAH That's funny but true!

tacit heath May 15, 2019, 9:16 AM

#

glassdoor salaries are often times not accurate - speaking from experience

#

most of the time they are a goo chunk higher o glassdoor, compared to the actual salary

#

also, if you are out for fat salaries, stay away from games. unless you are a special expert in a very niche but required field, you will always work more, have less benefits and less job security than your colleagues in the normal industry, while earning far less money. you only do it because it is a thing you HAVE to do and there is no other option for your self-fulfillment

dusk raptor May 15, 2019, 9:27 AM

#

niche is a two edged sword : more money, but less job offers

tacit heath May 15, 2019, 9:27 AM

#

if you are asking yourself what the first mentioned group are, those are currently UX experts, especially for cash shop designs (might sound easy, but there is a reason this field has only a few highly wanted experts)
being a technical artist that is so good that you can be used as a full worth programmer and a full worth artist

flat gazelle May 15, 2019, 9:28 AM

#

@dusk raptor I disagree.

dusk raptor May 15, 2019, 9:28 AM

#

and advantage though is that niche => less people to apply for the job offers

flat gazelle May 15, 2019, 9:28 AM

#

I'm super niched, meaning I'm one of very few that do what I do and get too many offers.

#

I never have to apply for jobs.

dusk raptor May 15, 2019, 9:28 AM

#

hence my second sentence :p

tacit heath May 15, 2019, 9:28 AM

#

being a ps3 system expert was one of those jobs.

flat gazelle May 15, 2019, 9:28 AM

#

Finding the Right niche isimportant though

dusk raptor May 15, 2019, 9:29 AM

#

you get to know a lot of people in that niche field too, which is great for networking

#

I've seen it for VR, Archviz, even my hobby with oldschool cars

tacit heath May 15, 2019, 9:31 AM

#

I'd imagine it is hard to become a niche expert, since it means that you either find fun in a field that most people don't want to do (which most of the time has a reason) or it is just something that is very tough to learn, meaning there are often little resources

dusk raptor May 15, 2019, 9:31 AM

#

I'd say its a bit of both

#

a while ago I wanted (and would still love to) work in motion simulators

#

these things are hardcore, and not really well known

#

but damn are motion sims awesome

tacit heath May 15, 2019, 9:34 AM

#

yeah I can imagine.

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 10:05 AM

#

@tacit heath So basically

#

If i understood what you mean, salaries will always be low and the work will always be HUGE right?

tacit heath May 15, 2019, 10:21 AM

#

there might be exceptions, but generally speaking, yes

#

if games aren't your one and only passion, chances are that you will be happier in the non-gaming industry

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 10:22 AM

#

The problem is that, they are.

tacit heath May 15, 2019, 10:22 AM

#

well, then decision has been made I guess 😉

solid kelp May 15, 2019, 10:23 AM

#

Yeah i just signed when i was talking with @lilac walrus so it is his responsability now 😛

#

Joking. I would love to learn more, that's why i'm even accepting

dense plank May 15, 2019, 7:37 PM

#

re: countries with a lot of game studios. Canada is another one.

Also, has a lot of the advantages of the US (higher salaries being one), without a lot of the downsides (having to deal with the healthcare system, etc)

kindred mason May 15, 2019, 7:38 PM

#

eh

#

Maybe in AAA

#

But from some decent sized Indie Studios, the pay is lower in Canada than USA.

dense plank May 15, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

The pay is definitely lower in Canada than in the US, but a looooooot higher than the UK. I'm from Scotland originally, and I doubled my wage when I moved to Canada

kindred mason May 15, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

Ah, maybe

flat gazelle May 15, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

Don't forget the cold. 'm used to swedish winters but goddamn that wind in Montreal...

kindred mason May 15, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

But USA to Canada comparison, I know for a fact I would get a pay-cut in many studios over there

#

And for the most part, that makes sense. COLA is less in Canada than USA

#

Cost of Living Allowance..well there's no COLA... but Cost of Living...

dense plank May 15, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

Yeah for sure. Though there's probably some extent to which other factors make it even out (e.g. healthcare. Personally if I moved to the US I'd view it as a gamble... if I moved to the right studio I might be able to save more, but I'd also be gambling that I wouldn't end up being hit with healthcare expenses at some point)

kindred mason May 15, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

eh

#

If you come to the USA, you don't have to worry that much tbh

#

A lot of people and the internet make it out to be much more than it is

#

Especially if you get a job and receive benefits

#

(as in FTE)

#

As an Independent Contractor, I wouldn't move anywhere personally 😃

#

Well, maybe Canada

dense plank May 15, 2019, 7:45 PM

#

I got bored of Scotland haha. It's a lovely place, but I wanted to take advantage of the opportunities that this industry provides you to move around the world.

I hit 30 and the company I was working for collapsed like a pack of cards, so I figured it was a good time to give it a try

kindred mason May 15, 2019, 7:45 PM

#

Also, I wouldn't move regardless unless the company pays for relocation

#

They want me to take a risk on a move? When the company could go under in 3-6 months (random number) and I've uplifted my whole life to move there. They are going to have to take a little chance as well.

#

I don't know. I've only lived in the USA and Japan. With some small stints in Kuwait, Afghanistan and Thailand.

dense plank May 15, 2019, 7:46 PM

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Haha yeah I dodged a bullet with that one. One of the offers I was considering before I accepted the role at Ubi Toronto was Sony Online Entertainment in Seattle. The studio shuttered three months after I would have started there, so thankfully I dodged that bullet

kindred mason May 15, 2019, 7:47 PM

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USA is pretty cool because you can find the type of place you want to live in pretty easily

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Want sun almost year round? Tan, nice beaches? Go west coast

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Want beautiful weather, rain every once in awhile, beaches, maybe say to live through a hurricane or two? Florida

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Want snow? Northeast

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Want to be near big tech? Cali

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or Austin TX

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Want to live on a farm?

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Midwest

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Want earthquakes? Cali

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Want Tornadoes, Midwest

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Anyway, maybe going a bit offtopic, but yeah, lots of choices around these parts 😉

vernal kraken May 15, 2019, 7:49 PM

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nah i find it interesting

kindred mason May 15, 2019, 7:50 PM

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😉

dense plank May 15, 2019, 7:50 PM

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Yeah if I were starting my career from the beginning again, I'd have made the move to North America much quicker

kindred mason May 15, 2019, 7:50 PM

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I've actually lived a good part of my life almost equally in Cali, NY/MA, Florida and SC

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Only real area of the USA I haven't lived in (but have visited) is the MidWest

dense heath May 15, 2019, 7:51 PM

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the rest is not real?

kindred mason May 15, 2019, 7:51 PM

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exactly

vernal kraken May 15, 2019, 7:52 PM

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current political climate not withstanding, the US would seem interesting to me, were it not for the bad rep of health care, fire at will, etc

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living in europe is like easy mode

dense plank May 15, 2019, 7:53 PM

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Yeah agreed. Though, my experience in Canada has been good on that front