yup, and if it is, the floor + blueprint will intersect exactly
#ue4-general
rich sparrow
safe rose
Floor is a grid and "Blueprint is exact same size", = same BP?
rich sparrow
safe rose
k
rich sparrow
I can work around it easily enough
safe rose
So bottom pic is where you started, then you moved it up into the niche, and it messes up?
I guess I am still confused
rich sparrow
safe rose
The question was about two meshes overlapping each other, being the exact same.
rich sparrow
yes, ok - so this is the floor - composed of an instanced static mesh (one for each tile) and each is 100x100x20
rich sparrow
yeah
safe rose
Ok
rich sparrow
when I "draw a blueprint", the floor part of the blueprint is the same 'tile' mesh, just using a 'blue' material
so when the floor tile transform === "blueprint" tile, they perfectly intersect.
safe rose
ok
Are you saying you are using a floor for the "drawn" BP, the same as the "floor/tile" bp, so it's 20unit higher because it's on top of it?
rich sparrow
correct
rich sparrow
yeah so I'd need to hide the tiles currently being occupied by the drawn "blueprint"
safe rose
So, you'd get the right height everytime
?
Now I am confused
Is the draw feature inside the same BP?
rich sparrow
nope
safe rose
as the FloorTile
then what's the problem with just not spawning floor tiles on Drawn BP?
rich sparrow
it's dynamic, changes as you draw with mouse
safe rose
So?
If they are literally the same exact floor
What's it matter if you make a new one?
Or in this case, don't make one?
rich sparrow
the floor is a 1000x1000 grid, using instanced meshes
rich sparrow
safe rose
Or did you hardcode each 1000x1000 with 100x100 grids?
rich sparrow
that's a small example, but the playable area is (for example) 1000x100 tiles, which are each 1mx1m
rich sparrow
it's an instance of a mesh, yes
rich sparrow
yup
safe rose
ok
So, again
Why does it matter if you are redoing the same logic for the floors
To do it again in the "draw bp"
The floor grid are exaclty the same
I guess, logically to me. It doesn't make any sense why would you do this, when it's obviously an issue.
And the easiest solution is to just get rid of floors in the second BP
rich sparrow
but I want the floor blue
safe rose
Gotcha
rich sparrow
as per the first screenshot
once the room is built, it's easy - I remove the instances on the floor which are now being occupied
safe rose
Other than making it blue, is there anything else?
rich sparrow
this allows me to replace the floor tiles with another separate mesh
safe rose
You want the fancy grid mat?
Then you will need to do the logic, to delete those instances
From the first BP
rich sparrow
yeah. I have that logic already once a room is built
safe rose
do you delete the floor grid?
rich sparrow
yes
safe rose
so what's the issue again?
rich sparrow
adding/inserting instances each tick on that size grid is expensive
safe rose
Why would you be doing this on tick?
rich sparrow
because the user is resizing the rooms
safe rose
Right, but I don't understand why it has to be on tick
But okay, doesn't matter
So, once you create the room
rich sparrow
ok not on tick, it's actually when the room dimensions change, but it's still expensive
safe rose
The floor grids underneath are destroyed right?
rich sparrow
correct
safe rose
And you just want to move the room 20 units down?
rich sparrow
when a room is built, it's another BP altogether
rich sparrow
but no difference
rich sparrow
the fact it's a different BP isn't an issue, Imean
safe rose
I actually don't understand your issue now
If you want to move the room down
then do it once it's created
20 units down
rich sparrow
I do, that's not the problem
rich sparrow
yup that's exactly what I do
2 secs
see onthis image, there are 3 existing rooms
rich sparrow
they have been 'moved down' 20 units - effectively, sunken into the floor
safe rose
Aye
rich sparrow
this shows the new floor texture as the grid's mesh is gone inthose spaces
all happy
safe rose
(btw, this info would have been very helpful in the beginning)
Ok, so what's the issue?
You want it to sink, even when on top of regular floors?
rich sparrow
well, I did type a paragraph saying exactly this. I'll explain in more detail
safe rose
That are not deleted
rich sparrow
the 'blue' room
is 20 units higher
this is because, if I nudge it 20 units down (so the walls are flush with the existing rooms) I will lose that blue floor
see where the mouse cursor is, the blue wall is 20 units higher than the 'built' wall
safe rose
😃
Okay
So
What if you moved the floor 20 units up?
Until it's locked in
and then moved it down 20 units
rich sparrow
that's what I do in that screenshot
rich sparrow
well yes, the whole thing is higher. But I wanted to keep the consistency of the floor heights + walls equal
safe rose
¯_(ツ)_/¯
rich sparrow
raising floor 20 units is a workaround (perfectly acceptable)
safe rose
Aye, you can bug some folks over in #graphics and perhaps they know of a way to do it via materials or post processing
But otherwise, it's just going to be a workaround
I mean
rich sparrow
yeah, I'm happy with either workaround
rich sparrow
not quite that simple, as the 'instances' array is... bloody big
rich sparrow
would be fine - the 'new room' would be inthat spot
safe rose
Well
If you snapped the rooms
while moving them
instead of allowing freeform movement
you could do a lot
rich sparrow
the rooms are snapped to the grid locations
btw is there a good tool for quickly recording a snippet that's a good fit for discord?
mint raptor
Can anyone tell me what Rotation.RotateVector does exactly?
regal mulch
It uses the rotator and rotates the vector with it
grave bough
anyone have any idea why when I play in standalone my character keeps spawining at 0,0,0 instead of player start? Driving me nuts
modest heron
how can i reference a specific text box within a widget
grim ore
make that text box into a variable and then it will be a variable in the event graph. Top right in the widget designer has the checkbox for that when you have the text box selectged
magic scarab
what is the best way to save data for players on a server so they can come back to it?
safe rose
@magic scarab Depends
Is the server, a dedicated game server?
Is this an external backend server?
magic scarab
hm something like gta5?
magic scarab
well you connect to any random server, and get your userdata such as money level weapons
safe rose
Are you talking about like character levels/items/etc saved?
k
They are using a backend server
That saves all that info
When the player logs in, they query that data that is associated with that player
Probably on a character by character basis
You can use Gamesparks and Playfab
those are both integrated into UE4
well
as plugins
magic scarab
whats better in your opinion
magic scarab
i cant even find the playfab plugin
thorny phoenix
Hi, I am having a problem running the first person blueprint on UE4. It crashes any time I try to create a new one, but the weird thing is any other one works fine. I'm on 4.14.3 pls help?
faint juniper
Is there anyway to avoid UV mapping when creating a game in unreal?
ionic sedge
😛
You could use the world aligned nodes in the material.
But characters will look bad without any UV mapping. And yeah, no baked lighting either.
wild kestrel
UV map is a map that maps textures in to mesh, you can't do it if you thinking about textured 3D, even in shaders alone you lose ability to position pixels on the mesh. So only way for UV free is to use screen pixels over pixels on the mesh
or going 2D
ionic sedge
wild kestrel
you could potentialy map using vertecies colors thru
oblique sorrel
So, an engine launcher needs to compile shaders too..?
wild kestrel
it probably compiles for engine assets
swift sigil
Is there something I can do to get faster compile times? I really doubt that there's any problem with my CPU.
Just now it took 114 secs to compile a new C++ script that I just made.
This doesn't make any sense.
Are these bad specs?
gentle ivy
kind of
I wouldn't say dev VR on them
but it's also missing a video card from that list
oh but as compiling goes, yeah your CPU sucks for compiling
also it says you are using page filing
which probably means your ram is full
which probably means super long times for memory which could be the slow down you are seeing
swift sigil
How do I check if my ram is full or not?
swift sigil
Smfh. Is this bad too? @gentle ivy
Wow, I'm so choked. I just reset my computer to factory setting about a month ago too. I don't see how my shit's this bad.
plush yew
hi guys
can any one give me some links to learn UE4 ? im lost
i dont know what to start with
i have 0 xperience with game dev
glossy flame
@swift sigil a factory reset isn't going to do you a ton of good—unfortunately those are just some really weak specs for the times, especially for a dev setup
Just doing some basic searching, it seems to be getting beat out by a dual core Pentium from 2014 (G3258) =x
tulip bobcat
I did a factory reset due to something not letting my Steam launch at all
Tried lots of stuff to fix it, but nothing would, so I had no other option
vivid girder
Any reason i should avoid setting the CharacterMesh collision preset to block Visibility?
Seems like it'd be an obvious choice, but someone with Epic clearly disagrees?
grim ore
Probably not an issue but probably not needed as the character capsule around it is normally the colliding object and more performant
@plush yew the official YouTube channel for unreal engine has some starter videos. The docs page also has some learn ue4 pages.
vivid girder
@grim ore Thanks for the response! My capsulecomponent is using the Pawn preset which defaults to ignoring Visibility as well
swift sigil
I literally just factory reset again, and I'm re-installing Unreal.
When I used Unity, things were never this slow, but unfortunately it seems just to be my computer and the fact that Unreal has more components.
Seems like I'm going to have to buy new processor or whatever.
granite sky
hi guys :) anyone available to ask what I hope is a pretty basic question?
actually, on second thought, this is pretty multiplayer focussed, I'll ask there instead
muted stone
who all here sells on the UE marketplace?
swift sigil
Not me.
ornate juniper
Could anyone help me some animation questions?
merry gazelle
I'm wondering, does anyone have suggestions for creating ghosts? Ideally more realistic(non-cartoon)
Maybe particles will work but im not sure a walking smoke cloud would like that scary lol
feral echo
just a 3d model with shader..
floral heart
Realistic ghosts are easy. They take literally zero effort.
tall pendant
for realistic ghosts you dont even need an mesh or material. 
keen birch
^
Haha
In all seriousness, though, "walking smoke clouds" are not that scary, io
imo
But then, I don't see why you'd be scared of ghosts anyway
That being said, define "realistic" ghost, as they're basically per definition non-realistic
So it just depends on your interpretation
floral heart
Giant walking Stay Puft men?
thorny kayak
well, there's a cool smoke effect in s2e2 of stranger things
But yeah, is realistic ghost like Bruce Willis?
(in sixth sense)
floral heart
Stalker didn't really have ghosts, but it had some apparition like things. (They turned out to be a lot less scary once I realized you could kill them.)
thorny kayak
Well, supernatural things are scary if you believe that they are real... which in video games... yeah
floral heart
I'd imagine ghosts are best when you're afraid of what they might do, rather than what they actually do.
thorny kayak
Scary games are more about psychological horror anyway
floral heart
Unless you plan to spawn a creeper on top of the player.
floral heart
There's the fear of it happening a second time.
thorny kayak
If you consider losing your progress, i.e. you've built your character/base/something for 40 hours and are about to lose it... then yeah, psychological
that's true
but still, that's like stress... what people get in war
you can get creeper ptsd
I guess you have to define whether you want a game that induces fear or horror
fear is just imagining something you don't want to happen
I think horror is a much deeper thing
more specific
floral heart
Fear: A fake bluescreen.
Horror: A real bluescreen.
Terror: A real bluescreen and your hard drive is set to format on restart.
thorny kayak
It's like a Stephen King novel
tall pendant
or a new Windows release
thorny kayak
There you go. I think horror is really about things you don't understand. And new Windows releases definitely fall into that category.
And to that point, games stop being scary when you know how they work. If video games = magic to you, then I think a smoke ghost can be perceived as scary. Or at least more scary.
Maybe a good boss could be a monster that throws fake bluescreens at you. Or if you take a hit, your PC reboots.
floral heart
If the boss locks you into an unskippable cutscene, you'd probably prefer to reboot your PC.
thorny kayak
But that's just annoying.
Now here's real horror for ya. When you start the game, it informs you that if you try to close it, it formats your hard drives. Then every time you fail a challenge it does something random to your files, like sends a bunch of nudes to your coworkers or something.
Of course, none of it would be real, but if the player thinks it is, that's enough.
next badger
I was roaming through Cel shaders and found this guy... http://darknesz.artstation.com/projects/VaD8X
And, my thread on the forums:
https://forums.unrealengine.com/development-discussion/rendering/85762-screenspace-halftone-filter
tall pendant
@next badger there's also an striking resemblances of stuff made by Jeremy Baldwin on quite a bunch of what he shows. At least a reference to the Original creator on his end would have been nice.
grim cargo
im creating a horror game fps.. i dont know what should i search in youtube 😦 can somebody can help me.. im tryin to find some tutorial about the player can hide in locker
if the player press F they player start hiding under the table or inside the locker
pallid compass
I think it more be being overlap events & moving the player in custom mode and putting restrictions in place
I dont think u will find such a specific thing
next badger
i doubt too...but the logic says to switch to animation of getting in to the locker and abrupt the player controls
frosty bloom
In the world of code the only one limiting you is your imagination
the engine itself is only a tool, and a customizable one at that.
tall pendant
@lost ember You can check out this: https://github.com/FreetimeStudio/PortalPlugin
pallid compass
where the heck is the directional light in the advanced lighting room D:<
lost ember
Thanks @tall pendant
pallid compass
Anyone fixed the issue is shadow artifacts on large objects?
sudden agate
Do you guys recommend Speedtree?
kindred viper
naaah Herointree is way better. Methtree is pretty good though.
tall pendant
dont forget Oxytree.
sudden agate
Already tried these. Weren't that good imo
hot ledge
How would I call mesh from other actor blueprint
oblique stream
usually you can do a getallactorsofclass
or a cast to
then make a node of whatever youd like to do to the thing you just referenced
like toggle visibility
then in the visibility node, you can drag off to the left I believe to get the mesh component
oblique stream
so you want to hide the players character?
hot ledge
It’s a gun
oblique stream
so you want to hide the gun?
tall pendant
@sage valveildex#6923 srsly. it depends on your project / need whether or not Speedtree makes sense. at least in my exp.
hot ledge
Yeah
I want it to only be seen by the player but not everyone else
It says target must have a connection
pallid compass
You can just say
MR6TP
It needs to know whitch one
which one
Think of it like this
"what if there is more than 1?"
hot ledge
That mesh is in another actor blueprint but idk how to connect it
pallid compass
ALright so
In that cast
You need to get a Reference to the actor blueprint
and cast to it
safe rose
@hot ledge Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM_HYqQdToE
And you will know everything
And thensome
pallid compass
then the cast will give u a ref to the mesh u need
hot ledge
Thanks am gonna watch the vid
pallid compass
not quite, but watch the live training#
buoyant echo
@pallid compass the number of nodes?
Plus version locking is essential if you're working on a certain version and then it starts auto updating, and you have to immediately fix your product to match its version
tall pendant
Plus direct support
buoyant echo
That as well
buoyant echo
For that stuff, I think it's best to contact them
pallid compass
no one seams to know lmao
buoyant echo
It might be their way of saying licensed usage of the application.
I've no idea what the company is really about.
buoyant echo
If it's anything similar to Heroku, nodes are instances that you're allowed to use.
buoyant echo
Again, just message them to figure it out. Nobody here works for Simplygon sooo ¯_(ツ)_/¯
tall pendant
the free version app. has some feature cut: https://forums.unrealengine.com/filedata/fetch?id=1127225&d=1493818526
main pewter
regarding the nodes - I think they mean for a company for example having 5 devs with 5 pcs having 5 nodes so they need to pay. if your working "personally" on one machine, go for the free version. I don't think it ships with you gmae, its just a editor plugin for LOD. but yes, message them to be sure 😉
pallid compass
im pretty sure the LOD generation for ue4 is done by simplygon now?
main pewter
didn't check out 4.18 but until that you did'nt need simplygon just for lod. maybe HLOD, yes, but not regular LOD in static mesh editor
pallid compass
im 90% sure that is done by Simplygon inside ue4
yeah it is
it ships with ue4
tall pendant
ue4 has its own system, but simplygon is integrated into ue4
you can use it if you own a license
buoyant echo
For someone who doesn't really care, you sure talk a lot about it 😬
buoyant echo
I was making a joke 🎉
pallid compass
gotcha
plush yew
oh nice
me im making materials
and also trying to make a house
i finished it just need to apply materials to it
plush yew
hahaha i would love to but im just trying to learn how to make houses so that i can put them in my seen ;D
i think i need blender for that
but not too sure
Naeus are you watching a video tutorial
livid timber
im studing the documentation for now
plush yew
oh great
can you send me a link ? i want to learn that too
how to change actors with bleue prints
please
livid timber
yeah gimmea sec
plush yew
ok
plush yew
i will be back
plush yew
ok im back
plush yew
Anyone here gotten a UE dev grant?
south ridge
A handful of people did
south ridge
Ask @brisk path about it. I think he mentioned his project got one like half a year or more after submission
south ridge
Our project didn't get anything, nor they seemed to look at it 😛
plush yew
@south ridge Yeah?
tall pendant
yeah. some guys waited over 6 months w/o epic even downloading their project 😛
south ridge
Well, I stopped monitoring it after like 3-4 months, so maybe they eventually did look at it. The way queue progresses is arbitrary and they seem to be interested in specific kinds of projects at different times
plush yew
@tall pendant I mean was it just a bad project?
Soulless?
One of those shit-ware games?
On steam
south ridge
No, good projects have been left without response and some bad projects got response
plush yew
@south ridge I didn't even know there's a queue you could look at
south ridge
It's a super subjective selection progress
You can't, but sometimes the guys post on forums and stuff
At the time we did submit, they claimed to have had a 2 month backlog of projects to look through
tall pendant
@plush yew Those guys didn't show their projects IIRC.
brisk path
hello
plush yew
I would love to be able to hire someone who can actually do stuff I can't.
tall pendant
you can probably find something in the forums thread
plush yew
@tall pendant like what
brisk path
I uploaded a really old demo for them but i linked them my itch page
tall pendant
@plush yew how long some people have waited for their grant etc
plush yew
@brisk path My game is only multiplayer
brisk path
and then a few months ago i finally got it. Seems like they are looking for progress too
plush yew
So i didnt have a demo, only like 20+ videos
from the last 7 months lol
starting from nothing
to what we have now
brisk path
When did you submit it
brisk path
You're probably gonna be waiting a while
I submitted mine around a year before i got it
plush yew
@brisk path Can we update it and send more videos? lol
brisk path
I didn't do anything like that
Just kept making progress and getting publicity through social media
dunno if that contributes to it
frank escarp
@brisk path thats why you got it
they grant the money to projects that look cool, so they use the grants as "look all the cool shit people make with ue4"
brisk path
👍
south ridge
They grant money to projects that are a good advertisement opportunity from them, plus randomly select projects on topics that they like
There have been batches of similar-themed projects that were given grants, with a mix of public and unknown projects
south ridge
A high chance lottery
safe rose
As it should be
frank escarp
it is indeed a lottery, but being popular in twitter/forums/etc will add more ballots
frank escarp
sure, i aint mad i didnt get nothing from my games. But it is free cash, so epic can just give it to whoever the hell they want
safe rose
I've never thought about applying for any game projects or anything else.
Probably by the time I get around to it, no more funds will be available anyway 😉
frank escarp
but definitely, its about luck and being popular in media
south ridge
We will apply again when we're closer to launching our game in beta haha
frank escarp
actually if i end up doing what im planing with my next game "cartoon style shooter in vr" it has all the ballots for a incredibly high chance of getting grant
becouse pretty much no one ever tries to do NPR with unreal
safe rose
NPR?
south ridge
(sadly) we choose to do our development with relatively little publicity until a certain milestone
frank escarp
non photorealistic rendering
safe rose
hmm, are you sure?
south ridge
And that milestone got delayed for reasons not dependant on us
frank escarp
how many toon shaded projects do you know with unreal?
safe rose
A lot actually
frank escarp
well, i dont
safe rose
Even one client I worked on
tall pendant
hmm interesting since my project is stylized hehe
safe rose
That has a steam released game
frank escarp
can you link some?
brisk path
@plush yew Project Wingman
frank escarp
would like to see them
safe rose
isn't there a list somewhere of all ue4 released games?
brisk path
No, it just has a free alpha for people to download during development
plush yew
Oh
frank escarp
but that has lots of games, im talking about the toon shaded ones XD
tall pendant
Darksiders 3 and Crackdown 3
brisk path
Putting out a free alpha has been extremely positive for me because it lets people give feedback and show what we can do in the future
maiden swift
Most of the games that receive grants have stylized, non-realistic art.
brisk path
Doubt it lol
If you release the full thing for free and then charge it sure
but i'm only uploading tiny vertical slices
plush yew
mhm
frank escarp
@maiden swift but there is stylized, wich still uses the normal shaders, and then something like toon shading, wich uses custom shaders and other fancy stuff
brisk path
What's your game @plush yew
plush yew
@brisk path Incomplete, but its a multiplayer survival game
We have the basics of rust... Crafting, Resourcce gathering, basic melee pvp, and a simplistic tribe system which needs an overhaul
But yeah
maiden swift
@frank escarp Now you're getting oddly specific. Your original claim was hardly anyone tries non photorealistic rendering. 😛
I'm saying that assumption was incorrect.
frank escarp
doesnt NPR really go with the fully toon or other renderings?
at least that is the context ive allways seen it
stylized still uses realistic materials
maiden swift
Toon shading is certainly not the only style that's not photorealistic.
Toon shading is a very specific style that mimicks the hard lines of cartoon illustration.
It doesn't have a monopoly on non-photorealistic rendering.
There are many non-photorealistic styles out there. 🙂
floral heart
Lots of people have tried to do toon shaded NPR, judging by the incessant requests for toon shading.
frank escarp
normally i only see NPR said on the context of toon shading or something like that
pallid compass
NPR?
frank escarp
becouse it doesnt follow realistic light at all
maiden swift
Overwatch is a great NPR example that doesn't use toon shading.
pallid compass
i mean i guess u can look at breath of the wild too
maiden swift
Yeah I'd say so.
frank escarp
breath of the wild is toon shading on characters
frank escarp
thats pretty much the distintion i normally see when talking about NPR
NPR is when you DONT use normal light shaders
i allways see it talked more about the tech than on the style
tall pendant
But yeah the term non-photorealistic rendering (NPR) actually means Toon or Cel shading in games.
maiden swift
Your art can obey physics and still look non-photorealistic.
@tall pendant Cel shading is one particular style of NPR.
maiden swift
Right about what?
pallid compass
Look at that game
frank escarp
the NPR being more about the tech than the art style
pallid compass
the detective one, where you are a ghost and have to solve something
That is not PBR but the lighting still follows real world laws
plush yew
I always ask myself
What if some random company... or even if myself, made overwatch before blizzard. Same exact heroes, and exact style? Would it be popular? It really bring the question: "Is a game profitable because its good? Or because of a name of the publisher? Or something else?"
pallid compass
wait maybe it is pbr..
tall pendant
PBR isn't about lighting IIRC
tall pendant
well.. to a certain degree
plush yew
I think
Games are simply marketing
and thats it
Like you can make the argument for gameplay... or art, or some other thing
but in reality...
marketing is what makes a game profits
maiden swift
Actually, lighting is a big part of PBR.
plush yew
I've seen some amazing games which make absolutely no money
frank escarp
no way in hell
100% sure of it
look at Paladins
Paladins ended up as "f2p overwatch"
but they have dev videos YEARS before overwatch appeared
and it was already like it is now
plush yew
@frank escarp yeah
frank escarp
overwatch is only really big due to blizzard
plush yew
It's marketing
frank escarp
anything blizzard does that is half good will explode
plush yew
Anything blizzard does
frank escarp
becouse blizzard has blizzard polish
frank escarp
blizzard trademark is the extreme polish they give to the stuff
plush yew
and it would make millijons
tall pendant
Cuphead also makes millions hehe @plush yew
floral heart
Perhaps the finer point in the question is, is that Blizzard polish a real thing or something people imagine Blizzard does?
plush yew
@tall pendant CupHead isn't my style of game lol
frank escarp
blizzard polish is a real thing
tall pendant
tho its a ableist game xD
frank escarp
just look at the UI
plush yew
Okay
frank escarp
and the "character" and care blizzard gives to stuff
plush yew
@frank escarp wait a second
If I had the amount of money blizzard had to dump into their products... I couhld do the same thing
You could too
frank escarp
well.... doubt it
floral heart
Depends on the type of person you are.
frank escarp
you need to know who to hire and how to lead and how to move that
blizzard team are veterans
plush yew
@frank escarp Yeah
maiden swift
Blizzard's talent for polish is not an imagineed phenomena.
frank escarp
getting such a team of veterans that have been doing games together for years... not easy
plush yew
@frank escarp lets say i gave u 50 million dollars tomorrow
pallid compass
Having money and experaince and skill is two different things
frank escarp
thats one of the things nintendo has
tall pendant
Blizzard has the Top notch outsourcing studios working on their chars and weapons
pallid compass
experiance*
tall pendant
those guys are really good
frank escarp
look at ANYTHING nintendo does first party. They fucking nail it
plush yew
u dont think u could make tons of moeny using that... perhaps 10-20 million and only using maybe 10 million?
frank escarp
lately, look at zelda and mario
zelda is their first open world game like that and it becomes one of the best open world games in all times
mario oddysey is the best 3d mario they have done
pallid compass
Look at no mans sky
frank escarp
at least so far
pallid compass
Mass effect andromda
plush yew
OK
frank escarp
for the mayority of the time, while you can still move it
plush yew
even with 1 million dollars u could make a good game
frank escarp
and yet, it is allways pointed well
tall pendant
infact its the same guys who are making the chars etc for Fortnite 😛
plush yew
u know... you counld pay an artist to work full time anywhere from 55k to 110k+ per artist
frank escarp
mario odysey camera should be inspected seriously, becouse im pretty sure its the best thing ive seen
plush yew
like im just gonna put that out there
pallid compass
I really disagree that money = good game
plush yew
@pallid compass games are only money based
except indie games
indie games are based on sweat equity
the amount of sweat the devs put into it
frank escarp
money != succesful game
pallid compass
IF you dont have the skills & team supporting power
floral heart
If you think game making is just about throwing money, time and talent at it, you're going to put out some impressive flops.
pallid compass
then ur gonna dun goof
floral heart
E.g. Battleborn. 😄
pallid compass
Money helps, but money does not = more money
frank escarp
infinite devs
and infinite resources
and yet they had FF15 in dev hell for ages
and FF14 launched a fucking disaster
pallid compass
THIS ^^^^
frank escarp
and FF13
plush yew
its not hard to not be dumb
pallid compass
Its harder than you think
tall pendant
Phil Fish "made" his game tho
frank escarp
and kingdom hearts 3 in dev hell forever
tall pendant
and he's def. retarded
frank escarp
and FF15 still after 7 years dev time (of dev hell) it launched and they had to basically randomly cobble together what they could ship
and rush it a bit
pallid compass
I think its alot harder these days to make good games than it was 10 years ago
plush yew
I mean
pallid compass
man i hated ff15 and i was a die hard ff fan
plush yew
who here actually thinks PUBG is a good game?
frank escarp
me
frank escarp
its not well made
tall pendant
personally i think its way easier nowadays
pallid compass
I think its good for its style, but lacks alot of polish
frank escarp
PUBG has no polish at all
its cobbled together randomly with duct tape
but the design of it is clear
pallid compass
from market place assets actually lmao#
floral heart
It's milking a concept that isn't being milked by someone bigger.
frank escarp
the actual high level design is clearly very well thought
tall pendant
~ten years ago 99% of indies wouldn't even have a chance to use Unreal Engine
it was pricey
frank escarp
mate, Playerunknowns (lead designer) is the guy that basically invented the genre
like DayZ devs invented the open world survival genre
tall pendant
you mean he stole the idea from mods
frank escarp
a huge chunk of battlegrounds initial playerbase was people from his ArmA mod
tall pendant
but he didnt invented the gameplay
plush yew
Honestly...
the whole genre of H1z1/PUBG games
is missing one thing
which i might actually do
with my friend lol
floral heart
Was DayZ trying to copy/iterate on something else?
frank escarp
polish
pallid compass
Polish
plush yew
No I men
pallid compass
crap u beat me to it
frank escarp
wich btw fortnite does improve a LOT
pallid compass
lmao
pallid compass
Whats it lacking then?
tall pendant
they were mods like set on an island with an magical zone...in some fanatsy game in 2004 IIRC
gentle ivy
Sure initial playerbase of pubg was the following but the reason it got big isn't because it started with a following
tall pendant
did he made that mod? i doubt it
floral heart
I thought DayZ planned to have a ton of zombies, but crapped out on it and turned out players preferred shooting each other anyway.
frank escarp
@gentle ivy it was how streamable/youtuable it was
gentle ivy
I don't think that's exactly it either
frank escarp
battlegrounds bankrolled a good amount of popular FPS streamers to play it
and it became a huge success
gentle ivy
there isn't 1 key thing
frank escarp
becouse streamers really did have material with it
gentle ivy
pubg is a really good game on its own
its shooting is amazing
there is a reason tons of CSGO vets play it
frank escarp
it is pretty good if clunky as hell
tall pendant
yeah like PewDiePie ohh wait... xD
frank escarp
but what made the game "known", was to pay streamers to play it
it then turned out streamers and their audience really liked it
gentle ivy
clunky is just the term people use when they give up before getting used to the timings
safe rose
First, PlayerUnknown did not create the genre
pallid compass
fgs i cant read this and model at same time rip
gentle ivy
lol if that's true then you just need a streamable game to make it
which isn't by any stretch true
see punch club
frank escarp
punch club streamable?
gentle ivy
That said they apparently used a few ex squad developers (before my time) and @snow crown is convinced Squad strongly influenced Pubg
frank escarp
i do think playerunknown shooting is good. With clunky i mostly mean as a general term.
incredibly mis-sized textures, not very optimized, bugs around
gentle ivy
I mean its not even "released"
plush yew
Lol
frank escarp
this games are made to never be released
gentle ivy
much much different than ark already actually
frank escarp
the playerbase is ok with the clunkyness and bugs
gentle ivy
PUBG has actually changed and drastically already
frank escarp
devs probably prefer to add features more than fix stuff/optimize
plush yew
@frank escarp ya
frank escarp
to be fair 2/3 of the hours developing DWVR was optimization/porting stuff
and i am not exagerating
floral heart
That's the theory anyway. Worry about polish when you run out of features.
gentle ivy
so why brother WHILE YOU ARE IN EARLY ACCESS
frank escarp
probably fix stuff from time to time, but focus on features
gentle ivy
thats the key
pallid compass
imo polish can outrun freatures
frank escarp
becouse they are using the early access blue stripe as a shield
gentle ivy
outside of EA
frank escarp
early access means absolutely nothing
its just a meaningless banner used as an excuse
gentle ivy
Ark isn't going to get any more "completed" than what it currently is
gentle ivy
Lots of games make millions
Squad made millions
Hell Heavy Gear was like 5 million
didn't make any money
millions of dollars seems like a lot then you realize base min paying people is 50k a year
tall pendant
Those aren't your typical indie game tho
frank escarp
depends on country
tall pendant
most indies make a lot less
gentle ivy
for sure depends on the country
I know brazil is like 300 usd a month
eh "typical indie game"
frank escarp
hell i looked at jobs in spain and it was 15k a year for a medium tier programmer (not junior)
gentle ivy
is actually fairly big
frank escarp
(euros)
tall pendant
numbers say ~3k avg. units declining on steam
frank escarp
@safe rose why do you think im not working for them
safe rose
$75k is the absolute minimum I would take
pallid compass
15k a year wtf
gentle ivy
If you sold 3k units only your game is probably a failure.
pallid compass
thats pennies
frank escarp
DWVR might not make me rich, but its actually a net positive + FUCKLOADS of experience
safe rose
And even then, that's still low for what I could get.
gentle ivy
sure
frank escarp
definitely more worth it than working for a local company
gentle ivy
thats the other thing @frank escarp people measure game success vastly differently
frank escarp
you just said 3k units is a failure
gentle ivy
what's successful for one title might be a failure for another.
safe rose
As I've gotten more in offers. However, they all require relocation to various places where I've never lived before. And they are strangers...sooo...yeah...definitely just want to chill for a bit and see what I do.
gentle ivy
alright my bad
frank escarp
(still european PS4 release left)
gentle ivy
I don't mean to deminish your success at all
frank escarp
@gentle ivy but thats not deminishing or anything
frank escarp
3k units of my game is a huge success becouse ive spent 5k total on it
safe rose
And you just use that to learn and get better for the next release
floral heart
Measuring in units without knowing the production cost is quite meaningless unless you're in PR.
tall pendant
success is actually very subjective. some only meassure it in net profit
safe rose
Production Costs are pretty much arbitrary
tall pendant
but thats pretty shortsighted imho
frank escarp
im not including my time becouse i just bother with the experience of doing it
safe rose
In most Indie Dev life
gentle ivy
Sure I mean I landed a 7.5k publishing deal and was able to successful release the game and I think that's currently 10k units
gentle ivy
The Away Team
gentle ivy
poorly
frank escarp
well, far better than me for sure
safe rose
Man, I just need to chill out of contracts and focus on my own games...
gentle ivy
I am on twitter with @underflowstudio
but thats about it
and I have sites and etc setup around it
that said I do have a famous publisher
frank escarp
and 10k? how in the hell
gentle ivy
Time?
sales?
tweeting.
the fact that if you click hammerwatch then the publisher it shows The Away Team?
I dunno
frank escarp
thats mightly impressive for such a pixel art game
gentle ivy
https://steamspy.com/app/426290 10k +- 3k
pallid compass
nice man
frank escarp
uhm, yes
safe rose
??????
gentle ivy
eh I mean that's not wrong
safe rose
Are you serious?
frank escarp
becouse there is an overload
safe rose
I agree
gentle ivy
Heat signature didn't sell as well as gunpoint
frank escarp
"oh, yet ANOTHER indie pixel art game"
floral heart
It's "overloaded", but it's also popular, and approachable.
gentle ivy
I mean art style certainly ties into sales a lot
gentle ivy
cup head would not be as successful if it was pixel art.
safe rose
There's definitely a huge market in there
frank escarp
but his doesnt really have good pixel art
frank escarp
it has nice pixel art, but not "impressive" pixel art
safe rose
calm down with the burns please
frank escarp
(not personal @gentle ivy , my game is shit style too)
gentle ivy
I know 😃
it's not like I am pretending its amazing pixel art
its not like omni
or whatever
frank escarp
specially when i come from a games conference where the guy next to me is some guys who did some kind of metroidvania/whatever pixel art game
wich absolutely SPECTACULAR pixel art
like god tier
pallid compass
throws out burn heals at everyone
gentle ivy
100% agreed art sells games and if my art was a bit better I might get a bit more sales. That said the art was provided by the publisher, the hammerwatch guys.
frank escarp
the thing actually passed a kickstarter
safe rose
When you go on KS
pallid compass
to back up the saying "good art sells games"
safe rose
without any marketing budgets
floral heart
The art doesn't look that bad to me. But the screenshots are very menu heavy.
frank escarp
that game has pixel art so good it got frontpaged on polygon, kotaku, and i think RPS
safe rose
Unless you are going to truly undersell your game on KS, just so you can get some hype/tag for "Successful Kickstarter"
frank escarp
the backers will download the game
safe rose
Because one of us has done it here
gentle ivy
games are inheritly spatial so it's going to make sense that the visuals sell the game a lot.
frank escarp
and steam algorithm tracks hours played and downloads
so they would give you a huge boost in the charts
becouse its a spike
100% at least you get into popular new releases even on a small-ish kickstarter
gentle ivy
@floral heart yeah it's hard to market a text-based game
frank escarp
just from the people unlocking the game and starting to play it
safe rose
HMmm
I don't know
Text games are pretty nice
I think someone could totally make a MUD
and it would sell well
gentle ivy
Someone did
frank escarp
you clearly did something right on that game with the marketing or sales or similar @gentle ivy
safe rose
frank escarp
neither do i
safe rose
not bad
gentle ivy
so sadly or awesomely steam has more games on it this year then the last 3 put together
gentle ivy
so you can find literally any game you want + porn
safe rose
Not bad, and I bet it wasn't as hard as trying to make a 2d/3d regular game
Especially at $15
gentle ivy
One thing I've really noticed with text based games is content is actually more time consuming
gentle ivy
than 2d/3d
gentle ivy
and the things you type are read in like 5 seconds
safe rose
Aye also, you have to read
gentle ivy
but took like 30 years to write
gentle ivy
yup that too
safe rose
Which I obviously suck at
gentle ivy
which the away team auto scrolls
which if you auto scroll the slowest then allow for saying clicking to advance it works really good
safe rose
Aye
gentle ivy
UE4 is the worst engine for 2D games. Fight me paper2D fans
oh? there isn't any paper2D fans. Yeah, thats what I thought.
No for real there are some 2D UE4 games on steam that are fairly good like talewind
but text based games in UE4 seem horrible. Specially if you want to do things that I did like randomly color one word in an entire line of text and render it all at once
tall pendant
There is also Project Octopath Traveler
frank escarp
not 2d
surreal viper
I wouldn't use unreal for 2D games in general, sounds a bit overkill
it's just not for that
frank escarp
ive been analyzing that game all i can
damn nintendo is smart
mario is mostly lit by ambient light + fresnel
gentle ivy
http://store.steampowered.com/app/200190/Sideway_New_York/ have you seen this?
frank escarp
light is static, with huge ambient, i dont really see a lot of radiance or things like that
frank escarp
that is damn cool
frank escarp
its the team of bravely default
safe rose
So duh
frank escarp
and bravely default got really good reception
and that style there is 100% approchable by an indie
it uses the same pixel art as normal 2d, and the 3d models are super basic
the map is also essentially isometric
but few indies can pixel art like this
gentle ivy
anyone else hate perforce?
safe rose
No perforce for life, but I think PlasticSCM is sexy
gentle ivy
ugh perforce is the worst
gentle ivy
I wish git lfs locking worked decently
brave gate
why you hate it? 😛
gentle ivy
what?
brave gate
for me SVN is the worst thing ever 😄
gentle ivy
how does LFS bloat?
frank escarp
becouse it stores one of every file
safe rose
If you don't want GitLFS, but hate Perforce. then PlasticSCM is the answer
gentle ivy
svn is pretty bad but I'd prefer it over cvs