also cheap ryzens 30% off
#virtual-reality
wicked oak
wicked oak
embargo leak people
Vive Pro
more res
nearly twice more res
and official wireless adaptors by Vive for normal Vive and Vive pro
neon egret
Nearly twice res might even be possible for most PCs atm
But only for the top end I guess. No idea if my 1080 can do that
Wireless Adaptors are nice though. Will invest into that as deving with the cable is so annoying
wicked oak
multires is still a thing tho
and more res = less pixelation with the distortion
at more res it will look better even if the game res is the same
neon egret
Yeah true, but what hardware can do that atm?
wicked oak
a lot of people already run supersampling at 2
gtx 1070+ type gpus
depends on game and settings
wicked oak
raw data has multires
so you can use it on aggresive mode
and save 40% of the pixels
neon egret
Well, that doesn't improve the pixels you see in your HMD
neon egret
I mean, if you pay attention you can see the pixels of your screens
wicked oak
edges are blurred a bit by lenses anyway
i wonder what is the screendor effect of that new vive
vive did have pretty obvious screendor
also, vive ffs come with the headstrap
becouse the default headstrap is the worst of all vr headsets
all of them
(modern ones)
neon egret
Hm idk. Fallout 4 was something I waited on and the graphics aren't that good after all.
Higher screen res won't fix that
But let's see what comes
mighty carbon
Dishonored 2 renders full res image at the center of the screen and drops res as it goes from the center to the edge. Hardly noticeable, but gives massive performance boost. And that's not even VR game. Beats me why they can't do that for VR.
(no need to do eye tracking for this)
wicked oak
@mighty carbon thats multires
its on the nvidia branch
works great
sadly its nvidia only, and on a nvidia only branch
mighty carbon
that's what I am saying... how hard is it to make it work for everything on any GPU :/
mighty carbon
so CES starts tomorrow, but Vive 2 might be unveiled today
mighty carbon
Oculus won't have any upgrade for CV1 ๐ฆ
granite jacinth
Not knucnles or trackers
mighty carbon
oh
granite jacinth
Damn my typing sucks today
But who knows, we'll see in the official annoucement today
Vive Pro will be the nonmenclature
If that leak is true
sturdy coral
Daaaamn that's a nice res bump
More than odyssey
And doesn't totally devalue my Pimax :)
mighty carbon
I wonder if it will be more expensive than original Vive
granite jacinth
@sturdy coral Yeah, but what's the price ? )
sturdy coral
Evolution of the deluxe audio strap
granite jacinth
I'm hoping for a Vive 1 decrease
sturdy coral
I hope that means a better version and isn't just a Google translate phrasing
granite jacinth
and Vive Pro slip into that spot
But more than likely not...
Probably going to carry a premium with that Pro nomenclature
sturdy coral
Deluxe audio strap needs to have the ability to lock the pitch angle of the display
Yeah probably a premium, what was the cheapest odyssey sold for? Like $350 during that brief huge sale?
I don't think it will be any less than that for an upgrade version without lighthouse/controllers, even though that included tracking and controllers
granite jacinth
Oh really it was $350?
Damn, I missed that
Nah.. I think "Vive 2.0" will happen when the last piece of the puzzle is completed. So either the trackers or knuckles
It'll most likely be this headset (or even perhaps a newer version of it), trackers and knuckles
I mean, that would practically be a brand new model
Maybe the cables stay the same
Unless they offer wireless out of the door
granite jacinth
Meh, still high priced for half the experience
But I haven't tried it, I am just talking out of my butt
sturdy coral
Or if they do a business angle at first, maybe >$1000 :P but people would be pissed
I think a consumer ver will possibly be near $1000 with controllers and base stations and then lots of sales and stuff pretty quickly. That way they get the early adopter money
$899-999 is my guess unless LG ends up announcing something very similar for a lot cheaper
If Pimax had actually shipped in Jan and hit 90hz the landscape would be different :P
granite jacinth
yeah
But Pimax messed up
And now Valve has a chance to gain some ground
Vive 2.0 with new hmd, trackers and knucles can't be $1000
It would just mess up the flow
tired tree
i would go back to my DK2 if it came with knuckles
granite jacinth
If they don't do $600 or less in V2.0 man...I don't know
mighty carbon
Odyssey was never cheaper than $429 (or 459)... Even on sale.
sturdy coral
I don't think it is a real v2 enticing people to upgrade yet
I feel like they would have changed all the styling if so, it is more like an iPhone S version
mighty carbon
hmm.. 4.19p1 should be coming in the second half of January :/
tired tree
why the face? that is after next week
mighty carbon
๐
wicked oak
very interested on seeing what ended up making the cut
please dynamic res
but im not sure about it, the last commits about dynamic res say that its for planar only, no vr
dynamic res would work incredibly well with my next game
tired tree
its not up for VR yet
sturdy coral
the temporal upscaling works in VR it just isn't doing the automatic changing part for whatever reason
seems like you could pretty easily wire up the oculus code and the steamvr resolution bucket code that shipped in 4.18 in a kind of broken state to it
they do have something like a 8 frame delay before changing resolutions though which might make the auto res a good bit less responsive (I think it something about hitting each neighboring pixel)
well LG apparently didn't announce any VR stuff in their keynote. probably nothing until GDC or later
mighty carbon
wicked oak
@sturdy coral i can literally access GPU % from ps4 code
and oculus literally has an SDK call for it
sturdy coral
so does steamvr
oculus has a call that just tells it exactly what auto res to use
as a percentage of the previous frame or something I think
I can't imagine them shipping 4.19 without including support for it with HMDs, but it is possible it doesn't look that great in a more complicated scene
I've only tested it in a very plain area in the VR template
wicked oak
in my game i will have quiet sections and more flashy sections
dynamic res would be a HUGE win
quiet sections get supersampling, for better quality when roaming around or in menus (more readable)
and when explosions are happening and other shit, then the game lowers res to not lag
the res thing is critical on PSVR, where the gpu is not really that strong, and ill use dynamic light a bit (with the toon shaders and other stuff)
noble crater
anyone managed to get tranparent/masked textures working in spectator screen?
sturdy coral
@noble crater what do they do, not show up at all? or are you using dither temporal AA?
noble crater
@sturdy coral they show up, but without any transparency. I'm not using dither temporal AA
dusky moon
My Documentary VR project is finally on Viveport. check it out guys:
https://www.viveport.com/apps/c410a756-e6c9-4e45-a087-0b44fcc1244d
supple coyote
woah looks interresting
I always forget why my Slate UI acts up
son of a gun
@sturdy coral I remember we spoke about Slate UI and performance before
Slate using tons of ms for no reason
do you remember what conclusion we came to?
(not using widgets or anything)
Oh actually I remember it was nvidia's overlay thing
ive turned that off tho
only thing I can think of is windows just updated
sly elk
About 4 months ago there was a sharpened TAA solution we were talking about on here. Does anyone know what happened to that?
mighty carbon
tired tree
you have to compile the engine for it
and seeing as how he never made a 4.18 version, you'd have to port it if you wanted 4.18
sturdy coral
unofficial livestream of the htc announcements:
super shit quality
new strap looks nice!
looks like stereo cameras!
zinc violet
sturdy coral
I wish the dual front cameras would move when you adjusted IPD, but I guess that would make them hard to calibrate for machine vision applications
it would make passthrough a lot better though
mighty carbon
heh, they are going to offer their own wireless adapter.. Looks definitely better than TPCast
if they had knuckles, I'd be thinking of getting Vive Pro
sturdy coral
@mighty carbon did you hear what he said the wireless frequency it runs on was? I couldn't hear
mighty carbon
nah, I can't hear - at work
sturdy coral
I'm wondering if it is like TPCast or something using a lot more compression at lower frequency
mighty carbon
I just read excerpts from the link @zinc violet posted
sturdy coral
hmm it says the HMD-only version is available this quarter, that's good
very tempting..
the strap design is partly new but actually doesn't look as good as I first thought =/
I want them to offer something closer to windows MR and PSVR style
dusky moon
did they mention anything about the weight ?! seems like it's about to get heavier :/
tired tree
dual microphones.....niiice
tired tree
second used to cancel out noise
dusky moon
also dual cam ... doesn't seem like very useful or is it ?
tired tree
curious about the "later in the year new controllers package", can only assume they are knuckles form factor
dual cam is very useful
granite jacinth
dual cam for AR?
tired tree
can do SLAM tracking or AR, at the very least better matrix mode
granite jacinth
hmm
They mention price?
That wireless adapter...
lol
Looks so funny
But I was right
You can do HMD-only upgrade
dusky moon
by the way, it just felt good ... been a while since haven't heard of any progress and the VR tech was getting depressing ...
mighty carbon
hmm.. .no word about higher res HMD screen in Vive
dusky moon
Did they mention anything about tracking system ?! can we finally setup two vive stations next to each other ?!
supple coyote
whats the final word on this HZB madness
everyones always saying HZB HZB HZB. what's the DEAL with HZB?
tired tree
? @mighty carbon they specifically quoted new resolution
mighty carbon
saw another live stream.. The Vive Pro has a 2,800 x 1,600 display, 615 PPI.
granite jacinth
@tired tree what it is?
tired tree
โ2880x1600 total resolution (615dpi)
granite jacinth
oh, okay so the rumor was true
tired tree
its got new lens's
tired tree
no idea, likely valves
supple coyote
HZB?
mighty carbon
I am surprised Oculus isn't on CES 2018
mighty carbon
I am guessing if Vive Pro will be priced as Pro-segment, then most likely enterprise segment will be buying it
tired tree
aside from connect talk
mighty carbon
Well, I was hoping they would show final Go at CES
fair comet
Hi guys I am doing a test with a small terrain in VR, I have a new project VR BP example, with forward shading on.
I have added exponential heightfog and its making me have like 50% re-projection ratio, I have looked at the docs and found it says the shadow scalability effects this, but trying lower settings seams to show same result.
I am mainly prop artist so sorry if this is really dumb question.
granite jacinth
@fair comet did you prematurely do forward rendering?
fair comet
I dont know what you mean sorry?
fair comet
Cos I want msaa
The docs say there is issues with atmospheric fog and MSAA but Height fog has a setting that is enabled by default when forward shading is enabled.
glossy agate
Not sure about those big robot arms for headphones on the new Vive. At least the cameras looks actually useful now.
glossy agate
Would be nice to just have a button on the hmd to turn on a pass through cam. So you can find your drink easier, or type.
granite jacinth
Oh, so I need help from my fellow VR superstars... anyone else running into an issue that when you hit Play In VR, the damn Editor takes focus and pops up in front of the VR preview? Which means I lose focus in the game. I am not entirely too sure when it started happening, somewhat recently.
Just wondering if it's something on my end or known UE4 bug.
supple coyote
That happens to me occasionally
not often enough to be a problem for me tho personally
like once every 20 times maybe?
not sure the cause
how often is it happening to you?
granite jacinth
Ah, mine is happening almost everytime I launch now
Trying to debug it...but no clue
wicked oak
hapens since 4.18 for me
personally i just make sure to click in the vr window to be sure
its a very minor annoyance
full junco
that new vive looks nice
wicked oak
ask valve for some
full junco
their video is nice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPMJDXmYwiY
wicked oak
that way you can get ignored (like all of us if we ask)
granite jacinth
That happens when you have lots of money
full junco
ask valve for what?
full junco
yeah, because devs can just old the old one
full junco
you dont need the new one for any devving
granite jacinth
Well if devs have the old kits
you can just get HMD upgrade
I mean, if you want games in the newer res
we need to playtest
But I know, their logic is different
full junco
yeah I'll probably end up buying the new one
full junco
unless its like $600 standalone
full junco
yeah that would be acceptable
granite jacinth
But who knows
full junco
but I kinda expect it to be higher
full junco
even the current vive hmd alone is like 300-400 dollar I think? so the new one would be more
granite jacinth
Yeah, if they somehow give us both cheaper than my estimates...fml
Hmm, I don't know about that
Trackers are like $150 each
Controls are $130
full junco
well the vive pro will be retail
granite jacinth
without HMD
yeah
So, they are just selling the HMD alone though
They can't logically do too much of a price premium
full junco
they can
most profit from vive pro will come from the hmd alone I think
because its mostly the same people that already bought a vive that want to have the new one now
granite jacinth
Aye, I mean I don't disagree
I just...man, if VR tech doesn't come down in price, I don't know what will happen with VR
If they really want this shit everywhere, in every household, they need to get a little crazy, take some risks
alpine torrent
High Takes Company
granite jacinth
BUt anyway
They know VOlta is coming out
So hopefully those suckers can easily handle it
full junco
the new vive might use the exact same panel from samsung like odyssey
a review of the new vive says the audio quality is better than the one from the deluxe audio strap
but it doesn't feel much different than old vive and deluxe audio strap
granite jacinth
So basically, color, new headphones and lenses from Samsung
I dont' see how they could justify a huge price premium
But meh
full junco
did they actually say new lenses?
granite jacinth
How do you get a higher res without new lenses?
full junco
you can just use the same lenses?
granite jacinth
no...
granite jacinth
What happens when you try to do a higher res on a regular monitor?
full junco
you dont have lenses on a regular monitor
granite jacinth
The point of this higher res is hopefully to reduce screendoor
which means they need new lenses
full junco
no? lol
granite jacinth
What
full junco
current lenses + new display = more res and less screendor
full junco
lol
full junco
yeah I was too
granite jacinth
Then I realized I was using the wrong thing
But anyway
no, they didn't say anything about new lenses
But if they don't that's stupid
full junco
I would hope they also improved the lenses, at least a bit
granite jacinth
But, not a huge deal breaker
I really wish I could have tried out Pimax 4k
or 8k
Then I could be more informed
full junco
the new vive is also lighter it seems
btw, the fact that HTC wants to keep selling the old vive through all of 2018 means they really want to make the new one an expensive special thing
full junco
"HTC said that the Vive Pro would be available later this quarter as an upgrade kit for existing Vive owners. The new headset would also be available as a full kit, presumably with updated base stations, later this year."
full junco
so until the vive pro is "really" out for new people it will take a long time (summer)
makes sense they won't ship it with old base stations
full junco
yeah to make it possible to sell it standalone
granite jacinth
Aye
So if it is in bundle, I would hope it's because base station 2.0 and knuckles are coming out
BTW, anyone else use the Vive trackers? with or without the gun? Super lame
full junco
lol, this "review" from a german website (a shitty one) about the new vive:
Our editor Robert Berg was able to have a quick look at the Vive Pro. His conclusion: "The Vive Pro is the consequent further development of the Vive. Colours and contrast have increased significantly, plus the gigantic resolution, which even surpasses that of the Galaxy S8. Too bad: The field of view has not widened significantly and the Vive is still clumsy and heavy on the head.
so you have someone at CES testing it, and then thats all you write in your article...
that the resolution "even surpasses that of the Galaxy S8" is such a stupid comparison
the "Colours and contrast have increased significantly" is interesting though
unless they mean colour and contrast of the new HMD shell...
granite jacinth
@full junco yeah but what magazie was he writing for?
like what type of mag
Yes, they means the blue and black colors lol
But you could be onto something. If the color accuracy is improved
full junco
@granite jacinth that German magazine is the computer section of the worst tabloid we have in Germany
I found a really good review of the vive pro:
another one:
full junco
thats when?
full junco
I expect it to be significantly earlier
granite jacinth
Early birthday gift it is
I mean, I don't mind paying the premium at this point. I was on the fence with Pimax since it was unknown brand
But I'll definitely drop some money on official stuff
"official"
But, Pimax has shaken things up
WHich is why I think this happened with Vive
If it wasn't for the Pimax, I have a suspicious feeling that this wouldn't have happened so soon
full junco
so all current vive accessories price + vive pro hmd has to be significantly higher than the current vive bundle price, otherwise no one would buy the current gen vive.
and also the deluxe audio strap alone is already quite expensive
so the vive pro will definitely be more than current vive hmd + deluxe audio strap
full junco
yeah
granite jacinth
Big possibiity
Especially Rift now basically tied on Steam Hardware Results with Vive
If Valve/HTC want to really take market share, they have to do something
full junco
HTC does not care about marketshare
valve does
but I think valve doesn't care about HTC
what I do wonder about is why HTC already announced that thing now...
every day the pro isn't on the market but people know it comes, regular vive sales will be hurt like hell
sturdy coral
so sounds like the weight isn't improved much?
full junco
why?
sturdy coral
that german article
sturdy coral
the Vive is still clumsy and heavy on the head.
tired tree
it sounded like it was improved decently, and that is WITH build in ears
sturdy coral
ah ok
full junco
they also compared the resolution to a galaxy s8...
tired tree
supposed to be lighter than the v1 with additional hardware
like the look of the headband, the aftermarket one is great and that one looks better
sturdy coral
with stereo cameras we should be able to have our hands arms and bodies in game using disparity mapping
that will make a big difference
even if you don't use it for gameplay
sturdy coral
I bet they don't have the software ready yet
full junco
if I would be HTC, I would wait with announcing the pro until the day I can ship it out
tired tree
its because they are probably just passthrough on launch
sturdy coral
yeah probably just a straight passthrough, which wouldn't be able to integrate into a game world
they do mention something about improved chaperone
tired tree
they are very close together
sturdy coral
yeah, may not be usable for inside out tracking, etc.
but even close together should be fine for pulling in your arms and bodies
iphone even before the X can do it with narrower spacing
but it isn't super accurate
mighty carbon
full junco
I think close together doesnt mean anything regarding inside out tracking. 1 camera is enough for inside out tracking @tired tree
close together just means less FOV
mighty carbon
I hope now we can release Oculus Go apps for Chinese market easily
mighty carbon
I think they just push mobile harder than desktop
full junco
oculus cares about mass adoption
valve doesn't
oculus is fine with lower quality VR for the masses, valve wants to keep focus at high end gaming VR I think
and oculus might also think its too hard to compete against valve due to steam
sturdy coral
I think Oculus is probably taking a loss on hardware
maybe not at this point, but probably when they first did the $300 sale this summer
full junco
yeah
sturdy coral
if you could look at the steamvr graph on manufacturer profit I'm sure HTC would be way up there
full junco
yeah
HTC made a shit ton of money due to all the hate on oculus
they could sell at a higher price and more
and due to better tracking etc
sturdy coral
hopefully they will keep trying to maintain being the high end headset
full junco
and the time where roomscale was only vive
sturdy coral
I don't think they are going to compete with windows MR on the low end any time soon
full junco
and when is that stupid LG headset actually coming? that takes forever
zinc rose
if oculus is going for mass adoption they have a funny way of showing it. the USB style sensors are pretty crappy unless you have teh stars align properly on your particular motherboard and usb channels. and the cables are short and not compatible with many extensions.. the tracking when it does work is unforgiving... i can put my vive setup on either of my pcs.. one signfinicantly lower spec than the other and get good performance on both. have had bad experience with oculus in general
sturdy coral
yeah I don't know, LG didn't mention it at their press conference today
full junco
@zinc rose yeah they dont care about mass adoption with their PC headset (rift). I meant the mobile ones
sturdy coral
@zinc rose agreed on USB.. Oculus should have had integrated processing in the cameras to track the LEDs and made them wireless
Oculus also fragmented things into front facing for some customers, full roomscale for others
though PSVR was already going to do that for a lot of titles
zinc rose
i can sit like 6 feet outside of my vive play area and the tracking is still almost perfect.... i can't be outside the oculus sensor by a foot without it bugging out. its rough for testing.
tired tree
didn't mean it for tracking
full junco
yeah, for devving I always use vive
only use rift when I need to test if it works on rift
zinc rose
my high end workstation cant run the oculus at all.. the usbs dont work.. i did buy an extended usb pce card and it does work on that. but.. kind sucks to have to do that
sturdy coral
same, and then they are like that usb card you bought that we recommended? you'll need another for more cameras or a different one
zinc rose
yeah i put my vive on the lwoer end pc to test multiplayer since the vive works well there.. but the oculus is meh on both.. surprising its better but not good on the lower end pc. i guess the onboard usb is just better suited somehow
sturdy coral
the place Oculus is a bit better in dev is having space warp
zinc rose
im not sure if it wa srecommended here. i found it recommended on reddit site
sturdy coral
if your game can't run full 90hz in an editor build
zinc rose
i have three sensors with it. and they seem to work alright when standing in the centre.. tho it complains one isnt connected right. it still works ok
sturdy coral
until they let you remove that health and safety warning it was borderline unusable for dev
zinc rose
is there any way to disable the head sensor in the headset? without using ductape and patience?
sturdy coral
yeah there is a way now
in the debug tool
that was added around the time of the health and safety disable I think
zinc rose
i need to look into that.
sturdy coral
4.18 seems to let the controllers work when the headset is off too
sort of, not with full tracking
granite jacinth
HTC Marketing... on par with Intel
zinc rose
im using the oculus for main testing for the last few months.. i figured "if it works in oculus decently I dont really need to worry about performance in vive"
granite jacinth
But seriously, does anyone know of a workaround for VR preview losing focus to the editor (since it pops up in front and takes focus) on the Rift? I need to test Vive later.
But, sort of becoming lame
sturdy coral
@granite jacinth there is a call to set all focus to viewport in a couple places you can change
full junco
granite jacinth
It's just strange because I've never had this problem until maybe a week ago
mighty carbon
at this point I am more interested in Santa Cruz (if it's powerful enough and costs around what Rift costs)..
sturdy coral
I wish they would get rid of the over-head strap that fucks everyone's hair up
I don't like the blue, look like all the plastic doesn't quite match
zinc rose
@sturdy coral LOL.. for real! when waiting for my gf to get ready to go out and im all done up.. ill hit play and start testing and wreck my hair
i guess its to support the weight...
sturdy coral
yeah, windows MR/PSVR just handles it a lot better I think
I guess with the wireles stuff they still need something up top to mount that to
full junco
it really looks black and not blue
zinc rose
does anyone know how the go model works? like its pc-less right.. do you stream games via wifi or something?
mighty carbon
same as Gear VR
sturdy coral
the plastic that adjusts in and out for glasses and has the facial padding looks black and some of the other padding black, and the rest kind of bluish like it doesn't all fit together
mighty carbon
just no need to have phone
sturdy coral
santa cruz won't be a big seller I don't think unless they can hit a really low price point
mighty carbon
no, it's not a phone ๐
sturdy coral
or add PC compatibility to it
full junco
all that mobile stuff is soooo boooooring
vive pro excites me way more
and pimax too
anything that "pushes the boundaries". not stuff that goes back in tech just to get cheaper/easier to use
granite jacinth
@full junco you wouldn't be excited for Vive 1.0 at $200 mark?
full junco
not in 3 years
if it would come out now, yes
or no
it it would have come out half a year ago, then yes
granite jacinth
rofl
full junco
official video from HTC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsMWAQcPzM8
granite jacinth
No one's mentioned it
full junco
from their conference
sturdy coral
PSVR looks so much nicer, though some of that is from full RGB
granite jacinth
Yeah, I need to start using my PSVR actually
haven't touched it or the devkit yet
I am a slacker
sturdy coral
I got the aim and some move controllers finally, charging the aim up now and I'm going to try out farpoint
otherwise I haven't tried anything but GT sport and the mini game thing
full junco
another nice hands on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GZi1qa2yN0
alpine torrent
why that looks closer to Rift?
tired tree
it doesn't?
granite jacinth
Totally looks like a Vive with two eyes
Oh
You must mean the integratedheadphones
and yes, that's because Vive was late to the party and copied
with their deluxe
(which I have and it's pretty awesome)
mighty carbon
they should have gone for some steampunk design.. otherwise it looks pretty bizarre o.O
granite jacinth
Pretty small headset
sturdy coral
@full junco ah yeah that was one of the better videos, he goes into the optics a bit
sturdy coral
it says VR cover ๐ so it might just be for the show
glossy agate
Hope pro has color options. Need it to coordinate with my chair and computer.
glossy agate
So I can not look at any of it while using it
granite jacinth
Vive = blue/black
sturdy coral
if I keep hearing reports it is lightweight I might grab it
glossy agate
Guess Iโll get the protector kit so it matches
sturdy coral
it does look like it is rigidly attached to the strap and kind of clutches in place tilt-wise like the rift
the DAS it just freely pitches up and down and you have to use the top strap to kind of lock it in place which isn't great
at least DAS with the Vive Pre adapter kit is like that
still frost
Is the FPS template alright to develop enviroments for VR if I want to quickly prototype enviroments without putting headset on
sturdy coral
@still frost you should probably use the post processing and scalability settings from the VR template
tired tree
ripple took off
glossy agate
Yeah. Crypto mining
tired tree
well not ripple itself, but when one jumps, everyone tries to get on the next "big" thing
and Eth took off lately too
granite jacinth
Can't believe this craze still
Just want it to implode on itself
Lots of good GPUs being wasted
mighty carbon
can't mine ripple
I am surprised prices skyrocketed again - everything except ripple wend down
also 1080 is a bad investment vs 1070... yet 1080s are out of stock on NewEgg :/
all of AMDs are out of stock
wtf
I'd say MS needs to have XB1X support Windows MR and then we wouldn't have to worry about GPUs
sturdy coral
I've been waiting on RAM prices to drop before upgrading to ryzen or threadripper
I don't want to upgrade and then not even be able to open kite demo ๐
mighty carbon
yeah, RAM prices are bizarre
my 16Gb were $89, now it costs $190
(wanted to upgrade to 32Gb of RAM)
granite jacinth
@sturdy coral I wouldn't wait for RAM
I read there were shortages again
If anything they will be going up in price soon
mighty carbon
went up ~$10 in a few weeks
I think consumer VR market is going to be stagnant if people can't buy GPUs
glossy agate
Why is ram having shortages though? Maybe when crypto crashes used gpus will be everywhere for cheap
mighty carbon
I wonder if this would work for VR https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125913 (using Rift or Windows MR HMDs)
perhaps future is with mobile / standalone VR if PC hardware will keep getting more expensive
glossy agate
Googled around and I guess mobile is whatโs causing the ram shortage making the price go up
full junco
@granite jacinth hmm, interesting, I actually didn't notice that gpus are out of stock again
but ethereum alone is up 40% the last 7 days, so it makes sense
full junco
kindred island
daaaaamn
my current vive system is already struggling with some recent games, wonder what will happen with vive pro... prolly gonna have to roll with 1080 ti for sure now
tired tree
lol, do you know what that means?
they are just making sure a third party's program still works by giving him a beta to fix it off of
the real news is the total control re-mapping they are implementing, which is why they had to do that to begin with
mighty carbon
meaning now I can remap Doom VFR controls to match Touch better ?
tired tree
not "now" but soon yes
i wouldn't move to that beta yet, likely buggy
you could have anyway with the OpenVR-InputEmulator btw
mighty carbon
cool
supple coyote
is there any answer to the HZB mipmaps performance loss?
digging through answerhub and not seeing anything conclusive
granite jacinth
@Slapunas#0583 what gpu you got now?
@kindred island
@full junco yeah, I was looking around because I needed to check what an equivalent to a 1070 was on AMD's side I think
Which looks to be something in between a Vega 56 and 64
which there's nothing now
full junco
1070 is vega 56
full junco
but the vega GPUs were never really available
full junco
nvidia released the 1070 ti because the 1070 was below a vega 56
full junco
the 580 is the main mining card
wicked oak
man, i need a new gpu, but i know the 2000 series might come soon-ish
but seeing nvidia saying fucking NOTHINg
i guess its still a while
full junco
nvidia is now in intel-mode
granite jacinth
Not GPU
Nvidia can wait
They have no competition to Volta yet
They want GPU prices to soar
And then they'll drop all old shit at higher prices retail
then Volta out at a super premo
They aren't stupid
full junco
they said it
granite jacinth
When?
full junco
a few months ago or so
wicked oak
nvidia biggest competitor its itself
granite jacinth
And Volta Consumer will be in Spring
wicked oak
but honestly, they are making SO MUCH MONEY of AI stuff
that gaming doesnt even matter that much for them now
thats why they have released several different models of AI/calcs chips, while we are still under the 10x0 gen
full junco
its Heise that somehow got that information, its the main professional IT site in germany
wicked oak
seems we wont still get anything new for a while
glossy agate
Well some gaming is cause the price hike too. The Chinese gaming market is growing a ton. Some of the vendors said they are sending a lot that way.
full junco
yeah get a 1070 ti or a 1080
glossy agate
Just bad luck with crypto, ai, and China all wanting extra GPUs right now
wicked oak
nvidia is not that popular with crypto
the ones that make MASSIVE money from crypto is AMD
nvidia makes absolute BANK on AI/simulation
becouse nvidia has Cuda, wich is superior
and nvidia offers tons of free high quality libraries
that they use for building blocks in AI or simulation
full junco
AMD does not make massive money from it, because AMD can't produce enough GPUs
Nvidia does make more money with the crypto stuff, because they actually manage to scale supply better
granite jacinth
@wicked oak I scored a 1070ti for $415 USD on Newegg
I was obviously worth. At the time 1080s I could find were $550+
I mean, I really wanted a 1080, but then again...I was hoping something new was coming soon
I just needed an upgrade from my old ass 980
Which I still have
wicked oak
given that this days i give few fucks about pc games, keeping the 970 is not needed
mighty carbon
the thinking here is this - if you can't buy a new GPU, what makes you think end-users can?! This is what I am aiming at lower end hardware to make sure people can play on 1050Ti as shortage of GPUs will only get worse with time
wicked oak
@mighty carbon becouse im doing ps4 anyway, so i give zero fucks about the PC
at least until game is finished and i want to get it running on pc
at wich point, the game runs on ps4
so its going to run on everyone
mighty carbon
then keep using your 970?
mighty carbon
probably need more RAM and better CPU in this case
wicked oak
36 gb + ryzen
mighty carbon
and SSD
mighty carbon
then I don't know what you are doing.. I don't have whole a lot of issues with my 1060 and 16Gb of RAM and i3
wicked oak
just general vr games starting to run slow
and if im going to get higher res headsets like that vive pro...
mighty carbon
I thought you don't care for PC VR ๐
I hope XB1X will get VR soon.. If this ongoing GPU/RAM shortage will persist, then console/mobile VR will grow much much bigger than PC VR market.
(and I am not willing to develop for PSVR simply because it's too expensive and too pain in the ass)
full junco
even if you dont want to release on PC, as a VR enthusiast you really want to have the latest awesome hardware if possible ๐ @mighty carbon
especially if you have controllers and lighthouses already and you can buy just the new HMD
that always was one of the main reasons why vive was superior to rift. vive is a whole ecosystem
can mix lighthouses, controllers and HMD from different companies
@granite jacinth in germany I dont notice a GPU shortage again yet, 1070 and 1080 are available at normal prices
stable shadow
Hello guys , I need some help on this topic :
https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/744415/vive-not-working-after-a-few-minutes.html
mighty carbon
any idea if UE4 is getting something for Oculus Go ?
mighty carbon
well, what exactly "everything GearVR related" is coming in 4.19 ?
tired tree
why are you asking about hardware that isn't out yet?
wicked oak
probably to make sure that his game will be fine
dont worry @mighty carbon , Go is 100% backwards compatible
tired tree
yeah its on the same API
wicked oak
and if your game runs on gearvr already, it will run, but better, on Go
granite jacinth
Anyone get a Go dev kit?
tired tree
they made changes in....4.17? (might have been 4.18) consolidating the GearVR into the generic OculusHMD module. @mighty carbon if you remember the controller became a motion controller instead of a seperate object
that was likely all for the platform unification
and likely handled most of what GO would require
mighty carbon
I see
I am just wondering if mobile Vulkan or ES 3.1 for VR will be realized in 4.19 or 4.20
otherwise we are stuck with ES2.0 for mobile VR
@granite jacinth they said I can get it after the privileged devs get it
@tired tree stuff like HISMCs and foliage were not optimized for mobile VR. GPU particles were super slow too.
tired tree
don't exactly know what you expect there....
mighty carbon
not dropping fps to 20+ when using HISMCs
btw, speaking of UE4 performance optimization - ran MGS: Revengeance and Raji on my laptop (i5, Intel GPU, 8Gb RAM). The former ran blazing fast, the latter was a slideshow :/
(maybe not UE4's fault entirely, but how the game demo was built)
wicked oak
@mighty carbon mobiles fucking hate meshes
hism or ism or just normal ones
its absolutely critical you make as few drawcalls as possible, and they dont reallly have instancing support in the damn chip
every time you do drawcalls on mobile, it bins the triangles to the different tiles of the screen, this of course takes time
mighty carbon
hmm.. you'd think after so many generations and presence of 3D games on mobile for a long while they would make better mobile GPUs..
mighty carbon
ism/hism suppose to decrease drawcalls unless they work differently than basic batching
wicked oak
its much bettter for isometric/top down, as that has easy culling
mobile gpus dont even support culling
but it doesnt matter @mighty carbon , becouse all the overhead of sending stuff to tiles is still a fucking pain
still frost
@sturdy coral so should I import the fps blueprint into the VR template
mighty carbon
how is it different sending batched triangles vs unbatched triangles ?
it's the same effort
batching is done on CPU anyway
at the end you send the same triangles to GPU
so having HISMs and one solid mesh should yield the same performance
rocky nimbus
Getting heavy lag all of a sudden, never seen this in the profiler before anyone know what's happening?
This section is taking 10ms and everything below it is 3ms or under, so this must be it
wicked oak
@mighty carbon have you tried if there is difference?
between an actor merge version of the mesh, as 1 mesh, and the instanced one
mighty carbon
I did and that's why I said I would like for Epic to optimize HISMCs
once you batch triangles, it should be exactly the same on GPU side as processing one single mesh
and since batching happens on CPU, it has nothing to do with GPU architecture
tired tree
HISMCs supports LODs as well
mighty carbon
and culling
mighty carbon
how?!
tired tree
they even STATE that it is more expensive
mighty carbon
even ISMCs run slower than single mesh
tired tree
20fps expensive? doubtful
mighty carbon
try it
tired tree
sorry, meant that as it shouldn't be 20 fps expensive
mighty carbon
I tried it and that's why I gave up on using ISMCs anf HISMCs
mighty carbon
aye
I would even settle for ISMCs simply because it's easier to build levels and for per instance culling
glossy agate
Would be nice if Ramas plugin became native, where you can just convert static meshes to instances.
granite jacinth
sexy
mighty carbon
6DoF
enticing
I wonder if "under $400" means $349 or $399
I wonder if cameras are for tracking only or if it can also do AR
I might even go for this one instead of Go due to full tracking
sturdy coral
3dof control though right?
tired tree
not entirely sure how much I like that bug form
lots of problems have been pinned down with multiple users going back and forth with staff over the problem
answerhub is pretty terrible for bug reports, but that aspect of it was at least great.
noble crater
anyone know how to get DrawDebugString working in VR? the positions are all wrong
mighty carbon
@sturdy coral 6DoF HMD and 3DoF controller
since it uses 835 SoC, I wonder how much quality and performance they managed to squeeze out of the SoC
might give a good idea of what Santa Cruz can accomplish, unless Oculus went with inferior SoC on it too :/
I can see Mirage Solo being used in business (walking around virtual architecture and looking under the virtual bed, etc.) where you don't really need 6DoF controllers.
full junco
@granite jacinth @mighty carbon lol, that bug submission thing is horrible. how can you like that?
full junco
AH is WAY WAY WAY better
full junco
this method is just epic trying to save money on AH staff
granite jacinth
This will help produce higher quality reports
full junco
with this method you can't even talk to epic any more about bugs...
and you cant see what bugs other people submitted
full junco
sure
full junco
hundreds of times I searched for a bug and found some report on AH already
granite jacinth
if you follow the directions
and have videos/gif/repro steps
I mean...
Not really hard
I like the change
Forces people to actually do something extra
full junco
usually you are way too lazy to create full repro steps and videos whatever stuff. with that I would not report bugs any more
granite jacinth
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
full junco
and I reported a shit ton of bugs on the AH
granite jacinth
I used to
Then stopped
After I was not getting any responses
I have been getting more and more lately though
granite jacinth
Aye
But they need to focus
Half the time they were going back and forth with people
And they were too dumb to do what Epic asked
So now, if they don't, it goes into the trash can
tired tree
how does this help them focus? if anything minor bugs get focused now and large ones like that blueprint wiping bug get ignored
granite jacinth
Dude
tired tree
you won't get full reports for very hard to duplicate bugs
granite jacinth
you don't think they know about that?
Of course they do, they just aren't going to touch it until they can verify it won't break every project out there
mighty carbon
@full junco I didn't say I like it, I simply posted links
granite jacinth
Although, it is going to have to freaking happen
tired tree
?
they literally got no reproductions on the blueprint bug for a year and a half
it took dozens of developers submitting logs to track down
noble crater
I would pay $200 for a marketplace plugin that makes all the debug functions work in VR
granite jacinth
?
Pay me 200 right now to show you how to do it yourself?
What are you talking about exactly @noble crater
noble crater
DrawDebugString
but I have generally had problems with debug functions in VR - although some got fixed in 4.18
granite jacinth
Hm, never used that one before
noble crater
DrawDebugString is in the wrong place, I think the canvas projection is wrong
granite jacinth
What's it for? Sounds fishy... draws strings instead of lines?
sturdy coral
noble crater
I want to display stats about all my RuntimeMeshComponents
sturdy coral
that uses lots of debug strings
noble crater
vertex count, section count etc
sturdy coral
at least int he example image
granite jacinth
Ahhhhhhhh
tired tree
its in the normal upper left, they don't adjust the debug drawing, they specifically went in to the graphs and offset in VR now
tired tree
you are free to draw debug info to a texture and render to a plane
granite jacinth
I use text renders in game
full junco
@tired tree I wrote a comment on that thread describing how much I dislike it... could you comment and agree with me please? ๐ https://forums.unrealengine.com/unreal-engine/announcements-and-releases/1410408-unreal-engine-bug-submission-form
noble crater
@tired tree drawing text into textures and positioning it in screenspace sounds like a lot of work? I've used TextRender but not sure how it works or how to send/position lots of small bits of text into one texture
tired tree
I like dedicated bug reports, just wish it still had public access / communication forums besides seeing it on the bug tracker when accepted.
def feels like a step backwards
sturdy coral
plus not being able to say "hey this isn't actually a fix"
tired tree
@noble crater Not really, drawing to texture is pretty easy and you can apply that texture to any plane, or send to a Stereo Layer Component
full junco
@sturdy coral yeah please also comment there and tell epic about how bad it is...
tired tree
its FAR more visible
also i kind of liked how people that were waiting for a fix would bump answerhub bug reports multiple times requiring them to close the issue again
the debug draw ghosting in VR I submitted got bumped 8 times before they finally comitted the fix
two entire engine versions with it listed as "accepted"
full junco
yeah please lets make epic see how bad it is...
they need enough negative feedback I guess
granite jacinth
nah
You guys...need to calm down
And think please
You're going in there with pitchforks
But AH was NOT the best place for Bug Reporting
It was the ONLY place
tired tree
github was the best place
sturdy coral
I don't care if it is answerhub or not, I just don't want it to be fire and forget
tired tree
I would be better with this if answerhub wasn't going to be ENTIRELY IGNORED from here on out for bug reports
granite jacinth
I can agree with y'all on the fire and forget
tired tree
as they have pretty much stated
granite jacinth
But let's be real here
Most Bug Reporting is the same
Even Crash Report does it
And no ones complains about it
But shit gets fixed from Crash Reporter all the time
full junco
the AH was a great place for bug reports, because it enabled collaboration from many people on bug reports
granite jacinth
a lot of shit
The fact we could use AH was nice, actually surprised they didn't have it on forums also
wicked oak
crash reporter brings really good data
granite jacinth
(they might have in beta, can't rem)
wicked oak
literally tells you the line where you nullpointer-d
sturdy coral
what if someone already has a fix for your bug in a pull request?
sturdy coral
it used to get mentioned on answerhub and you would have a fix
tired tree
victor...we are specifically talking about hard problems that can't be defined by one, or the original finder
granite jacinth
๐
tired tree
there is no outlet for working it out enough to provide a detailed breakdown to epic anymore
granite jacinth
I'm not saying you all don't have really good points here
I am just being the devil's advocate and looking at it with fresh eyes
tired tree
considering that no-one here was literally freaking out, doubt that role is really required
the concept is good, throwing out what worked from the current system at the same time without a replacement is bad
full junco
@sturdy coral @tired tree you both made great points here, so please also mention all of those on the forums...
tired tree
nah, should submit a bug report with "multi user debugging no longer works - REGRESSION"
full junco
hah
this is actually just epic further splitting the community between those on UDN and those that aren't there
full junco
bug reports on answerhub were UDN-lite. and now they killed that
full junco
they were
granite jacinth
Bug report on AH were scrub level shit
full junco
answerhub is the same software like UDN
granite jacinth
You'd even be lucky to get any looks
Aye, but they have no choice but to respond to you
full junco
can't you just be quiet about this or please join the shitstorm? thanks ๐
granite jacinth
This way...the bug report team has no choice but to LOOK at all of them in the queue
They are probably even told how many they need to get through in a day
quota bitches
Not enough by the end of the week, dump
Which is actually bad ๐
They might trash can more in that case.
So let's hope no quota
full junco
on the answerhub epic also guaranteed you to look at your bug report
granite jacinth
...
full junco
it was UDN-lite
granite jacinth
No...they didn't
full junco
just with more time
granite jacinth
wtf dude
You can clearly read it
on AH
Community-led
(but yeah, before it said something a bit different)
full junco
epic said something like "if we haven't responded to your bug report on the AH within 3 days, please bump it" etc
the other sections are community led
bug reports were not
granite jacinth
well sort of true
But you are still wrong that every report was looked at
I mean, I know from experience
full junco
yeah, blame epic for that
ow they dont even claim to guarantee you to answer your bug report
mighty carbon
they should have just used good ol' Bugzilla ๐
full junco
no, the AH was great
granite jacinth
nah
full junco
web based is way better than integrated anywhere
granite jacinth
I don't get how you really thought it was so good
mighty carbon
next thing is to close-source engine
full junco
because I reported hundreds of bugs and got an answer from epic on every single one? @granite jacinth
you clearly didnt report enough critical bugs
mighty carbon
and when TimS leaves, you know Epic is in trouble
full junco
yeah, direction epic is going is bad
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mighty carbon
yeah
wicked oak
@mighty carbon its done
but we are getting sent into Gallery unless something happens
wich is weird, becouse its passed all tech review with flying colors
it has super good graphics and 100% perfect performance
and the android version has very good reviews
this game
i made sure to make it work on cardboard and daydream too, this version was made by myself
reviews are very good for the people where the game actually runs
lots of people install it on shitty phones and complain it doesnt work
as its a very high end game tested on high end phones
mighty carbon
the app can get out of Gallery if it becomes popular in the Oculus Home
wicked oak
good luck tho, no one buys gallery games
mighty carbon
other than that you have to be a big name or be sponsored by Oculus to land into the store .. That's what I gathered
wicked oak
Norman3d team was sent into gallery
and their game had god tier tech and graphics, and it was sponsored by oculus
full junco
@tired tree will you comment in that thread?
wicked oak
still gallery-d
not getting thrown into gallry is weird...
like, we dont know the requirements, and even top tier bug free games get thrown there
mighty carbon
then I don't know :/
that's why I like desktop VR more - I can release outside any store
full junco
@granite jacinth and you should comment there and tell them you want UDN-lite...
wicked oak
its easy, just get a full license ๐
to be fair, udn lite paid...
like, with those 20 dollar license
granite jacinth
@full junco they know I want it