What specifically is so appaling about DENT here?
#fab
sullen lion
If you should be mad at anybody, be mad at the marketplace - but I wouldn't even use DENT as a point in that conversation. Pick some other asset that's "worse".
And uh. You can find them.
robust vector
I think "Hows that not just multicast?" may be the new dank meme
sudden mason
With this logic, why would anyone buy vfx? They are all made in cascade.
sullen lion
How's this pack different than just displaying a texture on screen lol
robust vector
"Hows that not just cascade?" lol
sullen lion
I think that's a legitimate questions @l uos
sudden mason
You just make a material and then emit it as particles.
sullen lion
yeah man how the hell is he not banned
robust vector
hows that not just cars
robust vector
Think we've made the point yet? lol
robust vector
Maybe he's sore about that time he voted for Harvey Dent as district attorney
sullen lion
I'm gonna imagine he didn't want to buy the pack and spent half a day getting something to work which ended up being multicast-based
and is 
af
robust vector
Of course, you literally can't "just multicast" unless you are doing things exclusively server-side
sullen lion
lol ya but if we wanna condescendingly rip into his argument at a technical level explaining what you'd have to do we should do so in #multiplayer
robust vector
Only if he offered to pay for tutoring
sullen lion
I know someone who should tutor him it'd be a good meme. To be clear dude is competent but it'd be hilarious.
ebon leaf
So
@robust vector @sullen lion so how does it differ?
My question was left unanswered
My project works fine just multicasting the changes I need
sullen lion
So
sullen lion
so how does DENT differ from other far more low effort packs?
ebon leaf
No
sullen lion
By your own logic
sullen lion
You're now calling your logic a fallacy?
ebon leaf
Answer the question
How does DENT differ from just a simple multicast function
Is it different?
And if it is, HOW?
sullen lion
Answer the question
how does DENT differ from other far more low effort packs?
Is it different?
And if it is, HOW?
sullen lion
Not gonna buy the pack to discect it for you
ebon leaf
Man I don't want you to
I thought your whole point of arguing was because you had some insight into the product
You shouldn't even be arguing if you have no insight into it.
Nor do you know what the product is.
So be quiet.
sullen lion
Nah but I can make an educated guess into what it isn't
Dis why
Like, why specifically should this pack be removed
If this is a scam, there are many more worse scams
Answer the question
ebon leaf
okay
So because I said that
you don't know how to answer questions
you have lost all rational thought capabilities
and default to primitive thinking
sullen lion
Also requiring insight into the situation would exclude the marketplace seller from participating in this conversation, as he doesn't know what you did.
Post source or shut up
I can nitpick "fallacies" as well
sullen lion
Yes, father.
ebon leaf
turn that shit off
somber shuttle
No point you two going back and fourth unless you actually have a point.
sullen lion
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sullen lion
He's told you some differences already
so either that's good enough or it isn't
I don't have an argument, my opponent is emotional lol
robust vector
I think we all just need to remember the most important thing
I have low low prices from now until the 31st, but don't wait to buy or you might forget and miss the sale. https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/profile/Black Fang Technologies
"How are those not just marketplace products"
lilac heath
@dboom i will try to explain the difference
On the base level dent offers replication between Lan play and dedicated servers.
After that,
Normal Destructiblels will react on fracture with a single particle and effect.
Dent allows for distinction between point and AOE damage allowing for different sounds and particles to be used for each.
Damaging debris.
Normal DM create a non interactive phisics object (debris) which cannot be replicated.
Dent - allows the creation of replicated debris that can cause damage.
Examples of on fracture events
Disable lighting
AOE damage.
And examples of how to create basic structurea that can be entered and exited.
And also how level based activity such can cause a destructible to fracture based on interaction with a level object.
And there is an example of both point and radial damage weapons that are replicated , providing the best way to damage both standard DM and supporting DM correctly.
I hope this answers your questions, and puts you at ease on the validity of DENT.
ebon leaf
@lilac heath Do you plan to add damage decals, or vertex colors to adjacent polygons? Or does it already have this?
lilac heath
No decals and no vertex colors ( I played other vertex but as you can see my 3d and texturing skills are week) I was planning on adding better models but every 3d artist I approached took several months to produce a non original items, so was unable to use them on market place.
As far as the decals if they were to be created by the destructiblels the frame work would be in place use a custom fracture event to spawn them. But I have a new 3d artist and hopfully he will be able to produce a more pleasant looking environment and can look in to more the cosmetic side of the system.
sullen lion
@lilac heath you've yet to fully answer @dboom's questions sufficiently. How exactly, in concrete terms, does your scam differ from their specific implementation? Until you can answer that, please turn off your primitive emotions and exit the conversation. 
The beauty of the public forum is that while everyone can see you put someone on the spot, everyone can also join the conversation.
lilac heath
@sullen lion I have listed the difference 5 posts before. I hope this is in depth enough. Also this was stated yesterday after being queried.
sullen lion
lol my bad, you missed my joke there.
sullen lion
BTW you can quickly summarize your pack as
Its already got replication taken care of, and adds some convienience functionality to the default engine solution. In addition it pre-processes damage events to tailor the results instead of treating AoE and point the same. Also chunks from DENT can do damage, whereas in UE4 they cannot
Unless I'm mistaken.
Also design question for ya
lilac heath
Boom that's a good way of putting it
sullen lion
If the chunks are non-determinalistic, how do you reconcile the fact that they can do damage? Sometimes you take damage from nothing hitting you, other times you don't take damage from something hitting you.
lilac heath
What I done is take the inverted direction the point of impact and make the DM spawn projectiles with a similar physics configuration as the debris.
There are multiple configurations for the damage , interaction with other objects and random projectiles/debris to allow for the illusion of actual debris
It took me about 2 months to get it right
sullen lion
So even if you don't get hit by a chunk you know you're in the debris cloud?
lilac heath
Yes as.you have the ability to control the paricals from your DM you would have small or no actual debris spawning from the DM but the Damage debris would be used instead.
sullen lion
Pity I'm not working on a game where that's relevant I might give it a try even though I can just do a simple multicast myself
lilac heath
:)
modern perch
@robust vector - I only need the basics for a first person shooter, so was hoping there'd be one pack with the lot, since it kind of makes sense
stuck rune
😍 this marketplace sale , burning a hole in the pocket, but hopefully much time will be saved
zealous ibex
Great to hear you're enjoying the sale @ebon leafoungjr#1593 😃
zealous ibex
Wow, 10/10 discord. Sorry for the incorrect tag ^^
delicate dove
also purchased a few things.
solemn laurel
Hey everyone! I just wanted to pop in and wish you all a happy holidays! This is my first "vacation" (read: site closed for the week so I can't work XD), is spending it entirely running through tutorials the correct way to spend one of those? XD
robust vector
@solemn laurel Nah. Most correct way is to build a model kit and let your brain defragment, but tutorials are a close second
solemn laurel
One of the tuts I have is for blender modeling, it's one of my main weaknesses, but I chose to go with the C++ one as I want to build my language knowledgebase 😄
crisp rapids
I thought Blender was made in C.
solemn laurel
Nah I mean Cpp in UE4, sorry, two different tuts 😄
I picked up a bunch during the Udemy sale a few weeks ago and finally have time to start digging in
hallow wagon
Anything in the marketplace that I should 100% either buy or atleast take a look at?
fleet garnet
@ZombieBear#7805 Did you previously work for Marketplace (Adam) or I messed up something completely?
discord doesn't want to cooperate with me
pine solstice
anyone here use the Advanced Fur Shader?
pine solstice
is it worth getting?
rain spruce
Merry Christmas everyone! The new update for The Art of Combat, now dubbed The AI Designers' Update, has been submitted to Epic, and should be live in a few days.
In this update, you get a redesigned AI system now with:
- New Modular Behavior Trees
- i-frame implementation (invincibility-frames like those in the Dark Souls, and Nioh series)
- Backstabs (optional - you can enable it if you want the mechanic)
- 24 Original Musical Scores, Songs and Compositions (they may serve as placeholders for your actual SFX if you like)
Happy Holidays.
hollow tundra
How broken does the market place need to be, and has anyone able to download assets on windows?
delicate dove
works for me
hollow tundra
You click on the Download button on the web page and it takes you to your proflie?
Also, is this on linux?
delicate dove
i only purchase trough web, download trough launcher. (win)
hollow tundra
Oh, ok.
north stirrup
Can a seller see the names of the buyers?
ebon leaf
Nope. Not currently anyways
Only way for us to verify a buyer is to get the purchase info from the buyer, email epic and wait for epic to confirm it.
ebon leaf
It is very frustrating froma sellers point of view. Every other marketplace I've sold via always gives sellers that info but shrugs
north stirrup
Is it against the marketplace rules to sell on both the marketplace and on your own website?
ebon leaf
Not at all.
ebon leaf
Np 😃
fleet garnet
oh man how much I love when people come out with some imaginary issues just to get a refund out of me
real dust
Such as?
solemn laurel
@fleet garnet yeah, I was on the Marketplace team up until about July or so, my contract ended. I'm QC over at Red Storm now 😃
split iron
I'm using your vehicle physics @fleet garnet there is no good reason for that one at least
Unless pebkac counts
I was asked to make a car that drives around at 1200kph for the level designer to traverse the 50km level, was impressed to find I could just chuck a Collison box with some mass near the front to stop it wheeling over backwards lol
delicate dove
https://78.media.tumblr.com/b2fcf3f69865ad07ae9eb56199ef7cf0/tumblr_p1l70f29zu1uq5bluo1_1280.jpg hehe
split iron
Why bother hiding his name if you're not gonna hide his asset
wooden falcon
wow, that was a lot of drama up there
happy holidays!
thanks for the retweet @zealous ibex !
crisp rapids
Someone who hasn't slept for a month
lunar fractal
Toxic people being toxic, not worth any effort or attention imo
Really like the casual response of @delicate dove
prime willow
Wow that guy sounds nuts. I’m sure his marketplace page won’t be down-voted 🤭 oops did I say that?
delicate dove
thats not my stuff, was an ignant post
delicate dove
< buys low poly cave pack for some blocking out, doesnt use mat instances and have parameters named "none" ffs
and lod's only kicking in at this distance
https://i.gyazo.com/ff4ada241a5b41a17d0da7f013ecdd1c.jpg
split iron
That's the general quality of most MP assets. My understanding was that epic assess and carry out some QC but guess they stopped
Majority of bp arrests have shit in illogical places
Using terrible methods
Solid chance you're buying something that'll cost you time unless it's widely regarded such as dungeon architect and so forth
delicate dove
while I dont really need any of the aforementioned for blocking out, i just cant understand not trying to make sure the buyer has the most optimal thing possible.
I do understand that over time a seller also improve themselves, but price should def. reflect quality and skill.
gets another low poly pack
this looks much better for blocking out, and only 5 euro
and for that kinda money I cant complain about much
rotund schooner
you love low poly packs?
delicate dove
not really, but i need some simple stuff for blocking out. no use using high end stuff
which is more expensive
rotund schooner
@delicate dove any low poly particle effects?
delicate dove
not that I know of.
nova scaffold
@delicate dove was it Synty Studio pack? those buildings look like from it
ebon leaf
@delicate dove i might send u some money
for your vfx
coz i dont have a vfx artist lel
so i might use ur stuff temporarily
Enjoy my money
delicate dove
what kind of vfx do you need?
ebon leaf
Ehh... I want to do all different types of stuff... I got an excel sheet on it
Lemme find this
Utility stuff... Super simple, like a blink (this would be done in code) but it would need a particle to be left behind that i could spawn in of something that looks kind of cool.
This one is probably super simple
Different auras, fire balls... lightning, uhhh
Different basic stuff you know?
ebon leaf
sec
this one looks kind of cool tbh
i was probably just going to use it temporarily until i can get a dedicated vfx person
delicate dove
yea that works, not overkill in content, and cheap af atm :p
also, whoever does low poly stuff, not much on low poly rpg-ish interior stuff. gap right thar
:p
ebon leaf
@delicate dove im tryin to think tho
do i buy your stuff... or a dating site subscription
delicate dove
<_< when your technical description is almost 5k characters and ue4 mp only allows 1900
solemn prism
RIP
delicate dove
when you are butchering the description and you cant remove anymore and are 15 char's over <_<
https://i.gyazo.com/58903f94d55513bb1b52f12ed34d2b7c.png
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/02/eye-twitch.gif
spiral kernel
should make a documentation site if your descrip is that long
delicate dove
not the description, but the technical details.
i do have it all documented on the forums & youtube videos about it
crisp rapids
Can you link images in the description?
delicate dove
yea, urls
delicate dove
O_O apparently weapons that look like actual weapons arent allowed on the mp anymore
lunar fractal
... No realistic games anymore?
zealous ibex
@delicate dove Yeah, but I guess that kind of makes sense as they want to avoid patent/trademark issues. Seen the same issues with car (games/models), buildings, and a few other things. I didn't get it at first myself either though 😛
delicate dove
the ones already there are still allowed though
lunar fractal
Ah yes, that makes sense
delicate dove
so they keep a massive monopoly, and nothing new is allowed.
real dust
Then they should just be removing the current ones, too
- If Epic's gonna sell liable assets, they might as well sell all of them
- That's market manipulation
Why is Epic always such a fan of market manipulation?
delicate dove
¯_(ツ)_/¯
zealous ibex
Yeah, that does suck. I guess hope they'll change their mind on that, but if they do that'd suck for the sellers who currently have the stuff, as it was previously allowed 😐
delicate dove
not to mention that they have been allowing much clearer copyright violations:
https://i.gyazo.com/248989bbb495c957dd6904884dad99b4.png
games arent allowed to use the red cross
real dust
Ouch
@zealous ibex Yeah, what if you just spent half a year working on a really awesome weapons pack
And you're just ready to submit
And now this happens
That's even more of a fuckover ;3
Not saying that happened, but ya know
delicate dove
as long as they dont look like the actual guns or their silhouettes it should be fine
real dust
It's a fuckover anyway, so be consistent with it >.>
delicate dove
would still be identical to its silhouette though
rustic siren
as a person not making guns and not affected I don't feel an instant rage within me to complain bout this, but feel kinda sympathetic to those who want to submit their guns now and are not allowed while other guns are being sold 😄
delicate dove
just add a flower on the design that sticks out Xd
rustic siren
I just don't understand what do they stand to gain by enforcing a rule/policy like that while still allowing previous uploaders to continue selling their guns
If some1 want's to sue epic for copyright violation, they won't look at new submissions they will look at existing guns
delicate dove
I think they are just making up rules, and dont even talk to legal on what can and what cant be done
rustic siren
I mean, if legal concerns is their reason,. this does not fix anything
delicate dove
ikr
rustic siren
its like buying condoms when your wife is 6months pregnant, I mean what's the point
delicate dove
hahaha
rustic siren
you'll piss of your wife for sure
real dust
Yeah
That's my line of thought as well
THat's why I said, either take down the current ones, too, or just let everyone sell their guns 😛
I'd almost go tag marketplace people
😛
delicate dove
guess we'll have to wait untill they get back around 2nd of jan to see whats up with that
harsh coral
i sympathize with the ones who bought such assets..
cause they have no legal right to use them
it was pointed out a couple of times already but they needed 1y+ to take action
real dust
And they're still selling the ones on there already
harsh coral
.. it's not about the silhouette, you can have a crappy model that's way off but if you label and call it like the real world counterpart you're already in trouble
real dust
That's the ridiculous part
harsh coral
and it's not gun specific.. it's about copyrighted and trademarked stuff
.. they should have suspended sales of those assets and offered a chance for the creators to make a fix
the correct thing would be to then notify everyone who bought such assets and offer a refund or mp credits
wooden falcon
didn't one of the gun manufacturers sue Activision recently over the use of their guns?
harsh coral
can't believe people in the industry are so ignorant and think this legal shit applies only to music, movies and games
dont see anybody submitting batman to the mp, cuz they know they can't... but somehow guns,cars,phones,tvs, and every other product is ok
.. if someone owns something and makes money off it, you better believe you're gonna get sued.. just as a rule of thumb
grim canyon
Well that's pretty annoying. We have had similar issues with humvee but im getting the feeling all the players are spending a bit more attention on video games
And tbh it's often not even the manufacturer but legal services that offer to collect money the manufacturers didn't know they could collect. (Or didn't care to)
harsh coral
it's what they are paid to do
grim canyon
Yes
Or no. Actually. They manufacture a settlement then they get paid
Humvee didn't initiate the process in our case
I'm sure it's something epic just can't be bothered to deal with
Ie not worth the energy to fight
pseudo sundial
it is strange that this is becoming an issue, ironbelly said this when asked if they were allowed to use the AK model: https://forums.unrealengine.com/unreal-engine/marketplace/62885-aaa-quality-assault-rifle-asset-packs-from-ironbelly-studios?p=956098#post956098
delicate dove
I think its more a "today we cant give the correct fucks, we added this non-existing rule"
me and quite a few others helped to set up the guidelines
and nothing there that mentions this
and those guidelines ahvent been updated
so they are making shit up
grim canyon
We were strongly advised by more than one legal entity that the case is valid regardless of makers marks. So even in EAs case it's a risk you decide to take. (They lost a settlement with bell helicopters for example)
But I agree Luos, all or nothing
In or out
delicate dove
if it was a 1:1 replica i'd be totes fine with it, but thats not the case.
grim canyon
All shades of gray I'm afraid
Humvee is saying Activision caused them material damage for example
By being similar. Lol
pseudo sundial
a more public post could always be made like when i was flagged for having "battle royale" in my asset title, the creator should just be aware of possible fallout though lol
grim canyon
If I was epic I'd simply remove all likenesses. (Although that line would be arbitrary as hell)
delicate dove
I do agree you should try to deviate as much as possible from anything that resembles actual gun copyright stuff hehe.
delicate dove
but since there are a gazillion gun makers, good luck making one XD
grim canyon
This is really only an issue for modern military
harsh coral
the biggest no-no is to use the actual names of the product.. you can get pretty close with likeness just dont make it 100% accurate
grim canyon
WW2 games don't get sued for some reason
grim canyon
It's not just the logo and names
Recreation of the likeness was brought up as a key violation
If we took a picture no big deal
But recreating was a no no
harsh coral
yeah, as i said dont re-create it exactly
if it's similar to, inspired by, then it's okay
something like gta does
delicate dove
make barrel longer, nudge the grip a little, add a flower, make nuzzle look like a a clowns mouth. done
harsh coral
you know which car it's supposed to be
delicate dove
im just glad I dont make anything that resembles real life stuff
but if they ever decide to copyright generic anime effects im screwed as a lady duck
harsh coral
if you model by memory and not by reference you should be fine 😄
delicate dove
"looks like an actual brick, declined!"
wooden falcon
lol
and that's how the MP becomes filled with https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/little-yellow-duck
I'm actually very curious as to how well that pack does
watch Epic release another breakdown of the best selling categories, and it's: 5. music 4. materials 3. blueprints 2. environment 1. The Duck
harsh coral
turbosquid did a partnership with Ford so people can sell Ford branded stuff.. didnt look into it to see how it actually works
wooden falcon
how's everyones' holiday sale going?
delicate dove
my cyber monday sale generated more money in one day than all of this together
pseudo sundial
good for me, i just feel bad for the people who purchased on the 18th, literally right before the sale lol
ebon leaf
Been about the same as cybermonday for me roughly. So no complaints
pseudo sundial
i'm currently at about 22% increase from cyber monday
wooden falcon
mine's been rather meh...only about a sale or two a day
the surprise for me has been that my mat packs have sold nothing, and my bone and rock packs are selling (albeit, poorly)...usually it's the other way around...well, least I got a nice 5 star rating out of it 😃
delicate dove
i also purchased about 250 euro worth of content.
harsh coral
bone pack is actually good.. but it's a bit niche
wooden falcon
hmm...interesting idea
harsh coral
- a low poly version
grim canyon
a good modular destroyed construction site pack with vertex painting would go a long way.
wintry pine
Would anyone be interested in a Fallout-esque blueprint hacking system? I'm thinking about making one for the marketplace but I'm not sure if anyone would actually want it
wooden falcon
fallout has a hacking system?
harsh coral
you have find the correct password from the strings in what appears to be a dump of memory, it gives you feedback on how many chars match and you have a couple of tries .. they vary by difficulty on how long the passwords are and how many strings you have in the dump
... i'm sure someone would want this, but hacking minigames are so varied and mostly tied in to the game itself.. don't think it would make much sense.. unless you make a more generic minigame kit
ebon leaf
Yeah I was going to make that system for the marketplace, then thought about it and came to the same conclusion - you'd need more than just one version of hacking in it IMO.
harsh coral
maybe a training course or tutorial on how to approach and make a minigame like that would make more sense
vague wren
hi
wanted to ask something
Epic is getting a problem in opening my maps
i think it is caused because i have been using external zippers like win rar for zipping the file
this time i am gonna use the inbuilt option
can this be the possible cause
pseudo sundial
yeah, when zipping up the project to send to Epic, i use the "Zip Up Project" option under File->Package Project in UE4
ebon leaf
I use 7zip without any issues.
pseudo sundial
i think i've also used winrar, did epic give you an exact error message?
wooden falcon
I always use the builtin zipper in Windows
lone mountain
^ 90% of the time now I do
if not, I use 7zip
And still .zip it
Or sometimes if I want to .7z it
but just easier to use .zip
everyone has an unzipper for .zip
zealous ibex
Never had any real issues with just zipping it into a .zip file using 7zip (on windows)
delicate dove
They are gonna look into the legal stuff of the weapon discussion and prolly give us a more public statement later on
wooden falcon
anyone recommend any good packs on the MP that are on sale?
delicate dove
the sythe low poly stuff for sure
real dust
How much is it atm?
real dust
I'm a bit too broke, though
delicate dove
using it for mockups atm, not sure how itll end up
real dust
Not sure how to use it tbh
lone mountain
Hmm
ANyone know of a 3D Model Ammo Pouch on the marketplace that I may have missed?
vague wren
i gave them a .rar file using winrar
and when they try to open any material or level
there system freezes
so this time i have used the Zip up project option
zealous ibex
What makes you think it's linked to the way you compressed it? I guess using that function won't hard, but it seems quite odd that an issue like this would be induced by compression 🤔
It isn't an issue like a ton of shader instructions and that their system freezes trying to build them/open up the cache? (no clue about this stuff)
vague wren
no
i have checked the file i gave to them earlier
and it was working fine
but not in theirs
i have changed the 8k textures to 1k
as requested byt them
because that is the only thing possible i can do
delicate dove
iunno, they are going to officially look into it early jan.
I did gather that it wasnt an official statement, but sorta is. (not epic official, but marketplace suddenly did make it official?) its a bit of a mess
delicate dove
lead is afk due to delivering an awesome baby. shouldbe back in a few weeks or so as well
gloomy bramble
They know we haven't been happy for months, then they pull this shit? lol
delicate dove
yea iunno anymore.
one half of me is like, let it all slide and just not care anymore.
other half of me still cares a lot about the mp and hopes it all ends up with a high standard place with proper guidelines
gloomy bramble
😢
delicate dove
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XthCAADyuQ4 this seems like some nice quality though
real dust
Devaluating products goddamn quickly
delicate dove
zealous ibex
Interesting idea 🤔
delicate dove
< downloads own cavepack for project.
6gb. jesus whoever made this pack is a dick.
ebon leaf
UE4 Marketplace just charged me $2.2k and set off the fraud alert for my credit card. I go back to the page and have 50 items in my cart. That's a new one.
I have a feeling I might own every single marketplace item right now.
lmao
delicate dove
was this intentional or random?
ebon leaf
Random
I emailed UE4 support after my bank called me. I am sure they will sort it out and cancel the charges.
delicate dove
i think someone else also had a simmiliar issue recently
delicate dove
are you okay with me screencapping this convo and posting it in the sellers portal?
ebon leaf
Sure.
I mainly wanted to alert people here and UE4 staff as well if there is some security breech.
delicate dove
posted it/forwarded to marketplace peeps
zealous ibex
That's some scary stuff 😮
worn oyster
put it in a project and put it on steam 😛
ebon leaf
lol
Too much work and that wouldn't be right. I may be a bandit cat but I ain't no two bit thief!
delicate dove
solemn prism
@delicate dove What are they talking about?
delicate dove
loads talk about removing a lot of weapons from the marketplace that resemble real weapons from manufacturers
gloomy bramble
Probably the single sign on
wintry pine
So I've been making some TVs and monitors and I'm considering making 3-4 more of them and putting it on the marketplace. Any idea if something like this would sell? Would probably list it for ~$5.
These are the ones I made so far
robust vector
@wintry pine is the screen a separate material from the casing? (people will want that)
wooden falcon
the simple way around the red cross copy right is to not use a red cross on a white background
delicate dove
or make it green, or alter the red cross slightly.
wintry pine
No but I can make it separate @robust vector
sudden mason
Do both. No need to bring in extra drawcalls for a monitor that's not turned on.
wintry pine
Would an opacity mask be acceptable rather than 2 materials?
sullen lion
Yeah I'd just do two, I don't see how opacity mask helps unless you mean the grime layer
wintry pine
Mask out the screen so a different texture can be added. I’ll do two materials though
wooden falcon
cool, the featured rotation for january is out: https://forums.unrealengine.com/unreal-engine/marketplace/1405800-upcoming-schedule-for-featured-asset-rotation
robust vector
Wish I had been invited
wooden falcon
maybe they randomly picked, and you'll get on the next go round
delicate dove
I think first round was a test, and will open up to more sellers next round
and so on
marble stream
Hey guys, I want to sell a C++ plugin and i was wondering if can use assets (mainly props) from the marketplace for making my project example. I think that this isn't allowed, right? But what about if i use the Infinite Blade content? Anyone could give me a hand about this, please.
Also, what about the content from the "Learn" tab. Can i use some of those examples for making a project example. Thanks for the answer beforehand!
PD: My plugin won't contain any of those assets, only the project example will.
last mango
@marble stream So long as the Pack doesnt "focus" around the assets you have chosen to use from elsewhere then its fine.
As far as im aware though you cant place in assets that you have bought from the Marketplace.
wooden falcon
welp, time for one more go through of the Holiday Sale, see if there's anything I missed
robust vector
You should probably buy 3 or 4 more copies of WebEZ to be safe
wooden falcon
lol
ebon leaf
There is some stuff I wanna pick up but that $2,000 charge to my card has still gone unanswered so I am scared to. >.<
wooden falcon
wow, that sucks
elfin plinth
heh
wtf is this
"VAT included if applicable"
they don't even report the percentage
I'm pretty sure you HAVE to tell the separate VAT amount if you include it in the price
Epic doesn't do this
but, considering all the other BS their marketplace does, I'm not surprised
elfin plinth
also, VAT would differ from country to another, I tested marketplace page with different webproxies and it always displays the same price within EU country
meaning, if they truly pay the VAT like they should, seller would get smaller cut in countries with hight VAT
elfin plinth
well, I emailed them
solemn laurel
Hey everyone, wanted to pop in and wish everyone a very happy new year. I'm hoping I can start this new year right and get this jump pad prediction right (it's mostly there since there is a node that handles the actual prediction, it's getting meshes to align and for it to account for the player size as opposed to a smaller object that has been...problematic...). This new year is going to be a good year, I'm determined to make it so!
fleet garnet
Happy New Year and may the force be with you 😉
robust vector
@elfin plinth "HAVE" according to who?
elfin plinth
laws
robust vector
Whose?
elfin plinth
you can't just sell to EU countries without stating the VAT amount
robust vector
Epic is a USA based company, and the USA doesn't even have VAT
elfin plinth
not in EU
robust vector
Also, the price shown will be based on the account you log in with, not your IP address
elfin plinth
and it doesn't matter even if they were US company
elfin plinth
well, I don't really want to debate about this
robust vector
If they had brick and mortar stores there might actually be some repercussion to not following local laws, but its the internet. Its just as easy to argue you are using your computer to travel to the US to shop.
elfin plinth
like I said, I'm not going to argue/debate this, your opinion doesn't change the fact that I need that info from epic
robust vector
Did you email the support team about it?
robust vector
You said you emailed 'them'
Was 'them' specifically the marketplace support address, or one of the other addresses?
elfin plinth
so now you are trying to debate if I can email the right place? 😄
unbelievable
yeah, I'm out
robust vector
K.
solemn laurel
Hey @elfin plinth, the MP team should be able to sort it out and my memory is kinda fuzzy, but I think the VAT taxes are dependent upon where you are located, and since there is no localization yet in the marketplace it isn't displayed due to this limitation. They'll definitely be able to get you better sourced information than I can though as I'm not really a numbers and taxes kinda guy XD.
elfin plinth
@solemn laurel yeah, the only issue here is that they state VAT might be charged but they don't specify it, I already emailed the support email about it and asking receipt/invoice with proper VAT details
also, EU sales are handled by Epics Swiss branch
but yeah, I don't really expect or need any answers here, it's up to epic to solve their mess (and yes, VAT is charged into customers country nowadays, it changed around 2015 or so)
crystal tundra
hi
nova scaffold
@robust vector found something for you that isn’t just law text
https://quaderno.io/resources/eu-vat-guide/
To avoid collecting VAT for EU customers, company needs to be located in one of the countries that didn’t signed trade agreements
But USA did sign those agreements and companies willing to sell to EU customers have to respect those rules
zealous ibex
Doesn't VAT get handled by their payment processor? As in, stripe (or whatever they use) takes care of it? (no clue)
nova scaffold
No idea, we used pretty simple service (almost 10 years ago) and didn’t had problems with variable VAT. In some cases, clients would pay VAT on their own.
As 0lento mentioned, we get invoices from their Swiss branch, which technically is not in EU but Switzerland has VAT too
But, Swiss Vat is like 7% I think, while German is almost 20% so there should be visible difference in price
Another point of confusion is that if you are buying product on MP as a business then you as a business pay local VAT of your country. Meaning that now there is a “legal” difference in being charged different amount of VAT into a different country
robust vector
@nova scaffold My point isn't that you don't have such laws on the books. Its that I have the world's largest military and it says they aren't enforceable here. You won't ever see me charging somebody VAT for anything I sell directly to a customer.
nova scaffold
Pfff, yeah sure
robust vector
You can't enforce EU laws on an entity that only resides in the US
Epic SHOULD be obeying, because they have offices in the EU
nova scaffold
That’s not how it works
No one gives a fuck where your company is
You obey EU laws when you sell digital goods to EU citizens
robust vector
No, I don't
I never even ask where somebody is most of the time
I have no assets in the EU, ergo the EU has absolutely nothing they can do to enforce the law on me
Epic sorta does, so if the % not being displayed is a big issue, you might actually be able to get something done about that.
nova scaffold
There is local US agency that collects VAT
You can argue with them if you want when they send you a bill
robust vector
What's the agencies's name?
nova scaffold
No idea, I’m not in US
robust vector
Because it doesn't exist?
nova scaffold
Are you 12 years old or something?
robust vector
No. I just understand law better than some people here...
nova scaffold
Ok, good for you
zealous ibex
There's still international law as far as I know, and if I'm not mistaken the citizen is in charge of ensuring all taxes are properly paid....I don't know anything about law though
robust vector
My only real point here is that laws only matter so far as they are enforced
zealous ibex
Still, them not being enforced isn't an excuse to break them
oak fiber
Technically you are breaking the law but yes it's pretty much an unenforceable unless you specifically get called out by somebody else and they make it a case
robust vector
Its more likely I'll get Russians to stop pirating my stuff though
oak fiber
So some friendly advice. probably not the best thing in practice to go around screaming out that you don't pay taxes
robust vector
lol
zealous ibex
Anyway, I ain't going to engage in this conversation any further 😛 I'll only state incorrect things/upset people/etc.
And what @oak fiber said
robust vector
If I can find a US law mentioning VAT, I'll get more nervous about it / start paying it
sudden mason
I contacted Epic about this. Epic is responsible for the individual transactions so they have to handle VAT when selling to EU countries. You as a marketplace seller sell your assets to Epic Switzerland (for sale in Europe)which is outside EU. So you won't have to deal with it.
zealous ibex
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax#United_States (not a reliable source - but the US does have something like VAT)
elfin plinth
and as reminder, he started this debate only as I mentioned Epic doesn't give the VAT information properly in their invoice
it had nothing to do with what he wants to argue about here
I still need the proper VAT details for bookkeeping
like, if there's 0% VAT, that's fine
robust vector
You took offense when I asked if you had emailed the marketplace support staff
elfin plinth
I just need to know the percentage they've charged
zealous ibex
But yeah - I agree with @elfin plinth, Epic's invoicing stuff can be a pain
oak fiber
Yeah what should be obvious that epic takes a percentage to cover all the cost to run the marketplace part of that being the vat that they're paying for the individual products they're flying back and forth
elfin plinth
again, I'm not going to debate this, even now
sudden mason
But the VAT detail is the transaction to Epic which is outside EU. So if you are in the EU, it's Export, 0%
zealous ibex
(also the seller "invoices", eg. what you got paid is pretty bad)
sudden mason
I haven't sold anything on the marketplace so I don't know what actuallly shows up on the invocie. I'm just repeating what they told me
elfin plinth
@robust vector you just like to argue about things apparently, I'm not really in mood for pointless internet debates that don't give any value to anyone involved
oak fiber
It's obvious their entire Marketplace was built to just cash in on people wanting to make games and other people selling those products
I don't know how it's not obvious
robust vector
@! that is literally every store where the store isn't the one making the products
elfin plinth
@sudden mason in the invoice, there's text "VAT is included if applicable. "
zealous ibex
If I look at prices here, I'm pretty sure I'm A. being charged a huge premium as I'm in the EU, B. their exchange rate is messed up, or C. I'm being charged VAT (which I doappear to), so I'm pretty sure I, as an individual, am being charged VAT. I don't think companies are charged VAT (as b2b is 0% here if I'm not mistaken), but they are taking something. I wish they'd do it the proper way though
elfin plinth
you can't get more vague than that
oak fiber
Yeah exactly they just wanted to cash in on the trend
elfin plinth
they just tell they MIGHT have charged VAT
but they don't tell if they did
you can't put that in the books
oak fiber
What that goes to is it bespokes to the fact that their market place is run like a Jank Fest even to this day
sudden mason
Otherwise you'd need a lot more details for each individual sale
elfin plinth
I'm talking about strictly from buyers perspective here btw
robust vector
The more money I make, the bigger dollar amount that 30% is, the more unhappy I am with Epic. What a paradox.
zealous ibex
elfin plinth
if I were selling, VAT should be charged by Epic and Epic should remit it for appropriate tax authorities in relevant countries, I wouldn't need to do anything myself as a seller
zealous ibex
If that counts as an Invoice, but that is almost a year old I'm afraid
elfin plinth
@zealous ibex what, how do you get that?
zealous ibex
nova scaffold
He said it’s a year old
robust vector
So the new ones have even less info on them?
zealous ibex
(I believe that's the payment processor btw, never got any for free items I got)
robust vector
Is there any reason why checking the base price with a non-VAT account and subtracting that from the price you paid won't give you the VAT?
nova scaffold
And? The point is that you need a “payed that much VAT” statement
zealous ibex
Not sure if there are non-VAT accounts
But you need the statement + it'd be plain ugly
elfin plinth
even on my receipts from 5.6.2016 don't have that info
zealous ibex
Odd 🤔
I paid with my country's local banking system (iDEAL), so maybe that played a role?
nova scaffold
If I buy something from Germany I can deduct their VAT and pay Swiss VAT, for that you need a statement/invoice
nova scaffold
If I buy something as a business but seller is not capable of doing it as a formal B2B transaction, then again you need a statement
robust vector
Any reason you can't just add the info to the invoice you got?
zealous ibex
(Probably not a reliable source, but idc)
That'd probably be considered fraud if the gov. finds out
Anyway, I should really not engage in this conversation....but I did. 🤦
nova scaffold
@zealous ibex yeah, it’s pretty low
elfin plinth
zealous ibex
They aren't charging 8% for here, for a $4.99 that'd be 4.16EUR, 1.08*4.16=~4.49, which isn't €5.37
elfin plinth
this is how my every receipt looks like
even today
I'd want it in the way @zealous ibex got it
where they clearly state the VAT
oh
you get yours from your payment processor
this makes sense
zealous ibex
Correct
zealous ibex
(not iDEAL though I think, some xsolla (https://www.xsolla.com/en/)
(Looks quite interesting as a processor actually 😮 )
elfin plinth
also on the VAT account thing
Epic doesn't have any option to state your VAT ID on your account or when you do the purchase
like most marketplaces like these do
if they had, they would just withold that 0% VAT and everything would be clear
robust vector
Lets not lose sight of what's really important.
I've got low low prices to celebrate New Year's and I bet some of you got cash you need to spend from holiday cards.
nova scaffold
@elfin plinth that’s something basic provided by most payment services, I would think
elfin plinth
yeah, you'd think, but PayPal has never listed that info for some reason
which is kinda weird, considering how old that platform is
and there's very slim chance I'd give Epic my CC details directly, considering how much I trust their security 😄
robust vector
If i'm not mistaken, there have been several people reporting 1000s of dollars in fraudulent charges in last couple of months.
harsh coral
yeah i'd also like to have a way to put my VAT ID somewhere
alternatively, at least a statement of VAT % on the invoice..
nova scaffold
It’s like it might be easier to signup with one the payment services and let them do purchases on your behalf:D
With automatic VAT contribution and proper invoices
harsh coral
their service provider should handle all that
heady moth
Their lack of listing a VAT ID for businesses in EU really grinds the gears of my bookkeeper
harsh coral
same with me.. i'm just buying it on my personal account
to avoid the hassle.. but i can't put it on company expensess etc
heady moth
I shouldn't have to pay vat, yet they charge me and they also don't properly state base price and vat price, which is another issue
My bookkeeper figures it out but Epic should fix it, not that they will..
robust vector
dat 30% at work
heady moth
I had to explcitely ask multiple times before they included our VAT ID on payout records, it just said "Company name" and then what profit epic made and what profit we made
Also with that in mind, they list the current vat id on payout records, not what it was at that date
When we went incorporated we got a new VAT ID, if I download older reports it states the new one
Ironically, they don't update the company name either
but hey, 3 years old marketplace, we're expected to wait on progress from their side right?
robust vector
I could literally commission somebody to fix at least one or two of those things with the 30% they took last month
heady moth
Yeah, 30% is a super high cut for the service we receive
I'd say it's lower than bare minimum(the service, that is)
With all the royalty they ever got from us, they could've implemented all the feature we needed and not cut back on live sales reports
harsh coral
at this point i wonder what their vision is for the MP if they have one even
robust vector
No merketplace alternative can compete without an equivalent to the launcher
zealous ibex
^ I'm working on a launcher, but it's mainly aimed at (free) plugins. Supprised other people were actually interested in using it as a MP alternative
flint snow
🎆 Happy New Year 🎆
zealous ibex
A custom launcher is cool, but who would really want to install yet another program though?
And happy new year @flint snow 😃 🎆
(+ the legal side is a huge pain in the a$$)
harsh coral
i mean there's a ton of stuff that people are pointing out since the beggining, in all aspects of the MP, and not much has been done.. not even the low hanging fruit..
robust vector
Well, on sites that take a lower cut, I sell for a lower total price so that I end up with the same amount.
zealous ibex
Yeah - selling plugins through anything other than the launcher can suck a ton though, nothing really beats the one-click install it provides
robust vector
Exactly, hence no sales for me even with the lower price
harsh coral
idk, i think you could sell plugins on 3rd party site just fine
zealous ibex
😐 I really wish that QC & the legal side wheren't there, or I'd 100% create my own MP 😛
You can, but you're signing yourself up to a lot more support requests (I think), not tested it though
- people don't generally check third party sites
robust vector
I've got literally no sales of my plugins on other sites
harsh coral
yeah, you pretty much have to do all your marketing yourself for any sales
zealous ibex
😐
Yep, it's sort of the same on the MP due to a few bugs, but I guess it's more trusted/easier for people?
Or they may just browse through, or, when the search actually works find something?
robust vector
The user base is conditioned to use the launcher, so you have to fight against that too
harsh coral
i'd argue that too, would like to see some stats how many % of people buy from launcher
zealous ibex
I'm kind of curious though - if a marketplace alternative (with launcher & website) would exist, would you be interested in using it as a buyer over the built-in marketplace? [emoji vote]
harsh coral
i think website is much nicer for buying
robust vector
Website is better for browsing and buying, but the launcher is super convenient for installing and managing projects
harsh coral
you can still install to the launchers vault, but for updating you'd need a separate thing which is kind of a pain.. which i'd be willing to live with for all the other benefits
that said.. managing content in launcher is not all that great too
i could see myself using an alt launcher if it was more featured
zealous ibex
Mind elaborating on more featured? eg. what's missing in the current launcher?
cinder sable
@zealous ibex For me... Lack of folders and tags come to mind...
zealous ibex
Good point 🤔 I don't think I should really start a clone, it's just interesting to see how hard it is to create something/fix the issues people are having ^^
cinder sable
If you could have the ability for third party plugins be easily installed, that would be pretty cool. Like, have the end-user put in the Git address to pull down the source code and then the launcher could build into the engine with the RunUAT.bat command.
robust vector
Be able to install plugins to projects instead of just into engines
elfin plinth
^
or to be able to even download plugins even if you don't have matching engine installed
for example, some want to just use custom engine builds
or plugin might not be updated for your engine so atm you have to first install old engine to be able to download the plugin, then copy it over and fix it manually
would rather skip the old engine download process altogether
zealous ibex
Would being able to install it into the custom engine directly work there too?
elfin plinth
tbh, I think it's stupid to have engine wide plugins
you usually need those plugins for specific projects only
what I personally do is that I just download them with launcher, then move into project dir and wipe the engine marketplace plugins
zealous ibex
Hm, yeah, I guess that's a fair point. I guess I could try a rework of my plugin launcher, but aimed at pre-built plugins & other such content
elfin plinth
in past at least, the way they've setup engine plugins is that they polluted every uproject you opened if you had that plugin installed
it's BS design
I don't know if they still do that tbh
zealous ibex
I don't think that's the case anymore, unless the person has set them to enabled by default
(which I don't do for mine)
elfin plinth
I dunno, I got substance plugin enabled on every project I made with 4.18
so I'd guess it's still same old crap
I think plugin provider can opt to not enable by default
zealous ibex
Hm - not got substance installed right now I'm afraid
elfin plinth
but if you don't do that, your customers will complain it'll not work
as people are stupid like that
zealous ibex
Yeah - I know the issues 😐
elfin plinth
there really isn't much benefit for even having engine wide plugins
zealous ibex
How big of an issue would y'all say not supporting Linux is btw?
elfin plinth
I mean, for marketplace item
zealous ibex
I do like engine wide plugins myself, it means I can easily enable them whenever I want without having to head into the launcher and install it to a project, but I do get the disadvantages too
But then again, there were questions about plugins being per-developer and not like other assets though, right?
elfin plinth
there is fine print in eula
(UE eula that is)
but nobody really knows what it truly means
it's all vague
cinder sable
@zealous ibex For engine wide plugins, there needs to be an easy way to disable them. For example, have catagories for MOBILE... Or Linux, etc. One click and it disables all of those unneeded plugins. I started to work on that, but got bored and moved on.
zealous ibex
Hm, it appears that the EULA (version 12?) is a lot more clear now - pretty sure you are now allowed to distribute plugins to your employess, but again, I AM NOT A LAWYER AND THIS IS PROBABLY INCORRECT. READ THE EULA YOURSELF BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!
Yeah - motivation has to be like the largest killer 😐 But that's a pretty good idea actually
ebon leaf
So I was never able to get a response from Epic on their forums, email, support ticket, or Discord and the $2,200 from the marketplace went through today. My bank filed it as fraud and is disputing it now for me. Just glad I did it on a credit card and not a debit card. I saw that there were more charges made after that but they were blocked because they cancelled my credit card after the initial purchase happened.
So what this means is that if you store your payment information on the site, be prepared for someone to log in and make purchases and have no way to contact Epic before they go through. It is clear that the marketplace has a vulnerable account system because people have reported being able to log in to others accounts by accident. I assume if they were to go try and make a purchase with saved billing info in there that the same would happen. Just a word of warning. Been a stressful few days with this and it's not over yet.
elfin plinth
so this actually happened
like mentioned, I wouldn't trust my CC details on epics hands in any case
robust vector
I always set my plugins to be disabled by default, but would still prefer for them to be installed to the individual projects I need them in
lone mountain
Paypal all the way
elfin plinth
@zealous ibex change log tells this about version 10: Introduces per-seat paid plug-in licensing to the Marketplace but I can't find any part in the actual eula that states this happens, in fact, I didn't find clear indicator for that even when version 10 was released
it doesn't help that Epic has wiped the EULA from github so you can't easily check the EULA diff on the web
old EULA said "You may distribute paid plug-ins to each of your paid plug-in users so that they may use those paid plug-ins on your behalf under the license
like, wtf
but yeah, it appears that per-seat thing went away
nobody even knew how it was handled in the first place
I still think it's BS that they don't have clear separate license for marketplace customers
it's silly they they stuff it in the same license as the engine
also, if you go the UE4 marketplace, in launcher or web, you can't find the terms anywhere unless you know they are in the UE4 eula
usually these kinds of markets have link at the bottom of the page that says license/terms/eula
but not with UE4's marketplace
ebon leaf
Amanda from Epic just reached out to me on Discord about my $2,000 charge issue and damn do I feel better about the whole thing. She said they are aware of it and working on it and she is personally going to follow up.
zealous ibex
Interesting @elfin plinth....surprised they didn't notify me as a plugin developer as that could be a serious reason for me to pull away from the MP
Their seller agreement probably allows them to do it, but I'll just state that I'm...supprised
But I'm glad it's a lot more clear lol
Glad to hear @ebon leaf 😃 Bummer it somehow managed to occur, but great to hear they're working on it!
heady moth
Per-seat license is often a standard for plugins, certainly a plugin we're creating, if we can't have a per-seat license it would be futile to sell it in the first place. The upkeep for it wouldn't be able to be justified without having every user pay for their usage, and that's not even including code upkeep.
zealous ibex
Yeah - I've considered doing plugins that require me to provide a server backend, but generally tend to put the burdon on the user simply due to the fact that the terms can change often, it'd make me jack up prices....a lot, and one purchase, at let's say $9.99, could mean that I'd need to serve 100+ people (in an extreme case, where the owner has let's say 4 projects with 25 people working on each. This is very unlikely though)
- Phasing out something that requires a backend is a huge pain, meaning you're pretty much committing to a plugin for life, even if UE5 releases, and possibly obsoletes what you're working on
But I guess you could process upkeep costs externally? But then people'd probably be upset 🤔
delicate dove
people see fireworks, people buy fireworks?
https://i.gyazo.com/15023a8a691d7c4e3cf084fc6cf2abfd.png
heady moth
People should buy fireworks
I'm totally unbiased on the matter
Right, @delicate dove ? :p
zealous ibex
Nice 👍
delicate dove
was the only sale made yesterday, which is rather odd since it typically doesnt sell that much
elfin plinth
@heady moth the issue isn't option to have per-seat thing, issue is that it's was not stated anywhere in clear words how it worked (if said plugin required per seat or if every plugin required per seat)
so buyer simply doesn't know what he/she is getting
and current UE4 EULA seems to indicate that there is no per seat thing anymore
if it still has, I'd love someone to point out where
delicate dove
when you give someone access to an upcoming "impact" pack, and they make weird stuff like
https://i.gyazo.com/ea5cc4ff06ca2c34b5d631fd58e71c7c.gif
it always funto see people making stuff you dont expect to see
delicate dove
wooden falcon
so did everyone have a good Holiday Sale?
elfin plinth
so, marketplace still doesn't control the shady naming practices
Amplify is a brand / company
it's like they'd allow you to sell fabric materials named Nvidia Cloth
shadow inlet
I think it probably depends on the strength of the brand. Doing a quick Google search yields a lot of different results, not to mention it's also a verb. Can always raise concerns with us though. (We're looking into this one)
elfin plinth
LUT pack is from original company
their brand is really well known on Unity, as they mainly do Unity assets
but they've been around for a long time and do mainly shaders
so picking their brand and putting shader in the name is fishy
but yeah, if it weren't that obvious, like just some other brand with no relation to game engine marketplace assets I wouldn't even mention it
delicate dove
moment I hear Amplify I think unity shaders
shadow inlet
Gotcha - thanks for sharing. I've passed the info along.
elfin plinth
yeah, it's pretty similar, altho it's not 100% same
elfin plinth
I've used amplify shader editor and shader forge in Unity, I prefer amplify as it's so polished
gaunt flicker
I'm making another attempt to make a marketplace for gamedev nonsense using cryptocurrency. https://dallar.org
lavish bronze
@gaunt flicker interesting - why should I give a f@ck?
delicate dove
delicate dove
replied as well
elfin plinth
I like the first question
considering the marketplace staff told in past they don't do that or that they don't even have systems in place that would let them do that
but I think systems have changed since
delicate dove
I hope so.
I mean, wouldnt they be legally obliged to do so anyways?
elfin plinth
I'm still waiting for my corrected invoice
robust vector
I'm pretty sure they never inform customers or refund people when they remove content from the MP
grim canyon
@gaunt flicker how do i mine? batch just closes. 😦
wooden falcon
damn, I feel bad for Ironbelly
gaunt flicker
@grim canyon can hop over to the dallar discord for help, usually means you need to upgrade drivers
solemn prism
Hello
zealous ibex
Interesting - I'm glad I agree with this one, but I have reason to believe 1+ customer got a refund because of buying before the sale 🤔
lunar fractal
Hi
zealous ibex
👋 @solemn prism
zealous ibex
Pretty sure they've yet to release an official statement, not 100% sure though
delicate dove
I just posted that statement here last night. though it did not specifically mention the guns.
zealous ibex
Ah, that was their response. Got it 👍
modern perch
RIP 90% of weapon packs
elfin plinth
all cars too
silver moat
So are they going to remove all real life vehicles too?
modern perch
yup
silver moat
What about all the games in development that are using realistic models?
modern perch
if they're real world designs, then they are liable for action by the copyright holders
silver moat
I don't understand Epic's daily motivations... while realistic weapons/vehicles etc. are widely used in the game industry.
zealous ibex
The companies behind them probably have agreements, but theoretically, the creator of a car or gun can sue you as a game studio if you didn't first ask their permission to use their car/gun/etc.
modern perch
^
zealous ibex
I'd say most games probably use a slightly modified version that everyone'll realize resembles the gun, but is slightly different to avoid patent/trademark issues
(also one of the reasons most games use other names for their guns)
modern perch
I suspect Epic have had a recent run-in with a copyright holder and the rest is a reaction on their part
delicate dove
should make a website/database where companies can put their data if they allow usage of their content within media withing certain guidelines.
if that was true, they'd already remove the content from the marketplace
and not a few months from now
zealous ibex
Such a website would be a huge liability, and I'd doubt it would work, but who knows
delicate dove
yea, i know there would be a lot of holes and other things to cover. just talking out loud.
silver moat
What about all the people who've been buying weapons since forever because epic wasn't enforcing their policy properly?
Not issuing refunds means Epic has been selling people things they're not allowing them to use, on the other hand issuing refunds will make the sellers become homeless for a few generations.
modern perch
it's not Epic's responsibility to ensure that your games are compliant with various copyrights and trademarks
silver moat
But they should be responsible for making the change -now- at this time.
Buyers know that coprighted/trademarked assets aren't allowed on any marketplaces thus when they purchase assets they assume there aren't any copyright/trademark issues with the purchased assets. That is while said assets do have copyright/trademark issues and can't be used by the buyers and that's only because the store decided to enforce their policy 4 years after the store went live. On the moral level Epic owes every buyer of those assets a refund because it's them whose been indirectly confirming weapons had no copyright/trademark issues since they're allowed to be sold on their market while their terms state copyrighted/trademarked assets aren't allowed on the store.
You usually don't expect every buyer to hire a lawyer to investigate whether the asset on the store is free of copyright/trademark in case used in a game. It's always on the store to not allow such contents, let alone the fact that they've been making 30% from selling such content for 4 years...
In simple words it's like, "You can buy these weapons and make a game with them without getting into trouble. -4 years later- anyone who has purchased assets from us can use the assets to make a game on their own risk of getting sued."
real dust
- Epic is indirectly responsible for possible damage done by the copyright infrigement facilitated by them
- Epic is indirectly responsible for possible damage done by the copyright infrigement facilitated by them
- Epic is indirectly responsible for possible damage done by the copyright infrigement facilitated by them
- Epic is indirectly responsible for possible damage done by the copyright infrigement facilitated by them
- Epic has taken a share in selling infringing assets
So yeah, sure, Epic isn't responsible for making sure you're compliant with trademarks etc
But they are responsible for their role in facilitating and actually engaging in infringement
robust vector
Where are you guys getting the info that Epic is killing all weapons?
wooden falcon
they aren't killing them
they're going to "reach out" to possible violators and allow them to make changes
robust vector
I don't think I've seen a weapon pack that hadn't already altered identifying trademarks and such
wooden falcon
they seem to indicate that in some cases, that's not enough
the dude recently who had a glock as part of his character mesh was made to remove it, cause it looked like a glock
he had the option to tweak it though, to try to change it enough to where you wouldn't confuse it with one
robust vector
Well, the whole point of weapon assets is you are supposed to confuse them with real weapons
wooden falcon
true, but if a weapons manufacturer decides that your mesh looks too much like one of their realworld models, they can sue you
robust vector
Do you have a case where that happened?
wooden falcon
and it doesn't matter if you call it a "Splock" or something else
car manufacture sued EA, I think? I'd have to google
Hummer
robust vector
Cars are different
elfin plinth
Hummer case was bit different
sudden mason
Not sure how that's panning out
elfin plinth
They actually had licenced their design and trademark and used it
But they licenced it for toys..
wooden falcon
the gun manufacturers have a ton of power, and if they decide that the image being shown in games is negative to their bottom line, they'll crush any game company using their likeness
sudden mason
Unless you're a giant publisher with an army of lawyers to fight it
wooden falcon
the last thing the games industry needs is the NRA getting on board the "games are bad for kids" train
robust vector
Unlike cars, most gun designs are proprietary
Nearly everyone in the Eastern hemisphere makes their own AK
wooden falcon
I sort of wonder if Epic has some insider info that spooked them into action
robust vector
It seems really weird to make a fuss about it now
elfin plinth
what?
robust vector
Also, designs that were developed by the government are public...?
elfin plinth
of course car designs are proprietary to the manufacturers
if it's a clearly unique design, they can sue you
robust vector
Of course now everything is contracted out
elfin plinth
if you read actual copyright laws, they have model protection for things that are not forced to look the same to be functional etc
wooden falcon
no, gov designs are not public
elfin plinth
like, if you have basic building design, you can't copyright it
but if it's unique design, you can
wooden falcon
elfin plinth
also, I don't think who makes the design in the first place has anything to do how the laws apply
robust vector
I think PUBG would get hit with a suit if something was inbound
wooden falcon
of course, if you look at car manufacturers, there can be very similar designs
elfin plinth
also, if you think about it, car designs for example, it's not a coincidence that GTA cars are mixed from two real world car designs
if they could use one model per car, they would do it
they only do this so car manufacturers can't come after them
wooden falcon
you can use the Vanilla Ice defense 😃
elfin plinth
but yeah, I've shown examples of similar car designs in this channel in past too
technically, if you alter the design, you are pretty safe
just don't make 1:1 copy
sudden mason
Same with cities and landmarks. It's often fine to use as backgrounds but if you want to blow up Big Ben in your game better have deeeeep pockets.
elfin plinth
actually, copyrights have expiration dates
it depends on the subject
but in general it was something like free for all after 70 years after the death of the person why claimed the copyright
sudden mason
Unless it's renewed
elfin plinth
that at least applies to music etc
can you even renew copyright?
it's not a patent
sudden mason
Yes
robust vector
I'm about 80% sure "We've reviewed current content on the marketplace and found everything to be in compliance" will be the result of this
wooden falcon
elfin plinth
wooden falcon
Tolkein has been dead for how long? And his estate still has copyright, doesn't it?
elfin plinth
😄
sudden mason
yes
elfin plinth
in general, this is a mess you don't want to take part in
just alter the design and be safe
I guess some classical music is exception as there are games that could use those
but you'd still need to make your own recording for it
unless you find a really old recording....
wooden falcon
Speaking of ripoffs, anyone watch Bright? That shit's straightup Shadowrun
it's interesting that all of Lovecraft's works are in the public domain
if you wanted to, you could print out his stuff and sell it
robust vector
I see we are still getting refunds without notification
@wooden falcon Do you have a 3d scanner?
elfin plinth
you mean camera?
wooden falcon
nope, I use a canon e05 camera to take about 70+ pictures of each object, then Photoscan to generate a mesh from them
then I usually have to do a bunch of zbrush cleanup
then substance painter for extra detailing on the textures
btw, I have a video now! https://youtu.be/5FJInxLnf_o
forgive me, I bought Sony Vegas really cheap this xmas
robust vector
I'm debating on whether I should by a 3d scanner or just get a decent camera and a turn table
wooden falcon
I'd imagine a scanner would be better, but more expensive
you can get decent results even with a cell phone camera
elfin plinth
camera doesn't have similar limitations for size or mobility
wooden falcon
true
robust vector
Prices are outrageous on the scanners and the stats they give are really vague...
I'll just build my own
Wanting to make some environment packs and it would speed up the process a lot if I could block out all the major forms and pieces with clay
elfin plinth
1 and 3 month subs are -70% for one more day (until steams winter sale ends)
so if you hate photogrammetry after month or two, you didn't lose much money
@robust vector
robust vector
@elfin plinth Looks interesting. Now I just need to buy a camera
elfin plinth
you can even try with mobile phone camera if you have decent phone
it's not as bad as you'd think
main limitation with phone cameras is that F is around 2
when you'd want it around 10
meaning, you usually get objects in focus only in the middle of the images
which may or may not be an issue for scanned item, you can work around it anyway
robust vector
My phone is 7 years old and didn't take pictures well when it was new tbh
elfin plinth
I'd still try to loan the camera somewhere to try it, if you really want to do photogrammetry properly, your camera pick will be different from what you just get when you walk into store and pick one
mainly, if going on budget, you need one that shoots RAW and has lots of megapixels (and decent optics but good lenses always cost)
wooden falcon
I honestly don't even use raws (I shoot with the mode that generates them as well as jpg)
but I'm dealing with dirty yellowing bones, so getting the white balance and coloration true isn't all that necessary
and raw images are huge
delicate dove
Raws ftw. but then again, my old canon's Raw files where only 8mp XD
meager perch
@elfin plinth you do not need synonymous 360 degree cameras?
wooden falcon
I think mine are 25 mb...not that bad actually...but I have hundreds
I have Lightroom, but have never messed with it enough
but to do what you want BlackFang, I'd recommend a 3'x3' lighttent, a turn table, and two little lamps
elfin plinth
@meager perch only if you capture live models
main reason to use RAWs is that you can more wiggle room to fix the colors since colors aren't 8bit
and you can properly color correct them
if you redo the texturework later, it doesn't make that much difference
meager perch
that means you only need 1 picture and you get a complete object
elfin plinth
@meager perch it means you take those pictures around the object manually
if you don't have that dome setup that is
which, 99.99% photogrammetry users don't have
hw for it costs tens of thousands for cameras alone
some have done such setup with some cheapest possible cameras but it was still pretty costly
and then you'd need the space for it too
wooden falcon
yah, one of those setups uses a shitload of cameras, to take them all at once
meager perch
So it is hardly anything if I go with my camera for an object and a few photos of a few perspectives make
wooden falcon
and can you imagine getting the images off the cameras? You'd want the ones that use wifi
lol, a few photos
photogrammetry usually requires a bunch...like I said, for my bones, I generally take around 70
I take a high angle, then a low angle, then I flip the object over and take another series of high angle, then low again
meager perch
yeah okay but its possible with 1 camera without an stativ or something like this
wooden falcon
rotating the object about 10% until I have a 360...for each angle
yah, you just need one camera for a static object
meager perch
okay thanks. it is worth considering buying it
wooden falcon
From my skull scan.
with a turntable, you have to mask EVERY texture
and depending on individual image quality, you might have to mask out blurry bits (or reshoot them) so your resulting texture doesn't have blurry bits
you can tell from the image above that I had to reshoot some (they're not lined up with the other circle of photos perfectly), or take some more because Photoscan needed more info
and some objects don't need nearly as much...you can get away with just a few angles, and greater number of degrees on each turntable adjustment
honestly, the skull could have probably done with less (simple object with a lot of details for the program to key in on)
wooden falcon
lol...it's just a reproduction
meager perch
I do not think so. Anyone could say that! 🤔
robust vector
I don't plan on capturing color at all. I just need the basic geometry.
wooden falcon
The deer skull was a bit harder to capture.
the main problem with photogrammery (at least for me), is that the initial joy of seeing awesome meshes created from a few photos quickly fades and becomes "work"
robust vector
That's pretty much how work works
delicate dove
to quote my tweet's url
https://twitter.com/Luos_83/status/948551844816740352
Twitter
ebon leaf
;D
wooden falcon
lol Luos
wooden falcon
what's the naming convention for blueprints?