ue4-general

[cloud cobalt]

That's not the point

[primal siren]

GST/VAT is not part of your revenue

[vale osprey]

well, I hope you are not doing accounting yourself then

[primal siren]

it's a government leveed charge

[cloud cobalt]

We heard it the four first times

It doesn't matter

[primal siren]

and yet it's not sinking in

[vale osprey]

revenue is not the same as gross revenue or sales - they are different terms

[south ridge]

In other words, if Valve leaves you with +$400 net ballance in the end of quarter, I think it's ridiculous to pay royalties on those $400 net ($571 gross) at the end of that quarter

[cloud cobalt]

^

Anyway, asking Epic directly

[vale osprey]

@south ridge its normal, like you supplier won't be waiting for your to sell your products

it's a part of running company - making sure you are payed on time and pay your bills as late as possible

[south ridge]

Yes, but I have no real accounts of those extra +$400 of ballance. Just a statement from Valve Software

But not a transaction record or a contract

[cloud cobalt]

Also @primal siren , in Europe companies do get the VAT money. They refund it to states later.

[south ridge]

In that hypothetical situation

[cloud cobalt]

Not sure about the states

[primal siren]

on the Unreal Engine website:

In order to apply the $3,000 USD quarterly exemption from gross revenue, you would convert the Euro revenue to USD using the current exchange rate. While prices may be inclusive of VAT, most distribution platforms will provide you with revenue numbers separating out any sales taxes or VAT, in order to calculate your revenue share. You would use the gross revenue numbers less any VAT or sales tax included.

VAT is NOT included

i know the god damn laws.

epic isn't going ot be breaking them.

[south ridge]

@primal siren are you based in Europe?

[primal siren]

i am in Australia

[south ridge]

Ah

[primal siren]

we have GST instead of VAT

it is the same thing with a different name

[frank escarp]

steam has a column saying "gross sales"

[south ridge]

It's not related to conversation, just had experience with insanity that happens when US and European laws meet

[frank escarp]

pretty sure thats the one to use

after that one, it does the 70/30 split

[cloud cobalt]

Anyway, just sent Epic an email with a hypothetic example ($10 game sold 10 times, one refund, 20% VAT - how much should I report)

We'll see

[primal siren]

you go by the actual revenue, not GST/VAT

the question is answered on the unrealengine website

[vale osprey]

yes "gross sales" is synonym to gross revenue but more widely used. dunno why Epic uses this terminology

[cloud cobalt]

@primal siren Are you selling your game in Steam and paying royalties to Epic right now ?

[south ridge]

I'll also send them an email to clarify, what counts as accounts and records that can be audited and whether I should consider real received revenue or steam numbers which may be higher than what was received at end of quarter

[primal siren]

do you want me to paste their answer again?

you have a real issue with being wrong don't you?

it benefits you

and yet you still fight it

smh

[cloud cobalt]

I just want to not base my company's finances on speculation from people on the Internet

Crazy right ?

[primal siren]

In order to apply the $3,000 USD quarterly exemption from gross revenue, you would convert the Euro revenue to USD using the current exchange rate. While prices may be inclusive of VAT, most distribution platforms will provide you with revenue numbers separating out any sales taxes or VAT, in order to calculate your revenue share. You would use the gross revenue numbers less any VAT or sales tax included.

[vale osprey]

yolo

[primal siren]

directly from their website

you can wait for the email and get the same response!

[vale osprey]

that's not what is written in contract, so...

[cloud cobalt]

^

Also it doesn't talk about refunds

[primal siren]

that is what is written//

[cloud cobalt]

Which WAS my question

[primal siren]

jesus christ

[cursive dirge]

lol

[vale osprey]

why are you being so obtuse?

[primal siren]

me? LOL

oh my god

i've given you Epic's actual answer

good god

mate

i needed a laugh

thanks

[cloud cobalt]

@primal siren Are you currently paying royalties to Epic on revenue from Steam ?

[vale osprey]

contract terms and FAQ are completely different things, later doesn't have a legal value

[primal siren]

LOL

[cloud cobalt]

Simple yes/no question

[primal siren]

sure sure

mate i've already answred that

there is no helping/talking to you about it

[cursive dirge]

also, if you get any epics staff reply from anyone that's NOT in their legal team, you can't trust it

[primal siren]

have fun

[cursive dirge]

they in general know anything

[south ridge]

Don't trust anyone. Your eyes are mirrors, the world is a lie

[cursive dirge]

their guess is as good as yours

[cloud cobalt]

Let's wait for Epic's response. That's the ony thing i'm going to trust at this point

(Or anyone who already got it from them)

[cursive dirge]

but for payment scheduling related issues (like if you have to pay epic before you get the money from valve) I'm sure you can contact Epic and they can be reasonable with it

[vale osprey]

@south ridge Steam aside, you need to have your own sales roster from which you would pay. As you can sell through more than one platform. But in case if your account is blocked, it's kind of your own problem.

[south ridge]

That's the thing

[cursive dirge]

like with any case where you struggle to make the payment in time really

[south ridge]

I'm pretty sure and I hope that you pay based on your own records

Not based on steam records and stuff

[vale osprey]

correct

[cursive dirge]

but you'd need to have the docs in order if they audit you

[south ridge]

Your own records that are verifiable, since all transactions have their ID's and uniquely identify your company and valve software and stuff

[cursive dirge]

and they will ask Valve records then

[south ridge]

So your records that can be verifiable. Valve software in fact not involved, since the transactions can be verified with the banks

Sender bank, receiver bank

[cursive dirge]

I don't think that's good enough

what Valve pays you doesn't really tell everything

[south ridge]

Valve records shouldn't matter. Only what Valve Software actually pays you should matter. It's kinda dumb if I have to pay something based on records of another company that has no relevance

[primal siren]

if it's based on revenue that includes money taken by apple/valve then your own statements wouldn't be what they'd go by..

[cursive dirge]

but that's not what the contract is about

[south ridge]

THe simple net number does not, but net number plus contract does

[cursive dirge]

if it were from what Valve paid you, they wouldn't talk about gross revenues

[south ridge]

I'm saying that the basis should be the actual net number. Yes, you pay 5% of the gross that's corresponding to that number

[cursive dirge]

only Valves records can tell what the end customer paid for the product

and that's what epic wants to know

[south ridge]

Not 5% of the net number. 5% of the gross based on the net you received and not just some magical records somewhere in Valve

[vale osprey]

@south ridge when Valve pays you they state how much was gross sales and how much was VAT if they payed it and etc.

[primal siren]

minus gst/vat

[south ridge]

@vale osprey that information should be consistent with what really happened based on bank transactions (and there's no reason why it wouldn't be) and agreement with valve software

If for some reason they retained some positive balance, it would be dumb if I had to pay on money that Valve earned off me, but that are not (yet) my revenue

[cloud cobalt]

@primal siren 'if it's based on revenue that includes money taken by apple/valve then your own statements wouldn't be what they'd go by..'
-> it is. That's in the EULA.

[vale osprey]

well, that would be your issue with Valve, not with Epic

3rd parties don't have responsibility for what you do with 2nd party

[primal siren]

i didn't say it wasn't @cloud cobalt

[cloud cobalt]

So at least we agree on that 😃

[primal siren]

i was pointing out that blackfox's going by his own payments wouldn't work

[cloud cobalt]

I'm pretty sure the Steam reports are what counts

Just not sure about refunds (and now VAT)

[south ridge]

There is one possible answer here

[cloud cobalt]

Right now Steam gives me stats on gross, including refunds and VAT

[south ridge]

If you assume Valve has no issues and is always dilligent, then your quarterly revenue will be 1:1 equivalent to your net received from Valve (minus taxes, minus valve's share) and the positive ballance is simply next quarters revenue

In that case, no need to worry about your own records being different from steam

[primal siren]

example: price of game is 10$ VAT is 21% - customer pays 12.10 - valve pays the 2.10 in VAT, withholds 3$ and sends you 7$ - you pay epic based on the cost of the game being 10$ - not the cost+VAT of 12.10

you quaterly revenue will not be the same as what valve has taken

as they take 30%

[vale osprey]

then it's not gross sales or gross revenue

[south ridge]

Since Steam reported gross for the quarter would absolutely correspond to your received bank transaction. And in that case, the answer for refunds is "steam will report your refunds as a negative ballance towards next quarter"

[vale osprey]

it's net sales

[primal siren]

no

[vale osprey]

ffs

[primal siren]

net sales would take into account expenses

[south ridge]

Now that I think of it, that's probably what happens with refunds

[primal siren]

gross revenue is based on revenue, it does not include GST/VAT, as every accountant will tell you and even Epic will in the email response

[south ridge]

Whatever refunds have been done after you've paid your quarterly, they are probably subtracted from gross revenue for next quarter (without changing previous quarters numbers - which epic's license explicitly states are being used to pay)

[primal siren]

GST/VAT is not revenue

[cloud cobalt]

Sure

But Epic doesn't state in the EULA that VAT is excluded

So I consider that a gray thing

Same as refunds

[vale osprey]

"net sales would take into account expenses" - that would be income, net sales don't exclude expenses or COGS

[primal siren]

it doesn't need to, because the definition of gross revenue does not include VAT/GST

type into google "does gross revenue include VAT"

jesus christ

find one actual accountant response saying it does

[cursive dirge]

first result says it does

[primal siren]

i'll give you a dolla

link

[cursive dirge]

also, you don't trust google results

[cloud cobalt]

Hopefully you're right @primal siren , but I will wait for a confirmation from Epic nonetheless

[primal siren]

give me this link mate

@0lenta

link mate

[cursive dirge]

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Gross_vs_Net

In the UK, the VAT (a "value added tax" that is a sales tax) is only included in a "gross" amount; the "net" amount is calculated before tax.

[primal siren]

that is income not revenue

[cursive dirge]

doesn't matter what those sites say though

[south ridge]

@cloud cobalt so btw, I think what happens with refunds is that you pay by the gross revenue reported by steam for your quarter

And the refunds will go into next quarters ballance

[frank escarp]

@south ridge nope

[south ridge]

But that's what EULA says

[frank escarp]

the refunds are discounted directly

thats why they take 15 days

becouse when you receive money on the 30th of august

its actually the sales from july

[south ridge]

Ah

[frank escarp]

refunds are solved by then

[south ridge]

Well, if Valve does that, then it's even better

[frank escarp]

thats why steam only sends you the money 30 days AFTER the month of sales

[south ridge]

No roll-over

[frank escarp]

no roll over

becouse 15 days refund, but 30 days delay

[primal siren]

if people are getting a refund that isn't revenue, other wise you could get 100% refunded sales and make 0

you wouldn't owe epic money on 0

[frank escarp]

just think about it, it would be pretty fucking insane to have to pay money to epic even if both you and steam got 0

[primal siren]

ikr

waits for captain contrary to some how say it does

[south ridge]

In that case your steam-reported gross for that quarter would be zero, your bank transaction would be zero (well, non-existent) and so you have no records beyond your steam stats saying you sold 1000 copies and refunded 1000 copies

[cloud cobalt]

It would, but you do pay on Valve's cut too, so i'm not sure it's not crazy 😃

[frank escarp]

steam will show "all sales" as 1000 copies. Then "gross money" as 0, and then 0 tax and 0 valve cut

[south ridge]

Yeah

[frank escarp]

@cloud cobalt you dont pay valve cut on refunded units

[primal siren]

and you will owe 5% of nothing

[south ridge]

In that case, my earlier question is answered fully

[frank escarp]

the flow is "all sales - refunds - tax - valve 30%"

[primal siren]

wait, so you're saying you dont pay epic for what valve takes?

[frank escarp]

no, you do

[south ridge]

The number reported by steam for the quarter will always correspond to the bank transactions received and if your bank locks your account, contact Epic games about it

[frank escarp]

they have specifically said that their 5% is on the money before valve cut

[primal siren]

yeah that's what i thought

but they do not take money from the VAT/GST charge that valve inserts on certain country purchases, correct?

[frank escarp]

i havent reached 3k per quarter so havent done the stuff. But im preparing becouse the ps4 release WILl put me over the 3k quarterly

[primal siren]

well congrats on that :p

[frank escarp]

lets check this

[south ridge]

@primal siren Presumably the extra VAT charge should not show up on your gross revenue and not show up on your net bank transaction as a result, as those two numbers have to be fully consistent

[frank escarp]

this was from march

[cursive dirge]

isn't that under NDA? :p

[frank escarp]

why would it be under NDA? its my data

[wary wave]

regarding VAT, VAT has to be applied at the point of sale

[cursive dirge]

because it's valves data too

[frank escarp]

anyway, you can see "Gross Units Sold"

[south ridge]

You should remove that image 😛

It's in fact forbidden to share that information

[primal siren]

so you do not pay 5% on the GST/VAT

[wary wave]

so VAT is a part of the listed price for items in those locations

[primal siren]

as that now deleted screenshot showed lol

[wary wave]

VAT has already been paid when you receive your funds from Epic

because it is paid by the consumer

[south ridge]

There's a specific point about not revealing your store peformance data and blah blah

[wary wave]

not the seller

[primal siren]

exactly it's a government leveed fee

[cursive dirge]

you have to sign the NDA when you get in partnership with Valve, I don't think you can even officially state the steams cut, even everyone knows it

[south ridge]

I don't remember the wording, I just remember a big red X in my mind

[primal siren]

it's not considered your revenue

[frank escarp]

anyway. You can check the "gross steam sales"

and "net steam sales"

before refunds/tax and AFTER refunds/tax

im pretty sure Epic cut goes on the "net steam sales"

same as Steam cut

[primal siren]

how does it feel to be a professional game developer @frank escarp ? :p

[frank escarp]

well, it feels harder every day

becouse steam is destroying itself

[primal siren]

also - since we're active here - does anyone have experience with the Web Browser Widget?

[frank escarp]

i think we are back to 2004 levels of indie development

[primal siren]

are you a fan of the new changes and getting rid of greenlight?

(im guessing not)

[frank escarp]

no, it is a fucking disaster

[south ridge]

Haha. I love it

[cursive dirge]

why? 😄

[south ridge]

Isn't the fee $100 for direct?

[cursive dirge]

it destroys the industry

around that

[frank escarp]

yes, its 100$

wich is still below what scammers make

[south ridge]

So it's basically greenlight except now it's no moderation as opposed to virtually no moderation

[frank escarp]

so scammers continue scamming

exacty

the amount of new games have tripled

or more

after direct

[cursive dirge]

but they give the 100 back

[vale osprey]

yeap, its just cheaper for Valve than to support greenlight on top

[cursive dirge]

in greenlight, that 100 went to charity

it makes more sense now to scam than before

[south ridge]

So it's even worse, they give $100 back and don't even give to charity haha

[cursive dirge]

as risks are lowered

yeah

[south ridge]

Horrific

[primal siren]

sounds like valve is being valve xD

[frank escarp]

greenlight was 100 dollars and then spam all you want

the store is now Google Play

everyone can push stuff

[cursive dirge]

it wasn't ideal either 😄

[frank escarp]

wich means that no one gets views

and will cause a race to the bottom

[south ridge]

I'm glad our game won't risk scammers and copycats as competitors since it's an engineering kinda thing, but it must be horrible for any (good!) but more common games D:

[frank escarp]

wich will end up with mobile style F2P bullshit being almost the only way to getting shit done as an indie

[cursive dirge]

I'm still more worried about shady monetization models than people doing shitty indie games

quality products will still stand out

unless you make a game in genre that is saturated

[south ridge]

Yeah, that

[primal siren]

have you looked into adding revenue via youtube videos playing?

[south ridge]

Quality products will stand out, but a quality platformer gonna have lots of luck and lots of effort

[vale osprey]

well, it might takes years for your product to stand out

[frank escarp]

the same youtube that is demonetizing everything?

@south ridge it wont

marketing > game

look at STRAFE

and no man sky

[south ridge]

Yeah

[frank escarp]

STRAFE sold a good amount, and its not a good game at all

[primal siren]

i don't see how youtube would demonitise game footage if it doesn't break any rules

[frank escarp]

there are PLENTY more games that are FAR better, without even 1 hundreth of the sales

[cursive dirge]

obviously, nobody will find a quality game unless you somehow get the word out

[south ridge]

I have first hand experience with that

[cursive dirge]

steam storefront sure will not do that

[frank escarp]

steam storefront did

a couple years ago

[south ridge]

For our greenlight thing, we did some marketing(tm)

And it worked marvels

I felt dirty afterwards really 😛

[vale osprey]

yeah, in past you got 2mil views and then extra if it sells

[primal siren]

if you were to have your intro video/instructional ingame videos, etc, hosted on youtube and displayed in game via the Web Browser Widget

that would count towards adrevenue.

not a good thing to put on a game that's paid for, but it's there

[frank escarp]

dont you think players will fucking hate that?

and you can be sure it wont be any good

[primal siren]

if it's free, i'm sure they'll get over it

[south ridge]

Ad revenue is based on ads shown, not views

[frank escarp]

youtube money is low

very, very low

[south ridge]

So it's either gonna be horrible in-game ads

Or no ad shows anyway

[frank escarp]

indie games are already doing a race to the bottom

[cursive dirge]

I'd never put additional ads for your own promo material

[frank escarp]

medium tier games are getting incredibly mad

[vale osprey]

whatching ads before watching tutorial? 😄

[primal siren]

well, let's say a MOBA was released for free, only during the loading you had a short monetised video play with an ad

do you think people would really care that much?

to the point where thye wouldn't play?

[frank escarp]

look at Platinum being on the border of bankrupcy

good that nier automata saved them

[cursive dirge]

that's exactly what I'm worried about

[south ridge]

I don't think youtube should demonetize a video like that. Though that's a backwards way of adding ads to the game

[cursive dirge]

that these kinds of monetization models will ruin PC markets too

like they did on mobile

[frank escarp]

they will

[cursive dirge]

yeah, it will

I know it will

[frank escarp]

now that steam is google play? you will see it happening

[south ridge]

You know what's funny

[cursive dirge]

just not happy about it at all

[south ridge]

We have a legitimate way of putting adverts into our game that would fit the game world

[frank escarp]

its valve fault for being icnredibly lazy

[south ridge]

Since the metro stations are plastered with adverts IRL

In fact, it's so dire that we're gonna have to make up lots of fake ads to fill in those spaces

[frank escarp]

valve sees google play making bank

[cursive dirge]

that was tried a long time ago, it's harder to get the people who advertise to buy that space

[south ridge]

Could put real ads on there haha

[frank escarp]

and go " we gonna do that too"

[primal siren]

how does that translate into revenue?

[cursive dirge]

I'm ok with that kind of advertisement

[primal siren]

you would have to go to a company and ask them directly ?

[cursive dirge]

you see that kind of thing getting done for some bigger titles

[primal siren]

it would work for sure on a large title

people would pay you to have their ad

[vale osprey]

@south ridge I dunno if anyone does non-targeted advertisement in digital way. Otherwise you will waste a lot of time on contracts and etc

[frank escarp]

its common in racing games

very common

[primal siren]

but a small indi developer?

[south ridge]

It's not realistic for us since nobody would really probably want an ad in our game (as it requires an ad to have design and stuff, not just text only)

And stuff

But

It's a fun thought

[cursive dirge]

I think the core issue is that you can't guarantee people will see the specific add in the game world vs you stuff it in the front of the face

[south ridge]

Our current actual plan is to simply make hundreds of fake ads to fill those spaces

[primal siren]

a small indi developer i do not think would have a chance of getting paid advertisement straight on release/prior

but you can insert it via youtube with the web browser widget

[wary wave]

eh, Platinum have been doing poorly because they've been doing licensed games that have not gone on to perform well

[south ridge]

I'm off to sleep. Bye bye

[cursive dirge]

@primal siren put youtube add inside your game?

I'm sure it's not allowed by their terms

[south ridge]

This was an educational conversation, shame I've gotta go pass out

[primal siren]

put youtube videos inside your game, own those videos and have them monetised

[cursive dirge]

yeah, that's not going to roll

[primal siren]

how so

[wary wave]

unless you know of a massive secret group of people who bought stuff like Starfox Guard, heh

[cursive dirge]

they don't pay you anything once they find out

[plush yew]

Please welcome @zenith raptor to the community! :beers:

[cursive dirge]

because those ads are supposed to be on their website, not inside game world

[primal siren]

if people are watching the videos and it's not exploited

how would that not work

[wary wave]

because they're paying to bring people to their platform

[cursive dirge]

same way you can't make money by making a software that hides youtube ads in the background

[primal siren]

but it's not hidden

[cursive dirge]

doesn't matter

[south ridge]

I mean

[cursive dirge]

same deal

[south ridge]

Software like that exists

And is used widely

[cursive dirge]

yeah, I'm sure it exists

[primal siren]

have you not seen the way you can add tutorial videos into game now with the web browser widget?

that is what it is for

[cursive dirge]

but it's not allowed use

[south ridge]

I've encountered these weird clickers that hackers install on compromised PC's

To simulate ad clicking

[primal siren]

youtube cares about people watching the ads in videos

if people are using a browser from within ue to watch them, how would they care?

why would they want to demonitise them and lose ad revenue them self?

[vale osprey]

they don't care about random views, you have to provide cookies and etc so add can be targeted

[cursive dirge]

UE4 games != webbrowser

[primal siren]

you haven't looked at the web browser widget have you..

[cursive dirge]

if you make a webbrowser with UE4, then that's different

[primal siren]

it is a browser..

it uses Chromium..

[south ridge]

That's not a browser

Just a rendering engine

[primal siren]

...

the web browser widget inlays Chromium

Chromium IS a browswer

[cursive dirge]

many game UIs use browser tech too

[primal siren]

-w

[cursive dirge]

it's not the same thing

[vale osprey]

it doesn't magically loads your profile from firefox or chrome, so its pointless to them

[south ridge]

I know, it's pretty ridiculous, but that module you're using is a renderer and all the infrastructure required, but isn't a browser

[primal siren]

...

[south ridge]

It doesn't go to arbitrary pages and doesn't store your profile and stuff

[wary wave]

you only need to spend two minutes reading their terms of service to know you can't do it

"you agree not to access Content through any technology or means other than the video playback pages of the Website itself, the YouTube Player, or such other means as YouTube may explicitly designate for this purpose"

[cursive dirge]

yeah

I don't even have to read their site to know they must forbid it

[wary wave]

https://www.youtube.com/static?template=terms&gl=GB

[cursive dirge]

it would be so easy to exploit otherwise

[wary wave]

it's violating several parts of their terms

[primal siren]

i don't see how it is, so i guess an email to youtube to verify is the way

it is very much a browser

[south ridge]

Not trying to simply argue here, but they are correct and youtube will find SOME way to consider your video as a one breaking TOS

[primal siren]

you are viewing the website, just like any other browser

[south ridge]

It doesn't have to be those parts of TOS

[cursive dirge]

btw I saw this on https://partner.steamgames.com/steamdirect ```What you shouldn’t publish on Steam:

1. Hate speech, i.e. speech that promotes hatred, violence or discrimination against groups of people based on ethnicity, religion, gender, age, disability or sexual orientation
2. Pornography
3. Adult content that isn’t appropriately labeled and age-gated
4. Libelous or defamatory statements
5. Content you don’t own or have adequate rights to
6. Content that violates the laws of any jurisdiction in which it will be available
7. Content that is patently offensive or intended to shock or disgust viewers
8. Content that exploits children in any way
9. Applications that modify customer’s computers in unexpected or harmful ways, such as malware or viruses
10. Applications that fraudulently attempts to gather sensitive information, such as Steam credentials or financial data (e.g. credit card information)

so, does 8. Content that exploits children in any way mean we can report all those games with loot crates???

[wary wave]

haha

[vale osprey]

😄

[south ridge]

Only in some places

Wasn't there a lawsuit

Against Valve

Pretty much in that venue

[cursive dirge]

should be

[south ridge]

With CS:GO gambling

[cursive dirge]

hope they lost 😄

[primal siren]

valve is the one that created the lawsuit

[cursive dirge]

Valve / game publisher

oh

[primal siren]

against people who ran the gambling

[cursive dirge]

dang

[south ridge]

It was basically "Valve is enabling CS:GO gambling 4 kids plz no"

[primal siren]

valve does not do the gambling

[cursive dirge]

Valve created the market

[south ridge]

I'm pretty sure there was a lawsuit against valve specifically

[wary wave]

no, it was against Valve

and it was dismissed in court

[south ridge]

For not killing those sites

[primal siren]

they aren't the ones doing the gambling

3rd party websites are

[wary wave]

the argument was that Valve don't facilitate gambling any more than any other product that provides randomised goods (trading cards, kinder eggs, happy meals etc)

[primal siren]

and then youtubers were sprooking them pretending they had no involvement

[cursive dirge]

but some games DO the gambling in-game

like Rocket League, Overwatch, the new Mordor game etc

[wary wave]

I don't know any that do any actual gambling in game

yeah, that's not gambling, since you can't get money directly out

[cursive dirge]

even Pokemon GO if you think about it

[wary wave]

Valve's platform also doesn't allow you to get money out

[cursive dirge]

you pay real money to win random item

[wary wave]

it's the same as the aforementioned trading cards paradigm

[cursive dirge]

that's gambling to me

[primal siren]

it would depend on the country/states definition of gambling i guess

[wary wave]

might be gambling to you, but legally it is not

not unless the vendor has a system to exchange those bought items back into money

[cursive dirge]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling

[wary wave]

Valve is right on the line with that one, since you can get 'credit' in your account

[cursive dirge]

ok, material goods

[wary wave]

but it's credit, not money

[vale osprey]

@cursive dirge the same with pechenko machines in Japan - not gambling legally

[cursive dirge]

it's still immoral

[vale osprey]

It is

It uses same mechanics

[wary wave]

I don't disagree that it's not right

[vale osprey]

But there are no legislation against it for now

[wary wave]

but it is distinct from gambling in that you also know precisely what you're getting - there's no risk of coming out with nothing

[vale osprey]

And that's why they use it - there will be one in feature. Japan is already busy with it

[wary wave]

you can come out with items that you percieve as valueless, but that value is relative to you only

China is the only country that legislates against it

[vale osprey]

From all the places 😄

[wary wave]

games that do it must be registered with gambling commissions and they must have the odds for everything on public display

[primal siren]

so im guessing no one on has experience with the Web Browser Widget - specifically user interaction while set to World (not Screen) mode?

crickets

[valid stratus]

bit of a weird question but: does anyone know a rough figure for how much data a gameserver sends out per second? Take for example UT4, how much information about player positions/velocity/viewangles, etc, is broadcast a second? I understand tickrate would affect this, and the number of players/physics, but I'm looking for a rough "filesize"

[primal siren]

10man ut server full/active only uses about 1mbps

[sudden agate]

@valid stratus https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Gameplay/Tools/NetworkProfiler/

[valid stratus]

thanks!

[sacred crater]

https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/700616/split-struct-bp-nodes-dont-update-or-throw-warning.html structs really are broken in blueprints

[weary basalt]

Yep they certainly are.

They have never truly worked right.

Always been something

[sacred crater]

They were okay for a while, up until 4.17

4.17 is giving a lot of issues

[weary basalt]

More than usual then. Ive always come across some issue with structs

[sacred crater]

yeah more then usual

they always have issues :p

In my own secret game I'm making I won't have a single struct in blueprints :p

They're all defined in c++

[dawn linden]

Yesterday I did a whole day of in-editor/blueprint work, which I rarely do, most often working in Visual Studio. The editor crashed countless times, at various different points in code. Anyone else having stability issues in 4.17?

[weary basalt]

Yeah personally i gave up on BP structs. I do the same and define them in C++

[sacred crater]

4.17 is a wee bit unstable, yeah

[dawn linden]

Happened so often I started wondering if I might have some low level corruption somewhere.

Maybe the new blueprint compilation manager has something to do with it.

[glossy flame]

@livid haven nothing against you, but I think you've just got a few Git concepts a little wrong (don't worry, I'd probably be worse with P4, hehe)

Pulling isn't the same as a pull request—yes, they're named similarly but don't quite do the same thing

Pulling simply integrates remote changes into your local repo

[cloud cobalt]

Everyone has the Git concepts wrong (:

[glossy flame]

Pull requests are what I think you're talking about: requesting changes to be integrated into a centralized repo

[cloud cobalt]

(Trolling aside, that's true)

[glossy flame]

Hehe, I agree :p

I think it's important to realize that pull requests are completely handled by an outside piece of software like GitHub—there is no concept of the sort in Git itself

[cloud cobalt]

I think pull requests have an awkward name - technically accurate but confusing as hell for beginners. It should be called "change request" or something like that

[glossy flame]

Yeah...I mean, Git was kinda confusing at the beginning once I tried to overcomplicate it, so I'm not faulting anybody for mixing stuff up

And also Sion, I think you might have pull and checkout a little mixed up :p

Checkout simply changes what branches your local files are on, so you can make changes and switch between branches whenever you want—as long as you commit your changes, you can switch branches all you want and the Git client handles the files on disk

I think you bring up some good points too, but especially for small projects where having a server may be out of scope and collaborative work, Git is just the standard at this point

[cloud cobalt]

Checkout is P4's pull IIRC

[vale osprey]

man, I would really love some out of the box cloud P4

so far I only see it as an option with amazon but it seams you still have to do bunch of setup manually

[glossy flame]

...that might explain something @cloud cobalt, haha

[vale osprey]

Cloud Helix didn't worked out unfortunately

[cloud cobalt]

Yeah, it's confusing for people who come from something else

Git's problem is that it's built for Linux kernel dev. It's meant for source files, with large teams that commit code changes. It's hands-on the best in class at this.

For other users, it ranges from decent to bad

My problem with P4, on the other hand, is that it's not trying to compete. It has a market share where it works very well, and it's not trying to be anything else - it's just trying to milk that market very hard

And honestly, most indie teams would be crazy to pay for Perforce, for the value it provides. Not saying Git is the one they should use, but SVN does a very decent job and works a bit like Perforce, so it's less confusing

At least Git or SVN are arguably going the right way while Perforce closes itself down

[onyx mural]

sure beats tfs

[cloud cobalt]

The situation is a bit infuriating imho because source controls is business critical softare, and it sucks to not have any great choice

[onyx mural]

i'm using AWS code commit at the moment and praying they put in a pull-esque feature

[frank escarp]

the problem is that P4 is the only one who can deal with binary well

[onyx mural]

define well

[frank escarp]

git LFS can work, but its definitely a LOT worse than p4

for example, it chokes

HARD

try to add a whole unreal project to git with LFS

in my case, i had to do like 8 separated commits

becouse it choked

[vale osprey]

Well as in not taking 30 minutes to sync

[frank escarp]

also, my .git folder is 50 gb

doesnt happen with p4

given that i have my projects in an ssd...

[onyx mural]

I have no idea how codecommit treats large files in the back end - whatever it does just works. but I switched to it after having issues with bitbuckets LFS

[frank escarp]

git LFS just saves another copy of the full file

perforce uses deltas

so if you have a 100 mb map

and commit it 10 times, but just changing the location of 1 object

[vale osprey]

@frank escarp do you run P4 server locally?

[frank escarp]

then perforce will be something like 110mb

while git will be 1 gb

this is dramatic as hell with textures

becouse a 4k texture is 64 megabytes

so every single commit is +64 megabytes

even if you only changed a setting in the texture

or a couple pixels

[cloud cobalt]

Not really, if you're using something like TGA

The diff will be small

[frank escarp]

@cloud cobalt git just saves the whole file again

p4 saves deltas

[cloud cobalt]

Ah, right

[frank escarp]

and thats with LFS

[onyx mural]

deltas always work better on uncompressed file formats

long and short of it.

[frank escarp]

without LFS, if you make someone clone the repo

he clones every single version of that texture ever

[cloud cobalt]

I don't have LFS and my ~10GB repo behaves decently (not 30s to commit)

[frank escarp]

have you checked the size of the repo if someone clones it?

[cloud cobalt]

That's a non-issue for us

It could be 50Gb and it would be fine (it's not 50Gb)

[dawn linden]

You can specify clone depth in git. Haven't used LFS but assume the same option is there.

[cloud cobalt]

But I'll be the first to say that Git sucks for binary assets

Just sucks less than having to pay a license for something like source control

It's like paying for a file explorer or a web browser

[glossy flame]

Yeah, for me the discussion only exists because P4 is free for 5 and under, for personal use I don't really think Git has much competition

Then again, P4 isn't really going for the personal market, which is fine

P4 is a business, I think that's the big difference

[cloud cobalt]

P4 used to be free for 20 users, and I fail to see which dramatic improvements in the last 5 years deserved to make it paying for indies

Especially now that the competition does free hosting and offers plenty of online tools

It just looks a lot like fucking customers

[glossy flame]

Yeah, Git has literally no competition for over-the-internet-open-source type projects

It's just what you use :p

[cloud cobalt]

I think there is actually a case to be made for Git in business. You don't care about repo size inside a company, like at all

Having to clone 100Gb is non an issue if you have UE4-capable hardware

[cursive dirge]

it's mainly painfull to clone the fresh copy

oh crap

also painful that discord still don't know what autoscroll is in 2017

[cloud cobalt]

Talking about ana ctual business with an office

😃

[cursive dirge]

VSTS still has free git + lfs 😃

for small teams anyway

and unlimited repo size

[shell jetty]

@cursive dirge like autoscroll backwards even you have scrolled to bottom and commended it

in discord

[cursive dirge]

also, I don't think the git repo size is a real issue either in business side

there are some things that really bloat traditional git though, like lightmass bakes

if you do dynamically lit game, that's a lot better already

[cloud cobalt]

We don't work locally here and cloning a 10Gb repo is pretty fast even with home connectivity (regular 100Mbps)

[cursive dirge]

yeah, I've done school project which had 8GB git repo

nobody really complained

[oblique sorrel]

Going to an interview, wish me luck!

[cursive dirge]

and that was on github 😄

gl

[cloud cobalt]

Good luck !

[shell jetty]

Good Luck

having 20M/1M connection kinda make big repos painful

[cloud cobalt]

Yeah, it depends on where you live. Over here I think most big cities have gigabit connectivity available for a low price

And a large majority can get 100mb

[cursive dirge]

even that 20M is ok for such git repo size

you only suffer from the size on initial clone

[shell jetty]

ADSL max speed but soon fiber so it helps

[cursive dirge]

I have 50/10 on VDSL2

it's still the same phoneline copper

(as with ADSL)

[cloud cobalt]

Fiber is so prevalent in my city, my ADSL line is 2Mbps

Why update when everyone has at least coax fiber 😄

(the "old" 100mb thing that moves to copper cables after it enters the building)

[shell jetty]

stranger you have had cableTV?

[cloud cobalt]

We call it fiber over here, but I think it's what the US call cable

It's a fiber to the building, then TV cabling that does phone/tv/internet

[shell jetty]

using coax

[cloud cobalt]

yeah

[shell jetty]

not a option here

no coax cable line in this part of city at all

[plush yew]

Please welcome @obtuse furnace to the community! :beers:

Please welcome @fallow stag to the community! :beers:

[fallow stag]

Sorry, just left and rejoined on my proper Discord :p

[cloud cobalt]

Yeah it depends on where you live. Over here I think something like half the country has access to at least 100mb

[shell jetty]

was planned to build years ago but it seems money lines get dry so they leave a loop so now fiber what is improvement from dsl only

welcome to Unreal Slackers @fallow stag

[fallow stag]

Thanks

[shell jetty]

@cloud cobalt it is strange when 4G connection is faster than your broadband connectivity using wire

[fallow stag]

I don't know too much about Unreal, my background is mainly Source

[shell jetty]

you learn Unreal for sure

[cursive dirge]

or

https://img.devrant.io/devrant/rant/r_504543_xV25c.jpg

[shell jetty]

@cursive dirge was there pill choice for Unity and Unreal?

using matrix

[cursive dirge]

I dunno

was it red vs blue?

becuase that's amd vs intel then

[cloud cobalt]

Kinda hopeful AMD gets back in the game for good

Also hoping that UE4 gets better on MT, since IPC has finally hit the final wall

"See, it's 3% faster in some banchmarks !" - Intel every year

Also hopeful AMD fixes its driver game on Linux

[shell jetty]

http://www.ingeniouspress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/matrix-blue-red-pill-512-x-332.jpg

yeah blue and red pill

[fallow stag]

@cloud cobalt I've always just used the open source drivers; they perform just as well if not better I find

[paper kernel]

anyone worked with physics animations here?

[vague spire]

hey people, would love to receive free private tuitions over skype on how to create my own noughts and crosses

[cloud cobalt]

@fallow stag We've got a number of refunds with our game on Linux due to kernal panics in the OSS driver

Mostly on old hardware that the AMDPRO thing doesn't handle

Modern hardware apparently works better, but we still had to put an AMD warning on the store page

[inner mountain]

@vague spire in case of help channel it will be constantly filled by all types of questions and will be a mess 😃

[vague spire]

but at least it will sort out the people who want to help and need help

couldnt hurt either way

[inner mountain]

about your request – probably, the tic-tac-toe is the most common game to find a tutorial in internet... not a private by skype, but with any level of details and for any level of prior knowledge...

[vague spire]

by that logic, the general chat should be an utter mess

and im not great with tutorials over the net, especially with game design

and if i needed someone to tell me "go check the net" I wouldn't have asked here

[cloud cobalt]

People generally won't coach you. Do something, ask for feedback

[vague spire]

why not? I've coached many people over skype for nothing

what happened to that sense of teaching something completely new?

[cloud cobalt]

It went on Youtube doing multi-user coaching

[vague spire]

great, thanks, i know youtube exists

[cloud cobalt]

I'm not being a dick, btw. I once wrote a giant UDK tutorial that covered most of the engine 😃 Just being real here

[inner mountain]

I very doubt many people have enough time for private coaching easpecially via skype (which requires 100% of that time)

[cloud cobalt]

People with real skill have very little time to spare for just one person specifically

It's a much better use of time to coach 1000 people at once

[vague spire]

I've taught Blender over whole days, learning quite a bit myself

the winnings are, you learn quite a few things, you practice at what you do and you're helping a few people learn a great software

its better than twiddling the thumbs, thats all

[cloud cobalt]

And you can also do it on Youtube and it will be the same with vastly more people, or you can sell your coaching on Patreon on something. Times change

Plenty of people here will be happy to teach you over an open channel where others can learn too

😃

[vague spire]

nah, i dont want to sell my coaching, i love doing what i do and i love separating my professional life with my tuitions

so, i guess there are people like that

[cloud cobalt]

Then go ahead ! I'm just explaining why that's a rare thing.

[vague spire]

thats true, and thats why im asking

because theres a chance

but apparently theres a higher chance of someone saying theres a very little chance

which is totally understandable, thank you for the information

[cloud cobalt]

For what it's worth I'll definitely answer things I can here, when I'm here. I wouldn't do it on private though

[vague spire]

alright then

thanks

[inner mountain]

@vague spire look for this page, there are list of people who'd like to be a mentor in some fields:
http://stephaniehurlburt.com/blog/2016/11/14/list-of-engineers-willing-to-mentor-you

the continue is on twitter here in the replies: https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/889004724669661184

Stephanie Hurlburt (@sehurlburt)

For people who are in a position to give help: Post to your timeline every now & then that you're open to questions. That makes a difference

Retweets

234

Likes

761

Twitter

[vague spire]

if you want any private blender lessons, id be more than happy to do it, i manage to do both

[cloud cobalt]

I'd be happy to provide answers on Blender too, using that exclusively for my own game 😃

[inner mountain]

already purchased a blender course on udemy... :(

[cloud cobalt]

It could be worse - you could have shelled out $4K for Max

[inner mountain]

weeeell... In my country it's ok to get it from torrents 😄

[spare topaz]

is there a reason simulatephysics messes up the AttachToActor stuff?

[inner mountain]

btw I've played in Max in my school ages (early 2000s) and it was pretty obvious... While I've launched Blender recently, I didn't understood how to do anything

[cloud cobalt]

Different ideas

@spare topaz Yeah, that makes sense. You can't both be attched and simulating physics while the root isn't for example

Attaching also does stuff like merging objects

(Or not. It's a mess.)

[spare topaz]

oh, forgot to elaborate the situation. I do use SetPhysicsSimulation false before attaching

it only acts like it should after I Alt-Tab/Shift-F1 for some reason

[vague spire]

@inner mountain it's a pretty keyboard intensive program, after a while, you'd be able to make anything without the use of buttons in the interface

[oblique sorrel]

Well, I think I might've failed. I'm a self-taught, practical man, that knows how to do stuff but doesn't always know how's it called. And they were asking names. A lot.

My interview, that js

[inner mountain]

@oblique sorrel if you're looking for js job I can suggest a hardcore position (I'm working in that company)

@oblique sorrel it's 100% remote full-time contract

[spare topaz]

seems like anything that would move the object will fail if I even consider making that object have physics, whether is just plain setlocation or something like attaching

[sudden agate]

Yo, I have question where to store my data.
My Game is meant to be played as a single campaign, but other players can join (up to three).

Since the Host's Campaign is played i thought it was a good idea to store the game stuff (current Party, TimeOfDay) in the GameInstance however, the Data needs to be transferred between all clients in Multiplayer.
How do I keep the Data in GameInstance and GameState/GameMode in sync?

[vale osprey]

@spare topaz SimulatePhysics effectively detaches object

[spare topaz]

Well, the current problem is that the object will not obey setactorlocation if its physics options have been tampered with at any point

[paper kernel]

@sudden agate you dont have to transfer those specifically, you let regular replication deal with those, just load the values when creating session

[vale osprey]

@spare topaz well, it's not a great idea to play with SetLocation on objects that simulate physics, physics engine is suppose to do that

[spare topaz]

basically I have a pawn that fires a linetrace, that linetrace hits the object and calls interface function on that object, the function sets physics off and should move it 200 units up

[sudden agate]

@paper kernel GameInstance does not replicate 😛

[vale osprey]

@spare topaz sounds fine

[paper kernel]

yes I'm aware it doesn't

[spare topaz]

well my engine disagrees

everything else but the location change happens

[paper kernel]

but you dont do gameplay related code in gameinstance

[sudden agate]

@paper kernel It's just data, nothin more

[paper kernel]

just set gamemode and gamestate fetch the variables from gameinstance on beginplay

like weather and stuff

[sudden agate]

Hm, I guess you are right 😛

Thanks

[paper kernel]

don't forget the auth check

[sudden agate]

Me? Never 😄

[spare topaz]

so all my problems happened because the component that had physics on was not the root component

[plush yew]

Please welcome @plush yew to the community! :beers:

YEAH

THIS PLACE HAS BEER

😄

Please welcome @west plume to the community! :beers:

[primal siren]

anyone on with experience using the Web Browser Widget?

lol hey

yeah i have no idea. there's no widget section

it's not exactly UI either

[safe rose]

@pastel prairie hmmmm

@pastel prairie You put Data-only in quotes

So you'll need to be a bit more specific

Are we talking about UObjects or something like GameMode, that "Data-only" is tricky without context

Ah

Pretty sure that only happens when you don't put anything in the graph

That's what I figured you were talking about

TBH, never gave it much thought about it before. But my assumption is that they differentiate between "Data-Only" (Variables to modify) vs "Logic Implemented" (Stuff in Event Graphs)

Well

I suppose you technically, just modified it

It usually pops up when you create classes and don't do anything with them

(some classes anyway)

But, children classes get them also

If you don't edit their graphs

Like I said, I've never really gave it more of a thought than: it is what it is.

@pastel prairie So, did you close out the editor?

You have to, to get it back to "data-only", test it out

Once you make any modification, until you close out the editor and come back, it will stay that way. Again, never gave it more thought, my assumption is... since you modified it already, there's a chance you'lll do more modifications in the future until you close out the editor.

So Epic devs probably just programmed it that way.

But really, it's not much trouble between that and clicking Class Defaults is it?

Well, I guess if you add anything to it, it isn't "data-only" anymore 😉

And I would agree

[vale osprey]

@pastel prairie make a child BP from it and it will be data only again

[safe rose]

Since component can be visual

[vale osprey]

in theory 😄

[safe rose]

Aye, children will do it (I said that earlier)

[vale osprey]

it's proper, data only means you are only changing parameters, by adding components you make it a different class

as in - something have to treat those components. Try doing the same in c++ and you will see that you can't do it without writing additional code

unless everything is build around adding components in constructor on a basis of some external configuration

[safe rose]

Aye, I mean, it's just something you get used to

Literally never really thought about the logic behind it until now, never had a reason to

I can get it at Class Defaults anytime

And if I wanted "data-only" classes, I probably wouldn't use actors

And I would make heavy use of Datatables

[shell jetty]

Grand Children could do it

[safe rose]

@pastel prairie Hmm..nah, your logic is flawed

Especially if we're specifically talking about components

Which can represent visual stuff

The issue here: Viewport

Even though you can use scene components with no visual representations

Some people...even use Scene Component WITH data-only instead of using Actor Components...

[toxic vale]

Is there a easy site or somewhere to find people that wish to test games?, no eu friends, FeelsBadman

[safe rose]

@toxic vale There are professional playtesters, other than that, just ask around.

[toxic vale]

fair enuff,

[polar hawk]

A component addition rightly makes something not data only

Adding a component adds additional runtime requirements, even if its just meant to be CDO'd

When you get a CDO, you're actually using a 'default instance' of it

Its possible to get a mutable CDO

When means if you change a property on it, all subsequent CDOs will be affected

In a very simplified way, all the shit in your content browser is a CDO

Not really, but its a simplification that you can logically work with

[plush yew]

.-.

[plush yew]

Please welcome @silk pumice to the community! :beers:

[silk pumice]

hello

[safe rose]

@silk pumice sup

[reef python]

Is there any good tutorial on how to setup multiplayer with c++?

[plush yew]

w0t

Im ne

new

[safe rose]

@reef python yup

Go to #multiplayer look at pinned

[silk pumice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKRrLJ4kmFE&t=2s I have been insterested in the workflow the guy assigns few modular meshes to a spline so the tunnel will "self generate" as he extends the spline. Can t he similar workflow be used so that If I create 4 different cave pieces for example it would randomly spawn those based on the spline so you wont get that much repetition?

[safe rose]

Also, ShooterGame

@silk pumice you can do whatever your heart wants

There are plenty of cave systems

[silk pumice]

yea well I mean "artist friendly" like without programming a new feature or anything is it like built in already? 😛 any idea if there is tutorial for that

Im actually creating a street myself so I would spawn randomized balconies and houses

[reef python]

@safe rose Thanks

[silk pumice]

just dont want it to spawn always the same hosue

[safe rose]

I don't think my GoggleFu would be any better than yours

[patent siren]

i miss the old forums

[reef python]

For a open battlefield multiplayer fps would hitscan or bullet physics be the best option wich one should i use

[polar hawk]

Why not both?

Why not neither?

[plush yew]

Please welcome @shut gulch to the community! :beers:

[vagrant burrow]

I'd say bullet physics, but that's personal preference. Depends on what kind of game you want.

[reef python]

@vagrant burrow Something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxhiMJUJvls

[vagrant burrow]

@reef python it's kinda hard to tell from that video because most of it isn't shooting and most of the shots I found are close range, but I'd guess they're probably using hitscan.

[reef python]

ok

Is the hitscan coming from the player camera or the end of the weapon?

[vagrant burrow]

The hitscan is probably coming from a combination of both. It comes from the weapon but aims at the player camera center.

But keep in mind that hitscan is usually considered the 'lesser' form of shooting, because hitscans are essentially lasers, not bullets.

Meaning bullet drop isn't possible (at least not without tweaking)

But most games will use a combination of hitscan and physics.

[paper kernel]

there is a projectile path - prediction function in the engine now

so you don't have to do the math yourself

[plush yew]

Please welcome @plush yew to the community! :beers:

Is anyone familiar with using assembla as ther p4 host? Every time I try to set up a new computer for it it always says that I haven't set up host even though all settings are correct (and exactly the same as on a working connection)

Their documentation is crap, and sometimes even wrong

[polar hawk]

https://twitter.com/MichaelAllar/status/902259235085365248

Michael Allar (@MichaelAllar)

Just so yall know, @UnrealEngine Blueprints treat this wiring very differently. #ue4 #gamedev #indiedev

Twitter

[paper kernel]

interesting 🤔

[shut gulch]

Good to know. I am curious, I haven't done much blueprint debugging yet, how were you able to figure this out and how did it manifest itself? high CPU usage?

[polar hawk]

I had a breakpoint inside Get Items of Class

Got called far too many times

Also, after the for each loop I'm calling something that modifies the result of Get Items of Class

So it was acting strangely because instead of working on a copy of the array I kept working on the most up to date version fo the array

Even though I wasn't working with the array by ref

[paper kernel]

so ForEachLoop itself was calling the most up-to-date array

[polar hawk]

Well it was re-running that GetItemsOfClass

which returns a newer up to date array

Which is not what I wanted

[paper kernel]

yea it makes sense

[plush yew]

Please welcome @sonic snow to the community! :beers:

[paper kernel]

well you could get around that by with custom foreach loop that stores a copy before starting

which would probably not be all-around solution for memory limited projects

[cloud cobalt]

@primal siren You'll be happy to know (and me too, really) that both refunds and VAT are not subject to royalties for Epic Games.

[plush yew]

Please welcome @young bronze to the community! :beers:

[kindred dagger]

Quick question for you guys - if I'm trying to set up a casual team of beginners/intermediate game devs from any branch of the tree (for the purpose of building portfolios for future careers through free work or projects), is there a place I could post on here to advertise it?

[obsidian nimbus]

4chan 😛

ow here... mayB jobs

[kindred dagger]

@obsidian nimbus yeah I was thinking jobs too, but I wasn't 100% so I thought I'd get a few opinions before I go shooting off ads in the wrong channel

[polar hawk]

Gotta go post back in 2008

[kindred dagger]

@polar hawk I don't follow haha

[polar hawk]

There used to be a time where you needed a team to survive

Now everyone can literally do everything

[kindred dagger]

I'm with ya on that one. I can do everything I need to do, it's just most stuff takes a lot longer for me to do than what I specialize in @_@

[polar hawk]

aye

[kindred dagger]

I'll probably start in the jobs channel then and go from there

[pallid compass]

Gonna boot zbrush in the face

Decimate master is being a pain in the ass

[crimson sky]

@vagrant burrow Hey I feel you man, you are right. See I have my own vision and I know what I want, just wanted to get some others opinions as an insurance thing you know?

[plush yew]

Please welcome @plush yew to the community! :beers:

[livid haven]

Late response. @glossy flame I do have some of the terminology for Git mixed up, no doubt, but I have used it for months, but not used it in many many many months now.

I find the terminology to not be intuitive at all.

[plush yew]

Please welcome @wooden willow to the community! :beers:

[livid haven]

I'd love the best of both Git and Perforce, but no one seems to have it. Competing with widely adopted OSS and widely adopted proprietary software is a losing bet without a whole lot of sunk cost to even carve out a market.

You need to be good, from the get to, to even get any adoption.

Kind of like Facebook - no one is going to beat Facebook. Users are entrenched there. They'd need to get so bad and you'd need to be so good that users are willing to mass migrate as one. Same idea with making a P4 or Git competitor.

[vivid girder]

You all might enjoy my post on the topic https://forums.unrealengine.com/community/general-discussion/121068-version-control-git-lfs-vs-perforce-vs-svn

So, gonna repost the same question i had yesterday... Anyone know why my meshes would be disappearing in game view?

But visible when simulating and in Editor view?

Editor view

Game View

[wooden willow]

Anyone familiar with programming endless runner in unreal engine

[safe rose]

@wooden willow umm

You can just look at the epic example?

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Videos/PLZlv_N0_O1gbY4FN8pZuEPVC9PzQThNn1/

You can probably Google a bunch more also.

[tidal lichen]

Hello. For some reason I can't import a mesh with morph targets into Unreal. I made a shape with a few blendshapes in Maya and exported it making sure to check the needed checkboxes. Then I think I correctly imported the fbx file into Unreal checking the right boxes too. But I don't have any morph targets in unreal. What can be causing that?

[safe rose]

@tidal lichen hmm shit

We ran into this problem a few months back

Some stupid bug

You had to reimport

[livid haven]

@vivid girder I don't think anyone's got any specific ideas anymore. You're going to have to really try to debug this.

Can you make a new level and place that mesh in it and see it?

[safe rose]

And then it should work.

[livid haven]

Can you make a new level and place that actor in it (rather than just the mesh, which actually makes a dumb stastic mesh actor)?

Can you replace the material for the mesh and see it?

As ever, debugging is about stepping through what is happening and what isn't. If thinks don't seem to make sense, you need to cut out another layer of assumptions you've made and question what you've taken for granted.

[tidal lichen]

@safe rose thanks. It worked but what's weird is that I had to reimport it from the content browser. When I reimported from persona nothing worked. Weird bug

[safe rose]

@tidal lichen yes it is some dumb bug

One day it will get fixed. But it isn't a terribly tough workaround once you know it

[livid haven]

Oh boy. Installing the Linux subsystem on to my Windows 10 install. It's downloading Ubuntu now.

This'll be interesting.

[toxic vale]

is there a easy way to make so a car cant drive forward but still gain RPM?

(blueprint)

[plush yew]

Please welcome @azure sierra to the community! :beers:

[azure sierra]

hey hey!

is there a way to extract values from a uasset file via the command line?

[livid haven]

@azure sierra Command line? No.

Not directly.

You could write a function that is executed from the commandline to do it.

Or you could write a commandlet, which is basically a small program that runs like the editor.

[azure sierra]

where can i get more information on that?

basically i have the devkit for a game that has these asset files i wanna get the values from to create an external tool for

[primal siren]

@wary wave @cursive dirge a response from the youtube partner program has said it is 100% OK to put tutorial videos in games through the web browser widget and have them monetised. it's still viewing the content through their playback pages of the service.

there is no ToS breach

[livid haven]

@azure sierra All kinds of complications if you're not able to access the codebase.

[plush yew]

That moment when you're planning a character, find they're too similar to Reinhardt from Overwatch and scrap the concept because you know the 0.000002% of people ever who play your game will go on and on about it

I basically tried designing a Stealth/Tank, but failed miserably

I tried to make them the kind of "Stop the enemy from reaching the alarm" kinda Stealth, rather than the "Sneaky Ninja" type like most Stealth characters

Since I have forced Stealth, so I wanted a character people could use if they didn't want to have to traditional Stealth

And basically his whole gimmick was stunning people and blocking off alarms with EMPs

I already have 1 similar character - 2 gets you into the "ripoff" zone

(Even though I made Reaper to mock D.Va and their logic behind her)

[livid haven]

Happens.

Only so much you can do about it.

It's good to be aware, but don't let it ruin your design either.

<-- worked on Smite (unfortunately)

[plush yew]

Blizzard: "Oh, Korean gamers have fast reactions so they can fight gud"
Santa Donut: "Highly trained mech fighters have decent reactions so they have to rely on the machinery rather than reaction times"

[livid haven]

Which had a mixture of intentional ripping off and can't-avoid-the-comparisons-even-though-we-didn't-rip-it-off.

[plush yew]

Alot of games have that and I don't wanna be the next one

Even though most people won't even know Reaper's a female

[livid haven]

I have no idea what you're on about anymore.

[plush yew]

I'm on about how dumb Blizzard's logic is

[livid haven]

Was pretty sure Reaper is a black man, but... not really relevant.

[plush yew]

(not Overwatch Reaper)

(dead silent "just doing my job" hitwoman in a death machine Reaper)

[livid haven]

Ah

[plush yew]

(the one who I'm still thinking of reworking due to how good she is)

She essentially gives you an extra team member who can use one of her abilities with a quarter of the cooldown

At the cost of losing out on some of the better secondaries

Since every character has a preset primary and 3 secondaries to choose from, and Reaper has some quality secondaries.

She has a stun shotgun which basically just sets her up for insta-kills at the cost of basically all of her cooldowns and a second minigun which spins up slower but does overall just under her primary's damage.

If her Primary was 20 DPS, her secondary minigun would be 17

[thorn topaz]

Any idea how to debug a project that is crashing on run after it's been packaged?

[bleak copper]

That's a struggle, for sure.

I think when it happened to me, it was because I didn't realize that I needed all assets to be in the Content folder. (It was my first UE4 project.)

[thorn topaz]

That's not the issue. It's packaged and worked before but now it's not

[bleak copper]

You should be able to package it as a debug build, though. Attach a VS debugger to it.

[thorn topaz]

the error message is "Assertion failed: RecursionNotAllowed.Increment() == 1 [File:D:\Build++UE4+Release-4.16+Compile\Sync\Engine\Source\Runtime\CoreUObject\Private\Serialization\AsyncLoading.cpp] [Line: 4141] &nl;&nl;

and there's only 1 instance of recursion in the project which I don't see why it would be complaining

I've had plenty of other projects not complain about recursion when packaging

[bleak copper]

Yeah... it's a specific assertion. Package a debug build and attach VS debugger to it as it launches.

Get the full stack trace.

[thorn topaz]

I'll see if I can, it pretty much crashes right when I launch it haha

[bleak copper]

If it crashes with debug symbols, VS will break on the assert.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/0bxe8ytt.aspx

[thorn topaz]

ah cool, thanks

[bleak copper]

Make sure you package as a debug game though

[thorn topaz]

yea it's packaging now

[bleak copper]

Should default shipping

But that will kill some debug symbols you need

Cool

[thorn topaz]

and just finished

ok so i created the project in vs but when I hit start with debugging, it crashes without breaking

[bleak copper]

Odd... I would have thought UE4's assert would trip that. Hrm

Thing is, it's not really a "crash". Some UE4 fail-safe is triggering an assert.

Someone at Epic put code to check for a condition and pull the plug when it happens.

.> Would have thought you could get the stack trace at that moment from the debugger though, even if it's a separate executable

[thorn topaz]

I'm going to disable the recursive function and see if that changes anything

it still crashes with the same error. hmmm

figured out a fix

something to do with "Event Driven Loading"

[tranquil osprey]

Hey guys i'm updating my portfolio and was wondering if you guys can provide some feedback to what to improve. http://sandervereecken.com/

[frosty bloom]

@tranquil osprey phew, no need for improvement

Got some real high end clients paying you when you've done stuff such as Horizon

[toxic wagon]

Yo, is there a way to filter mipmaps a different way than UE4's default filter?

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/images/1/17/Vtf_sharpen_filters.jpg something like this

[plush yew]

Please welcome @plush yew to the community! :beers:

Please welcome @plush yew to the community! :beers:

[deep gust]

@plush yew when i open a level the scene color of post pro gets unchecked in UE4, why ?

Anyone ?

[plush yew]

Please welcome @oblique fable to the community! :beers:

[plush yew]

Please welcome @green nest to the community! :beers:

Please welcome @winter onyx to the community! :beers:

[cloud cobalt]

@toxic wagon Probably too late but sure, just go the the filter settings in the texture editor

You're going to find even more than that

Well I answered after someone else did. Don't multi-post on different channels please -_-

[plush yew]

Please welcome @honest raven to the community! :beers:

[honest raven]

Hiya guys! 😃

[cloud cobalt]

Hi

[plush yew]

Please welcome @zinc grail to the community! :beers:

[zinc grail]

Hello everyone.

[buoyant mesa]

why UE4 can use object pivotpoint instead of world origin? I'm really sad this thing has still not implemented inside unreal engine 4 while unity had it for ages now 😢

[cloud cobalt]

What do you mean ?

[buoyant mesa]

it would save tons of time when you could just import whole scene from blender/max etc and pivotpoints would be where they rationally thinking should be

I mean the insane job of building same scene again inside ue4 that you had already made in 3D software...the problem is that you had to bring every single object back to world origin 0.0.0 to had it pivotpoint in right spot

[cloud cobalt]

Just have the Blender origin wjere you want the pivot 😃

[buoyant mesa]

unity does this million times better and saves tons of times

[cloud cobalt]

You only need to do it once, after that create all your assets that way

[buoyant mesa]

I mean multiple object export

only one pivot point is used for them all even if they have they own set in blender

[cloud cobalt]

Then move all your assets at the same spot ? Or have a separate file for every asset ?

But sure if you want to export all assets from a Blender level, you'll need work

[buoyant mesa]

that is exactly the problem I have to build that same scene again inside UE4

I cant just export whole set of assets and smile while they all keep their pivot points and locations like in unity

[cloud cobalt]

Yeah

[stable arrow]

Does anyone knows why my AR Toolkit and sample project not working with Visual studios 2017??

Does it only support VS2015 to build?

[whole quarry]

Is VS2017 already supported by UE4?

[frank escarp]

@toxic wagon yes

you can select what downsampling you want for the mipmaps

its on the texture settings

i have a lot of care with that when i do VR hud in textures, as mipmaps are critical there to have nice quality text

properly mipmapped text is WAY better in vr

the sad thing is that UMG doesnt mipmap

so you cant have dynamic text in UMG that mipmaps

[shell jetty]

UMG minimap

[inner mountain]

@whole quarry yes

at least I'm working with VS Community 2017 since UE4 4.15

or 4.16 (but probably 4.15)

[shell jetty]

I have worked VS 15.4 preview with UE4

[livid haven]

Are you just saying whatever comes to your mind in response to what other people are saying?

[cloud cobalt]

@inner mountain VS 2017 in 4.15 was disabled by default but working, 4.16 had it out of the box IIRC

[inner mountain]

well anyway it's supported in the latest versions 😃

[ionic sedge]

@buoyant mesa Export into Scene was meant to solve this but it's really broken. Still you could give it a try.

[vagrant glen]

didn't there use to be a modding channel

[shell jetty]

@cloud cobalt how 15.3 have worked with UE4 dev for you? as 15.2 was previously stable in VS 2017 version

[cloud cobalt]

It worked well until we moved on with 4.16

[shell jetty]

in VS Preview 15.4 is now in that preview ring

[inner mountain]

does someone training a bot?

or my english skills are too low...

[shell jetty]

@inner mountain are you getting intents and entities?

[rapid monolith]

question: what channel would I need to go to if I would ask about delegates + multiplayer

[sacred crater]

Multiplayer probably

and programming(if you're referring to c++)

[rapid monolith]

Okay! Thank you 😃

[livid haven]

@rapid monolith Delegates would be normal UE4 programming. Particular delegates in some networking code is another story.

[paper kernel]

mp delegates don't exactly behave any differently tho

[livid haven]

No, but how a particular delegate is used may.

IE: When does <some delegate in some class in some MP stuff> get triggered? Does it get triggered if I'm a spectator? Does it trigger before <some function> gets called?

[sacred crater]

He said + so that sounds like they're related, and if it's related then he can post it in multiplayer

[livid haven]

Aye, definitely.

[sacred crater]

if it's not, then yeah he should split it, not just for sake of tidy but the people that can help on the topics are usually in their respective channels

[sharp shadow]

@buoyant mesa there is max plugin for this

[rapid monolith]

Yeahp. delegates used in multiplayer. shall post in multiplayer. thanks!

[buoyant mesa]

@sharp shadow I wish there would be blender solution thought

but ue4 should find solution for this its engine problem not modelling software