obviously someone can just delete it but it's easy to officially complain
#fab
nova scaffold
delicate dove
mp team: rule: cant just blatently copy tutorials
us: hey mp team, someone is posting mp packs 1:1 tutorials
mp team: lalalalala cant hear you
zealous ibex
So....the MP has a text size button (or something like that), that's set to normal by default.....but we can't change it to something else? Or is that just my computer messing me up? ๐ค
fleet garnet
Can someone please check if with this link it says unavailable on my mp page https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/blue-man-vehicleai-plugin
oak thistle
Nope, working fine now.
oak thistle
Ah okay. That's good. I thought maybe they tried to take the guy's copy offline and nuked yours instead ๐
zealous ibex
Or worse....the other guy claimed you (Blue Man) was the one copying ๐
fleet garnet
I would be pissed O__O Thank you for letting me know, need to replace all my links with correct ones ๐คฆ
oak thistle
No worries.
oak thistle
Wtf is Putin doing? ๐
delicate dove
russian dance thingy
oak thistle
I see. Just the location of his right arm, and the face on Trump, made me wonder...
oak thistle
True
robust vector
Is Hitler banned from UE4 marketplace? It wouldn't surprise me. Epic is hardcore into the whole Censorship Nazi thing
Can't have shapes that could be mistaken for nipples despite looking nothing like nipples.
idle arch
1.1.d Products must not be offensive, vulgar, or slanderous toward any person, group, organization, product, or in any way defacing of Epic Games, Unreal, or the Marketplace.
Also, good morning. ๐
robust vector
Yeah, they have that in their guidelines but can't even make sure people's meshes face the X+ axis or are scaled correctly.
idle arch
So I was talking with folks about X+
You've mentioned having to change the orientation to X+ in items that weren't.
We don't make guideline or requirement changes without spending time understanding it, so, they are looking into it.
Understanding is the wrong word
I'll chalk it up to lack of coffee thus far.
robust vector
Well, it USED to be a requirement, unless I'm from a timeline where Nelson Mandela assassinated the guy who wrote the original set of marketplace guidelines.
idle arch
Oh interesting, I'll go back and take a look at older docs.
robust vector
I mean, it was definitely never enforced, but I'm certain it was part of the docs at some iteration, because I would always cite the doc when complaining about the lack of enforcement. Ironbelly's weapons being the major offenders for me.
Of course, now I just write all my systems such that the orientations of held items don't matter.
idle arch
Problem solved then. ๐
robust vector
For me, maybe.
idle arch
Like I said, I brought it up.
idle arch
I appreciate you trying to help keep the Marketplace in a user friendly shape.
robust vector
Been trying for years, but there never seems to be any reciprocation from Epic.
idle arch
We're making improvements.
I can't speak to the past, I can only speak to what I know of now.
robust vector
I'll believe it when I see it.
idle arch
I look forward to the day you do. ๐
robust vector
You're pretty far in the negative from the massive downgrade of the forums
delicate dove
Tim just arrived so I doubt he knows the entire past
robust vector
By you, I mean Epic as a whole.
idle arch
(Also, I'll be leaving to go to a parade soon, so forgive me if I disappear)
delicate dove
Tim is a fresh new breeze hehe
robust vector
We used to have a forum that actually worked, then it got downgraded and is barely functional. Drove most of the users away, killed off our only real means of marketing.
idle arch
I didn't think you were speaking about me directly Blackfang. ๐
I'm married, I could not be further in the negative ๐
delicate dove
ooohh
fleet garnet
Lol
robust vector
We got that new seller portal about the same time, but that's like -100 +5, so you're still at -95 in terms of improvements in my book
idle arch
I get that Blackfang.
The best part of it is we have the opportunity, together, to make both the forums, and the sellers market a better place, but it will take time. It is not going to happen over night.
robust vector
Heard it.
idle arch
Good. ๐
robust vector
I'll hear it again from someone else in ~8 months lol
idle arch
I appreciate your pessimism, it helps drive things forward.
Are you saying I won't be here in 8 months?
frowns
robust vector
That's about how long it seems you guys last
fleet garnet
When forums got changed my sales got hit massively (negatively), it looks like less users are active on them since it changed
idle arch
Well, I look forward to celebrating our 1 year together next March. ๐
robust vector
If you're still here, I'll bust out my best emojis
idle arch
Promise?
robust vector
Yup
idle arch
Its a date.
delicate dove
idle arch
haha
delicate dove
๐
fleet garnet
A legend says that tim is still counting to 8 months every day
robust vector
My sales went from some sales sometimes to no sales ever unless my products are on sale when the forum got nuked, so I'm still pretty bitter about it.
It kind of feels like I'm 1st mate on a boat and the captain won't stop drilling holes in the hull.
idle arch
So one of the first things I am getting into, after GDC, is the forums
robust vector
Yeah, it would be great it they actually worked.
idle arch
In what way? I see people making posts on a regular basis
idle arch
Would you mind doing me a favor Blackfang?
robust vector
Sometimes I'm not authorized to view threads. Often those threads are ones I've started.
north stirrup
Same here
idle arch
put together a list of some of the issues you've seen, and DM them to me
robust vector
Aight. I'll start screencapping them and send them to you.
idle arch
That'd be great.
zealous ibex
Quickly read up on the latest conversations, and I'd just like to say thanks for all of the things you're bringing up/etc. @idle arch ๐
idle arch
Of course @zealous ibex, thank you for being here and a part of the Unreal Community.
One thing you guys will quickly learn about me, is I thrive on feedback.
Positive feedback is good for morale, critical feedback is good for the game (or in this case, engine)
I am an old fart, so I get where ya'll are coming from.
I really should make an intro on the forums..
robust vector
It's really refreshing to have someone engage with us here.
fleet garnet
I don't know what happened, I can't even remember what changed on the forums (forum engine or something like that), a lot of people were complaining about it and my sales went from multiple per day to 0 for days
I'm happy with any changes you guys make, we here would probably like to see some sort of analytics for our marketplace assets, I can now only rely on views on my Youtube videos but that is not an accurate representation
zealous ibex
^ Agreed, especially since the MP employees seem to have left the discord. It's pretty good for fast reporting of smaller matter/real time discussion compared to the forums
idle arch
I get that BlackFang, I know they have been completely underwater
They wanted me to start a few months ago - but moving from Texas to North Carolina takes some time.
Also, we're hiring another CM to join the team too.
I also think the people who live upstairs just purchased a zoo and brought it home.
zealous ibex
๐ And great to hear the CM team is expanding ๐
idle arch
@zealous ibex I am working on that last statement also. ๐
nova scaffold
hmmm, what is the point behind character limit on assets comments?
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/blueprint-battle-tank#comments-top
zealous ibex
Maybe database limitations?
But it's a huge pain ๐
I sometimes have to write 2-3-4 part responses ๐
nova scaffold
can't even put down my disgust in sellers practices properly ๐
idle arch
As long as that disgust is framed in such a way that gives actionable feedback, I agree!
robust vector
The way you have to reply to the original comment instead of other reply's is weird, but its a minor thing for me.
idle arch
It very well could be a limit in our CMS. I can find out
fleet garnet
I see a roast coming
nova scaffold
I could file a DMCA btw
zealous ibex
Did he redistribute the license?
fleet garnet
I'm contacting support today to take those 3 assets down, it is quite obvious that it is just a copy and paste (asset flip)
zealous ibex
If he did you can't really do much about it I guess? (could be mistaken on MIT license terms)
nova scaffold
I don't think he did
robust vector
Yeah, there used to be some kind of statement about uniqueness and not easily reproduced in the submission rules....
zealous ibex
Hm, well since you're the owner of the assets I'd just quickly send the MP an email stating your concern of essentially just copying + ask them to check if it redistributes the MIT license
nova scaffold
I mean, I'm not that salty to buy it so then I can file DMCA to Epic, as it's their platform
zealous ibex
๐
idle arch
I've let some folks know to take a look at it
Oh I missed you saying you're contacting support.
nova scaffold
as I've stated in the comments on assets - according to MIT license, it can be used commercially, it can be used for making assets too, but I don't think it benefits anyone to have such assets on MP
idle arch
I'll let you go through official channels (and my wife is now awake and yelling at me to put on pants (it is Saturday, who wears pants on SATURDAY))
fleet garnet
@nova scaffold I will be sending an email today for the asset which directly copied the whole MP page from me and possible the plugin itself, the creator just copied a tutorial and he's selling that
Do you want me to report the tank asset too?
north stirrup
If I release a plugin under MIT, can it be copied and published to the MP? Or does the license forbid that?
robust vector
I think it used to explicitly say something like "No ๐ฉ you copied from a tutorial in two minutes"
zealous ibex
If they redistribute the license I guess legally it could right?
nova scaffold
@fleet garnet Sure! By bare minimum it should contain original licence file
zealous ibex
But I believe there is a policy in place that prohibits essentially free content from being sold on the MP
2.1.d Content must consist primarily of original work and differ from the result of public tutorials.
Ok thx
zealous ibex
I guess it's a matter of interpretation
nova scaffold
@north stirrup MIT license asks to keep license file with distribution, unless the code was radically changed to a point that it's significantly different
robust vector
Oh, its actually still part of the rules
zealous ibex
Since I guess it isn't original work, but neither is it the result from public tutorials
The MIT license has some great pros, heck, I use 1/2 libraries that are licensed under the MIT license in my marketplace plugins, but someone selling stuff without any real modification does suck ๐ฆ
north stirrup
@nova scaffold But you could resell it, as long as you leave the license file?
zealous ibex
Which is why I still haven't licensed some of my github projects ๐
nova scaffold
@north stirrup yes
north stirrup
Good to know
zealous ibex
But I guess the MIT license is probably still best for most UE4 content
Since GPL & such are essentially prohibited, and most people will be wanting to use work in their full games, which they may want to sell without open sourcing it themselves
nova scaffold
there is MIT with attribution
zealous ibex
That reminds me....I should really update one of my old plugins ๐ค
Really? I should look into that ๐ค
nova scaffold
I was planning on setting it but it can create problems for folks who get publisher at some point
zealous ibex
Yeah....changing licenses seems like a pretty difficult matter ๐ค
robust vector
Oh, btw. St. Patrick's Day Sale. Special Deals on Select Black Fang Technologies Products All Day!
nova scaffold
- I'm not planning on going around and policing it's usage
robust vector
๐
zealous ibex
Cool @robust vector ๐
robust vector
I'm not even Irish, but I'm really good at this holiday. Already hungover from Drunk Souls with the gf last night.
If you start hungover its extra credit.
nova scaffold
sadly, gamedev doesn't look like an industry that is ready to embrace open-source
there are higher chances of someone just reselling your stuff instead of getting more commiters
north stirrup
Godot is getting pretty big no?
nova scaffold
at this point, it's about 3 commiters vs 10 offenders ๐
zealous ibex
๐ฆ
robust vector
I'm too dumb to get Git to work correctly most of the time, so that might contribute lol
zealous ibex
I have like 1 open source plugin right now, and a few other free projects, but not had that many issues ๐ฆ
zealous ibex
I have 0 on pretty much all of my projects ๐
north stirrup
zealous ibex
But quite a few stars on some of them.....oh well ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
But tbh I don't do that many PRs myself, so I shouldn't complain.....I should get on to that some time though ๐ค
robust vector
I got like 3 plugins I need to finish because people are actually coming to me asking if they can buy them yet...
Really need to get on with the bug hunts.
zealous ibex
I've had that for some of my products too....though increasingly less since the forum "update"
That may quite well being due to search bringing up more unrelated results/pretty much hiding things as a whole
robust vector
Yeah, I get more responses through my piddly YouTube channel now than I do from the forum
zealous ibex
๐
north stirrup
I still have a comment every few days on the forums
zealous ibex
YouTube doesn't notify me about comments anymore though....so RIP ๐ค
north stirrup
Guess I'm lucky
zealous ibex
Nice
north stirrup
There's a thing called notifications settings @zealous ibex ๐
zealous ibex
Even if I could manually reenable them, I get way too many unrelated comments ๐
fleet garnet
O_O
zealous ibex
Setting at 819 subs now ๐ค
robust vector
Could be worth checking out, but there's also a thing called 'YouTube has been committed to making horrible obtuse nonsense decisions about their features for the last year or two' ๐
zealous ibex
Most of it general computer related matters though, and it isn't only my channel....but we pretty much had to stop due to having way too many other things
robust vector
I basically don't have time to upload anything besides preview vids for assets for now
fleet garnet
I'm at 200 too and youtube disabled ads on my videos, channels have to have over 1k subs to be able to have ads
now I won't get my $35 ๐ญ
zealous ibex
Same, and creating preview vids kills me ๐
robust vector
127 subs.
zealous ibex
Yeah, that sucks ๐ฆ
north stirrup
lol, never enabled ads
zealous ibex
The thing that is the worst about this though, is that in my experience YouTube prefers monitized videos
robust vector
This one I double dipped and showed a marketplace character while bug hunting in a future marketplace plugin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZClv0bCOYco
zealous ibex
Which I cannot confirm or be sure of, and does make sense it it is the case, but that is something that sucks ๐ฆ
north stirrup
I only use YT for the free hosting
fleet garnet
also whenever I go on Youtube for the last few days I'm getting a coffee ad every 20 seconds (not making this up) and it is impossible to watch anything
north stirrup
Not for visibility
robust vector
They definitely factor monetization into their search results and discoverability.
north stirrup
Kinda normal, as they're loosing money when you watch an unmonetized video
zealous ibex
I agree, but that's the main thing I "hate" about the monitization being disabled....but I guess the underlying idea of the requirements kind of makes sense
sinful kelp
So... How long do file updates usually take on epics side?
robust vector
I submitted one on the 14th that hasn't been processed yet.
zealous ibex
๐ฆ
For plugins it tends to take about 1-2 days in my (more recent) experience, but during these major engine updates it can take (way) longer, which kind of makes sense as Epic must be overloaded with the number of updates they need to process
Last time I believe some had to wait almost a month before their update went live, I wasn't that fast submitting my updates due to other reasons back then and think I had to wait a good 2-3 weeks ๐ฆ
delicate dove
keep in mind, gdc is gonna start and people are traveling/trainjamming etc so things will be a bit on the backburner for next week or two
zealous ibex
Anyway, I hope that your updates get processed before your assets go on sale ๐ Also, if you haven't yet, I'd recommend adding a quick comment to your assets telling your (potential) customers that you have submitted your update and you hope Epic will process it soon ๐
And yeah - Epic really is quite bussy
I guess Epic probably wanted to release 4.19 for GDC right? Not really had plugins updates during the last GDC if I recall correctly (due to not having any plugins for sale ๐)
nova scaffold
@north stirrup Godot would be a good example of things going right. But when it comes to smaller stuff it gets weird. Especially something that is shipped with the game.
We need more larger studios that have middleware, going open-source
north stirrup
Yep
But I think we're heading in the right way
With major engines going source available
stuck arch
Hi
nova scaffold
Admittedly, I used a video tutorial series to help create the tracks. Did NOT however, know you were the original creator and you give it away for free on GitHub, though that would've been a hell of a lot quicker to do (and provides more features e.g. working menu system, gear changing, multiple types of vehicle, etc.) I have submitted a different project but will take some time for it to update though as Marketplace team don't work weekends and they take a fair amount of time to review things
from https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/blueprint-battle-tank#comments-top
like you need to have some amazing skills to copy a level from just video tutorial 1 to 1
supple moon
nova scaffold
Tanks are hot now I guess ๐
candid rivet
lmao i can't believe he just lifted the mp description too smh
fleet garnet
I wouldn't have noticed if he didn't copy each word of my description
I'm not sure if I'm mad about it, it is quite funny
nova scaffold
Shame
oak thistle
It is indeed funny, though also kind of pathetic.
I think the time to be mad would be if Epic opt to do nothing about it...
fleet garnet
^^ I believe they will do at least something
robust vector
I get this sometimes when I try to reply to a post.
@idle arch
Actually, that one is happening consistently for me now.
robust vector
My sale thread got a whopping 21 views.
sullen lion
Well I finally did it, I've submitted a thing for review.
zealous ibex
Congratulations @sullen lion ๐
idle arch
Grats @sullen lion
robust vector
Man, the performance of 4.19 is so bad it chugs on the create project screen.
zealous ibex
๐ฆ Yeah, performance hasn't been too great for me either....though that may have been related to remoting into a Windows computer ๐ค
north stirrup
๐คฆ
robust vector
Suggests I use Nvidia driver version 361.75
Well, at least that's the only place I can find something about what drivers it wants.
I'm on win 10, not linux, and I basically can't stop it from using a more recent version.
zealous ibex
Graphics card driver doesn't seem too related to even something as simple as the create project screen, but I could be wrong
robust vector
The only response I could get on Answerhub when I complained about the performance of 4.18/4.19 was that my graphics driver was wrong
robust vector
Are we allowed to include c++ with non-plugin stuff?
I have some ideas for an upcoming character pack and it would be hella-cool if I could just include a custom BP function library
At least 4.19 isn't crashing on me yet.
robust vector
When you realize that Epic's third person template animations don't have the IK bones animated....
๐ข
No wonder so many animation sellers bungle the IK bones
waxen jay
i remember there was some kind of problem with the skeletal, saw an example when someone imported it into 3d modeling software and some of the bones would be displaced
but they were fixed with anims i think. tried looking for that video again but that channel removed everything :<
my point is that even by epic standarts that skeleton has a lot of issues and was done half assed, not sure if thats true or not, dont care much about it since i have my own
uhh found the exact problem i was talking about
https://community.gamedev.tv/t/dislocated-mannequin-bone-on-any-animation-from-generated-skeleton/9572
robust vector
Interesting, but no excuse for not animating the IK bones. Gonna have to make a complaint thread.
waxen jay
wait, forum still has active users? ๐
north stirrup
๐ข
robust vector
Well, me and maybe 10 other people lol
There's an idea here... https://imgur.com/a/6Bbki
robust vector
Endless practical applications https://imgur.com/ihrzNr6
sullen lion
... a weapon to surpass metal gear?
robust vector
Finally man will walk on his knuckles
wicked pebble
Is there any reason the compatible engine versions aren't showing in launcher?
elfin plinth
it's kinda funny tho
I mean, the situation on marketplace where you can't submit your free blueprint project to marketplace
but they still let third parties to sell that same free content on your behalf
I really wonder what these people reviewing marketplace assets ACTUALLY do
like, we all know the review times are absurdly long
but they can't even do simple google searches or forum searches for already existing content ?
modern perch
Only the other day I was googling something, and two results came up - the first was a Youtube tutorial dated beginning of a month, and the second was a Marketplace asset dated the end of that month xD
I sadly can't recall what I was looking for
crisp rapids
Lesson learned, stop putting out free stuff.
idle arch
Good morning everyone.
0lento, our teams work rather tirelessly to get through the review process. We're also working on a lot of ways to improve it.
We're making improvements, and we will continue to do that - we need feedback, so keep it coming.
nova scaffold
@crisp rapids to be fair, good CG and VFX tutorials are under paywall on various platforms already. Maybe we should be moving in the same direction.
There are quite a few companies, like Gnomon Workshop, that live just of that. Similar platform for UE4 or some partnership with existing platforms would be nice.
nova scaffold
maybe one could do tutorials as marketplace assets?
oak thistle
Would that even stop these people, I wonder ๐
To be fair, I'm not sure it's really feasible for MP reviewers to set off on a search for every asset to see if there are similar tutorials etc out there.
Not so easy to decide what is "too similar" either.
idle arch
sly wyvern
๐ฑ
rustic belfry
OMG!!!!
Wow I honestly didnt think they would release this much - amazing contribution to the community
nova scaffold
@oak thistle it creates legal grounds for issuing a DMCA strike as at point where you purchase an asset/tutorial it pretty clearly states that you can't use it in other assets
only finished products
if some other platform is used then you can add even more strict EULA
overall, with enough pressure someone will have to do a good check on what an asset is based on
Currently if someone used stolen content and where selling on MP, it just silently dissappears. As MP gets larger, I don't think that would be a good legal exit strategy. People will start asking for refunds and compensations for work that need to be done to remove pirated products from their games.
oak thistle
That's a good point. Although you're still left with a difficult situation when it comes to tutorials - namely, distinguishing between copying, and use of the tutorial to recreate the result.
nova scaffold
The part where someone does the low effort job of just copying tutorial content is already covered by MP submission rules. When someone copies content from your paid tutorial it becomes just pure piracy.
so you are not waving a "community guideline" but a criminal law
I don't think someone would by "VFX blood fountain" pack if right next to it you can see a Turorial on how to do it.
but this idea is a bit contrived overall I agree
just saying that selling tutorials might be not such a bad thing overall, plenty of open-source software is done like that
oak thistle
When someone copies content from your paid tutorial it becomes just pure piracy.
I guess my point was, if someone takes a tutorial, follows it, creates the result, then takes that result (blueprint, or whatever) and decides, "I'm gonna sell this on the MP", then technically that can't be piracy.
It's lame, but I don't think it can be considered plagiarism.
nova scaffold
Correct. but that still would fall under sumbission guidelines
look at this thing:
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/blueprint-battle-tank
he even copied those white and green boxes from the test level ๐
oak thistle
Yep. But those submission guidelines are not easy to enforce is all I was originally saying.
Because it takes a fair bit of searching and comparing, and then a judgement call.
nova scaffold
Agree, but it's possible, matter of resource
lean venture
@shadow inlet Is it possible to have any information on whether Epic is, at least, considering releasing some of Paragon's C++/BP? Personally, I'm interested in anything and everything related to its multiplayer framework, from lobbies to beacons, to the mechanism they use to scale server up and down and anything else. One of your colleagues described some high level, yet very interesting stuff a while ago, over here: https://forums.unrealengine.com/community/general-discussion/84523-few-questions-about-paragon-lobby-and-game?p=770471#post770471
Thanks in advance!
oak thistle
Yup. Resources I think would be far better spent on making a decent MP search and filtering system, so people can weed out the junk themselves. But this has already been said a million times.
blazing harbor
I think selling tutorials would slow down the submission process. the reviewer would have to go through the tutorial many times to verify it and it would just end up with everyone that bought it requesting a finished version of the tutorial in project form, which in the end is just a "code asset". I think many should if they dont already google for tutorials for the code asset they're considering before making the decision to buy anyway. I think the best method .. or at least a start is for the review process to expand on restrictions around the complexity of the asset before allowing it to be sold. most things that take 8 part tutorials to do are usually complex. Selling a "ready to go elevator" that you can do in 2 mins. Shouldnt really be allowed.
nova scaffold
@oak thistle
Well, I don't agree that low effort submissions should be just left alone. I think it's necessary to fight it to create a culture where 95% of submitted work is worth time looking into it. CG and VFX community have such culture, it didn't appear out of nowhere.
@blazing harbor agree
just for illustration:
https://vimeo.com/195580569
about 350$ full package on gumroad
modern perch
oh, that looks like a pretty cool tutorial though
nova scaffold
as far s I know it is
oak thistle
Root problem there, I think, is that the actual market in this case is 90% low experience hobbyists. By my personal criteria and from what I've seen, somewhere in the 90%+ region of BP and code plugins on MP are what I would consider "no way would I use this". But clearly, most people don't feel the same way.
nova scaffold
it's actually pretty cheap compared to some other Houdini workflows
modern perch
it's $250 for the whole set of tutorials
oak thistle
So if people are generally happy buying this stuff, and Epic are making money selling it, saying "yeah but it's objectively poor" is not really meaningful, or a reason for them to change their approach.
modern perch
individual chapters available separately
nova scaffold
@oak thistle I see what you mean. This is a part where I don't think that existence of such MPs is improving anything all that much tbh, except revenue for the owner of MP and few of the creators of content.
but it's the trend, so not much to do about it
the core issue can be in a completely different place - like illusion of accessibility of technology and tools to make games
blazing harbor
@oak thistle it is a reason to change their approach.. code assets can be very lucrative but if the mp becomes known for low quality code assets than people will stop buying them altogether. and the good quality ones will stop selling. and even if they dont it makes it near impossible for people to weed through and find the good quality ones.
as mentioned, the newer people dont really know what quality would be from reading desc as they're learning. the epic review team is there to protect them from wasting their money. if they're ok with majority being unhappy for the short term cash grab it will lower the rep of the mp overall which hurts long term sales of quality assets. then quality coders will stop developing assets for the mp altogether
nova scaffold
could drop all QA at all, make it like steam
cause that could bring a higher revenue long term as MP is practically a monopoly
oak thistle
I agree completely it discourages people from submitting quality content. But I'm not sure it's actually the case that most buyers are unhappy with what they're getting. I think most buyers are people who expect to pay little, and often won't even get far enough in their projects to realize that what they bought doesn't scale/isn't flexible/performant, etc.
One of the very first plugins on the MP requires users to actually modify plugin source code directly in order to use one of the core advertised features. To me that is just utterly insane bad design.
Yet it has extremely positive reviews.
rustic belfry
Please dont - If you make the MP like Steam it would discourage a lot of us from spending money on it. Right now I feel buyers are paying a premium for content with a guaranteee that there is a high quality standard. If you take that away, prices would have to drop significantly for me to take the chance
blazing harbor
i dont like talking about other assets negatively but ive noticed some of the earliest assets have amazing reviews and because of that they still sell amazingly today. but ive seen some code in some of them and its a good mess. so people seem to buy things that they think are good based on the ratings but its not really accurate. but they also rate it high to fall in line because they dont know better probably
@rustic belfry yeah I stopped "supporting new games" on steam a long time ago. i buy nothing but major games or something my friends have been playing and vetted. its a cesspool there. and even worse if you're an indie dev trying to breakout.. its so saturated its basically the same odds of getting discovered as an actor as it is getting a game to get more some exposure
rustic belfry
Yup - same here. I dont even bother unless the game has been curated by a trusted source
Back when I was very new to Unreal I bought some very simple BP assets from the MP and was very happy because they were super easy to use and support was amazing (for a $10 asset I got email responses from the dev within the hour)
Now I would never buy those assets as I can make them myself, but they were super useful back then
nova scaffold
@oak thistle the thing is, if potential customer base are people who have very little experience to judge quality then as a result it would require more work from the content creator. Especially when it comes to code plugins. There would be a point where it won't be profitable anymore. I had this experience from other platforms.
To sell well, you really better just have a "single button click" solution that does very little.
Like selling a single shader as is.
Imagine someone will roll-out a complex AI plugin that you need to study for few month and be versed in subject?
oak thistle
Yeah, I already came to the conclusion that it's just not worth the effort to create well designed, flexible code systems for MP. Given customers expectations of paying very little, but getting support.
But I'm not convinced there is a solution to that. I think it's just a result of the makeup of the market.
nova scaffold
yeap, so maybe we have a wrong impression of what MP is suppose to be?
rustic belfry
You guys make me want to cry...My first ever submission was a feature-complete template yet I couldnt price is much higher than other assets because of this expectation
wooden falcon
๐ฆ
oak thistle
Well, I guess it's whatever Epic decide makes them most money ;)
I;m only really guessing based on experience, obviously EPic provide us with zero useful data on the marketplace.
rustic belfry
And now my second MP projects is "a complex AI system" ๐ฉ
oak thistle
@rustic belfry "You guys make me want to cry"
What are you referring to?
Just my pessimism? ๐
rustic belfry
This was my first MP asset - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yG6os3L4ds
nova scaffold
@rustic belfry "your mileage may wary" - you might be lucky and it will be fine. Just don't bet on it.
rustic belfry
Its basically a full game template with AI, menus, save system, level system, loading screens, utility BPs, etc
oak thistle
Looks like a whole lot of work went into it. I never saw it before tbh, which demonstrates one obvious problem. Even with the curation, there is still almost no exposure.
rustic belfry
Yeah it took me over 200 hours of working part-time on it last year. Granted I was learning as well, but still a LOT of work :/
And yes, exposure is a huge problem - lets hope that survey gets us tags, better search etc
blazing harbor
looks cool. i think full games are the riskiest types to do though. good for learning for newbies if the code is accessible. but full games mean you have to build on it or change it drastically to become something other than what it is.. experienced people could do it without help, but theyd probably just want to do it from scratch so they know the code better. which means you'll run the risk of having inexperienced people needing help with every minor tweak. since its a full game there's a lot of places to tweak
rustic belfry
Yup - Its obvious now why a lot of MP creators have maybe 1 or 2 full templates and then decide to do simpler stuff
nova scaffold
imho the whole issue is at different level - publishing your game. As long as its as easy as it is right now, we will see all kind of low effort practices. This is something that doesn't exist in other related industries anymore - CG/VFX/Visualization
rustic belfry
Supporting it is tough
nova scaffold
you could do it differently, use MP as a promotion platform for your skills and gain most of revenue from custom work
like you have an AI toolbox, sell some templates made with it but focus on people hiring you to make template specific to them
this filters out great amount of people who are not willing to pay for work fairly and your actual sales of asset won't matter anymore
I bet plenty of folks here already working like that ๐
rustic belfry
Hmm, actually that sounds like a good strategy
Basically build a portfolio to showcase what you can do
Thanks @nova scaffold for lifting my spirits lol
nova scaffold
It can still bring you passive income. People who already worked with you, can grab a copy of your fresh asset just to support you, or to have it "for feature" when they know that you do quality work and its possible to hire you to extend it when needed
shadow inlet
@lean venture I donโt believe there are any plans to release the code, but I plan on scheduling streams to cover some of those topics if I can snag those devs.
robust vector
So what you guys are essentially saying is that this new non-lethal Four Loco formula is gross and they should bring back the old stuff...
rustic belfry
@shadow inlet That would be great!
robust vector
Or were you talking about race to the bottom economics and too much crap to sort through...
oak fiber
It's been a race to the bottom since day one
rustic belfry
@nova scaffold Thats probably the best case scenario as I do like working on bigger projects
oak fiber
When you choose not to curate your library and the pile of submissions include a whole lot of shit you're going to get a whole lot of shit in your Marketplace
nova scaffold
@robust vector I mean, look at this:
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/blueprint-battle-tank
it's still there, you still can buy it
copy/paste from a 3 year old project, that is not even made to have any practical usage as its physics in BP
there is barely any added value in it
idle arch
@nova scaffold Our teams are looking at it - like I mentioned last week.
nova scaffold
@idle arch apologies if it looked like a rant. To be clear, main complaint is not that it's still there - legally it can be. But the fact that it got on MP in the first place.
and its not a complaint targeted at MP team - not at all
idle arch
No worries my friend. Just didn't want you to think we forgot about it. ๐
nova scaffold
It would take a significant amount of resources to track down all kind of low effort assets or those that contain stolen content. Perhaps to the point where it's just not feasible anymore. On top of that it wouldn't stop someone else opening an alternative MP with much lax guidelines and process.
So it's a complain at the state of the things overall - we are lacking something that other industries already gained.
@robust vector personally I have a concern that what is going-on on MP, starts to negatively effect people that have nothing to do with it. Like @sudden mason tutorials copy/pasted as asset pack. Are shorter submission cycles worth irritating people who produce educational content for free? If they are, then maybe "payed" tutorials are not a bad thing.
zealous ibex
@nova scaffold
if potential customer base are people who have very little experience to judge quality then as a result it would require more work from the content creator. Especially when it comes to code plugins. There would be a point where it won't be profitable anymore. I had this experience from other platforms.
``` Yeah, this is pretty hard to balance. You need to keep it viable/profitable, cater to both beginning and advanced users and plenty more ๐ But I guess writing good documentation with both a beginner and expert in mind has helped me mitigate a lot of support requests from people who don't understand how something works/etc.Just my experience, but I currently pretty much only get feature request/bug report (pretty rarely though....which I guess may be a good sign?) support "requests", but that may differ for others. One thing that I do find really hard is pricing.....you want to appeal to small devs/beginners, but don't want to make your asset look like it's not much good due to being cheap....and then there's another few factors ๐ค
nova scaffold
@zealous ibex that sounds pretty good! And as far as i know you do code assets. Do you use the same name on MP - want to check if I need some of those goodies you have ๐
zealous ibex
If 'ya think any of them are low quality/could use some improvement please send me a DM and I'll look into it ๐
Also....to other marketplace creators, how have has the update processing been so far? Had anything get updated yet, or are you still waiting?
(The content that needs review; BP assets, as long as they don't require modification, can be updated without review by checking the support checkbox on the latest version I believe)
nova scaffold
Postgres is used plenty as intermediate to other DBs. Do you have something specific there that limits NetDB to postgress only?
Just saying that you might be artificially limiting yourself
zealous ibex
Pretty much everything I'm afraid, it was engineered to work with PostgreSQL, and thus uses the pqxx driver (licensed under BSD). I may add support for others later, but am focusing on finishing other projects first & ironing out any last bugs there may exist that I didn't catch in my own testing if that makes sense
A lot of other database drivers are licensed in such a way that I can't really use them though, mainly MySQL there. Then there is technically MSSQL, but that's covered by another plugin (so is MySQL though), and I really, really, really hate using microsoft products ๐)
nova scaffold
Maybe you could make it such that driver just need to be dropped into the folder
Like with jdbc
Just an idea anyway, I can check tomorrow which work with native Postgres driver. Iโve seen something like a Mongo that used it
zealous ibex
Interesting, anyway, that may be an idea....going to work on adding 2 other features (mainly support for async operations) first, but will deffo look into that some time ๐ Thanks for the suggestion!
fleet garnet
did anyone else not receive a payout this month, I got the report on March 13th but it is still not on my bank account
delicate dove
they transfered all the money to the guy who keeps copying tutorials
zealous ibex
I got a report, but didn't get paid because it was under the payment threshold (๐ข)
north stirrup
How much is that?
zealous ibex
$100 US
north stirrup
Oh
zealous ibex
So that's about $143 in sales (gross)
delicate dove
@fleet garnet I got paid
fleet garnet
I just sent an email to see what's up with that
zealous ibex
Got the right email? I believe finance/payments is another email, but I'm not sure
nvm, it's marketplace-support
fleet garnet
well there is high chance I used a wrong email address, I hope they will point me to the right one once they read it
ah ok then
zealous ibex
Yeah, well hope you get paid soon ๐
fleet garnet
I hope so too ๐
zealous ibex
You'd think there wouldn't be any issues if they take 45 days ๐
delicate dove
one time they send my money to the wrong account hehe
zealous ibex
Ouch
north stirrup
Really?
delicate dove
it was my old paypal acc
zealous ibex
Also, if you're using a bank account there may be some international transfer hiccup?
#PaypalForLife
delicate dove
that joke cost me about 100 euro
wooden falcon
ouch
zealous ibex
Ouch, couldn't get it back?
lilac heath
are you with HSBC
delicate dove
yea I could, but after they reclaimed the money and send it to my current account dollar vs euro changed so much it resulted in that 100 euro loss
zealous ibex
๐ฆ
lilac heath
they have ringfenced there accounts so you may of been issued an new IBAN
zealous ibex
Yeah, the currency conversion can suck so much ๐
delicate dove
i almost wish we could keep it in a wallet untill conversion is a bit more possitive for me hehe
zealous ibex
I never exchanged it into EUR....but now I'm talking about such a high balance even a 1% difference can be huge ๐
delicate dove
especially last few months its been stupid
delicate dove
#thanksObama
zealous ibex
Oh well, for now it's just great to buy things priced in USD using actual USD, and thus avoid the conversion penalty you may otherwise get
wooden falcon
just wait until Trump puts a tariff on UE4 Marketplace
zealous ibex
๐
wooden falcon
Make Quake Great Again
north stirrup
btw does anyone here knows sellfy?
zealous ibex
Never really used it, but know if it, yeah
Also, you can't sell anything that contains epic content outside of the marketplace or github repo I believe, saw that come by on AH recently
north stirrup
What's "Epic Content"?
wooden falcon
the stuff epic releases for free
zealous ibex
Mainly starter content
wooden falcon
like the paragon stuff they just unloaded
zealous ibex
Yeah, what Necro said
wooden falcon
but yah, starter stuff too
zealous ibex
Yep, that's pretty cool as there's some really cool things in there for creating demo levels....I think
wooden falcon
or at least that's been their stance in the past
zealous ibex
Yeah, I guess we'll have to wait and see ๐ค
delicate dove
well, that might be somewhat an issue because some of those textures seem to be part of a custom license thingy.
if it was a gray area, its even more now hehe
zealous ibex
Interesting
north stirrup
Yep
delicate dove
lol
north stirrup
Really gray ๐
delicate dove
ue4 black marketplace
zealous ibex
But then if it's being redistributed to the same people who can also use the content in the first place.....mind = blown ๐ค
Oh well, I don't plan on creating any real (big) blueprint things in the coming time anyway
#plugin-devForLife
zealous ibex
Though you really do feel it when a new engine version releases......and have enough plugins to essentially double my current collection ๐
nova scaffold
uhhhhhhh, why there is still no button to not remember billing details!?
zealous ibex
There isn't? ๐ฎ
nova scaffold
no
zealous ibex
What about adding them to your Epic Games account under the personal section?
nova scaffold
have to delete it manually everybloodytime
zealous ibex
Or does the billing stuff there not work for the MP?
fleet garnet
the guy who is copying tutorials and Marketplace descriptions removed all his comments so it looks like I and whoever replied to him talk to ourselves
nova scaffold
I got my account hacked already ones, not risking
north stirrup
Shit
zealous ibex
RIP - I know another asset that did that
north stirrup
Really
nova scaffold
@fleet garnet we are just crazy people ๐
zealous ibex
Also, I hate that the marketplace allows 2 assets with the same name
fleet garnet
lol
north stirrup
That's good for me at least
nova scaffold
let's go chat in comment section of someone's asset ๐
zealous ibex
Like, I own Inventory System, but then there's another Inventory System (with -01 suffixed to it's url) ๐ค
wooden falcon
lol
fleet garnet
imagine just casually chatting in someones comments
north stirrup
Why not PayPal @nova scaffold ? Fees are too high?
nova scaffold
@north stirrup will have to use it - I don't like their fees and don't want to link account
the banks that I use here, all have double autorization
so even if card is stollen, you can't buy anything
zealous ibex
Nice
nova scaffold
until I approve
north stirrup
In France it's a bit more complicated
In theory there's that too
But sometimes no
zealous ibex
Pretty sure half the population where I live doesn't even have a credit card ๐ค
north stirrup
Like when I bought minecraft = no confirmation
@zealous ibex How do they pay?
Apple Pay?
zealous ibex
If only we had that
real dust
Debit cards
zealous ibex
I really, really, really, really....., really want that
zealous ibex
But yeah, mainly debit cards & a local system called iDeal
real dust
iDeal is really just the system connecting the debit cards to the rest of the world, though
north stirrup
debit cards aren't that different to credit cards though?
zealous ibex
It's mainly the Netherlands, and a few international sites (but not too many)
real dust
Except you can't use debit cards where you can use credit cards
So seventy percent of online stores (at the very least) is unusable for us
north stirrup
Ah?
zealous ibex
I guess they are kind of the same, but we have a second form of security in the form of a PIN-code here (4-6 (I think) digit number you need for every transaction0
north stirrup
Interesting
north stirrup
Ahh
zealous ibex
Most don't ^ It poses a pretty big security risk
north stirrup
I have a credit card, but it's actually a debit one, no credit.
Works everywhere though
zealous ibex
Cool
real dust
But yeah, our debit system is way safer than the standard CC system
Shame that no other country uses it ๐
Because that means it sucks for us
real dust
xD
oak thistle
Can anyone tell me what the latest policy is regards using some stuff from a purchased MP art asset in a demo project for your own blueprint/plugin pack?
zealous ibex
Not allowed unless it's packaged I think
zealous ibex
For official answers check with Epic, but you can't create derivative work nor redistribute any MP content to my knowledge
Whereas a packaged project, as long as it's clear it isn't included in your pack, I guess technically qualifies as a game right? Thus allowing you to use it in it, heck, you could even sell that demo (I think)
oak thistle
Yup. I'm just thinking small elements of a pack, not throwing the whole thing in. But totally makes sense that there just be a blanket ban on doing that.
zealous ibex
Not that that would make any sense ๐
Yeah, well I guess if you contact the author you may be able to work something out directly? Not sure though
oak thistle
Yeah, doing it as a packaged demo outside of the actual pack content makes a lot more sense.
tiny heron
You can use Epic's sample content but not the IP of another seller, since you are shipping the source to your buyers
oak thistle
But then presumably you can't use screenshots of said demo on MP page?
zealous ibex
There was something about that a while back
I believe the ruling was that it was actually allowed, but don't quote me on that
oak thistle
Sure. Makes sense to contact creator in that case anyway.
zealous ibex
Found it....but I don't think you have access to the creator's hub right? (for anyone who has: https://forums.unrealengine.com/unreal-engine/marketplace/creators-hub/116065-using-other-marketplace-products-to-promote-your-marketplace-product-without-permission)
I think I can quote like one line without getting into any trouble
any seller who has purchased the content is allowed to use the assets for display as long as they are not redistributing the assets as per the marketplace user agreement.
``` - (Former ๐ข)Marketplace EmployeeBut giving credit + adding a disclaimer about it not being included is probably the minimum you should do to be fair to the other seller, and in my opinion you should contact the seller too before doing anything....but again, this isn't official
mental cargo
Hello! Is it normal when I'm trying to buy an asset(s) on the Marketplace I'm getting an error saying ''We could not confirm your purchase at this time. Please try again later.''
Anyone know how to fix that? I needed to buy an assets on there.
north stirrup
@idle arch
mental cargo
I tried buying any kind of assets and stuff on the Marketplace. Never works.
north stirrup
You've emailed the support?
mental cargo
No, 2 lazy 2 send email n stuff, I'd rather ask for help in direct, no mail and wait 1years for an answer. If this problem keep happening, I'll find crack/pirated version of the marketplace asset I need.
zealous ibex
That appears to be an issue with the marketplace and/or your account. Or maybe it's payment verification? (though I believe the bulk of that took something like 30 minutes)
Please, please DO NOT
mental cargo
Do not do what
zealous ibex
find a crack/pirated version
We, as sellers unfortunately can't control the marketplace....and the people who can aren't (always) available in this unofficial discord
mental cargo
Well, if I have no choice what could I do? Unless I can contact the creator and pay him via donation or something.
nova scaffold
"no choice"
zealous ibex
So I'm afraid sending an email, or possibly making a forum post (I'd recommend sending an email) is probably the best option, as that way you can get in touch with the people who can actually change this stuff
lilac heath
you do have a choice you have vocaly stated you would steal if you cant purchase it ?? dude
mental cargo
Oh ok. I mean, I have an other option, trying to contact the creator and pay him via donation and he send me the asset zip
zealous ibex
Like, I get that this is super annoying, but please don't pirate stuff ^^
mental cargo
Sure thing
zealous ibex
I guess you could, but contacting the marketplace really is the best option
mental cargo
I didn't said I will, it was just an idea and ''if''
zealous ibex
That way it's easier to get updates, etc.
I guess it may be beneficial for the seller though as they only have paypal/transaction fees instead of the cut Epic takes ๐ But anyway, the marketplace team has been pretty speedy with getting back to tickets lately
north stirrup
Freaking 30% ๐
nova scaffold
yeah, and potential for someone to use stolen card
north stirrup
Paypal?
nova scaffold
don't they refund the same way?
so apparently I've used up all money on Udemy and Uber today ๐
so that stupid message from bank was just confusing
nova scaffold
I'm getting old, need to chill
zealous ibex
Thanks for jumping in so fast ๐
idle arch
saw pirate it, frowns.
zealous ibex
Anyway, thanks for reminding me I should do a quick check of pirate sites for my content....haven't done that in a while ๐ค
idle arch
Hey @mental cargo, is there a specific asset this happens when trying to buy? Or is it all of them?
mental cargo
All of them
Currently trying other browser and disabling adbloc, nothing is fixing the issue
adblock*
mental cargo
Did Epic game changed paypal method?
now we seriously need a credit card to buy assets?
I'm a kid, I don't have a credit card, in the golden age I used to buy assets with no credit cards/bank account on my paypal
now when I'm trying to buy via paypal it dare to ask my bank/card account
idle arch
We've never accepted Paypal wallet or balance. You need to use credit/debit card to make purchases from the Marketplace.
mental cargo
it never was the case month ago
I bought assets with paypal wallet
so... they fixed the issue...
so now I guess I can't buy anything anymore...
idle arch
Since the day Marketplace launched, we've always been Credit card or Debit card.
mental cargo
I'm a kid, I don't have a bank account or shit. That issue need to be gone, cause of that security problem I can't buy shit on a lot of site, and now its the UE4 marketplace. What's next? Youtube and site where I publish my games asking for a bank account to send revenue? I'll kill myself
If any of you is a Epic dev or moderator that can change the site, fix that issue, with that bank needed shit for buying, I bet less people will buy shit
north stirrup
lol
real dust
Well that escalated quickly
mental cargo
get good
sullen lion
Well I'm sure adsense and itch are paying for your Ferrari
idle arch
Appreciate the feedback Glitch.
real dust
Well, looking at your attitude while you're in a professional environment, it kind of is a bit funny
idle arch
However, for many reasons we won't be making changes to the site.
real dust
I fully agree with what you're saying
mental cargo
Well, kid or not, can't I buy assets and make games?
real dust
I'd like more payment methods
zealous ibex
@mental cargo I believe https://privacy.com/ allows you to use paypal as a credit/debit card
nova scaffold
@real dust there might be good reason why wallet is not used ๐
real dust
But the way you're putting it is interesting z3
zealous ibex
You may want to look into that to solve your payment issues if PayPal isn't working for you ๐
mental cargo
Lemme see.. '_'
zealous ibex
(Not affiliated, but I am pretty sure that's a pretty reputable service)
sullen lion
Saying stuff like you'll kill yourself or coming to tell people you're just going to pirate what you can't buy isn't productive. I know how frustrating it can be trying to do stuff before you're of age - just focus on practicing your craft.
By the time business is easier you'll have a stronger first offering.
mental cargo
But if I can't get money to make myself happy I could kill myself. And I didn't straight up came here to say I'll pirate.
real dust
I mean, I'd certainly not mind hearing the reasons they're exclusively sticking with CC
sullen lion
Otherwise, see if an adult will let you use their card
zealous ibex
Actually....I'm not 100% sure if you can use PayPal with Privacy, could have read that wrong somewhere
idle arch
We've never accepted it.
north stirrup
PayPal refunds are kinda tricky
mental cargo
kk.
north stirrup
18
tiny heron
north stirrup
Else paypal can take down your account
zealous ibex
18 I believe, so you'd have to get it through your parents
mental cargo
I can just change my age even if I was younger
north stirrup
lol
sullen lion
sure
mental cargo
its like youtube
sullen lion
enjoy randomly getting locked
north stirrup
Else paypal can take down your account
mental cargo
what do you mean by locked? locked from where?
sullen lion
Funds frozen and such
zealous ibex
Wait....so just to get this all straight....you have enough money in your PayPal account, and don't have any way to pay other than PayPal right?
Just to make sure I don't misunderstand the issue
mental cargo
I have lots of money on my paypal. Not gonna tell how many. I don't have other way to buy other than paypal.
sullen lion
I'm just kinda curious, can't you have a bank account at some point before 18?
Feel like you can
Feel like I actually did
mental cargo
Prob 15 or 17, but you need some shit or shit that Idk and Idc about
north stirrup
Yep you can
sullen lion
Well hey if you don't care about possible avenues to make shit easier I'm just gonna go do something productive
like putting linux on my laptop
north stirrup
Most of the time CC is locked though, so no online payments or things like that
mental cargo
I'm a nolife person without school and use pc only, I don't want to go outside and ask for shit and I'm not even at school anymore, they'll prob ask me to sign at school for me to get a bank account and shit.
Its a lot of shit I need to do for get a bank account and buy one asset on UE4 marketplace
2much4me ;_;
sullen lion
omg this reaction convo
north stirrup
๐
sullen lion
got more distro reactions?
sullen lion
I thought about arch
zealous ibex
So.....I guess there probably won't really be an official way to get the asset, so (please, no one get mad at me) I'd reccomend you contact the author and see if you can arrange something that way (again, I am NOT affiliated with Epic)
mental cargo
so... rip me I guess... I guess I'll never get my asset...
idle arch
Glitch, I am sorry you're having issues, for security reasons we cannot do that. We did just release a lot of assets for Paragon that might be helpful for you. Beyond that, I would recommend you continue to use UE4 and get better.
Always move towards getting better.
zealous ibex
^
mental cargo
I got it I got it, I'll try to use a fake bank account
idle arch
I don't recommend that
I am not sure if you are aware Glitch, anyone whose name is listed in yellow here works for Epic.
mental cargo
I know, its clearly added ''Epic staff''
idle arch
Just making sure bud!
mental cargo
Ok.
idle arch
I am curious, what asset are you trying to buy?
mental cargo
I needed that for my in game level editor, I was thinking of adding a system like that to spawn object inside the level.
idle arch
I sense a challenge! If you're unable to make that purchase, research a way to do by a different means!
Unreal Engine is extremely powerful and, something like that is not done by just one method. I bet you could make something yourself.
mental cargo
I tried adding something like spawn selected actor to the mouse location, never worked, same thing for spawn actor in front of us or where we want, when I make a variable for a selected actor it never works and never want to set the variable to the selected actor.
idle arch
Have you looked at our forums?
mental cargo
Not yet
idle arch
I am sure someone there can assist you with specific questions.
There is a whole world of support at your fingertips my friend.
mental cargo
I've already tried posting a few post, no one ever answered them, and I'm 2 lazy 2 check the site every hours and see if anyone answered, than discord is a direct chat
I'm just gonna try making a system myself since I can't buy that
idle arch
Awesome! Let me know how it turns out.
zealous ibex
Cool ๐ Also, we have #blueprint in here too if you want blueprint help in discord ๐ Also, good luck creating it ๐
mental cargo
Sure thing, but it sure sounds hard, thanks btw for the help and ideas. I'll try getting a bank account maybe when I'll grew up, at least I'm proud I bought a few assets before that bug ends.
north stirrup
You're really an awesome guy @idle arch ๐
idle arch
You're most welcome Glitch! I really look forward to seeing it. ๐
Trust me, I am married, and when I wana buy stuff, I can't because my wife rules my life.
I threw up commas in that last statement.
mental cargo
Thanks so much for being nice. Most of the time I ask for help or something it always it short tell me to get good and f off and do it myself.
๐
idle arch
No worries my man. It is all in the approach and reaction.
idle arch
Take care buddy!
delicate dove
just a mandatory warning @mental cargo dont mention pirating again.
mental cargo
๐
delicate dove
we're good for now, but just dont please ๐
mental cargo
I. Got. It.
delicate dove
allrighty
mental cargo
lol
nova scaffold
@idle arch @shadow inlet thank you for addressing the issue with MP!
shadow inlet
Of course - thanks for bringing it to our attention. ๐
robust vector
Hmmm... my custom animation node does not work how the node I copied from does....
When I scale a bone, it doesn't affect the child bones, but the modify bone node I copied from does
lone mountain
@BoredEngineer#0100 Did they fix X+ ?
lone mountain
oh wtf
when did this FREE section come up
Guess around Paragon
@shadow inlet @idle arch
Doesn't that belong up in Epic Showcase?
Or are those like, black sheep?
robust vector
Sometimes maybe 43, but mostly 45
nova scaffold
@VictorBurgos#0001 that was regarding different issue - low effort assets made from tutorials and free projects
wooden falcon
holy crap this thing is terrifying: https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/monster-telluropod
zealous ibex
๐ G'Afternoon @idle arch
wooden falcon
hello!
next patrol
anyone else get a sudden upswing in sales after the release of the Paragon assets?
delicate dove
havent noticed it, but suddenly people might realize how to get to the marketplace XD
next patrol
that's a good point! Might not be due to new users as I first assumed
lunar fractal
12 million in assets should attract some new people ๐
next patrol
yep, probably a good mix. Love how these generous offers from Epic benefits sellers. Though it might of course be a double edged sword for people selling characters and environments
nova scaffold
good and free opportunity to study it and make your own work better
robust vector
Submitting another character today
Curious to see how the paragon stuff is going to affect my sales...
fleet garnet
mine are going as usual, few days nothing and then a few in the same day
delicate dove
wooden falcon
uh, hmm
crisp rapids
I like the lens flare effects. Are they included?
robust vector
I don't want to be mean, but it looks like something off of TurboSquid
I remember back when my blueprint packs were denied due to my placeholder assets lacking quality...
robust vector
yup, sales are dead
vague wren
@robust vector how do you make those characters ?
i really want to learn the character pipeline
zealous ibex
That's pretty rad ๐ฎ โค
robust vector
@vague wren I always start with a highpoly sculpt. Most of my characters are made in collaboration with my sculptor friend, but a couple I did the sculpts myself. For this, Zbrush is the industry standard. Masterpiece VR and Oculus Medium are good options if you have a VR hmd already. Hard surface or geometric pieces are often best modeled in something like 3ds Max or Maya and then imported and merged into the sculpt. 3D Coat also has sculpting tools but I haven't learned them yet. I hear other people mention Mudbox but I haven't tried it.
vague wren
Blender ?
zealous ibex
Blender = Everything ๐
robust vector
You can pretty much susbtitute Blend for any step that uses Max or Maya, but I haven't heard of sculpting with it
Does blender have sculpting tools?
zealous ibex
Think you can though....heard some people talk about that a while back
Looks like you can - I don't think it's quite as easy-to-use as ZBrush though....but I'm not an artist ๐ค
I like Blender's scripting capabilities though ๐
robust vector
Cool. That looks pretty viable as a substitute for ZBrush, if not preferable in some ways
I can't comprehend ZBrush's interface at all even after using it for years
So, when you're happy with the sculpt, step two is to create a lowpoly model via retopologization. This an area 3d Coat excels in, but ZBrush also has good tools for. You could even do it in modelling software like 3ds Max, Maya, or Blender, if they can handle importing your highpoly (Max often becomes too slow to be usable for me, depends on the character). The direction and placement of edge loops is important to how your character will eventually animate. Look up some examples of good topology that highlight important edgeloops. Don't listen to anybody that tells you not to use tris. Tris are desirable in many circumstances, and the model is going to be all tris on import into a game engine.
Generally, if you have nice 'flow' to your polygons, that's a good thing.
Next up, you gotta UV the mesh. I always do it in Max because I haven't learned 3d Coats tools for it yet. Maya and Blender are also good choices. I generally don't use mirrored or overlapping UVs. Those aspects just depend...
Then you gotta bake your textures from the highpoly to the lowpoly. I do these in 3ds Max, Knald, and XNormal. XNormal is probably the best, but also the slowest. It is free though. You export from your modelling software and import both meshes into the baker. You'll get your normal, AO, and whatever else you need for your texturing here.
robust vector
You need to keep in mind how the lowpoly's vertex normals interact with the normal baking and the normal map texture being applied.
wooden falcon
I love blender for just modeling, though
robust vector
Knald discards your vertex normals and calculates averaged normals, as if the whole mesh is one smoothing group, so you need to do the same to your mesh for it to match.
If you have multiple smoothing groups, you need to either split the edges manually before baking, or use an export option that does it automatically.
Point is, for things to look right, the vertex normals in engine need to match the ones used during baking.
You can also bake the vertex colors into a texture if you did polypaint on the sculpt. This can be the start of your base color texture, or some masks, or whatever is useful to your particular character.
Then you feed all these bakes into whatever software you use for texturing, like DDO or Substance. You'll probably also do some manual stuff in Photoshop. I like to use 3D Coat to apply stickers like hazard stripes.
wicked pebble
Is i t normal to not receive a reply from marketplace team for over three months?
robust vector
Normal but undesirable. You should make a forum thread and try to get somebody to respond to you there. Or you could @idle arch
wicked pebble
It's over a few things, one of them being a refund. I've written them twice or thrice, and still no reply. :\
robust vector
Next up, you gotta rig your mesh to a skeleton so it can be animated. This is pretty much Max or Blender territory. If its humanoid, copy Epic's skeleton and use that. Otherwise, you need to make your own. When you use Epic's skeleton, you may have to tweak the proportions to fit your character. NEVER SCALE A BONE EVER. It doesn't work. You'll want to translate bones in parent space and rotate them in local space to match the pose of your mesh. Don't change the way the clavicle bones are rotated relative to the spine_03 bone. Just scoot the upper arm bones in or out. Weight the character to the skeleton, and then your ready to export and import everything into Unreal.
When you get it in UE4, set up your material and some test animations and see if everything looks right. If it doesn't, go back and fix it. And that's pretty much it.
wicked pebble
Oh talking to another.
wooden falcon
did you ever get the auto reply saying your ticket was created?
is Blender viable for rigging in ue4 BlackFang?
robust vector
I've never used Blender, but I think I've seen people use it with some kind of plugin
idle arch
I want to make a mixed drink joke with Blender, but I won't.
Mostly, because I am sure they have been done before
wooden falcon
robust vector
I need to make a grocery trip. My drink recipes last night were more substitutions than intended ingredients and I regret it.
How am I supposed to write good plugins sober
Wrapped up submitting this character though https://imgur.com/a/w2p5O
leaden root
Only problem I see with that would be you couldnt redistribute the sdk
sullen lion
shouldn't have to distribute the sdk to do that
robust vector
I love how a jab at Steam Direct and asset flipping has become a real product idea.
Anybody see those weird videos that were running rampant on youtube a while ago? Like 'Incredible Hulk Injects Live Rats Into Elsa's Balloon Womb" or "Spiderman is Pregant with Joker," cause those were like looking upon Cthulhu's face.
But, aside from the disturbing content, they were also basically made by bots pulling from stock models and animations.
They throws this stuff up on YT and collect ad rev from toddlers with iPads for parents just letting all the garbage autoplay.
So what if I make a plugin that just scans your content folder and builds a game by slotting your assets into some simple template, then fills out your Steam Direct form for you? Brilliant.
lone mountain
Yeah, it was a suggestion for someone to do
Would make sending builds up to Steam super easy
Probably can tap into Automation
Frontend
Oh snap
Close but no
Yeah, definitely some easy money there if someone created a plugin
Quality of Life, Ease of Use is something I know a lot of folks look for.
delicate dove
niagara module selling on the marketplace feels a bit.. odd.
something thats being used so close to the core, maybe more so than material functions for materials.. I dont see me buying this because I'd constantly need to tell clients to buy this from the mp, and I couldnt use it when selling stuff on the mp.
but, thats just my pov. Im sure others would appreciate them.
lean venture
@shadow inlet Sorry to bother, but I'm having issues with the notorious support team. I sent an update for my UWorks plugin last Saturday and and an e-mail to the support address yesterday (regarding the update) and all I got are automated bot replies. I don't expect an update to be processed during non-working days, but so far all updates were processed in 1 working day (maybe occasionally 2, due to time zone differences). Again, thanks in advance!
oak thistle
@delicate dove I wouldn't expect modules to be sold directly. I'd assume that you would still sell higher level particle systems, but the more modular design of Niagara would make it easy for people to take modules contained in that system and use them in their own.
delicate dove
they talked about it during question-time in the niagara talk
oak thistle
Yep, but I didn't get the impression that it meant selling them directly .
delicate dove
im sure people will go all math-up in some modules and sell just those..
oak thistle
It was a pretty offhand response, I wouldn't read too much into their intentions from it.
delicate dove
but just like a lot of mat functions, it means people will just recreate them and not having to tell client to buy the pack, or able to sell as a unique on the mp
well, they do it with mat functions as well
so i doubt it wont happen with niagara modules
modern perch
@lean venture - it's GDC, lots of people are away this week
delicate dove
rule 45 of the interwebs. if there is not, there will be :p
oak thistle
Not really following what you're suggesting should/shouldn't be done?
"it means people will just recreate them"
What is 'it'?
delicate dove
the more interesting modules.
lean venture
Respectfully to them, if GDC was limited to yesterday's presentations, it barely explains why a handful of people were away.
oak thistle
But how can they recreate without buying them? Sorry, I'm missing something ๐
lean venture
If their part in GDC*
delicate dove
- buy niagara modules (just like mat functions now)
- find interesting ones.
- make stuff you either sell to clients or want to sell on mp.
- recreate the modules (or functions)
- no need to have client buy the package, no cross bs thingy for marketplace.
oak thistle
When you say 'recreate', do you mean in the negative sense of copying someone else's work?
delicate dove
nahh just recreating.
its not like meshes, models, textures, or even final effects.
if you just copy the innerts or move the nodes a bit nobody can tell if it was taken from a package or self created
oak thistle
Sure. I'm just failing to get what you're arguing for/against tbh. Sorry, maybe not entirely woken up yet today ๐
delicate dove
so I wonder how feasible it is to sell packs like that, or how much value it really gives.
I personally think its redundant for a freelancer/mp seller like me as I cant expect clients to buy the pack, nor can I use em in a pack I intend to sell myself.
So I would either need to recreate them, eyeball it, or change a parameter name and nobody would be the wiser.
but on the other side, other people might find it more valueble.
oak thistle
Ah okay. Yeah well I mean, presumably the MP on the whole is aimed mostly at people who will be using stuff in a shipped project, rather than people who are working with their own clients.
Not being able to use something in a pack you sell yourself goes for every kind of content on the MP anyway, right? So I guess your point is that selling purely modules is a bit too 'low level' for the MP.
delicate dove
ive had clients point me at mp packs and asked me to recreate them because they didnt feel like buying it.
In most cases my hourly rate is more expensive than those mp packs.
im not sure if im trying to make a point though hehe @oak thistle more just thinking/talking out loud
oak thistle
Okay well that's just weird. I mean, obviously contracting someone to do something is going to be more expensive than existing off the shelf stuff.
Good for you though, I guess ๐
delicate dove
what if you find something so interesting you use it everywhere, and you wanna sell that content.
common courtesy would be contacting the original creator I guess.
oak thistle
Yeah. Obviously it's really difficult to know where to draw the line with this kind of thing. I mean, wherever you draw it, it's going to be kind of arbitrary.
Though I don't really see that there is much difference between selling modules, and selling systems containing modules, as far as that question goes.
delicate dove
there are people just selling mat functions, so there will be people just selling modules.
I think in those cases its more targeted on being used than just being part of the end result.
oak thistle
Yep. But I guess in that case, you really are selling an idea/algorithm, rather than an effect. So I don't think anyone doing that could have a complaint if someone bought it, learnt what it was doing, and resold something doing the same thing.
zealous ibex
@lean venture
@Amanda Bott Sorry to bother, but I'm having issues with the notorious support team. I sent an update for my UWorks plugin last Saturday and and an e-mail to the support address yesterday (regarding the update) and all I got are automated bot replies. I don't expect an update to be processed during non-working days, but so far all updates were processed in 1 working day (maybe occasionally 2, due to time zone differences). Again, thanks in advance!
``` Mine haven't been updated either ๐ฆ I think I sent the first updates like last week Thursday, so it could be a while ๐ฆYep, it's been a week ๐ค I understand it's currently GDC/etc. time....but I hope this won't take 3-4 weeks like it did with the last major engine update (ie 4.17 -> 4.18)
lean venture
Good to know! Thanks! โ
idle arch
@lean venture Amanda is at GDC so may be delayed in responding.
@lean venture But to answer your question, our support teams are working hard to get to all of the requests.
When it comes to engine releases times may get inflated a bit because of the mass influx of submissions that tends to accompany it.
lean venture
Right... I appreciate you taking the time to read and reply, but this exchange could be slightly more mutually respectful if you didn't write blank corporate replies and I crawled back to my cave remembering the 30% MP cut isn't the first and it won't be the last money I waste on goods or services that are worth far less than the advertised value.
oak thistle
Harsh. Not sure what else you expected him to say. Tim has been super friendly since showing up here, but he'll go the same way as previous Epic staff in no time if he gets slated just for giving responses like the above.
delicate dove
lean venture
I didn't expect anyone to say anything, but if someone is going to say something, I'd just rather it be something useful.
"Out support teams are working hard" is something I've been hearing since I first downloaded UE4. It's equal to "out UT team is small and that's why development is slow" and "we, the UT team, rely heavily on community feedback". Again, I appreciate any Epic staff who takes the time to read and write on this channel, but copy-pasting their internal PR manual simply isn't useful to anyone, them included, whom just end up wasting their time writing blank sentences. Nothing personal against any of them.
lone mountain
rofl
๐ฟ
Yeah, this is why Epic left Discord awhile back also
Chill out man, you aren't the only one with the problem but you don't see them barking up the new guy's tree that hard ๐ญ
I mean...
I could be like.. sooo @lean venture what's up with that OSS UWorks everyday... but I don't ๐
lean venture
Last summer I remember reading about Epic training new staff for the review teams. I haven't read a single word on that topic since. Nobody knows where those people disappeared (if they even existed) or how the company's investment in their training turned out.
Compare that kind of behavior and "transparency" with what they just did with Paragon: they screwed up, they admitted it and they started sharing their work with the community in order to gain something back, no matter how small, in returns on investment disguised as engine marketing and royalties from whatever projects may be sold with the assets.
They turned something bad into something good and it's not the first time they have the spirit and integrity to do that. However, for some unknown reason, the Marketplace and support departments seem to be totally immune to that kind of behavior.
I'm done with this. I didn't bark anyone's hand. Some people here are sensitive enough to bluntness that they twist it so hard it ends up looking like some personal fight.
lone mountain
Trust me, if I'm saying something, it's bad
I'm usually the one getting told otherwise
I don't think anyone cares about "bluntness" or "truth" or "opinion"
If you haven't noticed also, their team dynamics changed
And I'm pretty sure got downsized (but no hard numbers to prove)
My opinion on everything related to Epic these days = If it doesn't make them more money via Fortnite(BR), you're screwed
robust vector
I think not everyone on the team handles code reviews. I submitted art asset updates last week and they processed in a few days, so perhaps there is a bottleneck on the number of plugin reviewers at hand.
lone mountain
They have dedicated people for plugins
and BP
Plugins take a lot longer because I am assuming they have to make sure no one is sneaking in some shady stuff into other developer's projects, so they have to check every line. But who knows.
robust vector
They do, they've told me that before
It would be a pretty big disaster if they let somebody sneak malware in to peoples PCs like that
idle arch
Yooooooooooooooooo
Lets take some deep breaths for a sec. Vlad you're completely right.
lean venture
@lone mountain Accidentally missed the mention above ^^
Any time you want to check on OSUWorks, you're free to read the announcements in my Discord. Every step I take and change I make are transparent and I inform people on why I do them, which should be enough to make them realize I'm always going in the direction of OSU (again, assuming they spend time reading; for some reason, you told me twice already that you thought I had let the plugin die).
Also, this has been on my product's page for ages:
The price will remain unchanged until the OnlineSubsystemUWorks module is complete.```
I don't see any resemblance between my behavior and Epic's support team, but if you do, it's your right. We'll just agree to disagree.I did give you company text. But, I don't have anything to give you. I can't say that our teams have 5010203 other tickets, because, frankly I don't know.
lean venture
I know, I understand. Just felt like a waste of text. Again, nothing personal
idle arch
Our teams are literally dealing with thousands of submissions. It is 100% purely the truth, they are working so hard to get to everyone, and I know it sucks being on the other end of it
If I had to pick between dealing with a waste of text or making you feel like I was not listening, I'll take wasted text my man
sullen lion
@robust vector Is it a bad thing that not everyone reviews every type of content?
lean venture
I think almost anyone at anytime can understand there's a lot of work involved. The only thing is, from a certain point forward, some (like me) are going to wonder "Hey, this is a company of engineers, after all, right? Engineers are the very definition of problem-solvers. They're also sitting on a fortune that's hard to imagine. So how is it possible nobody can come with a solution in such a long time interval?".
Fair enough ^^ ty again
idle arch
So to that point
Solutions take time to plan, prepare, develop, test, execute, retest, etc etc.
We are working on ways to make these processes easier and more time friendly (As I understand it, it used to be a MUCH longer turn around). But those take time.
robust vector
@sullen lion Its a necessity to have coders review code, but most people should be able to go down the checklist for art assets.
idle arch
So while I know asking for patience is probably not an easy ask, I'll instead ask for understanding as we work towards a common goal of making the Marketplace better.
That said, these kinds of items of feedback are critical to our mutual success.
(And now I eat my soup!)
(I'm still here, but now with soup)
lean venture
It was a much longer turn around, yes. But from my point of view, I experienced that with a then-new submission, not with updates to it. Now I have no idea why that changed because I haven't found any announcement anywhere the like of "Hey, we fucked up with Paragon... Here's our solution to mitigate that mistake!"
There may be improvements (even the current portal), but I don't see a roadmap anywhere and I never read anything solid about whatever solutions you plan/prepare/develop etc. and/or how far ahead you are with them.
lone mountain
That's a good point though. A Public Roadmap would probably relieve a lot of people's minds a bit
lean venture
Recently, as a MP seller, I just completed 2 surveys. It's unlikely I will ever find out what those lead to, as a whole, given the current attitude and level of transparency.
lone mountain
At the very least, they can see and/or look forward to changes that are on the map (like the Unreal Roadmap)
robust vector
Until we see otherwise, we have to assume those surveys were simply for temporary pacification.
idle arch
I get why you would feel that way. If you can take my word for it, they were very much NOT pacification.
real dust
We've been taking a lot of words, though sadly not much came in return
There's a reason none of my stuff is on the marketplace yet
It's great that there's someone talking to us now, though
lean venture
I feel that way too. And yet I believe you that it's not pacification because, after all, there was some investment of time and energy poured into making and sending those surveys.
Since we've reached the perception subject, here's mine: I know Epic would only hire well-trained people so I assume whoever's working on bits and pieces of the Marketplace, ranging from the web interface to the support tickets, are just as well-trained people. Yet it still feels like they're not doing anything (or just the bare minimum). It feels like instead of building something cool and going to their friends and family to say "Yo, let me show you a 5-star MP. I HELPED BUILT IT!" they look at memes all day just to clock their time at their desks.
You can say it's not happening, I won't argue, I understand your position as a bumper between the company and the community, but I've seen plenty of workplaces where this happens, which is why it's a very plausible scenario in my head.
real dust
And thatis what it feels like. It definitely doesn't feel like that thirty percent is going to things useful for us as sellers, and by extension Epic.
lean venture
As a reminder, the GDC stream started with Tim announcing the UE4 community had grown from 3M+ to 5M+ members who installed UE on their machines. That's an insane growth by any metric. Letting all that momentum fade because there's no space for those new users to grow and develop, is just plain wrong.
idle arch
(I was trying to figure out what I said at the start of GDC)
I realize you're not talking about me Tim. There is another.
wooden falcon
lol
idle arch
sudo root password1
sullen lion
<hmm tim... they must mean me>
wooden falcon
article named "Epic Games' Tim Sweeney on creating believable digital humans"
sometimes I don't believe Tim is a believable human, but just a Shodan like AI :/
zealous ibex
@idle arch Cool to hear there may be plans for a roadmap ๐ That should at least give us an idea of what the MP is working on ๐
zealous ibex
๐
Inb4 needing to develop a roadmap for the development of the roadmap as for the development of a roadmap ๐
sullen lion
Just have a ticker to track progress towards the current iteration of the roadmap to the roadmap.
Roadmap #1423167, 26% complete
zealous ibex
๐
pseudo sundial
hurray more chargebacks... ๐
robust vector
I had somebody ask me about twist bones so I'm going ahead and updating all my characters to have the twist bones already set up in their animation blueprints
I figure plugin updates are going to be real slow regardless so I'll just do this first.
wooden falcon
yah, I had one too Toxin
sucks to log into your sales report, see something for the new day, get excited...then realize it's a -1
robust vector
I guess I've been lucky in regards to refunds lately
Or maybe I just can't see them
wooden falcon
just wait ๐
robust vector
The forum signs me out every few seconds and its really annoying.
I can barely get it to stay signed in long enough to post a thread.
What a buggy mess
Not authorized to edit my own posts
robust vector
Yeah, just about every time I make a thread or try to edit something.
idle arch
Okay - I'm going to ask some dumb questions okay?
- Can you try it in a fresh, browser - IE no plugins, addon/extensions?
- Have you tried it in different browsers?
idle arch
Any luck today @robust vector?
wooden falcon
so how is everyone this fine morning?
idle arch
Fantastic, and you?
wooden falcon
great! I didn't have to get up at 3AM to do oracle upgrades this morning as scheduled, so I feel pretty rested ๐
wooden falcon
this pack looks pretty good: https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/fantasy-and-medieval-artchitecture-kit
and I'm not that much of a fan of medieval fantasy stuff
Plus, naming a pub "Hold the Door" is just funny ๐
and this shot from this tree pack is just beautiful: https://cdn1.epicgames.com/ue/product/Screenshot/Street Trees Vol 1screenshot01-1920x1080-791fda8913f12654a44ea6ba5603cefb.jpg
silver moat
Hi @idle arch , experiencing same log out issues as BlackFang
If writing post takes a bit longer, can't submit the post because user is logged out.
If a post is made and a bit later want to edit it, can't do because it's logged out.
Also sometimes when trying to go in Creator's Hub, not authorized because it's logged out.
It's been like this for me since the forum upgrade.
ebon leaf
@zealous ibex Hey dude you there?
idle arch
Okay, let me look at some settings in the back end of the forums when I get back and see if it ssomething there - if not, I'll do some further research.